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Shane P. Hallam
02-28-2007, 12:26 PM
Most other boards have this, and I think it can help focus us some. Though I don't post a whole lot here, I do read a lot, and I am interested in this.

I still feel Tomlin will try and go for a guy who can play OLB in 3-4 and DE in Cover 2 at this point. Jarvis Moss looks fairly natural, but there are a lot of ways we can go.

DeathbyStat
02-28-2007, 02:16 PM
This seems accurate to me, but I think Moss's combine hurt him a bit. But I think your right.....three other guys that I think can fit both systems are Okoye, Carriker and Willis but I think they'll be gone by time we pick.

terribletowel39
02-28-2007, 02:25 PM
This seems accurate to me, but I think Moss's combine hurt him a bit. But I think your right.....three other guys that I think can fit both systems are Okoye, Carriker and Willis but I think they'll be gone by time we pick.

something tells me we get carriker, no matter what. seeing the story about how someone in the organization was talking to him and said that he reminded them of a current player almost to the tee. A Smith. someone they just signed to a four year deal. so i don't know.

ok and don't hang me for this, i love anthony smith and think he is going to kill someone eventually with how hard he hits. i think he is going to be beast, but do we pass up on landry if he by some weird mistake/freak of nature drops to 15?? and do this with the other star caliber platyers. if AD, CJ, Branch, Thomas, Adams, Anderson, all those guys. who do you pass on and who do you grab if they fall for some reason.

DeathbyStat
02-28-2007, 02:59 PM
AD-Take

CJ-Take

Branch-take

Thomas-take even though I'm not a big fan

Adams-take

Anderson- pass not a big fan but haven't seen enough tape of him

mikehop05
02-28-2007, 03:00 PM
I grab them all. Any one of them would be an upgrade and a grat pick for us.

Even if its someone like landry, if we are sittig at 15 and hes still there you know dallas and other teams are going to be on the phone with us wanting to trade.

If they don't give enough, we grab landry and then trade him. Much like the Chargers did with Eli Manning.

DeathbyStat
02-28-2007, 03:02 PM
Landry is too good to pass up, he could play deep S with smith and troy could be one hell of a rover.

DeathbyStat
02-28-2007, 03:03 PM
I think all the guys that a really want Willis, Carriker, Okoye will all be gone by time we pick.

I wanted Moss but he had the same combine numbers as Anthony Spencer but was less prodictive in college and both might fall to the second.

mikehop05
02-28-2007, 03:07 PM
I think all the guys that a really want Willis, Carriker, Okoye will all be gone by time we pick.

I wanted Moss but he had the same combine numbers as Anthony Spencer but was less prodictive in college and both might fall to the second.

yeah i agree, honestly there is no one that fits the bill for us at 15 that i want

i hope we trade back or trade up and get someone like okoye

skarocksoi
02-28-2007, 04:54 PM
AD-Take

CJ-Take

Branch-take

Thomas-take even though I'm not a big fan

Adams-take

Anderson- pass not a big fan but haven't seen enough tape of him

I'd agree with that, but theres no way CJ, Thomas, and probably Branch are there at 15. Adams might be there, and if he is, we definitely need to take him. He's fast enough for a linebacker, but can still drop down and play DE when we run a 4-3 alignment.

CDub
03-01-2007, 12:06 AM
something tells me we get carriker, no matter what. seeing the story about how someone in the organization was talking to him and said that he reminded them of a current player almost to the tee. A Smith. someone they just signed to a four year deal. so i don't know.

ok and don't hang me for this, i love anthony smith and think he is going to kill someone eventually with how hard he hits. i think he is going to be beast, but do we pass up on landry if he by some weird mistake/freak of nature drops to 15?? and do this with the other star caliber platyers. if AD, CJ, Branch, Thomas, Adams, Anderson, all those guys. who do you pass on and who do you grab if they fall for some reason.


AD-Take

CJ-Take

Branch-take

Thomas-take even though I'm not a big fan

Adams-take

Anderson- pass not a big fan but haven't seen enough tape of him


I think you guys are missing the point of his question....

IF all of these guys SOMEHOW fell and were all available at 15 - who would you pass on and who would you take?

Personally, I take CJ and pass on everyone else.

AD - well, we've already got a proven starter in Willie so no sense drafting a "complimentary" back in the 1st

Branch - if we stick with the 3-4 Casey can hold it down, if we go 4-3 we move Smith inside and find someone to play end, most likely Haggans

Thomas - what we've got at the T spots right now will be good enough to let Ben toss it up to CJ

Adams/Anderson - there's enough talent to be had in the 2nd and 3rd to make up for passing on one in the 1st

CJ - NOBODY- repeat - NOBODY on our squad right now can match his blend of speed, size, and athleticism, least of all any of our WRs. And that is why I pass on everyone else and take the most sure-fire prospect in years.

mikehop05
03-01-2007, 12:14 AM
I think you guys are missing the point of his question....

IF all of these guys SOMEHOW fell and were all available at 15 - who would you pass on and who would you take?

Personally, I take CJ and pass on everyone else.

AD - well, we've already got a proven starter in Willie so no sense drafting a "complimentary" back in the 1st

Branch - if we stick with the 3-4 Casey can hold it down, if we go 4-3 we move Smith inside and find someone to play end, most likely Haggans

Thomas - what we've got at the T spots right now will be good enough to let Ben toss it up to CJ

Adams/Anderson - there's enough talent to be had in the 2nd and 3rd to make up for passing on one in the 1st

CJ - NOBODY- repeat - NOBODY on our squad right now can match his blend of speed, size, and athleticism, least of all any of our WRs. And that is why I pass on everyone else and take the most sure-fire prospect in years.


no, we dont pass on anyone

if any of them fall to us at 15 then we wake them and figure out a way to paly them or trade them after we take em

terribletowel39
03-01-2007, 12:35 AM
I think you guys are missing the point of his question....

IF all of these guys SOMEHOW fell and were all available at 15 - who would you pass on and who would you take?

Personally, I take CJ and pass on everyone else.

AD - well, we've already got a proven starter in Willie so no sense drafting a "complimentary" back in the 1st

Branch - if we stick with the 3-4 Casey can hold it down, if we go 4-3 we move Smith inside and find someone to play end, most likely Haggans

Thomas - what we've got at the T spots right now will be good enough to let Ben toss it up to CJ

Adams/Anderson - there's enough talent to be had in the 2nd and 3rd to make up for passing on one in the 1st

CJ - NOBODY- repeat - NOBODY on our squad right now can match his blend of speed, size, and athleticism, least of all any of our WRs. And that is why I pass on everyone else and take the most sure-fire prospect in years.

good man. i think CJ too.

steelernation77
03-01-2007, 08:45 AM
good man. i think CJ too.

No way we pass on Adams if he drops to us.

skarocksoi
03-01-2007, 10:21 AM
adams is probably one guy that we would trade up to get and the one guy I would be alright with us trading up to get. I'm interested in who scott gives us in the next mock, whether he stays with Moss or goes back to Carriker. I think both of those guys are a strong possibility/

Mr. Stiller
03-01-2007, 10:50 AM
good man. i think CJ too.

Is it Just me or do I think they were referring to Charles Johnson, DE, Georgia, because there is no way Calvin Johnson falls to 15.

I don't like Carriker either. He's what you call strictly a workout warrior. He never produced in games and he only shows up in practices. I think Spencer is the best 1st round pick outside of Calvin Johnson, Gaines Adams.

As for the talk of Alan Branch. Although he's a Tackle and could play NT in the 3-4, with his size and athleticism, he'd be much more proficient as a 3-4 DE. He could eat up blockers and stuff the run game. Allowing Lb's to come in easier.


Free Agency Notice:

Potential Guys I like:

Sammy Morris, Rb, Miami
Chris Brown, RB, Tennessee
Antwan Peek, OLB, Houston

Guys to be cut:

Porter, Wilson, Gardocki, Morey.

Man_Of_Steel
03-01-2007, 02:47 PM
If Laundry falls we gotta take him.

Mr. Stiller
03-01-2007, 03:32 PM
If Laundry falls we gotta take him.

Why?

Where would he play? We're set at safety. We have 3 guys that could all potentially start, and Carter wasn't too shabby filling in for Troy P. last season. If you feel the need to take a safety, at least take one capable of moving to Corner.

Shane P. Hallam
03-01-2007, 10:19 PM
Yeah, I don't think we would take Landry.

Plus, with Smith resigned, no Carriker. Hampton and Smith give us a NT and UT for the Cover 2. We need DEs for the cover 2, which usually fits guys like Jarvis Moss, Quentin Moses, Anthony Spencer, etc. With Porter out especially, an OLB is a need and a rush backer that can play DE in Cover 2 would be PERFECT.

Mr. Stiller
03-01-2007, 10:25 PM
Yeah, I don't think we would take Landry.

Plus, with Smith resigned, no Carriker. Hampton and Smith give us a NT and UT for the Cover 2. We need DEs for the cover 2, which usually fits guys like Jarvis Moss, Quentin Moses, Anthony Spencer, etc. With Porter out especially, an OLB is a need and a rush backer that can play DE in Cover 2 would be PERFECT.

Antwan Peek in UFA

Charles Johnson/Anthony Spencer in the draft. We'll be set.

Mr. Stiller
03-01-2007, 10:30 PM
Yeah, I don't think we would take Landry.

Plus, with Smith resigned, no Carriker. Hampton and Smith give us a NT and UT for the Cover 2. We need DEs for the cover 2, which usually fits guys like Jarvis Moss, Quentin Moses, Anthony Spencer, etc. With Porter out especially, an OLB is a need and a rush backer that can play DE in Cover 2 would be PERFECT.

I don't like Moss or Moses... Moses showed up unathletic and overweight.. Moss put in average times for a speed rusher and wasn't as fluid as people though. He also posted to worst reps of DE's. I think he'll be a good Speed Rusher, but thats all he brings and neither of those 2 are worth a 1st/2nd to us.

Another guy that tested really well and isnt' getting much hype.. Tim Crowder. He showed he could play OLB (Being really fluid) Posting good times/strength indications.

I wouldn't mind the duo of Spencer/Johnson and Crowder.

CDub
03-01-2007, 10:43 PM
no, we dont pass on anyone

if any of them fall to us at 15 then we wake them and figure out a way to paly them or trade them after we take em

The point of his question was IF THEY WERE ALL THERE. You can't take them all with one pick. So...if they were ALL there at 15 (and believe me, we all know it won't happen) who do you take?

I like this question because it gives us a chance to determine what our individual priorities are. If you take Branch over the rest then we know where your priorities are and vise versa if you take Calvin over the rest. It's kinda like asking what you would do with the 1st overall pick.

Smooth Criminal
03-01-2007, 10:47 PM
I want Willis now. After locking up Smith for 4 more years DE isn't as pressing of a need as LB. Willis is very athletic, has great size and ran a great 40 time. I'd love to get him at 15. He can't play DE in a 4-3, but he can play any linebacker.

I don't think Moss or Moses are worth taking at 15. Maybe Woodley in round 2.

Mr. Stiller
03-01-2007, 11:23 PM
I want Willis now. After locking up Smith for 4 more years DE isn't as pressing of a need as LB. Willis is very athletic, has great size and ran a great 40 time. I'd love to get him at 15. He can't play DE in a 4-3, but he can play any linebacker.

I don't think Moss or Moses are worth taking at 15. Maybe Woodley in round 2.

Woodley is falling. Some predict Day 2. I don't like Willis, I don't think he's as good of a tackler as some thing. I'd prefer Rory Johnson over him in rd 3. I think since we're sticking to a 3-4, I'd rather get good Ol David Harris.

mikehop05
03-01-2007, 11:26 PM
so the question is...

who do we take at 15?

Mr. Stiller
03-01-2007, 11:43 PM
so the question is...

who do we take at 15?

Everything the Jets or Denver will give us for it.

With Denver getting a CB, don't rule out they may trade up for good Ol Marshawn Lynch.

I could still see us trading down with GB for a 4th, then trading down again.

Frankly I wouldn't mind doing a ton of things.

our first for NYJ's 2-2nds and a 4th.
Our first for a future 1st and a 2nd/3rd.

you know the usual.

At 15... Adams, Branch, or BPA.

I'll admit, I'm not a fan of Timmons, Okoye, or Willis.

mikehop05
03-01-2007, 11:59 PM
given adams and brach are gone and we dont/cant trade down...

what do we do?

do we reach for moss / spencer? (2 guys i do not like personally in the first)

do we go offensive and grab jarrett? bowe?

if levi is there do we grab him??

Mr. Stiller
03-02-2007, 12:05 AM
given adams and brach are gone and we dont/cant trade down...

what do we do?

do we reach for moss / spencer? (2 guys i do not like personally in the first)

do we go offensive and grab jarrett? bowe?

if levi is there do we grab him??

Personally. I may strike a nerve here. but..

If Adams/Branch are gone. And Being I don't want Carriker/Okoye/Willis.

Levi Brown, Ted Ginn, or BPA.

mikehop05
03-02-2007, 12:14 AM
Personally. I may strike a nerve here. but..

If Adams/Branch are gone. And Being I don't want Carriker/Okoye/Willis.

Levi Brown, Ted Ginn, or BPA.

BPA i agree but i think jarrett is a beter fit for us right now than holmes is

ginn and holmes are very similiar type players

Mr. Stiller
03-02-2007, 12:17 AM
BPA i agree but i think jarrett is a beter fit for us right now than holmes is

ginn and holmes are very similiar type players

Granted, but I dont' trust Jarrett, it's not the Mike Williams theory.

But he just seems to reek of Lendale White Syndrome.

Ginn and Holmes are Similar players. You can add a big possession WR Next year or later in the draft (There's tons these next 2 years).

However, with Ginn, you get a monstrous Gunner, with great Special Teams ability and gives us a solid Possession Reciever. Holmes is more of a make a play with the ball in his hands Vertical threat (As seen in Cincy in overtime) whereas Ginns a Catch me if you can big Play Reciever.

mikehop05
03-02-2007, 12:35 AM
Granted, but I dont' trust Jarrett, it's not the Mike Williams theory.

But he just seems to reek of Lendale White Syndrome.

Ginn and Holmes are Similar players. You can add a big possession WR Next year or later in the draft (There's tons these next 2 years).

However, with Ginn, you get a monstrous Gunner, with great Special Teams ability and gives us a solid Possession Reciever. Holmes is more of a make a play with the ball in his hands Vertical threat (As seen in Cincy in overtime) whereas Ginns a Catch me if you can big Play Reciever.

what about bowe?

i knowww you dont like him cuz of the dropsies, but hes a big physical guy who can also make plays

Shane P. Hallam
03-02-2007, 07:40 AM
I want Willis now. After locking up Smith for 4 more years DE isn't as pressing of a need as LB. Willis is very athletic, has great size and ran a great 40 time. I'd love to get him at 15. He can't play DE in a 4-3, but he can play any linebacker.

I don't think Moss or Moses are worth taking at 15. Maybe Woodley in round 2.

Smith won't play DE in Cover 2, he'll be the UT. We need a DE.

I think Spencer could be worth a first rounder. I think he is underrated and he will be back up.

Willis could be a possibility, we may need more LBs in Cover 2, but right now we don't.

And no, we aren't taking a WR in the first, you need to get off of that. A red zone threat later in the draft? Sure, but we got enough offensive fire power. Even with our poor stats last year, guys will improve and we'll be fine.

Smooth Criminal
03-02-2007, 08:20 AM
Smith won't play DE in Cover 2, he'll be the UT. We need a DE.

I think Spencer could be worth a first rounder. I think he is underrated and he will be back up.

Willis could be a possibility, we may need more LBs in Cover 2, but right now we don't.

And no, we aren't taking a WR in the first, you need to get off of that. A red zone threat later in the draft? Sure, but we got enough offensive fire power. Even with our poor stats last year, guys will improve and we'll be fine.

I meant a 3-4 DE. Its still pretty clear we need an end rusher that can play OLB aswell.

Adams would be perfect but I don't think we have any shot to even trade up for him.

I want a 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE. Not to many guys in this draft like that worth 15 so I'd trade back.

Levi Brown is a possibility as well. You can never have to many good lineman.

PittPete
03-02-2007, 11:04 AM
Unless one of the top guys drops into our lap at 15, I hope we trade down and get say, late 1st round and an extra second. There are usually quite a few quality players that are sitting there in round two and we could pick up 3 potentially premier players for 2008. I would like to get an offensive lineman(Blalock/Ramirez), corner(ross/hughes) and linebacker. There are quite a few lbs that should be available in rd s 2 and 3, we could get both outside and inside. Remember, we are really drafting for 2008, as our lineup is largely set and few rookies are ready for nfl play right away anyhow.

mikehop05
03-02-2007, 12:23 PM
Unless one of the top guys drops into our lap at 15, I hope we trade down and get say, late 1st round and an extra second. There are usually quite a few quality players that are sitting there in round two and we could pick up 3 potentially premier players for 2008. I would like to get an offensive lineman(Blalock/Ramirez), corner(ross/hughes) and linebacker. There are quite a few lbs that should be available in rd s 2 and 3, we could get both outside and inside. Remember, we are really drafting for 2008, as our lineup is largely set and few rookies are ready for nfl play right away anyhow.

why would we draft for 08?

right now we have several competing spots that rookies can win on the line (o and D) expecially if we do some hybrid 4 - 3 looks.

Also, WR is not set, we have ward and holmes 1 and 2, but after that a rookie can definetly grab the # 3.

terribletowel39
03-02-2007, 12:30 PM
why would we draft for 08?

right now we have several competing spots that rookies can win on the line (o and D) expecially if we do some hybrid 4 - 3 looks.

Also, WR is not set, we have ward and holmes 1 and 2, but after that a rookie can definetly grab the # 3.

i agree with you on the WR bit but we hardly ever have a rookie on defense come in and start because LeBeaus 34 is do damn complicated that it would take an excellent rookie from harvard to be able to grasp it to be able to start. troy p. the best guy on our D didn't start his first year because of the 34 and its difficulties. i think mainly we are drafting for the 08 year because of the fact that we don't tend to start rookies for year, play them occasionally yes but not start them.

mikehop05
03-02-2007, 12:37 PM
i agree with you on the WR bit but we hardly ever have a rookie on defense come in and start because LeBeaus 34 is do damn complicated that it would take an excellent rookie from harvard to be able to grasp it to be able to start. troy p. the best guy on our D didn't start his first year because of the 34 and its difficulties. i think mainly we are drafting for the 08 year because of the fact that we don't tend to start rookies for year, play them occasionally yes but not start them.

anthony smith started 6 games last year

i think starting on the line is a lot different then starting in the secondary...

theres only so much you can do on the line, but the secondary the possibilities are many

im just saying if we runa 4 - 3, theres gonna be spots open for competition, mainly the DE's spots

terribletowel39
03-02-2007, 12:51 PM
anthony smith started 6 games last year

i think starting on the line is a lot different then starting in the secondary...

theres only so much you can do on the line, but the secondary the possibilities are many

im just saying if we runa 4 - 3, theres gonna be spots open for competition, mainly the DE's spots

yea but it was some of the last 6 games and wasn't clark injured, granted he looked more than ready and i wish they would have started him over clark from like week 2 or so.

i thought tomlin already said that def this year is strictly 34. whatever the case, if we do run 4-3 there will be some spots open for competition but once again the rookies are not going to have the advantage over vets. but could possibly happen.

mikehop05
03-02-2007, 01:29 PM
yea but it was some of the last 6 games and wasn't clark injured, granted he looked more than ready and i wish they would have started him over clark from like week 2 or so.

i thought tomlin already said that def this year is strictly 34. whatever the case, if we do run 4-3 there will be some spots open for competition but once again the rookies are not going to have the advantage over vets. but could possibly happen.

yeah and i really dont know whats gonna happen, but im just saying you dont draft necessarily for the year after... even if we seem pretty set now

competition is always healthy for the vets

Mr. Stiller
03-02-2007, 03:05 PM
yea but it was some of the last 6 games and wasn't clark injured, granted he looked more than ready and i wish they would have started him over clark from like week 2 or so.

i thought tomlin already said that def this year is strictly 34. whatever the case, if we do run 4-3 there will be some spots open for competition but once again the rookies are not going to have the advantage over vets. but could possibly happen.

I think if we get the right DE/OLB guy we'll see SOME 4-3 sets, but I don't think we're going to transition. If we were Tomlin would be smart enough to do it Asap because frankly, it takes about 3 years to get a full transition properly. Problem with it is Ben/Troy/Santonio/Heath will be coming into their primes, So I think he's going to configure a Hybrid down the road, much like the Dolphins. All you need is a good pass rushing DE with abililty in Coverage like Jason Taylor, and you can play any formation you want. Only thing we can do now is wait.

Mr. Stiller
03-02-2007, 03:11 PM
A new Mock is coming.

Guys want to Laugh?

Remember JoeMontainya with his "We got Steinbach and Clements."

Word has it Clements is on the plane to join SF and Steinbach is going to Tampa Bay to Play LT.

Shane P. Hallam
03-03-2007, 12:03 AM
Well, now we know Steinbach is with the Browns..

PittPete
03-03-2007, 03:14 PM
I'll bet the house that not one draft pick(unless its a punter) will start at the beginning of this year for the steelers. The only open spots anyhow are center and Porter's lb position and Harrison will likely get that. 2008 might be scary because we may have to face losing several longtime players; Faneca, troy, Haggins, Kreider and who knows who will get injured. It's better to draft to fill holes before they open. As for wideouts, why is everyone antsy about our receivers? Hines and Holmes are great; Washington and Wilson are good #3s, would be great if they could hold onto the ball more and dont forget Wille Reid. Last year in preseason, Reid looked like our best receiver. I would only grab a wideout late in the draft for some roster competition.

mikehop05
03-03-2007, 03:31 PM
I'll bet the house that not one draft pick(unless its a punter) will start at the beginning of this year for the steelers. The only open spots anyhow are center and Porter's lb position and Harrison will likely get that. 2008 might be scary because we may have to face losing several longtime players; Faneca, troy, Haggins, Kreider and who knows who will get injured. It's better to draft to fill holes before they open. As for wideouts, why is everyone antsy about our receivers? Hines and Holmes are great; Washington and Wilson are good #3s, would be great if they could hold onto the ball more and dont forget Wille Reid. Last year in preseason, Reid looked like our best receiver. I would only grab a wideout late in the draft for some roster competition.

ill take that bet, especially after the draft after i see who we get

Shane P. Hallam
03-04-2007, 02:29 PM
I wouldn't take it. We rarely start rookies at the beginning of the year. See Santonio, Ben, Smith, Troy, etc. etc. etc.

brat316
03-04-2007, 02:51 PM
I think if we are sitting and dont move in the draft we should get BPA and i think that is going to be Dwanye Bowe or maybe maybe Willis i mean i dont see many of the other teams in front of use taking him expect for San Francis Buffalo St. Louis thats if we dont trade down

brat316
03-04-2007, 03:06 PM
you guys think we are going to try and get Banta Cain from FA

mikehop05
03-04-2007, 03:49 PM
you guys think we are going to try and get Banta Cain from FA

i think we should see what kinda $ hes looking for first then possibly explore that avenue

Mr. Stiller
03-06-2007, 12:05 AM
I wouldn't take it. We rarely start rookies at the beginning of the year. See Santonio, Ben, Smith, Troy, etc. etc. etc.

True. I'd be more surprised to see a defensive rookie start than an offensive rookie start this coming season.


Offense is being streamlined. It was called "A Hodge-podge and mess of 7 different O Coordinators languages". Now Arians is redesigning it and Rookies could start on Offense earlier.

then again with Haggans/Harrison the only OLB's.. don't be surprised to see Anthony Spencer light up the stage.

Mr. Stiller
03-06-2007, 12:08 AM
you guys think we are going to try and get Banta Cain from FA

He's coming in for a visit, but I'd rather not...

Quick facts:


Played for New England
Was the Pass Rusher behind Richard Seymour
Was not even pursued by NE


Hmm. The fact that NE has enough money to pay Adalius Thomas, Kyle Brady, Wes Welker, and even has the room to throw money at Randy Moss (They really want him)... and they made no attempt at Banta Cain? That should speak volumes about him. He's been on the market, seen 4-5 teams and no one has even made an offer.

I don't like it. Not one bit. I think we have better options in the draft.

brat316
03-06-2007, 04:53 PM
i would rather want to draft LB rather than gettin DE's and turning them into lb's

TheGunShow
03-06-2007, 05:57 PM
Granted, but I dont' trust Jarrett, it's not the Mike Williams theory.

But he just seems to reek of Lendale White Syndrome.

Ginn and Holmes are Similar players. You can add a big possession WR Next year or later in the draft (There's tons these next 2 years).

However, with Ginn, you get a monstrous Gunner, with great Special Teams ability and gives us a solid Possession Reciever. Holmes is more of a make a play with the ball in his hands Vertical threat (As seen in Cincy in overtime) whereas Ginns a Catch me if you can big Play Reciever.

Mr. Stiller, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

mikehop05
03-06-2007, 06:42 PM
Mr. Stiller, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

?

It is okay to disagree with someone but provide why you think so and the reasons why you do, this type of **** is just pointless

Man_Of_Steel
03-06-2007, 07:00 PM
?

It is okay to disagree with someone but provide why you think so and the reasons why you do, this type of **** is just pointless

LOL, thats from the movie Billy Madison MHop.

mikehop05
03-06-2007, 07:04 PM
LOL, thats from the movie Billy Madison MHop.

yeah i know but all these guys posts are like this

Man_Of_Steel
03-06-2007, 07:09 PM
yeah i know but all these guys posts are like this

These guys?
Oh gotcha, gun show people

mikehop05
03-06-2007, 07:18 PM
no these guy's

sorry i didnt put in the apostrophe

skarocksoi
03-06-2007, 09:31 PM
I don't like Ginn at all. Might be cause I'm a Penn Stater, but I think he's gonna be a bust, and I dont think we need him. Santonio is our speed guy and I'm not gonna justify a pick on another fast reciever because he's also could be a good special teamer. I'd be pretty upset if we took a receiver in the first again.

mikehop05
03-06-2007, 09:56 PM
I don't like Ginn at all. Might be cause I'm a Penn Stater, but I think he's gonna be a bust, and I dont think we need him. Santonio is our speed guy and I'm not gonna justify a pick on another fast reciever because he's also could be a good special teamer. I'd be pretty upset if we took a receiver in the first again.

i dont really like ginn either, i mean i like him just not with the steelers, we need a big target guy, not ginn

brat316
03-06-2007, 11:41 PM
We have speed recievers we need possiesion recivers to compliment them, We have Ward now, but who is after him Wilson but not many people like him

Only pick i can think of would be Dawyne Bowie if we decide to pick receiver, my reason why becuase he is that possesion reciver that we need

We have a ST WR Willie Reid if he didnt get injured he was suppose to be returning kicks and punt instead of Holmes

mikehop05
03-06-2007, 11:46 PM
We have speed recievers we need possiesion recivers to compliment them, We have Ward now, but who is after him Wilson but not many people like him

Only pick i can think of would be Dawyne Bowie if we decide to pick receiver, my reason why becuase he is that possesion reciver that we need

We have a ST WR Willie Reid if he didnt get injured he was suppose to be returning kicks and punt instead of Holmes

yeah i agree on all counts

Mr. Stiller
03-07-2007, 12:34 AM
Mr. Stiller, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

... The fact I think Jarrett is lazy?

You're going to have to explain how it was irrational. Are you going to try and read all my posts now trying to point out any mistake or inconsistancy? Apparently to you I should be sorry to have an opinion? Atleast when I reply to a thread I provide detailed thought as to my opinion or why I believe what I believe.


I don't see how "HAHA YOUR AN IDIOT" makes anyone in the room smarter.

The fact you went the whole way back to March 2nd just to try to make me look like an idiot... is almost amusing. I think I have a stalker.

For you, I'll explain it easier.

Ginn is pure straight line speed. Meaning. If you want him to run go routes.. or streaks. He's your WR. That differs from Holmes, because Holmes isn't as fast straight line as Ginn. Ginn has a faster top gear, But Holmes has better burst. Meaning.

On the line, Ginn will run further faster, but his routes suffer because he's not a guy that gets up to top speed immediately. Holmes can run all the different routes and be effective because his burst is fast enough that he can change directions, move laterally and be able to change pace/direction making it difficult to cover.


So what you just read was.

Ginn can run far fast.

Holmes has a faster stop and go. Allowing his change of direction and making him a threat on every route, where Ginn is a pure deep threat.

Mr. Stiller
03-07-2007, 12:35 AM
We have speed recievers we need possiesion recivers to compliment them, We have Ward now, but who is after him Wilson but not many people like him

Only pick i can think of would be Dawyne Bowie if we decide to pick receiver, my reason why becuase he is that possesion reciver that we need

We have a ST WR Willie Reid if he didnt get injured he was suppose to be returning kicks and punt instead of Holmes

Bowe is a physical specimen but he has the dropsies. The Lasik surgery helped some, but he's still got catching issues. I think a guy like Steve Smith would be a much better choice in the possession department.

brat316
03-07-2007, 12:48 AM
yeah i was going to add that, i just read some things on him yeah he would be a good pick in the 4th or 3rd Category he is a possesion Reciver

another player i like can be gotten in the 5th 6th round is Jacob Jones

Mr. Stiller
03-07-2007, 01:03 AM
yeah i was going to add that, i just read some things on him yeah he would be a good pick in the 4th or 3rd Category he is a possesion Reciver

another player i like can be gotten in the 5th 6th round is Jacob Jones

I like Jacoby As well..

After watching quite a few games. I really think James Jones is going to be a late round Steal.

mikehop05
03-07-2007, 01:07 AM
rank our top 7 needs in the draft, why 7? don't really know, but 5s too few and 100 too many

1. OLB/DE (tweener)- Harrison and Hagans provide adequate starters, but there is little depth and both have had injuries recently.
2. Guard - Faneca will want to get paid next year and we prolly wont fork out the dough with other players wanting to be paid too. We have some decent players, Kemuateau, Colon, (simmons sucks) but they are unproven at this point and they can be upgraded (colon may have to play RT)
3. MLB/ ILB - Foote is solid, and so is Farrior, but Farrior is getting old and Foote isnt exactly a play maker / game changer on defense.
4. Power back - Willie is a great back and I think he will flourish in our offense this year, but we need a grinder and a guy who can consistently get those 3 - 4 yards in definite run situations and fall forward when getting hit.
5. Return man -Yes we have willie reid but hes unproven. Coke has battled injuries and was never a huge threat. Najeh is solid but not a game changer, Holmes well... 'nuff said. We had the worst average starting position last year.
6. Defensive end ( 3- 4) - Smith is good and really just solid, and kiesel is pretty good too, but we need depth as they are both getting older.
7. Big target WR - Ben needs someone to throw it up to, ala plexiglass, which would hopefully eliminate all those redzone turnovers.

terribletowel39
03-07-2007, 09:47 AM
Bowe is a physical specimen but he has the dropsies. The Lasik surgery helped some, but he's still got catching issues. I think a guy like Steve Smith would be a much better choice in the possession department.

i don't want a WR in the 1st and i think i would be okay with one in the 2nd though, with gonz, steve smith and craig davis there in the 2nd more than likely, i would choose craig davis or gonz over smith though. maybe gonz over davis but either three would do, just my personal preference where i think in a weaker class those three could go in the 1st, they are all very very similar.

terribletowel39
03-07-2007, 09:48 AM
yeah i was going to add that, i just read some things on him yeah he would be a good pick in the 4th or 3rd Category he is a possesion Reciver

another player i like can be gotten in the 5th 6th round is Jacob Jones

I like Jacoby As well..

After watching quite a few games. I really think James Jones is going to be a late round Steal.

really confused with this convo. jacob jones and then jacoby and then james jones......i don't know who anyone is talking about.

terribletowel39
03-07-2007, 10:04 AM
rank our top 7 needs in the draft, why 7? don't really know, but 5s too few and 100 too many

1. OLB/DE (tweener)- Harrison and Hagans provide adequate starters, but there is little depth and both have had injuries recently.
2. Guard - Faneca will want to get paid next year and we prolly wont fork out the dough with other players wanting to be paid too. We have some decent players, Kemuateau, Colon, (simmons sucks) but they are unproven at this point and they can be upgraded (colon may have to play RT)
3. MLB/ ILB - Foote is solid, and so is Farrior, but Farrior is getting old and Foote isnt exactly a play maker / game changer on defense.
4. Power back - Willie is a great back and I think he will flourish in our offense this year, but we need a grinder and a guy who can consistently get those 3 - 4 yards in definite run situations and fall forward when getting hit.
5. Return man -Yes we have willie reid but hes unproven. Coke has battled injuries and was never a huge threat. Najeh is solid but not a game changer, Holmes well... 'nuff said. We had the worst average starting position last year.
6. Defensive end ( 3- 4) - Smith is good and really just solid, and kiesel is pretty good too, but we need depth as they are both getting older.
7. Big target WR - Ben needs someone to throw it up to, ala plexiglass, which would hopefully eliminate all those redzone turnovers.

me likey the break down.

i love me some harrison, i think he will be able to fill the shoes of joey porter and he is young and maybe even eventually fill his leader role, don't know how he acts with the spotlight on him.

i agree with you that we need to grab a G/C prospect and even though i am not sure he can play C, i love me some ramirez and think we should take him.

to be honest with you, foote is my fav player on the defense. odd i know but i love how you can hardly ever call him out on missing an assignment or play or tackle. and i love his foote tat. :D but i do think bishop or waters should be picked up sometime to start grooming for farrior once he leaves.

i believe we need a powerback but i think that can wait until next yr. don't think it is necessary and the only guy i think can really work for us is hunt and i don't want to pick him up in the 2nd like he will go. maybe ilaoa as a UDFA would be sweet, i would love to see him in black and maize.

i believe in willie reid and think he will be a terrific KR/PR for us. along with najeh back there grabbing kickoffs we will be set.

the only other guy i can think to grab in the draft that will be anywhere near close, even though i guess there is time to groom since aa smith signed a new contract, but besides carriker, you have to look at ilama-francis(sp?) although i don't know if he will be there when i would want to pick him.

as for big WR target if we don't crab a sure handed, maybe not big WR target early on in steve smith, anthony gonzo, or craig davis. then i would look at that guy fairooz, or trannon. they both are super big and have decent times. you don't look for gigantic ppl to fly down the field unless you last name is johnson or moss. ;)

TheGunShow
03-07-2007, 03:01 PM
... The fact I think Jarrett is lazy?

You're going to have to explain how it was irrational. Are you going to try and read all my posts now trying to point out any mistake or inconsistancy? Apparently to you I should be sorry to have an opinion? Atleast when I reply to a thread I provide detailed thought as to my opinion or why I believe what I believe.


I don't see how "HAHA YOUR AN IDIOT" makes anyone in the room smarter.

The fact you went the whole way back to March 2nd just to try to make me look like an idiot... is almost amusing. I think I have a stalker.

For you, I'll explain it easier.

Ginn is pure straight line speed. Meaning. If you want him to run go routes.. or streaks. He's your WR. That differs from Holmes, because Holmes isn't as fast straight line as Ginn. Ginn has a faster top gear, But Holmes has better burst. Meaning.

On the line, Ginn will run further faster, but his routes suffer because he's not a guy that gets up to top speed immediately. Holmes can run all the different routes and be effective because his burst is fast enough that he can change directions, move laterally and be able to change pace/direction making it difficult to cover.


So what you just read was.

Ginn can run far fast.

Holmes has a faster stop and go. Allowing his change of direction and making him a threat on every route, where Ginn is a pure deep threat.

If you think Jarrett is lazy that's fine. I don't know where you get this from, probably those scouts you know so well again.

My problem is this.

However, with Ginn, you get a monstrous Gunner, with great Special Teams ability and gives us a solid Possession Reciever.

Ginn is a Possession receiver? Not in the least. I am a Penn St. fan and I hate Ohio St. But Ted Ginn is the reason why Holmes was drafted in the first and the reason Gonzalez will be drafted so early.

Watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGyrgqOKZLg

First play he catches a Ball for a four yards off the line of scrimmage. He breaks four tackles to go 55 yards for a TD.

Second play is a punt return where he breaks five tackles up the gut to go 65 yards for the TD.

Next one is a 68 yard punt return for a TD where he does just use his 4.2 speed.

Then it's a a reverse that if not for a great tackle he is in for a 55 yard TD run.

It goes on for five and a half more minutes after that...

brat316
03-07-2007, 03:02 PM
really confused with this convo. jacob jones and then jacoby and then james jones......i don't know who anyone is talking about.

well James Jones is a WR same tallents as Jacoby Jones

Jacoby Jones is another WR but i just didnt spell out his name with they Y

terribletowel39
03-07-2007, 03:11 PM
EDIT: this is directed at theweemanshow

i guess mr. stiller and i know the same scouts because i have heard jarrett is lazy on the little sports news i can get from podcasts. and the possession comment had to have been a mistake yes. you have to think that before you trash him. he is a deep threat and PR/KR only and everyone knows that. and you act like mar 2nd was a long time ago. that comment is on the 1st or 2nd page of this thread, it's not like he has to search for it. you come in here and automatically start calling ppl idiots for sharing there opinion. you are a newb. fall in line. and yes i know i am newb but you don't see me jumping on ppl and calling them stupid and idiots for no apparent reason, just because i don't agree with them. grow up.

terribletowel39
03-07-2007, 03:11 PM
well James Jones is a WR same tallents as Jacoby Jones

Jacoby Jones is another WR but i just didnt spell out his name with they Y

haha okay i get it now. appreciate you clarifying that.

mikehop05
03-07-2007, 03:20 PM
i guess mr. stiller and i know the same scouts because i have heard jarrett is lazy on the little sports news i can get from podcasts. and the possession comment had to have been a mistake yes. you have to think that before you trash him. he is a deep threat and PR/KR only and everyone knows that. and you act like mar 2nd was a long time ago. that comment is on the 1st or 2nd page of this thread, it's not like he has to search for it. you come in here and automatically start calling ppl idiots for sharing there opinion. you are a newb. fall in line. and yes i know i am newb but you don't see me jumping on ppl and calling them stupid and idiots for no apparent reason, just because i don't agree with them. grow up.

amen brotha

terribletowel39
03-07-2007, 03:26 PM
amen brotha

i know i said no arguing but i couldn't help it. haha oh well so much for that.

TheGunShow
03-07-2007, 03:36 PM
EDIT: this is directed at theweemanshow

i guess mr. stiller and i know the same scouts because i have heard jarrett is lazy on the little sports news i can get from podcasts. and the possession comment had to have been a mistake yes. you have to think that before you trash him. he is a deep threat and PR/KR only and everyone knows that. and you act like mar 2nd was a long time ago. that comment is on the 1st or 2nd page of this thread, it's not like he has to search for it. you come in here and automatically start calling ppl idiots for sharing there opinion. you are a newb. fall in line. and yes i know i am newb but you don't see me jumping on ppl and calling them stupid and idiots for no apparent reason, just because i don't agree with them. grow up.

So you heard it from one source and now it's fact.... sure. Sorry internet tough guy I haven't seen anything to make me just ASSUME he's lazy. But like I said if that's your opinion that's fine.

And the possession receiver comment was a mistake. THAT WAS MY POINT!! It was a stupid comment. And if he meant by possession receiver deep threat receiver I would have this to say. Can you teach a WR to run routes? Yes. Can you teach a receiver to have sub 4.3 speed? No.

And I'm fine with people sharing their OPINIONS. But when someone tries to pass their OPINION off as fact and then makes up crap about scouts and what coaches say I'm going to call them out. So why don't you get your facts straight internet tough guy then talk to me!

mikehop05
03-07-2007, 03:41 PM
so i spent about 30 minutes going to about 50 recent and different mock draft sites and was looking at their picks for the steelers... this is the data i found

Jarvis Moss - overwhleimgly had approx. 20 picks
Levi Brown - 4 picks
Leon Hall - 4 picks
Darrell Revis - 4 picks
Paul Pos. - 3 picks
Adam Carriker - 3 picks
Jamaal Anderson - 3 picks
Lawrence Timmons - 3 picks
Patrick Willis - 1 pick
Reggie Nelson (surprised here) - 1 pick
Robert Meachem - 1 pick
Charles Johnson - 1 pick
Ryan Kalil - 1 pick
Justin Blalock (not counting really, site hadnt been updated ina couple months)

Some thoughts:

Moss is the overwheling favorite with about 40% of the votes

Spencer didn't get 1 vote

If you put the corners together they made up approx 20% of the picks

Meachem was seen usually around the 15 - 25 range, but i saw a mock or two with him in the top 10

about 90% of the votes were for defense

terribletowel39
03-07-2007, 03:43 PM
So you heard it from one source and now it's fact.... sure. Sorry internet tough guy I haven't seen anything to make me just ASSUME he's lazy. But like I said if that's your opinion that's fine.

And the possession receiver comment was a mistake. THAT WAS MY POINT!! It was a stupid comment. And if he meant by possession receiver deep threat receiver I would have this to say. Can you teach a WR to run routes? Yes. Can you teach a receiver to have sub 4.3 speed? No.

And I'm fine with people sharing their OPINIONS. But when someone tries to pass their OPINION off as fact and then makes up crap about scouts and what coaches say I'm going to call them out. So why don't you get your facts straight internet tough guy then talk to me!

when i said mistake i meant he didn't mean possession. not mistake as in he meant it and it wasn't his smartest comment. i can almost guarantee you he didn't mean to call ginn a possession rcvr. and your arguement on possession rcvr isn't the brightest either. possession rcvr is based off someone that will go up and get the ball ala keyshawn johnson ala hines ward ala TO. ginn will never be a possession rcvr even if you could teach him routes. his frail body would break in half if anthony smith or porter or ray lewis or ed reed lays him out over the middle. all those guys i mentioned are possession rcvrs b/c not only do they run routes but they will fight with the biggest mofo's out there and come down with the ball most of the time and take the biggest hits and get up a half second later skipping and smiling (hines). don't try and jump on me now just b/c i called you out on your immatureness. like i said in my post before, grow up. leave **** alone.

terribletowel39
03-07-2007, 03:54 PM
i don't know what to think about this draft. if we stay at 15 i don't think we will pick up spencer which is why he wasn't there, he isn't worth the 15 pick and professional mocks don't ever have trades in place. but if we do stay at 15, i could see the moss pick. i respect mayock and he has him as his 2nd DE over anderson. and i even think he had spencer over anderson. not sure on that one though. on the other front runners. i wouldn't like the pick of brown or the two corners. don't believe we need any new corners in this draft and def not in the 1st. just my thoughts though don't go crazy. ;)

mikehop05
03-07-2007, 03:56 PM
i don't know what to think about this draft. if we stay at 15 i don't think we will pick up spencer which is why he wasn't there, he isn't worth the 15 pick and professional mocks don't ever have trades in place. but if we do stay at 15, i could see the moss pick. i respect mayock and he has him as his 2nd DE over anderson. and i even think he had spencer over anderson. not sure on that one though. on the other front runners. i wouldn't like the pick of brown or the two corners. don't believe we need any new corners in this draft and def not in the 1st. just my thoughts though don't go crazy. ;)

oh no i totoally agree

i dont think we need a corner in the first 4 rounds if at all this year

im not a huge fan of brown to us either, i like him enough i just think defensive front 7 is the way to go, specifically olb pass rusher

terribletowel39
03-07-2007, 03:58 PM
oh no i totoally agree

i dont think we need a corner in the first 4 rounds if at all this year

im not a huge fan of brown to us either, i like him enough i just think defensive front 7 is the way to go, specifically olb pass rusher

well i wasn't exactly talking in reference to you when i said don't go crazy. haha but yea. what is your opinion on harrison being able to hold down the fort??

mikehop05
03-07-2007, 04:00 PM
well i wasn't exactly talking in reference to you when i said don't go crazy. haha but yea. what is your opinion on harrison being able to hold down the fort??

i loved him on ST, he was a monsterous wedge breaker, and he seemed to be everywhere...

when haggans went down last year with an injury he didnt do much in the games though, however, it was said he had some small injuries too

if he can stay healthy and play with the same intensity i saw on ST's, then i would be comfortable with him playing OLB for us for the next year or two

terribletowel39
03-07-2007, 04:02 PM
i loved him on ST, he was a monsterous wedge breaker, and he seemed to be everywhere...

when haggans went down last year with an injury he didnt do much in the games though, however, it was said he had some small injuries too

if he can stay healthy and play with the same intensity i saw on ST's, then i would be comfortable with him playing OLB for us for the next year or two

was it you or Death that posted those 3 youtube.com clippings of harrison?? and if it was you, do you mind posting them again, i don't remember where they were posted and i wanted to show one of my steeler fan buddies here at work.

mikehop05
03-07-2007, 04:08 PM
was it you or Death that posted those 3 youtube.com clippings of harrison?? and if it was you, do you mind posting them again, i don't remember where they were posted and i wanted to show one of my steeler fan buddies here at work.

i didnt post it but i did find something entertaining...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Am7QJ0Zoto

heres what you are looking for i think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3ngdgJ_Jvw&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGAXPu0v8x4&mode=related&search=

terribletowel39
03-07-2007, 04:16 PM
i didnt post it but i did find something entertaining...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Am7QJ0Zoto

heres what you are looking for i think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3ngdgJ_Jvw&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGAXPu0v8x4&mode=related&search=

dude is the first one him slamming the browns fan?? i hope so. i've seen that and it is absolutely the best thing i have ever watched. and thanks for the other ones.

mikehop05
03-07-2007, 04:26 PM
dude is the first one him slamming the browns fan?? i hope so. i've seen that and it is absolutely the best thing i have ever watched. and thanks for the other ones.

yeah hahah its a classic

TheGunShow
03-07-2007, 05:13 PM
when i said mistake i meant he didn't mean possession. not mistake as in he meant it and it wasn't his smartest comment. i can almost guarantee you he didn't mean to call ginn a possession rcvr. and your arguement on possession rcvr isn't the brightest either. possession rcvr is based off someone that will go up and get the ball ala keyshawn johnson ala hines ward ala TO. ginn will never be a possession rcvr even if you could teach him routes. his frail body would break in half if anthony smith or porter or ray lewis or ed reed lays him out over the middle. all those guys i mentioned are possession rcvrs b/c not only do they run routes but they will fight with the biggest mofo's out there and come down with the ball most of the time and take the biggest hits and get up a half second later skipping and smiling (hines). don't try and jump on me now just b/c i called you out on your immatureness. like i said in my post before, grow up. leave **** alone.

Yeah, my argument of possession receiver isn't the brightest. Like calling TO a possession receiver is. But you argument is he's not willing to go over the middle? That would be wrong. His role in the Ohio St. offense was to be the vertical guy but that doesn't mean he didn't go over the middle. Or the argument that he would be broken in half by doing so is just nescient. Santonio Holmes who made his money going over the middle in College and has done a nice job so far for the Steelers is 5-10 5/8 178 pounds. Ted Ginn, Jr. is 5-11 1/5 178lbs. Marvin Harrison goes over the middle and he's one of the smallest WR's in the NFL. And returning punts and kicks is just as dangerous as going over the middle You are running full speed one way they are running full speed the other. So you usually don't have frail players returning punts.

And me being immature? Like trying to pawn off you have some sort of insider information on LaMarr Woodley and know he won't be anything more than a 4th round pick. Because he has access to information the rest of us don't.

And mature like calling names. "theweemanshow". ; )

Now I'll agree Ginn is far from a polished receiver. And needs to be coached on route running. But if he's the BPA and there isn't a player of position of need out there I would be all for drafting him. You can't teach speed and he would immediately become a dangerous return man and stretch the field for possession receiver Hines Ward.

Can you imagine putting Ginn in on three receiver set moving Hines to the slot and have Miller and Hines go over the middle while Holmes runs a 15 slant and Ginn runs a go route up the sideline? If the safety goes over top for Ginn the other can either cover Holmes and watch either Miller or Ward get a nice ten plus yard gain or if he goes up the middle to stop Miller and Ward, Holmes would ge behind the coverage and would be singled up on a CB. If the safety doesn't cover Ginn have Big Ben air it out and have Ginn streak down the field. That would be a match-up nightmare for opposing defensive coordinators.

mikehop05
03-07-2007, 05:19 PM
Yeah, my argument of possession receiver isn't the brightest. Like calling TO a possession receiver is. But you argument is he's not willing to go over the middle? That would be wrong. His role in the Ohio St. offense was to be the vertical guy but that doesn't mean he didn't go over the middle. Or the argument that he would be broken in half by doing so is just nescient. Santonio Holmes who made his money going over the middle in College and has done a nice job so far for the Steelers is 5-10 5/8 178 pounds. Ted Ginn, Jr. is 5-11 1/5 178lbs. Marvin Harrison goes over the middle and he's one of the smallest WR's in the NFL. And returning punts and kicks is just as dangerous as going over the middle You are running full speed one way they are running full speed the other. So you usually don't have frail players returning punts.

And me being immature? Like trying to pawn off you have some sort of insider information on LaMarr Woodley and know he won't be anything more than a 4th round pick. Because he has access to information the rest of us don't.

And mature like calling names. "theweemanshow". ; )

Now I'll agree Ginn is far from a polished receiver. And needs to be coached on route running. But if he's the BPA and there isn't a player of position of need out there I would be all for drafting him. You can't teach speed and he would immediately become a dangerous return man and stretch the field for possession receiver Hines Ward.

Can you imagine putting Ginn in on three receiver set moving Hines to the slot and have Miller and Hines go over the middle while Holmes runs a 15 slant and Ginn runs a go route up the sideline? If the safety goes over top for Ginn the other can either cover Holmes and watch either Miller or Ward get a nice ten plus yard gain or if he goes up the middle to stop Miller and Ward, Holmes would ge behind the coverage and would be singled up on a CB. If the safety doesn't cover Ginn have Big Ben air it out and have Ginn streak down the field. That would be a match-up nightmare for opposing defensive coordinators.


marvis harrison hardly ever goes over the middle, he works the sideline like a hooker works the corner and thats why he is still healthy at his age

i am oppose to drafting ginn... we just dont need that type of reciever, especially not in the first round

and yeah your play that you thought up is great in theory, but then again every play works on paper

terribletowel39
03-07-2007, 05:25 PM
don't compare ginn to harrison please. harrison is so good at what he does that he hardly had anyone near him to take a big hit. and with peyton manning throwing him the ball that lowers the odds of him taking a big hit by 50%. and harrison has some of the best hands in the milky way, and well Ginn doesn't.

i never said i wasn't immature. i am a dude, give me a break, we are all immature at times. i was calling you immature. and plus the weemanshow was pretty funny.

and why can't holmes be the go route, he isn't as fast but he is fast enough (see last play of our season) and we also have reid, who no has not proved himself but i think could be a respectable KR/PR in this league,from what i saw at florida st. and there is no way Ginn is BPA at 15 anyway. there are like 3 WR alone i would want over him. can we just agree to disagree and stop bashing ppls opinions so harshly??

mikehop05
03-07-2007, 05:26 PM
can i get some love for my harrison works the sideline like a hooker works the corner analogy???

terribletowel39
03-07-2007, 05:29 PM
can i get some love for my harrison works the sideline like a hooker works the corner analogy???

yea i admit i giggled when i read that. good analogy. rep points for you..........................tomorrow rep points tomorrow.

mikehop05
03-07-2007, 05:31 PM
i just looked up the 40 times of ginn and holmes...

ginn = 4.35, holmes = 4.35/4.38

terribletowel39
03-07-2007, 05:35 PM
i just looked up the 40 times of ginn and holmes...

ginn = 4.35, holmes = 4.35/4.38

does anyone know when OSU's pro day is?? b/c that will tell has fast this guy is finally. have some NFL ppl tell us. cuz while 4.35 is supah fast. i believe he will be prolly a little lower than that and possible in the .2's OSU has an incredibly fast track though from what i hear. so if that is true and he does actually run a 4.2 something how cool would it been to see someone put up a 4.1 has that ever been done?? what was green's 40 time back in the day?? or deion's??

mikehop05
03-07-2007, 05:40 PM
yeah i thought greene had the fastest 40..

heres what good ol wikipedia has to say (note ginn's time)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40_yard_dash

mikehop05
03-07-2007, 05:42 PM
also ohio st. is march 10th

terribletowel39
03-07-2007, 05:47 PM
yeah i thought greene had the fastest 40..

heres what good ol wikipedia has to say (note ginn's time)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/40_yard_dash

wow those are some sick times. especially that track star.

mikehop05
03-07-2007, 05:48 PM
yeah but i mean... take it for what its worth comming from wikipedia, and the sources wiki used

TheGunShow
03-07-2007, 06:00 PM
marvis harrison hardly ever goes over the middle, he works the sideline like a hooker works the corner and thats why he is still healthy at his age


OH, REALLY!

Marvin Harrison

95 receptions for 1,366 yards
11 receptions over the middle for 154 yards.

11.6% of his receptions over the middle
11.3% of his yards over the middle

Keyshawn Johnson

70 receptions for 815 yards
6 receptions over the middle for 77 yards

8.6% of his receptions over the middle
9.4% of his yards over the middle

http://www.funny-games.biz/pictures/owned/Owned1.jpg

TheGunShow
03-07-2007, 06:08 PM
i just looked up the 40 times of ginn and holmes...

ginn = 4.35, holmes = 4.35/4.38

Most other times close to 4.0 are untrustworthy due to the use of hand timing, but it is often claimed that players including Sanders (4.17)[3], Ted Ginn Jr. (4.06)[4], Ryan Dotson (4.24) DeAngelo Hall (4.15)[5][6], Michael Vick (4.25)[7], Bo Jackson (4.14)[8], Don Beebe (4.21)[1], Michael Bennett (4.13)[9], Randy Moss (4.25)[10], Darrell Green (4.15[11], 4.2[12]), Laveranues Coles (4.2)[13], and Alexander Wright (4.09)[14] have approached that mark.

4.06 unofficial.

mikehop05
03-07-2007, 06:14 PM
OH, REALLY!

Marvin Harrison

95 receptions for 1,366 yards
11 receptions over the middle for 154 yards.

11.6% of his receptions over the middle
11.3% of his yards over the middle

Keyshawn Johnson

70 receptions for 815 yards
6 receptions over the middle for 77 yards

8.6% of his receptions over the middle
9.4% of his yards over the middle

http://www.funny-games.biz/pictures/owned/Owned1.jpg



???

i think you owned yourself,

i NEVER comapred him to keyshawn,

and 11% is not a lot at all... where are u finding those stats

mikehop05
03-07-2007, 06:14 PM
4.06 unofficial.

yeah no **** thats why i said take it for what its worth

TheGunShow
03-07-2007, 06:17 PM
???

i think you owned yourself,

i NEVER comapred him to keyshawn,

and 11% is not a lot at all... where are u finding those stats

ESPN. Player card go to splits and they have every stat known to man.

TheGunShow
03-07-2007, 06:22 PM
don't compare ginn to harrison please. harrison is so good at what he does that he hardly had anyone near him to take a big hit. and with peyton manning throwing him the ball that lowers the odds of him taking a big hit by 50%. and harrison has some of the best hands in the milky way, and well Ginn doesn't.

i never said i wasn't immature. i am a dude, give me a break, we are all immature at times. i was calling you immature. and plus the weemanshow was pretty funny.

and why can't holmes be the go route, he isn't as fast but he is fast enough (see last play of our season) and we also have reid, who no has not proved himself but i think could be a respectable KR/PR in this league,from what i saw at florida st. and there is no way Ginn is BPA at 15 anyway. there are like 3 WR alone i would want over him. can we just agree to disagree and stop bashing ppls opinions so harshly??

By 50%... how exactly do you figure that? I call BS!

And that is why I said Holmes would run the 15 slant, the play he ran against the Bengals.

And no way Ginn is the BPA at #15? I've seen many mocks where Ginn would be a great pick for us. If Brown, Willis, Carriker, and Amobi Okoye are off the board I would be fine with taking Ginn. (Obvious guys like Thomas, AP, and CJ would be off the board too)

mikehop05
03-07-2007, 06:35 PM
By 50%... how exactly do you figure that? I call BS!

And that is why I said Holmes would run the 15 slant, the play he ran against the Bengals.

And no way Ginn is the BPA at #15? I've seen many mocks where Ginn would be a great pick for us. If Brown, Willis, Carriker, and Amobi Okoye are off the board I would be fine with taking Ginn. (Obvious guys like Thomas, AP, and CJ would be off the board too)

did you see his right side line????

39 receptions = 41%

exactly why i said he works the sideline like a hooker works the corner

TheGunShow
03-07-2007, 06:48 PM
did you see his right side line????

39 receptions = 41%

exactly why i said he works the sideline like a hooker works the corner

Oh, my god. I'm arguing with Corky from "Life Goes On". So you are telling me a receiver that lines up on the rights side has 41% of his catches on the... right side. Hey, did you notice Left Side Line? 2 Catches or 2.1% of his receptions.

Here's a good stat.

Terrell Owens:

85 receptions for 1,180 yards

4 receptions for 56 yards over the middle
4.7% of receptions over the middle
4.7% of yards over the middle

Bottom line. Size doesn't matter. If you are willing to go over the middle you go over the middle.

terribletowel39
03-07-2007, 07:11 PM
Oh, my god. I'm arguing with Corky from "Life Goes On". So you are telling me a receiver that lines up on the rights side has 41% of his catches on the... right side. Hey, did you notice Left Side Line? 2 Catches or 2.1% of his receptions.

Here's a good stat.

Terrell Owens:

85 receptions for 1,180 yards

4 receptions for 56 yards over the middle
4.7% of receptions over the middle
4.7% of yards over the middle

Bottom line. Size doesn't matter. If you are willing to go over the middle you go over the middle.

sorry it took me so long to respond i had to leave work.

bottom line. how the hell did this get to an argument about going over the middle?? we started talking about ginn and how he blew. and then we went to possession recvr's. and now are we going to go full circle and talk about everything football stands for next. i'm done with this. at the end of the day i hope i can fist pound (or slap, since that is in now) all of you posting on this steelers section for being a steeler fan.

mikehop05
03-07-2007, 07:42 PM
Oh, my god. I'm arguing with Corky from "Life Goes On". So you are telling me a receiver that lines up on the rights side has 41% of his catches on the... right side. Hey, did you notice Left Side Line? 2 Catches or 2.1% of his receptions.

Here's a good stat.

Terrell Owens:

85 receptions for 1,180 yards

4 receptions for 56 yards over the middle
4.7% of receptions over the middle
4.7% of yards over the middle

Bottom line. Size doesn't matter. If you are willing to go over the middle you go over the middle.


no you dumb **** i was pointing out the SIDELINE RECEPTIONS

WHICH I SAID HE DID... WORK THE SIDELINE
do both side lines if u want, its still 43% of his catches...

ON THE SIDELINE

READ WHAT I ******* SAY

Man_Of_Steel
03-07-2007, 09:44 PM
im not touchin this discussion with a ten foot pole.

Mr. Stiller
03-08-2007, 12:45 AM
Yeah, my argument of possession receiver isn't the brightest. Like calling TO a possession receiver is. But you argument is he's not willing to go over the middle? That would be wrong. His role in the Ohio St. offense was to be the vertical guy but that doesn't mean he didn't go over the middle. Or the argument that he would be broken in half by doing so is just nescient. Santonio Holmes who made his money going over the middle in College and has done a nice job so far for the Steelers is 5-10 5/8 178 pounds. Ted Ginn, Jr. is 5-11 1/5 178lbs. Marvin Harrison goes over the middle and he's one of the smallest WR's in the NFL. And returning punts and kicks is just as dangerous as going over the middle You are running full speed one way they are running full speed the other. So you usually don't have frail players returning punts.

And me being immature? Like trying to pawn off you have some sort of insider information on LaMarr Woodley and know he won't be anything more than a 4th round pick. Because he has access to information the rest of us don't.

And mature like calling names. "theweemanshow". ; )

Now I'll agree Ginn is far from a polished receiver. And needs to be coached on route running. But if he's the BPA and there isn't a player of position of need out there I would be all for drafting him. You can't teach speed and he would immediately become a dangerous return man and stretch the field for possession receiver Hines Ward.

Can you imagine putting Ginn in on three receiver set moving Hines to the slot and have Miller and Hines go over the middle while Holmes runs a 15 slant and Ginn runs a go route up the sideline? If the safety goes over top for Ginn the other can either cover Holmes and watch either Miller or Ward get a nice ten plus yard gain or if he goes up the middle to stop Miller and Ward, Holmes would ge behind the coverage and would be singled up on a CB. If the safety doesn't cover Ginn have Big Ben air it out and have Ginn streak down the field. That would be a match-up nightmare for opposing defensive coordinators.

Now if Ginn could only catch. Reliably

TheGunShow
03-08-2007, 02:39 PM
no you dumb **** i was pointing out the SIDELINE RECEPTIONS

WHICH I SAID HE DID... WORK THE SIDELINE
do both side lines if u want, its still 43% of his catches...

ON THE SIDELINE

READ WHAT I ******* SAY

And Reggie Wayne has 44.2% of his receptions on the LEFT sideline. But the fact remains Marvin Harrison goes over the middle. Just because they are receivers and line up on the outside and the get the primarily of their receptions doesn't mean they don't go over the middle. Dallas Clark has 33% of his receptions over the middle. He also lines up in the middle.

You are arguing that I disagreed with you that Harrison gets the majority of his receptions on the right side. I never disagreed with that fact. I disagreed that he doesn't go over the middle. Which he does, more often than T.O. or Keyshawn Johnson.

sorry it took me so long to respond i had to leave work.

bottom line. how the hell did this get to an argument about going over the middle?? we started talking about ginn and how he blew. and then we went to possession recvr's. and now are we going to go full circle and talk about everything football stands for next. i'm done with this. at the end of the day i hope i can fist pound (or slap, since that is in now) all of you posting on this steelers section for being a steeler fan.

his frail body would break in half if anthony smith or porter or ray lewis or ed reed lays him out over the middle.

That's how we got going on going over the middle. YOU. And if I do say so myself I made you look silly. Or at least sillier than normal.

terribletowel39
03-08-2007, 02:48 PM
And Reggie Wayne has 44.2% of his receptions on the LEFT sideline. But the fact remains Marvin Harrison goes over the middle. Just because they are receivers and line up on the outside and the get the primarily of their receptions doesn't mean they don't go over the middle. Dallas Clark has 33% of his receptions over the middle. He also lines up in the middle.

You are arguing that I disagreed with you that Harrison gets the majority of his receptions on the right side. I never disagreed with that fact. I disagreed that he doesn't go over the middle. Which he does, more often than T.O. or Keyshawn Johnson.





That's how we got going on going over the middle. YOU. And if I do say so myself I made you look silly. Or at least sillier than normal.


i'm missing willie parker's number on my 2nd quote. come on now edit that so i atleast am consistent. and believe me friend you didn't make me look any more silly than you made yourself look.

skarocksoi
03-08-2007, 05:18 PM
Did you really change his name in the quotes to "InternetToughGuy"? Are you 12? I'm sure you just pwnt him lolzorz!!!1! We aren't here trying to one up each other by saying stupid crap. We're discussing Steelers football. There is no need to say all of this garbage because people don't agree with you.

Mikehop brought up a valid counterpoint to your arguement that Harrison goes over the middle by pointing out that 43% of his catches are along the sideline as opposed to 11% over the middle. 43 is greater than 11, so that is a valid arguement. So you responded by calling him stupid. Way to ****ing go. You sure showed him. If your discussion skills equated to more than "OMFG ur so stupid!" when someone has a difference in opinion from you, I might actually consider a good arguement that you might make at some point. Congradulations though, because I guess you just beat us at the internet.

mikehop05
03-08-2007, 05:35 PM
oh well im done with that kid, lets just discuss the steelers and ignore this type of crap

on another note...

who does everyone want assuming we cant trade down?

i for one kind of hope carriker falls to us though i doubt he will

skarocksoi
03-08-2007, 05:38 PM
I think San Fran could take Carriker before us cause they need serious dline help, but if he fell I think I would take him. We could still reach for Spencer, but it might be better to take a BPA and try to trade up into the first to get him later on. It's funny how when Scott posted that mock awhile ago with us taking carriker I hated it, but now I'm ok with it. The senior bowl helped him out a lot.

mikehop05
03-08-2007, 05:42 PM
I think San Fran could take Carriker before us cause they need serious dline help, but if he fell I think I would take him. We could still reach for Spencer, but it might be better to take a BPA and try to trade up into the first to get him later on. It's funny how when Scott posted that mock awhile ago with us taking carriker I hated it, but now I'm ok with it. The senior bowl helped him out a lot.

yeah definetly

then the combine... then his pro day

terribletowel39
03-08-2007, 05:44 PM
yeah definetly

then the combine... then his pro day

if we stay put i say we pick up jarvis moss or BPA which i think could possibly be bowe at WR which would put holmes in slot i think he seems like a better slot guy than bowe b/c he would be matched up with LB and safety most of the time. although i am hoping we trade down with someone that we get more value for moss or then spencer.

brat316
03-08-2007, 06:45 PM
Good Point TT yeah if we pick BPA then its probably Bowe, not Moss, if we trade down then its Moss,

Getting more picks will add depth and also allow us to move up with those extra picks,

I personally would like to Bowie

Mr. Stiller
03-08-2007, 07:20 PM
This might blow your mind.


We're looking at Carriker.. to move Keisel to OLB.

Keisel is fast enough. He likes to play around 265-275. We've already seen he can pass rush.. 5.5 sacks in his first full season and thats at a light weight 34DE.

If he does that we'll have a huge powerful and speedy 3-4 OLB, He's 6'5 270ish lbs. And he's already 10x better against the run than Shawne Merriman. He's s solid Passrusher.


With that I don't think Carriker will slide past San Francisco. So I think you'll see that I Addressed that idea in my mock.

It's in my new mock.. But the 2nd best 3-4 DE... Justin Harrell.. Any questions you'll see the new mock, ask and I'll be glad to support them.

terribletowel39
03-08-2007, 07:41 PM
This might blow your mind.


We're looking at Carriker.. to move Keisel to OLB.

Keisel is fast enough. He likes to play around 265-275. We've already seen he can pass rush.. 5.5 sacks in his first full season and thats at a light weight 34DE.

If he does that we'll have a huge powerful and speedy 3-4 OLB, He's 6'5 270ish lbs. And he's already 10x better against the run than Shawne Merriman. He's s solid Passrusher.


With that I don't think Carriker will slide past San Francisco. So I think you'll see that I Addressed that idea in my mock.

It's in my new mock.. But the 2nd best 3-4 DE... Justin Harrell.. Any questions you'll see the new mock, ask and I'll be glad to support them.

no. why?? i was so pumped to see harrison in the starting role. why wouldn't they give him a chance?? wtf??!!!!!!!!!

Mr. Stiller
03-08-2007, 08:06 PM
no. why?? i was so pumped to see harrison in the starting role. why wouldn't they give him a chance?? wtf??!!!!!!!!!

He doesn't have have the size. I think he's more a 4-3 Will, although a solid one at that. I don't think they're confident in his ability to be a pass rusher. But he'll see considerable time.

mikehop05
03-08-2007, 09:46 PM
He doesn't have have the size. I think he's more a 4-3 Will, although a solid one at that. I don't think they're confident in his ability to be a pass rusher. But he'll see considerable time.

it'll be settled in camp, the best player will get to play this year

unlike years prior

Smooth Criminal
03-08-2007, 09:58 PM
This might blow your mind.


We're looking at Carriker.. to move Keisel to OLB.

Keisel is fast enough. He likes to play around 265-275. We've already seen he can pass rush.. 5.5 sacks in his first full season and thats at a light weight 34DE.

If he does that we'll have a huge powerful and speedy 3-4 OLB, He's 6'5 270ish lbs. And he's already 10x better against the run than Shawne Merriman. He's s solid Passrusher.


With that I don't think Carriker will slide past San Francisco. So I think you'll see that I Addressed that idea in my mock.

It's in my new mock.. But the 2nd best 3-4 DE... Justin Harrell.. Any questions you'll see the new mock, ask and I'll be glad to support them.

I actually really like that idea. I think Carriker is a great talent and is one of the few people worth the 15th pick at a position we need. Keisel at OLB is interesting. He has pretty good speed and when you get a 270lb guy moving hes hard to stop.

Plus 99 is the best number for a 3-4 OLB so its a great fit.

mikehop05
03-08-2007, 10:11 PM
didnt big levon kirkland wear 99

Man_Of_Steel
03-08-2007, 10:20 PM
i believe so

Mr. Stiller
03-09-2007, 12:08 AM
I actually really like that idea. I think Carriker is a great talent and is one of the few people worth the 15th pick at a position we need. Keisel at OLB is interesting. He has pretty good speed and when you get a 270lb guy moving hes hard to stop.

Plus 99 is the best number for a 3-4 OLB so its a great fit.

Exactly. Especially when he's hard to stop with his hand down on the line. He's beaten Ogden 1on1, which, porter has never...

Carriker has #'s that Smith only dreamed of during his combine. Imagine ....

Aaron Smith Casey Hampton and another Aaron Smith..

Then having Keisel come barreling after the QB.

we'd be damn near unstoppable. I think add a Jacob Ford or a Brian Smith in the later rounds. for depth. then Next year, theres a wealth of 3-4 OLB talent.

Lets draft like the Patriots. Get a BPA for a position that isnt' necesarily a huge need but it's the value. Like a CB or WR in round 1.

Then next year grab a Phil Merling, Brian Cushing, Tommy Blake. Blake would be a speed rusher and Keisel a pure beast.


People cheer for Merriman because he's a sack artist.. Keisel is 10x better against the run than Merriman, and he's probably better in coverage. And he doesn't take Steroids.. He could end up putting up Merriman #'s.

Mr. Stiller
03-09-2007, 12:09 AM
didnt big levon kirkland wear 99


Yep..

Greene Was 93 I believe, Kirkland 99, Lloyd 95..

skarocksoi
03-09-2007, 12:13 AM
Thats pretty interesting. If Keisel can drop back in coverage that would be a pretty good move. Save us the early draft pick and get someone later on who can eventually develop into that role.

skarocksoi
03-09-2007, 12:22 AM
How does everyone feel about picking up Brian Robison of Texas in the second round? He had a really good combine and is being talked about as an OLB in a 3-4 scheme. Might be a second round steal for us, and could possibly play DE in a 4-3 too.

terribletowel39
03-09-2007, 12:37 AM
love him. both texas DEs are great prospects for the NFL. if given the chance i don't think robinson or crowder fail in the NFL. robinson in the 2nd would be a steal yes. crowder in the 2nd i believe would be a steal. i think i like robinson more just b/c in limited time he almost had as good of stats as crowder and he is more versatile like you siad. he could play DE as well.

brat316
03-09-2007, 12:46 AM
Crowder seems like that well rounded player, Robinson is good also either one might fall to the third since the DE/OLB spots are pretty deep

terribletowel39
03-09-2007, 12:53 AM
Crowder seems like that well rounded player, Robinson is good also either one might fall to the third since the DE/OLB spots are pretty deep

that is very true. one or both could fall to the 3rd and that would be a real steal, but would it be worth the risk if we really want them. i wish that the steelers organization would post on a web site or something what there board looks like. that would be awesome, instead of all the speculating.

brat316
03-09-2007, 12:59 AM
nah if they do taht then there is the fear of people taking ur players and forcing a trade with u

do wat the eagles do send smoke screens of players you want or think u want and then pick a player no is thinking of like last year Brodlek Bunkley

terribletowel39
03-09-2007, 01:02 AM
well yea i mean i know no one would do that but as a fan i would find that awesome.

mikehop05
03-09-2007, 01:24 AM
well yea i mean i know no one would do that but as a fan i would find that awesome.

tis nice to dream

luckily for you guys, you have me...

which is pretty much the next best thing

brat316
03-09-2007, 01:51 AM
so are we still thinking of picking moss at 15, i like him he looks like the javon Kearse Type without the 4.4 Kearse Speed though

TheGunShow
03-09-2007, 12:32 PM
Did you really change his name in the quotes to "InternetToughGuy"? Are you 12? I'm sure you just pwnt him lolzorz!!!1! We aren't here trying to one up each other by saying stupid crap. We're discussing Steelers football. There is no need to say all of this garbage because people don't agree with you.

Anyone that acts tough on the internet is pathetic and I will make fun of them at my own leisure. Anyone that says they will "fist pound" someone in an argument over the internet is a moron. And anyone that agrees with that is also a moron.

Mikehop brought up a valid counterpoint to your arguement that Harrison goes over the middle by pointing out that 43% of his catches are along the sideline as opposed to 11% over the middle. 43 is greater than 11, so that is a valid arguement. So you responded by calling him stupid. Way to ****ing go. You sure showed him. If your discussion skills equated to more than "OMFG ur so stupid!" when someone has a difference in opinion from you, I might actually consider a good arguement that you might make at some point. Congradulations though, because I guess you just beat us at the internet.

No it is not a valid point. I never argued that Harrison doesn't catch passes on the sideline. Since he is a receiver that kinda is his job. He said Harrison didn't go over the middle. Which he does. 11% is above average for a receiver. All receivers catch the majority of their passes on the sides. The argument was how often does Harrison go over the middle. Which I proved he does more than T.O. by two and a half times and a third more often than Keyshawn.

It's like comparing two RB's. One is a bruiser and one is a speed guy. Both will get the majority of their carries between the tackles. But the speedy RB will likely have more runs outside the tackles than the bruiser. That's the comparison. What percentage does the one got off tackle compared to the other.

And yes a stupid response will likely get you called stupid. Got it stupid?

TheGunShow
03-09-2007, 12:34 PM
so are we still thinking of picking moss at 15, i like him he looks like the javon Kearse Type without the 4.4 Kearse Speed though

And without Kearse's College Production.

skarocksoi
03-09-2007, 01:15 PM
Anyone that acts tough on the internet is pathetic and I will make fun of them at my own leisure. Anyone that says they will "fist pound" someone in an argument over the internet is a moron. And anyone that agrees with that is also a moron.


No it is not a valid point. I never argued that Harrison doesn't catch passes on the sideline. Since he is a receiver that kinda is his job. He said Harrison didn't go over the middle. Which he does. 11% is above average for a receiver. All receivers catch the majority of their passes on the sides. The argument was how often does Harrison go over the middle. Which I proved he does more than T.O. by two and a half times and a third more often than Keyshawn.

It's like comparing two RB's. One is a bruiser and one is a speed guy. Both will get the majority of their carries between the tackles. But the speedy RB will likely have more runs outside the tackles than the bruiser. That's the comparison. What percentage does the one got off tackle compared to the other.

And yes a stupid response will likely get you called stupid. Got it stupid?

When he said fist pound I believe he was referring to the fist pound, where two people hit their fists together in a sign of friendship, like a high five. He wasn't talking about beating you up. We leave those sorts of childish remarks for you. And what hypocracy from you as you act high and mighty because you don't like someones arguement and therefor call them stupid. I said it before, these forums aren't to try and degrade each other by throwing around stupid names. It's for real discussion. Let's get back to that, please.

terribletowel39
03-09-2007, 01:34 PM
Anyone that acts tough on the internet is pathetic and I will make fun of them at my own leisure. Anyone that says they will "fist pound" someone in an argument over the internet is a moron. And anyone that agrees with that is also a moron.

yea dude calm down i wasn't talking about beating you up. i was talking about fist pounding, like you know when two guys fist pound each other. i thought everyone would catch on to that when i put in parenthesis (or slap each other, since that seems in) you know from the super bowl commercial. if you didn't see it, you need to see it. and i wasn't acting like a tough guy, believe me i am right there with ya when it comes to internet tough guys, it accomplishes nothing. i was just letting you know that you were out of line and wrong from jumping on someones opinion that harshly, even if in your mind he was trying to jam it down your throat as a fact.

brat316
03-09-2007, 01:38 PM
two players i like in the 4th round are Jacoby Jones someone tall and possesion reciver, he has room to still grow bigger and he could go over the middle and be our threat in the Red Zone


Also how about Tim Shaw, not sure how he would fit in our system but looks like an excellent pick

skarocksoi
03-09-2007, 01:40 PM
Anyways, I dont remember which thread I brought this up on, but what is everyone's opinion on Brian Robison from Texas. I remember him really impressing at the combine and he could be a 3rd round steal to play OLB in a 3-4. Not sure of his numbers from college, but physically I think he's got what it takes.

Mr. Stiller
03-09-2007, 02:04 PM
two players i like in the 4th round are Jacoby Jones someone tall and possesion reciver, he has room to still grow bigger and he could go over the middle and be our threat in the Red Zone


Also how about Tim Shaw, not sure how he would fit in our system but looks like an excellent pick

I'll let you in on a secret.

the last 10 superbowls..

The winner didn't have a WR over 6'3.

Mr. Stiller
03-09-2007, 02:05 PM
Anyways, I dont remember which thread I brought this up on, but what is everyone's opinion on Brian Robison from Texas. I remember him really impressing at the combine and he could be a 3rd round steal to play OLB in a 3-4. Not sure of his numbers from college, but physically I think he's got what it takes.

Stats alone.. He had 5 sacks..

2 against OK state, 2 against OSU, and 1 against Oklahoma.

And 19 tackles.. he's got the size, but I don't think he produced.

brat316
03-09-2007, 02:30 PM
I'll let you in on a secret.

the last 10 superbowls..

The winner didn't have a WR over 6'3.

ha ha ur wrong who played for Tamba Bay taht was 6-4 Keyshawn J.

In those 10 i think the tallest WR was 6-0 (a whole bunch of them, only the ones who won) not including the Colts 6-4 Wr who never played a game all season wait i think Antonio Freeman was 6-1 when they won ohh and Ed McCaffrey 6-5

But my guys under 6'3 hes only 6'2 lol so that means we will win a superbowl

Mr. Stiller
03-09-2007, 02:38 PM
ha ha ur wrong who played for Tamba Bay taht was 6-4 Keyshawn J.

In those 10 i think the tallest WR was 6-0 (a whole bunch of them, only the ones who won) not including the Colts 6-4 Wr who never played a game all season wait i think Antonio Freeman was 6-1 when they won ohh and Ed McCaffrey 6-5

But my guys under 6'3 hes only 6'2 lol so that means we will win a superbowl

**** I forgot about Johnson.

skarocksoi
03-09-2007, 08:24 PM
Stats alone.. He had 5 sacks..

2 against OK state, 2 against OSU, and 1 against Oklahoma.

And 19 tackles.. he's got the size, but I don't think he produced.

Yeah, I think thats why no one really considered him until before the combine. If he lasts until the 3rd though, I think you could pick him up based on sheer potential. Also, was he a starter or was he rotated in? Im not familiar with Texas that much, so I have no idea about what they did with him.

brat316
03-09-2007, 08:49 PM
i like the houston pick if we move down, he did shut down jarret, bowe, mecheam, also he is the fastest out there had an amazing combine I think he could be our number 1 in a few years

terribletowel39
03-09-2007, 11:27 PM
Yeah, I think thats why no one really considered him until before the combine. If he lasts until the 3rd though, I think you could pick him up based on sheer potential. Also, was he a starter or was he rotated in? Im not familiar with Texas that much, so I have no idea about what they did with him.

rotated in. yall are talking about robinson right?? now crowder. if so rotated in. crowder was starter.

skarocksoi
03-11-2007, 01:24 PM
How sweet would it be to have Gaines Adams fall to us? He'd be beastly at OLB in a 3-4 and could easily take over porters spot as pass rusher. Plus he could drop down and play DE without any trouble. Oh my, just imagine the possibilities.

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 01:34 PM
How sweet would it be to have Gaines Adams fall to us? He'd be beastly at OLB in a 3-4 and could easily take over porters spot as pass rusher. Plus he could drop down and play DE without any trouble. Oh my, just imagine the possibilities.

if he falls past minnesota he hasa good shot...

what does everyone think of us trading up to get him???

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 01:49 PM
Not gonna happen, not real high on the idea anyway

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 01:50 PM
Not gonna happen, not real high on the idea anyway

thank you for your ever so insightful comment once again

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 02:07 PM
I counted four teams after Minni that would take him before us and thats not including trade ups. If we do trade up wed likley have to give away a second or third, not crazy with that considering DE is the deepest position in the draft. If we dont get Adams were not missing much. We have other top choices to chose from. Also Adams is a natrual pass rusher, He never really had to play the run, if you saw him he was always used as a hybird pass rusher, always coming off the edge. The Steelers need DE that can play the run effectivley and Adams cannot do that yet, he has the potential, but right now he cant. Guys like Carriker and Spencer are much more Steel town suited DE. If we were Carolina, Atlanta, Detriot, Arizona then yes Adams would be great. I just feel that even with the choice between the two Carriker would get the nod.

Now dont get me wrong, if Adams fell to us i wouldnt think twice about picking him. However hes not as clear cut of a #1 DE you guys are making him out to be and id rather keep my picks and draft a DE who is right up there with him.

Bottom Line- Dont trade up for him, if hes there take him.

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 02:26 PM
Also just a tidbit but i would rather have Amobi Okoye than Gaines Adams. Not only is this more likley but also with get a great player, with bgreat character and more potential than anyone in the draft.

terribletowel39
03-11-2007, 03:06 PM
i agree, if he is there get him, if not don't worry about it.

side note: GO SEE 300!!! you will not be disappointed. it is the greatest movie ever. it's got some of the greatest fight scenes you have ever seen and a great sex scene, ;) which don't deny is a plus. GO see it.

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 03:17 PM
yeah im not really a fan of trading up but i was just throwing it out there

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 03:21 PM
i agree, if he is there get him, if not don't worry about it.

side note: GO SEE 300!!! you will not be disappointed. it is the greatest movie ever. it's got some of the greatest fight scenes you have ever seen and a great sex scene, ;) which don't deny is a plus. GO see it.

yeah our school had a pre screening of it but it ended up snowing that day and our university closed, and i thought that meant there wouldnt be the screening anymore... but i was wrong andddd yeah im pissed

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 04:05 PM
Terrible Towel thank you for agreeing, sometimes i feel like people post in favor of the consensus when they themselves dont know much about the player, situation etc.

Props and rep to you. Also 300 is a sick movie.

Shane P. Hallam
03-11-2007, 04:11 PM
I don't think we need Okoye. We have Hampton and Smith locked up now. I'd rather grab a LB or DE (who plays LB in 3-4)

What about Posluzny? I know the peeps in the Burgh are high on him in both 3-4 and 4-3, but I'm not feeling it.

Man_Of_Steel
03-11-2007, 05:05 PM
I don't think we need Okoye. We have Hampton and Smith locked up now. I'd rather grab a LB or DE (who plays LB in 3-4)

What about Posluzny? I know the peeps in the Burgh are high on him in both 3-4 and 4-3, but I'm not feeling it.

Although DT isnt that big a need, Okoyes talent and upside is undeniable and theres a zero percent chance that the Steelers, who pride themeselves on stopping the run pass on him.

Poz I love, I love the fact that he is a true football player who plays with gritt, passion and has great instincts. He understands the game better than most this draft year and gives 100% on every play. I think a OLB in the first and then DE in the second is the best option. DE is deep where as there are really only two top OLB (Poz and Timmons).

mikehop05
03-11-2007, 05:30 PM
Although DT isnt that big a need, Okoyes talent and upside is undeniable and theres a zero percent chance that the Steelers, who pride themeselves on stopping the run pass on him.

Poz I love, I love the fact that he is a true football player who plays with gritt, passion and has great instincts. He understands the game better than most this draft year and gives 100% on every play. I think a OLB in the first and then DE in the second is the best option. DE is deep where as there are really only two top OLB (Poz and Timmons).

yeah i like puz also, you know what you are getting with him... he will give it his all... all the time

in the 3 - 4 though i think he fares better as a ILB, but i think he will be the best in a 4 - 3 WLB, being able to use his instincts and really just be a player

brat316
03-11-2007, 06:03 PM
Okoye i actually see falling to us, only team that might take him is Ram, I think Okoye is a player that can play in our Hybrid scheme, Also a lot of upside to him, he is 20 yrs old so he gets that first 5 year deal hes 25 then gets like 6 yr deal when 31 and might play another 4 yrs after that

So many LBs, in this draft Willis, Puz, Timmons, who to choose

Mr. Stiller
03-11-2007, 06:28 PM
I don't think we need Okoye. We have Hampton and Smith locked up now. I'd rather grab a LB or DE (who plays LB in 3-4)

What about Posluzny? I know the peeps in the Burgh are high on him in both 3-4 and 4-3, but I'm not feeling it.

I can't see Okoye getting much playtime in a 3-4.

I don't think he's the type to be a 3-4 DE. and I don't think we're going to move keisel to OLB to go with a 4-3 Front.

I Saw Okoye a lot, and frankly I was never impressed. Sure he's 19, doesn't make him a first round prospect because he could develop. He does a lot of stuff well, but he'll be overdrafted because he's 19.

Poz is a hardworker and he's going to make some team happy, but I can't see it being pittsburgh. Then again, he could be a solid future MLB behind Farrior. But MLB isn't a first round pick. Atleast for us.

at DE... I'd like Branch, Carriker, Harrell, Alama-Francis, Alford, Brown, McBean, Soliai. Any of those guys can hold the point. Just imagine Keisel Running amok behind them.

Hines
03-13-2007, 06:19 PM
take this how u want

anderson?
houston?

6-6/284-pound Arkansas DE Jamaal Anderson ran a 4.75 and a 4.8 in the forty-yard dash at his college Pro Day on Tuesday.

Rising corner Chris Houston stood on his numbers. 100 pro personnel were on hand for this workout, including Rams coach Scott Linehan and Mike Tomlin of the Steelers. Anderson didn't work out at the Combine.
Source: nfl.com

mikehop05
03-13-2007, 07:20 PM
take this how u want

anderson?
houston?

6-6/284-pound Arkansas DE Jamaal Anderson ran a 4.75 and a 4.8 in the forty-yard dash at his college Pro Day on Tuesday.

Rising corner Chris Houston stood on his numbers. 100 pro personnel were on hand for this workout, including Rams coach Scott Linehan and Mike Tomlin of the Steelers. Anderson didn't work out at the Combine.
Source: nfl.com

i like jamaal and it seems as though he can fall to us at 15, he would provide us with the ability to play the 3 - 4 or 4 - 3 almost seemlessly, playing end opposite smith in the 3 - 4, and most likely opposite kiesel in the 4 - 3 (smith and hampton in the inside)

that would give us one of the more dominating defensive lines in the game, and can provide a lot of looks / different zone blitz packages for lebeau to work with, especially having 4 - 5 capable linebackers in haggans, foote, farrior, harrison, and possibly kiesel

its looking as though some teams are more up on carricker, maybe thats just my perception, but i really think(maybe moreso hope) one of these two guys will fall to us at 15

the depth and options they bring will be very beneficial

Mr. Stiller
03-13-2007, 07:47 PM
i like jamaal and it seems as though he can fall to us at 15, he would provide us with the ability to play the 3 - 4 or 4 - 3 almost seemlessly, playing end opposite smith in the 3 - 4, and most likely opposite kiesel in the 4 - 3 (smith and hampton in the inside)

that would give us one of the more dominating defensive lines in the game, and can provide a lot of looks / different zone blitz packages for lebeau to work with, especially having 4 - 5 capable linebackers in haggans, foote, farrior, harrison, and possibly kiesel

its looking as though some teams are more up on carricker, maybe thats just my perception, but i really think(maybe moreso hope) one of these two guys will fall to us at 15

the depth and options they bring will be very beneficial

Jamaal wouldn't be a DE in my opinion. I think it'd be a waste. I'd like to see him lose 5-10 lbs and standup. He's faster than Haggans (4.82 40') and we can draft Alford, sign a 3-4 DE and we have a monster pass rush.

mikehop05
03-13-2007, 07:53 PM
Jamaal wouldn't be a DE in my opinion. I think it'd be a waste. I'd like to see him lose 5-10 lbs and standup. He's faster than Haggans (4.82 40') and we can draft Alford, sign a 3-4 DE and we have a monster pass rush.

well even still, we have that depth and those options, run him at 3 - 4 OLB anda 4 - 3 end

brat316
03-13-2007, 08:38 PM
would lance briggs work for us in our system, if he does any chance of us getting him, i could see a trade for our 2nd for him or our first for him, there 1st and problaby a 4th or 3rd,

Man_Of_Steel
03-13-2007, 09:52 PM
would lance briggs work for us in our system, if he does any chance of us getting him, i could see a trade for our 2nd for him or our first for him, there 1st and problaby a 4th or 3rd,

I would hate it if we gave more than a second rounder for him. i wouldnt even give him that.

Mr. Stiller
03-13-2007, 10:04 PM
I would hate it if we gave more than a second rounder for him. i wouldnt even give him that.

Lance Briggs is overrated. He's a 3rd rounder that landed in a perfect situation in Chicago. He's threatening a holdout after being offered over 7.2+ Mill for one season? I don't want a cancer like him in the locker room.

and If you want a Cover 2 Will, why not sign June, He'd be cheaper, and doesn't have the ego of Briggs.

I just don't know where he'd fit.. ILB/OLB 3-4/4-3 ... Why pay him so much when he really wouldn't be an upgrade over Foote.


If thats the case I'd rather give less and get Keyaron Fox. The kid is going to be special if KC would stop burying him on the Depth Chart.

Man_Of_Steel
03-13-2007, 10:09 PM
Anyone see Briggs on NFL Network Total Access today. He was interviewed about his standpoint. Rod Woodson really came down on him.

mikehop05
03-13-2007, 10:20 PM
i wish i had nfl n here at college, damn cheap cable companies wont provide it and im too cheap to buy it