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View Full Version : could a new CBA prompt more juniors to declare?


Big_Pete
06-23-2008, 09:18 PM
I know there was 50 or juniors declared for the 2008 draft and I expecting much the same next year.

I have been considering the CBA agreement,

One of the major sticking points that both owners and players have is the high money being paid to top draft picks compered to top veterans.

There is still alot of work to be done with a new CBA; but the earliest it could probably come into effect is 2010; that is assuming there is some agreement later this year or early next year.

It seems likely that any new CBA will include some kind on limit on rookie salaries. If that happens (or even people believe it may happen), could this prompt more rookies than ususual to declare for the 2009 draft (and try and cash in on the current situation)?

Bruce Banner
06-23-2008, 09:28 PM
Brilliant thinking. No sarcasm, I'm serious.
This awaited CBA deal will force more juniors to leave this year....its that simple, you have already stated why. Unless the players are confident that a deal won't be done.

Hwoarang
06-23-2008, 09:57 PM
New CBA should be just like the NBA. And i'm serious.

Bruce Banner
06-23-2008, 10:01 PM
New CBA should be just like the NBA. And i'm serious.

For sure. Think about it. The #1 pick of the NBA draft makes pennies (compared to the stars), and the rest of the drafted players make pennies. What makes it genius is that these contracts allow for an extension heading into the third or fourth year. It is a system that forces top picks and low picks alike to push themselves towards success...and that second contract. Then the second contract has an opt out clause that allows the players to opt out in their prime and get the last major deal of their careers.

Hokie_Pokie08
06-24-2008, 12:39 AM
New CBA should be just like the NBA. And i'm serious.

the nfl owners would never accept the nba's cba as a mirror for the nfl. i don't see them wanting players having guaranteed contracts anytime soon.

Bruce Banner
06-24-2008, 12:45 AM
the nfl owners would never accept the nba's cba as a mirror for the nfl. i don't see them wanting players having guaranteed contracts anytime soon.

I think he meant rookie structure.

wicket
06-24-2008, 02:55 AM
For sure. Think about it. The #1 pick of the NBA draft makes pennies (compared to the stars), and the rest of the drafted players make pennies. What makes it genius is that these contracts allow for an extension heading into the third or fourth year. It is a system that forces top picks and low picks alike to push themselves towards success...and that second contract. Then the second contract has an opt out clause that allows the players to opt out in their prime and get the last major deal of their careers.

The problem in this structure is that players get hurt in football way more, since they only earn that much a early career ending injury would sent even top picks in financial trouble, something I think needn't be the case. I'd suggest the same plan as you have but with a substantial draft position bonus

Bruce Banner
06-24-2008, 03:18 AM
The problem in this structure is that players get hurt in football way more, since they only earn that much a early career ending injury would sent even top picks in financial trouble, something I think needn't be the case. I'd suggest the same plan as you have but with a substantial draft position bonus

1. Then leave as a senior after you get a degree. A decent backup plan. (preferably not in communication or sociology)
2. The bonus should be the same for every player at every round and pick. The whole point of the draft should be getting the players' rights and talents. No financial implications should have to be compensated for. This makes the players earn their salaries instead of being instantly rewarded for their college production, which might not translate at all.

Hokie_Pokie08
06-24-2008, 07:29 AM
I think he meant rookie structure.

the player's union would never agree to a rookie cap unless the contracts became guaranteed. it is a see-saw and to arrive at a balance (nba cba) both points would have to be met; the rookie cap and guaranteed contracts.

Smokey Joe
06-24-2008, 07:29 AM
The problem in this structure is that players get hurt in football way more, since they only earn that much a early career ending injury would sent even top picks in financial trouble, something I think needn't be the case. I'd suggest the same plan as you have but with a substantial draft position bonus
Oh come on. First round picks will still make millions in bonus money. Just not as much.

So, in your way of thinking, every single player drafted should get at least a million, so if they get injured and have to leave the nfl, they have support? I'm sorry, but that's just stupid. No one is pointing a gun to these guys heads, they don't have to go into the NFL before they get their degree, etc. It sucks, but injuries happen, and you can't be making contracts expecting players to get career ending injuries.

Brent
06-24-2008, 07:31 AM
(preferably not in communication or sociology)
every school has an easy degree like those. my school has "Ag Leadership", for example.

Smokey Joe
06-24-2008, 07:33 AM
Also, I don't think this will lead to more juniors declaring. I could see more of the top juniors declaring, but I don't see more juniors all together declaring. This is because any sort of limit on rookie contracts will likely just effect the top draft picks. Outside of the 1st round, the contracts are pretty reasonable.

Geo
06-24-2008, 10:44 AM
Well without a new CBA, starting in 2010 players will have to have served 6 accrued seasons before becoming unrestricted free agents (as opposed to 4 seasons in the current system).

So does that push juniors to declare earlier, to get one year closer to FA? Maybe, but I don't think it will be a drastic shift. Not that many juniors are ready for the league.

(I am sure the league and the players association will at least come to an agreement in terms of continuing the Draft, plus a rookie contract scale of some sort. But I do think a new CBA will come.)

Addict
06-24-2008, 11:06 AM
I think any junior who has a half-decent change to make the first would declare IF there was a fixed salary system.

Paranoidmoonduck
06-24-2008, 01:13 PM
As it stands, most of the juniors who are threats to go in the top 20 declare anyway. But beyond that, the people who would be most likely to advise college juniors on declaring early are agents, someone that the juniors couldn't officially be in contact with until they've already declared.

Addict
06-24-2008, 01:21 PM
As it stands, most of the juniors who are threats to go in the top 20 declare anyway. But beyond that, the people who would be most likely to advise college juniors on declaring early are agents, someone that the juniors couldn't officially be in contact with until they've already declared.

It's more about guys like Leinart, Oher, Laurinatis staying in school, if they were on the bubble like the kids in '09 will be, I could understand they'd declare.

Big_Pete
06-24-2008, 06:00 PM
It's more about guys like Leinart, Oher, Laurinatis staying in school, if they were on the bubble like the kids in '09 will be, I could understand they'd declare.

Exactly, we could see some top juniors who would otherwise probably stay (or be uncertain) decare.

Scott Wright
06-24-2008, 07:08 PM
I don't think it will affect the 2009 NFL Draft but it could potentially play a role the year or two after that.

Regardless you can bet agents are using that scenario as a tool to convince underclassmen to go pro early.

Bruce Banner
06-24-2008, 07:27 PM
I don't think it will affect the 2009 NFL Draft but it could potentially play a role the year or two after that.

Regardless you can bet agents are using that scenario as a tool to convince underclassmen to go pro early.

He lives....

Paranoidmoonduck
06-24-2008, 07:52 PM
Regardless you can bet agents are using that scenario as a tool to convince underclassmen to go pro early.

I'm curious Scott, exactly how much contact do agents have with underclassmen directly after the college season wraps up?

Scott Wright
06-24-2008, 08:11 PM
I'm curious Scott, exactly how much contact do agents have with underclassmen directly after the college season wraps up?

I am not 100% on all the rules but I believe agents can speak to underclassmen right now as long as they don't accept any gifts or reach a representation agreement, verbal or written.

Big_Pete
06-24-2008, 09:01 PM
In any event, it is well worth keeping an eye on the progess of any CBA discussions and the owners meeting towards the end of the year.

The current CBA deal runs through 2009 and at the moment 2010 is an uncapped year. The dealine for resolving the issue and getting a deal in place for 2010 is March 2009.

With the deadline well after rookies declare, and a reasonable chance a new CBA deal isn't done until the last minute, there will be a huge amount of uncertainly for draft eligible underclassmen around the time they have to decide whether they declare for the NFL or not.

The public perception of the progress of discussions will be closely monitored by potential prospects and agents.

Bruce Banner
06-24-2008, 09:06 PM
They better get a good CBA in order because once the cap is gone it isn't coming back.
If the cap does leave. I am never watching the NFL again. I am not overreacting when I say this. I will actual become a true fan of the NCAA.

Brent
06-24-2008, 09:08 PM
They better get a good CBA in order because once the cap is gone it isn't coming back.
If the cap does leave. I am never watching the NFL again. I am not overreacting when I say this. I will actual become a true fan of the NCAA.
I dont know if I wont watch it, that depends on how insane it gets. If its just "who has the most money?" then it will be stupid because it wont be competitive.

Big_Pete
06-24-2008, 09:34 PM
slightly off topic, but here is a good quote about the CBA

from http://www.milehighreport.com/2008/5/20/523809/nfl-owners-opt-out-of-cba

The NFL has done a great job in positioning itself as this country's #1 sport in terms of popularity and finances. Wisely, the men that run the League, that helped it ascend to this point, put in place protective measures to avoid the "worst case scenario". To put it simply, an uncapped year doesn't help anyone - players, owners or fans.

What will happen? In my honest opinion both sides know what is at stake. They have the next year or so to get something done. There will be dooms-day talk from both sides and things will look bleak at times. In the end, cooler heads will prevail, the same cooler-heads that have shaped this League into the powerhouse it is today.





for more info read the whole article or research similar articles

Bruce Banner
06-24-2008, 09:36 PM
I dont know if I wont watch it, that depends on how insane it gets. If its just "who has the most money?" then it will be stupid because it wont be competitive.

The Redskins, Cowboys, and the Pats would be the Yankees of the NFL.

awfullyquiet
06-24-2008, 11:28 PM
Here's the thing.

1) if junior talent does declare, lots of them, flooding the market will mean less payouts for everyone. there's not going to be enough money. agents won't remind kids of that

2) BB is right. really with most of this. Makes tons of sense. Kids really need to plan for the what if. What if i don't make it, what if i get three years. The where are they now of this game really sucks. But. With making maximum rookie contracts, teams with the first pick, akin to the slots in baseball, won't be crippled if they have to have the first pick because of the contract it requires... sure. it sucks for the draftee. but tough ****. you want to be in the league. make sure you have your ducks in a row.

3) and by if 'yankees' you mean 'yankees, mets and red sox. respectively' then yes.

4) balls

Bruce Banner
06-24-2008, 11:33 PM
3) and by if 'yankees' you mean 'yankees, mets and red sox. respectively' then yes.


Of course.

awfullyquiet
06-24-2008, 11:45 PM
Of course.

one signs overpriced free agents.
the other chokes in the end.
and the last. well. is from boston. and that's all that needs to be said.

Bruce Banner
06-24-2008, 11:58 PM
one signs overpriced free agents.
the other chokes in the end.
and the last. well. is from boston. and that's all that needs to be said.

lollolololol

JT Jag
06-25-2008, 10:36 AM
I think rookie contracts should be mostly based on performance bonuses.

While the base contract would be significantly lower then current contracts, if incentives are met rookies could potentially make MORE then they would now.

Iamcanadian
06-25-2008, 11:29 PM
I think it is going to be tough sledding. The player's union will oppose any attempt to lower rookie salaries, they are the driving force behind increased money for all veteran contracts. As soon as a rookie becomes the top paid player at his position, every player playing that position automatically can expect a huge raise when he becomes a FA or can convince his team to renegotiate. Franchised players who are guaranteed to be paid the average of the top 5 salaries, sees his salary increase significantly every time a top draftee gets huge dollars.
The vast majority of veterans aren't stupid, their agents are well aware that any money saved from rookie contracts will go almost exclusively to the top 10-15 players in the league, the average veteran won't see an extra dime.
The owners aren't interested in paying average veterans more money, they keep what they can and use the money on their top stars just like baseball has learned to do.
The long ranger prognosis for restricting rookie salaries could be devastating to pro football. Paying rookies average salaries for 3 or 4 years could have serious legal challenges and more important, athletes choosing at the high school level which sport they will concentrate on could cause a major shift away from pro football considering the injury factor, short careers, and the peanuts they will be paid for 3 or 4 years. Only those stars who manage to stay healthy will be rewarded. Pro baseball and pro basketball have significantly longer careers on average so asking rookies in those sports to be patient is far less serious financially.
Upshaw also has to remember that within 2 or 3 years, the rookies he might think of screwing for the benefit of the current veterans, would soon make up the majority of his membership and he is going to have a very angry majority demanding to know within 2 or 3 years why he screwed them with their rookie contracts. I cannot see the union agreeing to any cutback in rookie salaries no matter what the average fan believes.
I see a major strike as being quite possible and I believe the owners are taking a huge gamble with their sport not for the benefit of veteran players but simply for greed, to line their own pockets with rookie salaries as their target. They have no real interest in giving average veterans more money. That's just a huge propaganda campaign to get fans to accept their side of the argument so they won't be too angry should a major shutdown occur.
Also remember that because of the severely limited rosters in pro basketball, allowing universal FA is not too severe since few teams have salary cap space to sign any star. However in football with huge rosters, basketball's FA system which makes small rookie salaries palpable, would be a nightmare and the owners have no intention of allowing pro football players to be FA's after only 3 years, no way in hell.
In my opinion, this is a money grab by the owners disguised to make fans think the owners are only doing this so the veterans will receive more money and again it will never fly past the union.

Big_Pete
06-28-2008, 08:44 AM
recent comments by Roger Goodell about the CBA situation and rookie salaries

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80909cc9&template=with-video&confirm=true

Buttered toast sonic
07-17-2008, 09:31 AM
the way I see it: 2010 will be uncapped, correct? if that is true, and the NFLPA and owners can't get a deal done, i could see FEWER underclassmen coming out, after all, why come out in a capped world, when if you're uncapped, you can demand MUCH more guaranteed cash?

Brent
07-17-2008, 10:49 AM
recent comments by Roger Goodell about the CBA situation and rookie salaries

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80909cc9&template=with-video&confirm=true

old news but yes, rookie's need a pay scale.