NFL Network's top ten cornerback tandems.

[Ness]

10. Everson Walls and Dennis Thurman - Dallas Cowboys.

9. Albert Lewis and Kevin Ross - Kansas City Chiefs.

8. Willie Brown and Skip Thomas - Oakland Raiders.

7. Deion Sanders along with anyone - various teams.

6. J.T. Thomas and Mel Blount - Pittsburgh Steelers.

5. Dick Lebeau and "The Hall of Famers" - Detroit Lions.

4. Herb Adderley and Bob Jeter - Green Bay Packers.

3. Ronnie Lott and Eric Wright - San Francisco 49ers.

2. Hanford Dixon and Frank Minnifield - Cleveland Browns.

1. Lester Hayes and Mike Haynes - Oakland Raiders.

Debate and discuss.

[bored of education]

You cannot go wrong with number one. Rod Woodson when he was a corner had a pro bowlers next to him i thought for a few years or another very good guy. ill have to find out

[619]

#1 all-time and present. :)

[Go_Eagles77]

I don't like the Deion Sanders along with anyone thing. A great tandem should have 2 great players, not one great player and one ok player, even if the great one is the best of all time.

[BaLLiN]

Well there was Deion and Champ, Deion and Larry Brown or whatever, Deion and some guy from the 49ers i dont know, Deion and McAlister. But basically Deion was pretty beast anywhere he was. i can see how they put it there because if there was any decent CB on the other side they knew it was coming and could defend pretty well. But it is called Tandems so i think they should just put one of those guys there.

[diabsoule]

Very vague and obscure list. I don't think it's worth a ****.

[SCSteeler]

Rod Woodson and Carnell Lake!!! they were SICK!!! they were everything Deion wasn't; corners that could cover AND hit!!!

is there film of Dick Lebeau playing?!

[Ness]

is there film of Dick Lebeau playing?!

Yeah they showed quite a few highlights of his career.

[RaiderFan]

Old man willie brown and skip should be second.
VOTE Lester"stickum"Hayes into the Hall of Fame

[PackerLegend]

WTF where is Ahmad Carroll and Joey Thomas.... I know they were our #2 and 3 but they were still way better then all of those fools. And where is Jordyzzzz he is easily #1 CB duo by himself and doesn't even play CB.... or does he¿??¿¿¿? :D

[Burns336]

Wasn't deion with Mertan Hanks on the 9ers? I remember that dude had the goofiest neck. He looked like a swan.

[Michigan]

i miss the good old days when cornerbacks were allowed to actually do something. now all they can do is run along with the WR and hope for a bad pass because of all these damn rules.

[doingthisinsteadofwork]

No suprise whos #1.

[Ness]

Wasn't deion with Mertan Hanks on the 9ers? I remember that dude had the goofiest neck. He looked like a swan.

Yes...but Merton moved to safety once Deion Sanders arrived.

[kmartin575]

I think Dale Carter and James Hasty deserve a spot.

[Geo]

Think Al Davis was having visions of Hayes/Haynes in his head when he acquired Deangelo Hall to pair with Nnamdi Asomugha? I'd say so. (and maybe Bo Jackson with Darren McFadden, etcetera.)

Asomugha and Hall being the best starting corner duo today, I'm sure we can all agree.

[CC.SD]

Think Al Davis was having visions of Hayes/Haynes in his head when he acquired Deangelo Hall to pair with Nnamdi Asomugha? I'd say so. (and maybe Bo Jackson with Darren McFadden, etcetera.)

Asomugha and Hall being the best starting corner duo today, I'm sure we can all agree.

How can we all agree when they haven't even played together yet?

[Addict]

Think Al Davis was having visions of Hayes/Haynes in his head when he acquired Deangelo Hall to pair with Nnamdi Asomugha? I'd say so. (and maybe Bo Jackson with Darren McFadden, etcetera.)

Asomugha and Hall being the best starting corner duo today, I'm sure we can all agree.

on paper, yes. But last time I checked the Patriots won the Superbowl on paper as well.

[BNad]

I would say we could agree on it because we've seen them play separately, against the league's #1s, and it's quite a good preview of what they'll do on their sides of the field?

[Ness]

I would say we could agree on it because we've seen them play separately, against the league's #1s, and it's quite a good preview of what they'll do on their sides of the field?

Champ Bailey and Dre Bly. People thought they would be dynamite, but it didn't work out as planned. Mainly due to no help from the front seven, but regardless it didn't work out.

So no you can't agree when they haven't played a single down yet.

[T-RICH49]

I think Dale Carter and James Hasty deserve a spot.

Agreed that was an impossible duo to throw on.

[21ST]

Deion and Darrell Green

[lordquas]

i thought ronnie lott was a safety?

[d34ng3l021]

Nnamdi Asomugha and DeAngelo Hall will be up there sometime.

[SaintsMan]

What about Jason David and Fred Thomas?

[TACKLE]

10. Everson Walls and Dennis Thurman - Dallas Cowboys.

9. Albert Lewis and Kevin Ross - Kansas City Chiefs.

8. Willie Brown and Skip Thomas - Oakland Raiders.

7. Deion Sanders along with anyone - various teams.

6. J.T. Thomas - Pittsburgh Steelers.

5. Dick Lebeau and "The Hall of Famers" - Detroit Lions.

4. Herb Adderley and Bob Jeter - Green Bay Packers.

3. Ronnie Lott and Eric Wright - San Francisco 49ers.

2. Hanford Dixon and Frank Minnifield - Cleveland Browns.

1. Lester Hayes and Mike Haynes - Oakland Raiders.

Debate and discuss.


Ness, you need to change that to Mel Blount and JT Thomas.



i thought ronnie lott was a safety?

He played CB early in his career.

[Burns336]

Think Al Davis was having visions of Hayes/Haynes in his head when he acquired Deangelo Hall to pair with Nnamdi Asomugha? I'd say so. (and maybe Bo Jackson with Darren McFadden, etcetera.)

Asomugha and Hall being the best starting corner duo today, I'm sure we can all agree.

Could just as easily be Newman/Jones

[Go_Eagles77]

Could just as easily be Newman/Jones

They're not even 2nd best.

[d34ng3l021]

DeAngelo Hall allowed 1 TD last season. Nnamdi allowed 9 (?) catches last season. This is a different combo then Bailey and Bly, where Bly had been doing ok, but was just assumed to do well because he fits the scheme.

[terribletowel39]

They're not even 2nd best.
If Pacman returns to his presuspended form, they are second best. And I hope you are not trying to insinuate that it is the Eagles??

[Go_Eagles77]

If Pacman returns to his presuspended form, they are second best. And I hope you are not trying to insinuate that it is the Eagles??

Why not? The only duo I'd take over the eagles is Asomougha and Hall, and I'd take no trio over the eagles. And if someone tries to make me into a homer by saying that, that's pretty sad.

[terribletowel39]

Like I said, if Pacman goes back to form, he and Newman are better than Samuel and Sheppard. I'd take Denver and Chargers over the Eagles.

It probably has something to do with Asante, to me, being overrated as heck.

[PACKmanN]

Why not? The only duo I'd take over the eagles is Asomougha and Hall, and I'd take no trio over the eagles. And if someone tries to make me into a homer by saying that, that's pretty sad.

there are many other CB duo I would take before the Eagles. Nothing against them, but I think Samuels is an average CB who got over payed by the Eagles.

[umphrey]

Think Al Davis was having visions of Hayes/Haynes in his head when he acquired Deangelo Hall to pair with Nnamdi Asomugha? I'd say so. (and maybe Bo Jackson with Darren McFadden, etcetera.)

Asomugha and Hall being the best starting corner duo today, I'm sure we can all agree.

I would disagree. It's certainly possible, but they haven't even played together yet. Teams will have to throw at them more now. Maybe they'll step up, or maybe they won't be as impressive.

[Geo]

Fair point, guys. I may have jumped the gun.

I certainly wouldn't count Adam Jones fully yet, however. He's been away from football for over a year, I can't expect him to jump back in in Pro Bowl shutdown form immediately.

[nobodyinparticular]

Champ Bailey and Dre Bly. People thought they would be dynamite, but it didn't work out as planned. Mainly due to no help from the front seven, but regardless it didn't work out.

So no you can't agree when they haven't played a single down yet.

Or the fact that people were just deluded into thinking that Dre Bly was actually good, when that hasn't been the case for 3-4 years.

[Ness]

Or the fact that people were just deluded into thinking that Dre Bly was actually good, when that hasn't been the case for 3-4 years.Well he's also been on the Lions for that amount of time. In that same span I don't remember Detroit ever having a legitimate pass rush.

[Ness]

Ness, you need to change that to Mel Blount and JT Thomas.

Thank you.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Fair point, guys. I may have jumped the gun.

I certainly wouldn't count Adam Jones fully yet, however. He's been away from football for over a year, I can't expect him to jump back in in Pro Bowl shutdown form immediately.

I would argue that Adam Jones was never really at the Pro Bowl level. His physicality oscillated from aggressive to laughably soft and his coverage was inconsistent. He was a great punt returner and he obviously has gobs of talent, but at no point in his first two seasons with the Titans was I ever convinced he was anywhere near that elite level.

On a team like the Cowboys with a great supporting cast and good coaching he might well fulfill that potential. But people's opinion of Jones as a cover corner is inflated.

[Burns336]

I would argue that Adam Jones was never really at the Pro Bowl level. His physicality oscillated from aggressive to laughably soft and his coverage was inconsistent. He was a great punt returner and he obviously has gobs of talent, but at no point in his first two seasons with the Titans was I ever convinced he was anywhere near that elite level.

On a team like the Cowboys with a great supporting cast and good coaching he might well fulfill that potential. But people's opinion of Jones as a cover corner is inflated.

I actually just picked up the 2008 football prospectus and although some people on here don't like analyzing with stats, Adam Jones was one of the top DB's in the league prior to his suspension based off of statistics alone. He had one of the highest success rates in terms of shutting down his receiver.

I actually got the idea to mention him and Newman together as one of the top, if not the top, duos because the book itself eludes to it.

It says Newman has played at a consistent level throughout his career and if Adam returns to form, they would definately be among the top... Statistically speaking.

I'm not overly worried about him getting back to what he was either. Plenty of guys are out of football for a year due to injury and come back fine. He wasn't even injured and has been able to maintain at least some form of a workout schedule while out. Early reports have been great. TC should tell us a lot.

EDIT: Ill check when I get home tonight to see the actual amount of times Aso was targeted and how many completions he gave up in case anyone is interested. Off the top of my head I believe he only gave up 11 completions on 38 attempts, which is crazy.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

All I know is that when I saw Jones play as a Titan I typically went from being rather impressed to raising my eyebrow very quickly (and back again). No doubt he had his moments, but there were other times where I had no idea what he was doing. I'd be interested to see what Prospectus has in terms of stats to say about Adam.

[Burns336]

All I know is that when I saw Jones play as a Titan I typically went from being rather impressed to raising my eyebrow very quickly (and back again). No doubt he had his moments, but there were other times where I had no idea what he was doing. I'd be interested to see what Prospectus has in terms of stats to say about Adam.

Ill throw up his entire 2006 line when I get home. Do you know what all of the categories stand for or do I need to give some explanations?

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Ill throw up his entire 2006 line when I get home. Do you know what all of the categories stand for or do I need to give some explanations?

So long as you give me some basis as to where his numbers rated in comparison to the rest of the league, I think I have enough experience with Football Outsiders to figure it out.

[Burns336]

So long as you give me some basis as to where his numbers rated in comparison to the rest of the league, I think I have enough experience with Football Outsiders to figure it out.

Give me a couple other corners you want to see his numbers up against. Exclude Aso though, because he is a freak and they had to tweak his numbers just to make it so he could be included since he wasn't thrown at enough to qualify as a starter.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Give me a couple other corners you want to see his numbers up against. Exclude Aso though, because he is a freak and they had to tweak his numbers just to make it so he could be included since he wasn't thrown at enough to qualify as a starter.

Whatever you think makes the most convincing case for Jones will be fine.

[Burns336]

Whatever you think makes the most convincing case for Jones will be fine.

Ill throw up champ. asante, trufant, d hall?

[terribletowel39]

Ill throw up champ. asante, trufant, d hall?
throw up Ike Taylor's numbers as well. I want to see how he matches up numbers wise. If ya don't mind.

[Burns336]

throw up Ike Taylor's numbers as well. I want to see how he matches up numbers wise. If ya don't mind.

no prob. I might not put trufants because I dont know if anyone cares about him

[terribletowel39]

no prob. I might not put trufants because I dont know if anyone cares about him
thats a good possibility.

[Burns336]

if there is anyone else you might think is a good measuring stick, let me know.

[661rep]

if there is anyone else you might think is a good measuring stick, let me know.

I'm really curious about Jammer & Cromartie as a Raider fan. I wanna see how good they both really were. Also you could probably list Rashean Mathis & Nate Clements.

[yourfavestoner]

I'm really curious about Jammer & Cromartie as a Raider fan. I wanna see how good they both really were. Also you could probably list Rashean Mathis & Nate Clements.

I'd assume that Mathis' numbers aren't very good. He had an off year last season, as he was playing through nagging a hamstring and shoulder injury all season.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

if there is anyone else you might think is a good measuring stick, let me know.

I'm not sure if this counts as a measuring stick, but I'd love to see Al Harris' numbers versus those of Charles Woodson.

[Gay Ork Wang]

I wanna see Vashers/Tillmans Numbers :D

[Burns336]

Success rate is defined as this: The percentage of plays targeting this player on which the offense DID NOT have a successful play. This means not only incomplete passes and interceptions but short completions which do not meet our baselines for success (45 percent of needed yards on first down, 60 percent on second down, 100 percent on 3rd and 4th down) Defensive pass interference is counted as a failure as is a successful completion or first down.

Adam Jones: Targeted 69 times, Success rate of 63%, 5.4 YPC (Avg. yards per completion given up)

Nathan Vasher: Unavailable due to missing 12 games caused by injury

Charles Tillman: Targeted 93 times, Success rate of 52%, 5.9 YPC

Champ Bailey: Targeted 67 times, Success rate of 59%, 6.7 YPC

Charles Woodson: Targeted 62 times, Success rate of 58%, 7.7 YPC

Al Harris: Targeted 74 times, Success rate of 40%, 9.4 YPC

Rashean Mathis: Targeted 61 times, Success rate of 47%, 6.5 YPC

Nanmdi Asomugha: Targeted 38 times, Success rate of 61%, 5.8 YPC

DeAngelo Hall: Targeted 92 times, Success rate of 52%,
7.2 YPC

Asante Samuel: Targeted 81 times, Success rate of 51%, 6.3 YPC

Ike Taylor: Targeted 111 times, Success rate of 53%, 7.2 YPC

Quentin Jammer: Targeted 81 times, Success rate of 53%, 6.4 YPC

Antonio Cromartie: Targeted 57 times, Success rate of 50%, 8.2 YPC

Nate Clements: Targeted 109 times, Success rate of 50%, 8.0 YPC


SIDE NOTE: Charles Woodson and Al Harris were ranked 1 and 2 in defensive penalties with 12 and 11 respectively.

[Bruce]

Night Trane Lane and whoever was opposite him.

[661rep]

Asomugha is beastly.

[Ness]

Success rate is defined as this: The percentage of plays targeting this player on which the offense DID NOT have a successful play. This means not only incomplete passes and interceptions but short completions which do not meet our baselines for success (45 percent of needed yards on first down, 60 percent on second down, 100 percent on 3rd and 4th down) Defensive pass interference is counted as a failure as is a successful completion or first down.

Adam Jones: Targeted 69 times, Success rate of 63%, 5.4 YPC (Avg. yards per completion given up)

Nathan Vasher: Unavailable due to missing 12 games caused by injury

Charles Tillman: Targeted 93 times, Success rate of 52%, 5.9 YPC

Champ Bailey: Targeted 67 times, Success rate of 59%, 6.7 YPC

Charles Woodson: Targeted 62 times, Success rate of 58%, 7.7 YPC

Al Harris: Targeted 74 times, Success rate of 40%, 9.4 YPC

Rashean Mathis: Targeted 61 times, Success rate of 47%, 6.5 YPC

Nanmdi Asomugha: Targeted 38 times, Success rate of 61%, 5.8 YPC

DeAngelo Hall: Targeted 92 times, Success rate of 52%,
7.2 YPC

Asante Samuel: Targeted 81 times, Success rate of 51%, 6.3 YPC

Ike Taylor: Targeted 111 times, Success rate of 53%, 7.2 YPC

Quentin Jammer: Targeted 81 times, Success rate of 53%, 6.4 YPC

Antonio Cromartie: Targeted 57 times, Success rate of 50%, 8.2 YPC

Nate Clements: Targeted 109 times, Success rate of 50%, 8.0 YPC


SIDE NOTE: Charles Woodson and Al Harris were ranked 1 and 2 in defensive penalties with 12 and 11 respectively.
Wouldn't a team's pass rush effect a corner's success though?

[661rep]

Wouldn't a team's pass rush effect a corner's success though?

Yes. Although, two of the best CB's in league Aso & Champ haven't had good pass rush the last two years.

[Burns336]

Wouldn't a team's pass rush effect a corner's success though?

well obviously any stat you look at should be taken into consideration along with the players system. Even the most basic stats such as yards for a running back depend on the system. Look at all of the Bronco RB's. You're basically guaranteed 1000 yards...

Or you can say an O-line makes or breaks a RB, or QB.

Same with defense, Maybe they play a lot more zone, maybe more man to man, maybe they have more/less of a pass rush with other guys.

These are simply the best stats available for CB's, but to answer your question, yes the system in which the player plays in should be taken into consideration.

But you still must consider that the success rate is only affected and taken into account when a player is directly targeted on a play. So, while the pass rush may help to force a crappy pass in the direction of the defender, it certainly isn't happening on every play.

I'd argue that the top pressure producing team in the league is san diego -- as you can see, even with that pressure, Jammer and Cro aren't as good as some guys who dont get any help at all (Aso)

[Burns336]

Anyway, the whole point of me posting these is to show that Adam Jones was one of the top cb's in the league statistically speaking in 2006 and could end up forming the top duo in the league along side Terence Newman, who had a down year by his standards, mostly due to the injury which he had in his plant foot for a majority of the season.

Rashean Mathis down year can be attributed to injury as well.

Newman: Targeted 68 times, Success rate of 47%, 6.9 YPC

[Ness]

well obviously any stat you look at should be taken into consideration along with the players system. Even the most basic stats such as yards for a running back depend on the system. Look at all of the Bronco RB's. You're basically guaranteed 1000 yards...

Or you can say an O-line makes or breaks a RB, or QB.

Same with defense, Maybe they play a lot more zone, maybe more man to man, maybe they have more/less of a pass rush with other guys.

These are simply the best stats available for CB's, but to answer your question, yes the system in which the player plays in should be taken into consideration.

But you still must consider that the success rate is only affected and taken into account when a player is directly targeted on a play. So, while the pass rush may help to force a crappy pass in the direction of the defender, it certainly isn't happening on every play.

I'd argue that the top pressure producing team in the league is san diego -- as you can see, even with that pressure, Jammer and Cro aren't as good as some guys who dont get any help at all (Aso)
Are those the most recent metrics from each player based on the most recent season they played?

[terribletowel39]

Does it say how many TD's they allowed??

[Burns336]

Are those the most recent metrics from each player based on the most recent season they played?

yeah, these are from the past season with the exception of adam jones, his are from the last season he played in.

[Burns336]

Does it say how many TD's they allowed??

unfortunately no. I can't figure out why they wouldn't. That is pretty important to me.

I think I read that the rational behind it was that if a DB gives up a huge pass and makes the tackle down at the 2 yard line, then the opposing offense rushes the ball in, the DB should be held somewhat accountable for that TD. Since you can't actually put a number on how many td's they should be held accountable for, they just do successes and failures.

That being said, I would still love to see an exact number for TD's. Maybe KC Joyners book will have it.

[zCaddyz]

call me a homer but what about r.barber and b.kelly

[Burns336]

call me a homer but what about r.barber and b.kelly

Ill throw them up when I get home

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Hate to keep bugging you for stats, but I'd also like to see Fabian Washington, Marcus Trufant, and Terrance Newman if you get a chance.

[Burns336]

I posted newmans a few posts up where I was talking about he and mathis putting up below avg. numbers which can probably attributed to injuries.

Ill throw up trufant and washington when I get home.

[Burns336]

Ronde Barber: Targeted 53 times, Success rate of 47%, 6.5 YPC

Brian Kelly: Targeted 34 times, Success rate of 55%, 4.8 YPC

Marcus Trufant: Targeted 113 times, Success rate of 53%, 6.8 YPC

Fabian Washington: Targeted 50 times, Success rate of 46%, 9.3 YPC <<<Wow, almost as bad as Al Harris

[Go_Eagles77]

Can you do Lito Sheppard/Sheldon Brown maybe?

[bigbluedefense]

the whole "Deion with anyone else" thing was funny. Funny, but true. Deion was amazing.

[CC.SD]

I'd argue that the top pressure producing team in the league is san diego -- as you can see, even with that pressure, Jammer and Cro aren't as good as some guys who dont get any help at all (Aso)

Ask any Charger fan and they'll probably tell you the secondary outperformed the pass rush in 2007. QBs had way too much time against us, even though Merriman and Phillips got their numbers.

[Burns336]

Ask any Charger fan and they'll probably tell you the secondary outperformed the pass rush in 2007. QBs had way too much time against us, even though Merriman and Phillips got their numbers.

I live here, I watch every game. If Castillo is healthy and Merriman isn't suspended the front 7 is def better than the secondary. But Jammer finally came around and played well and Cro was only in his first full year. They can be even better this year.

[Burns336]

Lito Sheppard: Targeted 61 times, 36% Success rate, 8.5 YPC

Sheldon Brown: Targeted 83 times, 53% Success rate, 7.4 YPC

[Go_Eagles77]

Wow that's really bad, I'd hope it had something to do with injuries.

[Burns336]

Wow that's really bad, I'd hope it had something to do with injuries.

Honestly, I didn't think Sheppard was struggling that much. I didn't watch any eagle games except for when they played us. But still.

[CC.SD]

I live here, I watch every game. If Castillo is healthy and Merriman isn't suspended the front 7 is def better than the secondary. But Jammer finally came around and played well and Cro was only in his first full year. They can be even better this year.

I agree there's far more talent in the front 7, especially with Luis, but last year I really think the secondary more than pulled its weight for the first time in forever. This year I think we're going to get good safety play as well, and if that happens the sky is the limit for the Charger D.

[Burns336]

I agree there's far more talent in the front 7, especially with Luis, but last year I really think the secondary more than pulled its weight for the first time in forever. This year I think we're going to get good safety play as well, and if that happens the sky is the limit for the Charger D.

I didn't even realize I wrote suspended for merriman hahah I meant to type injured...

[Ness]

yeah, these are from the past season with the exception of adam jones, his are from the last season he played in.

I have another source that states that Hall's YPA was actually 7.8. Apparently the second best he's ever had. But then again that source is ESPN so I don't know.

[Burns336]

I have another source that states that Hall's YPA was actually 7.8. Apparently the second best he's ever had. But then again that source is ESPN so I don't know.

That's odd, I know espn uses Outsiders material for some of their stats.

I just double checked and they have it as 7.2 for this past season which is fairly average. I would say 7.8 is below average. That is damn near 8 yards for every completion he gives up. That is Jacque Reeves territory.

[Sniper]

Wow that's really bad, I'd hope it had something to do with injuries.

Well, Lito was bothered by nagging injuries last year, so I would think it'd have something to do with it. He had a really good success rate (36%) but he gave up a lot of big plays. Part of that was injuries, part of it was his poor tackling.

And with Lito down, Sheldon was covering more #1s, and he's not meant to do that. He's a good #2, and he will be terrific as a nickel for us.

Honestly, I didn't think Sheppard was struggling that much. I didn't watch any eagle games except for when they played us. But still.

Lito kills the Cowboys! I don't know how he does it, but I'm glad we still have him so he can own the Cowboys some more.

[Sniper]

Adam Jones: Targeted 69 times, Success rate of 63%, 5.4 YPC (Avg. yards per completion given up)

Charles Tillman: Targeted 93 times, Success rate of 52%, 5.9 YPC

Champ Bailey: Targeted 67 times, Success rate of 59%, 6.7 YPC

Charles Woodson: Targeted 62 times, Success rate of 58%, 7.7 YPC

Al Harris: Targeted 74 times, Success rate of 40%, 9.4 YPC

Rashean Mathis: Targeted 61 times, Success rate of 47%, 6.5 YPC

Nanmdi Asomugha: Targeted 38 times, Success rate of 61%, 5.8 YPC

DeAngelo Hall: Targeted 92 times, Success rate of 52%,
7.2 YPC

Asante Samuel: Targeted 81 times, Success rate of 51%, 6.3 YPC

Ike Taylor: Targeted 111 times, Success rate of 53%, 7.2 YPC

Quentin Jammer: Targeted 81 times, Success rate of 53%, 6.4 YPC

Antonio Cromartie: Targeted 57 times, Success rate of 50%, 8.2 YPC

Nate Clements: Targeted 109 times, Success rate of 50%, 8.0 YPC



So the "massively overrated" Asante Samuel (according to everyone here) had the fourth best YPC average, and had a success rate of 51%? I'm excited to have this "overrated" corner then.

[Burns336]

So the "massively overrated" Asante Samuel (according to everyone here) had the fourth best YPC average, and had a success rate of 51%? I'm excited to have this "overrated" corner then.

That's exactly what I looked at. I'm pretty pissed. haha.

[Burns336]

Well, Lito was bothered by nagging injuries last year, so I would think it'd have something to do with it. He had a really good success rate (36%) but he gave up a lot of big plays. Part of that was injuries, part of it was his poor tackling.

And with Lito down, Sheldon was covering more #1s, and he's not meant to do that. He's a good #2, and he will be terrific as a nickel for us.



Lito kills the Cowboys! I don't know how he does it, but I'm glad we still have him so he can own the Cowboys some more.

You have the success rate backwards... This meant teams were successful against him 64% of the time, or in other word, he only stopped the offense 36% of the time.

however, pre knee surgery in 2006 he had a success rate of 60% and allowed just 6.6 YPC which was in the top 10.

EDIT: If you look in the cowboys team forum at the general discussion, Thule recently posted a good article some guy did where he went more in depth with the stats. I believe it had Samuel in a pretty favorable position.

[Sniper]

You have the success rate backwards... This meant teams were successful against him 64% of the time, or in other word, he only stopped the offense 36% of the time.

however, pre knee surgery in 2006 he had a success rate of 60% and allowed just 6.6 YPC which was in the top 10.

EDIT: If you look in the cowboys team forum at the general discussion, Thule recently posted a good article some guy did where he went more in depth with the stats. I believe it had Samuel in a pretty favorable position.

Oh I apologize about the success rate thing. I misread it. Wow that's a horrible rate, but he wasn't very good last year, so it makes sense.

[661rep]

EDIT: If you look in the cowboys team forum at the general discussion, Thule recently posted a good article some guy did where he went more in depth with the stats. I believe it had Samuel in a pretty favorable position.

Nevermind I see it now.

"Asomugha had by far the lowest "unsuccessful play" ratio, with one catch or defensive penalty every 29.4 pass attempts he faced (the next-best was 17.7). But he had one of the highest yards allowed per unsuccessful play -- 18.8, which ranked 79th out of 81. So he was almost never targeted or beaten, but when he was beaten, he often gave up big chunks of yardage."

Hmm this is odd. I only remember Asomugha getting beat deep once. It was against the Chiefs on a broken play, but he still saved the TD.

[Geo]

So the "massively overrated" Asante Samuel (according to everyone here) had the fourth best YPC average, and had a success rate of 51%? I'm excited to have this "overrated" corner then.
Good call. It's funny how the idiot talking heads on TV, sheep prodded to one hype train after another, are blabbering the same Kraft company line about Samuel being a product of the Patriots. Products of a system don't make as many plays as Samuel does, that requires ability and football acumen among other things. There hasn't been a better playmaking corner than Samuel that last two seasons.

Funny how Samuel is such a product of the Patriots, and yet they haven't developed another product as good as or close to Samuel. Not am I expecting them to given their current roster. But who cares about that when they have the best front office evar and the best team evar.

It's a big addition for the Eagles, as despite a great defensive effort and stellar coaching job last season, they couldn't generate turnovers. Their previous best chances were Lito Sheppard and Brian Dawkins, Sheppard has difficulty staying healthy and Dawkins might be getting old. Of course improving the pass rush by adding Clemons and dumping dead weight Jevon Kearse also helps.

[Burns336]

Good call. It's funny how the idiot talking heads on TV, sheep prodded to one hype train after another, are blabbering the same Kraft company line about Samuel being a product of the Patriots. Products of a system don't make as many plays as Samuel does, that requires ability and football acumen among other things. There hasn't been a better playmaking corner than Samuel that last two seasons.

Funny how Samuel is such a product of the Patriots, and yet they haven't developed another product as good as or close to Samuel. Not am I expecting them to given their current roster. But who cares about that when they have the best front office evar and the best team evar.

It's a big addition for the Eagles, as despite a great defensive effort and stellar coaching job last season, they couldn't generate turnovers. Their previous best chances were Lito Sheppard and Brian Dawkins, Sheppard has difficulty staying healthy and Dawkins might be getting old. Of course improving the pass rush by adding Clemons and dumping dead weight Jevon Kearse also helps.

Exactly, a perfect example is how Ellis Hobbs has some of the worst metrics but is coming from "the system" that should allow him to be great since he can "gamble all he wants with no repercussions"

[d34ng3l021]

I am sure you have to take into account which scheme the CB plays in. Guys like Asante Samuels play alot of short zone and break on the ball very well, thus giving up less YPA, while other guys like Hall play alot of straight up man to man coverage.

[Burns336]

I am sure you have to take into account which scheme the CB plays in. Guys like Asante Samuels play alot of short zone and break on the ball very well, thus giving up less YPA, while other guys like Hall play alot of straight up man to man coverage.

Yes, I mentioned up above that scheme must be taken into account.

Marlin Jackson, Ronde Barber, and Asante Samuel all played well in short zone schemes.

Key word though is that they played WELL. It wasn't just the scheme. Plenty of players struggled in the same scheme. The did their jobs well, and when a completion was given up, it wasn't for much.

Beyond that, Asante is great at jumping routes. He has good instincts. That is something you cant teach. People just hate on him because he was a Patriot.

Although the patriots replaced him with Wheatly and he was known for being a gambler in college. I wouldn't be surprised to see him succeed in the scheme, even though he was a 4th rounder. He has good speed and likes to gamble. It will all depend on how many times he guesses right.

On Hall -- I don't know. Obviously you love him. I still think he hasn't reached his potential. It's like he has the tools to be one of the best, but stupid mental errors and too much off field/on field smack talking takes away from his game.

If he would just shut up and really work on his craft I think he could be top 3 in the league.

[keylime_5]

what's up with the Deion thing? they should pick his best tandem he was a part of and put it somewhere, but not as high as it is. He couldn't tackle at all either, so I don't think just Deion was better than having two great corners than one great corner and one mediocre corner.

[DMWSackMachine]

Uh, most people forget now, but Kevin Smith was a Pro Bowl caliber player for years with the Cowboys. He was by far the best CB that Deion played alongside during his best years, and they were legitimately an All-Time combo. Those two were the best in coverage I have ever seen in all my days watching football.


Also, Burns, are you sure that is yard per completion? I don't follow prospectus like I do Joyner's numbers, but with KC its YPA not YPC, and the YPA numbers he has are fairly close to what you are labeling YPC. Could we clear this up?

[neko4]

I hope Al Harris gets back on track this year. He probably shouldnt play the #1 WR anymore.

[Burns336]

Uh, most people forget now, but Kevin Smith was a Pro Bowl caliber player for years with the Cowboys. He was by far the best CB that Deion played alongside during his best years, and they were legitimately an All-Time combo. Those two were the best in coverage I have ever seen in all my days watching football.


Also, Burns, are you sure that is yard per completion? I don't follow prospectus like I do Joyner's numbers, but with KC its YPA not YPC, and the YPA numbers he has are fairly close to what you are labeling YPC. Could we clear this up?

It's actually listed as APaYd which is defined as The average number of yards gained on plays on which the defender was the listed target.

I just listed it as YPC and called it yards per catch to make it easier for everyone to understand.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

I hope Al Harris gets back on track this year. He probably shouldnt play the #1 WR anymore.

I've been curious about Green Bay's defense, because it's easily the most similar to what Oakland runs right now. Pretty much the past two years in Oakland (but at least all of 2007), they played a pure LCB/RCB system instead of moving a corner around with a particular wideout. Does Green Bay try to match up a guy with a particular receiver or do Harris and Woodson typically have a half of the field assigned to them?

[luee]

than a drop-off.