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D-Unit
05-02-2008, 09:19 PM
Post yours.

Can someone from each team post the DB depth chart?

Cowboys:

CB Terence Newman / Mike Jenkins
CB Anthony Henry / Orlando Scandrick
NB Adam Jones / Alan Ball
FS Ken Hamlin / Pat Watkins
SS Roy Williams / Courtney Brown

Eagles:

CB Asante Samuel / Joselio Hanson
CB Lito Sheppard / Nick Graham
CB Sheldon Brown / Tarnard Davis
FS Brian Dawkins / Quintin Demps
SS Sean Considine / Quintin Mikell

LonghornsLegend
05-02-2008, 11:04 PM
D were you looking for individual player rankings, or team rankings as a unit?

Turtlepower
05-02-2008, 11:06 PM
As far as teams go:

1. Eagles
2. Cowboys
3. Giants
4. Redskins

Yung Flippa
05-02-2008, 11:20 PM
1) Eagles
2) Redskins
3) Cowboys
4) Giants

GB12
05-02-2008, 11:27 PM
1) Eagles
2) Redskins
3) Cowboys
4) Giants

Wow, are you serious? How can you possibly justify the Redskins corners being better than the Cowboys? Washington isn't even close to being equal to them, sure as hell not above them.

I'd rank them:
1. Dallas
2. Philadelphia
3. New York
4. Washington

eaglesfan_45
05-03-2008, 11:34 AM
1.)Eagles
2.)Cowboys
3.)Giants
4.)Redskins

Eagles Depth Chart

CB- Asante Samuel, Joselio Hanson
CB- Lito Sheppard, Nick Graham
CB- Sheldon Brown, Tarnard Davis
FS- Brian Dawkins, Quintin Demps
SS- Sean Considine, Quintin Mikell

amerker
05-04-2008, 12:06 AM
1-Dallas
2-Philadelphia
3-New York
4-Washington

Dallas wins because they have more quality depth at corner and superior safeties

And i really like how webster played for the giants during their super bowl run

Paul
05-04-2008, 12:09 AM
1-Dallas
2-Philadelphia
3-New York
4-Washington

Dallas wins because they have more quality depth at corner and superior safeties

And i really like how webster played for the giants during their super bowl run

If only that were true.

703SKINS202
05-05-2008, 01:00 PM
LOL superior safeties...thats called ST(RIP) and Laron...

Skins:

CB: Shawn Springs, Carlos Rogers, Fred Smoot, Justin Tryon, Leigh Torrence
SS: Laron Landry, Vernon Fox
FS: Reed Doughty, Kareem Moore, Chris Horton

McBain
05-06-2008, 02:28 PM
1-Dallas
2-Philadelphia
3-New York
4-Washington

Dallas wins because they have more quality depth at corner and superior safeties

And i really like how webster played for the giants during their super bowl run

lol....

First, the giants secondary was good because there pass rush was so good.... Second Philly traded away lito sheppard third dallas has roy williams. I'll say that dallas may have the CB tandem... but not by much....

bsaza2358
05-06-2008, 02:30 PM
Actually, Quentin Mikell is likely the starter at SS with Considine as the #2.

neko4
05-06-2008, 04:46 PM
Wow, are you serious? How can you possibly justify the Redskins corners being better than the Cowboys? Washington isn't even close to being equal to them, sure as hell not above them.

I'd rank them:
1. Dallas
2. Philadelphia
3. New York
4. Washington

Ummm... because of Roy Williams

Rodgers (if healthy), Smoot and Springs is a good trio. Not as good as Dallas' but Laron Landry should emerge as one of the best Safeties in the league next year.

Eaglez.Fan
05-06-2008, 04:48 PM
1) Eagles
2) Cowboys (Even though both safeties should not have been in the PB and RW should not even start on an NFL team)
3) Redskins
4) Giants

Sniper
05-06-2008, 04:49 PM
Second Philly traded away lito sheppard

I must have missed this trade...

Burns336
05-12-2008, 02:54 AM
1) Eagles
2) Cowboys (Even though both safeties should not have been in the PB and RW should not even start on an NFL team)
3) Redskins
4) Giants

Who should have been in the pro bowl from the NFC over Hamlin?

Caddy
05-12-2008, 03:40 AM
Who should have been in the pro bowl from the NFC over Hamlin?

Tanard Jackson and/or Jermaine Phillips!

eaglesalltheway
05-12-2008, 07:03 AM
I must have missed this trade...

I know, really...I mean honestly. This McBain dude needs to think a little harder.
Heres how I rank it.
Eagles
Cowboys
Redskins
Giants.

eaglesalltheway
05-12-2008, 07:05 AM
Actually, Quentin Mikell is likely the starter at SS with Considine as the #2.

It is pretty close right now, it could go to anyone, but Considine seems to be the favorite if you ask me.

amerker
05-13-2008, 01:12 AM
If only that were true.

Dallas Starting safeties-Ken Hamlin(pro bowler)
Roy williams(pro bowler though admittedly not as
good as he was but till has tons of
potential to make a comeback)

Philly Starting Safeties- Brian Dawkins(old and past his prime)
Quintin Mikell( who?)

Washington Starting Safeties
Laron Landry( Future all pro safety)
Rees Doughty( enough said)

New York Football Giants Starting Safeties
Kenny Philips(good potential but not expected to be the next ed reid but will be very good)
James Butler(average nfl starter)

Too bad the cowboys DO have superior safeties and it is obvious that the cowboys have the better corners in the division if not the league so that isnt even worth arguing about

amerker
05-13-2008, 01:19 AM
lol....

First, the giants secondary was good because there pass rush was so good.... Second Philly traded away lito sheppard third dallas has roy williams. I'll say that dallas may have the CB tandem... but not by much....

I dont recall philly trading away sheppard yet and the cowboys dont win the corners by much? name some quality backup corners behind asante samuel and lito sheppard or sam madison and aaron ross i can think of one jason webster and that is it the cowboys have newman(espn all pro, pro bowler) Pacman, Anthony henry led league in ints halfway through season but fell due to injury, Mike freakin Jenkins, Orlando scandrick is our 5th cb...so they win by alot,

see above response on safeties to disprove your point even more

703SKINS202
05-13-2008, 02:16 AM
Dallas Starting safeties-Ken Hamlin(pro bowler)
Roy williams(pro bowler though admittedly not as
good as he was but till has tons of
potential to make a comeback)

Philly Starting Safeties- Brian Dawkins(old and past his prime)
Quintin Mikell( who?)

Washington Starting Safeties
Laron Landry( Future all pro safety)
Rees Doughty( enough said)

New York Football Giants Starting Safeties
Kenny Philips(good potential but not expected to be the next ed reid but will be very good)
James Butler(average nfl starter)

Too bad the cowboys DO have superior safeties and it is obvious that the cowboys have the better corners in the division if not the league so that isnt even worth arguing about

i can already tell you are on your way to many red bars and disappointments in life

eaglesalltheway
05-13-2008, 06:47 AM
Dallas Starting safeties-Ken Hamlin(pro bowler)
Roy williams(pro bowler though admittedly not as
good as he was but till has tons of
potential to make a comeback)

Philly Starting Safeties- Brian Dawkins(old and past his prime)
Quintin Mikell( who?)

Washington Starting Safeties
Laron Landry( Future all pro safety)
Rees Doughty( enough said)

New York Football Giants Starting Safeties
Kenny Philips(good potential but not expected to be the next ed reid but will be very good)
James Butler(average nfl starter)

Too bad the cowboys DO have superior safeties and it is obvious that the cowboys have the better corners in the division if not the league so that isnt even worth arguing about

Not being a homer, but here is how I see it going this year. Dawkins is still the best S in the division, better than both of the Giants Safeties combined right now. Redskins have the second best S in the division already in Landry, and with Doughty in there, Dawk may be better than both of those two, though it is very close. The sad thing is though, if not for the Sean Taylor tragedy, it wouldn't even be a contest, the Skins would be ahead overall by a mile. Cowboys have the third best S in Hamlin, but Roy (I'll let Cowboy fans fill in that blank) I don't know why there are so many people who automatically think Mikell is going to win the SS spot for the Eagles, but if you ask me, Considine will win it out. Here is how I rank the Starting Safeties in the NFC East.
1. Brian Dawkins. Even with aging, he still is the best in the division, though if he sticks around, not for long.
2. Laron Landry. Already #2 in the division, and this time next year will be #1, maybe even in the entire league. Already very close to #1.
3. Ken Hamlin. Solid FA pickup last year by the boys, don't know how long he will be around though.
4. Roy Williams. Actually one of my favorite players in the league, though very one-dimensional to say the least.
5. Kenny Phillips. One of my favorite players in this years draft. Though nto expected to be an Ed Reed or Laron Landry, but will be an above average starter. In two or three years, he could be #2 or #3 on this list.
6. Sean Considine. An above average starter at SS, though not really noticed or cared for by most Eagles fans. Even if Mikell would win, he would take the #6 spot.
7. James Butler. A solid starter, nothing special, but will get the job done.
8. Rees Doughty. Should probably be replaced in the near future. Shouldn't be starting, and won't be for long.

By those rankings, in one to eight, and averaging each teams starters, it is very close between the boys and Eagles, and the Skins will undoubtedly have the best S in two years, but for now, Lanrdy stacks up as a very close #2 behind Dawk. 1 and 2 are very close, 3 thorugh 6 are close, though not close enough to warrart any of those beign switched, IMO. Butler is a lock at 7, and Doughty...
Average Starter for the Giants (out of 8) =6
Average Starter for the Skins (out pf 8) =5
Average Starter for the Boys (out of 8) =3.5
Average Starter for the Eagles (out of 8) =3.5
Both the Eagles and boys are tied for the best S duo going by those numbers, now its just a matter of preference.

eaglesalltheway
05-13-2008, 06:49 AM
i can already tell you are on your way to many red bars and disappointments in life

Amerker, you are doomed to that life of red bars and disapointments in life. 703SKINS202 has spoken...

703SKINS202
05-13-2008, 12:15 PM
Amerker, you are doomed to that life of red bars and disapointments in life. 703SKINS202 has spoken...

The funny thing is that you are almost as bad as him. How anyone has Roy Williams ranked the 4th best safety in the division or even considers him a starter in the NFL is beyond me, it makes me question how much you know about football. And just like Amerker you refer to Reed Doughty as " Rees Doughty" so that makes me wonder if you even know who he really is and whether or not your comments are valid.

TheGreatEscape
05-13-2008, 12:31 PM
Here's how I think the Gmen start the season

CB: Aaron Ross / Sam Madison
CB: Corey Webster / Tyrell Thomas
NB: Tyrell Thomas / Kevin Dockery
S: Kenny Phillips / James Butler
S: Sam Knight / Michael Johnson

As for rankings I'll go:
1. Eagles
3 high caliber starting corners and one of the league's best safeties in Dawkins, considine should be a solid starter.
2. Cowboys
Newman and Pacman can be an incredible duo, henry is good at playing the ball and Hamlin had a great bounceback season but I think his play comes back down a little this season and Roy Williams neeeds to be a nickel LB instead of a starting safety, unless he wants Shockey and Boss to embarass him.
3. Giants
We're young and unproven but we have a bunch of guys who fit our scheme and will excell with our pass rush. At safety Knight gives us a vet to help the young guys mentally and 2 young, raw safety's wth great potential in this scheme.
4. Skins
I understand those who rank them higher but I disagree, Landry played incredible when who took Taylor's spot, but I just can't imagine the corners to all still be playing by January.

Or Moyal
05-13-2008, 12:39 PM
1. Dallas
2. Philly (Albeit, very close)
3. Wash
4. NYG
You can't beat the Cowboys' ability OR depth at CB. They can go 4 deep without flinching. Hamlin is a good safety, Roy isn't a good player anymore but he's not TERRIBLE when you factor in that he's still pretty good in run support.
Philly has the best safety in the division and a terrif CB trio. NY is retooling their secondary and it could be pretty good, but the playoffs were smoke and mirrors last year. If you count on Corey Webster regularly, you're in deep ****.
I don't like the Washington corners, but Landry could very well eclipse Dawkins this season.

eaglesalltheway
05-13-2008, 01:15 PM
And just like Amerker you refer to Reed Doughty as " Rees Doughty" .

Typo, sorry

eaglesalltheway
05-13-2008, 01:16 PM
1. Dallas
2. Philly (Albeit, very close)You can't beat the Cowboys' ability OR depth at CB. They can go 4 deep without flinching.
3. Wash
4. NYG
Hamlin is a good safety, Roy isn't a good player anymore but he's not TERRIBLE when you factor in that he's still pretty good in run support.
Philly has the best safety in the division and a terrif CB trio. NY is retooling their secondary and it could be pretty good, but the playoffs were smoke and mirrors last year. If you count on Corey Webster regularly, you're in deep ****.
I don't like the Washington corners, but Landry could very well eclipse Dawkins this season.

I agree with pretty much all of that.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-13-2008, 02:37 PM
The playoffs were smoke and mirrors? That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. We stopped 2 hall of fame QBs, and 1 good qb in Garcia, and another good QB in Romo. Our secondary was complimented by a good pass rush, but our guys did a good job on the people they covered. We did enough to win games, and in the end that's all I want from this team. To win games.

skinzzfan25
05-13-2008, 02:46 PM
1a Eagles
1b Cowboys
2a Redskins
2b Giants

Two tiers, however I think all the teams are in the top 15-17 in the NFL.

Geo
05-13-2008, 02:48 PM
I also strongly disagree that the Giants' secondary was smoke and mirrors in the playoffs. Even if you make the argument that shutting down Dallas and Green Bay on the road is discounted because Dallas and Favre (both unsurprisingly) faded badly in the playoffs, they still played well against the Patriots.

Now that said, the secondary won't play that well from here on out, but they produced a great run at the best time last season. Sort of like the Colts' run defense in 06, now that I think about it.

*****

How I'd rank the team's secondaries:

1. Philly- I like Nate Clements alot, but the better signing was Asante Samuel by the Iggles this yr imo. He's a playmaker.

2. Dallas- Assuming Adam Jones is reinstated, that ensures the #2 spot. But Newman is an excellent cover corner regardless, and adding Jenkins will help long-term if not short-term also.

3. G-Men- Not the best secondary in the division, but they have the best pass rush to complement the crew they have. Aaron Ross was a big addition last year.

4. Washington- the loss of Sean Taylor only makes the pick of Laron Landry look better, but there's still some questions marks elsewhere and the recovery of Carlos Rogers.

eaglesalltheway
05-13-2008, 03:29 PM
The funny thing is that you are almost as bad as him. How anyone has Roy Williams ranked the 4th best safety in the division or even considers him a starter in the NFL is beyond me, it makes me question how much you know about football. And just like Amerker you refer to Reed Doughty as " Rees Doughty" so that makes me wonder if you even know who he really is and whether or not your comments are valid.

As bad as Roy is unliked by most on this site, there is no solid answer as to the ones below in my rankings who are better. Kenny Phillips is my #5. He has 0 experience, but I also said that shortly he could be #2 or #3 in the division. Considine and Mikell are both good, but not as good as Williams. They are Eagles players, and I am saying that a Cowboy player is better than either of them, that should be enough for almost anyone. If you wish to argue that, I am welcome to it. Both Butler and Ree(d) ...Making sure I put a d:)... Doughty are not anywhere near Williams, though there is no doubt that Butler is the more capable starter. Doughty doesn't just fill the roster spot, don't get me wrong, but it isn't like he does anything spectacular. He isn't flashy and doesn't seem to have an eye for the ball. He lacks instincts, but maybe with more PT he can improve it. Feel free to put any of the 5-8 Safeties in front of Williams, but I will certainly have a rebuttal to that argument.

BaLLiN
05-13-2008, 04:24 PM
Here's how I think the Gmen start the season

CB: Aaron Ross / Sam Madison
CB: Corey Webster / Tyrell Thomas
NB: Tyrell Thomas / Kevin Dockery
S: Kenny Phillips / James Butler
S: Sam Knight / Michael Johnson


CB:

1. Aaron Ross
2. Sam Madison
3. Corey Webster
4. Terrell Thomas
5. Kevin Dockery
6. RW McQuarters

I think we will cut RW this offseason. Ross could still move inside on Nickel packages, Madison may be cut if we have confidence in Ross Webster Thomas Dockery.

Ross, Webster, Madison, Dockery, and McQuarters have all started for us at one time last year and the year before (except ross was in college).

Ross has everything to become a shut down corner, needs to add some bulk, improve on tackling specifically.

Webster really impressed at the end of the year and playoffs. He is back in his college scheme and showed he could defend the deep ball and everything else pretty much. He's physical, has long arms, good at coming from behind the reciever and swatting it down.

Madison is Madison, he is a seasoned veteran and probably our best DB right now.

Terrell Thomas could be a real find, not sure how he is though.

Kevin Dockery is really underrated, he tackles very well, doesnt have the height but tries very hard and makes good plays on the ball. He would be great in the nickel, but might be pushed back to dime. He split time starting with Ross this year.

RW is good with his hands, alright tackling, covering is not that good.


FS:

1. Kenny Phillips
2. Sammy Knight
3. James Butler
4. Michael Johnson

SS:

1. Sammy Knight
2. Kenny Phillips
3. Michael Johnson
4. James Butler

Kenny could really be a good player for us, he could play either safety position and makes plays. Knight is a good veteran who could teach him

Our weakness was 1 player, James Butler. he combined with Gibril wilson's coverage was a disaster, big plays would be given up because both of them cant cover very well. We brought in a FA who will definitely start at one position. Then we brought in a rookie safety with our first round pick, Phillips. I think Phillips will be starting early, but if either of them dont work out, James Butler when he wasnt injured was alright, Michael Johnson is still improving and could've been starting for us if we didnt get phillips.

BaLLiN
05-13-2008, 04:24 PM
I think it should go

1. Dallas
2. Philly
3. Giants/Washington

eaglesfan_45
05-13-2008, 08:47 PM
The funny thing is that you are almost as bad as him. How anyone has Roy Williams ranked the 4th best safety in the division or even considers him a starter in the NFL is beyond me, it makes me question how much you know about football. And just like Amerker you refer to Reed Doughty as " Rees Doughty" so that makes me wonder if you even know who he really is and whether or not your comments are valid.

Now that is the worst post of the 3, how can you even say that Roy Williams isn't a starter. I don't really like him but come on, lets not be dumb.

eaglesfan_45
05-13-2008, 08:50 PM
Also, why is dallas rated so highly, yeah they are good but c'mon. Mike Jenkins is a rookie and you don't know if he will pan out or not. Pac-Man isn't even allowed back in the league yet and Roy Williams is at best an average coverage safety.

skinzzfan25
05-13-2008, 08:56 PM
Now that is the worst post of the 3, how can you even say that Roy Williams isn't a starter. I don't really like him but come on, lets not be dumb.

I don't know. Teams used to shy away from him but now he's being targeted.

I think besides the Cowboys who have been loyal to him and vice versa, he wouldn't be starting in many other spots.

amerker
05-13-2008, 09:59 PM
The funny thing is that you are almost as bad as him. How anyone has Roy Williams ranked the 4th best safety in the division or even considers him a starter in the NFL is beyond me, it makes me question how much you know about football. And just like Amerker you refer to Reed Doughty as " Rees Doughty" so that makes me wonder if you even know who he really is and whether or not your comments are valid.

well that makes sense because nobody else knows who he is...it was actually a typo, what does that mean anyway?

amerker
05-13-2008, 10:04 PM
Not being a homer, but here is how I see it going this year. Dawkins is still the best S in the division, better than both of the Giants Safeties combined right now. Redskins have the second best S in the division already in Landry, and with Doughty in there, Dawk may be better than both of those two, though it is very close. The sad thing is though, if not for the Sean Taylor tragedy, it wouldn't even be a contest, the Skins would be ahead overall by a mile. Cowboys have the third best S in Hamlin, but Roy (I'll let Cowboy fans fill in that blank) I don't know why there are so many people who automatically think Mikell is going to win the SS spot for the Eagles, but if you ask me, Considine will win it out. Here is how I rank the Starting Safeties in the NFC East.
1. Brian Dawkins. Even with aging, he still is the best in the division, though if he sticks around, not for long.
2. Laron Landry. Already #2 in the division, and this time next year will be #1, maybe even in the entire league. Already very close to #1.
3. Ken Hamlin. Solid FA pickup last year by the boys, don't know how long he will be around though.
4. Roy Williams. Actually one of my favorite players in the league, though very one-dimensional to say the least.
5. Kenny Phillips. One of my favorite players in this years draft. Though nto expected to be an Ed Reed or Laron Landry, but will be an above average starter. In two or three years, he could be #2 or #3 on this list.
6. Sean Considine. An above average starter at SS, though not really noticed or cared for by most Eagles fans. Even if Mikell would win, he would take the #6 spot.
7. James Butler. A solid starter, nothing special, but will get the job done.
8. Rees Doughty. Should probably be replaced in the near future. Shouldn't be starting, and won't be for long.

By those rankings, in one to eight, and averaging each teams starters, it is very close between the boys and Eagles, and the Skins will undoubtedly have the best S in two years, but for now, Lanrdy stacks up as a very close #2 behind Dawk. 1 and 2 are very close, 3 thorugh 6 are close, though not close enough to warrart any of those beign switched, IMO. Butler is a lock at 7, and Doughty...
Average Starter for the Giants (out of 8) =6
Average Starter for the Skins (out pf 8) =5
Average Starter for the Boys (out of 8) =3.5
Average Starter for the Eagles (out of 8) =3.5
Both the Eagles and boys are tied for the best S duo going by those numbers, now its just a matter of preference.

Ha sorry but you are being a homer, i am using these things called stats now(they are all over the internet) Dawkins isnt close to being the best safety in the division Hamlin(62 tkls, 5 ints) Dawkins(37 tkls 1int) and before you start with th "dawkins didnt play the full season!!" do the math if dawkins kept playing at the same rate(3.7 tkls a game) throughout the end of the season he would have ended with about 60 tkls and maybe 2 or 3 ints even laron landry had 95 tackles(twice as many as dawkins) so it is debatable between hamlin and landry.

Or Moyal
05-13-2008, 10:17 PM
Ha sorry but you are being a homer, i am using these things called stats now(they are all over the internet) Dawkins isnt close to being the best safety in the division Hamlin(62 tkls, 5 ints) Dawkins(37 tkls 1int) and before you start with th "dawkins didnt play the full season!!" do the math if dawkins kept playing at the same rate(3.7 tkls a game) throughout the end of the season he would have ended with about 60 tkls and maybe 2 or 3 ints even laron landry had 95 tackles(twice as many as dawkins) so it is debatable between hamlin and landry.

I hate to bag on a fellow Pokes fan, but using tackle stats to measure a safety's value isn't the smartest way to go about things.
Hell, Roy always puts up big tackle numbers. The problem is, he records most of those 25 yards past the line of scrimmage after being burned.

amerker
05-13-2008, 11:56 PM
Typo, sorry

ya i made the same typo but who really knows who this guy is?

eaglesalltheway
05-14-2008, 06:47 AM
I don't know. Teams used to shy away from him but now he's being targeted.

I think besides the Cowboys who have been loyal to him and vice versa, he wouldn't be starting in many other spots.

There is such a thing as loyalty, and then there is stupidity. The Cowboys are too smart to let him start if there is someone better than him sitting on the bench.

eaglesalltheway
05-14-2008, 06:58 AM
Ha sorry but you are being a homer, i am using these things called stats now(they are all over the internet) Dawkins isnt close to being the best safety in the division Hamlin(62 tkls, 5 ints) Dawkins(37 tkls 1int) and before you start with th "dawkins didnt play the full season!!" do the math if dawkins kept playing at the same rate(3.7 tkls a game) throughout the end of the season he would have ended with about 60 tkls and maybe 2 or 3 ints even laron landry had 95 tackles(twice as many as dawkins) so it is debatable between hamlin and landry.

Like it was said before, stats only tell a part of the story. That goes for alomost any position, but especially secondary. What isn't shown is he was playing hurt for at least three or four of the games he played. I try this thing called watching the games. And when something doesn't seem normal you get more information and do research as to what may have contributed to that change. If you watch the games, you can tell that Dawk is hurt in some of them, though he masks it well. Dawkins is also good in run support, and our front 7 drastically improved last year, which kept runners from reaching the secondary, which will also cut down on Safety's tackles. I will acknowledge this though, Hamlin was in his first year in the Cowboys system. I don't know how different the Cowboys coverage schemes differ fromt hat of Seattle, but either way, Hamlin did perform well in his first season for the Boys. One thing to bring up, Hamlin lasted really long in the Free Agency Market last year. Was that because of his injury, wasn't it a scull fracture or something, or what was the deal with him lasting so long? This time last year I was hoping half-heartedly the Eagles would make an attempt to pick him up.

Or Moyal
05-14-2008, 08:10 AM
Yeah, I have to think that the reluctance with Hamlin stemmed back to his injury and possible character issues that they associated with it, whether justified or not. It seems now that it was just like the Chris Canty concerns; Paranoia. He's a fine teammate and a very nice player to have. Perhaps not a pro bowler, but worth that 4.5 mil franchise tag.

eaglesalltheway
05-14-2008, 09:57 AM
Do you think he will get signed to a longer deal, or will he walk next season?

TheGreatEscape
05-14-2008, 11:08 AM
I like Madison but this year he's there more as a mentor, because Ross has to start, Webster has to get PT and I think Thomas plays the Ross role this year. We could start the season with ross and madison starting and webster playing the nickel but as long as Thomas is healthy I think it's only a matter of time until he's in as the nickel.

At safety I think Michael Johnson's better than Butler at both spots, and if he has a good TC and Knight struggles Johnson would step in for him. Now I expect Knight to be consistent enough to keep Johnson on the bench but this kid will be a starter in this league.

Or Moyal
05-14-2008, 01:29 PM
I think Hamlin's coming back unless the Cowboys inexplicably move Mike Jenkins to FS, a position where some say he would fit better. The reasoning would be that the team can already go 3 deep at CB very easily (Until Henry leaves, or possibly longer if Scandrick plays like he did at minicamp).
The problem is as such: Barber, Canty, Hamlin, Newman, and TO are all due for new deals this year. TO is the only player on that list who won't be getting a significant raise. Can the Cowboys afford to give Hamlin a deal similar to the one Al Davis handed Gibril Wilson? It's hard to say right now, but if the secondary looks like it can shore itself up, that extra cap room is going to look very attractive.

amerker
05-14-2008, 11:50 PM
Like it was said before, stats only tell a part of the story. That goes for alomost any position, but especially secondary. What isn't shown is he was playing hurt for at least three or four of the games he played. I try this thing called watching the games. And when something doesn't seem normal you get more information and do research as to what may have contributed to that change. If you watch the games, you can tell that Dawk is hurt in some of them, though he masks it well. Dawkins is also good in run support, and our front 7 drastically improved last year, which kept runners from reaching the secondary, which will also cut down on Safety's tackles. I will acknowledge this though, Hamlin was in his first year in the Cowboys system. I don't know how different the Cowboys coverage schemes differ fromt hat of Seattle, but either way, Hamlin did perform well in his first season for the Boys. One thing to bring up, Hamlin lasted really long in the Free Agency Market last year. Was that because of his injury, wasn't it a scull fracture or something, or what was the deal with him lasting so long? This time last year I was hoping half-heartedly the Eagles would make an attempt to pick him up.

ya somethin really serious with his head or neck... but even you can admit dawkins is gettin a little old, maybe his body just wont hold up like it once did but your right about the stats not being the full story bob sanders for example has good stats but his game changing ability is amazing so yeah i agree with you there

eaglesalltheway
05-15-2008, 06:41 AM
ya somethin really serious with his head or neck... but even you can admit dawkins is gettin a little old, maybe his body just wont hold up like it once did but your right about the stats not being the full story bob sanders for example has good stats but his game changing ability is amazing so yeah i agree with you there

Dawkins has lost a step or two, no doubt at all, but he was three or four steps ahead of the rest of those guys before he lost his step. You can't predict how a body will hold up. Dawkins is known for taking real good care of himself, and is really healthy, and despite his age, is probably in better physical shape than half of the league, if not more.

eaglesalltheway
05-15-2008, 06:43 AM
The problem is as such: Barber, Canty, Hamlin, Newman, and TO are all due for new deals this year.

Of those guys, who is going to re-sign?

Jughead10
05-15-2008, 07:22 AM
I still think Sam Madison starts for the Giants. At least the first half of the year. The guy still has a little left in the tank. He is still a solid starter in the league.

Also I'm not sure how the Giants safeties are going to look. I wouldn't assume James Butler is a starter. He was an RFA and was given a one year tender, so this could very well be his last season as a Giant. I'm not even sure if they will play Phillips at FS or SS although they are basically interchangeable in our system. If I had to guess right now I'd say Sammy Knight and James Butler start the season. But Phillips will be in there sooner than later and Michael Johnson looked good last year when given opportunities.

I don't think anyone's position as a starter is relatively safe on defense. Giants have done a good job retooling through the draft and there at a point now where some rookies or second year players are probably just as good as the guys who have been starting there for a few years.

eaglesalltheway
05-15-2008, 07:41 AM
I woudl like to see Phillips play some this year. The Eagles Safety spots are also more fluid than most schemes, that is one thing that Steve Spagnolo got from Jim Johnson. The SS and FS are a little more contrasting in the Eagles scheme, but I think it is a concept that Spags liked and built upon it.

Jughead10
05-15-2008, 07:59 AM
Phillips will play this year. He might start the season, but if not he will be in there shortly after.

Or Moyal
05-15-2008, 08:28 AM
Barber, Canty, Hamlin, Newman, and TO are all due for new deals this year.
Of those guys, who is going to re-sign?

It's way too early to say. If I had to make a prediction, though, I'd say TO gets a new deal sometime this offseason, TNew gets franchised, Hamlin gets a contract this offseason for something like 4y/22 mil, and Barber gets paid Michael Turner money by some other franchise.

Or Moyal
05-15-2008, 08:29 AM
Canty will probably be back as well, if only because he isn't quite as recognized acros the league yet.

eaglesalltheway
05-15-2008, 12:24 PM
Do you think the Boys are trying to re-sign Barber? To be honest, he would be my #1 priority, followed by Hamlin and Newman. The others, I would have to see how negotiations go, but TO would also be high up there if I were the Boys.

Or Moyal
05-15-2008, 05:20 PM
TO is back, no question. Our receiving corps without him is totally shot; the guy plays NOTHING like his age and should be good for a couple of more years without difficulty.
Barber is my favorite player in the NFL; believe me, the entire Cowboys community would like nothing more than to bring him back. But I get the feeling that Felix and Choice make him expendable if he wants to be paid 7 mil a year. You don't pay a part-time back that, sentimentality and true love aside. You can't afford to in this day and age.

eaglesfan_45
05-15-2008, 05:29 PM
Barber probably won't be back in Dallas, he thinks he is worth top money and Dallas can't pay everyone. With the drafting of Jones and Choice the Cowboys can afford to let him go, but they would love to have him back.

Canty will be back in the Big D.

Hamlin will go back, but someone will have to be cut to make room for Hamlin's salary if he makes it to the Pro-Bowl again. (Maybe Roy Williams)

Newman is most likely back to the 'boys but I wouldn't be suprised if he isn't. If Jenkins, Scandrick, Pac-Man and Henry play well he is expendable. Dallas loves this guy though.

TO will stay, Jerry Jones loves him and TO loves the Cowboys.

That is what my opinion as an Eagles fan is.

LonghornsLegend
05-15-2008, 07:50 PM
Barber is not going anywhere, this reminds me of when we didn't sign Romo before the season and everyone kept thinking maybe we let him get away, these deals don't have to be done asap, its better that way but they don't always work out that way...He is going to be signed point blank, I don't see any scenario with him not coming back for the long term...I think T New is the guy who doesn't get a huge contract out the bunch, if we can get a best case scenarios from our corners we would be fine, and I expect him to be tagged next year.


Hamlin and Barber are priority guys, just seems like people want Barber to go elsewhere, before people swore he was being traded away, now were not going to sign him, its always something..Jerry has every intention of signing him, just because they don't get worked out immediately doesn't mean much in this day and age.

TheGreatEscape
05-15-2008, 09:48 PM
Barber is not going anywhere, this reminds me of when we didn't sign Romo before the season and everyone kept thinking maybe we let him get away, these deals don't have to be done asap, its better that way but they don't always work out that way...He is going to be signed point blank, I don't see any scenario with him not coming back for the long term.
Except Romo plays QB and Barber RB. With an oline like that the boys don't need a great RB in there. If Choice and Jones play well I don't see a reason for dallas to spend too much cap room on a RB.

eaglesalltheway
05-16-2008, 06:30 AM
Except Romo plays QB and Barber RB. With an oline like that the boys don't need a great RB in there. If Choice and Jones play well I don't see a reason for dallas to spend too much cap room on a RB.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I highly doubt you are in a position to make theses sort of decisions for the Cowboys. We all know Jerry Jones doesn't exactly do what everyone expects, so he very wello may take up that type of cap room.

OSUGiants17
05-16-2008, 07:12 AM
1) Eagles
2) Cowboys (Even though both safeties should not have been in the PB and RW should not even start on an NFL team)
3) Redskins
4) Giants

those are my rankings too.

eaglesfan_45
05-25-2008, 03:43 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=mosley_matt&id=3410945

intresting story on Roy Williams

LonghornsLegend
05-25-2008, 05:02 PM
Told you guys to stop overreacting about Barber...It would be plain stupid to let him go and start two rookies on a team who wants to go to the super bowl...Yes we could of saved money, but were not trying to rebuild so we don't need the cap space that bad, as I was saying just like the Romo situation, people always assume guys are gonna walk if they don't sign immediately.

eaglesalltheway
05-27-2008, 07:12 AM
Don't take this the wrong way, but I highly doubt you are in a position to make theses sort of decisions for the Cowboys. We all know Jerry Jones doesn't exactly do what everyone expects, so he very wello may take up that type of cap room.

I think I am psychic:D!!!

LonghornsLegend
05-27-2008, 01:11 PM
Actually that move was something people should expect from Jerry, he always pays his guy that were drafted and turn out to be studs, and never lets them walk...Only people who might have been surprised are people from the outside, or eaglesfan45.


I never understood the people that think we should be relying on two rookies at RB even though we are trying to make the super bowl, yea that makes alot of sense...Lets just be cheap and save the cap room so we can put all our eggs in the rookie basket, just never made sense.

eaglesalltheway
05-28-2008, 06:33 AM
I don't understand that line of thinking either. Here is how I see it, which is probably also how you see it. If you already know what you have is great, why just blow that opportunity for continued greatness to take a chance that one or two of those replacements COULD be great. Big risk there, which is one of the many reasons I value experience immensely. Another thing is, even IF one of those replacements turns into something great, you will either have to pay them the big bucks or let them go anyway, so the way I see it, yo should just go with what you know is great and quit taking chance on somethink that might be great. By the way, eaglesfan 45 isn't someone that is as knowledgeable as he thinks he is.

LonghornsLegend
05-29-2008, 07:20 AM
I don't understand that line of thinking either. Here is how I see it, which is probably also how you see it. If you already know what you have is great, why just blow that opportunity for continued greatness to take a chance that one or two of those replacements COULD be great. Big risk there, which is one of the many reasons I value experience immensely. Another thing is, even IF one of those replacements turns into something great, you will either have to pay them the big bucks or let them go anyway, so the way I see it, yo should just go with what you know is great and quit taking chance on somethink that might be great. By the way, eaglesfan 45 isn't someone that is as knowledgeable as he thinks he is.


Your correct in that line of thinking, if we were in the situation we were awhile back and picking in the top 10 we would of let Barber walk more then likely, as of now it just wouldn't of made sense in the situation we are in...I never expected him to leave, I just hope Felix is good for a solid 10 carries a game the better he is between the tackles the more he can play...And whether its argued on if he is an all game back, I can't complain about having him fresh for the 4th quarter...But even those earlier rumors for McFadden I felt were bogus for the same reasons, you don't put the fate of your offense in a rookies hand unless you have to, and we would of had a stable full of rookies if we let Barber go.

eaglesalltheway
05-29-2008, 07:38 AM
Your correct in that line of thinking, if we were in the situation we were awhile back and picking in the top 10 we would of let Barber walk more then likely, as of now it just wouldn't of made sense in the situation we are in...I never expected him to leave, I just hope Felix is good for a solid 10 carries a game the better he is between the tackles the more he can play...And whether its argued on if he is an all game back, I can't complain about having him fresh for the 4th quarter...But even those earlier rumors for McFadden I felt were bogus for the same reasons, you don't put the fate of your offense in a rookies hand unless you have to, and we would of had a stable full of rookies if we let Barber go.

I never really bought into those rumors either, I just thought that it was someone in the media had an idea about, and thought that the connection woudl be there, so it makes a good story.

Byrd430
06-08-2008, 12:41 AM
The funny thing is that you are almost as bad as him. How anyone has Roy Williams ranked the 4th best safety in the division or even considers him a starter in the NFL is beyond me, it makes me question how much you know about football. And just like Amerker you refer to Reed Doughty as " Rees Doughty" so that makes me wonder if you even know who he really is and whether or not your comments are valid.

Damn, I'm glad the Zorn hiring hasn't affected your sense of humor...

If Lito stays, I actually think the Eagles have the best secondary. On paper, I like the Cowboys best, but their performance overall as a unit is still questionable, particularly due to the fact that Roy gave up the deep passes.

But Roy Williams is not a bad safety, and I can easily see why he starts. He's bad in coverage and I don't think he was a Pro Bowl caliber player, but nonetheless, still a starter for a reason.