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View Full Version : Why Duane Brown was a great draft pick


HTown NFL fan
04-29-2008, 09:42 PM
Duane Brown was a great example of where team need, system, and situation coincided to make what seems like a horrendous reach to be a terrific pick. Here's why:

1. The Texans have a ZBS scheme. Read the scouting report that the venerable Scott Wright wrote on D. Brown for an example of why draft gurus knew before the draft started. That the dude had potential but needed to be in a ZBS scheme to maximize his potential.

2. Alex Gibbs is the founding father of the ZBS scheme and is the new O-Line coach for the Texans this year. Read this verbiage below taken from the Houston Texans website to find out what Alex Gibbs thought of D. Brown going into the draft.

3. Sorry but I'm going to trust Alex Gibbs judgment on D. Brown's value as a ZBS Left Tackle in the NFL over my judgment, Mel Kiper's judgment, people on this board, and anybody else for that matter.

4. Bottom-line, the Texans wanted to move down in the 1st round and still be very confident of getting their man. They moved down to 26th and picked up a 3d & 6th round pick in the process. Trading down and still getting your man. Can't ask for more than that.

Of course, you can tell by my ID that I'm biased (I am a Texans fan) And I'm not going to claim that the Texans had the best draft. I like many others think the Chiefs had the best draft. They started out with the best picks, then got lucky and then executed by filling team needs with incredible value.

But under the circumstances, I would put the Texans in the top 10 best drafts this year. I think they got three starters in D. Brown, Molden, and Adibi. And two of those three starters are where the greatest needs were (i.e. CB and OT) Plus got a potential late round gem in Okam. Although the track record of lazy guys in college is that they are generally lazy in the NFL. So this Longhorn alum thinks that Okam will be an NFL dud. But it's the 5th round so I'm okay with the pick.

That's all. I rarely post but often read. I think the people on this draft board are generally the most intelligent NFL Draft Forum on the net.

Cheers
________________________________________
BROWN THE CURE TO LEFT TACKLE BLUES
Entering the first round, the Texans were committed to getting a left tackle who could excel in assistant head coach Alex Gibbs’ zone blocking scheme.


“We have really been in love with this kid (Brown) for a long time. He fits what we want to do.” - Gary KubiakThe Texans had been targeting Boise State's Ryan Clady, Vanderbilt's Chris Williams, Virginia's Branden Albert and Brown. The first three were off the board by the team’s 18th pick.

Smith then took a gamble and traded back with Baltimore, getting the Ravens’ 26th spot and their third- and sixth-round picks. The gamble paid off, as Houston acquired the extra picks and still was able to select Brown near the end of the first round.

“There were some very good offensive linemen in this draft, obviously, as you saw them go throughout the first round,” head coach Gary Kubiak said. “We have really been in love with this kid (Brown) for a long time. He fits what we want to do.”

Brown comes to the Texans with only one year of experience at left tackle, but he brings a tremendous upside with his athleticism. Brown played tight end, like right tackle Eric Winston, and right tackle before moving to left tackle last season.

“We love his athletic ability,” Kubiak said of Brown. “You know, you watch this guy work out at Indianapolis, the type of feet that he has, and to sit there and to see Alex (Gibbs) talk about a player like he talked about this kid over the course of the last six weeks and for us to find a way to get him at 26, job well done.”

Brown was the fastest player at his position at the combine, running the 40-yard dash in 5.08 seconds. Gibbs’ blocking scheme requires offensive linemen with the quickness and athleticism to run-block and cut-block.

Brown used a similar zone scheme in his four years as a Hokie and looks forward to working with Gibbs when the Texans begin their mini-camps in May.

The Texans hope that Brown will be a long-term solution to the franchise’s woes at left tackle. Brown hopes to earn a starting job.
_______________________________________

bored of education
04-29-2008, 09:44 PM
you are a texans fan.

The Texans hope that Brown will be a long-term solution to the franchise’s woes at left tackle. Brown hopes to earn a starting job.

Hope is a good thing maybe the best of things...and no good thing ever dies.

That is also true with homerism.

Xiomera
04-29-2008, 09:45 PM
Wow . . . biggest all text sig ever?

Duane Brown wasn't a tremendous reach. He was likely the next best OT left and Scott even had him going in round 1.

MidwayMonster31
04-29-2008, 09:54 PM
Lot's of things with that pick, and nice sig.
Dallas was smart and aggressive when they traded up for Mike Jenkins at 25. He was a good value at that spot.
No one anticipated that Atlanta would trade up for (and reach for IMO) Sam Baker.
This was plan C for Houston, but it can work out because Brown is a good fit for that scheme. Just as long as he gets his technique down and becomes more consistent, he will be the solution.

d34ng3l021
04-29-2008, 09:55 PM
I didnt see it as a reach. I saw it as a pretty good pick. Granted, I wish they wouldve taken Mendenhall when they had the chance, but whatever. In the spot that they were at, and with all the tackles being drafted (Baker would be been amazing for you guys if we didnt trade up for him) it was no surprise to see you guys get the athletic ZBS fitting Duane Brown.

He is still very raw, but he is athletic enough to play in the ZBS and protect Schaub's blindside. I would say with the situation at hand, it was a very good pick actually.

Jonny
04-29-2008, 09:56 PM
They picked Charles Spencer a few years ago and he was a bust. Spencer was a bad player in college drafted for his measurables, as was Brown. Bad pick.

fischbowl
04-29-2008, 09:58 PM
I saw it as a good pick. Granted they got screwed out of drafting a RB

toonsterwu
04-29-2008, 10:09 PM
Actually, i'm a fan of the Duane Brown pick. Drafting is also about tactical decisions, and I think they made the right one there. Simply put, they needed a tackle. For all the love on this tackle class, everyone knew that it was top loaded. They lacked a 2nd round pick. The tackle options in the 3rd simply put, were not anywhere near Duane Brown's level, whereas the DB options in the 3rd were close to what was available in the first in value (and in Molden, they got a guy who arguably has a higher upside than many of the CB's ahead of him, and may also be more ready than several CB's ahead. Furthermore, if Dunta comes back fine, they suddenly have a stud FS option in Molden, another area of concern).

If they had a 2nd round pick, maybe I would be a bit more negative towards this move. That said, he was their 4th LT on their board (well, 5th, but Jake was already signed). But they lacked a 2nd, and thus made the right tactical decision.

GB12
04-29-2008, 10:11 PM
Wow . . . biggest all text sig ever?
He doesn't even have a sig...

hugegmenfan
04-29-2008, 10:26 PM
you are a texans fan.

The Texans hope that Brown will be a long-term solution to the franchise’s woes at left tackle. Brown hopes to earn a starting job.

Hope is a good thing maybe the best of things...and no good thing ever dies.

That is also true with homerism.

fabulous quote red

cordscords
04-29-2008, 10:30 PM
The pick was fine with me. Brown was one of my favorite prospects in the draft.

JagHombre22
04-29-2008, 10:34 PM
the Texans had a very good draft...I liked all of their picks....

Mr.Regular
04-29-2008, 10:34 PM
I really like the Texans draft. They got a LT that did have decent value... Brown would have been the next lineman off the board for sure, and at worst taken very early 2nd. Molden, Adibi, and Slaton all fit as well. They got quite a bit of value for their picks and may have found themselves several starters.

BaLLiN
04-29-2008, 10:36 PM
I dont think Molden will start immediately, but he could be a starter in a year or two.

I dont think it was a bad pick looking back, at the time i didnt think the value was right, but fitting into the scheme really takes some of the lost value back.

I agree that its not as bad as some people think, but its not as good as you think. Yes he may be a great fit for a ZBS, but no he may not be that answer to the LT position. He has the potential to do so, but potential doesnt play on sundays.

energizerbunny
04-29-2008, 10:44 PM
In Alex Gibbs we trust, if he is ok to take you in the first round you know he thinks you can be a special player.... we all remember how angry he was with the George Foster pick a few years back in Denver.

FrankGore
04-29-2008, 11:03 PM
For what it's worth, the Niners were going to take Brown at #29 if the Texans hadn't taken him off the board.

kmartin575
04-29-2008, 11:19 PM
They picked Charles Spencer a few years ago and he was a bust. Spencer was a bad player in college drafted for his measurables, as was Brown. Bad pick.

A bust? So now when your career is derailed by injury you are now a bust?

I never thought he was a bad player. But they should have never tried to put him at left tackle. He seems much better suited for guard.

foozball
04-29-2008, 11:53 PM
A bust? So now when your career is derailed by injury you are now a bust?

I never thought he was a bad player. But they should have never tried to put him at left tackle. He seems much better suited for guard.

charles spencer was a very good OT for us. anyone who says otherwise hasnt seen him play for us. granted, it was 2 games, but 3rd round picks dont win starting LT jobs if they suck. theres a reason why everyone was hailing him as our LT for the next 10 years.

D-Rod
04-30-2008, 03:12 AM
I agree. I thought the Texans had a good draft. The criticism of reaches often merely reflects the self-corroborating nature of pre-draft debate. Nothing wrong with that debate, but it's worth recognising that most teams know what they're looking for and whether they're willing to risk missing out on it.

HTown NFL fan
04-30-2008, 07:34 AM
Texans were never interested in Jenkins, Sam Baker, or Otah. They thought Jenkins could not play the run and Baker/Otah not good fits for ZBS. Like some posters have said, they were in love with Chris W./Brandon A. especially and were hoping for one of them but not expecting them to be there at #18.

Plan A for Texans, as I know it, was to take Clady/C. Williams/B. Albert if available. Plan B was to take DRC/McKelvin if available. Texans were very high on those two at CB. Plan C was to trade down and take D. Brown. Which is what they did when Plans A/B did not work out.

Caddy
04-30-2008, 07:44 AM
I think from a pure value perspective, Brown was definitely a reach. I don't think a lot of people really expected him to go in the 1st round. But once you get too the mid-twenties, the whole BPA becomes even more redundant than it does earlier in the draft. Teams draft according to need and for Houston, Brown was the best tackle left on the board.

CARDIAC CAT 7
04-30-2008, 11:02 AM
They picked Charles Spencer a few years ago and he was a bust. Spencer was a bad player in college drafted for his measurables, as was Brown. Bad pick.

Spencer was actually progressing well and was going to be the left tackle for them for years to come. Then he broke his leg and will probably never play again.

art vandelay
04-30-2008, 12:54 PM
I thought that was a fine spot for Brown and I think he'll do very well in Houston.

TheGreatEscape
04-30-2008, 01:17 PM
They picked Charles Spencer a few years ago and he was a bust. Spencer was a bad player in college drafted for his measurables, as was Brown. Bad pick.

A) You can't say sppencer was a bad pick, he was a third rounder who's career almost ended due to injury.

B) The point of this thread was that Brown was picked because he fit their scheme, not because of measureables. I think it was a very good pick that will pay off for the texans quickly.

keylime_5
04-30-2008, 01:25 PM
The talent in this draft was sort of underwhelming compared to most years, and while it had much better 4th-7th round talent than in 2007, the 2008 draft's first three rounds were not as stocked as any other draft we've had this decade. 2007 and 2009 will overshadow the first round players found in 2008. Thus I think reaching for a LT who will probably be a solid but not superstar player in their system wasn't that bad of an idea late in round one. Steve Slaton and Antwaun Molden were great picks and I think they will be starters sooner rather than later, so the need pick of Duane Brown is kinda forgiven by those next 2 picks.

d34ng3l021
04-30-2008, 01:27 PM
And I guess the point of the TC's topic backfires. Everyone already agrees with him.

foozball
04-30-2008, 01:29 PM
also, it seems like both san diego and san fransisco were ready to take brown if the texans passed on him

“We came up one pick short,” said Turner, who along with the rest of the Chargers brass watched Houston trade into the 26th spot and take tackle Duane Brown of Virginia Tech.

“One way or another, something is not going to get filled,” said Smith, who had just five draft picks to work with this year because of two 2007 trades and the selection of defensive back Paul Oliver in last summer's supplemental draft.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20080428-9999-1s28chargers.html

Iamcanadian
04-30-2008, 02:50 PM
The talent in this draft was sort of underwhelming compared to most years, and while it had much better 4th-7th round talent than in 2007, the 2008 draft's first three rounds were not as stocked as any other draft we've had this decade. 2007 and 2009 will overshadow the first round players found in 2008. Thus I think reaching for a LT who will probably be a solid but not superstar player in their system wasn't that bad of an idea late in round one. Steve Slaton and Antwaun Molden were great picks and I think they will be starters sooner rather than later, so the need pick of Duane Brown is kinda forgiven by those next 2 picks.


I agree completely with your draft assessment of the 2007 draft. I think rounds 1-3 were pretty mediocre especially starting with the #8 pick and that is why Baltimore was willing to unload it. However Brown, I feel, has a lot of upside and was going to be picked in round 1 by somebody. He's a great athlete and while he'll need a lot of work, the potential to start for Houston at LT for a decade is certainly there.

vatech=accdomination
04-30-2008, 05:41 PM
Brown needs some technique and weight room work, and consistency, I saw him do very well against Mario Williams, but struggle against some lackluster competition.

BamaFalcon59
04-30-2008, 06:07 PM
More importantly, he was the last third tier tackle. No offensive tackle went in round two.

Breaker
04-30-2008, 09:20 PM
also, it seems like both san diego and san fransisco were ready to take brown if the texans passed on him

“We came up one pick short,” said Turner, who along with the rest of the Chargers brass watched Houston trade into the 26th spot and take tackle Duane Brown of Virginia Tech.

“One way or another, something is not going to get filled,” said Smith, who had just five draft picks to work with this year because of two 2007 trades and the selection of defensive back Paul Oliver in last summer's supplemental draft.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20080428-9999-1s28chargers.html

Exactly. SD would've took him with the next pick, San Fran would've took him with the 29th pick. He isn't consider a reach if more then one team consider him to be a (X) round talent. Remember, Houston had a chance to trade back with Seattle, but they feared it was too risky and they might lose out on Duane. We're talking about moving two picks back. (most people think its that, but it might've been SEA 2nd round 7th pick, which still put him at very early 2nd round prospect)

Anyways, you guys might think it's a reach but the REAL GM that get paid to do this, doesn't think so. Bottom line is...

NFL GM >>>>> Casual Fans.

Except for Casserly, everyone opinion is rated higher then his when he was GM.

Breaker
04-30-2008, 09:23 PM
They picked Charles Spencer a few years ago and he was a bust. Spencer was a bad player in college drafted for his measurables, as was Brown. Bad pick.

Oh My God. Is all your post this clueless? If so, I think we might've found our Village Idiot. Step aside Ewing, this guy takes the cake.

LonghornsLegend
04-30-2008, 09:27 PM
Houston made up for it with all of their late picks, Okam, Adibi, Molden, Slaton, all those guys can end up being solid contributors and are great picks...That's one hell of a 2nd day.

BamaFalcon59
04-30-2008, 09:29 PM
Houston made up for it with all of their late picks, Okam, Adibi, Molden, Slaton, all those guys can end up being solid contributors and are great picks...That's one hell of a 2nd day.

I agree. All have legitimate star potential.

scottyboy
04-30-2008, 09:42 PM
I actually liked this pick. Good athlete who I think has TONS of potential.

and I think it was Jonny who said they drafted Spencer a while back. Spencer sucked, he went to Pittsuck

BamaFalcon59
04-30-2008, 10:27 PM
Brown is a bit overrated though, coming from a VaTech. fan. He has athleticism and size, but he played better as a junior than a senior, where he was just above average.

SenorGato
04-30-2008, 11:52 PM
I actually liked this pick. Good athlete who I think has TONS of potential.

and I think it was Jonny who said they drafted Spencer a while back. Spencer sucked, he went to Pittsuck

Spencer looked good before suffering that career threatening injury...

The Legend
05-01-2008, 03:21 AM
good not great

Cribbs>Hester
05-01-2008, 05:38 AM
How can anyone call Duane Brown a reach at 26 when the Atlanta Falcons traded up to 21 to take Sam Baker hahahahaha. He is going to be the most worthless pile of crap in this years tackle class, and they traded DeAngelo Hall and Matt Schaub for him ahaha kills me that their fans ripped me for saying they should trade up to #1 for Jake Long and then they pulled this Matt Millen/Butch Davis type move.

toonsterwu
05-01-2008, 04:42 PM
To be honest, I think Tom Dimitroff overreacted a bit. I think he looked at the board and saw Pittsburgh and Houston coming up, amongst others, along with Seattle, and was worried about not grabbing anyone.

That said, here's the other thing. For all the bagging that Sam Baker got for a down season, what did seem clear in the final days was that he was a late first value, at worst, early 2nd. The chances of Sam Baker falling to their 2nd, considering that we know now Duane Brown wasn't going to fall, seems quite slim. After Duane Brown, the tackle value dropped much more than anyone thought, as Collins fell hard, and Cousins slipped down as well.

So, this was a tactical move. The same with Houston taking Brown (that is, they couldn't get a better OT in the 3rd). The same with Baltimore jumping to 18 over Flacco (I am almost 100% sure that Joe Flacco would not have fallen to 26 if Baltimore had stayed put). Do I think they traded up to high? Yes. Do I think the thought process was correct? Yes. Do I think that the fact that they didn't lose any net picks is something to factor in? Yes. Do I think that Sam Baker is a stud LT? No.

That said, there are two questions that have to be asked. First off, is a Matt Ryan and dealing up for Sam Baker package better than a Dorsey and dealing up for Henne package? As we know now, the interest in Henne and Brohm wasn't nearly as high as people thought, but the reality is this: Atlanta probably would've moved up for a QB. While the general board perception is that Dorsey/Henne is a better package, I think I'm inclined to think that a Ryan/Baker package is better.

Okay, so this leads to the 2nd aspect. After taking Matt Ryan, they needed to net a LT. They couldn't wait a year and hope for the best. Getting someone in now made sense. Finally, let's conclude on this - Sam Baker was a top talent a year ago. He had an injury riddled senior campaign. People will point to the short arms as a negative, and I'd agree, but certainly, short arms aren't the end of the world (see Joe Thomas). While I don't think Baker is a stud LT, the talent is there, and it is certainly plausible that, with good coaching, Sam Baker may be able to be a top LT.

All in all, I don't think it is nearly as bad a pick as it was initially made out to be. Was it a reactionary? Sure. Was it a reach? Probably. Did they need to do it, relative to trading that high? Probably not. Was it a solid move? Yes. And keep in mind, they did not lose any net picks in a draft where depth was the keyword.

Geo
05-01-2008, 04:54 PM
For Atlanta: I would have gone with Dorsey plus Brohm myself. Brohm benefits from playing in the dome, and isn't so raw that the Falcons wouldn't know if he is the future within a 4-year deal (or 5-year deal if they traded up). I think I would have taken my chances with Collins, personally, than give up two 2nd round picks for Sam Baker. Again, that's me.

And hey, if Ryan and Baker work out, then probably no one will care.

As for San Diego wanting to drafting Duane Brown with their 1st round pick: I wish I could have seen it happen. Even though division rival Houston just spent a 1st round pick on a developmental left tackle, lol.

BamaFalcon59
05-01-2008, 05:05 PM
For Atlanta: I would have gone with Dorsey plus Brohm myself. Brohm benefits from playing in the dome, and isn't so raw that the Falcons wouldn't know if he is the future within a 4-year deal (or 5-year deal if they traded up). I think I would have taken my chances with Collins, personally, than give up two 2nd round picks for Sam Baker. Again, that's me.

And hey, if Ryan and Baker work out, then probably no one will care.

As for San Diego wanting to drafting Duane Brown with their 1st round pick: I wish I could have seen it happen. Even though division rival Houston just spent a 1st round pick on a developmental left tackle, lol.

It has been reported that Chad Henne, not Brian Brohm, was our second highest rated quarterback. Also, Anthony Collins is overrated, or was at least.

toonsterwu
05-01-2008, 05:07 PM
I don't think Anthony Collins talent was overrated. There were indications that a lot of OL coaches were in love with him. I think there was even a comment somewhere on this. I do think Collins was one of the clear cases this year where character concerns really hurt him. Albeit, only by a round, but in the whole scheme of things, when considering the talent level, I do think character issues played a big role here.

LonghornsLegend
05-01-2008, 08:55 PM
I'f I'm in Atlanta's shoes, I would or probably traded a future 1st and kept one of the 2nds and took Albert...His potential is much greater then Baker's, and nothing wrong with spending a 1st rd pick on the LT of the future...Granted the way they did it they have a 1st next year, but a tackle who wasn't rated as high, and if he doesn't pan out you will need to address it again anyway.


Those 2nd rd picks were valuable, as there was a surplus of talent availabe in those middle rounds, guys like Pat Sims didn't fall until the 3rd.


I guess they will see how Baker pans out, he is great at pass blocking, but I would of rather went all out and traded the future 1st, and got an elite/stud at LT to protect my new QB.

BamaFalcon59
05-01-2008, 09:19 PM
I'f I'm in Atlanta's shoes, I would or probably traded a future 1st and kept one of the 2nds and took Albert...His potential is much greater then Baker's, and nothing wrong with spending a 1st rd pick on the LT of the future...Granted the way they did it they have a 1st next year, but a tackle who wasn't rated as high, and if he doesn't pan out you will need to address it again anyway.


Those 2nd rd picks were valuable, as there was a surplus of talent availabe in those middle rounds, guys like Pat Sims didn't fall until the 3rd.


I guess they will see how Baker pans out, he is great at pass blocking, but I would of rather went all out and traded the future 1st, and got an elite/stud at LT to protect my new QB.

That would have been idiotic. We are almost guarenteed a top ten, probably top five, draft pick next year.

Geo
05-01-2008, 10:57 PM
Yeah, I like Albert too, but not to the extent of trading Atlanta's 09 1st plus one of their 2nds this year.

LonghornsLegend
05-01-2008, 11:02 PM
That would have been idiotic. We are almost guarenteed a top ten, probably top five, draft pick next year.

Albert was slated to go 5th to KC, its not like you would of been spending it on a crap player, even if you did end up with a top 5 pick...So I would hardly call that idiotic but I guess thats just me, we'll have to see looking back once guys start to pan out, but like I said if Baker doesn't pan out to be the LT you thought, you still will end up spending another 1st on somebody.

toonsterwu
05-01-2008, 11:29 PM
I'm not so sure that Albert was ever really slated to go 5th. KC liked Chris Long, probably would've pondered Matt Ryan more than they let on. There was a feeling that KC intentionally inflated Albert's value. For what reason, I don't know, but that idea was floated.

djp
05-01-2008, 11:41 PM
fabulous quote red

Why do they call you Red?

I don't know... maybe it's cause I'm Irish.

Cribbs>Hester
05-02-2008, 03:44 AM
Doresy? No. I was talking about a LT-QB combo. I was flogged for suggesting Atlanta move up to #1 for Jake Long(this was pre done deal with Miami)

Trade a 2nd and 4th and a future pick to go up and get the VERY BEST OF THE BEST LT PROSPECTS then you sit pat and wait for pick 34 or 37 which ever one wasn't deal and wait for Flacco, Brohm, or Henne.

A great offensive line and LT most importantly are more vital to the success of a young QB than a franchise QB is to the success of a team. It all starts with protection and then your QB can opperate. If you don't protect him then he cannot make things work for your team. You go out and get the best protection possible and then you start bringing in your QB, RB, WR, and TE's

1. LT
2. QB
3. C
4. LG
5. RT
6. WR
7. RB
8. RG
9. TE
10. WR
11. FB

Protection then QB- leader of the Oline - more lineman for improved protection - someone to get open for your passer - someone to get the running game going to take pressure of your QB - final piece of the Oline puzzle - saftey net for QB - a second threat for QB - yeah, whatever I guess teams do need a FB sometimes

Addict
05-02-2008, 04:20 AM
I didn't know Duane Brown so the pick confused me a bit. On the other hand, they finally took OL in the first (about damn time) so here's to hoping he works out as planned (hoped)

toonsterwu
05-02-2008, 06:43 PM
Doresy? No. I was talking about a LT-QB combo. I was flogged for suggesting Atlanta move up to #1 for Jake Long(this was pre done deal with Miami)

Trade a 2nd and 4th and a future pick to go up and get the VERY BEST OF THE BEST LT PROSPECTS then you sit pat and wait for pick 34 or 37 which ever one wasn't deal and wait for Flacco, Brohm, or Henne.

A great offensive line and LT most importantly are more vital to the success of a young QB than a franchise QB is to the success of a team. It all starts with protection and then your QB can opperate. If you don't protect him then he cannot make things work for your team. You go out and get the best protection possible and then you start bringing in your QB, RB, WR, and TE's

1. LT
2. QB
3. C
4. LG
5. RT
6. WR
7. RB
8. RG
9. TE
10. WR
11. FB

Protection then QB- leader of the Oline - more lineman for improved protection - someone to get open for your passer - someone to get the running game going to take pressure of your QB - final piece of the Oline puzzle - saftey net for QB - a second threat for QB - yeah, whatever I guess teams do need a FB sometimes

The problem with that idea is that many don't feel Jake Long is a top LT talent. A top tackle talent, yes. A top LT talent is debatable. We don't know how they graded Long, but suggestions since the beginning have been that Jake was not at the top of their board. Furthermore, for a rebuilding team, the multiple assets is probably more valuable, particularly after you figure in the hit or miss on Jake Long in regards to Jake Long as a LT talent.

And finally, I'd argue that, if you feel a guy is a truly elite QB, said player has more value than any LT ever could. It might mean sitting a guy for a full year before you address OT, but you almost always go for the QB if you feel said player is elite. And post draft, the strong rhetoric has been that most NFL people graded Matt Ryan as one of the best QB's in recent years, which is actually quite surprising.

TheGreatEscape
05-02-2008, 09:12 PM
The problem with that idea is that many don't feel Jake Long is a top LT talent. A top tackle talent, yes. A top LT talent is debatable. We don't know how they graded Long, but suggestions since the beginning have been that Jake was not at the top of their board. Furthermore, for a rebuilding team, the multiple assets is probably more valuable, particularly after you figure in the hit or miss on Jake Long in regards to Jake Long as a LT talent.

And finally, I'd argue that, if you feel a guy is a truly elite QB, said player has more value than any LT ever could. It might mean sitting a guy for a full year before you address OT, but you almost always go for the QB if you feel said player is elite. And post draft, the strong rhetoric has been that most NFL people graded Matt Ryan as one of the best QB's in recent years, which is actually quite surprising.

I've liked Ryan a lot compared to recent QB prospects, honestly I like him more than any prospect since Jay Cutler, more than Russell, Quinn, Leinart and Young. Then again I wouldn't have taken any of them top 10 because I don't expect them to be elite QBs.

TheGreatEscape
05-02-2008, 09:33 PM
I've liked Ryan a lot compared to recent QB prospects, honestly I like him more than any prospect since Jay Cutler, more than Russell, Quinn, Leinart and Young. Then again I wouldn't have taken any of them top 10 because I don't expect them to be elite QBs.

Let me explain this before everyone bashes me, I think for a QB to be an elite prospect he's gotta be able to make his teammates better and good enough to win, that said I think Ryan can be a winning without great weapons. With a lot of the other top QBs in recent years I'm not as sure.
A) JaMarcus Russell seemed lazy to me and had to take a little longer to read a situation and make a good accurate throw, when he got to set and go deep he was incredible but I want a QB who can make a quick accurate throw when there's a DE closing on him. This can be taught but if I'm picking a guy that high I don't want to have to change his mentality that much.
B) Brady Quinn, I really like Brady Quinn although I felt his accuracy needed work and he didn't get his teammates to match his hardwork. Am I being picky? Maybe but if he's gunna lead my team he better be able to lead his men.
C) Vince Young, incredible potential, I'd him top 10 any day why cause he got his team to win and had that "I'm making a damn play" mentality when needed. Alas he was very raw as a decision maker and has to learn that sometime a 10 yard pass on the run is better than taking off yourself. Plus he's gotta get more comfortable in the pocket.
D) Matt Leinart, I hated leinart and still do as a top 15 pick, but he's in a situation where he can succeed but my problem is that Kurt Warner is succeeding in that situation so did it really need such a high pick?
E) I love Cutler because he had great tools and fought a terrible team in a great conference to not as terrible as they were, making his teammates better and keeping them competitive despite being outmanned.

UncleHulka
05-02-2008, 10:03 PM
Let me explain this before everyone bashes me, I think for a QB to be an elite prospect he's gotta be able to make his teammates better and good enough to win, that said I think Ryan can be a winning without great weapons. With a lot of the other top QBs in recent years I'm not as sure.
A) JaMarcus Russell seemed lazy to me and had to take a little longer to read a situation and make a good accurate throw, when he got to set and go deep he was incredible but I want a QB who can make a quick accurate throw when there's a DE closing on him. This can be taught but if I'm picking a guy that high I don't want to have to change his mentality that much.


I agree 100% there. As an avid LSU fan, I have to say that while Russell's arm is a beauty to behold (unbelievable almost), his decision-making leaves something (well, quite a few somethings) to be desired. Despite his hype, I am not at all convinced that he will make a great pro. At best, I think he is Daunte Culpepper. Hell, who thought Brees would be the qb he is now? Measurables for qbs don't mean **** if you have the brains of a banana slug, Marino, et al withstanding...

Hokie_Pokie08
05-05-2008, 11:34 PM
duane has the potential to make this a very good pick for the texans.

Hokie_Pokie08
05-05-2008, 11:37 PM
Exactly. SD would've took him with the next pick, San Fran would've took him with the 29th pick. He isn't consider a reach if more then one team consider him to be a (X) round talent. Remember, Houston had a chance to trade back with Seattle, but they feared it was too risky and they might lose out on Duane. We're talking about moving two picks back. (most people think its that, but it might've been SEA 2nd round 7th pick, which still put him at very early 2nd round prospect)

Anyways, you guys might think it's a reach but the REAL GM that get paid to do this, doesn't think so. Bottom line is...

NFL GM >>>>> Casual Fans.

Except for Casserly, everyone opinion is rated higher then his when he was GM.

if the casual fan was the texans gm instead of casserly then reggie bush would be on the texans instead of mario williams. home run casserly.

Hokie_Pokie08
05-05-2008, 11:39 PM
Brown is a bit overrated though, coming from a VaTech. fan. He has athleticism and size, but he played better as a junior than a senior, where he was just above average.

he graded out better than jake long this past season. guess it depends how much weight you put in those grades.