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Geo
04-26-2008, 08:46 AM
The 2008 Draft is finally here!

It's Draft weekend, and best of luck to the Miami Dolphins in finding good players to help the team for the future.

Discuss the event here.

Joeyjr09
04-26-2008, 11:09 AM
I'm dying to get any news on a Jason Taylor trade and get us more picks. We really need to stockpile after dealing that 4th to Dallas for Fasano and Ayodele, which btw was a hell of a steal for us. But I'm hoping we can land around 10 players in this draft which means we need a couple more picks.

BigBlueCrew56
04-26-2008, 11:19 AM
I'm dying to get any news on a Jason Taylor trade and get us more picks. We really need to stockpile after dealing that 4th to Dallas for Fasano and Ayodele, which btw was a hell of a steal for us. But I'm hoping we can land around 10 players in this draft which means we need a couple more picks.

That was a heck of a steal for us Joey still cant beleive it.

BigBlueCrew56
04-26-2008, 11:19 AM
I'm dying to get any news on a Jason Taylor trade and get us more picks. We really need to stockpile after dealing that 4th to Dallas for Fasano and Ayodele, which btw was a hell of a steal for us. But I'm hoping we can land around 10 players in this draft which means we need a couple more picks.

I got butterfly's right now. I think I am going to do a shot of some ice cold Jaeger and chase it down with some delicious heneiken light mmmmmm

Joeyjr09
04-26-2008, 01:36 PM
I got butterfly's right now. I think I am going to do a shot of some ice cold Jaeger and chase it down with some delicious heneiken light mmmmmm

big fat no on the jaeger. Much rather some tequila or rum. I'm so pumped. After months of us arguing the draft brings us all together like little kids. I love being a dolphin.

Quagmire
04-26-2008, 02:08 PM
I'm dying to get any news on a Jason Taylor trade and get us more picks. We really need to stockpile after dealing that 4th to Dallas for Fasano and Ayodele, which btw was a hell of a steal for us. But I'm hoping we can land around 10 players in this draft which means we need a couple more picks.

Steal? Come on now. We gave up a high 4th rd pick for a 6th yr player at LB and a solid TE prospect. They better have plans to get more picks. They go an awful long time w/out any picks. I still think it was an OK trade, but far from a steal. I think if Mueller made the deal, people would not be so quick to call it a steal......

draftguru151
04-26-2008, 05:56 PM
Merling was a bit of a shocker but I like it.

Also apparently we traded Lorenzo Booker for a 4th to Philly.

Joeyjr09
04-26-2008, 07:08 PM
Steal? Come on now. We gave up a high 4th rd pick for a 6th yr player at LB and a solid TE prospect. They better have plans to get more picks. They go an awful long time w/out any picks. I still think it was an OK trade, but far from a steal. I think if Mueller made the deal, people would not be so quick to call it a steal......

Really like the Merling pick. I was thinking Groves or Henne but in the back of my mind I knew he'd be a steal for our 3-4.

Basically we swapped Booker and a couple spots in the draft for Fasano and Ayodele. Looks like even more of a steal as Booker is wasn't gonna see the field with his lack of size that the trifecta hates.

We missed on Groves but Henne is falling to our pick.

BigBlueCrew56
04-26-2008, 07:24 PM
Finally sobering up and getting ready for the Dolphins 2nd pick in the second round. Was surprised by Philip Merling but he was a 1st round graded talent and has the size to play the very important end position in the 3-4. I think this signals the end of Vonnie Holliday as I see him as a vet cap cut. Merling will start from day one with Starks and Roth battling for the other side. Typical Parcells pick as he is building the lines up. Very good picks and now see if Henne goes right after Brohm here.

BigBlueCrew56
04-26-2008, 07:34 PM
HAHAHAHAHA I told you Joey we where drafting all Michigan Wolverines well maybe not Mario "Weed Man" Manningham.



OT Jake Long Michigan
DE Philip Merling Clemson
QB Chad Henne Michigan

= A+++++++++++++ First Day!

Joeyjr09
04-26-2008, 08:07 PM
HAHAHAHAHA I told you Joey we where drafting all Michigan Wolverines well maybe not Mario "Weed Man" Manningham.



OT Jake Long Michigan
DE Philip Merling Clemson
QB Chad Henne Michigan

= A+++++++++++++ First Day!


Why are you throwing my name out there? I was always ok with Henne as a pick for us. I was actually cheering he would drop to our pick at 57 overall because I think getting him at 57 overall is a much better value and much better for us in the long run then doing what Atlanta and Baltimore did reaching for QBs in round 1. I love Flacco but realistically, I don't think there's much difference between any of the top 4 QBs in this draft.


Great 1st day. Lots of value on the board for us still tomorrow. I'd like to see a trade down and get a 5th and look at Justin King with that 3rd rounder, and a LB (Avril, Gooden, Henderson?) in round 4 as all these guys are slipping big time.

draftguru151
04-26-2008, 08:28 PM
I really like what we did first day. Crazy draft on a whole but we came out with some good guys to build with. I'm looking at Avril with the first pick tomorrow, Godfrey, Anthony Collins, Earl Bennett or Pat Sims would make me happy there as well.

BigBlueCrew56
04-26-2008, 08:34 PM
Why are you throwing my name out there? I was always ok with Henne as a pick for us. I was actually cheering he would drop to our pick at 57 overall because I think getting him at 57 overall is a much better value and much better for us in the long run then doing what Atlanta and Baltimore did reaching for QBs in round 1. I love Flacco but realistically, I don't think there's much difference between any of the top 4 QBs in this draft.


Great 1st day. Lots of value on the board for us still tomorrow. I'd like to see a trade down and get a 5th and look at Justin King with that 3rd rounder, and a LB (Avril, Gooden, Henderson?) in round 4 as all these guys are slipping big time.



Cliff Avril will be a very sexy pick at #64. It looks like Parcells and Co. like veteran MLB's in there 3-4 defense hence the aquisition of Akin Ayodele so it looks like they will pass on Dan Connor or Erin Henderson. It looks like the MLB rotation is going to be Ayodole-Crowder with Torbor filling in. Getting a 3-4 OLB to me seems like a priority going into the third round. Wouldnt mind if we traded down and grab another 4th or 5th.

Joeyjr09
04-26-2008, 08:43 PM
I really like what we did first day. Crazy draft on a whole but we came out with some good guys to build with. I'm looking at Avril with the first pick tomorrow, Godfrey, Anthony Collins, Earl Bennett or Pat Sims would make me happy there as well.

I thought about Avril but I don't think we need to take him right away as I don't think there's an immediate threat to take him from us other then NE and I'm not sure they are gonna be looking at him there as they need more help at DB then OLB with Thomas kicking outside due to the Mayo pick.

If we are looking at Avril, then we are in prime position to deal down a few spots and still get him while getting a later pick. If we are targeting Godfrey or King then we might have to stay put to grab them.

Collins would be a fine addition as well.

Not sure I would target Pat Sims as he is the same as Randy Starks and would give us a huge glut at DE with Merling, Roth, Starks, Holliday and Wright. We can wait another year to see how Roth and Wright progress and in Starks works out at that spot before investing more in it. If we decide we need another 3-4 DE, I'd rather wait for Kendal Langford a little later.

I really think we need to look at getting a LB early tomorrow with alot of value being there and we have to look at OG with alot of value being on the board there as well.

Red Bryant, Frank Okam and Ahytba Rubin are all on the board as well.

Quagmire
04-26-2008, 08:46 PM
Really like the Merling pick. I was thinking Groves or Henne but in the back of my mind I knew he'd be a steal for our 3-4.

Basically we swapped Booker and a couple spots in the draft for Fasano and Ayodele. Looks like even more of a steal as Booker is wasn't gonna see the field with his lack of size that the trifecta hates.

We missed on Groves but Henne is falling to our pick.

Well, I almost starting throwing stuff when Jax basically screwed us for the 2nd time today by trading up for Groves. Henne was my 2nd favorite QB in this draft and I basically was calling for him if they chose to go QB. I have to admit though that I was hoping they were going to ignore QB because they liked Beck. Apparently, they don't like him too much because they chose to use yet another 2nd rd pick on a QB.

I like the first day, but I have to admit that I am disgusted that Taylor was not traded for a first day pick. I have to believe that there were teams in round 2 willing to make a deal for him. If they could have traded him for the TB pick that eventually turned into Groves, then it should have been done.

Still don't like the Booker trade. Tuna had Meggett in NY and while Booker is not as muscular and powerful, he still had the shiftiness and big play ability that this offense needed. To trade him for a 4 is disappointing.

Love the Merling pick. Think he has top 10-15 ability and with a little seasoning could be a Seymour-type 3-4 DE.

All in all, I guess I am happy but not trading Taylor and not having too many extra picks in the next 2 rounds is a bit disappointing. Maybe they start day 2 with a way to accomplish that.

If they keep the pick, I think Dan Connor, Pat Sims, Tyvon Branch and yes, Mario Manningham are possibilities. My preference would be for the WR, although his stock seems to be dropping big time and maybe they can pick him up later......

By the way Joe, looks like you won the bet. When I saw Carolina trade up, I was certain it was for a QB and I think it would have changed things for my prediction........ I admit it, I was wrong on that one.......

Joeyjr09
04-26-2008, 09:12 PM
Well, I almost starting throwing stuff when Jax basically screwed us for the 2nd time today by trading up for Groves. Henne was my 2nd favorite QB in this draft and I basically was calling for him if they chose to go QB. I have to admit though that I was hoping they were going to ignore QB because they liked Beck. Apparently, they don't like him too much because they chose to use yet another 2nd rd pick on a QB.

I like the first day, but I have to admit that I am disgusted that Taylor was not traded for a first day pick. I have to believe that there were teams in round 2 willing to make a deal for him. If they could have traded him for the TB pick that eventually turned into Groves, then it should have been done.

Still don't like the Booker trade. Tuna had Meggett in NY and while Booker is not as muscular and powerful, he still had the shiftiness and big play ability that this offense needed. To trade him for a 4 is disappointing.

Love the Merling pick. Think he has top 10-15 ability and with a little seasoning could be a Seymour-type 3-4 DE.

All in all, I guess I am happy but not trading Taylor and not having too many extra picks in the next 2 rounds is a bit disappointing. Maybe they start day 2 with a way to accomplish that.

If they keep the pick, I think Dan Connor, Pat Sims, Tyvon Branch and yes, Mario Manningham are possibilities. My preference would be for the WR, although his stock seems to be dropping big time and maybe they can pick him up later......

By the way Joe, looks like you won the bet. When I saw Carolina trade up, I was certain it was for a QB and I think it would have changed things for my prediction........ I admit it, I was wrong on that one.......

I'm pretty much in agreement with everything you said except a couple of things.

1.) I can't see us going after Mario Manningham. I think we have had this discussion before but he is too small. Look for William Franklin in round 4. That would be a more logical choice.

2.) I loved the Booker trade. Don't get me wrong, I love Booker as a player. He is exciting and adds punch to any offense. I watched him during my time at FSU. But he is not Meggett. Meggett for Parcells is the exception, not the rule. Booker likely was going to be a ST player and emergency player in case guys get hurt. He is not good in a ST role. Despite what Sparano said about him I just knew he was not going to have a big role here. Getting a 4th rounder for him is a nice little deal for us.

If I were to tell you before the draft that we traded our 3rd string RB and swapped about 15 spots in Round 4 in order to get a 24 year old starting TE and 28 year old rotational ILB who both have plenty of experience in the system we run, I think you'd be thrilled. For some reason, you are real down on Fasano and Ayodele and real high on Booker, I can't figure out why. I understand Booker is flashy and more exciting but The guys we got are much better fits for our team and the system we want to play. The moves were the right ones to make and improve us a pretty decent amount considering they were minor deals.

4.) Carolina moving up didn't scare me so much because I knew they wanted a OT and Otah was really the last elite OT left. I pretty much knew that was their target when the deal was made. What scared me was the Jets dealing up to 30. I think they could have stayed put and landed Keller so I didn't understand the trade but when I saw them jump, I thought for sure they were leapfrogging us for Henne.

Quagmire
04-26-2008, 09:31 PM
I'm pretty much in agreement with everything you said except a couple of things.

1.) I can't see us going after Mario Manningham. I think we have had this discussion before but he is too small. Look for William Franklin in round 4. That would be a more logical choice.

2.) I loved the Booker trade. Don't get me wrong, I love Booker as a player. He is exciting and adds punch to any offense. I watched him during my time at FSU. But he is not Meggett. Meggett for Parcells is the exception, not the rule. Booker likely was going to be a ST player and emergency player in case guys get hurt. He is not good in a ST role. Despite what Sparano said about him I just knew he was not going to have a big role here. Getting a 4th rounder for him is a nice little deal for us.

If I were to tell you before the draft that we traded our 3rd string RB and swapped about 15 spots in Round 4 in order to get a 24 year old starting TE and 28 year old rotational ILB who both have plenty of experience in the system we run, I think you'd be thrilled. For some reason, you are real down on Fasano and Ayodele and real high on Booker, I can't figure out why. I understand Booker is flashy and more exciting but The guys we got are much better fits for our team and the system we want to play. The moves were the right ones to make and improve us a pretty decent amount considering they were minor deals.

4.) Carolina moving up didn't scare me so much because I knew they wanted a OT and Otah was really the last elite OT left. I pretty much knew that was their target when the deal was made. What scared me was the Jets dealing up to 30. I think they could have stayed put and landed Keller so I didn't understand the trade but when I saw them jump, I thought for sure they were leapfrogging us for Henne.

I still think Manningham is a possibility, though I think it is doubtful they take him to start the day tomorrow. Maybe in a trade down.

I guess if you put it as trading Booker for Fasano, it does not sound that bad. I still think acquiring a LB in his 6th or 7th yr in the league does not help in the long run.

I am still really pissed that Taylor has not been traded. We literally could have landed Groves with Tampa's pick. Imagine getting Groves along with the 3 players we actually did land......

Joeyjr09
04-26-2008, 09:56 PM
I still think Manningham is a possibility, though I think it is doubtful they take him to start the day tomorrow. Maybe in a trade down.

I guess if you put it as trading Booker for Fasano, it does not sound that bad. I still think acquiring a LB in his 6th or 7th yr in the league does not help in the long run.

I am still really pissed that Taylor has not been traded. We literally could have landed Groves with Tampa's pick. Imagine getting Groves along with the 3 players we actually did land......

Skolnick, who is one of the better Dolphin writers IMO, has some interesting stuff to say that's he's been hearing.

-Of course with the Michigan heavy draft, he addressed Mario Manningham. Says there are mixed feelings on him. Says not to expect him on the Dolphins since the Dolphins staff seems to come to a consensus on players before drafting them and they are split on Manningham due to character concerns. Kiss of death for him IMO. Don't expect him here.

-Despite Ireland saying there were no calls about JT, he believes that there has been talks and that there was something to the Bucs rumors that went around. He's speculating a little bit but he says don't expect this to be the end of the JT talk. We had a deal in place for with the Bucs but Jacksonville ended up with the pick. He says that there's rumblings Jacksonville jumped up to take Groves knowing that was our target and that they are holding him hostage trying to force our hand trading JT to them for a more reasonable price then what we were asking from them. They are ok keeping Groves if a deal can't be reach but supposedly they are trying to use him as leverage to get us to deal JT to them. Smart play on their part and I still think we should jump on it if we can get Groves and a 5th.

Good stuff from Slonick.

My thoughts now:

Ayodele does not help in the long run but he is huge help for now. He has knowledge in the system we run and with a bunch of new guys in Torbor, Anderson, and even Crowder who hasn't spent much time in a ILB role, Ayodele will be a huge help in the development of these players over the next 2 years so it's definately worth a pretty modest price we paid. It certainly can't hurt to have him around for a couple years as we have too many holes to address everything in just 1 offseason.

I have my draft board stacked, some huge reaches today and real steals as well. But here's the best at each spot left on my draft board:

QB- Andre Woodson, Kentucky
FB- Owen Schmitt, West Virginia
RB- Jamaal Charles, Texas
WR- Mario Manningham, Michigan
C- Steve Justice, Wake Forest
TE- Brad Cottam, Tennessee
OT- Anthony Collins, Kansas
OG- Roy Schuening, Oregon State
DE- Kendall Langford, Hampton
DT- Dre Moore, Maryland
MLB- Dan Connor, Penn State
OLB- Erin Henderson, Maryland/Cliff Avril, Purdue (Have them pretty even)
CB- Justin King, Penn State
S- Reggie Smith, Oklahoma

Obviously not all Dolphin targets but some pretty good talent left for us to pluck.

SINCE1978
04-26-2008, 11:32 PM
is allen bailey a swamp monster?

jk ... lions fan here (save the wr jokes) checking in to see who ya'll are chatting about early tomorrow?! You guys rocked today with Merling then Henne. Ann Arbor is home so love the Mich picks, Super Mario is not a character threat, he's a cool cat actually. A little young and inmature but if you took him with long & henne already in place, he would be fine and a steal.

We would like connor in the D, so tell tuna no connor for the fins ... ha ... lol.

out

toonsterwu
04-27-2008, 02:28 AM
Parcells won't like it, but at the end of the day, I think he settles for a 3rd rounder and a future for Jason Taylor. If he can get this done before the draft starts tomorrow, he might nab Cliff Avril to start the 3rd.

Joeyjr09
04-27-2008, 08:44 AM
Parcells won't like it, but at the end of the day, I think he settles for a 3rd rounder and a future for Jason Taylor. If he can get this done before the draft starts tomorrow, he might nab Cliff Avril to start the 3rd.

I don't see him going anywhere at this point. It'll be done at the trade deadline.

Quagmire
04-27-2008, 08:52 AM
Skolnick, who is one of the better Dolphin writers IMO, has some interesting stuff to say that's he's been hearing.

-Of course with the Michigan heavy draft, he addressed Mario Manningham. Says there are mixed feelings on him. Says not to expect him on the Dolphins since the Dolphins staff seems to come to a consensus on players before drafting them and they are split on Manningham due to character concerns. Kiss of death for him IMO. Don't expect him here.

-Despite Ireland saying there were no calls about JT, he believes that there has been talks and that there was something to the Bucs rumors that went around. He's speculating a little bit but he says don't expect this to be the end of the JT talk. We had a deal in place for with the Bucs but Jacksonville ended up with the pick. He says that there's rumblings Jacksonville jumped up to take Groves knowing that was our target and that they are holding him hostage trying to force our hand trading JT to them for a more reasonable price then what we were asking from them. They are ok keeping Groves if a deal can't be reach but supposedly they are trying to use him as leverage to get us to deal JT to them. Smart play on their part and I still think we should jump on it if we can get Groves and a 5th.

Good stuff from Slonick.

My thoughts now:

Ayodele does not help in the long run but he is huge help for now. He has knowledge in the system we run and with a bunch of new guys in Torbor, Anderson, and even Crowder who hasn't spent much time in a ILB role, Ayodele will be a huge help in the development of these players over the next 2 years so it's definately worth a pretty modest price we paid. It certainly can't hurt to have him around for a couple years as we have too many holes to address everything in just 1 offseason.

I have my draft board stacked, some huge reaches today and real steals as well. But here's the best at each spot left on my draft board:

QB- Andre Woodson, Kentucky
FB- Owen Schmitt, West Virginia
RB- Jamaal Charles, Texas
WR- Mario Manningham, Michigan
C- Steve Justice, Wake Forest
TE- Brad Cottam, Tennessee
OT- Anthony Collins, Kansas
OG- Roy Schuening, Oregon State
DE- Kendall Langford, Hampton
DT- Dre Moore, Maryland
MLB- Dan Connor, Penn State
OLB- Erin Henderson, Maryland/Cliff Avril, Purdue (Have them pretty even)
CB- Justin King, Penn State
S- Reggie Smith, Oklahoma

Obviously not all Dolphin targets but some pretty good talent left for us to pluck.

Joe,

I just can't see the Groves thing happening. It would be a great deal, if they could make it happen, but I think that ship has sailed.

I really hope this pick (64) gets dealt for some add'l picks. Maybe even a mid rd pick next yr to start the process for next yr.

If they are legitimately talking to TB about Taylor and they can get a 4 and 6 this yr and a #2 next yr, they should do it right now. Gives us a little more depth this year and gets us an addl first day pick next yr. That would 3 yrs in a row with multiple 2nd rounders and that is how you build quality depth in this league....

Funny stat that I heard. This is now 4 yrs in a row Miami has used a 2nd rd pick on a qb. (Feeley, Culpepper, Beck, Henne). Lets hope this is the last time for a while that we see a QB picked that early.......

draftguru151
04-27-2008, 09:20 AM
We added a 6th with that pick and then took Langford. Really like that pick. Merling and Langford is gonna be nasty.

Joeyjr09
04-27-2008, 09:26 AM
I've been calling Langford to us for a long time. Thought we coulda dropped a little more and still got him but other then that, very solid pickup.

We are loaded at DE with Merling, Langford, Wright, Starks, Holliday and Roth.

You have to think they are shopping either Holliday who is getting older or Roth who is not a great fit in a 3-4. I'm gonna guess one of those guys is gone for picks later on.

Connor, King, Avril still on the board. Really hope we can pull a trade up for one of them.

BigBlueCrew56
04-27-2008, 09:46 AM
I've been calling Langford to us for a long time. Thought we coulda dropped a little more and still got him but other then that, very solid pickup.

We are loaded at DE with Merling, Langford, Wright, Starks, Holliday and Roth.

You have to think they are shopping either Holliday who is getting older or Roth who is not a great fit in a 3-4. I'm gonna guess one of those guys is gone for picks later on.

Connor, King, Avril still on the board. Really hope we can pull a trade up for one of them.



The writing is on the wall for Holliday to be a cap casualty. You did call out Langford Joey so much props on that one. Obviously Parcells saw a major weakness on the defensive line and now we added two studs in Merling and Langford to help fix that. Two "Pillars" of the defense HAHAHAHHA

Matt Roth should be traded to a 4-3 team for a 4th or 5th if possible. He has no place in the 3-4 defense at this point especially with the two young studs we just picked up.

draftguru151
04-27-2008, 10:02 AM
I'm not sure if Holliday for sure is gone. Merling and Langford aren't ready to start right away. Merling should see the field a lot but he still has to get healthy and put on some more weight before he is a full time 3-4 DE. And Longford is very raw. Both will contribute, but I still think Holliday and Starks start next season, at least at the beginning of the year.

Joeyjr09
04-27-2008, 10:05 AM
I'm not sure if Holliday for sure is gone. Merling and Langford aren't ready to start right away. Merling should see the field a lot but he still has to get healthy and put on some more weight before he is a full time 3-4 DE. And Longford is very raw. Both will contribute, but I still think Holliday and Starks start next season, at least at the beginning of the year.

Guts still tells me Matt Roth is getting dealt for a 4th. With Holliday and Starks starting and Merling 1st off the bench and Wright likely getting some snaps as well and not to mention Langford waiting in the wings. There's just not place for him and he's not a good fit as a 3-4 DE.

Joeyjr09
04-27-2008, 11:04 AM
I see a OL with this pick. Carl Nicks would be nice, as would Roy Schuening or Anthony Collins.

Joeyjr09
04-27-2008, 11:24 AM
Well we did go OL but not any of the ones I was looking at. I guess I could live with Shawn Murphy as the pick tho. He's definately one of the biggest OGs in the draft at 320 LBS so he fits the system perfectly. Gotta be our starting LG this coming year I'm guessing.

draftguru151
04-27-2008, 11:27 AM
Yea Toon thinks he can start at LG next season. Would have preferred some other guys but I'm not gonna doubt this pick. Odd we traded up for him though.

Joeyjr09
04-27-2008, 11:42 AM
Yea Toon thinks he can start at LG next season. Would have preferred some other guys but I'm not gonna doubt this pick. Odd we traded up for him though.

Yea I was reading his profile and stuff. Sounds like a typical Parcells OG. Really like what he brings. Only thing is he's 25. I absolutely hate drafting old prospects. NFL lifespans are short enough, we don't need to draft guys that are already starting out with a short one. He should be a solid OG for the next 7 or so years however if he works out the way they want so I can't complain with that.

We only gave up a 7th. I'm sure we'll find a way to get that pick back. Lots of talent still on the board with Henderson and Robertson at LB, Bryant, Rubin, and Okam at NT (We need to get one of those guys). Tons of OL. Plus there's some pretty good CBs in Trae Williams, Scandrick, Jack Williams and DeJuan Tribble. Not to mention some pretty solid DS on the board still as well.

We need to try to get another pick before round 6 to try to get one of these guys before they go off the board.

Joeyjr09
04-27-2008, 02:40 PM
Really like the Parmele pick. Ricky is still a question mark and Ronnie might not be 100 percent this season. Parmele has alot of upside, great size and is a workhorse type back. This kid screams Marion Barber to me. He might never reach that Pro Bowl level but he is a nice insurance piece and could grow into a good short yardage, goal line and 3rd down back. He was one of my favorite sleepers in the draft.

draftguru151
04-27-2008, 03:29 PM
Like the Donald Thomas pick. Kinda has a small lower body but he's got some potential. Parmele is a good pick too, but guy and ran pretty well.

Joeyjr09
04-27-2008, 03:59 PM
Have to say, this draft has hit a homerun.

We got 3 OL and 2 DL which we definately needed. Huge for us as we were desperate to build up the trenches.

Also love landing our QB of the future where we did.

Parmele and Hillard seem like a solid late round HB/FB combo. Guess Mauia is gonna be cut. Still I really like Parmele and Hillard sounds like he is ideal as the type of FB we are looking for in our roster.

I was looking for a late round WR and LB but I guess they feel they are ok there until next year's draft. A little more offense heavy then I thought and more small schools guys then I'd like but overall it was an extremely solid draft with alot of hits in the trenches. Much needed, this should help us a ton.

draftguru151
04-27-2008, 05:24 PM
Definitely a great draft. Built up the trenches and got a QB. Dotson was a nice pick late. Don't really think the Hilliard pick means Mauia is gone, I think Hilliard not making the team is more likely.

Joeyjr09
04-27-2008, 05:33 PM
Definitely a great draft. Built up the trenches and got a QB. Dotson was a nice pick late. Don't really think the Hilliard pick means Mauia is gone, I think Hilliard not making the team is more likely.

Remember Mauia wasn't even on the draft database for Scott or NFL.com last year. After he was taken, rumors were that us and SD were the onyl real teams that even considered him a legit prospect. I thought he held his own last season but he just got arrestted, we just wasted a draft pick on a new FB that looks to be much better as a fit for the offense we will be running. It just looks like the writing is on the wall for Hillard to make the team and Mauia to be out the door.

I also like the Dotson pick. 3 DEs in this draft. That's huge. Our DL is one young NT away from being pretty well stocked with young talent to build our team around. Have to love that. Also with Merling, Langford, definately holding down spots and Dotson also likely to make the PS at the very least. We now have a glut at that spot. We need to keep Holliday to show these kids the ropes but one of Roth or Wright looks to be out the door and judging on last year's play, the contract size and the trade value. Roth I'm guessing will be dealt for a picks in next year's draft.

We need to make Marcus Monk, Erin Henderson and Darrell Robertson our priority UDFAs.

Love how we stocked the trenches and built our future for the running game and QB as well.

We are sitting pretty go go heavily at LB, WR and DB next season and compliment that with some more OL and DL as we need to draft at those spots every year.

EDIT: As soon as I post this, the Bears take Monk. Figures.

thebow305
04-27-2008, 07:35 PM
I'm ok with the Murphy pick, but wouldn't Schuening have been a better value and isn't he a better player anyway? I know the regime liked this guy but I feel like they missed on some serious value at that pick when there were so many better players left on the board. And why did they feel they had to move up 5 spots? Was he really a threat to go within those 5 picks?

Oh well, a very unspectacular draft, but one that will help build the foundation of our team and will go a long way toward shoring up our offensive and defensive lines completely. Something we needed for sure. Our Lines are set for the future now for sure.

One thing I didn't understand AT ALL, was the complete diregard for arguably the weakest position on our team, Cornerback. We didn't draft ONE player in the secondary. I didn't like that all. Hopefully we can bring in some UDFA to compete like local Glenn Sharpe maybe.

A little disappointed we didn't draft any Wr's either. I thought we said we were looking for a true #1, it seems odd that they stared Arrington, Urrutia, and Monk right in the face in the 7th and chose to go RB twice and draft ANOTHER 3-4 DE when we already had Langford, Merling, Wright, Roth, Starks, & Holliday. Oh well, we will see that happens with the free agents now.

I give our first draft under the Tuna a B- for what it's worth.

Joeyjr09
04-27-2008, 08:27 PM
I'm ok with the Murphy pick, but wouldn't Schuening have been a better value and isn't he a better player anyway? I know the regime liked this guy but I feel like they missed on some serious value at that pick when there were so many better players left on the board. And why did they feel they had to move up 5 spots? Was he really a threat to go within those 5 picks?

Oh well, a very unspectacular draft, but one that will help build the foundation of our team and will go a long way toward shoring up our offensive and defensive lines completely. Something we needed for sure. Our Lines are set for the future now for sure.

One thing I didn't understand AT ALL, was the complete diregard for arguably the weakest position on our team, Cornerback. We didn't draft ONE player in the secondary. I didn't like that all. Hopefully we can bring in some UDFA to compete like local Glenn Sharpe maybe.

A little disappointed we didn't draft any Wr's either. I thought we said we were looking for a true #1, it seems odd that they stared Arrington, Urrutia, and Monk right in the face in the 7th and chose to go RB twice and draft ANOTHER 3-4 DE when we already had Langford, Merling, Wright, Roth, Starks, & Holliday. Oh well, we will see that happens with the free agents now.

I give our first draft under the Tuna a B- for what it's worth.


I unblocked you so I could see your reaction on Gholston going to the Jets, lol.

Anyways, what exactly were you expecting out of this draft? I was not expecting any WRs or CBs unless they were late round fliers and quite frankly, outside of Monk, there was really no WR or CB that even got me remotely interested late in the draft.

We did exactly we I thought we would do. We got a meat and potatoes draft. We built up the lines. I've been saying for a long time that this line was going to be heavy on the front 7 and the OL with maybe a QB of the future and a late round developmental WR or CB mixed in. That's exactly what we got. We drafted 3 OL, 3 DL, our QB of the future, and a couple of late round developmental guys (at RB and FB instead of WR and CB). The draft went pretty much exactly how I thought it would go.

Absolutely nothing to be upset about and we did very well, this is exactly what we needed to build our team through and will benefit us greatly in the long run. We got great value at the spot where we picked Merling, Henne, Donald Thomas and Jalen Parmele. Those guys were awesome value picks and should have gone much higher IMO. Long, Hillard and Murphy went right around where they were projected to go. There was no real bad reach with any of our picks that I could see. We might have left a little better talent on the board when we picked Murphy but our FO obviously felt strongly about him because they traded up to make sure we got him and I love that. If you feel strongly about a guy, go get him.

Our brass obviously felt good about all the guys they got because they had some of these guys targetted for a long, long time. You read all about the meeting with Merling. In the thread where I updated the players we met with, you'll see Langford, Dotson and everyone knew we loved Henne. The staff got the guys they really wanted and made it happen.

Overall it was a great draft, I couldn't be happier. A+

Next year we can target WR, CB and LB but this year I got pretty much exactly what I wanted and exactly what I was expecting. And with all the new 3-4 DE's we have some guys we can shop there plus Taylor as well so there's definately ammo to make some moves and get picks in next year's draft.

thebow305
04-27-2008, 09:01 PM
I unblocked you so I could see your reaction on Gholston going to the Jets, lol.

Anyways, what exactly were you expecting out of this draft? I was not expecting any WRs or CBs unless they were late round fliers and quite frankly, outside of Monk, there was really no WR or CB that even got me remotely interested late in the draft.

We did exactly we I thought we would do. We got a meat and potatoes draft. We built up the lines. I've been saying for a long time that this line was going to be heavy on the front 7 and the OL with maybe a QB of the future and a late round developmental WR or CB mixed in. That's exactly what we got. We drafted 3 OL, 3 DL, our QB of the future, and a couple of late round developmental guys (at RB and FB instead of WR and CB). The draft went pretty much exactly how I thought it would go.

Absolutely nothing to be upset about and we did very well, this is exactly what we needed to build our team through and will benefit us greatly in the long run. We got great value at the spot where we picked Merling, Henne, Donald Thomas and Jalen Parmele. Those guys were awesome value picks and should have gone much higher IMO. Long, Hillard and Murphy went right around where they were projected to go. There was no real bad reach with any of our picks that I could see. We might have left a little better talent on the board when we picked Murphy but our FO obviously felt strongly about him because they traded up to make sure we got him and I love that. If you feel strongly about a guy, go get him.

Our brass obviously felt good about all the guys they got because they had some of these guys targetted for a long, long time. You read all about the meeting with Merling. In the thread where I updated the players we met with, you'll see Langford, Dotson and everyone knew we loved Henne. The staff got the guys they really wanted and made it happen.

Overall it was a great draft, I couldn't be happier. A+

Next year we can target WR, CB and LB but this year I got pretty much exactly what I wanted and exactly what I was expecting. And with all the new 3-4 DE's we have some guys we can shop there plus Taylor as well so there's definately ammo to make some moves and get picks in next year's draft.

I guess when you look at it like that it seems to be a pretty great draft. I really wanted either Monk or Urrutia in the 7th and it would have been a GREAT draft for me. It wasn't the most exciting draft, but it was a neccessary one. I know why they chose who they did for the msot part and when it coems down to it, i trust Parcells and Ireland. If they think this is what needed to be done then I am all for it.

The only pick I was really excited for this year was Merling. Definitely a contender to be the steal of this draft. Once thought to go as high as the Bengals at #9, we got TREMENDOUS value at #32. I would been happy with either Groves or Merling there. I wish I had known we would go Langford in the 3rd because I would have been going hardcore for Groves in that case, but it's all good. We still have JT, Porter, Moses, & Torbor as our Big time pass rushers for next year and now we have a VERY talented front seven for the future and an offensive line that wil be in place and the foundation of our offense for the next 10 years or so IMO. Whether is be Thomas, Mormino, or Murphy, I believe we found our LG, which leaves us with our starting OL for the next 10 or so years:

LT: Jake Long
LG: Shawn Murphy (where my money's at!)
C: Samson Satele
RG: Justin Smiley
RT: Vernon Carey

I'm excited about solidifying our line for sure. This is what has me most excited about coming out of the draft today, as well as the Defensive Line (although I think the NT spot is a bit cloudy still as far as the future is concerned.)

BTW, I am on the Malcolm Jenkins and Brian Cushing trains early for next year!

Oh, and seeing Gholston hold up that Jets jersey made me absolutely sick to my stomach. One good thing about it that he didn't go to the Pats. When it came down to it, I knew he would end up in either NY or NE and I'd much rather see him with those Loser Jets.

Here's to watching Big Jake put Gholston in the ground for the next 10+ years!! :D

Joeyjr09
04-27-2008, 10:18 PM
We still need to see how the young guys step up at OL and DE but we definately upgraded the talent and youth of the trenches big time. If everything goes well with the guys we brought in at those spots (Long, Smiley, Murphy, Thomas at OT. Starks, Merling, Langford, Dotson at DE) then we will really only be looking for a backup and insurance OT in round 3 or 4 next year and a NT hopefully in round 2.

We definately will be looking at OLB, CB next season.

Consider me jumping on Malcolm Jenkins (CB), Eric Moncur (OLB), and BJ Raji (NT) as of now as some of my favorite guys for us next year if things play out the way we want. We will likely still be picking in the 6-10 range.

draftguru151
04-27-2008, 10:38 PM
Yea my guy right now for next year is Malcolm Jenkins as well. Keeping an eye on Terrence Taylor as well (hopefully he doesn't turn out like the other Michigan DTs).

As for the late round guys sure there are guys I would have preferred, but it's late in the draft and it wasn't anything too awful. Absolutely loved the first 4 picks. Next season isn't gonna be that fun but the future is looking good.

thebow305
04-27-2008, 10:39 PM
We still need to see how the young guys step up at OL and DE but we definately upgraded the talent and youth of the trenches big time. If everything goes well with the guys we brought in at those spots (Long, Smiley, Murphy, Thomas at OT. Starks, Merling, Langford, Dotson at DE) then we will really only be looking for a backup and insurance OT in round 3 or 4 next year and a NT hopefully in round 2.

We definately will be looking at OLB, CB next season.

Consider me jumping on Malcolm Jenkins (CB), Eric Moncur (OLB), and BJ Raji (NT) as of now as some of my favorite guys for us next year if things play out the way we want. We will likely still be picking in the 6-10 range.

Yeah, I am a big fan of Raji too. Hopefully he can heal up from that injury. His teammate Ron Brace seems to be a nice NT prospect for next year as well. In fact, they might be the top two NT prospects for the '09 draft. What a talented BC interior line!

For CB, Malcolm Jenkins is the obvious favorite. But I am a HUGE Macho Harris fan and would love to get him next year. I think he is twice the prospect Flowers was this year and look for him to have a big-time season at VT. One of my early favorites to challenge MJ for the top CB ranking next year. Some added return value as well. He was my favorite corner prospect this year as well before he pulled a 360 and decided to return back to VT for his Senior Year! :(

Moncur goes without being said. I am so excited to see him step out of Calais's shadow this year and dominate. I look for him to have a monster year and hopefully be considered one of the top Hybrids for next year's draft. I would love to have him in a Dolphins uniform if all goes well, that's for sure!

Quagmire
04-28-2008, 09:48 AM
I unblocked you so I could see your reaction on Gholston going to the Jets, lol.

Anyways, what exactly were you expecting out of this draft? I was not expecting any WRs or CBs unless they were late round fliers and quite frankly, outside of Monk, there was really no WR or CB that even got me remotely interested late in the draft.

We did exactly we I thought we would do. We got a meat and potatoes draft. We built up the lines. I've been saying for a long time that this line was going to be heavy on the front 7 and the OL with maybe a QB of the future and a late round developmental WR or CB mixed in. That's exactly what we got. We drafted 3 OL, 3 DL, our QB of the future, and a couple of late round developmental guys (at RB and FB instead of WR and CB). The draft went pretty much exactly how I thought it would go.

Absolutely nothing to be upset about and we did very well, this is exactly what we needed to build our team through and will benefit us greatly in the long run. We got great value at the spot where we picked Merling, Henne, Donald Thomas and Jalen Parmele. Those guys were awesome value picks and should have gone much higher IMO. Long, Hillard and Murphy went right around where they were projected to go. There was no real bad reach with any of our picks that I could see. We might have left a little better talent on the board when we picked Murphy but our FO obviously felt strongly about him because they traded up to make sure we got him and I love that. If you feel strongly about a guy, go get him.

Our brass obviously felt good about all the guys they got because they had some of these guys targetted for a long, long time. You read all about the meeting with Merling. In the thread where I updated the players we met with, you'll see Langford, Dotson and everyone knew we loved Henne. The staff got the guys they really wanted and made it happen.

Overall it was a great draft, I couldn't be happier. A+

Next year we can target WR, CB and LB but this year I got pretty much exactly what I wanted and exactly what I was expecting. And with all the new 3-4 DE's we have some guys we can shop there plus Taylor as well so there's definately ammo to make some moves and get picks in next year's draft.

Joe,

While I like the focus on the trenches, this is far from an A+ draft. There were a ton of good players that went off the board between the Murphy pick and the Parmele pick. Miami should have played the draft to make sure that they had a fifth round pick somehow. Tons of players went in that range that could really have helped us. To me, that goes back to the lack of Jason Taylor trade. I think they were a little too stubborn on that. I think that if they went back to Jax and asked for their #2 and one of their #5's this yr or one next yr, the deal would have gotten done and we would have Quentin Groves right now.

I also thought they took Langford a bit high and would have loved to see them drop a little more and add back the 5 that they did not have.

I thought the first day was an A-, but for me gets downgraded to a B- because of not trading JT. . Especially love the pick of Merling........

Day 2 was more of more a B-, C+ for me because I feel that they let the draft slip away some when there could have been more players added. I don't have a problems with the players picked too much. I think Murphy will be a player. I think they should have drafted Ahtyba Rubin in round 6 ahead of Parmele, but we will see how that turns out.

Basically, the reasons I do not grade it as high as you is that they did not get a WR and that they did not get the true 3-4 OLB/pass rusher. Those things could have been accomplished more easily with a JT trade to add picks...

Overall, I see a B- draft that could have been an A-, had they traded JT.

thebow305
04-28-2008, 11:41 AM
Joe,

While I like the focus on the trenches, this is far from an A+ draft. There were a ton of good players that went off the board between the Murphy pick and the Parmele pick. Miami should have played the draft to make sure that they had a fifth round pick somehow. Tons of players went in that range that could really have helped us. To me, that goes back to the lack of Jason Taylor trade. I think they were a little too stubborn on that. I think that if they went back to Jax and asked for their #2 and one of their #5's this yr or one next yr, the deal would have gotten done and we would have Quentin Groves right now.

I also thought they took Langford a bit high and would have loved to see them drop a little more and add back the 5 that they did not have.

I thought the first day was an A-, but for me gets downgraded to a B- because of not trading JT. . Especially love the pick of Merling........

Day 2 was more of more a B-, C+ for me because I feel that they let the draft slip away some when there could have been more players added. I don't have a problems with the players picked too much. I think Murphy will be a player. I think they should have drafted Ahtyba Rubin in round 6 ahead of Parmele, but we will see how that turns out.

Overall, I see a B- draft that could have been an A-, had they traded JT.

I agree about the Jax part as far as the 2nd and 5th goes, as well as Groves being a Dolphin in that case. I would have LOVED it if our first day had ended with Jake Long, Phillip Merling, Quentin Groves, and Chad Henne. Oh well.

Memorex
04-28-2008, 12:45 PM
Look at this freak QB that we got as an UDFA!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOfVreEXJM4

I'm guessing he will be trying out as a WR or KR seeing he is a whopping 5'9 165

Quagmire
04-28-2008, 01:31 PM
Look at this freak QB that we got as an UDFA!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOfVreEXJM4

I'm guessing he will be trying out as a WR or KR seeing he is a whopping 5'9 165

This guy has to make the team. Just looks like one of those pain in the butt players to defend. Very jittery and super quick. If you make him a kick returner, you can give Ginn a little break which should help him become a better WR. Wow, that was something to watch...

Joeyjr09
04-28-2008, 02:47 PM
Joe,

While I like the focus on the trenches, this is far from an A+ draft. There were a ton of good players that went off the board between the Murphy pick and the Parmele pick. Miami should have played the draft to make sure that they had a fifth round pick somehow. Tons of players went in that range that could really have helped us. To me, that goes back to the lack of Jason Taylor trade. I think they were a little too stubborn on that. I think that if they went back to Jax and asked for their #2 and one of their #5's this yr or one next yr, the deal would have gotten done and we would have Quentin Groves right now.

I also thought they took Langford a bit high and would have loved to see them drop a little more and add back the 5 that they did not have.

I thought the first day was an A-, but for me gets downgraded to a B- because of not trading JT. . Especially love the pick of Merling........

Day 2 was more of more a B-, C+ for me because I feel that they let the draft slip away some when there could have been more players added. I don't have a problems with the players picked too much. I think Murphy will be a player. I think they should have drafted Ahtyba Rubin in round 6 ahead of Parmele, but we will see how that turns out.

Basically, the reasons I do not grade it as high as you is that they did not get a WR and that they did not get the true 3-4 OLB/pass rusher. Those things could have been accomplished more easily with a JT trade to add picks...

Overall, I see a B- draft that could have been an A-, had they traded JT.


Dude, your evaluate a draft based on the players you got with the picks you had. Just because we didn't trade our best player for 2 extra picks you completely downgrade our entire draft? Let's get realistic here. We drafted 3 DEs. Having JT on the roster is not such a bad thing to help those guys grow as players.

I thought we needed to trade JT as well but saying we didn't have a great draft because we kept our best player is boarderline insane.

With the picks we had, we got exactly what we needed. I couldn't ask for more. I think you guys were hoping to address every single weak area we had as your all asking for NTs, CBs, and WRs. Those are needs but we had way too many holes to fill in 1 draft. Wouldn't have matter if we had 9 picks or 19 picks, there were too many holes to fill in 1 offseason. We spent our resources exactly were they needed to go. In the trenches and at QB.

Quagmire
04-28-2008, 03:15 PM
Dude, your evaluate a draft based on the players you got with the picks you had. Just because we didn't trade our best player for 2 extra picks you completely downgrade our entire draft? Let's get realistic here. We drafted 3 DEs. Having JT on the roster is not such a bad thing to help those guys grow as players.

I thought we needed to trade JT as well but saying we didn't have a great draft because we kept our best player is boarderline insane.

With the picks we had, we got exactly what we needed. I couldn't ask for more. I think you guys were hoping to address every single weak area we had as your all asking for NTs, CBs, and WRs. Those are needs but we had way too many holes to fill in 1 draft. Wouldn't have matter if we had 9 picks or 19 picks, there were too many holes to fill in 1 offseason. We spent our resources exactly were they needed to go. In the trenches and at QB.

Joe,

You can absolutely downgrade a draft for missed opportunities. In this case, not trading JT cost us Quentin Groves. Period. And possibly some more depth picks in the later rds. Now, they have to wait til training camp at the earliest and maybe the trade deadline. What if he gets hurt? What if the distraction of his unhappiness here effects the team? What if his age finally catches up to him. His value plummets.. Bottom line is that they screwed up big time not trading him.

As for the players, you will see that I put down that I really liked the day 1 guys and that while I liked day 2, I thought they could have done better. If I was to ask you before the draft, Adiran Arrington or Lex Hilliard, who are you taking? Ahtyba Rubin or Jalen Parmele? Come on now..

Again, I am not saying it was a bad draft. I have no problem with the building of the "trenches". But, I do have a problem with the fact that I think they left some better players on the board and that they really missed some opportunities with the stubbornness on JT. Think about it, Carl Nicks went in round 5. So did Orlando Scandrick, Roy Schuening, Marcus Howard & Kellen Davis. Those are guys who are going to play in this league this yr. If they "played the game" a little better, I think they would have had some really good players to choose from.

Joeyjr09
04-28-2008, 03:52 PM
Joe,

You can absolutely downgrade a draft for missed opportunities. In this case, not trading JT cost us Quentin Groves. Period.

How do you know that? You have no idea what was offered. From all accounts Jacksonville never offered us more then a 3rd rounder and the TB talks never even reached the point of talking compensation. Even Schefter acknowledged as much and he's usually spot on with his reporting. There were millions of reports flying during the draft but almost everyone is admitting now that he was not even close to being dealt because we never got a good offer. You can go listen to the ESPN guys, they aren't ripping us for keeping Taylor, they are ripping Jacksonville for not putting their 2nd rounder on the table for him. We never even got a halfway decent offer for him from all accounts so your just projecting what you thought we would have been able to get so we can land Grove but in reality you have no idea if we really had a chance to take him or not by trading JT. There's no way you can downgrade us for not getting Groves when it might not have even been feasible for us to land him. That makes no sense.

If you would have asked me before the draft if I WANTED Rubin, then for sure I would have wanted him over most of our 2nd day picks, no questions asked. If you would have asked me if I thought we were going to GET Rubin, I would have said no way. I was not expecting him in this draft class. You can go to the running list of players I said we were targetting and we drafted a fair amount of them including Langford and Dotson on the DL. It's one thing for me to like a guy and want him but I definately was not expecting him and I think you have to tailor your grading based on realistic expectations. Realistically they were not targetting him and did not want him. I find it hard to fault a team for idenitifing the guys they want, and then going out and getting them and the Dolphins got exactly the guys they wanted as I had heard they had really liked Langford, Dotson, Murphy and Henne for weeks. You know for sure they met with Merling as he even said it and Parmele said Miami was in regular contact with him.

As for Parmele, if a week ago you would have said we traded Booker and are going to take a RB, I would have been looking at him in the 4th round range. I would have taken him ahead of Murphy, ahead of Hillard, ahead of Arrington, Monk, Urrutia. I really, really love Parmele as a prospect. He was one of my favorite sleepers along with Dixon and Omon. Landing him to play ST and then take over as Ronnie's main backup next season I thought was a great move and I find no fault in taking him over anyone. The kid is a really good prospect.

I just think you are projecting what you thought should happen instead of projecting what was realistic to happen. I knew this draft was going to be huge on the trenches and I knew which player the Dolphins had targetted. I am not at all surprised that we passed on Rubin or Arrington or any of those guy because we did not have them targetted. I was more surprised by us passing Dan Connor and Charles Godfrey in round 3 as they were targets of ours and both came to Miami to meet with us. But even then, I can't fault the Langford pick because I know how much the staff liked him and he went almost exactly where I had him on my personal board.

I find on fault in targetting the guys you want and getting them pretty much spot on where their value says they should go. You shouldn't stray from your board because some guy like Rubin drops into round 6 which lets everyone know he wasn't as good as anyone thought he was to begin with.

Quagmire
04-29-2008, 09:28 AM
How do you know that? You have no idea what was offered. From all accounts Jacksonville never offered us more then a 3rd rounder and the TB talks never even reached the point of talking compensation. Even Schefter acknowledged as much and he's usually spot on with his reporting. There were millions of reports flying during the draft but almost everyone is admitting now that he was not even close to being dealt because we never got a good offer. You can go listen to the ESPN guys, they aren't ripping us for keeping Taylor, they are ripping Jacksonville for not putting their 2nd rounder on the table for him. We never even got a halfway decent offer for him from all accounts so your just projecting what you thought we would have been able to get so we can land Grove but in reality you have no idea if we really had a chance to take him or not by trading JT. There's no way you can downgrade us for not getting Groves when it might not have even been feasible for us to land him. That makes no sense.

If you would have asked me before the draft if I WANTED Rubin, then for sure I would have wanted him over most of our 2nd day picks, no questions asked. If you would have asked me if I thought we were going to GET Rubin, I would have said no way. I was not expecting him in this draft class. You can go to the running list of players I said we were targetting and we drafted a fair amount of them including Langford and Dotson on the DL. It's one thing for me to like a guy and want him but I definately was not expecting him and I think you have to tailor your grading based on realistic expectations. Realistically they were not targetting him and did not want him. I find it hard to fault a team for idenitifing the guys they want, and then going out and getting them and the Dolphins got exactly the guys they wanted as I had heard they had really liked Langford, Dotson, Murphy and Henne for weeks. You know for sure they met with Merling as he even said it and Parmele said Miami was in regular contact with him.

As for Parmele, if a week ago you would have said we traded Booker and are going to take a RB, I would have been looking at him in the 4th round range. I would have taken him ahead of Murphy, ahead of Hillard, ahead of Arrington, Monk, Urrutia. I really, really love Parmele as a prospect. He was one of my favorite sleepers along with Dixon and Omon. Landing him to play ST and then take over as Ronnie's main backup next season I thought was a great move and I find no fault in taking him over anyone. The kid is a really good prospect.

I just think you are projecting what you thought should happen instead of projecting what was realistic to happen. I knew this draft was going to be huge on the trenches and I knew which player the Dolphins had targetted. I am not at all surprised that we passed on Rubin or Arrington or any of those guy because we did not have them targetted. I was more surprised by us passing Dan Connor and Charles Godfrey in round 3 as they were targets of ours and both came to Miami to meet with us. But even then, I can't fault the Langford pick because I know how much the staff liked him and he went almost exactly where I had him on my personal board.

I find on fault in targetting the guys you want and getting them pretty much spot on where their value says they should go. You shouldn't stray from your board because some guy like Rubin drops into round 6 which lets everyone know he wasn't as good as anyone thought he was to begin with.

Joe,

It is pretty obvious that we were asking for a #1, and were getting offers for #3's. It is not that hard to think that a compromise could have been reached on a #2.. I just think that Tuna was a little pig-headed and would not budge off of his price. When Jax saw this, they decided not to wait and traded for Harvey in rd 1. This killed his leverage and at that point, it was not worth them giving their #2 to get him...

Your analogy of Rubin not being that good to begin with because he dropped does not fly. If that is the case, why did Parmele drop to round 6? He must not be that good either if you use that philosophy....... As far as I remember, his name did not come up one time on this board during the draft process.

Look, I am not saying it was a bad draft, but I will definitely say it is not the perfect draft that you are describing. Taylor was a chip that could and should have been used and they blew it.. In a private moment, I think they would admit that they screwed up on that one...

BigBlueCrew56
04-29-2008, 12:55 PM
Well guys I was reading your draft grades and I have to give my opinion and that is I thought this was a great draft for the Dolphins. I didnt think Langford was a reach at all with his size and ideal frame to play end in the 3-4. Guys like Langford are so hard to find. Merling on the other hand will have to gain some weight again. I heard that he played at 288 but then lost a ton of weight preparing for the combine. I am pretty sure the weight will probably come back fairly easy and with an NFL style strengh and diet program he should be up to 290 in no time. He is a monster vs the run and that is a key thing to be good at being a 3-4 defensive end. I am very pleased with the way the draft turned out because Parcells had a plan and they executed it. Now as Joey stated we can focus on the other positions of need in next years draft. We needed to build through the trenches and that is what we accomplished in this draft so I am giving it an A! Also gotta give my Giants some love selecting Kenny Phillips. That pick really made my day.

http://www.thestate.com/181/story/387873.html


Great article on Philip Merling here guys. He really could be our Richard Seymour.

Joeyjr09
04-29-2008, 02:17 PM
Joe,

It is pretty obvious that we were asking for a #1, and were getting offers for #3's. It is not that hard to think that a compromise could have been reached on a #2.. I just think that Tuna was a little pig-headed and would not budge off of his price. When Jax saw this, they decided not to wait and traded for Harvey in rd 1. This killed his leverage and at that point, it was not worth them giving their #2 to get him...

Your analogy of Rubin not being that good to begin with because he dropped does not fly. If that is the case, why did Parmele drop to round 6? He must not be that good either if you use that philosophy....... As far as I remember, his name did not come up one time on this board during the draft process.

Look, I am not saying it was a bad draft, but I will definitely say it is not the perfect draft that you are describing. Taylor was a chip that could and should have been used and they blew it.. In a private moment, I think they would admit that they screwed up on that one...

Parmele's name was never brought up on here because we had 3 RBs and no one thought we needed to draft one. And my analogy on Rubin is spot on. Rubin is a 3-4 NT. Those guys never, ever get underdrafted. There just isn't enough of them. They are always overdrafted. RBs on the other hand always drop. Hell look at AD last season, he was a clear cut top 3 talent and dropped to number 7. I think it's very fair to say Parmele was a good pick because his position tends to drop so we got good value on him. Guys are Rubin's position never drop, they always get reached for, yet still he fell a long ways from where we thought. Clearly it seems like he was not the prospect we thought he was.

Again with JT. Your assuming that Jacksonville would compromise at a number 2. You have no idea. Fact is that the talks never even got near there. All we had on the table was a number 3. You can't say they should have traded JT for a number 2 and bash them for it when reports say they were never offered a number 2. I think your way overblowing the JT deal and trying to make it seems like some huge mistake for not dealing him.

Fact of the matter is that he is still our best player and a huge influence in our clubhouse, you don't just give those guys away if your not getting the offer you want and by all accounts we were trying to deal him, but just didn't get the type of offer we were looking for. I can't fault the FO for not dealing their best player for a low offer. A 3 is not worth Taylor. And saying they should have compromised and dealt him for a 2 is rediculous cause you have no idea if that was even feasible. How do you know Jacksonville didn't say: "we offer a 3, take it or leave it but that all your getting"? You are blaming the FO and saying they mess up based strictly on your ASSUMPTION that they could have gotten a 2.

Quagmire
04-29-2008, 02:32 PM
Parmele's name was never brought up on here because we had 3 RBs and no one thought we needed to draft one. And my analogy on Rubin is spot on. Rubin is a 3-4 NT. Those guys never, ever get underdrafted. There just isn't enough of them. They are always overdrafted. RBs on the other hand always drop. Hell look at AD last season, he was a clear cut top 3 talent and dropped to number 7. I think it's very fair to say Parmele was a good pick because his position tends to drop so we got good value on him. Guys are Rubin's position never drop, they always get reached for, yet still he fell a long ways from where we thought. Clearly it seems like he was not the prospect we thought he was.

Again with JT. Your assuming that Jacksonville would compromise at a number 2. You have no idea. Fact is that the talks never even got near there. All we had on the table was a number 3. You can't say they should have traded JT for a number 2 and bash them for it when reports say they were never offered a number 2. I think your way overblowing the JT deal and trying to make it seems like some huge mistake for not dealing him.

Fact of the matter is that he is still our best player and a huge influence in our clubhouse, you don't just give those guys away if your not getting the offer you want and by all accounts we were trying to deal him, but just didn't get the type of offer we were looking for. I can't fault the FO for not dealing their best player for a low offer. A 3 is not worth Taylor. And saying they should have compromised and dealt him for a 2 is rediculous cause you have no idea if that was even feasible. How do you know Jacksonville didn't say: "we offer a 3, take it or leave it but that all your getting"? You are blaming the FO and saying they mess up based strictly on your ASSUMPTION that they could have gotten a 2.

Joe,

So NT's don't drop? Then I assume Okam, Dre Moore, Red Bryant all went in round 1? Players drop at every position. Saying Peterson dropping from #3 overall to #7 overall is not a valid comparison when you are talking about Jalen Parmele going from rd 4 to 6. Those guys don't belong in the same sentence!

You can preach all you want about assumptions. There is no way that when push came to shove, that a compromise for a #2 could not have been reached. You can say it all you want, it is incorrect. Deals are made all the time in this league on compromise. They tried to bully Jax into a #1 and it backfired.

This thing about him being such a great locker room guy is not going to fly either. Read the stuff that went on with Cameron last yr. He did not exactly have the coach's back.. Listen, I think he is a good guy who is frustrated with losing. But, if he feels he has been disrespected by the current regime, do you think he is going to sit quietly and do nothing? Think again. I am not saying he is going to turn into Chad Johnson, but he is going to be a distraction. They could have had this guy out of here, moved on and went forward with a bunch of guys that would "drink the kool-aid". Instead, they now have a guy who was here for the losing that does not want to be here. They should have traded him. As good as he has been, his value is going to do nothing but go down. As we watch Groves pile up double digit sacks, you will see that this should have been taken care of.....

Joeyjr09
04-29-2008, 03:30 PM
NTs historically don't drop. RB's historically do drop. I'm not even gonna discuss that point with you because there no reason to. I'm sure you are capable of going up and looking up statistics in order to see that RBs fall. Teams don't value RBs in the draft anywhere near the way they value NTs for a 3-4 defense. You can ask this entire board and they will all say the same thing, so no need to be a smartass saying Moore, Okam and Bryant all should have gone in round 1. You know that was not what I meant. Stop trying to spin the words around.

Again, you can't say that a compromise could have been reached. You keep trying to force your assumption on that issue and I'm sorry but I'm not just gonna go assume that Jacksonville would have offered their 2nd just because you think they would have.

You pick selective topics to argue. You try to argue that historically the leagues trades are based on compromise but completely throw out the window that historically NTs have way more value in drafts then RBs. If your gonna look at history, look at it across the board, not just on the part that support your arguement.

Oh and again, you are saying we tried to bully Jax into giving us a number 1. You have no idea if that was the case. Like I said, go read the reports, we were not getting ripped for asking for a number 1, Jax was getting ripped by offering a number 3. By all indications Jax could very well have been doing the bullying while we were coming down on our offer. Fact is you don't know exactly what happened and ripping our FO based on assumptions is stupid.

Quagmire
04-30-2008, 08:28 AM
NTs historically don't drop. RB's historically do drop. I'm not even gonna discuss that point with you because there no reason to. I'm sure you are capable of going up and looking up statistics in order to see that RBs fall. Teams don't value RBs in the draft anywhere near the way they value NTs for a 3-4 defense. You can ask this entire board and they will all say the same thing, so no need to be a smartass saying Moore, Okam and Bryant all should have gone in round 1. You know that was not what I meant. Stop trying to spin the words around.

Again, you can't say that a compromise could have been reached. You keep trying to force your assumption on that issue and I'm sorry but I'm not just gonna go assume that Jacksonville would have offered their 2nd just because you think they would have.

You pick selective topics to argue. You try to argue that historically the leagues trades are based on compromise but completely throw out the window that historically NTs have way more value in drafts then RBs. If your gonna look at history, look at it across the board, not just on the part that support your arguement.

Oh and again, you are saying we tried to bully Jax into giving us a number 1. You have no idea if that was the case. Like I said, go read the reports, we were not getting ripped for asking for a number 1, Jax was getting ripped by offering a number 3. By all indications Jax could very well have been doing the bullying while we were coming down on our offer. Fact is you don't know exactly what happened and ripping our FO based on assumptions is stupid.

Joe,

Where did you read that the Dolphins were being realistic in asking for a #1 for Taylor? Go back and check the articles, reports, etc. People thought he was crazy to ask for a #1 for a 34 yr old DE. There is a time to play hardball. This was not one of those times. Compromise is not an assumption. The bottom line is they lost the poker game this time with Taylor and now you have a pissed off player who is losing trade value with every dance move he makes..... It isn't stupid. Stupid is assuming the Dolphins were realistic in asking for a #1 for a 34 yr old DE.

I am not being a smartass. You are the one who makes broad generalizations and has to always be right. The fact is NT's drop just like RB's. Even Wilfork dropped to the 20's the yr he came out and he may be the best NT around. Jamal Williams was a 2nd rd pick. Casey Hampton was a low #1. Kris Jenkins was a #3.

I just think that you feel this regime can do no wrong and you look at everything they do with rose-colored glasses. They can screw up and in this case they did.........

thebow305
04-30-2008, 11:27 AM
Maybe the reason the trade didn't get done is because they didn't want to compromise. We wanted a first, they only wanted to give up a 3rd, so there was a stalemate. I think that the compromise argument goes out the window in that case, and IMO that's what happened.

BTW, can't forget about Rubin, he dropped to the 6th. I still can't believe that. And we still didn't get him! Unbelievable!

Joeyjr09
04-30-2008, 03:42 PM
Joe,

Where did you read that the Dolphins were being realistic in asking for a #1 for Taylor? Go back and check the articles, reports, etc. People thought he was crazy to ask for a #1 for a 34 yr old DE. There is a time to play hardball. This was not one of those times. Compromise is not an assumption. The bottom line is they lost the poker game this time with Taylor and now you have a pissed off player who is losing trade value with every dance move he makes..... It isn't stupid. Stupid is assuming the Dolphins were realistic in asking for a #1 for a 34 yr old DE.

I am not being a smartass. You are the one who makes broad generalizations and has to always be right. The fact is NT's drop just like RB's. Even Wilfork dropped to the 20's the yr he came out and he may be the best NT around. Jamal Williams was a 2nd rd pick. Casey Hampton was a low #1. Kris Jenkins was a #3.

I just think that you feel this regime can do no wrong and you look at everything they do with rose-colored glasses. They can screw up and in this case they did.........


Wilfork when he came out was not a can't miss prospect. He was drafted right where everyone thought he would be drafted. He absolutely did not drop. You think just because a NT doesn't go in the top 10 that he dropped. That is not the case. Like I said I'm not getting into that discussion with you, you can go around and ask anyone on here, what position is more likely to get overdrafted and which position is more likely to drop. You'll see what anwsers you get.


Again, your assuming that it was the Dolphins that didn't compromise. How do you know it was the Jags that would not compromise in their offer of a 3rd round pick? That's right you don't know. Your just making those claims to back your arguement. You have no idea what really happened to you cannot blame the FO for a situation that you have no idea if they could have even done anything about.

BTW...What is this JT is unhappy talk? I mean for Christ sake man, this is JT we are talking about, not Chad Johnson or TO. JT has never once openly said anything bad about the Dolphins. He has never ever publicly demanded to be traded. He still showed up at Dolphins camp even during his Dancing with the Stars. All he has done is asked to be traded to a winning team. That's it. If he doesn't get dealt I promise you he will do what he always does, he will act like a professional, show up to work everyday and play good football. Your crazy if your expecting JT to suddenly turn into Chad Johnson and be a locker room cancer. He was put thru 1-15 last year and still was a good character guy and very professional, you think that now with the team suddenly making some good moves and looking to turn things around that he would pull a TO and mess up the locker room chemistry? Get real man.

LonghornsLegend
05-02-2008, 03:07 AM
Look at this freak QB that we got as an UDFA!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOfVreEXJM4

I'm guessing he will be trying out as a WR or KR seeing he is a whopping 5'9 165

The play he made at the 1 minute mark was just sick, this guy has enough talent to earn a roster spot at least, I'd let him return punts with the way he moves.

thebow305
05-03-2008, 12:54 AM
The play he made at the 1 minute mark was just sick, this guy has enough talent to earn a roster spot at least, I'd let him return punts with the way he moves.

Agreed. That video is pretty nasty. I definitely wouldn't mind him back there on punts just as long as he can take the hits on the next level being that small. This would take some pressure off Ginn for sure. I still want Ginn back there a lot of time though because he is our real playmaker and maybe the fastest man in the league.

Joeyjr09
05-04-2008, 08:43 PM
Agreed. That video is pretty nasty. I definitely wouldn't mind him back there on punts just as long as he can take the hits on the next level being that small. This would take some pressure off Ginn for sure. I still want Ginn back there a lot of time though because he is our real playmaker and maybe the fastest man in the league.

Ginn's flat out straight line speed will force us to keep him as our main kick returner. He broke a couple nice run backs of kickoffs last year. He struggled on punt returns because he was not great in the short area. If this new kid can handle the PR while leaving Ginn to do just some kick returning and better himself as a WR, I think it's a good move. Ginn absolutely has to be on kick returns tho. He's just too good when he gets that full head of steam going foward.