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View Full Version : I hate the Donnie Avery Pick


tfry
04-28-2008, 01:14 PM
I was really looking forward to the Rams draft this year and it started off excellent with Chris Long. However, after that there wasn't much to be excited about.

We had one of the largest reaches in the draft grabbing Donnie Avery with the 33rd overall. With Thomas, Jackson, and Sweed still on the board I just don't get it. I realize we need a slot receiver, but wouldn't bringing in the top receiver (Thomas) to challenge Drew Bennett be a better option? Plus Torry Holt is 32 and had an injury plagued '07. If Holt goes down this year we will be looking at Bennett, Avery, and Reche Cauldwell. Personally, I would have liked to see us trade our second rounder for Lito Sheppard had I known we were going to waste it on a slot receiver.

I also didn't like the Burton pick out of Kentucky. The guy can't stay healthy at all and doesn't seem to have much upside in my opinion.

If Linehan is an offensive guru, he sure hasn't shown it. I'm curious what you guys think of the Avery pick and how you see it working out for the Rams. We had a lot of holes to fill this year and I think we addressed most, but our skill positions on offense were not addressed in my opinion.

princefielder28
04-28-2008, 01:16 PM
I really like the Avery pick. He is a guy that can really stretch the field and has big play potential. I think he'll make a nice impact this year and going forward into the future.

fenikz
04-28-2008, 01:19 PM
This probably doesn't deserve its own thread, and your better off posting the Rams team forum

As for the pick a lot of people thought Avery would go early 2nd, hi s agility is 2nd to none, but i do fell that Thomas, Sweed, & Jackson would of all be better picks

Babylon
04-28-2008, 02:11 PM
In this draft i dont think you can complain too much about what order any of the WRs went although i wouldnt have taken him. Not being a Marc Bulger fan i probably would've gone for Brian Brohm.

thebow305
04-28-2008, 03:37 PM
I still can't believe they picked him over Devin Thomas and DeSean Jackson, who is the same type of player, just better.

Staubach12
04-28-2008, 03:38 PM
This is thread worthy...

Anyway, I agree. Better options out there.

SeanTaylorRIP
04-28-2008, 03:38 PM
Devin Thomas seemed to be a perfect pick for them, big, strong, and fast. Avery no doubt is a good ball player and will fit in nicely but I think in Thomas they could have had a #2 WR, as well as a kick returner.

SchizophrenicBatman
04-28-2008, 03:44 PM
Welcome to the ineptitude that is Tony Softli

Paranoidmoonduck
04-28-2008, 04:53 PM
As far as small and quick receivers with return skills go in this draft, I don't think any were preferably over Avery. Whether the Rams could have used a bigger body out wide is up for debate, but I think Avery was a fine pick and not particularly much of a reach.

Thread Killer
04-28-2008, 05:16 PM
Have to consider the offense. Not all of the top rated guys fit the new scheme.

The Rams are going back to what they had under Martz during the GSOT days. Speedy guys that can change directions well and are smart enough to comprehend a huge playbook.

Now considering that the team went strong on high character types with good college production, too, the pickings got quite a bit slim.

Michigan
04-28-2008, 05:19 PM
Avery (IMO) is every bit as dangerous and explosive as both the Jacksons. The Rams obviously saw something in Avery that made him stand out over the other slot guys (probably an extra 20 lbs), so I can't criticize the pick. Great player for the role he's gonna be put in.

toonsterwu
04-28-2008, 05:45 PM
Don't hate the pick. Embrace it. It was the right move.

I'll say it again, it was not a reach. There were teams that would've snapped him up had he fallen. He wasn't making it out of, say, the mid-2nd.

He fits Al Saunders. There were late rumors suggesting that Linehan still wanted big WR's, which threw me a bit, but it was clear this was a get players to fit Al's offense draft, and not get players for Scott's offense draft. That's a big difference.

Is Avery a bit raw? Sure, but he is a dynamic player who has a better frame than Desean Jackson. Limas Sweed doesn't fit the offense. Devin Thomas might, but Donnie Avery is a better fit, and both have their concerns.

I love the Keenan Burton pick. The injuries weren't anything that he could control, if I recall. He's got good speed, size, plays quick. I'm a huge fan of Burton. Had he been healthy, he would've gone much higher, perhaps in that 2nd round mix.

nfrillman
04-28-2008, 05:58 PM
FROM RAMS FORUM:

Everyone is acting like the Rams passed on a Calvin Johnson type WR and took Avery. Sure there were "draftnik" rankings we have all seen throughout the offseason, but the bottom line is that the top 10-15 WR's all graded out very closely. You have to have a trade partner to trade down, and we don't know what the Rams knew about other teams boards. Ten WR's went in the 2nd round, so the chances are pretty good that if they did trade down they could have missed out on their guy. People need to realize that these pre-draft rankings are opinions and far from etched in stone fact. The WR position this year was especially jumbled. Just look at the first WR's that were taken in comparison to Scott's rankings and a Foxsports guy.

# WR Taken- ranks Scotts, Foxsport's Peter Fiutak,
1. Donnie Avery- ranked 8, 13
2. Devin Thomas- ranked 1, 3
3. Jordy Nelson- ranked 6, 4
4. James Hardy- ranked 4, 2
5. Eddie Royal- ranked 13, 14
6. Jerome Simpson- ranked 12, 15
7. Desean Jackson- ranked 3, 8
8. Malcolm Kelly- ranked 7, 1
9. Limas Sweed- ranked 2, 7
10. Dexter Jackson- ranked 15, 10

There were other draft experts who were waaaay off on how the WR's actually went, like Mayock, Kiper, and McShay. Can you see any rhyme or reason to this order when looking at rankings. It's safe to say that NFL teams were looking at these WR's a bit differently than the draftniks.

Also, consider the "weaknesses" of the top WR's. Would you rather deal with James Hardy rawness, lack of speed and quickness, and character issues; Jordy Nelson's lack of speed, Desean Jackson's miniture size which basically means he will always be a slot guy; Limas Sweed's drops and lack of quickness and speed; Mario Manningham's character issues and lack of speed; Malcolm Kelly's lack of speed. Why not take a 5'11" 195 lbs guy, who ran a sub-4.3 40 at Pro-day, ran a 3-cone drill of 6.30 at Pro-day (the best 3-cone time from the combine was 6.57. Avery's 6.30 is also the faster than any 3-cone time in combine history I think) On top of this, his main weakness is route running, which is a knock on almost every rookie WR. I am pretty sure Torry Holt can show him some pointers on route running. I don't know how someone can be mad about getting an absolute burner who is also possibly the quickest player the combine has ever seen.

Look at this link, Avery wasn't going to stay on the board very long.
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=403984

LonghornsLegend
04-28-2008, 06:16 PM
^That Link doesn't work...But I still liked the pick, these WR were so tighly grouped that depending on who was picking first and what they wanted, thats who would come off the board first...Avery was one of the few WR's I really wanted, and I wouldn't of minded taking him either, he has alot of upside and he's not just limited to a slot role...Let's not act like Thomas was a sure thing by any means, none of these guys are.

nfrillman
04-28-2008, 07:20 PM
^That Link doesn't work...But I still liked the pick, these WR were so tighly grouped that depending on who was picking first and what they wanted, thats who would come off the board first...Avery was one of the few WR's I really wanted, and I wouldn't of minded taking him either, he has alot of upside and he's not just limited to a slot role...Let's not act like Thomas was a sure thing by any means, none of these guys are.

Thanks, I fixed it.

NGSeiler
04-29-2008, 01:50 AM
According to Jim Thomas of the St. Louis Post Dispatch:

As for Avery, many observers felt he went a round early. But the Rams didn't
think so. In fact, they were told through league contacts that eight to 10
teams had Avery rated as the No. 1 prospect at his position in a flawed wide
receiver corps. Because of injury and off-field concerns, the Rams had lower
grades on several more well-known receivers.

The Rams wanted a speed receiver who could stretch the field, but they also put a strong emphasis on character and college production. That alone eliminates many of the top names of the receiver class. toonster hit the nose on the head - this guy is a great fit for the offensive system, and I think if he refines his route running and strengthens his ability to fight the jam at the line, you're looking at a guy who could become a legitimate starting receiver.

As for the value aspect, I don't think he was a reach there. Prior to the draft, there were a couple of reports that indicated Avery could be a late first early second round guy. Looking at the Thomas tidbit above, that's just another to add to the pile of things to think about. But also, when I look at the second round, I see teams taking guys that they feel are the best fit for what they want to do. And I'm just speculating here, but I think teams do that when they don't have significant differences in grades between these guys - there isn't a guy that is so far ahead of the other that you just have to take him. Instead, they're so tightly grouped that you take the guy who works best for what you want to do.

For the Rams, that's definitely Avery. I can't wait to see what this kid can do on turf in the Dome!

PossumBoy9
04-29-2008, 01:13 PM
The Avery pick doesn't really bother me. I'd have taken Tyrell Johnson, but now know I couldn't have got Dexter Jackson, the WR I wanted, at #65.

Passing on Red Bryant for Justin King is my least favorite move.

holt_bruce81
04-29-2008, 06:54 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=draftdishhoustonsaveryro&prov=tsn&type=lgns

When talking about the top wide receivers in the 2008 NFL draft, there has been much talk about the falling stock of both Michigan’s Mario Manningham and Oklahoma’s Malcolm Kelly. Meanwhile, Michigan’s Devin Thomas has been the biggest riser up draft boards.

One receiver who should be talked about more, however, is Houston’s Donnie Avery. Avery, viewed as somewhat of a raw receiver even after the ‘07 college football season ended, was once likely to be a third-round pick. Since then, however, his strong performances at the Senior Bowl—where he took coaching so well to improve his game throughout the week—at the Combine and in his personal workouts have caused teams to value him higher.

Avery’s value shot up even more when teams in their draft meetings could get a better look at his acceleration, speed and elite explosiveness on game film. Now, he should be one of the first speed receivers drafted, possibly as high as the late first round.

BTRams66
04-30-2008, 02:14 AM
I have no real problem with the selection of Avery as I did my own scouting of him a few weeks before the draft and highlighted him as a guy I though we should have taken.

In saying that I believe we did take him too early. I would say 10 picks to early. If the Rams couldn't trade down say 5 spots where he would have still been available they should have taken CB Brandon Flowers. The guy deserved to be a 1st rounder but a tenth of a second made him slip out. Believe me his on field play was fast enough to be a 1st rd CB. The reason why I am saying Flowers is because the team selected Justin King in rd 4. Sure it was a value pick but seriously he got hammered last year. Plus the Rams need Physical Corners not another Wade or Hill. Flowers is a great tackler and would have fitted into the Rams Backfield nicely complementing the speedy Hill on the other side. Plus the current DB's are poor tacklers and to me Flowers would have made more sense

nfrillman
04-30-2008, 02:16 PM
I have no real problem with the selection of Avery as I did my own scouting of him a few weeks before the draft and highlighted him as a guy I though we should have taken.

In saying that I believe we did take him too early. I would say 10 picks to early. If the Rams couldn't trade down say 5 spots where he would have still been available they should have taken CB Brandon Flowers. The guy deserved to be a 1st rounder but a tenth of a second made him slip out. Believe me his on field play was fast enough to be a 1st rd CB. The reason why I am saying Flowers is because the team selected Justin King in rd 4. Sure it was a value pick but seriously he got hammered last year. Plus the Rams need Physical Corners not another Wade or Hill. Flowers is a great tackler and would have fitted into the Rams Backfield nicely complementing the speedy Hill on the other side. Plus the current DB's are poor tacklers and to me Flowers would have made more sense

I think I would still like Avery over Flowers. The Rams CB situation is not as bad as some may think. I don't think another young CB would make a very big immediate impact. We already have Tye Hill, Ronald Bartell, and Jonathon Wade who are very young. Even Brown is pretty young, he is 27 or 28 I think. All three of those real young guys have a decent shot at developing into good-very good CB's. Unless we are getting a proven veteran, ala Lito Shephard, it makes no sense to use a high pick on another "future" CB. As it is, we have Hill and Brown starting, Bartell at nickel, and Wade and King as two great developmental type players.

619
04-30-2008, 02:30 PM
I think the Rams forced one in there with the Avery selection. I know they were looking receiver all the way with their second pick but if the value just isn't there they could have waited a round or two to potentially get a similar type of player (i.e. Mario Manningham).

brat316
04-30-2008, 02:50 PM
They forced it, everyone wants that next Hester. With Avery's speed they took a big reach I think.

no love
04-30-2008, 03:12 PM
If the Rams couldn't trade down say 5 spots where he would have still been available they should have taken CB Brandon Flowers. The guy deserved to be a 1st rounder but a tenth of a second made him slip out. Believe me his on field play was fast enough to be a 1st rd CB. The reason why I am saying Flowers is because the team selected Justin King in rd 4. Sure it was a value pick but seriously he got hammered last year. Plus the Rams need Physical Corners not another Wade or Hill. Flowers is a great tackler and would have fitted into the Rams Backfield nicely complementing the speedy Hill on the other side. Plus the current DB's are poor tacklers and to me Flowers would have made more sense

Excellent point about Flowers. I would also add that in the NFC west, with a lack of true speed WR's and more size/possession WRs like Battle, Fitz, Boldin, Engram it is important to have a guy that can redirect a WR early.

NGSeiler
05-01-2008, 12:39 AM
In saying that I believe we did take him too early. I would say 10 picks to early. If the Rams couldn't trade down say 5 spots where he would have still been available they should have taken CB Brandon Flowers. The guy deserved to be a 1st rounder but a tenth of a second made him slip out. Believe me his on field play was fast enough to be a 1st rd CB. The reason why I am saying Flowers is because the team selected Justin King in rd 4. Sure it was a value pick but seriously he got hammered last year. Plus the Rams need Physical Corners not another Wade or Hill. Flowers is a great tackler and would have fitted into the Rams Backfield nicely complementing the speedy Hill on the other side. Plus the current DB's are poor tacklers and to me Flowers would have made more sense

If we take Flowers there, then we're waiting until the third round to take a receiver. So who do you take at that point? It's clear the Rams wanted someone with deep speed, who was productive, but had no character concerns. Who is that guy in round three? It's not Bennett, Doucet, or Douglas. Reportedly the Rams were not crazy about Franklin. We've suddenly gone from taking the top receiver on our board in Avery to taking... who?

Do you still take Greco in the third after passing on a WR in the second? This was clearly an area the Rams wanted to address, as they wanted to get a guy with speed that could contribute now in the slot. But if they go corner in round two and still go OL in round three, then suddenly the prospects of getting a receiver who could make somewhat of an immediate contribution are slim.

Besides, the Rams seem to covet speed right now on both sides of the ball. Speed was one of the main things they liked about both Hill and Wade. Also, it's hard to imagine them spending a second round pick on a guy they may feel is similar to someone they already have in Ron Bartell in terms of size and physicality.

NGSeiler
05-01-2008, 12:41 AM
I think the Rams forced one in there with the Avery selection. I know they were looking receiver all the way with their second pick but if the value just isn't there they could have waited a round or two to potentially get a similar type of player (i.e. Mario Manningham).

Two things...

1) They felt the value was there with Avery, and reportedly were made aware that 8-10 other teams felt it was as well.

2) Manningham wasn't even on their radar because of character issues. Besides, I don't think you'll find too many similar players in terms of Avery's combination of speed, agility, and size.

HEISMANHERSCHEL
05-01-2008, 12:51 AM
I would agree with those that say none of the wideouts this year were sure things.

I thought Avery was a great fit. I was suprised by the pick, but not disapointed.

tfry
05-01-2008, 08:10 AM
This was clearly an area the Rams wanted to address, as they wanted to get a guy with speed that could contribute now in the slot. But if they go corner in round two and still go OL in round three, then suddenly the prospects of getting a receiver who could make somewhat of an immediate contribution are slim.


From my understanding, Avery was extremely raw and was viewed as a project. He could help with returns, but as a receiver I don't think he will contribute for another two or three years. Plus, didn't we go out and sign Daunte Hall last year for returns?

NGSeiler
05-01-2008, 12:45 PM
From my understanding, Avery was extremely raw and was viewed as a project. He could help with returns, but as a receiver I don't think he will contribute for another two or three years.

The Rams seem to disagree with you, as again, they sound as if they are counting on him contributing sooner rather than later as a slot guy. Time will tell who is right on that one.

That's not to say there aren't aspects of his game that Avery needs to work on, but I have a hard time calling a guy with 210 receptions over 42 college starts extremely raw or a project.

Plus, didn't we go out and sign Daunte Hall last year for returns?

Hall has a $1.9275 million salary this season and likely won't contribute that much outside of special teams. That's a steep price to pay, and if the Rams can find someone else to handle returns, I wouldn't be surprised to see Hall sent packing.

holt_bruce81
05-01-2008, 06:50 PM
Another good article on Avery......

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5711046.html

and Avery's Press Conference at the Combine....

http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/team/2008NFLDraftHomepage.asp?mm_file_id=5149&play_clip=y

nfrillman
05-01-2008, 07:19 PM
I am really excited to see how Saunders is going to use Avery, and to see what this kid can do. With that kind of raw speed and quickness, I'm not sure how people are going to cover him.

dbhinla
05-08-2008, 04:57 PM
From my understanding, Avery was extremely raw and was viewed as a project. He could help with returns, but as a receiver I don't think he will contribute for another two or three years. Plus, didn't we go out and sign Daunte Hall last year for returns?

tfry, sorry you didn't like the pick but Avery was identified in a St. Louis Post Dispatch article as Al Saunders GUY! Sorry I don't have a link but i remember him being as the top reciever on Al Saunder's board. Now virtually no one else had him at the top but at least for the time being Al Saunder's reputation as one of the top OCs in the NFL should get him the benifit of the doubt for now.

NFLBUDDAH1
05-23-2008, 02:37 AM
At first I was probably like most people - "Donnie Who???" And I was thinking "here we go again....." But then I started reading about him, and the more I read the more I liked. I never really liked Mel Kiper Jr. anyways - the guy seems like an arrogant wannabe who couldn't make the third string team of his local high school - so now he offers his 'expert' opinion... But back to Avery - the more I read the more I like - super fast, played a lot in college, and has 'tude' - that will work for now... I still wish the Rams has drafted Dorsey, but Long could become awesome - so bring on the season !!!

tfry
09-16-2008, 08:26 AM
Well, through two weeks I can safely say I was dead on with hating the Avery pick. DeSean Jackson is averaging 6 receptions and 108 yards per game. Donnie Avery has 1 return yard after two games. Zygmund and Linehan have to go. This team is just painful to watch.

I also didn't like the Keenan Burton pick because he was so injury prone. Well guess what! He's injured!!! Time to start looking towards the 2009 season...

I was really looking forward to the Rams draft this year and it started off excellent with Chris Long. However, after that there wasn't much to be excited about.

We had one of the largest reaches in the draft grabbing Donnie Avery with the 33rd overall. With Thomas, Jackson, and Sweed still on the board I just don't get it. I realize we need a slot receiver, but wouldn't bringing in the top receiver (Thomas) to challenge Drew Bennett be a better option? Plus Torry Holt is 32 and had an injury plagued '07. If Holt goes down this year we will be looking at Bennett, Avery, and Reche Cauldwell. Personally, I would have liked to see us trade our second rounder for Lito Sheppard had I known we were going to waste it on a slot receiver.

I also didn't like the Burton pick out of Kentucky. The guy can't stay healthy at all and doesn't seem to have much upside in my opinion.

If Linehan is an offensive guru, he sure hasn't shown it. I'm curious what you guys think of the Avery pick and how you see it working out for the Rams. We had a lot of holes to fill this year and I think we addressed most, but our skill positions on offense were not addressed in my opinion.

holt_bruce81
09-16-2008, 07:14 PM
How can you be dead on? Avery hasn't even got in the chance to play and it's been two freaking weeks of his rookie year.

You barely have a rookie receiver make a huge impact. It's not like he's going to just come into the nfl and start playing at a probowl level.

Isaac Bruce pretty much played on special teams his rookie year, and didn't even have over 300 receiving yards.....Guess he's a bust to.

nfrillman
09-16-2008, 09:43 PM
How can you be dead on? Avery hasn't even got in the chance to play and it's been two freaking weeks of his rookie year.

You barely have a rookie receiver make a huge impact. It's not like he's going to just come into the nfl and start playing at a probowl level.

Isaac Bruce pretty much played on special teams his rookie year, and didn't even have over 300 receiving yards.....Guess he's a bust to.

Exactly. You can pretty much predict someone's NFL career by their team's first two games, even if they basically didn't play. Desean Jackson's number couldn't possibly have anything to do with being the top option the first couple weeks for an excellent team. I guess this means Long is an 8 sack a year guy.

holt_bruce81
09-25-2008, 11:50 PM
I am pumped that Avery is starting this week!!

NGSeiler
10-12-2008, 05:29 PM
...so, still hate the pick?

holt_bruce81
10-12-2008, 07:43 PM
haha nice!

tfry
10-16-2008, 04:15 PM
hahaha NG he looked pretty good last week I will give you that. Our team has been a mess for a couple years now and it's frustrating. Especially when other rookies are healthy and contributing right away (Jackson/Royal). I still think Avery has a lot to prove before you can write him up as a success. However, if he builds on the Washington game I'd feel much better about the pick (even though DeSean Jackson is running away with ROY)!

holt_bruce81
10-17-2008, 12:45 AM
hahaha NG he looked pretty good last week I will give you that. Our team has been a mess for a couple years now and it's frustrating. Especially when other rookies are healthy and contributing right away (Jackson/Royal). I still think Avery has a lot to prove before you can write him up as a success. However, if he builds on the Washington game I'd feel much better about the pick (even though DeSean Jackson is running away with ROY)!

haha he didn't play one game or even go through one practice in the NFL before you went off saying how much you hate the pick.

ChezPower4
10-17-2008, 06:58 PM
hahaha NG he looked pretty good last week I will give you that. Our team has been a mess for a couple years now and it's frustrating. Especially when other rookies are healthy and contributing right away (Jackson/Royal). I still think Avery has a lot to prove before you can write him up as a success. However, if he builds on the Washington game I'd feel much better about the pick (even though DeSean Jackson is running away with ROY)!

DeSean Jackson running away with the ROY??? Seriously, Jackson is a canidate but I think that Matt Forte, Chris Johnson and Matt Ryan are in much better shape to win the award than Jackson.

holt_bruce81
10-26-2008, 09:16 PM
So that Avery pick is looking better and better every week.

LonghornsLegend
10-26-2008, 09:51 PM
Well, through two weeks I can safely say I was dead on with hating the Avery pick. DeSean Jackson is averaging 6 receptions and 108 yards per game. Donnie Avery has 1 return yard after two games. Zygmund and Linehan have to go. This team is just painful to watch.

I also didn't like the Keenan Burton pick because he was so injury prone. Well guess what! He's injured!!! Time to start looking towards the 2009 season...



LMAO this is why people don't jump the gun, I guess you didn't get the memo that this was a rookie WR not even at the halfway point of his rookie year, but you were "right" already about how his career would pan out.


See how foolish you look now?