Scott's Winners and Losers

[BeerBaron]

Didn't see a thread just to talk about them all yet.

Anyway, I have two minor beefs with it. How are the redskins losers when they get arguably the top receiver prospect in the draft (thomas) in round 2? They really beefed up their offense IMO...sure they didnt get the DE help they needed early on but one could make the argument that that was a position where the value just didnt last....groves is the only guy who was available in teh 2nd that i would have considered and i don't think hes a great fit for the type of d-lineman they like. then come the 3rd and 4th round, you have teams like philly taking bryan smith (who was projected as a 6th/7th rounder) and the titans taking William Hayes, who i didnt even have anywhere on my draft sheet. not even in the potential UDFA guys....

also, how are the lions winners? i thought they had an awful draft....just because they picked up kevin smith? I didn't know 3rd round running backs could swing an awful draft to a great one....plus they grossly reached for dizon IMO. dan connor will be a much more solid player imo and though he may not have been a perfect fit for their system, its just evidence that better guys were availbable that dizon. And gosder? Why take a definite right tackle only when you could have had Otah who at least has the potential to make the move to left side long term. That would have been a perfect situation for him imo where he could stay on the right side to learn and kick over to left in the future.

just my thoughts

[BPhilb]

Didn't see a thread just to talk about them all yet.

Anyway, I have two minor beefs with it. How are the redskins losers when they get arguably the top receiver prospect in the draft (thomas) in round 2? They really beefed up their offense IMO...sure they didnt get the DE help they needed early on but one could make the argument that that was a position where the value just didnt last....groves is the only guy who was available in teh 2nd that i would have considered and i don't think hes a great fit for the type of d-lineman they like. then come the 3rd and 4th round, you have teams like philly taking bryan smith (who was projected as a 6th/7th rounder) and the titans taking William Hayes, who i didnt even have anywhere on my draft sheet. not even in the potential UDFA guys....

also, how are the lions winners? i thought they had an awful draft....just because they picked up kevin smith? I didn't know 3rd round running backs could swing an awful draft to a great one....plus they grossly reached for dizon IMO. dan connor will be a much more solid player imo and though he may not have been a perfect fit for their system, its just evidence that better guys were availbable that dizon. And gosder? Why take a definite right tackle only when you could have had Otah who at least has the potential to make the move to left side long term. That would have been a perfect situation for him imo where he could stay on the right side to learn and kick over to left in the future.
just my thoughts

Good points. I usually am skeptical of teams that take a lot of skill postion players early as those drafts tend to be "sexy" but also carry a high risk factor. I too was suprised by Detroit being a "winner", not that I thought they had a bad draft but I didn't see it as a top 5 on paper. I also wouldn't label Washington as a winner but they at least went strongly after fixing a big need area and though it's likely one of the three first day picks will bust they should be able to get some contributers out of it. Overall though it's almost impossible to grade these things this early as it says in Scott's opening and usually teams that have mulitple first day picks "win" these things.

[LonghornsLegend]

Marinelli offers up a little bit of an explanation..

Q: We really liked Gosder Cherilus. One of the reasons is that he played against some good defensive ends and, every one of them said about the same thing: Once he gets his hands on you, it's a wrap.

RM: Yeah, his hands are big. Wow. This guy is a really big, physical man. And he's got a real nasty streak in him. A real tough competitor. He's got the athleticism to be a left tackle, but at right tackle, he's just a real tough, physical guy. He's a humble guy. He's going to come in here and work.


Q: Some have said Jordon Dizon was a reach. How does he fit into your defense? Talk about his skill set.

RM: We want to look at him at the Mike position, and also as the nickel Mike because he's really good in space. He's also got the ability to play the Sam backer. But we really want to see him inside. His instincts are great. He sees something and goes. Our philosophy in the draft was to err on the side of production with our picks.




Q: Speaking of production, Kevin Smith was one heckuva productive running back at Central Florida.

RM: We really targeted him early, especially Jim Coletto. One thing we really liked about this guy is that he's very decisive when he makes his cuts. And he breaks tackles. You gotta be able to break tackles in this league. He's very physical. We're exciting about him.




Q: The trade with Kansas City was interesting. You really just moved down two spots to take your guy. You must have had confidence they weren't after the same guy you were.

RM: We felt that they were going after the Virginia kid (offensive lineman Brandon Alberts). It was really, probably one of the key things in the entire draft for us because it allowed us to move up in the third round to get the man we wanted.



Q: If Dizon becomes the every-down Mike, how would you like to see the strong-side linebacker competition shake out?

RM: Well, you got Paris (Lenon). Paris has been there, too. He can play Sam. You got a guy like Alex Lewis going into that thing. So we can really upgrade, or if Jordon has to play Sam, we can do that too.






They must of really liked Dizon to take him so early, because that seems like a position they wanted to address, if he ends up a beast everyone will appluad that pick, if he bust they will talk about it forever, I'm not sure of the exact number of where he was picked but I hope Curtis Lofton wasn't on the board at this time.


Their 2nd day really did kill it though, it probably outweighs day one because they nailed quite a few picks.

[WMD]

Yeah, Curtis Lofton was gone by the time the Lions picked in Round 2. I would've slaughtered someone if they passed on Lofton for Dizon.

[Flyboy]

I totally don't understand how the Lions are winners. I mean, I don't think their draft was terrible but I wasn't that high on it either.

With that said, Saints ftw!

[FloridaFootball]

I want to see the explanation for Redskins being losers.

[Jakey]

The Steelers 1st day is enough to make them winers! But i guess narrowing it down to 5 is a pretty hard thing to do!

[bearsfan_51]

Scott makes mock drafts with the best of 'em, but as I recall his draft grades have been pretty significantly off. It's not an exact science folks, just for fun. Nobody will know for a few years anyway.

[Xiomera]

Lions at #2 is a bit of a shock.

I liked the Lions day two much more than day one, but the only 'bad' pick the Lions made, IMO, was Dizon.

They made the best of the situation that presented itself to them in Round 1. They wanted Mayo, and didn't necessarily anticipate him going in the top 10. Same goes for Harvey. And to trade back a couple slots to get Gosder is a good move I think in retrospect.

[Young Legend]

For a team to have alot of picks like the Falcons they sure did mess things up.

[sweetness34]

Hmmm, maybe the Redskins are losers because they didn't address their OL or DL much in this draft, the two areas that needed the most work. They have Moss, Randle-El, and Cooley (not world beaters but still solid). I love Thomas but there are questions with Kelley's character and his knees, and I really did not see the value in taking Davis over DL in the 2nd Round.

If history shows anything, if you don't have the boys in the trenches, it's going to be a long season.

[A Perfect Score]

the redskins were losers not because they drafted thomas, but because they drafted davis and kelly also in the 3nd round, with guys like calais campbell and quentin groves still on the board who filled a much bigger need. Davis will be the #2 TE behind cooley, but why draft a #2 TE when tehre are starting caliber DEs on the board, and your team needs starting DE`sÉ makes no sense to me.

another thing that just occured ot me, i understand the lions moved down for cherilus, but why not just draft albert thereÉ almost everyone had him as a higher ranked player, and he is more then athletic enough to play RT if they wanted to use him there, and LT if they wanted to kick backus over. doesnt make alot of sense to me...

i thought the rams had a very good draft overall...justin king was a steal in the 4th round.

[roidrunner]

according to scott my team is a big loser.

[Geo]

I don't knock the Lions for drafting Cherilus, he's got the potential to be an All-Pro right tackle. Granted they passed on Mendenhall, and maybe that could be looked on with regret in the future, but really you can pretty much find a runningback every year. Smith has his concerns, but he might work out.

[Whistler6]

When you were 13-3 a season ago, and you have nearly all your starters set in stone... you can hardly be called ''losers'' by drafting BPA. Everyone says you need replacements because your 33 year old corners are getting old. Well instead of that we drafted Jordy Nelson because 33-34 year old Donald Driver is getting old..(still a stud)

And yeah Green Bay drafted a lot of projects but look at TT's history.. many of his picks from his time in Green Bay are still on the team contributing, in fact almost all are.

Yeah I wanted a Safety or TE early, but I am perfectly happy with the way the draft turned out.

[WMD]

another thing that just occured ot me, i understand the lions moved down for cherilus, but why not just draft albert thereÉ almost everyone had him as a higher ranked player, and he is more then athletic enough to play RT if they wanted to use him there, and LT if they wanted to kick backus over. doesnt make alot of sense to me...

The Lions liked Cherilus' ability in Run Blocking more than Albert. They are going to try and emphaszie Running the ball a lot more this year and Gosder is their guy to lead the charge.

[d34ng3l021]

I wouldnt call us a top5 draft, but neither would I say that we had a bottom5 draft either. We got alot of leaders and high character guys for the future and alot of system specific players which we may have reached for. *shrug*

[WMD]

When you were 13-3 a season ago, and you have nearly all your starters set in stone... you can hardly be called ''losers'' by drafting BPA. Everyone says you need replacements because your 33 year old corners are getting old. Well instead of that we drafted Jordy Nelson because 33-34 year old Donald Driver is getting old..(still a stud)

And yeah Green Bay drafted a lot of projects but look at TT's history.. many of his picks from his time in Green Bay are still on the team contributing, in fact almost all are.

Yeah I wanted a Safety or TE early, but I am perfectly happy with the way the draft turned out.

But you guys have Greg Jennings and James Jones who have both worked out well. You didn't really need to draft a replacement for Donald Driver. Also, you guys signed Donald Lee to a nice 4 year extension.. I don't think TE was really something you needed early on.

[keylime_5]

I think Cherilus was a better fit at RT than Otah for Detroit, he is a better pass blocker right now and is more polished despite not having quite as much upside. I think if Cherilus doesn't work out though at RT then he is George Foster p.2, if Otah doesn't work out at LT or RT, then he can be a dominant left guard for certain. Dizon in round two is eerily similar to Seattle "reaching" for Lofa Tatupu in 2005. In fact it's almost exactly the same, though the result is not necessarily gonna be the same.

[roidrunner]

But you guys have Greg Jennings and James Jones who have both worked out well. You didn't really need to draft a replacement for Donald Driver. Also, you guys signed Donald Lee to a nice 4 year extension.. I don't think TE was really something you needed early on.

GB runs a two TE system, we only have one TE. Thus i consider it a need. i agree Jordy was kinda a head scratcher. but otherwise i believe our draft was rather solid, no need to put us on the bottom two in terms of teams.

[CC.SD]

I liked the Lions draft but I think passing on Albert for Cherilus was a big mistake. They really just can't own up to their mistake and admit that their current "franchise" left tackle is a joke.

[draftguru151]

Scott really liked Gosder, I'm sure that has something to do with their grade. And they had a very good 2nd day.

[jjanni]

As a die hard lions fan (yeah i know i'm a glutton for punishment) I follow the team pretty closely.

I'm actually VERY happy with the draft, and find it amuzing some of the "experts" who have given the lions a poor grade and their comments why. It seems to me they really don't know what the lions are looking for.

Goz in the first round is great. they need a RIGHT tackle. Goz was actually the best RIGHT tackle in the draft (minus Long who could play either tackle position, but will be a staple at left tackle for many years to come) The knock on Goz is that he is more of a Right tackle then left tackle. but being that the lions HAVE a left tackle and need a right tackle. well I don't see the problem. Granted most teams who draft a OL in the first round are looking for a LEFT tackle. because thats the hardest position on the OL to fill. but the fact of the matter is, the lions primarily struggled last year at RIGHT tackle. So the lions moving down in the draft, picking up extra picks and still getting the best RIGHT tackle after Long i see as a WIN!

The Diz pick although many people say was a reach, and most experts had Connors higher on their board, Dizon fits the Lions tampa 2 much better then Conners. Their first choice (And would have been their 1st pick) was Jarod Mayo, but with New England taking him before him, their next on their board was Lofton, unfortuantly Lofton was gone as when they picked 2nd as well. Dizon was their 3rd choice. Dizon is a speed guy with great mobilitiy and plays well in space which is a must for the tampa 2. The Mike backer drops back and plays zone in pass protection, so you need speed. Connors although highly productive, dropped way down everyones board, the reason being, he's not very fast, and can't really drop back in pass coverage. He's a GREAT run stopper. but the other area he is terrible at is pass rushing (Something else the mike backer will do from time to time in the Tampa 2) Connors looked terrible in his workouts at the combine. It really lowered him on every teams board, thats why he fell so far. Watching the combine film, i watched him pass rush 7 times. all 7 times he tried the same move (he obviously doesn't have many techniques at all) and was stuffed everytime by the OL he was facing. I have no doubt that in the right system Connors can be productive (just look at what he did at penn st.) but for the lions tampa 2, there were only 4 LB's that they thought worth drafting for their system Mayo first, Lofton second, Dizon third, and (cant remember the forth guy, it was xavier or something like that) forth. With their first two choice for the position gone, they drafted their board, and got a good player. The one negative on Dizon is that he's smaller then ideal (6'0"). However, some of the best Middle linebackers ever were classified as small as well. Mike singletary, Joe schmidt, chris speilman, etc etc etc.... and with the tampa 2 demanding more speed then size at the position i don't see this as a problem and neither did the lions.

with the deep RB class this year, getting 24K in the 3rd was pretty much a consensus steal.

The rest of the picks were all need picks and value picks where they took them.

I saw one review where the WR they took in the 5th round was critisized because there loaded at receiver. the funny thing about it, is the guy they got was one of the best kick returners in the class. Granted he wasn't the best WR, but thats just it, they need help on the return unit. the guy was drafted as a special teamer. its the 5th round... again value pick.

all in all, I liked the Lions draft. This was the first draft that was obviously all Marinelli's choices. So far the Marinelli guys have been pretty good. The Millen guys have been terrible. Millen seems to go with the guy that has the most hype, regardless of their abilities and talent evaluations. I'm convinced that Marinelli will turn the Lions around. If we can just keep Millen from interfearing with what Marinelli wants to do i think we'll be fine.

-J

[Geo]

I really liked the Packers' pick of Jermichael Finley.

And I think Brian Brohm was stellar value, he shouldn't have fallen that far. Wouldn't surprise me if he eventually wins the job, like Trent Edwards in Buffalo, except Rodgers is much better than Losman and should fetch a nice return in a trade (he should be signed through 09).

[Yatta!]

I don't understand the Packers being losers.

I didn't like the draft myself at first but when you really look at it, we covered all our needs, got good value and were even able to make a luxury pick with our first selection.

[d34ng3l021]

Scott really liked Gosder, I'm sure that has something to do with their grade. And they had a very good 2nd day.

Is your avatar Avatar?

[draftguru151]

Is your avatar Avatar?

Yes it is. :D

[dpl85]

I'm a cowboys fan and I thought the redskins had a pretty good draft but I guess I didn't analyze it that closely. I like the Thomas and Kelly picks.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

As for the Lions, it was solid. Very good day 2 and the feel good 7th round pick. Round 1 and Round 2 we addressed needs.

Right Tackle was more of a need than Left Tackle. Everyone thinks Jeff Backus is awful from the last 2 years under Martz. Martz offense equals explosiveness but his offense ALWAYS give up a ton of sacks. The preceeding years before Martz, Jeff Backus was an above average left tackle. He only gave up 3 sacks total in 2005. Therfore, Right Tackle is more of a need(has been for a very long time) considering we will be running the ball more and moving to a zone blocking scheme(which Gosder has experience at BC). I hated Jeff Otah. I think he is too much of a project and Gosder has way more experience at BC and is much smarter than Otah. Plus the run blocking ability by Gosder is much better. Moving down and getting Gosder was a good move(which allowed us to get Kevin Smith). We'll see if it truly pans out over time but right now I like it.

Dizon reach or not, fits the system and Mayo/Lofton were gone. One thing Marinelli was looking for is someone capable of calling a defense. Dizon had 3 years experience calling a defense at Colorado and fits the Cover 2 better than Connor. I am a huge PSU fan and watched Connor every game at Penn State. I don't think Connor fits the Cover 2. Dizon seems to fit and has good instincts and produced a ton in college as well.

If the Lions went Kevin Smith in Round 2 and Dizon in Round 3 nobody would be calling anyone reaches past on how the board went. It was a solid draft. I wouldn't say number 2 overall but it was a good draft.

[TitanHope]

and the titans taking William Hayes, who i didnt even have anywhere on my draft sheet. not even in the potential UDFA guys....

How dare you mock Williamz HayezzZZ?!

[BeerBaron]

How dare you mock Williamz HayezzZZ?!

i printed what jbond made up. dont blame me for not having him on there, lol.....i didnt see him anywhere under DEs or OLBs, even under 2 tiers of UDFAs

[WMD]

The preceeding years before Martz, Jeff Backus was an above average left tackle. He only gave up 3 sacks total in 2005.

Eh.. To me, Jeff Backus has always sucked. He gave up so few sacks that year because Joey Harrington always got rid of the ball very quickly.

[d34ng3l021]

Eh.. To me, Jeff Backus has always sucked. He gave up so few sacks that year because Joey Harrington always got rid of the ball very quickly.

2 yard outs FTW.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

Eh.. To me, Jeff Backus has always sucked. He gave up so few sacks that year because Joey Harrington always got rid of the ball very quickly.

Well thats ultimately what you want to do is get rid as quickly as possible.(which is why Manning never gets sacked). The problem is you want to get it to the open receiver or the receiver that has the best chance to make a play. Joey just got it to the guy running the shortest route(Pollard) or Byrson. Also at that point, we had Kevin Johnson,Mike Williams,Charlie Rogers running routes for us. That is a very bad thing. Also Garcia played in a few games.

Plus the West Coast offense you are supposed to get rid of it quickly, in a Martz offense its all about timing, longer drops, and really focusing on one receiver before the ball even starts. Kitna has stated he will be glad he can have more variety in his decision making this upcoming year.

I think Jeff Backus does have to play better. But not having Martz and being healthy(strained pectoral muscle in Week 3) will help Jeff Backus. Plus the threat of a run game. I have no doubt about that. Backus was abused for the most part in a 3 week span last year. Week 3, Week 4 and Week 5 and then later by Jared Allen. Later on in the year he stoned DeMarcus Ware and Osi and San Diego didn't register a sack either. So I'm not giving up on the guy yet. This year is his last chance. Blocking tight ends will also help. Campbell coming back(who was missed greatly) and Gaines can block. At least better than McHugh and Fitzsimmons.

[Larry121283]

i printed what jbond made up. dont blame me for not having him on there, lol.....i didnt see him anywhere under DEs or OLBs, even under 2 tiers of UDFAs
Supposedly there were a few teams high on the kid, but a lot of people were shocked to see him go so high.

The same can be said from that DE/LB that Philly took from McNeese.

Players that flew under the radar that teams jumped the gun on a little too early.

[TitanHope]

i printed what jbond made up. dont blame me for not having him on there, lol.....i didnt see him anywhere under DEs or OLBs, even under 2 tiers of UDFAs

If you were confused about where Hayes came from, just think about what Titans fans were thinking, lol. He was even listed as "Williams Hayes" on the ESPN ticker. Naturally, anyone with two last names is gonna be a beast!

And the Titans FO maintain the, "Screw what they think. We think he'll be a good player for us! H'yup!" Remember: These were the guys who thought Chris Henry wouldn't available in the 2nd RD last year, so they thought about taking him in the 1st... I wish I could make that up.

But, what I do know is that Fisher and Jim Washburn (DL Coach) LOVE athleticism on the DL. Hayes played OLB at Winston Salem at 270, along with DE. His workout numbers would have placed him among the RB's at the combine. Dude's a freak...an anonymous freak, but a freak nontheless. ;)

[Bobertchin]

I actually really liked the Titans draft, and I can't tell if that's because I'm a Titans fan or not. On one hand, as a Titans fan, I may be a homer here. But OTOH, I also recognize their needs more than most experts out there. They needed Chris Johnson, badly. He will upgrade an awful KR game right away. He will also be the speed back the Titans need, and the slot WR/deep threat they need. His versatility and speed are better than any WR that was available this year.

I've seen analysts complain that the Titans didn't give Vince any weapons, but Johnson IS a weapon, and a great one.

Of course, I've also seen these analysts say the Titans didn't do anything to cover the DL holes created by FA. But they drafted 2 DL, one in the second and one in the early 3rd. I'm not sure what else they were supposed to do there.

The biggest complaint seems to be based on past drafts; that the Titans took ANOTHER RB. Yet the Packers are being praised for doing so with a QB (or two), as is Miami. I don't get it. The Titans needed a back like Johnson. They didn't have one. They got one. Simple as that. Who cares who they drafted last year?

They also got a pretty underrated WR in Hawkins.

But again, I may be a homer here. The only pick that left me really scratching my head was Hayes, but that doesn't mean he wasn't value. It just means the experts I read before the draft didn't do their homework. Plenty of GMs apparently had him listed as a 4th or 5th rounder.

[Dreamers]

I don't really agree with Dallas as a winner, especially considering the picks they had. They took Felix Jones over Mendenhall which was a questionable move IMO and the rest of their picks just don't do much for me. I take it Scott doesn't like Chris Johnson in the 1st but at least half the teams had him with a 1st round grade and many had him over Felix Jones.

[ATLDirtyBirds]

I'm probably biased, but I don't see how the Falcons are losers when they could come out of the draft with a franchise QB, LT and big-time MLB.

[Bruce]

I'm probably biased, but I don't see how the Falcons are losers when they could come out of the draft with a franchise QB, LT and big-time MLB.What franchise LT did they come out with?

[BeerBaron]

I'm probably biased, but I don't see how the Falcons are losers when they could come out of the draft with a franchise QB, LT and big-time MLB.

not that i actually care, but i will disagree for the sake of it.

If Ryan were an unquestioned franchise QB in the Peyton Manning, year he came out mold, he would have gone to Miami no questions asked. He was the best player at your biggest need position so thats why you took him. Which makes sense...best pick? debatable....but filled your biggest need with the best player at that position

Baker a franchise LT? no...if he was, he would have gone much higher. Bad pick? probably not. Again, he was the best player at a need position available where you traded back up to. Not a bad pick, but nothing great.

Big time MLB? I don't think so....a good one who can register 100+ tackles for the next decade? sure. But i don't think hes a game changer in the urlacher/lewis mold.

So you made good picks, but don't overglorify them

[Thread Killer]

Isn't this winners or losers stuff kinda silly?

[MetSox17]

I don't really agree with Dallas as a winner, especially considering the picks they had. They took Felix Jones over Mendenhall which was a questionable move IMO and the rest of their picks just don't do much for me. I take it Scott doesn't like Chris Johnson in the 1st but at least half the teams had him with a 1st round grade and many had him over Felix Jones.

I'm not a fan of Felix Jones by any stretch of the imagination, but he was very high on a lot of teams' boards as a RB, and that's what we needed to come out of this draft with. A lot of people think he can be a game-breaker, and if he does that while spelling Marion Barber (which is highly likely) then we'll look great by taking him.

And Mike Jenkins doesn't do a whole lot huh? I mean, besides the fact that he was rated in the top 3 CB's by a lot of teams. Not to mention Scott. And to get him at 25, that's great value.

The first round alone is enough to come out winners. We got a pro bowl potential CB and a very good complimentary back.

[ManOverboard]

Jets worst draft ever that's all I know. How dare they win against the Chiefs in Week 17?

[ATLDirtyBirds]

What franchise LT did they come out with?

not that i actually care, but i will disagree for the sake of it.

If Ryan were an unquestioned franchise QB in the Peyton Manning, year he came out mold, he would have gone to Miami no questions asked. He was the best player at your biggest need position so thats why you took him. Which makes sense...best pick? debatable....but filled your biggest need with the best player at that position

Baker a franchise LT? no...if he was, he would have gone much higher. Bad pick? probably not. Again, he was the best player at a need position available where you traded back up to. Not a bad pick, but nothing great.

Big time MLB? I don't think so....a good one who can register 100+ tackles for the next decade? sure. But i don't think hes a game changer in the urlacher/lewis mold.

So you made good picks, but don't overglorify them


I'm not saying they are going to be franchise players, because I don't see that, yet. When you lock up 3 guys who have all the tools to become franchise players and fill some of the most important positions on the football field, it's kind of tough to call the team a loser, IMO. We very well might have drafted our starting QB, LT, and MLB this year. I do think we made some reaches, but it's all about taking guys who are perfect for our system. I don't think we had a top 5 draft either, I just don't see bottom 5.

[Iamcanadian]

Detroit at #2 is absolutely ridiculous. When are people going to learn that Millen is totally incompetent at assessing talent.

Round 1 - In my 55 years of following the draft I cannot remember 1 time when a team traded down allowing the other team to have the higher rated guy who plays the same position. Backus, the Detroit LT cannot handle speed rushers and is out of place at LT. He would be a potential stud at RT because he is a solid run blocker. It is my guess that Millen was too scared to draft Albert as he cannot afford another flop and risking it all on Albert making the shift to LT was more than Millen could stomach. It all came down to his ability to assess talent of which he has none so he played it safe and took Cherilius. If that gets you ranked #2, then I question Scott's reasoning on that one.

Round 2 - Millen has been reaching for need since he started drafting and very few have ever worked out. Dizon is just another example of Millen's inability to assess talent correctly. I'm guessing Dizon will only be a backup this coming season and won't start in his rookie year.

Round 3 - I like Smith but he is a 3rd round pick who lacks elite speed. Detroit is pretty well forced to start him, they are in cap hell sitting at the bottom of the cap pool at about 447,000 dollars and simply couldn't afford to sign a decent RB. It is just another example of Millen's incompetence.

Being forced to start rookies because of your horrible draft record doesn't equate to a solid draft, in fact I'll go out on a limb and say Detroit will only win 3-5 games this season down from their 7 wins last year. When you have had 7 years to build a team through the draft and it has produced a 31-81 record, any draft Millen is in charge off has to viewed as far more likely to be another disaster and rating it #2 is extremely questionable.

[SRogers92]

What good reasoning ... /sarcasm


And -- just because some internet scouting websites had Branden Albert rated higher, does not mean every team had him higher on their draft board ... again -- you didn't give any reasoning for why it was so horrible just ... it's "Millen" ... got to do better then that ...

[BeerBaron]

I'm not saying they are going to be franchise players, because I don't see that, yet. When you lock up 3 guys who have all the tools to become franchise players and fill some of the most important positions on the football field, it's kind of tough to call the team a loser, IMO. We very well might have drafted our starting QB, LT, and MLB this year. I do think we made some reaches, but it's all about taking guys who are perfect for our system. I don't think we had a top 5 draft either, I just don't see bottom 5.

i understand, i was just saying what the logic behind saying they had a pretty bad draft was.

In theory they could have taken dorsey, brohm/henne, Lofton, and still another player without even having to trade picks. wouldn't have gotten a LT but would have filled a few more needs

[BamaFalcon59]

i understand, i was just saying what the logic behind saying they had a pretty bad draft was.

In theory they could have taken dorsey, brohm/henne, Lofton, and still another player without even having to trade picks. wouldn't have gotten a LT but would have filled a few more needs

When you take a quarterback to be your future you need a left tackle more than other positions. Baker was a fine pass protector in college, and if he can do that for us then it was a great pick.

[toonsterwu]

The more time passes, the more I think the Falcons start to the draft was fine from a draft perspective. Look, much as people didn't like Matt Ryan on this board, the reality was that he was well-thought of, to the point that the Ravens offered a 1/2/4 and a future. After that, you have to add a LT talent. No way that you can't. And Lofton was a good value, tough guy inside.

Actually, if there's anything I had an issue with in regards to the Falcons, it had more to do with the rest of their draft. Although one thing was clear - they were clearly stressing character to an extent. And the other thing is this - for all the bashing they got for not adding enough line help, OL talent dropped off dramatically, and interior options had some questions. There was something late on Ahtyba Rubin that caused him to slide. Marcus Harrison had character warts. Red Bryant, Dre' Moore, and others all slid.

[49ersfan_87]

It would be fun to look back at last years winners and losers and see how the rookie class was this year.

I know the Panthers were considered big winners last year, but the class has sort of underwhelmed so far. Thats not to say they wont breakout this year, but less heralded classes looked much better (Bills, Vikings)

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

Detroit at #2 is absolutely ridiculous. When are people going to learn that Millen is totally incompetent at assessing talent.

Round 1 - In my 55 years of following the draft I cannot remember 1 time when a team traded down allowing the other team to have the higher rated guy who plays the same position. Backus, the Detroit LT cannot handle speed rushers and is out of place at LT. He would be a potential stud at RT because he is a solid run blocker. It is my guess that Millen was too scared to draft Albert as he cannot afford another flop and risking it all on Albert making the shift to LT was more than Millen could stomach. It all came down to his ability to assess talent of which he has none so he played it safe and took Cherilius. If that gets you ranked #2, then I question Scott's reasoning on that one.

Round 2 - Millen has been reaching for need since he started drafting and very few have ever worked out. Dizon is just another example of Millen's inability to assess talent correctly. I'm guessing Dizon will only be a backup this coming season and won't start in his rookie year.

Round 3 - I like Smith but he is a 3rd round pick who lacks elite speed. Detroit is pretty well forced to start him, they are in cap hell sitting at the bottom of the cap pool at about 447,000 dollars and simply couldn't afford to sign a decent RB. It is just another example of Millen's incompetence.

Being forced to start rookies because of your horrible draft record doesn't equate to a solid draft, in fact I'll go out on a limb and say Detroit will only win 3-5 games this season down from their 7 wins last year. When you have had 7 years to build a team through the draft and it has produced a 31-81 record, any draft Millen is in charge off has to viewed as far more likely to be another disaster and rating it #2 is extremely questionable.


Your still harping on this. Just because Millen made the picks doesn't equate to failure. In fact Roy,Ernie Sims,Calvin compared to just Mike Williams shows improvement for Millen. We are not in cap hell. Kalimbas 4 million salary comes off the books on June 1st.

And Gosder has 50 more starts at tackle than Albert. Based on 2 games, moving Albert to Left Tackle is crazy IMO. Sure it was safe, but safe is smart and we NEEDED a Right Tackle. Backus can't play right tackle. He has more problems with powerful D-Ends. Moving Backus to Right Tackle is just a hunch. Millens had too many boom or bust guys, falling on the bust side. I'm glad we went safe.

Dizon fits the system better than Connor. I've seen Connor play every single collegiate game and I trust Marinellis assessment of a Cover 2 LB (see Ernie Sims) We want guys that fit the Cover 2. And if Kevin Smith went to Detroit in Round 2 and Dizon in Round 3, nobody would say anything about reaching.

And we didnt' draft Kevin Smith to be our speed guy. Kevin Smith is our workhorse back. He'll get the tough yards and just grind it out. He has excellent vision, a great 3 cone drill and fits the zone blocking scheme. Tatum Bell is a our speed guy, home run hitter.

[toonsterwu]

I like the Lions draft. Probably not the 2nd best overall, but for once, Millen drafted relative to the team, than to value. For a team trying to establish the run more, Cherilus made sense if they didn't like Otah. Do I think they should've gone after Albert? Yes. But Albert is a risk to an extent. Dizon will fit fine. A bit high, I think, but then again, if you are taking a guy that you think fits for you, then you pull the trigger. We don't know if they had trade opportunities, and there's always the risk of missing out on your guy. LB was pretty bad this year. Connor really wasn't a fit.

I'm a fan of Kevin Smith. Here's a smart runner that has superb vision. Is he going to be some sort of stud? Probably not. There's a reason he went in the 3rd. But can he be a solid-good starter? Yes. And with a good complement, a good attack can be built. I'd like to see a short yardage back added. Avril can play open side end, imo, and Fluellen offers them interior youth that I thought they needed. There's a chance neither guy is a stud, but they missed out on the top DL options, and these two were fine. too lazy to think about the rest of the draft.

Short of it is, I think Millen did a good job this year. For once, he drafted relative to the team, in regards to fit and need. Do I think it was the 2nd best overall draft? Heck no. But it was a solid, good draft.

[toddmlazarchick]

I'm dying to hear why Scott says the Redskins are losers??? I'm starting to think he just doesn't like them. In his own mock he had them taking Brad Cottam in the 3rd round. Instead with the pick they traded they took Fred Davis in the 2nd.

How can you call them loses when they got the #1 rated WR in the draft in the second round. Then take Kelly later. They got the probably the best 2 WR in the draft at very valued picks. Fred Davis, while we have Cooley, is another offensive weapon for Campbell in the redzone.

Chad Rinehart in the 3rd is not a big reach like everyone else thinks. We passed on Calais Campbell because he has a horrible work ethic and is considered lazy. We were aiming for Merling and he came off 2 picks before us. We had to settle for the best WR in the draft. A great consolation prize!!!

Needs are addressed in more ways then just the draft. We picked up Kerry Brown OG from Appalachian State. Was one of the highest rated guards in the draft. New England had him as their highest rated G second to Albert. The factor of the OL is very exaggerated. We averaged the memebers of our OL and they are on par age wise teams like Dallas.

Saying that Washington had a bottom 5 draft is recidulous. I always loved reading Scott's analysis of prospects and his mocks and such. Im begging for a reason why we had a top 5 "loser" draft and Dallas has a top 5 "winner" draft. Passing on Mendenhall for Jones was very questionable. Then trading back up for Jenkins when there was going to be valued corners at 28? Trading away a backup TE to draft a backup TE? Scandrick was a decent pick tho.

[stephenson86]

im gonna say that i totally disagree with scotts saying the titans were losers, chris johnson creates a mismatch for any defense as he can fit in almost anywhere and alot of plays can be designed around his skill set, taking pressure off a predicatble run game and pass game helping VY much more. we took DL vvalue in the 2nd which we desperately needed, we took a potentially very good TE in the 3rd which will help the versatility on offense because he can block and catch, we got OLB depth, CB depth and we got one of the most underrated receivers in the draft in the fourth, all around i was extremely happy with our draft, by no means are we the winners bu i dont think we are the biggest losers by a long shot

[jetsfan0099]

He has the Jets losers just because they won the final game and lost out on DMC. Thats a pretty lame reason, the Jets did a good job this year in drafting, putting them in the losers side I don't agree.

[toonsterwu]

If the justification is that they missed on DMC, then well, at least, last I checked, post-draft rumors suggested that Chris Long was the guy they really wanted, with DMC second.

[BlindSite]

I know the Panthers were considered big winners last year, but the class has sort of underwhelmed so far. Thats not to say they wont breakout this year, but less heralded classes looked much better (Bills, Vikings)

Beason was amazing last year and was the 2nd best LBer from the class.

Kalil is our starter at C

Johnson is atop the depth chart at DE, waiting on TC to see if he'll start.

3/4 picks are starters at this point. Thats not really underwhelming.

[Naked Jehuty]

I can't imagine how the Jets are losers in this draft. We addressed our biggest need by getting a pass rusher, got two big targets, and cb help. Its really beyond me. Must've been a typo a typo.

[49ersfan_87]

Beason was amazing last year and was the 2nd best LBer from the class.

Kalil is our starter at C

Johnson is atop the depth chart at DE, waiting on TC to see if he'll start.

3/4 picks are starters at this point. Thats not really underwhelming.

Underwhelming in that they didnt live up to expectations of "draft winners", at least yet.

I like Beason though, hes a beast.

[ManOverboard]

I'm dying to hear why Scott says the Redskins are losers??? I'm starting to think he just doesn't like them. In his own mock he had them taking Brad Cottam in the 3rd round. Instead with the pick they traded they took Fred Davis in the 2nd.

How can you call them loses when they got the #1 rated WR in the draft in the second round. Then take Kelly later. They got the probably the best 2 WR in the draft at very valued picks. Fred Davis, while we have Cooley, is another offensive weapon for Campbell in the redzone.

Chad Rinehart in the 3rd is not a big reach like everyone else thinks. We passed on Calais Campbell because he has a horrible work ethic and is considered lazy. We were aiming for Merling and he came off 2 picks before us. We had to settle for the best WR in the draft. A great consolation prize!!!

Needs are addressed in more ways then just the draft. We picked up Kerry Brown OG from Appalachian State. Was one of the highest rated guards in the draft. New England had him as their highest rated G second to Albert. The factor of the OL is very exaggerated. We averaged the memebers of our OL and they are on par age wise teams like Dallas.

Saying that Washington had a bottom 5 draft is recidulous. I always loved reading Scott's analysis of prospects and his mocks and such. Im begging for a reason why we had a top 5 "loser" draft and Dallas has a top 5 "winner" draft. Passing on Mendenhall for Jones was very questionable. Then trading back up for Jenkins when there was going to be valued corners at 28? Trading away a backup TE to draft a backup TE? Scandrick was a decent pick tho.

Welcome to the "Confused as Hell" club.

We would've been draft "winners" if we would have "lost" week 17 to the Chiefs I guess....

[bearsfan_51]

So simply the fact that the Falcons took a quarterback and a left tackle that makes it a good draft? It doesn't matter what players they took, so long as they play positions that are important? That's kind of...um....stupid.

And as for the Packers, I don't think they had a bad draft, but what does BPA really do for you? Every team says they draft BPA, that's just the chiche thing to say. TT usually seems to do that more than others (particularly in a lot of the obscure picks he makes), but I'm pretty unconvinced that Jordy Nelson was the best player available at 36. In fact, I don't think Nelson would have been the best player available at 136.

[Mr.Regular]

I like the Lions draft. Probably not the 2nd best overall, but for once, Millen drafted relative to the team, than to value. For a team trying to establish the run more, Cherilus made sense if they didn't like Otah. Do I think they should've gone after Albert? Yes. But Albert is a risk to an extent. Dizon will fit fine. A bit high, I think, but then again, if you are taking a guy that you think fits for you, then you pull the trigger. We don't know if they had trade opportunities, and there's always the risk of missing out on your guy. LB was pretty bad this year. Connor really wasn't a fit.

I'm a fan of Kevin Smith. Here's a smart runner that has superb vision. Is he going to be some sort of stud? Probably not. There's a reason he went in the 3rd. But can he be a solid-good starter? Yes. And with a good complement, a good attack can be built. I'd like to see a short yardage back added. Avril can play open side end, imo, and Fluellen offers them interior youth that I thought they needed. There's a chance neither guy is a stud, but they missed out on the top DL options, and these two were fine. too lazy to think about the rest of the draft.

Short of it is, I think Millen did a good job this year. For once, he drafted relative to the team, in regards to fit and need. Do I think it was the 2nd best overall draft? Heck no. But it was a solid, good draft.
Agreed 100%. Cherilus is a perfect fit at the open RT spot, and Dizon was a pretty good value/fit for their MLB spot. Then being agressive to get Smith... very good moves. Plugged in 3 potential starters at their big 3 weaknesses. Plus Avril/Fluellen were great value picks IMO at great positions of need- makes for a terrific job for Millen (woah thats weird to say).

[LonghornsLegend]

Saying that Washington had a bottom 5 draft is recidulous. I always loved reading Scott's analysis of prospects and his mocks and such. Im begging for a reason why we had a top 5 "loser" draft and Dallas has a top 5 "winner" draft. Passing on Mendenhall for Jones was very questionable. Then trading back up for Jenkins when there was going to be valued corners at 28? Trading away a backup TE to draft a backup TE? Scandrick was a decent pick tho.

What does Dallas have to do with your draft, and why must you continue to bring Dallas up like your not biased when you talk about the Cowboys:rolleyes: Don't even comment on the Cowboys because your Redskins homerism shows its true colors, your really trying to knock the Jenkins pick, when he was labeled to go off the board as high as pick 10, and we gave up a 5th and a 7th to do it? Since when would a 5th and 7th hurt a team in our situation, so what other "valued" corners would be there? Cason was gone before 28, Houston was taking Jenkins if we didn't, so what corners were of value to take there, please tell me?


Also I think its humorous you call Bennett a backup TE, but fail to mention that about Fred Davis, classic...So Bennett is a backup TE, but Davis is a great pick? Did it ever cross your mind Fasano was a bust, and that Bennett has at least twice the athleticism of Fasano, this is a 2 te league which creates mis-matches.


You can be upset about people not falling in love with your draft, but really, get off the Dallas trip, its annoying and obvious you can't have an opinion about anything that has to do with the Cowboys...I actually like the Skins draft, so do alot of other Cowboys fans, stop bringing us up in reference to remarks about your draft, the Cowboys have absolutely nothing to do with your draft, or what Scott thinks about it.

[toonsterwu]

To be real honest, there are very few teams that I view as losers this year. Really only 1 team for me that I really didn't like, and even then, it wasn't a bad draft by any means. A couple teams I wasn't really hot on, but once again, it's not as if they had a bad draft by any means.

But in the end, it comes down to perception. I went into the draft thinking that from around 20-55 or so, the players were all bunched together, and thus to expect some unexpected. There was another bunching after that.

[Iamcanadian]

Your still harping on this. Just because Millen made the picks doesn't equate to failure. In fact Roy,Ernie Sims,Calvin compared to just Mike Williams shows improvement for Millen. We are not in cap hell. Kalimbas 4 million salary comes off the books on June 1st.

And Gosder has 50 more starts at tackle than Albert. Based on 2 games, moving Albert to Left Tackle is crazy IMO. Sure it was safe, but safe is smart and we NEEDED a Right Tackle. Backus can't play right tackle. He has more problems with powerful D-Ends. Moving Backus to Right Tackle is just a hunch. Millens had too many boom or bust guys, falling on the bust side. I'm glad we went safe.

Dizon fits the system better than Connor. I've seen Connor play every single collegiate game and I trust Marinellis assessment of a Cover 2 LB (see Ernie Sims) We want guys that fit the Cover 2. And if Kevin Smith went to Detroit in Round 2 and Dizon in Round 3, nobody would say anything about reaching.

And we didnt' draft Kevin Smith to be our speed guy. Kevin Smith is our workhorse back. He'll get the tough yards and just grind it out. He has excellent vision, a great 3 cone drill and fits the zone blocking scheme. Tatum Bell is a our speed guy, home run hitter.

When are you going to stop being an apologist for Matt Millen and his 31-81 record, the worst of any GM over his 7 years. Only a fool could overlook the obvious conclusion, that he is the worst GM in pro football bar none. It is his responsibility to pick HC's who can win and provide them with the talent to do so, he has been an utter failure at both especially the later. There can be no excuse no matter how hard you try that can explain away the total failure of this franchise under his guidance. No matter how you try to explain away his 31-81 record, it is simply a fact that you cannot sweep under the table.
Supporting what he has accomplished only makes you look rather ridiculous and proves the old adage 'that a fool is born everyday'.
If I didn't know better, I would think you are Matt Millen, in disguise, coming on this board to try and convince Detroit fans that he is a solid GM, there is no other explanation I can find for any sensible person supporting that idiot.

[Gay Ork Wang]

hey, he never said Matt Millen is average...he just said it doesnt make every pick a bust. Cause thats how u act like

[DITK]

I can't imagine how the Jets are losers in this draft. We addressed our biggest need by getting a pass rusher, got two big targets, and cb help. Its really beyond me. Must've been a typo a typo.
Not even mentioning that the 3rd round pick was spent on filling the massive hole at NT with a former pro bowl player still at 28 years old and at least 4 or 5 good years in front of him. Everyone is so against Keller and his blocking, can't they see that he's going to play in more of a Jeremy Shockey roll then be relied on as a both ways TE? But let them talk now, it's funny.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

When are you going to stop being an apologist for Matt Millen and his 31-81 record, the worst of any GM over his 7 years. Only a fool could overlook the obvious conclusion, that he is the worst GM in pro football bar none. It is his responsibility to pick HC's who can win and provide them with the talent to do so, he has been an utter failure at both especially the later. There can be no excuse no matter how hard you try that can explain away the total failure of this franchise under his guidance. No matter how you try to explain away his 31-81 record, it is simply a fact that you cannot sweep under the table.
Supporting what he has accomplished only makes you look rather ridiculous and proves the old adage 'that a fool is born everyday'.
If I didn't know better, I would think you are Matt Millen, in disguise, coming on this board to try and convince Detroit fans that he is a solid GM, there is no other explanation I can find for any sensible person supporting that idiot.

OMG. Millen has been a bad GM. There is no question about that. IMO Millen can't think on his own and just caters to coaches but others think he is some dictator calling the shots. . But his past has nothing to do with these players. He took Charlie Rogers(who should have been a stud per everyone but busted), does that mean Roy Williams should be terrible. NO. They are not related at all. If they went to any other team, you would have no problem except for Dizon(who would have to go to another Cover 2 team).

If we took Albert over Cherilus I'm beginning to think you would still be complaining. You would quote Millens awful record and then say we took a risky player.

Millen has made some mistakes. He went defense/O-line in free agency and D in Round 2/3 over the years(injuries galore in year 2 of careers Bailey,Lehman,Cody,Bullocks) and offense in Round 1(Mariuccii offensive minded head coach, weapons for Joey, Rogers supposed to be a stud by everyone, Roy is a stud,KJ we needed a RB had some solid years, and Mike Williams, wanted a corner, 3 went off the board, considered BPA by many and Charlie Rogers coming off 2 years of collarbone injuries) and Calvin Johnson(again BPA by far, Martz wanted him badly) gives some reasoning behind his picks.

And this year, I think its Marinelli calling the shots as he did in 2006. 2007 was Martz getting into Millens head. It couldn't be more obvious with the type of players we are drafting and the number of ex-Bucs on our team. We are Tampa 2(meaning the 2nd Tampa Bay). That is why I like the draft because they are Marinelli type players.

Cherilus was safer than Albert. Safe is good for a change instead of boom or bust. Two games at left tackle doesn't make me confident in Albert in Round 1 and a guard in Round 1 just doesn't make sense. And before you say Albert would have played LT this year, what about 2006. D'Brick was drafted in 2006 in April, fall 2006 Monroe a soph(like Albert) was the LT for Virginia. Albert may turn out to be a great LT, but its not a risk we were willing to take, especially with Backus having such a high cap number(who was above average before Martz/injury).

[toddmlazarchick]

What does Dallas have to do with your draft, and why must you continue to bring Dallas up like your not biased when you talk about the Cowboys:rolleyes: Don't even comment on the Cowboys because your Redskins homerism shows its true colors, your really trying to knock the Jenkins pick, when he was labeled to go off the board as high as pick 10, and we gave up a 5th and a 7th to do it? Since when would a 5th and 7th hurt a team in our situation, so what other "valued" corners would be there? Cason was gone before 28, Houston was taking Jenkins if we didn't, so what corners were of value to take there, please tell me?


Also I think its humorous you call Bennett a backup TE, but fail to mention that about Fred Davis, classic...So Bennett is a backup TE, but Davis is a great pick? Did it ever cross your mind Fasano was a bust, and that Bennett has at least twice the athleticism of Fasano, this is a 2 te league which creates mis-matches.


You can be upset about people not falling in love with your draft, but really, get off the Dallas trip, its annoying and obvious you can't have an opinion about anything that has to do with the Cowboys...I actually like the Skins draft, so do alot of other Cowboys fans, stop bringing us up in reference to remarks about your draft, the Cowboys have absolutely nothing to do with your draft, or what Scott thinks about it.

I am no biased about the Cowboys draft. I like Bennett as a player and think he will do well in the NFL. Can you forsee the future? How do you know for sure that Houston was taking Jenkins? You don't!! What about Brandon Flowers? He was valued as a first round talent.

The "team in our situation" line is hilarious. It's so much fun to read the Cowboys section of the forum and read how everyone already knows you are making the playoffs. You are one serious injury to TO (who is banged up every year) and you guys are screwed. This draft was VERY VERY deep wth talent in the later rounds where that additional 5th round pick could be very valuable.

Davis is the most NFL ready TE in the draft. Compared to Bennett who still needs refining. Not saying I dont like Bennett because I do. But you traded away your second string TE to draft another one. You still have yet to address the WR need which you could have with the 2nd round pick instead of drafting for a hole which you created when you didn't need to. A WR would evidently see the field more then Bennett would. Glenn's status is still in the air. Crayton is at best a #3 WR. An Earl Bennett or Early Doucet teamed up with TO and Witten would threaten me more as a Redskins fan more then just TO, Crayton, Witten and Bennett.

Mendenhall - Jones
Flowers - Jenkins
Bennett (Earl)/Doucet - Bennett (Martellus)

The first options is what you could have had compared to what you guys took. The first senario is much more dangerous to defenses then the second. Like I said before I don't HATE the Cowboys draft. I do like Jenkins and Bennett. If you compare to what you could have had, I would say you missed out on some. I don't see how you can say the Cowboys were winners when they missed out on the talent they did. I was comparing their draft when Scott called you winners compared to us losers. Out of his winners it happened that I disagreed the most with the Cowboys being winners then i did the other 5. If you weren't on his list I would have picked the team i disagreed with the most again. I would not have picked the Cowboys just for biased sake.

[LonghornsLegend]

I love how you started off by saying your not biased but discredited that with the rest of your post...Wasn't your original post about you disagreeing with Scott in the Redskins being losers? So how did all the criticism of the Cowboys come into play, I mean its not like you hate Dallas or anything, what Redskin fan hates the Cowboys:rolleyes:

[toddmlazarchick]

I love how you started off by saying your not biased but discredited that with the rest of your post...Wasn't your original post about you disagreeing with Scott in the Redskins being losers? So how did all the criticism of the Cowboys come into play, I mean its not like you hate Dallas or anything, what Redskin fan hates the Cowboys:rolleyes:

Once again i said I picked the Cowboys because of the 5 "winners" i thought the cowboys were the least deserving of the "winner" label. If dallas wasn't on the list i would have picked the team who i viewed the least deserving.

[TimD]

Why are the Jets losers again?

1.a Gholston - They get a freak who can put pressure on the qb and fits their system perfectly. The only knock on him was he didn't get a sack a game in college but if you look he was matched up against opposing teams best OL and still put pressure on the qb.

1.b Keller - They finally get someone who can stretch the field. HE IS NOT A TYPICAL TIGHT END. If people stop labeling him as a tight end its obvious to see he's a good pick. He can stretch the field and provide a safety net.

4. Lowry - Good pick. Lowry could emerge as the guy who can start opposite of Revis. If it wasn't for an injury before his senior year the all-american would have been a day 1 pick.

5. Ainge - Another solid pick that will provide competition at the QB spot as well as a long term project for the coaches.

6. Henry - Huge receiver with speed. Raw talent.

7. Garner - Depth pick.

[Addict]

IAC: You're overreacting. Nobody here is saying Millen suddenly became a great GM, all that is being said that for a change he appears not to have messed up.

Now with that said, I'm still not on the bandwagon for our draft, I think Cherilus isn't as good as Albert can be, Albert has the better ceiling, but I suppose Millen didn't want to risk burning his fingers on a potential player and just went with the safe guy.

Dizon I don't like, it's not even the talent that bothers me, Marinelli, in spite of it hardly ever showing last year, is a good defensive coach, and for now, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to assessing talent (he surely does it better than I do, he gets paid for it). I don't like Dizon's size, he's only 6'0 and we already have a short guy in our LB corps in Sims. But as I said, I'm not touching a linebacker selection with Marinelli there.

Smith was a good pick, I'm just hoping he's got some thread left. Could be good if they light a fire under Calhoun's ass, we could have a good (not great) rushing attack.

Avril I was happy to see, since he was one of the guys I thought would be a good fit in our system. Curious to see where he'll play. Probably DE but they might give him a go as a linebacker.

Fluellen I don't really know, but we had a hole at DT so I guess a big body can't hurt.

[Geo]

Fluellen is a stellar fit for the defense, as a one-gap tackle, his big knock was injuries in college. Plus he was forced to play NT as a junior thanks to injuries on the team.

I think the 3rd round pick they got from Shaun Rogers was used on him, which would be fitting as Marinelli molds the defense in his image.

[Maybe Next Year Millen2]

Fluellen is a stellar fit for the defense, as a one-gap tackle, his big knock was injuries in college. Plus he was forced to play NT as a junior thanks to injuries on the team.

I think the 3rd round pick they got from Shaun Rogers was used on him, which would be fitting as Marinelli molds the defense in his image.

I agree. I'll trust Marinellis judgment on Fluellen. He personally went down to FSU to watch him. Bodden plus Fluellen for Shaun Rogers. Very fitting.

[LonghornsLegend]

Once again i said I picked the Cowboys because of the 5 "winners" i thought the cowboys were the least deserving of the "winner" label. If dallas wasn't on the list i would have picked the team who i viewed the least deserving.

You would of picked Dallas either way, you really think our draft was worst then Detroits or Carolinas who gave up a future 1st for a RT? I can tell your nitpicking because you tried to bring up the Jenkins pick as a bad pick saying it would be corner value left at 28, ok so we screwed up by giving up a 5th and 7th rd pick for the #2 corner who was slated to go between 10-20 instead of taking a cover 2 corner? Damn, that 5th and 7th rd draft pick could of really helped us out since were rebuilding and everything, terrible job.


You do a terrible job acting like you don't have any bias vs the Cowboys, everytime youve ever posted in the Cowboys forum you were trolling and had something negative to say about Dallas, this is nothing new.


These type of comments
It's so much fun to read the Cowboys section of the forum and read how everyone already knows you are making the playoffs. You are one serious injury to TO (who is banged up every year) and you guys are screwed.

Really? What does all that have to do with this thread or the Redskins draft, yet you somehow found a way to bring it into the conversation.


In case you haven't noticed, no one cares what you, or any other Redskins fan for that matter has to say about the Cowboys draft, its like wasting your breath talking about it because your logic is always skewed.

[toddmlazarchick]

You would of picked Dallas either way, you really think our draft was worst then Detroits or Carolinas who gave up a future 1st for a RT? I can tell your nitpicking because you tried to bring up the Jenkins pick as a bad pick saying it would be corner value left at 28, ok so we screwed up by giving up a 5th and 7th rd pick for the #2 corner who was slated to go between 10-20 instead of taking a cover 2 corner? Damn, that 5th and 7th rd draft pick could of really helped us out since were rebuilding and everything, terrible job.


You do a terrible job acting like you don't have any bias vs the Cowboys, everytime youve ever posted in the Cowboys forum you were trolling and had something negative to say about Dallas, this is nothing new.

ok since you know what i was going to say either way. whats the lottery numbers for tomorrow night then?? No you aren't rebuilding but to say "in our situation" is assuming that you know you will be in the playoffs again. You arent just one or two pieces away from superbowl champs. I was debating this years draft. If Detroit or Carolina had 10 first round picks then i would think they got plenty of talent. You can not tell how next years draft is going to be. The talent could be horrible compared to this years. Its just speculation right now. I guess it means nothing to you that I have said twice already (here goes 3 times) that i like Bennett. I think he will do well in Dallas but i dont think it was a smart moving creating a hole by trading away your backup TE and having to use a 2nd round pick on another one. Witten and Bennett make up a great TE duo. And as far as me "trolling" I never just come out and say that "Oh Dallas is horrible they suck just because I said so!!" I have commented on Dallas fans saying that Carpenter was worth a first or very high second round pick in a trade. I thought i was way too high so i made a comment.

[toddmlazarchick]

You would of picked Dallas either way, you really think our draft was worst then Detroits or Carolinas who gave up a future 1st for a RT? I can tell your nitpicking because you tried to bring up the Jenkins pick as a bad pick saying it would be corner value left at 28, ok so we screwed up by giving up a 5th and 7th rd pick for the #2 corner who was slated to go between 10-20 instead of taking a cover 2 corner? Damn, that 5th and 7th rd draft pick could of really helped us out since were rebuilding and everything, terrible job.


You do a terrible job acting like you don't have any bias vs the Cowboys, everytime youve ever posted in the Cowboys forum you were trolling and had something negative to say about Dallas, this is nothing new.


These type of comments


Really? What does all that have to do with this thread or the Redskins draft, yet you somehow found a way to bring it into the conversation.


In case you haven't noticed, no one cares what you, or any other Redskins fan for that matter has to say about the Cowboys draft, its like wasting your breath talking about it because your logic is always skewed.

That comment was made for you comment of "the situation we are in"

[asmitty45]

also, how are the lions winners? i thought they had an awful draft....just because they picked up kevin smith? I didn't know 3rd round running backs could swing an awful draft to a great one....plus they grossly reached for dizon IMO. dan connor will be a much more solid player imo and though he may not have been a perfect fit for their system, its just evidence that better guys were availbable that dizon. And gosder? Why take a definite right tackle only when you could have had Otah who at least has the potential to make the move to left side long term. That would have been a perfect situation for him imo where he could stay on the right side to learn and kick over to left in the future.

As a Lions fan I agree that we reached for several players, but RT was a bigger need than LT, backus isn't any good but he's better than george foster.

Dizon was a slight reach but fits the tampa 2 very well as an MLB which was the biggest concern going into the draft. Conner isn't very good in coverage which is hy they didn't take him.

Kevin Smith will be the key to the draft though, we all saw what he did in college, now in a run-first system tht they are supposedly implementing in Detroit he should be a great between the tackles 25 carry back.

Positionally we had a great draft, player wise, we might as well have traded away our first b/c gosder is a 2nd rounder.

I wasn't thrilled with the draft but I do think it was solid.

[BeerBaron]

As a Lions fan I agree that we reached for several players, but RT was a bigger need than LT, backus isn't any good but he's better than george foster.

Dizon was a slight reach but fits the tampa 2 very well as an MLB which was the biggest concern going into the draft. Conner isn't very good in coverage which is hy they didn't take him.

Kevin Smith will be the key to the draft though, we all saw what he did in college, now in a run-first system tht they are supposedly implementing in Detroit he should be a great between the tackles 25 carry back.

Positionally we had a great draft, player wise, we might as well have traded away our first b/c gosder is a 2nd rounder.

I wasn't thrilled with the draft but I do think it was solid.

solid but not amongst the top 5 in the draft i wouldnt say...

[Sniper]

An Earl Bennett or Early Doucet teamed up with TO and Witten would threaten me more as a Redskins fan more then just TO, Crayton, Witten and Bennett.



That would make sense but Romo loves to throw to the tight end. It makes a lot of sense to get another TE especially after unloading Fasano. I hate both the Cowboys and Redskins, so this is a pretty neutral opinion.

[TacticaLion]

IAC: You're overreacting.Always. Every post.
Nobody here is saying Millen suddenly became a great GM, all that is being said that for a change he appears not to have messed up.

Now with that said, I'm still not on the bandwagon for our draft, I think Cherilus isn't as good as Albert can be, Albert has the better ceiling, but I suppose Millen didn't want to risk burning his fingers on a potential player and just went with the safe guy.

Dizon I don't like, it's not even the talent that bothers me, Marinelli, in spite of it hardly ever showing last year, is a good defensive coach, and for now, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to assessing talent (he surely does it better than I do, he gets paid for it). I don't like Dizon's size, he's only 6'0 and we already have a short guy in our LB corps in Sims. But as I said, I'm not touching a linebacker selection with Marinelli there.

Smith was a good pick, I'm just hoping he's got some thread left. Could be good if they light a fire under Calhoun's ass, we could have a good (not great) rushing attack.

Avril I was happy to see, since he was one of the guys I thought would be a good fit in our system. Curious to see where he'll play. Probably DE but they might give him a go as a linebacker.

Fluellen I don't really know, but we had a hole at DT so I guess a big body can't hurt.I actually love the Lions draft. A lot.

All: Tell me if you notice a trend:

Gosder Cherilus - A hard worker with top intangibles...Has a ton of experience against top-notch competition.
RT - A position of need.

Jordon Dizon - Has a non-stop motor...Tough...Aggressive and intense...Has a lot of experience...Team leader...Very smart.
MLB - A position of need.

Cliff Avril - Versatile with experience at multiple positions...Hard worker with top intangibles.
DE - A position of need.

Kenneth Moore - Is real versatile...Team player with excellent intangibles.
KR/PR - A position of need.

Jerome Felton - Extremely smart with top-notch intangibles...Has a ton of experience.

Caleb Campbell - Versatile...A hard worker...Team leader with elite intangibles.

Anyone notice a trend? They wanted Rice (who is another player with good intangibles), but Kevin Smith was great value and the best RB available. Flu isn't known for his intangibles, but is a great fit and the coaches love him.

Marinelli wants a group of players that love the game and play as a team. Did they reach for Gosder? Some would say. But, they wanted a true RT and Gosder was the best available. Did they reach for Dizon? Some would say. But, Dizon is an incredibly talented player that gives full effort and is a perfect fit.

If they would've waited on these players, other teams would've pulled the trigger and they would've been left empty handed. Dizon and Sims are going to make a great LB group, our pass-rush AND DT positions were improved and Gosder should be sitting at RT 10-12 years from now. When you add Bodden and Kelly (not to mention Dwight Smith and a healthy Bullocks) to the mix, the team was greatly improved.

All that being said, I don't think it was the 2nd best draft on paper... other teams took bigger names and had more picks in higher rounds. Over time, it'll show to be a great draft (potentially one of the best this year) for the franchise.

[BamaFalcon59]

Actually, Gosder was not a second rounder. There are several teams, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, San Diego, San Francisco, who most likely would have taken him if available. It was a decent value, and considering no offensive tackle was taken in round two it was a fine pick.

[BamaFalcon59]

Also, I think Rod Marinelli at head coach and Thomas Dimintroff at general manager would be a great duo. Both do not minding reaching for players if they get the one they want and solve a need position. They also both love character, intangibles, and 'pure football players'.

Anyways, that is just something I noticed.

[Sniper]

Actually, Gosder was not a second rounder. There are several teams, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, San Diego, San Francisco, who most likely would have taken him if available. It was a decent value, and considering no offensive tackle was taken in round two it was a fine pick.

Philadelphia doesn't need another RT.

[BlindSite]

Getting players that love the game, fit a system and fill a need is all Belicheck and his group have ever done. A lot of their picks were deemed reaches at one time or another too.

Not saying the Lions are the Patriots, but filling needs with players who'll work and want to fit is a good idea.

[TacticaLion]

Getting players that love the game, fit a system and fill a need is all Belicheck and his group have ever done. A lot of their picks were deemed reaches at one time or another too.

Not saying the Lions are the Patriots, but filling needs with players who'll work and want to fit is a good idea.

Exactly. I'd much rather they take a hard-working player that loves the game and fits their scheme than a player that doesn't fit and doesn't care, but was deemed "better value" on draft day.

[Bobo]

Titans needed points. Fisher said as much, and it really is that simple. They got a guy who is maybe the best swiss army knife available in this draft. He could put up points in the return game, run game, or pass game.

Of course a stud WR could help too....and every NFL team said there were none in the first round. After seeing what I could about the WR's before the draft, I was very skeptical about getting one in the first. I can understand the argument that Johnson is a reach, but this whole "the Titans need WR's!!!" thing is so overblown. And we could likely be waiting 3 years fro a WR to help, CJ should be able to step in right away.

They needed TE and RB receiving threats also (their production was really lame last year). Of course CJ can be one, and they talk like they think Craig Stevens just wasn't used much in the pass game, but has the potential to be a good blocker and receiver (certainly put up the combine #'s to make you think so). I never thought the Titans would have taken one of these weak blocking, receiving type TE's for their type of offense anyway.

The pass rush is what really helped the Titans D last year. And it came almost completely from the d-line (very little blitzing). They lost 2 guys who could get to the QB, so they try to fill those holes in the draft. I don't think it can be argued that Jason Jones was picked way too early. I thought he was a 2nd-3rd round guy, but the versatility he can bring to the line is something they obviously coveted. Maybe he doesn't fit every team, but for what the Titans like to do, he's a good fit.

Some "insiders" have said William Hayes was not a big reach and that he was a sleeper creating a lot of buzz among NFL teams. If you look at the physical tools he has, you can understand the pick. Even if he's a reach, he can fill a need. And if you look at what was left at DE after him, you can't say they missed out on anything spectacular (but of course someone who's never seen Brain Johnston play before will say "But Brian Johnston!).

Lavelle Hawkins could be a good pick in the 4th. Maybe a slot guy, but just from what I've seen from him, he'd fit that role well. Super quick feet and good balance. Supposedly pretty good hands too.

I guess the big thing is people can say the Titans reached at points. Maybe that's a valid point, but it's also a possibility that guy that fits their needs the most isn't there the next round. Some of the better teams in the league are drafting players higher based on their needs. I think you have to look a little deeper and know a little more about the team to see how this draft could turn out to be good. Oh and stop watching ESPN :)

[OzTitan]

If you look at the stats, you'll see the Titans WR production as a whole was actually up there and above a few other playoff teams in 08. More than the Chargers I believe (see how picking a 1st round WR helped them last year?). The Titans WR's lacked TD's, but Norm Chow rarely threw in the redzone. Yes, partly because VY and his WR's aren't a formula for a great passing attack, but there would have been more TD's if he wasn't so afraid to pass in the 20.

Where the stats for the Titans offense start to dip severely is RB and TE production catching the ball. It was quite poor compared to most other teams. So they go out and sign Crumpler, and they draft one of the best receiving RB's in the draft, if not the best (just a guess). If you really do your research, the Titans offseason starts to make a fair amount of sense.

The Titans need a #1 WR, but this draft offered no sure things there. You'd be hard pressed to ever see that at #24 in any draft. So they took need #1b - offensive speed. Anyone who thinks Chris Johnson wasn't a need really need to re-evaluate how they judge needs because the Titans offense was SLOOOOOOOW last season. They've never had a dynamic player on offense outside of QB, particularly not in recent seasons.

This is some research done by a poster known as WoodVegas on another messageboard:
Chris Johnson: Average RB ranking=5.7 (range=4-9, n=7)

Actual draft position=5th RB drafted


Jason Jones: Average DE ranking=9.3 (range=7-12, n=7)

Actual draft position=8th DE drafted


Craig Stevens: Average TE ranking=7.3 (range=5-9, n=7)

Actual draft position=6th TE drafted


William Hayes: Average DE ranking=44.2 (range=22-66, n=4)

Actual draft position=14th DE drafted


Lavelle Hawkins: Average WR ranking=15.4 (range=8-21, n=7)

Actual draft position=19th WR drafted


Stanford Kegler: Average OLB ranking=11.7 (range=6-19, n=7)

Actual draft position=8th OLB drafted


Cary Williams: Average CB ranking=29.0 (range=28-31, n=3)

Actual draft position=29th CB drafted
The average rankings were taken from NFL Draft Scout, Mel Kiper, Frank Coyle/Draft Insiders, Mike Detillier/M & D Draft Report, Pro Football Weekly, ESPN/Scouts Inc., and Sports Illustrated. Most of the Titans picks were "reaches", but not by much. Hawkins was a "steal". It's all fair and well to say "Chris Johnson is a 2nd round RB", but if he's the 5th taken off the board at 24 and most experts grade him as the 5th best RB, what difference does it make?

As I said before, if the Titans are the biggest losers in this draft the rest of the NFL did a pretty good job. I think if you look hard enough you'll actually see most picks were very much need fillers. Johnson speed, Jones on the DL, Stevens as a blocking TE (run first offense remember folks), Hawkins in the slot, Keglar as LB depth (big need that one), and Williams as another 7th round CB project (Courtland Finnegan says hello). Yes, Hayes was a weird pick but if you've been keeping up on the post draft scene you'll have heard about how he raced up some boards and this pick came recommended from Washburn himself, one of the league's best DL coaches and the reason why Tennessee has been a DL factory for a while. That, and I question why anyone thinks it's a bad pick anyway - just because you haven't heard of him doesn't mean much, unless you expect to know every prospect out there and how good they will be, which is silly.

Dunno, guess I'm still wondering why the Titans draft is perceived as so bad? Is it the WR thing? really? It's confusing to say the least, since it was proven a WR @ 24 would have been a reach for sure, and I'd honestly prefer CJ in the 1st and Hawkins in the 4th than some WR in the 1st and whatever offensive weapon existed in the 4th. Sometimes I think analysts get annoyed when teams don't do what they're "meant" to do and they don't clearly think through what they actually did do, when if they really knew their stuff in the first place, what they "meant" to do never really made much practical sense. The Titans didn't need another "maybe he'll be good in a few seasons" WR's.

[Addict]

Philadelphia doesn't need another RT.

exactly. Runyan is a spring chicken, folks!

[Sniper]

exactly. Runyan is a spring chicken, folks!

Winston Justice is a RT, not a LT. And a good one when you don't play him out of position with no tight end/running back help against an elite DE in his first game.

[Caddy]

I actually thought the Titans had a fairly reasonable draft. Is that not the popular belief on the forums?

[Addict]

I actually thought the Titans had a fairly reasonable draft. Is that not the popular belief on the forums?

three straight drafts a RB in the first 2 rounds.... they're actually starting to look like the Lions of running backs.

[OzTitan]

Except the earliest taken was 24th overall and we're talking a span of two rounds here, so it's really nothing like the Lions at all.

The Titans need 3 RB's, and Chris Brown left this offseason. All three were used in 07 so it was necessary to replace. When you have a chance to get a guy who ticks off a few needs from the list by himself (offensive speed and returner as well), it makes sense to me. It's not like Johnson isn't adding anything unique over what they already had. IMO poor drafting would be worrying about how many RB's you've taken and not taking another even though he's the top of your draft board and he fills needs, but that's just me.

That and categorizing Johnson as a "RB" like White and Henry doesn't really do him justice, as he is more than just a guy that can lineup behind the QB and run it. When he was shut down running in college he usually excelled catching the ball instead. That kind of weapon doesn't exist on the Titans, or it didn't anyway. Ultimately, the fact remains the Titans need big play ability in a bad, bad way and he brings that - position is secondary, just as long as it's a 'skill' position obviously. DeSean Jackson may have offered a similar upgrade but if they felt Chris Johnson was the better football player, it's silly to pass on that just because he has 'RB' next to his name.

[Gay Ork Wang]

I thought he would more likely be a Playmaker a RB/WR Hybrid

[OzTitan]

I thought he would more likely be a Playmaker a RB/WR Hybrid

I imagine so. I could definitely see him having receiving yards close or more than hus rushing yards as a rookie.

People look at the Titans WR roster and assume that's the problem, but the reality is the Titans offense has no one that scared a defense in any position. VY is the closest and he's a developing QB, and he's much easier to contain when you have a slow power RB taking the bulk of the carries. Play action, rollouts, sweeps etc are pointless when the D doesn't respect the RB's ability to burn them. With Johnson's speed, you have to account for someone other than VY on the Titans offense now. He will help spread defenses out - D's can't be as relaxed on PA boots. Motioning Johnson out to the slot will cause defenses to adjust a little. Some creativity can be introduced to the offense. Couple that with a not-so-long-removed-from-the-pro-bowl TE, and you may be on to something. And, as I said in the above post, if you think the Titans WR stats were bad, go look up the team's receiving stats at RB and TE - the latter of which is arguably more important for a QB like Vince than WR production.

WR is a priority, but it's not so much a priority that they should abandon all other needs and reach on what WR the draft has available for the heck of it. That may have generate initial praise for the Titans but it's a lousy way to draft. He may not work out at all, but I can't see how anyone can say the realistic impact Johnson could have for the Titans offense is less than any of the WR's. His versatility alone I think secures that.

[Jughead10]

As I said before, if the Titans are the biggest losers in this draft the rest of the NFL did a pretty good job. I think if you look hard enough you'll actually see most picks were very much need fillers. Johnson speed, Jones on the DL, Stevens as a blocking TE (run first offense remember folks), Hawkins in the slot, Keglar as LB depth (big need that one), and Williams as another 7th round CB project (Courtland Finnegan says hello). Yes, Hayes was a weird pick but if you've been keeping up on the post draft scene you'll have heard about how he raced up some boards and this pick came recommended from Washburn himself, one of the league's best DL coaches and the reason why Tennessee has been a DL factory for a while. That, and I question why anyone thinks it's a bad pick anyway - just because you haven't heard of him doesn't mean much, unless you expect to know every prospect out there and how good they will be, which is silly.

Rumor is that you guys pulled the trigger on him because the Giants were also in talks to trade up and grab him.

[OzTitan]

Right, Hayes also said the Jags and Colts paid a lot of attention to him (although the Jags probably weren't taking another DE). The Lions brought him in for a visit for were also apparently quite interested. The fact the Titans traded up to get him suggests he wasn't some unknown prospect 31 GM's collectively thought "er wtf?" over. The thing is, no analyst is really ever going to be privy to such things before or during the draft and none have the resources to see what the team scouts see when you scale this far down the college ladder. Criticizing or praising the pick is exceptionally hard IMO.

[Seasonticketholder]

Maybe the Lions are winners for not taking a WR. Just kidding. In all seriousness, I thought the Lions got players that fit well in their scheme. I think they reached a little bit but if the players end up fitting as well as they look like they will on paper, they should be an improved football team. Now, I do not know if that will necessarily translate to more wins. But you should see better play.

I would not, however, tab them as winners.

[Jughead10]

Right, Hayes also said the Jags and Colts paid a lot of attention to him (although the Jags probably weren't taking another DE). The Lions brought him in for a visit for were also apparently quite interested. The fact the Titans traded up to get him suggests he wasn't some unknown prospect 31 GM's collectively thought "er wtf?" over. The thing is, no analyst is really ever going to be privy to such things before or during the draft and none have the resources to see what the team scouts see when you scale this far down the college ladder. Criticizing or praising the pick is exceptionally hard IMO.

You can also never have enough pass rushers. Giants former GM Ernie Accorsi said that and that philosophy basically got us a Super Bowl, so it is hard to disagree with. It was also in the paper today, that had Kenny Phillips not been there for the Giants, we were going to take Merling. As crazy as that sounds. Had we done that I'm sure we would have been in Scott's loser category. But who knows about winners and losers until they take the field. At this time last year, I wasn't crazy about our draft. I was sure proven wrong. It's just someone's opinion.

[rockio42]

I imagine so. I could definitely see him having receiving yards close or more than hus rushing yards as a rookie.

People look at the Titans WR roster and assume that's the problem, but the reality is the Titans offense has no one that scared a defense in any position. VY is the closest and he's a developing QB, and he's much easier to contain when you have a slow power RB taking the bulk of the carries. Play action, rollouts, sweeps etc are pointless when the D doesn't respect the RB's ability to burn them. With Johnson's speed, you have to account for someone other than VY on the Titans offense now. He will help spread defenses out - D's can't be as relaxed on PA boots. Motioning Johnson out to the slot will cause defenses to adjust a little. Some creativity can be introduced to the offense. Couple that with a not-so-long-removed-from-the-pro-bowl TE, and you may be on to something. And, as I said in the above post, if you think the Titans WR stats were bad, go look up the team's receiving stats at RB and TE - the latter of which is arguably more important for a QB like Vince than WR production.

WR is a priority, but it's not so much a priority that they should abandon all other needs and reach on what WR the draft has available for the heck of it. That may have generate initial praise for the Titans but it's a lousy way to draft. He may not work out at all, but I can't see how anyone can say the realistic impact Johnson could have for the Titans offense is less than any of the WR's. His versatility alone I think secures that.

What happened to Bo Scaife, I thought he was more than an average reciever at TE?

And do you really think Devin Thomas, DeSean Jackson, or Limas Sweed were THAT bad of value at 24?

[OzTitan]

Scaife is best suited as a #2 TE, or a #3 really since the Titans usually make their #2 TE the best blocking TE, which will be Stevens out of Cal. He really didn't perform that well last season, was slow, dropped a lot etc. Decent but nice to upgrade.

No, I don't think they're terrible value as prospects, but as far as the Titans go, they're not great fits because the Titans already have a bunch of mid level WR's and I don't think any of those guys really add a whole lot. If the Titans could draft Calvin Johnson, fantastic, but drafting a WR in the 1st round out of a class where NO ONE was even close to guessing the order they came off the board (an indication of the lack of a top tier) seems like a forced pick to me, and I hate forced picks. DeSean probably adds the most to the Titans but then if you like Chris Johnson more as a football player like the Titans did you may as well go for him - both add a lot of speed to the offense and ST. CJ is slightly more versatile and I think has a higher ceiling in the NFL (though I would have liked DeSean fine).

I mostly wonder why people think Chris Johnson was terrible value but then proclaim WR was the best choice, when it was proven they actually were reaches at 24. Johnson may not have lasted a few more picks after 24 for all we know. What we do know is most of the WR's lasted considerably after 24, the media/mainstream fav to the Titans in Sweed (who just about every Titans fan said the team wouldn't draft in the 1st) lasting until one pick before the Titans 2nd no less. When you really look at it, just about anyone the Titans would have picked at 24 was a "reach" to some degree. And then of course you have the people fixated on the '3rd RB chosen in as many years on the 1st day' fact, but it's really not that big a deal due to many reasons, not to mention at the very worst it's an indication of past draft effectiveness and not really this one at all. The Titans - a run first team - would probably be criticized to no end if they were too proud to finally draft a "RB" in the first round because they drafted a few before in similar positions and the position suffered on the field because of it.

[Bobo]

I have to agree with Oz about the RB deal for the Titans. Lendale and Chris Johnson should hardly been considered the same just because they are both RB's. The type of player Johnson is really puts him into another category rarely seen.

They can find several ways to get Johnson the ball, and I'm sure he touches the ball more (especially earlier on) than any WR. I'll take Johnson getting more opportunities to make a big play vs reaching for Thomas, Jackson or Sweed with less opportunities.