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Dam8610
05-14-2008, 05:49 AM
Never too early to look to the future, right? Right now, I'd say the teams biggest draft needs looking to the future are:

1) UT - The one thing the Colts have been missing in Dungy's tenure in Indianapolis is that dominant 3-tech that can get after the QB from the interior. Granted, usually these talents go early (Glenn Dorsey at 5 this year is the latest example), and the Colts have had one top 15 draft pick since Dungy arrived (Dungy's first year here, when Freeney was brought in), and they've tried to address it numerous ways, drafting several projects and even signing Corey Simon in FA. Still, it would be nice to get that interior pass rusher to see just how dominant the defense can get.

2) CB - Kelvin Hayden is a free agent at season's end, Marlin Jackson is a free agent in 2009. Dante Hughes can't replace both, and personally I don't see Tim Jennings doing a good job replacing either. If either has to be replaced, more depth will be needed, so this could become a position of need come draft time.

3) WR - I list this as a need because of Marvin Harrison. Marvin is an all-time great, but if legal troubles don't get him (they likely won't), and injury troubles don't get him (unknown either way), he's still 36 and in the twilight of a HOF career. The Colts run a lot of 3 WR as well as 2 TE, so getting another WR could wind up a priority.

4) RB - Addai is a great number 1 option, and Rhodes is a fine number 2, but Rhodes is old, and I'm not sold on what's behind him on the depth chart. I'd like to see the Colts draft a solid APB to pair with Addai for the future.

That's all I can think of at the moment. IMO, this team is stacked with talent. What do you think?

RagingColt
05-15-2008, 09:21 AM
I'd chime in that I think the Colts will need to draft a safety to possibly replace Bethea should he not be resigned after 2009. A kickoff/punt returner would be nice too. While we are at it, how about someone to fill the big shoes of Jim Sorgi? His contract runs out in 2010, but would the Colts not bring in someone to compete against him before then? Another prospect for RT to replace Diem eventually would be wise imo as well. Don't really see the heir to Diem on the roster right now.

RG

indyfan1985
05-15-2008, 08:47 PM
My potential needs for the Colts are as follows...

-RT(We might soon have to replace Ryan Diem since we are paying him too much and his contract might be up soon)

-DT(We have a decent DT rotation now, but Im still looking for our dominant presence like a Tommie Harris. Wow is all I can say if we had Tommie Harris on this D-line)

-WR(Obviously a position of need once Harrison retires which could be sooner rather than later. I still would prefer then not to draft a WR in the 1st round though)

-QB(I wouldnt mind us drafting our QB of the future behind Peyton to learn for a couple of years. Im sick of seeing Jim Sorgi on this team, he really sucks at playing QB)

Geo
05-20-2008, 01:43 PM
DT Vance Walker of Georgia Tech is my early favorite for the Colts right now, FWIW. Last year was his first starting for an aggressive Georgia Tech defense, and he had 8.5 sacks and 14 TFLs. That's great. Depending on what his weight is exactly, maybe he can play some DE too. He's the guy I'll try to watch the most of this season, I think he could be a big addition to the interior, as Darrell Reid leaves in FA.

I'd also like to get a Darren Sproles type back, as a back who can be a dynamic return man. Although I don't really see a guy like that right now, and anyways the Colts could re-sign Dom Rhodes or Chad Simpson culd be ready to go.

Geo
07-29-2008, 01:43 AM
Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journel Sentinel does a great feature leading up to the Draft where he interviews a bunch of general managers and scouts, getting their insight and tallying votes as to the highest ranked prospects at their positions.

I haven't seen all the '08 Draft position articles, just five - QB, RB & FB, WR & TE, OL, and DL - but I thought I'd copy and paste Bill Polian's comments from them to help us get potential insight into his/the Colts' train of thought when it comes to the Draft. So here goes:

Quarterbacks

When Indianapolis President Bill Polian refers to the class as having "one contender and the rest pretenders," it's understood that he ranks Boston College's Matt Ryan head and shoulders above the pack. Of Ryan, Polian said, " I never say 'can't miss' but Matt Ryan has really no down side."

3. JOE FLACCO, Delaware (6-6, 237, 4.84, 1-2) - "I don't want to say he has presence and poise because it's I-AA," Indianapolis President Bill Polian said. "Having said that, I realize Phil Simms was (Division I-AA), too."

5. JOHN DAVID BOOTY (Southern California: 6-2Ĺ, 216, 4.92, 3) - "He really has no down side," Polian said. "He's a winner, No. 1. No. 2, he's a pretty resourceful guy. I like his arm strength, his accuracy, his delivery."

10. MATT FLYNN, Louisiana State (6-2, 229, 4.79, 5) - "He is the one that could (start) in the right situation," Polian said. "He's a battler and he's won a title."

Runningbacks & Fullbacks

If the Indianapolis Colts had a high pick, they wouldn't shy away from McFadden.

"There are issues there, and there's always going to be issues with certain players," Colts president Bill Polian said. "But my sense is that it's manageable. You have to recognize it and manage it."

Polian prefers McFadden to Peterson because, as he put it, "his fifth gear. He pulls away from you in a heartbeat. He's quick-twitch, tough and elusive. He can throw the ball. He can catch it. Bo Jackson is what you think about with this guy."

2. JONATHAN STEWART, Oregon (5-10, 235, 4.46, 1) - "You will be thrilled to get him," Indianapolis president Bill Polian said. "A workhorse. Hard-nosed. Fast. Punishing."

4. FELIX JONES, Arkansas (5-10, 210, 4.45, 1-2) - "If Felix Jones played for West Virginia," said Polian, "you'd be talking about him in the same breath as Mendenhall and Stewart. He only suffers by comparison to the guy he's playing with."

5. JAMAAL CHARLES, Texas (5-11, 199, 4.40, 1-2) - "He suffers from Texas running back syndrome," Polian said. "How many of them have made it big? Ricky Williams didn't make it big."

1. MATT FORTE, Tulane (6-1, 221, 4.44, 2-3) - "If you like Marion Barber, you're going to love Forte," Polian said. "But he doesn't have the speed, the acceleration and the explosion of the top guys."

Wide Receivers & Tight Ends

1. DEVIN THOMAS, Michigan State (6-2, 213, 4.41, 1) - "He's got so many tools that it's impossible not to fall in love with him," Indianapolis President Bill Polian said.

4. DeSEAN JACKSON, California (5-10, 171, 4.38, 1-2) - "I mean, he's a great player," Polian said. "But those small guys don't prosper in the league. That's the bottom line."

1. FRED DAVIS, Southern California (6-3, 254, 4.67, 1-2) - "His height doesn't bother me," Polian said. "I don't know if he's as good as Dallas Clark but he's damn good. In my view, he's a first-round player."

5. JOHN CARLSON, Notre Dame (6-5, 252, 4.72, 2-3) - "He's not lumbering," Polian said. "He's got a good feel for getting open."

Offensive linemen

2. RYAN CLADY, Boise State (6-6, 311, 5.17, 1) - Will he be the next superstar LT? "Possibly," Indianapolis President Bill Polian said. "I have Clady ahead of Long but I'm not going to argue that one. He's got good feet, he's a big man and he's got nice wingspan (36ĺ-inch arms)."

5. JEFF OTAH, Pittsburgh (6-6, 323, 5.28, 1) - "I just think he's a mauler and he has less-than-great feet," Polian said. "That bothers you. Now it might not bother some other people."

6. GOSDER CHERILUS, Boston College (6-6Ĺ, 317, 5.09, 1-2) - "He's the next in a long line of outstanding Boston College offensive linemen," Polian said. "He's a big mauler. Knock your jock off."

8. CARL NICKS, Nebraska (6-5, 341, 5.22, 2-5) - Described by Polian as "more of a road-grader type,"

Defensive linemen

"I love Gholston," said Bill Polian, president of the Indianapolis Colts. "Size, speed, flexibility, bore, natural pass rush, tough as nails. He's an aggressive, kill-you football player. He and Chris Long are just so overwhelming, just such perfect players."

What about the four sacks against Wisconsin? What about the three sacks against Michigan, including the only one allowed by Jake Long in `07 and another in which Polian recalled Gholston "picking him a poor kid (Stephen Schillinger, the Wolverines' right tackle) and throwing him at the passer."

1. CHRIS LONG, Virginia (6-3, 269, 4.81, 1) - "He might be a double-digit sack guy his first year as a three-technique in our system," Indianapolis President Bill Polian said. "I said to Tony (Dungy): 'What a shame. This is the guy we've been waiting for.' "

5. LAWRENCE JACKSON, Southern California (6-4, 269, 4.84, 1-2) - "Hard-nosed guy with range and pass-rush ability," Polian said. "Physical guy."

7. CALAIS CAMPBELL, Miami (6-8, 285, 5.01, 2) - "Tall, not real physical, not real fast," Polian said. "Kind of a plodder."

4. MARCUS HARRISON, Arkansas (6-2Ĺ, 312, 5.06, 2) - "There's a lot to work with," Polian said. "In the end, there's only a few of those guys. You've got to sort of take a shot at them."

Outside Linebackers & Inside Linebackers

1. KEITH RIVERS, Southern California (6-2, 232, 4.58, 1) - "His production doesn't equal his ability," Indianapolis president Bill Polian said. "If it hasn't at the college level under Pete I don't know why it would here."

Defensive backs

2. DOMINIQUE RODGERS-CROMARTIE, Tennessee State (6-1Ĺ, 182, 4.30, 1) - "He's got a chance to be (great)," said Indianapolis President Bill Polian. "He's got outstanding ability." Polian said "DRC" was as athletic as his cousin, Antonio Cromartie, a second-year CB for San Diego who led the NFL with 10 interceptions in '07.

6. CHARLES GODFREY, Iowa (6-0, 206, 4.41, 2-3) - "He's truly a Cover 2 guy," Polian said. "He will be a little deficient in the one-on-one stuff."

Kick Returners

9. CHRIS JOHNSON, RB East Carolina (5-11, 197, 4.26) - "This guy is a dynamo," Indianapolis President Bill Polian said. "This guy lights it up."

chad72
08-07-2008, 12:07 PM
The possibility of shelling out $10 mil. plus to keep both Kelvin Hayden and Bethea is remote. One of them will go. Antoine Bethea will be in more demand, IMO, because of being a free safety. Kelvin Hayden is by not means a fast or shutdown corner for other systems plus the history of Jason David will make teams understand that Kelvin Hayden is more valuable to us than he could be for other teams. But Bethea could fit into most teams' schemes.

Kelvin Hayden's market value will probably be in the $5-6 mil. range like a Nathan Vasher or Charles Tillman of the Bears who signed up in that range. Bethea's market value will probably be in the $6-7 mil. range unless he does not do as well as the past two years. The Colts may get a free safety from the draft and let Bethea go and keep Kelvin Hayden, that is what my gut tells me.

So, most likely a free safety will be the first pick, Courtney Greene of Rutgers will fit our system good and is a 3 year starter at safety.

BP has never picked a DT or an LB earlier than the third round. Going by that, he will go for an OT to replace Ryan Diem and his contract, maybe Alex Boone from Ohio State, maybe??? But if he wants to go the WR route, he may look at Demetrius Byrd of LSU, a good route runner just like they brought in Earl Doucet this year.

Geo
08-07-2008, 12:25 PM
Why I don't think the Colts will draft a defensive tackle in the first round

It's a crapshoot with those guys, and I think the Colts would sooner draft someone they can invest ten-plus years in and get that production, at positions with much more shelf-life and certainty.

Sure, if you think about the really good Tampa 2 defenses that have a great three-technique tackle - the Bucs with Warren Sapp, the Bears with Tommie Harris, the Vikings with Kev Williams - but the latest those guys were drafted was the 14th overall pick with Harris. Sapp fell to the 12th overall pick back in '95, Williams was taken 9th overall in the same year as Harris. Booger McFarland was the 15th overall pick in '99, Corey Simon the 6th overall pick in 2000. Even recent prospects like Amobi Okoye, Chris Long, Glenn Dorsey, and Sedrick Ellis didn't get out of the Top 10 in recent years. Obviously the Colts haven't drafted that high, nor do they expect to in future years, and that is where the best guys who make it are going.

Really, who was the last franchise defensive tackle to be taken around the 32nd overall pick? Mike Patterson if you're really big on the guy, but otherwise. Ryan Pickett was taken 29th overall in '01, but he's a nose tackle. Chris Hovan was the 25th overall pick out of Boston College the year before, not really a franchise guy or playmaker.

I want an impact three-tech too, but I'm not expecting the Colts to draft one in the first round - and I can't blame them at all, it's too tough a position to project to use a first round pick. So hard to guage how much and for how long those big guys want to endure the punishment and play the game, and most of the bright guys probably leave earlier than later to spare the quality of life thereafter. Thankfully next year's tackle class looks really deep, so the Colts can do the right thing and continue to build up a very strong rotation with mid-round picks.

indyfan1985
08-08-2008, 12:00 PM
I think they should definately take care of their DT situation in next year's draft. There are plenty of good DTs to take in 2009 such as Jeff Owens or Geno Atkins from Georgia.

Dam8610
08-08-2008, 12:20 PM
Well, if they're looking at Chris Long as the ideal 3-tech, then I don't know if I want a DT drafted that high. I understand he's got an excellent motor and can get after the QB, but like Brock in 2006 and probably Dawson this year, he'd get pushed back by the opposing OG 5 yards on every run play.

UKfan
08-09-2008, 02:35 PM
I agree with the sentiment Geo, and on that note, if it looks like we don't have many holes to fill next year, I'd consider trading up for a premier pass rushing DT in the top half of round 1.

Geo
08-09-2008, 04:55 PM
Or maybe trading 09's 1st for a (better) 1st in '10? You hit it on the head, UKF: there isn't a glaring weakness we can point to right now as first round need.

Quarterback
Not a first round consideration with Peyton Manning on the team, although we're very unsure about Jim Sorgi (all jokes aside). I really like the addition of Quinn Gray right now, he's a talent imo and can maybe make a case for himself despite only joining the team in training camp. An idea I have in my head is Alex Smith, if San Fran should decide to cut bait with him next summer, I think slowly but surely developing him correctly behind Peyton could do wonders for him and for the team. Smith might not win a game on his own, but a talented, executing offense like the Colts could provide him success.

Runningback
Maybe a dynamic utility man like Percy Harvin, assuming he even falls that far? CJ Spiller would be an even better option, but he'd have to reach the pick too. Either would give the Colts speed and more of a jackpot playmaking ability at runningback in the core, also line up at wide receiver on some multiple sets, and be the return man on punts and kickoffs. Joseph Addai will have two years left on his rookie contract after '08, but I think it may be too soon to draft his potential replacement. Rather continue to build up the core with mid/late round picks, if Dom Rhodes isn't re-signed.

Wide Receiver
Honestly I was thinking wide receiver would be the consideration, I like Brian Robiskie at Ohio State and at 6-3/200 he could give Peyton a bigger receiver to work with, also the Heyward-Bey kid at Maryland reportedly has loads of potential with no quarterback to help him fulfill it. That said, even if this is Marvin Harrison's last year with the Colts, the future is looking really bright right now with Roy Hall progressing and Pierre Garcon looking good as a rookie. So I would scratch wide receiver from the first round.

Offensive Line
The Colts' offensive line for the future is set except for right tackle, but Diem isn't an aging veteran. Still, maybe right tackle is the main consideration by default for the first round, if the Colts are willing to take one there and want a guy to replace Ryan Diem by that summer or the next (as they originally planned with Tony Ugoh).

Defensive Line
Defensive end is a premium position, but Raheem Brock is signed through 2010, Robert Mathis is signed through 2011, and Dwight Freeney is signed through 2012. And Marcus Howard looks like a beast. So unless the Colts think an end like Greg Middleton (6-3/272) of Indiana can play enough at both end and tackle to merit a 1st round pick, that might not be it either.

At tackle the loss of Quinn Pitcock worries me, he was the most full-fledged run-stopper on the team and Eric Foster is a great fit but fits a different mold. But again, how willing are the Colts to draft a defensive tackle in the 1st round? Don't fret though, there should be some really good guys in the 2nd round and beyond, players like Peria Jerry of Ole Miss and around half-dozen guys worth considering out of the Big Ten (yay).

Linebacker
I'll believe the Colts under Coach Dungy draft a linebacker in the 1st round when I see it.

Cornerback
Kelvin Hayden becomes a free agent after '08, but the Colts currently have four young talents behind him in Hughes, Jennings, Coe, and Rushing. This isn't like in '05 when the starters were Jason David and Nick Harper, and the Colts thankfully drafted stud Marlin Jackson and the aforementioned Hayden. There'd have to be a really good corner on the board for the Colts to draft him, I suppose.

Safety
Antoine Bethea is a free agent after '09, but considering the Colts inserted Bethea as a rookie free safety, maybe they are willing to do the same with Bethea's successor (assuming Antoine is not re-signed) and thus wait until the 2010 Draft to get him.

MaxV
08-11-2008, 07:56 PM
We'll see how the season plays out.

Who knows? Maybe Foster can turn out to be good player.

But as of right now, I agree that DT looks like the biggest concern.

Geo
08-13-2008, 10:33 PM
Scott has posted his first '09 mock, and has the Colts picking in the 1st round ... senior defensive tackle Fili Moala of Southern Cal.

Thoughts?

I'm not a fan of the pick myself.

Dam8610
08-14-2008, 05:52 PM
Scott has posted his first '09 mock, and has the Colts picking in the 1st round ... senior defensive tackle Fili Moala of Southern Cal.

Thoughts?

I'm not a fan of the pick myself.

Well, according to him Moala is:

1) The top DT in this class
2) The 9th best player overall
3) The size of an undertackle

All 3 reasons why, at this point, I can't say I hate the pick.

indyfan1985
08-16-2008, 12:37 PM
Scott has posted his first '09 mock, and has the Colts picking in the 1st round ... senior defensive tackle Fili Moala of Southern Cal.

Thoughts?

I'm not a fan of the pick myself.

I'm a big fan of us picking a DT in the first round next year. Although there are some other guys I like a little better than Moala. I would much rather have Sen'Derrick Marks there. I think we can for the most part agree though that DT is our biggest need going into next offseason. I just dont have faith in our other DTs outside of Johnson. And Brock is meant for DE.

Dam8610
08-16-2008, 03:18 PM
And Brock is meant for DE.

I'd rather have the 2 more years of starting experience and 25 more pounds of bulk Brock brings to the table at UT than the green Dawson there.

Geo
08-16-2008, 05:03 PM
The incorrect numbers on Colts.com aren't gospel, there isn't 10 pounds between Raheem Brock and Keyunta Dawson. Both guys are around 260, if not even close to 250.

(Can I just say that I love how Roy Hall, who is actually 6-2/230, had a growth spurt with the Colts to make him 6-3/240, and then even 6-4 at times this summer? LOL, okay.)

Also, it's quite a hoot how you've drastically changed from having Brock as your least favorite starter and wanting desperately to kick him out the door in a year's time or so, Dam.

Dam8610
08-16-2008, 05:11 PM
Also, it's quite a hoot how you've drastically changed from having Brock as your least favorite starter and wanting desperately to kick him out the door in a year's time or so, Dam.

I want him out as UT, but not to make way for Keyunta Dawson. For the record, I always felt Brock was best in the role the Colts want to put him in this year, but Brock has gotten to the point that he can at least hold the UT gap, and I don't want to go through another season of watching the growing pains of a DE learning to play UT. I saw enough of it in 2006.

Geo
08-16-2008, 05:17 PM
As for Moala, I'd put the chance of the Colts drafting him at zero percent. It's a pick I expect from Scott, because probably more than any other team, he really does have an outside view of the Colts when it comes to the Draft.

I'd rather not speak in definites because that's rather presumptuous of me, but I'm fairly confident in believing the team won't draft a defensive tackle of that size, with those concerns about motor, character, athleticism, and production relative to talent and team. Not in the 1st round or any round soon after.

There's reasons why between the two major scouting agencies Blesto and National, one gave Moala a 5th round grade and the other didn't even give him a draftable grade. Maybe Scott is confident he'll have a big year, but I wouldn't put that future bust-to-be anywhere near the top of my DT rankings for the Colts. Thanks but no thanks, I'd sooner take my chances hoping the Colts beat the odds and get a second Georgia defensive lineman in a row who won't bust or fizzle out. If not skip both options and go with someone else.

Also, I would want to steer clear of any Auburn prospects because that school has been a complete bust factory other than Jason Campbell and Marcus McNeil. I love to watch the team because they are so fun to watch, superb college players but not near as great pros. Just stop for a moment and think if you can name three, heck two, former Auburn defensive players who are playing well in the pros. Same deal with Oklahoma imo, which plays in an inferior conference at that to make them look even better.

Also, keep note of which junior defensive tackles declare early to cash in, especially after only one good season in their collegiate careers. The Top 15 guys are excuded for financial reasons, but when mid-round guys can't even stick around to be senior leaders, how committed are they going to be to being great pros? Let's just say it doesn't surprise me that the Bengals drafted Pat Sims this past April, I was expecting them to (although in the 2nd round, not the 3rd).

The Colts have an eye towards the Big Ten, and that's good thinking imo. There's a good amount of players there with character, ability, desire, and intelligence. Also a team like Georgia Tech and some other schools who don't skimp on those mentioned factors.

fischbowl
09-05-2008, 08:46 AM
I just drafted in the forum mock:

1) Ricky Jean-Francois, DT, LSU
2) Louis Murphy, WR, Florida

Any thoughts?

UKfan
09-05-2008, 09:53 AM
I'd say WR isn't a need personally, and certainly not in the second round, but that's just me.

fischbowl
09-05-2008, 11:22 AM
In my opinion, the value was most certainly there with Murphy.

Marvin Harrison isn't exactly a spring chicken either

UKfan
09-05-2008, 11:28 AM
Maybe not, but we have Reggie, Gonzalez, Roby, Garcon and Roy Hall behind him. Depth has looked superb in preseason, we had to let Aromashodu go as a result. I'm happy with our WR's without Marvin.

Geo
09-05-2008, 11:46 AM
In my opinion, the value was most certainly there with Murphy.

Marvin Harrison isn't exactly a spring chicken either
I agree, the value is there with Murphy. Not sure if he's a fit for the Colts, but the value/talent is there. Jean-Francois, I'd probably go with a few other tackles instead if I was going for a DT there (plus Geno Atkins is the only junior I would consider).

As for Harrison, if he and his agent don't agree to a big pay-cut after this season, the Colts should cut him imo. Cold but true, he's not worth a 9M base salary at age 37. No thanks.

I've been thinking of doing a ridiculously early 09 Colts mock, if for no other reason than to laugh at it months from now. I'll try to do it.

Dam8610
09-05-2008, 12:26 PM
I just drafted in the forum mock:

1) Ricky Jean-Francois, DT, LSU
2) Louis Murphy, WR, Florida

Any thoughts?

If Jean-Francois is a UT, that works for me, if that 3-tech spot is addressed well, the Colts defense could become dominant. I have my personal preference of Vance Walker at this point, but it's WAY too early to tell who's worth it, who's not, when players can be had, etc. As for WR, I get the whole Marvin thing, but IMO WR has actually become one of the deepest positions on the team. Really it's impossible to say what the #2 need is at this point, because there are excellent fits for the system everywhere else. It might be time to get a RT of the future, though other than LT and recently C, the Colts haven't invested much in the OL, maybe Kelvin Hayden doesn't come back and a CB is needed (though I don't see how you let your #1 corner go, even in this system). I'm not a fan of investing in a Florida WR, either.

Geo
09-08-2008, 01:40 PM
I was giving this some thought the last week, and wonder how others feel:

The number one prospect on my Colts' big board is Ohio State cornerback Malcolm Jenkins. A starting duo of Jenkins and Marlin Jackson would be too awesome beyond words. Plus they even have the same initials, those of Michael Jordan - not a coincidence. Jenkins, like Jackson, could offer free safety capability although he might even be better than Jackson in that regard. He won't get near the Colts' first round pick though, just wishful thinking.

I'll put up an early 09 mock in a few days.

Dam8610
09-08-2008, 03:08 PM
Another CB? Despite dropping that INT last night, Hayden is the team's best CB IMO, and I doubt the team lets him leave. DT showed as a need last night, but we'll see what continues to show as the season wears on.

Geo
09-08-2008, 05:06 PM
I couldn't disagree more with you Dam, Marlin Jackson is the best corner on the team imo. Look at what he does in coverage, he near shuts guys out. Plus he can play either corner spot, nickel corner which is where the team moves him in those situations, free safety, and strong safety if the situation calls for it. Could probably be servicable at linebacker, in an emergency situation. Marlin is a stud imo, he has size and speed and can pretty much do it all. Hayden makes more interceptions, but he also gives up a lot more because of his coverage at times.

As for biggest need going into '09, I would agree that it is defensive tackle. Darrell Reid is a free agent after this year, there's an empty spot in the roster even if Dan Muir pans out.

I just think that Jenkins could very well be the best player in the class, for the Colts.

RCAChainGang
09-08-2008, 05:37 PM
I would like to see Demetrius Byrd come to Indy. What do you guys think?

Geo
09-08-2008, 06:12 PM
My ridiculously early Colts' 09 mock

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2006/1021/ncf_us_spiller_195.jpg
1st round- CJ Spiller, runningback, Clemson
My patience with Joseph Addai is becoming to wear thin, thankfully the Colts have Mike Hart now and just need to pair him with a speedier back. Of course this is assuming that Spiller declares as a junior and falls this far, and for a talent like him to do that, it's not a common occurrence - especially if/when he performs at the Combine. He will fit the Polian formula to a tee and will be 22 years old come August '09. I'm bigger on Spiller than most others admittedly, as when I see his build and his physical talent, I see Marshall Faulk. He won't match Faulk mentally, but few if any backs will have the mind of an offensive coordinator like Faulk did. Spiller is the only back I would consider here, Beanie Wells will be off the board and my bust radar tells me to pass on Knowshon Moreno and Percy Harvin. Spiller could line-up some outside and also be a dynamic return man.

Alternate considerations:
OT Alex Boone, Ohio State- franchise right tackle, as part of the new and improved OL of the future. Has left tackle potential too, if things don't work out with Tony Ugoh and/or his second contract negotiations. Still, it seems too high to draft a right tackle, then again protecting the franchise in Peyton Manning is imperative.
CB Alphonso Smith, Wake Forest- I kept an eye on him this past week against Ole Miss, and wasn't impressed. Still, the Colts could definitely add a corner to the roster if/when Kelvin Hayden leaves in free agency, and I can't say I like a corner much past Malcolm Jenkins. This class of corners leaves me lukewarm at best, I don't like them much at all. Few if any fit the Colts' profile. I wish there was a mid-round Big Ten (or SEC or Pac Ten) corner to get enthused about, junior Vontae Davis has concentration issues and that sounds my alarm big time, Morgan Trent has thankfully improved over his time at Michigan. Trent might tear up the 40 at the Combine so perhaps he goes earlier than he should. Smith might be a necessary evil, but he is in consideration for BPA to be fair.

http://thegooley.com/image/thumb/250-250/1003423.jpg
2nd round- Vance Walker, defensive tackle, Georgia Tech
Big body for the defensive interior who can pressure the quarterback but also play the run some. Yes he plays in the ACC, but here's hoping he will pan out.

Alternate considerations:
DT Peria Jerry, Mississippi; DT Evander Hood, Missouri- both guys could be good fits for a one-gap defense as the Colts run.
DE Tim Jamison, Michigan- Good end who can put pressure on the QB and play the run. Listed at 6-3/266, the Colts would probably play him inside too. Raheem Brock isn't getting any younger, his best football may be behind him.
RB Javon Ringer, Michigan State- I like Ringer a good deal, has considerable receiving abiliy and also a candidate for return duties. I'd rather draft him in the third round though.

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0718/ncf_g_gardner_200.jpg
3rd round- Andrew Garner, offensive tackle, Georgia Tech
Going back to the Yellowjacket well, what can I say? Quality school, Chan Gailey was a quality coach who brought in some quality talent. Garner is a multi-year starter, could be the right tackle of the future. Or at least, the premium back-up who can play both positions as well as possibly guard because he has the smarts and ability. Don't overlook fellow Georgia Tech defensive tackle Darryl Richard either, he could be a very good pick/player too.

Alternate considerations:
A linebacker or corner perhaps. Maybe even another defensive tackle?

Geo
09-08-2008, 06:26 PM
Runningback is a bit of surprise, I definitely admit. And I'm exaggerating frustration with Joseph Addai a bit too, heh. Addai is signed through 2010, there's still time.

But trying to guage BPA, so the Colts can become the best team, Spiller stood out to me the most I suppose. Honestly, if the Colts traded their 2009 first round pick for someone's 2010 first round pick, that could work out really well. Except I don't think Polian could pull off such a move, the Colts' skill in the Draft is thanks to their scouting.

Again, it's ridiculously early for a mock, we'll laugh about this months from now.

Dam8610
09-08-2008, 06:31 PM
I couldn't disagree more with you Dam, Marlin Jackson is the best corner on the team imo. Look at what he does in coverage, he near shuts guys out. Plus he can play either corner spot, nickel corner which is where the team moves him in those situations, free safety, and strong safety if the situation calls for it. Could probably be servicable at linebacker, in an emergency situation. Marlin is a stud imo, he has size and speed and can pretty much do it all. Hayden makes more interceptions, but he also gives up a lot more because of his coverage at times.

Hayden is and has been the #1 CB for a while now. Marlin may have versatility on him, but Hayden is more of a playmaker and always seems to be around the ball. Really I'd like the team to keep both, but if I had to pick one, it would be Hayden. If Bethea doesn't start taking better angles against the run, then maybe he's the odd man out.

As for biggest need going into '09, I would agree that it is defensive tackle. Darrell Reid is a free agent after this year, there's an empty spot in the roster even if Dan Muir pans out.

I hope they bring Reid back, they should be able to. It would be nice if Muir panned out, but regardless, the Colts still need to find that 3-tech that can do for them what Tommie Harris does for the Bears, or Kevin Williams for the Vikings. I think you and I are on the same page about the guy at this point, but we'll see how the DT class pans, I could easily see Walker moving up a lot of boards, especially those of Tampa 2 teams.

I just think that Jenkins could very well be the best player in the class, for the Colts.

Corner is an already well addressed position unless Hayden is allowed to leave via FA. If that happens, then CB becomes a need. I'd hope the team makes every effort to resign Hayden though, especially if they have no plan to resign Saturday.

Geo
09-08-2008, 06:36 PM
If Bethea doesn't start taking better angles against the run, then maybe he's the odd man out.
I'm glad to see someone else is seeing this too, to confirm what I was thinking. Bethea has been playing poorly (especially against the run) for the most part all throughout the preseason and unfortunately has carried that into the regular season. Hopefully he didn't spend the summer taking the Pro Bowl call-up to his head.

RCAChainGang
09-08-2008, 06:48 PM
Jenkins getting PWNZORD by Charles Scott in sig :D

I do like Jenkins though. It would be sweet to get him in an Indy uniform!

chad72
09-09-2008, 10:11 AM
A top DB will most likely be picked in the first two rounds due to the free agency situation of Kelvin Hayden and Antoine Bethea. Courtney Greene from Rutgers will fit our system well, he is a 3 year starter at free safety. Demetrius Byrd from LSU might be available at the end of the second for us, at WR, a good route runner, if Marvin retires. You never know, maybe a backup OT to replace Ryan Diem and his contract, maybe Alex Boone from Ohio State?? Maybe a third round DT pick like Pitcock and maybe another one with the compensatory pick for Ben Utecht. I don't remember the last time BP picked a DT or LB before the 3rd round.

I believe that with a premium on one-on-one cover corners like Champ Bailey and Asante Samuel, and a not-so-premium on cover 2 corners plus the history of Jason David that precedes him, Kelvin Hayden will not be as valuable in the free agency market as a free safety like Antoine Bethea will be, IMO. But dollar wise, since top safeties are paid in the $7-8 mil. range and maybe corners like Kelvin Hayden (don't get me wrong, he is too valuable to our system but he is not a shutdown corner or a fast corner by any means) will demand around $5-6 mil. per year like Nathan Vasher and Charles Tillman of the Bears got paid. Dollar wise, we may choose Kelvin Hayden, IMO. So, for insurance, we should look for a free safety first, then a cornerback in later rounds. Plus, we have more depth at safety than CB, so Hayden mostly stays. I just do not see shelling out $10 plus mil. to keep both Hayden and Bethea, that is what I am getting at.

Geo
09-09-2008, 10:22 AM
Perhaps we should take the free agency discussions elsewhere, either to the general thread or a new thread.

This draft class of corners doesn't stand out to me at all, especially from a Colts' perspective. Few look to fit the profile, from the early rankings. We'll see how they pan out over this season, maybe the Colts can look to a prospect from a smaller school.

That's why I was considering Alphonso Smith with the first round pick, even though I wasn't crazy about drafting a corner in the first round as that likely hurts the development of Dante Hughes and Michael Coe. Smith reportedly has the ability, he can make some plays, and he might have the character and smarts to be a first round pick of the Colts (they won't take just anyone in the first round, he's got to be a quality player who can be worth a second contract).

chad72
09-09-2008, 11:17 AM
Perhaps we should take the free agency discussions elsewhere, either to the general thread or a new thread.


Since I feel Bethea will be gone for the reasons I outlined above, I feel a free safety would be our first pick. That was the only reason I discussed free agency of Bethea vs Hayden and its impact on the Colts draft.

Geo
09-09-2008, 11:26 AM
No, it's a good point. Very good point. Although Bethea won't be a free agent until after '09, so maybe the Colts can decide to wait if necessary. Potentially throw a rookie free safety in there to succeed him, as they started Bethea as a rookie from Week One of '06.

indyfan1985
09-09-2008, 05:36 PM
DT in my mind is without a doubt our biggest need going into the 2009 Draft. I would love to see Auburn DT Sen'Derrick Marks in a Colts uni alongside Ed Johnson to create havoc and free up Freeney and Mathis more.

RCAChainGang
09-09-2008, 09:48 PM
I was giving this some thought the last week, and wonder how others feel:

The number one prospect on my Colts' big board is Ohio State cornerback Malcolm Jenkins. A starting duo of Jenkins and Marlin Jackson would be too awesome beyond words. Plus they even have the same initials, those of Michael Jordan - not a coincidence. Jenkins, like Jackson, could offer free safety capability although he might even be better than Jackson in that regard. He won't get near the Colts' first round pick though, just wishful thinking.

I'll put up an early 09 mock in a few days.


When do you think (as of now) Jenkins would go?

Geo
09-10-2008, 12:33 AM
Top 10, Top 15 at least? Jenkins has proven his talent and worth as a player, and that includes an additional senior season which speaks to his commitment to his team and his craft. I expect he'll time well enough to not hurt himself at the Combine. Has free safety capability, as noted before. I can't find a legit fault with Malcolm Jenkins really, which is why I would personally put him #1 on my Big Board for the Colts.

Some other guys are as talented, with a higher ceiling in a few cases, but they also have more questions and concerns.

Geo
09-12-2008, 11:32 AM
I mentioned this in the reg season thread, but it concerns the Draft so I'll post it here.

Runningback-wise for the Colts, I would strongly consider Beanie Wells and CJ Spiller in the first round. Maybe LeSean McCoy if he declares, because I think he might be legit. No to everyone else imo, and that includes Knowshon Moreno. He's coming up on my bust radar, I don't think he is a good fit for the Colts offense and the league in general, physically and mentally. A hunch on my part, it wouldn't surprise me if his character becomes a greater issue than it will be for Darren McFadden. James Davis and Javon Ringer are very good 2nd round picks, but it's not likely worth it for the Colts to get either.

So to recap, imo: only Wells and Spiller, maybe McCoy, but pass on everyone. The Colts are set with Joseph Addai, Mike Hart, and Justin Forsett.

chad72
09-17-2008, 02:37 PM
As far as CB, the guy I like is Kevin Barnes of Maryland, he seems like a playmaker, worth a shot in late round 1 where the Colts hopefully pick:) . I am not sure if the Colts will go with an undersized DE in Shaughnessy of Wisconsin if he is available or maybe Strong Safety Nic Harris of Oklahoma drops to us. BP has never picked a Big 12 guy recently, has he?

I can definitely see the Colts going OT with Alex Boone of Ohio State or Xavier Fulton of Illinois in round 2.

I can see the Colts going DT and Free Safety at rounds 3 and/or 4, Alex Magee of Purdue and David Bruton of Notre Dame come to mind. They can be solid picks at that point.

redviper311
09-17-2008, 03:42 PM
I figured I would throw out there a possible Colt draft for '09, but remember it is really early and alot of things could change between now and then.

Rd 1 - CB Victor "Macho" Harris, 6' 0", 192, VA Tech:
With a question mark whether or not we will be able to retain both Hayden and Jackson, Macho Harris will provide us a solid #2 corner.

Rd 2 - OT Ramon Foster, 6' 6", 325, Tennessee:
can play both LT and RT allowing us to part ways with either Ryan Deim or Charlie Johnson. Not to mention Tennessee has been known to produce great OL-men at the next level.

Rd 3 - DT Will Johnson, 6' 5", 290, Michigan:
There is no question after the sudden retirement of Quinn Pitcock and release of Ed Johnson that our rush defense has suffered. Will Johnson will provide us that NT that can get after the ball and demand the double block.

Rd 4 - DE Kenny Mainor, 6' 4", 241, Troy:
Josh Thomas is not the answer as Robert Mathis back-up. Sure Mainor is better suited as an OLB in a 3-4 scheme, but I really think he could really be scary rushing off the edge in a tampa-two scheme.

Rd 5 - WR Lucas Taylor, 6' 0", 185, Tennessee:
After Marvin Harrison's injury last season he has not seemed the same and seems to have lost a step. Taylor is not talked about much but that is due the fact the Vols are known to run the rock 30 times a game. Taylor is a speedy WR that could learn and eventually replace Harrison in the lineup.

Rd 6 - K Louie Sakoda, 5' 9", 178, Utah:
Let’s face it Adam Vinatieri isn’t getting any younger and has missed key field goals the last two seasons. Time to start looking toward the future.

Rd 7 - DT Paul Griffin, 6' 2", 285, FSU:
at this point just take the BPA.

Now before I get people mad about some of these picks please note I stayed away from any underclassmen since we don't know if they will declare or not. I am a huge Spiller fan out of Clemson and would love to see him in a Colt uni, but that is wishful thinking.

Feedback plz.

chad72
09-17-2008, 03:48 PM
Round 1: Kevin Barnes, CB of Maryland (just watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i26DRXC37fs)

Round 2: Alex Boone of Ohio State or Xavier Fulton of Illinois at OT

Round 3: Alex Magee of Purdue at DT (or given BP's history of 3rd round picks, just give it away for a 4th & 6th round pick :) )

Round 4: David Bruton of Notre Dame at Free Safety

Round 5: Brandon Tate of North Carolina at WR

Round 6: Joe Burnett of Central Florida, a playmaking CB

Round 7: Diyral Briggs of Bowling Green, an undersized DE around 235 lbs, not too fast but fast enough in getting to the QB

indyfan1985
09-18-2008, 01:31 PM
This is what should happen for the Colts in my opinion. These are both realistic options when we pick as well...

1st round- Duke Robinson, OG, Oklahoma (I know this is not the biggest need, but our run blocking as well as pass blocking has just been horrible at times. Part of that is injuries, but part of it is because we dont have one single dominant run blocker on our O-line. Robinson would create some big holes for our RBs to run through not to mention giving Peyton much more time to pass. He is versatile enough to where he could possibly be moved to RT to replace Diem. Diem makes too much money anyways.)
-Alternate options- DeMarcus Granger, DT, Oklahoma, Geno Atkins, DT, Georgia

2nd round- Sen' Derrick Marks, DT, Auburn (He slips a bit because of his size but would be a great fit in a cover 2 style.)

3rd round- DeAngelo Smith, CB, Cincinnatti (Gives us some depth at CB plus either Marlin or Hayden will leave after the 2009 season so we need a possible replacement)

4th round- Best WR available
5th round- Best DT available
6th round- Best QB available
7th round- Best LB available

What do ya think? Please respond with other suggestions on who you think we could/should reasonably get.

redviper311
09-18-2008, 02:53 PM
Round 1: Kevin Barnes, CB of Maryland (just watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i26DRXC37fs)

Round 2: Alex Boone of Ohio State or Xavier Fulton of Illinois at OT

Round 3: Alex Magee of Purdue at DT (or given BP's history of 3rd round picks, just give it away for a 4th & 6th round pick :) )

Round 4: David Bruton of Notre Dame at Free Safety

Round 5: Brandon Tate of North Carolina at WR

Round 6: Joe Burnett of Central Florida, a playmaking CB

Round 7: Diyral Briggs of Bowling Green, an undersized DE around 235 lbs, not too fast but fast enough in getting to the QB

Not a real big fan of CB Kevin Barnes, Maryland. He has made some plays key word being some. If Dante Hughes can get better I think he is better than Barnes.

I like Alex Boone alot, but I donít know if he would be available to us in the second round.

DT Alex Magee, Purdue has looked good at Purdue, but like most Big Ten D-Linemen they tend to slightly be a little slower than I like in a Tampa-Two. Thatís not to say there havenít been exceptions to the rule. The only Big Ten DT I like out of this class is Will Johnson out of Michigan.

WR Brandon Tate, NC not a bad choice, but that if he declared. I personally prefer Lucas Taylor out of Tennessee if I had to choose between the two.


Overall not bad but like anyone out there I have my preferences so donít take any offense to my notes.

Geo
09-18-2008, 03:33 PM
Two great mocks, guys. I really like some of the picks/reasonings, and will mentally keep a note for some of those names listed.

Glad to see there isn't overreaction by having the Colts taking a NT in the first round. Unless Peria Jerry is really special enough, and maybe he might be, I just don't buy the Colts taking a DT that early. The position just has such a bust factor, and the Colts have been burned so much at that position, that they might not be willing to take a DT at that point.

I remember how much I wanted Alan Branch in '07, and the Colts drafted Anthony Gonzalez instead. Talk about a good decision made!

Dam8610
09-18-2008, 07:19 PM
Two great mocks, guys. I really like some of the picks/reasonings, and will mentally keep a note for some of those names listed.

Glad to see there isn't overreaction by having the Colts taking a NT in the first round. Unless Peria Jerry is really special enough, and maybe he might be, I just don't buy the Colts taking a DT that early. The position just has such a bust factor, and the Colts have been burned so much at that position, that they might not be willing to take a DT at that point.

I remember how much I wanted Alan Branch in '07, and the Colts drafted Anthony Gonzalez instead. Talk about a good decision made!

NT is never a need that a Tampa 2 team spends a high pick on, but UT is. I'd like to see some of the following play a little more, to get more of a feel for their styles: Peria Jerry, Vance Walker, Evander Hood, Myron Pryor, Alex Magee (homer pick), Will Johnson, and Terrill Byrd. Some of these guys (Walker in particular) seem to live in the backfield based on the stat sheet. Myron Pryor really impressed me against Louisville, he seemed to live in their backfield in that game. If the Colts can get a penetrator that has the quickness to shoot through the gaps and disrupt the backfield as well as the size to hold/maybe even push his gap against the run on their line, things will start improving for the better on the interior.

Geo
09-19-2008, 12:51 AM
Eh, I think the Colts are okay at 3-tech with Eric Foster and Keyunta Dawson. Maybe one of them can replace Raheem Brock as a versatile tweener, when Brock's best football is behind him (and perhaps that is sooner rather than later).

Mind you, I say okay because obviously the Colts themselves are looking for a 270-lb. 3-tech tackle to play in their defensive scheme. Personally, I would want a 290-ish guy too, but what can you do.

chad72
09-19-2008, 08:24 AM
Not a real big fan of CB Kevin Barnes, Maryland. He has made some plays key word being some. If Dante Hughes can get better I think he is better than Barnes.

I like Alex Boone alot, but I don’t know if he would be available to us in the second round.

DT Alex Magee, Purdue has looked good at Purdue, but like most Big Ten D-Linemen they tend to slightly be a little slower than I like in a Tampa-Two. That’s not to say there haven’t been exceptions to the rule. The only Big Ten DT I like out of this class is Will Johnson out of Michigan.

WR Brandon Tate, NC not a bad choice, but that if he declared. I personally prefer Lucas Taylor out of Tennessee if I had to choose between the two.


Overall not bad but like anyone out there I have my preferences so don’t take any offense to my notes.

Alex Magee, his low 40 time is 4.85 and high 40 time is 5.09 according to the nfl-draft-scout website. He is also a projected round 3-4 pick though I think he might go in the early 3rd, hopefully he stays till the late 3rd just like Quinn Pitcock. I agree that Alex Boone might not last long, that is why I feel we may go for Xavier Fulton at OT from Illinois. Darius Butler of Connecticut, if he falls to us, I will be very happy with him too, he has the speed to play in our system plus he can return kicks too:) .

To be honest, when Polian picks, if he does not have a first rounder value player, I'd say trade for a 2nd, 4th and 6th or something like that.

This 2009 draft class is not filled with first round material DTs, in my opinion. I think it will have a lot of quality offensive linemen, that is the only position I see it being strong and deep in. We can get a real good O-lineman in the second round but a real good defensive back only in the first round.

No offense taken, I like to hear different viewpoints from people all the time.

Geo
09-19-2008, 01:12 PM
Very interesting mock, IF85. I like that you made some picks your own. My thoughts:

This is what should happen for the Colts in my opinion. These are both realistic options when we pick as well...

1st round- Duke Robinson, OG, Oklahoma (I know this is not the biggest need, but our run blocking as well as pass blocking has just been horrible at times. Part of that is injuries, but part of it is because we dont have one single dominant run blocker on our O-line. Robinson would create some big holes for our RBs to run through not to mention giving Peyton much more time to pass. He is versatile enough to where he could possibly be moved to RT to replace Diem. Diem makes too much money anyways.)
-Alternate options- DeMarcus Granger, DT, Oklahoma, Geno Atkins, DT, Georgia

2nd round- Sen' Derrick Marks, DT, Auburn (He slips a bit because of his size but would be a great fit in a cover 2 style.)

3rd round- DeAngelo Smith, CB, Cincinnatti (Gives us some depth at CB plus either Marlin or Hayden will leave after the 2009 season so we need a possible replacement)

4th round- Best WR available
5th round- Best DT available
6th round- Best QB available
7th round- Best LB available

What do ya think? Please respond with other suggestions on who you think we could/should reasonably get.
Not a big fan of the 1st round pick, but first off I dig what you're saying about continuing to build the best Colts' offensive line yet. A line that can run-block proficiently in addition to pass-block very well. I think they are almost there except for right tackle of the future, Diem isn't really looking like a long-term fixture right now (but he doesn't have to be kicked out the door immediately either).

Personally, spending a first round pick on a right guard of all positions seems too much, especially when the Colts will have some capable candidates in house among Mike Pollak, Jamey Richard, Steve Justice, and Charlie Johnson (signed through '09 though).

Re: DeAngelo Smith, honest to goodness he caught eye too when I was looking through Scott's corner rankings/profiles. The Cincy defense does some good things. Smith mostly fits the physical profile, has production along those lines too. Him and the two guys from New Mexico, DeAndre Wright and Glover Quinn.

But I've been thinking about corners, in terms of the Colts drafting, and maybe those aren't the guys. I'll post my thoughts on this very soon.

Not that I'm intently looking at wide receiver, I like the Colts' depth at WR and receiving TEs, but a wide receiver I like is Mike Thomas of Arizona. Short but not small at 5-8/195, per Scott's listed profile at least, and he's been very productive in the Wildcats' spread offense. He brings some things to the table. Now, who knows if he fits the mental and psychological profile of what the Colts look for in a wide receiver. They can't draft just anyone, he has to be a heady player who can do all the little things right for Peyton to depend on him.

chad72
09-19-2008, 01:44 PM
Melvin Bullitt, Giordano and Sanders all are more fit to play strong safety though Sanders is better in coverage than the other two, from what I have seen. Bethea is the best free safety we have had. So, I would go for a free safety like David Bruton of Notre Dame, he plays close to the LOS like Bob Sanders but can play pass too. I do like Brandon Hughes of Oregon State for a late round CB pick and Stryker Sulak of Missouri for a late round DE pick (Sulak lit it up against Illinois).

As far as the Colts WRs, Harrison was 6'0" and came before Manning. Manning's success with Harrison probably had a lot to do with BP picking Wayne who is also 6'0", and Anthony Gonzalez who is 6'0", and Pierre Garcon who is also 6'0".

Harrison - 6'0" - 185 lbs (lightest of all)
Gonzalez - 6'0" - 193 lbs
Wayne - 6'0" - 198 lbs
Garcon - 6'0" - 210 lbs (explains why he can run block so well, he is a bit bigger than all our 6'0" WRs)

That is why I feel Garcon was drafted as a project to replace Marvin's roster spot (cannot replace Marvin and what he did for the Colts, ever) but to give Peyton the same kind of consistency in the near future as far as height and route running.

So, we will not most likely draft anyone shorter than 6'0" dramatically (5'11", I can see the Colts do but not 5'8") as long as BP is there, just throwing it out there:)

Brandon Tate of North Carolina fits that height and route running profile (bulkiest of the choices below), Lucas Taylor of Tennessee does, Johnny Knox of Abilene Christian does, Mike Wallace of Ole Miss does as well (can't coach speed, Mike Wallace has more speed than the above 3).

Regardless, the Colts will not draft a WR unless it is much later in the draft, they are pretty deep if you consider Garcon and Hall as projects in the making.

redviper311
09-19-2008, 02:29 PM
Chad I like the shout out to Lucas Taylor, WR, Tennessee.

IMO I would like to see Roy Hall moved to more of an H-back rather than WR. Hall is listed 6'3"/240lbs, that makes him bigger than Jacob Tamme, TE who is listed at 6'3"/236 and only 10lbs lighter than Dallas Clark who is listed at 250lbs, but I really belive he plays around 240-245lbs. If they got in there and worked with him on blocking he would be a beast.

So back to WR, if we went for a wideout I would think more than likely in the 5th-6th rounds where we would find a Lucas Taylor or a Mike Wallace whom both would would thrive in our system.

Geo
09-19-2008, 03:22 PM
Hall is actually 6-2/230. For whatever unknown reason, the Colts list him at 6-3/240 and even 6-4 once or twice (I swear), LOL.

redviper311
09-19-2008, 04:57 PM
Wow Geo, most sites have him listed around 6'3"/240...lol. I can remember a time when I was listed 5'11"/250lbs playing FB/HB when in reality I was 5'10"/235lbs. I think it is a common practice to list them alittle bigger than they are. Like they have Marvin Harrison listed 6'0"/185lbs and when I meet him in person I thought to myself no way he is 6ft at best he was 5'11" and maybe a buck-seventy at the most.

chad72
09-23-2008, 10:41 AM
What do you think of Nader Abdallah of Ohio State at DT for the Colts? He is 6'4" and 300 lbs and is timed around 5.1-5.2.

Maybe a later round DT pick for the Colts?

Geo
09-23-2008, 11:19 AM
It helps that Terrance Taylor came into this season lighter and slimmer than he's been, but I'm not sure the Colts would draft him early still. I like Taylor so I would be very pleased to see the Colts and their scouts think he can be their guy, but I think there is some question as to how well he fits the Colts' one-gap scheme and their principal goal of being fast.

Let's face it, Tampa 2 NT, that's not really a first round priority. You can wait a bit for that, say around the third round, because the drop-off in talent at that position is worth the differential in draft picks. If you want a guy who can eat up some blocks on first and second down, well the Colts might have their guy in LaJuan Ramsey or some other ~300-pounder.

Granted, the Eagles have the league's best run defense right now, with two 1st round picks inside in Mike Patterson ('05 31st overall) and Brodrick Bunkley ('06 14th overall). Hey I'd love to have both myself, and the Colts might have a guy like Patterson reach their first round picK (more on this in the next post).

Tampa Bay in their heyday had two first round DTs in Warren Sapp and Anthony McFarland, although eventually they decided to not re-sign Sapp in favor of keeping McFarland - who didn't fill the void at 3-tech from a Hall of Famer.

Take the Chicago Bears though, they drafted Dusty Dvoracek in the third round of '06, and then picked up Marcus Harrison in the third round of '08. Signed Anthony Adams, a productive player in San Francisco, as a free agent and picked up Matt Toeaina off the Bengals' practice squad last year. They've built great depth, and their run defense currently reflects it (last year they were beset by injuries).

Now granted, the Colts are unique in wanting a 265/270-lb. undertackle and a 290-lb. nose tackle. I'm not very fond of that as I'm sure many of us fellow Colts posters aren't, but what can you do. Hey, they won a Super Bowl with that.

Geo
09-23-2008, 11:25 AM
1. Sen'Derrick Marks, DT, Auburn

All that said about NT and the Colts, I will say though that I am very interested in Auburn Tigers defensive tackle Sen'Derrick Marks. I think he could play both DT positions for the Colts, he uses good leverage at ~6-1 and a weight of ~290 is something the Colts aim for. He has speed and strength, he would pressure the pocket but also play the run. Watching the LSU @ Auburn game this week, I even saw him being played as a straight NT in a three-man front, used in clear pass rushing situations a few times in the game.

And what I also like is that, while Marks is a redshirt junior, this is his third year as a full-time starter. He started/played 26 consecutive games before '08, Marks has proven himself and has been productive. He's really grabbed my attention, and I know indyfan1985 has been trumpeting him as a pick so I give him kudos.


2. Aaron Curry, OLB, Wake Forest

He plays SLB at Wake, but I am getting a strong Derrick Brooks-vibe from this kid. He has that special knack, a heady player who can read an opposing offense. Might be the future at WLB (or perhaps MLB), if the Colts think he can make that transition. However he is currently being discussed as a Top 20 pick and outside linebackers don't necessarily fall as much as inside linebackers do, I wouldn't be surprised if James Laurinaitis was drafted after Aaron Curry. I like Laurinaitis and would draft him for the Colts, but to me he's not very close to AJ Hawk who was a stud prospect in '06. Or even Patrick Willis for that matter, taken 11th overall in '07.

RCAChainGang
09-24-2008, 03:20 PM
Demetrius Byrd!

He would make a great slot receiver if Marvin were to be in another uniform.

What you guys think?

Geo
09-24-2008, 03:30 PM
I don't know if you agree or not RCA, but I actually like his teammate Brandon Lafell more. He's a junior though.

RCAChainGang
09-24-2008, 03:56 PM
Yeah Lafell has made some key receptions for LSU.

He has made tremendous improvement from his sophmore season where he dropped everything!

I like the roof on him.

Edit: He could come out this year with his success he's having though.

RCAChainGang
09-24-2008, 04:13 PM
Geo could you give me a quick run down on where the colts draft what.

I'm not a big draftguru.

Like I know we don't draft linebackers early. What els do we wait to draft on?

Edit: We don't have a first round do we?

Geo
09-24-2008, 06:11 PM
Not sure what I can contribute, but I guess there are a few things that stick out. Oh and yes, the Colts definitely have their first round pick this year thankfully.

Linebacker
1. The Colts, since Coach Dungy joined the franchise in 2002, have yet to draft a linebacker in the first round or even the second round.

Third round - Gilbert Gardner ('04), Freddy Keiaho ('06), and Philip Wheeler ('08).
Fourth round- David Thorton ('02), Kendyll Pope ('04), and Clint Session ('07)
Fifth round- Kenyon Whiteside ('03) and Tyjuan Hagler ('05)

2. Tyjuan Hagler is a free agent after this season, and both Freddy Keiaho and Gary Brackett are free agents after 2009.

Defensive Tackle
1. The Colts have drafted three defensive tackles on (Old) Day One: Larry Tripplett in the early 2nd ('02), Vincent "Sweet Pea" Burns in the late 3rd ('05), and Quinn Pitcock in the late 3rd ('07). Only Tripplett played through his rookie contract, and even then the best he played was in his contract year as part of the '05 Colts defense.

Not to mention the nuclear disaster that the Corey Simon signing turned out to be, and losing Anthony McFarland (traded for '07 2nd rd pick) to injury before the '07 season started. Hmm, think the Colts feel burned by the DT position?

2. Darrell Reid is a free agent after this season. Raheem Brock will be 31 come June '09, and per Rotoworld his base salaries after this season are 3.205M ('09) and 3.79M ('10). I might consider cutting him this offseason, in the Colts' position.

Defensive back
aka "How the Colts Turned a Weakness Into a Strength":

02 3rd Joseph Jefferson
02 6th James Lewis
03 2nd Mike Doss
03 3rd Donald Strickland
04 2nd Bob Sanders
04 4th Jason David
04 6th Von Hutchins
05 1st Marlin Jackson
05 2nd Kelvin Hayden
05 4th Matt Giordano
06 2nd Tim Jennings
06 6th Antoine Bethea
06 7th TJ Rushing
07 3rd Dante Hughes
07 4th Brannon Condren
07 5th Michael Coe
08 ... no DB!

RCAChainGang
09-24-2008, 11:17 PM
Not sure what I can contribute, but I guess there are a few things that stick out. Oh and yes, the Colts definitely have their first round pick this year thankfully.

Linebacker
1. The Colts, since Coach Dungy joined the franchise in 2002, have yet to draft a linebacker in the first round or even the second round.

Third round - Gilbert Gardner ('04), Freddy Keiaho ('06), and Philip Wheeler ('08).
Fourth round- David Thorton ('02), Kendyll Pope ('04), and Clint Session ('07)
Fifth round- Kenyon Whiteside ('03) and Tyuan Hagler ('05)

2. Tyjuan Hagler is a free agent after this season, and both Freddy Keiaho and Gary Brackett are free agents after 2009.

Defensive Tackle
1. The Colts have drafted three defensive tackles on (Old) Day One: Larry Tripplett in the early 2nd ('02), Vincent "Sweet Pea" Burns in the late 3rd ('05), and Quinn Pitcock in the late 3rd ('07). Only Tripplett played through his rookie contract, and even then the best he played was in his contract year as part of the '05 Colts defense.

Not to mention the nuclear disaster that the Corey Simon signing turned out to be, and losing Anthony McFarland (traded for '07 2nd rd pick) to injury before the '07 season started. Hmm, think the Colts feel burned by the DT position?

2. Darrell Reid is a free agent after this season. Raheem Brock will be 31 come June '09, and per Rotoworld his base salaries after this season are 3.205M ('09) and 3.79M ('10). I might consider cutting him this offseason, in the Colts' position.

Defensive back
aka "How the Colts Turned a Weakness Into a Strength":

02 3rd Joseph Jefferson
02 6th James Lewis
03 2nd Mike Doss
03 3rd Donald Strickland
04 2nd Bob Sanders
04 4th Jason David
04 6th Von Hutchins
05 1st Marlin Jackson
05 2nd Kelvin Hayden
05 4th Matt Giordano
06 2nd Tim Jennings
06 6th Antoine Bethea
06 7th TJ Rushing
07 3rd Dante Hughes
07 4th Brannon Condren
07 5th Michael Coe
08 ... no DB!

Thank you!
That really puts things in perspective!

RCAChainGang
09-24-2008, 11:22 PM
I think Marlon Favorite would be a good pick in this years draft.

He has contributed a lot to LSU's defense. #99 check him out sometime.

Dam8610
09-25-2008, 12:49 AM
I think Marlon Favorite would be a good pick in this years draft.

He has contributed a lot to LSU's defense. #99 check him out sometime.

Didn't he get suspended last year? Or was that Jean-Francois?

RCAChainGang
09-25-2008, 07:16 PM
Didn't he get suspended last year? Or was that Jean-Francois?

No he's not suspended just raping QB's :)

I think he was last year a few games not sure though.

Dam8610
09-25-2008, 07:55 PM
No he's not suspended just raping QB's :)

I think he was last year a few games not sure though.

I was asking about last year...

Seems I'm thinking of Jean-Francois though, Favorite's bio says nothing about being suspended. Looks like Jean-Francois served a year suspension, sounds like a guy to stay away from despite all the talent.

Geo
09-25-2008, 09:15 PM
Jean-Francois played in only two games last year, the SEC Championship Game and the National Championship Game, because of academics. And he played well in both games, even earning Defensive MVP in the NCG.

So it wasn't a suspension from the team because of an off-the-field incident, at least.

RCAChainGang
09-28-2008, 12:55 AM
Jean-Francois played in only two games last year, the SEC Championship Game and the National Championship Game, because of academics. And he played well in both games, even earning Defensive MVP in the NCG.

So it wasn't a suspension from the team because of an off-the-field incident, at least.

So was it a grade problem, missing practice, or something along those lines?

Geo
09-28-2008, 10:49 PM
All I know/read is it was academics.

From what I saw of him this year, I have to say I wasn't highly impressed, but he does some good things for sure. But he's a guy to keep an eye on, maybe his teammate senior NT Charles Alexander could be the guy to keep in the back of your head.

I've been thinking about this actually, and will share it with you guys:

I don't think the Colts are going to draft a 3-tech tackle in college to play NT in the pros. Think about it, Quinn Pitcock and Ed Johnson both played NT in college.

That's just a theory on my part of what they will do. Namely, looking for a college NT around 295 lbs with the motor and first step to play in the defense (again, think how perfect Pitcock was).

Sen'Derrick Marks of Auburn would be stellar, I think he is a stud who can line-up at either tackle spot for the Colts in any situation ... but I am now not expecting him to reach the Colts' first round pick unfortunately. Oh well.

Dam8610
09-28-2008, 11:13 PM
Sen'Derrick Marks of Auburn would be stellar, I think he is a stud who can line-up at either tackle spot for the Colts in any situation ... but I am now not expecting him to reach the Colts' first round pick unfortunately. Oh well.

If he's as good as I've been hearing, it would almost be a waste of his talent to not let him play UT if he was on the Colts.

Anyone else here watched Myron Pryor yet? I've seen two of his three games, and the guy seems to live in the backfield. He's definitely someone I wouldn't mind seeing in a Colts uniform next year.

Geo
09-28-2008, 11:19 PM
With Foster and Dawson on the roster, honestly I'm not as concerned with UT. The Colts are fine there for the time being.

Although the major caveat being that's because the Colts want an UT in that weight range (Brock is there too). I'd want a bigger UT too.

Geo
10-02-2008, 12:12 PM
He's mentioned before that the Colts use the offseason to try and identify the trends that are forming in the league, and build the team for success with that knowledge/analysis.

So I thought this was particularly eye-catching at the top of this week's Polian Corner (http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=article7&news_id=6e0c8e6b-2006-4f6a-a9b1-5b56de1737bf):

Question: You had a chance to watch games involving other NFL teams Sunday, a rarity for you during the season. Any thoughts?

A: I came away with some pretty interesting observations, you might say, in that I think I see our game changing in the National Football League. That was pretty obvious from what I saw Sunday. Now, most of that was NFC, but when you look at our division itís exactly the same way. We have become a power-running, play-action passing, defensive-oriented league, really. Thatís pretty much a sea change from the days of the Greatest Show on Turf and the West Coast offense of Bill Walsh, although they (the San Francisco 49ers) had a great defense to go along with it Ė the exception probably being (the) Dallas (Cowboys) and maybe the (New York) Giants in the sense that theyíre a little more wide-open offense, and of course the (New England) Patriots last year, although they have reverted this year. No one seems to know what the (New York) Jets are right now. They havenít really hit their stride yet, but clearly in the NFC and in our division itís power-running football and defense and kicking game. Not that we canít adjust to it. We can. I donít know if thatís a good trend for the league or not. I guess the fans will tell us.
Wonder if this signals a tweak in the Colts' draft trends, ie. more of an emphasis on defensive line interior and linebackers, after building up the secondary and pass rush.

RCAChainGang
10-02-2008, 04:03 PM
What is a good size and what would a good UT be in characteristics?

Geo already showed me that they deal with only one gap, but what are the key things to look for?

Thanks!

indyfan1985
10-10-2008, 09:49 AM
Here is my updated Colts draft...

1st round(I see us struggling a bit all year so I have us end up with a 9-7 record)
- Sen 'Derrick Marks, DT, Auburn(Measures up at 6-2, 295 pounds. Very comparible to Tommie Harris.)

2nd- Max Unger, OG/T, Oregon(There is no question our O-line has been porous this season and that is partly to do with injuries. We need to get a toughness back to our O-line.)

3rd- Jasper Brinkley, MLB, South Carolina(Even though Brackett is a great leader and captain on this team, his play is not physical enough for an NFL MLB.)

4th- DeAndre Wright, CB, New Mexico(Helps with depth)

5th- Lucas Taylor, WR, Tennessee(Harrison should retire this offseason or take a big pay cut.)

6th- Best DT available

7th- Best QB available

Geo
10-18-2008, 06:26 PM
I don't discount the possibility, although personally I am big on the promise of Roy Hall (if he can stay healthy) and Pierre Garcon. I expect the team to part ways with Marvin Harrison after this season, barring a major restructuring of his contract, so that could leave an opening. Add the talent at TE too though, in Clark, Santi, and Tamme, and I think the Colts are still fine and can do great things in a four-receiver look. But there is a chance and BPA is BPA.

1. I'd scratch off Michael Crabtree and Jeremy Maclin off the list. Those guys are Top 12 picks, from what I've seen and also what I've read. We can only can imagine what it would be like to have Crabtree in the red zone for Peyton, heh.

2. Darius Heyward-Bay seems like a very talented prospect, but I find myself leery in terms of fitting with the Colts. Maryland guys oft are better prospects than actual players, and a skill position in a precise offense likes this demands certain levels of characteristics. Similar deal with Louis Murphy of Florida.

3. Two guys who I do think might measure up, physically, mentally, or otherwise, are Derrick Williams of Penn State and Brian Robiskie of Ohio State. Both guys are around that borderline, early 2nd range.

A. Derrick Williams looks faster this year imo and is doing big things as a receiver - thanks to having a QB again! - and as a return man. Top-notch recruit who came to Penn State. From a physical profile standpoint, per his reported numbers, he fits the mold of Reggie Wayne and Anthony Gonzalez. There's been some concern about how sharp his route running is, but he's looked good from what I have seen.

B. Brian Robiskie on the other hands doesn't fit the profile exactly. Few inches bigger, and more likely to time in over 4.45 (although Ohio State guys are often prepared well). The Colts like more speed ... but he's a very good receiver, a blocker, and the guy just catches touchdowns. Really he does, look at his numbers. There's something to not catching as many balls but scoring many touchdowns, it speaks to his ability to make the most of his role and opportunity. Somewhat similar to a former Buckeyes receiver in Anthony Gonzalez, and this is very important for the Colts as they have to be able to share looks with other players/receivers. Plus Robiskie did average 17 yards per last year which is obviously exceptional, and this season also had a very nice deep touchdown at Southern Cal called back to an offensive holding penalty. Additionally, Academic All-American and son of NFL assistant coach Terry Robiskie.

Geo
10-29-2008, 12:59 PM
Georgie Selvie*
Michael Johnson
Sen'Derrick Marks*
Vince Oghobaase*
James Laurinaitis
DJ Moore*
CJ Spiller*
Fili Moala
Tyson Jackson


I am very high on Selvie because underweight or not, he is a terror on the football field, and I would give him the slight nod over Johnson because of production. Although I covet Johnson to the Colts very strongly, he could be an ideal option to rotate with Freeney and Mathis and work alongside them in some capacity. I think joining the Colts could help Johnson produce more to the level of talent and potential.

It may surprise some to see those two DEs at the top of my list, but BPA is key imo and those two additionally play the most premium position. Yes, the Colts have Marcus Howard waiting in the wings, and also maybe Curtis Johnson. However Josh Thomas is a free agent after '08 and Raheem Brock doesn't seem to be the pass rusher he once was, so the rotation might welcome one more and the Colts need to then get creative on pass rushing downs. Perhaps experiment with Howard or maybe Mathis as a blitzing SLB, and/or lining up a DE-heavy DL on nickel downs and aim to stop the potential run on the way to the quarterback. Although in pass rushing situations the Colts already have Brock and Dawson rushing from the interior anyways, so that's not as marked a difference as it would be for some other teams.

Then comes my two first round defensive tackles in Marks and Oghobaase, both juniors. I give Marks the slight edge for having been a three-year starter at Auburn. Although, like Johnson earlier, the size of Oghobaase at 6' 6" and 305-310 lbs is especially enticing. He would be a very welcome sight for the Colts' interior, even though Oghobaase isn't devoid of pass rush ability. Part of me thinks the DT issue for the Colts might be overblown, and that in general there is a very dangerous bust factor for first round defensive tackles that might be best avoided, but you have to consider it I suppose.

At this point this becomes rather fluid, guys can move up or down.

Colts usually don't go linebacker this early, and Laurinaitis isn't a thumper like Urlacher. Still, he can drop back and play some coverage with the best of them, so Tampa 2 MLB seems to be a very good fit for him. Or perhaps WLB of the future, depending on what happens with Brackett/Keiaho/Session/Wheeler. The Colts are more likely to wait until later on in the Draft for a LB as normal procedure, but I can't say I know much about the LB class and Laurinaitis seems to hit every note for a Colts' first round pick given his production, talent, character, leadership, and level of competition.

DJ Moore offers great potential at CB and probably FS too, depending on how things go with Marlin Jackson and Kelvin Hayden. One of them is bound to be re-signed, I think, although I truly hope both are. Alphonso Smith and Darius Butler are other CBs in possible consideration, but I didn't list them to keep the list as short as possible.

Spiller hits the Polian formula to a tee and is a fantastic talent, and if you think about it, would actually touch the ball much more than a first-round burner receiver like Jeremy Maclin would. He would have time to be groomed as Addai's successor ... however, Addai still has two years after '08 and Chad Simpson is looking good, maybe Dom Rhodes re-signs to stay in Indy plus there's Mike Hart who I am big on. So I'd rather pass on RB, even though the rare opportunity at a talent like Spiller is worth some consideration.

Then comes two more defensive linemen in Moala and Jackson, who I am thinking as a 4-3 DT for the Colts. I've come around on Moala, although still very cautiously. Not entirely sure he checks out as a Colts' pick. Like CB, I could probably add Peria Jerry and Terrance Taylor afterwards as potential picks.

Top 12 guys like Malcolm Jenkins, Michael Crabtree, Jeremy Maclin, Brian Orakpo, Aaron Curry, and Beanie Wells excluded. As are the offensive tackles, Tony Ugoh is the franchise left tackle and you don't draft a RT in the first round unless you're Matt Millen.

Sorry about the lengthy post, I thought some explanation might be wanted.

Dam8610
10-29-2008, 09:36 PM
Not bad, Geo, just one thing I disagree on: how is Brian Orakpo not anywhere near the top of your list? He's just as much of a terror off the edge as anyone in this draft, and he's got the strength to move people as well. IMO he's the BPA for the Colts right now.

Geo
10-29-2008, 10:06 PM
My bad, I forgot to put him in with the Top 12 guys I mentioned at the end. I think Orakpo will be the first DE off the board, he's earned himself top status imo. I'll be surprised if the Colts have a shot at him, but certainly I too like him and would like to add him to the team.

MaxV
11-10-2008, 12:11 PM
Watching the Iowa-PSU game (painful finish for me), I came away VERY impressed with these 2 DTs.

As you guys may already know, I am very high on Jared Odrick. At 6'-5" 300lbs with very good quickness and strength, he has the tools to be a 1st rounder. He has been excellent this year and may enter the draft after the season. Equally good vs. the run as well as in pass-rush, he would a great addition to the Colts. Many might believe that he is better off as a 3-4 DE, but he is currently playing in the 1-gap system that is similar to ours, and is doing a great job.

I have to admit, I've been skeptical of Mitch King prior to this game. Iowa fans on this board have been talking him up as if he's the best DL in the country, while Scott views him as a marginal prospect. After watching the game, I can honestly say that I REALLY want the Colts to draft him. This guy is UNBLOCKABLE. His motor never stops and he plays with as much intensity late in the 4th quarter as he does at the beggining of the game. He went up against one of the best OGs in the Big 10 in Rich Ornberger and absolutely abused him. This guys LIVES in the backfield. Scott currently lists him at 267, I think he's closer to 275lbs. Don't let his size fool you, he's VERY powerful. He plays exceptionally well vs. the run. RBs constantly have to make extra cuts in the backfield to avoid him. He's a very good pass-rusher as well. I think he would be a great fit for our system. Many scouts may view him as "great college player, with limited NFL upside", which will probably drop him to Day 2 and I believe he can be a steal.

Dam8610
11-10-2008, 12:18 PM
Mitch King sounds a lot like Eric Foster, but the Colts already have Eric Foster.

As for Odrick, if you had to rank him with Sen'Derrick Marks and Gerald McCoy, where would he rank?

MaxV
11-10-2008, 12:54 PM
I haven't seen enough of McCoy and Marks to make the comparison.

As far as comparing King to Foster, I think it's fairly accurate, although I think King could be even better.

Geo
11-11-2008, 07:23 PM
I have become very impressed with Florida State junior defensive end Everette Brown. This guy has serious potential, and might be the perfect guy to succeed Raheem Brock as the rotational LDE who slides inside to DT on pass rushing downs. He's now on my big board for sure, and could leapfrog Selvie and Johnson at the top even, although we'll see if he declares.

Not that I think Raheem Brock will get cut this offseason, it's probably more likely that the team releases him after '09. I'll explain why sometime soon. Still, Brown as a rookie could initially rotate with Freeney (Josh Thomas is a FA this offseason).

Also, I really dug your player mentions, Max. Honestly I was wary of King given his lighter weight, the Colts kind of have that down as we all know, but if he can play and has the tenacious motor, the team just might have another good player to bring to the team. The Penn State tackle intrigues me a great deal as well, as you said they run a similar defense to the Colts.

MaxV
11-12-2008, 03:52 PM
I think it's time to post our needs list:

1. DT - I think we can play with the DTs that we currently have on our roster. Foster could very well be more productive in the future, if he received playing time at UT. This new guy, Anthony Johnson, might be an answer at NT. Daniel Muir and Keyunta Dawson are solid. Still, I've been saying this for several years now, our defense could be GREAT with an all-around DT. Historically speaking, Pollian doesn't address this position early in the draft, but perhaps he will this year.

2. OG - It might be a bit too early, but so far I'm unimpressed with Mike Pollak. Jaime Richard and Charlie Johnson aren't the long-term answer. Perhaps one of the rookies might still take over Saturday's spot. I think we need to adress this position. Run-blocking has been extremely poor this year.

3. RT - Ryan Diem has been a very good player for the Colts for a long time, but I'm afraid his time might be up. Right now he looks much slower. As a result he often jumps too early or gets called for holding penalties. I believe that we should look for a replacement, preferably one who is equally good at pass- and run-blocking.

4. DB - This one is a bit unclear. Kelvin Heydan, Marlin Jackson and Antoine Bethea are all FAs over the next 2 years and it's unlikely that we'll resign all 3. I like Melvin Bullitt. He can be a good replacement for Bethea, although I don't think he compliments Sanders are much as Antoine. Our backup CBs can play also, but all of them are more suited for nickelback probably.

5. RB - For the record, I like the RBs that are currently on the roster and I wouldn't be upset if we left this position alone. Still, part of me wants to find an explosive one. The kind that can take it the distance on occasion.

Geo
11-17-2008, 03:16 PM
4. DB - This one is a bit unclear. Kelvin Heydan, Marlin Jackson and Antoine Bethea are all FAs over the next 2 years and it's unlikely that we'll resign all 3. I like Melvin Bullitt. He can be a good replacement for Bethea, although I don't think he compliments Sanders are much as Antoine. Our backup CBs can play also, but all of them are more suited for nickelback probably.
The first part really nails it. What the team decides to do over the next two years wrt Marlin and Kelvin will likely determine what they might do in terms of corners and the Draft. If the team can re-sign both to good contracts for both the team and the players, because they are playing in a zone defense for the Colts, this is the ideal situation and would have the Colts drafting later for future depth - like how they picked up Michael Coe in '07.

I'm fine with Bethea playing out his rookie contract the next two years, and then leaving in free agency.

Keiwan Ratliff, I'm curious as to see what happens with him too.

Geo
11-17-2008, 03:30 PM
- I'm cooling off on Sen' Derrick Marks. Maybe the ankle injury or whatever is was from a few weeks ago is still bothering him, but he's not looking as good as he did against LSU. I wouldn't spend a first round pick on the guy right now, no thanks. Just because you spend a first round pick on a guy doesn't make him Warren Sapp or Kevin Williams.

I'm not so sure I wouldn't draft fellow SEC junior Geno Atkins of Georgia over Marks, actually.


- So that leaves Vince Oghobaase as the only defensive tackle I might value as a first round pick. Haven't seen much of anything on the guy, he better be the Richard Seymour of 4-3 DTs imo. Otherwise ...


- I'm somewhat cooling off on Southern Cal DT Fili Moala too. ESPN's scouting report is dead-on imo that, although Moala has a stellar first step, he doesn't finish afterwards as a pass rusher. (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=24471) Also, I remembered how much of a bust Shaun Cody turned out for the Lions (second round pick in '05). Yikes.

Still, I might consider Moala in the late 2nd or better yet the 3rd round. He has promise, last week he blasted past the offensive guard and made a sack on third down, I saw.


- I don't want to draft a defensive tackle until the 5th round at the earliest. Preferably have two of the last three picks be DTs. That may sound crazy to some, I get it.

I think Washington had it right a few years ago when they took Anthony Montgomery and Kedric Golston, in the 5th and 6th rounds. Too bad Minnesota alum Coach Dungy didn't catch Montgomery.

Geo
11-26-2008, 09:48 PM
For those wondering why I've talked up Fili Moala, check out this little highlight clip on youtube of him against Cal (keep in mind the top-notch center prospect Alex Mack):

KVG1U26YMeY

RCAChainGang
11-27-2008, 04:21 PM
For those wondering why I've talked up Fili Moala, check out this little highlight clip on youtube of him against Cal (keep in mind the top-notch center prospect Alex Mack):

KVG1U26YMeY

Yeah he looks pretty awesome in the pass rush. Not always making the plays but forcing bad passes and blowing up plays. He looks very good in pass rush.

Geo
11-27-2008, 04:33 PM
Exactly why his numbers are misleading a bit, he doesn't get the statistics but does a very good job in their one-gap defense at Southern Cal.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-01-2008, 07:18 PM
And then you watch Alex Mack's highlights from that game, where he matched up mostly with Moala, and you see the bad...

C2BwXgt09fw

fischbowl
12-01-2008, 07:21 PM
What do you all think of Ricky Jean-Francois if he declares?

Geo
12-01-2008, 08:13 PM
And then you watch Alex Mack's highlights from that game, where he matched up mostly with Moala, and you see the bad...
Not too bad imo. As we touched on earlier, beyond the natural ability in his agility and first step, he still has some ways to go as a pass rusher.

What do you all think of Ricky Jean-Francois if he declares?
I would gladly pass in the first three rounds, personally. Tyson Jackson I might consider, but I'm not completely sure even he is explosive enough for the Colts. Well, maybe as a full-time DT he probably would ... but what's the point of drafting him early if he can't play LDE and slide inside on pass rushing downs?

MaxV
12-01-2008, 08:28 PM
NO MORE Centers. PLEASE.

I want a good, pass-rushing DT.

Paranoidmoonduck
12-01-2008, 08:31 PM
Not too bad imo. As we touched on earlier, beyond the natural ability in his agility and first step, he still has some ways to go as a pass rusher.

That game definitely went to Mack. The only time I can remember Moala beating Mack, Mack raced him to the edge and took him down before he could do any real damage. And despite Moala's first step, he was blown off the ball more often than not, which is a bad sign when matching up against a center.

Moala has potential and I think he'd be a decent pick in the late 2nd round, but he's only a good player theoretically right now.

Geo
12-02-2008, 02:11 PM
I very much wanted to avoid Dre Moore last year, but would be willing to draft Fili Moala in the 2nd or 3rd round this year.

Moving on to another position:

Wide receiver

If Marvin Harrison and his agent don't agree to a major paycut to stay at least one more year, I can't see how the Colts don't cut him this offseason. It's beyond financially irresponsible if they continue as is.

Should they release him, the team is very likely to bring a fifth receiver into the fold. Maybe they aim for a relatively cheap veteran on the market, to step in and see some snaps immediately if youngsters Roy Hall and Piere Garcon aren't ready, however we know the Colts' strategy in free agency doesn't extend much past signing their own good players.

We can discuss some FA options in another thread, but some early-round guys that are catching my eye right now:

*Knowing the Colts, they are probably likely to not risk it and take a receiver sooner rather than later. See Addai in '06, Gonzalez in '07, Pollak in '08, etcetera. At least a late first round pick means a good five-year rookie contract. Even though it's kind of frustrating that they can't give Peyton anything less than a first round skill position player, but with this year/class BPA could very well be the case if the right guy is there.

Also, I wouldn't mind them drafting another receiver in the second half of the Draft, to bring in extra competition for everyone like they did with interior offensive lineman last year with Pollak/Justice/Richard. Marques Colston was actually the second wide receiver drafted by the Saints in the '06 Draft, they took a guy in the 4th round I think it was. ;)

Jeremy Maclin, Missouri
I think this is a slam dunk if Maclin somehow reaches their pick. I don't think he will however. Round 1.

Darrius Heyward-Bey, Maryland
It would not surprise me if the Colts draft DHB, I have a gut feeling they (read: Polian) will fall in love with his speed without penalty in size. If the guy is smart enough that is. But after he runs sub-4.4, I'm not sure he reaches their pick either. Round 1.

Derrick Williams, Penn State
Very similar to Eddie Royal last year, not being ultra-productive as a receiver playing alonside two other productive college receivers and some poor QB play in a run/option heavy offense. Both guys offer strong special teams ability as well. But who knows if Williams will turn out as well as Royal has for the Broncos, that remains to be seen, but I suspect both Royal and Donnie Avery were much higher on the Colts' draft board than some would believe. Williams is listed at 6-0/195, essentially the Colts' prototype. Character and intelligence could be a plus for him, relative to what the class may offer. Just might sneak into the late first round, with the 4.3something 40-time and the Colts' not wanting to risk losing him before their 2nd round pick. Round 2.

Jarrett Dilliard, Rice
A monster of a producer and reportedly has a 42-plus inch vertical leap, but some (Scott included) gauge his speed around 4.55 - that will (unfortunately) disqualify him immediately for the Colts. If he can run faster though, he might then be in play in the second or third round. Round 2-3.

Sammie Stroughter, Oregon State
Very shifty and productive as both a receiver and punt return man. Had a very difficult junior season, well documented, but seems to have bounced back very well this season. Round 3.

Mike Wallace, Ole Miss
Might be a little more iffy in terms of fitting the profile, but Wallace could fit the bill as a deep threat. Started off the season almost non-existant under the new Houston Nutt regime, but eventually worked himself into the offense and the coaches' gameplans - first by bugging his coaches until they let him handle kickoff returns, where he was very productive - to be utilized as the threat he can be. Finished the year 35-704-6 as a receiver and 31-770-1 as a kickoff return man. Round 4.

Brian Hartline, Ohio State
There's recent word Hartline might declare for the Draft. I like him a great deal for the Colts, not sure about his timed speed but we'll eventually find out about that. Round 4-5.

MaxV
12-02-2008, 03:35 PM
I'm a big PSU and Derrick Williams fan, but I wouldn't draft him before 3rd round.

He's a project.

I actually wouldn't mind if Colts drafted the other PSU WR, Deon Butler, in later rounds.

He's small (5'-10" 170), but very fast, runs good routes and catches everything.

Geo
12-02-2008, 08:58 PM
If Bill Polian's comments on DeSean Jackson and his draft history are any indication, he's not drafting any 170-lb. receiver.

Sammie Stroughter, first team Pac-10 All-Academic selection, (http://www.pac-10.org/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/120208aab.html) btw. Maybe former NFL coach and Oregon State head coach Mike Riley putting in a great word for him hold some weight, like former NFL coach and Arizona State head coach Dennis Erickson with Mike Pollak last year.

MaxV
12-06-2008, 01:28 PM
It's time for my first mock draft. I know it's a bit too early, but I would like to give it a shot.

1. Jason Smith (OT) Baylor - Very talented OT prospect that plays for mediocre team. Very good pass-blocker and run-blocks well for his size as well. He can be either a LT or a RT. With Ryan Diem declining, we might need a replacement soon. Smith is already ready.

2. Vance Walker (DT) Georgia Tech - We need a DT who can be a disruptor both in run-defense as well as pass-rush. This guy can be just that. Our 1-gap system is ideal for his skills.

3. Sherrod Martin (CB) Troy - I like this guy. He's fast, athletic and reacts to the ball very well. If we lose either Hayden or Jackson, he would be a good replacement.

4. Mitch King (DE/DT) Iowa - I've already made it clear that I like this guy quiet a bit. He won the PSU game almost by himself. This guy lives in the backfield. He can play either as a DT or DE. Perfect fit for a 1-gap system. Very underrated DL prospect imo.

5. Dorell Scott (DT) Clemson - We need a NT and this guy could be a good one. He has Day 1 caliber physical tools, but hasn't lived up to his potential in college. Perhaps, he can still develop into a good one with the Colts. He has the potential to be very productive player in the NFL.

6. Marcus Thigpen (RB/KR) Indiana - One of the fastest players in this draft. He plays for a TERRIBLE team, which hurts his numbers, but his upside is significant. As a RB, he doesn't break many tackles, but he has the ability to break a big one on occasion. Could be a great kick-returner. Who knows, maybe if he gains more bulk, he could be a good TB as well.

7. Deon Butler (WR) Penn State - Ok, it's time for me to plug a player from my favorite college team. Homerism aside, I honestly think that Butler is a very underrated WR prospect. He is small (5'-10" 170), but that's about the only weakness he has. Fast, explosive, great route-runner and great hands, he can be a productive NFL WR.

Dam8610
12-06-2008, 03:45 PM
What is a good size and what would a good UT be in characteristics?

Geo already showed me that they deal with only one gap, but what are the key things to look for?

Thanks!

Size: In a Tampa 2, the UT (also sometimes called a 3-tech, because he usually plays the 3 technique) is ideally going to be ~6'0"-6'2" and ~290-300.

Characteristics: A good 3-tech is a disruptor. He usually either gets double teamed or gets into the backfield and either applies pressure to the QB, stops the run for a loss, or redirects a running play somewhere else. If someone says a DT "gets a lot of penetration", "shoots gaps", or "lives in the opponent's backfield", that would be someone to watch. A DT is said to "shoot a gap" when he quickly beats his man to a gap and gets into the backfield as a result.

Hope that helps.

Geo
12-06-2008, 04:05 PM
It's time for my first mock draft. I know it's a bit too early, but I would like to give it a shot.
Hmm, 3 DTs enough? :D J/k, I really like this mock, awesome job Max.

Re: Smith, out of curiousity, are you not completely sold on Tony Ugoh? Because I am personally, but I know/see some Colts' fans don't fully share the sentiment. And Smith might be the long-term answer if that is the case. I am a believer in Ugoh though, he's the franchise LT imo.

Thigpen is a guy who has really been on my mind as well, him and also Kory Sheets who Dam has noted at least once. IF the Colts go RB, they already have Addai/Hart/Simpson and could re-sign Rhodes or maybe another veteran on the open market (Edge? Fred Taylor?). Thigpen is a good fit though as a more speedy back, sort of a Darren Sproles-type.

If I were making a Colts mock, King would very likely be there. Although I think the Colts can wait until later to get him, there's a good chance his weight will scare off some teams like Eric Foster last year. I might even wait to the 7th round or even UDFA to get him, the Colts can chance it when they have Foster and Dawson imo.

Scott might not be quick enough, although the Colts have brought in two bigger guys in Muir and Johnson who are around 6-3/310, which Scott profiles around. But maybe they can draft Vance Walker's teammate Darryl Richard in the 4th, and then take King later on.

I wouldn't mind if the Colts draft two receivers this year, if they don't sign anyone in FA, like how they brought in talent in interior lineman in the 08 Draft. Make it a competition between Roy Hall, Pierre Garcon, Sam Giguere, and the two draft picks. Best three make the roster, and at least probably goes to the practice squad.

LonghornsLegend
12-06-2008, 05:26 PM
I wouldn't mind if the Colts draft two receivers this year, if they don't sign anyone in FA, like how they brought in talent in interior lineman in the 08 Draft. Make it a competition between Roy Hall, Pierre Garcon, Sam Giguere, and the two draft picks. Best three make the roster, and at least probably goes to the practice squad.

I was going to ask you about this but I see it's already in discussion, with this being said how do you see Gonzalez' role playing out? Do you want to address WR early to develop as a #2 and keep him in the slot, or has he shown enough to play opposite Wayne? I can't figure out how the Colts feel about him or where they want him to ideally line up.

Dam8610
12-06-2008, 05:27 PM
I'm going to do 3 different scenarios for the first couple of rounds (aka new Day 1), with the other rounds being selected as normal. If you'd like, tell me which one you like best or think is most realistic, these are just some ideas I've had floating around in my head:

Day 1:

Scenario 1:

1) DT Sen'Derrick Marks, Auburn - Marks would be a good fit for the Colts defense, at 6'2" 296, he's done pretty much anything asked of him by his coaches, including playing DE in his early years at Auburn and playing 3-4 NT in some fronts on passing downs. He's as close to the ideal 3-tech as it gets in this draft IMO, and would be a welcome addition to the Colts DT rotation.

2) DE Larry English, Northern Illinois - I look at this as a BPA selection, and I honestly thought of putting Michael Johnson here, as I feel he could end up falling come draft day. I like Larry English though, he's a pass rusher and a good one, and could help to spell Freeney and Mathis, and maybe finally get rid of Josh Thomas. He seems to have the speed and athleticism the Colts look for, and from what I've seen, he also has that nonstop motor most teams look for in a DE.

Scenario 2:

1) DE Brian Orakpo, Texas - This is clearly a case of BPA, the Colts really don't have any need for DE, as they arguably have 2 of the best 3 DEs in the AFC, but if a special player like Orakpo is available, you almost have to take him. Orakpo would offer the Colts much more versatility, not to mention the ability to constantly have an excellent pass rush threat on the field. I doubt he'll be available when the Colts pick, but if he is, I doubt the Colts pass him up.

2) DT Vance Walker, Georgia Tech - Georgia Tech has an excellent DL, possibly the best in all of College Football. Along that DL, they have at least four, and potentially up to six future Day 1 picks IMO, and Walker is one of them. He rarely gets blocked out of a play, usually at least holds his point, and at times can get into the backfield and disrupt or redirect the play. He's not going to disrupt a ton of plays for you, but more importantly, he's rarely going to be the cause of a negative play, and that's a large improvement over the DT play the Colts have gotten for most of this season.

Scenario 3:

1) S William Moore, Missouri - Again, this is a case of BPA, but in a small way, also a need. The Colts have 3 expiring contracts in their secondary in the next 2 years, and they're either going to have to replace or re-sign those players. With this selection, my hope is they would re-sign Hayden (which they should anyway IMO), let Bethea play out his contract, and use 2009 to evaluate whether or not they should re-sign Marlin Jackson (he played great in 2007, then became a liability in 2008, IMO more time is needed to determine whether or not he's worth bringing back). Also, I think Moore could play either S position for the Colts, and it couldn't hurt to have a better backup plan than Melvin Bullitt for Bob, just in case he can't stay healthy yet again.

2) DT Vance Walker, Georgia Tech - See above

Obviously it's pretty clear that I feel the Colts need to address the DT position early in the draft. I also feel it needs to be addressed often, as IMO the Colts defense was at its best under Tony Dungy in 2005, when the Colts regularly rotated 3 players into the UT position (Montae Reagor, Larry Tripplett, Raheem Brock), as well as the NT position (Corey Simon, Larry Tripplett, Montae Reagor). As of now, I feel the Colts have a backup UT (Eric Foster), a potential starting NT (Antonio Johnson), and a rotational backup DT (Darrell Reid, aka Mr. Versatility) on the roster, and could use a starting UT (which I addressed above), a starting NT (which I will address), and another rotational DT (which I will also address). The other picks above are generally BPA, with William Moore serving the purpose of helping to clear up the messy situation that will be the contract status of the secondary in the coming years. So, without further ado, here's the rest:

Day 2:

3) DT Darryl Richard, Georgia Tech - Too early to go DT again? Maybe, but I really like the tandem of Richard and Walker at Georgia Tech, and if he's available here (which I doubt, IMO he could be a Day 1 pick), I'd really like him to be a Colt. I see him as a rotational DT, someone who could play UT or NT depending on the situation, but someone who could be a very effective starter/player for the defense.

4) WR Manuel Johnson, Oklahoma - I don't get what's not to like about this guy, he's fast, he runs good routes, he catches almost everything thrown to him, and he can break a long one. I definitely would not mind seeing him in a Colts uniform next season. I could also see going OT here, though I don't know who I'd like here at this point.

5) DT Myron Pryor, Kentucky - Okay, so 5 picks, 3 DTs, I wonder if anyone is sensing a pattern here, or what I think is the team's biggest need? Everything I've seen of Myron Pryor this year I've liked, and I honestly believe that if Pryor went to a school like Florida, Ohio State, or USC, he'd be considered a potential Day 1 pick, but because he goes to Kentucky, he's not regarded as highly. That said, all Pryor does is make plays, draw doubles, and/or disrupt backfields, he even did an excellent job matched up on highly regarded C prospect Johnathan Luigs earlier this season, getting push or doubled on most plays. At 6'1" 300 (he's listed at 310 by Kentucky, and I think he's closer to that), he would be an excellent fit at NT for the Colts IMO.

5 comp) RB Kory Sheets, Purdue - Is this a bit of a homer pick? Undoubtedly, but I really think this guy could start in the NFL. As a backup, he'd provide pretty much everything the Colts would ask for from a RB, that being hard running (including play breaking ability), good hands out of the backfield, and the ability to stay in and block if necessary. He's the total package and I believe would be an excellent backup to replace Dominic Rhodes should the Colts decide to go a different direction for next season. The comp pick is my estimation of what the Colts will get for Jake Scott, who has started every game for the 11-1 Titans.

6) OT Jose Valdez, Arkansas - A big athletic OT to give Diem and/or Johnson some competition for RT. Why not at this point?

7) DT Mike Neal, Purdue - Am I going overboard on the DTs and Purdue players? Probably, but I really like what Neal brings to the table, and in the 7th round, what does it really matter? I believe that games are won in the trenches, and quite frankly, I feel the Colts need a huge upgrade at DT to be the best unit they can be defensively, so I really would not mind at all if the Colts brought in 4 DTs. The more competition, the better IMO, that way we know whoever emerges will be at the very least a good unit.

Dam8610
12-06-2008, 05:31 PM
I was going to ask you about this but I see it's already in discussion, with this being said how do you see Gonzalez' role playing out? Do you want to address WR early to develop as a #2 and keep him in the slot, or has he shown enough to play opposite Wayne? I can't figure out how the Colts feel about him or where they want him to ideally line up.

Gonzo looks to be developing into a player who could play opposite Reggie in a #2 role, or could stay in the slot. Personally, I'd like to see the Colts give Pierre Garcon a chance (at flanker or slot) before they go drafting another receiver early. If they're going to address any offensive position early, it should be TE IMO, the Colts haven't really had a great 2 TE set since Marcus Pollard left, yet they tend to often line up in 2 TE sets. If the #2 TE is going to have such a big role in the offense, a little more investment there wouldn't hurt.

Geo
12-06-2008, 05:45 PM
I was going to ask you about this but I see it's already in discussion, with this being said how do you see Gonzalez' role playing out? Do you want to address WR early to develop as a #2 and keep him in the slot, or has he shown enough to play opposite Wayne? I can't figure out how the Colts feel about him or where they want him to ideally line up.
You know, a lot of it depends on the Colts.

It wouldn't surprise me if Polian looks very specifically for a speedster/deep threat to replace some of what Harrison once brought to the offense, even if the offense can still produce with receivers who are just quick enough and exceptional route runners - like Reggie Wayne and Anthony Gonzalez. If anything, Harrison has been bigger as a possession guy and route runner the last few years, but I seriously doubt the Colts will draft a 4.5-something receiver. Mike Hart was a rare case last year and worth it, but no way do I see Polian doing the same at WR.

And a quick guy with football IQ and the right character isn't easy to find, especially if you draft late in any round like the Colts have been the last numbers of years. And look to do the same this year. They really can't afford to wait on some guys, so they have to draft them a bit early or see them off the board when their next pick comes. Look at how many receivers were off the board before their 2nd round pick last year, and that was without any first round receivers taken.

And there could very well be a BPA who is a WR in this class who reaches their first round pick, like Gonzalez in '06. Plus keep in mind that first round picks are signed to five-year contracts and wide receivers, if you hit, can be worth a second contract - which justified using a first round pick in the first place. They have a longer shelf-life on average compared to some other positions.

In regards to what are you're getting at LL, imo the Colts are fine on the field with Wayne/Gonzalez/Clark and either a second TE or a third WR. They need to draft a fifth receiver if they cut Harrison and don't sign anyone in free agency (I wouldn't rule this possibility out), even if it's just for depth purposes. Gonzalez as the #2 receiver is more than fine by me, but the Colts' path to success in the division/conference/league is through Peyton Manning and the passing game, so going three-wide plus Clark is big for that reason.

If Harrison takes a major paycut like he should if he wants to stay, then that would prevent them going WR early, I think. For this year, at least.

Geo
12-06-2008, 05:53 PM
5 comp) RB Kory Sheets, Purdue - Is this a bit of a homer pick? Undoubtedly, but I really think this guy could start in the NFL. As a backup, he'd provide pretty much everything the Colts would ask for from a RB, that being hard running (including play breaking ability), good hands out of the backfield, and the ability to stay in and block if necessary. He's the total package and I believe would be an excellent backup to Dominic Rhodes should the Colts decide to go a different direction for next season. The comp pick is my estimation of what the Colts will get for Jake Scott, who has started every game for the 11-1 Titans.
You're right Dam, Sheets is a guy to keep an eye on. Both he and Thigpen could be real good mid/late rounds picks for whoever gets them, and might fit the Colts. Although your hatred of Mike Hart makes baby angels cry. :D

I just want to say that, after crunching some numbers and doing some research, I would project a fourth round compensatory pick for the Colts (for Jake Scott). But I could be wrong obviously and it's better to go in with lesser expectations anyways.

Geo
12-06-2008, 06:06 PM
Gonzo looks to be developing into a player who could play opposite Reggie in a #2 role, or could stay in the slot. Personally, I'd like to see the Colts give Pierre Garcon a chance (at flanker or slot) before they go drafting another receiver early. If they're going to address any offensive position early, it should be TE IMO, the Colts haven't really had a great 2 TE set since Marcus Pollard left, yet they tend to often line up in 2 TE sets. If the #2 TE is going to have such a big role in the offense, a little more investment there wouldn't hurt.
Gijon Robinson has heart, but he has NO QUICKNESS whatsoever.

I am a believer in Tom Santi as a guy who can develop into the #2 TE, who can block and receive proficiently. Jacob Tamme might be a good guy to throw out there on passing downs, not sure how well he will develop as a pass (run?) blocker.

Plus there's the guy the Colts signed off the Titans' practce squad, maybe he enters the fray.

If Jermaine Gresham reaches the Colts' pick, that would be incredibly interesting though. He is Antonio Gates 2.0 imo, he has that potential and ability. Would be intriguing to have Wayne/Gonzo/Clark/Gresham, those four could line up all around the field and confuse the daylights out of defenses.

Dam8610
12-06-2008, 06:14 PM
You're right Dam, Sheets is a guy to keep an eye on. Both he and Thigpen could be real good mid/late rounds picks for whoever gets them, and might fit the Colts. Although your hatred of Mike Hart makes baby angels cry. :D

I just want to say that, after crunching some numbers and doing some research, I would project a fourth round compensatory pick for the Colts (for Jake Scott). But I could be wrong obviously and it's better to go in with lesser expectations anyways.

I really think Kory Sheets could start for some NFL team (and be a good starter), I REALLY would not want to see him land on the Texans, as they're pretty much the only team in the division that doesn't have 2 solid backs that they can use in rotation (IMO Ahman Green is on his last leg). As for Hart, I don't hate him, I just had a hard time seeing him succeed in the NFL, and admittedly was quite vehement in defense of my position on the issue. That said, in his limited PT this season, he did quite a bit to win me over, especially with the pure will he displayed on that 3rd and 1 carry against the Ravens where he would not let Haloti Ngata bring him down for no gain and got the yard needed. That's a play most RBs can't/don't make, I was extremely impressed by that. I'm really not one that can be convinced to "ignore the numbers" as most seemed to want to do with Hart after the draft, and most of the numbers regarding Hart trend strongly to an unsuccessful RB, but if he's only used as a short yardage/change of pace kind of guy, I could see him being successful if he can stay healthy. Interesting related read here (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/27/sports/football/27score.html).

As for the comp pick, I just went low end of what I thought. I think the Colts COULD wind up with a 4th, as you're projecting, but I don't think it could be lower than a 5th, considering Scott signed a decent sized contract and has started all of their games this season.

I was hoping for some feedback overall on the whole mock I put up...any thoughts you (or anyone else) care to add there?

Geo
12-06-2008, 06:20 PM
I think Hart will bring what Rhodes currently brings, a trustworthy pass protector and receiver (not a jackpot guy though), and runs hard but likely with even better vision. And won't fumble, like Rhodes thankfully is this season (go Dom) as opposed to the rest of his career.

Honestly, I could see the team letting Rhodes sign elsewhere if he gets more money from another team. Which opens the door for Hart, or ...

Not to go into free agency here, but it's almost guaranteed that the Cardinals cut Edgerrin James this offseason. And the Jags might do the same with Fred Taylor. Could be interesting if the Colts set up a "reverse" bidding war among those three veterans and maybe more, although the franchise's modus operandi is to get younger than older.

Geo
12-06-2008, 06:31 PM
I was hoping for some feedback overall on the whole mock I put up...any thoughts you (or anyone else) care to add there?
Oh I dug it, those Georgia Tech tackles seem like a really good fit.

Everyone and their grandmothers are projecting Marks to the Colts, which is sort of interesting. I wouldn't be disappointed if that happens, Marks is a good fit and if he works out, could really help out the linebackers and defensive backs. Obviously every division rival is going to try and run the ball against the Colts. Still, I'm sort of at the point where I have to see it to believe it, you know?

There are a few draftniks I've seen (including one I put some stock in, Lance Zerlein of the Houston Chronicle) who say Orakpo is in the 20s range. Very interesting. I would definitely love to have, to replace Raheem Brock who I honestly can't recall making one big play this season so far.

Johnson and Iglesias, the two receivers at Oklahoma, interest me. Although Oklahoma is a bust factory imo, so I'm incredibly wary of them, Gresham, and the rest of their prospects. But both the WRs seem like they can play ...

Dig the Myron Pryor pick. Perfect example of what the team could do drafting some depth tackles in the mid/late rounds.

Dam8610
12-06-2008, 06:46 PM
Gijon Robinson has heart, but he has NO QUICKNESS whatsoever.

I am a believer in Tom Santi as a guy who can develop into the #2 TE, who can block and receive proficiently. Jacob Tamme might be a good guy to throw out there on passing downs, not sure how well he will develop as a pass (run?) blocker.

Plus there's the guy the Colts signed off the Titans' practce squad, maybe he enters the fray.

If Jermaine Gresham reaches the Colts' pick, that would be incredibly interesting though. He is Antonio Gates 2.0 imo, he has that potential and ability. Would be intriguing to have Wayne/Gonzo/Clark/Gresham, those four could line up all around the field and confuse the daylights out of defenses.

Gresham was actually the guy I was thinking of, maybe Coffman if he can run a decent time, but mainly Gresham, he seems to have an all around game that the Colts haven't really had at TE since Ken Dilger left (though IMO Gresham has more talent and ability than Dilger). Regardless, given how much the Colts use 2 TE, it really makes sense to invest in a second good TE. Short of that, I'd say the Colts should start shifting to more 3 WR, as they've started to do this season. I still think Marvin can be an effective WR (I really think the struggles both he and Manning have had this season are due at least in part to injury problems), but the more weapons Manning has the better IMO, provided of course that the defense isn't in shambles.

I think Hart will bring what Rhodes currently brings, a trustworthy pass protector and receiver (not a jackpot guy though), and runs hard but likely with even better vision. And won't fumble, like Rhodes thankfully is this season (go Dom) as opposed to the rest of his career.

Honestly, I could see the team letting Rhodes sign elsewhere if he gets more money from another team. Which opens the door for Hart, or ...

Not to go into free agency here, but it's almost guaranteed that the Cardinals cut Edgerrin James this offseason. And the Jags might do the same with Fred Taylor. Could be interesting if the Colts set up a "reverse" bidding war among those three veterans and maybe more, although the franchise's modus operandi is to get younger than older.

I would absolutely love to see Edgerrin James return and tandem with Joseph Addai in the Colts backfield, but I don't know if the Colts would be willing to pay him the kind of money he'd want to keep playing, and I think he might be just as likely to retire as he is to return. I just realized I made a typo in my mock, I meant to say Sheets would be replacing Dominic Rhodes as a backup, not backing Rhodes up (I fixed it in the post), so my backfield would be: Addai/Sheets/Hart/Simpson with all 4 on the team and Simpson as the KR. I really like that group, as IMO they all bring something slightly different to the table, but all can do just about anything the Colts would ask of them at the RB spot.

LonghornsLegend
12-06-2008, 06:49 PM
Thanks for the info on WR guys, much appreciated.



There are a few draftniks I've seen (including one I put some stock in, Lance Zerlein of the Houston Chronicle) who say Orakpo is in the 20s range. Very interesting. I would definitely love to have, to replace Raheem Brock who I honestly can't recall making one big play this season so far.

I know guys have been listing him as top 5, but realistically I think the injury concerns could push him back to the teens, high or low depending on what is on the board...Once you get to that 20 pick he's close to, if not the bpa at that point, but I LOVE his fit as a Cover 2 end, he would be worth moving up 5 or so spots if he was around but I don't think that's Polian's style.

Geo
12-06-2008, 06:55 PM
I wonder if Polian as a GM has ever traded up in the first round. My guess would be no.

I know he hasn't with the Colts, and honestly doesn't even trade that much. Polian is pretty much a stay put kind of guy, he even admits it himself. He even turned down the New Orleans' Ricky Williams deal in '99, I believe.

My hunch is that the Colts did call about trading up to get Laurence Maroney, but opted to just keep their picks and take Addai (or Jones-Drew if Addai was off the board) instead. Especially if the other team on the line was the Kansas City Chiefs at #20, because Carl Peterson can be a dumbass when he asks for a return.

I doubt we'll ever see Polian give up a current pick for a better future pick, like the Patriots are so savvy in doing. He's so much more likely to be fleeced than fleece, when it comes to picks and contracts, honestly. It is what it is, thankfully he's great at leading talent evaluation in the draft.

Dam8610
12-06-2008, 07:03 PM
Oh I dug it, those Georgia Tech tackles seem like a really good fit.

I would really like either on the team, even moreso if the Colts could manage to get both, since they already have some idea of how to work together, which is often an undervalued ability that can be an asset IMO. I also hope the Colts bring in at least 3 DTs, because I really feel this defense (scheme or unit) is at its best with a strong DT rotation, as evidenced by the 16 sacks from UT in 2005.

Everyone and their grandmothers are projecting Marks to the Colts, which is sort of interesting. I wouldn't be disappointed if that happens, Marks is a good fit and if he works out, could really help out the linebackers and defensive backs. Obviously every division rival is going to try and run the ball against the Colts. Still, I'm sort of at the point where I have to see it to believe it, you know?

To be honest, I would give the Colts Gerald McCoy over Sen'Derrick Marks were he available, but I just don't see him declaring for this draft. I know Marks is the vanilla pick that everyone has right now, and I know the Colts usually tend to go against the grain of the common consensus, but if Marks is sitting there when the Colts are on the clock, I don't see how they pass him up, he's the 3-tech the Colts have been searching for since Tony Dungy got here IMO.

There are a few draftniks I've seen (including one I put some stock in, Lance Zerlein of the Houston Chronicle) who say Orakpo is in the 20s range. Very interesting. I would definitely love to have, to replace Raheem Brock who I honestly can't recall making one big play this season so far.

Of course if Orakpo is sitting there, he would also make an interesting pick, and would certainly offer some versatility and flexibility to the defense. If it came down to Orakpo vs. Marks, I really don't know which I'd rather have, but I do know that either way, the Colts would be coming away with an improved defense.

Johnson and Iglesias, the two receivers at Oklahoma, interest me. Although Oklahoma is a bust factory imo, so I'm incredibly wary of them, Gresham, and the rest of their prospects. But both the WRs seem like they can play ...

In round 4, I really can't see what's not to like about Johnson, he actually reminds me in some ways of Steve Smith, though not quite as dynamic. I don't know why he's not more highly rated, maybe he times slower than he plays, or, as you say here, teams are scared off because of Oklahoma's history. I really think he'd be a great pick in that spot though. Very low risk/high reward.

Dig the Myron Pryor pick. Perfect example of what the team could do drafting some depth tackles in the mid/late rounds.

I <3 Myron Pryor, he has unbelievable athleticism for a man of his size, and he never quits on a play. I would absolutely love it if he were the starting NT for the Colts next year.

Thanks for the input.

Geo
12-06-2008, 07:07 PM
Of course if Orakpo is sitting there, he would also make an interesting pick, and would certainly offer some versatility and flexibility to the defense. If it came down to Orakpo vs. Marks, I really don't know which I'd rather have, but I do know that either way, the Colts would be coming away with an improved defense.
I would definitely go DE over DT in the first round myself, because I feel a DE is more likely to be more productive and healthy than a DT would.

If I could get a Kevin Williams, sure I'll give up a first round pick for him or a player just like him. But DT seems like the hardest position on defense to project, and how many other Kevin Williams have we seen since?

This isn't really a draft note per se, but am I the only one who still wants to get John McCargo? Of course the asking price would be less now in a trade, or hopefully the Bills cut him outright and the Colts can still get him.

Dam8610
12-06-2008, 07:16 PM
This isn't really a draft note per se, but am I the only one who still wants to get John McCargo? Of course the asking price would be less now in a trade, or hopefully the Bills cut him outright and the Colts can still get him.

If he could pass the physical, absolutely, sign him up. The Colts need as much help at DT as they can get right now, especially in the size department. Obviously the Colts don't want HUGE DTs like Jamal Williams, but I'll take as many 6'0"-6'2" 290-310 NFL caliber guys as the Colts can get for next year. Well, up to 5, I really doubt the Colts would carry even 6 DTs, even if they were all clones of Warren Sapp or Kevin Williams.

MaxV
12-07-2008, 10:39 AM
I would love to get Marks as well, but I'm afraid he might not be there when we pick.

This is a mediocre DT class and Marks could shoot up to the top of the rankings as soon as he declares.

As far as TE goes, I don't want to draft one early. We've invested quiet a bit in Tamme and Santi, let's see if they can develop.

On offense, the only need I see (other then depth at certain positions) is OL. Diem will need to be replaced soon and I hope it's not Charlie Johnson.

I agree completely that DT is our biggest need. Foster is solid, but I doubt he'll ever be a dominant UT. I can live with Johnson at NT, but I prefer more pass-rush from that position as well. I'm not a big fan of Dawson, though I wouldn't be against having him as a backup.

Dam8610
12-14-2008, 09:00 AM
Just wondering how you guys think we (UKfan & I) did in the forum mock, since (barring an unexpected trade) it's pretty much over for us.

Indianapolis Colts Forum Mock Roster (http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1368080&postcount=28)

Our Reasoning:
First, I'd like to say that we tried very hard to jump Tampa and grab Marks, but teams were asking for pick 68 to move up from 27 to 25 or 24, we just didn't feel it was worth it. We ended up grabbing Jerry to fulfill the same need. On the trades, we felt McCargo and Johnson would help the DT rotation immensely, especially for what we gave up, Brackett is the defensive captain, but he's signed through 2010, and other than Brackett, every LB on the Colts roster was drafted or signed (UDFA) within the last 4 years, we felt the value we got for him (high 3rd) was too good to pass up, and we traded up to grab George Selvie, who we felt was great value at the time and would bolster the pass rush in the DE rotation, instead of Josh Thomas and Raheem Brock spelling Freeney and Mathis, George Selvie and Marcus Howard would spell them. We feel we really bolstered the DL, especially at DT. I can't speak for UKfan on this part (most of the above we had discussed before or during the mock), but had it gone all 7 rounds, I would have wanted to draft a #2 RB (we actually tried to make a trade to get back into round 2 and grab Spiller), a project WR (likely #4 or 5 to start), a DB (CB or S, maybe both), and a OL.

So, how do you think we did?

Geo
12-14-2008, 09:28 AM
Pick #68 to move up a few spots in the first? That seems too much to me too, a fourth or hopefully a 5th should get it done. I've actually been thinking about this potential move by the Colts, will get to it in my next post.

Given the choice between the two, I'd take Peria Jerry and #68 over Sen'Derrick Marks as well, even though Jerry's durability is a bit of a concern (sort of similar to Addai and the 06 Class of RBs, I guess).

You guys did some interesting and creative stuff, I checked it out.

Would a pass-rushing line of Howard-Freeney-Selvie-Mathis be too insane to think about? :p

MaxV
12-14-2008, 09:28 AM
Great job guys, except for the Gary Brackett trade. I don't understand that one.

Geo
12-14-2008, 10:18 AM
I've always thought the answer would be no, that Maclin is a Top 15 guy who would be well off the board ... yet I'm looking at the current Draft order, and now wonder if there could actually be a good chance.

I'll rate chances as: yes, probably, maybe, probably not, no. And if there's two options, it's more the first but in good range with the second.

Top 10
1. DET no
2. CIN no
3. SEA probably not/maybe
4. STL probably not/maybe
5. KC no
6. OAK maybe, if Al Davis sees Maclin as the next Tim Brown
7. JAX probably, unfortunately it looks like the Jags might be able to get him, unless they choose to address another position. WR is their weakest spot on the roster, although they have some unknowns in Porter and Walker they might stick with. And it might be high for Maclin?
8. CLE probably not
9. SF probably/maybe, don't forget Miami drafted Teddy Ginn with the 9th overall pick in '07
10. GB no

11-20
11. SD probably not/maybe
12. BUF no
13. HOU no
14. CHI maybe
15. WAS no
16. NO no
17. PHI probably not
18. MIA probably not
19. NE no/probably not
20. ATL no

21-32
21. DEN no
22. NYJ maybe
23. ARI probably not, unless Boldin is traded?
24. DET (f/DAL) no
25. MIN maybe, they just signed Bernard Berrian and have Sidney Rice
26. TB yes, even though they drafted speedster Dexter Jackson last year
27. IND yes
28. BAL yes, they need a future starter opposite Mark Clayton
29. PHI (f/CAR) probably
30. PIT probably not
31. NYG probably/maybe
32. TEN yes/probably

The teams that could use him are drafting in the Top 10 (maybe too high?) and then the second-half or so of the playoff teams, so maybe there's a shot. And the latter could all be trying to trade up, perhaps.

If he falls to Minnesota's pick, or maybe even Detroit from Dallas ... as the Colts, I would very likely get on the phone with that team and hope they bite on my initial offer of a 5th round pick to trade 1st round picks. Although it's more likely a 4th round pick will get it done, and I would be okay with that.

If the choice is Juaquin Iglesias & a 4th round pick, or Jeremy Maclin, I'll take Maclin. Especially if the Colts get a 4th round compensatory pick for Jake Scott like I think they might.

What do you think? Go for Maclin? Too much being made about a third receiver (not counting Clark) for Peyton?

Dam8610
12-14-2008, 10:22 AM
Pick #68 to move up a few spots in the first? That seems too much to me too, a fourth or hopefully a 5th should get it done. I've actually been thinking about this potential move by the Colts, will get to it in my next post.

Given the choice between the two, I'd take Peria Jerry and #68 over Sen'Derrick Marks as well, even though Jerry's durability is a bit of a concern (sort of similar to Addai and the 06 Class of RBs, I guess).

You guys did some interesting and creative stuff, I checked it out.

Would a pass-rushing line of Howard-Freeney-Selvie-Mathis be too insane to think about? :p

Ha, we were actually thinking along the same lines, but I was thinking more of an "aces" type of package like this:

Mathis-Freeney-Jerry-Selvie, with Wheeler as a blitz backer if you wanted him to be. As for trying to trade up there, we were trying to get one of Detroit or Minnesota to take Houston's 4, but both of them devalued 4s due to the mock only lasting 3 rounds.

Great job guys, except for the Gary Brackett trade. I don't understand that one.

Brackett is signed through 2010, we got the value of the #72 overall pick for him (we actually got the #68 overall pick, but traded a 4th for a 6th in the process). The reason? Brackett is getting older (I think he's about 30 now), Keiaho can play the MIKE, so can Wheeler if need be, and the Colts cycle through LBs pretty often. I honestly think that Wheeler-Keiaho-Session would be the best starting group the Colts have had in the Dungy era.

Race for the Heisman
12-14-2008, 11:07 AM
Just as a probe, what would you think about the Colts picking Tebow? Doesn't have to be in the first, could be in the second since he'll probably fall, but he'd be in a perfect situation with time to mature and learn behind one of the game's best.

Dam8610
12-14-2008, 12:52 PM
Just as a probe, what would you think about the Colts picking Tebow? Doesn't have to be in the first, could be in the second since he'll probably fall, but he'd be in a perfect situation with time to mature and learn behind one of the game's best.

No. Just no.

Geo
12-15-2008, 01:00 AM
In and of the idea itself, I'd love to have Tebow backing up Peyton.

But to spend a late second round pick on him just seems a bit much, that pick can produce a player who could contribute much more. If it's the third round pick, I'd probably go for it although he might not last until the late third.

Though, in theoretically drafting Tebow this April, he could play through his rookie contract before Peyton's career is over. That's a sticking point for sure in the whole thing.

Geo
12-18-2008, 11:35 PM
Earlier today I was thinking the Colts might draft Rutgers WR Kenny Britt in the first round. Although he is much bigger (listed at 6-4/215 and probably a little less than that) than their usual receiver, he plays just like a Colts receiver imo. He needs to run 4.5 sharp or under for that to happen, I think he would and that he's a stud prospect overall.

But seeing how well the offense played today focusing primarily on Wayne/Clark/Gonzo (we should make up a nickname for this trio) plus Gijon and the RBs, they can probably pick up a guy later on even if it's in the 2nd or 3rd round instead.

So focus on defense, then? That would seem the better move, especially after tonight.

Geo
12-29-2008, 01:33 PM
I think Pierre Garcon and Roy Hall are good and promising enough such that the Colts can definitely wait until the 2nd or 3rd round to draft a receiver. Maybe even the 4th round if they think a guy they like will last that long. I would say Garcon is the leading candidate to enter the starting line-up, once there is an opening, the guy has so much promise as a receiver and he rocks as a run-blocker.

But chances are one of the first three picks will be a wide receiver nonetheless, unless Marvin Harrison takes a major paycut to stick around or the Colts sign a cheap veteran (Bobby Engram of the Seattle Seahawks imo). Bringing competition in is good, plus keeping five receivers on the roster is good thinking with Gonzalez and Hall having dealt with some injuries the last two years.

One of the first three picks a WR, and the other two can be used to help strengthen the defense.

Dam8610
12-30-2008, 06:55 PM
If the Colts are going to draft a WR in Round 2 or 3, Marko Mitchell is someone I wouldn't mind them looking at. Manuel Johnson as well. Both are deceptively quick, run good routes, make defenders miss, and make the tough catches most of the time.

Geo
12-30-2008, 08:50 PM
I wish I saw more of the Maryland/Nevada game today, to keep an eye on Mitchell. Haven't seen him, but he seems very interesting. Bigger guy with good speed, if that is what Polian is aiming for. Surprisingly productive given that he plays on a run-strong team.

He'll play at the East/West Shrine Game, so they'll get an extra look at him.

Geo
12-31-2008, 12:24 PM
Auburn DT Sen'Derrick Marks declared yesterday, good for the Colts.

Especially as I'm wondering, if he comes is shorter and lighter than expected, just maybe he might be available for them in the 2nd round. As a junior, he won't participate in the Senior Bowl and the whole week of practices/interviews, to have a chance at impressing some teams and improving his stock like Trevor Laws did. Marks didn't have an eye-popping season statistically and dealt with a hurt ankle (similar to Addai).

Or at least, that would be an ideal scenario. I would love to get Marks with the 2nd round pick.

The last two or three years, we've seen around four DTs taken in the first two rounds. We need three guys to be taken before Marks, and there's already BJ Raji and Peria Jerry so let's hope another guy or two can step up and help keep Marks available.

Dam8610
12-31-2008, 05:35 PM
I wish I saw more of the Maryland/Nevada game today, to keep an eye on Mitchell. Haven't seen him, but he seems very interesting. Bigger guy with good speed, if that is what Polian is aiming for. Surprisingly productive given that he plays on a run-strong team.

He'll play at the East/West Shrine Game, so they'll get an extra look at him.

I watched the game, Mitchell stood out in a big way. If he performs as well as he did in his Bowl game in the Shrine game, he's going to improve his draft stock.

Geo
12-31-2008, 06:01 PM
Someone who caught my eye today, so far at least, is Houston DE Phillip Hunt. He is now on my radar, I wouldn't at all mind the Colts picking him up in the mid-rounds.

Very productive DE, he's gotten better each year culminating in becoming Conference USA Defensive Player of the Year this season. He's going to get knocked for his size, likely between 6-0 to 6-1 and 250 to 260, but that works for the Colts (and maybe some 3-4 defenses, unfortunately). With that size and an okay 40 time, maybe the team can pick him up in the late 5th like they did with Marcus Howard last year.

neko4
01-02-2009, 07:23 PM
Hey just seeing if anyone would like to join the new Forum Mock.
Right now one person has signed up to be the GM of Colts and there is also an expansion team in this forum mock. So go check it out. Signups are scheduled to end Sunday night.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28445

Geo
01-02-2009, 07:40 PM
The more I think about it, the more I'm okay with the idea of drafting Ole Miss DT Peria Jerry with the Colts' 1st round pick. That is, if Jerry reaches the pick.

Every division rival for the Colts wants to run the ball and will do so, so if Jerry can help stop the run but - and this is very important - also provide a very potent pass-rushing presence from the interior, I would definitely like that addition. He seems like a perfect fit for a one-gap penetrating defense as the Colts have, looking beastly at times this season. Especially as the season has wore on and he's become healthier from his preseason knee injury. I'm a little concerned about his durability, he has a history of being nicked up and that affects his explosiveness, still credit to him for playing injured at times and being highly productive the last two years.

The one caveat is if the Colts' coaching staff thinks they can make Antonio Johnson a better pass rusher, because then he's perfect. But that might be asking for too much, I think slight improvement is possible but you can't magically change a guy. As it is though, he's a better run-stuffer who helps improve the situation for his teammates around/behind him. They've worked with Daniel Muir all season, and he's shown some real improvement as a pass rusher very recently, so maybe the same can happen with AJ.

But the pass rush inside could definitely get better, and one might say needs to get better. The regular season sack and QB pressure numbers, per Colts.com (http://www.colts.com/sub.cfm?page=stats):

Raheem Brock 3.5-8
Keyunta Dawson 0-3
Eric Foster 0-6
Dwight Freeney 10.5-33
Marcus Howard 1.5-3
Antonio Johnson 0-1
Curtis Johnson 1-0
Robert Mathis 11.5-16
Daniel Muir 0-2
Darrell Reid 2-0
Josh Thomas 0-5

Obviously looking at that, Freeney and Mathis are worth their big money, and the DTs don't have numbers to show for their effort. And if the Colts want to get through the AFC in years to come, a potent pass rush all along the line would be very helpful in helping them get past the divisional opponents, the New Englands, San Diegos, and so on.

IndyColtScout
01-03-2009, 01:23 AM
I want James Davis. I doubt Rhodes stays after this year. Also, no one is a stud behind Addai. Heck, I have my doubt about Addai sometimes. Either way, Davis is a great pick for multiple reasons. New toy for Manning, adds RB depth, Davis is used to 2 back system already, can be a returner, very versatile. Obviously, my dream scenario is an obviously trade down to around early-mid 40's while picking up a pick on the side. Makes a lot of sense to me.

2nd rounder is a DT selection to me. I think we keep Johnson and Muir as NT. Brock, Foster, Dawson will all see time at UT. I think we need another NT. Tarrence Taylor isn't a John Randle. He plays a lot like Antonio and has the build/game we look for in a NT. I see him as a Booger type of NT for the Colts.


After that I think OL, DE, WR, TE, LB, DB any could be picked but thats how I rank them as a need.

woodnick
01-03-2009, 11:39 AM
Hey guys, theres a forum mock thats being set up if anybody is interested. There are still something like 12 GM spots available if people are interested.

For people that haven't participated in a forum mock in the past they should check it out, they are tons of fun.

Sign-up deadline is tonight, so try to hurry.


http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/...t=28445&page=3

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
01-03-2009, 10:43 PM
After watching the playoff game, going after a LeSean McCoy or Knowshon Moreno in the 1st would be a good idea, if not i think runningback in the 2nd is a must

MaxV
01-03-2009, 11:19 PM
It's not RBs fault, it's the O-Line.

We can't have this O-Line next year. I've been saying this the whole season, our O-Line SUCKS.

Geo
01-03-2009, 11:25 PM
It's hard to entirely blame the OL, when the Colts don't run behind the left side of the OL. Tony Ugoh and Charlie Johnson? Nah, forget those superior lineman, let's go with Dan Federkeil and Ryan Diem.

I couldn't fathom it if I didn't see it with my own eyes, all freaking season. We have an offensive coordinator who refuses to run behind the superior side of the OL, and tonight didn't dial up a single run outside either.

Playing the San Diego Chargers, of all teams.

I mean, I don't even know what to say to that.

Geo
01-04-2009, 12:11 AM
Here it is, not really in specific order although I guess close to:

WR Percy Harvin, Florida
WR Darrius Heyward-Bey, Maryland
I have a feeling Harvin and/or Heyward-Bey could be high on the Colts' big board if they test like we expect them to, because my hunch about Bill Polian is that he'll look to replace a departing Marvin Harrison with a first round speedster. Although the Colts usually go for much more productive guys than Heyward-Bey, and don't go for transitional prospects like Harvin until late in the Draft. If another top receiver tests well at the Combine, like say a Hakeem Nicks or Kenny Britt, they could easily be here too. Guys to consider afterwards: Derrick Williams, Juaquin Iglesias, Marko Mitchell, Mike Wallace, Quan Cosby, and Brandon Tate. Although, again, I expect Polian to draft a WR in his first two picks, and maybe not even reach the second pick to do that.

CB Alphonso Smith, Wake Forest
He might reach the Colts' pick, because of his height and some junior CBs declaring. I think Kelvin Hayden will be re-signed, I hope so and I hope Marlin Jackson will be re-signed after next year, but right now I don't know that. I only know that, even if Hayden is re-signed this offseason, that Jackson, Tim Jennings, and TJ Rushing are all UFAs after '09. And that Smith is a total steal in terms of talent, you'd be hard-pressed to find better value. Although I've given him a slight bump downwards as there looks a lot of good CB prospects the Colts could look to in Rounds 2-3 and maybe afterwards, if they address that position.

LB James Laurinaitis, Ohio State
Eh, Colts are probably unlikely to go linebacker early, but worth considering if Laurinaitis is there and Brackett isn't re-signed after '09. The team needs a good player in the middle, Keiaho (also a UFA after '09) shows flashes but isn't good enough overall. Session and Wheeler can man the outside positions. Colts are probably more likely to pick up a mid-round guy however.


Thoughts

DT- I removed Peria Jerry from my Big Board. The durability concerns were one thing, but Scott additionally pointed out that he'll be 25 years old before the season even starts. Even if he stays healthy for his 5-year rookie contract, he won't be worth a second contract at the age of 30. No thanks then, too bad because he looks to be a great fit I think.

But let's just hope the Colts can land another good DT later on. Obviously, Sen'Derrick Marks in the 2nd round would be awesome, although I'm very worried about Tampa (or another team but Tampa especially) snatching him up before the Colts can get him. Darryl Richard, a great NT pick for the Colts, could be there in the 4th round even.

If Gerald McCoy could reach the Colts' 1st round pick, I'd draft him. However I don't expect him to reach the Colts' 1st round pick or even get very close to, so that is why he's not on the Big Board.


RB- If both talented youngsters LeSean McCoy or CJ Spiller should declare for the Draft, just maybe they reach this pick? One would assume Wells and Moreno to be off the board already. I think I'd still have to pass, unless maybe Harvin and Heyward-Bey are both off the board and there's no other BPA.

Joseph Addai is getting overly crushed by Colts fans this season/offseason imo, he's still a very good starter, plus all these juniors and redshirt sophomores coming out means some underrated seniors could be available for the Colts in the next few rounds. Javon Ringer would be absolutely perfect, if only he could reach the Colts' 3rd round pick. I also like Glenn Coffee of Alabama a lot, although he might not fit the Colts as well as some other guys.

Number 10
01-05-2009, 11:06 AM
Not sure if you guys heard, but Gerald McRath declared from Southern Miss.

You probably aren't familiar with him but he is THE poster boy for Cover 2 MLB. I like Brackett but I think the position can be upgraded for you guys. He reminds me of Mike Peterson when he was healthy. Physical player that flies to the ball, can blitz as good as any ILB in this draft, and gets deep in coverage. Natural athlete. Two time Conference USA Defensive Player of the Year. Read up on him, I think he is a great fit for you guys. Possibly even in the 1st round.

Dam8610
01-05-2009, 11:48 AM
It's not RBs fault, it's the O-Line.

We can't have this O-Line next year. I've been saying this the whole season, our O-Line SUCKS.

Ryan Lilja's return and another full preseason for the young interior OLs that were just drafted (including a first full preseason for Mike Pollak, who was injured for most of this season's training camp) will do wonders for the OL IMO. Also, I hate to say it, but replacing Jeff Saturday could turn out to have a very positive impact. Saturday may be a leader, but Jamey Richard played quite a bit at C this season, and played fairly well there, plus his best football is ahead of him, whereas it's starting to look like Saturday's best football is behind him.

bigbluedefense
01-05-2009, 01:23 PM
Here it is, not really in specific order although I guess close to:

CB Alphonso Smith, Wake Forest
He might reach the Colts' pick, because of his height and some junior CBs declaring. I think Kelvin Hayden will be re-signed, I hope so and I hope Marlin Jackson will be re-signed after next year, but right now I don't know that. I only know that, even if Hayden is re-signed this offseason, that Jackson, Tim Jennings, and TJ Rushing are all UFAs after '09. And that Smith is a total steal in terms of talent, you'd be hard-pressed to find better value.

DT Peria Jerry, Ole Miss
Probably the only DT I would consider in the first round, unless maybe McCoy from Oklahoma declares although to be honest, I think I might still take Jerry over him. Jerry can help stop the run and also pressure the passer, he'd very likely give the Colts their best DT since Anthony McFarland in the '06 playoffs.

WR Darrius Heyward-Bey, Maryland
I have a feeling Heyward-Bey could be higher on the Colts' big board, because my hunch about Bill Polian is that he'll look to replace a departing Marvin Harrison with a first round speedster. Real gut feeling. Although the Colts usually go for much more productive guys than Heyward-Bey. And myself personally, I think I'd rather go Jarrett Dillard (Rice) in the 2nd or Mike Wallace (Ole Miss) in the 3rd. Kenny Britt of Rutgers is a definite consideration if the Colts are willing to sacrifice some speed for size and more immediate route running.

LB James Laurinaitis, Ohio State
Eh, Colts are probably unlikely to go linebacker early, but worth considering if Laurinaitis is there and Brackett isn't re-signed after '09. The team needs a good player in the middle, Keiaho (also a UFA after '09) shows flashes but isn't good enough overall. Session and Wheeler can man the outside positions. Colts are probably more likely to pick up a mid-round guy however.

I think that's probably it. I'd love to consider CJ Spiller, he's the only RB in this range who might add more than Joseph Addai normally would, but I don't think RB is an issue myself. Others may/do feel differently after this season, granted.

Im surprised you have no offensive linemen in your big board Geo. I think Alex Mack is a perfect fit and you guys can probably use several linemen. I think that was the biggest issue on your team this year.

Also, I think a solid SS is necessary too. The position is so vital to your defense, and since Sanders is always hurt, having quality depth there is necessary. I like William Moore.

As for Peria Jerry, after watching the bowl game, I no longer think he's a round 1 grade. He lacks strength, and will get bullied in the NFL. He's a great disruptor, but his bullrush is very weak and he can't disengage when locked up bc he lacks strength.

He's not as good as Trevor Laws, and Laws was a 2nd rounder.

Geo
01-05-2009, 01:50 PM
I wouldn't mind Alex Mack, if he's the guy the Colts want at center. But I'm (still) a believer that the Colts definitely have a center in the future among '08 draft picks in Mike Pollak, Steve Justice, and Jamey Richard. I absolutely do.

Pollak started 13 games as a rookie, most (or all) at right guard. While his run-blocking still needs work, his pass blocking - considering he was a rookie -was pretty darn good. Near exceptional given the circumstances. And with his athleticism, he's going to be a great pulling guard, maybe the best the Colts have ever had in the Manning era.

But if the Colts want to pull the trigger on Mack, I wouldn't dislike the pick. It's a key position. Especially if he can help improve the interior run-blocking, truth be told I'd say Jeff Saturday has already started his decline.

*****

As for RT, I probably wouldn't draft one with a 1st round pick. Although with this year's class, maybe it's more of a consideration. Or maybe the Colts aren't believers in Tony Ugoh at LT, although I am personally.

I definitely wouldn't draft a guard in the 1st round, though. So that's primarily why I don't target any OL in the 1st.

*****

I'm not crazy about William Moore. Never saw it about the guy. But I've never spent a whole lot of attention to him, so I could have easily missed it I suppose.

Melvin Bullitt is a really good young player who has played in the absence of Bob Sanders. I'd definitely go with him, although getting a ballhawk FS who is a solid tackler would be great. We thought for a while in '07 we might have had that in Bethea, but he's not.

Michael Griffin for the Titans, he'd be perfect. Perfect. I'd spend a first round pick on him, but there isn't a guy like that this year.

*****

Interesting thoughts on Jerry, thanks. And comp to Laws, I hadn't really thought of that before.

I'd say I like Jerry a smidge more. Laws wasn't as top-heavy, had better strength overall and better hands. He's better suited to take on blockers.

Jerry has more natural ability and quickness, especially his first step, and he's more likely to clog a running lane and rush the passer than get through blockers. I would probably say, that is.

I also think there's a fairly decent chance that Auburn junior DT Sen'Derrick Marks might reach the Colts' 2nd round pick. So if they address another position and are able to get him in the 2nd, that could be a real boon.

chad72
01-05-2009, 01:55 PM
Round 1: Larry English, Northern Illinois, DE or Jeria Perry, Ole Miss, DT

Round 2: Jamon Meredith, South Carolina, OT or Evander Hood, Missouri, DT

(I strongly believe we will go OT/DT or DT/OT in the first 2 rounds)

Round 3: DeAngelo Smith, CB, Cincinnati (played alongside Mike Mickens, goes unnoticed because Mike Mickens is a possible first round pick) or Victor Harris, CB, Virginia Tech

Round 4: Jason Philips, OLB, TCU or Scott Mckillop, ILB, Pittsburgh

Round 5: Alex Magee, DT, Purdue or Cody Brown, Connecticut, DE (situational pass rusher)

Round 6: Kory Sheets of Purdue at RB (6'0", 205 lbs, can run and catch and has 4.49 40 speed) or Herb Donaldson of Western Illinois at RB (5'10", 222 lbs, can run and catch and has 4.5 40 speed, reached 1000 yards within first 7 games at his school 2 years in a row)

Round 6: Compensatory pick (for Ben Utecht): Johnny Knox of Abilene Christian at WR (6'0", 183, 4.45 40) (OR) Manuel Johnson of Oklahoma at WR

Round 7: Jon Copper of Virginia at ILB (6'0", 234 lbs) or Jackie Bates of Hampton at CB

Geo
01-05-2009, 02:00 PM
No comp pick for Ben Utecht, he was signed away as a RFA by the Bengals.

However the Colts will get a better comp pick for Jake Scott, maybe a 4th or at worst a 5th round pick.

chad72
01-05-2009, 02:38 PM
However the Colts will get a better comp pick for Jake Scott, maybe a 4th or at worst a 5th round pick.

If it is for Jake Scott, that will be even better then. I am sure we can get another OT in this OL deep draft as the comp pick for Jake Scott.

UKfan
01-05-2009, 02:53 PM
English in round 1 seems high to me...

Race for the Heisman
01-05-2009, 03:11 PM
English in round 1 seems high to me...

I'm don't think it would have been come draft time if you'd gone a bit further in the playoffs, but in the early twenties I would agree.

chad72
01-05-2009, 03:13 PM
English in round 1 seems high to me...

I have seen his stock rising on several scouting sites. Plus, he was on Mike Mayock's top 20 on the NFL Network as well. Plus, BP had been to one of his games and when they asked him about it, he specified Larry English as the person he had come to look at.

Two intriguing options at #29 which is the highest we will pick at, Fili Moala at DT, or Shonn Greene, RB, of Iowa. Yes, if the league is gravitating towards a running league, as witnessed this year, I can bet that Shonn Greene is a very good bruiser option for that short yardage RB we all crave for. He reminds me of Michael Turner.

redviper311
01-05-2009, 05:11 PM
RD 1: Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU (6'5"/295lbs 4.90 40) Position change to DT in our one gap system.
RD 2: Brandon Tate, WR, UNC (6'1"/195lbs 4.50 40) Would make a great replacement for Harrison as a 2 WR.
RD 3: Domonique Jackson, CB, Jackson State (6'2"/200lbs 4.40 40) With all likely hood that we will not be able to retain both Hayden and Jackson we will need a playmaker at corner with some height and speed.
RD 4: Brannan Southerland, FB/H-Back, UGA (6'0"/240lbs 4.65 40) Really need a true FB to lead block and gain short yards. Was a viable opition in the flats at UGA as a receiver.
RD 5: Nate Longshore, QB, Cal (6'5"/233lbs 5.15 40) Never been a fan a Ted Tedford QB's, but let's face Manning isn't getting any younger and Sorgi is not the future. 4 or 5 years under Manning could mold him into what he should have been at Cal.
RD 6: DeAngelo Williams, CB/S, Tenn (6'0"/200lbs 4.5 40) Played both CB and S at Tenn. Underrated at both positions do to a very talented secondary.
RD 7: Anthony Parker, OG, Tenn (6'3"/300lbs 5.10 40) I really doubt he lasts to the seventh round, but if he is there for the Colts it would be a steal. Played OG and some OT at Tenn. Could be effective as a run blocker.

Dam8610
01-05-2009, 07:42 PM
The Colts need to draft 3 DTs this year.

Geo
01-05-2009, 10:48 PM
I liked Texans WR Quan Cosby before tonight, but boy he blew up tonight against Ohio State. Might not be still available in the late 3rd for the Colts to potentially pick up.

Yeah he just turned 26 years old, but that kind of maturity might help him. He might be able to contribute immediately as a return guy and #3 receiver, and continue to do so for all four years of his rookie contract, even if he's not really in the long-term plans.

RCAChainGang
01-06-2009, 09:01 AM
When is Graham Harrel and Tim Tebow predicted to be off the boards?
If those are late round guys do you see any sense in taking them?

To be honest I have no interest in taking a QB. Manning isn't going anywhere for a while...

Dam8610
01-06-2009, 11:59 AM
I wouldn't want either before round 5 (Harrell). A project QB is a nice luxury, but I'd rather the Colts get something useful with their picks rather than wasting them on luxury picks.

Geo
01-06-2009, 12:06 PM
I really like Tebow and Harrell, those are the only two guys I would consider drafting in the mid-rounds for the Colts. I would consider Tebow with the 3rd round pick, unless there's a player still available who could contribute mightily to the roster. Although I doubt Tebow lasts until the Colts' 3rd round pick anyways, so that problem kind of solves itself out.

Harrell I'd consider in the 4th if the Colts get a 4th round comp for Jake Scott. But, as we've discussed in this team forum, it's likely they get a 5th round comp instead or at least it's better to expect that going in. So Harrell in the 5th, like Dam I would definitely consider because I think he's more than just a throwaway system QB that we've seen from Leach the last number of years.

Otherwise though, I'd stick with Sorgi. He looked awful in the preseason, but was light years ahead in the game against the Titans. Not that he's a starter for another team, like Matt Cassel turned out to be, but as a caretaker he's okay.

Well, there is a third QB I would consider drafting: Ohio State QB Todd Boeckman in the 6th or more likely the 7th, and I thought this before last night's bowl game. I think Boeckman has gotten a bit of a bad rap, he has good size and can throw the ball okay. As a late-round flier, he might have potential.

MaxV
01-06-2009, 08:28 PM
Top needs:

1. UT
2. OG
3. NT
4. RT
5. RB

Geo
01-06-2009, 10:11 PM
If the Colts part ways with Marvin Harrison this offseason, does that change your ranking of needs any, Max?

MaxV
01-06-2009, 10:26 PM
If the Colts part ways with Marvin Harrison this offseason, does that change your ranking of needs any, Max?

Nope. I want Garcon and Hall to get the shot. I'm not against picking another talented WR project late, but I don't think WR is a big need.

I know it's a clichť, but "football games are won at the trenches." I honestly believe that.

I know that our coaches love quickness at both O-Line and D-Line, but like I've said before, this is the NFL not a dance contest.

We NEED more power on BOTH lines.

I mean, how many 3rd-and-1 running plays have we failed on this year???? Everytime we were in that situation, I KNEW we wouldn't make it.

We can't have smurfs playing in the interior of our O-Line.

If I see Charlie Johnson starting for us next year, I will be SERIOUSLY pissed off.

a-dub83
01-06-2009, 10:42 PM
I really do hope we're able to get Peria Jerry. That guy wreaks havoc all over the field. Imagine what Freeney and Mathis would do with him next to them.

Dam8610
01-06-2009, 11:07 PM
Top needs:

1. UT
2. OG
3. NT
4. RT
5. RB

OG that high, even with Lilja coming back and the 3 interior OLs just drafted? I mean, sure, Saturday is probably going to leave, but even still, considering that, OG is that high on your list?

Mine goes:

1) UT
2) NT
3) DT (someone who can play both well)
4) RT
T5) RB
T5) OG
7) WR
8) CB

Of course, if Hayden leaves, CB shoots up to somewhere between 2-4.

a-dub83
01-07-2009, 08:19 PM
Bill Polian said on his last radio show that Kelvin Hayden will be back as a Colt next season. I'm not too crazy about Jennings and Hughes has shown nothing. Therefore I wouldn't be surprised to see a CB at some point in the draft.

Geo
01-07-2009, 08:38 PM
If the team re-signs Hayden, I don't think they need to draft a CB this year. Next year, absolutely, but they have enough guys for 2009 imo.

- Kelvin Hayden (assuming he's re-signed)
- Marlin Jackson (signed through '09)
- Tim Jennings (thru '09)
- Dante Hughes ('10)
- Michael Coe ('10)
- TJ Rushing ('09)

Thing is, there could be pretty good value this year, in Rounds 2-3 and/or afterwards. So BPA could be in play, especially if the pick would upgrade/replace one of those guys.

We haven't seen much of Hughes playing defense, but he's good on special teams. Also dealt with some injuries and a family situation his first two years. I still have hopes for him.

redviper311
01-08-2009, 09:28 AM
I agree with A-Dub about Tim Jennings. When he was drafted by the Colts I was stoked, but since have retracted my thoughts on Jennings. One...he is too short to match up against many WRs in the league and plays short. Two...he commits to may pass inference penalties for my liking, but that is due to that he plays out of position and poor technique. The good thing about Jennings is that is has great speed, but I find the negatives out way the positives.

As for the rest of the CBs on the roster:

Dante Hughes, I haven't seen enough of him to form an opinion yet. What I do know about him is that he is a typical Tampa 2 CB and lacks speed.

Michael Coe, again typical Tampa 2 CB and lacks speed. Don't see him being nothing more than a dime back and Special Teamer.

T.J. Rushing, we just need to cut our ties with him. He is just like Coe nothing more than a dime back and Special Teamer.

So with that I would have to say we should draft a CB on day 1 if one is on the big board when it comes to the Colts to make a selection.

Geo
01-08-2009, 12:18 PM
I'm not saying Jennings is great. If he could cut the penalties and eliminate the brainfart plays, he'd be pretty good. But he can play, beyond those two big faults. And he has experience - as a starter - which, with Marlin Jackson recovering from two knee surgeries, is pretty valuable for '09.

Rushing was a pretty good return man in '07. Him going down in '08 really hurt, especially as the return game suffered greatly. (And when they would get a good return, there would be a penalty to nullify it.) If he can't win the return man job in '09, he'll probably be cut for someone who can.

Geo
01-08-2009, 01:58 PM
Percy Harvin is definitely one of the wild cards in this Draft, if he declares. I haven't really considered him, out of blind guessing, but I don't rule him out either - honestly I don't know if the Colts will consider him. Although I am wondering more now if they will ...

Talent and ability-wise, he's explosive and quick. If the Colts are looking for speed, in and of itself Harvin has to be considered. He has caught a lot of passes at Florida already, displaying a playmaking penchant. Size-wise, he's listed at or just over 5' 11" and 195, which is darn near exactly the Colts' prototype thus far. If that is what he is. Actually body-wise, even though he's under 200, he's jacked; he'd probably put quite a few Colts players to shame walking around the locker room.

But he's yet to be a real full-time receiver, instead a WR/RB hybrid in the Gators' spread offense. The Colts usually don't go for project-type players early on, you'd think it would take a while to develop Harvin as a route runner and traditional receiver. Especially given this offense. Perhaps though, the Colts are a good fit for him. Playing behind Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Anthony Gonzalez, and Joseph Addai, Harvin would have time to develop and contribute at a measured pace. And of course, he would immediately contribute as the starting return man, likely dynamic in that role.

Plus, another knock is that he's been dinged up a bit at Florida. Maybe that had to do with him playing some RB, maybe not. It's only going to get more physical in the NFL.

I think the biggest thing is, if he declares obviously, how he does with the Colts' character/personality/intelligence evaluations leading up to the Draft. Florida guys, even guys just from the state of Florida, by and large don't fit the profile of what the Colts are looking for, but Harvin just might be one of those exceptions. I'm starting to think he might be.

I like that he fought like hell to get back on the field in time for tonight's National Championship Game, he'll play as he says he's "90 percent". Keep an eye on him, you never know I guess.

Anyone have any thoughts on Percy Harvin, possibly to the Colts?

redviper311
01-08-2009, 03:32 PM
Being that I watch more SEC football than any other conference, I personally love Percy Harvin. I think to use him correctly he would need to be a WR/H-Back player in the NFL still which really could open up our offense, especially on those WR bubble screens we like to run with Wayne. Now imagine Harvin's speed on that play=YAC. As a route runner he doesn't fit our system and would be considered a project from that stand point. I would love to draft Harvin, but at the same time if there is a better route running WR available on the board I would take that WR over Harvin.

chad72
01-08-2009, 09:11 PM
After doing a little more research on who might be available at the spots we may pick, here is who I would like:

Round 1: Jeria Perry, Ole Miss, DT

Round 2: Troy Kropog (6'6", 305 lbs), OT, Tulane (they use zone blocking and are a run-heavy team)

Round 3: Dominique Johnson, CB, Jackson State or DeAngelo Smith, CB, Cincinnati

Round 4: Jason Philips, ILB, TCU (I love the Horned Frogs' D, is there anyone else that does?)

Round 5: Mike Wallace, WR, Ole Miss

Round 5: Comp pick for Jake Scott: Kory Sheets, RB, Purdue

Round 6: Jonathan Casillas, OLB, Wisconsin, very fast (4.5 speed for 40), only 227 lbs but Colts like such guys for the OLB position

Round 7: Brice McCain, CB, Utah, fast plus can return kicks

Obviously, this assumes the Colts re-sign Hayden, which would mean CB will not be a high pick

Dam8610
01-08-2009, 10:53 PM
Round 1: Peria Jerry, Ole Miss, DT

Not to single you out on this, but this is a common misspelling, which might become a problem if he becomes a Colt. :D

Geo
01-08-2009, 10:58 PM
I still make that same mistake from time to time, heh.

I'd love to get Jerry in the 1st and then a WR like Juaquin Iglesias or Derrick Williams in the 2nd, except I don't think either of those receivers last. And I doubt Polian will wait long to draft a WR, in fact I'm not sure (kind of doubt it) he'll wait until the 2nd.

Also, Percy Harvin? I think I'm on board ... even though he did a whole lot more of his damage tonight rushing the ball. As a route runner, he's not completely without development already.

indyfan1985
01-08-2009, 11:06 PM
After doing a little more research on who might be available at the spots we may pick, here is who I would like:

Round 1: Jeria Perry, Ole Miss, DT

Round 2: Troy Kropog (6'6", 305 lbs), OT, Tulane (they use zone blocking and are a run-heavy team)

Round 3: Dominique Johnson, CB, Jackson State or DeAngelo Smith, CB, Cincinnati

Round 4: Jason Philips, ILB, TCU (I love the Horned Frogs' D, is there anyone else that does?)

Round 5: Mike Wallace, WR, Ole Miss

Round 5: Comp pick for Jake Scott: Kory Sheets, RB, Purdue

Round 6: Jonathan Casillas, OLB, Wisconsin, very fast (4.5 speed for 40), only 227 lbs but Colts like such guys for the OLB position

Round 7: Brice McCain, CB, Utah, fast plus can return kicks

Obviously, this assumes the Colts re-sign Hayden, which would mean CB will not be a high pick

Not a bad draft, and I LOVE your 3rd round pick, but I would alter a few things...

Here is how I would love the draft to turn out...

1st round- BJ Raji, DT, Boston College

2nd round- Colts trade their 2009 2nd rounder and 2010 2nd rounder to move up to the very early part of the 2nd round to draft WR Darrius Heyward Bey, Maryland.

3rd round- Dominique Johnson, CB, Jackson State
4th round- Jason Phillips, MLB, TCU
5th round- Best OT available
5th round(compensation for Jake Scott)- Best RB available
6th round- Best DT available
7th round- Best CB available

Geo
01-08-2009, 11:08 PM
Some good suggestions recently, I dig it.

IF85, you strike me as an aggressive type when it comes to the Draft. ;)

indyfan1985
01-08-2009, 11:14 PM
Some good suggestions recently, I dig it.

IF85, you strike me as an aggressive type when it comes to the Draft. ;)

Yeah that is something Id pull for if I were a part of the decision making process for the Colts in the draft. This draft has a lot of talent and we need help at multiple positions. I really like Heyward Bey and he would give us an explosive WR with size which we have not had in some time.

IndyColtScout
01-09-2009, 01:59 PM
DHB won't even fall to our 1st round pick.

UKfan
01-09-2009, 02:04 PM
After last night, I want Gerald McCoy more than ever, need him to drop to us, lol

IndyColtScout
01-09-2009, 02:11 PM
McCoy and Granger can both play and would both be fits in the Colts D.

I still want to see them trade down though. We need to pick up extra picks and save the little bit of cap room a trade down would provide.

Dam8610
01-11-2009, 02:42 PM
McCoy and Granger can both play and would both be fits in the Colts D.

I still want to see them trade down though. We need to pick up extra picks and save the little bit of cap room a trade down would provide.

28 to a high 2 is negligible in salary difference, but extremely valuable in contract length (1st rounders get 5 years, 2nd rounders get 4). I'd rather the Colts stay put than trade down based on that.

Geo
01-11-2009, 03:29 PM
Same here, unless there's the trade partner is willing to overspend I suppose. But the Colts will have 8 draft picks already, there's only so many roster spots available. The Colts need quality more than they quantity, better to stay put at either 27th or 28th (NFC rep for Super Bowl guarantees the Colts move up one spot, they move up another if Pittsburgh doesn't make the Super Bowl). Take the BPA and sign him to a 5-year deal.

I updated my Colts' 1st round Big Board (link in the sig), taking out a defensive player. Check it out.

MaxV
01-12-2009, 03:58 PM
BTW, for RB prospects, one of my favorites is Liberty's Rashad Jennings.

RCAChainGang
01-14-2009, 08:11 AM
Just got around to reading your updated mock.

I also think we will get a WR very early as we always have drafted skill positions early on.

I also very much agree with what you said about Joseph Addai. He is a geat RB and us drafting a RB will just be a guy to take the load off Addai. We had some rough run blocking making Addai look bad, but its not his fault. Look for Addai to have a huge season next year with consistent 4-9 yard runs.

chad72
01-14-2009, 09:55 AM
Derrick Williams may be overshadowed because he is not in the Big 12 or SEC and plays in the Big 10. He was attempted to be recruited by USC prior to joining Penn State. But I like what I am reading here about him in this link:

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=1685

Excerpts from above article link:

"His route running is still a little raw, but Williams gets off the line as fast as any receiver in college football. He is excellent at exploding when the ball is snapped and blowing by press coverage. Creative offensive coordinators could find places all over the field to get him the ball. He gets to top speed quickly and is very good at stopping on a dime during curls and deep comeback routes. Williams is also a very good return man. He has run two punts back for touchdowns while playing at Penn State and has been the primary return man on kick offs since his sophomore season. Williams is currently a second to third round prospect, but could turn out to be one of the best receivers in this class. "

His height is 6'0", weight is around 194 lbs, has 4.4 40 speed

Marvin is 6'0", Reggie is 6'0", and Gonzo is 6'0". Looks like he fits the bill as a Colts wideout to me. :)

And we all know how much BP loves Joe Paterno and his recommendations and may go for this guy at the end of round 2. That will also give BP the options of going defense (mainly DT) in the first round, IMO.

Geo
01-14-2009, 11:41 AM
The draft: Twenty of 22 projected starters are under contract, but there are concerns nonetheless. The April 25-26 draft is the most likely avenue for reinforcing the roster; Indy will pick either 26th or 27th overall in the first round.

Polian said the team's main objective is finding a quality receiver.

"Marvin's not going to play forever," Polian said. "We've got to be thinking about what's the future at that critical position. How do you replace a Hall of Famer?"

Depth at several positions, including defensive tackle, also must be addressed. Polian expects cornerback Marlin Jackson to make a complete recovery from a season-ending knee injury, which would be a boost to the secondary.
link (http://www.indystar.com/article/20090114/SPORTS03/901140368/1058/SPORTS03)

Good news: LSU WR Brandon Lafell declared for the Draft today. I really like this guy, although I wonder if he has the intelligence to play for the Colts. And he'll need to time well, but you can see it on the field, he's a real player.

Bad news: Percy Harvin has yet to declare. I don't think he gets past the Colts' pick if he does.

MaxV
01-14-2009, 11:52 AM
That sounds like a hint about Marvin's situation. I'm not against drafting WR, but I don't think it's a big need.

We need DT help and I think it might be time to look for Diem's eventual replacement.

Geo
01-14-2009, 12:40 PM
For the Colts and/or personally? Here's how I would, although this will probably change 50 times before the Draft gets here:

1. Percy Harvin, Florida (http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/playerDetail.jsp?yr=2008&org=235&player=1). Likely could take 2 or 3 years until he can work the full route tree, and if/when that happens, he could be a star. One of the few players, rookie or otherwise, who might provide a credible deep threat from day one. Fits the Colts' prototype to a tee, at around 6' and 195 listed, although I can't recall them going for a transitional player like Harvin close to this early. Plays at Florida and was born in Virginia, and not to knock down both, but seems like a more intelligent player than the average from either of those settings (at least that's my impression). Should definitely handle the return duties from day one as well, 1st round pick or not. But this can't happen unless Harvin declares.

2. Darrius Heyward-Bey, Maryland (http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/playerDetail.jsp?yr=2008&org=392&player=8). DHB just might be the best combo of size/speed/intelligence/character for the Colts. Could even measure in up to 6' 3", DHB kicks off a run of bigger WR prospects for the Colts. Although he has natural speed and quickness, isn't afraid of contact and does run slants inside. Plus he adjusts to a ball in the air pretty well, at least from what I've seen. Has decent collegiate production though. With his sub-4.4 speed, like Harvin, could be a potential deep threat and return man.

3. Kenny Britt, Rutgers (http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/playerDetail.jsp?yr=2008&org=587&player=88). I've said this before, although he's a much bigger guy than their prototype (listed at 6' 4" and 215), the way he plays and moves around and runs his routes reminds me of a Colts receiver. Needs to catch the ball with his hands a little better, and that's something that can definitely be worked on with his receivers coach. Although a real big guy, he plays quick on the field and I wouldn't be surprised if he runs sub-4.5 (which is big for the Colts, I don't think they draft a WR who runs 4.5something) ... although he may have a longer stride, if that's a negative. Highly productive the last two years, catching 2600 yards and 15 TDs in that span and averaging over 19 ypc ('07) & 15 ypc ('08), plus he played extremely well in his last two Bowl games - all things the Colts like in their 1st round picks. The two big questions are if he's fast enough and does he profile well to be a Colts receiver?

4. Brandon Lafell, LSU (http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/playerDetail.jsp?yr=2008&org=365&player=1). Best LSU WR since Dwayne Bowe, a very good run-blocker like Bowe, although Lafell is a touch more agile (although Bowe at around 225-230 is a beast). Of all these receivers listed, I think Lafell has the greatest clutch factor imo. And the Colts like players who can score TDs on a limited amount of touches: Lafell, with inconsistent and young QBs, scored 8 TDs on 63 receptions this season. Similar case to Britt, is he fast enough and is he smart enough to be a Colts receiver? I think the latter is a concern for Lafell, which is why he's ranked here. Also listed around 6' 3" and 210. Brandon Lafell has changed his mind, will stay for his senior season at LSU.

5. Hakeem Nicks, North Carolina (http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/playerDetail.jsp?yr=2008&org=457&player=88). If only this guy was faster. It's somewhat unfortunate, but that is the situation. I think the guy is fine every else, but his speed (or slight lack of) will knock him down for the Colts. We'll see though, maybe he'll time better than expected (4.55ish), although seeing him play, it looks to be the case or close to. The Colts like guys who get better through their college careers and have a great final season, well Lafell is a perfect example of that. His 08 season: 68 receptions for 1222 yards and 12 TDs, capped off with a highly memorable bowl performance. And if head coach Butch Davis puts in a really good word for him, that could hold weight in the Colts' war room - he's put a number of receivers into the pros, Reggie Wayne being one of them.


Edit: Michael Crabtree and Jeremy Maclin aren't listed because neither gets close to the Colts' 1st round pick, for those wondering.

Dam8610
01-14-2009, 08:57 PM
I think that's the Polian Smokescreen Machine working overtime, especially after Jim Caldwell said he wanted to bulk up the DL. Anyone else remember the article before the 2006 draft that had Polian talking about how he felt Rhodes was a Pro Bowl caliber RB? Then, almost obviously, the Colts drafted Joseph Addai. That's not to say that Marvin won't be gone, but Reggie has been the #1 for a while and Gonzo is fast developing into a dependable #2, and the Colts usually go BPA. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were targeting a DT.

Geo
01-15-2009, 10:38 AM
That's true, it does seem a bit strange that Polian would come out and say it (and when exactly did he tell this Indystar -gag- reporter this news, btw? Post-press conference?).

Although I believe it, myself. Polian doesn't like to wait when he has a need, we've seen exactly that from '06 to '08. Even though I like Garcon (heck of a special teamer too) and Hall, the team needs a 5th wideout on the roster. I think there will be awesome depth in this year's class, but I also think the 1st round has great WR prospects too. Win-win imo, for whatever the Colts decide.

I love Peria Jerry as a player who can fit this defense, but the fact that he will be 25 years old before the season starts, plus his durability concerns, has me scared off of him. Sen'Derrick Marks I like a whole lot too, although he's not really that bigger type of DT as much as Jerry is, if that's what they're gunning for. Unless the Colts will bench both Eric Foster and Keyunta Dawson and are going for a bigger 3 tech tackle, that is.

Dam8610
01-15-2009, 11:10 AM
That's true, it does seem a bit strange that Polian would come out and say it (and when exactly did he tell this Indystar -gag- reporter this news, btw? Post-press conference?).

Although I believe it, myself. Polian doesn't like to wait when he has a need, we've seen exactly that from '06 to '08. Even though I like Garcon (heck of a special teamer too) and Hall, the team needs a 5th wideout on the roster. I think there will be awesome depth in this year's class, but I also think the 1st round has great WR prospects too. Win-win imo, for whatever the Colts decide.

I love Peria Jerry as a player who can fit this defense, but the fact that he will be 25 years old before the season starts, plus his durability concerns, has me scared off of him. Sen'Derrick Marks I like a whole lot too, although he's not really that bigger type of DT as much as Jerry is, if that's what they're gunning for. Unless the Colts will bench both Eric Foster and Keyunta Dawson and are going for a bigger 3 tech tackle, that is.

Well, if Caldwell lives up to his promises (and he hasn't disappointed thus far, although I will grant that it's only been a few days), it sounds like the Colts are going to be getting bigger on the DL, which I would assume means bigger DTs since the Colts have 2 pro bowlers at DE. If that's the case, I would be shocked if Keyunta Dawson stays at DT. Eric Foster, OTOH, will probably get a shot at some PT at UT, but I wouldn't expect him to be the starter or ever see the field at NT again.

Geo
01-15-2009, 11:17 AM
I think Foster and Dawson rotate at 3 tech, and Antonio Johnson plus a draft pick (or Muir?) rotate at NT. Plus probably a 5th DT on the roster, either Dan Muir or another draft pick.

Wonder if the team considers moving Dawson back to DE. That was his college position and what he played the first half or so of the '07 season, before injuries led the team to move him inside.

Geo
01-15-2009, 12:10 PM
Percy Harvin declares for the Draft (http://www.gatorzone.com/story.php?id=15133).

RCAChainGang
01-16-2009, 09:32 AM
I think the draft this year will be very interesting with Jim Caldwell now at coach. I know he doesn't make he final decision on the draft choice, but he does however have input. I am anxious to see if he stays traditional or goes with some bigger DT's.

I want us to take a look at the WR's in the first round. There is so much talent in this years draft it would be a shame to pass up on a guy like Harvin. Then for depth there are even more WR's that are sleepers. I know we have discussed LaFell from LSU, and I like Massaquoi from Georgia.

I would like to see a DT go for our second pick. Someone like Fili Moala (though I have heard about character issues) or even better Ron Brace from Boston College. I like his size and strength for our D-line.

I would like to see a RB 3rd. I am a fan of Javon Ringer. I would love to see him come over and take some carries in our backfield

This draft is gonna be interesting...

chad72
01-16-2009, 11:34 AM
Even though I like Garcon (heck of a special teamer too) and Hall, the team needs a 5th wideout on the roster. I think there will be awesome depth in this year's class, but I also think the 1st round has great WR prospects too. Win-win imo, for whatever the Colts decide.

Let us say the Colts release Marvin. Sam Giguere, who was supposed to be a first round pick in the CFL, is on the Colts practice squad. It takes a while to learn the Colts playbook on offense. Not everyone is Gonzo, it goes to show you how good Gonzo was in his rookie year.

Garcon got to catch passes from "fat" and "fatter" in pre-season last year. It would be different if he caught more from Sorgi and definitely Manning. Garcon has good leaping abilities and Giguere is supposedly fast and strong (he is ripped enough to play TE, IMO). One more year of learning the playbook will only make Garcon and Giguere better.

So, if we release Marvin and draft a new WR. The WRs on our roster will be:

Wayne, Gonzo, Garcon, Hall, Giguere and the new WR - that makes 6.

We have never kept more than 5 WRs on our roster. So, one of them gets released, who will it be - Hall or Giguere? BP was high on Giguere and Garcon on the WNDE 1260 AM show. If the force out rule is not there anymore, and the WR has to get two feet or one elbow in bounds, then Hall is not as coveted as that huge target in the end zone like he was coming out of the draft if he cannot gain separation.

Like someone said, this could be a BP smokescreen and the new WR could come from later rounds. Regardless, Marvin will be released, and one of Hall/Giguere will be cut eventually after training camp.

Geo
01-17-2009, 02:17 PM
Good point on the team also developing Giguere, although I am skeptical that he'll be ready to jump in this year. Maybe.

For all this talk about drafting a wideout, I would love to see Pierre Garcon get a shot at being the #3 receiver, probably staying outside the whole time. I think he can be a good player. But whether he actually gets a shot, who knows. Probably not, unfortunately, but at least he makes a great #4 who is a very good special teams player.

_________________________________________________

Scott has Sen'Derrick Marks listed as his #4 DT. Excellent. [/Mr. Burns]

Let's just hope he continues to fly somewhat under the radar and just maybe, reaches the Colts' 2nd round pick ... which might happen if he comes in shorter and lighter at the Combine as I believe he might. Although for Marks to get past that many teams twice, that may be asking too much. Especially Tampa Bay who, although they lost Monte Kiffin, will probably keep the Tampa 2 defense under Raheem Morris and could use a good DT.

If the Colts want to go DT early, my aim would be either Marks or Fili Moala (#6 DT for Scott). Could be a good chance at least one of them is available in the late 2nd, if I were to go DT early. The more I think about it, and I see that 2010 is loaded with great DTs (Class of the DT), the more I'd rather choose to pick up a NT prospect in the 4th/maybe 3rd round and wait to pick up a real impact DT or two next year.

Too kooky an idea? What do you guys think?

_________________________________________________

Evander Hood is currently ranked ahead of both at #3, but he doesn't do anything for me. I haven't paid as much attention to him as those two other guys, but from what's being said about him and what I saw, he's a little overhyped/overrated for me. I would consider him in the 3rd round, perhaps.

Two things I look for statistically from a DT to consider him early: 10-plus TFLs and 4-plus sacks. (Stud numbers are 14 and 7.) I need to know this guy can get in the backfield and cause some havoc for the opposing DL. Especially for a penetrating DT, tackle numbers are good but not fully indicative, if these guys are setting things up front for the back seven behind them. But of course if a guy can make tackles at or behind the line, that's great obviously.

Hood has the sacks, but doesn't have 10 TFLs in any one season as a starter. Which is a bit disconcerting to me, especially for a guy who is supposed to have a great motor.

Any thoughts/opinions about Hood? Overrated, underrated, worth a 2nd round pick, etcetera? Or any other DTs?

Chime in on anything.

MaxV
01-17-2009, 02:25 PM
I like Georgia Tech's Vance Walker. He's big, strong and athletic.

And as I've said before, I'm VERY high on Iowa's Mitch King. He's perfect for our system.

I think he would be a steal in mid-rounds.

Geo
01-17-2009, 03:16 PM
East-West Shrine Game is on, for anyone interested.

Kentucky DT Myron Pryor, a good mid-round prospect for the Colts, just made an awesome stop on 4th and goal.

Dam8610
01-17-2009, 09:10 PM
East-West Shrine Game is on, for anyone interested.

Kentucky DT Myron Pryor, a good mid-round prospect for the Colts, just made an awesome stop on 4th and goal.

Nothing new for him, he seemed to make plays constantly whenever I watched Kentucky.

Dam8610
01-18-2009, 07:16 PM
1) DT Peria Jerry, Ole Miss
The Colts BADLY need some fresh blood at DT, and I think Peria Jerry will make for an excellent fit. He gets penetration into the backfield on most passing downs, and on running downs, he holds his point. This is something the Colts sorely lacked for the entire 2008 season, and will hopefully address this coming offseason.

2) DE Larry English, Northern Illinois University
I REALLY wanted to put Aaron Maybin here, but I doubt he's around at this point. English is a great pass rushing end, and at 6'3" 255, has the frame of some of the better pass rushers in recent history, such as Michael Strahan and Jason Taylor. Along with Freeney and Mathis, he would hopefully provide relentless pressure on the QB.

3) DT Darryl Richard, Georgia Tech
I started watching Georgia Tech football this year to see Vance Walker, and every time I turned a game of theirs on, they had a DT making plays, but it was generally #95, Darryl Richard. Richard was an every down defensive player for the Yellow Jackets, and I think for the Colts, he could be close to an every down player, rotating at both UT and NT.

4) DT Myron Pryor, Kentucky
The Colts have a very big need at DT, and IMO it needs to be addressed early and often. Pryor is big for a Tampa 2 DT, and would likely play NT for the Colts, but he gets penetration and makes plays often, something that he would hopefully be able to carry over to Indianapolis.

5) OT Jose Valdez, Arkansas
The offensive line of the Colts was an issue this season, but an issue that I think will resolve itself with the return of Ryan Lilja and the continued development of Tony Ugoh, Mike Pollak, Steve Justice, and Jamey Richard. That said, Ryan Diem isn't getting younger and for his contract, he's been a disappointment, and the depth on the OL isn't very deep to say the least. Valdez becomes the eventual successor to Diem (maybe in a competition with Charlie Johnson) and an immediate backup at both OT positions.

5 comp) RB Kory Sheets, Purdue
I'm going to remain conservative and say that the NFL will only award a 5th round pick to the Colts for Jake Scott. The Colts are likely going to let Dominic Rhodes walk, which would leave Mike Hart and Chad Simpson as Joseph Addai's backups. While I like both players, I'm a big fan of Sheets and think he could be a good starter in the NFL, he can do it all, he blocks well, runs well, can catch the ball out of the backfield, and can break the big play. The team that drafts him is going to get a very pleasant surprise, and I'm hoping that team is the Colts as the #2 RB.

6) S Darcel McBath, Texas Tech
This mock assumes Kelvin Hayden will be a Colt next season, as indicated a few times by Bill Polian. If that is the case, the Colts are likely going to need to replace Antoine Bethea in the near future. I watched McBath a few times this season, and I liked what I saw, he seemed to be around the ball and making a play often.

7) DT Clinton McDonald, Memphis
This is a high potential pick, which can definitely be afforded at this point. Were the Colts to draft Peria Jerry to be their UT of the future, they'd need a succession plan in place fairly quickly. McDonald could be that guy if he can overcome injuries. At 6'3" ~290, McDonald is expected to run a 4.7 40 at the combine, and had 7 sacks in his first 6 games prior to being injured. If he can be had here, I would hope that the Colts could snatch him up, stash him away on the practice sqaud and wait for him to develop a bit, and then over the next season or 2, work him into the rotation.

Thoughts? Did I go overkill on the DTs? Anyone you feel isn't very likely to make it to the pick I have him slotted at? I'm thinking if McDonald really does run a 4.7, there's no way he lasts to round 7, but other than that, I think it's fairly realistic in terms of where players would be slotted.

MaxV
01-18-2009, 08:56 PM
I want DTs also, but 4? Yeah, that's overkill.

Put Mitch King somewhere there. Trust me, he's THAT good.

Dam8610
01-18-2009, 09:25 PM
I want DTs also, but 4? Yeah, that's overkill.

Put Mitch King somewhere there. Trust me, he's THAT good.

I didn't plan on 4, but I really like the potential of McDonald, and I can't think of any other need position that the Colts could look at there and pick up a guy with such high potential. I wouldn't mind Mitch King, but he's not a must have for me. I like the motor, looks to me like he could be a Montae Reagor type, but King seems like another undersized type, and I think the Colts are going to try to get away from that this offseason.

MaxV
01-18-2009, 10:11 PM
Yes, he's undersized, but he's very powerful. He's by no means a liability vs. the run.

And he lives in the backfield.

I want this guy in the Colts uniform next season.

Geo
01-18-2009, 11:43 PM
Dam and everyone:

How do you feel about Peria Jerry being 25 years old before the season starts, and his durability issues (not big, but present)? Does it affect how you regard him as a potential draft pick, or not affect it any?

I'm curious about that, because it affects me some. Although I admit nonetheless that, more than any other prospect, he would be the most likely to start for the team and could provide the biggest contribution immediately.


Also,
The Draft order is set for the Colts, at least through the first three rounds. Unless I screwed up the numbers, I believe the Colts' first 3 draft picks are as follows:

27th overall, 61st overall, and 93rd overall

Pretty good picks. The way it works in the Draft order between the three 12-4 teams not in the Super Bowl:
1st round- Indy, Philly (f/ Carolina), NY Giants
2nd round- Carolina, NY Giants, Indy
3rd round- NY Giants, Indy, Carolina
4th round- Indy, Carolina, NY Giants
and so on ...

Small bonus that the Colts get to pick first in the 1st round, ahead of those two other teams.

Kory Sheets is a good prospect on Dam's mock (which I dig, although it's a smidge DT-heavy, just a smidge :p). Another Big Ten guy also catches my eye as a mid-Day Two guy: Marcus Thigpen of Indiana

How would you feel about the Colts drafting him, or someone like him, to hopefully provide a Darren Sproles-type RB: a shifty little back who can foremost contribute as a good return man, as well as additionally provide a quick change-of-pace receiving and rushing weapon out of the backfield?

The Colts already have a similar player in Chad Simpson, though. I am wondering however if CounterStrike can be that guy. He hasn't had enough opportunity to show what he can do, I will say, although his late season fumbles have me worried some. He has promise though.

Also, I think Polian likes his #2 and #3 backs to be around 5-9, hasn't he shown that the last few years? I think that has been the case. While Mike Hart won't be a very good return man, he can excel on third downs though, even if he's the "Michael Turner" of the group.

Dam8610
01-19-2009, 12:20 AM
Dam and everyone:

How do you feel about Peria Jerry being 25 years old before the season starts, and his durability issues (not big, but present)? Does it affect how you regard him as a potential draft pick, or not affect it any?

I'm curious about that, because it affects me some. Although I admit nonetheless that, more than any other prospect, he would be the most likely to start for the team and could provide the biggest contribution immediately.

It affects my view of him in that were there a player of similar caliber in the class, I'd rather have him, but I wouldn't at all mind if the Colts drafted him since next year is supposed to be the year of the DT and my mock is probably a bit DT heavy (even though I do think the Colts need at least 2, ideally 3 new DTs next season, and that's if Darrell Reid and Antonio Johnson are retained). Now if there's a guy like Jeremy Maclin, Brian Orakpo, Everette Brown, William Moore, etc. on the board, it would probably be wiser (and less popular, though it seems sometimes Polian almost purposefully chooses that move) to go BPA.

Also,
The Draft order is set for the Colts, at least through the first three rounds. Unless I screwed up the numbers, I believe the Colts' first 3 draft picks are as follows:

27th overall, 61st overall, and 93rd overall

Pretty good picks. The way it works in the Draft order between the three 12-4 teams not in the Super Bowl:
1st round- Indy, Philly (f/ Carolina), NY Giants
2nd round- Carolina, NY Giants, Indy
3rd round- NY Giants, Indy, Carolina
4th round- Indy, Carolina, NY Giants
and so on ...

Small bonus that the Colts get to pick first in the 1st round, ahead of those two other teams.

The Colts caught a break getting the first pick of the first round among those 3 teams, I don't mind being the last pick of the 3 in the next round because of it.

Kory Sheets is a good prospect on Dam's mock (which I dig, although it's a smidge DT-heavy, just a smidge :p). Another Big Ten guy also catches my eye as a mid-Day Two guy: Marcus Thigpen of Indiana

How would you feel about the Colts drafting him, or someone like him, to hopefully provide a Darren Sproles-type RB: a shifty little back who can foremost contribute as a good return man, as well as additionally provide a quick change-of-pace receiving and rushing weapon out of the backfield?

The Colts already have a similar player in Chad Simpson, though. I am wondering however if CounterStrike can be that guy. He hasn't had enough opportunity to show what he can do, I will say, although his late season fumbles have me worried some. He has promise though.

Also, I think Polian likes his #2 and #3 backs to be around 5-9, hasn't he shown that the last few years? I think that has been the case. While Mike Hart won't be a very good return man, he can excel on third downs though, even if he's the "Michael Turner" of the group.

I'm not too big on Thigpen, then again I'm not too big on midget backs in general (no pun intended). If Polian wanted to draft him to compete for the KR/PR spot late in the draft, I'd be for that. The reason I want Sheets is because he has the size that Hart lacks and the big play ability that every Colts RB seems to lack (though maybe that's because of Peyton Manning in part), plus, as I've stated numerous times, I think he's extremely underrated and whoever drafts him is going to end up with a starting caliber RB. He could be the Steve Slaton (without the starting opportunity unless Addai starts stinking up the joint with blocking, which I doubt) or Tashard Choice of the 2009 draft.

MaxV
01-19-2009, 10:52 AM
Jerry's age is a negative, but we aren't a rebuilding team. If he's there, I think we should take him.

I've seen a lot of Kory Sheets and I like him, but I wouldn't compare him to Slaton. Sheets isn't as explosive. Also, while he may be bigger then Hart, he doesn't break as many tackles. But Sheets does have a good combination of power/quickness. He's a very slippery and deceptive runner.

fischbowl
01-19-2009, 12:05 PM
Due to some last minute douchery by Tampa, I was unable to retain Hayden. Where do you think CB shoots to in terms of positions of need?

Dam8610
01-19-2009, 01:02 PM
Jerry's age is a negative, but we aren't a rebuilding team. If he's there, I think we should take him.

I've seen a lot of Kory Sheets and I like him, but I wouldn't compare him to Slaton. Sheets isn't as explosive. Also, while he may be bigger then Hart, he doesn't break as many tackles. But Sheets does have a good combination of power/quickness. He's a very slippery and deceptive runner.

I was only comparing him to Slaton in the respect of potentially being a mid-round steal at RB. The more I think about it though, the more I think Tashard Choice is almost a perfect comparison, though I think Sheets is a little faster.

Due to some last minute douchery by Tampa, I was unable to retain Hayden. Where do you think CB shoots to in terms of positions of need?

1) UT
2) NT
3) DT (someone who can play both well)
4) RT
T5) RB
T5) OG
7) WR
8) CB

Of course, if Hayden leaves, CB shoots up to somewhere between 2-4.

Hope that helps.

chad72
01-19-2009, 01:52 PM
He was part of that TCU D-line that took on double teams and allowed his LBs like Jason Philips to flourish.

At 6'1", 292 lbs, Cody Moore could be a late round steal, IMO.

Geo
01-19-2009, 01:53 PM
Quick little mock, where I assume the Colts draft Peria Jerry and think what the Colts could do afterwards, with some wishful thinking afterwards:


1st round/27th overall: DT Peria Jerry, Mississippi
His age is a huge turn-off, his durability also worries me, and I think his body is a little soft and top-heavy. That said, I think he could be a beast for this defense, especially playing with D-Free and Mathis outside. I'd probably want him to start day one, and he could slide over to UT to have Antonio Johnson at NT against the bigger offensive lines/run-heavy teams like the Steelers and Chargers.


2nd round/61st overall: WR Brian Robiskie, Ohio State
This probably isn't that surprising, especially if you guys have read my posts in this thread - Robiskie has been my favorite senior WR since before the season started, and I've been dropping hints that I still dig him throughout the year. More than any other receiver and maybe even player in college football, this guy conducts himself like a pro. Stellar character, not even including he's the son of pro coach Terry Robiskie, Brian Robiskie is just a rare cat like Anthony Gonzalez was as a prospect. Played in a pro offense with some spread looks, too. Great size at around 6' 2", 200, and he's a good (maybe not great) run-blocker.

The big issue for him is speed. He's not regarded as being fast but I watch him and I see he plays with speed, plus he does an awesome job of adjusting to a ball. I know this may sound a bit crazy, but he's kind of a poor man's Larry Fitzgerald imo. Poor to the point of likely reaching the Colts' late 2nd round pick, heh, but he's underrated imo. I know Polian will want speed and Robiskie's likely early 4.5 40-time could eliminate him, but that really disheartens me because I'd love to have this guy as a Colts' receiver. Especially giving Peyton a bigger guy who can make some separation with his size and long arms. I hope the Colts consider him and snatch him up in the 2nd, he's perfect.


3rd round/93rd overall: LB Scott McKillop, Pittsburgh
I think I've had McKillop in a previous mock, but what can I say, I dig that guy whole lot and would love to add him to my fave team. He is a linebacker, through and through. Played at Pittsburgh like Clint Session and HB Blades (who McKillop was behind on the depth chart), and is very productive and capable. Listed at 6' 1", 240, which is very good size. Might not run better than 4.7 flat, which means the Colts might not consider him - again, I would be very disappointed if that's the case, because honestly, I'd probably take McKillop over either Laurinaitis or Maualuga. Especially if we're considering draft position, although I think there's a very good chance he might not reach this pick. Phillp Wheeler managed to get this far, who knows.

Gerald McRath is also a very interesting prospect, although I haven't seen a lick of him myself so I can only mention him here.

Geo
01-19-2009, 03:05 PM
Btw, all three of those guys are participating in the Senior Bowl. Great to have another chance to check them out, and for the Colts to make get some interviews in now.

How they and some other players we've noted measured (height, weight, arms, hands) in, of course there's a lot more if you check out Scott's awesome and thankfully free Senior Bowl coverage:


NT B.J. Raji, Boston College
6-1-5/8, 334, 31-1/4, 10-1/4
"Stocky fireplug with a huge butt."
Beefy! He might not fit the defense and very likely won't reach their first pick anyways, but a small part of my brain wonders what if.

DT Peria Jerry, Ole Miss
6-1-5/8, 290, 32-1/4, 9-3/8
"Had a gut and looked maxed out."
Well then. My previous comments early this afternoon: Hmm, I expected him a little bigger, around his listed 6-3/310. Although the lighter weight could be him coming in better shape and conditioning, in showing his commitment to being a pro, and maybe even slightly more explosive for it? I already thought he's going to have a great week at Mobile.

DT Fili Moala, Southern Cal
6-4-1/4, 303, 33-3/4, 10
"Soft with a long upper body."
Big boy with some long arms. Scott says he looks a little soft though, which isn't too surprising.

DT Evander Hood, Missouri
6-3-1/8, 298, 33-1/4, 9-7/8
"Well developed with a lot of muscle."
Comes in as he was listed. Very good size.

WR Brian Robiskie, Ohio State
6-2-7/8, 207, 31-1/8, 9-3/8
"Good overall muscle balance."
Great size, just shy of 6-3/210! Please come to the Colts. ;)

LB Scott McKillop, Pittsburgh
6-1, 243, 31-3/4, 9-5/8
"Did not have a lot of muscle definition."
Great size.

CB Mike Mickens, Cincinnati
5-11, 176, 31-1/2, 9-3/4
"Thin and not very developed physically."
Not too surprised, he looks rail-thin and didn't seem to be a Colts' corner. Still a good player for whoever gets him.

CB DeAngelo Smith, Cincinnati
5-10-1/2, 191, 29-1/2, 9-1/8
"Did not stand out in any way."
This Bearcats corner is just right however. :D Any chance he can reach the Colts' 4th round pick? I'd love to draft him there.


Edit: Added Scott's additional weigh-in comments.

Geo
01-19-2009, 04:03 PM
My quick impressions from watching the North DL vs OL one-on-one battles:


BJ Raji- what a beast. He's ridiculously quick for a man his size. He's getting the better of Alex Mack in almost every battle, he needs to be double-teamed.

Mitch King- Guards are having great difficulty blocking him, he's just too quick.

Evander Hood- he's won some battles thanks to working a great spin move.

Ron Brace- he's not going to bring any flash, but he'll bring the push. Would be a very good 4-3 NT.

fischbowl
01-19-2009, 05:42 PM
Selected Percy Harvin in the Forum Mock at 27

Dam8610
01-19-2009, 07:36 PM
Selected Percy Harvin in the Forum Mock at 27

Furious: Percy Harvin

Just sayin'...

MaxV
01-19-2009, 09:08 PM
Mitch King- Guards are having great difficulty blocking him, he's just too quick.

I told you. This guy is very underrated.

Dam8610
01-19-2009, 09:27 PM
I would say he reminds me of Steve Slaton last year at this point in the process, although Sheets was more durable than Slaton, while Slaton was more well known as a prospect because of the team he played on. Similar size and build. Similar skills and explosion. Slaton really looked good at the Senior Bowl last year as well.

Ha, interesting to say the least. Also, someone compares him to Brian Westbrook on that thread. I don't know whether to be happy or upset that he's getting recognition. He certainly deserves it, but it's a sure sign that his draft stock is moving up. :(

fischbowl
01-19-2009, 09:40 PM
Just sayin'...

It was tough for me between him and Jerry. I went with Harvin for pure tools alone, but I was deeply concerned about his injury issues. Jerry's age scares me and I was optimistic about having a certain player fall to me

Geo
01-19-2009, 10:25 PM
I like the Harvin pick. Even if I didn't like it, I expect Polian to make it if Harvin reaches the pick (which I'm thinking he might not though). I can't shake the feeling that Polian is gunning for a speedy WR all the way, that it's his first and foremost priority. Literally his first and foremost priority.

Not even that he'll replace Harrison with just a good young receiver, the guy will definitely have to have speed.

I honestly wonder if Polian ever thought, when he drafted Anthony Gonzalez, that he was drafting Marvin Harrison's successor. I think he was thinking Brandon Stokley's successor one and only, which truly, I have to say is rather disappointing. A 1st round pick on a slot receiver. This is after giving Stokley a ridiculous contract after the 2004 season. And he overpaid Dallas Clark, although I love Clark and can live with the contract.

But I guess that is his vision, that they need an abundance of weapons offensively to get it done. And Reggie Wayne is going to be 31 this season, so you never know I guess.

Harvin is an exceptional talent though. We're talking about Jerry's age - Harvin doesn't turn 21 years-old until late May. To be fair, I think you're much more likely to get a 1st round DT as good as Jerry next year than you're going to get a WR prospect as good as Harvin.

chad72
01-20-2009, 09:20 AM
Given BP's propensity to go CB higher than DT in the past, and if B.J.Raji is not available at our first round pick, I feel BP will go with Alphonso Smith at CB from Wake Forest. Plus, Wake Forest players normally have higher academic standards to adhere to, that means a lot to BP for a first round pick, I would think. That would mean cya to Jennings and/or Ratliff. Not to mention Jim Caldwell and his Wake Forest days as a footnote.

I feel that BP will go DT with the second round pick with Ziggy Hood or Sen'Derrick Marks.

I am not sold on Robiskie, he disappears against elite competition even with one-on-one coverage and cannot stretch the field. The Colts, at this point in time, need someone to stretch the field. Other than a few 1st round picks like Crabtree, Maclin, and Heyward Bey, others that can do it are Ken Britt and Derrick Williams (mid-to-late 2nd round picks, IMO).

If you want a Marvin clone in size and speed (Marvin of a few years ago), look at Jarret Dillard of Rice, could be there around the 4th or 5th. Another late round WR pick that could stretch the field would be Mike Wallace of Ole Miss who can only be used as kickoff/punt returner due to his speed and eased into the offense (though Al Davis might pick him earlier because of that:)). If BP wants a project WR that helps with punts/kickoffs, they will be late round WR picks. That would mean that he plans to have Garcon along with Tamme to pick up the receiving slack along with Wayne and Gonzo if Marvin is gone. Garcon should not be a project anymore, IMO.

Geo
01-20-2009, 12:53 PM
This idea of the Colts needing a deep threat is starting to ruffle my feathers a bit. He would help the team in the regular season, but seriously, how much is a deep threat going to do against the best defenses in the league come the postseason? Not much. Not much unless he can get off press coverage.

There's a novel idea! Instead of focusing so much on speed, how about instead focusing on getting another receiver who can get off press coverage? Reggie Wayne is a stud in the postseason, yet has likely never been the fastest receiver on his team in any season.

Will an opponent play as much Cover 2 without a deep threat? Probably not, although don't discount the effect of Reggie Wayne finally moving to the right side where he belongs. But if you have all four guys on the field in Wayne/Gonzo/Clark/#3 WR, the opposing defense will have to play a nickel (if not dime) defense. They have to put a nickel back on the third receiver, there's no way they'd leave a linebacker on him.

But I feel it in my bones that Polian's exact mindset is that they need a deep threat, because Harrison used to be a deep threat and they had great offensive success at that time when that was the case. As though that success laughably hinged on Harrison's speed instead of Peyton having other weapons in Wayne/Stokley/Clark/Edge/Pollard to count on. That is how his mind works, I just know it.

Dam8610
01-20-2009, 01:27 PM
This idea of the Colts needing a deep threat is starting to ruffle my feathers a bit. He would help the team in the regular season, but seriously, how much is a deep threat going to do against the best defenses in the league come the postseason? Not much. Not much unless he can get off press coverage.

There's a novel idea! Instead of focusing so much on speed, how about instead focusing on getting another receiver who can get off press coverage? Reggie Wayne is a stud in the postseason, yet has likely never been the fastest receiver on his team in any season.

Will an opponent play as much Cover 2 without a deep threat? Probably not, although don't discount the effect of Reggie Wayne finally moving to the right side where he belongs. But if you have all four guys on the field in Wayne/Gonzo/Clark/#3 WR, the opposing defense will have to play a nickel (if not dime) defense. They have to put a nickel back on the third receiver, there's no way they'd leave a linebacker on him.

But I feel it in my bones that Polian's exact mindset is that they need a deep threat, because Harrison used to be a deep threat and they had great offensive success at that time when that was the case. As though that success laughably hinged on Harrison's speed instead of Peyton having other weapons in Wayne/Stokley/Clark/Edge/Pollard to count on. That is how his mind works, I just know it.

While Polian does tend toward offense, I don't think his thought process is that simplistic. I think he'll look at the offense, see how many injuries it had, consider how much potential was lost based on certain players being missing, and look more at the defensive side of the ball, where the Colts NEED help at DT. Besides, he's already started talking about WR being a priority, and I've never known Polian to talk to the media about his team's top priority.

chad72
01-20-2009, 01:32 PM
There's a novel idea! Instead of focusing so much on speed, how about instead focusing on getting another receiver who can get off press coverage? Reggie Wayne is a stud in the postseason, yet has likely never been the fastest receiver on his team in any season.

Will an opponent play as much Cover 2 without a deep threat? Probably not, although don't discount the effect of Reggie Wayne finally moving to the right side where he belongs. But if you have all four guys on the field in Wayne/Gonzo/Clark/#3 WR, the opposing defense will have to play a nickel (if not dime) defense. They have to put a nickel back on the third receiver, there's no way they'd leave a linebacker on him.

But I feel it in my bones that Polian's exact mindset is that they need a deep threat, because Harrison used to be a deep threat and they had great offensive success at that time when that was the case. As though that success laughably hinged on Harrison's speed instead of Peyton having other weapons in Wayne/Stokley/Clark/Edge/Pollard to count on. That is how his mind works, I just know it.

Whether it was lack of timing with his WRs or Manning missing TC, Manning's deep ball failed him consistently this year. That allowed teams to play Manning like, sorry to say, Chad Pennington, concentrating and taking away most of the underneath routes. If Peyton connected on that deep pass to Wayne to begin with in the Chargers playoff game, you would have seen the Chargers D soften up a bit and we may have had some more good runs. The threat of the deep ball needs to be there. Larry Fitzgerald is the sole reason why the Cardinals are going to the Super Bowl. He forces teams to soften underneath a little more thus allowing Edge to have his runs when Warner does not throw.

I would not compare the Colts to the other SB team this year, the Steelers by any means because in character and make up, we are more like the Cardinals than the Steelers. Being a defensive backs coach, I expect Tomlin to give enough underneath for Warner and squeeze the windows on long passes. If Warner is smart, he will take the underneath ones.

I know you are not one that is fond of Marvin Harrison but you cannot deny what he brought to the table 2 years ago when he was a bigger deep ball threat, whether it was as a decoy or being double teamed allowing the Clarks and Waynes to roam freely. In fact, Harrison was beating Jammer consistently at the line of scrimmage in the Chargers game that Jammer eventually started giving Marvin a cushion. Sad to say but Marvin was not looked at a lot of times, especially when Gonzo left with a hip injury and thus both were not a factor in the second half.

When your offense has more punts than first downs for the first time in a long time in the regular season, one does have to wonder whether the offense is going in the right direction though we did enough to win regular season games.

Geo
01-20-2009, 01:34 PM
1. The only place that actually reported Polian saying wide receiver was their foremost priority was the Indystar. So maybe he did tell them only but definitely isn't telling the world, or goodness knows how they came with this story because it's not like Polian ever had a Q&A session during either Dungy/Caldwell presser and why he would say much to the Indystar of all papers.

2. I don't know if Polian is that type of guy, where he would deliberately say WR now to throw potential competitors for other players off.

3. Especially when the Colts will draft a WR this April.

4. Polian did talk about NT as the foremost goal during the season, udnerstandable though given the two prominent defections from last year's squad and the struggles at the time. Although it die down some after getting Antonio Johnson.

Geo
01-20-2009, 01:47 PM
Whether it was lack of timing with his WRs or Manning missing TC, Manning's deep ball failed him consistently this year. That allowed teams to play Manning like, sorry to say, Chad Pennington, concentrating and taking away most of the underneath routes. If Peyton connected on that deep pass to Wayne to begin with in the Chargers playoff game, you would have seen the Chargers D soften up a bit and we may have had some more good runs. The threat of the deep ball needs to be there. Larry Fitzgerald is the sole reason why the Cardinals are going to the Super Bowl. He forces teams to soften underneath a little more thus allowing Edge to have his runs when Warner does not throw.
Fitz is a beast and one of kind, plus his postseason run this year is literally historic because he just broke the record for most postseason receiving yards. So it's hard to compare anyone to that ... but in a general sense, I think Reggie Wayne brings that type of ability in the postseason. He comes up with a big play and catches, and he can score touchdowns (8 TDs in 13 postseason games, <3). Gonzo might get close too, Dallas Clark though is big for moving the chains and possibly in the red zone.

I would not compare the Colts to the other SB team this year, the Steelers by any means because in character and make up, we are more like the Cardinals than the Steelers. Being a defensive backs coach, I expect Tomlin to give enough underneath for Warner and squeeze the windows on long passes. If Warner is smart, he will take the underneath ones.
An argument for a speedy receiver is probably Santonio Holmes, who has been big for the Steelers the last two games. He's come up with big plays that one could argue changed the games.

I know you are not one that is fond of Marvin Harrison but you cannot deny what he brought to the table 2 years ago when he was a bigger deep ball threat, whether it was as a decoy or being double teamed allowing the Clarks and Waynes to roam freely. In fact, Harrison was beating Jammer consistently at the line of scrimmage in the Chargers game that Jammer eventually started giving Marvin a cushion.
Marvin in 2006 sucked during the postseason, he was terrible. In fact, Peyton threw 6 of his interceptions during that playoff run throwing at Harrison. Granted, Harrison was playing with a wrist and maybe an arm injury too, but he wasn't a factor at all in their Super Bowl run.

To be honest though, I was thinking more of Harrison in the 3 years before that, from 2003 to 2005. He was better.

Sad to say but Marvin was not looked at a lot of times, especially when Gonzo left with a hip injury and thus both were not a factor in the second half.
Gonzo has gotten nicked up a bit in the last two years. Also, I've been meaning to say this forever:

Is it just me or does it seem as though Anthony Gonzalez has small hands? Just the way he lets balls through his hands/fingers, and the way he holds a ball which worries me he might fumble. I still love the guy though.

Plus thankfully he's a Chargers killer. I was wondering why he didn't play more against the Chargers, I missed the hip injury which might have been a reaggravation. Also, Gonzo is awesome whenever he's interviewed, he can be surprisingly funny.

When your offense has more punts than first downs for the first time in a long time in the regular season, one does have to wonder whether the offense is going in the right direction though we did enough to win regular season games.
I think the struggles of the running game, which I would tie to the struggles of the offensive line, had the most to do with this.

Geo
01-21-2009, 01:19 AM
... some blurbs on how he looked today.

Ole Miss DT Peria Jerry was a man amongst boys today. Whether it was using his strength to put 380+ pound Herman Johnson on his back or getting a good push to get the best of Eric Wood on multiple occasions the guy just looked like a stud. Coming into this game I felt Jerry was a first round talent and now there is no doubt in my mind. This guy is making himself some money.

Peria Jerry/DT/Mississippi: Jerry is standing out to NFL decision makers not only as a football player but also a leader on the field. He has displayed good quickness off the snap and really pushes the pocket as an interior defender. Jerry's ability to shoot gaps and disrupt offenses has been apparent to all at the Senior Bowl.

I only spotted him once or twice myself on the NFLN broadcast, but saw him look very good in those plays (it was offense vs defense drills, not the one-on-one lineman drills).

fischbowl
01-21-2009, 01:21 AM
2nd Round Pick was Vance Walker. Jensen stole Marks from under me two picks ahead

RCAChainGang
01-21-2009, 08:13 AM
I am a huge fan of Muhhamed Masaquoi... What do you guys think of him.
I know he has the drops, but he is extremely physical and runs good routes.

chad72
01-21-2009, 08:31 PM
If Peria Jerry and B.J.Raji dominate the Senior Bowl, which they seem like they are in line to do, it reduces the chances for them to fall to the Colts.

Next year's crop of DTs ain't that strong, IMO.

So, if B.J.Raji is gone but Peria Jerry is not gone at #20 where the Detroit Lions pick for the 2nd time in the 1st round, I would not mind BP giving up our 1st and 3rd rounder for Peria Jerry or a future 1st rounder and current 3rd rounder, if he is there. The former might be more viable for Detroit which needs help on several fronts right now.

But if no trade is done and those 2 are gone when the Colts pick, the pick has no DT written all over it.:) BP will not reach for an early 2nd round DT at the end of the first round. Then the DT will come in the second round.

Now that Larry Coyer is the new DC, he might try to bring a Denver style 4-3 with a Cover 3 shell by changing it up a tad bit (the Colts have played Cover 3 occasionally from time to time anyway). That would mean solid DTs in the middle is a must and good CBs too, which could mean CB in the first round??

Geo
01-21-2009, 09:08 PM
1. Peria Jerry is indeed beasting at Mobile. Even though his age is a major turn-off, I'm starting to overlook it.

2. If Peria Jerry gets past Tampa at #19, which I think he might because they really need a wide receiver, then I would say his chances of reaching the Colts' pick are very good (barring a later team trading up of course).

Maybe Detroit at #20 I suppose, but otherwise, you've got a couple of 3-4 teams and some 4-3 teams that already have their long-term 3 tech tackles (Williams in Minnesota, Babineaux in Atlanta).


3. I would definitely disagree on the strength of next year's DT class, but we'll see.

4. I wouldn't trade up for Jerry though, personally. I'd rather stay as is and pick up a DT later, maybe one of Evander Hood, Sen'Derrick Marks, or Fili Moala in the late 2nd round for example, if I wanted a DT badly.

5. I think the only thing missing from this defense is a good DT to rotate with Johnson/Foster/Dawson. You can upgrade at some positions, but everything else is in place imo.

RCAChainGang
01-22-2009, 09:10 AM
1. Peria Jerry is indeed beasting at Mobile. Even though his age is a major turn-off, I'm starting to overlook it.

2. If Peria Jerry gets past Tampa at #19, which I think he might because they really need a wide receiver, then I would say his chances of reaching the Colts' pick are very good (barring a later team trading up of course).

Maybe Detroit at #20 I suppose, but otherwise, you've got a couple of 3-4 teams and some 4-3 teams that already have their long-term 3 tech tackles (Williams in Minnesota, Babineaux in Atlanta).


3. I would definitely disagree on the strength of next year's DT class, but we'll see.

4. I wouldn't trade up for Jerry though, personally. I'd rather stay as is and pick up a DT later, maybe one of Evander Hood, Sen'Derrick Marks, or Fili Moala in the late 2nd round for example, if I wanted a DT badly.

5. I think the only thing missing from this defense is a good DT to rotate with Johnson/Foster/Dawson. You can upgrade at some positions, but everything else is in place imo.

Yeah, I agree with this post a whole lot. Our defense is solid we just are missing our key interior pass rush. And like someone said earlier (I believe it was MaxV or Dam) QB's just have to step up in the pocket and they are fine.

Peria Jerry is a stud, but we have other DT's that we can take later. All that you mentioned I think would take the roll well. It is really the same with WR. If Harvin goes we can get LaFell or Masaquoi. I'm really excited about our defense and our offense next year. It is going to be really interesting.

The only position I would like to comment on is safety. Bob Sanders only plays half the season God bless him but when he's not out there there is a significant difference. We need a solid guy to be a good backup for when he's out. Wich is my boy Melvin Bullit, but honestly I would like to see Bethea out. Melvin taking his place would make our defense better. Bethea takes poor angles (like the last Sphroles run in overtime) and if we didn't run a cover two he would have shown he is not a capable starter.

Good post Geo. I agree with the fact our defense is set when healthy. There really isn't much to be done.

Geo
01-27-2009, 09:28 PM
Something to keep in mind:

The Colts will have interviewed most if not every prospect at the Senior Bowl, at one time or another during the week. That’s one of the benefits of the Senior Bowl, beyond just seeing the players firsthand in drills and practices. One might argue a greater benefit, seeing as contact at the Combine is limited given the severe time restrictions and the sheer number of prospects.

So to say someone (even Scott, who does a super job) spotted a team official talking with a prospect after practice, that doesn’t necessarily mean you can start wondering what number that player will get on the roster, heh. This is just a small part of the Colts’ great scouting staff doing its annual due diligence.

RCAChainGang
01-29-2009, 09:24 AM
I have yet to watch the senior bowl and do my scouting. I have had a lot going on. I got it on my DVR. Did Peria Jerry do well? Cause if he did then he might not fall to us. :/

MaxV
02-02-2009, 12:24 PM
I see I'm convincing you guys about Mitch King.

Don't let his size fool you, some 300lbs DTs don't have his strength. And his quickness is obviously very good.

Combine that with this motor and you have a nightmare matchup for any OL.

Geo
02-02-2009, 03:12 PM
I like King, but personally there's no way I would draft him before the late 6th.

Geo
02-02-2009, 03:30 PM
Also, re: the Colts' 1st round pick, basically whoever the best player is there, I'm good with. The most important thing for me is quality, that's what the Colts need at this point. Whichever best player fell through the Top 20 to the Colts, I'd like him.

So for example, if it's RB LeSean McCoy - even though Joseph Addai has two years left and I still fully believe in him - so be it.

fischbowl
02-02-2009, 09:45 PM
Fischbowl's Forum Mock Final Results

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f5/Indianapolis_Colts_helmet_rightface.png/135px-Indianapolis_Colts_helmet_rightface.png

QB: Manning > Sorgi
HB: Addai > Rhodes > Sheets>Simpson > Ball > Hart > Dawson
H-B: Tamme
WR: Wayne > Baskett>Hall > Garcon > Smith
WR: Harvin> Gonzalez > Giguere
TE: Clark > Tamme > Santi > Petrowski
RT: Diem > Federkeil > Toudouze > Hilliard
RG: Pollak > Bussey
C: Saturday > Justice
LG: Lilja > Ch. Johnson > Richard
LT: Ugoh > Federkeil > Toudouze > Hilliard

RE: Freeney > Thomas > Howard
DT: Walker>Dawson > Muir
DT: Foster > Jean-Francois>Reid > An. Johnson
LE: Mathis > Brock > Cu. Johnson
ROLB: Keiaho > Hagler
MLB: Brackett > Philistin>Alexander
LOLB: Session > Wheeler
CB: Jackson> Jennings > Ratliff > Graham
CB: Hughes > Coe > Parson>Rushing > Foster
FS: Bethea > Bullitt > Condren
SS: Sanders >Wilson > Silva

K: Vinatieri
P: Smith
LS: Snow

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm133/fischbowl/harvin.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm133/fischbowl/walker.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm133/fischbowl/ricky.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm133/fischbowl/parson.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm133/fischbowl/sheets.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm133/fischbowl/philistin.jpg

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm133/fischbowl/bussey.jpg

All Comments Are Appreciated

chad72
02-03-2009, 09:15 PM
BP values route running a lot for his first round picks, how polished is Percy Harvin really on a route running basis? He would be considerably different from the WRs we have drafted in the past. I am not so sure if he is as polished as a Harrison, Wayne, or Gonzo from the route running point of view. But yes, he makes plays. Hey, we had a Buckeye win MVP in SB XLIII, maybe Gonzo wins it next year? Let us hope.:)

Vance Walker, not sure either. Based on the Colts interest in Ron Brace and Ziggy Hood, it seems like one of them will be the DT we covet.

Another possibility is a trade down, which I think could happen. Here is the NFL trade value chart:

http://www.nflspot.com/index.php/ncaa-nfl-draft/draft-resources/trade-value-chart.html

Based on that, our pick at 27th is valued at 680 points. If Ron Brace is available at the Seahawks' 2nd round pick, we could trade down and give the Seahawks our 1st round pick in exchange for their 2nd round pick (valued at 540), 4th round pick (valued at 100) and 5th round pick (valued at 40).

That is a scenario I would love to have, get Ron Brace of BC, and get 2 more draft picks, if the Seahawks would be up for it. Remember, BP, when he traded down for Sanders, he traded with the Falcons. When he traded for Tony Ugoh, he traded with the 49ers. His tendency is to trade only with NFC teams, hence I threw the Seahawks name out there plus the value chart match looking so good:).

Geo
02-03-2009, 09:16 PM
I don't see the point in trading down, personally.

Unless it involves a 2010 1st round pick.

Geo
02-05-2009, 02:51 PM
Scott's pre-Combine mock has the Colts taking Percy Harvin in the 1st and Sen'Derrick Marks in the 2nd. Thoughts? Anything you would have done differently, looking at the mock?


I dig it, I think it's pretty much the ideal Day One. Depending if the Colts address linebacker early, given the roster situation and possibly getting another future starter. But I think Harvin and Marks are perfect.

redviper311
02-05-2009, 03:51 PM
Scott's pre-Combine mock has the Colts taking Percy Harvin in the 1st and Sen'Derrick Marks in the 2nd. Thoughts? Anything you would have done differently, looking at the mock?


I dig it, I think it's pretty much the ideal Day One. Depending if the Colts address linebacker early, given the roster situation and possibly getting another future starter. But I think Harvin and Marks are perfect.


I love it!!!!!!

killxswitch
02-06-2009, 10:01 AM
Scott's pre-Combine mock has the Colts taking Percy Harvin in the 1st and Sen'Derrick Marks in the 2nd. Thoughts? Anything you would have done differently, looking at the mock?


I dig it, I think it's pretty much the ideal Day One. Depending if the Colts address linebacker early, given the roster situation and possibly getting another future starter. But I think Harvin and Marks are perfect.

Unless Caldwell, Moore, and Peyton sit down this offseason and come up with some creative plays I think Harvin would be wasted talent in this offense. I like the idea and the KR/PR possibilities, but I am not sure he is right for us. If used correctly he could be fantastic and exactly the boost the Colts' stale offense needs.

I like the Marks pick. If we got Brace in the 3rd and Max King or Rashad Jennings in the 4th then I'd say screw the rest of the draft, that's a winner right there.

RCAChainGang
02-06-2009, 11:21 PM
I like the idea of Harvin going to the Colts. Thats my ideal first pick and Sen'Derrick Marks is very impressive. I have looked at him as a prospect for DT.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
02-07-2009, 10:32 AM
Harvin will be a waste of a pick. The young wr's are talented enough to be a slot or possibly second option. We already have clark, wayne and gonzo, how many weapons does peyton need? Preferably i'd want to spend as many draft picks on the defense as we can. Hate to be a broken record, but bottomline defense wins championships. If you want to see this again http://pigskinpreacher.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/peyton-manning-with-super-bowl-trophy.jpg

We need defense.

Geo
02-07-2009, 02:11 PM
I don't think anyone will argue that defense is definitely needed to win in the playoffs, especially in the AFC. Two things stick out in my mind though:

1. It's not as though the Colts can't improve the defense without using their 1st round pick.

2. Talent wins championships. Teams win championships. Not just defense, you need your offense (and maybe special teams) to come through too at critical times.

You don't need to look farther than the '08 Steelers for a recent example.

______________________________________________

I want a defensive playmaker too, believe me. But you can't pass up a better offensive player, if the guy is right there for you. 2007 is a pretty good example, if you look back, is there a 2nd round defensive player you take over Anthony Gonzalez? I wanted the Colts to draft Lamarr Woodley, who is a stud for the Steelers, but I'm not sure I'd trade Gonzo for him (it helps that Freeney was signed long-term afterwards). Both players are in the best fits for them, I think.

Linebacker-wise, David Harris? I dig him, although playing 3-4 ILB is a better fit for him than playing MLB in this defense. Paul Poz is solid, Justin Durant could be really good at either MLB or WLB ... although I can't say I would take those guys over Gonzo either.

_____________________________________________

As for this year, well, who would you consider the best players potentially available for the Colts?

My answer will be in the next post, I'll just answer with an updated big board I suppose.

MaxV
02-07-2009, 04:30 PM
I agree with an idea of using the 1st round pick on the BPA. But if value is fairly equal, I prefer defense over offense.

Harvin intrigues me, but he is a project and we are a team that is in a win-now mode. We need players that will contribute quickly.

Geo
02-07-2009, 04:48 PM
I guess you could say this is my Super Six. The guys who I think are the best players and could potentially be available for the Colts in the 1st round. All six could very well be off the board before the Colts' pick, it's quite conceivable. However I very much don't see trading up as a likely option.

Okay, here goes, in alphabetical order:


Percy Harvin, wide receiver
Not near as polished as previous 1st round wide receiver draft picks, although on talent alone, you might not always find someone as talented as Harvin at the 27th overall pick every year. A playmaker in the forms of a deep threat, a dynamic return man, and a YAC producer - all areas the Colts could definitely improve upon and benefit from.

Peria Jerry, defensive tackle
His age and durability are concerns, he's a bit top-heavy and sloppy in build, and he might not be the sharpest kid in the classroom however I don't think that's as big a concern at this position (as say maybe Harvin at WR). I do think he would be perfect for the Colts, as a 3-tech to play next to Antonio Johnson on regular downs and then slide inside to NT on pass-rushing downs as Raheem Brock moves inside. Hard to look past the age though, a guy who will be 30 years old after his rookie contract, in a draft class with some good 3-techs. But he could probably start day one, so if he stays healthy, could still produce the same amount of productive years in the NFL.

James Laurinaitis, linebacker
The linebackers were probably the most disappointing defensive unit in 2008, I'd say, although Clint Session is a real bright spot. Not so much with Freddy Keiaho, who seems to take two plays back for every good play - he needs to improve or follow Cato June in wearing another uniform soon. And Gary Brackett is entering the last year of his contract, he'll be 30 years old come next offseason. Unless the Colts feel the talented youngster Philip Wheeler can succeed him, they need to find Brackett's successor in the next two drafts (or possibly free agency? Re-sign Brackett?). Laurinaitis looks to be a perfect fit. He's not a thumper, but he diagnoses plays well, can slip through blockers at times, and probably drops back in coverage as well as any MLB prospect as we've seen in the last decade's worth.

Alex Mack, center
Mack is a stellar player and can start day one from somewhere on your interior offensive line. Now, the Colts have two gems from last year in Mike Pollak and 7th round surprise Jamey Richard, both guys with a lot of promise. So the need factor might discount Mack some, although as a player, I think he's well worth this pick in terms of value/talent.

LeSean McCoy, runningback
McCoy reminds me of Reggie Bush in his running style, which might make some reading this cringe, but I think of that as a compliment myself. Interesting note though, McCoy has actually averaged 4.82 yards per carry in his collegiate career, so he doesn't fit Polian's 1st round RB formula. Still, he was the offense at Pittsburgh and anyone can see he's an explosive back (which I think he'll cement at the Combine). Similar case to Mack, in that the Colts have Joseph Addai for at least two more years, but if the talent is right there you have to consider it.

Alphonso Smith, cornerback
Smith shining throughout Senior Bowl was of no surprise to me, and he shouldn't even be reaching this pick. Teams are bound to overlook him because of his height however, which is a shame ... although perhaps good fortune for the Colts. The desirability of Smith as a prospect is tied to the futures of Kelvin Hayden and Marlin Jackson though, because spending a 1st round pick on a long-term #3 corner isn't very likely.

Geo
02-07-2009, 04:58 PM
Btw, on the next tier I have guys who could be worth the pick, but each have a question or two about them heading into the evaluation process:

Kenny Britt- speed; football intelligence
Darrius Heyward-Bey- lack of production; route running; football intelligence
DJ Moore- pretty much same case as Alphonso Smith, really
Hakeem Nicks- speed/quickness; football intelligence
Brian Robiskie- speed/quickness
Clint Sintim- speed/quickness; fit in the defense

I think that's it, primarily. The LT prospect Beaty from UConn might be here, but I think he needs a lot of development so I'll leave him off. The safeties, I'm not particularly crazy about and Vontae Davis has real question marks.

MaxV
02-07-2009, 05:38 PM
Not Alex Mack. Please NO MORE CENTERS. No more TEs as well.

I think OT is a real possibility.

Jerry is the top target for me. As a matter of fact, if he falls within 5 picks before ours, we should try to trade up.

killxswitch
02-09-2009, 01:57 PM
Who would you guys put into the 2nd tier of DTs in this draft? I assume Ziggy Hood, Sen'Derrick Marks, maybe Moala? I've never been that impressed with Marks and would rather wait for Jarron Gilbert, Jean-Francois, or even Mitch King.

MaxV
02-09-2009, 03:56 PM
I like Marks in the 2nd round. I think he can be productive in our defense.

I would also add Vance Walker into the 2nd tier. He has pretty good quickness.

chad72
02-12-2009, 10:20 AM
Btw, on the next tier I have guys who could be worth the pick, but each have a question or two about them heading into the evaluation process:

Kenny Britt- speed; football intelligence
Darrius Heyward-Bey- lack of production; route running; football intelligence
DJ Moore- pretty much same case as Alphonso Smith, really
Hakeem Nicks- speed/quickness; football intelligence
Brian Robiskie- speed/quickness
Clint Sintim- speed/quickness; fit in the defense

I think that's it, primarily. The LT prospect Beaty from UConn might be here, but I think he needs a lot of development so I'll leave him off. The safeties, I'm not particularly crazy about and Vontae Davis has real question marks.

I would add Percy Harvin's route running as a concern, personally. The question is, if BP will spend a first round pick on someone who will primarily be used in his first year as a KR/PR. People like Gonzo that get up to speed with the playbook in the first year do not come around every year, otherwise we would see rookie WRs tearing it up in the NFL. Rookie RBs tear it up more, an easier position for a rookie to play.

I really really hope Alphonso Smith is available for us for our first pick if B.J.Raji and Peria Jerry are gone (hopefully the Vikings, Bears, Jets, Dolphins all pass on CB needs:)). It is too much to bank on the doctor's words alone on Marlin Jackson coming back healthy, in shape, and in top form before the start of the regular season. So, a #3 corner might very well end up being our #2 corner, it is an insurance I am willing to take. Plus, besides Kelvin Hayden, we have T.J.Rushing, Michael Coe, Dante Hughes, Keiwan Ratliff and Tim Jennings at CB, out of which Tim Jennings has gotten the most playing time. If Larry Coyer needs to keep a press coverage corner, Keiwan Ratliff is a better candidate than Tim Jennings, IMO.

If Brady is back and is winging it and we play nickel, I want someone better than Tim Jennings on the field as the 3rd CB. Plus, we play Kurt Warner and the Cards too.

Larry Coyer has experience with both man-to-man and zone-coverage schemes and I am sure he will use our personnel the best.

Plus, I do believe we will draft our free safety replacement for Bethea and cut him loose after this year. David Bruton will be sitting pretty for us for the pick at round #4. 3 out of our first 4 picks could be defensive picks, IMO.

Geo
02-12-2009, 10:37 AM
Good point on Harvin.

Re: safety, think Melvin Bullitt could play next to Bob Sanders?

killxswitch
02-12-2009, 10:51 AM
I question more than just Harvin's route running. I question his ability to be an effective part of this offense anytime in the next 2-3 years. He is a screen runner, a trick play artist, a great athlete who hasn't been asked to do many things that resemble an NFL WR. Manning doesn't have time to wait around while he develops. Same with Heyward-Bey though to a lesser extent. Manning has enough 1st round toys to play with anyway, he should be able to do well enough with Garcon or a cheaper FA pickup like Devery Henderson or Mike Furrey.