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View Full Version : How much longer for Marinelli?


WMD
06-08-2008, 09:10 PM
We were 3-13 in his first year, and then 7-9 last year. If I were to go out on a limb and say we're worse this year, maybe 5-11, could this be his last year? Would he get another? Maybe Ford would just decide to fire Millen and retain Marinelli.

If we went 5-11, personally, I'd fire both of them. Millen has just failed after too many chances and Marinelli hasn't shown me anything special in his first two years as coach. Problem is, if/when we fire Marinelli, we're still stuck with a team full of "his guys".. Tampa Bay castoffs, small guys, system fits.. whatever. So it really wouldn't be helping anything.

What do you folks say?

d34ng3l021
06-08-2008, 09:32 PM
http://www.simplyfired.com/blog/blog-images/firemillen_small.jpg

Crickett
06-08-2008, 10:43 PM
I say "whats a guy gotta do to get fired around here?"

Kampman for President
06-08-2008, 11:00 PM
I think they give him at least 2 more seasons. The change to the cover 2 defense and the zone blocking offense requires personel change, of which cannot be done over the course of 2 years. If the defense doesn't improve this year then the seat will be getting warmer but after the 2010 season both Millen and Marinelli should be looking for new jobs.

Geo
06-08-2008, 11:39 PM
My personal opinion, here's the thing about Detroit: they aren't getting better fast enough, if they had better people and especially in the front office and the scouting dept., but they are getting better with Marinelli. So it would be a shame to see him canned, although bottom line if the team doesn't get better fast enough no matter who/what, the possibility lies.

Especially when Millen finally gets canned, and the next GM might want his own guy.

But I think Marinelli is a good coach who can do the job as a head coach. With him involved, they are bringing in much better people and actually have a vision to build success for.

woodnick
06-09-2008, 11:09 AM
Fire his A** and bring in Marty Schotenheimer as a coach/GM.

Realisticly, I'm gonna say Millen and Maranelli get fired in 2 yrs. after the 2009-2010 season.

GB12
06-10-2008, 09:41 AM
If Matt Millen hires a 4th coach before he's fired you guys are stuck with him for life.

Addict
06-11-2008, 02:22 AM
If Matt Millen hires a 4th coach before he's fired you guys are stuck with him for life.

Hey don't be mean just to be mean.

detroit4life
06-16-2008, 12:30 PM
it would be a huge mistake to can marinelli now. weve spent the past 2 years bringing in his players to fit his system so we cant move from that now we will just go back to a top 5 pick and would have to start from scratch we need to give him time and not make rash decisions.

Prowler
06-18-2008, 12:51 PM
agreed, we need marinelli probably more than he needs us. unless dungy decides to take a missionary trip to detroit and devote his time helping us out and helping teach the ways of championship d instead. but his family is in florida so that's not happening. i think we have a 6-8 year plan with him now.

Brothgar
06-21-2008, 09:00 AM
Fire his A** and bring in Marty Schotenheimer as a coach/GM.

Realisticly, I'm gonna say Millen and Maranelli get fired in 2 yrs. after the 2009-2010 season.

That makes alot of sense because of all the FA's we have that year. Then the new GM can start fresh but I still think that Rod is a great coach. To see what he did with that talentless and or heartless D was pretty awesome at Mid season we were the league leader in turnovers. That's impressive with guys like Fernando Bryanat and Keith Smith holding down your D and your first string NT playing half the time..

Bruce Banner
06-21-2008, 04:58 PM
As someone else said before, The system change isn't a two year plan. To use the Tampa 2 (he uses the original cover 2 variant) it takes a complete defensive turnover (for the most part). Combine that with the fact that he wants to have a ZBS on offense and you have a 5 year plan before the team can compete. Trust the system, its works. Marinelli is a real player coach that will bring in "his guys" to run the system. To be completely truthful I would say that Marinelli wanted Gaines Adams with that pick at #2 a year back. A premium pass rusher is the #2 priority with the defensive system and Millen blew it on another wide receiver. Ok, ok, ok...calm down! This isn't an attack on Calvin at all. All I am saying is that the system is bigger than a player.

Iamcanadian
06-26-2008, 12:01 AM
We'll never know if Marinelli is a great HC because Millen will never provide him with the personnel to have a chance to show what he can do. Finally in Marinelli's 3rd year, Millen attempts to provide Marinelli with some weapons, unfortunately it is too late to save Marinelli who will be fired if Ford still permits Millen to keep his job and hire his 4th or 5th HC if you count Martz.
I'm sure he'll be a 3-4 guy so Millen can tell Ford, the new guy will need 3 or 4 years to bring in his kind of personnel. No doubt he'll hire another OC who will utilize Roy and Johnson and get away from the running attack. It's called "Millenism" or how to go in circles for as long as possible.

casskid
06-27-2008, 01:02 AM
Its hard to see both of them being fired this year, but I think it really depends on how they play (duh). If they go 4-12 but keep it close in most games I think that Ford will only see that they kept it close in most games of the games and didnt get blown out so the team must be improving in some weeeeiiird way.

But if they get thier dinks blown off and finish 4-12 to 6-10 I hope that we see at least Millen gone.

Geo
06-27-2008, 02:35 AM
To be completely truthful I would say that Marinelli wanted Gaines Adams with that pick at #2 a year back. A premium pass rusher is the #2 priority with the defensive system and Millen blew it on another wide receiver. Ok, ok, ok...calm down! This isn't an attack on Calvin at all. All I am saying is that the system is bigger than a player.
Ah, that argument. I still support the Calvin Johnson pick all the way.

1. He was the BPA all the way. To me he was the #1 prospect in the Draft nevermind the board, ahead of Jamarcus Russell, and I think we can all agree that CJ's upside/ceiling is higher than that of Gaines Adams - a talented pass rusher, but not one I would consider elite (maybe he'll prove that wrong as a pro). CJ can be an elite #1, worth the money invested ...

2. ... moreso than Roy Williams imo. Williams is a very good receiver, I don't debate that, but between the two I'll take CJ to invest big money in and build around. The Lions should try their best to trade Williams after this season, hopefully for a 1st round pick. Him dressing for 16 games would be a big help, he has only done than once so far in four seasons.

In retrospect, knowing what we know now, Joe Thomas would likely be a more attractive alternative to CJ than Adams would. That's about neck-and-neck, but I still might opt for CJ. He's special.

Now I know that there's been some discussion here about the Lions keeping both Williams and Johnson long-term, given that the Lions have the cap space and no other player on the roster of comparable skill to re-sign soon. That's a valid point, and of course having both plus other weapons and an improved OL would do wonders for the young QB to eventually follow Kitna. I can respect trying to put the QB in the best position to succeed, so that the offense/team can succeed.

However I think re-signing Williams is counter-productive to the Lions' plans, given their goal of becoming a power-running offense. Maybe I've misinterpreted that intention, but if that is the case, then it's almost a waste to have both Williams and Johnson locked up to big money. If you have both, for your own benefit you should be a passing-first/based offense, which is what the league is geared towards these days imo. I honestly feel like the Lions are taking a step back offensively, but that's me and obviously the coaches feel differently to move in the direction they are in. Marinelli must at least, given that he's given the green light as the head coach.

But it can work with CJ as the #1 WR and parting ways with Williams in the next two years. They just need some other good receivers to accompany CJ - the Giants team is a good example of this. They run the ball pretty well, with some power run in there, and receiving-wise have Plax Burress (obviously the prime target for Eli Manning) and some lesser receivers in comparison who can get the job done as the #2/#3/etcetera. Shaun MacDonald is a FA after this season too I believe, he's probably gone.

It will be interesting to see how well this paradigm shift on offense will work, given that Marinelli's job (and likely that of Matt Millen too) could be on the line. Truly, I can't imagine Millen surviving if Marinelli is fired, so they are just about tied to the hip now. Maybe the incredible slack Millen gets can help Marinelli continue his contribution to the rebuilding efforts.

At least he's brought in some more players who fit the scheme, most importantly at DL. Adding to team speed is ideal for the Lions, they play in a dome and two of their division rivals (Packers and Bears) have speed-based offenses. We'll see how the secondary fares.

Iamcanadian
06-29-2008, 08:56 AM
Ah, that argument. I still support the Calvin Johnson pick all the way.

1. He was the BPA all the way. To me he was the #1 prospect in the Draft nevermind the board, ahead of Jamarcus Russell, and I think we can all agree that CJ's upside/ceiling is higher than that of Gaines Adams - a talented pass rusher, but not one I would consider elite (maybe he'll prove that wrong as a pro). CJ can be an elite #1, worth the money invested ...

2. ... moreso than Roy Williams imo. Williams is a very good receiver, I don't debate that, but between the two I'll take CJ to invest big money in and build around. The Lions should try their best to trade Williams after this season, hopefully for a 1st round pick. Him dressing for 16 games would be a big help, he has only done than once so far in four seasons.

In retrospect, knowing what we know now, Joe Thomas would likely be a more attractive alternative to CJ than Adams would. That's about neck-and-neck, but I still might opt for CJ. He's special.

Now I know that there's been some discussion here about the Lions keeping both Williams and Johnson long-term, given that the Lions have the cap space and no other player on the roster of comparable skill to re-sign soon. That's a valid point, and of course having both plus other weapons and an improved OL would do wonders for the young QB to eventually follow Kitna. I can respect trying to put the QB in the best position to succeed, so that the offense/team can succeed.

However I think re-signing Williams is counter-productive to the Lions' plans, given their goal of becoming a power-running offense. Maybe I've misinterpreted that intention, but if that is the case, then it's almost a waste to have both Williams and Johnson locked up to big money. If you have both, for your own benefit you should be a passing-first/based offense, which is what the league is geared towards these days imo. I honestly feel like the Lions are taking a step back offensively, but that's me and obviously the coaches feel differently to move in the direction they are in. Marinelli must at least, given that he's given the green light as the head coach.

But it can work with CJ as the #1 WR and parting ways with Williams in the next two years. They just need some other good receivers to accompany CJ - the Giants team is a good example of this. They run the ball pretty well, with some power run in there, and receiving-wise have Plax Burress (obviously the prime target for Eli Manning) and some lesser receivers in comparison who can get the job done as the #2/#3/etcetera. Shaun MacDonald is a FA after this season too I believe, he's probably gone.

It will be interesting to see how well this paradigm shift on offense will work, given that Marinelli's job (and likely that of Matt Millen too) could be on the line. Truly, I can't imagine Millen surviving if Marinelli is fired, so they are just about tied to the hip now. Maybe the incredible slack Millen gets can help Marinelli continue his contribution to the rebuilding efforts.

At least he's brought in some more players who fit the scheme, most importantly at DL. Adding to team speed is ideal for the Lions, they play in a dome and two of their division rivals (Packers and Bears) have speed-based offenses. We'll see how the secondary fares.

On paper having Roy and Johnson looks great but we are switching to a running attack which Marinelli wanted all along. They will be completely wasted in this offense.
Sure, while we had Martz as the OC, Johnson could have possibly become a huge star but we have seen the end of that offense and having both Roy and Johnson is a complete waste. It is a typical example of Millen's incompetence as a drafter. He spent years drafting WR's only to have a HC who wants to pound the ball.
As for Adams, he was inserted into Tampa's offense in the 2nd half of their season and they immediately made a playoff run culminating in making the playoffs. He is only going to get better as he is almost a perfect DE for a Cover 2 defense. While Johnson spends most of his time blocking for our RB, Adams will become a dominating Cover 2 DE.
I still believe that Tampa Bay suckered Millen into believing they wanted Johnson in order to have Adams fall to them. Unlike Millen, they know how to rebuild a team to make the playoffs while Millen just flounders around without a clue to how to build a winner.

Bruce Banner
06-29-2008, 03:12 PM
On paper having Roy and Johnson looks great but we are switching to a running attack which Marinelli wanted all along. They will be completely wasted in this offense.
Sure, while we had Martz as the OC, Johnson could have possibly become a huge star but we have seen the end of that offense and having both Roy and Johnson is a complete waste. It is a typical example of Millen's incompetence as a drafter. He spent years drafting WR's only to have a HC who wants to pound the ball.
As for Adams, he was inserted into Tampa's offense in the 2nd half of their season and they immediately made a playoff run culminating in making the playoffs. He is only going to get better as he is almost a perfect DE for a Cover 2 defense. While Johnson spends most of his time blocking for our RB, Adams will become a dominating Cover 2 DE.
I still believe that Tampa Bay suckered Millen into believing they wanted Johnson in order to have Adams fall to them. Unlike Millen, they know how to rebuild a team to make the playoffs while Millen just flounders around without a clue to how to build a winner.

Exactly. Who led all rookies in sacks when only starting half of the games?
CJ is special no doubt I just don't like the idea of building around a receiver.

Geo
06-29-2008, 03:44 PM
That was all of six sacks, btw. Three of which came in two games against the battered Falcons in mid-November on.

Bruce Banner
06-29-2008, 03:52 PM
That was all of six sacks, btw. Three of which came in two games against the battered Falcons in mid-November on.

and? That is quality for a rookie DE that only started half of the games.

Calvin can have 200 yard games weekly next year it won't matter if the defense can't keep the other team from scoring 30.