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keylime_5
05-13-2008, 05:37 PM
Found this article, thought it was great. Nothing like a shot at ESPN and its tools:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/05/13/did-mcshay-mislead-woodson/

DID MCSHAY MISLEAD WOODSON?
Posted by Mike Florio on May 13, 2008, 9:30 a.m.

In response to the news that Kentucky quarterback Andre Woodson was under the mistaken impression that he’d be drafted in the second round of last month’s draft, one league source is pointing the blame directly at Todd McShay and other wannabe scouts who don’t know as much as they think they know about what teams will do.

We tried to search ESPN.com for McShay’s 2008 mock drafts. His final 2008 mock draft now comes up as “null.” The Scouts Inc. final mock, prepared by McShay and two others, is still alive.

In that mock draft, McShay and company had Woodson going in round three to the Bears. Instead, Woodson was selected in round six by the New York Giants.

The following is an opinion that was passed along to us by the source, based on McShay’s assessment of Woodson.

“The problem with people like McShay is that they have no accountability,” the source said. “They can say what they want and when they are wrong no one cares, [except] the kid’s family. McShay could not get a job with any NFL team, even as an intern. He is a very poor evaluator. He proved it with his evaluation of Woodson.

“Woodson’s problem, and most everyone in the league saw it, was he has a very slow release and he stares down his receivers. In our league, he would get a very high percentage of interceptions because of his flaws. His accuracy is very average at best, so you put a slow release, not good accuracy, and stares down receivers and you get a guy who can’t play quarterback in the NFL.

“The networks should hire real scouts not wannabes like McShay. The other kid at ESPN, Jeremy Green, was fired after a couple of years with a club because he couldn’t evaluate, yet he is an “expert” with ESPN. These guys make more than twice as much money as real scouts and they don’t have a clue. ESPN should grade what these guys say and fire them when they are wrong a lot more often than when they are right.”

Moving forward, we’ll be keeping a close eye on what McShay has to say, especially since he seems to be the “hair” apparent to Mel Kiper. And, apparently, we’ll need to print off all of McShay’s mock drafts, since after the fact they can’t be found in a medium that ordinarily is premised on saving stuff, not deleting it.

In saying this, we full acknowledge the fact that we offer up our own periodic mock drafts in the weeks leading up to the draft. But ours isn’t based on our own scouting assessment of the players; we do it based on the things we hear from folks in the know. Even then, our mock draft often is a complete mess, too.

It would be even more of a mess if we pretended to be scouts.

Bengalsrocket
05-13-2008, 05:53 PM
While I agree with their assessment of McShay, the article itself seems like it was created for the sole purpose of taking a jab at ESPN. Whats the point of the article? is he trying to tell his readers to not trust ESPN's Mock Drafts? I don't know about you guys, but when I read a mock draft I don't take it as the final word - I mean they are afterall, mock drafts.

Maybe his point was that Andre Woodson got mislead? Why would Andre trust what anyone has to say about where he will be drafted. I mean lets be honest, all NFL drafts are unpredictable at best - did he get his hopes up to be an NFL starter or something? I'm sorry he got mislead, but its not like he was a top 5 QB comming anyways~

The article seems to lack a point is all I am saying.

Addict
05-13-2008, 05:58 PM
While I agree with their assessment of McShay, the article itself seems like it was created for the sole purpose of taking a jab at ESPN. Whats the point of the article? is he trying to tell his readers to not trust ESPN's Mock Drafts? I don't know about you guys, but when I read a mock draft I don't take it as the final word - I mean they are afterall, mock drafts.

Maybe his point was that Andre Woodson got mislead? Why would Andre trust what anyone has to say about where he will be drafted. I mean lets be honest, all NFL drafts are unpredictable at best - did he get his hopes up to be an NFL starter or something? I'm sorry he got mislead, but its not like he was a top 5 QB comming anyways~

The article seems to lack a point is all I am saying.

I guess the point is that this guy is to follow kiper, and he's not just a poor talent evaluator, he (or his associates) also appear to make his misses "dissappear"... pretty convenient.

keylime_5
05-13-2008, 06:24 PM
yeah it basically tells about how ESPN's "experts" like McShay and Jeremy Green aren't experts at all. “The networks should hire real scouts not wannabes like McShay" it says.

Babylon
05-13-2008, 06:47 PM
Teams and players put stock in mock drafts? they're dumber than i thought they were.

doingthisinsteadofwork
05-13-2008, 06:54 PM
Id have to agree with pretty much everything this article says.

neko4
05-13-2008, 06:59 PM
Teams and players put stock in mock drafts? they're dumber than i thought they were.
What you said

We're all wrong, as much as i dislike McShay, i have to defend him.

Scott had Andre ranked above many QB's that were taken before him and had Erin Henderson as the 8th LB.

Kiper was wrong about things too im sure.

Although, had McShay pumped Woodson up, calling him the next Monatana and a top 5 pick or something and he fell to the 6th like he did, then i feel McShay should have some blame.

LonghornsLegend
05-13-2008, 07:06 PM
We all pretty much knew McShay didn't know what he was talking about, long before this, so it's not really anything new, just points that out...He is spot on about some of those ESPN guys, I won't say all of them, but majority of them are terrible scouting evaluators but make it seem like the gospel when they get their tv time and talk, the fact that he took his mock draft down says something...He doesn't want to look more like an idiot, because when everyone sees how horribly wrong he was, no one would listen to a word he said anymore.


I also notice most of them making broad generalizations about players that they can twist to being right either way it goes after the fact, and guys they are really high on that end up being bust that just goes by the wayside and forgotten, but the few times they are on the money we are constantly reminded about it...ESPN is just too watered down for a hardcore fan of any one sport anyway, its generalized information about everything, I don't ever watch ESPN to learn something I don't know, if you wan't to know about a prospect you have to do your own homework and form your own opinion.

neko4
05-13-2008, 07:07 PM
The worst part for me is that my friends who are less aware of the NFL draft believe this BS

BamaFalcon59
05-13-2008, 07:52 PM
That is dumb. They have no idea, almost noone outside of the teams do. Oh, Duane Brown was a reach. Except that at least two other teams in the like seven picks left in round one wanted him. Scott Wright said Chris Johnson could have been had much later, I think that logic is dumb. Chris Johnson, like Brown, definitely could have went higher than 'draft niks' know. We know nothing.

Hell, even teams disagree on stock. The Browns had Beau Bell as a first-second round talent and he went round four to them. It is all a wash.

Paranoidmoonduck
05-13-2008, 08:00 PM
There are certainly things I could say about Todd McShay that are less than flattering. However, saying that he was misleading towards Woodson is ridiculous. In fact, portraying Woodson going 4 rounds later than he expected as some great tragedy is ridiculous. Actually, that entire critique is ridiculous.

If Woodson had an inflated sense of his own draft stock, then the only person responsible is his agent, who obviously didn't do a good job of measuring his client's expectations. McShay may be a talking head who tends to regurgitate information more than anything, but he is a peripheral figure in the draft process no matter how many ways you slice it.

keylime_5
05-13-2008, 08:54 PM
The stuff about Woodson is a little peculiar I do agree and if he was expecting to go that high just b/c of McShay's mock then his agent was off base, either that or he was looking to the wrong place to find that kind of thing out. But the Woodson thing wasn't why I put this article here, I found most interesting the part about McShay being a terrible scout and a fake expert which confirms what a lot of people who have beefs with his analysis think of him, and the same goes for a lot of ESPN "experts" who get paid a lot just b/c they used to play football to "analyze" things in a totally subjective and not expert opinion.

DragonFireKai
05-13-2008, 09:07 PM
The only ESPN Employee that I trust with QB evaluations is Jaws.

edgrenade
05-13-2008, 11:46 PM
"Real" scouts don't have to work in tv, they work for teams.

soybean
05-13-2008, 11:57 PM
i wonder who's crying at least he got drafted geez.

Con
05-14-2008, 12:11 AM
its easy to trash someone when you're anonymous.

MetSox17
05-14-2008, 12:42 AM
To be a talent evaluator since 98 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_McShay) you have to think he at least knows something. I wouldn't completely bash the guy just because he had Woodson going in the 3rd. Everyone had the same evaluation of Woodson, so back off the guy.

He gets this hate when Mel Kiper is babbling on how Aqib Talib shouldn't fall anywhere lower than the Saints at 10? And how Vernon Gholston is gonna be a complete stud?

McShay had a great point one time i heard him argue with Kiper on how Gholston was overrated. Kiper said he got a sack on Jake Long, but McShay was quick to point out that it was on a 3 step drop that Mallet had held on to the ball about a second and a half longer than he should have.

McShay is alright in my book. The other douchebags they have on ESPN need to go. Im glad they got rid of Sean Salisbury.

foozball
05-14-2008, 12:57 AM
well woodson was a senior, so its not like he came out early for nothing. who cares what mcshay says? woodson should be constantly in contact with actual nfl scouts who should be able to give him a reasonable estimate of where he'd be taken in the draft. im sure woodson thought he'd go higher than the 6th himself...so shouldnt he get some of the blame too for being wrong? no.

and wouldnt woodson need to have espn insider to read his mock? pshh...loser

keylime_5
05-14-2008, 09:08 AM
"Real" scouts don't have to work in tv, they work for teams.

Well sometimes you get a retired GM or former scout to work for you, it's better than just a college grad who is an "expert" simply b/c he does a lot of mock drafts and watches the draft a lot.

Brent
05-14-2008, 09:43 AM
"Real" scouts don't have to work in tv, they work for teams.
end of discussion

soybean
05-14-2008, 11:41 AM
mcshay isn't the reason why woodson dropped, sedrick ellis is.

Xonraider
05-14-2008, 12:00 PM
The worst part for me is that my friends who are less aware of the NFL draft believe this BS

Nothing like my friends. They think that because they see a mock draft THAT is EXACTLY what will happen. Of course I've taught the right way to some... lol

CashmoneyDrew
05-14-2008, 12:11 PM
"Real" scouts don't have to work in tv, they work for teams.

I don't know about you but I would much rather work in tv than be a scout for a team.

Bengals78
05-14-2008, 01:46 PM
Anyone who says a person who made a mock draft misled them to thinking they should go higher than they should isn't "mentally ready" for the NFL.
I could have put Marrio Urrutia as the #1 overall pick and if he got let down he fell to the 7th round is that my fault? No. He should know better than to trust what a "draft analyst" says. Its all educated guessing and hypothesizing.
This from a Woodson fan.

themaninblack
05-14-2008, 04:40 PM
Ya if you're about to be a professional football player and you read into this sort of thing like that it says something and its not a good thing.

Dreamers
05-14-2008, 06:00 PM
All players should go into this process with their eyes wide open. They should be expecting anything to happen on draft day. We have all heard these kind of stories many, many times. To try to pin the blame on McShay for any player's disappointment is absurd. As usual Mike Florio is trying to make a story out of nothing.