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eaglesfan_45
05-11-2008, 03:31 PM
Who has the best defense in the NFC East?

Burns336
05-12-2008, 02:50 AM
I voted for the SB champs... I don't see how you could go otherwise. Any team that can apply that kind of pressure, has to be considered the best.

To judge based on offseason acquisitions would be wrong because you never know what might happen.

Pacman might not be reinstated, Samuel could struggle in a new system... It's too early to factor those things into a poll IMO.

eaglesalltheway
05-12-2008, 06:53 AM
I voted for the SB champs... I don't see how you could go otherwise. Any team that can apply that kind of pressure, has to be considered the best.

To judge based on offseason acquisitions would be wrong because you never know what might happen.

Pacman might not be reinstated, Samuel could struggle in a new system... It's too early to factor those things into a poll IMO.

And the Giants have at least two new starters on their defense who will have to adjust to their system. I see your side of the argument, but you have to have more to add to your point than commenting on other teams' players making your team better. I voted for Dallas (I think I'm a traitor :) ), but the Eagles WILL have the best defense in the next two or three years out of the NFC East. Dallas does have nice young talent, but also have a lot of question marks behind some of their older players on D who will be leaving shortly. The Eagles are young at every position except for FS, where Dawkins is. As of right now, it is unclear who will be his replacement, or even if his replacement is on this team, but that is the only question for the sefense in a three year window. Our D-line is young and talented, but most importantly, balanced. Trent Cole is a Pro-Bowler, and a major problem to deal with. Patterson is a DT who should have been in the Pro Bowl last year. Good Sack numbers, but what is best of all, was a leader all year in tackles for a DT, throughout the whole NFL. Bunkley is the type of DT whose impact isn't shown on the stat sheets, but makes everyone else better. He has improved since his arrival almost every week, and is someone who may also garner some Pro-Bowls through his career. Abiamiri is last years second round pick who is a balanced DE, and is also someone who will free up space for the LBs behind him. Clemons will be a sack specialist for us at DE, and will be a terror to deal with, and the rest of the rotation at D-line will be tough to deal with as well. Sleeper to watch out for is Bryan Smith, our rookie. He is far from polished, but has so much to give in the pass rush. Our LBs are also young, none of which have been in the league for three years yet. Gaither is an above average WILL, watch for him to be an impact LB for the Eagles. Gocong is developing well at SAM, and is poised for a great few seasons. Stewart Bradley is the GEM at MIKE for us. I tend to try not to be too brash, but Bradley will be mentioned in the same air as Brian Urlacher when his career is over, though they are completely different players. Watch out for this kid, he will be dangerous. Our CBs are the b est in the NFC, and maybe even the whole NFL, though Sheppard may not be around much longer. We have Dawk for at least a little while yet, and Considine will come back from his injury and be a solid SS for the Eagles. Watch out for this defense, lots of talent, speed, strength, and youth.

If I had to rank them though, it would be
Dallas
Philadelphia
New York
Washington

NY+Giants=NYG
05-13-2008, 10:12 AM
I am going to go with us..

NYG.

Until proven otherwise, we stopped the best team on offense, so I think people may agree that we have to be the best or damn near the best in our division.

TheGreatEscape
05-13-2008, 12:47 PM
Call me a homer but last season we played with 10 men, James Butler should be shot, without our 4th ace and our pass rush still won us a superbowl. Put a more adjusted Kiwi back into the mix and upgrades at both safety positions and things are looking very good in giant land. We had young guys step up in the secondary, ross, webster, johnson, and now they know what they have to do to be good.

BaLLiN
05-13-2008, 03:33 PM
Best DL- Giants
Best LB Corp - Dallas/Was (more Dallas)
Best CB- Philly/Dallas
Best Safeties-
1. Philly/Giants/Dallas
4. Was

games are won in the trenches

eaglesalltheway
05-13-2008, 03:40 PM
Just a question here. I've heard a lot of things surrounding Michael Strahan, saying he is going to retire. Is there any possibility that he is considering retirement, or is he just doing this again so he doesn't have to go through all the off-season stuff?

BaLLiN
05-13-2008, 03:45 PM
i think hes definitely considering retirement, when you win a superbowl that late in your career you got what you wanted and hes for sure a HOF. But i think he may also be doing it to skip some off-season stuff IF he decides to come back. Its really a toss up whether he's coming back. I thought i heard him for sure saying that he was coming back next year right after the superbowl... but we'll see

amerker
05-13-2008, 10:16 PM
depends on haow you build your d some people say cb is the most important defensive position which makes you think dallas butmany people say that you start at the d-line(Giants) i gotta go giants that is a freakin scary d-line and above average secondary they are scary good

TheGreatEscape
05-13-2008, 11:20 PM
Strahan will play if it doesn't take him too long to stop feeling beaten up from the season. Him and King Osi are really tight and he's still having fun running with the kids out there.

Burns336
05-14-2008, 03:30 AM
And the Giants have at least two new starters on their defense who will have to adjust to their system. I see your side of the argument, but you have to have more to add to your point than commenting on other teams' players making your team better. I voted for Dallas (I think I'm a traitor :) ), but the Eagles WILL have the best defense in the next two or three years out of the NFC East. Dallas does have nice young talent, but also have a lot of question marks behind some of their older players on D who will be leaving shortly. The Eagles are young at every position except for FS, where Dawkins is. As of right now, it is unclear who will be his replacement, or even if his replacement is on this team, but that is the only question for the sefense in a three year window. Our D-line is young and talented, but most importantly, balanced. Trent Cole is a Pro-Bowler, and a major problem to deal with. Patterson is a DT who should have been in the Pro Bowl last year. Good Sack numbers, but what is best of all, was a leader all year in tackles for a DT, throughout the whole NFL. Bunkley is the type of DT whose impact isn't shown on the stat sheets, but makes everyone else better. He has improved since his arrival almost every week, and is someone who may also garner some Pro-Bowls through his career. Abiamiri is last years second round pick who is a balanced DE, and is also someone who will free up space for the LBs behind him. Clemons will be a sack specialist for us at DE, and will be a terror to deal with, and the rest of the rotation at D-line will be tough to deal with as well. Sleeper to watch out for is Bryan Smith, our rookie. He is far from polished, but has so much to give in the pass rush. Our LBs are also young, none of which have been in the league for three years yet. Gaither is an above average WILL, watch for him to be an impact LB for the Eagles. Gocong is developing well at SAM, and is poised for a great few seasons. Stewart Bradley is the GEM at MIKE for us. I tend to try not to be too brash, but Bradley will be mentioned in the same air as Brian Urlacher when his career is over, though they are completely different players. Watch out for this kid, he will be dangerous. Our CBs are the b est in the NFC, and maybe even the whole NFL, though Sheppard may not be around much longer. We have Dawk for at least a little while yet, and Considine will come back from his injury and be a solid SS for the Eagles. Watch out for this defense, lots of talent, speed, strength, and youth.

If I had to rank them though, it would be
Dallas
Philadelphia
New York
Washington

Um, I'm actually a Dallas fan and Giant hater so I wasn't just trying to add to "my team"

Giants have to be considered the best hands down because they have the most dominate D-line in the league. It's not like they lost anyone special. Gibril Wilson? who cares? They got Kenny Phillips. Guys like Aaron Ross have a full season under their belt now. They are still best in the division until proven otherwise.

eaglesalltheway
05-14-2008, 07:04 AM
Um, I'm actually a Dallas fan and Giant hater so I wasn't just trying to add to "my team"

Giants have to be considered the best hands down because they have the most dominate D-line in the league. It's not like they lost anyone special. Gibril Wilson? who cares? They got Kenny Phillips. Guys like Aaron Ross have a full season under their belt now. They are still best in the division until proven otherwise.

Kenny Phillips is unproven, though I think he will be a more than good Safety for the Giants. But any argument saying the Giants are better off with him than Wilson has a lot to be decided yet. I THINK Phillips will be a great player, but we jsut don't know yet. There is a lot that needs to happen before we can say that Phillips will be able to replace Wilson, no questions asked.

eaglesalltheway
05-14-2008, 07:06 AM
Strahan will play if it doesn't take him too long to stop feeling beaten up from the season. Him and King Osi are really tight and he's still having fun running with the kids out there.

I really like Strahan, though he has been known to ruin the Eagles, but I like who he is and how he carries himself. i always like it when there is a guy like Strahan that close to a guy that much younger than him. I will miss him whenever he retires, but in other aspects I will not miss him at all.:)

NY+Giants=NYG
05-14-2008, 11:15 AM
Kenny Phillips is unproven, though I think he will be a more than good Safety for the Giants. But any argument saying the Giants are better off with him than Wilson has a lot to be decided yet. I THINK Phillips will be a great player, but we jsut don't know yet. There is a lot that needs to happen before we can say that Phillips will be able to replace Wilson, no questions asked.

That's why we signed Sammy Knight. He has lost a step, but he is a very smart safety and always puts himself in the right position to make a play. He is a coach on the field, and will bring alot to table as a veteran presence to the saftey corps. So we have Sammy Knight, James Butler, Michael Johnson, and Kenny Phillips. I am more than satisfied with that.

Now to mention our system is different, because we sometimes put 3 safties on the field, and move people around in our scheme like a HS team would. Best 11 plays, so if that means 3 safties for a whole series so be it. In the superbowl we had 3 safties on the field. Johnson, Butler and Wilson. So our scheme is alot different than a normal pro team.

eaglesalltheway
05-14-2008, 12:13 PM
I had noticed there were occasions where there were three safeties during a few games, and I like the idea having the best team on the field as possible. Its unorthodoxed, but I think it should be done more often, as long as it benefits the team.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-14-2008, 12:44 PM
I had noticed there were occasions where there were three safeties during a few games, and I like the idea having the best team on the field as possible. Its unorthodoxed, but I think it should be done more often, as long as it benefits the team.

That's why our system is hard to compare with other teams. I guess one can use the overall defense stat, but if someone wanted to compare units vs other team's units, ie safety vs safety, it makes no sense with our team.

Most teams would have FS and SS, but we can have FS, FS, and SS on the field, or vice versa. I remember during the superbowl Aaron Ross, our CB, was playing centerfield as a FS, while our other safties were in the box.

We have a very basic, best 11 plays, type defense, so comparing our positions to others makes no sense, because for us anyone can play anywhere. If other divisional teams notice, we are drafting versatile players on defense. Guys who can play all 3 LB spots, or play special teams. We have Gerris Wilkerson, and 2 rookie LBs, and Zak DeOssie. Kiwi is a SAM LB, but was a DE. And I would bet any of our CBs can play safety as well for couple plays if need be.

Not only is that effective but it confuses the hell out of offenses, when a position player, is out of position doing something else.

Geo
05-14-2008, 01:05 PM
If the Cowboys could shore up their spotty secondary, they would have the best defense in the division and maybe even the league. I'm much more worried about Dallas than any other team in the NFC, they're the one team that matches up very well against the Colts.

Thankfully they have some expiring contracts and tough decisions to make after 08.

D-Unit
05-14-2008, 04:07 PM
Depends if Strahan comes back or not. If he does, then NY gets the edge. If not, I'd vote for Dallas.

neko4
05-14-2008, 04:33 PM
I voted Washington. Probably not true, but that defense carried them for the longest time.
They have a great LB core, and if Rodgers was healthy would have a good set of CB's. I also think Reed Doughty, will probably never be Sean Taylor, but will be an above average starter. He has some big shoes to fill, but looked better as the year went on. Laron Landry could be close to the next Taylor though. Dline needs some big improvement though, and NY basically won the Super Bowl because of their Dline.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-14-2008, 04:46 PM
Depends if Strahan comes back or not. If he does, then NY gets the edge. If not, I'd vote for Dallas.

If he comes back, then we keep our D the same, if not, We move Kiwi to DE or move Justin Tuck over. Either way we re-load. Obviously it's hard to replace a hall of famer, but I think we will manage, DEs is a very deep spot for us.

LonghornsLegend
05-14-2008, 05:15 PM
If the Giants can keep up how they finished the season I vote them, but let's not act like that D line dominated games all year, we started the season in a shootout that was nothing but scoring all over the place, and there were other games that played out the same way...We still have Roy Williams thus I have to vote for the Giants, but it could easily shift back to Dallas if we have Pacman because thats the wildcard...You give us Newman and Pacman locking the top two WR's in man to man, and I like our chances, our run D is usually top 5, and the added corners should help our only problem.


Of course its almost a guessing game as of now, defenses don't always play the same year to year, and while some draft picks and aquisitions will work, some won't.


I really like the Eagles scheme though, if I can see them play consistently I could easily see them #1 also.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-14-2008, 05:22 PM
If the Giants can keep up how they finished the season I vote them, but let's not act like that D line dominated games all year, we started the season in a shootout that was nothing but scoring all over the place, and there were other games that played out the same way...We still have Roy Williams thus I have to vote for the Giants, but it could easily shift back to Dallas if we have Pacman because thats the wildcard...You give us Newman and Pacman locking the top two WR's in man to man, and I like our chances, our run D is usually top 5, and the added corners should help our only problem.


Of course its almost a guessing game as of now, defenses don't always play the same year to year, and while some draft picks and aquisitions will work, some won't.


I really like the Eagles scheme though, if I can see them play consistently I could easily see them #1 also.

You forget that we have had a new system and that was game 1 of this new system. Not to mention everyone was getting used to their new roles. Tuck was getting used to DE, Strahan didn't go to camp so was not fit to play all game, and Osi got hurt.. We were a big mess that game and the GB game. Now one had no clue what they were doing, and needed 2 games to adjust.

Not only that for once, we have both coordinators back, and now there is stability among our staff. With that, Spags got to finally add more pieces to his defense via this draft, which includes 1 safety, 1 CB, 2 LBs and 1 DE. Add Clark and Sammy knight from free agency, and now this defense will only get better with our DC here. I don't expect a dropoff.

Problem was we had no coaching stability. The two idiots that were our coordinators, that came with Coughlin got fired. Hufanagel fired during the season, and now he is in the CFL, and the other idiot, Tim Lewis is the secondary coach for the Panthers. That alone made all the difference, getting rid of two coordinators who I hated more than anything.

eaglesfan_45
05-14-2008, 05:26 PM
all of the teams could be #1 but each of them have their faults-

Cowboys- not a great pass defense because the Safties aren't great in coverage, their D-line is largely average. IMO.
Giants- their pass defense is not as good as it may look, if Osi goes down you'll be able to see that. Their Linebackers were picked over in FA.
Redskins- Landry is a top young safety, but other than that they are older than most and the D-line is average w/ Andre Carter being the only playmaker.
Eagles- Alot of potetnial, with alot of potential to fail as well. The Linebackers are young and inexperienced, as is the D-line and the SS spot is open to anyone.

703SKINS202
05-14-2008, 05:59 PM
Going off of 2007 I had to go with the Giants becuase their D although not the most talented got it done. Respectively however, last year in total defense in the entire NFL this is how the division ranked:

7. New York Giants
8. Washington Redskins
9. Philidelphia Eagles
10. Dallas Cowboys

And just to let you know how close that really was the difference between the Cowboys and Giants was 2.6 ypg. Pretty much we have a crazy talented division with strong D's.

TheGreatEscape
05-14-2008, 06:30 PM
If the Giants can keep up how they finished the season I vote them, but let's not act like that D line dominated games all year, we started the season in a shootout that was nothing but scoring all over the place, and there were other games that played out the same way...We still have Roy Williams thus I have to vote for the Giants, but it could easily shift back to Dallas if we have Pacman because thats the wildcard...You give us Newman and Pacman locking the top two WR's in man to man, and I like our chances, our run D is usually top 5, and the added corners should help our only problem.

We had a first time DC installing a new unorthidoxed system, a young secondary and our leader was still playing himself into shape. The fact we did as well as we did early is a testament to AP and Osi.

BaLLiN
05-14-2008, 06:42 PM
If strahan comes back, no question its the giants. Sure we lost Gibril wilson and Kawika Mitchell, but Mitchell was by no means a WLB in our system and we had a backup starting in Kiwanuka's place also we had James Butler starting. James Butler alone being on the field is a huge problem.

We went out and got a solid veteran, picked up a safety in Phillips who is probably just as good if not better than Gibril Wilson now. We also picked up a great CB for our system in Terrell Thomas, Danny Clark who could play any LB position for us if we have an injury to a starter, and both our rookie LBs are apparently looking really good.

Our DL was probably the best in the league, so fixing our DBs and solidifying LB corps will really benefit eachother.

Another thing to consider is that Ross is now acclimated to playing in the NFL, Webster is back in his college scheme and was probably taking time to adapt to it and finally blossomed at the end of the season, Madison is great. So the corner position is much better than the start of last season

eaglesalltheway
05-15-2008, 06:37 AM
Going off of 2007 I had to go with the Giants becuase their D although not the most talented got it done. Respectively however, last year in total defense in the entire NFL this is how the division ranked:

7. New York Giants
8. Washington Redskins
9. Philidelphia Eagles
10. Dallas Cowboys

And just to let you know how close that really was the difference between the Cowboys and Giants was 2.6 ypg. Pretty much we have a crazy talented division with strong D's.

WOW, I knew it was close, but holy crap.

Number 10
05-15-2008, 11:24 AM
Eli Manning this and Eli Manning that.

The Giants defense was the reason we won the Super Bowl. They came up with outstanding performances late in games all year and it continued through the playoffs.

Dallas is close behind but I don't like their front seven as much as NY and that's where it counts the most.

Geo
05-15-2008, 11:24 AM
Give me a break, that's based on yardage. You want to look at the effectiveness of a defense, check out scoring defense.

9. Philadelphia Eagles 18.8 ppg
11. Washington Redskins 19.4 ppg
13. Dallas Cowboys 20.3 ppg
17. New York Giants 21.9 ppg

NY+Giants=NYG
05-15-2008, 11:57 AM
Give me a break, that's based on yardage. You want to look at the effectiveness of a defense, check out scoring defense.

9. Philadelphia Eagles 18.8 ppg
11. Washington Redskins 19.4 ppg
13. Dallas Cowboys 20.3 ppg
17. New York Giants 21.9 ppg

I wonder how much getting bent over the first two games caused that avg to skew for us. Obviously the Vikings game was horrible, but that was because 3 ints were returned for a TD. But the first two games were on the defense for not knowing the system. I wonder how much the first two games impact that number.

We shall see now this year because the D knows the system, the DC is back and we have more groceries for this system, hence the defensive draft we had with 1 safety, 2 LBs, 1 DE, and 1 CB.

The Legend
05-15-2008, 12:07 PM
DL - Giants
LB - Skins
CB - Eagles
S - Boys

who i think is going to have a better defensive year im going the th Cowboys
but right now you give it to the Giants untill proven wrong

eaglesalltheway
05-15-2008, 12:28 PM
Give me a break, that's based on yardage. You want to look at the effectiveness of a defense, check out scoring defense.

9. Philadelphia Eagles 18.8 ppg
11. Washington Redskins 19.4 ppg
13. Dallas Cowboys 20.3 ppg
17. New York Giants 21.9 ppg

That is also a little misleading as well. Like it was said before, turnovers for touchdowns and Special teams scores tend to botch those #s a tad. What would be more telling is the ppg allowed by just the defense. Nice that the Eagles are leading there though.:)