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DoWnThEfiElD
04-28-2008, 05:30 PM
Just for fun throw a prospect you wouldn't mind seeing in a Lions uniform for next years draft.

I'm gona go with Matthew Stafford from GA. I don't know why but I like him a lot as a QB, and think he could have the potential to be special. Kinda reminds me of Favre like skills. Not comparing to two, just saying.

Prowler
04-28-2008, 05:42 PM
rey maualuga, michael johnson. one of those would be sweet.

Scotty D
04-28-2008, 05:47 PM
Oh god. haha.

Theres a nice group of LTs out there. I wouldn't rule out a first round RB. Kevin Smith is just a third rounder and this is a two back league.

Honestly the only positions I don't think we could go with in first round are

WLB
MLB
UT
RT
WR

I want to almost put DE, but I won't.

SINCE1978
04-28-2008, 05:57 PM
I was intrigued by LT Michael Oher out of Ol' Miss after reading the book Blindside .... the only forseeable way to scoop him up is via trade (and don't say trade Roy) or go 2-14 b/c he'll be the Jake Long of 2009's draft. I will follow his career wherever he goes, that book blew me away, what a story that kid has!

Jame Larinitas (sp?) would work for me. Sims & Dizon with Larinitas in the middle would give teams plenty of fits!

WMD
04-28-2008, 06:36 PM
Rey Maualuga.. Michael Johnson.. Michael Oher..

I'd also love to see big Herman Johnson in a Lions uniform.

Bootland27
04-28-2008, 06:59 PM
I think a corner (Malcolm Jenkins or Vontae Davis) or maybe a 300lb+ DT (Demarcus Granger)

woodnick
04-29-2008, 01:27 PM
Todd McShay posted his 2009 mock draft and using a formula he has the Lions drafting 2nd and taking Michael Johnson DE Georgia Tech. An interesting side note is that 3 of the top 5 were DTs with the other 2 being Johnson and Matt Stafford.

Xiomera
04-29-2008, 02:02 PM
I would love to get Oher or another top OT the most. Book end tackles would do wonders for our team for the future.

woodnick
04-29-2008, 02:12 PM
I would love to get Oher or another top OT the most. Book end tackles would do wonders for our team for the future.

I agree completely and wish we would have gotten that on Saturday, but here's to next year.

WMD
08-26-2008, 12:51 AM
Heading into the Season, I'd list our needs as:

OT- Jeff Backus is getting paid a lot of money and just isn't producing like he should. I'll throw it out there, I think he could be cut if we have a bad year. Look for one high. I'm talking Michael Oher, people. If we're a little lower, Andre Smith or Eugene Monroe. Right now, I'm not sure who is best fit for our Zone Blocking system, but LT could be a huge need come April.

DE- Dewayne White is solid enough, but everyone else that we have are probably best fit as rotational guys. Could go for one high, I'm thinking Michael Johnson if he has a productive year. Another guy I'd like if it weren't for injury concerns is Greg Hardy from Ole Miss.

LB- As long as Paris Lenon is starting, we're going to need a Linebacker. Dizon should get either the Middle or Strong Side, so whatever we have left after Ernie and Dizon should be filled. If it's MLB, we should look for one high. SLB can be filled in Rounds 2 or 3. Would love to see Rey Maualuga for the MLB spot but I'm not sure how good of a fit he is for the Tampa 2.

CB- All we have is Leigh Bodden, basically. I want Vontae Davis. I think he's my favorite going into the 2009 Season. That's all I have to say about that. Vontae, baby!

RB- Kevin Smith looks solid enough. I think if we want our running game to be truly effective, we need a speedy RB to compliment Smith. Tatum Bell probably won't be here next year, or could even be cut before this season. CJ Spiller is my guy for the spot.

QB- This one I'm not so sure about. I think if we're high enough (in the draft, not on drugs) we could go for one. Drew Stanton injured his knee last year and his thumb this year.. He's only going to be out for a few weeks, but the injury bug is definitely fond of Stanton. Kitna only has a year or two left in the tank, so if they aren't sold on Stanton 100% and we're in position for a "Franchise" signal caller at the top of the draft, I could see it happening.

Iamcanadian
08-26-2008, 08:33 AM
I only see 4 priorities for the Lions. I'm assuming we will be drafting pretty high as I expect little from this current team.

Priorities:

1) We have not had a franchise QB since Layne some 50+ years ago and that is the last time we won a playoff game. See any correlation. Well I do, and for me that will also be the Lion's top priority till the problem has been rectified.

2) We haven't had a franchise DE since Marinelli brought the Cover 2 defense to Detroit, in fact I don't think Mornhinweg or Mooch had one either. The DE position in most defenses is a top priority and especially in a Cover 2 defense where it is the #1 priority. Until this position is solved Marinelli's defense will always rank at or near the bottom of the league.

3) I'm not sold on Smith being our solution at RB and if he isn't we need desperately to find a franchise RB to make this offense work.

4) I'm not a believer in Dizon as our solution at MLB, he has yet to prove to me he can even be a starter in this league at any LB position. We need to find a MLB who can be a dominate player.

For me drafting any other positions before these 4 crucial positions are solved is simply dooming Detroit for another long run as a bottom feeder with little hope for success.

Addict
08-26-2008, 09:30 AM
I only see 4 priorities for the Lions. I'm assuming we will be drafting pretty high as I expect little from this current team.

Priorities:

1) We have not had a franchise QB since Layne some 50+ years ago and that is the last time we won a playoff game. See any correlation. Well I do, and for me that will also be the Lion's top priority till the problem has been rectified.

2) We haven't had a franchise DE since Marinelli brought the Cover 2 defense to Detroit, in fact I don't think Mornhinweg or Mooch had one either. The DE position in most defenses is a top priority and especially in a Cover 2 defense where it is the #1 priority. Until this position is solved Marinelli's defense will always rank at or near the bottom of the league.

3) I'm not sold on Smith being our solution at RB and if he isn't we need desperately to find a franchise RB to make this offense work.

4) I'm not a believer in Dizon as our solution at MLB, he has yet to prove to me he can even be a starter in this league at any LB position. We need to find a MLB who can be a dominate player.

For me drafting any other positions before these 4 crucial positions are solved is simply dooming Detroit for another long run as a bottom feeder with little hope for success.

wow dude, apart from DE all those positions have been adressed. You can't write people off before they've even played a snap. Smith for one has looked well and Stanton deserves at least a fair chance. Cheer up.

Xiomera
08-26-2008, 01:02 PM
We need improved play from the offensive guards as well. And I would rank that ahead of RB. Behind a good offensive line, any RB can look pretty decent.

WMD
08-26-2008, 03:44 PM
We need improved play from the offensive guards as well. And I would rank that ahead of RB. Behind a good offensive line, any RB can look pretty decent.

I want Herman Johnson. He's a monster.. I don't know if he'd be a good fit for our scheme, though.

Iamcanadian
08-26-2008, 10:44 PM
wow dude, apart from DE all those positions have been adressed. You can't write people off before they've even played a snap. Smith for one has looked well and Stanton deserves at least a fair chance. Cheer up.

I have no doubt that we will stick with Stanton just like we stuck with Harrington when Roethlisberger was available. That's the Detroit Lions for the last 50+ years.

I don't see a feature RB in Smith. He'll be alright but nothing special IMO. Yes, he had a 35 yard run in his last game but what about the other 10 carries leading up to that run. One successful run out of 11 carries isn't going to cut it for a team that wants to pound the ball. Anyways we'll know by next year's draft whether or not Smith has met muster as our RB. If he has then indeed cross him off the list, but a team like Detroit should never cross off a potential franchise QB or didn't you read Scott Wright's article on 2nd and 3rd round drafted QB's.

Addict
08-27-2008, 02:20 AM
I have no doubt that we will stick with Stanton just like we stuck with Harrington when Roethlisberger was available. That's the Detroit Lions for the last 50+ years.

I don't see a feature RB in Smith. He'll be alright but nothing special IMO. Yes, he had a 35 yard run in his last game but what about the other 10 carries leading up to that run. One successful run out of 11 carries isn't going to cut it for a team that wants to pound the ball. Anyways we'll know by next year's draft whether or not Smith has met muster as our RB. If he has then indeed cross him off the list, but a team like Detroit should never cross off a potential franchise QB or didn't you read Scott Wright's article on 2nd and 3rd round drafted QB's.

Actually I did. But my point is all those areas have at least a temporary fix. The main issue is the defensive end position, RB and QB aren't exactly manned by Peyton Manning and LaDainian Tomlinson (if only...), but for now they'll do the job, and let's face it, you don't need to be much of a QB to produce with targets like Roy and Calvin (although it remains to be seen if roy actually stays with the Lions). DE is #1 through 10 priority in my book, sure a franchise QB would be nice, but as of now we need passrushers more than I need coffee (it's 9.20 AM here)

Iamcanadian
08-27-2008, 07:16 AM
Actually I did. But my point is all those areas have at least a temporary fix. The main issue is the defensive end position, RB and QB aren't exactly manned by Peyton Manning and LaDainian Tomlinson (if only...), but for now they'll do the job, and let's face it, you don't need to be much of a QB to produce with targets like Roy and Calvin (although it remains to be seen if roy actually stays with the Lions). DE is #1 through 10 priority in my book, sure a franchise QB would be nice, but as of now we need passrushers more than I need coffee (it's 9.20 AM here)

We aren't that far apart. However I'm sure Marinelli would recommend Millen take a DE over a QB, but if you are interested in winning a Super Bowl and a franchise QB is sitting there when we draft, many a top GM would take the QB. Of course I don't expect we will take a QB, that's a decision that solid teams with top GM's make not pitiful franchises like Detroit. There is always a problem when the HC decides who to draft. He is interested in winning now, that's how he keeps his job, rather than looking at the big picture and prepare the team for real success down the road. Few HC's have been solid drafters for this reason although there have been exceptions.

Addict
08-27-2008, 11:07 AM
We aren't that far apart. However I'm sure Marinelli would recommend Millen take a DE over a QB, but if you are interested in winning a Super Bowl and a franchise QB is sitting there when we draft, many a top GM would take the QB. Of course I don't expect we will take a QB, that's a decision that solid teams with top GM's make not pitiful franchises like Detroit. There is always a problem when the HC decides who to draft. He is interested in winning now, that's how he keeps his job, rather than looking at the big picture and prepare the team for real success down the road. Few HC's have been solid drafters for this reason although there have been exceptions.

We're probably not that far apart indeed. I understand your point, which is essentially what Scott's always saying "unless you have one, don't pass on a franchise QB", and usually I agree with that. Our defense has been improving over the past few years and all it really, really lacks is an elite pass-rusher. I'm not telling you Stanton is gonna be a superstar, but he'll be servicable for at least a year. A DE would help our team forward.

As for the superbowl, let's focus on making the playoffs first. Gotta walk before you can run, right?

Iamcanadian
08-27-2008, 08:26 PM
We're probably not that far apart indeed. I understand your point, which is essentially what Scott's always saying "unless you have one, don't pass on a franchise QB", and usually I agree with that. Our defense has been improving over the past few years and all it really, really lacks is an elite pass-rusher. I'm not telling you Stanton is gonna be a superstar, but he'll be servicable for at least a year. A DE would help our team forward.

As for the superbowl, let's focus on making the playoffs first. Gotta walk before you can run, right?

Here we don't quite agree. I'm with Scott here. Of course, a franchise QB has to be sitting there when it's your pick, otherwise it's a mute point.
I just don't think we can be a playoff team with Kitna or Stanton. I'm sure you've seen Scott Wright's article on 2nd and 3rd round drafted QB's. it's not a pretty sight. I'm not at all sold that Stanton can ever be a starting QB in this league. I think people way overestimate how good a WR can be if your not solid at QB. I just don't think either Roy or Johnson will ever approach their potential with these guys as our QB's.
For any decent team, the 1st question each post season is, 'can we contend for the Super Bowl next season', if the answer is yes, then you are not in a rebuilding mode and your draft strategy is simple. 'Look for that piece that can put you over the top'. However, if the answer is no and I really believe it is with Detroit, face it Millen is never going to get us even close to that point, then you are still in a rebuilding mode and you look to the future. That future must start with a very solid franchise type QB or your just going around in circles but never up. It has been 50+ years since we have had anything close to a franchise QB and it has been 50+ years since we have won a playoff game, even you have to admit that there is a correlation.
I know, Millen will never draft another 1st round QB while he is in his current position, he finds it just too risky to contemplate. Far better to give Detroit a 2nd round QB and wet the fans appetite without having to play him for 3 or 4 seasons so they cannot claim he failed again for quite some time.
It takes usually 3 seasons to get even a franchise QB up to snuff. By failing to draft one right away, it dooms Detroit to at least another 3 seasons of failing to be a competitive team. If Millen is around for another 2 seasons, it will be minimally be 5 years before anyone can expect us to be a playoff contender and for me that is sad, sad, sad.

Brothgar
08-27-2008, 09:52 PM
We need improved play from the offensive guards as well. And I would rank that ahead of RB. Behind a good offensive line, any RB can look pretty decent.

I agree not first round but we should address the OG's in the next draft.


Here would be my priorities.

1. NT We got rid of Rogers. We havn't found a grat replacement yet (or even if we did the guy is old) Well unless Redding is moving to NT and IAF is going to UT but I don't know how that will work out either.

2. OG we are slowly but surely rebuilding the O-Line eventually we will have to find a replacement for Backus but I think we need t oaddress the inside as well

3. LB as WMD said Paris Lenon is not a starting LB in this league. We meed to improve on him.

4. CB Bian Kelly is over the hill Keith Smith is ok but is better as a NB we will need to replace Kelly to work on the other side of Bodden.

Prowler
08-28-2008, 01:25 PM
rey maualuga is the pick i'd love to have. no question marks, stick him on our team and let him work. i don't want another kalimba edwards or miss on a quarterback or any kind of developmental person. i want the ready to play impact player who can hopefully provide an immediate presence on and off the field to our d the way lofa tatupa did to seattle. if he's gone then i guess roll the dice on a DE freak.

Scotty D
08-29-2008, 06:08 PM
SLB is not a position we should be looking to take in the first couple of rounds. All I've read and from my understanding is that SLB is the least important position on our defense. The Bears have gotten along with Hunter Hillenmeyer and I can't even name the Colts or Buccaneers SLB.

I really don't think we will be in the top 5 either. But its pointless to argue that right now. I think we will be around 15-20.

And some prospects in the mid first round I'm interested in

CJ Spiller - Explosive running back. Would be a great compliment to Smith.

Duke Robinson - Not sure how he would fit into our scheme, but his OG play would be something we haven't had for years.

Mike Mickens, CB - Talented CB with some size. Play the NB until Kelly is gone. Insurance also for injuries (Bodden and Kelly have prior issues).

P-L
08-29-2008, 06:17 PM
I think what we need depends on where we draft.

If we are drafting in the top three, or even top five then I think we need to take the franchise Quarterback. Sorry, but I don't trust Drew Stanton and it had NOTHING to do with what college he attended. It's statistically proven that 97% of the Quarterbacks drafted in the 2nd Round fail at the NFL level. I don't trust anyone on this coaching staff to turn Drew Stanton into one of those Quarterbacks in the other 3%. Do any of you? If we are drafting that high then that means that none of the Quarterbacks on our roster showed any sign of being able to lead the team forward.

I think if we pick in the six to ten range, then we look elsewhere unless a franchise Quarterback is still available. However, for argument's sake let's say there are none available. I think the two positions we need to look at are a franchise Left Tackle and an impact Defensive Lineman. I did like the pick of Gosder Cherilus, even if he was a reach, but he is your prototypical Right Tackle. We're still playing Jeff Backus (Suck-ass) a whole lot of money, but we need to eat that money. I'd rather pay him not to play then pay him to stand around and do nothing. There are two top notch Left Tackle prospects in this draft (Michael Oher and Eugene Monroe) and adding one of them would solidify the outside of our line for years to come. As far as the Defensive Line goes, Dewayne White and Corey Redding are fine players, but they need an impact guy playing next to them or the unit as a whole will not be effective.

If we pick outside of the top ten then I think we can start looking at the Linebackers and Cornerbacks of this draft while still watching out for an impact Offensive Tackle or Defensive Lineman to fall. In my opinion there are four premium positions on an NFL team. They are: Quarterback, Left Tackle, Defensive End, and Defensive Tackle. The Lions don't have a "franchise" type player at any of those four positions. Anyone remember the last team to go to a Super Bowl without a "franchise" player at a minimum of two of those positions?

wingboy2999
09-06-2008, 09:11 AM
A big question mark to me is QB. If Stanton comes in and plays crappy this season... go with QB. But we need to see him play. Yeah, 97% of the QBs fail.... but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Put him out there.

But then again.... I was all for Mike McMahon starting. I am still pissed about him not running it in during the Thanksgiving game when he coulda made it. Argh.

WMD
09-06-2008, 05:27 PM
Mike McMahon was a beast.

detroit4life
09-07-2008, 07:28 PM
we need to work on our front 7 we should go DE and then LB probably DB as well screw the offense weve tried to build it for the past 7 years

treefi
09-12-2008, 03:02 PM
We definitely need an LT of the future, LG of the future, a TE for the future, a DE with some real potential to rush the passer, another LB depending on where Dizon ends up, and a CB with lockdown potential for depth and the future.

... and we still probably need a starting QB, a starting RB, a starting RG, might need a future and depth at DT depending on Fluellen and Cohen, possibly 2 LB's if Dizon busts, and maybe even a S if Alexander and Bullocks end up being average.


.... So basically draft anything besides a WR, RT, and WLB. Jeez.

WMD
09-12-2008, 04:48 PM
We definitely need an LT of the future, LG of the future, a TE for the future, a DE with some real potential to rush the passer, another LB depending on where Dizon ends up, and a CB with lockdown potential for depth and the future.

... and we still probably need a starting QB, a starting RB, a starting RG, might need a future and depth at DT depending on Fluellen and Cohen, possibly 2 LB's if Dizon busts, and maybe even a S if Alexander and Bullocks end up being average.


.... So basically draft anything besides a WR, RT, and WLB. Jeez.

We might make the Playoffs in 2019!

wingboy2999
09-13-2008, 06:32 PM
We might make the Playoffs in 2019!

Cool wit me yo.

Scotty D
09-16-2008, 09:16 AM
Say no to Stafford. He has not had the numbers to back up his bloated hype. I'd rather try to trade for a Browns QB. Maybe Roy Williams could head to Cleveland?

With our top 5 pick I think you have to look at

Michael Oher , LT
Eugene Munroe , LT
Andre Smith, LT
Michael Johnson, DE
George Selvie, DE

I really don't get the idea of drafting a LB like Rey M or James L when we have no pass rush. No pass rush makes our LB kind of useless.

Addict
09-16-2008, 10:22 AM
we need talent everywhere but WR, period.

bondo_10
09-19-2008, 10:38 AM
I DO like Michael Johnson, but it all depends on where in the top 5-10 we are, hahaha.

woodnick
09-19-2008, 09:51 PM
I would love to draft a LT such as Oher, Monroe, or Andre Smith (assuming he comes out). There are also a few NFL guys that think that Backus might be a better fit at LG (an expensive LG) than LT so we might be able to get 2 birds with 1 stone. I'd also love to get Maulanga or Lauranitis if we end up with a second 1st (i.e. if Roy is traded).

Heck, how about Roy and our 1st traded to NE for Pioli!

bondo_10
09-25-2008, 10:15 AM
Okay, and i am again just spit-balling here but we just give our rookies some time (i.e. kevin smith) BUT we are not winning games with Kitna at QB period. Also, we need to shape up our defense in the first round we cannot just outscore our opponents anymore. I also like the thought of Rey Maualuga in the first. Look what Pat Willis and Demeco Ryans did for their poor defenses. I realize that he may not be the same player, but I have seen or heard nothing but good things. Last thing, seeing as how our beloved Lions cannot get much worse...how about playing a mobile QB for once?? Like Drew Stanton, or pick one up in Day 1 of the draft.

Iamcanadian
09-25-2008, 10:59 AM
Well all discussions as to whom we should draft really cannot be considered at this time. In all likelihood we will have a new HC by the start of next season and without knowing what type of defense he plays, we cannot assess who he might draft on the defensive side.
First we have to know how our new GM feels about each player on the team. Then who will be available when it is our turn to draft, before we have any clues as to which way the new GM will go.
I suspect that outside of QB, the offense is pretty well on its own as far as improving goes. I can see our new GM thinking in one of 2 ways provided he is a decent GM with real football knowledge. On offense he will draft a potential franchise QB around witch the team can be rebuilt if of course, one is available where we draft. If there isn't a franchise QB available, he'll draft to improve our defense starting with the DL or should the 2 MLB fit the new HC's defensive scheme, he might grab one of them if absolutely no DLmen are worthy of that high a pick. I think you'll see a draft that is almost exclusively defense orientated. No matter who our HC is, the defense must have some new talented bodies to have any chance for improvement.
Yes we could use an upgrade at LT but who wants to go through another season where we consistently give up 30+ points a game. A defensive commitment is a real necessity if we want to turn this team around and only a franchise QB should be considered if we are not drafting defense.
Just my opinion.

Xiomera
09-25-2008, 12:28 PM
It will ultimately depend on which college players elevate their play to be worthy of top 5 picks, but I think the player we draft absolutely will need to play either QB, LT, DE, or MLB. I'd lean towards LT or DE unless Stanton proves to be a bust when he gets his playing time later this season.

wingboy2999
09-25-2008, 06:13 PM
I'm gonna say LT.

Scotty D
09-28-2008, 12:41 AM
Alabama has two players I'm highly interested in, Andre Smith, OT and DT, Terrance Cody.

Cody is a mammoth of a man and has caused major problems in the backfield against Clemson and Georgia.

wingboy2999
09-28-2008, 02:10 AM
JOHN PARKER WILSON! [edit: whoops]

It's such a power name.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-28-2008, 02:18 PM
edit: ignore me

wingboy2999
09-28-2008, 03:07 PM
What'd you say?

P-L
09-28-2008, 06:03 PM
I like Andre Smith, but I'm not sold on Terrence Cody.

Prowler
09-28-2008, 07:21 PM
atleast cody has shown that he can lose weight when pushed

wingboy2999
09-28-2008, 08:03 PM
atleast cody has shown that he can lose weight when pushed

I do not want another dude that may have weight problems. *cough* BMW *cough*

ChezPower4
10-01-2008, 08:49 PM
Alabama has two players I'm highly interested in, Andre Smith, OT and DT, Terrance Cody.

Cody is a mammoth of a man and has caused major problems in the backfield against Clemson and Georgia.

Can you say Shuan Rodgers all over again. He'll have to have someone to keep him off the buffet circuit.

wingboy2999
10-01-2008, 09:18 PM
Can you say Shuan Rodgers all over again. He'll have to have someone to keep him off the buffet circuit.

ROGERS!!! Come on!

WMD
10-01-2008, 11:30 PM
Only a little under 7 months until the draft!

Scotty D
10-02-2008, 12:41 AM
Only a little under 7 months until the draft!

I haven't followed a non Millen draft! This is going be weird.

Brothgar
10-02-2008, 09:22 AM
Elvis Dummervil is a FA this offseason any chance he becomes a Lion?

jbombul
10-02-2008, 12:30 PM
Elvis Dummervil is a FA this offseason any chance he becomes a Lion?

isnt he an RFA at the end of the season?

Brothgar
10-02-2008, 01:22 PM
isnt he an RFA at the end of the season?

According to KFFL he is a UFA

Prowler
10-03-2008, 10:29 AM
atleast if we got a new version of shaun rogers, hopefully he wouldn't flash a gun at a strip club and wouldn't feel like he WAS the lions D until about year 3, so we'd have 2 good years

SINCE1978
10-08-2008, 07:47 PM
we need to work on our front 7 we should go DE and then LB probably DB as well screw the offense weve tried to build it for the past 7 years

Amen on an all Defensive draft. Although the 2 top LB's from USC & OSU are studs, they would only be average impact players for Detroit in year 1 b/c they have no pass rush. 4 sacks in 4 games ... with a head coach who is a D-line guru ... ouch. Start up front and build for speed like the Giants, Cowboys or Titans.

ChezPower4
10-09-2008, 06:45 PM
we need to work on our front 7 we should go DE and then LB probably DB as well screw the offense weve tried to build it for the past 7 years

You guys have very good skill positon players on offense but you have no line. Thats what i think the Lions should start building as well as the D-line

Prowler
10-11-2008, 08:24 AM
hmmm...carson palmer isn't starting this week for the 0-5 bengals. st louis is right next to us in every horrible defensive ranking. it looks like we have some real competition for that #1 draft spot. although i still think we might edge out 1 win, they'll probably edge out 2-3.

asmitty45
10-12-2008, 05:30 PM
At this point Maualuga, Oher and MJohnson would be my top 3, with stafford close behind.

Prowler
10-12-2008, 07:40 PM
brian orakpo is looking very good right now too

J-Hype
10-17-2008, 12:00 PM
brian orakpo is looking very good right now too

yeah i am likeing Orakpo right now im feeling this

1. Orakpo
1. Rey Mauluga
2.terance taylor
3.CB/RB
4.alex boone
5.OL

Prowler
10-17-2008, 12:47 PM
i'm just wondering about maualuga's value and where it will be on draft day. who will need him and how far he'll fall. i've seen some putting him top 3, others around 16.

Prowler
10-17-2008, 12:49 PM
well same with orakpo. should be nice finally having options

P-L
10-17-2008, 03:04 PM
I think Maualuga is going to fall out of the top 20. He's not having as good of a year this year as last year and many scouts already expected average workouts from him.

ChezPower4
10-17-2008, 03:08 PM
yeah i am likeing Orakpo right now im feeling this

1. Orakpo
1. Rey Mauluga
2.terance taylor
3.CB/RB
4.alex boone
5.OL

I really like Orakpo as well and I think the Lions would be a lot better off if they could get a good pass rusher and Orakpo looks to be a very good speed rusher.

P-L
10-17-2008, 05:31 PM
I think we'll be picking too high for Orakpo. I just don't see him as a top three pick. I think we have to go QB or OT with that first pick. Then we can come back and grab a LB or DE with the second pick.

Brothgar
10-17-2008, 07:12 PM
Kinda off topic but do we have a conditional 3rd from the Browns? If we do what is that condition?

Prowler
10-17-2008, 08:15 PM
not sure about rogers. and i think we'll probably be too high for orakpo right now, but i don't know i just feel he has greatness in him. its weird but when i see him i think about freeney and suggs. i feel orlando pace and walter jones with the tackles(although i think one is destined to bust), and i think the top 3 linebackers are all going to be extremely good.

BackwoodsBoy
10-18-2008, 04:50 AM
You can always use the #33 pick on Derek Anderson and save a boat load of guarenteed money. I'd think #1 overall for Matthew Stafford would approach 45 million in guarenteed and 85 million overall(Matt Ryan was 34 and 72 at #3). Then you guys could use the #1 overall pick on whoever your staff decides is the best LT amoung Michael Oher, Andre Smith and Eugene Monroe and with the Dallas pick I'm sure you'd have at least one of Brandon Spikes(ILB), James Laurinaitis(ILB), Rey Maualuga(ILB), D.J. Moore(CB), Darius Butler(CB), Greg Hardy(DE), Michael Johnson(DE), Everette Brown(DE), or George Selvie(DE). Fills three huge needs and eliminates the finacial burden of #1 overall for a QB and not to mention first round QB's are way more likely bust than Top 5 LT's.

1. Michael Oher LT Mississippi
1. Brandon Spikes ILB Florida
3. Victor Harris CB Virginia Tech
3. Matt Shaughnessy DE Wisconson
5. Anthony Parker OG Tennessee
6. Brian Mandeville TE Northeastern
6. Brandon Hughes CB Oregon State

WMD
10-18-2008, 06:39 AM
Oher + Maualuga/Hardy = Instant, Instant Win

woodnick
10-18-2008, 11:13 AM
Every Lions fan should try to catch as much of the Bama-Ole Miss game as they can and watch the LT's, they are the future of the position.

Xiomera
10-18-2008, 11:33 AM
Kinda off topic but do we have a conditional 3rd from the Browns? If we do what is that condition?

I have not heard that. I think it was Bodden + a 2008 Third (Fluellen).

Brothgar
10-18-2008, 12:14 PM
I have not heard that. I think it was Bodden + a 2008 Third (Fluellen).

Yeah I was reading the picks traded on another site and they forgot to take down the 2008 picks and I got confused.

WMD
10-18-2008, 10:50 PM
Every Lions fan should try to catch as much of the Bama-Ole Miss game as they can and watch the LT's, they are the future of the position.

How did the game go? I had to work.

Iamcanadian
10-19-2008, 12:45 AM
Until we know who our HC is going to be, it is impossible to assess who we might draft. If Marinelli is fired, we may well switch out of the Cover 2 defense and require a completely different type of player.
We are in limbo until Ford announces his decision on our GM and the GM announces his decision on our new HC.
Until then you might as well flip a coin because without some kind of rational to base our picks on, it's all fantasy.

BackwoodsBoy
10-19-2008, 10:23 AM
Until we know who our HC is going to be, it is impossible to assess who we might draft. If Marinelli is fired, we may well switch out of the Cover 2 defense and require a completely different type of player.
We are in limbo until Ford announces his decision on our GM and the GM announces his decision on our new HC.
Until then you might as well flip a coin because without some kind of rational to base our picks on, it's all fantasy.

Well the way I see it your best player is on your offense. Calvin Johnson is also your best chance at winning right now, so at least 2 of those first 3 high picks should go to helping out Calvin Johnson ie LT and QB and those are 2 positions that don't really matter what scheme or head coach you have. A great one can play great in any offense. Also on offense you have Kevin Smith who is young and talented. With an improved Oline he can help win games too.

Whats up with Gosder Cherlius anyway? He looked awful in my only experience watching him this year and I also heard him and I believe Rameriz were actually benched mid game?

Prowler
10-19-2008, 10:50 AM
maybe today they can talk to kubiak and see if they can get some actual coaching so that they don't still look like they are in college

Scotty D
10-21-2008, 11:19 PM
Where do yo think Mark Sanchez's value is at? Late first round? I might prefer him to Stafford.

Trojanback02
10-22-2008, 12:15 AM
Where do yo think Mark Sanchez's value is at? Late first round? I might prefer him to Stafford.


I think Sanchez's value is right up there with Stafford, but most teams probaly prefer Stafford, though I can see Sanchez dropping to late first round, which would be a gift for us.

Mykdaneck
10-22-2008, 07:43 AM
We must draft Oline 1st. Can you imagine if we had taken Joe Thomas instead of CJ? Kevin Smith would be flying through holes and Kitna may not have spent his whole season on his tailbone. What good is talent at qb,rb and wr if there is no time to throw the ball? Michael Oher is our #1. Have any of you seen film of this guy? His feet are quick as lightning and he is just massive.
I believe the Cowboys are going to have problems winning for the next month (although they have a bye week in there and may have problems the rest of the year and I think that their draft pick will be closer to 18-21 than 25 which should give us a shot at a good LB prospect. I like Mayaluga (sp?) but I think we need to really scout Dizon. Dizon has a nose for the ball and can actually tackle and Marinelli is a moron for not playing him.

wingboy2999
10-22-2008, 08:33 PM
We must draft Oline 1st. Can you imagine if we had taken Joe Thomas instead of CJ? Kevin Smith would be flying through holes and Kitna may not have spent his whole season on his tailbone. What good is talent at qb,rb and wr if there is no time to throw the ball? Michael Oher is our #1. Have any of you seen film of this guy? His feet are quick as lightning and he is just massive.
I believe the Cowboys are going to have problems winning for the next month (although they have a bye week in there and may have problems the rest of the year and I think that their draft pick will be closer to 18-21 than 25 which should give us a shot at a good LB prospect. I like Mayaluga (sp?) but I think we need to really scout Dizon. Dizon has a nose for the ball and can actually tackle and Marinelli is a moron for not playing him.

I think if you are doing "coulda woulda shoulda" in that draft it should be for AD.

weasel
10-23-2008, 08:52 AM
The Lions were reeling from two successive years of terrible O-line play. Dead last rushing and 2nd from last in sacks allowed. I screamed we did not need C. Johnson because we already had 4300 yds. receiving but that we needed to improve our tackles to compete with any offense. I represented the Detroit franchise in the scout.com draft and drafted Joe Thomas. The Lions stuck with the best player available in CJ. That provided us with a disgruntled receiver who would eventually leave. We were fortunate to get a great package from the Cowboys who if they were patient would have gotten him in free agency for a little bit of money. I am not convinced Calvin will ever be great becaus ehe will have Lions QB's throwing to him.
The ideal premise would be re-building the O-line and locking up a left tackle. With that in mind, I like Oher and Monroe.
Just for information purposes, I was able to draft Derrick Harvey and Jerod Mayo in the draft his past year and I think in doing so I also out-performed the Lions when they traded down and grabbed Cherilous and in the second grabbed Dizon.

woodnick
10-23-2008, 11:25 PM
I don't know if it matters to anyone, but Colt MCoy announed that he's gonna stay in school after this year. This isn't much of a surprise, but could anybody imagine if all of the junior QBs would have come out? Bradford, McCoy, Sanchez, and Stafford would have put us in a great position toget one of them potentially in the top of the 2nd if we choose to go in that direction. I've been pretty impressed with McCoy the last 2 weeks, most importantly his ability to go through his progressions and then his ability to buy time to give himself the opportunity to get the ball to the open man.

wingboy2999
10-24-2008, 03:28 PM
I like Colt McCoy but as I said before... he is just a super Drew Stanton. That's not bad... but why not see how the real one works out?

awfullyquiet
10-24-2008, 03:33 PM
I like Colt McCoy but as I said before... he is just a super Drew Stanton. That's not bad... but why not see how the real one works out?

agreed. you have a pretty good prospect qb.

why not fix your lines with the next two years... maybe with a decent line bodden may look like what you paid him for.

woodnick
10-24-2008, 05:17 PM
agreed. you have a pretty good prospect qb.

why not fix your lines with the next two years... maybe with a decent line bodden may look like what you paid him for.

I've always said build the line first and give Stanton a full year as the starter, including a full offseason, if he doesn't work then at least we know what we have and are in a position to get our QB at the top of the 2010 draft, I hope every QB but one stays another yr. just so we might have a potential option to trade down to a team needing their signal caller (Chiefs?)

Brothgar
10-24-2008, 07:59 PM
I hear alot of Oher talk and for good reason dude's a freak. But I don't see that as the way we go. We have Backus and a first round pick in Cherilus who needs to play and learn under better coaching. On that note what about Rus Grimm? The guy is a very successful O-Line coach has been an OC for a while and great with O-Linemen.

Iamcanadian
10-24-2008, 08:44 PM
Well the way I see it your best player is on your offense. Calvin Johnson is also your best chance at winning right now, so at least 2 of those first 3 high picks should go to helping out Calvin Johnson ie LT and QB and those are 2 positions that don't really matter what scheme or head coach you have. A great one can play great in any offense. Also on offense you have Kevin Smith who is young and talented. With an improved Oline he can help win games too.

Whats up with Gosder Cherlius anyway? He looked awful in my only experience watching him this year and I also heard him and I believe Rameriz were actually benched mid game?

Yes, if you want to win a few games, you draft for immediate help but if you want to build a Super Bowl contender then a QB becomes a top priority if one is available. If one isn't, you take the top player rated in the draft as long as he fills a primary position on a football team.
Within 3 years, if Detroit wants to become a solid football team, you can assume that maybe only 2-5 veterans will survive the purge if we hire a decent HC backed by a decent GM. Winning next season is a zero priority, great teams with solid HC's use their 1st season to get rid of the deadwood and players who don't fit the new schemes. Very few of Detroit's starters would survive such a purge.
Of course, if we fail to hire either a good GM or HC, then we will see the team attempt to improve their current record right away and make due with the players still on the team. There will be little of a purge and we will become at best, a middle of the road team if we are lucky. This has generally been the method employed under WCF and the results are easy to see. Forget about every winning a Super Bowl and settle for between 7-9 victories if that, and the occasional but rare playoff game where you are a one and out team.
Excuse me if this loser's method doesn't excite me.

As for Cherilus, it is looking more and more like he is another Millen 1st round bust who cannot pass block and who may have to attempt a move to OG to save his career if he can make the adjustment. It really shouldn't come as a surprise to Lion's fans that Millen picked another flop since he was drafting much later in the draft than he was used to. If you cannot draft successfully in the top 5 or even the top 10, how much success do you expect when you draft later?

wingboy2999
10-25-2008, 12:05 AM
We do need to go OL and give Stanton some burn. Whether he sucks or not, we need OL. If we go for that, we can then address whatever else we need from there. Probably would be QB if he doesn't turn out to be what we hoped......... but I am optimistic here.

Xiomera
10-25-2008, 09:05 AM
The Lions need to get TWO offensive guards this offseason. I am sick of Mulitalo, Peterman, Ramirez, McCollum, and that other dude who's name eludes me due to his irrelevance. Backus might actually look half respectable if the guy next to him didn't suck so much.

Prowler
10-25-2008, 02:59 PM
i'm calling matt stafford out

i hate stafford for our pick. anybody but stafford. if you have the best running back in college football and a top notch defense and you are still not a top 10 heisman candidate then i really don't want to hear about him becoming a #1 pick to a team without a defense or a running game. yeah he has a strong arm, but its like having a guy on your team who bats .250 and only hits solo home runs in blowout games. its nice on paper, but he's missing something. now if he absolutely goes off in a bowl game or sec title game then it'll ease some doubts, but if he's going to play on a team like detroit, then i want to be damn sure he doesn't fold under pressure like matt millen's big head in space. i want to hear him get a nickname like matty-ice or hopefully becomes the stafford lion (play on stafford loan-loans backed with full faith of u.s. government, he could be backed up with full faith of lions fans provided he doesn't play like a folding chair)

so please, matt stafford, make me believe or if not then at the very least please play poorly enough so that its a no-brainer that we should not draft you. its too ambiguous right now and for a #1 pick it shouldn't be.

Xiomera
10-25-2008, 03:13 PM
Sam Braford FTW!

awfullyquiet
10-25-2008, 06:36 PM
I hear alot of Oher talk and for good reason dude's a freak. But I don't see that as the way we go. We have Backus and a first round pick in Cherilus who needs to play and learn under better coaching. On that note what about Rus Grimm? The guy is a very successful O-Line coach has been an OC for a while and great with O-Linemen.

Russ Grimm isn't detroit material. Besides, if you leave the steelers organization to go to arizona, that means a lot.

I'd almost suggest trying to get someone like Jeff Jagodzinski from GB. Love the man, has produced serious talent in O-Line when he was at BC... never flashy, but always solid, like what shanny has been able to do with absolutely no o-line talent some times, create a good conditioning system, workingmans approach to the o-line that'll resonate well with detroit and the black and blue division.

which brings me onto my next point. why is it the black and blue division when we have the viqueens?

woodnick
10-25-2008, 06:43 PM
Russ Grimm isn't detroit material. Besides, if you leave the steelers organization to go to arizona, that means a lot.

I'd almost suggest trying to get someone like Jeff Jagodzinski from GB. Love the man, has produced serious talent in O-Line when he was at BC... never flashy, but always solid, like what shanny has been able to do with absolutely no o-line talent some times, create a good conditioning system, workingmans approach to the o-line that'll resonate well with detroit and the black and blue division.

which brings me onto my next point. why is it the black and blue division when we have the viqueens?

Jeff is at BC currently, but I see your points

wingboy2999
10-25-2008, 06:57 PM
The Stafford Lion... would be the WORST nick name ever... hands down.

Prowler
10-25-2008, 08:22 PM
lol, i was trying...it would probably actually be the stafford loan because he'd hand the ball over all the time

SINCE1978
10-25-2008, 11:46 PM
I don't know if it matters to anyone, but Colt MCoy announed that he's gonna stay in school after this year. This isn't much of a surprise, but could anybody imagine if all of the junior QBs would have come out? Bradford, McCoy, Sanchez, and Stafford would have put us in a great position toget one of them potentially in the top of the 2nd if we choose to go in that direction. I've been pretty impressed with McCoy the last 2 weeks, most importantly his ability to go through his progressions and then his ability to buy time to give himself the opportunity to get the ball to the open man.

I agree, McCoy continues to impress in B12 play ... he's in hte zone. NOT sold that his game equates to the NFL. Maybe similar to another Colt from Hawaii last year, who looked awesome on Saturday's but just okay on Sunday???

Curious on the posts view of Sam Bradford.
Although just a sophmore he really has great command of Stoop's offense. My guess is he stays on campus 1 more year and he might be worthy of the Lion's 2010 pick. This way they draft/FA and build the leftside of the o-line in 09 and complement the hogs with the sexy pick the following year ... more than likely a top 10 pick. Plenty to marinate on there, curious of your (and others)thoughts on Bradford in 2010. :)

Xiomera
10-25-2008, 11:51 PM
I want Bradford in 2010. It was part of my offseason plan I typed up in that other thread.

When we took Harrington to (sort of) start the Millen rebuilding era (if there is such a thing), we took the QB first and then got the surrounding players. I'd rather solidify the O-Line, and make sure we've got someone other than CJ that the rookie QB can rely on (be it a RB, TE, whatever).

WMD
10-26-2008, 12:20 AM
I agree with you all on Bradford. He looks like he should be our next QB. But this year, I want OL or Defense in Round 1. But even if Bradford does declare, I'd pass on him if one of the LT's proves to be somewhere around equal value.

Xiomera
10-26-2008, 12:38 AM
I agree with you all on Bradford. He looks like he should be our next QB. But this year, I want OL or Defense in Round 1. But even if Bradford does declare, I'd pass on him if one of the LT's proves to be somewhere around equal value.

I just don't see the Lions taking a LT in the top 5. Still too much money invested in Backus.

I am hoping a defensive player moves up to be worthy of such high a pick if Bradford doesn't come out early.

Iamcanadian
10-26-2008, 03:23 AM
In all honesty, even though I whole hardily support drafting a QB, drafting a junior QB is too high a risk for me. I don't trust our scouting department's ability to assess talent never mind a junior QB. Besides I really doubt that many junior QB's will declare. I don't see any of them that are more than a 11-20 range prospect without a senior season under their belt.
Just my opinion but Bradford looks a lot like Harrington to me and I'd want to see him play as a senior before I'd use a top 5 pick on him.

woodnick
10-26-2008, 10:07 AM
I want Bradford in 2010. It was part of my offseason plan I typed up in that other thread.

When we took Harrington to (sort of) start the Millen rebuilding era (if there is such a thing), we took the QB first and then got the surrounding players. I'd rather solidify the O-Line, and make sure we've got someone other than CJ that the rookie QB can rely on (be it a RB, TE, whatever).

I fully believe in building the Oline and then getting our QB once we can protect him and provide him with an adequate running game, I think it'll help simplify the transition for the QB, hopefully.

The funny part of the rebuilding around Joey franchise is that the year before him we drafted Backus and Raiola, so we've already failed with this type of rebuilding plan...but what haven't we failed with? For the record I've never thought that Backus was good but I wasn't assessing talent at that time so I dont know if I would've agreed with the pick. We also drafted OT the 2 years previously (3 1st rd OT in 3 yrs)

Xiomera
10-26-2008, 12:17 PM
I fully believe in building the Oline and then getting our QB once we can protect him and provide him with an adequate running game, I think it'll help simplify the transition for the QB, hopefully.

The funny part of the rebuilding around Joey franchise is that the year before him we drafted Backus and Raiola, so we've already failed with this type of rebuilding plan...but what haven't we failed with? For the record I've never thought that Backus was good but I wasn't assessing talent at that time so I dont know if I would've agreed with the pick. We also drafted OT the 2 years previously (3 1st rd OT in 3 yrs)

Exactly. Stocker McDougal and Aaron Gibson were horrible.

Prowler
10-26-2008, 12:44 PM
so breaking down the top qbs...
stafford has the arm, bradford has the accuracy, and sanchez has the quick release

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/todd-mcshays-top-5-junior-class-qbs/1117410452

wingboy2999
10-26-2008, 12:49 PM
It is bad we are already looking at 2010... ah well.

wingboy2999
10-26-2008, 12:53 PM
Interesting... he has Stafford #1. And anyone else think he looks like a Southpark character in his picture?

Xiomera
10-26-2008, 12:55 PM
Interesting... he has Stafford #1. And anyone else think he looks like a Southpark character in his picture?


Fun fact: Stafford went to the same high school as Bobby Layne.

Prowler
10-26-2008, 12:56 PM
stafford looks like a 15 year old kid.

Prowler
10-26-2008, 12:59 PM
Fun fact: Stafford went to the same high school as Bobby Layne.

http://www.curseofbobbylayne.com/

so is stafford the man of prophecy? the one who will bring us championships? or should we trade the pick to pittsburgh?

wingboy2999
10-26-2008, 12:59 PM
Fun fact: Stafford went to the same high school as Bobby Layne.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh snap.

woodnick
10-26-2008, 03:36 PM
Exactly. Stocker McDougal and Aaron Gibson were horrible.

Stocker was better than what we have now, but that's not saying much. I think these guys' issues are just another example of the struggles of our past GM's, just imagine if those 3 ended up being above avg. LT, LT, and RT. Even James Stewart could have run the ball.

I still say build the line, a good line can make a avg QB and avg RB look good, just look at Emmitt Smith!

Prowler
10-26-2008, 03:54 PM
lol as if we haven't pissed cowboys fans off enough by wishing for their demise, we could start on emmitt smith now

SINCE1978
10-26-2008, 03:56 PM
I fully believe in building the Oline and then getting our QB once we can protect him and provide him with an adequate running game, I think it'll help simplify the transition for the QB, hopefully.

The funny part of the rebuilding around Joey franchise is that the year before him we drafted Backus and Raiola, so we've already failed with this type of rebuilding plan...but what haven't we failed with? For the record I've never thought that Backus was good but I wasn't assessing talent at that time so I dont know if I would've agreed with the pick. We also drafted OT the 2 years previously (3 1st rd OT in 3 yrs)

Hopefully for Christmas Santa brings us Lion's fans a whole new regime so the rebuild can truely begin in Detroit! For now it's fighting to get that first "W" and avoiding the dreadful 0-16 season.

woodnick
10-26-2008, 03:57 PM
lol as if we haven't pissed cowboys fans off enough by wishing for their demise, we could start on emmitt smith now

I'm just joking, I know he's better than his 4.8 40 time was.

woodnick
10-26-2008, 03:59 PM
Dallas pulled one out today, really pisses me off as a Lions fan. I guess now we even have to root for Brad Johnson to not play.

Prowler
10-26-2008, 04:24 PM
i just wish we played them this year. but i don't really see them beating the giants whom they play twice, then philly and pittsburgh. week 11 @ washington will signal their season. i see an 8-8 year for them though. romo has to come back to play against some elite hard hitting teams looking for his head.

wingboy2999
10-26-2008, 04:33 PM
Dallas pulled one out today, really pisses me off as a Lions fan. I guess now we even have to root for Brad Johnson to not play.

And of course it was Roy who had the TD. But it was soooooo much more the D then Johnson.

woodnick
10-26-2008, 09:33 PM
Has anybody on here ever read the book "the Blindside" about Michael Oher? I've always contemplated whether he's truly able to retain a complex NFL offense. Does anybody else have those concerns? I know it's probably just not him with that type of background, but knowing about it worries me none the less.

It's a shame because other than that book, he's the embodyment of a perfect LT prospect. He wouldn't have 1 negative about him that I can think of.

Prowler
10-27-2008, 12:21 PM
i've heard it mentioned a dozen or so times but never read it. i want to, just haven't gotten around to checking it out. maybe he's good enough to create an offense around his game.

WMD
10-27-2008, 04:45 PM
I think I like Andre Smith as the Best OT this year..

I also think it'd serve us well to win 3-4 Games this year which would land us maybe the 4th Pick. Saves us a nice bit of money in a draft where there doesn't seem to be even one elite prospect. Unfortunately, we may not be able to win that many games.. and we'll be stuck giving Matt Stafford a $75 Million contract.

woodnick
10-27-2008, 04:47 PM
I think I like Andre Smith as the Best OT this year..

I also think it'd serve us well to win 3-4 Games this year which would land us maybe the 4th Pick. Saves us a nice bit of money in a draft where there doesn't seem to be even one elite prospect.

Easier said than done

wingboy2999
10-27-2008, 08:04 PM
Is the gist of that book he is an idiot? I can't really tell if that is what you mean or not.

woodnick
10-27-2008, 09:45 PM
Is the gist of that book he is an idiot? I can't really tell if that is what you mean or not.

It's a really good book and should be on everybodies short list, but yeah basically this kid grew up in very bad conditions and lacked an educational foundation before some rich family adopted him while he was a junior in highschool and a top rated OT and guess what, the rich family are
Ole Miss boosters, but anyways he had such a low IQ that he was below learning disabled.

But he's a good kid and has come a long way and the family that adopted him did it to help him not get him to 'Ole Miss, and he's from Memphis which basically sends everybody to Ole Miss. Went to high school with Greg Hardy.

But, like I said, it's a great book and I recommend it to everybody.

wingboy2999
10-27-2008, 09:55 PM
I then retract my idiot statement.

woodnick
10-27-2008, 10:05 PM
I think I heard that he has a GPA of 3.4 or something now

giantsfan
10-29-2008, 05:32 AM
If you guys grabbed a LT and DE in the first and there was no QB worth the rd pick would Marcus Freeman be a good fit for my mock for you guys?

WMD
10-29-2008, 06:45 AM
I don't think we'll take a QB just to take one. We've got a Round 2 QB in Drew Stanton on the team still, and he hasn't played at all. I assume they would much rather run with him instead of taking a risk on another Round 2+ QB.

woodnick
10-29-2008, 10:14 AM
If you guys grabbed a LT and DE in the first and there was no QB worth the rd pick would Marcus Freeman be a good fit for my mock for you guys?

a CB, G, or WR/RS would probabl be better or if one of the top MLBs drop.

Prowler
10-29-2008, 01:56 PM
depends on our next permanate GM and coach. a top tier qb for 500,000 wouldn't hurt too bad if they thought stanton wasn't the answer and let orlovsky walk. we'd definately take our qb at the first pick though...or atleast we should

wingboy2999
10-29-2008, 03:49 PM
QB in the 1st or not at all.

Prowler
10-30-2008, 10:12 AM
unfortunately we're not making the pick

TickOffOurBestPlayer
10-30-2008, 10:22 AM
The NFL logic is flawed and if you guys take a QB with the first overall pick you'll be at the basement of the NFL for another 5-10 years.

You build the lines first and then you draft a franchise QB so he has the best chance at success.

A young QB behind you're Oline with only Calvin Johnson to throw too and a pathetic defense is set up for failure and will fail 99.9% of the time.

1. Brian Orakpo DE
1. Jason Smith LT
2. Darius Butler CB
3. Anthony Parker OG
3. Darry Beckwith ILB

That gives you Smith, Parker and Cherlius to help protect a QB and the start of a decent defensive foundation then in 2009 you can draft a franchise QB which greatly increases his chances of success. Hopefully you can find a good TE for him through free agency or the later rounds of 08, or 2nd/3rd of his year.

Iamcanadian
10-30-2008, 10:55 AM
The NFL logic is flawed and if you guys take a QB with the first overall pick you'll be at the basement of the NFL for another 5-10 years.

You build the lines first and then you draft a franchise QB so he has the best chance at success.

A young QB behind you're Oline with only Calvin Johnson to throw too and a pathetic defense is set up for failure and will fail 99.9% of the time.

1. Brian Orakpo DE
1. Jason Smith LT
2. Darius Butler CB
3. Anthony Parker OG
3. Darry Beckwith ILB

That gives you Smith, Parker and Cherlius to help protect a QB and the start of a decent defensive foundation then in 2009 you can draft a franchise QB which greatly increases his chances of success. Hopefully you can find a good TE for him through free agency or the later rounds of 08, or 2nd/3rd of his year.

No it is your logic that is completely flawed. Atlanta has a very below average OL and is starting a rookie at LT and it hasn't stopped Ryan one bit.
Peyton played behind a 2nd round rookie LT last year and it didn't slow him down either. Most QB's who flop in the NFL were drafted by extremely poor GM's with long records of drafting flops at a lot of positions.
The make up of a QB is what decides if he will flop or not not his OL. A NFL QB must be mentally tough and these guys aren't bothered by being sacked, they just get up, forget the last play and move on to the next. The ones who flop cannot do it.
GM's continue and always have drafted potential franchise QB's with the 1st pick since the draft came into being and they always will. By your standartds, Indy doesn't draft Peyton, the Giants pass on Eli, Philly would have passed on McNabb, San Diego passes on Rivers, and that is just some of the QB's of the current era. I could go on and name half the HOF QB's who were drafted by very weak teams, many with the 1st overall pick, who then turned their franchises around and led them to championships. Great QB's modivate their players to play better because they are great leaders.
Tell me, how are you going to get a shot at a franchise QB if you build up the team before looking for one. By the time Detroit has all the pieces in place, they will be drafting in the middle of the pack where you don't find franchise QB's.
The golden rule in the NFL is 'always draft a potential franchise QB if one is available when it's your pick because you never know when you will get a second chance if ever again'. Atlanta followed the golden rule and they are on their way to being a very tough team for the next decade or even longer.
Detroit hasn't had a franchise QB since Bobby Layne in the 50's and goes a long way towards explaining why we have made the playoffs only once during that time.

woodnick
11-01-2008, 10:09 AM
So T-MC just did an analysis of Stafford on college gameday and said that his kryptonite is being pressured. When there's a rush he doesn't know how to handle it and will make poor decisions throwing into coverga. Not sure that would be a good match with our current team.

But in all fairness, I don't know many QBs who don't struggle a lttle more when there's pressure from the D.

Prowler
11-01-2008, 05:33 PM
bench him for a couple of years, then he'll learn to appreciate that d in his face

wingboy2999
11-01-2008, 06:58 PM
bench him for a couple of years, then he'll learn to appreciate that d in his face

Ok... someone PLEASE make a joke at the expense of this post.

Xiomera
11-01-2008, 07:56 PM
Stafford sucked today. I'm glad he's playing his way out of top 5 consideration.

SINCE1978
11-01-2008, 09:52 PM
The NFL logic is flawed and if you guys take a QB with the first overall pick you'll be at the basement of the NFL for another 5-10 years.

You build the lines first and then you draft a franchise QB so he has the best chance at success.

A young QB behind you're Oline with only Calvin Johnson to throw too and a pathetic defense is set up for failure and will fail 99.9% of the time.

1. Brian Orakpo DE
1. Jason Smith LT
2. Darius Butler CB
3. Anthony Parker OG
3. Darry Beckwith ILB

That gives you Smith, Parker and Cherlius to help protect a QB and the start of a decent defensive foundation then in 2009 you can draft a franchise QB which greatly increases his chances of success. Hopefully you can find a good TE for him through free agency or the later rounds of 08, or 2nd/3rd of his year.

Orakpo might be damaged goods now, he just went down with what looks like a pretty serious knee injury against TTech tonight ... Like the idea of building in the trenches, let me give er a whirl:

1. M Crabtree TTech, WR
1. J. Maclin Mizzu, WR
..............
KIDDING!!!
..............

1. E. Monroe UVA, LT
1. M. Johnson Ga Tech, DE
2. H. Johnson LSU, G
3. D. Beckwith LSU, ILB
3. F. Moala USC, NT

That's some nastiness. Get the QB in 10' and let Culpepper (fresh from retirement) get served up on a platter over the next season and a half ;o) Good day ...

Xiomera
11-01-2008, 09:56 PM
I want 4 of the Lions first 5 picks to address the Offensive Line and Defensive Front 7. That other pick ought to be a CB or possibly a RB if they do not intend to resign Rudi.

Xiomera
11-01-2008, 10:55 PM
Damn Michael Crabtree is good.

Too bad we took all those WR's . . .

woodnick
11-01-2008, 10:57 PM
Damn Michael Crabtree is good.

Too bad we took all those WR's . . .

Dont Jinx us! But yes, he's a frickin Bad a**!

wingboy2999
11-02-2008, 11:55 AM
Damn Michael Crabtree is good.

Too bad we took all those WR's . . .

I was chanting "F Penn State" at the bar after that catch.

Prowler
11-02-2008, 02:14 PM
stafford-18 of 33 265 0td 3 int 2 sacks....florida is alright but they aren't the vikings, bears, or packers. moreno was shut down and stafford folded. i'm serious about benching him so he can appreciate the d in his face. you can't play scared, so what if you get hit? man up and make the play.

i think we're ok at qb for now. we can draft one next year if we have to. apparently culpepper came out of retirement and was more impressive than stanton at making the throws so we'll see how well orlovsky plays and how that unfolds. i am getting more convinced we'll end up either DE or OT with our top pick now.

Xiomera
11-02-2008, 02:26 PM
stafford-18 of 33 265 0td 3 int 2 sacks....florida is alright but they aren't the vikings, bears, or packers. moreno was shut down and stafford folded. i'm serious about benching him so he can appreciate the d in his face. you can't play scared, so what if you get hit? man up and make the play.

i think we're ok at qb for now. we can draft one next year if we have to. apparently culpepper came out of retirement and was more impressive than stanton at making the throws so we'll see how well orlovsky plays and how that unfolds. i am getting more convinced we'll end up either DE or OT with our top pick now.

Good news. Address other positions first. Namely the defense.

P-L
11-02-2008, 02:27 PM
stafford-18 of 33 265 0td 3 int 2 sacks....florida is alright but they aren't the vikings, bears, or packers. moreno was shut down and stafford folded. i'm serious about benching him so he can appreciate the d in his face. you can't play scared, so what if you get hit? man up and make the play.
Two of those interceptions were tipped. Only one of them was really his fault. Even then, it was a questionable no-call pass interference. Stafford wasn't great, but he was much better than his stat line.

Prowler
11-02-2008, 02:35 PM
i hope orakpo didn't get hurt too bad last night, he looks like freeney with the power of larry allen...well he looks like a fricken huge freeney that can bullrush along with the quick finesse stuff

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=481407

Xiomera
11-02-2008, 03:19 PM
Two of those interceptions were tipped. Only one of them was really his fault. Even then, it was a questionable no-call pass interference. Stafford wasn't great, but he was much better than his stat line.

I hear that a lot. He's like the opposite of Joey Harrington in that respect.

Xiomera
11-02-2008, 05:03 PM
In a perfect world, the Lions draft might go something like this:

1a - Offensive Tackle
1b - Defensive End
2 - Offensive Guard
3a - Defensive Tackle
3b - Linebacker

I'm hoping the Lions can sign a starting caliber CB this offseason.

wingboy2999
11-02-2008, 06:51 PM
In a perfect world, the Lions draft might go something like this:

1a - Offensive Tackle
1b - Defensive End
2 - Offensive Guard
3a - Defensive Tackle
3b - Linebacker

I'm hoping the Lions can sign a starting caliber CB this offseason.

I like looking at all those positions. Actually... probably in that order too. Maybe go DT in the 2nd.

Iamcanadian
11-02-2008, 06:54 PM
I believe the signing of Culpepper clearly indicates that the Lions don't think there will be a top 10 QB in this year's draft so they will now go in a different direction.
A lot is going to depend on our new GM and HC as to who we draft. I definitely perfer defense first, something has to be done to bring the defense up from the bottom of the league. However it will all come down to who is available when we draft and whether or not he is worth the value of our pick.
Remember, neither NE, Indy, San Diego, or the Giants have even a 1st rounder playing LT and while we might want to draft one, it leaves our defense as the most pitiful in the whole NFL.

My preference based on the strength of the upcoming draft might be:
1) MLB - I believe there will be a top 5 MLB in this year's draft.
1b) DE - There will be some very good DE available later in round 1
2) LT - If we get lucky we might find a decnt prospect.
3) DT/OLB - Draft the one who has the most value.
3b) RB - If we cannot resign Johnson then a RB will be a necessity.

Xiomera
11-02-2008, 06:59 PM
I believe the signing of Culpepper clearly indicates that the Lions don't think there will be a top 10 QB in this year's draft so they will now go in a different direction.
A lot is going to depend on our new GM and HC as to who we draft. I definitely perfer defense first, something has to be done to bring the defense up from the bottom of the league. However it will all come down to who is available when we draft and whether or not he is worth the value of our pick.
Remember, neither NE, Indy, San Diego, or the Giants have even a 1st rounder playing LT and while we might want to draft one, it leaves our defense as the most pitiful in the whole NFL.

My projection was based on who realistically will be worthy of a top pick. The OT's are the best of the draft at this point it seems. Greg Hardy and Michael Johnson don't appear to be top 3 talents.

And yeah wingy, 2nd round DT might be better based on a lack of anyone to play next to Redding next year.

woodnick
11-02-2008, 07:12 PM
My projection was based on who realistically will be worthy of a top pick. The OT's are the best of the draft at this point it seems. Greg Hardy and Michael Johnson don't appear to be top 3 talents.

And yeah wingy, 2nd round DT might be better based on a lack of anyone to play next to Redding next year.

They should have both Flullen and Cohen to play DT, plus they had a 3rd rookie (name eludes me right now) in training camp that they loved so I'm guessing he'll be here also if the coaching staff is back.

If Maranelli is gone, then I see a first day DT coming to us, someone that'll be over 320lbs.

Bootland27
11-02-2008, 08:32 PM
The defense has been terrible. We can't stop anybody, so the main priority has to be fixing the D-line in the 1st 2 rounds.

I'd go something like this:
1a. Brian Orakpo, DE (Basically looking for the best DE or defensive player)
1b. Duke Robinson, OG
2. BJ Raji, DT
3a. Jamon Meredith, LT
3b. Joe Burnett, CB

SINCE1978
11-02-2008, 08:52 PM
In a perfect world, the Lions draft might go something like this:

1a - Offensive Tackle
1b - Defensive End
2 - Offensive Guard
3a - Defensive Tackle
3b - Linebacker

I'm hoping the Lions can sign a starting caliber CB this offseason.

I like your order, I tend to agree ... which CB's are going to be free agents?

Bootland27
11-02-2008, 08:59 PM
I like your order, I tend to agree ... which CB's are going to be free agents?

These are the best CB free agents

Chris Gamble
Dunta Robinson
Nnamdi Asomugha (most likely be franchised)
Kelvin Hayden

Bruce Banner
11-02-2008, 09:00 PM
Gamble will **** the bed as soon as he leaves, in my opinion.

I would avoid giving him market value.

Typical contract year player.

Xiomera
11-02-2008, 09:10 PM
Gamble will **** the bed as soon as he leaves, in my opinion.

I would avoid giving him market value.

Typical contract year player.

Is Gamble still a great Punt Returner? Cause that would be a big plus for the Lions given that we currently have no one that should be returning kicks.

Bruce Banner
11-02-2008, 09:13 PM
Is Gamble still a great Punt Returner? Cause that would be a big plus for the Lions given that we currently have no one that should be returning kicks.

Probably is. I haven't seen enough of him returning punts to make an honest assessment though.

woodnick
11-03-2008, 11:54 AM
These are the best CB free agents

Chris Gamble
Dunta Robinson
Nnamdi Asomugha (most likely be franchised)
Kelvin Hayden


I would say Robinson, he's a pro bowl caliber CB who is coming off a knee injury which will likely lead to an off year and lower contract in the future, but he'll be fully recovered next year and will be a pimp, IMO

sweetd20
11-07-2008, 03:23 PM
I'm not sure if any of those guys are going to changing teams except for maybe Asomugha. The Raiders have to be starting to hurt in the cap department and probably would have a hard time fitting him in at the Tag price. The Lions are making a huge mistake with both Bodden and Smith and taking away the ability of two good man coverage guys and having them play more zone schemes. Will either one every be all-pro? Probably not but when given the chance they've shown they can be very good CBs in man coverage. I'd rahter see them have a chance to plat to their strength next year, draft a rookie in Round 1 or 2, bring in a guy like Jabari Greer for less money than the big names, or Justin Miller to at least add to the return game.

Super Bowl Lions
11-14-2008, 02:25 AM
At this point with the team and needs that we have now, this would be my draft.

1A- Brian Orakpo, DE, Texas
1B- Jason Smith, OT, Baylor
2- Clint Sintim, LB, Virginia

These picks are based on who will actually be available at the time the selection is made. I have seen some crazy picks on here, for example somebody said Oher would go to Detroit in the 3rd round....seriously that would be great, but that WILL NEVER happen. These picks may not be big names, but you will know about them come Draft time. Now these picks could change quite a bit all depending on who comes out early this year and what needs we address in free agency. Bottom line, all these picks are at positions of need, so you really can't go wrong.

mgoblue
11-14-2008, 09:02 AM
1A Andre Smith
1B Duke Robinson
2 Alex Mack
3A Brandon Graham
3B Darius Butler

Smith/Mack/Raiola/Robinson/Goz

not very likely to happen but man does that oline have the potential to be great.

Menardo75
11-14-2008, 01:58 PM
Spending your first two picks on lineman is awesome. I don't think that will happen though, since it does not generate much glammer with the press.

BRAVEHEART
11-14-2008, 02:15 PM
Spending your first two picks on lineman is awesome. I don't think that will happen though, since it does not generate much glammer with the press.

**** the press.

Prowler
11-16-2008, 05:28 PM
i just noticed espn's main draft page was updated and scouts inc added quite a few prospects including Everette Brown DE Florida State-#22, Eben Britton OT Arizona-#7th best prospect and higher than Oher, and Russell Okung OT OK State-18th and higher than Eugene Monroe.

i swear the influx of talent is making it outstanding for the lions right now. Monroe is now the 5th rated OT and Jason Smith is off the top 32 with all the Juniors. And George Selvie is potentially down around the 5th best DE. Its actually looking quite possible that previous mock drafts that would have put us with Eugene Monroe and George Selvie could now still happen...with neither one of them being drafted at #1.

realistically, i'd say our board now is probably
1a-Stafford or Bradford depending on who the GM likes
1b-Eugene Monroe-can't believe it but it might well be this easy to get him
2-George Selvie-stolen

Notredameleo
11-16-2008, 06:36 PM
Defense Defense Defense Defense

Xiomera
11-16-2008, 07:16 PM
Defense Defense Defense Defense

I say use all of our picks on defense. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

And spend any free agent money we have on an OG, WR, and TE.

Brothgar
11-16-2008, 08:34 PM
Defense Defense Defense Defense

Now that I think hard about that option the more it seems we will have to assuming that Rod is out at the end of the season it is pretty much certain that we are going to move to a 3-4 if we look at the who should be the next head coach thread all those guys are 3-4 guys. I would pretty much spend every pick on D and Duke Robinson. What we have for a 3-4 DE Cory Redding ILB Sims. CB Bodden CB Smith not great but it works FS SS Alexander Bullocks Cliff Avril OLB. IAF DE??? So what we really have to look at first would be DT ILB and OLB then DE and CB

1 If we can't trade down Rey Rey
1B George Selvie OLB
1C Trade 2nd and 4th to Philly for the 29th pick - Duke Robinson OG
2 Trade the rest of the draft to roll up into the 2nd roound for BJ Raji


D-Line Redding Raji IAF
LBs Avril Rey Sims Selvie
CB Bodden Smith
Safties Alexander Bullocks

Xiomera
11-16-2008, 08:37 PM
I am praying we switch to a 3-4. We'd be the only team in the division, and one of the only 3-4 teams in the conference actually. That's gotta be in some ways beneficial.

WMD
11-16-2008, 08:43 PM
The 3-4 next year would be nice, considering we don't play any form of defense this year.. it'll be nice to have some structure.

Prowler
11-17-2008, 12:42 PM
i would love to switch to 3-4, but if we don't then the cover 2 is meant to be played with a lead, so we'd be forced to just retool the offense and pass rush.

Prowler
11-18-2008, 06:55 AM
evander hood might even be available at top of the 3rd round. dts always fall

ChezPower4
11-18-2008, 07:53 AM
I am praying we switch to a 3-4. We'd be the only team in the division, and one of the only 3-4 teams in the conference actually. That's gotta be in some ways beneficial.

It would take a least 3 to 4 seasons to make this work. Your personnel right now does not fit this scheme at all but your not having much success with the scheme your using couldn't hurt to try.

detknowitall
11-18-2008, 02:32 PM
Would you guys trade the #1 over all pick for Philly's 2 pics at lets say #12 and #14? For the arguements sake lets say we're getting the pick from Dallas at #22 or #24

woodnick
11-18-2008, 03:11 PM
Would you guys trade the #1 over all pick for Philly's 2 pics at lets say #12 and #14? For the arguements sake lets say we're getting the pick from Dallas at #22 or #24

Good question, I feel that it's very tempting, but to me it really depends on how the draft process plays out. Specifically how our front office decides on drafting a 1st round QB and how many Juniors come out.

For instance, say we get a new coach and new GM and both of them want to start the rebuilding around a new QB, but only Stafford comes out. That would mean that we have to take Stafford #1 or not get a QB this year.

I like having 3 1sts, and I guessing the amountof money for #12 and #14 might combine to be around equal to the #1 pick so that would be okay in my opinion, but we would probably be out of out of luck with a top 3 OT and top 2 DE.

At 12 we should be in line to get a good MLB and maybe Jason Smith or Greg Hardy. But dropping past #5 would be very risky to me, but it all depends on who comes out and where their grades are at after the combine and prodays.

DoWnThEfiElD
11-18-2008, 03:13 PM
The question is why would Philly want to do that?

WMD
11-18-2008, 03:49 PM
I wouldn't trade #1 for #12 and #14. To me, it's just not enough compensation for the talent drop off.

Prowler
11-18-2008, 04:01 PM
a list of 2008 rookie salaries from nfl.com
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d808c2409&template=with-video&confirm=true

personal estimates if we stayed at #1
if we took stafford-6 years $72-75 million
for comparison: derek anderson signed a 3 yr, 24million contract last year.

if we took andre smith- 5 years $60 million

for arguments sake
#12 or #14 Sanchez-5 years $40 million
#12 or #14 OT-5 year $17-19 million
DE at that spot would probably be around 5 years 24-28 million

so yeah i'd probably love taking philly's pick.

Prowler
11-18-2008, 04:13 PM
1st Round Talent Depending on who declares/works out well

OT
Andre Smith Junior
Michael Oher
Jason Smith
Eugene Monroe
Eben Britton-Arizona Junior
Russell Okung-OK State Junior
Ciron Black-LSU Junior i'd say he's fringe

DE
Orakpo
Johnson
Hardy Junior
Selvie Junior

throw in maualuga, Laurinitais, spikes, the qbs, and crabtree and the receivers pushing talent down the board and we should still be in great shape.

talentwise i'd rather have andre smith and orakpo but if i could get smith, hardy, and sign derek anderson then everything should be fine.

detknowitall
11-18-2008, 04:53 PM
Good question, I feel that it's very tempting, but to me it really depends on how the draft process plays out. Specifically how our front office decides on drafting a 1st round QB and how many Juniors come out.

For instance, say we get a new coach and new GM and both of them want to start the rebuilding around a new QB, but only Stafford comes out. That would mean that we have to take Stafford #1 or not get a QB this year.



I'm really not big on picking a QB this year. I'd rather see how Pep, or Stanton do. And I'd much rather fix the O-Line before we put a rookie back there.

The #1 pick is actually worth 3000pts on the trade chart and the #14 and #16 are worth about 2200pts combined. So by that sense Philly is making out like a bandit. I just think with 3 first round picks we could reall re-tool our line with 2 OL picks, and with the 3rd grab the best Defensive player available. Then devote the rest of the draft to Defense.

I know part of it has to do with how the draft falls, but with the shape that the Lions are in its not like you have to target 1 specific position. You need almost everything but a kicker and punter. So you can grab the best players at any position when that pick comes up.

sweetd20
11-18-2008, 05:14 PM
The problem is with the cap hit from those top picks the old value chart is obsolete. I also think the Eagles have enough of their own problems thanks to age at some positions that they'd be better suited with the picks they have.

If anything the Lions should institute the draft approach of trading away their second 1st rounder for a 2nd rounder and a #1 next season. That is unless an absolute stud player happens to be sitting at that second pick. Right now Detroit needs to hope one or two players in the draft really wow a couple of GMs near the top of the draft. Then they can slide back a spot or two and still land a highly rated prospect without breaking the bank and at least grab a high 2nd rounder to go along with the discount.

WMD
11-18-2008, 05:16 PM
I'd do it for their two firsts and a first/3rd next year :)

Prowler
11-18-2008, 05:25 PM
and demarcus ware

detknowitall
11-18-2008, 06:01 PM
The problem is with the cap hit from those top picks the old value chart is obsolete. I also think the Eagles have enough of their own problems thanks to age at some positions that they'd be better suited with the picks they have.

If anything the Lions should institute the draft approach of trading away their second 1st rounder for a 2nd rounder and a #1 next season. That is unless an absolute stud player happens to be sitting at that second pick. Right now Detroit needs to hope one or two players in the draft really wow a couple of GMs near the top of the draft. Then they can slide back a spot or two and still land a highly rated prospect without breaking the bank and at least grab a high 2nd rounder to go along with the discount.


Actually Draft picks are paid for out of the rookie pool so cap hits are minimal. http://www.nflplayers.com/user/content.aspx?fmid=178&lmid=443&pid=838 is a basic explaination of that. The #14 and #16 picks would be less in combned income than the #1 overall. So from a salary paid standpoint its actually much less.

The point of the question is not if the eagles would benefit. But rather that would people here be happy with a trade like that. For me the big thing is that we have a terrible track record for picking "the right guy" so the more picks we have the more chances we have at hitting the right guys. So for me its quantity over quality.

WMD
11-18-2008, 06:59 PM
That's a loser way of thinking. We need talent.. not just a lot of new players. I'm hoping we go with a safe pick at #1 (Andre Smith) and then maybe gamble a little bit and go with a High Risk/High Reward guy with our second Round 1.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
11-18-2008, 07:18 PM
I don't see the Eagles moving up to number 1. They have some holes. Runywan is old, and Tra Thomas is a free agent and old too. So they need some tackles. Eagles have traded out of the first round the last 2 drafts. Also they seem to take D-line every draft.

We need an absolute stud. First pick gives us a decent chance at this, of course it could be another monumental bust but with a new GM lets hope not. Plus we still have a second first round pick and a pick at the top of the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

I'll take a beast Left Tackle or Defensive End. QB we could use a franchise QB but without the trenches on O and D this team will continue to be awful.

Prowler
11-18-2008, 08:01 PM
round 1 is nothing but talent, i'm down with whatever gets us the most picks. i don't see too many true eyepoppers that the #2 guy on the board couldn't do just as well. the only people who might qualify on that front would be orakpo, whatever top qb comes out, and andre smith. and i like oher's run blocking and hate the qbs, so it's debately what we'd actually lose.

Xiomera
11-18-2008, 08:12 PM
a list of 2008 rookie salaries from nfl.com
http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d808c2409&template=with-video&confirm=true

personal estimates if we stayed at #1
if we took stafford-6 years $72-75 million
for comparison: derek anderson signed a 3 yr, 24million contract last year.

if we took andre smith- 5 years $60 million

for arguments sake
#12 or #14 Sanchez-5 years $40 million
#12 or #14 OT-5 year $17-19 million
DE at that spot would probably be around 5 years 24-28 million

so yeah i'd probably love taking philly's pick.

Stafford might even get more than that. Look how much Matt Ryan got at #3.

One false move and we're screwed financially. We gotta avoid Stafford.

sweetd20
11-18-2008, 08:23 PM
Unless a DE shows a whole lot between now and draft day I'm not really sold on any of them as being worthy of a 1st round selection. I like Orakpo and Hardy the most right now out of the top guys but their injuries leave me with a big question mark. At this point it has to be BPA at key positions for both picks if they don't move those picks. I think LT will hold the most value near the top. After taht I have no problem with LG, QB (depending which guys declare), LB, DB, or even a TE with the second 1st round pick. A combo of one of the top LTs and a LG like Robinson, Johnson, Parker, or Vazquez at some point early in the draft would be a welcome sight. If they can get some solid paly from the young guys on the leftside of that O-line I think the rest of the offense will start to fall into place. I'm all for a QB as well but this is going to be at least a three year process. So if they don't find a QB this year they can grab one next year and hopefully have an improved O-line for him to play behind.

DoWnThEfiElD
11-18-2008, 08:55 PM
Stafford might even get more than that. Look how much Matt Ryan got at #3.

One false move and we're screwed financially. We gotta avoid Stafford.

No matter what the #1 overall pick is going to demand a lot of guaranteed money. I really don't think that difference will be that much with whoever we take their, and I can't see many teams wanting to trade into our position either. Basically Stafford's contract may seem like more than someone else's, but I bet the guaranteed money will be about the same.

detknowitall
11-19-2008, 12:40 PM
That's a loser way of thinking. We need talent.. not just a lot of new players. I'm hoping we go with a safe pick at #1 (Andre Smith) and then maybe gamble a little bit and go with a High Risk/High Reward guy with our second Round 1.

Actually thats a pretty good way to go about acquiring talent. Just ask the Patriots about acquiring more picks rather than just one stud. Grabbing one guy high in the draft is not the best way to guarantee talent. These guys havent even stepped on the field yet. Just having a high draft status is no guarantee of success. Just ask Mike Williams, Joey Harrington, or Charles Rogers to name a few. If you want to say its just the Lions that are that way then I'm sure Alex Smith, Matt Leinart, Cedric benson, Pacman Jones, Robert Gallery, Johnathan Sullivan, Jimmy Kennedy, and countless others can testify to the quantity of Busts at the top.

The more picks you have in the top 50 players the better the chance that you'll find your stud.

Not to mention, Alex Smith, Robert Gallery, and Charles Rogers, and Cedric Benson were all considered low risk safe picks.

WMD
11-19-2008, 05:33 PM
I'm hoping our first round is like the Ravens 1996 first round. #4 Overall was Jonathan Ogden.. and #26 was Ray Lewis.

Let's stick to the same positions. OT Andre Smith and LB Rey Maualuga!

Menardo75
11-19-2008, 05:42 PM
Sounds like a good plan to me.

Brothgar
11-19-2008, 05:44 PM
I'm hoping our first round is like the Ravens 1996 first round. #4 Overall was Jonathan Ogden.. and #26 was Ray Lewis.

Let's stick to the same positions. OT Andre Smith and LB Rey Maualuga!

2 HOFers and a bunch of nobodies?

WMD
11-19-2008, 06:35 PM
2 HOFers and a bunch of nobodies?

Considering we have bad luck even drafting quality starters.. I'd take two Hall of Famers and a bunch of nobodies out of this draft. Especially at big time positions like MLB and LT.

Prowler
11-20-2008, 10:22 AM
i wasn't thinking about the ravens, but that is interesting. sign me up! andre smith and maualuga it is. all we have to do is switch schemes because cover 2 blows.

detknowitall
11-20-2008, 03:14 PM
Probably just a matter of Opinion but I'd prefer Oher and Laurinaitis. If we have 2 picks.

DoWnThEfiElD
11-20-2008, 03:17 PM
If we do a Ravens thing its gotta be Smith and Spikes. He is the best linebacker with the most potential this year.

Iamcanadian
11-20-2008, 03:49 PM
No matter what the #1 overall pick is going to demand a lot of guaranteed money. I really don't think that difference will be that much with whoever we take their, and I can't see many teams wanting to trade into our position either. Basically Stafford's contract may seem like more than someone else's, but I bet the guaranteed money will be about the same.

There is no difference in guaranteed money whether you draft an OT or a QB. The #1 overall pick gets last year's #1 pick money plus a percentage increase Position doesn't play a part.
After studing a lot of film I'm rooting for Stafford plus Hardy. Both seem possible to me. I had my doubts about Stafford especially if he comes out as a junior but I now believe he is clearly an elite talent. It's a risk but that's how you build winning franchises. H.mmm, NE, Indy and Pittsburgh don't have 1st round LT's, neither does Tennessee or the Giants yet they are all playoff bound or have won SB's. I'm still for building a championship team and not for playing it safe which rarely works in the NFL anyways. If we land a franchise QB, we will be among the few teams which have one and most of them go to the playoffs every year as serious contenders for the SB. The risk is easily worth the possible rewards.

Xiomera
11-20-2008, 05:53 PM
There is no difference in guaranteed money whether you draft an OT or a QB. The #1 overall pick gets last year's #1 pick money plus a percentage increase Position doesn't play a part.
After studing a lot of film I'm rooting for Stafford plus Hardy. Both seem possible to me. I had my doubts about Stafford especially if he comes out as a junior but I now believe he is clearly an elite talent. It's a risk but that's how you build winning franchises. H.mmm, NE, Indy and Pittsburgh don't have 1st round LT's, neither does Tennessee or the Giants yet they are all playoff bound or have won SB's. I'm still for building a championship team and not for playing it safe which rarely works in the NFL anyways. If we land a franchise QB, we will be among the few teams which have one and most of them go to the playoffs every year as serious contenders for the SB. The risk is easily worth the possible rewards.

I will be making a conscious effort to watch all of Georgia's remaining games this year to see more Stafford.

I don't think the fact that all those top NFL don't have a 1st round OT is really all that significant, however. A top flight LT is always gonna be majorly beneficial. It won't win us a championship but its undeniably one of the most helpful positions to have a stud at. It just alleviates so many concerns on offense.

Prowler
11-21-2008, 12:25 PM
this makes me higher on maualuga.
USC defense is No. 1 in the nation in scoring defense (8.3 ppg) and passing defense (132.3 ypg), No. 2 in total defense (222.5 ypg).

DoWnThEfiElD
11-21-2008, 12:55 PM
There is no difference in guaranteed money whether you draft an OT or a QB. The #1 overall pick gets last year's #1 pick money plus a percentage increase Position doesn't play a part.
After studing a lot of film I'm rooting for Stafford plus Hardy. Both seem possible to me. I had my doubts about Stafford especially if he comes out as a junior but I now believe he is clearly an elite talent. It's a risk but that's how you build winning franchises. H.mmm, NE, Indy and Pittsburgh don't have 1st round LT's, neither does Tennessee or the Giants yet they are all playoff bound or have won SB's. I'm still for building a championship team and not for playing it safe which rarely works in the NFL anyways. If we land a franchise QB, we will be among the few teams which have one and most of them go to the playoffs every year as serious contenders for the SB. The risk is easily worth the possible rewards.

Ya that basically sums up how I feel.

I like Stafford a lot. He started in the SEC at 18. His line is horrible now, so he isn't putting up numbers because he has 20 sec in the pocket like Big 12 QBs. I think he is the most NFL ready college quarterback because of experiences like those playing in the SEC.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
11-21-2008, 01:05 PM
There is no difference in guaranteed money whether you draft an OT or a QB. The #1 overall pick gets last year's #1 pick money plus a percentage increase Position doesn't play a part.
After studing a lot of film I'm rooting for Stafford plus Hardy. Both seem possible to me. I had my doubts about Stafford especially if he comes out as a junior but I now believe he is clearly an elite talent. It's a risk but that's how you build winning franchises. H.mmm, NE, Indy and Pittsburgh don't have 1st round LT's, neither does Tennessee or the Giants yet they are all playoff bound or have won SB's. I'm still for building a championship team and not for playing it safe which rarely works in the NFL anyways. If we land a franchise QB, we will be among the few teams which have one and most of them go to the playoffs every year as serious contenders for the SB. The risk is easily worth the possible rewards.

Position does actually matter. Matt Ryan got more guranteed at 3 than Jake Long. There is a a set % increase about 8 %, but also QBs often times get a little extra money because the QB position is so important. Especially in incentives too. Easier to give incentive bonuses to QBs as opposed to Left Tackles. For instance, Quinn got a little more money(hence his hold out) because he's a QB. That being said, if the new GM wants a QB and thinks Stafford can be a franchise QB, I will not be opposed. However, I think LT is the safer bet. Top 5 LT goes bust a lot less than top 5 QB % wise.

Prowler
11-21-2008, 02:10 PM
we need a lions' law to put into effect a structured salary system for nfl draft picks. the only people who wouldn't vote against such a system are a handful of stars who may have better bargaining positions by complaining about the money spent on top rookie draft picks. and frankly they should love it because it would be more money that the owners could spend on them.

there are times when i think we should just trade #1 for derek anderson or equivalent talent and call it a day. cheaper, highly unconventional, but it gets the young pro bowl qb, and only $16million over 2 years left on his contract. we can't afford to screw that top pick up, i'd rather be gunshy than mess that pick up. heck there are probably a few top tier DEs in the league right now that we could just offer the #1 pick and then take him. john abraham was for the #29th pick not too long ago. stafford better have a low end as Jay Cutler.

DoWnThEfiElD
11-21-2008, 03:00 PM
You don't draft a position over another position because of percentages of busts. When you draft a guy that high your organization sees him as a franchise player. It's going to come down to how evaluates the players, history and percentages don't matter.

Iamcanadian
11-22-2008, 01:10 AM
Position does actually matter. Matt Ryan got more guranteed at 3 than Jake Long. There is a a set % increase about 8 %, but also QBs often times get a little extra money because the QB position is so important. Especially in incentives too. Easier to give incentive bonuses to QBs as opposed to Left Tackles. For instance, Quinn got a little more money(hence his hold out) because he's a QB. That being said, if the new GM wants a QB and thinks Stafford can be a franchise QB, I will not be opposed. However, I think LT is the safer bet. Top 5 LT goes bust a lot less than top 5 QB % wise.


Actually they bust as LT's a lot more than people realize. However, they then get moved to RT or OG so they aren't usually complete busts, but for the money they are making, failure as a LT still makes drafting them risky. Unfortunately, QB's cannot be moved to other positions so it's success or bust when you draft one.
However, the success rate for QB's is still pretty good and if you remove the teams that are noted for drafting busts at any position from the equation, the better teams have a pretty high success rate when drafting QB in round 1. Of course we are the Lions so whoever we draft will probably carry a high bust factor with him whatever position he plays..

detknowitall
11-22-2008, 10:15 AM
Actually they bust as LT's a lot more than people realize. However, they then get moved to RT or OG so they aren't usually complete busts, but for the money they are making, failure as a LT still makes drafting them risky. Unfortunately, QB's cannot be moved to other positions so it's success or bust when you draft one...


This is why position flexibility has to figure into where you drafft someone.

Here's my beef with drafting a QB #1 this year. Its a pretty good chance that Stafford will be the #1 QB this year. But I still dont see him being any better than anything on the roster or anything better than whats in FA this year. I just dont think he's as good as a top 5 pick. For that matter I dont see any player this year that stands out so much as a top 5 pick. When we picked Calvin Johnson he was the concensus far and away the best player in the draft. There is nothing like that this year. We would be wise to trade down from #1 even if it is not a blockbuster deal and acquire as many top 50 picks as we can. Or ala eagles trade down in this years draft as well as pick up future 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round picks.

J-Hype
11-25-2008, 12:10 AM
I like this with the addition of Leonard Pope, the raiders cornerback, and maybe dansby

1a. Brian Orokpo- Brings pass rush and helps are dline
1b. James Laurinitus- gives us a guy in the middle and helps linebacker core
2. Terrance Taylor or a man handleing nose tackle to replace rodgers
3a. Alex Boone helps are dreadful O Line
3b. Jarret Diller or a speedy returner that could also contribute as slot guy.
5.any OL or bpa
6. Britt Miller- is a leader and will help lb core
6. OL need help their bad

familyguy555
11-28-2008, 09:43 PM
Sign Jordan Gross and Dunta Robinson (I doubt we'll get both though)

1a) Brian Orakpo DE
1b) Brandon Spikes MLB
2) Alex Mack C
3a) Andy Levitre OG
3b) Chase Coffman TE
4) Devin Moore RB/KR

Only doing 4 rounds

Bosanac01
11-28-2008, 10:13 PM
Sign Jordan Gross and Dunta Robinson (I doubt we'll get both though)

1a) Brian Orakpo DE
1b) Brandon Spikes MLB
2) Alex Mack C
3a) Andy Levitre OG
3b) Chase Coffman TE
4) Devin Moore RB/KR

Only doing 4 rounds

Wow, you have some real high hopes there. I doubt alex mack falls beyond round one and the second best TE in the draft will go before the 3rd round.

detroit4life
11-28-2008, 10:23 PM
1a. oher
1b. spikes
2a. brandon graham
3a. best DT
3b. best OG

Iamcanadian
11-28-2008, 10:50 PM
This is why position flexibility has to figure into where you drafft someone.

Here's my beef with drafting a QB #1 this year. Its a pretty good chance that Stafford will be the #1 QB this year. But I still dont see him being any better than anything on the roster or anything better than whats in FA this year. I just dont think he's as good as a top 5 pick. For that matter I dont see any player this year that stands out so much as a top 5 pick. When we picked Calvin Johnson he was the concensus far and away the best player in the draft. There is nothing like that this year. We would be wise to trade down from #1 even if it is not a blockbuster deal and acquire as many top 50 picks as we can. Or ala eagles trade down in this years draft as well as pick up future 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round picks.

Trading out of the #1 overall pick is basically a pipe dream unless a GM believes as I do that Stafford is the real deal, that is the only position a team will trade up for to get the #1 overall pick. If other GM's think Stafford is the real deal why would we trade the pick???
Calvin Johnson will never be a star unless we find a solid starting QB to get him the ball.

detroit4life
11-28-2008, 11:02 PM
or give an average QB a line so that he can actually sit in the pocket and let a play develop. a great Qb cannot get CJ the ball if he's on the ground or hurt. We've had 3 qbs get hurt already this year doesnt that say anyhting?

Bosanac01
11-28-2008, 11:02 PM
Trading out of the #1 overall pick is basically a pipe dream unless a GM believes as I do that Stafford is the real deal, that the only position a team will trade up for to get the #1 overall pick. If other GM's think Stafford is the real deal why would we trade the pick???Calvin Johnson will never be a star unless we find a solid starting QB to get him the ball.

Calvin Johnson will never be a star unless...

1) you get a good QB

2) get a good OL to buy time

3) have a decend running game

4) have another receiving target

detroit4life
11-28-2008, 11:06 PM
recieving target means little depending on the scheme. If you have a #2 like mcdonald or furrey it should be enough.

Let me remind you that CJ is legitimately a star he just is on a losing team and doesnt get the attention his play and stats deserve. He has put up some of the best numbers in the NFL as a reciever

Bosanac01
11-28-2008, 11:29 PM
I love CJ but he's just not gonna get attention when lions suck ass.

detknowitall
11-29-2008, 08:18 PM
Why is it that people think we need a better QB?

Joey was ....well Joey.
Jeff Garcia was good QB proved by his time in Philly, and his time in Tampa.
Kitna is not going to be a hall of famer, but he's not bad either.
Orlovsky even shows flashes of capabilities
Stanton doesnt have that much time in but the time he does have is has been good.

At what point don't people start to realize that you can put Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Joe Montana, John Elway, or Dan Marino back there they will all get killed until we have a decent O-Line.


The proof was Scott Mitchell. When he was QB he was no better than Kitna, Garcia, or Culpepper.....Yet we had an Oline that could be put up against the best in the NFL at that time. Its not really a stat thats tracked but I'll bet we have the most amount of busted QB protections. Think of the best rookie QB's they all have or had decent O-lines. Until we fix the O-Line we're screwed.

toddmlazarchick
11-29-2008, 08:46 PM
Why is it that people think we need a better QB?

Joey was ....well Joey.
Jeff Garcia was good QB proved by his time in Philly, and his time in Tampa.
Kitna is not going to be a hall of famer, but he's not bad either.
Orlovsky even shows flashes of capabilities
Stanton doesnt have that much time in but the time he does have is has been good.

At what point don't people start to realize that you can put Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Joe Montana, John Elway, or Dan Marino back there they will all get killed until we have a decent O-Line.


The proof was Scott Mitchell. When he was QB he was no better than Kitna, Garcia, or Culpepper.....Yet we had an Oline that could be put up against the best in the NFL at that time. Its not really a stat thats tracked but I'll bet we have the most amount of busted QB protections. Think of the best rookie QB's they all have or had decent O-lines. Until we fix the O-Line we're screwed.

Sorry your not gonna win squat without a QB. Kitna or Culpepper is not going to lead your team.

WMD
11-29-2008, 11:22 PM
Andre Smith has to be the #1 Overall Pick. I think he's the greatest talent in the draft this year if he declares. He's been consistent all year, he's the LT on the #1 Team in the Nation, with one of the best rushing offenses. I think he's the closest to "Elite" at his position than anyone else this year.

bigredballer
11-30-2008, 12:14 AM
I still think we have to address the Defense first if we want any shot at winning in the next 5-7 years. I'm not sold on Matt Stafford and would much rather take a chance on waiting for Sam Bradford next year, if he comes out.

If we don't go Defense, we need to shore up the O-line. Anyone can throw it up to CJ....anyone, and Smith is serviceable enough to run behind a decent line.

Pittsburgh has a good QB, but they don't go anywhere without their D. Look at San Diego, perfect example, they lost major playmakers on D and are struggling with a good QB. Defense is most important right now.

Iamcanadian
11-30-2008, 12:15 AM
Andre Smith has to be the #1 Overall Pick. I think he's the greatest talent in the draft this year if he declares. He's been consistent all year, he's the LT on the #1 Team in the Nation, with one of the best rushing offenses. I think he's the closest to "Elite" at his position than anyone else this year.

I love Smith but I think Stafford is elite as well and and you draft a franchise QB over a LT every day of the week IMO and almost all GM's agree.

Iamcanadian
11-30-2008, 12:27 AM
I still think we have to address the Defense first if we want any shot at winning in the next 5-7 years. I'm not sold on Matt Stafford and would much rather take a chance on waiting for Sam Bradford next year, if he comes out.

If we don't go Defense, we need to shore up the O-line. Anyone can throw it up to CJ....anyone, and Smith is serviceable enough to run behind a decent line.

Pittsburgh has a good QB, but they don't go anywhere without their D. Look at San Diego, perfect example, they lost major playmakers on D and are struggling with a good QB. Defense is most important right now.

The trouble is that when you look at NE, Indy, Pittsburgh, the Giants, and almost every dynasty that has ever been, they all had franchise QB's. Teams with great defenses win occassionally, teams with franchise QB's win most of the time.
I do agree that defense should come right after QB and given that we are in for a long rebuilding process, you get the franchise QB when the opportunity knocks and then go out and build around him. Besides right now only 2 players are getting a super elite ranking, Stafford and Smith so we will have to take one or the other.
If Stafford and Bradford receive a high rating from the NFL advisory committee indicating a top 5 placement, you have to wonder if they declare knowing Detroit will take one of them. If it was me, I'd pass on the opportunity and wait a year to get with an organization that has some chance of winning.

woodnick
11-30-2008, 09:13 AM
The trouble is that when you look at NE, Indy, Pittsburgh, the Giants, and almost every dynasty that has ever been, they all had franchise QB's. Teams with great defenses win occassionally, teams with franchise QB's win most of the time.
I do agree that defense should come right after QB and given that we are in for a long rebuilding process, you get the franchise QB when the opportunity knocks and then go out and build around him. Besides right now only 2 players are getting a super elite ranking, Stafford and Smith so we will have to take one or the other.
If Stafford and Bradford receive a high rating from the NFL advisory committee indicating a top 5 placement, you have to wonder if they declare knowing Detroit will take one of them. If it was me, I'd pass on the opportunity and wait a year to get with an organization that has some chance of winning.


God, I don't know if I could live through a Elway/Baltimore or Eli/S.D. type of draft. That would be kind of funny, but in a REAL sad way!

I made it a point to watch the game yesterday to see Stafford in a big game atmosphere against a same/lesser opponent and I didn't come away very impressed. He did have some very nice plays, like his scramble in hs end zone that he broke 2 or 3 tackles but then once he gets out he doesn't do anything with the opportunity. There's no denying his ability to throw a 15 yd out to the field side, but I can't get past his poor decision making.

If he gets in a system where he doesn't have to go through more than 1 read and runs a lot of timing passes (W.C. Offense) I think he can be successful, but in a pro-style system I think he'll have around 3 yrs of learning until he's ready to play.

The other thing that turns me off from him, and I know its bad, s that he just looks like a lazy slob. If he takes conditioning serious and gets down to about 220-225 then I might be more willing to accept his potential.

I know Bradford doesn't have the same type of arm strength, but its adequate and he seems more than smart enough to be able to adjust to a pro-style O rather quickly. I really like his ability to go through his reads and find the right place to throw the ball. He rarely tries to force a throw/makes bad decisions and, IMO, thats the type of guy we need.

georgiafan
12-01-2008, 07:36 AM
If he gets in a system where he doesn't have to go through more than 1 read and runs a lot of timing passes (W.C. Offense) I think he can be successful, but in a pro-style system I think he'll have around 3 yrs of learning until he's ready to play.

The other thing that turns me off from him, and I know its bad, s that he just looks like a lazy slob. If he takes conditioning serious and gets down to about 220-225 then I might be more willing to accept his potential.


He did lose 10 pounds over this past offseason FYI

woodnick
12-01-2008, 10:43 AM
He did lose 10 pounds over this past offseason FYI

He still looks like a fat bastard, FYI

Brothgar
12-01-2008, 01:47 PM
Why is it that people think we need a better QB?

Joey was ....well Joey.
Jeff Garcia was good QB proved by his time in Philly, and his time in Tampa.
Kitna is not going to be a hall of famer, but he's not bad either.
Orlovsky even shows flashes of capabilities
Stanton doesnt have that much time in but the time he does have is has been good.

At what point don't people start to realize that you can put Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Joe Montana, John Elway, or Dan Marino back there they will all get killed until we have a decent O-Line.


The proof was Scott Mitchell. When he was QB he was no better than Kitna, Garcia, or Culpepper.....Yet we had an Oline that could be put up against the best in the NFL at that time. Its not really a stat thats tracked but I'll bet we have the most amount of busted QB protections. Think of the best rookie QB's they all have or had decent O-lines. Until we fix the O-Line we're screwed.

But it isn't like we havn't had OLmen go other places and be successful. Kyle Kosier is starting for the Cowboys. Damien Woody is having a good year with the Jets. Granted neither of them were LT's but it isn't like every OLman we ever had has been terrible.

woodnick
12-01-2008, 02:07 PM
Heres a nice article:

http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081201/SPORTS0101/812010364/1126

BcLion
12-03-2008, 08:05 AM
I am all for trading down out of the top ten this year and this article pretty much explains my thoughts on why. Also I would be willing to take less then normal value as this years draft is so deep it would more then make up for it.

Check this out from Mlive. Ignore the Mayhew part of it and think more along the draft to get my meaning..






One, it's going to be the first major influx of talent for the new regime (and it still will be a new regime even if Mayhew gets the job). Two, the Lions likely will have the top pick in the draft and a total of four choices in the top 65. Third, this is expected to be one of the deepest and most talent-laden drafts, possibly ever.

The reason for the high volume of talent is because of the NFL's labor situation. Agents and representatives are getting the word out to underclassmen that they'd better declare for the draft now because if there's a new collective bargaining agreement in 2010, there is likely to be a severe rookie cap.

It's also possible that free agency, whether there's a new agreement or not, will be extended beyond the current four years. The sooner a player comes out, the quicker he'll reach unrestricted free agency and have a better opportunity to cash in.

So this could basically be a double-draft class at all positions while the 2010 draft could be extremely thin -- another reason why the Lions must strike it rich now.

The Lions already have eight picks this year and they're hoping to get another one: a possible mid-round compensatory pick for losing free agents, most notably tackle Damien Woody to the New York Jets.

One of Detroit's picks is a third-rounder they got from the Dallas Cowboys for receiver Roy Williams. If the Cowboys fail to make the playoffs, the Lions will have five picks in the top 85.

By making the right moves in the draft, the Lions could get well in a hurry just like the Atlanta Falcons did this season.

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2008/12/mayhew_playing_big_role_in_lio.html

woodnick
12-03-2008, 10:33 AM
Nice article, brings some hope to our team.

I think a lot of people agree with you on trading out of the top spot, but the problem is finding a dancing partner. We aren't the only team that is going to recognize how deep this class is so there will be a premium put on 2nds and 3rds, and to add that to the potentially cripling effect of the top pick money (especially in this current economy) I think it will be VERY difficult to trade down. But I personally hope it happens were we go down to 3-5 and get an extra 2nd (way undervalued but it would be very beneficial from money and rebuilding standpoint).

The only likely scenario that I foresee this occuring is if only 1 or 2 of the top underclass QBs leaves/gets an elite grade and tempts a team like K.C., St. Louis, Seattle, or S.F. to make a move for one. I think this might be possible from the stanpoint that 3 or 4 of these teams will probably have a new HC and might want to draft "thier" guy for the future.

The problem is that we also might(hopefully) have a new HC who might want his guy to build around and as I said if only 1 or 2 QBs get an elite grade then we would most likely miss out on them if we move down.

As for next years class, it will probably be low on talent in the bottom half of the 1st and top of 2nd, but it will be infused by all of the current underclassmen who are ineligible to declare this year like possibly Everson Griffin, DE, USC. So in other words, I know we need to hit on at least our top 4-5 selections but inevitably we will make a little progress next year, but still be top 7 and in a position to draft a top guy then also. IMO if we go QB at #1, hopefully we sit him for a year to develop/adjust, than we will be top 5 next year, and yes this is assuming that we hit on our top 4 or 5.

Prowler
12-03-2008, 01:17 PM
i'm all over the place this year about what the lions should do, but that georgia/georgia tech game wasn't too bad. stafford threw an interception for a touchdown to put them in the hole on the 1st drive, but responded with 24-39(61.5) for 407 yards and 5 touchdowns. he worked excellently with massaquoi. if georgia tech hadn't ran the ball the entire game(only 6 passes) then stafford could have had about 800 yards. he only had 26 mins to work.

i'm still not sold on paying all that guarenteed money to a rookie qb, but he definately looked like he can and is ready to play in the nfl.

updated mock
1. stafford
1b. oher/smith/monroe whoever drops
2a. spikes

DoWnThEfiElD
12-03-2008, 02:16 PM
Prowler that draft would be absolutly sick. I love Spikes, and I have a feeling he is going to end up rising into the 1st round, but if he was there for our 2nd rounder it would be a blessing.

I'm standing behind Stafford as our guy. He started in the SEC at 18, his line isn't great, so its not like Bradford where he has all day to throw. I think he is the most NFL ready college QB.

Prowler
12-03-2008, 03:41 PM
i think spikes can be defensive rookie of the year. i just wish that we switch away from cover 2. the only downside is that we miss that top tier pass rusher, but there should still be some talent left at the top of the 2nd day. plus avril should still be progressing even more.

however the plus side is we get elite qb, elite defensive leader, and atleast a damn good LT if not elite. but yeah, after watching stafford use that pick-6 as inspiration to lead his team back instead of folding, i'm warming up to him. it wasn't his fault that his team gave up 400+ yards rushing.

wingboy2999
12-03-2008, 06:32 PM
I'll be honest, that game did make me warm up to Stafford. And reading "Ask Scott" the Stafford/Smith v. Smith/Bomar.......... yeah, the 1st one is looking better.



But I still like Bradford.

woodnick
12-03-2008, 06:56 PM
i think spikes can be defensive rookie of the year. i just wish that we switch away from cover 2. the only downside is that we miss that top tier pass rusher, but there should still be some talent left at the top of the 2nd day. plus avril should still be progressing even more.

however the plus side is we get elite qb, elite defensive leader, and atleast a damn good LT if not elite. but yeah, after watching stafford use that pick-6 as inspiration to lead his team back instead of folding, i'm warming up to him. it wasn't his fault that his team gave up 400+ yards rushing.

I like your enthusiasm about the guy, but saying that it wasnt the MLBs fault that a team ran all over his D is like saying that Lenon isn't that bad, and he shouldnt be held accountable because our D stinks.

DoWnThEfiElD
12-03-2008, 07:22 PM
He is talking about Stafford not being at fault because his D stunk in that game.

woodnick
12-03-2008, 07:27 PM
He is talking about Stafford not being at fault because his D stunk in that game.

Wow I'm an idiot, my bad

WMD
12-03-2008, 10:32 PM
updated mock
1. stafford
1b. oher/smith/monroe whoever drops
2a. spikes

QB is way more likely to drop than OT. With the current draft order..

2. Cincinnati- Carson Palmer
3. Kansas City- Maybe. Could be happy with Thigpen. They also have big OL and Defensive concerns.
4. St. Louis- Maybe. They could be looking towards life after Bulger.. but they could also use some big defensive help.
5. Seattle- I could see it. Hasselbeck is 33 and with Mora taking over after this season, he could want his own QB. Walter Jones is also getting up there in age.
6. Oakland- JaMarcus Russell
7. San Francisco- It's a possibility, Alex Smith should be out.. Martz could stick with Shaun Hill though. They'll probably take a QB later, Martz style. I'd look for them to go OL.
8. San Diego- Philip Rivers.
9. Jacksonville- David Garrard.
10. Cleveland- Derek Anderson/Brady Quinn.
11. Green Bay- Aaron Rodgers.
12. Houston- Matt Schaub.
13. Buffalo- Trent Edwards/JP Losman
14. Chicago- They'll probably run with Kyle Orton as long as they can. I think they'll go WR.
15. New Orleans- Drew Brees.
16. Philadelphia- Donovan McNabb/Kevin Kolb
17. Miami- Chad Pennington/Chad Henne
18. New England- Tom Brady/Matt Cassell
19. Washington- Jason Campbell.
20. Denver- Jay Cutler.
21. Arizona- Kurt Warner/Matt Leinart
22. Minnesota- I think they'll look at a Veteran stop-gap solution. Matt Cassell maybe, or McNabb if he becomes available. I bet they're dying to replace Ryan Cook, they could do it here with an OT pick.
29. Philadelphia(f/Carolina)- Still have McNabb and Kolb.
24. New York Jets- Brett Favre/Kellen Clemens.
25. Atlanta- Matt Ryan.
26. Indianapolis- Peyton Manning.
27. Baltimore- Joe Flacco.
28. Tampa Bay- Gruden loves his QB's, but I think they have enough on their roster (Garcia/McCown/Griese/Josh Johnson) to pass on a 1st Round QB. Should go WR or DT.
30. Pittsburgh- Ben Roethlisberger.
31. Tennessee- Kerry Collins/Vince Young.
32. New York Giants- Eli Manning.

Bolded teams that I think will look to fill a hole at QB this offseason. I only see 3 teams that I would be afraid of taking a QB in the first round though. Chiefs, Rams, and Seahawks. With Matt Cassell, Kurt Warner, Kerry Collins, and even Rex Grossman hitting the Free Agent market.. a couple of those teams could get their QB for next season. I'd look for Collins to resign with the Titans though. I expect Donovan McNabb to be available, someone will trade for him.. leaving very few teams in need of a Round 1 Franchise QB. So, if we're banking on someone to fall, look for it to be a QB.

Iamcanadian
12-04-2008, 12:30 AM
QB is way more likely to drop than OT. With the current draft order..

2. Cincinnati- Carson Palmer
3. Kansas City- Maybe. Could be happy with Thigpen. They also have big OL and Defensive concerns.
4. St. Louis- Maybe. They could be looking towards life after Bulger.. but they could also use some big defensive help.
5. Seattle- I could see it. Hasselbeck is 33 and with Mora taking over after this season, he could want his own QB. Walter Jones is also getting up there in age.
6. Oakland- JaMarcus Russell
7. San Francisco- It's a possibility, Alex Smith should be out.. Martz could stick with Shaun Hill though. They'll probably take a QB later, Martz style. I'd look for them to go OL.
8. San Diego- Philip Rivers.
9. Jacksonville- David Garrard.
10. Cleveland- Derek Anderson/Brady Quinn.
11. Green Bay- Aaron Rodgers.
12. Houston- Matt Schaub.
13. Buffalo- Trent Edwards/JP Losman
14. Chicago- They'll probably run with Kyle Orton as long as they can. I think they'll go WR.
15. New Orleans- Drew Brees.
16. Philadelphia- Donovan McNabb/Kevin Kolb
17. Miami- Chad Pennington/Chad Henne
18. New England- Tom Brady/Matt Cassell
19. Washington- Jason Campbell.
20. Denver- Jay Cutler.
21. Arizona- Kurt Warner/Matt Leinart
22. Minnesota- I think they'll look at a Veteran stop-gap solution. Matt Cassell maybe, or McNabb if he becomes available. I bet they're dying to replace Ryan Cook, they could do it here with an OT pick.
29. Philadelphia(f/Carolina)- Still have McNabb and Kolb.
24. New York Jets- Brett Favre/Kellen Clemens.
25. Atlanta- Matt Ryan.
26. Indianapolis- Peyton Manning.
27. Baltimore- Joe Flacco.
28. Tampa Bay- Gruden loves his QB's, but I think they have enough on their roster (Garcia/McCown/Griese/Josh Johnson) to pass on a 1st Round QB. Should go WR or DT.
30. Pittsburgh- Ben Roethlisberger.
31. Tennessee- Kerry Collins/Vince Young.
32. New York Giants- Eli Manning.

Bolded teams that I think will look to fill a hole at QB this offseason. I only see 3 teams that I would be afraid of taking a QB in the first round though. Chiefs, Rams, and Seahawks. With Matt Cassell, Kurt Warner, Kerry Collins, and even Rex Grossman hitting the Free Agent market.. a couple of those teams could get their QB for next season. I'd look for Collins to resign with the Titans though. I expect Donovan McNabb to be available, someone will trade for him.. leaving very few teams in need of a Round 1 Franchise QB. So, if we're banking on someone to fall, look for it to be a QB.

I see at most only 2 QB's declaring, probably Stafford and Bradford. I doubt either slips. Stafford, definitely the #1 elite player in this year's draft and while I have some concerns about Bradford, I doubt he gets out of the top 5.
If we hire a solid GM, you can almost certainly count on us drafting Stafford. No decent GM will pass on him. Seattle, and Kansas City will not pass on Bradford and neither will San Fran. These teams aren't the Lions and their coaching staffs will have little say in the draft, some imput maybe but the GM's will all make the final decision.

Prowler
12-04-2008, 03:50 PM
i don't know if i'm comfortable having the balls of steel required to wait and hope the qbs fall. i just see bradford staying and getting bigger, i guess it all depends on if oklahoma wins and bradford gets the heisman or not. i still think stafford and bradford stay in the top 7.

Prowler
12-04-2008, 06:25 PM
i'm thinking that if 3 OT are taken within the first 7 picks then we'll miss out on the left tackle. and unfortunately we have to root for minnesota not to choke like they always do and beat the cowboys in playoff standings.....so hopefully we lose and go 'undefeated' winless this year and get that left tackle.

i think cincy and st louis go OT, san fran can't pass up malcolm jenkins or a top hybrid, philly grabs their safety with early pick, washington and arizona could end up going a few different directions and minnesota is the only other competition for tackle. duke robinson should still be available in most scenarios unless arizona grabs him then eugene monroe or jason smith should be there provided the vikings don't choke. so in summary, the top 2 tackles are coming off the board early then the other 2 are falling with the 4th best or duke going to detroit.

WMD
12-04-2008, 09:21 PM
I wasn't saying that we should bank on a QB falling.. I was just saying that a QB has a better chance of falling in the draft.

woodnick
12-04-2008, 10:28 PM
i'm thinking that if 3 OT are taken within the first 7 picks then we'll miss out on the left tackle. and unfortunately we have to root for minnesota not to choke like they always do and beat the cowboys in playoff standings.....so hopefully we lose and go 'undefeated' winless this year and get that left tackle.

i think cincy and st louis go OT, san fran can't pass up malcolm jenkins or a top hybrid, philly grabs their safety with early pick, washington and arizona could end up going a few different directions and minnesota is the only other competition for tackle. duke robinson should still be available in most scenarios unless arizona grabs him then eugene monroe or jason smith should be there provided the vikings don't choke. so in summary, the top 2 tackles are coming off the board early then the other 2 are falling with the 4th best or duke going to detroit.

There's a chance that there will be up to 6 1st round LT's in this draft: Andre Smith, Michael Oher, Jason Smith, Eugene Monroe, Eben Britton, and Russell Okung. Suposedly a lot of the agents are getting the word out to the underclassmen and making them believe that they stand to loose a ton of money in staying a year if a rookie cap comes in place.

WMD
12-04-2008, 10:44 PM
Don't forget about Ciron Black and Phil Loadholt.

woodnick
12-04-2008, 10:46 PM
Don't forget about Ciron Black and Phil Loadholt.

Yeah, but IMO they are gonna be RTs

Brothgar
12-04-2008, 11:05 PM
I see at most only 2 QB's declaring, probably Stafford and Bradford. I doubt either slips. Stafford, definitely the #1 elite player in this year's draft and while I have some concerns about Bradford, I doubt he gets out of the top 5.
If we hire a solid GM, you can almost certainly count on us drafting Stafford. No decent GM will pass on him. Seattle, and Kansas City will not pass on Bradford and neither will San Fran. These teams aren't the Lions and their coaching staffs will have little say in the draft, some imput maybe but the GM's will all make the final decision.

What if we give San Fran Kitna? grab a mid late round pick Martz has a boner for Kitna wants him on the team give our new GM as much to work with as possible.

Iamcanadian
12-04-2008, 11:14 PM
Well, NE, Indy, Pittsburgh, the Giants and Tennessee all managed to wait and find their LT's outside of round 1 along with many other teams. People here seem to think you can only find a LT in round 1 but that is far from the truth.
I believe drafting a LT #1 overall and having to pay him as if he is a franchise QB would be a long term disaster for this team. The solid teams all have a salary structure that they follow in order to be successful franchises and none of them felt it was smart to use a 1st rounder on a LT nevermind the 1st overall pick. Successful teams have a comprehensive plan that they follow in order to remain successful. The QB gets the most money and everything else follows from there.
To think we can become a successful frasnchise by breaking these true and tried rules about how you structure you salary cap, would be a complete disaster if you ask me.

Prowler
12-04-2008, 11:24 PM
Suposedly a lot of the agents are getting the word out to the underclassmen and making them believe that they stand to loose a ton of money in staying a year if a rookie cap comes in place.

that's awesome news, perfect time to have 3 picks in top 33 then if everyone declares. the stars are realigning. i just hope spikes is dumb and declares instead of waiting for laurinaitis and maualuga to get out of his way. if not i think we miss out on DE or a 2nd OL with 2nd round pick and have to hope for DT since the pennsylvanian teams will probably gobble duke up and george selvie or whoever that 4th or 5th DE is needs to freefall a bit.

i kind of want Beckum TE wisconsin too. (later like 4th round) i'm tired of horrible TEs. another corner would also be nice.

Brothgar
12-04-2008, 11:42 PM
Well, NE, Indy, Pittsburgh, the Giants and Tennessee all managed to wait and find their LT's outside of round 1 along with many other teams. People here seem to think you can only find a LT in round 1 but that is far from the truth.
I believe drafting a LT #1 overall and having to pay him as if he is a franchise QB would be a long term disaster for this team. The solid teams all have a salary structure that they follow in order to be successful franchises and none of them felt it was smart to use a 1st rounder on a LT nevermind the 1st overall pick. Successful teams have a comprehensive plan that they follow in order to remain successful. The QB gets the most money and everything else follows from there.
To think we can become a successful frasnchise by breaking these true and tried rules about how you structure you salary cap, would be a complete disaster if you ask me.

To play devils advocate.
Two of those five also found QBs outside the first round too. Ten didn't draft Collins and their first rounder is riding the pine. A franchise LT lasts longer than a franchise QB.

P-L
12-05-2008, 09:32 AM
I still say we draft Stafford #1 overall and then take the best DE/LT available with Dallas' pick.

woodnick
12-05-2008, 09:44 AM
I just hope we bring in a great talent evaluator, like Piloi, and let him decide who is the top talent out there. If we have a great "eye" in charge then I'll follow his lead, as long as it's not a WR but a great mind wouldn't do that with all the holes we have.

DoWnThEfiElD
12-05-2008, 11:49 AM
I still say we draft Stafford #1 overall and then take the best DE/LT available with Dallas' pick.

Or Spikes if he is there ;-)

Prowler
12-05-2008, 12:23 PM
i still believe spikes will be there at the top of round 2. i wish we do get pioli/josh mcdaniels/matt cassell. that would make everything so much easier.

DoWnThEfiElD
12-05-2008, 01:50 PM
I actually see Spikes being a riser during the off-season, if he jumps to the draft.