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eaglesfan_45
06-22-2008, 07:37 PM
DE:

Tyson Jackson, Louisiana State [6-5, 292]
Fili Moala, Southern California [6-5, 295]
Pannel Egboh, Stanford [6-6, 280]
DeMarcus Granger, Oklahoma [6-2, 315]*
Ricky Jean-Francois, LSU [6-3, 280]
Arthur Jones, Syracuse [6-4, 291]
Lawrence Wilson, Ohio State [6-4, 274]
Demonte Bolden, Tennessee [6-6, 290]
Alex Magee, Purdue [6-3, 295]
John Fletcher, Wyoming [6-6, 280]
Jeffrey Fitzgerald, Virginia [6-3, 279]
Derek Walker, Illinois (6'4" 272 lbs)


NT:

Terrence Taylor, Michigan [6-0, 319]
Vince Oghobaase, Duke [6-6, 310]*
B.J. Raji, Boston College [6-1, 325]
Al Woods, Louisiana State [6-4, 314]*
Jeff Owens, Georgia [6-1, 298]
Ron Brace, Boston College [6-3, 325]
Dorrell Scott, Clemson [6-4, 320]
Antonio Dixon, Miami [6-3, 328]
Nader Abdallah, Ohio State [6-5, 310]
Kellen Heard, Texas A&M [6'6" 345 lbs.]
Boo Robinson, Wake Forest [6'2" 326 lbs.]

OLB:

George Selve, South Florida [6-4, 242]*
Brian Orakpo, Texas [6-4, 255]
Brian Cushing, USC [6-4, 245]
Eric Moncur, Miami [6-3, 255]
Cody Brown, Connecticut [6'2" 244 lbs]
Everette Brown, Florida St. [6-4, 246]*
Willie Young, North Carolina St. [6-5, 243]*
Ian Campell, Kansas State [6-5, 245]
Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech [6-7, 256]
Ricky Sapp, Clemson [6-5, 240]*
Jamaal Westerman, Rutgers [6-3, 256]
Will Davis, Illinois [6-3, 252]
Clint Sintim, Virginia [6-3, 254]
Tim Jamison, Michigan [6-3, 266]
Antwain Robinson, Arkansas [6-3, 255]
Matt Shaughnessy, Wisconsin [6-6, 248]
Jermaine Cunningham, Florida [6'3" 234]
Jan Jorgensen, BYU [6'3" 256]
Andy Mattingly, Washington St. [6'4" 240]
Eric Norwood, South Carolina [6-1, 270]

MLB:

Rey Maualuga, Southern California [6-3, 250]
Jasper Brinkley, South Carolina [6-2, 257]
Scott McKillop, Pittsburgh [6-2, 243]
Brandon Spikes, Florida [6-3, 244]*
Josh Mauga, Nevada [6'2" 246 lbs.]
Dave Philistin, Maryland [6-2, 231]
James Laurenaitis, Ohio State [6-2, 240]
Prince Hall, Alabama [5-11, 250]*
Daniel Holtzclaw, Eastern Michigan [6-1, 245]
Worrell Williams, California [6-2, 249]
Antonio Appleby, Virginia [6-4, 248]
Mike Rivera, Kansas [6-3, 252]
Darryl Sharpton, Miami Fl. [6-0, 240]*
Darry Beckwith, LSU [6-1, 235]
Tyrone McKenzie, South Florida [6-2. 235]

This is a great draft for 3-4 teams and teams trying to build a 3-4
Did I miss anyone?

draftguru151
06-22-2008, 07:49 PM
Just a few comments, I think it's Eric Norwood, not Freeman. Also I'd list Sintim as a 3-4 OLB not ILB, that's where he plays now and does a very good job of it. Interested to see how he produces with not as much help.

Unbiased
06-22-2008, 07:53 PM
Brian Cushing is a great 3-4 OLB prospect.

rockio42
06-22-2008, 10:23 PM
6'6 is wayyyyy too tall for a 3-4 NT, usually the tallest you will see them is like 6'4, 6'6 is perfect for 3-4 DEs

and how is James Laurinaitis(?) not in the ILBs collumn

eaglesfan_45
06-22-2008, 10:34 PM
6'6 is wayyyyy too tall for a 3-4 NT, usually the tallest you will see them is like 6'4, 6'6 is perfect for 3-4 DEs

and how is James Laurinaitis(?) not in the ILBs collumn

He is a better fit for a 4-3 not a 3-4

Unbiased
06-22-2008, 10:44 PM
Eric Moncur is also a good looking 3-4 OLB prospect.

http://hurricanesports.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/moncur_eric00.html

Mr.Regular
06-22-2008, 10:45 PM
Anyone else really excited to see if Orakpo has a big year? He could be a big time prospect

eaglesfan_45
06-22-2008, 11:03 PM
Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech
Height: 6-7. Weight: 247.
Projected 40 Time: 4.67.

Is he a 3-4 OLB Prospect?

Big_Pete
06-22-2008, 11:03 PM
Alot will depend on the system being implemented.

For example some 3-4 teams prefer faster, more athletic ILBs for their 3-4. A good example is Donnie Edwards for the Chargers.

Some teams want pluggers at DE (ala Ty Warren, Luis Catillo etc); other schemes want DEs who can penetrate alot more.

Some other guys who could easily play in a 3-4

DE - Jeff Owens, Georgia [6-1, 298]
DE - Vance Walker, Georgia Tech [6-2, 295]
DE - Evander Hood, Missouri [6-2, 295]
DE - Alex Magee, Purdue [6-3, 295]
DE - DeMarcus Granger, Oklahoma [6-2, 315]
DE - Ricky Jean-Francois, LSU [6-3, 280]
DE - Sen'Derrick Marks, Auburn [6-1, 290]
DE - Vince Oghobaase, Duke [6-6, 310]
DE - Geno Atkins, Georgia [6-1, 290]

ILB - James Laurenaitis, Ohio State [6-2, 240]
ILB - Darry Beckwith, LSU [6-1, 235]
ILB - Tyrone McKenzie, South Florida [6-2. 235]

OLB - Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech [6-7, 256]


That is without any major positional changes such as Nic Harris, Oklahoma
[6-2,224] moving to LB

eaglesfan_45
06-22-2008, 11:17 PM
Alot will depend on the system being implemented.

For example some 3-4 teams prefer faster, more athletic ILBs for their 3-4. A good example is Donnie Edwards for the Chargers.

Some teams want pluggers at DE (ala Ty Warren, Luis Catillo etc); other schemes want DEs who can penetrate alot more.

Some other guys who could easily play in a 3-4

DE - Jeff Owens, Georgia [6-1, 298]
DE - Vance Walker, Georgia Tech [6-2, 295]
DE - Evander Hood, Missouri [6-2, 295]
DE - Alex Magee, Purdue [6-3, 295]
DE - DeMarcus Granger, Oklahoma [6-2, 315]
DE - Ricky Jean-Francois, LSU [6-3, 280]
DE - Sen'Derrick Marks, Auburn [6-1, 290]
DE - Vince Oghobaase, Duke [6-6, 310]
DE - Geno Atkins, Georgia [6-1, 290]

ILB - James Laurenaitis, Ohio State [6-2, 240]
ILB - Darry Beckwith, LSU [6-1, 235]
ILB - Tyrone McKenzie, South Florida [6-2. 235]

OLB - Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech [6-7, 256]


That is without any major positional changes such as Nic Harris, Oklahoma
[6-2,224] moving to LB

If Nic Harris, Myrone Rolle, or Taylor Mays move to LB it will be in a Tampa 2 defense not a 3-4. That, or they would be used much in the same way as Thomas Davis of the Carolina Panthers.

Bruce Banner
06-22-2008, 11:42 PM
If Nic Harris, Myrone Rolle, or Taylor Mays move to LB it will be in a Tampa 2 defense not a 3-4. That, or they would be used much in the same way as Thomas Davis of the Carolina Panthers.

No matter how hard I try I can't see Rolle becoming a LB. It would have to be a T2 though (if it was attempted). You're right about that.

fenikz
06-23-2008, 02:29 AM
Eric Moncur is also a good looking 3-4 OLB prospect.

http://hurricanesports.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/moncur_eric00.html


Moncur is such a beast, and is sure to put up great combine numbers

eaglesfan_45
06-23-2008, 03:54 AM
Just found yet another 3-4 edge rusher, Everette Brown DE Florida St. [6-4, 246]

Heres some things I learned about him
Might only have been a part-time starter but is more physically gifted than former Seminole Kamerion Wimbley.
Remember the big, bad Florida State defensive end? Guys like Andre Wadsworth and Peter Boulware and Reinard Wilson and Derrick Alexander. Seemed like every year during the glory years of the mid-1990s, the Seminoles had at least one dominant end, maybe two, and maybe one or two lurking in the shadows, waiting.

Well, been a while since FSU had such a guy. Yeah, the Seminoles have had good DEs in recent seasons: Kamerion Wimbley. Chauncy Davis. Eric Moore. But they haven't had that player - the one capable of instilling fear in opposing quarterbacks and the one that causes offensive coordinators to adjust their gameplans.

Everette Brown, though, might just be that player. The redshirt sophomore emerged in the fall with 37 tackles, 11.5 for loss and 6.5 sacks -- a team best. Now he wants more. And expects more. I caught up with Brown after practice yesterday and we discussed his performance in the fall, his goals for the offseason, his transition into becoming a leader and the prospects of the Seminoles' defensive line, which loses Andre Fluellen, Alex Boston and Letroy Guion.
Interview: http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/sports_college_fsu/2008/04/everette-brown.html

Willie Young DE North Carolina St. [6-5, 243]

Starting defensive end in the last eight games of the year, he played in all 12 contests ... Tallied 16 tackles for loss for the season, that ties as the seventh-best mark in school history ... That mark ties as the second-best ever by a Wolfpack sophomore and was one more than #1 NFL draft pick Mario Williams had during his sophomore campaign ... Pressured the opponent quarterback 24 times for the year, including an incredible eight times against North Carolina ... 14 of his 16 tackles for loss were in the last seven games of the year ... Posted the best all-around performance of his career in the win over Virginia, tallying seven tackles, including three sacks and pressuring the Cavalier QB five times ... In for a season-high 62 snaps in that contest ... Broke up six passes for the season, the third-highest mark on the team.

eaglesfan_45
06-23-2008, 04:07 AM
Did I miss any Juniors?

DeathbyStat
06-23-2008, 07:15 AM
This upcoming year seems to be one of the best ever for 3-4 talent.

eaglesalltheway
06-23-2008, 07:41 AM
Next year's draft is really strong as a whole, except for QB and RB, unless we get some juniors, in which case QB and RB will still be below average, but not as bad as its looking right now. WR, TE, OT, C, G, DT, LB, and S all seem strong IMO, and DE and CB don't seem too bad either.

LonghornsLegend
06-23-2008, 11:32 AM
Anyone else really excited to see if Orakpo has a big year? He could be a big time prospect

Thats who I was coming to post about, when I saw 3-4 prospects I thought of him, guy is a freak, and he would get to use his athleticism in a 3-4, I am expecting a big year out of him.

Cigaro
06-23-2008, 01:13 PM
I think you went overboard with your 3-4 ILBs. 3-4 ILBs need bulk, and lots of it. 3-4 ILBs have to have the strength and size to constantly match up with guards and break free for tackles. Players like James Laurinaitus and Darry Beckwith aren't really suited to play in the 3-4.

eaglesfan_45
06-23-2008, 01:16 PM
I think you went overboard with your 3-4 ILBs. 3-4 ILBs need bulk, and lots of it. 3-4 ILBs have to have the strength and size to constantly match up with guards and break free for tackles. Players like James Laurinaitus and Darry Beckwith aren't really suited to play in the 3-4.

Yeah, but then everyone said they wanted them and gave Donnie Edwards as an example of a ILB that lacked size. So I agree with you but....

Big_Pete
06-23-2008, 05:40 PM
Yeah, but then everyone said they wanted them and gave Donnie Edwards as an example of a ILB that lacked size. So I agree with you but....

It all depends on the style of 3-4 you use.

Traditionally, you want bigger guys at ILB.

But many teams also work well with smaller, more athletic tackling machine style guys at ILB. Often with bigger guys on the Dline, freeing up the ILBs to make plays.

Also don't forget that this is these guys college playing weights; it is quite possible that they add bulk when they do their combine/pro day preparation.

This draft is looking pretty loaded for a 3-4 defense; but once again good NTs will be the hardest to find.

eaglesfan_45
06-25-2008, 04:54 AM
If your building a 3-4, who would you take at OLB, Ware or Merriman?
Who compares best with Ware and Merriman in the draft?

Brian Orakpo = Shawne Merriman
George Selvie = DeMarcus Ware
IMO

TimD
06-25-2008, 11:08 AM
You have 2 5'11'' ILBs? I mean I know they weigh 140+ but that's real short for an inside lb

Solomon
06-27-2008, 10:36 AM
Did I miss any Juniors?

Yeah, Clemson DE Ricky Sapp. In terms of pure speed he might top the list. Very instinctive pass rusher who was very highly regarded coming out of HS. Poised for a breakout campaign.

eaglesfan_45
06-27-2008, 01:38 PM
Yeah, Clemson DE Ricky Sapp. In terms of pure speed he might top the list. Very instinctive pass rusher who was very highly regarded coming out of HS. Poised for a breakout campaign.

Woah :eek: looked him up and he is extremely under-sized. He is 6-5 but he weighs 225 according to the team and teams are usually generous on height and weight.

http://clemsontigers.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/sapp_ricky00.html

draftguru151
06-27-2008, 01:49 PM
He's up to around 250 now.

BufFan71
06-27-2008, 08:11 PM
George Hypolite DT Colorado
hes not a 3-4 end

he is a 3 tech in a 4-3 defense
specifically in a tampa-2 defense

he is an awesome pass-rusher who has a rare ability to get to the QB
but hes only like 6'0 280lbs

Solomon
06-28-2008, 02:55 AM
Woah :eek: looked him up and he is extremely under-sized. He is 6-5 but he weighs 225 according to the team and teams are usually generous on height and weight.

http://clemsontigers.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/sapp_ricky00.html

That link seems to be dated. The new link (I'm not even talking about this year but the one from last fall) has him at 240 lbs and that was before his 21st bday. He's probably a bit bigger this year.
http://clemsontigers.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/sapp_ricky01.html

Burns336
07-02-2008, 03:10 PM
Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech
Height: 6-7. Weight: 247.
Projected 40 Time: 4.67.

Is he a 3-4 OLB Prospect?

Great OLB Prospect.

I watch a lot of Georgia Tech and this guy is very explosive. He looks as if he could even add 10+ pounds without loosing any speed. I am expecting him to put up very gaudy combine numbers and probably be a 1st rounder just based off measurables.

Staubach12
07-02-2008, 03:42 PM
Johnson is a great player, I could see him staying at DE or moving to OLB. He'd be a fantastic football player either way.

TACKLE
07-02-2008, 05:14 PM
Great OLB Prospect.

I watch a lot of Georgia Tech and this guy is very explosive. He looks as if he could even add 10+ pounds without loosing any speed. I am expecting him to put up very gaudy combine numbers and probably be a 1st rounder just based off measurables.

Though I agree that Johsnon could play OLB in the 3-4, I think the he is perfect fit for RDE in a 4-3. Not many guys with his frame and athletism come along and are ideal fits in the 4-3. Lots of athletic DE's now are always looked at as 3-4 prospects but Johnson is a protype for a 4-3 edge rusher. I just think it would be a waste to put him in a 3-4 and ask him to cover.

Pb&j
07-03-2008, 10:53 AM
Micheal Johnson is too tall to play OLB, the leverage would be there with him coming out of a two point, and imagine a guy at 6'7 trying to drop back into coverage, it just seems awkward to think about.

OSUGiants17
07-03-2008, 11:09 AM
the NT class sux

Turtlepower
07-03-2008, 11:12 AM
the NT class sux

The 3-4 NT class always sucks because there are always a very slim amount of prospects that fit a 3-4 NT mold.

draftguru151
07-03-2008, 11:28 AM
Micheal Johnson is too tall to play OLB, the leverage would be there with him coming out of a two point, and imagine a guy at 6'7 trying to drop back into coverage, it just seems awkward to think about.

http://usversusthem.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/jason-taylor.jpg

Not to mention he could (and will likely) measure in at 6-6 (and even 6-5 like Kiwi). And he's played there some as well at Georgia Tech (just situationally, but still).

Pb&j
07-03-2008, 08:46 PM
Jason Taylor is a prototype 4-3 RDE and has played there his entire playing career. He has played standing up here and there, but he has been a full time 4-3 defensive end his entire career.

brat316
07-03-2008, 10:23 PM
Is J. Peppers a fair compairson to Johnson both freaks and extremely athletic.

draftguru151
07-03-2008, 10:29 PM
Jason Taylor is a prototype 4-3 RDE and has played there his entire playing career. He has played standing up here and there, but he has been a full time 4-3 defensive end his entire career.

He was defensive player of the year playing OLB.

eaglesfan_45
07-04-2008, 01:24 AM
Is J. Peppers a fair compairson to Johnson both freaks and extremely athletic.

I don't think so, I think Peppers is better against the run, he's bigger, he's stronger. But, when it comes down to speed and pass rush, they are about even from my understanding.

yourfavestoner
07-17-2008, 11:13 AM
No matter how hard I try I can't see Rolle becoming a LB. It would have to be a T2 though (if it was attempted). You're right about that.

The thing is, though, is that he's not much of a safety prospect either. He is the Roy Williams of college football.

lance uppercut
07-28-2008, 03:03 PM
the NT class sux

should be better than this year's NT class.

saer
07-28-2008, 03:14 PM
I don't know about some of your OLB prospects, mainly Willie Young and Ricky Sapp. You can't stick a speed rusher like Young out there. In the case of pure speed rushers like Dwight Freeney however, these guys do not project to this position because they are usually not as stout against the run as a bigger pass rusher with a blend of power and speed rushing skills like Brian Orakpo.

Cigaro
07-28-2008, 03:45 PM
Add Zack Follett from Cal onto the list at OLB. A bit like Mike Vrabel.

duckseason
07-28-2008, 04:27 PM
Add Zack Follett from Cal onto the list at OLB. A bit like Mike Vrabel.
I don't think Follett has the kind of size teams look for in a 3-4 OLB.

America
07-28-2008, 04:37 PM
Alot will depend on the system being implemented.

For example some 3-4 teams prefer faster, more athletic ILBs for their 3-4. A good example is Donnie Edwards for the Chargers.

Some teams want pluggers at DE (ala Ty Warren, Luis Catillo etc); other schemes want DEs who can penetrate alot more.

Some other guys who could easily play in a 3-4

DE - Jeff Owens, Georgia [6-1, 298]
DE - Vance Walker, Georgia Tech [6-2, 295]
DE - Evander Hood, Missouri [6-2, 295]
DE - Alex Magee, Purdue [6-3, 295]
DE - DeMarcus Granger, Oklahoma [6-2, 315]
DE - Ricky Jean-Francois, LSU [6-3, 280]
DE - Sen'Derrick Marks, Auburn [6-1, 290]
DE - Vince Oghobaase, Duke [6-6, 310]
DE - Geno Atkins, Georgia [6-1, 290]

ILB - James Laurenaitis, Ohio State [6-2, 240]
ILB - Darry Beckwith, LSU [6-1, 235]
ILB - Tyrone McKenzie, South Florida [6-2. 235]

OLB - Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech [6-7, 256]


That is without any major positional changes such as Nic Harris, Oklahoma
[6-2,224] moving to LB

The majority of the guys you listed at end would not hold up there. They'd have better success at NT, but they'd get destroyed there still. A lot of those guys are penetrating 2 gap UTs. And Luis Castillo is not a plugger. Check back to 2006, when he had 7 sacks in 9 starts (10 games). He's a rushing weakside 34 end.

keylime_5
07-28-2008, 05:03 PM
He's up to around 250 now.

Yeah, Ricky is about 6'4" and 240 plus now. He is a good fit as a weakside pass rusher in a 3-4. Basically a linebacker who plays with his hand on the ground because he's so good at getting a rush on the QB.

Cigaro
07-28-2008, 05:58 PM
I don't think Follett has the kind of size teams look for in a 3-4 OLB.

He's 6'2, 240 lbs. Not amazing measurables, but they'd work. He's already set to play OLB in Cals new 3-4.

duckseason
07-28-2008, 06:24 PM
He's 6'2, 240 lbs. Not amazing measurables, but they'd work. He's already set to play OLB in Cals new 3-4.
He's listed at 6-1 238 as of 7-18-08 on Cal's website. He sure doesn't look any bigger than that on the field.

Playing a 3-4 in college is much, much different than playing a 3-4 in the NFL. That goes without saying. If he can put on 20 pounds without hindering his speed and athleticism, maybe teams will start looking at him as a 3-4 OLB. I think it's more likely that a 3-4 team would give him a look on the inside.

DragonFireKai
07-28-2008, 11:01 PM
Victor Butler and Slade Norris at Oregon State would have potential as OLBs.

thebow305
07-29-2008, 12:56 AM
Reading a thread like this makes me VERY excited about next year's draft. I absolutely love the 3-4 and I am so glad we have installed it permanently.

That being said, I would love to get one of the top Pass rushers (either Michael Johnson or George Selvie) in the 1st to line up at OLB to replace Jason Taylor, then get one of the top ILB's available (Brinkley, Spikes, or Beckwith) in the 2nd to replace Zach Thomas.

ironman4579
08-04-2008, 04:00 PM
If the rumors of the new coaching staff getting Brandon Graham of Michigan down to around 255 lbs are true, he might be one to watch as a 3-4 LB now. I actually wish he didn`t lose that much weight though.

Mr. Stiller
08-05-2008, 02:14 AM
He's listed at 6-1 238 as of 7-18-08 on Cal's website. He sure doesn't look any bigger than that on the field.

Playing a 3-4 in college is much, much different than playing a 3-4 in the NFL. That goes without saying. If he can put on 20 pounds without hindering his speed and athleticism, maybe teams will start looking at him as a 3-4 OLB. I think it's more likely that a 3-4 team would give him a look on the inside.

Not every 3-4 OLB has to be 6'3 250-260Lbs or more.

James Harrison is an animal and played all last season at 6'0 242lbs.

Mr. Stiller
08-05-2008, 02:16 AM
Reading a thread like this makes me VERY excited about next year's draft. I absolutely love the 3-4 and I am so glad we have installed it permanently.

That being said, I would love to get one of the top Pass rushers (either Michael Johnson or George Selvie) in the 1st to line up at OLB to replace Jason Taylor, then get one of the top ILB's available (Brinkley, Spikes, or Beckwith) in the 2nd to replace Zach Thomas.

I don't get the Johnson to OLB Hype.

6'7 as a 3-4 OLB? Not good.. I think 6'5 is pretty tall already. Unless he has some amazing hips, he'll likely struggle in both OLB passrushing and coverage.

Too lanky to change direction quick and fluid and too hard to get under the OT from a standing up Position.

He's either a 4-3 DE or a 3-4 DE with an additional 30-40lbs.

thebow305
08-05-2008, 11:27 AM
Not every 3-4 OLB has to be 6'3 250-260Lbs or more.

James Harrison is an animal and played all last season at 6'0 242lbs.

Great point! But Harrison is an exception, that is definitely not the norm for the position. I guess you could say the same for Woodley, who is about 6'1" I believe.

Mr. Stiller
08-05-2008, 05:22 PM
Great point! But Harrison is an exception, that is definitely not the norm for the position. I guess you could say the same for Woodley, who is about 6'1" I believe.

Yup.. Woodley is between 6'1 and 6'2.

Harrison is an exception.. but there's always more guys that might have that capability.


Weren't quite a few people looking at Marcus Harrison? Wasn't he like 6'1 234lbs?

themaninblack
08-05-2008, 10:17 PM
As long as you're between about 6'0" to 6'4" I don't think height is much of an issue with OLBers. Not exactly a position that demands height and you could argue its probably a good thing to be on the shorter side.

Mr. Stiller
08-06-2008, 01:52 AM
As long as you're between about 6'0" to 6'4" I don't think height is much of an issue with OLBers. Not exactly a position that demands height and you could argue its probably a good thing to be on the shorter side.

Yeah, they can stand up taller before the snap..

Anywho, here is my list... A couple guys I may have forgotten.

2009 Sr. DE's: (Name, School (4-3 position) )

1. Tyson Jackson, LSU (DE) ~ 6'5 295lbs
2. Pannel Egboh, Stanford (DE/UT) ~ 6'6 282lbs
3. Fili Moala, USC (DT) ~ 6'5 300lbs
4. Lawrence Wilson, Ohio State (DE/UT) ~ 6'6 270lbs
5. DeMonte' Bolden, Tennessee (DT) ~ 6'6 295lbs
6. Kyle Moore, USC (DE) ~ 6'5 272lbs
7. Darryl Richard, Georgia Tech (DT) 6'4 290lbs
8. Evander Hood, Missouri (DT) ~ 6'3 295lbs
9. Derek Walker, Illinois (DE) ~ 6'4 272lbs
10. Jason Chapman, Wisconsin (DT) ~ 6'4 286lbs
11. Marcus Hands, East Carolina (DE) ~ 6'5 278lbs
12. Jervonte Jackson, Florida Atlantic (DT) ~ 6'5 292lbs
13. Louis Ellis, Shaw (DE) ~ 6'4 295lbs
14. John Gill, Northwestern (DT) ~ 6'3 296lbs
15. Khalif Mitchell, East Carolina ~ 6'6 320lbs (Rumored 4.80-4.89 speed)

2009 Jr. DE's:

1. Vince Oghobaase, Duke (DT) ~ 6'6 310lbs
2. Arthur Jones, Syracuse (DT) ~ 6'4 296lbs
3. Tyson Alualu, California (DT) ~ 6'3 290lbs
4. Doug Worthington, Ohio State (DE) ~ 6'7 275lbs
5. Michael Jordan, Michigan State (DE) ~ 6'5 295lbs
6. Rajon Henley, Texas Tech (DT) ~ 6'3 289lbs
7. Ndamukong Suh, Nebraska (DT) ~ 6'4 305lbs
8. Lorenzo Washington, Alabama(DT) ~ 6'4 290lbs
9. John Fletcher, Wyoming (DE) ~ 6'4 275lbs
10. Corey Wootton, Northwestern(DE) ~ 6'7 280lbs



2009 Sr. NT's:

1. Jeff Owens, Georgia ~ 6'3 298lbs
2. Terrance Taylor, Michigan ~ 6'0 310lbs
3. Peria Jerry, Mississippi ~ 6'2 310lbs
4. Myron Pryor, Kentucky ~ 6'1 308lbs
5. Roy Miller, Texas ~ 6'2 298lbs
6. Dorrell Scott, Clemson ~ 6'3 318lbs
7. Antonio Dixon, Miami ~ 6'3 335lbs
8. Ron Brace, Boston College ~ 6'3 326lbs
9. Vincent Rhodes, Baylor ~ 6'2 312lbs
10. Marques Hall, South Carolina ~ 6'3 312lbs
11. Greg Brown, Indiana ~ 6'2 308lbs
12. Ronald Green, Miss. Valley State ~ 6'0 320lbs
13. Tonga Tea, Oklahoma state ~ 6'0 315lbs
14. Kevin Dixon, Nebraska ~ 6'3 298lbs
15. Bryce Scanlon, Weber State ~ 6'1 299lbs

2009 Jr. NT's:

1. Al Woods, LSU ~ 6'4 315lbs
2. Alan Michael-Cash, NC State ~ 6'1 308lbs
3. Boo Robinson, Wake Forest ~ 6'2 326lbs
4. Ekom Udofia, Stanford ~ 6'2 315lbs
5. Dan Williams, Tennessee ~ 6'3 310lbs
6. Kellen Heard, Texas A&M ~ 6'6 340lbs
7. Swanson Miller, OK State ~ 6'3 330lbs
8. Kinney Rucker, Duke ~ 6'2 305lbs
9. Gary Tharrington, App state ~ 6'0 296lbs
10. Daniel Calvin, Kansas State ~ 6'3 322lbs

2009 Sr. 3-4 OLBS:

1. Brian Orakpo, Texas ~ 6'4 248lbs
2. Tim Jamison, Michigan ~ 6'3 255lbs
3. Antwain Robinson, Arkansas ~ 6'3 255lbs
4. Matt Shaughnessy, Wisconsin ~ 6'6 245lbs
5. Ian Campbell, Kansas State ~ 6'4 245lbs
6. Jamaal Westerman, Rutgers ~ 6'3 255lbs
7. Clint Sintim, Virginia ~ 6'3 256lbs
8. Eric Moncur, Miami ~ 6'3 245lbs
9. Worrell Williams, California ~ 6'2 248lbs
10. Larry English, Northern Illinois ~ 6'2 245lbs
11. Orion Martin, Virginia Tech ~ 6'2 256lbs
12. Will Davis, Illinois ~ 6'3 246lbs
13. Willie VanDeSteeq, Minnesota ~ 6'4 255lbs
14. Neefy Moffett, Florida State ~ 6'1 255lbs
15. Zach Slate, East Carolina ~ 6'4 238lbs



2009 Jr. 3-4 OLBS:

1. George Selvie, South Florida ~ 6'4 242lbs
2. Ricky Sapp, Clemson ~ 6'4 245lbs
3. Greg Hardy, Mississippi ~ 6'5 255lbs
4. Maurice Evans, Penn State ~ 6'2 265lbs
5. Auston English, Oklahoma ~ 6'3 253lbs
6. Jermaine Cunningham, Florida ~ 6'3 234lbs
7. Everette Brown, Florida State ~ 6'4 252lbs
8. Willie Young, NC State ~ 6'5 232lbs
9. Brandon Graham, Michigan ~ 6'2 265lbs
10. Markus White, Florida State ~ 6'4 245lbs
11. Eric Norwood, South Carolina ~ 6'1 262lbs
12. Raven Gray, Auburn ~ 6'4 256lbs



These were my end of 2007 season rankings and I won't be updating them until about Week 5.

Sniper
08-06-2008, 09:07 AM
Yup.. Woodley is between 6'1 and 6'2.

Harrison is an exception.. but there's always more guys that might have that capability.


Weren't quite a few people looking at Marcus Harrison? Wasn't he like 6'1 234lbs?

LaMarr Woodley is an exception to every rule. He's "too small, too slow" but he's a pass rushing machine. Didn't he have something like four sacks in eighty snaps last year, and then two more sacks in the playoffs?

Mr. Stiller
08-06-2008, 12:37 PM
LaMarr Woodley is an exception to every rule. He's "too small, too slow" but he's a pass rushing machine. Didn't he have something like four sacks in eighty snaps last year, and then two more sacks in the playoffs?

Yup.. He's averaging 1 sack per 20 offensive snaps. I don't know how many plays our defense played against last year.. but I love that ratio.

Now to be fair.. 2 of his sacks came from being unblocked. But Merriman, Ware and Porter all benefitted from some scheme sacks as well.

Woodley was too slow at the 269lbs he showed up to camp last year. He's running a round 255-258lbs now and IIRC threw up a 4.68 and a 4.72 40' this year in camp.



Here's the Kicker there Sniper (I believe your a Michigan man) Woodley has been getting some 1 on 1 mentoring. From Former Steeler LOLB... Kevin Greene. He now has a full repertoire of moves.

I was talking to one of the more informed Steelers beat reporters (He actually really knows football) Said Woodley was only utilizing 2 moves.... a Swim move and a bullrush before camp.

He is now rocking a ripnpull, spin, bullrush, etc.

Greene has also worked with Timmons. I posted video's in the Steelers forums of the improvement with Timmons from Greene.

D-Unit
08-06-2008, 02:35 PM
3-4 prospects???

BJ Raji baby.

http://www.techsideline.com/football/2006/pics/opponents/bjraji_bc.jpg

eaglesfan_45
08-06-2008, 02:42 PM
He's ideal for a 3-4 NT IMO. He's big and strong enough to take on 2 blockers.

Cribbs>Hester
08-06-2008, 03:31 PM
3-4 prospects???

BJ Raji baby.

http://www.techsideline.com/football/2006/pics/opponents/bjraji_bc.jpg

Can you say Babatunde Oshinowo, Montavious Stanley, Xavier Kennedy ect. Raji is not xplosive at all, he lacks flexibility in his hips and has poor change of direction. He's powerfull, plays with good leverage and built low to the ground, but he's no starter or star. Raji's celiing is a situational run stuffer in the NFL and his floor is just like those three previously mentioned NT prospects.

Don Vito
08-06-2008, 04:00 PM
3-4 prospects???

BJ Raji baby.

http://www.techsideline.com/football/2006/pics/opponents/bjraji_bc.jpg

Raji is definitely one of the top NT prospects in this class. He, Ron Brace, and Damik Scafe are going to form one hell of a DT rotation in the middle of what should be an excellent defense.

Cigaro
08-07-2008, 10:53 PM
Here are my 3-4 position rankings for players who seniors or I believe will come out and have a good chance of being drafted into the 3-4:

Nose Tackle:
1. Terrance Taylor, Michigan- A very large man with outstanding strength. Taylor is already physically ready to play in the league and should cope with constant double teams easily.
2. B.J. Raji, Boston College- As mentioned earlier in the thread, he's a true monster. Not many know of him and a lot of that has to do with him sitting out the 2007 season with academic issues, but he is easily a top nose tackle prospect. Raji comes in at 6'1, 323 pounds, meaning he has the exact size and strength NFL scouts look for when drafting NTs.
3. Ron Brace, Boston College- A main reason why Boston College's run defense was second best in the nation last year, and with Raji coming back, it could easily be the best this go around. Like teammate Raji, he has the ideal size for an NFL nose tackle and should do well at the position in years to come.

Defensive End:
1. Tyson Jackson, Louisiana State- Easily the top 3-4 end prospect in the class. Has the size scouts dream about for the position; 6'5, 295 pounds. He should make an immediate and large impact for whomever drafts him.
2. Vince Oghobaase, Duke- A lot of people want to call him a 3-4 NT, but he's easily too tall for that position. His height however makes him perfect for the end spot. His future coaches may ask him to lose a little weight a 310 pounds, although there are a few quality ends who play effectively at that size.
3. Pannel Egboh, Stanford- Not talked up much, but is a solid player. A little light for the position at 275 pounds, but his 6'6 frame means he can add weight without sacrificing any sort of mobility.

Outside Linebacker:
1. George Selvie, South Florida- Barring a bad season or combine performance, Selvie is set up to be a greater prospect than Shawn Merriman or DeMarcus Ware. He is easily the best pass rusher in college currently and has the ideal frame to play outside at 6'4, 245 pounds.
2. Brian Cushing, Southern California- Cushing is another top 3-4 outside linebacker prospect. He's excelled at both rushing the passer and playing stand up linebacker, and his experience and physical tools means he should easily be a first rounder next year.
3. Brian Orakpo, Texas- He's an underachiever, but is also set to finally break out this season. He has everything you look for physically, including size and speed, so if he can put it together this year, he should be a relatively high pick.

Inside Linebacker:
1. Rey Maualuga, Southern California- Maualuga is easily the best linebacker in the nation, regardless of scheme. He has the size(6'3, 255), speed, instincts, and toughness needed to play inside. Should easily be a top five pick, with a realistic chance of anchoring the Dolphins new 3-4.
2. Jasper Brinkley, South Carolina- One of the largest(6'2, 275) and toughest linebackers in the nation. Before he was sidelined with an knee injury that ended his 2007 season short, he was possibly the most feared linebacker in the SEC, earning All-SEC 1st team honors in 2006.
3. Brandon Spikes, Florida- When Brinkley went down, Spikes jumped right in to claim his All-SEC 1st team spot at linebacker in 2007. Spikes is a tackling machine and has the size needed to play inside on the next level.

Mr. Stiller
08-08-2008, 12:01 AM
Here are my 3-4 position rankings for players who seniors or I believe will come out and have a good chance of being drafted into the 3-4:

Nose Tackle:
1. Terrance Taylor, Michigan- A very large man with outstanding strength. Taylor is already physically ready to play in the league and should cope with constant double teams easily.
2. B.J. Raji, Boston College- As mentioned earlier in the thread, he's a true monster. Not many know of him and a lot of that has to do with him sitting out the 2007 season with academic issues, but he is easily a top nose tackle prospect. Raji comes in at 6'1, 323 pounds, meaning he has the exact size and strength NFL scouts look for when drafting NTs.
3. Ron Brace, Boston College- A main reason why Boston College's run defense was second best in the nation last year, and with Raji coming back, it could easily be the best this go around. Like teammate Raji, he has the ideal size for an NFL nose tackle and should do well at the position in years to come.

Defensive End:
1. Tyson Jackson, Louisiana State- Easily the top 3-4 end prospect in the class. Has the size scouts dream about for the position; 6'5, 295 pounds. He should make an immediate and large impact for whomever drafts him.
2. Vince Oghobaase, Duke- A lot of people want to call him a 3-4 NT, but he's easily too tall for that position. His height however makes him perfect for the end spot. His future coaches may ask him to lose a little weight a 310 pounds, although there are a few quality ends who play effectively at that size.
3. Pannel Egboh, Stanford- Not talked up much, but is a solid player. A little light for the position at 275 pounds, but his 6'6 frame means he can add weight without sacrificing any sort of mobility.

Outside Linebacker:
1. George Selvie, South Florida- Barring a bad season or combine performance, Selvie is set up to be a greater prospect than Shawn Merriman or DeMarcus Ware. He is easily the best pass rusher in college currently and has the ideal frame to play outside at 6'4, 245 pounds.
2. Brian Cushing, Southern California- Cushing is another top 3-4 outside linebacker prospect. He's excelled at both rushing the passer and playing stand up linebacker, and his experience and physical tools means he should easily be a first rounder next year.
3. Brian Orakpo, Texas- He's an underachiever, but is also set to finally break out this season. He has everything you look for physically, including size and speed, so if he can put it together this year, he should be a relatively high pick.

Inside Linebacker:
1. Rey Maualuga, Southern California- Maualuga is easily the best linebacker in the nation, regardless of scheme. He has the size(6'3, 255), speed, instincts, and toughness needed to play inside. Should easily be a top five pick, with a realistic chance of anchoring the Dolphins new 3-4.
2. Jasper Brinkley, South Carolina- One of the largest(6'2, 275) and toughest linebackers in the nation. Before he was sidelined with an knee injury that ended his 2007 season short, he was possibly the most feared linebacker in the SEC, earning All-SEC 1st team honors in 2006.
3. Brandon Spikes, Florida- When Brinkley went down, Spikes jumped right in to claim his All-SEC 1st team spot at linebacker in 2007. Spikes is a tackling machine and has the size needed to play inside on the next level.

People may disagree with me but I think that Cushing was a decent, not great 3-4 SOLB and would be better fit at SILB as a run stuffer, coverage guy and occasional blitzer. I don't feel he has the passrushing moves or strength to be an elite Rushbacker.

I think he really would be best as a 4-3 SLB or 3-4 SILB.

Bob Sacamano
10-21-2008, 08:09 PM
I'd like to throw in my sleeper 3-4 DE, San Jose St. DT Jarron Gilbert

he has excellent size for the 3-4 DE position, listed at 6'6" and weighing 280lbs. and so far this year he has 7.5 TFL and 4 sacks

which is about what he's done every year for his career, last year he had 4 sacks, the year before he had 5

and an ILB prospect for the 3-4 is Pittsburgh's Scott McKillop, he's probably not very fast, but I think he could be a 3-down LB because he had 7 PBU's last year, but the guy does it all

noone mentioned Oregon DE Nick Reed as a potential OLB, last year he had 22.5 TFL and 12 sacks, and so far this year he has 11.5 TFL and 8 sacks

or Houston DE Phillip Hunt, can't remember his stats but he has been a pass-rushing terror

or Missouri DE Stryker I love that name Sulak, a strong-side OLB type in the 3-4, since in a year and half worth of games has forced 7 fumbles

MarioPalmer
10-22-2008, 12:48 AM
Did I miss any Juniors?

George Selvie is a must for a 3-4 team and I think right now the best prospect for a 3-4 defense. I think you mised him. At 6'4 245lbs. he is going to wow the hell out of scouts, coaches and GM's come pre-draft workouts. The kid is unstoppable coming off the edge and has the athleticism that will allow him to make the transition seemlessly.

STARHEATHER
10-22-2008, 02:25 PM
i really dont like the rankings too much. i like tyson jackson. i dont like egboh or ogbassie. i dont like any of your ilbs. aaron curry, sergio kindle, eric norwood are better than those guys. better athletes and make more plays. plus they all have pass rush skills. maaluga, spikers, brinkley dont. plus brinkley coming off acl. i like orakpo. selvie i like too but hed be a late rd 1 for me right now. cushing is never going to be an effective pass rusher and injury prone. he doesnt play end for them now. i dont see any 3-4 olb there.no terrence cody as nt. terrence taylors given up gaping holes all yr. i dont think he can play nt. i kind of like the bc guys. ive only seen them once they were pdecent but nothing id use a high pck on. cushing may be able to be a lb for a 4-3 like in the stewart bradley mold but those guys arent worth high picks. i would say for high picks

de jackson
olb orakpo, selvie, hardy, kindle(also could be ilb)
ilb curry, norwood
nt cody

Babylon
10-22-2008, 02:31 PM
i really dont like the rankings too much. i like tyson jackson. i dont like egboh or ogbassie. i dont like any of your ilbs. aaron curry, sergio kindle, eric norwood are better than those guys. better athletes and make more plays. plus they all have pass rush skills. maaluga, spikers, brinkley dont. plus brinkley coming off acl. i like orakpo. selvie i like too but hed be a late rd 1 for me right now. cushing is never going to be an effective pass rusher and injury prone. he doesnt play end for them now. i dont see any 3-4 olb there.no terrence cody as nt. terrence taylors given up gaping holes all yr. i dont think he can play nt. i kind of like the bc guys. ive only seen them once they were pdecent but nothing id use a high pck on. cushing may be able to be a lb for a 4-3 like in the stewart bradley mold but those guys arent worth high picks. i would say for high picks

de jackson
olb orakpo, selvie, hardy, kindle(also could be ilb)
ilb curry, norwood
nt cody

I agree on Cushing not being an effective pass rusher from the outside, i do think he can get to the QB from the inside where he will probably play in a 3-4 or a 4-3. His strengths are his instincts, pursuit and pass coverage.

STARHEATHER
10-22-2008, 02:48 PM
you cant play olb in the 3-4 if you cant get to the qb off the edge. its the primary function. i dont think hes physical or athletic enough to play ilb. i could see him as a 4-3 olb used on a lot of blitzes and in passing situations. thats not enough for a high pick for me. then throw his injuries in, and in lowers him more. not before rd 4 for me. i dont think hes going to survive. i already know hes a limited athlete. he could help for a couple years. a short term investment surely.

Babylon
10-22-2008, 02:53 PM
you cant play olb in the 3-4 if you cant get to the qb off the edge. its the primary function. i dont think hes physical or athletic enough to play ilb. i could see him as a 4-3 olb used on a lot of blitzes and in passing situations. thats not enough for a high pick for me. then throw his injuries in, and in lowers him more. not before rd 4 for me. i dont think hes going to survive. i already know hes a limited athlete. he could help for a couple years. a short term investment surely.


Probably going to run a 4.65 at 250lbs and really breaks down well at the point of attack. As for injuries he plays so hard that he gets dinged up a lot but he hasnt missed any time due to injuries this year.

STARHEATHER
10-22-2008, 02:58 PM
he doesnt really. hes very tight hipped and not a great natural athlete. he tried to tackle stewart on a pass play last year and he juked him and broke his ankles made his body contort in an unnatural manner. he may habe decent straight speed but his lateral movement is sub par. hes just not a smooth natural athlete. he doesnt do well in space (see above) . not a big hitter. not a greta pass rusher. i actually like him lots more than i used as hes been their best player this year on defense. i just dont like him very much.

illmatic74
10-22-2008, 03:00 PM
you cant play olb in the 3-4 if you cant get to the qb off the edge. its the primary function. i dont think hes physical or athletic enough to play ilb. i could see him as a 4-3 olb used on a lot of blitzes and in passing situations. thats not enough for a high pick for me. then throw his injuries in, and in lowers him more. not before rd 4 for me. i dont think hes going to survive. i already know hes a limited athlete. he could help for a couple years. a short term investment surely.At worth Cushing will be an average starter in the NFL.

STARHEATHER
10-22-2008, 03:02 PM
i dont think. at least not on a good defense for any extended period of time

illmatic74
10-22-2008, 03:07 PM
He is solid at everything which would make him valuable for a lot of teams

Bruce Banner
10-22-2008, 03:12 PM
Take note my friends. The two greatest intellects on NFLDC are having a debate "for the ages".

STARHEATHER
10-22-2008, 03:45 PM
i do nt think he does anything particularly well.

Babylon
10-22-2008, 04:12 PM
i actually like him lots more than i used as hes been their best player this year on defense. i just dont like him very much.[/QUOTE]

That's quite a statement. Best player on the USC defense this year but you dont like him very much. Wow!

DreadedDatSkinsFan
10-22-2008, 04:13 PM
he doesnt really. hes very tight hipped and not a great natural athlete. he tried to tackle stewart on a pass play last year and he juked him and broke his ankles made his body contort in an unnatural manner. he may habe decent straight speed but his lateral movement is sub par. hes just not a smooth natural athlete. he doesnt do well in space (see above) . not a big hitter. not a greta pass rusher. i actually like him lots more than i used as hes been their best player this year on defense. i just dont like him very much.
So let get this right....If u get juked in the open field....And end up injured in the process...then u are not much of an athlete right??? Or, my bad "just not a smooth natural athlete".....correct???

Mr. Stiller
10-22-2008, 05:23 PM
Jared Odrick is one of my favorite 3-4 DE capable players.. I hope he comes out this year. He and Arthur Jones would be amazing Ends.


As for Terrance Taylor. AQ Shipley of PSU just walked him out of the play on many occasions.. in fact. They ran right at him.


Either Shipley is way way underrated (Should be in the top 2 C's discussion) or Taylor is way overrated.

Sniper
10-22-2008, 08:11 PM
As for Terrance Taylor. AQ Shipley of PSU just walked him out of the play on many occasions.. in fact. They ran right at him.


Either Shipley is way way underrated (Should be in the top 2 C's discussion) or Taylor is way overrated.

Shipley is really good, and Taylor is lazy at times. Not gonna lie, I might have packed it in by now too if I were him.

STARHEATHER
10-22-2008, 08:23 PM
yes cushing is a limited athlete and i dont like his injury history

DoWnThEfiElD
10-22-2008, 08:27 PM
The guy was amazing in the Rose Bowl when he was the MVP. He is a fine prospect for a 3-4 OLB.

Babylon
10-22-2008, 08:35 PM
The guy was amazing in the Rose Bowl when he was the MVP. He is a fine prospect for a 3-4 OLB.


He's had flashes of brilliance followed by some nagging injuries although he hasnt missed any time this year. To speak to one of his injuries, in the Idaho game at the beginning of last season some clown dove at the back of his legs and i'll argue lesser human beings would have been on the shelf for a year (yours truly included), Cushing came back in about a month and had a pretty good year. To me that showed me something. I dont know if i would use him outside in a 3-4 but would move him inside or play him outside in a 4-3.

illmatic74
10-22-2008, 09:11 PM
He looks like the prototypical 4-3 sam linebacker.

DoWnThEfiElD
10-22-2008, 09:44 PM
I guess I just always saw him as a get after the QB type linebacker. I don't see many of his games though.

Babylon
10-22-2008, 09:51 PM
I guess I just always saw him as a get after the QB type linebacker. I don't see many of his games though.

He's not an effective pass rusher when matched up with an OT but when they bring him up the middle he's been very good at getting in the face of the QB. I get pretty much all of the SC games and in some cases they're routing my Washington teams.

Number 10
10-22-2008, 11:45 PM
Cushing can play any of the LB spots in the 3-4. I actually might prefer him on the inside where he could use more of his lateral speed and strength. You could also shift him around, a la Mike Vrabel.

He's gonna be a good one, and I doubt he falls into the 20's.

SuperKevin
10-22-2008, 11:58 PM
I like Phillip Hunt of Houston as a late round OLB prospect. 6'2" 260 lbs with awesome pass rushing abilities. He has 10 sacks already on the year

Paranoidmoonduck
10-23-2008, 12:03 AM
yes cushing is a limited athlete and i dont like his injury history

I can't argue the injury history, but last I checked Cushing was running in the mid 4.5 range with great strength numbers. I'm not seeing a limited athlete there.

Number 10
10-23-2008, 12:11 AM
By limited athlete he may mean short shuttle, 3 cone, agility type drills.

I don't expect him to wow anyone at the combine, although if he does the bench, he'll approach the 40 mark, write it down.

While he doesn't have top tier explosion, he is very, VERY quick in short space. Thats arguably the most impressive trait of his game.

Texas Homer
10-23-2008, 12:22 AM
Sergio Kindle fits the bill. He needs to add more muscle and bulk, but he's a BEAST and is a better version of Cushing(imo).

Mr. Stiller
10-23-2008, 12:35 AM
I'm sorry...

Of all the guys in the NCAA I see Brian Orakpo as the 6'4 260+ Version of James Harrison.

They're insane Strength and style of Passrushing is identical.

STARHEATHER
10-23-2008, 08:51 PM
kindles afar superior athlete to cushing. theres no way cushing runs in the 4.5s more likely 4.7s. kindle is going to be in that pat willis david harris range. 4.5 area or better. at 63 240 with the pass rush skills. unlike cushing, who "can" play all over kindle actually does in the games and he doesnt miss tackles and he rushes the qb etc etc. hes more versatile than orakpo and a better natural athlete. not as big or as good straight pass rusher. he can be effective at all positions not just projected but in the actual games. if you saw that play i saw where stewart broke his ankles youd understand what i mean by limited athlete. just tight hipped and not natural.

Number 10
10-23-2008, 09:19 PM
kindles afar superior athlete to cushing. theres no way cushing runs in the 4.5s more likely 4.7s. kindle is going to be in that pat willis david harris range. 4.5 area or better. at 63 240 with the pass rush skills. unlike cushing, who "can" play all over kindle actually does in the games and he doesnt miss tackles and he rushes the qb etc etc. hes more versatile than orakpo and a better natural athlete. not as big or as good straight pass rusher. he can be effective at all positions not just projected but in the actual games. if you saw that play i saw where stewart broke his ankles youd understand what i mean by limited athlete. just tight hipped and not natural.

You can't use one play to categorize a guy "tight hipped".

Did you watch the Oregon State game? Cushing's hips sure didn't look tight against that little freshman back they were up against.

STARHEATHER
10-23-2008, 10:41 PM
it was bad. really bad. i dont think ive ever seen a mans body contort in that way. and he didnt stay on his feet. i dont like dudes who land on the behind trying to tackle especially when they dont get touched. i would agree generally, but ive seen a lot of cushing and its not just one play.

rainbeaukid2
10-23-2008, 10:55 PM
kindles afar superior athlete to cushing. theres no way cushing runs in the 4.5s more likely 4.7s. kindle is going to be in that pat willis david harris range. 4.5 area or better. at 63 240 with the pass rush skills. unlike cushing, who "can" play all over kindle actually does in the games and he doesnt miss tackles and he rushes the qb etc etc. hes more versatile than orakpo and a better natural athlete. not as big or as good straight pass rusher. he can be effective at all positions not just projected but in the actual games. if you saw that play i saw where stewart broke his ankles youd understand what i mean by limited athlete. just tight hipped and not natural.

willis is definitely in a class of his own, and does not deserve to be mentioned with david harris or sergio kindle 40 time wise. harris ran a mid to high-4.5 while willis ran a 4.37 and kindle will not match willis's time. so to say he is in willis's range is ridiculous

STARHEATHER
10-23-2008, 11:08 PM
harris was 4.59 at the combine willis was 4.51. kindle is in the 4.5 range if not faster. he compares very well physically. willis was the freak. hes in that type area. 4.5 area.

illmatic74
10-24-2008, 12:05 AM
harris was 4.59 at the combine willis was 4.51. kindle is in the 4.5 range if not faster. he compares very well physically. willis was the freak. hes in that type area. 4.5 area. 40 yard dash is not the most important thing

Solomon
10-24-2008, 12:06 AM
As for Terrance Taylor. AQ Shipley of PSU just walked him out of the play on many occasions.. in fact. They ran right at him.


Either Shipley is way way underrated (Should be in the top 2 C's discussion) or Taylor is way overrated.

Sorry to go off topic but the only reason Shipley isn't in the top 2 C's is because this is a ridiculous year for centers. IMO Alex Mack, Jon Luigs and Antoine Caldwell are all first day material while Max Unger, Shipley and Eric Wood should all be gone by the middle of the fourth round.

Mr. Stiller
10-24-2008, 01:06 AM
Sorry to go off topic but the only reason Shipley isn't in the top 2 C's is because this is a ridiculous year for centers. IMO Alex Mack, Jon Luigs and Antoine Caldwell are all first day material while Max Unger, Shipley and Eric Wood should all be gone by the middle of the fourth round.
Agreed.

Shipley doesn't have superior size or frame to add, but the guy would make an excellent pulling G or Solid C. Very Athletic and top notch understanding of Leverage and hand work.

TickOffOurBestPlayer
10-24-2008, 06:32 AM
Brian Cushing = Brian Bosworth

ToldLikeItIs
10-24-2008, 06:35 AM
Does a slimmed down Mitch King get some mention as a OLB in a 3-4, ala dolphins OLB Matt Roth?

He plays 6'3 285 right now, runs in the 4.8 range but possess very good lateral quickness. If he got down to 260 or so, does he get a look as a 3-4 OLB?

Mr. Stiller
10-24-2008, 02:10 PM
Does a slimmed down Mitch King get some mention as a OLB in a 3-4, ala dolphins OLB Matt Roth?

He plays 6'3 285 right now, runs in the 4.8 range but possess very good lateral quickness. If he got down to 260 or so, does he get a look as a 3-4 OLB?

It's highly unlikely ... for King, he's likely a 3-4 WDE candidate.

Babylon
10-24-2008, 02:24 PM
Brian Cushing = Brian Bosworth

Could you explain that comparison because i dont see it.

Mr. Stiller
10-24-2008, 03:18 PM
Could you explain that comparison because i dont see it.

Bosworth? Really?

Cushing reminds me of Derrick Johnson. He can blitz, solid in coverage and pretty strong against the run. I don't know if he has the athleticism of Johnson.. but everything else is there.

Mr. Stiller
11-01-2008, 07:11 AM
Anyone looking for a 3-4 OLB... the best one right out of the box may very well be...



Larry English, Northern Illinois..

6'3, 256lbs 4.63-4.75 ranged speed. Very smooth, very powerful.... VERY angry.

Great motor. I have never seen him stop until the whistle.

And he plays "Pissed."

CashmoneyDrew
11-01-2008, 12:08 PM
I don't see why king would want to lose 20+ lbs. to play a position he's never played before when he can just stay where he's at right now and play on the line in the pros.

Larry121283
11-01-2008, 09:59 PM
Just throwing out an endorsement for Clint Sintim. Really really good football player. I like what he brings to the table.

Bob Sacamano
11-10-2008, 09:48 PM
Anyone looking for a 3-4 OLB... the best one right out of the box may very well be...



Larry English, Northern Illinois..

6'3, 256lbs 4.63-4.75 ranged speed. Very smooth, very powerful.... VERY angry.

Great motor. I have never seen him stop until the whistle.

And he plays "Pissed."

I like him alot too, top 10 in the nation in sacks last 2 years, not doing as great this year, but he's probably drawing a hell of alot of attention

could be another James Harrison, but w/ earlier success

rainbeaukid2
11-11-2008, 12:53 AM
Anyone looking for a 3-4 OLB... the best one right out of the box may very well be...



Larry English, Northern Illinois..

6'3, 256lbs 4.63-4.75 ranged speed. Very smooth, very powerful.... VERY angry.

Great motor. I have never seen him stop until the whistle.

And he plays "Pissed."

sounds like a mike singletary player, maybe the niners could actually draft someone who can rush the passer

STARHEATHER
11-11-2008, 05:15 PM
i think cushing got his first sack of the year this past week. anyway im liking jared odrick 6 5 308 jr from penn st. hes looking like a potential stud 3-4 end. he may not come out but hes one to watch. jared odrick 6 5 308

SeanTaylorRIP
11-11-2008, 05:20 PM
Just throwing out an endorsement for Clint Sintim. Really really good football player. I like what he brings to the table.

Very true I think people are severely underrating the absolute beast this kid is. And unlike everyone else he is already a 3-4 backer in a pro system. IMO he should be a late first rounder who should go as high as top 15-20, but he will likely fall to a late second-mid 3rd. Whatever team he goes to will get a huge steal. I have an awful feeling that the Cowboys will draft him in the 3rd and he will haunt my Redskins for the next 10 years.

STARHEATHER
11-11-2008, 05:30 PM
stintim looked slow and overmatched vs usc. ui dont hate him, he just doesnt seem like the athlete for a high pick if i remember correctly

Babylon
11-11-2008, 05:50 PM
Brian Cushing = Brian Bosworth


Every time i click on this page this comparison pops up and it's just as funny now as it was a couple of weeks ago.

Babylon
11-11-2008, 05:55 PM
i think cushing got his first sack of the year this past week. anyway im liking jared odrick 6 5 308 jr from penn st. hes looking like a potential stud 3-4 end. he may not come out but hes one to watch. jared odrick 6 5 308

Cushing has 2.5 sacks for the year and he isnt an end so he isnt normally going after the QB.

STARHEATHER
11-11-2008, 06:55 PM
neither is sergio kindle with his 7 sacks and his 4.5 40 not his 2.5 sacks 4.7 40. he doesnt make any plays and is a substandard athlete. injury prone. hes not a great athlete, tight hipped, slow, bad feet. no pass rush skills. just never going to be a top nfl player.

Cigaro
11-11-2008, 07:37 PM
neither is sergio kindle with his 7 sacks and his 4.5 40 not his 2.5 sacks 4.7 40. he doesnt make any plays and is a substandard athlete. injury prone. hes not a great athlete, tight hipped, slow, bad feet. no pass rush skills. just never going to be a top nfl player.

Sergio Kindle plays a lot of defensive end, genius.

Babylon
11-11-2008, 07:48 PM
Sergio Kindle plays a lot of defensive end, genius.

Why do we even bother?

STARHEATHER
11-11-2008, 08:06 PM
i know he does both. because he can.

SuperKevin
11-11-2008, 08:10 PM
I retract my previous statement of Phillip Hunt being a good 3-4 OLB. I think his future is at DE much like Elvis Dumervil.

Pokeys
11-11-2008, 11:48 PM
3-4 I love Sintim, I think he projects into a good MLB. Purdue does a great job of producing pass rushers keep an eye on OLB Anthony Heygood.

Cigaro
11-12-2008, 06:28 AM
i know he does both. because he can.

So then why did you say he didn't end earlier?

And I hope you know Brian Cushing can play both as well. He did in 2006, because he can.

Ozzy
11-12-2008, 11:20 AM
Interesting thread, and out of the players I have seen play, if I had to make a list of the top 3/4 prospects, this would be it.

3/4 OLB
Brian Orakpo Texas 6-4 250
Mark Herzlich Boston College JR 6-4 240
George Selvie South Florida JR 6-4 245
Michael Johnson Georgia Tech 6-7 260
Sergio Kindle Texas JR 6-4 240
Greg Hardy Mississippi JR 6-4 265
Brian Cushing USC 6-3 255
Everette Brown Florida State JR 6-4 250
Larry English Northern Illinois 6-3 255
Eric Norwood South Carolina JR 6-1 253
Clay Matthews USC 6-3 240
Clint Sintim Virginia 6-3 254
Connor Barwin Cincinnati 6-4 240
Willie Young NC State JR 6-5 235
Moises Fokou Maryland 6-2 225
Diyral Briggs Bowling Green 6-4 230
Stryler Sulak Missouri 6-5 250
Ricky Sapp Clemson JR 6-4 240
Matthew Shaughnessy Wisconsin 6-6 250
Willie VanDeSteeg Minnesota 6-4 250
Tim Jamison Michigan 6-3 263
Kenny Ingram FSU 6-6 230
Zack Follet Cal 6-1 240
Ian Campbell Kansas State 6-5 230
Jamaal Westerman Rutgers 6-3 265
Gabe McKenzie Auburn JR 6-4 253
Steve Davis Minnesota 6-2 235
Trey Covington Maryland 6-3 240
Mack Frost Maryland 6-5 250


NT
B.J. Raji Boston College 6-1 325
Terrence Cody Alabama JR 6-5 365
Ron Brace Boston College 6-3 325
Evander Hood Missouri 6-4 295
Ra'Shon Harris Oregon 6-5 300
Antonio Dixon Miami FL 6-3 322


DE
Tyson Jackson LSU 6-5 290
Sen'Derrick Marks Auburn JR 6-2 295
Jeffrey Fitzgerald Kansas State JR 6-4 280
Peria Jerry Ole Miss 6-1 290
Robert Ayers Tennessee 6-3 270
Terrill Byrd Cincinnati 6-1 290
Zach Potter Nebraska 6-7 280
Mitch King Iowa 6-3 280
Mike Neal Purdue JR 6-4 293
Tyson Alualu Cal JR 6-3 290
Vance Walker Georgia Tech 6-2 290
George Hypolite Colorado 6-1 290
Jan Jorgensen BYU JR 6-3 274
Alex Magee Purdue 6-4 295
Brigham Harwell UCLA 6-1 280
Darryl Richard Georgia Tech 6-4 290
Tremaine Johnson LSU 6-2 280
Marcus Hands East Carolina 6-5 281
Michael Bennett Texas A&M 6-4 261


ILB
Rey Maualuga USC 6-3 250
James Laurinaitis Ohio St.
Gerald McRath Southern Miss 6-3 220
Dave Philistin Maryland 6-2 231
Anthony Felder California 6-3 240
Jasper Brinkley South Carolina 6-2 257
Scott McKillop Pitt 6-2 240
Maurice Crum Notre Dame 6-0 235
Joe Pawelek Baylor JR 6-3 240
Ronnie Palmer Arizona 6-3 245
Worrell Williams Cal 6-2 250
Robert Henson TCU 6-1 230
Darry Beckwith LSU 6-1 235
Glenn Cook Miami FL 6-0 230
Rashad Bobino Texas 5-11 230
Adam Leonard Hawaii 6-0 235
Mike Rivera Kansas 6-3 255
Joe Mortensen Kansas 6-1 250


Was fun making this list and projecting, there are some possible sleeper pickups at every position here. Some flat outstanding OLB pass rushers and depending on who comes out as juniors, could be a very deep class. Nonetheless, four or five of the top OLBs could also play DE in a classic 4/3








A few names to watch for in the future, all SOPH or FR prospects. Some real good young athletic pass rushers I must say, that SOPH class of DE/OLBs is outstanding

OLB
Dont'a Hightower Alabama FR
Aaron Maybin Penn State SOPH
Everson Griffen USC SOPH
Kevin Basped Nevada SOPH
Cliff Matthews South Carolina SOPH
Jason Worilds Virginia Tech SOPH
Greg Romeus Pitt SOPH
Thaddeus Gibson Ohio State SOPH


DE
Carlos Dunlap Florida SOPH
Cameron Heyward Ohio State SOPH
Brian Price UCLA SOPH
Colby Whitlock Texas Tech SOPH
Ugo Chinasa Oklahoma St. SOPH
Corbin Bryant Northwestern SOPH
Scooter Berry West Virginia SOPH


NT
Ladi Ajiboye South Carolina SOPH
Drake Nevis LSU SOPH

ILB
Rolando McClain Alabama SOPH
Obi Ezeh Michigan SOPH
Nate Irving NC State SOPH
Chris Galippo USC SOPH
Jacody Coleman Iowa SOPH

Ozzy
11-12-2008, 11:26 AM
Eaglesfan_45

Pannel Egboh, Stanford [6-6, 280]- physically clearly has the size, is he tough enough though?

Jeffrey Fitzgerald, Virginia [6-3, 279]- he transfered to Kansas State I believe, was great last year and yes he is a elite DE prospect in a 3/4

Terrence Taylor, Michigan [6-0, 319]- no way he should be this high, he is not a space eater like Raji is, does not take up blocks like a true NT should in my view.

Vince Oghobaase, Duke [6-6, 310]- never seen him play is he that good?

B.J. Raji, Boston College [6-1, 325]- he is the best space eater on this list easily

Jeff Owens, Georgia [6-1, 298]- always seems to underachieve to me

Ron Brace, Boston College [6-3, 325]- really having a great year but part of that has to do with Raji's great play.

Brian Cushing, USC [6-4, 245]- yes Cushing is a good 3/4 prospect, especially as a OLB opposite a dominating pass rusher, so he could play coverage or even ILB

Eric Moncur, Miami [6-3, 255]- way too high, there are by far more talented pass rushers around I feel that fit the mold better.

Everette Brown, Florida St. [6-4, 246]*
Willie Young, North Carolina St. [6-5, 243]- totally agree
Ian Campell, Kansas State [6-5, 245]

Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech [6-7, 256]- way too low, yes he is small but he is the absolute ideal OLB in a 3/4 with his size and speed

Antwain Robinson, Arkansas [6-3, 255]- kid caught my eye last year, have not seen him play yet this season.

Jan Jorgensen, BYU [6'3" 256]- did he lose 30 pounds? I had him as a DE prospect.

Eric Norwood, South Carolina [6-1, 270]- this low? Seriously? He is one of the best pass rushing OLBs in college right now.

Darry Beckwith, LSU [6-1, 235]- sad Beckwith is playing so bad this year, last year he was lights out, clearly Dorsey helped with that.
Tyrone McKenzie, South Florida [6-2. 235

CC.SD
11-12-2008, 11:45 AM
It pains me to say this about a fellow Trojan, but I do not see Cushing panning out, especially in a 3-4. He is a true warrior and has the mentality for the game, but his frame and injury concerns really bother me. I think his ideal fit may be weak side OLB so he can chase plays down from the backside and where he has a higher chance of coming off the edge untouched. If I were a GM, I couldn't bring myself to take him in the 1st, sadly.

Babylon
11-12-2008, 01:31 PM
It pains me to say this about a fellow Trojan, but I do not see Cushing panning out, especially in a 3-4. He is a true warrior and has the mentality for the game, but his frame and injury concerns really bother me. I think his ideal fit may be weak side OLB so he can chase plays down from the backside and where he has a higher chance of coming off the edge untouched. If I were a GM, I couldn't bring myself to take him in the 1st, sadly.

I like him outside in a 4-3, which is what a majority of teams play nowadays. He's shown this year that he can lineup over the TE and seems very good in coverage. If injuries are behind him, as it seems, i see his stock soaring after the combine and workouts. Thought he looked great against Cal.

Cigaro
11-12-2008, 03:40 PM
Ladi Ajiboye is a much better pass rusher than run stuffer, at least at this point in his career. No way he'd pan out as a 3-4 NT.

You've also got Dont'a Hightower listed as an outside linebacker. I'm almost certain he plays inside in Alabama's 3-4. Any reason why you moved him outside?

Burns336
11-12-2008, 04:59 PM
Very true I think people are severely underrating the absolute beast this kid is. And unlike everyone else he is already a 3-4 backer in a pro system. IMO he should be a late first rounder who should go as high as top 15-20, but he will likely fall to a late second-mid 3rd. Whatever team he goes to will get a huge steal. I have an awful feeling that the Cowboys will draft him in the 3rd and he will haunt my Redskins for the next 10 years.

I don't think you have to worry about that. Sadly, the Cowboys will keep Ellis around for another year to sit behind Spencer and Ware as a situational bum.

And with our 3rd rounder being our 2nd pick, I can't see us picking at a position where the player would strictly be a depth pick.

LT, NT, ILB, S, and even DE are all positions that we could use a lot of help in before looking at OLB.

keylime_5
11-12-2008, 05:15 PM
I don't see a team putting Cushing at OLB in a 3-4. He could play there, but it would be ideal to put him inside. Teams like to have great pass rushers at OLB, and while he can be a pretty good pass rusher, I don't think he has the skillset of a DE that will be a great 3-4 OLB pass rusher. He's a lot like Bobby Carpenter in that sense, though Bobby was a better pass rusher than Cushing. I think Cushing can be a pretty darn good ILB if he stays healthy.

ElectricEye
11-12-2008, 05:23 PM
I would NOT take Michael Johnson in the 3-4. I never saw that one. He's not the type of guy that can do that. Not only is it not a natural position for him, he also has technical problems playing end. Why take a guy who has problems grasping the technical aspect of the game and make it more technical for him?

Mr. Stiller
11-12-2008, 08:44 PM
Interesting thread, and out of the players I have seen play, if I had to make a list of the top 3/4 prospects, this would be it.

3/4 OLB
Brian Orakpo Texas 6-4 250
Mark Herzlich Boston College JR 6-4 240
George Selvie South Florida JR 6-4 245
Michael Johnson Georgia Tech 6-7 260
Sergio Kindle Texas JR 6-4 240
Greg Hardy Mississippi JR 6-4 265
Brian Cushing USC 6-3 255
Everette Brown Florida State JR 6-4 250
Larry English Northern Illinois 6-3 255
Eric Norwood South Carolina JR 6-1 253
Clay Matthews USC 6-3 240
Clint Sintim Virginia 6-3 254
Connor Barwin Cincinnati 6-4 240
Willie Young NC State JR 6-5 235
Moises Fokou Maryland 6-2 225
Diyral Briggs Bowling Green 6-4 230
Stryler Sulak Missouri 6-5 250
Ricky Sapp Clemson JR 6-4 240
Matthew Shaughnessy Wisconsin 6-6 250
Willie VanDeSteeg Minnesota 6-4 250
Tim Jamison Michigan 6-3 263
Kenny Ingram FSU 6-6 230
Zack Follet Cal 6-1 240
Ian Campbell Kansas State 6-5 230
Jamaal Westerman Rutgers 6-3 265
Gabe McKenzie Auburn JR 6-4 253
Steve Davis Minnesota 6-2 235
Trey Covington Maryland 6-3 240
Mack Frost Maryland 6-5 250

I really don't agree with your OLB Rankings but I really don't feel like doing mine.


NT
B.J. Raji Boston College 6-1 325
Terrence Cody Alabama JR 6-5 365
Ron Brace Boston College 6-3 325
Evander Hood Missouri 6-4 295
Ra'Shon Harris Oregon 6-5 300
Antonio Dixon Miami FL 6-3 322

1) I can't see Hood as a 3-4 NT, he's a better passrusher, put Ziggy at 3-4 DE, not his best fit, but better than NT.
2) Don't agree with Ra'Shon Harris either.
3) Roy Miller?
4) Raji is a great DT, but I just can't see him being best suited for a 3-4... He seems to do amazing things with a true 2 gapper next to him. I think Ron Brace should be getting more 3-4 love.


DE
Tyson Jackson LSU 6-5 290
Sen'Derrick Marks Auburn JR 6-2 295 ~ At 6'1?
Jeffrey Fitzgerald Kansas State JR 6-4 280
Peria Jerry Ole Miss 6-1 290 ~ See Marks
Robert Ayers Tennessee 6-3 270
Terrill Byrd Cincinnati 6-1 290 ~ Byrd has really sucked this year.
Zach Potter Nebraska 6-7 280
Mitch King Iowa 6-3 280
Mike Neal Purdue JR 6-4 293
Tyson Alualu Cal JR 6-3 290
Vance Walker Georgia Tech 6-2 290
George Hypolite Colorado 6-1 290
Jan Jorgensen BYU JR 6-3 274
Alex Magee Purdue 6-4 295
Brigham Harwell UCLA 6-1 280
Darryl Richard Georgia Tech 6-4 290
Tremaine Johnson LSU 6-2 280
Marcus Hands East Carolina 6-5 281
Michael Bennett Texas A&M 6-4 261

1) No Jared Odrick? Arthur Jones? I like that you nailed a couple picks, but I don't agree with Marks or Jerry as 3-4 DE's.. Strictly 4-3.

I think you have massively overrated Terrill Byrd.


ILB
Rey Maualuga USC 6-3 250
James Laurinaitis Ohio St.
Gerald McRath Southern Miss 6-3 220
Dave Philistin Maryland 6-2 231
Anthony Felder California 6-3 240
Jasper Brinkley South Carolina 6-2 257
Scott McKillop Pitt 6-2 240
Maurice Crum Notre Dame 6-0 235
Joe Pawelek Baylor JR 6-3 240
Ronnie Palmer Arizona 6-3 245
Worrell Williams Cal 6-2 250
Robert Henson TCU 6-1 230
Darry Beckwith LSU 6-1 235
Glenn Cook Miami FL 6-0 230
Rashad Bobino Texas 5-11 230
Adam Leonard Hawaii 6-0 235
Mike Rivera Kansas 6-3 255
Joe Mortensen Kansas 6-1 250

1) I can't see Laurinaitis, Crum, McKillop, Henson, Beckwith, Cook, Bobino in a 3-4. Laurinaitis is to me a bigger, more athletic Poz, Crum looks to be a Tampa 2 Backer. McKillop, though a tackling machine seems to me to be better in a 4-3 where he can attack the gaps and play sideline to sideline with 4 DL in front. I don't know why you put Henson, Beckwith, Cook or Bobino there. I can't imagine any of the 3 in there.

2) Philistin is a little high for my tastes, he has the tools but Erin Henderson was a better LB at Maryland and couldn't even get drafted.

Was fun making this list and projecting, there are some possible sleeper pickups at every position here. Some flat outstanding OLB pass rushers and depending on who comes out as juniors, could be a very deep class. Nonetheless, four or five of the top OLBs could also play DE in a classic 4/3








A few names to watch for in the future, all SOPH or FR prospects. Some real good young athletic pass rushers I must say, that SOPH class of DE/OLBs is outstanding

OLB
Dont'a Hightower Alabama FR
Aaron Maybin Penn State SOPH
Everson Griffen USC SOPH
Kevin Basped Nevada SOPH
Cliff Matthews South Carolina SOPH
Jason Worilds Virginia Tech SOPH
Greg Romeus Pitt SOPH
Thaddeus Gibson Ohio State SOPH


DE
Carlos Dunlap Florida SOPH
Cameron Heyward Ohio State SOPH
Brian Price UCLA SOPH
Colby Whitlock Texas Tech SOPH
Ugo Chinasa Oklahoma St. SOPH
Corbin Bryant Northwestern SOPH
Scooter Berry West Virginia SOPH


NT
Ladi Ajiboye South Carolina SOPH
Drake Nevis LSU SOPH

ILB
Rolando McClain Alabama SOPH
Obi Ezeh Michigan SOPH
Nate Irving NC State SOPH
Chris Galippo USC SOPH
Jacody Coleman Iowa SOPH

Obi Ezeh is going to be amazing, Opinions in blue.

STARHEATHER
11-12-2008, 08:48 PM
love odrick. he and jackson are the top 2 ends. i dont know if hes out or not. but i love it. odrick makes plays. and hes a huge dude

Mr. Stiller
11-12-2008, 08:53 PM
love odrick. he and jackson are the top 2 ends. i dont know if hes out or not. but i love it. odrick makes plays. and hes a huge dude

I love Odrick as a monster 3-4 DE but I think Arthur Jones is just as Good, can't go wrong with either.

6'5 295lbs.. If Jones played for a good program he'd be a much higher rated prospect.

The guy had 17.5 TFL's last season. He's not a great passrusher in statistical aspect, but he doesn't have Aaron Maybin, Maurice Evans on the edge either.

Can't go wrong with either guy.

STARHEATHER
11-12-2008, 08:57 PM
im going to have to check him out im unfamilliar. thanks for the info. i may claim it as my own at some point. seriously thanks. finding a 3-4 end is like hitting the pick 6 on breeders cup day. any lead is good. thanks

Sniper
11-12-2008, 09:29 PM
Obi Ezeh is going to be amazing, Opinions in blue.

If he learns to stop overpursuing and the art of pass coverage, he'll be good. Right now, he's very meh. Then again, it's only his second year playing LB.

Mr. Stiller
11-12-2008, 09:41 PM
If he learns to stop overpursuing and the art of pass coverage, he'll be good. Right now, he's very meh. Then again, it's only his second year playing LB.

For me, as a sophmore, I see a ton of potential and I remember getting to watch him a bit last year...

I think it was Michigan State and Ohio State where he just seemed to be everywhere.

I think he stays till he's a senior and I think a lot of Michigans struggles on defense was the loss of Ron English.

Ozzy
11-12-2008, 09:48 PM
Mr Stiller:

I agree Odrick is a beast but I think think he would be better as a 4/3 DT, and isn't he a junior this year?

Philistin is a tough linebacker and is fast and can really tackle in space, as for Erin Henderson he was not drafted because of "injury concerns" but the kid is in the NFL and should be for awhile, should develop into a starter or solid backup in time.

Crum is made for a 3/4 because he is kind of slow, he would be great in a 3/4, I could not see him in a 4/3 to be honest. Same with guys like Beckwith and Bobinio. Henson I have always liked, but yes might be a big small and not good enough defending the run. Cook I think could play any linebacker position really.


Yes Hood could be a 3/4 DE, and yes is not the ideal NT but I like how strong he is. As for Bryd, well based off last year he was great, a good athletic pass rushing DT, have I seen every game he played this year? No, but yes I might overrated him, I consider him a pass rushing thread at DT and thus could maybe become a DE in a 3/4.

However honestly, all 3/4 defenses are different and put different players in different spots. Some have the massive NT, some have just any solid DT play the NT spot. Some have big DEs that are massive, some have shorter guys who can rush the passer better. Some OLBs are small, some are beasts. Some OLBs are DEs who cannot play DE because they are too small, and some OLBs are just great pass rushers. Some ILBs could play anywhere on the field, and some 3/4 ILBs are kind of hidden at inside because they do not defend the pass well and the second ILB covers that up for them. So really does depend on the system and whos 3/4 defense it is.


As for Hightower, I have him as a potential OLB because I assume he will get bigger and stronger even, which is ridiculous. And I would love to see him attack the QB more, yes he plays middle right now but he is all over the field and could develop into a hell pass rusher off the edge with his strength potentially.


As for Raji, I just see him as a monster in the middle, which is what a NT should be in a 3/4. I think he can take on blocks and eat up blocks as good as anyone in college football right now. But yes most of these so called 3/4 prospects could play in a 4/3, only a few are stone cold 3/4 prospects and that is it.

Ozzy
11-12-2008, 10:12 PM
Going off my last comment that it depends on the style of 3/4 defense that is played...

The Cowboys, Marcus Spears was a sure fire DE in a 3/4 at his size and with his pass rushing ability, even played DE in college and was great at it. Same can be said for Chris Canty, he even dropped like a rock in the draft but is a classic 3/4 DE. Then you have Ware, the bull rushing, powerful, OLB/DE. Bobby Carpenter even was a standout 3/4 prospect because of his pass rushing history at Ohio State, and Anthony Spencer was a great speed rusher but was a tweener and really could only have been a OLB in a 3/4. But they have Carpenter on the inside and Bradie James a standout OLB playing inside as well.


Then you have the Patriots, they have a revolving door of OLBs, Vrabel is about as rare as you can get but he can get to the QB and is smart. Wood was nothing great on Michigan as a pass rusher but found his way on the team, then you have Thomas the prototype speed rusher in college with the physical size now. The DL is classic, beast converted DT in Seymour, and the monster in the middle with Wilfork and another converted DT in Warren at the other DE spot. At ILB they have talking machines young and old.

Last but not least the Steelers, who have the most no name DEs around but they get to the QB and are great pros. Then the big man in the middle who is just a load and is so physically strong. Physically the same weight and height as Raji, not comparing the two but just saying. Then they have standout ILBs, Foote was always small at ILB and too slow for outside but in a 3/4 he is great because Farrior covers up for him and allows him to make plays. Then you have Woodley another classic tweener, was shocked how little press he was getting and how far he dropped in the draft, such a great pass rusher. But now look at how good he is. Then they got Timmons who I just loved as a LB out of Florida State, such a speedy pass rusher with coverage ability. And yes supposedly Donovan Woods is on the Steelers at OLB, yes the former QB from Ok State that moved to LB. Clearly they like the athletic potential and quickness, even though he was nothing amazing at OLB last year and would not think he is a 3/4 LB but made the team.



So it is all up to the defense and what kind of players they plug into their 3/4 defense. Sure there are standards but then there are not. Thus that is why guys like Mark Herzlich I just love as a 3/4 OLB because he can do it all literally. And a guy like Kindle who is a bull off the edge could be a great OLB I feel.

Same with Larry English who has the quickness and Connor Barwin who has such great raw potential for the OLB 3/4 position and Moises Fokou, smaller but such a standout pass rusher at LB. And a few of the DEs I listed, have potential as pass rushing DEs, not the monster DEs some 3/4s have, but the pass rushing kind. However yes ideally we would all want Richard Seymour at DE in our 3/4 of course.

Mr. Stiller
11-12-2008, 10:12 PM
Mr Stiller:

I agree Odrick is a beast but I think think he would be better as a 4/3 DT, and isn't he a junior this year?

Yeah he's a junior as is Arthur Jones, but IIRC (Not looking) You did include some juniors.

Philistin is a tough linebacker and is fast and can really tackle in space, as for Erin Henderson he was not drafted because of "injury concerns" but the kid is in the NFL and should be for awhile, should develop into a starter or solid backup in time.

I'm not debating Philistin is a tough or fast linebacker or tackle in space.. but using that description he's better as a 4-3 MLB than a 3-4.. I just see him as Dqwell Jackson.. Fast, great play recognition, just not a fit for the 3-4

Crum is made for a 3/4 because he is kind of slow, he would be great in a 3/4, I could not see him in a 4/3 to be honest. Same with guys like Beckwith and Bobinio. Henson I have always liked, but yes might be a big small and not good enough defending the run. Cook I think could play any linebacker position really.

So all the requirements for playing 3-4 is slow? Crum is just too small.. 5'11 and 228lbs is not a 3-4 backer. He's better set for 4-3 OLB.

If Henson is "Small and not good enough defending the run" what makes you think he's 3-4 capable? Thats the primary description of a 3-4 ILB. Big enough and strong enough to shed blockers, stuff the run, with solid enough athleticism to be able to play your zones. Those guys at best would be Special teamers and possibly Nickel zone LB's on a 3-4 team.


Yes Hood could be a 3/4 DE, and yes is not the ideal NT but I like how strong he is.

Hood is better set for a 4-3 UT/NT Kind of like Bunkley, a guy who can passrush but can play the run, but again, strength aside his athleticism and his ability to get in the backfield outweigh his ability to hold the gaps.

As for Bryd, well based off last year he was great, a good athletic pass rushing DT, have I seen every game he played this year? No, but yes I might overrated him, I consider him a pass rushing thread at DT and thus could maybe become a DE in a 3/4.

Not every "Good passrushing" DT can play 3-4 end. I usually don't use the "Size" argument but part of the 3-4 DE's ability is to look into the backfield and diagnose the play.. @ 6'0/6'1 I can't see how well his play recognition is.

For a 3-4 DE you want a guy strong enough to play a gap more so than a passrush, the only team that really employs an all 1 gap DL is Dallas and I think it's more out of necessity than will. I'm not sure what Miami does, but with Parcells there I'm guessing it's the same.

NE runs a complete 2 Gap system for all 3 DL IIRC.

Pitt/SD/Cleveland(Though I don't know if they know it) seem to run a 2 Gap NT with a DE's playing 1 Gap or occasionally playing 2 gaps.

I don't think SF has the players to really run any set system up front.

In the Dallas Cowboys system I guess you could get away with Running 3 Passrushing DT's, but if you get too small of guys you have no one clogging the QB's vision. Which is another underrated thing for DL in General.

However honestly, all 3/4 defenses are different and put different players in different spots. Some have the massive NT, some have just any solid DT play the NT spot. Some have big DEs that are massive, some have shorter guys who can rush the passer better.

Who's 3-4 utilizes smaller DE's?

The shortest 3-4 DE is Shaun Smith at 6'2 and even then he's not a good DE..

I'm not saying "They have to" because there are exceptions to the rule, but it severely limits the defense and player to be that "Undersized".

Some OLBs are small, some are beasts. Some OLBs are DEs who cannot play DE because they are too small, and some OLBs are just great pass rushers. Some ILBs could play anywhere on the field, and some 3/4 ILBs are kind of hidden at inside because they do not defend the pass well and the second ILB covers that up for them. So really does depend on the system and whos 3/4 defense it is.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean anyone can fit into the system to cover up for it. Like I said about Crum and company.

If you suck as a run defender, you will be exploited in a 3-4. Not nearly as much in a 4-3. You can't hide deficiencies like that in a 3-4 without blitzing all the time.

I agree, some 3-4 ILB's are 2 down players and lack the athleticism in coverage.. But that doesn't mean anyone too small and slow and weak against the run fits in a 3-4... that's just extremely faulty logic.


As for Hightower, I have him as a potential OLB because I assume he will get bigger and stronger even, which is ridiculous. And I would love to see him attack the QB more, yes he plays middle right now but he is all over the field and could develop into a hell pass rusher off the edge with his strength potentially.

Who is Hightower? There is a huge difference between Blitzing the QB and "Passrushing"


As for Raji, I just see him as a monster in the middle, which is what a NT should be in a 3/4. I think he can take on blocks and eat up blocks as good as anyone in college football right now.

I agree, Raji is playing lights out, but I still think he's a better 4-3 NT. I think he benefits more from having a guy who can eat up blockers as well. I think Raji would be limited in a 3-4 NT role, just like Roy Miller. I think Brace is better suited for it.

But yes most of these so called 3/4 prospects could play in a 4/3, only a few are stone cold 3/4 prospects and that is it.

I agree, which is why I don't understand why you're trying to stuff so many guys into the 3-4 when they suck as it is in a 4-3. Granted some 4-3 DE's are too small to play DE in the pro's and get moved to a 3-4 system.. but the fact is when they're too small and slow to play in a 4-3 LB Cycle in the pro's what in god's name says they can do it with only 3 guys eating blocks?



Again Opinions in blue.

Ozzy
11-12-2008, 10:26 PM
Very true, guess I just assume at times when looking at all the prospects that any DT that can rush the passer might be a 3/4 DE. But yeah ideally one wants the big defensive ends, but Byrd and Harwell are the only two I listed who are shorter. Mitch King I think could be a great 3/4 DE potentially, and he is not huge.

As for Raji, yes he could do good it both but considering honestly there are very few real good NT types in college, he is one of the best there is in terms of big guys who can hold their ground in the middle.

Guys like Tyson Jackson has been pegged as a 3/4 DE his entire college career really, same can be said with Jeffery Fitzgerald the K-State DE formerly of Virginia. And yes I do agree the bigger guys are the better ones for sure at that position, again we all want Richard Seymour type guys there.

I was speaking of Donta Hightower, the physical beast of a freshman linebacker on Alabama


As for Crum, yes he is a little small but so are a few ILBs in 3/4 defenses. Crum is a standout run stopper and really is what he is best as, not amazing but he can fill the hole and stop the run. 3/4 cannot play OLB, cannot play ILB either because he is too slow really. So if Crum cannot play in a 3/4 I feel he might not be able to play. In my opinion no way in hell is he a Tampa two backer, just way to damn slow for that, no way that happens from what I have seen.

And yes Henson probably is not a good fit in a 3/4.

Mr. Stiller
11-12-2008, 10:36 PM
Going off my last comment that it depends on the style of 3/4 defense that is played...

The Cowboys, Marcus Spears was a sure fire DE in a 3/4 at his size and with his pass rushing ability, even played DE in college and was great at it. Same can be said for Chris Canty, he even dropped like a rock in the draft but is a classic 3/4 DE. Then you have Ware, the bull rushing, powerful, OLB/DE. Bobby Carpenter even was a standout 3/4 prospect because of his pass rushing history at Ohio State, and Anthony Spencer was a great speed rushing but was a tweener and really could only have been a OLB in a 3/4. But they have Carpenter on the inside and Bradie James a standout OLB playing inside as well.

There's going to be busts in every system.

Spears has been less than impressive.
Canty dropped more because he missed the last 7 games his Senior season with a torn ligament in his knee.
Carpenter was a stand out prospect because he looked like he could be a Mike Vrabel and ILB/OLB Guy. And with all the back and forth they went with him I think they ******** his progress. Not to mention that team was absolutely stacked.
I don't agree Spencer was an OLB only candidate. I think he could have been a solid SDE in a Tampa2, or Developed into a WDE in a standard 4-3.

The difference between OLB in a 4-3 and ILB in a 3-4 is not that huge. What do 3-4 ILB's do? They blitz (Just like OLB's), they attack the run, and play in coverage. The difference is how they sift through the traffic.

Larry Foote was a SLB For Michigan
Lawrence Timmons was a WLB for FSU
James Farrior was a WLB For Virginia



Then you have the Patriots, they have a revolving door of OLBs, Vrabel is about as rare as you can get but he can get to the QB and is smart. Wood was nothing great on Michigan as a pass rusher but found his way on the team, then you have Thomas the prototype speed rusher in college with the physical size. The DL is classic, beast converted DT in Seymour, and the monster in the middle with Wilfork and another converted DT in Warren at the other DE spot. At ILB they have talking machines young and old.

Yeah, because they play a 2 gap 3 DL system, and because of their DL their LB's are able to make plays, add to the fact that their HC is one of the smartest and best scheming coaches in the league.

Last but not least the Steelers, who have the most no name DEs around but they get to the QB and are great pros.

Aaron Smith is probably the best or 2nd best 3-4 DE in the league. Keisel isn't exactly a no-name, he's just not an elite player he fits the scheme perfectly.

Then the big man in the middle who is just a load and is so physically strong. Physically the same weight and height as Raji, not comparing the two but just saying.

The same height and weight are really where the similarities end, Hamptons Strength is way way better than Raji's coming out. Raji is a better 1 Gap tackle, Hampton is more like Brace.

Then they have standout ILBs, Foote was always small at ILB and too slow for outside but in a 3/4 he is great because Farrior covers up for him and allows him to make plays.

See this is the problem. Foote isn't "Too Small" Because Foote can shed blocks. The guys you listed for 4-3 aren't great block shedders. Foote is a 2 down ILB which is why we drafted Timmons. But Farrior doesn't cover for him, Foote still has to make plays.


Then you have Woodley another classic tweener, was shocked how little press he was getting and how far he dropped in the draft, such a great pass rusher. But now look at how good he is. Then they got Timmons who I just loved as a LB out of Florida State, such a speedy pass rusher with coverage ability.

Timmons is not a Passrusher in the traditional sense, he's made great plays in coverage (He was man coverage on the Bengals Chris Henry), but he's also a blitzer. When they bring him they usually overload a side because they know his speed is ridiculous. Timmons is also slated to become the new RILB.

And yes supposedly Donovan Woods is on the Steelers at OLB, yes the former QB from Ok State that moved to LB. Clearly they like the athletic potential and quickness, even though he was nothing amazing at OLB last year and would not think he is a 3/4 LB but made the team.

He's a special teamer only. He was cut and placed on the practice squad. Andre Frazier has a better chance of being in the rotation and thats only due to injuries. Woods has been awesome on ST's but Patrick Bailey has been amazing and is why Woods was cut.


So it is all up to the defense and what kind of players they plug into their 3/4 defense. Sure there are standards but then there are not. Thus that is why guys like Mark Herzlich I just love as a 3/4 OLB because he can do it all literally. And a guy like Kindle who is a bull off the edge could be a great OLB I feel.


Herzlich I'm a little iffy on because I haven't really focused on him. Kindle I like but not sold because I want more of a passrusher on the edge, Kindle has played DE but not fulltime, I'd need to see more.

Same with Larry English who has the quickness and Connor Barwin who has such great raw potential for the OLB 3/4 position and Moises Fokou, smaller but such a standout pass rusher at LB.

Larry English Also plays DE nearly Fulltime, same with Barwin.. which is why they're slated as 3-4 OLB's. Moises Fokou I haven't seen, but at the same time, I'm not saying there's a standard, but there's just some guys not cut out for the 3-4. The 3-4 you almost need the perfect fits or guys that can atleast have their niche, some of the guys you're naming off should never go to a 3-4 team because they'd never be more than a special teamer.

Blue daba dee daba dye-ah.

Sniper
11-12-2008, 10:37 PM
Thoughts on Ricky Jean-Francois in a 3-4?

Mr. Stiller
11-12-2008, 10:47 PM
Very true, guess I just assume at times when looking at all the prospects that any DT that can rush the passer might be a 3/4 DE. But yeah ideally one wants the big defensive ends, but Byrd and Harwell are the only two I listed who are shorter. Mitch King I think could be a great 3/4 DE potentially, and he is not huge.

No but when you look for a top notch 3-4 DE it's usually a Jumbo 3-4 DE or a bigger interior player with some athleticism.

I do really like Mitch King and wouldn't mind him in rotation for 3-4 DE as a situational passrusher on the strongside or rotational player on the Weakside.. but He's also an exception in my opinion, Just the way he plays is different. Byrd and Harwell aren't Mitch King like Exceptions.

As for Raji, yes he could do good it both but considering honestly there are very few real good NT types in college, he is one of the best there is in terms of big guys who can hold their ground in the middle.

There are, but thats why the best ones usually go round 1. But don't overlook guys like Kelly Gregg. You don't necessarily need a big prospect or big name, you just need a guy who's going to not complain about the gloryless position of 3-4 NT, get in there and contain your gaps, and require a double team. Raji is a guy who can hold his ground, but like I said, I think it's more because Ron Brace is almost the prototype 3-4NT, he's just a gap plugger.

Guys like Tyson Jackson has been pegged as a 3/4 DE his entire college career really, same can be said with Jeffery Fitzgerald the K-State DE formerly of Virginia. And yes I do agree the bigger guys are the better ones for sure at that position, again we all want Richard Seymour type guys there.

Sure we'd all love some Seymours, and yes those 2 have been pegged, Mostly because it's what they do now. Fitzy was a 3-4 DE at Virginia, Jackson usually faces double teams. Again I wasn't saying there wasn't exceptions, but a 6'0 UT that's struggling to do anything effective in the Big East is not someone I expect to be an exception.

I was speaking of Donta Hightower, the physical beast of a freshman linebacker on Alabama

I haven't really watched him. IIRC There was a freshman backer on Oklahoma who wasn't recruited as a LB and is beasting it up. I found him to be impressive.

As for Crum, yes he is a little small but so are a few ILBs in 3/4 defenses. Crum is a standout run stopper and really is what he is best as, not amazing but he can fill the hole and stop the run.

But he's also doing it in a 4-3, the question is, do you feel he can do it if he has to shed blocks? If you don't think he can, then he's not a good fit. There are small guys, but they usually bring something to the table..

Timmons, Rare athleticism, all around usefullness...
Foote, Block-shedding, run-stopping.
Mayo, sideline to sideline tackling and coverage
Dqwell Jackson.... Still waiting.

I don't see any attributes of Crum that I like in the 3-4.

3/4 cannot play OLB, cannot play ILB either because he is too slow really. So if Crum cannot play in a 3/4 I feel he might not be able to play. In my opinion no way in hell is he a Tampa two backer, just way to damn slow for that, no way that happens from what I have seen.

I don't see why Crum can't fit a Tampa2? It's not all about speed, I mean, straightline speed. If you can fit the Niche they require our of a LB, You should be able to play.

I can't see why Crum couldn't rotate in and develop for Indy/Detroit.

And yes Henson probably is not a good fit in a 3/4.

Yep, Don't like Henson or Beckwith for it. Blue.

Ozzy
11-12-2008, 10:48 PM
So really, let us take the Patriots for example, they have monster lineman up front that can take up blocks and all the linebackers behind them can basically do everything. They can cover, blitz and stop the run, all of them, some better than others but still.

With that being said then yes guys like Spikes, Ellerbe, McRath are all prospects for a 3/4 potentially, especially Spikes. Even McKillop, he could easily play in that type of system, might not be a monster blitzer but still. And to a lesser extent a guy like Brit Miller,

Then classic OLB prospects in a standard defense, guy like Curry could easily play ILB in a 3/4, even if it is not his strong suit. And even Bowman could be a ILB in a 3/4 because he can stone players when tackling and play well and space. Sean Lee is really the man, he can blitz, cover and stop the run, could play ILB too in that defense, but injured all this year and might come back next year I assume. Marcus Freeman too, he can do a lot of things, not all that well but could play ILB arguably in a 3/4 as well if one just considers LBs who can do it all. And the better pass rushers of the group play OLB.


Granted I am not some 3/4 guru here, just a prospect guru tries to look at every position ;)

Mr. Stiller
11-12-2008, 10:54 PM
Thoughts on Ricky Jean-Francois in a 3-4?

I didn't really watch him in the games I've watched of LSU because I was more focused on Jackson and the safety that is slipping my mind.

But he has the size 6'3-6'4 and girth... considered very athletic.. I wouldn't rule it out.

I do really like guys like...

Dorell Scott, Jared Odrick, Arthur Jones... I like Granger as well but he scares me.

Sniper
11-12-2008, 10:55 PM
I didn't really watch him in the games I've watched of LSU because I was more focused on Jackson and the safety that is slipping my mind.



Chad Jones???

Ozzy
11-12-2008, 10:57 PM
I agree, I love Brace, he is a great prospect but honestly I think he is playing so well because Raji is playing so well. Did not see Brace show up this much last year when Raji was not playing alongside him.

The Oklahoma LB I assume you are talking about is Lewis, he is a good looking young prospect but I feel there are better freshman LBs than him around. Lewis is a good player but pretty small, and not physically scary, but is fast. Ryan Reynolds on OU was playing great before he got injured.

Crum, I just cannot see it, Tampa 2 defense. I do not think he reads plays well enough of plays a all around game. He makes big hits in run defense but does not show up all over the field in coverage and making plays on the football outside of the run game. Safeties on Notre Dame make tackles he should be making. I like the guy but just not sure how he would do as a ILB in a 4/3 much less a Tampa two where he needs to cover a lot more. Who knows though, not like I want every snap of this guy though.

Mr. Stiller
11-12-2008, 11:02 PM
So really, let us take the Patriots for example, they have monster lineman up front that can take up blocks and all the linebackers behind them can basically do everything. They can cover, blitz and stop the run, all of them, some better than others but still.

But the effectiveness is the point. When you have a 3-4 the point is to disguise where the passrush is coming which leaves the LB's having to play coverage and stuff the run. Even with Big Defensive lines, there's no way you're going to keep a Guard from getting to one of the ILB's. Meaning, if you have a guy thats going to get constantly taken out of every play, you have a liability.

With that being said then yes guys like Spikes, Ellerbe, McRath are all prospects for a 3/4 potentially, especially Spikes. Even McKillop, he could easily play in that type of system, might not be a monster blitzer but still. And to a lesser extent a guy like Brit Miller,

That isn't my point with McKillop. I live pretty close to Pittsburgh and I'm a fan so I watch them often. I see McKillop in the same mold of Laurinaitis/Posluzsny... Guys that would be reliable tackling machines in the middle of a 4-3. I just can't see them in a 3-4 because they do their best diagnosing the play and not worrying about having to shed blocks. If you watch McKillop, he does average at best shedding blocks, but does his best flowing to the ball, which you can't really do in a 3-4 because you usually contain an area.. if the LILB Crosses over the RILB and the LOLB Is rushing, you just gave up half the field.

Then classic OLB prospects in a standard defense, guy like Curry could easily play ILB in a 3/4, even if it is not his strong suit.

Curry could possibly do it because he has rare athleticism, but not because he's a fit. The top 3-4 ILBs would probably be Maualaga and Sintim. IMO.


And even Bowman could be a ILB in a 3/4 because he can stone players when tackling and play well and space. Sean Lee is really the man, he can blitz, cover and stop the run, could play ILB too in that defense, but injured all this year and might come back next year I assume. Marcus Freeman too, he can do a lot of things, not all that well but could play ILB arguably in a 3/4 as well if one just considers LBs who can do it all. And the better pass rushers of the group play OLB.

But now your saying that playing with a 2 gap DL is essentially playing with 4 DL, it's not, you're still missing a body up front to take another defender away from attacking your linebackers.. Lee and Freeman I just can't see in a 3-4, because they're way better in a 4-3 IMO. Both are solid in coverage, but don't really "Bring" anything. I haven't focused on Bowman.


Granted I am not some 3/4 guru here, just a prospect guru tries to look at every position ;)

Blue.............

Mr. Stiller
11-12-2008, 11:17 PM
I agree, I love Brace, he is a great prospect but honestly I think he is playing so well because Raji is playing so well. Did not see Brace show up this much last year when Raji was not playing alongside him.

But that could be because Brace takes up 2 blockers more often from what I've seen. Thats a thing about 3-4 NT's, usually their stats suck because they maybe average 1-3 Tackles a game, because they're busy freeing up the LB's to do what they can.

The Oklahoma LB I assume you are talking about is Lewis, he is a good looking young prospect but I feel there are better freshman LBs than him around. Lewis is a good player but pretty small, and not physically scary, but is fast. Ryan Reynolds on OU was playing great before he got injured.

that sounds about right. I didn't necessarily say he fit the 3-4, I was just saying I thought he was very good watching him. After watching Lofton of OU Last year I thought he'd be an awesome fit although he was only like 6'0 235lbs or something like that, because his style of play, not because he was too small.

Crum, I just cannot see it, Tampa 2 defense. I do not think he reads plays well enough of plays a all around game. He makes big hits in run defense but does not show up all over the field in coverage and making plays on the football outside of the run game. Safeties on Notre Dame make tackles he should be making. I like the guy but just not sure how he would do as a ILB in a 4/3 much less a Tampa two where he needs to cover a lot more. Who knows though, not like I want every snap of this guy though.

The point is Tampa2 is a zone based offense. He is a 6th-7th rounder At best in my eyes right now. He's a developmental prospect.

Jordon Dizon went round 2 and he wasn't exactly the fastest LB at the combine at 6'0 229. I'm figuring Crum will be around 5'11 235lbs and run in the high 4.7's low 4.8's. and the fact remains, it's his 10 and 20 yard splits to watch. That'll show his explosiveness.... Ali Highsmith ran a 4.95, didn't get drafted and was working his way supposedly into the WLB Rotation.. his 10/20 yard splits were 1.59 and 2.76 respectively which put him on par with guys like Dizon, Lofton, Mayo, Wheeler, Henderson, Bowen.. ('07).. Poz, Beason, Harris, Siler...

The only guys that 40 times really matter for in my opinion is RB/WR/CB's.

Those are the only guys that would really run 40 yards often.

Safeties are usually deep and only have to run to a Pass (if it's a big pass, usually it's in the air 3-5 seconds.. and they have to cover about 20-30 yards)..

LB's/DE's ( 3-4 OLBS) I usually really take a look at their 10/20 yard splits.. if your OLB/DE is running 40 yards, it likely doesn't matter how fast he can do it, it's already a huge play.



BLUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Sniper
11-12-2008, 11:21 PM
BLUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

If you put [quote] [quote] with a / before the q in the second one around something, it makes multiple quotes, instead of having to use blue. Just FYI.

Mr. Stiller
11-12-2008, 11:25 PM
If you put [quote] [quote] with a / before the q in the second one around something, it makes multiple quotes, instead of having to use blue. Just FYI.

Nah I know that, I just figure instead of having multiple broken quote boxes drives me nuts, and I like Blue.

Mr. Stiller
11-12-2008, 11:27 PM
3-4 I love Sintim, I think he projects into a good MLB. Purdue does a great job of producing pass rushers keep an eye on OLB Anthony Heygood.

I like Sintim as an ILB as well.

I don't get why Purdue produces good passrushers..

Phillips is a byproduct of Merriman..

Spencer hasn't done anything..

and I still believe Avril would've been a better LB situational passrusher than a DE.

Ozzy
11-12-2008, 11:36 PM
A 3/4 prospect bonanza is on ESPNU right now, at least in the North central part of America ;)

Ozzy
11-13-2008, 12:13 AM
Mr. Stiller:

Agreed on the 40 time, it is quite overrated, however it will make a prospects stock drop like a rock or could make a prospects stock shoot up like a rocket. But yes in the end at certain position it does not mean much. In terms of Crum though I am talking about his lack in making plays all over the field, that is why I say he is slow because he does not seem to be around the ball as much as he should be and does not make as many open field solo tackles as he should. But yeah as a project he is pretty sound.


As for the Purdue pass rushers, good call it is in a way just a lot of hype even though year after year they always had one.

and I still believe Avril would've been a better LB situational passrusher than a DE.Oh of course, totally agree, she cannot hold up against the run that well, really honestly quite surprised a 3/4 team did not pick her up ;) Joking aside, agreed.

Mr. Stiller
11-13-2008, 12:19 AM
Mr. Stiller:

Agreed on the 40 time, it is quite overrated, however it will make a prospects stock drop like a rock or could make a prospects stock shoot up like a rocket. But yes in the end at certain position it does not mean much. In terms of Crum though I am talking about his lack in making plays all over the field, that is why I say he is slow because he does not seem to be around the ball as much as he should be and does not make as many open field solo tackles as he should. But yeah as a project he is pretty sound.


As for the Purdue pass rushers, good call it is in a way just a lot of hype even though year after year they always had one.

Oh of course, totally agree, she cannot hold up against the run that well, really honestly quite surprised a 3/4 team did not pick her up ;) Joking aside, agreed.

:)..

I'd make the same comment about Penn State being "Linebacker U"..

Who have they really produced? Lavar Arrington couldn't stay healthy to be the elite player he could have been..

Poz is a solid player, but nothing amazing.

Connor was said to be better, but I didn't see it..

Lee is more athletic than both of them.. but.. I still don't see it...

LB U Would probably IMO have to go to Miami or Michigan IMO...

Michigan kinda wins the battle because they seemingly put more talent at LB in the NFL.

Sniper
11-13-2008, 06:30 AM
:)..

I'd make the same comment about Penn State being "Linebacker U"..

Who have they really produced? Lavar Arrington couldn't stay healthy to be the elite player he could have been..

Poz is a solid player, but nothing amazing.

Connor was said to be better, but I didn't see it..

Lee is more athletic than both of them.. but.. I still don't see it...

LB U Would probably IMO have to go to Miami or Michigan IMO...

Michigan kinda wins the battle because they seemingly put more talent at LB in the NFL.

Linebacker U is just an old-school moniker for PSU. And even though their LBs haven't been great in the pros (some of them), it doesn't discount that they're straight-up beasts in college. Ohio State is starting to make a serious claim to being LB U, but I just don't see it for Michigan.

Ozzy
11-13-2008, 08:41 AM
The ¾ bonanza on TV last night was the replay of Cal vs. USC. And after having discussed things on this board made me see things a little different and actually move some guys up in terms of rankings at different positions. Cal as most know made the switch to a 3/4, and honestly it had to be because of their personnel. I do not think it is luck they have so many fine ¾ prospects. Then you have USC who arguably plays a ¾ but just does not technically call it that. Because they blitz linebackers all over the place and do drop defensive ends in coverage on a zone blitz.

Cal
Worrell Williams SR ILB 6-0 250
Zack Follet SR OLB 6-1 238
Anthony Felder SR ILB 6-3 235
Tyson Alualu JR DE 6-3 290
Michael Mohamed SOPH ILB 6-3 225
Rulon Davis Cal SR DE 6-4 281
Cameron Jordan SOPH DE 6-4 286

USC
Brian Cushing SR OLB 6-3 255
Fili Moala SR DE 6-5 295
Rey Maualuga SR ILB 6-2 260
Clay Matthews SR OLB 6-3 240
Everson Griffin SOPH OLB 6-3 265
Kyle Moore SR DE 6-6 270
Christian Tupou SOPH DE 6-2 280
Kaluka Maiava SR ILB 6-0 230


After watching Cal I am even more impressed with Worrell Williams, and no not because he is DJ Williams brother, because he is so physically stout, really built linebacker and could possibly do great things in a ¾. Then you have Zollet who is small, but is just a special pass rusher, will see if his size does not hinder his ability to play in a classic ¾ because at times he does not take on blockers well. Rulon Davis could play in a ¾ however he is almost the only prospect on Cal’s defense this year that is hurt by playing in a ¾ because I think he has the power and speed to play in a 4/3 and possibly be better at it. Alualu is the obvious at his size at DE, really good looking player and plays much faster than most players 290. Mohamed is the only young one of the group though, he is talented and will be interesting to see if they stay in a ¾ when most of their personnel will leave because of graduation.



Then USC, first off I hate it when people say Cushing cannot play in a ¾, what the hell are they talking about. The kid is a wonderful blitzing linebacker, he can take on blocks and really get after the QB. He is flat out standout in coverage and is very smart. Why can he not play in a ¾, only reason is he is a little light in the seat, very top heavy if you just look at him, but seriously the kid can pass rush and is wonderful in coverage and would be a great addition to any ¾ team. Now he is not a Terrell Suggs, and no he is not that big but that does not matter, he can do it. Either way he will really surprised people, people must just hate the kid because they are tired of hearing how great he is or something, who knows. Then you have Rey, who is almost a sure fire ¾ ILB, I almost doubt now he will do anything different because he is great at blitzing, fast and strong, but he is so stiff in coverage and not the most technically sound player, a ¾ would be just great for him and I have a hard time seeing him ever being a 4/3 ILB. Moala now seems like a perfect potential DE, but could do both depends on what the team wants and Matthews is outstanding off the edge as well. Griffin I think could maybe develop into a speed outside pass rusher, but then again he could play in a 4/3 just as easily. And Kyle Moore physically could play DE, but he does not have ideal weight and really is not athletic enough to play OLB.

Two very good teams littered with ¾ prospects though, how lovely that it was on last night.

keylime_5
11-13-2008, 08:53 AM
like I said, the teams who employ 3-4 defenses in the NFL would prefer to put Cushing at ILB not OLB in a 3-4. He has more upside at that spot with his size and instincts and inside linebackers who can blitz makes the 3-4 defense even more effective at what it does best, disguise blitzes and apply pressure from all over.

Ozzy
11-13-2008, 08:55 AM
keylime_5 like I said, the teams who employ 3-4 defenses in the NFL would prefer to put Cushing at ILB not OLB in a 3-4. He has more upside at that spot with his size and instincts and inside linebackers who can blitz makes the 3-4 defense even more effective at what it does best, disguise blitzes and apply pressure from all over.Oh I totally agree with that, completely he could play ILB. Either way, I am tired of some people saying he cannot play in a 3/4 of saying he cannot play, because the kid simply can and is a stud prospect.

Mr. Stiller
11-13-2008, 09:15 AM
Linebacker U is just an old-school moniker for PSU. And even though their LBs haven't been great in the pros (some of them), it doesn't discount that they're straight-up beasts in college. Ohio State is starting to make a serious claim to being LB U, but I just don't see it for Michigan.

I was doing overall Pro talent..

You have:

Burgess, Crable, Woodley, Harris... Just off the top of my head..

You have Ezeh, Jamison and Brandon Graham who all have potential to be top notch OLB's (Though I'm iffy on Jamison)..

Not to mention Mouton and Evans who look like they have some future in the NFL.. Maybe not a lot but some.

Mr. Stiller
11-13-2008, 09:17 AM
like I said, the teams who employ 3-4 defenses in the NFL would prefer to put Cushing at ILB not OLB in a 3-4. He has more upside at that spot with his size and instincts and inside linebackers who can blitz makes the 3-4 defense even more effective at what it does best, disguise blitzes and apply pressure from all over.

I'm still split. He just reminds me of Mike Vrabel.

He could probably play inside or out. I don't think he has Vrabel's first step, but I think with some work he could.

Perhaps Clay Matthews is better suited as a 3-4 Backer from USC (And Griffen of course) but I don't want to say Cushing couldn't.

keylime_5
11-13-2008, 11:28 AM
vrabel was a stud DE in college and set the school record for sacks. I know he had 14 his senior year. Cushing is much closer to linebacker than DE and in the NFL you want your tweeners preferrably to be closer to DE than LB in terms of skillset. I don't see a team drafting Cushing to be a longterm solution at OLB in that kind of defense.


as far as the whole linebacker u thing, I think way back when penn state starting calling themselves linebacker u it was pretty much accepted that they were really linebacker u no brainer. As of 2008 I think USC and Ohio State might be just as good or better at making great linebackers so it kinda sounds silly unless you look at the history.

bored of education
11-13-2008, 11:34 AM
Some names I think could fit in 3-4 D's ( I havent read thread)

Kenny Mainor out of Troy at OLB
Anthony Felder/Cal as a BUck
Ian Campbell could play anywhere as LB in a 3-4


Could Dorell Scott play DE???

ElectricEye
11-13-2008, 11:55 AM
vrabel was a stud DE in college and set the school record for sacks. I know he had 14 his senior year. Cushing is much closer to linebacker than DE and in the NFL you want your tweeners preferrably to be closer to DE than LB in terms of skillset. I don't see a team drafting Cushing to be a longterm solution at OLB in that kind of defense.

I agree with that. Cushing is a good pass rusher, but I'm not sure he would bring the presence required to be a rush backer in a 3-4. He would be much more effective inside and moving outside occasionally, making use of his versatile skillset.

bored of education
11-13-2008, 12:33 PM
William VanDeSteeg. He might be better suited in a 4-3 but I could see him being a 3-4 OLB for sure.

Babylon
11-13-2008, 01:11 PM
I agree with that. Cushing is a good pass rusher, but I'm not sure he would bring the presence required to be a rush backer in a 3-4. He would be much more effective inside and moving outside occasionally, making use of his versatile skillset.


I like him better outside in a 4-3 (isnt that what the Giants play?). The year he played DE at USC he had some success but i dont think he is a natural pass rusher. What i like about him is his pass coverage ability.

ElectricEye
11-13-2008, 01:37 PM
I don't think he's a natural pass rusher either. He moves like a linebacker. Doesn't have the first step of a defensive end or the explosiveness off the edge either. That's not to say he's slow...he just doesn't rush naturally. He's capable of putting up 5 sacks a year or so if you put him there though.

He would be pretty good as a strongside guy in a 4-3, but I think that's kinda wasting a few of the things he can do. Putting him in the 3-4, where he can blitz and move around as well as cover is ideal, IMO.

Babylon
11-13-2008, 01:41 PM
I don't think he's a natural pass rusher either. He moves like a linebacker. Doesn't have the first step of a defensive end or the explosiveness off the edge either. That's not to say he's slow...he just doesn't rush naturally. He's capable of putting up 5 sacks a year or so if you put him there though.

He would be pretty good as a strongside guy in a 4-3, but I think that's kinda wasting a few of the things he can do. Putting him in the 3-4, where he can blitz and move around as well as cover is ideal, IMO.

No doubt, i think if he hadnt had that high ankle sprain early on last season we might be talking about a fairly high pick in this draft.

ElectricEye
11-13-2008, 01:47 PM
Where he goes is still kinda up in the air at this point. I think most everyone thinks he's a first round pick, but I've seen him go in some very different spots. I'm kinda liking him more and more as the season goes on. I could see him going in the 15-20 range by the time everything is said and done, depending on how well he tests. Shouldn't have much of a problem with that either. He's a pretty athletic guy.

Burns336
11-15-2008, 08:27 PM
I've noticed Fili Moala has fallen off of the map a bit, he's having a good game against Stanford, where does everyone see him ending up?

Thoughts on him being able to handle NT?

Mr. Stiller
11-15-2008, 09:11 PM
I've noticed Fili Moala has fallen off of the map a bit, he's having a good game against Stanford, where does everyone see him ending up?

Thoughts on him being able to handle NT?

Is there really any talent on the offensive side of Stanford right now?

STARHEATHER
11-16-2008, 11:14 AM
you could have asked the same question. is there any defensive talent on usc? cushing and maaluga aare awful. missing tackles everywhere, getting run over.moala was getting pushed all over the place. mays wimped out on several tackles and couldnt tackle toby gearhart mano a mano. cushing has 2.5 sacks. hes not playing olb in the 3-4. his injury riddled career and limited ability make him a mid rd prospect at best. these guys were getting physically manhandled by stanford. i just cant fathom how bad these guys are going to bust. players that get physcially dominated by those cake eaters stand no chance at the nfl level. they are less physical than stanford. they are as joey porter stated "a soft bunch".

Babylon
11-16-2008, 12:49 PM
you could have asked the same question. is there any defensive talent on usc? cushing and maaluga aare awful. missing tackles everywhere, getting run over.moala was getting pushed all over the place. mays wimped out on several tackles and couldnt tackle toby gearhart mano a mano. cushing has 2.5 sacks. hes not playing olb in the 3-4. his injury riddled career and limited ability make him a mid rd prospect at best. these guys were getting physically manhandled by stanford. i just cant fathom how bad these guys are going to bust. players that get physcially dominated by those cake eaters stand no chance at the nfl level. they are less physical than stanford. they are as joey porter stated "a soft bunch".

Good to see you weighing in with your weekly bashing of USC defenders. Here's the thing, guys like Cushing, Maualuga and Mays are playing better than they have all year especially Cushing. I'm not sure i've seen a better backer than Cushing in about a month. You lose your credibility when you bash guys that are playing well.

TACKLE
11-16-2008, 03:53 PM
I've noticed Fili Moala has fallen off of the map a bit, he's having a good game against Stanford, where does everyone see him ending up?

Thoughts on him being able to handle NT?

Definitely Not. He is a perfect fit as a DE in a 3-4. He has the right size and moves well enough to be a very successful 5-technique.

Mr. Stiller
11-16-2008, 05:29 PM
Fili Maola = Shaun Cody

Mr. Stiller
11-16-2008, 05:34 PM
you could have asked the same question. is there any defensive talent on usc? cushing and maaluga aare awful. missing tackles everywhere, getting run over.moala was getting pushed all over the place. mays wimped out on several tackles and couldnt tackle toby gearhart mano a mano. cushing has 2.5 sacks. hes not playing olb in the 3-4. his injury riddled career and limited ability make him a mid rd prospect at best. these guys were getting physically manhandled by stanford. i just cant fathom how bad these guys are going to bust. players that get physcially dominated by those cake eaters stand no chance at the nfl level. they are less physical than stanford. they are as joey porter stated "a soft bunch".

Cushing is being considered for SILB in a 3-4.

Again, when you say that someone played terrible against a team... I just think back about how you brag about CJ Spiller... then act like him getting 0 yards against Alabama is ok...

.. Spiller has gotten only 70+ Yards in 3 games this season...

But, I get you, if you say they're terrible prospects based on horrendous logic how could you be wrong.

STARHEATHER
11-16-2008, 07:12 PM
everyones going to remember where they heard it first. bottom line is, stanford was kicking the crap out of them. and it wasn the finesse game either. they were going hat on hat and they were taking them right down the field right up the gut right at maaluga and down his throat. it was beautiful. one play was particualarly bad stanfords qb who wasn tall that much of an athlete ran q qb draw maaluga came right at him unblocked and just flailed on the ground didnt even get near him as he broke a 50 yd run. now replace that stanford qb with adrian peterson and expect maaluga to get him down in space let alone shed a block and get him down. so bad. so terribly terribly terribly bad. then on a 3rd and 1 from the 20 they handed off to gearhart who isnt very good and maaluga came untouched in the hole to blow up the play and gearhart ran through his tackle and got the first. its plays like that you see every single game from maaluga. hes a tackle missing machine. and hes a soft player and hes slow and unathletic. this dude is nothing but a pr creation.

STARHEATHER
11-16-2008, 07:13 PM
a lot of people have gotten 0 yds vs bama. but he is making all kinds of big plays, which is his thing. maalugas thing is getting run over.

Zyro_1014
11-16-2008, 07:19 PM
a lot of people have gotten 0 yds vs bama. but he is making all kinds of big plays, which is his thing. maalugas thing is getting run over.

get off his jock, seems like you just have a grudge against anyone who goes to SC.

are you a UCLA fan or somethin?

renegade
11-16-2008, 07:19 PM
everyones going to remember where they heard it first. bottom line is, stanford was kicking the crap out of them. and it wasn the finesse game either. they were going hat on hat and they were taking them right down the field right up the gut right at maaluga and down his throat. it was beautiful. one play was particualarly bad stanfords qb who wasn tall that much of an athlete ran q qb draw maaluga came right at him unblocked and just flailed on the ground didnt even get near him as he broke a 50 yd run. now replace that stanford qb with adrian peterson and expect maaluga to get him down in space let alone shed a block and get him down. so bad. so terribly terribly terribly bad. then on a 3rd and 1 from the 20 they handed off to gearhart who isnt very good and maaluga came untouched in the hole to blow up the play and gearhart ran through his tackle and got the first. its plays like that you see every single game from maaluga. hes a tackle missing machine. and hes a soft player and hes slow and unathletic. this dude is nothing but a pr creation.

Wow dude, that Stanford team is actually really good. Sorry they aren't a powerhouse but don't degrade them, they have good talent and are a physical team.

STARHEATHER
11-16-2008, 07:28 PM
no they are not really good. they are not good at all. they are a soft team. just not softer than usc

Bruce Banner
11-16-2008, 07:31 PM
Star, what do you know of show tunes?

STARHEATHER
11-16-2008, 07:33 PM
i know that they suck

Bruce Banner
11-16-2008, 07:35 PM
i know that they suck

Thanks for the clarification. Just touching base.

james.mcmurry
11-16-2008, 08:01 PM
How about Terrence "Mount" Cody at NT? He is my #1 nose, even if he is a bit tall. Height doesn't seem to hurt Haloti Ngata.

Zyro_1014
11-16-2008, 09:13 PM
i know that they suck

your attitude sucks....

tisk tisk!

Mr. Stiller
11-16-2008, 10:58 PM
How about Terrence "Mount" Cody at NT? He is my #1 nose, even if he is a bit tall. Height doesn't seem to hurt Haloti Ngata.

Gregg is Baltimores Nose, If not him isn't it Bannon?

Ngata is playing 3-4 DE and UT for them.

Cody is an excellent NT prospect. He just needs to get in better shape and needs some technique work.

D-Unit
11-30-2008, 02:59 AM
Georgia's Kade Weston... Is he someone I'm missing? I saw him play today against Georgia Tech and he opened my eyes! At 6-5, 325... he sure looked strong and athletic! Someone tell me more about him! I know he's just a junior and probably won't declare, but dayum... I think people will be talking about him more next year.

SuperKevin
11-30-2008, 04:00 AM
Georgia's Kade Weston... Is he someone I'm missing? I saw him play today against Georgia Tech and he opened my eyes! At 6-5, 325... he sure looked strong and athletic! Someone tell me more about him! I know he's just a junior and probably won't declare, but dayum... I think people will be talking about him more next year.

Problem is he might not be starting next year with Owens and Atkins coming back. That's one deep DT rotation

renegade
11-30-2008, 04:07 AM
Problem is he might not be starting next year with Owens and Atkins coming back. That's one deep DT rotation

I read that Owens doesn't know he will go back. He isn't sure if he will take the medical redshirt or pull a Micheal Bush. So it isn't garunteed, however IMO he should stay.