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Scotty D
04-27-2008, 04:54 PM
Rd 1 - #17(17) Gosder Cherilus (OT) BC

Questionable to move away from Albert and then pass on Otah. Look for him to hold down the RT spot for a long time.

Rd 2 - #14(45) Jordon Dizon (OLB) Colorado

Hopefully he leaves TC as the starting Mike. Questionable value but hey if we finally found our MLB I'm ok with it.

Rd 3 - #1(64) Kevin Smith (RB) C Florida

I loved this pick, it was a start to a great second day. He should be the starting runningback very soon. Calhoun and Bell are garbage.

Rd 3 - #24(87) Andre Fluellen (DT) Florida St

Expected. Rod was at FSU's proday. Thought we would be looking at their DTs. I like the pick. Shaun Cody is in trouble.

Rd 3 - #29(92) Cliff Avril (DE) Purdue

Steal. Amazing pick.

Rd 5 - #1(136) Kenneth Moore (WR) W Forest

I don't know much about this guy. What I've read is that he can basically do anything. This guy is going be our return man.

Rd 5 - #11(146) Jerome Felton (FB) Furman

Toon likes him alot. Thats all I needed. Should get the short yardage looks.

Rd 7 - #9(216) Landon Cohen (DT) Ohio

No idea.

Rd 7 - #11(218) Caleb Campbell (S) Army

Love it. Feel good pick. Saw an interview that Rod intends to try him out as a SAM backer.


Edit - If think its an (+ or -) indicate in your post.

Brodeur
04-27-2008, 05:02 PM
I'll give it a B for now with a chance to improve. Matt/Rod drafted pretty much every need we had and I like that they went after the non-sexy pick consistently. I still don't know anything about the jew though.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-27-2008, 05:29 PM
Rd 1 - #17(17) Gosder Cherilus (OT) BC

Grade B+: Solid pick filling a huge need for years at Right Tackle. Mayo and Harvey were gone, couldn't do anything about it and trading up means we give up at least 1 3rd round pick and possibly don't get Kevin Smith. The key to this draft was the trade down. Moving up 10 spots was crucial in getting Kevin Smith. If we take Albert we don't get Kevin Smith at 76, we are screwed at Running back. Cherilus has played both left and right tackle and was Matt Ryans protection, who passed a ton last year. Cherilus is a great run blocker and fits the Zone Blocking scheme. Jagodzinski brought it to BC and now Cherilus can't use that here in Detroit. Right Tackle should be solid and we can experiment with Foster at right guard.

Rd 2 - #14(45) Jordon Dizon (OLB) Colorado

Grade: C This pick suprised me. Barry/Marinelli know what they are doing but the size and the sting of Teddy Lehman still hurts me. I hope he turns out and puts everyone who bashes him in their place, but I'll believe it when I see it. Dizon produced in college but this may have been a reach. I don't know.

Rd 3 - #1(64) Kevin Smith (RB) C Florida

Grade A: Great pick. Fits the ZBS perfectly, great produciton, Smith really knew this team and we didn't miss out on the second tier of RBs. If we did we would have been screwed so trading up to the top of Round 3 was a great move. The 1st round trade down allowed this and I'm glad we did it instead of Albert(guard). Kevin Smith and Bell combo I really like.

Rd 3 - #24(87) Andre Fluellen (DT) Florida St
Grade A: Cody and Langston Moore are terrible. We needed a DT badly and whoever Marinelli wants at DT, I will trust. Fluellen had some injuries last year but it allowed him to fall to Round 3. Good run stuffer and allows us to rotate someone decent with Darby instead of Cody/Moore.

Rd 3 - #29(92) Cliff Avril (DE) Purdue

GradeA. Another very good pick. We gave up a 4th and a future 4th for him but we needed a pass rusher for 3rd downs. Purdue has a good pedigree and this guy could play SAM if needed too. So it hedges our bets on Dizon. I think Avril will be a DE though and hopefully gets us a pass rush. Its better than playing DeVries on 3rd down and allows us to move Ikaika inside on 3rd downs.

Rd 5 - #1(136) Kenneth Moore (WR) W Forest

Grade B: Versatile and we needed a 5th WR. Solid pick. He's not the greatest kickoff guy but a good punt returner.

Rd 5 - #11(146) Jerome Felton (FB) Furman

Garce: B- I would have preffered Owen Schmitt but this guy has great character and is a good short yardage back. He's making the roster though.

Rd 7 - #9(216) Landon Cohen (DT) Ohio

Grade C: No clue.

Rd 7 - #11(218) Caleb Campbell (S) Army

Grace B+. It was a feel good pick, but I don't know about SAM backer for this guy. He'll work hard for us.

Overall: B+

Solid and not flashy. An anti-Millen draft but other than Dizon, I can't argue with any of them. Oh and ROY WILLIAMS WAS NOT TRADED. NOT EVEN ANY INTEREST ACCORDING TO MILLEN. WOOHOO. Sign him next offseason when we have the money.

Brothgar
04-27-2008, 06:40 PM
Rd 1 - #17(17) Gosder Cherilus (OT) BC

Grade B: I like Cherilius more than Otah I think Otah is too slow for a ZBS which is exactly why Houston also passed on him. That said I would have much rather stuck around and took Albert as one who could be the best guard to come out of the draft in 4-5 years but I do have more faith in Peterman than I do in foster.

Rd 2 - #14(45) Jordon Dizon (OLB) Colorado

Grade C: Dizon is very undersized to be a MLB at 230 lbs and who knows what those extra 5-10 lbs will do to his speed (I know nothing about "Frames"). I could be wrong about the kid. Outside his great football persona I don't really see what they see in him.



Rd 3 - #1(64) Kevin Smith (RB) C Florida
Grade B+: I would have liked Chris Johnson but he went to Tenn in round 1. Ray Rice would also have been nice but he wasn't there either. I think that


Rd 3 - #24(87) Andre Fluellen (DT) Florida St

Grade B-: I'm not as high on this player as everyone else. Yes I am a big Frank Okam slappy I think he is going to be a great player. That said I don't think Okam would be a perfect fit in this scheme where Fluellen seems to be that type.


Rd 3 - #29(92) Cliff Avril (DE) Purdue

Grade A: Steal. Amazing pick. He could play SLB for 2 downs then a situational pass rusher on 3rd down. I like it alot. best pick in the Lions draft hands down.

Rd 5 - #1(136) Kenneth Moore (WR) W Forest

Grade C+: He has good hands and has been a Kick Returner with some success which is what he is likely to be. But he doesn't have great speed or dare I say average speed for him to be a KR.

Rd 5 - #11(146) Jerome Felton (FB) Furman

Grade B: I am an Owen Schmitt guy I still think Schmitt will be a great football player. That said I think Felton will be a great pick and we really need a real FB.

Rd 7 - #9(216) Landon Cohen (DT) Ohio

Who? Grade N/A


Rd 7 - #11(218) Caleb Campbell (S) Army

Grade B+: Whenever a 7th round pick makes your squad it is a great pick I see Campbell as a decent special teams player. Who will make the squad that way.


Final grade B- C+

Predictions
Year 1 starters - 3/4 Cherilius, Dizon (due to the shear crappiness of our LB corps without Sims) and Kevin Smith will end up having half the snaps by the end of the year (unless the round 3 curse happens to him too). Avril as the SLB?

Players to make the team 6 add Felton and Fluellen

detroit4life
04-27-2008, 06:40 PM
ill give it a B we drafted need and i think we did a very good job doing that. I would give it an A but im not sold on Dizon. Also think its very questionable on us passing up Albert i would rather have taken him

Prowler
04-27-2008, 06:45 PM
B, outstanding substance but lacking the substance and flash of an A if that makes sense. a lot of really good parts in this draft. love smith, fluellen, and avril. gosder is one of the elite 1st round tackles so its solid for me, and even took a serviceman. not too bad. i don't see an instant pro bowler which is why its not an A. it deserves the B for me.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-27-2008, 06:51 PM
ill give it a B we drafted need and i think we did a very good job doing that. I would give it an A but im not sold on Dizon. Also think its very questionable on us passing up Albert i would rather have taken him


Passing on Albert is questionable but if we didn't pass on Albert and trade down then, I don't think we would have gotten Kevin Smith. It worked out well for us that we were able to get the last second tier RB because Johnson, Rice and Forte went earlier than expected. Cherilus is actually a tackle whereas Albert is only projected to be a tackle(only played 2 games at tackle, where Cherilus played many). Cherilus is solid.

Scotty D
04-27-2008, 06:56 PM
I think everyone has a legit shot to make the roster, well except Cohen. We could probably sneak him on the practice squad need be. Completely different then last years draft. Should help in the roster turnover.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-27-2008, 07:01 PM
I think everyone has a legit shot to make the roster, well except Cohen. We could probably sneak him on the practice squad need be. Completely different then last years draft. Should help in the roster turnover.

I think Cohen has a small shot. Langston Moore and Cody are both awful IMO. However, two rookie backups DTs wouldn't be the best thing.

What undrafted free agents should we target?
There are some decent LBs.

Scotty D
04-27-2008, 07:02 PM
I think Cohen has a small shot. Langston Moore and Cody are both awful IMO. However, two rookie backups DTs wouldn't be the best thing.

What undrafted free agents should we target?
There are some decent LBs.

I like Saint-Dic but he not a Rod guy at all. I love Dorien Bryant as a KR. We don't really need a LB, but there is some intriguing talent out there.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-27-2008, 07:06 PM
Yeah I had Dorien Byrant in my mock. We need a 5th WR and a little competition with Kenneth Moore wouldn't hurt.

Is Devale Ellis still on the team? Wasn't he supposed to be the 5th WR and KR and got hurt last year?

Prowler
04-27-2008, 07:30 PM
jonathan zenon, just to give him a shot? or darnell terrell. don't know how much more secondary players we can keep though. especially with all the versatility at safety now. atleast they can get into training camp with about any cover 2 team.

Scotty D
04-27-2008, 07:33 PM
jonathan zenon, just to give him a shot? or darnell terrell. don't know how much more secondary players we can keep though. especially with all the versatility at safety now. atleast they can get into training camp with about any cover 2 team.

Ahhhh yeah I forgot about Zenon. We should be interested in him. Definitely would atleast like him on the practice squad.

woodnick
04-27-2008, 07:52 PM
Here you go everybody:

Landon Cohen DT OHIO
Cohen is a one-gap defensive tackle who is at his best disrupting running plays, making plays in the backfield and rushing the passer. The biggest knock on him is that he's vastly undersized for the interior defensive line, which could mean that teams will have success running at him.

casskid
04-27-2008, 07:52 PM
I doubt that Moore is gone, the coaching staff seems to really like him and I dont remember him being that bad. In fact I kinda like Moore coming off the bench as a rotation guy. If he was a starter I would be crying, but as a rotation guy not bad.

Well the Lions addressed positions of need so I cant really knock that. Seems like for once we got some decent picks and value in later rounds and the only real wtfs are Dizon and Cohen.

woodnick
04-27-2008, 07:54 PM
Oh and Cohen is 6'3" 272 lbs, thats why he's "vastly undersized"

Brodeur
04-27-2008, 07:55 PM
Langston Moore really wasn't all that bad last year and was very productive at times. Shaun Cody though is a piece of ****.

Xiomera
04-27-2008, 10:22 PM
I gave it a D.

That's probably an overreaction, but I am not pleased with much of what we did.

Best pick: Avril
Worst pick: Dizon

SINCE1978
04-27-2008, 10:46 PM
B+ for Lions, first year on this site & it get's an A ... nice stuff.

Cherilus (OT) - I was sold on this guy after his gutty performance in the Va Tech thriller in Blacksburg, he did a nice job on Ellis ... also looked very impressive in the bowl game against MSU, Saint Dic struggled. He is not the glamour but has Marinelli written all over him. Colletto maybe too ...

Dizon (LB) - I'm a CU alum so I love this pick. He has tons of heart and the size knock on Jordan just revs his engine more ... Again, Marinelli pick for sure and his versatility will pay dividends on that D. Let's pray he can stay healthy and be, dare I say, Spielman-ish for the next 8 yrs!

Smith (RB) - Outside of dmac & jstew he was my favorite back for the lions in this draft, great strategy to jump up 2 spots to get him and he will be a consistant 1,000 yrd rusher.

Fluellen (DT) - He is the guy who makes this draft swing up or down based on his production. I liked Laws, Rubin & Moore on paper (still think Laws is going to be a bad man in this league!) but saw an interview and he is a creative writing major so great head on his shoulders ... in coachrod I trust =)

Avril (DE) - It's an athlete like this that makes this draft stand out. Purdue has put a few in the league and let's hope he does not dissapoint. Depending on his use I expect big things from this youngster .... great footbal IQ

Moore (WR) - my "reach" pick ... millen had a swig of the dumby juice before rd 5 started and reverted back to his old ways ... thought other needs were higher here, but this kid better end up being the return guy we've coveted since mel gray. Rumors swirling of McDonald being traded to 49ers & Lavelle Ellis is no longer on the club so he could be okay, again very productive, "do anything" college player.

Felton (FB) Furman - I also loved Schmitt as a lion but this guy is total top shelf. Read about some of his non-football stats and it made me gush, he will make the team and elevate the play of those around him. It's time we had a real FB, not converts & fill-ins of the past 2-3 seasons ... another coachrod guy I bet!

Cohen (DT) - With what was still on the board (Henderson,Highsmith,Radovich) I trust coachrod with HIS DT's so that tells me (and many of you agree) that Cody & others who were here before are soon to get the pink slip in the locker. IMO, if not a "message" pick it was my least favorite.

Campbell (S) - "come in shape. come ready to tackle." LOVE THAT! Marinelli to young Caleb on the phone ... he makes a roster spot and (drool) he could be the SLB maybe, just maybe ... if not, a gunner.

Is it out on a limb to say all these cats make the squad out of TC?? Wow, I like the holes filled, I like the youth movement. Dare I say that after 8 years this team under Millen is finally having an identity & taking shape? ;o)

That's why they play the games!

SINCE1978
04-27-2008, 10:55 PM
I gave it a D.

That's probably an overreaction, but I am not pleased with much of what we did.

Best pick: Avril
Worst pick: Dizon

IYO who had the best draft? Where are the Lions out of the whole NFL?

Just curious ...

ThEvIcTR
04-27-2008, 11:12 PM
The only reason everyone is hating on Dizon so bad is because they have only seen him play like once. If you watch him play he is all over the field and is great in zone coverage. His production speaks for itself, 8th all time tackler in NCAA history? I'll take that any day of the week.


Kevin Smith is my favorite pick of this draft and he is unstoppable. He will make all you Mendenhall lovers stop crying and bitching about THE RIGHT choice in the first round.

Avril = steal i wonder how he will be used.

asmitty45
04-27-2008, 11:56 PM
I give this a B+, i really think the 3rd round redeemed this whole draft for me.

While Cherilus is a very good pick positionally and I like Dizon's fit in our system as well, I think Kevin Smith has the chance to be really special for us. Also Fluellen and Avril both will contribute immidiately on our DLine.

In our division I think we can really stand a chance if these guys come to play. For now, good work Lions.

MightyJD
04-28-2008, 07:47 AM
If our 1-3 rounders come out and play hard this will have been a very successful draft!

WMD
04-28-2008, 07:50 AM
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/football/nfl/stories/042808dnspogosselingrades.3945201.html

Rick Gosselin gave the Lions an A for the draft:

"The Lions wanted to make this a defensive draft and selected three potential starters in the first three rounds. But their offense, the NFL's worst last season, may benefit even more from the arrival of OT Cherilus and RB Smith."

The Bears, Rams, and Chiefs (A+) were the only other A's.

BcLion
04-28-2008, 08:20 AM
I give this draft a A+ No sexy picks just plain team building pieces. I like Smith in 3rd and would have been disapointed had they drafted a RB before the 3rd. This is the draft that the team needed in worst way. People can complain all they want that it was milk and toast and not steak and eggs, But we have ignored the obvious for so long I cant help but get excited over what it could mean for the future. Those sexy picks of the past may actually start to look worth their draft status now that we worked the Lines.

Bclion

Bootland27
04-28-2008, 11:54 AM
I'll give them a solid B. They went out and filled their needs, and managed the draft very well with the trade down to 17 and swapping 3rd round picks with KC. Had we not traded down we probably don't get into position to take Kevin Smith. Still kinda pissed about Dizon, and at 45 would have rather had Connor instead. Love all 3 picks in the 3rd, and should contribute right away. All 3 guys are potential starters in this league and thats what you have to get in the 3rd.

Iamcanadian
04-28-2008, 12:27 PM
[QUOTE=Scotty D;1043458]Rd 1 - #17(17) Gosder Cherilus (OT) BC

Questionable to move away from Albert and then pass on Otah. Look for him to hold down the RT spot for a long time.

---Great, now we have 2 RT starting for the Lions none of which can handle elite pass rushers when we could have drafted Albert, moved him to LT and sent Backus to RT.

Rd 2 - #14(45) Jordon Dizon (OLB) Colorado

Hopefully he leaves TC as the starting Mike. Questionable value but hey if we finally found our MLB I'm ok with it.

----A 3rd rounder who as usual Millen paniced and felt he had to move up for, a guy who was sure to fall to him. If this guy starts at MLB for us as a rookie I'll be very surprised although he has little competition.


Rd 3 - #1(64) Kevin Smith (RB) C Florida

I loved this pick, it was a start to a great second day. He should be the starting runningback very soon. Calhoun and Bell are garbage.

----Smith is a nice prospect but hardly a sure thing. He lacks breakaway speed but who else do we have to do the job.


Rd 3 - #24(87) Andre Fluellen (DT) Florida St

Expected. Rod was at FSU's proday. Thought we would be looking at their DTs. I like the pick. Shaun Cody is in trouble.

----Just what we needed, a player who plays the same position as Redding, yeah, we can afford to draft bench warmers, we are so solid everywhere else.


Rd 3 - #29(92) Cliff Avril (DE) Purdue

Steal. Amazing pick.

----Hardly a steal, a nice prospect who has all the measurables but where's the production at Purdue. A Workout warrior who we'll have to see if he can actually play.


Rd 5 - #1(136) Kenneth Moore (WR) W Forest

I don't know much about this guy. What I've read is that he can basically do anything. This guy is going be our return man.

----Yeah, again, we can afford to be drafting more WR's. What a joke!!!


Rd 5 - #11(146) Jerome Felton (FB) Furman

Toon likes him alot. Thats all I needed. Should get the short yardage looks.

----Well, at least he has a shot to be a starting FB.


Rd 7 - #9(216) Landon Cohen (DT) Ohio

No idea.

Rd 7 - #11(218) Caleb Campbell (S) Army

Love it. Feel good pick. Saw an interview that Rod intends to try him out as a SAM backer.

----Doesn't he still have to fulfill 2 years of Army service before he is available?


I give us an 'F', Millen as usual panics and feels he has to trade up for our day 2 picks. We lost I believe a 3rd rounder for next year's draft for absolutely no reason in what can only be discribed as a very weak draft year.
We ended up with 2 RT's starting neither of which can pass block an elite DE and IMO, not much else.
Our offense completely depends on Smith's performance, a 3rd round talent who lacks breakaway speed. But don't worry, we did draft another WR.
Our defense which was already the worst in the NFL and lost Rogers, Bryant, Bailey and Edwards got 1 possible replacement, a 3rd rounder who Millen paniced for and actually moved up for in round 2.
There is no way you can rate this draft at this time as anything but another Millen failure. You will have to put on pretty thick rose coloured glasses, to describe this as a successful draft.

P-L
04-28-2008, 01:09 PM
The Army is the only military service that lets you out of your commitment if you sign with an NFL team. If Campbell signs with us, then he doesn't have to serve his two years.

Secondly, I think you're making too big of a deal about the Kenneth Moore pick. First of all, it was a only a 5th Round pick. Secondly, they didn't trade up for him. Moore was picked with the pick that Kansas City gave us when we traded down in the 1st. And finally, I'm assuming Moore was drafted to be our kick/punt returner, which was a need. Maybe you want Aveion Cason and Shaun McDonald returning kicks and punts, but I don't. Assuming Moore was drafted to be a returner, no one should have a problem with the pick, especially considering it was only a 5th Round pick.

Brodeur
04-28-2008, 02:28 PM
I give us an 'F', Millen as usual panics and feels he has to trade up for our day 2 picks. We lost I believe a 3rd rounder for next year's draft for absolutely no reason in what can only be discribed as a very weak draft year.
We ended up with 2 RT's starting neither of which can pass block an elite DE and IMO, not much else.
Our offense completely depends on Smith's performance, a 3rd round talent who lacks breakaway speed. But don't worry, we did draft another WR.
Our defense which was already the worst in the NFL and lost Rogers, Bryant, Bailey and Edwards got 1 possible replacement, a 3rd rounder who Millen paniced for and actually moved up for in round 2.
There is no way you can rate this draft at this time as anything but another Millen failure. You will have to put on pretty thick rose coloured glasses, to describe this as a successful draft.

There is so much wrong with this post it's not even funny. First of all, Cherilius actually shut down Derrick Harvey so there goes your inability to block an elite DE argument. Second of all, Bryant was replaced by Bodden who is worlds better, and Bailey/Edwards were both awful last season. As for Kevin Smith's speed, it's a lot better than you seem to think it is. It isn't Chris Johnson type but it's good enough for the NFL. And the WR argument is just plain stupid and P-L already managed to cover that.

I know you have this obsession with being negative on every single post IAC, but if you think this is a F, then you really need some help.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-28-2008, 02:47 PM
There is so much wrong with this post it's not even funny. First of all, Cherilius actually shut down Derrick Harvey so there goes your inability to block an elite DE argument. Second of all, Bryant was replaced by Bodden who is worlds better, and Bailey/Edwards were both awful last season. As for Kevin Smith's speed, it's a lot better than you seem to think it is. It isn't Chris Johnson type but it's good enough for the NFL. And the WR argument is just plain stupid and P-L already managed to cover that.

I know you have this obsession with being negative on every single post IAC, but if you think this is a F, then you really need some help.

Agreed. Our corner addition of Bodden and Kelly helped this defense. Dizon is a wait and see but he fits, is smart, produces and somebody on the coaching staff must have loved him. I would think Millen would go Connor.

Look we could have went Albert,Kevin Smith in Round 2,Dizon in Round 3,Fluellen and Avril and people probably would think higher of this draft. But our philosophy with the worst case scenario in the 1st round, had to be LB that fit the Cover 2(not Connor doesn't fit)in the second round and hope we get a second tier RB in Round 3. People would be screaming their heads off if we went offense, offense in Round 1 and 2. So we made the best out of bad situation of defensive players being off the board. We traded back, got a solid Right Tackle, who has 50 more games of experience at tackle than Albert and fits our system which helped assure we still got Kevin Smith in Round 3. That is the key to the draft. Without Kevin Smith, this draft is terrible. Someone could have traded up to get Smith if he was falling. Nobody will ever know. I'm just glad we got him since Forte was gone before we even had a chance at him.

Prowler
04-28-2008, 03:29 PM
Our offense completely depends on Smith's performance, a 3rd round talent who lacks breakaway speed. But don't worry, we did draft another WR.
Our defense which was already the worst in the NFL and lost Rogers, Bryant, Bailey and Edwards got 1 possible replacement, a 3rd rounder who Millen paniced for and actually moved up for in round 2.
There is no way you can rate this draft at this time as anything but another Millen failure. You will have to put on pretty thick rose coloured glasses, to describe this as a successful draft.

A. Jamal Lewis was the 5th leading rusher last year. You feel like telling me about his breakaway speed? And heck his comparison is Chris Brown who ran for 175 yards the first week against Jacksonville. Also Emmitt Smith and Jerry Rice were 4.6s i believe. 2,567 yards and 29 touchdowns, what are you possibly complaining about there? Also we still have tatum bell on the team...

B. see Fluellen, Darby at DT. see Bodden and Kelly at CB. see Dizon(160 tackles in 12 games), Campbell, and maybe even Avril at LB. (atleast according to one site i saw) and then IAF and avril will take up the slack for kalimba's so called "production".

C. you have to have on some pretty thick crap covered glasses to not see that this draft helped us a lot. if you are projecting failures then this is not the time. nobody has played a down yet. will these picks fail? who knows? maybe gosder sucks and dizon is too small. not a single down has been played yet, so we'll see next year. for right now atleast, nobody can say that we were not helped. we got our positions and pretty good guys to fill them. if you want to complain about something then choose to say, "we should have gotten mendenhall or albert" but beyond that I don't know what else to really find wrong with this draft.

and i believe the 2nd round was one of the few rounds that we didn't trade around in.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-28-2008, 03:37 PM
Our offense completely depends on Smith's performance, a 3rd round talent who lacks breakaway speed. But don't worry, we did draft another WR.
Our defense which was already the worst in the NFL and lost Rogers, Bryant, Bailey and Edwards got 1 possible replacement, a 3rd rounder who Millen paniced for and actually moved up for in round 2.

Wow. The offense completely depends on Kevin Smith. Are Roy Williams,Calvin Johnson,Furrey,McDonald not playing this year? Tatum Bell isn't going to split some carries in a zone blocking scheme?

Rogers was a loss. Everyone wanted him gone at the end of last year. I'm sure you did too. We got Bodden whos is much for physical than Bryant and Fluellen by trading Rogers. Bodden is an upgrade no doubt about it and Fluellen at least provides some sort of rotation with Redding/Darby. You really miss Boss Bailey and Kalimba Edwards.. And Millen did not move up for Dizon in Round 2. He may have reached for Dizon while not reaching for Kevin Smith,Fluellen and Avril, but he didn't trade up to get Dizon.

DoWnThEfiElD
04-28-2008, 03:51 PM
This is so anti our last few drafts. I feel they went in a different direction truely shying away from flashy big name guys. I don't even really know how to grade it because this is not typical of the lions. I really think that in two years this could turn out to be our best draft yet, but I really do not know. I'm just really excited to see how these guys play and i hope we get more than a couple starters out of this draft.

Iamcanadian
04-28-2008, 04:35 PM
[QUOTE=Prowler;1046069]A. Jamal Lewis was the 5th leading rusher last year. You feel like telling me about his breakaway speed? And heck his comparison is Chris Brown who ran for 175 yards the first week against Jacksonville. Also Emmitt Smith and Jerry Rice were 4.6s i believe. 2,567 yards and 29 touchdowns, what are you possibly complaining about there? Also we still have tatum bell on the team...

Jamal Lewis came into the league as a 4.45 40 runner when he was drafted and he can still turn it on when he breaks loose. Jerry Rice ran a 4.40 40 at the combine according to Gil Brandt who timed him. Emmitt Smith ran a 4.60 but is one of the very few slow RB's to ever start in the NFL and he had 1st round talent while Smith is a 3rd rounder. Chris Brown is a solid 4.50 40 runner so tell me again that Kevin Smith is a sure thing with his 4.60 40 time.
B. see Fluellen, Darby at DT. see Bodden and Kelly at CB. see Dizon(160 tackles in 12 games), Campbell, and maybe even Avril at LB. (atleast according to one site i saw) and then IAF and avril will take up the slack for kalimba's so called "production".


Fluellan is a 1 gap penetrating DT who plays the same position as Redding in a Cover 2 defense and I seriously doubt he beats out Redding. Bodden has never played for a zone defensive team so it isn't a sure thing at all that he will make an immediate impact and be a starter. Kelly is old and will probably play nickle and help teach the other CB how to play zone defense. He couldn't hold his starting position with Tampa Bay last year and I doubt he starts for us unless injuries intervene..

C. you have to have on some pretty thick crap covered glasses to not see that this draft helped us a lot. if you are projecting failures then this is not the time. nobody has played a down yet. will these picks fail? who knows? maybe gosder sucks and dizon is too small. not a single down has been played yet, so we'll see next year. for right now atleast, nobody can say that we were not helped. we got our positions and pretty good guys to fill them. if you want to complain about something then choose to say, "we should have gotten mendenhall or albert" but beyond that I don't know what else to really find wrong with this draft.

Yeah, Detroit fans have been saying that for 7 years now and the results are a 31-81 record over that time. With all the previous failures of Millen as a drafter, you would have to have pretty thick rose coloured glasses to think he struck it rich here or haven't you noticed the poor job he's done.

Avril was drafted to play DE for us not LB, there is absolutely no way he can play LB for a Cover 2 team.

I'll tell you why Millen didn't draft Albert because there is a hint of risk with Albert even though his ceiling potential is through the roof. Millen has had just too many draft failures to take ANY risk even though the rewards for drafting Albert could have been huge. Instead he played it safe and took Cherilius, a far lessor natural talent who will likely be an OK RT for a decade but leaves us with Backus as our LT who is really inadequate for the position. The same with Mendenhall, he only started for 1 year in college which makes him a huge risk to flop but if Millen could actually assess talent he might have been able to decide how good Mendenhall might become, he can't so again he just played it safe.

Your claim that this draft "helped us a lot" is based on what, a belief that Millen got it right after 7 years of failures. You go on believing it but I don't, if anything his drafting gets worse every year and I have 7 years to back up my claim, you have only his 31-81 record to back up yours.

Iamcanadian
04-28-2008, 04:59 PM
There is so much wrong with this post it's not even funny. First of all, Cherilius actually shut down Derrick Harvey so there goes your inability to block an elite DE argument. Second of all, Bryant was replaced by Bodden who is worlds better, and Bailey/Edwards were both awful last season. As for Kevin Smith's speed, it's a lot better than you seem to think it is. It isn't Chris Johnson type but it's good enough for the NFL. And the WR argument is just plain stupid and P-L already managed to cover that.

----Please, if your going to make an argument at least check out the facts which are easy to find. Any scouting report on Cherilius states that he has a great deal of difficulty blocking fast elite DE's on passing plays, that is why he is projected to be only able to play RT with no possibility that he can play LT in the pros.
How do you know Bodden is "worlds better" than Bryant, he has never played CB for a team playing in a zone defense. Nobody yet knows how well he will adjust to a new defense.
As for Smith's speed, about 95% of the RB in the NFL run a 4.50 40 or faster so don't tell me he is "good enough for the NFL", we'll have to wait and see on that one.
Tell me, if Millen wanted a punt returner why not look for a CB who could do the job and maybe help that position as well, why target a WR.

I know you have this obsession with being negative on every single post IAC, but if you think this is a F, then you really need some help.

----Let's see, Millen has the worst draft record over the last 7 seasons in the entire NFL which has produced a 31-81 record(also thje worst record over the last 7 years in the NFL). He appears to me to be trying to avoid any risk when drafting no matter how much potential a prospect has. IMO, he has absolutely no idea on draft day because to put it mildly, he cannot assess talent so he plays it as safe as he can. That's why he traded back for Cherilius over Albert, just too scary for Millen to even consider. Hence he has no plan on which he can rebuild the Lions. He consistantly switches coaches and brings in other coaches who play completely diffent systems which forces the new HC to start all over again with personnel that suits his new schemes.
The man is a joke at the draft table and the laughing stock of the NFL and you expect me to give him a rating higher than a "F", I don't think so. When he produces a winner, I'll be glad to stop being critical but I seriouisly doubt either of us will ever see it.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-28-2008, 04:59 PM
Jamal Lewis came into the league as a 4.45 40 runner when he was drafted and he can still turn it on when he breaks loose. Jerry Rice ran a 4.40 40 at the combine according to Gil Brandt who timed him. Emmitt Smith ran a 4.60 but is one of the very few slow RB's to ever start in the NFL and he had 1st round talent while Smith is a 3rd rounder. Chris Brown is a solid 4.50 40 runner so tell me again that Kevin Smith is a sure thing with his 4.60 40 time.

Nobody is a sure thing. I likes Smiths fit in the Zone blocking scheme though, his instincts, his vision, his production, he can catch the ball and he can block. He had the second best three cone drill, so he can cut and make a decision.


Fluellan is a 1 gap penetrating DT who plays the same position as Redding in a Cover 2 defense and I seriously doubt he beats out Redding. Bodden has never played for a zone defensive team so it isn't a sure thing at all that he will make an immediate impact and be a starter. Kelly is old and will probably play nickle and help teach the other CB how to play zone defense. He couldn't hold his starting position with Tampa Bay last year and I doubt he starts for us unless injuries intervene..

I agree Fluellen will be an Undertackle unless he can bulk up. But Cody is terrible. If Fluellen is better than Cody, then we have gotten better. Two Undertackles on 3rd down wouldn't be a bad thing. All I expect out of Fluellen is a decent rotation for once.

Bodden has never played zone, which is a good thing. If he can excel in man coverage, him being tough and physical too, means zone should be no problem. Bryant didn't fit. He was too small and not physical enough. Kelly should at least compete to start. I don't expect much out of Wilson and Fisher is the nickel.

Yeah, Detroit fans have been saying that for 7 years now and the results are a 31-81 record over that time. With all the previous failures of Millen as a drafter, you would have to have pretty thick rose coloured glasses to think he struck it rich here or haven't you noticed the poor job he's done.

Your relying to much on the past for this draft grade I think. If the Colts took Dizon or Kevin Smith, you're perception of them would change. Just because Millen pick them does not put some curse on them to fail. This draft has more Marinelli influence than Millen IMO.

Avril was drafted to play DE for us not LB, there is absolutely no way he can play LB for a Cover 2 team.

Agreed, Avril is a DE 3rd down situational pass rusher.

I'll tell you why Millen didn't draft Albert because there is a hint of risk with Albert even though his ceiling potential is through the roof. Millen has had just too many draft failures to take ANY risk even though the rewards for drafting Albert could have been huge. Instead he played it safe and took Cherilius, a far lessor natural talent who will likely be an OK RT for a decade but leaves us with Backus as our LT who is really inadequate for the position. The same with Mendenhall, he only started for 1 year in college which makes him a huge risk to flop but if Millen could actually assess talent he might have been able to decide how good Mendenhall might become, he can't so again he just played it safe.

Good I'm glad he played it safe. 50 more games at tackle for Cherilus over Albert makes me feel safer with the pick. We should have done that for years, especially when Millen was knew and had to get his feet wet as a GM.

Your claim that this draft "helped us a lot" is based on what, a belief that Millen got it right after 7 years of failures. You go on believing it but I don't, if anything his drafting gets worse every year and I have 7 years to back up my claim, you have only his 31-81 record to back up yours.

I don't know how this is worse than Mike Williams,Cody,Stanely Wilson. Again your relying on past failures to dictate your perception of the future. Right now nobody knows, but based on my opinion of the prospects and their fit with the team, I'll give the draft a B.

Iamcanadian
04-28-2008, 05:22 PM
Our offense completely depends on Smith's performance, a 3rd round talent who lacks breakaway speed. But don't worry, we did draft another WR.
Our defense which was already the worst in the NFL and lost Rogers, Bryant, Bailey and Edwards got 1 possible replacement, a 3rd rounder who Millen paniced for and actually moved up for in round 2.

Wow. The offense completely depends on Kevin Smith. Are Roy Williams,Calvin Johnson,Furrey,McDonald not playing this year? Tatum Bell isn't going to split some carries in a zone blocking scheme?

----It is pretty obvious that Marinelli wants to pound the ball on the ground to open up the passing attack, so it is also obvious that to do that he needs a RB who will scare opponents enough that they will bring up extra help into the box opening up the passing lanes. It's a sound stratagy but again it requires a RB who can get the job done otherwise we are right back where we were last season trying to beat teams through the air with little or no running attack. Hence, realistically our season will for the most part rest in Smith's hands and I'm not sure yet that he is the answer and if he's not, it could be a very long season because I doubt Bell scares anybody.

Rogers was a loss. Everyone wanted him gone at the end of last year. I'm sure you did too. We got Bodden whos is much for physical than Bryant and Fluellen by trading Rogers. Bodden is an upgrade no doubt about it and Fluellen at least provides some sort of rotation with Redding/Darby. You really miss Boss Bailey and Kalimba Edwards.. And Millen did not move up for Dizon in Round 2. He may have reached for Dizon while not reaching for Kevin Smith,Fluellen and Avril, but he didn't trade up to get Dizon.

----Everybody says Bodden is an upgrade but he's never played in a zone defense so how do you know? OK, he didn't trade up for Dizon but I really think he reached to grab him in round 2 and I for one, don't expect him to start next season. IMO, he start out backing up Lenon and Lewis and we'll just have to see if he can develop into a starter. Fluellan will back up Redding but was that a position of need and our we so good that we can draft backups before we have all our starting positions settled.
Tell me what is Millen's plan, He tried a WCO, A spread offense and now a run first offense, doesn't he realize that each time you switch to a new scheme that your personnel on hand may not suit it and that it can take another 3 or 4 years before you can have the personnel on hand to run a new system. WHAT IS HIS PLAN because it just seems to me that he is jumping all over the board with no continuity at all. But I gfuess that explains his 31-81 record for the last 7 years.

Iamcanadian
04-28-2008, 05:26 PM
Jamal Lewis came into the league as a 4.45 40 runner when he was drafted and he can still turn it on when he breaks loose. Jerry Rice ran a 4.40 40 at the combine according to Gil Brandt who timed him. Emmitt Smith ran a 4.60 but is one of the very few slow RB's to ever start in the NFL and he had 1st round talent while Smith is a 3rd rounder. Chris Brown is a solid 4.50 40 runner so tell me again that Kevin Smith is a sure thing with his 4.60 40 time.

Nobody is a sure thing. I likes Smiths fit in the Zone blocking scheme though, his instincts, his vision, his production, he can catch the ball and he can block. He had the second best three cone drill, so he can cut and make a decision.


Fluellan is a 1 gap penetrating DT who plays the same position as Redding in a Cover 2 defense and I seriously doubt he beats out Redding. Bodden has never played for a zone defensive team so it isn't a sure thing at all that he will make an immediate impact and be a starter. Kelly is old and will probably play nickle and help teach the other CB how to play zone defense. He couldn't hold his starting position with Tampa Bay last year and I doubt he starts for us unless injuries intervene..

I agree Fluellen will be an Undertackle unless he can bulk up. But Cody is terrible. If Fluellen is better than Cody, then we have gotten better. Two Undertackles on 3rd down wouldn't be a bad thing. All I expect out of Fluellen is a decent rotation for once.

Bodden has never played zone, which is a good thing. If he can excel in man coverage, him being tough and physical too, means zone should be no problem. Bryant didn't fit. He was too small and not physical enough. Kelly should at least compete to start. I don't expect much out of Wilson and Fisher is the nickel.

Yeah, Detroit fans have been saying that for 7 years now and the results are a 31-81 record over that time. With all the previous failures of Millen as a drafter, you would have to have pretty thick rose coloured glasses to think he struck it rich here or haven't you noticed the poor job he's done.

Your relying to much on the past for this draft grade I think. If the Colts took Dizon or Kevin Smith, you're perception of them would change. Just because Millen pick them does not put some curse on them to fail. This draft has more Marinelli influence than Millen IMO.

Avril was drafted to play DE for us not LB, there is absolutely no way he can play LB for a Cover 2 team.

Agreed, Avril is a DE 3rd down situational pass rusher.

I'll tell you why Millen didn't draft Albert because there is a hint of risk with Albert even though his ceiling potential is through the roof. Millen has had just too many draft failures to take ANY risk even though the rewards for drafting Albert could have been huge. Instead he played it safe and took Cherilius, a far lessor natural talent who will likely be an OK RT for a decade but leaves us with Backus as our LT who is really inadequate for the position. The same with Mendenhall, he only started for 1 year in college which makes him a huge risk to flop but if Millen could actually assess talent he might have been able to decide how good Mendenhall might become, he can't so again he just played it safe.

Good I'm glad he played it safe. 50 more games at tackle for Cherilus over Albert makes me feel safer with the pick. We should have done that for years, especially when Millen was knew and had to get his feet wet as a GM.

Your claim that this draft "helped us a lot" is based on what, a belief that Millen got it right after 7 years of failures. You go on believing it but I don't, if anything his drafting gets worse every year and I have 7 years to back up my claim, you have only his 31-81 record to back up yours.

I don't know how this is worse than Mike Williams,Cody,Stanely Wilson. Again your relying on past failures to dictate your perception of the future. Right now nobody knows, but based on my opinion of the prospects and their fit with the team, I'll give the draft a B.

I guess the season will decide it not our discussions but on the other hand you may be quite too fast to ignore Millen's past record, we just have to wait to see how it all plays out but I'm not holding my breath expecting some miracle from this draft.

Prowler
04-28-2008, 06:08 PM
by your logic if we're judging by past records then the lions might as well not exist. you can't expect to bash the lions draft with false information and not piss a few people off. this was a marinelli draft not a millen draft. the thing that matters most in the nfl is not really the players, its the scheme. plug any player into a system that isn't suited to them and they will suck. then again plug the correct types of player into the right system and they will thrive like furrey. we got great scheme players. i know this because the coaching staff and general management for the detroit lions drafted them. these are the players they wanted and they have outstanding production in their roles. we'll see how they translate into the pro game but i'm optimistic. also if you want the link http://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker#tab:dt-by-team|team-det i don't believe it but the nfl.com 'experts' say avril "good chance he'll play linebacker in Detroit." i don't believe it, and prefer him as a 3rd down rusher but its still there.
i don't know how they do things in canada but i believe that the players play for the fans in their city/state/and across the world. they put on the uniform to represent Detroit to the rest of the league. the least we can do is have a little optimism that in between their greed for new contracts and love of personal stats that they might remember it. they definately won't remember it with their own fans bashing them all the time. fans support their team even when they question it.
if you'd like i'll start.
its a good thing the packers keep drafting more wide receivers, they're going to need it when we keep putting 40 points on the board every week. we have the best qb in the division, the best set of wrs, and one of the best college running backs of all time. heck we even picked up a right tackle that i'm sure a dozen other teams would have loved to have grabbed so they didn't have to end up reaching for 4th round talented tackles.

SINCE1978
04-28-2008, 06:13 PM
Why is every person downing Kevin Smith and his speed? Did any of you even play football? It's one thing to have strong opinions it's yet another to strictly say wrong things. A 40 yard dash is great as a measurable if there are 25 yard breakaway runs and a guy is getting caught from behind (let's hope these scenarios happen to our man Smith) A 4.35 & a 4.5 are approx. 2 ft difference ... 2 ft! Where most of the "meat" happens in the running game is from the line of scrimmage to 10 yards down the field. You can throw out your 40 yard dash at these points.

Do you have vision ...? Check!
Are you patient with your blocks ...? Check!
Do you have the attitude/toughness to take guys on...? Check! (on his website he claimed to be the best RB in this class, love is cockiness)

Welcome to the D Mr. Smith you enbody ALL of these traits and we look forward to your production as a Lion. If you are not the next no. 20 that's cool, there will never be another Barry Sanders. Just be the best you and BRING IT!

SINCE1978
04-28-2008, 06:17 PM
----Let's see, Millen has the worst draft record over the last 7 seasons in the entire NFL which has produced a 31-81 record(also thje worst record over the last 7 years in the NFL). He appears to me to be trying to avoid any risk when drafting no matter how much potential a prospect has. IMO, he has absolutely no idea on draft day because to put it mildly, he cannot assess talent so he plays it as safe as he can. That's why he traded back for Cherilius over Albert, just too scary for Millen to even consider. Hence he has no plan on which he can rebuild the Lions. He consistantly switches coaches and brings in other coaches who play completely diffent systems which forces the new HC to start all over again with personnel that suits his new schemes.
The man is a joke at the draft table and the laughing stock of the NFL and you expect me to give him a rating higher than a "F", I don't think so. When he produces a winner, I'll be glad to stop being critical but I seriouisly doubt either of us will ever see it.


You should be an Argonots fan ... they're winners.

Brodeur
04-28-2008, 06:20 PM
So basically IAC, you're just giving it an F because Matt Millen made the picks?

DisgruntledLionFan#54
04-28-2008, 06:26 PM
Smith ran a 4.5 and 4.57 at the combine, 4.4 at his pro day. Still rather have him at 4.4-4.5 with his production than Charles at 4.35-4.45 and his production.

Ray Rice ran faster at the combine, but he also weighs 20 lbs. less than KS. Rice ran a 4.55 before the combine.

Iamcanadian
04-28-2008, 07:59 PM
Why is every person downing Kevin Smith and his speed? Did any of you even play football? It's one thing to have strong opinions it's yet another to strictly say wrong things. A 40 yard dash is great as a measurable if there are 25 yard breakaway runs and a guy is getting caught from behind (let's hope these scenarios happen to our man Smith) A 4.35 & a 4.5 are approx. 2 ft difference ... 2 ft! Where most of the "meat" happens in the running game is from the line of scrimmage to 10 yards down the field. You can throw out your 40 yard dash at these points.

Do you have vision ...? Check!
Are you patient with your blocks ...? Check!
Do you have the attitude/toughness to take guys on...? Check! (on his website he claimed to be the best RB in this class, love is cockiness)

Welcome to the D Mr. Smith you enbody ALL of these traits and we look forward to your production as a Lion. If you are not the next no. 20 that's cool, there will never be another Barry Sanders. Just be the best you and BRING IT!

Sorry but I've followed the draft as a draftnik for 55 years and there have been less than a handfull of RB's who ran as slow as Smith at the combine and had any success in the NFL. 4.50 is pretty well the cutoff point for a successful NFL RB. Have there been exceptions, yes, Emmitt Smith was an exception but he showed enough other qualities to be a 1st rounder, Kevin obviously didn't or he doesn't last to round 3. As for throwing out the 40 yard dash as worthless for a RB well every NFL scout and GM disagrees with you and I'll take their opinion over yours any day of the week.
As you said 'it's one thing to have strong opinions it's yet another to strictly say wrong things", IMO, you have absolutely nothing to back up your claim.

Iamcanadian
04-28-2008, 08:14 PM
Smith ran a 4.5 and 4.57 at the combine, 4.4 at his pro day. Still rather have him at 4.4-4.5 with his production than Charles at 4.35-4.45 and his production.

Ray Rice ran faster at the combine, but he also weighs 20 lbs. less than KS. Rice ran a 4.55 before the combine.

Smith ran a 4.60 at the combine, your using his unoffical timing. He ran a 4.47 and a 4.49 at his pro day but once a player runs at the combine, that is the time which every pro scout and GM will use as it is the track where every other prospect ran on, not some super fast track at your own college. Teams consider him a 4.60 RB and that is why he didn't get touched before round 3 as they are all well aware of what the cutoff point is for becoming a successful RB and Smith didn't come up to snuff.
I like the kid but he's slow by NFL standards and that makes his chances iffy at best. We'll know soon enough if he can cut it and is an exception to the rule.

As for Rice, he ran a 4.44 40 on the same track as Smith at the combine and that is why he was a 2nd rounder and Smith was a 3rd rounder.

Iamcanadian
04-28-2008, 08:40 PM
So basically IAC, you're just giving it an F because Matt Millen made the picks?

Well I've got Millen 7 year team record and I've got his 7 year draft record which produced the team record so yes, I'll only give him an 'F' until he shows me he actually can produce a great draft. He has had 7 tries so I'm not foolish enough to think he suddenly learned how to assess talent.
I also believe that he has changed his drafting ways in a sense. He no longer can afford another flop in round 1, even Ford might get rid of him then, this has led to a practice of playing it safe which may produce less flops but hardly gets you top end players we desperately need. Cherilius is a solid RT prospect who will be an above average RT for the next decade. He's nothing really special but is nevertheless safe. Albert has a real shot at being special. Even though he never played LT in college, pro scouts and GM's throughout the NFL saw a prospect who has the feet to become a top LT. If he had played LT with the talent scouts saw in him, he would have been a top 10 pick or possibly higher. Why didn't he play LT in college, well, he played behind D'Brickshaw Ferguson for a couple of years, a top 5 pick of the New York Jets and he was penciled in to start this year at LT. However he got injured and by the time he was ready to play for Virginia, they had worked in another LT and the coaches thought the OL was better off with him staying at OG rather than bring in another player to play OG and bench the guy who impressed them while Albert was sidelined. That makes him a higher risk than Cherilius but the reward if he is successful will leave Cherilius in the dust. His ceiling is off the charts compared to Cherilius. Better yet, he's got LT abilities which could have meant switching Backus to RT where he would be a real star vs being only an average LT. Now we basically have 2 RT's starting for us which will always limit significantly our passing game.
I see nothing that indicates to me that Millen has a clue how to build a winner, absolutely nothing and I'm not going to get excited about a draft which looks rather mundane to me.

DisgruntledLionFan#54
04-28-2008, 08:48 PM
Pretty sure there are no official times. Teams use the whatever numbers they want.

From Wiki, which would make sense:


National Scouting, which runs the combine, provides three times per run, two fully hand-held and one stopped electronically. Each player may run twice, thereby yielding a potential six times. National Scouting provides all six of these times to NFL teams. Some teams use the best electronic time. Some teams throw out the fastest and slowest and average the rest. Some teams use the best time provided. And some teams use a time provided by their own scout on site.

Iamcanadian
04-28-2008, 09:00 PM
by your logic if we're judging by past records then the lions might as well not exist. you can't expect to bash the lions draft with false information and not piss a few people off. this was a marinelli draft not a millen draft. the thing that matters most in the nfl is not really the players, its the scheme. plug any player into a system that isn't suited to them and they will suck. then again plug the correct types of player into the right system and they will thrive like furrey. we got great scheme players. i know this because the coaching staff and general management for the detroit lions drafted them. these are the players they wanted and they have outstanding production in their roles. we'll see how they translate into the pro game but i'm optimistic. also if you want the link http://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker#tab:dt-by-team|team-det i don't believe it but the nfl.com 'experts' say avril "good chance he'll play linebacker in Detroit." i don't believe it, and prefer him as a 3rd down rusher but its still there.
i don't know how they do things in canada but i believe that the players play for the fans in their city/state/and across the world. they put on the uniform to represent Detroit to the rest of the league. the least we can do is have a little optimism that in between their greed for new contracts and love of personal stats that they might remember it. they definately won't remember it with their own fans bashing them all the time. fans support their team even when they question it.
if you'd like i'll start.
its a good thing the packers keep drafting more wide receivers, they're going to need it when we keep putting 40 points on the board every week. we have the best qb in the division, the best set of wrs, and one of the best college running backs of all time. heck we even picked up a right tackle that i'm sure a dozen other teams would have loved to have grabbed so they didn't have to end up reaching for 4th round talented tackles.

Normally I would agree that you support your team through thick and thin but after 50+ years of general failure, I think it is quite reasonable to question the team's management. Then there is Millen's 7 years and Ford's refusal to fire him 'because he cannot find any reason for doing it'. I happen to think Detroit fans deserve better than that and throughout pro football and maybe all pro sports, Ford is recognized as one of the poorest owners in the history of the game and that covers quite a few other rotten owners.
Before Millen is fired, people will be talking about him for the next 50 years as an example of a GM who set all the records for total futility. I doubt any other GM will ever match his overall record for losing. I once saw another team's GM asked if he thought anybody will ever break Millen's losing records and you know what he said, it's going to be impossible to break because no other owner would ever allow a GM with Millen's record, to keep his job long enough to ever approach it. Pretty sad if you ask me and plenty of reason to be critical of the Lions. You and a few others can bury your head in the sand pretending everything will be alright in time but at some point even the most die heart fan has to take a close look and see Millen for what he is, the worst GM to ever manage a pro football team, so if you asking me to be patient, your talking to the wrong person, I'm 64 and in truth I'll probably never see Detroit in a Super Bowl and yes, after being a fan for 25 years, I'm p-ssed off about it.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
04-29-2008, 09:22 AM
Normally I would agree that you support your team through thick and thin but after 50+ years of general failure, I think it is quite reasonable to question the team's management. Then there is Millen's 7 years and Ford's refusal to fire him 'because he cannot find any reason for doing it'. I happen to think Detroit fans deserve better than that and throughout pro football and maybe all pro sports, Ford is recognized as one of the poorest owners in the history of the game and that covers quite a few other rotten owners.
Before Millen is fired, people will be talking about him for the next 50 years as an example of a GM who set all the records for total futility. I doubt any other GM will ever match his overall record for losing. I once saw another team's GM asked if he thought anybody will ever break Millen's losing records and you know what he said, it's going to be impossible to break because no other owner would ever allow a GM with Millen's record, to keep his job long enough to ever approach it. Pretty sad if you ask me and plenty of reason to be critical of the Lions. You and a few others can bury your head in the sand pretending everything will be alright in time but at some point even the most die heart fan has to take a close look and see Millen for what he is, the worst GM to ever manage a pro football team, so if you asking me to be patient, your talking to the wrong person, I'm 64 and in truth I'll probably never see Detroit in a Super Bowl and yes, after being a fan for 25 years, I'm p-ssed off about it.

Millen has been awful. There is no disputing that. But this draft was completely different than the usual Millen drafts. It was not flashy and we went after NEEDS. Past failures of Millen have nothing to do with the skillsets of Cherilus,Dizon,Smith,Fluellen,Avril. Taking Joey Harrington has nothing to do with Drew Stanton either.

In my opinion, the draft is a crap shoot for the most part. You can fill needs which is what we finally did this year and as long as you don't go three WR in a row and have good coaches, you should be alright. Its really up to the coaches and players to do the rest. Yes Millen picked them but for some of these picks there is no way to know. Pioli is a genius because of Tom Brady. Polian is a genius because of Peyton Manning. We drafted for need and got guys who Marinelli/Millen believe fit our system. Look the Patriots took Mayo and the Jags took Harvey. I gurantee both of those guys were on the top of Millens board too. Millen and Pioli were on the same page this year. But ones an idiot because out of the pool left, he took a player that fills a need.

woodnick
04-29-2008, 01:01 PM
Rd 1 - #17(17) Gosder Cherilus (OT) BC

I give this a C+, Gosder flashes the potential to be a dominant RT, as he was during his Junior yr. at BC. He really struggled on his move to LT last yr. hopefully it wasnt their new ZBS that he struggled in so keep your fingers crossed. That beeing said he should be a decent RT and even though Albert flashes the potential of being a LT it is a risk and we cant really afford that. IMO what we needed was a LT and to move Backus because he struggles way to much at LT and even though he's not the best run blocker he should fit in nicely as a RT in the new ZBS, we lost the last proven one to Chicago one pick ahead of us and that cant be a surprise, so IMO we really should've looked into trading up to Carolina for him which I bet they would've done based on their draft. That beeing said once we traded down, which was pretty decent because it made getting Smith much easier, IMO we should've been open to trading down again, especially if the Carolina offer presented itself because another Delhome injury and that could be Michael Oher or Lauranitis. WE then could've picked up Collins or Nicks who both will be decent at RT, and Collins flashes the potential to slide over to LT which is more than Gosder.

Rd 2 - #14(45) Jordon Dizon (OLB) Colorado

Ooh, to be nice I'll give this pick a C-. I'm not a fan of his, but its hard to argue with what he did last year. He's undersized to play MLB and doesnt have the best speed to offset that issue. He does have great instincts and is a solid form tackler, but I just see a smaller version of Teddy Lehman here. If Ernie misses any time than he should be able to fill in adequately, but at best I see him as a special teams stud. As a 2nd round pick we NEEDED a starter for our D, Between this and Gosder I think Millen and Maranelli ended up scrambling because their top choices were gone, so yeah I think they paniced a little. IMO there were too many other players on the board that would have been better, but time will tell.

Rd 3 - #1(64) Kevin Smith (RB) C Florida

I give this an A-, not gonna lie, I like Smith a lot. the mimnus is for the combo questions of his speed/level of competition. Smith's speed isn't really that bad, the problem is that his 4.45 ish speed isn't that evident in pads, but I contribute that to his height and fluidity, he just looks like he's coasting out there but still you dont see many people catch him from behind. Competition wise yeah he wasn't in a BCs conference but he went for 247 yds against NC state & 149 aganist Texas. The really negative game of his was against south Florida where he only got 55 yrds against in in state rival.

Rd 3 - #24(87) Andre Fluellen (DT) Florida St

I give Fluellen a C, but to be hnest this is the most difficult pick to grade for me. This guys has flashed some amazing ability, especially as a sophomore and in his workouts, but he hasn't translated that into better production. With Dre Moore and Red Bryant still on the board and Dre going to Tampa I gotta say that in my eyes Fluellen will be compared to Dre for years to come and we'll see who produces better. Also I'm worried about Fluellen's durability which could be a HUGE issue for him with all the pounding a DT takes in the league.

Rd 3 - #29(92) Cliff Avril (DE) Purdue

This is another A- for me, love the fact that they went and got him, but I wonder if he'll be able to produce for us. That beeing said I love his speed on the corner, something we've lacked for a while. I think he'd be better as a rush linebacker in a 3-4, but I really think we needed his speed so I'm glad we got great value for him. How good would he've been if he was a DE for all 4 yrs at Purdue?

Rd 5 - #1(136) Kenneth Moore (WR) W Forest

We'll go C+ here, another Production guy who was also pretty decent as a RS. He's supposed to be very fluid as a route runner as is a utitlity guy somewhat. I think it just reached a point where Detroit wanted a 5th Wr/RS and he was one of the last ones available, but he did set records in the ACC for single season receptions so it's hard to argue with that, but I wonder if we would have been better served getting Dorien Bryant in the 7th or as an UDFA.

Rd 5 - #11(146) Jerome Felton (FB) Furman

C-, I really like his ability to be a short yardage guy, but now that we are going to be a more run orientated guy why not draft the best pure FB? Maybe they thought this guy was, but he's not a great run blocker and with Owen I'm gonna break your face mask Schmidt still on the board I wonder who'll be a better guy at opening up the wholes? I dont think that Felton will have any Lions fans forget about Cory Schlesenger any time soon. So this picked just seemed like a big reach to me.

Rd 7 - #9(216) Landon Cohen (DT) Ohio

D, this guy is supposed to accel at penetration, yeah Wingboy make your joke, but of course he will as a quick DT in the MAC. his 276 lb DT a** is gonna get run over in the NFL and he's not quick enough to be a DE, but maybe they think he'll be the run-stopper to Avril's pass rusher in a DE rotation, but I thought we already had that in IAF. He wont make our team, but it's a 7th round pick so maybe Detroit didnt care.

Rd 7 - #11(218) Caleb Campbell (S) Army

We'll go D+. He's too slow for a S, too small for a LB. So what does that usually mean? usually it means that an NFL team will bulk him up for a couple of years while he's contributing on special teams and then play him at WLB, but not the Lions they probably go the some route but want to turn him into a SLB? I just don't know, but I think with Josh Barret and his 4.35 still on the board why not go there, or since he's gonna be a LB, why not go Henderson or Leman?

All in all I'll give this class a C+, thank you Smith for saving it. I really like the moves Detroit made to assure they got their guys in Smith and Avril, but I really question why they didnt go after Chris Williams and try to trade to 13 which likely would have only cost them a swap of our 3rd form Cleveland to their 4th. Carolina probably would've done this because it would have given them more ammo to move up to 19 for Otah, which they obviously had planned to do prior to the draft, and it still would've enabled us to get Dre Moore and possible Fluellen at 109. additionally this wouldn't have had much of an impact moving up for Avril because we would've had our same picks that we used to move up.

Another thing that I would've liked more would have been to see the Lions adress the CB position. I know that Bodden and kelly should be upgrades, but Kelly is definately not a long term solution so why not at least a UDFA pick up of Castille or Zenon?

Finally, my last thought with Dizon. He does flash some good ability but why not a guy like Wheeler or Goff in a later rd? both Goff and Wheeler were pretty productive in BCS leagues and both would offer more position flexibility with the ability to turn into a SLB in case we are in great position to draft Maulanga or Lauranitis next year? Hopefully Dizon will fix the need of MLB and make this a mute argument, but I dont think he will nor do I think he'll be able to play SLB because his weekness is taking on blockers, which is essential for a SLB.

A hindsight draft, assuming they draft at the same spots they choose at, for me would've been:

1) Cherilus
2) Groves
3)K. Smith, Tyvon Branch, Dre Moore
5)Jonathon Goff, Kellen Davis
7)Peyton Hillis, Joshua Barrett

Priority UDFA Dorien Bryant and Erin Henderson

DisgruntledLionFan#54
04-29-2008, 02:08 PM
Anyone catch Hondo's story? Interesting takes from the scouts on Dizon and Avril. Just goes to show that teams have completely different views on players than the draft pundits.

http://www.spartannation.com/

woodnick
04-29-2008, 02:16 PM
So i was just reading Gill Brandt's notes on pro days, specifically he players we got and he has it down that Dizon only had 12 reps on the bench press, thats right 12. Thats a low enough number to make QBs draft stock drop, even though QBs typically dont lift for nfl personel. On the other hand Felton had 30 reps, pretty darn good so my Dizon grade ust dropped by a mark and my Felton grade is rising by a mark.

woodnick
04-29-2008, 02:24 PM
Anyone catch Hondo's story? Interesting takes from the scouts on Dizon and Avril. Just goes to show that teams have completely different views on players than the draft pundits.

http://www.spartannation.com/


Nice article, the funniest thing about it is that the scouts hated the Avril pick and loved almost every other one and most Lions fans loved the Avril pick the most. Just shows you the difference in perception between NFL guys and fans.

DisgruntledLionFan#54
04-29-2008, 02:36 PM
So i was just reading Gill Brandt's notes on pro days, specifically he players we got and he has it down that Dizon only had 12 reps on the bench press, thats right 12. Thats a low enough number to make QBs draft stock drop, even though QBs typically dont lift for nfl personel. On the other hand Felton had 30 reps, pretty darn good so my Dizon grade ust dropped by a mark and my Felton grade is rising by a mark.


I think he did 21 at the combine, but it's hard to find the numbers.

Dizon is quoted as saying he tried a different technique at his Pro Day and it failed miserably.

TacticaLion
05-03-2008, 06:16 PM
My thoughts from a different thread:

Hey... I was without internet for the last few weeks (moving) and didn't get to comment about the draft. Here goes:

I was a bit surprised with our 1st round pick... until I read the scouting reports. First of all, it was worst case scenario, but Millen made the best of it. Instead of settling for a RB, he moved down and took a true, hard working RT. Cherilus is a leader and has a ton of ability and finishes the OLine off (without Foster). Instead of taking Baker, the Falcons might've taken Cherilus if he was available... I'm glad the Lions made the decision.

Dizon might have been a reach (Mayo was a reach for Detroit at 15 but was a great pick for the Pats at 10, right?)... but he's a reach I'm glad they took. Dizon is an incredible player and, if he was 2" taller and weighed 15 LBs more, would've been a fix for round 1. Great speed, instincts and hitting with top-notch leadership and a non-stop motor... he'll be our starting MLBer for years to come. Sims... Dizon... it'll be fun to watch.

Smith was an outstanding pick... nothing more needs to be said there.

With our 2nd 3rd round pick, I was shouting "Cliff Avril" and gripping the remote... so you can imagine how happy I was when they traded back into round 3 and grabbed him. Flu and Avril will start as rotation players and could eventually take over. Great picks.

Moore was drafted to be our KR/PR, and I'm glad we took SOMEONE to fill that role. Felton could show to be a steal over time and Campbell will, most likely, make the roster (versatility).

All in all, I give the draft a B+. We didn't reach for a position that we didn't need and didn't take a player with glaring character concerns. Take a look at the scouting reports... most players are "hard workers with top intangibles", which will get them far. AND! AND! We have Roy.

I'm excited for '08!

Iamcanadian
05-04-2008, 07:03 AM
The so called experts have been loving Matt Millen's drafts since year one giving him an A+ to no worse than a B+. Guess what they were all wrong. We haven't had better than a C- draft for seven years and counting. Matt Millen cannot assess talent, that is a PROVEN fact and his concept on how to build the Lions could be better handled by a high school student.
This draft is no different. Cherilius was the safe pick but hardly the best OT we could have obtained. Millen is simply playing it safe and taking no risks, sounds good until you realize that it is a suicide way to build a franchise with very little opportunity to strike it rich using that method. Sure we get a starter or 2 out of the draft but don't expect any All Pros, just a couple of average players who won't be classified as flops but won't tear up the league either.
Dizon was a reach IMO, yes he'll start at some point, who else do we have? Will he be a star or does he even have the potential to be a star, no way.
Then there is Smith, I like the guy but will he be anything more than an average NFL RB, no, so why didn't we fill the RB position in FA. Well, we have no cap space to sign a stud so Millen had no choice but to draft a RB.
All this talk about Millen at least drafting to meet needs is rather ridiculous if you ask me, what other choice does he have now that he has absolutely no cap space to fill any positions where we need help. He's used up all the flexibility he once had with ridiculous contracts to average players and now he must sink or swim through the draft, G-D help us!!!!

TacticaLion
05-04-2008, 05:50 PM
The so called experts have been loving Matt Millen's drafts since year one giving him an A+ to no worse than a B+. Guess what they were all wrong. We haven't had better than a C- draft for seven years and counting. Matt Millen cannot assess talent, that is a PROVEN fact and his concept on how to build the Lions could be better handled by a high school student.
This draft is no different. Cherilius was the safe pick but hardly the best OT we could have obtained. Millen is simply playing it safe and taking no risks, sounds good until you realize that it is a suicide way to build a franchise with very little opportunity to strike it rich using that method. Sure we get a starter or 2 out of the draft but don't expect any All Pros, just a couple of average players who won't be classified as flops but won't tear up the league either.
Dizon was a reach IMO, yes he'll start at some point, who else do we have? Will he be a star or does he even have the potential to be a star, no way.
Then there is Smith, I like the guy but will he be anything more than an average NFL RB, no, so why didn't we fill the RB position in FA. Well, we have no cap space to sign a stud so Millen had no choice but to draft a RB.
All this talk about Millen at least drafting to meet needs is rather ridiculous if you ask me, what other choice does he have now that he has absolutely no cap space to fill any positions where we need help. He's used up all the flexibility he once had with ridiculous contracts to average players and now he must sink or swim through the draft, G-D help us!!!!
Hey, IAC... do me a favor? Come the 2008 NFL season, stay off the ******* band wagon, OK? You did the same thing last year... bashed the decisions, insulted the organization, made outrageous claims... yet, when the team started to win, you changed sides. This time, just stay where you are.

Deal?