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TimD
07-09-2008, 05:08 PM
Labor bureau: Japanese man, 45, died of overwork

A Japanese labor bureau has ruled that one of Toyota's top car engineers died from working too many hours, the latest in a string of such findings in a nation where extraordinarily long hours for some employees has long been the norm.

In the two months up to his death, the man averaged more than 80 hours of overtime per month, according to Mizuno.

There is an effort in Japan to cut down on deaths from overwork, known as "karoshi." Such deaths have steadily increased since the Health Ministry first recognized the phenomenon in 1987.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080709/ap_on_bi_ge/japan_overwork_death

I find it amazing how people from foreign nations, especially the Japanese practically accept the fact that they will be overworked. It shows how different our two societies/cultures are. It seems like Americans work in order to survive as well as use their earned money to better their lives, and other nations work in order to accomplish their goals at the workplace. Your thoughts?

slightlyaraiderfan
07-09-2008, 05:11 PM
Woot works 14 hours a day, he's only moving boxes, but still....something like that is odd here.

TheBuffaloBills
07-09-2008, 05:23 PM
Thats sucks..... but you know what sucks just as much? Me working every day for just 3 hours..... It ruins my day. I dont do anything before hand because I dont have the time. I get a lousy paycheck

CJSchneider
07-09-2008, 05:40 PM
I'm a middle school teacher. I get to work at 6:30 AM(prep my room for the day). I Usually don't leave until 4:30 PM, unless I have a faculty meeting or doing some extra tutoring, then I might get out by 5:30 PM. If there is a game (doesn't matter what kind -any sport) I'm there as either a coach or to act in as a monitor/supervise/security. On those nights I don't get home untill maybe 8 or 8:30 PM.
My whole point of this is to demonstrate where as teachers don't get paid nearly what they should, any extra work I do, is to the benefit of others, not myself.

awfullyquiet
07-09-2008, 05:56 PM
Really, just part of america works 40 hours.

The average in my line of work is around 60-70 hours a week. Lawyers are even higher, with 80-90 a week.

jayceheathman
07-09-2008, 06:20 PM
I'm a middle school teacher. I get to work at 6:30 AM(prep my room for the day). I Usually don't leave until 4:30 PM, unless I have a faculty meeting or doing some extra tutoring, then I might get out by 5:30 PM. If there is a game (doesn't matter what kind -any sport) I'm there as either a coach or to act in as a monitor/supervise/security. On those nights I don't get home untill maybe 8 or 8:30 PM.
My whole point of this is to demonstrate where as teachers don't get paid nearly what they should, any extra work I do, is to the benefit of others, not myself.

I disagree. Not too many jobs out there give you the summer off and long vacations for each holiday. You get like 3 weeks off for Christmas instead of just a 3 or 4 day weekend like a lot jobs. For the coaching stuff I would say you should get more unless you are volunteering to do it.

jayceheathman
07-09-2008, 06:23 PM
Really, just part of america works 40 hours.

The average in my line of work is around 60-70 hours a week. Lawyers are even higher, with 80-90 a week.

"I cant believe there is not one job out there. Yeah, unless you want to work 40 hours a week!"

saintsfan912
07-09-2008, 06:26 PM
I work 30 hours of overtime per WEEK. 80 hours a month isn't much, ******* pansy Japanese guy. I work as an electrician in Louisiana where the temperature reaches 100+ on a regular basis. I don't do it to survive, I do it so I can retire earlier than 40 hour a week people. I also do it to buy my toys ha.

terribletowel39
07-09-2008, 06:27 PM
I disagree. Not too many jobs out there give you the summer off and long vacations for each holiday. You get like 3 weeks off for Christmas instead of just a 3 or 4 day weekend like a lot jobs. For the coaching stuff I would say you should get more unless you are volunteering to do it.
What are you disagreeing with?? That he is a middle school teacher?? He didn't say anything you can disagree with. If you are talking about teachers not getting paid enough, I know many school teachers that get 2nd jobs during the summers because pay is so lousy ESPECIALLY in Louisiana.

jayceheathman
07-09-2008, 06:32 PM
What are you disagreeing with?? That he is a middle school teacher?? He didn't say anything you can disagree with. If you are talking about teachers not getting paid enough, I know many school teachers that get 2nd jobs during the summers because pay is so lousy ESPECIALLY in Louisiana.

I was disagreeing where he said "my point is that teachers dont get paid well enough."

They dont get paid well but they also are off on vacation 4 to 5 months out of the year which kind of even things out.

terribletowel39
07-09-2008, 06:39 PM
I was disagreeing where he said "my point is that teachers dont get paid well enough."

They dont get paid well but they also are off on vacation 4 to 5 months out of the year which kind of even things out.
yea, i think you are from Texas. The difference in Texas pay and Louisiana pay for teachers is like night and day. CJ is a middle school teacher in Louisiana. (Not to throw you under the bus CJ) but he probably doesn't make more than 35k a year unless it has gone up a bit in the last 2 and half years. Hell, I know for a fact that over here in Dallas, teachers start out at like 42-44k a year. That is a major increase.

And like I said previously, I know several teachers that had to get 2nd jobs in the summer to help bring in some extra scash right were CJ is from.

saintsfan912
07-09-2008, 06:41 PM
Actually South Louisiana has very competitive pay towards teachers. That is probably why Ascension and Livingston Parish are growing at an exponentially alarming rate. I've lived in Ascension all my life (Parish right next to Baton Rouge) and it is getting too populated for my comfort. Traffic is just disgusting.

terribletowel39
07-09-2008, 06:42 PM
Maybe so, but we both know North and South Louisiana is like comparing New York and Texas. haha

saintsfan912
07-09-2008, 06:42 PM
And I think CJ's point was he puts in alot more hours at no benefit to himself which jacks up the hours he works.

saintsfan912
07-09-2008, 06:43 PM
Maybe so, but we both know North and South Louisiana is like comparing New York and Texas. haha

Yea, its kinda weird. Fricking Yankees up in North LA, haha.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-09-2008, 06:44 PM
I find it amazing how people from foreign nations, especially the Japanese practically accept the fact that they will be overworked.

Except that the phrase "overworked" doesn't apply. It's a culturally subjective term.

CJSchneider
07-09-2008, 06:45 PM
Jay, a recent study was done that evaluated average teacher income vs. average non-teacher income (filtered by those who have at least a BA or BS). It showed that a teacher works an average 195 work days (some of these are during the summer) with an average day equaling 9 hours or 1755 work hours. The average individual (non teacher) 238 with an average day equaling 8.5 or 2023 work hours. This shows an 87% work time by teachers, what was sad was that when salaries of the same group were analyzed, across the board when equal years of employment were matched, teachers made only 74% of there non-teaching counterparts. A 13 % difference or deficet to the teachers. When administrators were examined, not only did teachers acquire 19-24% more education (% with Masters and above) pay averages were off by as much as 21%.
Additionally, when the amount of "paper work pertaining to profession" was examined, within the same group, when years of experience were matched, after an average of 9 years, the non-teacher had at least 1 individual assigned to them to aid in this "paper-work".

Now, I'll tell you straight up, that if I were paid more, I would not be a better teacher. I give 100% everyday regardless. It would however be nice to be appreciated; and sometimes, actions speak louder then words.

saintsfan912
07-09-2008, 06:45 PM
Except that the phrase "overworked" doesn't apply. It's a culturally subjective term.

Yea because 80 hours of overtime isn't exactly overworked.

JF4
07-09-2008, 06:51 PM
WOW they overwork peopkle in Japan! SHOCKING!

Shame it wasn't a 9 year old kid. Would've made for a better story.

CJSchneider
07-09-2008, 07:02 PM
And just to put things into perspective for you; I taught summer school this year just so I can pay for my two oldest kids to get their tonsils out this summer. I make every other profession possible and I have to work extra so my kids can stay healthy.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-09-2008, 07:19 PM
Yea because 80 hours of overtime isn't exactly overworked.

I'm willing to bet that most people in Japan don't expect to expand their average work week by 20 hours, and many wouldn't accept such a change.

CJSchneider
07-09-2008, 07:23 PM
Just out of curioustity, what is the average work week in Japan without overtime?
do the math, 80 hours is 4 hours a day for a 20 day work month, making everyday be 12 hours if you assume a 40 hour work week. What if their work week is more than 40 hours?

Mr. Carter
07-10-2008, 08:18 AM
I'm a middle school teacher. I get to work at 6:30 AM(prep my room for the day). I Usually don't leave until 4:30 PM, unless I have a faculty meeting or doing some extra tutoring, then I might get out by 5:30 PM. If there is a game (doesn't matter what kind -any sport) I'm there as either a coach or to act in as a monitor/supervise/security. On those nights I don't get home untill maybe 8 or 8:30 PM.
My whole point of this is to demonstrate where as teachers don't get paid nearly what they should, any extra work I do, is to the benefit of others, not myself.

You get weekends off, holidays off, and summer off.

To complain about your working hours is probably hilarious to anybody who works a private sector job.

eaglesalltheway
07-10-2008, 08:35 AM
Sorry dude, but teachers have one of the most underappreciated jobs in the world, and need to be paid more. I don't know any statistics or anything, but I do know this. All teachers have to deal with so much more than just the actual teaching, like CJ said, but they have to deal with whiney littel b*st*rds all day, and sometimes all evening or night. They wake up early in the morning, and sometimes don't come home until late in the day. Many of those hours aren't included in their pay. But once they get home, they have to grade paprers, reports, prepare their lesson plan, etc. Many oif my teachers put in three or four hours of work AT HOME, also not paid for. If you include the extra-curricular activities that teachers attend, plus constant summer classes that THEY MUST PAY FOR. I'm sorry, but most teachers are waaaay underpaid. They are guiding our future (sounds corny I know) CJ, you have a job that not many would be willing to handle, and anyone saying that your job is easy, or saying that you are compensated too much is delusional. Thanks for your work CJ.

Mr. Carter
07-10-2008, 08:38 AM
Sorry dude, but teachers have one of the most underappreciated jobs in the world, and need to be paid more. I don't know any statistics or anything, but I do know this. All teachers have to deal with so much more than just the actual teaching, like CJ said, but they have to deal with whiney littel b*st*rds all day, and sometimes all evening or night. They wake up early in the morning, and sometimes don't come home until late in the day. Many of those hours aren't included in their pay. But once they get home, they have to grade paprers, reports, prepare their lesson plan, etc. Many oif my teachers put in three or four hours of work AT HOME, also not paid for. If you include the extra-curricular activities that teachers attend, plus constant summer classes that THEY MUST PAY FOR. I'm sorry, but most teachers are waaaay underpaid. They are guiding our future (sounds corny I know) CJ, you have a job that not many would be willing to handle, and anyone saying that your job is easy, or saying that you are compensated too much is delusional. Thanks for your work CJ.

I never said teachers were overcompensated. I said that they have plenty of vacation time.

Also, there is a difference between having to work and volunteering. Teachers don't have to coach teams, supervise dances, or whatever else. It is a choice.

Gay Ork Wang
07-10-2008, 08:56 AM
Teacher doesnt stop weekends. U have to prepare all kinds of stuff and seriously teachers have to work alot harder than giving credit too. Vacation? Sure sounds nice. But everyone has vacations not just teachers. They cant really chose when to have vacations either. and alot alot of people dont work on weeksends either.

eaglesalltheway
07-10-2008, 09:59 AM
I never said teachers were overcompensated. I said that they have plenty of vacation time.

Also, there is a difference between having to work and volunteering. Teachers don't have to coach teams, supervise dances, or whatever else. It is a choice.

I know but you and other people were making it seem like they don't deserve more compensation, which is not the case. Yeah the teachers have volunteering, but they are expected to volunteer. They do have a choice, but not in the sense that we have a choice to go to a party or something like that.

eaglesalltheway
07-10-2008, 10:01 AM
Teacher doesnt stop weekends. U have to prepare all kinds of stuff and seriously teachers have to work alot harder than giving credit too. Vacation? Sure sounds nice. But everyone has vacations not just teachers. They cant really chose when to have vacations either. and alot alot of people dont work on weeksends either.

Absolutely correct, all of that. And for those summer months, those aren't paid vacation either. There is a teacher at my old High School who works for a roofer in the summer. That is tough work, and it is exhausting. I challenge anyone who says that a teacher just does that for summer fun, because roofing is not exactly a fun job, and you need to do it for the extra money that a teacher's salary doesn't provide.

Mr. Carter
07-10-2008, 10:01 AM
Teacher doesnt stop weekends. U have to prepare all kinds of stuff and seriously teachers have to work alot harder than giving credit too. Vacation? Sure sounds nice. But everyone has vacations not just teachers. They cant really chose when to have vacations either. and alot alot of people dont work on weeksends either.

Name one profession that has as much vacation time as teachers. 2 months in summer alone. Throw in weekends and long holidays and it's not close.

TheBuffaloBills
07-10-2008, 10:05 AM
I think being a teacher is tough..... However, if your in a crappy mood and you dont feel like teaching...... you can just pop in a video and make everyone happy.

eaglesalltheway
07-10-2008, 10:10 AM
Name one profession that has as much vacation time as teachers. 2 months in summer alone. Throw in weekends and long holidays and it's not close.

All of which are not paid for... And much of that itme is used preparing for school. Weeknihghts teachers go over Homework, papers, test lesson plans, etc, and on weekends, they are doing the same. There is a week after school that they are still there cleaning up, and there are two or as many as three weeks before the year starts to prepare, so at most, that summer vacation is a month. And throughout the summer, they are taking classes they have to pay for, and sometimes doing summer school like CJ. MAny teachers have both. You try working with that schedule and tell me how much free time you have.

Gay Ork Wang
07-10-2008, 10:22 AM
I think being a teacher is tough..... However, if your in a crappy mood and you dont feel like teaching...... you can just pop in a video and make everyone happy.
Its not like you have to give 100% in every other job everyday

eaglesalltheway
07-10-2008, 10:28 AM
Yeah I'm pretty sure no one does tha anyway.

Draft Ginger
07-10-2008, 10:49 AM
All of which are not paid for... And much of that itme is used preparing for school. Weeknihghts teachers go over Homework, papers, test lesson plans, etc, and on weekends, they are doing the same. There is a week after school that they are still there cleaning up, and there are two or as many as three weeks before the year starts to prepare, so at most, that summer vacation is a month. And throughout the summer, they are taking classes they have to pay for, and sometimes doing summer school like CJ. MAny teachers have both. You try working with that schedule and tell me how much free time you have.

Please. Teachers aren't marking, preparing, etc. every weeknight and all weekend. I know many teachers and they rarely work on weekends and don't even do much after school. Teachers have free time during the day to mark, prepare, etc. Plus, once you've taught a class there's not much prep to do.

As for me trying to work that schedule...that would be a vacation for me. I work 80+ hour weeks and get virtually no vacation.

eaglesalltheway
07-10-2008, 11:12 AM
Well good for you then. I was just saying that there is a reason many people aren't lining up to become teachers, and the reasons some are there is not for money. Where do yo work that you have 80+ hours? That is a lto man.

Edit: I do know that teachers aren't spending 100% of there time preparing and whatever, but they go home many days with work to do. The point I was trying to make was that teachers don't have all of that free time to do whatever they want, they literally bring their work home with them.

CJSchneider
07-10-2008, 11:59 AM
I never said teachers were overcompensated. I said that they have plenty of vacation time.

Also, there is a difference between having to work and volunteering. Teachers don't have to coach teams, supervise dances, or whatever else. It is a choice.

First, read the mathmatical analysis of incomes I posted earlier, you'll see there is a deficit in teacher pay.

Second, I wish you could e-mail this to my APA, Principal and Parish Middle School Director because they would laugh at you. The only one I volunteer for is coaching football. I get an extra $250 dollars for all the practice, prep and game hours I put in, it equates to less then 4.00 an hour. I do it because I love it and I get to spend time with the kids I teach outside of the classroom.

I am mandated to attended a minimum of 10 other after school events in the areas of other sporting events and dances. I have no choice on parent nights.

I think being a teacher is tough..... However, if your in a crappy mood and you dont feel like teaching...... you can just pop in a video and make everyone happy.

Really! So when State testing comes around and my kids aren't ready for the test, I get to say, "Hey, I don't feel like giving the kids this test because I used videos when i didn't feel like teaching or they didn't feel like learning. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if they LEARNED anything as a result' can we watch a video instead?

If you think 160 , one to two page long essays get graded by themselves, you are wrong. I do that after 2:30 when the bell rings and I usually am doing it weekends also.

Bottom line, I love what I do. My kids are better after they leave me then before they had me, and in many respects, that is my reward. Thankfully it is, because the pay does not match with the amount of work I do.

In closing, consider this as you read, analyze and respond to the posts in this forum. Someone had to teach you to read, think critically, synthesyze a new response and post it. Thank you, that is all.

Ness
07-10-2008, 12:03 PM
There's usually a lot of emphasis on the work force in Japan. A lot of people spend most of their days getting up early for work and they won't get home until very late at night. On the plus side, their economy and education is very good. I think it makes the Untied States look like a joke. But...the downside could be the actual "living" part. Which may be why Japan has the second highest suicide rate in the world, and their birth rate is negative one or something.

MetSox17
07-10-2008, 12:15 PM
I have an enormous amount of respect for teachers and everything they do. They essentially went to school for 4 years for a middle-class job. For every dedicated and loving teacher, i can find you ten that aren't. Being a good teacher and loving what you do takes a lot of patience, responsibility and maturity. Their pay is in no way near what they deserve for the things they need to put up with. People think that once they leave for the day the job is over, but it's far from it. Papers need to be graded, things need to be printed out, lesson plans need to be arranged. Then for some kid to come in and just ruin your day by acting like a complete brat.

Props to CJ and for everyone else looking into becoming a teacher, because the ones that really love their job are the main reason i'm still in school and about to graduate. I was lucky to have grown up with plenty of great teachers, and i'm eternally grateful to them. The end.

Draft Ginger
07-10-2008, 01:25 PM
First, read the mathmatical analysis of incomes I posted earlier, you'll see there is a deficit in teacher pay.

Second, I wish you could e-mail this to my APA, Principal and Parish Middle School Director because they would laugh at you. The only one I volunteer for is coaching football. I get an extra $250 dollars for all the practice, prep and game hours I put in, it equates to less then 4.00 an hour. I do it because I love it and I get to spend time with the kids I teach outside of the classroom.

I am mandated to attended a minimum of 10 other after school events in the areas of other sporting events and dances. I have no choice on parent nights.


Like I said, I never said anything about teacher incomes, simply that they get a ton of vacation.

So you have to stay late a total of 10 times a year? Boohoo.

CJSchneider
07-10-2008, 01:38 PM
Please read this again. Additions for clarification is in bold.

I get to work at 6:30 AM (prep my room for the day). I usually don't leave until 4:30 PM, school lets out at 2:30 unless I have a faculty meeting these are mandatory or doing some extra tutoring, these are because i care then I might get out by 5:30 PM. If there is a game (doesn't matter what kind -any sport) I'm there as either a coach or to act in as a monitor/supervise/security. On those nights I don't get home untill maybe 8 or 8:30 PM. When Im the coach, football and girls softball - those don't count into the 10 - 10 are mandatory, i'm there the rest of the time because, again, I care.

Draft Ginger
07-10-2008, 01:54 PM
Please read this again. Additions for clarification is in bold.

I get to work at 6:30 AM (prep my room for the day). I usually don't leave until 4:30 PM, school lets out at 2:30 unless I have a faculty meeting these are mandatory or doing some extra tutoring, these are because i care then I might get out by 5:30 PM. If there is a game (doesn't matter what kind -any sport) I'm there as either a coach or to act in as a monitor/supervise/security. On those nights I don't get home untill maybe 8 or 8:30 PM. When Im the coach, football and girls softball - those don't count into the 10 - 10 are mandatory, i'm there the rest of the time because, again, I care.

Many parents that are not teachers volunteer, supervise, and coach in the community. I'm saying it's unfair to count it as part of your job unless it's mandatory. Is the guy who works 9-5 counting the time he spends coaching hockey and soccer towards how much he works? Or the time he spends volunteering at the local school for their after-school events? No.

The truth is that teachers have an extraordinary amount of time off which is a very nice benefit of the career. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying it's easy or teachers are overpaid or anything like that, just that they have a lot of time off.

eaglesalltheway
07-10-2008, 02:02 PM
Many parents that are not teachers volunteer, supervise, and coach in the community. I'm saying it's unfair to count it as part of your job unless it's mandatory. Is the guy who works 9-5 counting the time he spends coaching hockey and soccer towards how much he works? Or the time he spends volunteering at the local school for their after-school events? No.

The truth is that teachers have an extraordinary amount of time off which is a very nice benefit of the career. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying it's easy or teachers are overpaid or anything like that, just that they have a lot of time off.

But here is where your argument is flawed, that "time off" is filled with work and work related activities" Read what he writes, 14 hour days are not fun for anyone, and when you take into account your only getting paid for 7 or 8 of those hours, it is less fun. Again not insulting CJ here, but at a teachers' salary only getting paid for half of your time that you are working in a day is unfair. Weekends are filled with work related activites like grading papers. You are right, terachers do have a weekend, but the average teacher has less free time on their weekends than any ohter person who supposedly gets weekends off. Those vacations, also filled with work for the schools. Yeah they get a little time off, but once again, I can guarantee that teachers are busy more than the students during those vacations. I don't have any idea exactly how much time is spent as a teacher with work at home, but I would wager to guess that at least an average of two hours a night are devoted for schoolwork for teachers. And if you read my posts, the summer is filled with many other things that teachers must do. What is comes down to is this. Yeah they technically aren't at work, but they are still working a whole lot of the time they aren't "at work".

bantx
07-10-2008, 02:36 PM
For the people who think teaching is such a easy job, teachers are one of the hardest workers and they get paid less, they stay after school for tutoring they dont get paid for that, they get home they have to grade papers and get ready for the next day, weekends grade more papers. And the summers and breaks, lets say the states has a new way to teach or something they want to be taught state wide they would have to go to a workshop and that is usually in the summer. My teacher has explained this to me already so i can understand how much work a teacher has to do and how much time it takes to be a teacher.

Draft Ginger
07-10-2008, 03:07 PM
For the people who think teaching is such a easy job, teachers are one of the hardest workers and they get paid less, they stay after school for tutoring they dont get paid for that, they get home they have to grade papers and get ready for the next day, weekends grade more papers. And the summers and breaks, lets say the states has a new way to teach or something they want to be taught state wide they would have to go to a workshop and that is usually in the summer. My teacher has explained this to me already so i can understand how much work a teacher has to do and how much time it takes to be a teacher.

When is your teacher going to teach you to write a paragraph that is actually readable?

awfullyquiet
07-10-2008, 03:09 PM
When is your teacher going to teach you to write a paragraph that is actually readable?

Texas does that.

bantx
07-10-2008, 03:11 PM
When is your teacher going to teach you to write a paragraph that is actually readable?

i graduated so he taught me something and if thats all u can say that just shows how much u know, go ahead and make some more assumptions about how easy being a teacher is

CJSchneider
07-10-2008, 03:21 PM
Many parents that are not teachers volunteer, supervise, and coach in the community.

I teach in an inner-city, high poverty, 99% minority school. Parental support
is nil.

Now, to attempt to put a positive end to this, yes, teachers do receive more vacation time then other professions. I will concede that point, if you will concede that I am not fairly paid for the time I do work.

For those who have -reped, please, do not feel the need to do so in this situation. Mr. Carter/Draft Ginger have done nothing wrong in my eyes. They have expressed their opinion, which I fully support; an action which proves how wonderful the country in which I teach is.
It is my honest opinion that we can debate this topic intelligently without "arguing" or making anyone create a new account out of fear of a bad reputation.

Draft Ginger
07-10-2008, 04:40 PM
I teach in an inner-city, high poverty, 99% minority school. Parental support
is nil.

Now, to attempt to put a positive end to this, yes, teachers do receive more vacation time then other professions. I will concede that point, if you will concede that I am not fairly paid for the time I do work.

For those who have -reped, please, do not feel the need to do so in this situation. Mr. Carter/Draft Ginger have done nothing wrong in my eyes. They have expressed their opinion, which I fully support; an action which proves how wonderful the country in which I teach is.
It is my honest opinion that we can debate this topic intelligently without "arguing" or making anyone create a new account out of fear of a bad reputation.

I really have no idea what you are compensated, so I can't really comment on that. From what I hear, teachers in America are underpaid. In Canada, I think they receive pretty fair compensation. I always question whether paying teachers more money would even improve the quality of teachers.

Like I've been saying all along, I appreciate what teachers do, and I'm sure some of you are undercompensated.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-10-2008, 04:56 PM
I always question whether paying teachers more money would even improve the quality of teachers.

It would certainly attract more people to the profession, and when there's a real dearth of quality teachers out there, it isn't going out on much of a limb to suggest that making the job more attractive would attract more people.

As it stands, really smart people can make so much more in the private sector.

The Unseen
07-10-2008, 05:25 PM
Like Ness said, it's kind of a cultural thing. Koreans work a whole lotta hours too, so perhaps it is something in Oriental culture? Don't wanna sound like I'm stereotyping here, but it's based on fact. This overworking has positive effects, like great academic scores when compared to around the world. But it has alot of negative effects, like the high suicidal rate that Ness mentioned.

CJSchneider
07-10-2008, 05:54 PM
I always question whether paying teachers more money would even improve the quality of teachers.

I can tell you that it would not make anyone a better teacher. If anything, I would be able to spend more on my class (which I have no problem with). The argument from a teacher's standpoint is "pay me what I am worth, not what is left." , and I think anyone could agree with that

It would certainly attract more people to the profession, and when there's a real dearth of quality teachers out there, it isn't going out on much of a limb to suggest that making the job more attractive would attract more people.

This is very true and many teachers (namely those of us who are doing our jobs and making a difference) support this idea as well as being paid a bonus based on test scores. I qualified for a $250 bonus because 75% or more of my 8th grade students increased their state testing score over the assigned growth targert (As you can see, they even give us the bottomof the barrel in bonuses go also)



As it stands, really smart people can make so much more in the private sector.

Not even smart people. I'll give you an example, my ex-neighbor worked for Bell-South. He had an assosciates degree in electronics. He worked 15-20 hours over-time a month and made more then my wife and I (who is also a teacher) combined. He was a basic cable lineman. Nothing against him because he was my friend, but I was more educated then he was by far.

In all honesty, due to me training in the military, I could easily go out and get a job as a telecommunications engineer. However, you will never ever have a phone line look you in the eye and say thank you and mean it. A telephone pole will never ever give you the "now I get it" look, which is priceless.
I love what I do and despite having the skills to do something else, I won't because the intangibles of being a teacher are unimaginable, however, I can assure you i work as much if not more than your "average joe" despite two and a half months off during the summer.

Brent
07-10-2008, 06:04 PM
Like I've been saying all along, I appreciate what teachers do, and I'm sure some of you are undercompensated.
I don't know about other states but if you are a teacher in Texas, you can expect to earn a starting salary of roughly 35k a year, which is pretty normal for the majority of schools in the state. There are others that start their teachers out at 40k and the most one will ever see it 45k (this is reserved for those who majored in a science or in mathematics, which are in the highest demand). That might seem like a lot to some of you but there isn't much increase in salary over your career unless you have a Master's degree or PhD but if you have either of those, you are probably going to get a position as lecturer or professor at a university because it would pay more and be a more prestigious job.

Anyway, on to the matter of compensation. In Texas, a teacher's pension is actually pretty respectable, especially if you work for a long damn time. My great aunt was a teacher in the state of Texas for 40 years. She taught 4th grade kids that entire time and when she retired she received nice pension payments each month. I don't remember the exact amount but let's just say wasn't a low number for a pension. Teachers may not earn a lot while they are working but teach for a long time and you shall reap the benefits of doing so.

And, like CJ has said many times, if you have a passion for teaching, it's more than just the salary.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-10-2008, 06:24 PM
This is very true and many teachers (namely those of us who are doing our jobs and making a difference) support this idea as well as being paid a bonus based on test scores.

Which tests are we talking about here?

CJSchneider
07-10-2008, 06:39 PM
LEAP and iLEAP (Louisiana State tests)

BlindSite
07-10-2008, 07:11 PM
I used to work 55 hours a week and once I worked 22 days straight.

Gay Ork Wang
07-10-2008, 07:27 PM
I used to work 55 hours a week and once I worked 22 days straight.
GOOD FOR YOU!!!!!!!