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Buttered toast sonic
05-15-2008, 03:26 AM
if I remember correctly, McCoy is eligible for 09, right? if so, in what (early on) Looks to be a very deep class at RB, is McCoy the best?

AkiliSmith
05-15-2008, 05:36 AM
Chris Wells is the best prospect

Caddy
05-15-2008, 06:00 AM
He is a sophomore but I believe he spent a year at a prep school so I think he is available for the draft should he decide to declare.

In regards to the running back class I think it could resemble last years. A weak senior class infused with a lot of junior/red-shirt sophomore talent.

eaglesalltheway
05-15-2008, 07:20 AM
I agree with the two previous posts.

foozball
05-15-2008, 12:09 PM
chris wells and lesean mccoy are at the head of the pack right now

i think knowshon moreno is 3rd right now and fits in the 20-30 range

javarris james, keiland williams, james davis, andre brown, cj spiller, arian foster, javon ringer, and marlon lucky are in that 3rd tier that will go in the 2nd-3rd round area.

chris wells- good size, speed, and power

lesean mccoy- big upside, good size and speed, natural runner, can catch

knowshon moreno- runs hard and has power. maybe not as naturally gifted as mccoy though

keiland williams- good size and could be a complete RB but inexperienced

james davis- decent size, good speed, but probably needs to be in a 2 back system. kind of a tweener back in that he's not small enough that he really NEEDS to be in a 2 back system, but not quite big enough that you can count on him being an every down back.

andre brown- huge guy with sub 4.5 speed. great power. enormous upside but not as productive as he should be. could make a big jump if he stays healthy and get to the #3 or 4 spot.

marlon lucky- has decent size, good speed, and can catch the ball. similar to james davis but not quite as fast.

javarris james- good size and speed but had a very poor year which knocks his stock down.

arian foster- good size and power and productivity, but probably 4.55 speed. needs a complimentary back to play with.

cj spiller- big play ability but lacks size. could be the felix jones of the draft.

javon ringer- a little small and not quite as powerful as ray rice. very productive though

pj hill- productive and powerful, but lacks speed and big play ability.

the way i ranked them was that guys who could be primary backs and never have to come out of the game were ranked higher than guys who were considered just speed backs or just power backs. however, some of the big guys and small guys will go before the prototypical primary backs just because teams employ the 2 back system and are looking for pieces for that system instead of just 1 complete RB.

kwilk103
05-15-2008, 03:49 PM
yea, the rule actually reads something like this:

you are eligable for the draft 3 years after you graduate or 3 years after the class which you entered hs with graduates

he didnt graduate on time, and went to prep; class of '06, so hes eligable

cant remember any other top prospects that did this; i think they actually reworded the rule after fitz

eaglesfan_45
05-15-2008, 05:45 PM
He's good but I don't think he will enter the draft this year, he would be the best RB in the '09 draft if he stayed.

art vandelay
05-15-2008, 05:56 PM
Andre Brown will be the big surprise of this draft. If he can return to his sophomore form, he's going to be a beast in the NFL.

Jonny
05-15-2008, 06:17 PM
McCoy won't be eligible. You have to have been qualified out of HS to leave as a sophomor after prepping. He prepped because he wasn't eligible.

kwilk103
05-16-2008, 12:06 AM
McCoy won't be eligible. You have to have been qualified out of HS to leave as a sophomor after prepping. He prepped because he wasn't eligible.

wrong; they changed it after fitz


The NFL and NFLPA Collective Bargaining Agreement states that a player may only apply for eligibility in the NFL draft three years after his graduation from high school or graduation of the class with which he entered high school, whichever is earlier.

http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/enforcement/agents/sa_info/2008_NFLPA_Contract_Advisor_Regulations_FAQ.pdf


supposed to grad in '06

06---prep
07---freshman
08---soph

3 yrs after supposed to grad; hes can declare

SenorGato
05-16-2008, 12:08 AM
McCoy = Truf.

Personally, he's my favorite RB in this draft. If he weighs gains an extra 10 pounds I think he'll have a shot to be the first back taken.

Paranoidmoonduck
05-16-2008, 02:31 AM
The key will be which direction that Pittsburgh offense line goes in. Losing Jeff Otah and Mike McGlynn is not inconsequential by any stretch of the imagination. However, if McCoy manages to build on his numbers last year, there might be proper motivation to leave school after this year. He could well be in the running for the top back selected.

ammandss
05-20-2008, 11:16 AM
The only games I really paid attention to McCoy in was the Virginia and Rutgers games and he sucked in those game. All of his yards against Virginia were in garbage time and he constantly choked on 3rd down runs. His numbers are decent but he had pretty low rush averages in the big games: 4.5 Virginia, 2.7 Rutgers, 3.9 West Virginia, 6.4 Connecticut but only 10 carries, 5.5 Cincinnati is decent.

What makes people think that he could be the first RB taken. What has he done against good defenses.

And sorry for not watching the WVU-Pitt game... I should have. And I'm a huge Virginia fan so I went to that game and I live in the Jersey so I saw the Rutgers game too.

Mr. Stiller
06-03-2008, 11:36 PM
Chris Wells is the best prospect

I don't know, I'm waiting for this season to make the decision between Wells and Keiland Williams.

However, I'd probably take McCoy and Moreno over both of them. Depends on what I'm looking for.. it'd be between McCoy, Moreno and Williams.

Mr. Stiller
06-03-2008, 11:39 PM
The only games I really paid attention to McCoy in was the Virginia and Rutgers games and he sucked in those game. All of his yards against Virginia were in garbage time and he constantly choked on 3rd down runs. His numbers are decent but he had pretty low rush averages in the big games: 4.5 Virginia, 2.7 Rutgers, 3.9 West Virginia, 6.4 Connecticut but only 10 carries, 5.5 Cincinnati is decent.

What makes people think that he could be the first RB taken. What has he done against good defenses.

And sorry for not watching the WVU-Pitt game... I should have. And I'm a huge Virginia fan so I went to that game and I live in the Jersey so I saw the Rutgers game too.

Have you seen the Pitt offense? They lost their reliable #1 in Derek Kinder and their QB is pathetic. So terrible that he runs a 5.5 40' and is being redshirted this season because he needs major work.

McCoy was the ONLY offensive weapon on that team, still managed great yardage..

Despite not having the QB Talent/WR talent of LSU, Georgia, OSU.

kwilk103
06-04-2008, 02:19 AM
on a pitt board, everyone says hes gone

ammandss
06-04-2008, 01:32 PM
Have you seen the Pitt offense? They lost their reliable #1 in Derek Kinder and their QB is pathetic. So terrible that he runs a 5.5 40' and is being redshirted this season because he needs major work.

McCoy was the ONLY offensive weapon on that team, still managed great yardage..

Despite not having the QB Talent/WR talent of LSU, Georgia, OSU.

The issue is that I have seen the Pitt offense and it is quite offensive. However, McCoy did nothing as well. Just because the rest of the offense is pitiful, you still need to produce especially if people claim he is the top running back next year. From what I saw at the Virginia game, McCoy is nothing special at all - just a lot of hype.

urinemonkey
06-04-2008, 04:01 PM
I prefer both Moreno and Wells.

Pittsburghs_finest
06-07-2008, 01:16 PM
I have to laugh at the guy who claims McCoy is all hype. Saying he did not do anything until garbage time against Virginia is true. After the first 5 minutes of that game it was garbage time. Pitt had a true freshman QB last year who could not throw the ball more then 10 yards down field and that is not a lie. McCoy literally faced 9 man fronts. South Florida coach said he put 8 and 9 guys on the line every play and McCoy still got his. There was no passing threat at all and McCoy still got his yards. He is a special RB and you could put Wells or Moreno or any other RB you want on that Pitt team last year and he would not put up McCoys numbers.

djp
06-07-2008, 01:32 PM
I have to laugh at the guy who claims McCoy is all hype. Saying he did not do anything until garbage time against Virginia is true. After the first 5 minutes of that game it was garbage time. Pitt had a true freshman QB last year who could not throw the ball more then 10 yards down field and that is not a lie. McCoy literally faced 9 man fronts. South Florida coach said he put 8 and 9 guys on the line every play and McCoy still got his. There was no passing threat at all and McCoy still got his yards. He is a special RB and you could put Wells or Moreno or any other RB you want on that Pitt team last year and he would not put up McCoys numbers.

Says "Pittsburghs_finest"...

That is a ridiculous statement. And dumb. Wells and Moreno are both better than Shady.

Sorry, just still salty after he signed with Miami with no intentions of ever playing there (but got beat out by Graig Cooper at prep school :))

Hwoarang
06-07-2008, 03:26 PM
Wells is easily the best RB next year. It's a race for #2.

LonghornsLegend
06-07-2008, 03:48 PM
I saw an 09 mock that had McCoy going in the 3rd round, I'd like to think his stock will be higher then that because the underclassmen are pretty strong in this Rb class if they all come out...McCoy still reminds me alot of Fred Taylor, he makes great cuts and has good lateral ability, his straight line speed might not be the fastest but he makes up for it with excellent vision and finding holes.

doingthisinsteadofwork
06-07-2008, 07:02 PM
I like Wells and Moreno better than McCoy.

fenikz
06-07-2008, 07:42 PM
I would say that McCoy is the 2nd RB taken next year if he declares only behind Moreno

keylime_5
06-07-2008, 08:07 PM
I would say that McCoy is the 2nd RB taken next year if he declares only behind Moreno

Is that you Todd McShay? lol, j/k

Hwoarang
06-08-2008, 12:51 AM
Is that you Todd McShay? lol, j/kMcShay's smarter than that..

Byrd430
06-08-2008, 12:56 AM
Is that you A.C. Slater?

Hwoarang
06-08-2008, 12:58 AM
Is that you A.C. Slater?I go by Albert now.

Mr. Stiller
06-08-2008, 01:12 AM
The issue is that I have seen the Pitt offense and it is quite offensive. However, McCoy did nothing as well. Just because the rest of the offense is pitiful, you still need to produce especially if people claim he is the top running back next year. From what I saw at the Virginia game, McCoy is nothing special at all - just a lot of hype.

You saw 1 game and because of that McCoy is nothing special? Watch his whole body of work.

Especially the Michigan State and West Virginia Games.

WVU especially. McCoy & McKillop are the only reason Pitt wins that game.

Either one of those 2 guys missing, we lose to WVU. Easy.

Pittsburghs_finest
06-08-2008, 04:35 PM
Also going by that logic I saw Chris Long play twice against Pitt and both times Jeff Otah shut him down and he did nothing. I guess he sucks

ammandss
06-12-2008, 09:46 AM
You saw 1 game and because of that McCoy is nothing special? Watch his whole body of work.

Especially the Michigan State and West Virginia Games.

WVU especially. McCoy & McKillop are the only reason Pitt wins that game.

Either one of those 2 guys missing, we lose to WVU. Easy.

I'm not saying he isn't good or even great. I'm just saying that he got shut down in the games I saw. I should have watched the WVU game but I missed it. I was expecting him to do a lot more and he didn't show me anything in the games I watched.

I also understand that he is going to have difficulty producing with a bad QB, so I was asking why is he considered so good. There are plenty of big HS prospect who don't produce at the college level but don't have the hype that McCoy has. Longhorn Legend is the only one who actually answered the question.

As for Pittsburghs Finest, I'm not going to comment on those remarks.

keylime_5
06-12-2008, 10:34 AM
McShay's smarter than that..

hardly, his top 2 backs for 2009 are mccoy and moreno. kiper's top back is clearly wells.

Mr. Stiller
06-12-2008, 07:20 PM
I'm not saying he isn't good or even great. I'm just saying that he got shut down in the games I saw. I should have watched the WVU game but I missed it. I was expecting him to do a lot more and he didn't show me anything in the games I watched.

I also understand that he is going to have difficulty producing with a bad QB, so I was asking why is he considered so good. There are plenty of big HS prospect who don't produce at the college level but don't have the hype that McCoy has. Longhorn Legend is the only one who actually answered the question.

As for Pittsburghs Finest, I'm not going to comment on those remarks.

It's kind of watching the best player on a terrible team. You have to look for the vision, speed, power, shiftiness, hands and he excels in all that. He may not be 4.3 speed, but he certainly has good speed (High 4.4's?).

I Think if he had the 2006 Pitt team with Kinder and Palko he would've been even better because he had no help from the passing game. And while Pitt had a decent OL, they're only good players were Otah and McGlynn.

Then you look at Keiland Williams, Chris Wells who will likely both have their entire OL's starting at some point in the NFL (I Know not all 5 but a good % of them)

Mr. Stiller
06-12-2008, 07:21 PM
hardly, his top 2 backs for 2009 are mccoy and moreno. kiper's top back is clearly wells.

Therefore McShay isn't smart?

You're never going to have McShay, Kiper and Mayock agree.

I do put more stock in both McShay and Mayock.

I think Moreno and McCoy are the top RB's this season, regardless of Beanie wells.

TheIncredibleDraftDude
06-16-2008, 08:42 AM
Put McCoy in H-back sort of role ala chris Cooley. Make him gain some pounds (like 250 lbs) and you'll have a dominant player. The kid has got all the tools needed. Looking forward to a 1500 all purpose yard season.

Cigaro
06-16-2008, 09:58 AM
james davis- decent size, good speed, but probably needs to be in a 2 back system. kind of a tweener back in that he's not small enough that he really NEEDS to be in a 2 back system, but not quite big enough that you can count on him being an every down back.

I hate Clemson, but I obviously know more about them than you, as James Davis can make it in the NFL as an every-down. He's twenty times as tough a runner than his teammate Spiller.

Put McCoy in H-back sort of role ala chris Cooley. Make him gain some pounds (like 250 lbs) and you'll have a dominant player. The kid has got all the tools needed. Looking forward to a 1500 all purpose yard season.

****

keylime_5
06-16-2008, 01:15 PM
Therefore McShay isn't smart?

You're never going to have McShay, Kiper and Mayock agree.

I do put more stock in both McShay and Mayock.

I think Moreno and McCoy are the top RB's this season, regardless of Beanie wells.

Mcshay is the biggest idiot in draft analysis I've ever seen on tv. I don't know how that guy gets paid for his opinions, he doesn't know crap about scouting and everytime I see them on tv together kiper makes a fool of him.

1-Beanie





2-McCoy
3-Moreno
not having wells number one is either being an OSU hater or not having seen the three play. In college ball they are a lot closer together, but in terms of NFL potential Wells is in that elite or near elite level as a RB prospect, Moreno and McCoy are in that Lynch, Mendenhall tier as picks between 10-25 somewhere; anything higher than 15 being a slight slight reach.

Paranoidmoonduck
06-16-2008, 02:49 PM
That's a pretty broad statement on value considering that value isn't inherent to any player (it's based on the quality of the players in their class), and not a single one of those players has been out of high school for more than two years.

I'm not sure I see Wells as an "elite" runningback. The guy has put up a total of 7 receptions in his first two years at Ohio State and he ran behind a truly massive offensive line last season. We know he can push a pile and we know he's got good feet and speed for being 235+ lbs, but if I'm comparing him to the last 3 "elite" runners (Reggie Bush, Adrian Peterson, Darren McFadden), he's a notch or two below them heading into this season.

Moreno and McCoy might well be two years from entering the draft, but there are distinct things to like about both of them.

keylime_5
06-16-2008, 06:14 PM
Wells isn't at Peterson or AD or Bush's prospect level yet but with another year like he had last year except fully healthy all year and he will be. He has the speed, power, vision, power, size and power to be ahead of all of them except probably Peterson. Lots can change in a year. However McCoy and Moreno aren't as physically gifted as Wells, barring something incredible their chances of being a better RB prospect than Wells are very slim. They would either have to have an unbelievable year on the field or Wells a bad one or if Wells gets hurt. Right now Wells is top 10 lock good and the other two are 10-25 good.

Sniper
06-16-2008, 06:58 PM
Chris Wells is a MAN! Dude is a straight up baller. I really don't see too many flaws in his game, and sweet Jesus, that stiff arm.

Hwoarang
06-16-2008, 07:44 PM
hardly, his top 2 backs for 2009 are mccoy and moreno. kiper's top back is clearly wells.Wells is clearly my #1 back too but McShay is coming up fast and Kiper knows it. Overall I like Todd's rankings more than Kiper.

Mcshay is the biggest idiot in draft analysis I've ever seen on tv. I don't know how that guy gets paid for his opinions, he doesn't know crap about scouting and everytime I see them on tv together kiper makes a fool of him.

You didn't watch the draft did you? Todd make him look stupid.

keylime_5
06-16-2008, 07:49 PM
Todd doesn't know anything about scouting college talent for the NFL. There was an article about it a while back too I remember. Todd's rankings are basically see where everyone says the players will go, not where he thinks they should go ala Mayock or Kiper. Todd even talked about how much he didn't like Brady Quinn in 2007 and then had him ranked fairly high just because that was where he heard he would go. If he had done what he though they should be he wouldve been right in that case......but much more often than not where he wants to put guys is ridiculous. If you cut McShay off from the world during the predraft process and let him watch the film and see the measurables and read the interview notes, and then on draft day told him to show us his mock and rankings it'd be a joke. Kiper and Mayock >>>>>>>>>McShay. Mayock just might be the best, he is bold and it pays off.

Paranoidmoonduck
06-16-2008, 07:52 PM
Wells isn't at Peterson or AD or Bush's prospect level yet but with another year like he had last year except fully healthy all year and he will be.

Simply repeating isn't enough. If Wells can't prove he's a multifaceted threat, then that is a serious mark on his scouting report. It may be the difference between certain teams considering him as a full-fledged bell cow back or as a 2-down runner.

Yes, if Wells is healthy all year, gets 300+ carries, threatens 2000 yards (and therefore is, at the least, in the Heisman race), he's a major threat to go top 10. But I do have reservations about the guy, more so than I had about either Peterson or McFadden when they were heading into their respective junior (final) years.

Hwoarang
06-16-2008, 08:03 PM
I know Wells can run. How does he block and catch out of the back field?

Paranoidmoonduck
06-16-2008, 08:15 PM
I know Wells can run. How does he block and catch out of the back field?

I'll be honest and say that I don't watch Ohio State enough to get a feel for the consistency of Wells' blocking. I've seen plays where he's done well and plays where he hasn't, but I don't know which of these occurs more. I do know that he has no excuse if he isn't an above average blocker. He's larger than the average college linebacker.

As for catching the ball, he doesn't. Seven receptions in two years.

keylime_5
06-16-2008, 08:25 PM
Simply repeating isn't enough. If Wells can't prove he's a multifaceted threat, then that is a serious mark on his scouting report. It may be the difference between certain teams considering him as a full-fledged bell cow back or as a 2-down runner.

Yes, if Wells is healthy all year, gets 300+ carries, threatens 2000 yards (and therefore is, at the least, in the Heisman race), he's a major threat to go top 10. But I do have reservations about the guy, more so than I had about either Peterson or McFadden when they were heading into their respective junior (final) years.

That's what I meant, if he plays like he did last year but stays healthy all year then he'll have a monster heisman worthy season (that doesn't mean he'll win it unfortunately since the heisman has become the QB award it seems)

keylime_5
06-16-2008, 08:30 PM
I'll be honest and say that I don't watch Ohio State enough to get a feel for the consistency of Wells' blocking. I've seen plays where he's done well and plays where he hasn't, but I don't know which of these occurs more. I do know that he has no excuse if he isn't an above average blocker. He's larger than the average college linebacker.

As for catching the ball, he doesn't. Seven receptions in two years.

He isn't a part of the passing game really at all, they basically never throw it to him. When he is running routes and not blocking on passing plays he is basically the last option. He is not a super awesome blocker in the backfield, but he is decent and good enough to be an every down back. Wells is basically a power back who can run over people, stiff arm DBs to their deaths, get to the second level and bull over people, and wear defenses down. What seperates him from other power backs of his kind is his breakaway, homerun hitting ability. He can run when he gets daylight and break off a 50 or 60 yarder from time to time, the fact that he's not just a power runner to wear d's down like Jamal Lewis is why he is approaching that elite status and why he was the #1 overall player in his high school recruiting class.

What people often overlook when talking about RB prospects is vision it seems. Size and speed or good but without great vision the athleticism is a waste for a RB. Peterson, LT, and the three guys we've been talking about in this thread all have between above average to elite vision.

Paranoidmoonduck
06-16-2008, 08:41 PM
I will maintain that Wells is more quick than fast, but in the best way possible. He's very sudden for a big man, and his ability to make back-cuts (evidence of that vision you speak of) is impressive. As for his top speed, it's a step below elite.

He actually reminds me a lot of Jonathan Stewart, where his initial burst is good enough to get front facing defenders on their heels, but in a foot race he will get tracked down. If Wells weighs in close to 240 at the combine and can post a time close to what Stewart managed (4.48), then he's in great shape.

I don't really consider Wells a home run hitter at the NFL level, at least not in the way most runners picked in the top 10 are. He's definitely fast enough to do damage though. My big concern is whether he's a 3-down runner.

keylime_5
06-16-2008, 09:49 PM
Well he's not a homerun hitter like Peterson or LT or any of those backs who live off of speed/explosion and vision more than anything else. Beanie is a first step, explode through the hole guy who has more breakaway speed than Jamal Lewis or Deuce McAllister or Shaun Alexander, but his stiff arm and power and ability to break tackles and make guys miss in the open field combine to make him a guy who can take it to the house whenever he gets into the second level. A man with his abilities doesn't need the explosiveness of McFadden, Bush, and Peterson to get the big play AND average 5 ypc in the NFL imo.

Sniper
06-16-2008, 10:34 PM
Michigan and LSU disagree with the notion that Chris Wells is not a homerun threat (among others)

Paranoidmoonduck
06-16-2008, 10:49 PM
Michigan and LSU disagree with the notion that Chris Wells is not a homerun threat (among others)

There's a distinct difference between being able to get to the corner and outrun defenders at the college level and doing so at the professional level. It's not an exact science by any level, but if you almost never see a guy get caught from behind (or even better, see him pull away from defensive backs), then his speed probably translates well (assuming he isn't playing against remarkably slow competition).

Wells gets going quickly, but you see him get tracked down by defenders all the time.

Mr. Stiller
06-17-2008, 01:28 AM
I will maintain that Wells is more quick than fast, but in the best way possible. He's very sudden for a big man, and his ability to make back-cuts (evidence of that vision you speak of) is impressive. As for his top speed, it's a step below elite.

He actually reminds me a lot of Jonathan Stewart, where his initial burst is good enough to get front facing defenders on their heels, but in a foot race he will get tracked down. If Wells weighs in close to 240 at the combine and can post a time close to what Stewart managed (4.48), then he's in great shape.

I don't really consider Wells a home run hitter at the NFL level, at least not in the way most runners picked in the top 10 are. He's definitely fast enough to do damage though. My big concern is whether he's a 3-down runner.

I don't think Wells breaks 4.50.. I'm thinking he's a 4.52-4.55 type guy. He'll have a great 10 yard split, but his long distance speed will be average.

And thats why I think Moreno and McCoy can be better, they offer slightly less power, but have much more speed and are much better receivers. I think McCoy and Moreno have excellent vision, on par or better than Wells.

Not to mention the fact that neither Moreno or McCoy have near the offensive firepower that OSU Has.

OSU has a good stable of Receivers, a top 5 LT, top 5 G, and some other nice pieces.

Georgia and Pittsburgh don't have anyone this year.

Not to mention Beckman is much much much much much better than What PITT was starting back there last year.

keylime_5
06-17-2008, 10:14 AM
Michigan knew that they were gonna run Wells as much as they did, still over 200 yards. Same thing with LSU, the man had like 7 ypc in that game. There's more to it than the little things like who runs a faster forty and who can be a receiver out of the backfield. Wells is just a flat out better runner and he is a guy who can win you games if you give him the ball 20-25 times a game like LT or AD or Shaun Alexander and Eddie George were in their prime, the other two are just very good backs but not guys who win games.

Pittsburghs_finest
06-17-2008, 03:18 PM
LeSean McCoy won about.... 5 games last year. That is the point we are getting across by saying that Pitt had no other offensive weapon. It got to a point where the QB and offensive situation was so bad that they were forced to go to the wildcat package that McFadden ran because they had to get him the ball every play. Wells is a very good back but I don't think it is a given that he is that much better then Moreno or McCoy if he even is better then those two.

Mr. Stiller
06-17-2008, 08:15 PM
Michigan knew that they were gonna run Wells as much as they did, still over 200 yards. Same thing with LSU, the man had like 7 ypc in that game. There's more to it than the little things like who runs a faster forty and who can be a receiver out of the backfield.

Name the elite RB's. LT, AD... Both EXCELLENT RECEIVERS out of the backfield. I'm not concerned about 40's per se, but what good is an elite RB that is going to be caught 9/10 times he breaks away? Thats not elite. Are you going to ignore the features of Elite RB's that don't play to Wells strengths and to McCoy/Moreno's?

Again, you had a better OL, Better defense, Better skills players than Pitt/Georgia.

Wells needs to show he can't be caught 9/10 times, show better hands out of the backfield.

You can't discount Moreno's and McCoy's abilities just because you WANT Wells to be superior.

Wells is just a flat out better runner and he is a guy who can win you games if you give him the ball 20-25 times a game like LT or AD or Shaun Alexander and Eddie George were in their prime, the other two are just very good backs but not guys who win games.

It's very evident that you haven't watched Moreno and McCoy very much.

McCoy was his entire offense. Bostick Sucks, Kinder was out the season, Oderick Turner is a slower Troy Williamson.

Give Pitt Beckman, Robiskie and their OL, and I guarantee you McCoy could play as well or better than Wells. Wells had the most to work with out of the 3.

Beanie: 274 rushes for 1609 yards, 15 TD's ~~ 5 Receptions for 21 yards
McCoy: 276 Rushes for 1328 yards, 14 TD's ~~ 33 receptions for 244 yards 1 TD
Moreno:248 rushes for 1334 yards, 14 TD's ~~ 20 receptions for 253 yards


Right Now I have it:

1a/1b: Moreno & McCoy
2a/2b: Wells & Williams.

Paranoidmoonduck
06-18-2008, 12:31 AM
1a/1b: Moreno & McCoy
2a/2b: Wells & Williams.

I'm probably going to kick myself for asking, but Williams who?

I have my doubts about Moreno. Great instincts, but I think we saw an excellent example of what happens when an instinctual but undersized runner is over-utilized with Carnell Williams. I think he could go top 20, but I'm not sure I see him as a top 10 pick. I love watching the guy run, but I have my doubts about how he'll translate.

I'd say Wells and McCoy are my top guys, with Moreno and James Davis following up (for now at least; Davis heads a pretty fluid group of runners).

Mr. Stiller
06-18-2008, 12:46 AM
I'm probably going to kick myself for asking, but Williams who?

I have my doubts about Moreno. Great instincts, but I think we saw an excellent example of what happens when an instinctual but undersized runner is over-utilized with Carnell Williams. I think he could go top 20, but I'm not sure I see him as a top 10 pick. I love watching the guy run, but I have my doubts about how he'll translate.

I'd say Wells and McCoy are my top guys, with Moreno and James Davis following up (for now at least; Davis heads a pretty fluid group of runners).

Keiland Williams. LSU.

keylime_5
06-18-2008, 08:56 AM
It's not about who had what on their offense or anything like that. It's a plus that the smaller guys are good receivers out of the backfield.....but their overall skills and running style is not what Wells' is which is why Wells is a top 10 prospect and the others 1st round prospects. I've seen Georgia play more than I would like to admit and Moreno is a fierce hard runner, but his abilites won't translate like that into the next level, he'll be a good back but not a superstud ala Marshawn Lynch or Laurence Maroney, etc.

Geomar
06-18-2008, 09:37 AM
Dang man, let me get into this.


ALright I'll rank the top 10 backs in 09 that are eligible for the 2009 nfl draft.

1. Knowshon Moreno

2. Javarris James (Yes, I said it, you might think im crazy but nobody here actually knows what happened to Javarris last year, i'll tell you what happened, he got hurt at the end of the marshall game and he got a ankle sprain, and some neck injury as well, I have proof if you want me to show you that he was playing injured all year, I have about 3 articles on it so I have evidence and randy shannon has said it too in the articles.)
3. Beanie Wells
4. Graig Cooper
5. Lesean McCoy
6. Keiland Williams
7. James Davis
8. Arian Foster
9. CJ Spiller
10. DeMarco Murray

I rated them based on how well I think all of them will do in the upcoming season.

Sniper
06-18-2008, 11:39 AM
2. Javarris James (Yes, I said it, you might think im crazy but nobody here actually knows what happened to Javarris last year, i'll tell you what happened, he got hurt at the end of the marshall game and he got a ankle sprain, and some neck injury as well, I have proof if you want me to show you that he was playing injured all year, I have about 3 articles on it so I have evidence and randy shannon has said it too in the articles.)
3. Beanie Wells


Beanie Wells played with a banged up ankle and wrist all year. He's still the man. Man it hurts me to admit a Buckeye is good.

Geomar
06-18-2008, 12:16 PM
Beanie Wells played with a banged up ankle and wrist all year. He's still the man. Man it hurts me to admit a Buckeye is good.

Im just a little biased but, Javarris was hurt since the FIRST GAME, but also Beanie's little injury wasn't as bad as javarris's, but I do believe that Javarris will be back for sure. Javarris just looked very different after that first game after the injury. all i know is that Javarris rehabbed that high ankle sprain and neck injury after the season. Randy Shannon was saying that it was really taking a toll on Javarris with those two injurys, that Graig Cooper had to start taking a lot of the carrys and then we started passing a lot(and with a crappy quarterback like Kyle Wright and Kirby Freeman the pasing game could not open the run game.) and Javarris just struggled through the season.

if we were talking about last season I would say Beanie Wells of course had the better season with minor injurys, but Javarris was dealing with a nagging neck and high ankle sprain injurys, I have watched Javarris this spring and he looks even better than he looked in the marshall game and even faster too, the weight training coach down in Miami tested James at a 4.48 40 yard dash, and he also tested Graig Cooper at a 4.43 40 yard dash.


But I do agree that Beanie Wells is really good, it hurts me too but he is pretty good.

Beanie Wells has a great stiff arm but Javarris has a great juke, I think a couple of you guys might know what im talking about.

Sniper
06-18-2008, 12:17 PM
Until JJ proves he's on Wells's level though, there's no way you can put him ahead of Wells.

Sniper
06-18-2008, 12:35 PM
Put McCoy in H-back sort of role ala chris Cooley. Make him gain some pounds (like 250 lbs) and you'll have a dominant player. The kid has got all the tools needed. Looking forward to a 1500 all purpose yard season.

Why? Just why? A dominant RB is so much more important than an HBack. And why the **** does every ******* player have to either drop or gain weight to play a different position? What's wrong with the positions they're elite at?

Geomar
06-18-2008, 12:36 PM
Until JJ proves he's on Wells's level though, there's no way you can put him ahead of Wells.

I told u I was a little biased. As of right now you might think im crazy but I do beleive James is gonna be doing some crazy shyt with Cooper next season.

If clemson can have two runningbacks that can run for 1000 yards each and get double digit touchdowns so can miami.

I put James ahead of Wells because I beleive James is gonna have a little better season, but It was tough for me to choose #2, but I do consider Wells #2 also , I just like James a little more thats all.

'cuse-213
06-18-2008, 12:39 PM
Why? Just why? A dominant RB is so much more important than an HBack. And why the **** does every ******* player have to either drop or gain weight to play a different position? What's wrong with the positions they're elite at?

Calm down lol he says things like that on purpose.

TheGreatEscape
06-18-2008, 01:01 PM
Mcshay is the biggest idiot in draft analysis I've ever seen on tv. I don't know how that guy gets paid for his opinions, he doesn't know crap about scouting and everytime I see them on tv together kiper makes a fool of him.

1-Beanie





2-McCoy
3-Moreno
not having wells number one is either being an OSU hater or not having seen the three play. In college ball they are a lot closer together, but in terms of NFL potential Wells is in that elite or near elite level as a RB prospect, Moreno and McCoy are in that Lynch, Mendenhall tier as picks between 10-25 somewhere; anything higher than 15 being a slight slight reach.

For what it's worth I think Lynch is a better NFL back than Wells is going to be.

Go_Eagles77
06-18-2008, 02:05 PM
Calm down lol he says things like that on purpose.

Yeah, he's just fishing. At least I hope so, because no one can be that dumb, can they?

draftguru151
06-18-2008, 03:45 PM
I think a healthy James is a very good back but definitely not on that elite level. Could he end up being a first rounder? Perhaps, he has the skill to do so when he is healthy (last year he has absolutely no explosion from the injuries which is the main thing to cause him to struggle). He has a good build (up to around 215), good vision, very good agility, and enough break away ability. He's a very solid all around back, but rating him on the elite level at this point is more than a little bias.