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awfullyquiet
05-29-2008, 05:24 PM
http://www.ketv.com/sports/16295370/detail.html

Big Brown's Trainer Gives Horses Steroids


Just saying. I dislike the way that this gets neglected, especially among two year olds. All these commercials about steroids to kids... yet steroids in horse racing is totally cool (and normal).

Sigh.

kwilk103
05-29-2008, 05:30 PM
its legal.

Paranoidmoonduck
05-29-2008, 05:34 PM
You can't blame a chemical for the ruining of sport in America. A performance enhancer is an abstract idea. Blame the people, blame the money, blame the trainers.

LonghornsLegend
05-29-2008, 05:42 PM
Somebody said this on ESPN awhile ago, but this horse better be ok after this race, short term and long term, otherwise they are going to catch hell for it.

Hawk
05-29-2008, 05:46 PM
Horse racing is wrong in the first place.

dbro
05-29-2008, 05:46 PM
the government is ruining sports. Steriods is why you watch sports. You wanna see someone hit 70 homeruns. You wanna see a HR go 500 feet. You wanna see a LB knock a RB's head off. But putting steriods in an animal is just sickening. That horse has no idea what is goin on. Now im not saying im in favor of steriods im jus saying. Steriods is like gas. Everyone needs gas so the companies charge more for it. Players use steriods because ppl want more HR and more power.

Paul
05-29-2008, 05:52 PM
the government is ruining sports. Steriods is why you watch sports. You wanna see someone hit 70 homeruns. You wanna see a HR go 500 feet. You wanna see a LB knock a RB's head off. But putting steriods in an animal is just sickening. That horse has no idea what is goin on. Now im not saying im in favor of steriods im jus saying. Steriods is like gas. Everyone needs gas so the companies charge more for it. Players use steriods because ppl want more HR and more power.

I actually want to see guys who busted there ass in practice, in the weight room and in the film room, compete on a level playing field. That may seem naive these days, but still, do not put me in your group.

dbro
05-29-2008, 05:53 PM
Did i put you in my group did i say Paul wants to see steriod users no i didnt.

Crickett
05-29-2008, 05:55 PM
I actually want to see guys who busted there ass in practice, in the weight room and in the film room, compete on a level playing field. That may seem naive these days, but still, do not put me in your group.

That stopped being enough back in the 1970's. Sports need to stop having a banned substance list and create an allowed substance list. It would clear up confusion.

dbro
05-29-2008, 05:57 PM
Is basketball the cleanest sport? you never here anything about steriods. Is it because the NBA doesnt have as good of steriod testing, or is it just that clean?

LonghornsLegend
05-29-2008, 05:57 PM
I actually want to see guys who busted there ass in practice, in the weight room and in the film room, compete on a level playing field. That may seem naive these days, but still, do not put me in your group.

Co-Sign.




That horse has no idea what is goin on.


You say that like its ok, babies don't know whats going on either, maybe we should just start the whole process early then.

Paul
05-29-2008, 05:57 PM
Did i put you in my group did i say Paul wants to see steriod users no i didnt.


You wanna see someone hit 70 homeruns. You wanna see a HR go 500 feet. You wanna see a LB knock a RB's head off.

"You"? Is that not a generalization of all fans? Or is that just the way you talk?

dbro
05-29-2008, 05:59 PM
You say that like its ok, babies don't know whats going on either, maybe we should just start the whole process early then.


No i didnt mean that like its ok, i mean it like its sick to give steriods to a horse because they cant tell you to stop you know. A player has that choice the can say yes or no. The horse is defenseless thats why i said what i said

dbro
05-29-2008, 05:59 PM
"You"? Is that not a generalization of all fans? Or is that just the way you talk?


by You i mean most fans. Didnt the MLB have high tv ratings when McGwire and Sosa were in that HR battle? i didnt mean everyone cuz i dont like steriods in sports, but thats when they have their highest ratings. I jus mean most like the fans who quit watching baseball when it is on the way to getting clean.

Crickett
05-29-2008, 06:00 PM
Is basketball the cleanest sport? you never here anything about steriods. Is it because the NBA doesnt have as good of steriod testing, or is it just that clean?

I'd say its because sheer brute strength isn't as imortant in basketball. Steroids aren't going to give you more touch on your three pointers. Also because so few basketball players look like they're on steroids. But anyway, yeah, they're the cleanest sport. All they have is fixed games.

BeerBaron
05-29-2008, 06:31 PM
the government is ruining sports. Steriods is why you watch sports. You wanna see someone hit 70 homeruns. You wanna see a HR go 500 feet. You wanna see a LB knock a RB's head off. But putting steriods in an animal is just sickening. That horse has no idea what is goin on. Now im not saying im in favor of steriods im jus saying. Steriods is like gas. Everyone needs gas so the companies charge more for it. Players use steriods because ppl want more HR and more power.

the thing is though, people were hitting 63 homers and knocking the occassional homerun out of even yankee stadium well before steroids were even thought of....

i dont want to get into the steroids debate though myself.....

in all honesty, it bothers me more that teams care whether or not players smoke weed....test em for heroine, sure. test em for cocaine, sure. test em for steroids, why not.

oh well........not my debate

Brent
05-29-2008, 06:35 PM
Horse racing is wrong in the first place.
I agree with you on this.

BeerBaron
05-29-2008, 06:36 PM
Horse racing is wrong in the first place.

I agree with you on this.

true that.

kwilk103
05-29-2008, 06:42 PM
i disagree

i love horseracing, greyhound racing, etc

horseracing has been going on for hundreds of years

The Unseen
05-29-2008, 06:48 PM
horseracing has been going on for hundreds of years

*obvious reply* That doesn't mean it's right.

Personally, I don't care. But the steroids thing makes me wonder - if human's can't take them, why can horses? Now, there may be a critical and thus positive difference between banned human steroids and horse steroids, but if there isn't, it strikes me a little odd.

Hawk
05-29-2008, 07:01 PM
by You i mean most fans. Didnt the MLB have high tv ratings when McGwire and Sosa were in that HR battle? i didnt mean everyone cuz i dont like steriods in sports, but thats when they have their highest ratings. I jus mean most like the fans who quit watching baseball when it is on the way to getting clean.

You are so wrong. In 1998, society really had no idea of the cheating going on in baseball. McGwire admitted to using andro, and while Sosa was never actually caught using performance enhancers, the signs were there (he was caught with a corked bat though).

You say fans quit watching baseball when it is getting clean, well then they aren't fans. Real fans like to see hit and run, the squeeze play, triples, pitchers getting out of a jam, diving catches...etc. I don't like seeing big headed bodybuilders hit 500 foot home runs in a 17-13 ballgame. Real fans like watching Ken Griffey Jr., Chipper Jones, Ichiro, Greg Maddux, and Derek Jeter playing the game the way it should be played.

Hawk
05-29-2008, 07:04 PM
Is basketball the cleanest sport? you never here anything about steriods. Is it because the NBA doesnt have as good of steriod testing, or is it just that clean?

Basketball is all about athleticism, there's no need to be huge. Take a look at the best players in the league.

BeerBaron
05-29-2008, 07:05 PM
Basketball is all about athleticism, there's no need to be huge. Take a look at the best players in the league.

not that im arguing against basketball, but you have to remember, that a lot of time, steroids and especially HGH are used more in recovering from injuries than just getting huge

dbro
05-29-2008, 07:06 PM
You are so wrong. In 1998, society really had no idea of the cheating going on in baseball. McGwire admitted to using andro, and while Sosa was never actually caught using performance enhancers, the signs were there (he was caught with a corked bat though).

You say fans quit watching baseball when it is getting clean, well then they aren't fans. Real fans like to see hit and run, the squeeze play, triples, pitchers getting out of a jam, diving catches...etc. I don't like seeing big headed bodybuilders hit 500 foot home runs in a 17-13 ballgame. Real fans like watching Ken Griffey Jr., Chipper Jones, Ichiro, Greg Maddux, and Derek Jeter playing the game the way it should be played.


LOL how am i soooooo wrong. People watched alot more baseball in that time correct? Why, because their was more HR being hit correct? So how am i wrong. They didnt have to know steriods were being used to be interested in HR. They just liked to watch the bobmbs being hit. So how am i wrong?

Crickett
05-29-2008, 07:14 PM
LOL how am i soooooo wrong. People watched alot more baseball in that time correct? Why, because their was more HR being hit correct? So how am i wrong. They didnt have to know steriods were being used to be interested in HR. They just liked to watch the bobmbs being hit. So how am i wrong?

"Chicks dig the long ball" - Greg Maddux

Hawk
05-29-2008, 07:14 PM
LOL how am i soooooo wrong. People watched alot more baseball in that time correct? Why, because their was more HR being hit correct? So how am i wrong. They didnt have to know steriods were being used to be interested in HR. They just liked to watch the bobmbs being hit. So how am i wrong?

They was a lot more hype about baseball in 1998, yes. I'm sure more baseball is being watched now with MLB Extra Innings and MLBtv, but that's not what I'm getting at.

You made it sound like you thought baseball was better off with people hitting home runs, because of ratings. That's where I think you're wrong. If I misinterpreted you, then my bad.

dbro
05-29-2008, 07:27 PM
No i said personally i dont like steriods. Im a big Houston Astros fan and i am a big Craig Biggio fan he played the game hard nosed an the right way. Run for his HR never taunted or talked trash. Guy has been plunked more than anyone an how many times have you seen him do something stupid never. I love baseball players like that. It doesnt get better than watching players like him Ken Griffey Ichiro etc. etc.

j05son
05-29-2008, 09:25 PM
I actually want to see guys who busted there ass in practice, in the weight room and in the film room, compete on a level playing field. That may seem naive these days, but still, do not put me in your group.

I'm sure theres some great high school games and forums =p.

In the end of the day, I want to see Bonds knock one into the cove and then hate him for doing it. Merriman doing the lights out dance and hating him for it. See Gholston's arms being as big as my thighs and want to see him in the NFL. It may be wrong, but IMO, it's going to beat high school or D3 sports any day... I personally want the action, want the collisions and all. Everyone said it's not a level playing field like hitters in baseball where the only ones doing it. Clemons and Andy P can tell you different. I like the drama from Conseco and all of that to.

Brent
05-29-2008, 09:27 PM
greyhound racing
I have a problem with that one. My family has owned several retired racing greyhounds. While they are usually (99% of the time) treated well (healthy, happy dogs are faster) there are always a few bad apples who don't take care of the dogs and one mistreated dog is too many. (By the way, this is just a plug, if you want to get a dog: please consider adopting a former race dog. They're cool animals.)

kwilk103
05-29-2008, 09:33 PM
I have a problem with that one. My family has owned several retired racing greyhounds. While they are usually (99% of the time) treated well (healthy, happy dogs are faster) there are always a few bad apples who don't take care of the dogs and one mistreated dog is too many. (By the way, this is just a plug, if you want to get a dog: please consider adopting a former race dog. They're cool animals.)

you could say that about anything

i have a great greyhound story:

bunch of us went to the track; the one my friend bet on was winning coming down the stretch; it completely wiped out and took out like 2 other dogs (they were fine); he wanted to know if they stopped the race and resumed like nascar; he wanted to know if they threw out a caution flag, stopped the race, etc

he was being dead serious; it was so funny

Brent
05-29-2008, 09:36 PM
you could say that about anything
True but that is just how I feel about the sport. Different strokes for different folks.

i have a great greyhound story:

bunch of us went to the track; the one my friend bet on was winning coming down the stretch; it completely wiped out and took out like 2 other dogs (they were fine); he wanted to know if they stopped the race and resumed like nascar; he wanted to know if they threw out a caution flag, stopped the race, etc

he was being dead serious; it was so funny
haha, that's funny.

awfullyquiet
05-29-2008, 10:37 PM
*obvious reply* That doesn't mean it's right.

Personally, I don't care. But the steroids thing makes me wonder - if human's can't take them, why can horses? Now, there may be a critical and thus positive difference between banned human steroids and horse steroids, but if there isn't, it strikes me a little odd.

yes, they're the same steroids, well, winstrol... They cause aggression, increase in bone, quicker recovery time, and yes, allow these horses to be worked harder and younger than they are. everything that they do in humans, but in horses

I mean, i had the conversation with a friend of mine yesterday while riding my bike, and was like. wtf. that's wack. she was talking about quarter horse show competition and how they used to just stack these horses with steroids to make them look like total beefcakes.

and then she was like, yeah, they use them in horse racing too all the time. i was like. whoa. wait a second. that's totally uncool. it makes horse racing in my mind no better than cockfighting, dogfighting, or any other animal sports that might cause death in such a situation. Cruelty to animals? Yeah. Probably. Subjecting animals to performance enhancing drugs is just sick. I also would tend to *gasp* see that these animal right groups have something going on...

it's scary that people are so willing to sacrifice good ethics in the place just to make money. it's kinda sick.

oh. and baseball is just as good now as it was 6 years ago, if not better.

roidrunner
05-29-2008, 10:43 PM
steroids are fun, just ask Barry Bonds.....

as Tony Tiger would say, " THERRRRRE GRRREAT!!!!!!

Brent
05-29-2008, 10:50 PM
reminds me of
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/07_01/whippetDM1207_468x669.jpg
Yes: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-467985/Meet-Incredible-Hulk-Hounds.html that is a real dog.

roidrunner
05-29-2008, 10:52 PM
i should really get my dog on that regiment, he would kick any other dogs ***. only problem is i do not have a dog. :(

Hawk
05-29-2008, 11:00 PM
not that im arguing against basketball, but you have to remember, that a lot of time, steroids and especially HGH are used more in recovering from injuries than just getting huge

My post was referring more to steroids in basketball and bulking up as that's its primary use. HGH, like you said, is primarily used for injuries. The NBA does test for it right? I don't really know, I'm sure they do in this era, but I don't remember anyone actually getting busted for it.

I'm sure theres some great high school games and forums =p.

In the end of the day, I want to see Bonds knock one into the cove and then hate him for doing it. Merriman doing the lights out dance and hating him for it. See Gholston's arms being as big as my thighs and want to see him in the NFL. It may be wrong, but IMO, it's going to beat high school or D3 sports any day... I personally want the action, want the collisions and all. Everyone said it's not a level playing field like hitters in baseball where the only ones doing it. Clemons and Andy P can tell you different. I like the drama from Conseco and all of that to.

Half the football team at my school is using steroids, and everyone knows it. School can't afford the testing supplies for steroids.:rolleyes:

Pettite used HGH to recover from surgery IIRC. I doubt he was using it between starts to gain an advantage. Clemens is a different story because he never really had any major injuries he had to overcome, that would slightly justify using HGH.

slightlyaraiderfan
05-29-2008, 11:04 PM
Using HGH to recover from surgery is also trying to gain an advantage..

Brent
05-29-2008, 11:05 PM
i should really get my dog on that regiment, he would kick any other dogs ***. only problem is i do not have a dog. :(
it's actually a genetic condition in Whippets.

BeerBaron
05-29-2008, 11:07 PM
Using HGH to recover from surgery is also trying to gain an advantage..

you know, i hear that and think "yeah, alright" but quite honestly, i consider it a whole lot less bad than using it just to pump yourself up. because at least in that situation, your body is being healed so that you can continue earning money in your chosen occupation.

while i think i disagree with it, the fact that i really have to think about it being right or wrong puts in on a much lower level than straight up using steroids to get unnaturally jacked when there was nothing actually wrong with your body in the first place

Hawk
05-29-2008, 11:18 PM
Using HGH to recover from surgery is also trying to gain an advantage..

You know that before it was illegal, doctors prescribed it to athletes to recover from injuries.

awfullyquiet
05-29-2008, 11:21 PM
You know that before it was illegal, doctors prescribed it to athletes to recover from injuries.

for short term usage. not long-term usage. long term steroid usage was much more common in the steroid era.

y'know?

themaninblack
05-30-2008, 12:04 AM
I too am in the boat that would like to believe that the best players are professionals in their sports because of their athletic ability/work ethic. I don't want to see steroids in any sport period(involving humans). Being an athlete myself if I were ever exposed to it or knew of any one of my teammates being involved with the usage of such substances I would be the first to get them off the team. If my coach condoned such activities, I would leave the college.

There is a right way and a wrong way to do things and steroids/performance enhancers are definitely the wrong way. if you need these things, you are not a professional athlete IMO. You may have the physical tools to be but if steroids are what you need to get you over the top there is something wrong with that. Our society may condone it, but I do not and I know many others in my position that do not as well.

Crickett
05-30-2008, 12:16 AM
You know that before it was illegal, doctors prescribed it to athletes to recover from injuries.

You know, for medical purposes, steroids and HGH are still legal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prednisone#Uses

kalbears13
05-30-2008, 12:31 AM
I think pro-athletes should be forced to use steroids.I think we as fans deserve the greatest athletes science can create! Lets go! Anything that will make you run faster, jump higher! I have HighDefinition TV! I want my athletes like my video games! Lets go! I could care less if you die at 40. You hate life after sports anyways. I'm doing you a favor.

badgerbacker
05-30-2008, 12:50 AM
People want to see athletes who are on steroids, because they perform better. People also want to believe those athletes are clean. The solution is to allow them to take steroids and somehow keep the public in the dark.

awfullyquiet
05-30-2008, 12:56 AM
People want to see athletes who are on steroids, because they perform better. People also want to believe those athletes are clean. The solution is to allow them to take steroids and somehow keep the public in the dark.

People?

No way. People want level playing fields. They want individual and team effort. Teamwork, smarts, and not overwhelming physicality win games.

badgerbacker
05-30-2008, 01:37 AM
People?

No way. People want level playing fields. They want individual and team effort. Teamwork, smarts, and not overwhelming physicality win games.If everybody were taking steroids it would be a level playing field and the things you mention would decide who won and lost.

Yes, I am being sarcastic when I say everyone should take steroids and we should lie to the public, but for someone to say that they aren't drawn to watch better athletes is a joke. Why do men's sports, in general, get so much more attention than women's? It's not because the men work as a team better or put more effort into games, because that's obviously not the case.

I still say, we want to see the best athletes, and we want to believe they are clean.

Hawk
05-30-2008, 01:47 AM
You know, for medical purposes, steroids and HGH are still legal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prednisone#Uses

I know, illegal to athletes is what I should've said. That's why I sorta side with Rick Ankiel and Andy Pettite. HGH was recommended to them by their trainers and doctors and it was still legal at the time.

In their cases they did not gain an advantage, they were simply trying to recover. It's players like Bonds, Ken Caminiti, and Jason Giambi who are taking shots in the ass 3 times a week to belt home runs and win MVP awards, that disgraced the game.

tEk
05-30-2008, 02:22 AM
you could say that about anything

i have a great greyhound story:

bunch of us went to the track; the one my friend bet on was winning coming down the stretch; it completely wiped out and took out like 2 other dogs (they were fine); he wanted to know if they stopped the race and resumed like nascar; he wanted to know if they threw out a caution flag, stopped the race, etc

he was being dead serious; it was so funnyi have a greyhound story:
bought a ticket, road it all the way to vegas, damn dog was tired.

awfullyquiet
05-30-2008, 10:39 AM
If everybody were taking steroids it would be a level playing field and the things you mention would decide who won and lost.

Yes, I am being sarcastic when I say everyone should take steroids and we should lie to the public, but for someone to say that they aren't drawn to watch better athletes is a joke. Why do men's sports, in general, get so much more attention than women's? It's not because the men work as a team better or put more effort into games, because that's obviously not the case.

I still say, we want to see the best athletes, and we want to believe they are clean.

whoa. whoa. whoa. that is a really ******* sexist thought right there.

women can be as good of athletes if not better. an athlete is someone who strives for 100% of their physical potential. not who's the fastest, strongest, whatever... that's why when you hear scouts saying 'someones really athletic' it's separate and distinct from faster, stronger... it's the 'harder' element. sure. athleticism doesn't separate the men from the women. the men aren't necessarly 'better' than the women. sure. if you put them all on the same field, most of the time the women would get crushed. but that's due to a size difference, if anything, not a skill difference or a level of the game difference. i don't think you can say games are worse played by women.

women's sports don't get as much attention as men due to culture, not due to physical ability. if that was true, no one would watch college ball. either of them. because, lets face it, not everyone is a star athlete on their college team. they're not all physical specimens of godliness.

we're not naturally drawn to watch better athletes, were drawn to watch the spectacle. we want to relate to these people, even the bill buckners of the world.

badgerbacker
05-30-2008, 01:03 PM
whoa. whoa. whoa. that is a really ******* sexist thought right there.

women can be as good of athletes if not better. an athlete is someone who strives for 100% of their physical potential. not who's the fastest, strongest, whatever... that's why when you hear scouts saying 'someones really athletic' it's separate and distinct from faster, stronger... it's the 'harder' element. sure. athleticism doesn't separate the men from the women. the men aren't necessarly 'better' than the women. sure. if you put them all on the same field, most of the time the women would get crushed. but that's due to a size difference, if anything, not a skill difference or a level of the game difference. i don't think you can say games are worse played by women.

women's sports don't get as much attention as men due to culture, not due to physical ability. if that was true, no one would watch college ball. either of them. because, lets face it, not everyone is a star athlete on their college team. they're not all physical specimens of godliness.

we're not naturally drawn to watch better athletes, were drawn to watch the spectacle. we want to relate to these people, even the bill buckners of the world.I apologize if I sounded sexist. We obviously have different definitions of athleticism. When I say men are more athletic, I mean that in general, they are bigger, stronger, and faster. I've never wished to imply that women don't try as hard as men or anything like that.

You are also right about culture playing a big part in the sports we watch, so perhaps my example was bad. I still stick to the point I was trying to make though. While it's obviously not the sole reason for watching, in most cases we are drawn to better athletes if all other things were equal.

Maybe it's not as black and white as I say it is, but think about how much America loves records being broken. Somebody else brought up the huge audiences for the McGwire/Sosa Home Run Race, and think about the monster coverage for Barry Bonds breaking the home run record, despite most of America disliking him with a passion. We hear almost no stories about track during non-Olympic times unless somebody runs a faster time than anybody else in the world. You have to admit that my definition of athleticism (being bigger, faster, stronger) plays some part, even if it isn't the biggest factor, in what America is interested in.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
05-31-2008, 06:07 PM
the government is ruining sports. Steriods is why you watch sports. You wanna see someone hit 70 homeruns. You wanna see a HR go 500 feet. You wanna see a LB knock a RB's head off. But putting steriods in an animal is just sickening. That horse has no idea what is goin on. Now im not saying im in favor of steriods im jus saying. Steriods is like gas. Everyone needs gas so the companies charge more for it. Players use steriods because ppl want more HR and more power.

So cheating is ok? So that justifies people cheating in casino's because people want to see wins? Cheating is not ok at all.