PDA

View Full Version : Andy Reid Believes He Has a SB Caliber Team


bigbluedefense
05-12-2008, 01:19 PM
Do you believe him?

I do. I think the Eagles quietly had one of the best offseasons in the league, and may very well win the NFC East this year.

Let's look at what went wrong last year, and what will change this year:

1. A healthy Donovan McNabb. He was not ready until half way through the season last year. Thats when they finally started clicking. This year he'll be back and even if he does go down, you have Kevin Kolb in his 2nd year backing him up. Theyll be fine if he misses a couple of games. Better off than last year, thats for sure.

2. A healthy LJ Smith. Their best "WR" was injured all of last year. Even then, their offense that "lacks playmakers" was the 6th ranked offense in the league last year. They couldn't punch it in the endzone however. Why? Mainly bc McNabb wasn't himself, and LJ was hurt. No big body threat in the redzone.

3. The WR Corps. Should be better this year. They added Jackson, and even if he's a non factor, Curtis should be much more adjusted to this new offense by now. You saw him grow during the year as he got adjusted to the WCO, he should be very comfortable in it by now.

4. A healthy, younger defense. First and foremost, I think its dumb for them to trade Lito. Why? In today's game, having 3 solid CBs is critical, they have that luxury. And they can always move Brown to Safety. On top of having a solid CB trio, they now have a younger dline. Abriamiri is an upgrade over Kearse, Cole will do his thing, and Laws will at the very least, bring heat as a situational pass rusher. Plus Cleo adds another underrated situational pass rusher to the line.

Plus Stewart Bradley brings more presence at the MIKE position and Gaither can now play WILL. They have a GOOD defense. Very good defense.

You factor in all of that, I expect a top 10 defense in the NFL easy, plus an offense that should be back to its 06 form, when it was top 2 in the league.

Don't sleep on the Eagles.

EDIT: Im not necessarily saying that the offense will be top 2 in the league, moreso that it will be very good next year despite the lack of "playmakers" on it.

bsaza2358
05-12-2008, 01:28 PM
I hate this idea of the Eagles being a dark horse team. They still have age and depth issues on the OLine. This particular team hasn't shown an ability to finish off opponents, and the NFC East is still tough. The Giants will be just as good, Dallas could be better, and the Redskins are an unkown. You could order the East any way possible, and it wouldn't surprise me...

Crickett
05-12-2008, 01:28 PM
Let's look at what went wrong last year, and what will change this year:

1. A healthy Donovan McNabb. He was not ready until half way through the season last year. Thats when they finally started clicking. This year he'll be back and even if he does go down, you have Kevin Kolb in his 2nd year backing him up. Theyll be fine if he misses a couple of games. Better off than last year, thats for sure.

2. A healthy LJ Smith. Their best "WR" was injured all of last year. Even then, their offense that "lacks playmakers" was the 6th ranked offense in the league last year. They couldn't punch it in the endzone however. Why? Mainly bc McNabb wasn't himself, and LJ was hurt. No big body threat in the redzone.

3. The WR Corps. Should be better this year. They added Jackson, and even if he's a non factor, Curtis should be much more adjusted to this new offense by now. You saw him grow during the year as he got adjusted to the WCO, he should be very comfortable in it by now.

4. A healthy, younger defense. First and foremost, I think its dumb for them to trade Lito. Why? In today's game, having 3 solid CBs is critical, they have that luxury. And they can always move Brown to Safety. On top of having a solid CB trio, they now have a younger dline. Abriamiri is an upgrade over Kearse, Cole will do his thing, and Laws will at the very least, bring heat as a situational pass rusher. Plus Cleo adds another underrated situational pass rusher to the line.

Plus Stewart Bradley brings more presence at the MIKE position and Gaither can now play WILL. They have a GOOD defense. Very good defense.

You factor in all of that, I expect a top 10 defense in the NFL easy, plus an offense that should be back to its 06 form, when it was top 2 in the league.

Don't sleep on the Eagles.

Is it really fair to say in a league where injuries are so common that a team had a great offseason because they got healthy?

bigbluedefense
05-12-2008, 01:30 PM
I hate this idea of the Eagles being a dark horse team. They still have age and depth issues on the OLine. This particular team hasn't shown an ability to finish off opponents, and the NFC East is still tough. The Giants will be just as good, Dallas could be better, and the Redskins are an unkown. You could order the East any way possible, and it wouldn't surprise me...

thats also very true, but think about it, for all the issues you guys had last year, you still went 8-8 in the most competitive division in football. thats a heck of an accomplishment.

the oline did take a step back last year. but i think Justice should step in if need be and add some youth to it. It won't be that bad. McNabb held onto that ball longer than usual too, let's not forget that.

What im mainly trying to say is, it would not surprise me at all if the Eagles win the East or make some noise in the playoffs next year. Everyone talks about Dallas, and then the Giants, but I look at the Eagles and think that they can hang with us if not beat us. The Eagles are a very talented team this year imo.

Sniper
05-12-2008, 01:34 PM
4. A healthy, younger defense. First and foremost, I think its dumb for them to trade Lito. Why? In today's game, having 3 solid CBs is critical, they have that luxury. And they can always move Brown to Safety. On top of having a solid CB trio, they now have a younger dline. Abriamiri is an upgrade over Kearse, Cole will do his thing, and Laws will at the very least, bring heat as a situational pass rusher. Plus Cleo adds another underrated situational pass rusher to the line.

Plus Stewart Bradley brings more presence at the MIKE position and Gaither can now play WILL. They have a GOOD defense. Very good defense.

You factor in all of that, I expect a top 10 defense in the NFL easy, plus an offense that should be back to its 06 form, when it was top 2 in the league.

Don't sleep on the Eagles.

EDIT: Im not necessarily saying that the offense will be top 2 in the league, moreso that it will be very good next year despite the lack of "playmakers" on it.

We already had a good defense, but I think Clemons and Samuel could make it a great defense. There's an awful lot of ifs with the Eagles though. Mainly with McNabb.

Booker intrigues me for our offense. Our team could be almost SEC fast with Curtis/Jackson/Brown/Booker/Westbrook.

Flyboy
05-12-2008, 01:34 PM
I think they can surprise some people, but LJ Smith is extremely overrated to me.

bigbluedefense
05-12-2008, 01:35 PM
i forgot about Booker. Reid will split him out wide often.

bigbluedefense
05-12-2008, 01:39 PM
Is it really fair to say in a league where injuries are so common that a team had a great offseason because they got healthy?

im not saying that. they had a great offseason bc they made some great moves in FA along with the draft.

But injuries were a big reason why they didn't perform up to standard last year. Factor in a better roster with what should be a healthy team, and I see a different outcome this year.

LonghornsLegend
05-12-2008, 01:40 PM
Our team could be almost SEC fast with Curtis/Jackson/Brown/Booker/Westbrook.

SEC SPEED!!!!!!11!!11


But I agree with I wouldn't be surprised to see the NFC east ranked any way...The team who stays the healthiest all year and sustains the least amount of injuries will finish 1st, I'd be willing to bet it ends up like that.

Sniper
05-12-2008, 01:43 PM
I think they can surprise some people, but LJ Smith is extremely overrated to me.

LJ Smith is terrible. A backup TE at best.

bigbluedefense
05-12-2008, 01:51 PM
SEC SPEED!!!!!!11!!11


But I agree with I wouldn't be surprised to see the NFC east ranked any way...The team who stays the healthiest all year and sustains the least amount of injuries will finish 1st, I'd be willing to bet it ends up like that.

i definitely agree with that. the talent levels are so even, it will basically come down to health.

TheGreatEscape
05-12-2008, 01:51 PM
This why having a drug dealer for a son is awesome, Andy gets the best ish in Philly!

The Eagles look good but that oline will get McNabb hit and hurt again, meaning the passing game will sputter as Kolb adjusts or McNabb continues holding the ball to long. They have skill but I don't think McNabb will hold up wellwhen teams with good passrushes sic the dogs on him.

bigbluedefense
05-12-2008, 01:51 PM
LJ Smith isn't that bad. Overrated? Depends, id probably say yes, but he doesn't suck at all.

Sniper
05-12-2008, 01:54 PM
LJ Smith isn't that bad. Overrated? Depends, id probably say yes, but he doesn't suck at all.

Drops, drops, more drops and horrendous blocking makes him subpar in my book.

Shane P. Hallam
05-12-2008, 01:55 PM
If it wasn't for the division, no doubt. I like the Eagles a lot every year. Westbrook is pretty beastly, there defense should be improved.

Go_Eagles77
05-12-2008, 01:58 PM
This why having a drug dealer for a son is awesome, Andy gets the best ish in Philly!

I'm just about to make a post about why I love this site and how respectable the fans are to teams even in their own division, then you have to make a post like this.

Honestly I could see the east going to any team this year, it's a pretty good bet that 3 teams will make the playoffs again this year, the only question is who will be the odd team out. Injuries will play a huge factor liked previously mentioned, for example if Brian Westbrook goes down, we're screwed.

Number 10
05-12-2008, 01:58 PM
This is why the NFC East is hands down the best division in football. 3 of the 4 teams are legit Super Bowl contenders and the Redskins will be a tough out for anybody, they were a playoff team last year after all.

Eagles, Giants, Cowboys could all realistically finish with 12-13 wins and own homefield advantage in the playoffs.

bsaza2358
05-12-2008, 02:16 PM
I think 2 teams will get 11 wins, and there will be a tiebreaker for the division title. Almost a lock that 2 teams get in from the East in 2008-2009, with 3 teams a legit possibility. I don't see the West as good enough to send 2 teams, the South is always a crapshoot, and who knows about the Bears, Vikings, and Packers?

As for the Eagles, I'm cautiously optimistic. I see the defense really attacking other teams and bringing a lot of pressure. Couple the pressure with a very good CB group, a healthy Dawkins, and an underrated Quentin Mikell at SS, and the D could be outright beastly. Offensively, I'm worried about the old OT's, but the interior line play should remain solid. McNabb, Westbrook, Smith, Booker, Curtis, DeSean, and Reggie Brown make a solid group, plus Celek, Avant, and Baskett for depth. It looks good on paper, but paper hasn't won a game ever.

Flyboy
05-12-2008, 02:19 PM
Drops, drops, more drops and horrendous blocking makes him subpar in my book.

Not to mention he's soft as Charmin. Alex Smith > LJ Smith.

Geo
05-12-2008, 02:27 PM
Do you believe him?

I do. I think the Eagles quietly had one of the best offseasons in the league, and may very well win the NFC East this year.

Let's look at what went wrong last year, and what will change this year:

1. A healthy Donovan McNabb. He was not ready until half way through the season last year. Thats when they finally started clicking. This year he'll be back and even if he does go down, you have Kevin Kolb in his 2nd year backing him up. Theyll be fine if he misses a couple of games. Better off than last year, thats for sure.
Re: McNabb, I'm not a big believer in him basically. I think the guy is severly overrated. That's me though, I suppose, and he certainly looked good to start 06 until he became miserable and then injured, a feat he's repeated from 05 to 07. I think it's very worth noting that 11 of his 19 touchdowns last season came in 3 games:

4- Detroit at home (no comment necessary with their pass defense)
4- at Washington (Westbrook was his beastly self, scoring a shovel pass TD and a 57-yd screen pass TD, plus 5 ypc rushing for 100; and Washington's severly overrated defense)
3- at New Orleans (see above Lions comment)

And he never threw more than one touchdown in any other game that season. Yes, you read all of that right.

It wouldn't surprise me if McNabb plays horribly this season, given this year's schedule, and I'll say right now he doesn't even finish the year. Whether it's injury or demotion in favor of Kolb.

2. A healthy LJ Smith. Their best "WR" was injured all of last year. Even then, their offense that "lacks playmakers" was the 6th ranked offense in the league last year. They couldn't punch it in the endzone however. Why? Mainly bc McNabb wasn't himself, and LJ was hurt. No big body threat in the redzone.
No thx, Kevin Curtis >> LJ Smith. Curtis is legit, and of course, Brian Westbrook is awesome and better than anyone else on the roster.

3. The WR Corps. Should be better this year. They added Jackson, and even if he's a non factor, Curtis should be much more adjusted to this new offense by now. You saw him grow during the year as he got adjusted to the WCO, he should be very comfortable in it by now.
The problem with the Eagles offense stems from quarterback imo. Of course adding a guy like TO in his prime would help mask that, but McNabb even helped end that perfect fit. I heart D-Jax, but if you're counting on a rookie receiver to make an impact, you're in trouble. Guys like that are the exception to the rule.

However Jackson will help the return game by leaps and bounds, although I don't expect McNabb to do anything with it. Harping, I know.

4. A healthy, younger defense. First and foremost, I think its dumb for them to trade Lito. Why? In today's game, having 3 solid CBs is critical, they have that luxury. And they can always move Brown to Safety. On top of having a solid CB trio, they now have a younger dline. Abriamiri is an upgrade over Kearse, Cole will do his thing, and Laws will at the very least, bring heat as a situational pass rusher. Plus Cleo adds another underrated situational pass rusher to the line.

Plus Stewart Bradley brings more presence at the MIKE position and Gaither can now play WILL. They have a GOOD defense. Very good defense.

You factor in all of that, I expect a top 10 defense in the NFL easy, plus an offense that should be back to its 06 form, when it was top 2 in the league.

Don't sleep on the Eagles.
Is the defense better than last year? Yes. Adding Samuel and Clemons helps them, especially Samuel who can actually make plays. Dumping the waste of space that is Jevon Kearse is addition by subtraction, but they'd be even better if they did the same with Darren Howard. No one praised Jim Johnson more for his coaching performance last season than me, honestly. I will admit that Bradley at MIKE leaves me leery somewhat, but Gaither will still handle the defense at WILL and it's not like they lost TKO in his prime.

Although I might disagree with you BBD on the wisdom of having three corners like the Eagles do. With the way the league is today, you'e better off spending that money on offensive skill position players, defensive line, and maybe safety imo. Otherwise it's just not fruitful, given the current rules.

But the Eagles are where they are, and they've got to go with all three guys who are very talented, for the meantime. It will be interesting to see how it works, maybe they can turn the tide as a dominant trio of corners.

The one thing the Eagles have going for them is familiarity with the NFC East, as the Cowboys and the Giants are the biggest roadblocks to getting to the Super Bowl, and that familiarity can decrease the margin of victory both ways. And for all of the East's strengths, the Cowboys fade like grandmothers come playoff time and we have to see Eli handle zone coverages consistently like big bro Peyton.

But in terms of Super Bowl contenders, the NFC sucks otherwise, really. It's going to come down to the East by default, and neither the Eagles nor the Redskins are legit contenders in my mind.

But it amazes me how the Bears are being slept on. LOL, get ready for a 180 folks. Their defense will be back in full force this season, they're going to kick ass and get back to the playoffs. And they can go all the way as well as anyone, especially if they are playing on Soldier Field in January.

Two darkhorses I'd say right now, are probably Seattle and Arizona. But they have some serious flaws though- WRs and the need for HFA when it comes to Seattle, CBs when it comes to Arizona. Very much dark horses, I'm not expecting either to make it.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-12-2008, 02:32 PM
It will always come down to RB and QB with the Bears. If their QB can carry their weight, and factor in not getting hurt, I can see them rebounding in a big way. But now they will have to go against the Packers, and Vikings who are a threat.

I don't see the Redskins as a threat in our divison. I see them more of a spoiler role for the other 3 teams. If the Eagles can stay healthy I see them making a push for the division title.

Geo
05-12-2008, 02:34 PM
This is why the NFC East is hands down the best division in football.
Hands down? They're neck and neck with the AFC South.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-12-2008, 02:43 PM
In terms of records maybe, but in terms of history, 11 superbowls for 3 teams is pretty damn good to me.

Now for more recent play, you guys have the Texans who historically have struggled. We haven't had that team in our division since the Cardinals were in our division.


Even the Titans have struggled for a couple of seasons now without a playoff appearance until recently, they made it in '03. So I'd like to see where both teams go, and what type of consistently they can establish.

Geo
05-12-2008, 02:52 PM
If we're talking history, the NFC East still wouldn't be tops.

We're talking about 2008. If the Texans didn't have swiss cheese for a secondary, there wouldn't be any discussion as to which the better division is, even if the Cowboys look as strong as they do for 08 (but then a big drop-off is coming right after, with their roster/contracts and Jerruh in charge).

Granted the Titans offense is lame, but they have the dirtiest defense in the league, one that is more physical than any team in the East. Lucky for McNabb he's not playing them this year, or they'd take him out for the season again. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Titans went 3-1 against the NFC East in 06, and they're even better now.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-12-2008, 03:05 PM
If we're talking history, the NFC East still wouldn't be tops.

We're talking about 2008. If the Texans didn't have swiss cheese for a secondary, there wouldn't be any discussion as to which the better division is, even if the Cowboys look as strong as they do for 08 (but then a big drop-off is coming right after, with their roster/contracts and Jerruh in charge).

Granted the Titans offense is lame, but they have the dirtiest defense in the league, one that is more physical than any team in the East. Lucky for McNabb he's not playing them this year, or they'd take him out for the season again. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Titans went 3-1 against the NFC East in 06, and they're even better now.


Who has more superbowls? Off the top of my head I can't think of any other franchise with more superbowl wins..

Yeah they went 3-1 in '06 but that's done with. Everyone got better, new coaches came in and other coaches get fired. Specifically, talking about the Giants, we did some house maintaince as well.

Plus I want to see more consistency from the Titans AND the Texans before I say your division is anywhere as good as ours. Yeah the Colts are studs in the that division, and Jags are not far behind. They have a solid team as well, and I respect both teams greatly, but I want to see more historic success from both titans and the texans before I know, if a bad season is an off year instead of the norm.

If the Titans can improve and if the Texans can improve, I will respect them as well, as teams that are getting better, but until they show some level of consistency, be it getting to the playoffs, I wouldn't put your division as the same level as ours.

DLionALL
05-12-2008, 03:24 PM
I'm going to agree and say the NFC East is hands down the toughest division. Being a Eagles fan, I obviously think we're going to play better this year and make a run at the playoffs. Next to that, you've got the Cowboys and the Giants. (Despite my dislike, I respect both of them as great teams and i'm so glad the Giants won the SB)

Being the Superbowl champs, the Giants proved they are better then everyone wrote them off as and Dallas is a serious contender. I honestly expect the Redskins to play better this year too, still think they need a better Pass Rush but I do think they will cause some commotion.

bored of education
05-12-2008, 03:29 PM
Stewart Bradley is going to be a BEAST!!!!!!!!

DragonFireKai
05-12-2008, 03:29 PM
Granted the Titans offense is lame, but they have the dirtiest defense in the league, one that is more physical than any team in the East. Lucky for McNabb he's not playing them this year, or they'd take him out for the season again. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Titans went 3-1 against the NFC East in 06, and they're even better now.

You've lost your mind. Don't confuse one head stomp with a "Physical" defense. How exactly do you define physical defense? One that punishes passers? The Titans had 40 sacks, the Giants had 53, the Cowboys had 46. One that stuffs the run? The Titans gave up 4.0 ypc to opposing running backs, the Giants gave up 3.8, the Eagles gave 3.8, the Cowboys gave up 4.0. How are the Titans more physical?

And you bring up the 06 Titans? That was two years ago, all the teams have changed so much. Marvin Harrison was a feared reciever in 06. In 08? Not so much. Things change.

Geo
05-12-2008, 03:31 PM
Yeah, things change, like the Titans getting better as a team/defense and making the playoff last year. And the Giants finally won a playoff game (although Dallas still hasn't). :rolleyes:

Good for the NFC East that they played the AFC East and the NFC North, to help boost their stats. Try watching the teams play, you'd know how physical the Titans are.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-12-2008, 03:40 PM
I am not saying your division is bad, but with our division it's like musical chairs. This past year 3 teams made it to the playoffs, Giants, Redskins, and Cowboys. Last year 3 teams made it again, Giants, Eagles and Cowboys. The year before it was two from our division. So we have shown and established some sort of consistency.

In '05, had two teams, Colts, and Jags.

In '06, You guys had 1 team make it.. The Colts.

In '07, this past year, first time in a while 3 teams teams made it. Colts, Jags and Titans.


All I am saying is let's establish some consistency from top to bottom, especially the from the teams like the Texans before you count yourselves at the same level as us.



Yeah, things change, like the Titans getting better as a team/defense and making the playoff last year. And the Giants finally won a playoff game (although Dallas still hasn't). :rolleyes:

Good for the NFC East that they played the AFC East and the NFC North, to help boost their stats. Try watching the teams play, you'd know how physical the Titans are.


Yeah well we finally did because we got rid of the trash which was keeping us down. When Coughlin was hired, we had John Hufangel and Tim Lewis as our coordinators, and we had to fire both before we finally won a playoff game. In fact we made the playoffs with those guys, but I, for one despised both coordinators. I called them dumb and dumber, and Huffy didn't even make it through the season, before getting the Axe.

The best thing this franchise did was hiring those two fools, and promoting one, and hiring another.

PackerLegend
05-12-2008, 03:44 PM
What is any head coach going to say? That they think their team sucks....They all have the same goal and no matter how bad they are they all think they can achieve it. Teams dont play to go 4-12, 8-8, 12-4 based on what they think they can achieve that season. Its all about championships...But the Eagles really do have a solid team as long as they can stay healthy they should be in a race with the rest the NFC East which is very good and the NFC for the right to go to the Superbowl.

bigbluedefense
05-12-2008, 03:47 PM
The thing with the AFC South is...its the Colts, and everybody else.

Even with Jacksonville stepping it up and Tennessee and Houston improving, theyre still 2nd fiddle to the Colts, and I don't see that changing soon.

The NFC East on the other hand is up and down, and any team can win the division.


You can argue talent and theres no wrong answers, but I think the East is the best bc theres no lock to win the division, and 3 teams are legit SB contenders.

The AFC south has 2 legit SB contenders in Indy and Jacksonville, and put 3 teams in the playoffs just now. The East has done it for 2 years now.

For that reason I give the edge to the NFC East. Jacksonville and the rest of em have to show me they can beat the Colts before I give them that type of respect.

DragonFireKai
05-12-2008, 03:49 PM
Yeah, things change, like the Titans getting better as a team/defense and making the playoff last year. And the Giants finally won a playoff game (although Dallas still hasn't). :rolleyes:

Good for the NFC East that they played the AFC East and the NFC North, to help boost their stats. Try watching the teams play, you'd know how physical the Titans are.

Don't even try to push the schedule argument any further, not when the AFC South played the NFC South and AFC West. The AFC East and NFC North combined for 64 wins, the AFC West and NFC South only combined for 54 wins. At least the NFC East's OoD schedule made it to .500.

Maybe Next Year Millen2
05-12-2008, 03:58 PM
As far as which division was better last year is tough, its close

AFC South 30-10 out of division played AFC West(down year) and NFC South(down year), but may look worse because they played strong AFC South

NFC East 28-12 out of division played AFC East(besides NE(0-4) very down year) and NFC North(ok year with GB/Minni decent,Bears not terrilbe late, Lions decent early)

Both dominated the divisions they played the most and all teams that played New England lost (0-5).

Indy lost to Ne,beat Bal, Houston beat Mia, lost to Cle, Ten lost to Cincy and beat Jets, Jax beat both Buf and at Pit.

Dal beat St Louis and Carolina, Giants beath both SF and Atlanta, Philly beat New Orleans lost to Seattle and Washington beat Arizona and lost to TB.

Jacksonville beating Pittsburgh twice is the difference maker because Jax could win both the AFC North and AFC West IMO. Giants,Washington and Philly all lost to GB(even though the Giants got the one that mattered), and the top teams in NFC East(Dal/NYG) got weaker teams(SF,StL,Car,Atl) and Philly/Washington got stuck with TB/Seattle division champs and lost. Dallas went 4-0 against the NFC North and could win any division but watching the Dallas/Detroit game just has to make me give it to the AFC South.

Sniper
05-12-2008, 03:59 PM
Stewart Bradley is going to be a BEAST!!!!!!!!

I hope so. He looked good vs. NO this year. If he plays well, it improves our MLB situation as well as our WLB situation because Gaither is a better fit for the WLB, though he was very good at MLB last year.

Geo
05-12-2008, 04:36 PM
The thing with the AFC South is...its the Colts, and everybody else.

Even with Jacksonville stepping it up and Tennessee and Houston improving, theyre still 2nd fiddle to the Colts, and I don't see that changing soon.

The NFC East on the other hand is up and down, and any team can win the division.

You can argue talent and theres no wrong answers, but I think the East is the best bc theres no lock to win the division, and 3 teams are legit SB contenders.

The AFC south has 2 legit SB contenders in Indy and Jacksonville, and put 3 teams in the playoffs just now. The East has done it for 2 years now.

For that reason I give the edge to the NFC East. Jacksonville and the rest of em have to show me they can beat the Colts before I give them that type of respect.
Come on BBD, are you really going to overlook the fact that the two divisions play in different conferences? Give me a break, I expect better from you than that. **** like 8-8, 9-7, or even 10-6 in most years, doesn't even get you in the playoffs in the AFC. Cripes.

You switch the two divisions, and I promise you the AFC South would put 3 teams in the NFC playoffs three times in the next five years.

But anyway, I regret contributing to this NFC East/AFC South discussion, when this thread is about the Eagles in the NFC.

bigbluedefense
05-12-2008, 04:38 PM
Come on BBD, are you really going to overlook the fact that the two divisions play in different conferences? Give me a break, I expect better from you than that. **** like 8-8, 9-7, or even 10-6 in most years, doesn't even get you in the playoffs in the AFC. Cripes.

You switch the two divisions, and I promise you the AFC South would put 3 teams in the NFC playoffs three times in the next five years.

But anyway, I regret contributing to this NFC East/AFC South discussion, when this thread is about the Eagles in the NFC.

Ok, i give you that.

But still, its the Colts and the rest in the AFC South. The East is up for grabs every year while maintaining quality teams.

The South has been owned by the Colts and will continue to be owned by the Colts for at one more year. Its not as competitive in that regards.

Geo
05-12-2008, 04:48 PM
The Colts' dominance over the South doesn't negate the strength of the division itself (which the South making NFL history for most wins by a division last year can attest). That speaks to the consistency of the quality of the Colts, which none of the four teams in the NFC East can say the same of at the current moment.

Check this out:

The Giants were 8-8 in 2006, making the playoffs. The Titans were 8-8 in 2006, with the number of teams ahead of them.

The Giants were 10-6 in 2007, opening the playoffs in Tampa Bay. The Titans were 10-6 in 2007, opening the playoffs in San Diego.

But yeah, let's just discount the Titans.

bigbluedefense
05-12-2008, 04:49 PM
i counter your argument, by pointing out that Cover 2 sucks.

Geo
05-12-2008, 04:52 PM
I'll see you that and say: The AFC added the Tuna. Meanwhile, the NFC has the Carolina Panthers.

*****

But back to the Eagles, would you say Brian Dawkins needs to stay healthy for them to make the playoffs? Is he the most impactful player on their defense, or is it now Trent Cole given that the rest of the line isn't really playmaking? Asante Samuel, a playmaking corner that Lito and Sheldon weren't last year?

Although I should say I really like the interior tandem of Mike Patterson and Brodrick Bunkley. Really like them, I think Bunkley being a starter in 07 completely turned their run defense for the better from 06, although maybe some Eagles fans like bzasa can confirm/deny.

bigbluedefense
05-12-2008, 04:55 PM
I'll see you that and say: The AFC added the Tuna. Meanwhile, the NFC has the Carolina Panthers.

*****

But back to the Eagles, would you say Brian Dawkins needs to stay healthy for them to make the playoffs? Is he the most impactful player on their defense, or is it now Trent Cole given that the rest of the line isn't really playmaking?

Although I should say I really like the interior tandem of Mike Patterson and Brodrick Bunkley. Really like them, I think Bunkley being a starter in 07 completely turned their run defense for the better from 06, although maybe some Eagles fans like bzasa can confirm/deny.

haha :p

Dawkins in my opinion will always be the heart and soul of that team. If he goes down, they won't win the division, and probably won't make the playoffs.

Geo
05-12-2008, 04:57 PM
Johnson made it work last year without Dawkins. It did feel like something was missing, like the Colts w/o Bob Sanders, but the defense can and did come to play nonetheless.

DLionALL
05-12-2008, 04:57 PM
I'll see you that and say: The AFC added the Tuna. Meanwhile, the NFC has the Carolina Panthers.

*****

But back to the Eagles, would you say Brian Dawkins needs to stay healthy for them to make the playoffs? Is he the most impactful player on their defense, or is it now Trent Cole given that the rest of the line isn't really playmaking? Asante Samuel, a playmaking corner that Lito and Sheldon weren't last year?

Although I should say I really like the interior tandem of Mike Patterson and Brodrick Bunkley. Really like them, I think Bunkley being a starter in 07 completely turned their run defense for the better from 06, although maybe some Eagles fans like bzasa can confirm/deny.

I'm not anyone special, but after watching Bunkley play last year, I for one think he had a major part in our turnaround. We got a lot better against the run when he matured, and he's become a unsung hero in my eyes.

bigbluedefense
05-12-2008, 04:59 PM
Johnson made it work last year without Dawkins. It did feel like something was missing, like the Colts w/o Bob Sanders, but the defense can and did come to play nonetheless.

i liken his leadership on that team to Strahan on the Giants. he's the heart and soul of that team, and without him, theyll lose a lot over the course of a 16 game season. that kind of leadership can't be measured with stats.

from a pure talent perspective, i don't know if there is a singular player on that defense that makes it tick. they have good/solid players all across the board.

Geo
05-12-2008, 05:02 PM
The Eagles were so much better against the run in 07.

Check out the comparison:

2006 Rushing defense
489 att - 2182 yds - 12 tds - 4.5 ypc - 314 first downs

2007 rushing defense
403 att - 1533 yds - 10 tds - 3.8 ypc - 279 first downs

bigbluedefense
05-12-2008, 05:10 PM
i think the addition of Bunkley, and the subtraction of Trotter made that possible.

Takeo Spikes was solid against the run though. I don't get why they cut him.

Sniper
05-12-2008, 05:23 PM
i think the addition of Bunkley, and the subtraction of Trotter made that possible.

Takeo Spikes was solid against the run though. I don't get why they cut him.

Because at this point in his career, he was JAG. He had around 100 tackles, but nothing major. He was never in the backfield and didn't cause turnovers. At $5 million, it's not worth keeping him.

Go_Eagles77
05-12-2008, 05:24 PM
Spikes was over-paid and with the emergence of Stewart Bradley he became expendable.

holt_bruce81
05-12-2008, 08:09 PM
Eagles do have a superbowl caliber team. If Donovan Mcnabb and Brian Westbrook stay healthy, the Eagles can go a long way.

TheGreatEscape
05-12-2008, 09:13 PM
I'm just about to make a post about why I love this site and how respectable the fans are to teams even in their own division, then you have to make a post like this.

Honestly I could see the east going to any team this year, it's a pretty good bet that 3 teams will make the playoffs again this year, the only question is who will be the odd team out. Injuries will play a huge factor liked previously mentioned, for example if Brian Westbrook goes down, we're screwed.

Thanks, I'm just not allowed to talk about a rival unless there's some backhand to the compliment.

bigbluedefense
05-13-2008, 08:29 AM
what do you guys think of Cleo? 8 sacks last year, seems pretty underrated if used in a situational pass rushing role. Why did Oakland let him go?

Ill be curious to see if the Eagles try using 3 DEs on the line in nickel situations similar to how the Giants used their pass rushers. I wouldn't be surprised if that becomes a new trend in the NFL.

Geo
05-13-2008, 11:03 AM
You talk like the Giants invented 3 DEs in the nickel/3rd down defense, lol.

bored of education
05-13-2008, 11:04 AM
You talk like the Giants invented 3 DEs in the nickel/3rd down defense, lol.

They didn't?

bigbluedefense
05-13-2008, 11:05 AM
lol, we probably did invent using 4 though :)

if anything i could see our success with it make it more popular around the league. it really allows you to do a lot more twisting and stunting on the dline.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-13-2008, 11:06 AM
You talk like the Giants invented 3 DEs in the nickel/3rd down defense, lol.

Invented? No.. But because this is a copycat league, I, too, am curious to see if teams put 3 DEs out there on 3rd down. Plus it's not really a question of inventing it, it's more personnel utilization than anything. We also put 3 safties on the field as well. So our defense does basic HS level stuff, where we put the best 11 on the field regardless of position.

bigbluedefense
05-13-2008, 11:10 AM
Invented? No.. But because this is a copycat league, I, too, am curious to see if teams put 3 DEs out there on 3rd down. Plus it's not really a question of inventing it, it's more personnel utilization than anything. We also put 3 safties on the field as well. So our defense does basic HS level stuff, where we put the best 11 on the field regardless of position.

i predict we're going to see Terrell Thomas being used as FS on occasion the way we did with Ross last year.


and now with Phillips and Knight, i expect to see even more Michael Johnson blitzes out of 3 safety sets. if you think about it Shock, I think we're more of a zone blitzing team than a press man team. what you think?

Geo
05-13-2008, 11:11 AM
Not that the Colts are close to the first team to think it up, but off the top of my head, they've been doing it since 2003. Raheem Brock would slide inside to UT and Robert Mathis (42 sacks, 25 FFs in 5 yrs so far) coming in at LDE, and since 2006, Brock and Mathis have been the starters at those positions.

bigbluedefense
05-13-2008, 11:14 AM
it should be noted though, that we used 3 DEs even in our base 4-3 on running downs.

thats mainly bc Tuck is such an ox he's strong enough to play UT if he had to.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-13-2008, 11:16 AM
Not that the Colts are close to the first team to think it up, but off the top of my head, they've been doing it since 2003. Raheem Brock would slide inside to UT and Robert Mathis (42 sacks, 25 FFs in 5 yrs so far) coming in at LDE, and since 2006, Brock and Mathis have been the starters at those positions.

I can see that as a good move on your part. From an Xs and Os standpoint, a cover 2 base D needs to rely on the front 4 for pass pressure, otherwise the scheme is ineffective. Because of that the Lbs all spot drop to curl/hook zone, meaning your front 4 has to generate pressure to make the QB throw. Pretty much that system is based on being undersized, and utilitzes smarts and speed, to keep plays in front of you. So by doing what you said above, it makes sense because you want your best pass rushers out there to generate pressure.

We do it because we need to find a way to put the best players out there, otherwise our best weapons will sit on the bench because of a traditional depth chart. So that's why we moved Kiwi to LB, and Tuck inside, so now we have all our guys on the field. We do the stuff we do on defense because we want to give everyone playing time to keep people happy. Also, it works out because they happen to be good as well.

Geo
05-13-2008, 11:17 AM
Again, Brock and Mathis have been starting at UT and LDE respectively since 2006.

They rotate just like Tuck rotates (Jay Alford the guy that comes in?).

*****

Back to the Eagles right quick, now is Victor Abiamiri's chance to start just like last year was Bunkley's. I liked the addition of him by the Eagles, looking forward to seeing how he does.

*****

Q on the impromptu G-Men discussion: Kiwanuka finally moves to DE permanently if Strahan retires, yes?

NY+Giants=NYG
05-13-2008, 11:22 AM
i predict we're going to see Terrell Thomas being used as FS on occasion the way we did with Ross last year.


and now with Phillips and Knight, i expect to see even more Michael Johnson blitzes out of 3 safety sets. if you think about it Shock, I think we're more of a zone blitzing team than a press man team. what you think?

We are actually both from what I observed. That guy who did that breakdown of the defense I showed you, was a 1-AA college coach, and knows alot of stuff in terms of Xs and Os of what we run. But he did mention we do run both.

We play inside technique or man up on the CBs, and at times we send Osi and Strahan. We do this until the opposing offense gets it in their heads that we will continue to do this, and that's where the fun begins for us.

That's when we start fire zoning both sides, dropping Osi and Strahan in coverage, and have our LBs over load A gap for middle pressure. So for instance, we can fire zone one side, and Osi would drop, 1 or 2 LBs will blitz A gap, while if we are in nickel, the Safety or CB will blitz from the alley as well. So now we have A gap pressure, D gap pressure from the fire zone, while maintaining stability in coverage, and we are actually blitzing from the alley as well. Factor in regular pressure from Tuck, and Robbins and that's what makes the system work.

It all revolves around our front 4, and during the course of the game, when the opposing offense adjusts, we adjust, and mess with their minds, so to speak. Getting Philips will allow us to blitz him while Butler and Knight are in coverage. Spags thinks both are very smart so should be in the right place, while the others blitz.

bigbluedefense
05-13-2008, 11:23 AM
Again, Brock and Mathis have been starting at UT and LDE respectively since 2006.

They rotate just like Tuck rotates (Jay Alford the guy that comes in?).

*****

Back to the Eagles right quick, now is Victor Abiamiri's chance to start just like last year was Bunkley's. I liked the addition of him by the Eagles, looking forward to seeing how he does.

*****

Q on the impromptu G-Men discussion: Kiwanuka finally moves to DE permanently if Strahan retires, yes?

no, Spags said he has no intention of moving Kiwi back to DE if Strahan retires.

He'll probably move Tuck to LE, start Alford at UT, and keep Kiwi at SAM, move him on the line in the nickel.

As for Abriamiri, i see him having a good season.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-13-2008, 11:24 AM
Again, Brock and Mathis have been starting at UT and LDE respectively since 2006.

They rotate just like Tuck rotates (Jay Alford the guy that comes in?).

*****

Back to the Eagles right quick, now is Victor Abiamiri's chance to start just like last year was Bunkley's. I liked the addition of him by the Eagles, looking forward to seeing how he does.

*****

Q on the impromptu G-Men discussion: Kiwanuka finally moves to DE permanently if Strahan retires, yes?


I'd think so.. Only because now just drafted 2 LBs we are high on already, AND we have Zak DeOssie as well who could fight for a spot. So when Strahan retires we could keep him there, and move Tuck to DE, and move Kiwi as Tuck's old spot. But I doubt that because Tuck is truly a hyrbid which his weight and strength to take on guards. But I see Kiwi moving back to DE, Tuck saying the same, and one of the young LBs sliding over.

Geo
05-13-2008, 11:25 AM
I always enjoy when S+M=S goes chalkboard. :D

I'd like to see Kiwi at DE, he's an exceptional player waiting to happen there imo.

bigbluedefense
05-13-2008, 11:27 AM
We are actually both from what I observed. That guy who did that breakdown of the defense I showed you, was a 1-AA college coach, and knows alot of stuff in terms of Xs and Os of what we run. But he did mention we do run both.

We play inside technique or man up on the CBs, and at times we send Osi and Strahan. We do this until the opposing offense gets it in their heads that we will continue to do this, and that's where the fun begins for us.

That's when we start fire zoning both sides, dropping Osi and Strahan in coverage, and have our LBs over load A gap for middle pressure. So for instance, we can fire zone one side, and Osi would drop, 1 or 2 LBs will blitz A gap, while if we are in nickel, the Safety or CB will blitz from the alley as well. So now we have A gap pressure, D gap pressure from the fire zone, while maintaining stability in coverage, and we are actually blitzing from the alley as well. Factor in regular pressure from Tuck, and Robbins and that's what makes the system work.

It all revolves around our front 4, and during the course of the game, when the opposing offense adjusts, we adjust, and mess with their minds, so to speak. Getting Philips will allow us to blitz him while Butler and Knight are in coverage. Spags thinks both are very smart so should be in the right place, while the others blitz.

yeah i noticed we do both, but i noticed when we play against teams with very good skill position players, we use more zone blitz then man. i think ideally we want to use more man, but we just don't have the personnel for it yet.

we also use a lot of press zone blitz. id say we're 50/50 in terms of man vs zone. we're not the exclusive man defense that people think we are though. we run a lot of exotic packages.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-13-2008, 11:35 AM
I always enjoy when S+M=S goes chalkboard. :D

I'd like to see Kiwi at DE, he's an exceptional player waiting to happen there imo.

To me that's what football is. Anyone can talk football about who the best CB is, best qb, best DE.. But this is what it is in opinion, and that's how you can tell what's really going on. I was the youngest on my staff this past year, and they used to rip me for being on message boards, because the fan perception of the game is totally different to what is actually going in the meeting rooms, practice fields, and sideline during the games.

Also, BBD knows what I am talking about when I go chalkboard! : )

bigbluedefense
05-13-2008, 11:38 AM
I always enjoy when S+M=S goes chalkboard. :D

I'd like to see Kiwi at DE, he's an exceptional player waiting to happen there imo.

i know we're going off topic, but screw it, its not like theres anything going on right now anyway haha :)

I also think Kiwi can be a very good DE if given the chance. The problem is we have Tuck and Osi ahead of him. I think the best DE of the bunch is Tuck, he's better than Osi and Kiwi, but I also think that Kiwi has potential (emphasis on potential) to be better than Osi.

The problem is, how do you make it work? I think the only realistic way to get these guys all on the field for 3 downs is moving one to hybrid SAM, and we chose to do that with Kiwi since he's the smallest of the 3. He can still rush like hell in our nickel, and he's deadly on the blitz as SAMbacker, but for this experiment to work he needs to work on his stiffness in coverage.

Unless we decide to use Tuck as a fulltime UT, but i don't think thats a good idea, i like him the way he is right now.


And Im also greedy, i want us to break the bank and steal Tommie Harris from the Bears so we can have a dline that consists of Tuck, Alford, Harris and Osi on the line in the 4-3 with Kiwi standing up, and a nickel line of Kiwi, Harris, Tuck, and Osi.

NY+Giants=NYG
05-13-2008, 11:40 AM
yeah i noticed we do both, but i noticed when we play against teams with very good skill position players, we use more zone blitz then man. i think ideally we want to use more man, but we just don't have the personnel for it yet.

we also use a lot of press zone blitz. id say we're 50/50 in terms of man vs zone. we're not the exclusive man defense that people think we are though. we run a lot of exotic packages.

Yeah we would have to zone blitz, because it still maintains coverage intergrity. If we blitzed and played man, one zone would be open, and all teams would do is find what zone through film breakdown, and tell their players just to sit in it. So we have to maintain coverage intergrity and zone blitzing is the way to do it.

The funny thing about these exotic packages is that they are so simple. They are high school simple. The best 11 are always on the field. If that means 3 safties or 3 DEs, or whatever it is, that's what's going to happen, which is such a change in the pro level where there is a depth chart and such. I never broke down the defensive until the superbowl, because defense bores me, lol hence coaching on the offensive side. But I like our defense, and our style.

If anything I expect we change stuff up on offense with our bread and butter run, especially if SHockey gets traded AND if we can't re-sign Jacobs. I want more zone runs on offense.