Would the Lions be better than the current Bengals if they had drafted Carson Palmer?

[CC.SD]

Pure conjecture, but it's the offseason, I'm bored, and I was wondering;

If the Bengals had taken Newman or someone (Carson was not considered 100% the right pick at number 1), and the Lions snagged him, what would the landscape of the NFL look like? The NFC North?

Probably pretty similiar to the current Bengals, but in a weak division you never know.

I'm thinking about this because a friend of mine (USC alumni) recently went on a rant about how Carson is being held back by the Bengals organization. I really do believe he will be a championship quarterback, but if the Bengals don't get on the ball soon he could be in trouble. Or changes might be forced.

Some stuff to consider:

Roy Williams vs. Chad Johnson
Defense...is it a wash?
How much of Carson's success is the Bengal's surprisingly tough O-line? Running game?
Poor Jon Kitna.

[eaglesfan_45]

Every team except the Colts and Patriots would be better if they had Carson Palmer.

[PACKmanN]

Palmer would get killed similar to Kitna. His o-line would make him look like a bust.

[LonghornsLegend]

I'm thinking about this because a friend of mine (USC alumni) recently went on a rant about how Carson is being held back by the Bengals organization.

I'm not 100% sure, but don't think being drafted by the Lions would remedy that problem.

[Splat]

I'm not 100% sure, but don't think being drafted by the Lions would remedy that problem.

Thats pretty much what I was thinking if the Bengals are holding him back he would be no better off in Det.

[CC.SD]

I'm not 100% sure, but don't think being drafted by the Lions would remedy that problem.

Yeah that discussion happened before I started thinking about the Lions. Picking number 2 that year, they were the obvious choice to snatch up CP if the Bengals passed. You could probably argue that Carson would have to deal with fewer criminals in DETROIT of all places, which is pretty ridiculous.

[Crickett]

No, I don't. As a Cincinnati Bengal.....

Carson Palmer never saw the field as a rookie except in the preseason. And you know what? He looked good as a rookie in the preseason, but that year gave him time to learn and adjust. I'm not sure the Lions would have been that smart. And remember, Roy was selected the next year, so as a rookie, Palmer would have nobody to throw to.

A good offensive line. Something the Bengals have had since Carson Palmer has been there. And there is nothing surprising about it. IIRC, both offensive tackles were top ten picks and Eric Steinbach was a steal at #33 for the Bengals. Meanwhile the Lions seem to have one of the worst in the league perpetually. Having that good offensive line does wonders for a QB's confidence, especially early in their career.

Marvin Lewis. I'd take him as a coach over anyone the Lions have had since '03. The Lions coaching could have harmed Palmer's development like I feel they did with Joey Harrington.

Also, if Carson Palmer hadn't been selected first, I think he would have fallen to fifth. Remember, Detroit and Houston just took QB's in the top three at that point.

And the Jets.... I think they would have taken Robertson over anyone. Plus at that point, Chad Pennington seemed like he was progressing as a QB.

Now, maybe Carson is being held back by the Bengals organization, but it could be a lot worse for him.

[LonghornsLegend]

Yeah that discussion happened before I started thinking about the Lions. Picking number 2 that year, they were the obvious choice to snatch up CP if the Bengals passed. You could probably argue that Carson would have to deal with fewer criminals in DETROIT of all places, which is pretty ridiculous.

Yea, and its tough to go beyond that also...Because you could argue Detroit with Carson would be at least good enough that they would miss out on Calvin surely and Roy maybe, Det was bad for so many years they had the luxury of picking in the top 10 many years...Granted they might still be bad, but record wise Carson probably would of increased their totals a little more.

[PackerLegend]

Every team except the Colts and Giants would be better if they had Carson Palmer.

Ummmmmm the Pats?? Brady over Carson easily. You could make cases for a few other QB's. Until Eli won the superbowl and really turned it on alot of people questioned him and would take Carson over him.

[eaglesfan_45]

Ummmmmm the Pats?? Brady over Carson easily. You could make cases for a few other QB's. Until Eli won the superbowl and really turned it on alot of people questioned him and would take Carson over him.

My bad I meant to put the Pats. Whoops

[PalmerToCJ]

How in the world is the Bengals organization holding him back in his eyes? Obviously we're not rock solid, that's clear. But Carson gets to throw his brains out, over 25% of our cap is on Olineman (more than 25%, not sure how much more) and he has plenty of weapons.

The organization surprisingly did the right thing in putting emphasis on the offense in order to support Carson. They've put him in a great position. Now, the fact that he has a headcase WR is just the way things are. Seriously, about the only thing they've done right is realize what a talent Carson is and protecting him.

[RaiderNation]

If the raiders didnt draft gallery and draft pretty much anyone else in that draft, they would be better

[broth223]

That really depends on do the Lions still draft Joey Harrington? If not then who do they get instead? If it is any of the next 10 players (save 1) taken afterwards and the rest of the drafts were the same then I'd be willing to say there is a possibility that Carson would be in a better situation than he is with the gaggle of misfits known as the Cincinnati Bengals as crazy as it may sound, The real question is are all these legendary QB gurus just too many chefs in the pot? Lions had Mooch, Martz, and now the QB coach from Michigan. Also no vet tutoring him. (I think Kitna did have a bit to do with Palmer's progression) If you think about it almost all of the top QBs had a vet present in their rookie careers. Tom Brady and Tony Romo both had Drew Bledsoe. Ben Rothlesburger had Tommy Maddox and Charlie Batch. Matt Hasselbeck had Brett Favre. Peyton started right out but was the son of an NFL QB. Philip Rivers had Drew Brees. Eli had both Peyton and Archie. Vince Young had Billie Volek. You could go through nearly every QB starting for any NFL team and you will find at some point in their NFL or College career they had some sort of tutelage from a current or Ex NFL player. Those who didn't predominantly aren't that good. Trent Edwards, Kurt Warner, and Drew Brees are the only ones that I can think of off the top of my head.

[Boston]

It's the Lions. They always find ways to be even worse then the season prior.

[Gay Ork Wang]

If they had picked Carson, everything wouldve changed every team every pick wouldve changed in 2004/05/06 etc so it doesnt make sense to compare it.
Change the 2 teams and ask? maybe but not like that

[RaiderFan]

If the raiders didnt draft gallery and draft pretty much anyone else in that draft, they would be better

:rolleyes:
Maybe a defensive player, but any offensive player would have been a bust for the Raiders. In the Raiders haven't had a offensive player have a great season since gannon won the MVP. Gallery had no chance........I wish would have drafted sean taylor at least the defense had continuity

[vidae]

No, I don't. As a Cincinnati Bengal.....

Carson Palmer never saw the field as a rookie except in the preseason. And you know what? He looked good as a rookie in the preseason, but that year gave him time to learn and adjust. I'm not sure the Lions would have been that smart. And remember, Roy was selected the next year, so as a rookie, Palmer would have nobody to throw to.

A good offensive line. Something the Bengals have had since Carson Palmer has been there. And there is nothing surprising about it. IIRC, both offensive tackles were top ten picks and Eric Steinbach was a steal at #33 for the Bengals. Meanwhile the Lions seem to have one of the worst in the league perpetually. Having that good offensive line does wonders for a QB's confidence, especially early in their career.

Marvin Lewis. I'd take him as a coach over anyone the Lions have had since '03. The Lions coaching could have harmed Palmer's development like I feel they did with Joey Harrington.

Also, if Carson Palmer hadn't been selected first, I think he would have fallen to fifth. Remember, Detroit and Houston just took QB's in the top three at that point.

And the Jets.... I think they would have taken Robertson over anyone. Plus at that point, Chad Pennington seemed like he was progressing as a QB.

Now, maybe Carson is being held back by the Bengals organization, but it could be a lot worse for him.

The fifth pick that year was the Dallas Cowboys. Imagine them having Carson right now. Scary.

[Staubach12]

The fifth pick that year was the Dallas Cowboys. Imagine them having Carson right now. Scary.

Not really. Romo > Carson, IMO.

[bored of education]

Its impossible to project that the lions would have the same roster now if they drafted Carson you moron.

[Addict]

Not really. Romo > Carson, IMO.

and IMNSHO you = wrong.

[damasta13]

lets not kid ourselves, we are talking about the lions, they would have taken a WR anyway!

[Eaglez.Fan]

Not really. Romo > Carson, IMO.

wow, just wow. Yet somehow I'm not surprised.

[GB12]

If the Bengals had taken Newman or someone (Carson was not considered 100% the right pick at number 1), and the Lions snagged him, what would the landscape of the NFL look like? The NFC North?

Major flaw in your little situation you got here. The Lions would not have drafted Palmer. They were tied to Joey Harrington and he still wasn't proven a complete bust at that point.

[BeerBaron]

I'm not 100% sure, but don't think being drafted by the Lions would remedy that problem.

haha, yes! blast them lions...

but like someone earlier said, i think any team but the pats and colts would be better off with carson.

hes sort of the forgotten man when people talk about franchise QBs because they bengals defense has been so awful its held him from accomplishing anything

[CC.SD]

LOL at the guy calling me a moron, or saying there's a serious flaw in the logic of this thread. Of course there is; that's why I said it's complete conjecture. It's a discussion not a realistic analysis.

[Staubach12]

and IMNSHO you = wrong.

And how is that?

Let's look at stats. This past year, Carson threw for 4131 yards, while Romo threw for 4211. Romo's completion % was worse by .5%. Romo threw for 36 TDs with a 6.9 TD%. Carson threw for 26 with 3.5 TD%. Romo had 19 INTs. Carson had 20. Surrounding cast? Chad + TJ > Owens + Crayton. Sure, we have Witten, and our running game was better. However, Carson arguably had the better line. He was only sacked 17 times, while Romo was sacked 24 times, and I'm pretty sure we all know Romo is more mobile than Palmer.

[SenorGato]

And how is that?

Let's look at stats. This past year, Carson threw for 4131 yards, while Romo threw for 4211. Romo's completion % was worse by .5%. Romo threw for 36 TDs with a 6.9 TD%. Carson threw for 26 with 3.5 TD%. Romo had 19 INTs. Carson had 20. Surrounding cast? Chad + TJ > Owens + Crayton. Sure, we have Witten, and our running game was better. However, Carson arguably had the better line. He was only sacked 17 times, while Romo was sacked 24 times, and I'm pretty sure we all know Romo is more mobile than Palmer.

True...Witten, a top 3 all around TE and a better, more explosive running game are insignificant enough to just toss in like that.

I'd say the O-lines are a wash, but the difference in the running game is huge.

Palmer is a beast, but the Bengals ask ALOT of this guy. He was basically asked to make up for a hideous D, no running game, and work with some key injuries on the O-line...though the backups played very admirably.

Personally, I think he could be a legend if he was a stable franchise...he's got time to become a legend but it's just so hard to get serious hype and national love when so many things are going wrong for a franchise. I believe that of most QB prospect with NFL skills, but a guy with Palmers skill level deserves to be on a franchise thats a little less ridiculous.

They have had their stuff together for like...one season...and 1 60 yard pass into his first playoff game that season he suffers a major injury because someone falls on him. Not cool.

[Bengals78]

IF the Bengals can manage to turn this around, Palmer could re-write some records.
Could imagine Palmer with Randy Moss? Palmer's cannon arm and accuracy with Moss' size and speed?
I think Palmer's arm strength is better than Brady's

[Crickett]

IF the Bengals can manage to turn this around, Palmer could re-write some records.
Could imagine Palmer with Randy Moss? Palmer's cannon arm and accuracy with Moss' size and speed?
I think Palmer's arm strength is better than Brady's


Quick reminder. Carson's wide receivers for the past few years have been Chad Johnson and T.J. Houshmandzadeh.

[Bengals78]

Yeah a great tandem but any one of them are not as good as Randy Moss. And they are better at different teams. When it comes to running the streak routes none are better than Moss. Ask Brady and Culepepper about it.

[Bengalsrocket]

And how is that?

Let's look at stats. This past year, Carson threw for 4131 yards, while Romo threw for 4211. Romo's completion % was worse by .5%. Romo threw for 36 TDs with a 6.9 TD%. Carson threw for 26 with 3.5 TD%. Romo had 19 INTs. Carson had 20. Surrounding cast? Chad + TJ > Owens + Crayton. Sure, we have Witten, and our running game was better. However, Carson arguably had the better line. He was only sacked 17 times, while Romo was sacked 24 times, and I'm pretty sure we all know Romo is more mobile than Palmer.

Bengals O-line was beat up and injured. if you want to find out why Palmer was sacked 7 less times look at his interceptions - he was forcing the ball out quickly to avoid the rush. And throwing around the running game so nonchalantly is laughable.

If I'm a coach or an owner, I'm happy either way - Romo or Palmer. But if you're going to compare then at least do it honestly. Romo was in a better situation this year than Palmer.