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Number 10
12-28-2008, 09:02 AM
i dont think we'll be getting NO's 2nd, vilma was traded with incetives to NO from NYJ for at least a 3rd, and he had a good season and started every game, so we're getting a 1st in 2009 most likely

We are not getting a 1st.

scottyboy
12-28-2008, 09:41 AM
i dont think we'll be getting NO's 2nd, vilma was traded with incetives to NO from NYJ for at least a 3rd, and he had a good season and started every game, so we're getting a 1st in 2009 most likely

the Saints have a plan to keep Vilma but also just give us a 2nd and give the Jets a 3rd. There's a loophole on how/when Vilma re-signs and whatnot.

either way I'm very fhappy, this is a deep draft class, and let's be honest, the Saints gave us a 2nd and a 5th for 50 catches, and 483 yards...

(Boss had 33, 384, 6 TD's, and one less headache!)

bigbluedefense
12-30-2008, 07:22 PM
i was looking at some Spikes tape...

do you think he's a little too finesse to play for us? he just doesn't come off as a mean MFer if you get what im saying. i don't see him being a downhill get your hands dirty type of guy. he just seems more like a Cover 2 type of Backer to me.

ive seen limited action of him though. i need to really analyze him during the Bowl game.

D-Unit
12-30-2008, 07:24 PM
Nah, he's a nasty muthafkr... Don't worry about finesse. He's a downhill LB in every sense of the word.

...just one man's opinion.

Forenci
12-30-2008, 08:33 PM
i was looking at some Spikes tape...

do you think he's a little too finesse to play for us? he just doesn't come off as a mean MFer if you get what im saying. i don't see him being a downhill get your hands dirty type of guy. he just seems more like a Cover 2 type of Backer to me.

ive seen limited action of him though. i need to really analyze him during the Bowl game.

Like D-Unit said, he is TOUGH. I recall seeing him toss a couple offensive linemen to the side like it was nothing in the Alabama game.

He's got a lot of strength I'd say, just from having seen him play a bit.

Number 10
12-30-2008, 10:40 PM
i was looking at some Spikes tape...

do you think he's a little too finesse to play for us? he just doesn't come off as a mean MFer if you get what im saying. i don't see him being a downhill get your hands dirty type of guy. he just seems more like a Cover 2 type of Backer to me.

ive seen limited action of him though. i need to really analyze him during the Bowl game.

Spikes has a shot at being the best LB in this draft. Not sure where the "soft" notion is coming from, he is an intimidating presence in the middle.

giantsfan
12-31-2008, 02:51 PM
i was looking at some Spikes tape...

do you think he's a little too finesse to play for us? he just doesn't come off as a mean MFer if you get what im saying. i don't see him being a downhill get your hands dirty type of guy. he just seems more like a Cover 2 type of Backer to me.

ive seen limited action of him though. i need to really analyze him during the Bowl game.

What tape of Spikes did you find? I'm pretty sure Brandon Spikes hits things in his sleep so I don't know how you see him as too finesse, he could fill the kiwi role on this team, replace AP or give us a stud WLB. If he's at our pick and we pass it better be for a franchise LT or maybe either Hardy or Raji.

bigbluedefense
12-31-2008, 03:43 PM
Im not sold on him yet. Maybe I need to see more of him. I think his combine will be important, bc right now I question how tough he can be at the NFL level.

He disappeared too much for my liking in the limited time i seen him.

bigbluedefense
12-31-2008, 03:49 PM
An interesting name to me is William Moore. I believe that a Chris Horton like SS would do wonders for our defense. I think Moore, while overweight and not the ballhawk he used to be, can be that kind of guy for us at SS. If he can get down to 215 or even 220, i think he'd be a great SS.

I like his tackling, the way he flows to the ball, his blitzing, the only thing I question with him is coverage obviously, but I think the added weight played a huge role in that. If he can get his weight down, I think the guy can be a round 2 steal.

Kenny and Moore as our 2 safeties would be great for us. Especially since we run so much zone blitz, having 2 safeties with range like that would really allow us to disguise our coverages really well. I look at tape of the Redskins and just marvel at what they are able to do with those 2 guys moving around presnap. Moore would give us that flexibility,and the run stuffing presence we need at SS.

bigbluedefense
12-31-2008, 04:20 PM
A couple of other notes:

Im putting Eugene Monroe ahead of Michael Oher. Both hold their point equally, but Monroe's footwork is better, and he has faster feet.


Not that it matters to us, but Everrette Brown is the next DeMarcus Ware.

Kenny Britt is the next Plaxico Burress.

Clint Sintim is the perfect SAM for our system. Theres a great chance he falls to us too with the insane DE depth this year.

Basically, this draft is loaded with 1st round talent. Since we ultimately have the luxury of going BPA, unless we're aggressive in going after a LT i see no reason why we shouldnt sit home and get 3 quality players in the first 2 rounds. this draft could really build up the talent on our team.

NotoriousT
12-31-2008, 11:05 PM
Couple of my opinions:

-Not sure why everyone is so intent on changing up our o-line. Seriously guys, we have the best bunch in the entire league and they're all locked up for a while IIRC. You know the saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Jason Peters? He's given up something like 10.5 sacks this year and made the Pro Bowl based on his name. *starts over-a-ted chant* Not a good idea. Like I said, we have the best OL in the league, spending a 1st rounder on an LT is a waste. Sure Diehl struggles with speed rushers at times but he's improved from last season and isn't a liability like some here make him seem. Max Unger looks like a stud but we have Shaun O'Hara, a stud of our own who's under contract for at least another 2 or 3 years, just made the Pro Bowl (deservedly so unlike Peters), knows our system, and most importantly has chemistry with the rest of our line and Eli. I see absolutely no reason to change anything along our line, other than adding some back-ups.

- Fred Robbins is severely underrated by you guys. He's been great for us and gets great penetration from the DT spot. Remember he's been playing with TWO broken hands the past month or two and has had a bum shoulder for the past couple weeks. Cofield has improved in almost every aspect of the game from last year. Sure he could be upgraded but I don't view DT as a HUGE need although adding a quality guy like Raji certainly wouldn't hurt.

-LB is our biggest need by far. Danny Clark is Mr. Invisible, Chase Blackburn is a great back-up and special teamer but not a full time starter. Pierce is smart as hell but he's really lost a step. If we can put two good LBs next to him though, his deficiencies can be hidden to an extent and his shelf extended for another 2 years (when his contract is up I believe). FTR, I really like Kehl and have no idea why he isn't getting more playing time. He's made more plays in the Pittsburgh and Minnesota games than Clark has all season. Still, I'd like to see a LB drafted early to be a starter and another one potentially drafted to develop behind Pierce (I know that we have Goff but the guy has been hurt multiple times this season doing nothing but playing special teams. That concerns me a lot).

- Butler has improved a lot from last season but I think he's an FA and I feel like he and Michael Johnson can be upgraded through this very deep safety class. Johnson is too aggressive and that has a big effect on why we give up so many long runs. Watch the Vikings, Eagles, and Cowboys games and you'll most likely see Johnson stumbling behind the RBs as he tries to recover from charging the line too aggressively.

Needs in order IMO:

LB
WR (if Plax doesn't return)
S
DL
OL

Big_Pete
01-01-2009, 05:34 AM
With three picks in the first two rounds, WR could be a definate option

Personally I have serious doubts that Burress is back next year. We have no other genuine #1 WR on the roster. This year's WR class has plenty of talent and depth.

I also doubt Toomer will return, we have Hixon, Smith, Moss and Manningham all with ability and can do similar things on the field and all are alot cheaper and have alot more upside.

I think Tyree will likely be back (provided he can get back to 100%) as well which will be a big boost to our special teams.

The question is, which WRs between the late 1st and late 2nd are genuine #1 WR options and good fits for the Giants.

scottyboy
01-01-2009, 09:27 AM
Couple of my opinions:

-Not sure why everyone is so intent on changing up our o-line. Seriously guys, we have the best bunch in the entire league and they're all locked up for a while IIRC. You know the saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Jason Peters? He's given up something like 10.5 sacks this year and made the Pro Bowl based on his name. *starts over-a-ted chant* Not a good idea. Like I said, we have the best OL in the league, spending a 1st rounder on an LT is a waste. Sure Diehl struggles with speed rushers at times but he's improved from last season and isn't a liability like some here make him seem. Max Unger looks like a stud but we have Shaun O'Hara, a stud of our own who's under contract for at least another 2 or 3 years, just made the Pro Bowl (deservedly so unlike Peters), knows our system, and most importantly has chemistry with the rest of our line and Eli. I see absolutely no reason to change anything along our line, other than adding some back-ups.

- Fred Robbins is severely underrated by you guys. He's been great for us and gets great penetration from the DT spot. Remember he's been playing with TWO broken hands the past month or two and has had a bum shoulder for the past couple weeks. Cofield has improved in almost every aspect of the game from last year. Sure he could be upgraded but I don't view DT as a HUGE need although adding a quality guy like Raji certainly wouldn't hurt.

-LB is our biggest need by far. Danny Clark is Mr. Invisible, Chase Blackburn is a great back-up and special teamer but not a full time starter. Pierce is smart as hell but he's really lost a step. If we can put two good LBs next to him though, his deficiencies can be hidden to an extent and his shelf extended for another 2 years (when his contract is up I believe). FTR, I really like Kehl and have no idea why he isn't getting more playing time. He's made more plays in the Pittsburgh and Minnesota games than Clark has all season. Still, I'd like to see a LB drafted early to be a starter and another one potentially drafted to develop behind Pierce (I know that we have Goff but the guy has been hurt multiple times this season doing nothing but playing special teams. That concerns me a lot).

- Butler has improved a lot from last season but I think he's an FA and I feel like he and Michael Johnson can be upgraded through this very deep safety class. Johnson is too aggressive and that has a big effect on why we give up so many long runs. Watch the Vikings, Eagles, and Cowboys games and you'll most likely see Johnson stumbling behind the RBs as he tries to recover from charging the line too aggressively.

Needs in order IMO:

LB
WR (if Plax doesn't return)
S
DL
OL

scarily, I actually agreed with everything you said pretty much. Except for needs I'd drop safety down a bit. I feel Johnson and Kenny will start next year(if Butler walks) and a3rd safety shouldn't be too hard to sign or draft in a middle round.

and if Ward walks, I'd put RB right under WR...(or Jacobs for that matter...)

bigbluedefense
01-01-2009, 10:43 AM
Our run D is giving up big plays primarily bc Pierce is getting owned badly. He is simply not a good player. He cannot cover at all, he can't shed blocks and stop the run. He is worthless physically at this point in time.

As for our oline, a big reason why these blitzes are working against the Giants is because of 2 factors

1. with no Burress, we no longer have a WR who must have a double team so thats an extra blitzer/guy in the box.

2. Diehl cannot be trusted 1 on 1 with a premiere pass rusher so when they get him in situations where he is, he gets owned.


Thats the biggest issue with our offense. If we get a LT who can be trusted on an island, even with no Burress you will see a drastic improvement in our offense.

Forenci
01-01-2009, 11:19 AM
Our run D is giving up big plays primarily bc Pierce is getting owned badly. He is simply not a good player. He cannot cover at all, he can't shed blocks and stop the run. He is worthless physically at this point in time.

As for our oline, a big reason why these blitzes are working against the Giants is because of 2 factors

1. with no Burress, we no longer have a WR who must have a double team so thats an extra blitzer/guy in the box.

2. Diehl cannot be trusted 1 on 1 with a premiere pass rusher so when they get him in situations where he is, he gets owned.


Thats the biggest issue with our offense. If we get a LT who can be trusted on an island, even with no Burress you will see a drastic improvement in our offense.

Eh, Pierce isn't the only reason our run defense has struggled. Blackburn can't be a starter, period. I love his attitude and ability on special teams but he can't start for us at all. Clark is JAG at best and while he does from time to time make a play, he is just a fill in. I mean, you just described all three of our line backers in explaining Pierce. Chase is horrible in coverage, Clark is pretty bad, and Pierce obviously is too slow to cover anybody. Chase might be more physical, but that's about it.

I wouldn't say Pierce is worthless. He can still make some plays, albeit not like he used to. I'd still take him over all of our linebackers currently in a big spot because of the intangibles and intelligence he brings to the table.

We certainly need to bring in a big time linebacker though. I'd LOVE to get Spikes, and perhaps even more than him (if he came out) I'd love to get Mark Herzlich from Boston College. You talk about a guy who is physical at the point of attack and can do just about everything defensively, he's the guy. He's looks absolutely massive and plays with an intimidating style, surprisingly he looks very good in coverage, and he can rush the passer exceptionally well too.

bigbluedefense
01-01-2009, 11:21 AM
Eh, Pierce isn't the only reason our run defense has struggled. Blackburn can't be a starter, period. I love his attitude and ability on special teams but he can't start for us at all. Clark is JAG at best and while he does from time to time make a play, he is just a fill in. I mean, you just described all three of our line backers in explaining Pierce. Chase is horrible in coverage, Clark is pretty bad, and Pierce obviously is too slow to cover anybody. Chase might be more physical, but that's about it.

I wouldn't say Pierce is worthless. He can still make some plays, albeit not like he used to. I'd still take him over all of our linebackers currently in a big spot because of the intangibles and intelligence he brings to the table.

We certainly need to bring in a big time linebacker though. I'd LOVE to get Spikes, and perhaps even more than him (if he came out) I'd love to get Mark Herzlich from Boston College. You talk about a guy who is physical at the point of attack and can do just about everything defensively, he's the guy. He's looks absolutely massive and plays with an intimidating style, surprisingly he looks very good in coverage, and he can rush the passer exceptionally well too.

i don't get why Kehl isn't back in the starting lineup for us. at least Chase and Clark can shed blocks. Pierce can't even do that, and he's our MIKE.

Forenci
01-01-2009, 11:26 AM
i don't get why Kehl isn't back in the starting lineup for us. at least Chase and Clark can shed blocks. Pierce can't even do that, and he's our MIKE.

I agree, I'd like to see Kehl more as long as that injury he had earlier in the year isn't going to hinder him. Seeing him last week certainly makes me think it's not. I think he could be a really good option for us.

I just wish Gerris Wilkinson didn't disappear on us. Is he still injured? Never really knew what happened to him. He's a great coverage linebacker, really wish we had him around as he's probably our only linebacker who's good in coverage.

Turtlepower
01-01-2009, 11:37 AM
Our run D is giving up big plays primarily bc Pierce is getting owned badly. He is simply not a good player. He cannot cover at all, he can't shed blocks and stop the run. He is worthless physically at this point in time.

As for our oline, a big reason why these blitzes are working against the Giants is because of 2 factors

1. with no Burress, we no longer have a WR who must have a double team so thats an extra blitzer/guy in the box.

2. Diehl cannot be trusted 1 on 1 with a premiere pass rusher so when they get him in situations where he is, he gets owned.


Thats the biggest issue with our offense. If we get a LT who can be trusted on an island, even with no Burress you will see a drastic improvement in our offense.

I've been wondering about the possibility of us goig after a player like Gross who is an above-average pass-protector and also a phenominal run blocker for Carolina. I really like Gross and I think he is a perfect fit for our o-line.

NotoriousT
01-01-2009, 04:02 PM
BBD - Like I said, I disagree about replacing Diehl at LT. Yeah, he does struggle with elite pass rushers but then again, who doesn't? That's why those guys are considered elite. Otherwise, he's been pretty good and has definitely improved from last season. Who knows, maybe another year at LT and he gets even better? Not to mention that everybody seems to be forgetting about Rich Seubert who has been playing great, especially in the run game. I don't see any reason for either to be replaced.


scotty - If both Jacobs and Ward somehow get away then I would move RB up but not by much. I really have a lot of confidence in Bradshaw and Ware and believe that they can be our next great tandem. I believe Ware is a FA after this season but he could be signed for a cheap contract. Hopefully, though, we retain Jacobs because I think we've all seen how important he is to our offense.

As for safety, I like Michael Johnson but more as the Chase Blackburn of our DBs. He's a great back-up but I don't know if I want him starting next season. He's real aggressive, not that great in coverage, and I believe he can be upgraded. This safety class is stacked so if one of the top guys fell, I'd pounce on him in a heartbeat.

bigbluedefense
01-01-2009, 04:20 PM
i like the idea of nabbing William Moore with NO's 2nd. i think he's become underrated at this point. he's a big physical safety who is great in the box, if he sheds 15 or even 10 lbs, he'll greatly improve his range. love his tackling and his flow to the ball.

with our issues at LB, having a sledgehammer SS definitely helps us in our run defense.

as i stated in the underrated FA thread, I also like the idea of nabbing Kevin Vickerson from the Titans. he'll come cheap, and i think he has potential.

bigbluedefense
01-01-2009, 06:11 PM
Im currently breaking down USC players. I generally don't get a chance to watch much college football, so my chances of breaking down guys when watching games are limited. this is one of the few times i actually got to watch guys and break them down. i didn't pay attention to any Penn State players fyi.

-Kaluka Maiava: Ive been a big fan of this guy, and continue to be. he's always around the ball, he's always finishing plays, and he does a great job diagnosing plays. hes just a natural player, and a smart player. he's not the biggest guy, or the fastest, but he's big enough and fast enough. i like him as a mid round steal, i think he's very disrespected as a player among the masses. im not saying he'd be an instant starter, but he's at the very least, a very solid depth guy, which we can use with us most likely letting go of Wilk

-Clay Matthews: Im not sold on him at SAM anymore. He's too small. However, i love his motor, his coverage is solid, and he can rush the passer. In our attacking style of defense, he could work at WILL. he's not a 3-4 ILB like people want to believe, nor is he a SAM, he's simply not big or strong enough. but he'd work out well in our attacking D at WILL.

-Rey Malauga: very overrated. can't cover that well, takes horrible angles, just doesn't impress me. id stay away from him. im not impressed.

-Brian Cushing: he's an enigma to me. he doesn't look spectacular throughout the game. he looks solid, but nothing to rave about. he's just out there, away from the ball generally. then he blitzed once, and bc of his combination of speed and size, he overwhelmed the offense. and thats when i saw his potential. he's not gonna wow you with his run stuffing or coverage, albeit theyre both very solid, but as a rusher he can be a good player as a SAM for us. maybe even a MIKE depending on how smart he is.

-Fili Miola: kinda small, he demands doubles once in awhile, but i need to see more games of him. not sure if he's strong enough to be an NT for us, not sure if he's dominant enough to penetrate for us. kind of just a solid but not spectacular guy. i need to see more games.

-Mark Sanchez: not that it matters to us, but i think this guy is really good. love his footwork, he has a great arm, he makes reads, can snap the ball out quick, great accuracy, good mobility, anticipates guys getting open, can manipulate safeties, hes got it all. if i were a team in the market for a qb, and he declared, id give him a long hard look.

-Taylor Mays: its a pipedream that this guy falls, but he's really really good. laron landry good. maybe even better. some team in the top 10 will get a great player in this guy.

skiinginNJ
01-01-2009, 06:31 PM
cushing as a mike would be intriguing. similar to stewart bradley of the eagles


i wouldnt be against drafting 2 LB'ers relatively early considering how poor our unit is.





mays being paired up with phillips would be ridiculous

scottyboy
01-01-2009, 06:39 PM
first time I've really watched USC this year, and focused on their D.

Rey is what he is. Will rack up tackles in the middle of a 3-4, but that's about it. brings intensity though.

Haven't seen enough of Matthews this game but no negatives really.

Cushing is disappointing me today, not playing overally well

Maiava is freaking everywhere. I'd love him with our 2nd 2nd or our 3rd...

skiinginNJ
01-01-2009, 06:45 PM
there's no way it happens, but i would freak out if mays fell. that guy is a stud stud stud

scottyboy
01-01-2009, 06:46 PM
there's no way it happens, but i would freak out if mays fell. that guy is a stud stud stud

him and kenny? along with Ross and Webster? can you say ridiculous young secondary for YEARS to come? my lord haha

bigbluedefense
01-01-2009, 06:46 PM
Mays might be the best safety prospect ive seen since Sean Taylor. This guy is 235 lbs and he moves like a CB. its ridiculous seeing how much ground the guy covers. And did you see that hit? oh my god...

Maiava is most likely a 4th rounder at earliest according to what ive read. And in my eyes, he's an absolute steal at that point in the draft. id even spend a 3rd on him.

I like Clay as a WILL for us. I really like this guy. I think he'll fall in the draft, his early hype will drop once draft day rolls around. We might be able to nab him with our late 2nd.

skiinginNJ
01-01-2009, 06:55 PM
id like to see how clay tests at the combine before committing to him at WILL. he looks good in pursuit and attacking the line, but id like to see more of him in space.



and agree on mays, dude is a freaking stud.

bigbluedefense
01-01-2009, 07:12 PM
Clay has been dropping back a lot in coverage this 2nd half, and he's really impressing me. He has great speed, he has fluid hips, he ran toe for toe with a slot WR, he can play man or zone at the next level, im telling you, this guy would be a great WILL for us.

Ive said for so long now that I want a Lawrence Timmons like WILL in our system. Clay Matthews might be that guy. He has great sideline to sideline range, great speed, great motor, he can play downhill, and he's a great blitzer. I think he'd make an excellent WILL for us. He's not a SAM, he's not big enough, and he's not a MIKE, but I think as an attacking WILL, he'd be great.

And Maiava continues to impress me. Keyshawn put up his projections, he didn't even have Maiava on his board. Thats how underrated the guy is. The announcer brought up Maiava's name, and Keyshawn thought he was talking about Clay Matthews.

Cushing...not a fan right now. Outside of 1 blitz, he's done nothing. Not a fan. He hasn't shown me enough wow plays. Thats the first thing I look for in 1st round guys. He's been too invisible out there for my liking. And for a big guy, he got moved around too much for my liking.

skiinginNJ
01-01-2009, 07:18 PM
as i typed out the whole playing in space thing matthews has been dropping back a lot more and looking good, lol.

bigbluedefense
01-01-2009, 07:25 PM
its so odd, 2 of the 3 highly touted guys on this defense, Rey and Cushing, are the 2 guys that impressed me the least out there.

The unsung guys like Matthews and Maiava are the ones I like. Their CBs suck though.

Can't wait to see Oklahoma vs Florida. I really want to see Brandon Spikes live.

Geo
01-01-2009, 08:17 PM
Maiava reminds me of Freddy Keiaho.

NotoriousT
01-01-2009, 08:52 PM
I disagree with what you guys said about Rey. I thought he played well. Sure he's not flashy and didn't get his name called too much in the game but he was flying all over the place and got pressure up the gut a couple of times. Don't think he's overrated at all as long as you don't expect him to be some Patrick Willis freak of nature.

Matthews played a great game, dude was everywhere.


Check out this VT-Cincy game. Two guys I really like, Kam Chancellor and Connor Barwin, are playing and Kam just made a GREAT pick on the sidelines. I would love Chancellor in the 2nd or so.

skiinginNJ
01-01-2009, 09:01 PM
I disagree with what you guys said about Rey. I thought he played well. Sure he's not flashy and didn't get his name called too much in the game but he was flying all over the place and got pressure up the gut a couple of times. Don't think he's overrated at all as long as you don't expect him to be some Patrick Willis freak of nature.

Matthews played a great game, dude was everywhere.


Check out this VT-Cincy game. Two guys I really like, Kam Chancellor and Connor Barwin, are playing and Kam just made a GREAT pick on the sidelines. I would love Chancellor in the 2nd or so.


def a big fan of his, he is like a poor mans taylor mays, which is a pretty damn good player.

Forenci
01-01-2009, 09:19 PM
I agree with most of you about Cushing. Not only does he tend to disappear at times but he is WAY too injury prone. I mean, he could turn out to be a stud but I wouldn't take the risk on him because of the injuries and if he did turn out to be great I still wouldn't give it a second thought.

I would love to get Clay though. Not only can he cover and stop the run but he is a GREAT pass rusher. I've seen quite a few USC games and he could easily be a OLB in a 3-4 because he rushers the passer so well.

bigbluedefense
01-02-2009, 11:36 AM
Clay's combine is gonna be important for him. From my impressions of him after really getting a chance to break him down, he doesn't seem strong enough to play inside or outside in a 3-4, or SAM for us. he's too thin, even though he supposedly weighs like 240.

i think he weighs more like 235 to be honest, i think his weight is inflated on the usc website.

so his height, weight, and bench press will be important to me. i don't really care much for his 40 time, he plays fast and you can see he has the speed and motor to work in the NFL. the question is his strength.

I don't want Cushing. Like you said, even if he does pan out, I won't lose any sleep over it.

bigbluedefense
01-02-2009, 05:00 PM
nevermind, Im putting Oher ahead of Eugene Monroe again.

giantsfan
01-02-2009, 06:37 PM
nevermind, Im putting Oher ahead of Eugene Monroe again.

Jason Smith is better than both of them, he has the footwork of Monroe but he has much quicker feet and is much more fluid in space, he's not a great run blocker but neither are monroe or oher, if that kid falls into the 20s we have to trade up, the kid has Walter Jones potential.

Couple of my opinions:

-Not sure why everyone is so intent on changing up our o-line. Seriously guys, we have the best bunch in the entire league and they're all locked up for a while IIRC. You know the saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Jason Peters? He's given up something like 10.5 sacks this year and made the Pro Bowl based on his name. *starts over-a-ted chant* Not a good idea. Like I said, we have the best OL in the league, spending a 1st rounder on an LT is a waste. Sure Diehl struggles with speed rushers at times but he's improved from last season and isn't a liability like some here make him seem. Max Unger looks like a stud but we have Shaun O'Hara, a stud of our own who's under contract for at least another 2 or 3 years, just made the Pro Bowl (deservedly so unlike Peters), knows our system, and most importantly has chemistry with the rest of our line and Eli. I see absolutely no reason to change anything along our line, other than adding some back-ups.

- Fred Robbins is severely underrated by you guys. He's been great for us and gets great penetration from the DT spot. Remember he's been playing with TWO broken hands the past month or two and has had a bum shoulder for the past couple weeks. Cofield has improved in almost every aspect of the game from last year. Sure he could be upgraded but I don't view DT as a HUGE need although adding a quality guy like Raji certainly wouldn't hurt.

-LB is our biggest need by far. Danny Clark is Mr. Invisible, Chase Blackburn is a great back-up and special teamer but not a full time starter. Pierce is smart as hell but he's really lost a step. If we can put two good LBs next to him though, his deficiencies can be hidden to an extent and his shelf extended for another 2 years (when his contract is up I believe). FTR, I really like Kehl and have no idea why he isn't getting more playing time. He's made more plays in the Pittsburgh and Minnesota games than Clark has all season. Still, I'd like to see a LB drafted early to be a starter and another one potentially drafted to develop behind Pierce (I know that we have Goff but the guy has been hurt multiple times this season doing nothing but playing special teams. That concerns me a lot).

- Butler has improved a lot from last season but I think he's an FA and I feel like he and Michael Johnson can be upgraded through this very deep safety class. Johnson is too aggressive and that has a big effect on why we give up so many long runs. Watch the Vikings, Eagles, and Cowboys games and you'll most likely see Johnson stumbling behind the RBs as he tries to recover from charging the line too aggressively.

Needs in order IMO:

LB
WR (if Plax doesn't return)
S
DL
OL

I'm not saying we need to bring Jason Peters in but last season he was one of the best LTs in the league, along with Michael Roos and Joe Thomas, this year he missed camp and has been feuding with the bills management. I think if he's someplace where he's happy next season he's going to beast and be back to that top 2 level he was last season. He has incredibly quick feet and is a big guy who finishes his blocks. Diehl has done well, but getting a true franchise caliber LT would be huge for our Oline. As for Seubert he's doing well, but he can be upgraded upon and would be a very valuable super-sub.

Fred Robbens only does well every other season. He's a good starter but isn't special and isn't a beast against the run, he's jsut a very well rounded high motored starter, I'd like to see us add a NT with either our second second rounder or our third rounder. Terrance Taylor and Ron Brace are the two big boys I really like at that spot. Neither would replace Robbens or become starters, but they would improve our DT rotation by giving us a true run stuffer to rotate in that would help our run D and keep guys off our LBs.

I think that we need to add an edge guy be it at DE letting kiwi move back to SLB or at LB. I really think that question will be settled in the draft where the BPA will determine which direction we go. Kehl has shown me enough to where I think he could be our long term starter at the Will and I like Goff as future Mike or even Sam. All that said if there's no stud DE like Hardy available and there are LBs like Spikes or Herzlich at our first rounder that's the direction we have to go, those guys are going to be studs and would be great for our LB corps, although i wouldn't mind having a starting lineup of Kiwi - Pierce/Goff - Kehl with Chase and a mid rounder like maivai backing them up.

Johnson's run D is a big reason we could use an upgrade there but that said he isn't fatally bad, meaning if there's better value at other positions I have no problem passing on a S, although if William Moore or Kam Chancellor make it NO's pick and we grabbed one of them I'd be giddy. Moore needs to lose some weight and get healthy, but once he's done that he'll be a stud at SS, I'm not as high on Mays as other since I feel for a guy with his tools he should be more dominant and so I question his instincts and how quickly he can read plays and so I think Kam Chancellor is only a minor step down, he's also a great athlete with great size, not as freaky as mays but still a freak in his own right and he reacts very quickly.

With three picks in the first two rounds, WR could be a definate option

Personally I have serious doubts that Burress is back next year. We have no other genuine #1 WR on the roster. This year's WR class has plenty of talent and depth.

I also doubt Toomer will return, we have Hixon, Smith, Moss and Manningham all with ability and can do similar things on the field and all are alot cheaper and have alot more upside.

I think Tyree will likely be back (provided he can get back to 100%) as well which will be a big boost to our special teams.

The question is, which WRs between the late 1st and late 2nd are genuine #1 WR options and good fits for the Giants.

The only WRs I want on the Gmen are DHB in round 1, Kenny Britt at NO's pick and Ramses Barden with our second second rounder or third rounder. THose guys have the size and ability to stretch the field that our receiving corps is lacking without plax.

bigbluedefense
01-02-2009, 06:47 PM
Jason Smith is better than both of them, he has the footwork of Monroe but he has much quicker feet and is much more fluid in space, he's not a great run blocker but neither are monroe or oher, if that kid falls into the 20s we have to trade up, the kid has Walter Jones potential.



I'm not saying we need to bring Jason Peters in but last season he was one of the best LTs in the league, along with Michael Roos and Joe Thomas, this year he missed camp and has been feuding with the bills management. I think if he's someplace where he's happy next season he's going to beast and be back to that top 2 level he was last season. He has incredibly quick feet and is a big guy who finishes his blocks. Diehl has done well, but getting a true franchise caliber LT would be huge for our Oline. As for Seubert he's doing well, but he can be upgraded upon and would be a very valuable super-sub.

Fred Robbens only does well every other season. He's a good starter but isn't special and isn't a beast against the run, he's jsut a very well rounded high motored starter, I'd like to see us add a NT with either our second second rounder or our third rounder. Terrance Taylor and Ron Brace are the two big boys I really like at that spot. Neither would replace Robbens or become starters, but they would improve our DT rotation by giving us a true run stuffer to rotate in that would help our run D and keep guys off our LBs.

I think that we need to add an edge guy be it at DE letting kiwi move back to SLB or at LB. I really think that question will be settled in the draft where the BPA will determine which direction we go. Kehl has shown me enough to where I think he could be our long term starter at the Will and I like Goff as future Mike or even Sam. All that said if there's no stud DE like Hardy available and there are LBs like Spikes or Herzlich at our first rounder that's the direction we have to go, those guys are going to be studs and would be great for our LB corps, although i wouldn't mind having a starting lineup of Kiwi - Pierce/Goff - Kehl with Chase and a mid rounder like maivai backing them up.

Johnson's run D is a big reason we could use an upgrade there but that said he isn't fatally bad, meaning if there's better value at other positions I have no problem passing on a S, although if William Moore or Kam Chancellor make it NO's pick and we grabbed one of them I'd be giddy. Moore needs to lose some weight and get healthy, but once he's done that he'll be a stud at SS, I'm not as high on Mays as other since I feel for a guy with his tools he should be more dominant and so I question his instincts and how quickly he can read plays and so I think Kam Chancellor is only a minor step down, he's also a great athlete with great size, not as freaky as mays but still a freak in his own right and he reacts very quickly.



The only WRs I want on the Gmen are DHB in round 1, Kenny Britt at NO's pick and Ramses Barden with our second second rounder or third rounder. THose guys have the size and ability to stretch the field that our receiving corps is lacking without plax.

Isn't Jason Smith too small though? He's only 300 lbs. He sounds like a ZBS guy.

giantsfan
01-02-2009, 08:18 PM
Isn't Jason Smith too small though? He's only 300 lbs. He sounds like a ZBS guy.

He's still in the process of converting to LT from TE. He's still got some beefing up to do but I think he's got the frame to do it without losing that ridiculous footspeed, he's got a big chest and shoulders for a guy that light. Then again I'm a huge fan of his in any scheme since he'll be a shutdown pass blocker and with some work will be a very good run blocker, he certainly does a great job of getting to the second level already and with some more power he'll be able to move people at the LOS. I wouldn't start Smith as a rookie because of that problem you mentioned but he'd be great depth as a rook and should be ready to start as a sophomore, when i think McKenzie's deal is up.

OSUGiants17
01-02-2009, 10:04 PM
Who would you guys rather have come draft day? Sintim, Spikes, or Mathews?

giantsfan
01-02-2009, 10:19 PM
Curry > Orakpo > Spikes > Hardy > Herzlich > Sintim >>> Michael Johnson > Tyson Jackson > Matthews

scottyboy
01-03-2009, 11:41 AM
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/42/426395.jpg

we need this man to fill the "gap" left by Strahan! (and Plaxico...)

Giantsfan1080
01-03-2009, 01:00 PM
Get it done Jerry!! In all seriousness though I have read the Giants are very interested in Britt. Who knows if it's true but I'm sure they have seen him a lot and I know a lot of the Giants go to games. They are always on the sidelines for the weekday games.

Number 10
01-03-2009, 01:09 PM
Get it done Jerry!! In all seriousness though I have read the Giants are very interested in Britt. Who knows if it's true but I'm sure they have seen him a lot and I know a lot of the Giants go to games. They are always on the sidelines for the weekday games.

I'm not disagreeing...but just FYI the Giants have a rep at 90% of Rutgers games regardless.

Giantsfan1080
01-03-2009, 01:20 PM
I'm not disagreeing...but just FYI the Giants have a rep at 90% of Rutgers games regardless.

Well yeah that was my point. I wasn't saying they were there because of Britt but since they always have someone there they would have the best scouting report on him than any other team would besides the Jets. I'm sure they know how good of a player he really is since they've seen him so much.

Number 10
01-03-2009, 09:43 PM
This is for sure. The Giants are going to be in prime position to get an outstanding value pick because of the early declarations and their current roster position.

Number 10
01-03-2009, 11:04 PM
Arizona's Eben Britton declared.

He doesn't get the recognition he deserves. He isn't in Oher's class but the gap between him, Monroe, and the Smiths is not that great. He is similar to Diehl but he has much better footwork, much better pass protector.

Number 10
01-03-2009, 11:16 PM
As for the USC guys....here are my thoughts-

-I was and still am a fan of Cushing. He brings to the table exactly what we want out of our strong side linebackers. Excellent blitzer that collapses the pocket. Holds his ground vs. offensive linemen and is a sure tackler with a long wingspan. He is a typical, Parcells-type BA that plays with a swagger. There are weaknesses in his game when it comes to coverage, but we don't have anyone on our roster that can play the strong side and cover better than him. Think about that. We need a better cover man in the middle, not the strong side.

-Taylor Mays will be a top 10 pick, possibly top 5. He won't be here, not a chance.

-Clay Matthews is still in the same position in my book. He is a slightly more athletic Chase Blackburn, and I think he is a middle rounder. Fun player to watch but if you noticed, he has the least amount of responsibility on that USC defense. Spend a 2nd round pick on a player that is a special teams prospect with slight potential as a LB? No thanks.

giantsfan
01-03-2009, 11:27 PM
Arizona's Eben Britton declared.

He doesn't get the recognition he deserves. He isn't in Oher's class but the gap between him, Monroe, and the Smiths is not that great. He is similar to Diehl but he has much better footwork, much better pass protector.

I like Britton a lot, I'd put him just a notch under Oher and Monroe simply because of how raw he is. I think his ceiling is only below the Smiths.

Wait...are you trying to tell me you like Oher more than Andre Smith? I like Jason Smith more than Oher but I could see why others don't, but Andre Smith, really?

Assuming Okung doesn't come out here's how I like the tackles:
Andre Smith
Jason Smith
Eugene Monroe
Michael Oher
Eben Britton

all of them should be top 20 picks IMO.

As for the USC guys....here are my thoughts-

-I was and still am a fan of Cushing. He brings to the table exactly what we want out of our strong side linebackers. Excellent blitzer that collapses the pocket. Holds his ground vs. offensive linemen and is a sure tackler with a long wingspan. He is a typical, Parcells-type BA that plays with a swagger. There are weaknesses in his game when it comes to coverage, but we don't have anyone on our roster that can play the strong side and cover better than him. Think about that. We need a better cover man in the middle, not the strong side.

-Taylor Mays will be a top 10 pick, possibly top 5. He won't be here, not a chance.

-Clay Matthews is still in the same position in my book. He is a slightly more athletic Chase Blackburn, and I think he is a middle rounder. Fun player to watch but if you noticed, he has the least amount of responsibility on that USC defense. Spend a 2nd round pick on a player that is a special teams prospect with slight potential as a LB? No thanks.

Clay Matthews is a much more fluid athlete than cushing. I don't like either one in the first, wouldn't mind either one at the end of round two though. Sintim, Spikes and Herzlich are all a lot better LB prospects.

Number 10
01-03-2009, 11:30 PM
I like Smith, but he is a major gamble. He struggles to stay in proper shape, his reach is average, and his footwork is very inconsistent. He'll likely grade out as a top 20 player on my board but like Glenn Dorsey in 2008, he'll get overhyped by the media and for those that don't see enough of him will easily buy into it.

Oher is a notch ahead of every LT in this class.

Number 10
01-04-2009, 09:58 AM
So now that I have had my final look at the majority of the prospects, I'll probably just throw out some random thoughts.

-BJ Raji is going to grade out as a top 15 player on my board. Everyone looks at him as a plugger in the middle that takes on double teams and frees up the LBs. While he can do that, he moves with tremendous quicks inside the box. I've timed him on his outside stunts and he moves quicker than Peria Jerry of Ole Miss. He could be an absolute force in this defense. You'll hear me talk a lot about him between now and April.

-Speaking of Jerry, I'm not as high on him as some are. He is a disruptor that gets into the gap quickly, but he doesn't create after the snap often enough. He lacks strength and won't do much early on in his career. Reminds me of Babineaux of Atlanta, a guy I think is overrated. As for his teammate Hardy, he is a boom or bust type. Probably the most natural DE of this class but disappears at times. I liked what I saw out of him a couple days ago on a bad wheel. He moves really well in space and I don't want to get anyone over-excited about him, but he has has little bit of Osi in him in terms of how he moves on the field.

-I love what Kevin Boss has brought to the table in terms of progression that past couple of years and he is here to stay for a long time. But I wouldn't be surprised to see us go after a TE with one of our 4 top 100 picks. I love Pettigrew and if he falls, a possibility, to one of our 2nd round picks I may have to bite. He is a Heath Miller type blocker and has the receiving skills of Boss, perhaps even better. Give Eli two 6'5-6'6 tight ends to roam the middle of the field and you'd be surprised to see how much our passing game can increase in quality. I have Coffman, right now, below a lot of tight ends but if he does drop into round 4, I might take a flyer on him. He is the best pass catcher but the fact that he started less than 6% of Missouri's plays in 2008 with his hand on the ground screams project to me. Not even a thought in the top 100.

Forenci
01-04-2009, 10:10 AM
So now that I have had my final look at the majority of the prospects, I'll probably just throw out some random thoughts.

-BJ Raji is going to grade out as a top 15 player on my board. Everyone looks at him as a plugger in the middle that takes on double teams and frees up the LBs. While he can do that, he moves with tremendous quicks inside the box. I've timed him on his outside stunts and he moves quicker than Peria Jerry of Ole Miss. He could be an absolute force in this defense. You'll hear me talk a lot about him between now and April.

-Speaking of Jerry, I'm not as high on him as some are. He is a disruptor that gets into the gap quickly, but he doesn't create after the snap often enough. He lacks strength and won't do much early on in his career. Reminds me of Babineaux of Atlanta, a guy I think is overrated. As for his teammate Hardy, he is a boom or bust type. Probably the most natural DE of this class but disappears at times. I liked what I saw out of him a couple days ago on a bad wheel. He moves really well in space and I don't want to get anyone over-excited about him, but he has has little bit of Osi in him in terms of how he moves on the field.

-I love what Kevin Boss has brought to the table in terms of progression that past couple of years and he is here to stay for a long time. But I wouldn't be surprised to see us go after a TE with one of our 4 top 100 picks. I love Pettigrew and if he falls, a possibility, to one of our 2nd round picks I may have to bite. He is a Heath Miller type blocker and has the receiving skills of Boss, perhaps even better. Give Eli two 6'5-6'6 tight ends to roam the middle of the field and you'd be surprised to see how much our passing game can increase in quality. I have Coffman, right now, below a lot of tight ends but if he does drop into round 4, I might take a flyer on him. He is the best pass catcher but the fact that he started less than 6% of Missouri's plays in 2008 with his hand on the ground screams project to me. Not even a thought in the top 100.

Absolutely in disagreement about Pettigrew. He's a wonderful talent but you can't touch him with a ten foot pole because he's got some MAJOR character issues. He was supposed to be arrested for assault, or was at least charged with it at some point I believe. I would never want him on this Giants team unless it was with a 6th or 7th round pick where he can be easily cut (ala Ahmad Bradshaw), even then I still say no.

Especially with the crap we've had to deal with Plax. Not a chance in the world I think Reese takes him, either. He's been pretty good about that. Any players with character concerns were all taken way below their value and really had very minor problems like Bradshaw who supposedly stole a video game system when he was a minor or Mario Manningham who's just dumb and smoked pot a couple times.

Number 10
01-04-2009, 12:47 PM
Pettigrew had one inicident, ONE.

He basically got drunk and involved in a fight at a party. Cops tried to get a hold of him and he pushed one away. It was initially blown out of proportion and his penalty was downgraded soon after. You're going to bump him down 5 rounds because of that?

Number 10
01-04-2009, 01:12 PM
Add the fact that Pettitgrew has long been mentioned as a team leader that has come a long way since his freshman year in the weight room and as a blocker.

Number 10
01-04-2009, 02:17 PM
Another name I am waiting on is LSU WR Brandon LaFell. He is a junior, but behind Crabtree, he is the top WR prospect or potential prospect in this draft. Runs like a gazelle in space but gets intitial separation underneath with his low to the ground running style. Solid pair of hands and top notch blocker.

Forenci
01-04-2009, 07:14 PM
Pettigrew had one inicident, ONE.

He basically got drunk and involved in a fight at a party. Cops tried to get a hold of him and he pushed one away. It was initially blown out of proportion and his penalty was downgraded soon after. You're going to bump him down 5 rounds because of that?

Hah, yeah, I would. I'm not risking a second round pick on a guy that's clearly had big time question marks in terms of character issues. Guys have been dropped farther in the draft for less. It wasn't 'downgraded', he merely plead guilty and got a misdemeanor instead of having felony charges pressed against him.

You think after the stuff the Cowboys go through with all their chemistry issues and the stuff we've gone through with Plax it wouldn't be worth taking this guy with in the first three rounds. If there's one thing our Super Bowl run last year taught us it's better off taking the guy who will be a good teammate and maybe has a bit less talent. Now he may be a good teammate, but his off the field problems surely contradict it to some extent.

I'm not saying he's a horrible person at all, either, but you can't be investing a valuable pick on a guy who whether you'll admitt it or not has had a fairly siginificant charge pressed against him.

Also, Kenny Britt to me is the second best wide out in this draft after Crabtree. Lafell goes through spells where he can't catch anything. Last thing we need is a guy who drop more passes.

Number 10
01-04-2009, 08:05 PM
Hah, yeah, I would. I'm not risking a second round pick on a guy that's clearly had big time question marks in terms of character issues. Guys have been dropped farther in the draft for less. It wasn't 'downgraded', he merely plead guilty and got a misdemeanor instead of having felony charges pressed against him.

You think after the stuff the Cowboys go through with all their chemistry issues and the stuff we've gone through with Plax it wouldn't be worth taking this guy with in the first three rounds. If there's one thing our Super Bowl run last year taught us it's better off taking the guy who will be a good teammate and maybe has a bit less talent. Now he may be a good teammate, but his off the field problems surely contradict it to some extent.

I'm not saying he's a horrible person at all, either, but you can't be investing a valuable pick on a guy who whether you'll admitt it or not has had a fairly siginificant charge pressed against him.

Also, Kenny Britt to me is the second best wide out in this draft after Crabtree. Lafell goes through spells where he can't catch anything. Last thing we need is a guy who drop more passes.

Are you seriously gonna compare Pettigrew's one incident to the headaches on the Cowboys? Tank Johnson had enough guns for an army in his house, Pac-Man was involved in shootings and multiple nightclub incidents, TO is the poster boy for locker room cancer and you're gonna throw Pettigrew's name in that ring? Come on.

giantsfan
01-04-2009, 08:14 PM
Are you seriously gonna compare Pettigrew's one incident to the headaches on the Cowboys? Tank Johnson had enough guns for an army in his house, Pac-Man was involved in shootings and multiple nightclub incidents, TO is the poster boy for locker room cancer and you're gonna throw Pettigrew's name in that ring? Come on.

Pettigrew the prospect isn't much cleaner than any of those guys were as prospects. I still like Pettigrew, but I too wouldn't grab him if there's no better values available on day one.

Forenci
01-04-2009, 09:24 PM
Are you seriously gonna compare Pettigrew's one incident to the headaches on the Cowboys? Tank Johnson had enough guns for an army in his house, Pac-Man was involved in shootings and multiple nightclub incidents, TO is the poster boy for locker room cancer and you're gonna throw Pettigrew's name in that ring? Come on.

When did I ever compare them to any of those players? All I said was he might mess up the chemistry of this team. I merely used Dallas as an example of teams who thought they could control these guys only to realize they couldn't.

Number 10
01-04-2009, 09:39 PM
When did I ever compare them to any of those players? All I said was he might mess up the chemistry of this team. I merely used Dallas as an example of teams who thought they could control these guys only to realize they couldn't.

But one incident is nto worthy of him being mentioned in any example consisting of that nutcases in Dallas. If he was a repeat offender of anything, fine. But one drunk push shouldn't knock his stock down more than a point or two.

bigbluedefense
01-05-2009, 09:28 AM
I agree on Peria Jerry, my scouting of him was exactly the same. He has great feet and a great first step, and he has a great motor and good moves, but he has no strength. I think he'll get moved around in the NFL. His bullrush is nonexistent and when he gets locked up, he has no strength to create any penetration or disengage. To me he's a developmental pass rusher who doesn't grade out in the 1st round.

We all know how i feel about Greg Hardy.

I also agree on BJ Raji. I think he has Haynesworth like potential. I was surprised at how fast his first step was when i scouted him. With Spags most likely gone, it will be interesting to see if Sheridan shares his views on smaller DTs, or if we go back to bulkier guys in the middle. I wouldn't mind if we made an aggressive move for Raji. We really can go a # of ways in this draft. Its a great draft to get quality guys.

Im just not a fan of Cushing. I don't want to label him as a "looks like Tarzan plays like Jane" player bc he's not, but for his physical ability, he should do so much more than he does. He just looks like another guy out there, who shows flashes once in awhile. Just not a fan of the guy.

So far Ive broken down 3 of the OTs in this draft, Andre Smith, Oher, and Monroe. My rankings are:

1. Smith
2. Oher
3. Monroe

with all 3 of them being very close. The thing that scares me about Andre Smith is his height and his arms. The combine will be important for me when it comes to him, so while i rank him #1 now, that could change.

Oher, I love everything about him, he's great in both the run and pass, he's physically everything you want, but my only question is his first step in pass protection. Its a little awkward, and i question if that will effect his ability against speed rushers at the next level.

Monroe has the best feet of the 3. Probably the best pass protector of the 3, but also the worst run blocker. Either way, all 3 of these guys grade out very similarly to me.

Im a huge Kenny Britt fan. I think he has all the potential in the world, and I think he's going to time faster than people think he will.

Number 10
01-05-2009, 11:02 AM
Someone here brought up a good point, I forget who it was. But I can relate it to Britt.

This offense has issues when it comes to the WRs gaining separation. Is it a speed thing? Scheme? I don't want to blow it out of proportion because we have shown you can get by without separation receivers, but Britt is a long strider. Very long...even in short routes. That is going to be an issue at the next level. I think he can be a fine player, but I'm not sure he can ever be a legit #1 receiver. At best, I see Amani Toomer in him while I think he'll be closer to Michael Jenkins of Atlanta. If we go WR in round 1, thats fine. But we need to make sure it is a guy that has the potential to evolve into a big time target for Eli's prime 4-6 years. We would be passing on a pretty good amount of talent at positions I think should be upgraded first and unless we are sure of a WR's potential, we should steer away from one.

Number 10
01-05-2009, 11:10 AM
I am going to watch the USC game again in a couple hours, going to focus soley on Cushing. I have almost 2 pages worth of notes on him and I am going to try and compare those to the Rose Bowl.

bigbluedefense
01-05-2009, 01:14 PM
Britt's size and speed down the field make him appealing. He takes long strides which hurts him underneath, but he can stretch the field.

and he can break the press, and be useful at the goalline.

I don't think he's a round 1 guy anyway, i see him falling in the 2nd.

bigbluedefense
01-05-2009, 06:40 PM
Initial thoughts on Kam Chancellor:

He is great in coverage, covers a lot of ground and does a good job reading the qb. Has fluid hips, can move around well, great range. Can flow to the ball carrier and come up for run support. Fast.

But I don't like his tackling skills. He doesn't like wrapping up. He leads with his shoulder way too much. Thats gonna be a problem in the NFL. Need to see him do a better job tackling.

For our defense, I still prefer Moore over him bc I think Moore is a better run supporter and tackler. And I think he can definitely get his ballhawking skills back with some weight loss.

This is just a preliminary thought on Chancellor. I need to see more of him.

giantsfan
01-05-2009, 09:39 PM
Initial thoughts on Kam Chancellor:

He is great in coverage, covers a lot of ground and does a good job reading the qb. Has fluid hips, can move around well, great range. Can flow to the ball carrier and come up for run support. Fast.

But I don't like his tackling skills. He doesn't like wrapping up. He leads with his shoulder way too much. Thats gonna be a problem in the NFL. Need to see him do a better job tackling.

For our defense, I still prefer Moore over him bc I think Moore is a better run supporter and tackler. And I think he can definitely get his ballhawking skills back with some weight loss.

This is just a preliminary thought on Chancellor. I need to see more of him.

Kam Chancellor is Taylor Mays east, they both don't wrap up very consistently, have great range and good ball skills while doing a solid job coming up against the run.

I like William Moore than either one. Once he's healthy and drops 5-10 pounds he's going to be a beast again.

Number 10
01-05-2009, 10:49 PM
William Moore.

Ew.

And I think Chancellor went back to school.

giantsfan
01-05-2009, 10:54 PM
William Moore.

Ew.

And I think Chancellor went back to school.

Moore's been banged up and overweight this season, but looking at what a monster he was last year I love his potential at SS. This year he was pressing and trying to do more than he was able to this year. He'll be healthy for next season and a pro S&T coach will straighten him out and get him to where he needs to be. I'm curious why you dislike him? As a junior he showed good range and ball skills while doing a great job taking angles to the ball and making an impact against the run.

Yeah Chancellor did go back to school, and really pissed me off in the processs, but he's still as good as Mays, just without the hype and the disgusting workout numbers.

Number 10
01-05-2009, 11:48 PM
Moore's been banged up and overweight this season, but looking at what a monster he was last year I love his potential at SS. This year he was pressing and trying to do more than he was able to this year. He'll be healthy for next season and a pro S&T coach will straighten him out and get him to where he needs to be. I'm curious why you dislike him? As a junior he showed good range and ball skills while doing a great job taking angles to the ball and making an impact against the run.

Yeah Chancellor did go back to school, and really pissed me off in the processs, but he's still as good as Mays, just without the hype and the disgusting workout numbers.

Moore was one of the laziest players I saw all year.

giantsfan
01-06-2009, 01:08 AM
Moore was one of the laziest players I saw all year.

But last year he was one of the most intense guys I've seen, he was flying around hitting everything that moved, breaking up passing and doing a great job closing on runners and stuffing them. I think William Moore is going to be a steal after that poor senior year just like Kenny P was a steal for us last year do to a weaker final season than the previous ones.

Big_Pete
01-06-2009, 05:37 AM
I have heard of Pettigrew being suggested as an decent all round TE prospect but excellent Left Tackle prospect. thinking about it, there is certainly some merit in that idea.

Big_Pete
01-06-2009, 05:38 AM
for a safety option, I like Sean Smith (Utah) a 6-3, 214, 4.55 CB with good instincts and awareness. He should be a very good option in the 2nd round.

Big_Pete
01-06-2009, 05:56 AM
Britt's size and speed down the field make him appealing. He takes long strides which hurts him underneath, but he can stretch the field.

and he can break the press, and be useful at the goalline.

I don't think he's a round 1 guy anyway, i see him falling in the 2nd.

Kenny Britt is a solid pick, but I think Hakeem Nicks is better option for the Giants.

Nicks is in the style of player of Hines Ward; very valuable to the team.

Britt a good player but his style of play is somewhat similar to the young guys we already have on our team. Don't get me wrong, Britt is a good player, but he is a different style of WR and I beleive he will likely take a little longer to impact.

Nicks is that physical, tough, break-tackle type of player that gets the tough yards and fights hard for extra yard. That is the kind of player that fires up a team. He would take a lot of heat off Manning. Nicks has the style of play we need right now and also think he will make an impact alot quicker.

But having thought about it, the Giants roster doesn't have many alarming needs. There is a good chance that both Burress and Toomer will not be back next year. If that happens, I could see Reese picking both Nicks and Britt if they are on the table with our early picks (possibly with trading up. There is a very good chance they will be close to (or at) the top of our draft boards at that point, plus our depth/talent at other positions is not as urgent and can be addressed later in the draft (we will have a few picks; at least 9 at this point, plus likely additional compensation picks for Gibril Wilson (3rd/4th?) and Kawika Mitchell (5th/6th?)) and there is alot of depth in this year's draft class at positions we likely need (DE, LB, CB, S, DT and perhaps OT).

I could see the Giants having a WR corps of Domenik Hixon, Steve Smith, Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Britt, Mario Manningham with Sinorice Moss and David Tyree fighting for the last roster spot. That would be an exceptional young WR group.

bigbluedefense
01-06-2009, 08:21 AM
Here's my logic with Moore.

When watching him, I love his ability to flow to the ball and make open field tackles. He's a great blitzer, and great at run support.

Now his biggest questions this season were

1. his weight
2. his injuries
3. his motor

I think all 3 of those factors are easily correctable. His motor issues have to do with his injuries, he had no motor issues last year.

That is why I feel, if this guy can shed 10 lbs or so before the combine and show everyone he is committed, I think he can be a 2nd round steal.

We all heard the knocks on Phillips last year. Moore is going through something similar this year. He can be another Kenny Phillips under the right circumstances.

bigbluedefense
01-06-2009, 10:20 AM
whats everyone's thoughts on Lauranitis?

i don't know. i didn't really like him all that much. he's a pile jumper. maybe in a cover 2 he'll be good, but he's not a good fit in our system.

The LB from BC, Herzilitz (sp), i love that guy, but he has no place in our system as well. He's perfect for a Parcells 3-4, or maybe even inside in a traditional 3-4, but he has no fit in our scheme.

Number 10
01-06-2009, 10:27 AM
whats everyone's thoughts on Lauranitis?

i don't know. i didn't really like him all that much. he's a pile jumper. maybe in a cover 2 he'll be good, but he's not a good fit in our system.

The LB from BC, Herzilitz (sp), i love that guy, but he has no place in our system as well. He's perfect for a Parcells 3-4, or maybe even inside in a traditional 3-4, but he has no fit in our scheme.

Lauranitis has a few tools that can be used in our system. Great cover guy, always moving in the right direction, outstanding blitzer. But he can't get off blocks to save his life. The end of the 2nd round is where I would start considering him.

Herzilich is a junior who has said he is going back to school.

bigbluedefense
01-06-2009, 10:29 AM
Lauranitis has a few tools that can be used in our system. Great cover guy, always moving in the right direction, outstanding blitzer. But he can't get off blocks to save his life. The end of the 2nd round is where I would start considering him.

Herzilich is a junior who has said he is going back to school.

i think the only place he can work is weakside on our defense, but as you stated, my biggest turnoff is his inability to shed blocks. all of our LBs need to be strong downhill guys, and he's not that.

he can blitz as long as he's untouched, but thats not good enough. he screams Cover 2 to me.

bigbluedefense
01-06-2009, 10:32 AM
im also in favor of us drafting a kicker. we need a kicker. badly.

Number 10
01-06-2009, 11:06 AM
im also in favor of us drafting a kicker. we need a kicker. badly.

I understand your position. But Coughlin doesn't like using rookie kickers from what I've heard unless they really have that 'wow' factor. With Tynes locked up for another 3-4 years (cap friendly if he is cut) and Carney pretty much hitting everything, I don't think drafting a kicker is anywhere in our near future.

bigbluedefense
01-06-2009, 11:08 AM
I understand your position. But Coughlin doesn't like using rookie kickers from what I've heard unless they really have that 'wow' factor. With Tynes locked up for another 3-4 years (cap friendly if he is cut) and Carney pretty much hitting everything, I don't think drafting a kicker is anywhere in our near future.

well, i love Carney as a FG kicker, but he's also a big reason why our kickoff coverage is statistically the worst in the league. he has no leg on him.

and tynes...yuck. the guy can't even hit an extra point without making it exciting.

i just think for the long term, it should be looked into. although if what you said is true, i doubt it happens. which is something im against.

Damix
01-06-2009, 11:12 AM
I wonder what sort of compensation picks we get, lost 3 players to pretty decent contracts and only brought in Clark as a notable player.

giantsfan
01-06-2009, 11:26 AM
whats everyone's thoughts on Lauranitis?

i don't know. i didn't really like him all that much. he's a pile jumper. maybe in a cover 2 he'll be good, but he's not a good fit in our system.

The LB from BC, Herzilitz (sp), i love that guy, but he has no place in our system as well. He's perfect for a Parcells 3-4, or maybe even inside in a traditional 3-4, but he has no fit in our scheme.

Lil Animal will be good in a scheme where his first step isn't forwards, he's just not a downhill player and I doubt he could ever develop into a very good one. I would just take him off our board entirely.

As for Herzlich, he's a beast. If he comes out only Curry and Spikes are better. He's a great blitzer and is very good in coverage. If BC is actually stupid enough to fire their HC for interviewing for the Jets job I could definitely see Herzlich coming out. I know he looks like a better fit for a 3-4 D, but I think he could be a truly studly SAM in our scheme, because he's really great attacking the LOS and getting into the backfield and has been used to cover receivers. He'd instantly be our best cover backer and would be our best backer since Jessie pretty soon there after.

bigbluedefense
01-06-2009, 11:37 AM
Lil Animal will be good in a scheme where his first step isn't forwards, he's just not a downhill player and I doubt he could ever develop into a very good one. I would just take him off our board entirely.

As for Herzlich, he's a beast. If he comes out only Curry and Spikes are better. He's a great blitzer and is very good in coverage. If BC is actually stupid enough to fire their HC for interviewing for the Jets job I could definitely see Herzlich coming out. I know he looks like a better fit for a 3-4 D, but I think he could be a truly studly SAM in our scheme, because he's really great attacking the LOS and getting into the backfield and has been used to cover receivers. He'd instantly be our best cover backer and would be our best backer since Jessie pretty soon there after.

i haven't seen him enough, but don't you think he's a little big? and don't you think he lacks some fluidity?

i just think he's a perfect 3-4 guy from what ive seen. i do need to see more of the guy though.

Number 10
01-06-2009, 11:53 AM
I wonder what sort of compensation picks we get, lost 3 players to pretty decent contracts and only brought in Clark as a notable player.

I predicted our comp picks right the past 2 years. I won't really research it until March though.

I think we get a 5th and 6th. We have so many picks this year, over 10. I have to think either Reese trades up for a top player on their board or he gets a future 1st.

Geo
01-06-2009, 11:56 AM
Gibril Wilson will definitely net the Giants a fourth round comp pick.

Number 10
01-06-2009, 12:03 PM
Gibril Wilson will definitely net the Giants a fourth round comp pick.

It's possible. He had a crap load of tackles this year and production is a factor in the comp picks. Wasn't much of a factor when it came to playing the pass though. Hopefully we'll get a 4th.

bigbluedefense
01-06-2009, 12:03 PM
Gibril Wilson will definitely net the Giants a fourth round comp pick.

that would be so sweet.

him and Kawika hopefully get us some sweet comp picks.

giantsfan
01-06-2009, 12:03 PM
i haven't seen him enough, but don't you think he's a little big? and don't you think he lacks some fluidity?

i just think he's a perfect 3-4 guy from what ive seen. i do need to see more of the guy though.

Herzlich will be a beast if he lands in a 3-4, but he's extremely fluid and agile, his size is not a problem for our scheme, he's a big guy true, but he moves very effortlessly and plays better than Cushing should be playing.

His cover skills just blow me away when you consider his size and pass rushing ability. He looks so smooth out there and if I wasn't on Spikes nuts like I am Herzlich would be pushing Curry for the top LB spot on my board.

bigbluedefense
01-06-2009, 12:05 PM
Herzlich will be a beast if he lands in a 3-4, but he's extremely fluid and agile, his size is not a problem for our scheme, he's a big guy true, but he moves very effortlessly and plays better than Cushing should be playing.

His cover skills just blow me away when you consider his size and pass rushing ability. He looks so smooth out there and if I wasn't on Spikes nuts like I am Herzlich would be pushing Curry for the top LB spot on my board.

i guess its a moot point now, since he's staying in college.

i still think Clint Sintim is our best fit at SAM. I love Sintim.

giantsfan
01-06-2009, 12:12 PM
i guess its a moot point now, since he's staying in college.

i still think Clint Sintim is our best fit at SAM. I love Sintim.

Herzlich could still come out. If BC's AD fires Jags for interviewing with the Jets I could see a lot of guys decide to come out from that team.

I'm a big sintim fan as well, but he's not on par with Spikes and Herzlich. If they're both not available I'd be very happy with Sintim, but if we have a shot at either one I'd easily pass on Sintim.

Number 10
01-06-2009, 12:14 PM
Sintim is interesting. I've noticed over the past year that the Giants use their SAM in space more often than I initially thought. Sintim's experience inspace is very limited, just like Cushing. He is a terror in the box but he is a risk for our scheme.

Geo
01-06-2009, 12:20 PM
It's possible. He had a crap load of tackles this year and production is a factor in the comp picks. Wasn't much of a factor when it came to playing the pass though. Hopefully we'll get a 4th.
The biggest factor in the equation, by far, is the free agent contract the player signs with the other team. Specifically, the average salary of that contract - even if it's essentially a one-year deal with fluff years afterwards (ex. Donte Stallworth's last two contracts).

Wilson has a 6.5M average, he's definitely going to get you guys a 4th round comp pick. That he played in 16 games and started 15, helps solidify the pick/placement.

Kawika Mitchell has a 3.5 average, that's a 6th if not maybe 5th round comp pick depending on the overall free agent class. I crunched some numbers a few months ago, but didn't go that far into it. Just the 3rd, 4th, and a few borderline 5th round guys.

Who's the third Giants player who left in free agency?

Number 10
01-06-2009, 12:22 PM
The biggest factor in the equation, by far, is the free agent contract the player signs with the other team. Specifically, the average salary of that contract - even if it's essentially a one-year deal with fluff years afterwards (ex. Donte Stallworth's last two contracts).

Wilson has a 6.5M average, he's definitely going to get you guys a 4th round comp pick.

Kawika Mitchell has a 3.5 average, that's a 6th if not maybe 5th round comp pick depending on the overall free agent class. I crunched some numbers a few months ago, but didn't go that far into it. Just the 3rd, 4th, and a few borderline 5th round guys.

Who's the third Giants player who left in free agency?

I believe those were the only 2 noteworthy departures. Shockey was traded and we got our comp for him!!

2nd and 5th, woww

Geo
01-06-2009, 12:25 PM
Even though I don't think Kevin Boss is better than a healthy Jeremy Shockey, that was a great trade made by the Giants. They held firm all offseason and got the Saints to give a 2nd and a 5th. Definitely worth it, with that return.

(Even a 3rd and a 5th would have been worth it.)

Number 10
01-06-2009, 12:33 PM
Even though I don't think Kevin Boss is better than a healthy Jeremy Shockey, that was a great trade made by the Giants. They held firm all offseason and got the Saints to give a 2nd and a 5th. Definitely worth it, with that return.

(Even a 3rd and a 5th would have been worth it.)

When you are talking economics and scheme, Boss is on the same level as Shockey. No doubt Shockey is a more talented player, especially as a blocker, but Boss has been money for us this year. Him and Steve Smith on 3rd downs are awesome. Shockey was a terrible option route runner. Never on the same page as Manning.

We don't use the TE to work the seams as much as we used to.

bigbluedefense
01-06-2009, 12:40 PM
I love Boss. So many times I saw this year, Boss made a catch and i said to myself "Shockey doesn't catch that".

I think he'll exceed Shockey as a pass catcher soon enough (in our scheme). As a run blocker, he's getting there.

Boss won't wow you with speed, he'll have to be of the Witten mold, great route running and size and great hands. He looks at film of Witten, and tries to emulate his game, which is good news.

As for Sintim, the few times ive seen him in space, he's done a solid job. His coverage responsibilities are minimal, just a soft zone, but he played it well.

Giantsfan1080
01-06-2009, 01:28 PM
I'm pretty sure Torbor started for the Dolphins so he might net us a pick as well. Also, with Spags probably leaving our system might be tweaked a little. The Lb's we don't think fit our system now might in a couple of months. Say it's Sheridan that gets the job he might like more athletic Lb's than we are used to the last couple of years. Is Sergi Kindle coming out? He's another guy I'd really look at early in the draft.

bigbluedefense
01-06-2009, 04:38 PM
thats a good point on Sheridan.

anyone know anything about this guy? all i heard was that Spags would ask Sheridan every so often which blitz play he should call.

i don't know anything about Sheridan's personal philosophy or what he plans on changing or keeping etc.

anyone know?

giantsfan
01-06-2009, 04:55 PM
I'm pretty sure Torbor started for the Dolphins so he might net us a pick as well. Also, with Spags probably leaving our system might be tweaked a little. The Lb's we don't think fit our system now might in a couple of months. Say it's Sheridan that gets the job he might like more athletic Lb's than we are used to the last couple of years. Is Sergi Kindle coming out? He's another guy I'd really look at early in the draft.

Sergio Kinle is intriguing just because he's a freak who's been productive in a system that just lets him out beast people, but he's so raw, he's slow to react even though he's really explosive, is mediocre shedding blockers, doesn't know his ass from his hands in coverage and overpursues a lot. That said if he came out and fell to NO's pick with us not addressing DE or LB in the first I'd be very happy to have him.

Giantsfan1080
01-06-2009, 04:56 PM
thats a good point on Sheridan.

anyone know anything about this guy? all i heard was that Spags would ask Sheridan every so often which blitz play he should call.

i don't know anything about Sheridan's personal philosophy or what he plans on changing or keeping etc.

anyone know?

I don't think anyone really knows much except for the coaching staff and players.

bigbluedefense
01-06-2009, 04:59 PM
I don't think anyone really knows much except for the coaching staff and players.

some beat writers or guys with insider info gotta know something. dammit, the curiosity is killin me lol.

on an unrelated note, I believe Whimper is a FA this year correct? whats everyone's thoughts on the Whimp? will he ever be a great LT, or just solid depth for the rest of his career?

Forenci
01-06-2009, 05:07 PM
some beat writers or guys with insider info gotta know something. dammit, the curiosity is killin me lol.

on an unrelated note, I believe Whimper is a FA this year correct? whats everyone's thoughts on the Whimp? will he ever be a great LT, or just solid depth for the rest of his career?

I doubt he'll ever be a legit left tackle but he's a guy I'd love to keep around. Gives us wonderful depth at both tackle positions and the times he's had to fillin I think he's done a great job.

If we can re-sign him on the cheap side, which why wouldn't we be able to when he's A) coming off an injury and B) has been a career back up, then yes we should try and keep him around.

bigbluedefense
01-06-2009, 06:01 PM
I think for the right price, id love to keep him as a depth LT. the guy is not necessarily starting material, but i think he's one of the better backup Tackles out there. having depth is priceless, and he really allows us quality depth, since he can play swing tackle.

and with Diehl's versatility outside and inside, and Seaburt we really have quality depth if we resign Whimper.

Now of course, i still wouldn't mind a LT at all, but even if we draft an LT, i still think having Whimper on the bench wouldn't be a bad idea. of course however, for the right price only.

Im curious to see if Koets turns into anything. For the time being, we shouldn't bank on it and try to resign Whimper.

Giantsfan1080
01-08-2009, 03:53 PM
After reading Scott's report of Darry Beckwith (LSU) today it seems like he'd be a good fit for the Giants. He seems to be a Reese type of guy.

Number 10
01-08-2009, 04:41 PM
After reading Scott's report of Darry Beckwith (LSU) today it seems like he'd be a good fit for the Giants. He seems to be a Reese type of guy.

I don't like him. Reminds me of Ali Highsmith last year, another LSU LB that a lot of Giants fans for some reason loved.

Giantsfan1080
01-08-2009, 05:49 PM
I don't like him. Reminds me of Ali Highsmith last year, another LSU LB that a lot of Giants fans for some reason loved.

Yeah I haven't really seen him play. I was soley basing it off Scott's report that he seems to be a Reese guy besides the injury aspect.

Big_Pete
01-11-2009, 10:01 AM
I doubt he'll ever be a legit left tackle but he's a guy I'd love to keep around. Gives us wonderful depth at both tackle positions and the times he's had to fillin I think he's done a great job.

If we can re-sign him on the cheap side, which why wouldn't we be able to when he's A) coming off an injury and B) has been a career back up, then yes we should try and keep him around.

I am pretty sure Whimper signed a 4 year deal (same as Cofield), which means he is an unrestricted free agent after the 2009 season

Big_Pete
01-11-2009, 10:10 AM
Beckwith is ok, but the Giants will almost certainly have a shot at a better talent if they choose.

There are alot of good LBs this year, there is a good chance that someone like
Spikes, Maybin, Laurenitis or Sintim could be an option

after them there a stack of options including Beckwith, Freeman, McGrath, Cushing, Matthews, Ellerbe, Brinkley...

It is a good year to be after a LB; I could see the Giants even grabbing a couple early.

With all the depth/talent at more premium positions like QB, OT, CB, DE, WR and RB, I could see even Curry and Melualuga going alot lower than they should with teams choosing to get LB help in later rounds.

Number 10
01-11-2009, 05:43 PM
I am currently working on an extensive 2 round mock. I am keeping trades out of it but I am trying to find the hit spots in which Reese may look to trade up into. I think we may stay put at 29 and trade up from the New Orleans pick. If Ward or Jacobs leaves in FA, I have a name on my radar that many won't agree with but the fit is perfect because of our need for a dynamic big play threat int he backfield.

LeSean McCoy - Pittsburgh

scottyboy
01-11-2009, 05:46 PM
I am currently working on an extensive 2 round mock. I am keeping trades out of it but I am trying to find the hit spots in which Reese may look to trade up into. I think we may stay put at 29 and trade up from the New Orleans pick. If Ward or Jacobs leaves in FA, I have a name on my radar that many won't agree with but the fit is perfect because of our need for a dynamic big play threat int he backfield.

LeSean McCoy - Pittsburgh

We'll see if Shady enters. He's talented, and obviously I don't like him, but he'd be an interesting pick no doubt.

A guy I'd love for us if we draft a RB fairly early is James Davis. Ringer too. They're not the big play guys we may need, but really neither is Ward. Ringer has very good hands and could be a nice fit.

Number 10
01-11-2009, 05:48 PM
We'll see if Shady enters. He's talented, and obviously I don't like him, but he'd be an interesting pick no doubt.

A guy I'd love for us if we draft a RB fairly early is James Davis. Ringer too. They're not the big play guys we may need, but really neither is Ward. Ringer has very good hands and could be a nice fit.

I'm pretty sure McCoy already declared.

We like to use a lot of East-West running and Ward simply isn't that kind of back. Neither is Bradshaw.

scottyboy
01-11-2009, 05:50 PM
I'm pretty sure McCoy already declared.

We like to use a lot of East-West running and Ward simply isn't that kind of back. Neither is Bradshaw.

McCoy's been off and on. I'm not sure anyone knows for sure what he's doing.

And Bradshaw has the potential to be an E-W runner, but Ward isn't. I think his time here is up. I don't get why the hell we run so many stretch plays to jacobs, it's mind boggling...

Number 10
01-11-2009, 05:55 PM
McCoy's been off and on. I'm not sure anyone knows for sure what he's doing.

And Bradshaw has the potential to be an E-W runner, but Ward isn't. I think his time here is up. I don't get why the hell we run so many stretch plays to jacobs, it's mind boggling...

Especially against a pursuing defense like Philly's.

scottyboy
01-11-2009, 05:57 PM
Especially against a pursuing defense like Philly's.

and semi-undersized...

it didn't make sense. our playcalling was horrendous. flat out garbage. that's more of a problem now than our personel, especially at RB...

bigbluedefense
01-12-2009, 01:01 PM
i was gonna address what i felt were our needs. but i think im gonna cry and eat chocolate for a little longer before i rant in here

:(

Forenci
01-12-2009, 04:57 PM
i was gonna address what i felt were our needs. but i think im gonna cry and eat chocolate for a little longer before i rant in here

:(

haha. Poor BBD. I feel bad for you most of all having been to the game and knowing that you're certainly one of the most knowledgeable Giants fans on the boards.

as I told Scottyboy the other day I'm just happy I'm a very laid back and mellow person or I'm certain I'd have put my foot through a wall or TV.

Fortunately, and it pains me to think about this, but at least we're Giants fans who follow the draft closely or the pain worse with out the draft to look forward to.

ShutDwn
01-12-2009, 06:20 PM
Hey guys, tough loss, too bad there is no rematch...

Anyway, I am here because I remember someone telling us Panther fans that we should say goodbye to our secondary when we hired Tim Lewis. All I can say is you are right, other than Gamble (who I believe was on his way to being very good anyway) everyone has gotten a lot worse. Richard Marshall, our promising young corner has regressed so much, Ken Lucas more than just age.

Fox also has to do with it, trying to stop them from being the aggressive corners they all are.

Giantsfan1080
01-12-2009, 09:18 PM
Hey guys, tough loss, too bad there is no rematch...

Anyway, I am here because I remember someone telling us Panther fans that we should say goodbye to our secondary when we hired Tim Lewis. All I can say is you are right, other than Gamble (who I believe was on his way to being very good anyway) everyone has gotten a lot worse. Richard Marshall, our promising young corner has regressed so much, Ken Lucas more than just age.

Fox also has to do with it, trying to stop them from being the aggressive corners they all are.

Tim Lewis is terrible. I'm sorry your team signed him.

Number 10
01-14-2009, 03:22 PM
LaFell declared. I'm pumped.

I'd love to see him with our 2nd pick.

Damix
01-14-2009, 04:38 PM
I'd like to grab Britt or DHB round 1, loadholt with NO's pick and then either a LB or RB (Green, Davis,Spiller) with the 2nd round pick.

I really think we should take a look at a few of the FA LB's. Dansby likely is getting a monster deal but Boley (down year) or Crowder (knee problems) might not get as much.

G-Men88
01-14-2009, 05:17 PM
The Giants will not be taking a WR in the first 2 rounds after taking a WR high in the last 3 drafts, we will see how the Plaxico situation plays out and continue to explore the options in FA and via trades. Sorry Scotty, but Kenny Britt is not going to be a Giant.

NotoriousT
01-14-2009, 05:38 PM
I still don't see the logic in spending a high pick on an offensive linemen. That's our strongest unit, there's plenty of other needs we need to address before we try upgrading something that doesn't need upgrading or adding depth before we address actual areas of need (LB, S, Pass rusher, K).

If Plax is spending time in the slammer, then we absolutely have to draft a WR early. It's either that or trade for someone who is capable of being a #1 WR. As we saw these past few weeks, our WRs suck without Plax there to draw attention. If we go into the season with this line-up of WRs (which could very well be without Toomer) we're making a huge mistake and will pay for it dearly.

Giantsfan1080
01-14-2009, 09:29 PM
I'd like to grab Britt or DHB round 1, loadholt with NO's pick and then either a LB or RB (Green, Davis,Spiller) with the 2nd round pick.

I really think we should take a look at a few of the FA LB's. Dansby likely is getting a monster deal but Boley (down year) or Crowder (knee problems) might not get as much.


Didn't know Boley was a FA. He's a very intriguing player to me.

Fogartynyy2789
01-14-2009, 09:32 PM
Channing Crowder- 25 years old and improving. SIGN HIM!

scottyboy
01-14-2009, 10:09 PM
The Giants will not be taking a WR in the first 2 rounds after taking a WR high in the last 3 drafts, we will see how the Plaxico situation plays out and continue to explore the options in FA and via trades. Sorry Scotty, but Kenny Britt is not going to be a Giant.

so because we've taken a WR 3 years ago in the 2nd, and a project guy in the LATE 3rd last year means we won't take a WR high this year, despite it being a major need?


epic not knowing your own team fail.

Giantsfan1080
01-14-2009, 10:23 PM
so because we've taken a WR 3 years ago in the 2nd, and a project guy in the LATE 3rd last year means we won't take a WR high this year, despite it being a major need?


epic not knowing your own team fail.

Haha your big on the epic fail lately. I see a WR to us in the 1st 3 picks that we have. As of now my dream first 2 picks are Sintim and Britt. I do know there is no way that happens.

scottyboy
01-14-2009, 10:24 PM
Haha your big on the epic fail lately. I see a WR to us in the 1st 3 picks that we have. As of now my dream first 2 picks are Sintim and Britt. I do know there is no way that happens.

it's my new line, I've been saying it in school and getting the weirdest looks haha.

Sintim and Britt would be unbelievable. Who knows, maybe Reese trades up, we've got a good amount of picks, so...

DON'T STOP, BELIEVING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Number 10
01-15-2009, 10:29 AM
I still don't see the logic in spending a high pick on an offensive linemen. That's our strongest unit, there's plenty of other needs we need to address before we try upgrading something that doesn't need upgrading or adding depth before we address actual areas of need (LB, S, Pass rusher, K).

If Plax is spending time in the slammer, then we absolutely have to draft a WR early. It's either that or trade for someone who is capable of being a #1 WR. As we saw these past few weeks, our WRs suck without Plax there to draw attention. If we go into the season with this line-up of WRs (which could very well be without Toomer) we're making a huge mistake and will pay for it dearly.

The most important part of this football team is our strength in the trenches. We need to make sure there won't ever be an issue in there. David Diehl is a marginal left tackle and Kareem McKenzie is getting more banged up each year. If the value is there with anyone of our picks, an OT should be taken. We then have the issue solved before it arises, thus keeping our trenches strong no matter what.

G-Men88
01-15-2009, 05:21 PM
When a WR is traded for or signed via free agency the whole draft a WR thing will become a moot point so I really shouldn't even bother trying to explain this. We need a veteran, someone that can step in right away and replace Plaxico's production if he is unable to return. That is why a high pick will not be spent on a WR.

Number 10
01-15-2009, 05:30 PM
When a WR is traded for or signed via free agency the whole draft a WR thing will become a moot point so I really shouldn't even bother trying to explain this. We need a veteran, someone that can step in right away and replace Plaxico's production if he is unable to return. That is why a high pick will not be spent on a WR.

Ok.

Who will that be? Is he going to appear out of thin air?

scottyboy
01-15-2009, 05:56 PM
When a WR is traded for or signed via free agency the whole draft a WR thing will become a moot point so I really shouldn't even bother trying to explain this. We need a veteran, someone that can step in right away and replace Plaxico's production if he is unable to return. That is why a high pick will not be spent on a WR.

this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Tell me, oh great future teller, who will we sign or trade for? If you know that we will no doubt make a move other than the draft.

And last I checked, rookie WR's can come in and produce right away. A rookie will have the same amount, if not more time working with Eli than a vet, so your point is moot. Don't give me the vet crap, because all systems and QB's are different. Your logic and random shots in the dark and terrible.

Geo
01-15-2009, 05:59 PM
I do agree that the Giants are in a bit of a pickle, if they are looking for a #1 receiver because a guy out of college is very unlikely to be that immediately. We've seen more exceptions in recent years, thanks to the emphasis on the passing game in the league nowadays, but still. It's not something you can necessarily count on.

And the Giants aren't that good off in the short-term, like say the Colts who I think will be looking receiver early as well (it's part of their dynamic). Assuming they let aging Amani Toomer walk, it falls on Steve Smith and Kevin Boss, along with what they can get out of their youth and inexperienced players like Dixon, an '09 rookie draft pick, Manningham, Moss, and so on. Unless Plaxico Burress comes back healthy and ready to play, of course.

That said, Eli is the franchise and is barely in his prime if he's even reached yet. As long as the Giants lock him up (which I fully believe they will), you might as well shoot for greater success in the long-term than just '09 (and maybe '10).

Could they look for someone FA-wise? TJ Houshmandzadeh is probably the biggest/best name to consider, and would suffice. Maybe trading for Chad Johnson, the Giants even have two 2nd round picks this year, although you'd have to be sure he's not another distraction of a starting WR.

Any cheaper veteran free agents to consider? That does seem more likely with the Giants GM. I'm trying to think ... Bryant Johnson seems like a great candidate, although he hardly set the world on fire in San Fran. Brandon Lloyd, another.

Maybe take a chance on one year of Joey Galloway if the Bucs release him? Manningham could use the veteran presence.

bigbluedefense
01-15-2009, 05:59 PM
If Burress does not return, I think WR easily becomes our biggest need. Ask anyone who was at the game, our WR core is a joke without Burress.

I realized at that exact moment, we lost the SB when we lost Burress.


As much as I think LB is a huge glaring need, we couldve won the SB with what we had. You can't say the same about our WR core without Burress. To me, Britt is our best option, and I wouldn't even mind "reaching" for him with our 1st.

I think he will surprise a lot of ppl in the NFL.


Other notes:

-My boy Greg Hardy is going back to school. I was hoping he'd come out, I love the guy.

-So is Spikes, so there goes that. I know a lot of you love the guy, but I wasn't as sold. He takes poor angles, is overrated as a blitzer, and his coverage skills are good but nothing to go nuts over. He's a solid player, and i wouldn't mind him at all, but he's not the demigod he was being sold as on this forum. He's not. I do cede that he is a tough SOB though. That part about him i was wrong about.

scottyboy
01-15-2009, 06:21 PM
I agree, without Plax, WR is easily our biggest need. We can suffice going another year with average at best OLBs, especially if spags stays. Right now, if we come out of the offseason with a #1 WR option and a playmaking LB, we're pretty damn good.

The draft(later, 3-7 mainly) can fill smaller needs like CB and safety depth, OL youth and RB.

scottyboy
01-15-2009, 06:22 PM
another thing: this draft is LOADED with WR's in the late 1st-early 2nd round, in which we've got 2 picks. Look for us(if we keep both picks) to take a WR with one of them

Number 10
01-15-2009, 06:30 PM
No matter what we do in FA, I think it is a fair bet we use one of tose first three picks on a WR.

scottyboy
01-15-2009, 06:36 PM
No matter what we do in FA, I think it is a fair bet we use one of tose first three picks on a WR.

bingo. Especially with our 1st or NO's 2nd. The talent pool there will be excellent in that area for WR's

Number 10
01-15-2009, 06:40 PM
My preliminary rankings are this:

1 - Michael Crabtree - Texas Tech
2 - Jeremy Maclin - Missouri
3 - Brandon LaFell - LSU
4 - Kenny Britt - Rutgers
5 - Hakeem Nicks - UNC
6 - Percy Harvin - Florida
7 - Darius Heyward-Bey - Maryland

BaLLiN
01-15-2009, 10:13 PM
all i ask is that we dont try to get ocho cinco..

I think Jerry is gunna get fancy with this. We have a rare chance of having a great number of picks in a very good overall draft.

we probably have a 1st from the saints next year, not Reese's style but i think he's gunna use it somehow.

remember the conditional pick thing? well lookie here:
Lost:
Gibril- HUGE CONTRACT
Kawika- pretty decent contract
Torbor- pretty decent contract

Gained:
Danny Clark:small contract
Sammy Knight:medium contract

I figure Gibril nets us a 3rd or 4th, probably a 3rd. Kawika and Torbor probably both 5ths, Clark and Knight negate one of those 5th round picks.

so we're left with.

1.
(future 1st most likely)
2.
3a.
3b.
4.
5a.
5b.
5c.
6.
7.

thats 10 picks, and 11 if you count the pick we'd get from saints which looks like its going to be a second for the jets this year and a 1st for us next.

*trade future first, fourth, fifth(or somewhere to move up) for first this year*
1a. Clint Sintim OLB Virginia
1b. Jason Smith OT Baylor
2. Kenny Britt WR Rutgers
3a. Terrence Taylor DT Michigan
3b. Andre Brown RB NCST/ Devin Moore RB Wyoming
5a. Wopamo Osaisai CB Stanford
5b. A.Q. Shipley C Penn State
6. Louie Sakoda K/P Utah
7. Eric Moncur DE Miami U

BaLLiN
01-15-2009, 10:24 PM
Ill explain

*trade future first, fourth, fifth(or somewhere to move up) for first this year*
1a. Clint Sintim OLB Virginia
Kiwi should stay at end, good 3 way rotation then Tollefson and someone else clean up. Sintim takes Kiwi's place, Kehl and Blackburn take Clark's
1b. Jason Smith OT Baylor
Has bulk to play RT, but could possibly handle LT, we'll see, either way we need one, and im guessing he takes RT and Whimper takes LT eventually...
2. Kenny Britt WR Rutgers
I like him, dont see huge threat, just yet. but playing for his hometown team will help him along, more confidence, and he can add some weight
3a. Terrence Taylor DT Michigan
dropped, but he's still the man in the middle we need
3b. Andre Brown RB NCST/ Devin Moore RB Wyoming
i hope both Jacobs and Ward stay, but ones gunna leave i feel it. So Andre Brown is that type of player, but then again i love bradshaw so a return specialist and jizzifying Devin Moore might be it.
5a. Wopamo Osaisai CB Stanford
Please, please god
5b. A.Q. Shipley C Penn State
O'hara is old, need backup behind Seubert
6. Louie Sakoda K/P Utah
He's basically what we have right now, he'll get stronger when he can devote his life to football, but if he could do both and save us a roster spot id be a big advantage
7. Eric Moncur DE Miami U
Didnt picture him being all the way down here at the beginnning of the season, nobody has swagga like us... or him

the trade is basically 1,4,5 but if we dont use the 5 we'll probably use it to jump ahead of someone.

scottyboy
01-15-2009, 10:27 PM
Jason Smith won't fall that far, and honestly, neither will Britt most likely

giantsfan
01-15-2009, 10:33 PM
Ill explain

*trade future first, fourth, fifth(or somewhere to move up) for first this year*
1a. Clint Sintim OLB Virginia
Kiwi should stay at end, good 3 way rotation then Tollefson and someone else clean up. Sintim takes Kiwi's place, Kehl and Blackburn take Clark's
1b. Jason Smith OT Baylor
Has bulk to play RT, but could possibly handle LT, we'll see, either way we need one, and im guessing he takes RT and Whimper takes LT eventually...
2. Kenny Britt WR Rutgers
I like him, dont see huge threat, just yet. but playing for his hometown team will help him along, more confidence, and he can add some weight
3a. Terrence Taylor DT Michigan
dropped, but he's still the man in the middle we need
3b. Andre Brown RB NCST/ Devin Moore RB Wyoming
i hope both Jacobs and Ward stay, but ones gunna leave i feel it. So Andre Brown is that type of player, but then again i love bradshaw so a return specialist and jizzifying Devin Moore might be it.
5a. Wopamo Osaisai CB Stanford
Please, please god
5b. A.Q. Shipley C Penn State
O'hara is old, need backup behind Seubert
6. Louie Sakoda K/P Utah
He's basically what we have right now, he'll get stronger when he can devote his life to football, but if he could do both and save us a roster spot id be a big advantage
7. Eric Moncur DE Miami U
Didnt picture him being all the way down here at the beginnning of the season, nobody has swagga like us... or him

the trade is basically 1,4,5 but if we dont use the 5 we'll probably use it to jump ahead of someone.

If the saints wait until a certain date to re-sign vilma they don't owe the jets a second so we're getting a second rounder this year. Smith should be a top 10 pick and is definitely a LT. He's a slim insanely quick footed former TE who's still bulking up and needs to drive better in the running game. I'd love him but he'd beat out Diehl for the LT spot before playing RT. And we'd have to trade up really high to get him.

BaLLiN
01-15-2009, 10:42 PM
Well I'm probably wrong about smith. I used scotts rankings there. And are you sure about the vilma thing? And with britt I don't see him doing great at the combine. He was good but good in a possesion and sneaky type of way.

scottyboy
01-15-2009, 10:52 PM
Well I'm probably wrong about smith. I used scotts rankings there. And are you sure about the vilma thing? And with britt I don't see him doing great at the combine. He was good but good in a possesion and sneaky type of way.

yes, the Saints know the loophole, we're getting their 2nd this year.

and have you watched Britt? He's going to light it up at the combine. His size, speed and leaping ability will have scouts drooling. I'm unsure what his shuttle/3 cone etc will be, but his 40, size and leap will give scouts bonerz

BaLLiN
01-16-2009, 09:39 AM
yes, the Saints know the loophole, we're getting their 2nd this year.

and have you watched Britt? He's going to light it up at the combine. His size, speed and leaping ability will have scouts drooling. I'm unsure what his shuttle/3 cone etc will be, but his 40, size and leap will give scouts bonerz

well not much this year, but last year and the year before, he was fast but i never thought him to be amazingly fast, i always thought of him as the possession reciever and underwood as the more quick and fast guy

bigbluedefense
01-16-2009, 06:31 PM
My realistic big board at the moment of BPA (i left out obvious guys who won't be there)

1. Michael Oher
2. BJ Raji
3. Kenny Britt
4. Alex Mack

If Oher or Raji are still on the board when the Gmen choose, id take them over Britt. Other than that, barring some crazy drop by some player, I don't want us to pass on Britt for anyone who realistically will be available around that draft position.

Id consider Alex Mack, but he's not worth passing Britt over.

bigbluedefense
01-16-2009, 06:59 PM
Another thing I wanted to discuss.

While Loadholt has gotten a lot of heat lately, and has rightfully slipped on draft boards, he looked pretty good against Florida.

And his feet didn't look all that bad to me. Just a name to keep in mind with 1 of our 2 2nd round picks.

I can see him playing RT, or who knows, maybe even LT with some development. But I like him as a RT prospect.

And we need 2 Tackles, so it doesn't hurt trying.

Big_Pete
01-17-2009, 09:34 AM
I think the front office will try and resolve the WR situation well before the draft (and Plaxico's court date) if at all possible. Reese isn't going to rely on whether Burress is back or not and a rookie WR however talented is unlikely to impact right away.

The way I see it there are only a couple of genuine options.

Pick up a free agent such as TJ Houshmandzadeh

or trade for a good WR from another team for example such as Torry Holt

or trade for a top WR who could be available such as Anquan Boldin or Braylon Edwards (who is off contract after 2009).

Of all the options perhaps trading for Edwards is the most likely, although it certainly won't be cheap. Perhaps we could package our first round pick with Matthias Kiwanuka, a mid round pick or conditional 2010 pick based on Edwards performance; the Browns need passrushers badly and Kiwanuka has proven effective at both LB and DE.

scottyboy
01-17-2009, 10:27 AM
WELL, since we're talking trades for WR's, here's my scenario:

Listen, the Rams are rebuilding, they're not contending next year, everyone knows that. I LOVE Torry Holt. Class act and grade A talent. Love the person and player. He is aging, and had a pretty down year, and is rumored to want out of St Louis(can ya blame him?). I think one of our 2nd's or perhaps a 3rd and 4th would get the job done considering his age and down season, but with a legit QB and offense around him once again, I believe he could get back into form. Not Torry Holt circa greatest show on turf, but back to a top 15 WR who would be a great vet presence and help Eli for 2-3 years while we develop our younger WR's. And anyone who thinks he's losing a step and it wasn't the Rams incompetent offense, check out that catch he made against us. Yea, dude can still ball

Geo
01-17-2009, 10:32 AM
You love Torry Holt???

You've just broken my heart, scotty.

Geo
01-17-2009, 10:33 AM
Btw, Holt also has one year remaining on his current contract.

Unless you feel you can extend him, it's not worth it to trade a 2nd or 3rd for only one year.

scottyboy
01-17-2009, 10:35 AM
Btw, Holt also has one year remaining on his current contract.

Unless you feel you can extend him, it's not worth it to trade a 2nd or 3rd for only one year.

I'm sorry, I just looooove Holt for some reason.

And him having 1 year could benefit us in trade talks and really give up only a late 3rd for him and a conditional pick or so. it'd make sense, and I feel it'd be better than selling the farm for Braylon or spending a googillion dollars on Whosyourmomma and pissing off the guy who puts the names on the jerseys even more

Number 10
01-17-2009, 10:52 AM
WELL, since we're talking trades for WR's, here's my scenario:

Listen, the Rams are rebuilding, they're not contending next year, everyone knows that. I LOVE Torry Holt. Class act and grade A talent. Love the person and player. He is aging, and had a pretty down year, and is rumored to want out of St Louis(can ya blame him?). I think one of our 2nd's or perhaps a 3rd and 4th would get the job done considering his age and down season, but with a legit QB and offense around him once again, I believe he could get back into form. Not Torry Holt circa greatest show on turf, but back to a top 15 WR who would be a great vet presence and help Eli for 2-3 years while we develop our younger WR's. And anyone who thinks he's losing a step and it wasn't the Rams incompetent offense, check out that catch he made against us. Yea, dude can still ball

If Toomer is out, I wouldn't mind Holt, but only as a free agent pickup if the Rams cut him. His cap number, after a trade, would be around $8 million. That would be a tough restructure and it may require a multi year committment.

scottyboy
01-17-2009, 11:33 AM
If Toomer is out, I wouldn't mind Holt, but only as a free agent pickup if the Rams cut him. His cap number, after a trade, would be around $8 million. That would be a tough restructure and it may require a multi year committment.

agreed, BUT, I feel if we did pull a trade it would come with a restructure and that would probably be in the area of a 2 year deal with 3rd option for somewhere in the 4 mil ballpark. If a hypothetical deal happened, there's no doubt in my mind Reese would have a new contract waiting to be signed within the hour of said trade.

Giantsfan1080
01-17-2009, 12:03 PM
Holt's not a bad idea at all if we can get him on the cheap.

giantsfan
01-17-2009, 03:06 PM
But Holt wouldn't really replace what Plax brings us. He'd be great to replace Toomer if he gets cut but we still need someone to fill in for plax if he's not back.

BTW re-watched the NT game yesterday and a banged up Percy harvin > a healthy reggie bush

scottyboy
01-17-2009, 03:08 PM
But Holt wouldn't really replace what Plax brings us. He'd be great to replace Toomer if he gets cut but we still need someone to fill in for plax if he's not back.

BTW re-watched the NT game yesterday and a banged up Percy harvin > a healthy reggie bush

Holt doesn't give us a huge target ala Plax, but he still has big play ability. He's still, IMO, an elite WR, top 15.

giantsfan
01-17-2009, 05:35 PM
I disagree with you there. He can still make some big plays, but amani can still make SOME big plays. I think Holt isn't nearly dynamic enough for us to make him our main target.

scottyboy
01-17-2009, 09:48 PM
I disagree with you there. He can still make some big plays, but amani can still make SOME big plays. I think Holt isn't nearly dynamic enough for us to make him our main target.

I wouldn't compare them at all. Amani at this stage in his career is a possesion WR whos last big plays were the superman RAC in the playoffs against Dallas and the Pitt spec catch. Holt would spread the field for us big time

Big_Pete
01-18-2009, 06:42 AM
If we could trade for Holt, it likely wouldn't be too expensive. He turns 33 in may.
His 2009 base salary is $6.65 million and he's off contract in 2010


Another option for our passing game is Tony Gonzalez.
His base salaries for 2009: $4 million, 2010: $4.5 million, 2011: $5.75 million.

I could see us trading for both (perhaps a late 2nd for Holt and a 3rd for Gonzalez)

Holt and Gonzalez would give us some legitimate weapons in the passing game while our youngsters (including any draft picks) develop.

The pressure would then be on Burress, either he has a major attitude change or he is an ex-giant.

I could see Toomer getting a reasonable contract extenstion, but he would have to fight for a roster spot.

In fact I could see three possible trades this offseason:

1. trade our 2nd round pick to St Louis for Tory Holt

2. trade our 3rd round pick to Kansas City for TE Tony Gonzalez

3. trade our early 5th round pick (from New Orleans) to Jacksonville for LB Mike Peterson

scottyboy
01-18-2009, 09:05 AM
If we could trade for Holt, it likely wouldn't be too expensive. He turns 33 in may.
His 2009 base salary is $6.65 million and he's off contract in 2010


Another option for our passing game is Tony Gonzalez.
His base salaries for 2009: $4 million, 2010: $4.5 million, 2011: $5.75 million.

I could see us trading for both (perhaps a late 2nd for Holt and a 3rd for Gonzalez)

Holt and Gonzalez would give us some legitimate weapons in the passing game while our youngsters (including any draft picks) develop.

The pressure would then be on Burress, either he has a major attitude change or he is an ex-giant.

I could see Toomer getting a reasonable contract extenstion, but he would have to fight for a roster spot.

In fact I could see three possible trades this offseason:

1. trade our 2nd round pick to St Louis for Tory Holt

2. trade our 3rd round pick to Kansas City for TE Tony Gonzalez

3. trade our early 5th round pick (from New Orleans) to Jacksonville for LB Mike Peterson

I love those ideas, as we'd still have a 1st, 2nd and some comp picks. And all 3 guys would be great for us.

one thing: Peterson is a FA this year, so we can keep that pick and just sign him! :D

Toomer's a guy I see coming back, because of his loyalty, and I truly believe Eli will push both sides to have him back

giantsfan
01-18-2009, 05:48 PM
If Maybin doesn't have the combine people expect and he's available at our pick do we pull the trigger? Personally I think he's a top 20 value as he's a great athlete with very good power and great pass rushing skill despite needing to put on 15 pounds to play DE at the next level.

Turtlepower
01-18-2009, 06:42 PM
Until all personnel decisions are final, I really can't speculate on anything besides BPA at our pick.

NotoriousT
01-18-2009, 07:45 PM
If we could trade for Holt, it likely wouldn't be too expensive. He turns 33 in may.
His 2009 base salary is $6.65 million and he's off contract in 2010


Another option for our passing game is Tony Gonzalez.
His base salaries for 2009: $4 million, 2010: $4.5 million, 2011: $5.75 million.

I could see us trading for both (perhaps a late 2nd for Holt and a 3rd for Gonzalez)

Holt and Gonzalez would give us some legitimate weapons in the passing game while our youngsters (including any draft picks) develop.

The pressure would then be on Burress, either he has a major attitude change or he is an ex-giant.

I could see Toomer getting a reasonable contract extenstion, but he would have to fight for a roster spot.

In fact I could see three possible trades this offseason:

1. trade our 2nd round pick to St Louis for Tory Holt

2. trade our 3rd round pick to Kansas City for TE Tony Gonzalez

3. trade our early 5th round pick (from New Orleans) to Jacksonville for LB Mike Peterson


I don't like any of these ideas at all. It reminds me of something Ernie Accorsi would do.

We've gotten where we are today through the draft and I don't know why everyone is so quick to change that. Like you said, Holt is 33. Not only is he 33 but he's coming off the worst year of his entire career. Was it because he was upset with his situation and the offense wasn't great? Maybe. Maybe it was him finally hitting that wall and succumbing to age. Who knows? All I know is that I don't want to give up a high draft pick for a 33 year old who may or may not still be good and will almost certainly be gone after one season. Not worth it at all IMO. Look at the two 2nd rounders under Jerry Reese, Steve Smith and Terrell Thomas. Two very young, very good players for a guy whose career is all but done and might help us for one year? No thanks.

Tony Gonzalez is a little more interesting and is a better idea. He'd be easier to get (read: cheaper) and has shown he's still got it. However, if Kildrive is still our OC, it's not worth it. Kildrive doesn't use his TEs in the passing game enough and I doubt it'd change with Gonzo in the lineup (because that would be a smart adjustment). Kevin Boss has shown great flashes, he just doesn't get many looks in his direction. I think I rather keep the draft pick, especially if it's anything higher than a 3rd.

As Scotty said, Peterson is a FA. He might be someone interesting to look at but I'm not sure anything would come of it. I think we all agree that picking up a LB in the draft is something we need to do. Also, as much as some Giants fans might not like it, I don't know if Pierce is done. Reese has made some surprise cuts in the past but I'm not sure if the coaches/FO are ready to part ways with the partying Pierce.


In short, I don't like trading away draft picks for old, aging vets. We've seen first hand (thanks to Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones) that trading away your draft does NOT work. I know we choked to the Eagles and that was heart-breaking. I know we (potentially) have lost Plax and that really hurts our offense. However, it's not time to panic. Trading away our future for a bunch of over the hill players is a good way to get us back to the basement of the NFC East. We're still a great team. Do we have some holes? Of course but name me a team that doesn't. Let's not freak out and suggest sacrificing our future for some stop-gap band-aids.

scottyboy
01-18-2009, 08:25 PM
I don't like any of these ideas at all. It reminds me of something Ernie Accorsi would do.

We've gotten where we are today through the draft and I don't know why everyone is so quick to change that. Like you said, Holt is 33. Not only is he 33 but he's coming off the worst year of his entire career. Was it because he was upset with his situation and the offense wasn't great? Maybe. Maybe it was him finally hitting that wall and succumbing to age. Who knows? All I know is that I don't want to give up a high draft pick for a 33 year old who may or may not still be good and will almost certainly be gone after one season. Not worth it at all IMO. Look at the two 2nd rounders under Jerry Reese, Steve Smith and Terrell Thomas. Two very young, very good players for a guy whose career is all but done and might help us for one year? No thanks.

Tony Gonzalez is a little more interesting and is a better idea. He'd be easier to get (read: cheaper) and has shown he's still got it. However, if Kildrive is still our OC, it's not worth it. Kildrive doesn't use his TEs in the passing game enough and I doubt it'd change with Gonzo in the lineup (because that would be a smart adjustment). Kevin Boss has shown great flashes, he just doesn't get many looks in his direction. I think I rather keep the draft pick, especially if it's anything higher than a 3rd.

As Scotty said, Peterson is a FA. He might be someone interesting to look at but I'm not sure anything would come of it. I think we all agree that picking up a LB in the draft is something we need to do. Also, as much as some Giants fans might not like it, I don't know if Pierce is done. Reese has made some surprise cuts in the past but I'm not sure if the coaches/FO are ready to part ways with the partying Pierce.


In short, I don't like trading away draft picks for old, aging vets. We've seen first hand (thanks to Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones) that trading away your draft does NOT work. I know we choked to the Eagles and that was heart-breaking. I know we (potentially) have lost Plax and that really hurts our offense. However, it's not time to panic. Trading away our future for a bunch of over the hill players is a good way to get us back to the basement of the NFC East. We're still a great team. Do we have some holes? Of course but name me a team that doesn't. Let's not freak out and suggest sacrificing our future for some stop-gap band-aids.

I agree with you. I would be in favor of one of the 2 trades(and not at the prices suggested), but not both. I'd be in favor of Holt because I truly believe he's got quite a bit left in the tank. He wouldn't only be a stop gap, as we've got youngin's ala Manningham, Smith and even Moss and no doubt a draft choice. So we'd have talent waiting in the wings.

Gonzo would open up the field for us on 2 TE sets and such. that'd be a nice luxury, but one i'm not sure we can afford right now...

Number 10
01-19-2009, 09:33 AM
Ah too much talk about a WR. I doubt we go there with our first pick. The position is deep through the first 2 rounds.

I know we discussed BJ Raji a little, but I think we have a legit shot at him only if we trade up into the 20-24 range. Not very costly and I think he could give our defense a hude boost moving forward. I like Cofield, love Robbins. Alford is a mere rotatational guy. But down the road none of those guys will be big factors in a run stuffing defense and I would love to see Raji, a hometown kid, in a Giants uniform. A Keith Hamilton type runn stuffer and a Fred Robbins type pass rusher. I'd love it.

bigbluedefense
01-19-2009, 09:36 AM
Ah too much talk about a WR. I doubt we go there with our first pick. The position is deep through the first 2 rounds.

I know we discussed BJ Raji a little, but I think we have a legit shot at him only if we trade up into the 20-24 range. Not very costly and I think he could give our defense a hude boost moving forward. I like Cofield, love Robbins. Alford is a mere rotatational guy. But down the road none of those guys will be big factors in a run stuffing defense and I would love to see Raji, a hometown kid, in a Giants uniform. A Keith Hamilton type runn stuffer and a Fred Robbins type pass rusher. I'd love it.

he's #1 on my big board.

Raji would do wonders for our defense.

Number 10
01-19-2009, 09:40 AM
he's #1 on my big board.

Raji would do wonders for our defense.

As in #1 overall? Wow.

I stated a couple weeks ago that I thought I had him rated ahead of anyone else because he was top 10. haha

I can see why you like him, he really does fit in what we have needed in there for years.

bigbluedefense
01-19-2009, 09:46 AM
As in #1 overall? Wow.

I stated a couple weeks ago that I thought I had him rated ahead of anyone else because he was top 10. haha

I can see why you like him, he really does fit in what we have needed in there for years.

#1 on our realistic board. or it mightve been Oher. either way, he was 1 or 2.

he'd do more for our defense than any other player available in the 20s in the 1st round.

Number 10
01-19-2009, 09:49 AM
#1 on our realistic board. or it mightve been Oher. either way, he was 1 or 2.

he'd do more for our defense than any other player available in the 20s in the 1st round.

Gotcha.

Yes he could be an immediate starter, although it would be a healthy rotation to spell Cofield and Robbins. Both guys got overworked in 2008, their PT was up almost 15% since 2007.

bigbluedefense
01-19-2009, 09:52 AM
Gotcha.

Yes he could be an immediate starter, although it would be a healthy rotation to spell Cofield and Robbins. Both guys got overworked in 2008, their PT was up almost 15% since 2007.

our whole dline got overworked. thats why im now in favor of moving Kiwi back to full time DE and using a fresh rotation throughout the year.

our DT depth is terrible too. Raji would free up our ends, and keep our other DTs fresher, and help our run defense.

I know LB is a big concern, and rightfully so, but one thing people are ignoring is the true culprit of our LB core is the MIKE. In this scheme, OLBs aren't nearly as important as a game changing MIKE, and our MIKE is physically a dud.

I don't see us dropping Pierce though, and thats where the problem lies.

scottyboy
01-19-2009, 11:25 AM
I agree, DT is probably the first defensive position we address unless Sintim falls. His talent is too much to pass up where we are. Raji would be awesome.

I'm a little scared with Lafell going back to school. I liked him and Britt. Hopefully we land Britt with NO's 2nd pick. THat'd be glorious!

We've got some young LB talent, but Sheridan has made mediocre LB'ers work in our D, and if he's our DC, I'll feel confident with whatever LB'ers he throws out there(albeit, I'd like some more speed at LB!)

Giantsfan1080
01-19-2009, 11:55 AM
I agree, DT is probably the first defensive position we address unless Sintim falls. His talent is too much to pass up where we are. Raji would be awesome.

I'm a little scared with Lafell going back to school. I liked him and Britt. Hopefully we land Britt with NO's 2nd pick. THat'd be glorious!

We've got some young LB talent, but Sheridan has made mediocre LB'ers work in our D, and if he's our DC, I'll feel confident with whatever LB'ers he throws out there(albeit, I'd like some more speed at LB!)

I thought LaFell declared for the draft?

bigbluedefense
01-19-2009, 11:58 AM
I really have no idea what we should do. Burress's situation is so huge, bc that will dictate our approach to FA and the draft.

scottyboy
01-19-2009, 12:02 PM
I thought LaFell declared for the draft?

word is he pulled out(of the draft). They have a 3 day period after the deadline where they can go back and he went back

giantsfan
01-19-2009, 01:16 PM
I love Raji but I seriously doubt he falls into the 20s, hell I wouldn't be surprised if he went top 10.

As for Plax it really is big, I've just got a feeling that he'll be back for at least next season so I'm hoping for DHB unless Sintim, Raji or Britton are available at our pick. If he's not I think we need a quicker impact rookie, a Hakeem Nicks or Kenny Britt who already know what a route is.

bigbluedefense
01-19-2009, 01:17 PM
I love Raji but I seriously doubt he falls into the 20s, hell I wouldn't be surprised if he went top 10.

As for Plax it really is big, I've just got a feeling that he'll be back for at least next season so I'm hoping for DHB unless Sintim, Raji or Britton are available at our pick. If he's not I think we need a quicker impact rookie, a Hakeem Nicks or Kenny Britt who already know what a route is.

big NT type of DTs always fall before draft day. their "motor" and "conditioning" get questioned, and they slip for it.

you have to be a special special NT prospect to be taken in the teens, like Ngata. even then many felt it was a "reach" at the time.

giantsfan
01-19-2009, 01:30 PM
big NT type of DTs always fall before draft day. their "motor" and "conditioning" get questioned, and they slip for it.

you have to be a special special NT prospect to be taken in the teens, like Ngata. even then many felt it was a "reach" at the time.

Raji's motor won't get questioned, his "conditioning" might, but not for long and he's the type of good kid a team will fall in love with, especially considering how quick he is and how good of penetrator he is despiting having the size and frame of a 3-4 NT.

Number 10
01-19-2009, 01:31 PM
Lets not forget Raji had to sit out last year because of academic issues. Hopefully that will get him to drop a bit.

giantsfan
01-19-2009, 01:36 PM
Lets not forget Raji had to sit out last year because of academic issues. Hopefully that will get him to drop a bit.

Look I'd love to get him, I just fear his stock is too high at the moment and we'r'e going to be looking at Sintim, Britton or one of the WRs with our first pick.

As for the Roy Williams trade he's also a lot younger and wasn't looking for a ridunkulous contract like Boldin, plus Dallas got raped in that trade. Honestly I think a first and third could net us Boldin, especially if he keeps seeming to be a problem, feuding with haley and storming out, etc.

bigbluedefense
01-19-2009, 01:40 PM
Well, let's look at it this way. Most of the teams that are interested in Raji and would need a guy like him draft too early to pick him and will most likely take players that fit other needs.

He won't go top 10, so let's eliminate all those guys. So the issue is picks 11 - 28.

The teams that pick then that could use Raji are:

Denver
SD
Detroit
Miami
Atlanta


Denver drafts too high and has too many other needs to take him, so i think they pass.

SD could get him, but I have a feeling they try to squeeze more time out of Jamal Williams and pass

Detroit is a concern, Schwartz might see his Haynesworth replacement in Raji. I have a feeling that he'll try to snag Vickerson from Tennessee if he can't snag Haynesworth, and he might go after a LT with this selection to protect Stafford, so this is 50/50.

Miami could definitely nab him. But they might go for a pass rushing OLB like Sintim instead. 50/50

Atlanta..Mike Smith loves bulky DTs, and might pick him. But he also needs desperate help in the LB core. So this is 50/50.

I think those teams are the ones to be concerned about.

Giantsfan1080
01-19-2009, 02:15 PM
Anybody get a good look at Terrance Taylor this year? I know the Michigan DT's have dropped in the draft the last few years(Watson and Branch) but with our second 2nd round pick might he be an option or will he be gone?

Number 10
01-19-2009, 02:21 PM
Anybody get a good look at Terrance Taylor this year? I know the Michigan DT's have dropped in the draft the last few years(Watson and Branch) but with our second 2nd round pick might he be an option or will he be gone?

I liked him more in 2006 and 2007 than in 2008. What does that mean? He benefitted from talent around him more than vice versa. He'll be there in the 2nd but he isn' the kind of presence I want to add inside. If we strike out in FA and the draft prior to the 3rd, he'd be an option but we'll still be looking for that DT in the future if we add him.

Turtlepower
01-19-2009, 02:21 PM
Anybody get a good look at Terrance Taylor this year? I know the Michigan DT's have dropped in the draft the last few years(Watson and Branch) but with our second 2nd round pick might he be an option or will he be gone?

He has a good chance to be around for our 3rd round pick and even a possibility of a 4th round pick. That is about how well he has played this year...

skiinginNJ
01-19-2009, 04:00 PM
any thoughts on drafting clay matthews and moving him inside in our scheme? he seems to be at his best attacking the LOS, he is pretty good athlete (better than pierce), he has good size. would this be a waste of his pass rushing skills?

LTgiants
01-19-2009, 04:45 PM
i dont like clay matthews i see him being a worse version of bobby carpenter

Malaka
01-19-2009, 06:31 PM
i dont like Brian Cushing i see him being a worse version of bobby carpenter

Fixed that for you...

Clay Matthews plays hard, has a high motor and is no way soft or disappears from games, like Barbie Carpenter, they may be similar physically but not how they play

Cushing on the other hand, is a physical specimen, but is more comparable to Carpenter, but I'll still take Cushing over Carpenter as he is a much better pass rusher than Barbie, and I think if he gets the right coach to light a fire in him he'll be fine.

LTgiants
01-19-2009, 06:33 PM
Fixed that for you...

Clay Matthews plays hard, has a high motor and is no way soft or disappears from games, like Barbie Carpenter, they may be similar physically but not how they play

Cushing on the other hand, is a physical specimen, but is more comparable to Carpenter, but I'll still take Cushing over Carpenter as he is a much better pass rusher than Barbie, and I think if he gets the right coach to light a fire in him he'll be fine.

lol nice quote change

i dont like either of the 2 i prefer cushing over clay matthews though but i rather draft another lb over the 2 of them

Malaka
01-19-2009, 07:05 PM
lol nice quote change

i dont like either of the 2 i prefer cushing over clay matthews though but i rather draft another lb over the 2 of them

They are physically similar, but play much differently.

I'd prefer Clint Sintim over both, but if we don't get Clint, I'd love Clay in the third, maybe even the 2nd, as he is a great fit for SAM in our defense, and he is just what our defense needs, high motor, exceptional pass rusher, and a playmaker at the LB spot. Sintim even moreso, but we might not get so lucky to grab him. Cushing is a better fit for a 3-4 but he wouldn't be bad in our system.

Malaka
01-19-2009, 07:07 PM
Speaking of USC LBers, I would love to get Kaluka Maiava in like the 5th/6th round to play WILL.

LTgiants
01-19-2009, 07:08 PM
They are physically similar, but play much differently.

I'd prefer Clint Sintim over both, but if we don't get Clint, I'd love Clay in the third, maybe even the 2nd, as he is a great fit for SAM in our defense, and he is just what our defense needs, high motor, exceptional pass rusher, and a playmaker at the LB spot. Sintim even moreso, but we might not get so lucky to grab him. Cushing is a better fit for a 3-4 but he wouldn't be bad in our system.

i am a Sintim fan as well but if we don't get him i would go for Casillas, Levy, hell maybe even Marcus Freeman before i would pick Clay Matthews

Malaka
01-19-2009, 07:18 PM
i am a Sintim fan as well but if we don't get him i would go for Casillas, Levy, hell maybe even Marcus Freeman before i would pick Clay Matthews

Well, all three LB spots need an upgrade, but I like what I have seen from Bryan Kehl I think he can be an above average starter at WILL, and Goff has the potential to take over for Pierce, as for SAM Danny Clark needs to go, and DeOssie has been disappointing.

Sintim would be perfect for SAM in our system, as would Clay Matthews.

Freeman would be a terrible fit for our defense IMO, although I do like him for a team like the Colts or Bucs who have no problem with fast undersized LBers.

Cushing would be decent but not a perfect fit like his teammate Matthews.

Can you elaborate more on the dislike of Clay Matthews because I love him for the Giants.

LTgiants
01-19-2009, 07:28 PM
Well, all three LB spots need an upgrade, but I like what I have seen from Bryan Kehl I think he can be an above average starter at WILL, and Goff has the potential to take over for Pierce, as for SAM Danny Clark needs to go, and DeOssie has been disappointing.

Sintim would be perfect for SAM in our system, as would Clay Matthews.

Freeman would be a terrible fit for our defense IMO, although I do like him for a team like the Colts or Bucs who have no problem with fast undersized LBers.

Cushing would be decent but not a perfect fit like his teammate Matthews.

Can you elaborate more on the dislike of Clay Matthews because I love him for the Giants.

I actually think kehl is gonna be a pretty good player for us next yr

Hopefully Goff stays healthy enough to be able to play and be able to learn how to do the mental stuff that AP does for our defense

Danny Clark can stay he is fine depth player he still has a yr or two on his contract we shouldn't be starting him though

Deossie never really gets a shot at linebacker he is more of a special teams guy and i doubt we are gonna cut our snapper and a good coverage guy

my dislike for Clay Matthews as a draft pick is all he can do is blitz and even that i think he is a little overrated cause he i don't see him having the same success blitzing as in college. I never see him do anything else i think if you want to draft a LB who just blitz you can do that later on in the draft not during the 1st day.

Malaka
01-19-2009, 07:35 PM
I actually think kehl is gonna be a pretty good player for us next yr

Hopefully Goff stays healthy enough to be able to play and be able to learn how to do the mental stuff that AP does for our defense

Danny Clark can stay he is fine depth player he still has a yr or two on his contract we shouldn't be starting him though

Deossie never really gets a shot at linebacker he is more of a special teams guy and i doubt we are gonna cut our snapper and a good coverage guy

my dislike for Clay Matthews as a draft pick is all he can do is blitz and even that i think he is a little overrated cause he i don't see him having the same success blitzing as in college. I never see him do anything else i think if you want to draft a LB who just blitz you can do that later on in the draft not during the 1st day.

I never said cut DeOssie, his LSing is good, but when he has played I think he has been disappointing.

Matthews is at best decent in coverage, but has very good instincts to go along with his pass rushing, and is a great tackler. He makes plays and is all over the field, plus he seems so much like a Giants kind of guy, excellent work ethic, smart, tough, competitive, good pass rusher, I just think he is such a perfect fit for our team and is very Jerry Reese type pick.

LTgiants
01-19-2009, 07:41 PM
I never said cut DeOssie, his LSing is good, but when he has played I think he has been disappointing.

Matthews is at best decent in coverage, but has very good instincts to go along with his pass rushing, and is a great tackler. He makes plays and is all over the field, plus he seems so much like a Giants kind of guy, excellent work ethic, smart, tough, competitive, good pass rusher, I just think he is such a perfect fit for our team and is very Jerry Reese type pick.

i trust Jerry as much as any other giants fan but in my opinion i wouldn't pick Matthews i have never seen anything close to decent from him in coverage and we need linebackers who can cover as well as blitz. i wouldn't say he is a great tackler cause i have watched USC a couple times and i have seen him miss quite a few tackles. The rest of what you said it sounds good but we have a lot of good character guys already but we also need guys with talent as well( I am in no way knocking him for having a good character or saying we should draft a T.O. type)

Malaka
01-19-2009, 07:45 PM
i trust Jerry as much as any other giants fan but in my opinion i wouldn't pick Matthews i have never seen anything close to decent from him in coverage and we need linebackers who can cover as well as blitz. i wouldn't say he is a great tackler cause i have watched USC a couple times and i have seen him miss quite a few tackles. The rest of what you said it sounds good but we have a lot of good character guys already but we also need guys with talent as well( I am in no way knocking him for having a good character or saying we should draft a T.O. type)

What I meant by decent at best was his best coverage, is decent at best compared to others.

We have two different opinions, he makes plays and I like him, but I can't make you like him.

I just hope you know that, he is no way like Bobby Carpenter, he actually is all over the field, and is tough unlike Barbie.

LTgiants
01-19-2009, 07:50 PM
What I meant by decent at best was his best coverage, is decent at best compared to others.

We have two different opinions, he makes plays and I like him, but I can't make you like him.

I just hope you know that, he is no way like Bobby Carpenter, he actually is all over the field, and is tough unlike Barbie.

i am not trying to bash you for liking him or saying you wrong for liking him you can have your opinion and i respect that

actually from what you say it makes me want to take another look at him

i just think it shows something about his coverage ability that Pete Carroll would rather have him blitz then ever put him in coverage

he maybe be tougher then bobby but i don't see much difference in ability right now maybe i will get a different opinion of him after taking a more extensive look

Malaka
01-19-2009, 07:56 PM
i am not trying to bash you for liking him or saying you wrong for liking him you can have your opinion and i respect that

actually from what you say it makes me want to take another look at him

i just think it shows something about his coverage ability that Pete Carroll would rather have him blitz then ever put him in coverage

he maybe be tougher then bobby but i don't see much difference in ability right now maybe i will get a different opinion of him after taking a more extensive look

Bobby and Clay are almost exactly alike from ability/physical standpoint, 6'2 around 245, and very similar speed. Difference is Clay stands out while he plays, like I said is a lot tougher, and is also head and shoulders above Carpenter from a mental standpoint IMO. Besides, Bobby was looked at as a first round pick, so Clay Matthews being similar to him is not too bad, just because Bobby never was able to play in a 4-3 does not mean he is terrible, I wanna see Bobby in a 4-3 before I call him a bust.

LTgiants
01-19-2009, 08:03 PM
Bobby and Clay are almost exactly alike from ability/physical standpoint, 6'2 around 245, and very similar speed. Difference is Clay stands out while he plays, like I said is a lot tougher, and is also head and shoulders above Carpenter from a mental standpoint IMO. Besides, Bobby was looked at as a first round pick, so Clay Matthews being similar to him is not too bad, just because Bobby never was able to play in a 4-3 does not mean he is terrible, I wanna see Bobby in a 4-3 before I call him a bust.

I am not calling Bobby a bust. Bobby was looked at as 1st round pick after a good combine. Maybe Bobby will be better in 4-3

Clay stands out cause he blitz almost every play and is usually getting a sack going against a weak Pac-10 this yr. Look like i said before if he was to be picked by the giants i would support him cause I believe Jerry Reese is doing what he thinks is best for our team

Maybe you are right I will take another look at him and see

scottyboy
01-19-2009, 09:11 PM
Speaking of USC LBers, I would love to get Kaluka Maiava in like the 5th/6th round to play WILL.

not a chance in bloody hell he falls that far. especially not after his rose bowl performance.

giantsfan
01-20-2009, 02:35 AM
Well, let's look at it this way. Most of the teams that are interested in Raji and would need a guy like him draft too early to pick him and will most likely take players that fit other needs.

He won't go top 10, so let's eliminate all those guys. So the issue is picks 11 - 28.

The teams that pick then that could use Raji are:

Denver
SD
Detroit
Miami
Atlanta


Denver drafts too high and has too many other needs to take him, so i think they pass.

SD could get him, but I have a feeling they try to squeeze more time out of Jamal Williams and pass

Detroit is a concern, Schwartz might see his Haynesworth replacement in Raji. I have a feeling that he'll try to snag Vickerson from Tennessee if he can't snag Haynesworth, and he might go after a LT with this selection to protect Stafford, so this is 50/50.

Miami could definitely nab him. But they might go for a pass rushing OLB like Sintim instead. 50/50

Atlanta..Mike Smith loves bulky DTs, and might pick him. But he also needs desperate help in the LB core. So this is 50/50.

I think those teams are the ones to be concerned about.

I think Raji can go as high as green bay or even Jacksonville, if they fall in love with one of the late first/early second round LTs, Denver with their new 3-4 or if he last Detroit. But even if he makes it past those teams, which would mean some major value at other positions there's no way Atlanta passes, NT is simply their biggest need and Raji's a remarkable value at that point. Plus thier GM comes from that Build your Dlines up early new england school of thought.

I just can't imagine Raji lasting to our pick, and realistically our best shot would be trading up into the early twenties, although if we do that I'd hope we'd only be doing it for a dropping Michael Oher or a lesser trade up but for Sintim.

Fixed that for you...

Clay Matthews plays hard, has a high motor and is no way soft or disappears from games, like Barbie Carpenter, they may be similar physically but not how they play

Cushing on the other hand, is a physical specimen, but is more comparable to Carpenter, but I'll still take Cushing over Carpenter as he is a much better pass rusher than Barbie, and I think if he gets the right coach to light a fire in him he'll be fine.

People are forgetting what great prospect Bobby Carpenter was, he was force with his hand down in the Big Ten and was used in coverage and he excelled, unfortunately once he joined the big boys in the NFL he's wilted. But as a prospect I think of Clay as a poor man's Bobby Carpenter with much better instincts and drive.

Cushing has just always disappointed me, he looks the part when he's standing still, but once the whistle blows he looks stiff and slow to react and really overwhelming, maybe carrol was just giving him too many responsibilities but he was so stiff I don't like his chances.

giantsfan
01-20-2009, 02:44 AM
Here's a draft for us that I'd adore:
1. Clint Sintim
He'd be a monster in our scheme.

2a. Phil Loadholt
I love how dominant he is once he's got his big ole mits on you. I also think he could be a LT with how much we run the ball although I suspect he'd struggle with elite pass rushers like Diehl does for a while.

2b. Ramses Barden
He reminds me soo much of plax without the headaches, great size, strong, good leaper, natural hands and deceptive speed. His route running's even pretty good despite his small school roots.

3a. Will Davis
I like Will Davis a lot as a prospect and think he would've been a solid second round pick had he come out last year. He'll get in shape and fill out to 6'3" 270 and be a very good fourth DE to develop.

3b. Terrance Taylor
I think he'll be a solid value at this point and if he can get back to his previously levels, his intensity seemed off this year, he could be a very good contributer to our rotation.

bigbluedefense
01-20-2009, 10:58 AM
Sintim isn't gonna fall to us anymore. I think he's taken by Miami since Orakpo and Brown will be long gone by then. They either nab him or Raji.

No great LB talent will be there for us at 29. Thats what stinks about all this.

In fact, if we want a player that fits one of our needs other than WR that would be worth the value of the 29th pick, there are none available.

So we might have to be aggressive in this draft. Rey Malauaga is a guy who i questioned as a player, but Mayock put his stamp on him, and ill never question Mayock again. So i guess he is pretty good.

The thing with Rey is he's only a MIKE for us, he could be a run thumping MIKE if he learns to take the right angles. He would be a punishing blitzer too, which is important bc we blitz the MIKE a lot.


As much as we want a OLB, the real issue is MIKE guys. The problem is, i don't see us replacing Pierce, which means we'll have to try to mask some of his deficiencies with an athletic OLB. But if we were to draft a stud MIKE, and start Kehl at WILL and Goff at SAM we'd be fine.

bigbluedefense
01-20-2009, 11:09 AM
And just to clarify, I don't think Rey would fall to us either (no way). He could potentially be another trade possibility is all im saying.


Although that obviously wouldn't be my first choice, none of us are the GM of the Giants, so who knows what Reese has planned.

bigbluedefense
01-20-2009, 11:42 AM
Im starting to warm up to Rey.

I need to see a couple more games. But he could be just what the doctor ordered at MIKE for us.

He is an absolute truck when it comes to blitzing, and he can lay wood. Not the best in coverage, but decent, as long as he can show me better angles in the run game id be sold on him. just need to see more of him.

He's not a great fit for everyone, but for our scheme he could potentially be a great fit at MIKE. Again, I have to see more before I reach a declarative statement.

He did unimpress me during the bowl game though.

Giantsfan1080
01-20-2009, 10:45 PM
Kenny Britt and his "people" met with seven (7) agents last week in trying to put his "NFL Team" together.

Britt is being both cautious and aggressive at the same time. He is training in Arizona but is not committed to an agent who would normally foot "all expenses" in exchange for signing on that dotted line. Britt's expenses are being paid by his new financial advisor who was recommended by Giants' DE Justin Tuck who happened to be chatting with a Britt family member and accepted Tuck's financial advisor recommendation.

Britt has also selected a personal attorney.

Right now, he is trying to get his 40 time dramatically down to increase his chances to jump into the First Round.

Be interested to see who Britt picks for an agent. Several have significant ties to the Giants' organization



Hopefully this helps the Giants get him.

hugegmenfan
01-21-2009, 02:13 AM
Kenny Britt and his "people" met with seven (7) agents last week in trying to put his "NFL Team" together.

Britt is being both cautious and aggressive at the same time. He is training in Arizona but is not committed to an agent who would normally foot "all expenses" in exchange for signing on that dotted line. Britt's expenses are being paid by his new financial advisor who was recommended by Giants' DE Justin Tuck who happened to be chatting with a Britt family member and accepted Tuck's financial advisor recommendation.

Britt has also selected a personal attorney.

Right now, he is trying to get his 40 time dramatically down to increase his chances to jump into the First Round.

Be interested to see who Britt picks for an agent. Several have significant ties to the Giants' organization



Hopefully this helps the Giants get him.

whats the source

hugegmenfan
01-21-2009, 05:53 PM
Clint Sintim has apparently disappointed at Senior Bowl practices- which def would influence draft stock and probably make him slip to the 2nd round. I would really like a LB 1st round but I am also not a big fan of Cushing, who else is worthy of a late 1st round draft pick at the position...

Number 10
01-21-2009, 07:14 PM
Clint Sintim has apparently disappointed at Senior Bowl practices- which def would influence draft stock and probably make him slip to the 2nd round. I would really like a LB 1st round but I am also not a big fan of Cushing, who else is worthy of a late 1st round draft pick at the position...

If you are taking so much stock into what is happening at the Senior Bowl, then you have to note how much Cushing has impressed. He is physically tossing people around, delivering monster hits and...get this...looking fluid in coverage.

What do you expect out of Sintim? This is the 1st time he is being put in space consistently and like I said a couple months ago, he won't look natural in that role for awhile.

Geo
01-21-2009, 07:30 PM
Sintim is proving himself to be very solid, and if anything, probably slightly more promising as a 4-3 SAM since coming into the week. I wouldn't be too worried.

scottyboy
01-21-2009, 07:38 PM
Clint Sintim has apparently disappointed at Senior Bowl practices- which def would influence draft stock and probably make him slip to the 2nd round. I would really like a LB 1st round but I am also not a big fan of Cushing, who else is worthy of a late 1st round draft pick at the position...

totally ridiculous. i'm more worried he won't fall to our 1st, not that he'd be a reach there. if he falls he'd be another Kenny Phillips. a stud guy who somehow fell

Geo
01-21-2009, 07:39 PM
Miami may be looking his way, especially as there's no chance (at least imo) they will get Raji.

NotoriousT
01-21-2009, 09:51 PM
I don't think I'll ever understand why people want us to draft an OT early. We have the best o-line in the league and none of them are ancient, injury prone, or FAs this offseason. Does Diehl get beat by elite speed rushers? Sure. But who doesn't? That's why those guys are ELITE!

People also seem to underestimate the importance of team chemistry, especially on an offensive line. Not only do they all know each others tendencies but they know the offense, Eli's audibles, O'Hara's audibles, and if BJ stays, then his tendencies as well. Nobody can convince me that taking an OT in the first 3 rounds is a good idea. Would Diehl be better at OG? Maybe. Or maybe he'd have lost a little bit and would take a season or so to re-adjust (remember that Kiwi fellow?). Plus Diehl has improved in pass protection since he became the starter so who's to say he won't improve again next season? Not to mention he's perfectly fine at LT.


I personally believe that our first 3 or 4 picks should be spent on defense (unless of course there's some ridiculous fall and the clear cut BPA is someone on offense). Would finding a replacement for Plax be great? Hell yeah! Unfortunately, physical freaks of nature like Plax don't come around very often. I think some people forget that Plax was a drafted number 8 overall. Guys like DHB, Britt, and Barden look like they have great potential....but they aren't on Plax's level, at least not as prospects. And there's an EXTREMELY good chance that they won't produce very well in their first year. I'm not completely against grabbing one of the aforementioned WRs if one falls but I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment if they think a rookie is going to come in and play well enough to make us forget Plax.

Number 10
01-21-2009, 10:20 PM
I don't think I'll ever understand why people want us to draft an OT early. We have the best o-line in the league and none of them are ancient, injury prone, or FAs this offseason. Does Diehl get beat by elite speed rushers? Sure. But who doesn't? That's why those guys are ELITE!

People also seem to underestimate the importance of team chemistry, especially on an offensive line. Not only do they all know each others tendencies but they know the offense, Eli's audibles, O'Hara's audibles, and if BJ stays, then his tendencies as well. Nobody can convince me that taking an OT in the first 3 rounds is a good idea. Would Diehl be better at OG? Maybe. Or maybe he'd have lost a little bit and would take a season or so to re-adjust (remember that Kiwi fellow?). Plus Diehl has improved in pass protection since he became the starter so who's to say he won't improve again next season? Not to mention he's perfectly fine at LT.


I personally believe that our first 3 or 4 picks should be spent on defense (unless of course there's some ridiculous fall and the clear cut BPA is someone on offense). Would finding a replacement for Plax be great? Hell yeah! Unfortunately, physical freaks of nature like Plax don't come around very often. I think some people forget that Plax was a drafted number 8 overall. Guys like DHB, Britt, and Barden look like they have great potential....but they aren't on Plax's level, at least not as prospects. And there's an EXTREMELY good chance that they won't produce very well in their first year. I'm not completely against grabbing one of the aforementioned WRs if one falls but I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment if they think a rookie is going to come in and play well enough to make us forget Plax.

Your issue is common.

You are approaching the draft with tunnel vision where in reality it is 90% about the future. Diehl is a FA at the end of the 2009 season. There is a good chance he could demand top tier LT money and there is an even better chance teams will be lining up to give it to him. If his price is too great, where do we stand? Do we hope to fill the hole when it needs to be filled? No. Not at the LT position. You fill that need before it arises if the situation permits. In this case, the situation would entail a LT talent that drops to us in the draft. If one falls and he is the highest graded player on the board, you take him. The Giants are in a position that you want to be in...meaning we can take BPA at multiple positions and it will benefit us sooner or later.

The offensive line is not something you want to fool around with, you need a strong starting unit and you need a backup plan, and a backup plan to the backup plan. Kareem McKenzie's back is getting worse month by month. Diehl's best position is RT, no doubt. If, in 2010, McKenzie is unable to be relied upon we can shift Diehl over and insert a guy we draft here in 2009 and mold throughout the season. Just another example.

By saying we need to do this and need to do that with the first 3-4 picks, you are immediately handicapping the draft process before it even begins because of tunnel vision. You have to be open to all options, no questions asked. That is how you draft well. Plain and simple.

giantsfan
01-21-2009, 11:45 PM
Your issue is common.

You are approaching the draft with tunnel vision where in reality it is 90% about the future. Diehl is a FA at the end of the 2009 season. There is a good chance he could demand top tier LT money and there is an even better chance teams will be lining up to give it to him. If his price is too great, where do we stand? Do we hope to fill the hole when it needs to be filled? No. Not at the LT position. You fill that need before it arises if the situation permits. In this case, the situation would entail a LT talent that drops to us in the draft. If one falls and he is the highest graded player on the board, you take him. The Giants are in a position that you want to be in...meaning we can take BPA at multiple positions and it will benefit us sooner or later.

The offensive line is not something you want to fool around with, you need a strong starting unit and you need a backup plan, and a backup plan to the backup plan. Kareem McKenzie's back is getting worse month by month. Diehl's best position is RT, no doubt. If, in 2010, McKenzie is unable to be relied upon we can shift Diehl over and insert a guy we draft here in 2009 and mold throughout the season. Just another example.

By saying we need to do this and need to do that with the first 3-4 picks, you are immediately handicapping the draft process before it even begins because of tunnel vision. You have to be open to all options, no questions asked. That is how you draft well. Plain and simple.

I agree with this completely. Very few if any of our top picks will play a major part in this team's success next season, some will fill small roles but no one is going to be a big time player early for us, not even a LB like Sintim. So any draft pick we make has to make sense as a backup and for the teams future which is why I'd like to see us grab a LT prospect with a high ceiling, I would be happy with any of Britton, Beatty, Kropog or Loadholt somewhere on day one since all of those guy have some tools that you really like for a LT and they all have a lot of room to improve also.

Same with guys like DHB, Barden and really any WR prospect, those guys are all highly unlikely to make a significant early impact but in a few seasons a lot of those guys could become the impact WRs we think. Plax went so high because people thought his talent was so great and his production was at such a high level that he'd be able to make an early impact and still improve, with a lot of those guy the high level production isn't there or the level of competition isn't there for them to grade out like a Plaxico Burress although that's not to say that in two-three years they won't be able to fill his shoes.

NotoriousT
01-22-2009, 01:17 AM
I don't have tunnel vision, however, I obviously have a terrible sense of our player's contract situations because I didn't know Diehl's contract was over that soon. I thought we had him signed for longer and it felt like yesterday he was extended. If he's really an FA in 09 then forget what I said. Did he get extended last season or the season before? I must be going crazy here.

Also, for the record, I never said we "needed" to do anything. I was just giving my personal opinion on what strategy would benefit us the most in the foreseeable future.

Number 10
01-22-2009, 09:58 AM
I don't have tunnel vision, however, I obviously have a terrible sense of our player's contract situations because I didn't know Diehl's contract was over that soon. I thought we had him signed for longer and it felt like yesterday he was extended. If he's really an FA in 09 then forget what I said. Did he get extended last season or the season before? I must be going crazy here.

Also, for the record, I never said we "needed" to do anything. I was just giving my personal opinion on what strategy would benefit us the most in the foreseeable future.

He signed a 6 year extension last offseason but there is some sort of opt out in his contract if he was still playing LT. It is all speculation at this point. It doesn't change our approach to drafting an OT because McKenzie's future might be in doubt.

bigbluedefense
01-22-2009, 06:38 PM
I might be alone in this, but I still like Clay Matthews as a weakside backer in our system.

Ive said all along that his coverage skills are underrated, and he's showing that at the senior bowl. He has the motor and blitzing ability and speed that we need, good size (but not good enough for SAM), he'd be a good player for us.

bigbluedefense
01-22-2009, 06:46 PM
Im not a fan of Cushing. I just don't like him. He screams "looks like Tarzan plays like Jane" to me.

Some effort to push his stock up now isn't enough for me to change my mind about him. Where was this during the season?

giantsfan
01-22-2009, 07:36 PM
Im not a fan of Cushing. I just don't like him. He screams "looks like Tarzan plays like Jane" to me.

Some effort to push his stock up now isn't enough for me to change my mind about him. Where was this during the season?

I'm hoping that the senior bowl pushes Cushing ahead of Sintim on some boards because getting Sintim in the first a guy like Kropog, Loadholt or Beatty with the new orleans pick and then a guy like Ramses Barden to end day one would be incredible.

bigbluedefense
01-23-2009, 07:24 PM
Im taking William Moore off of my list. I thought he'd get his act together and drop weight, and show me the old William Moore. He didn't. So forget him.

Thoughts on Darry Beckwith? I haven't seen much of him.

OSUGiants17
01-23-2009, 07:27 PM
Sintim is our best possible pick, he could start at SAM from day 1.

bigbluedefense
01-23-2009, 07:33 PM
Sintim probably is gonna get taken before we pick. I don't see him sliding to us.

Also, it sounds like he's pretty stiff in coverage, which is giving me reservations about him. At the end of the day, its more important for our Backers to be sound than experimental stand up rushers. We'll get enough pass rush out of our dline with Osi/Tuck/Kiwi.

Sintim really is a luxury pick. He provides us with a guy who can be decent as a SAM, and also a 4th option on the line. But thats not our real need.

We need playmaking LBs who make plays...as LBs. Sintim won't be that guy. He'll make plays as a downhill pass rusher/run stopper. Not as a linebacker.

Thats why as much as I was underwhelmed by Rey Maulauga in the bowl game, after watching more of him, I want him at MIKE for us. He can blitz with the best of em, and he provides us the thumping sledgehammer presence we need at MIKE.

If we don't go with a MIKE, we need a high flying Backer who will make plays all over the field. I don't know if that guy is out there this year however.

Geo
01-23-2009, 08:21 PM
Im taking William Moore off of my list. I thought he'd get his act together and drop weight, and show me the old William Moore. He didn't. So forget him.

Thoughts on Darry Beckwith? I haven't seen much of him.
I never saw the big appeal of Moore, although admittedly didn't pay much attention to him as a junior. I tend to pay more attention to seniors, for the most part.

Beckwith is not a player. I'm surprised Scott has him ranked that high, as a 2n d or 3rd round player, because I likely wouldn't touch him in the first 5 rounds. He's not a factor on the football field, even if he looks good as a prospect.

I am interested in his former LSU teammate safety Curtis Taylor, although he's similar in that he's a better prospect than he's been player. But he could be a workout warrior, and maybe he's got room to improvement as only a 2-year starter (was behind Laron Landry).

Geo
01-23-2009, 08:28 PM
Also, it sounds like he's pretty stiff in coverage, which is giving me reservations about him. At the end of the day, its more important for our Backers to be sound than experimental stand up rushers. We'll get enough pass rush out of our dline with Osi/Tuck/Kiwi.
I don't know if this was exactly the case for him at Virginia, but if Sintim hardly played any coverage there, maybe it's not so much an inability as him needing to develop that part of his game. Mayock was saying as much during the Senior Bowl practices, and said he showed promise as a 4-3 SAM, so take that for what you think it's worth I suppose.

scottyboy
01-24-2009, 09:05 AM
I'm really leaning towards going WR/DT/OL round 1(or see BPA) and hope Reese goes after a fairly long term solution at OLB for us. Danbsy is probably too expensive, but guys like Boley and Hill seem like our type of signings.

I also like Mike Peterson, but he'd be another 1 year type of guy...

giantsfan
01-24-2009, 11:01 PM
Getting either Boley or Hill would be really nice. I really don't want us to have to go LB in on day one because Sintim is really the only SLB prospect I like, Clay Matthews doesn't impress me enough although he's getting up there, and we won't have a shot at curry so I'd rather see that need filled in FA.

bigbluedefense
01-26-2009, 09:02 AM
1. Kenny Britt WR Rutgers
2. Clay Matthews OLB USC
2. Kyle Moore DE USC

What say you of that day 1?

all 3 picks are probably "reaches"

Turtlepower
01-26-2009, 09:36 AM
1. Kenny Britt WR Rutgers
2. Clay Matthews OLB USC
2. Kyle Moore DE USC

What say you of that day 1?

all 3 picks are probably "reaches"

We could probably get Kyle Moore in round 3, where I will still consider him a reach there. Clay Mathews just seems like a college player who just won't be able to play on only intensity in the NFL. I'd much prefer this:

1. Kenny Britt, WR, Rutgers
2. Ron Brace, DT, Boston College
3. Andy Levitre, OG, Oregon State

bigbluedefense
01-26-2009, 10:34 AM
We could probably get Kyle Moore in round 3, where I will still consider him a reach there. Clay Mathews just seems like a college player who just won't be able to play on only intensity in the NFL. I'd much prefer this:

1. Kenny Britt, WR, Rutgers
2. Ron Brace, DT, Boston College
3. Andy Levitre, OG, Oregon State

I think Kyle Moore and Kenny Britt will jump on big boards after the combine. Just a hunch. And Moore impressed a lot of people at the Senior Bowl.

I still think Clay could be a gamer at WILL for us. SAM is questionable, but he shown me enough in coverage that I think with our attacking downhill scheme, the guy can really work well for us as an attacking WILL. He reminds me of a poor man's Lawrence Timmons.

Ron Brace is someone i need to see more film of. I heard conflicting reports. He looked good at the Senior Bowl game, but wasn't that impressive during the drills. And I question how much he benefitted from Raji at BC. I also heard he doesn't get much push, which is a no go in our scheme.

Again, I need to see him for myself before I have an opinion on him.

Giantsfan1080
01-26-2009, 11:40 AM
Britt's definitely going to rise after the combine. I'd be very happy with Britt and Matthews with our first 2 picks.

bigbluedefense
01-26-2009, 12:25 PM
Britt's definitely going to rise after the combine. I'd be very happy with Britt and Matthews with our first 2 picks.

even if Plax is back, I still want Britt. Eli loves big targets. Let's give him some. We'll need those big targets in December at home.

Rivers has Gates, Chambers and Jackson. 3 guys to play jumpball with. We should do the same considering Eli loves to throw it high to big guys.

With development from Boss, and a return of Plax and Britt, we'd have our own 3 man jumpball team.

hugegmenfan
01-26-2009, 01:35 PM
even if Plax is back, I still want Britt. Eli loves big targets. Let's give him some. We'll need those big targets in December at home.

Rivers has Gates, Chambers and Jackson. 3 guys to play jumpball with. We should do the same considering Eli loves to throw it high to big guys.

With development from Boss, and a return of Plax and Britt, we'd have our own 3 man jumpball team.

i like that idea very much

Turtlepower
01-26-2009, 01:39 PM
I know many of you Rutgers fans might hate it, but I feel that Hakeem Nicks would be much better than Britt. In fact, I am 90% sure than Nicks will end up being the best WR in this class when all is said and done. Nicks has good height, good speed, great athleticism, great hands and he was very productive in college.

Giantsfan1080
01-26-2009, 02:14 PM
I know many of you Rutgers fans might hate it, but I feel that Hakeem Nicks would be much better than Britt. In fact, I am 90% sure than Nicks will end up being the best WR in this class when all is said and done. Nicks has good height, good speed, great athleticism, great hands and he was very productive in college.

From what I've seen of Nicks he is a very good player. I've obviously have seen Britt play more though and am more comfortable knowing what he brings to the table. I wouldn't be dissapointed with Nicks but Britt make so much sense to me. I really think he's not going to even be available to us unless we trade up at the draft. I really think is combine might jump him into the the top 20.

Giantsfan1080
01-26-2009, 02:16 PM
even if Plax is back, I still want Britt. Eli loves big targets. Let's give him some. We'll need those big targets in December at home.

Rivers has Gates, Chambers and Jackson. 3 guys to play jumpball with. We should do the same considering Eli loves to throw it high to big guys.

With development from Boss, and a return of Plax and Britt, we'd have our own 3 man jumpball team.

It's a great idea. With Toomer possibly leaving we still do need a lot of guys at WR. I'm not 100% sold on Hixon yet so bringing in Britt or another young tall WR in the draft is going to help. Plax, Smith, Hixon, Britt gives us a pretty good 4 WR set with Manningham and Moss in the wings.

bigbluedefense
01-26-2009, 08:34 PM
i don't question that there are better WRs out there than Britt.

But what's important to remember is that Britt is the best available WR for US. We know what Eli likes. Britt fits the bill to a T. He's perfect. He might not be the best WR on the board when we pick, but he's the best for what we need, for what Eli needs and likes.

To me its a no brainer. Let's see teams roll so much coverage to Burress when Britt is on the other side.

And let's see teams blitz so much when you have Burress and Britt and Boss to body up smaller secondary players.

It makes perfect sense to me.

giantsfan
01-27-2009, 04:07 AM
BBD your mock wouldn't leave me disappointed but honestly I'd much prefer to see a draft along these lines:

1. Sintim
2a. Beatty
2b. Taylor
3. Barden

I'm still very high on Barden's potential despite his disappointing combine so I feel that in 2+ years when our WR will actually be ready to make an impact he'll be as good as Britt for us.

I think Sintim could really excel in our scheme.

My lone gripe with Beatty is he needs to bulk up, but even at his current weight he gets a good push in the run game and finishes his blocks.

And if Taylor can get back to the intensity he showed as a sophomore and junior he'll be a big part of our DT rotation and solidifying our run D into a strength like our pass D should be.

bigbluedefense
01-27-2009, 07:47 AM
BBD your mock wouldn't leave me disappointed but honestly I'd much prefer to see a draft along these lines:

1. Sintim
2a. Beatty
2b. Taylor
3. Barden

I'm still very high on Barden's potential despite his disappointing combine so I feel that in 2+ years when our WR will actually be ready to make an impact he'll be as good as Britt for us.

I think Sintim could really excel in our scheme.

My lone gripe with Beatty is he needs to bulk up, but even at his current weight he gets a good push in the run game and finishes his blocks.

And if Taylor can get back to the intensity he showed as a sophomore and junior he'll be a big part of our DT rotation and solidifying our run D into a strength like our pass D should be.

i wouldn't mind this mock at all. as long as we stay away from Cushing, im satisfied lol :)

Giantsfan1080
01-27-2009, 03:33 PM
I don't know why but this just popped in my head regarding Britt. Teel is very similar to Eli in that his accuracy is all over in games. He can go from throwing 10 perfect passes to missing Wr's totally which I feel Eli struggles with but not as bad as Teel. Teel throws a lot of balls high, like Eli, and Britt will be used to since he's seeing the same thing for 3 years. He knows how to go up and get the badly thrown balls where as some other Wr's may not be used to making the tough catch. Just another as to why I think Britt would be a perfect fit.

bigbluedefense
01-27-2009, 06:24 PM
I don't know why but this just popped in my head regarding Britt. Teel is very similar to Eli in that his accuracy is all over in games. He can go from throwing 10 perfect passes to missing Wr's totally which I feel Eli struggles with but not as bad as Teel. Teel throws a lot of balls high, like Eli, and Britt will be used to since he's seeing the same thing for 3 years. He knows how to go up and get the badly thrown balls where as some other Wr's may not be used to making the tough catch. Just another as to why I think Britt would be a perfect fit.

WE WANT BRITT!!

I would seriously "reach" for him with our 29th selection. Even though, I agree with you that his stock will rise a lot before draft day and it won't be a reach at all by then. Hopefully he doesn't go before we pick, which is my biggest concern.

OSUGiants17
01-27-2009, 07:22 PM
WE WANT BRITT!!


If we don't take Britt, DHB, or Sintim day 1 I will cry.

scottyboy
01-27-2009, 09:26 PM
see, i'm now shying away from drafting a LB'er with our 1st rounder. I'm a little more skeptical of Sintim now. Cushing has also fallen out of favor with me. We need talent more at WR than OLB as well. We've won with just average LB talent, but we need another WR. plain and simple. I think it'll also be cheaper and easier to upgrade at LB via FA as opposed to WR

LetsGoGiants!
01-27-2009, 09:51 PM
I know that Britt is the type of guy we want, he's tall, good hands, from what I heard. but i'm not sure he can be a #1 and that's what we need. I think Plax is done and we need a #1 now. I think we should trade up to get Crabtree, or trade to get a solid Vet.

scottyboy
01-27-2009, 09:55 PM
I know that Britt is the type of guy we want, he's tall, good hands, from what I heard. but i'm not sure he can be a #1 and that's what we need. I think Plax is done and we need a #1 now. I think we should trade up to get Crabtree, or trade to get a solid Vet.

no chance of trading for Crabtree. that's just not happening. a Vet IMO would be a band-aid at a position where we need surgery. A vet would also most likely be more expensive right now.

And I have no clue where people are getting this Britt can't be a #1 guy garbage from. I mean, he WAS RU's offense last year.

LetsGoGiants!
01-27-2009, 10:01 PM
no chance of trading for Crabtree. that's just not happening. a Vet IMO would be a band-aid at a position where we need surgery. A vet would also most likely be more expensive right now.

And I have no clue where people are getting this Britt can't be a #1 guy garbage from. I mean, he WAS RU's offense last year.

I can tell that you have seen alot more of him than I have, since in your sig its rutgers. But like you said the Giants definetley need some WR help and I agree they do. But I haven't heard much from Britt as I have from many other WRs. I'm just not sure if he would be the greatest pick but he is tall and similiar to Plax but just haven't heard alot about him. Just not sure he's the greatest pick is all.

scottyboy
01-27-2009, 10:04 PM
I can tell that you have seen alot more of him than I have, since in your sig its rutgers. But like you said the Giants definetley need some WR help and I agree they do. But I haven't heard much from Britt as I have from many other WRs. I'm just not sure if he would be the greatest pick but he is tall and similiar to Plax but just haven't heard alot about him. Just not sure he's the greatest pick is all.

He hasn't gotten hype at all due to his "lack of production" this season. It's technically a down year from last year I guess. Crabtree and Harvin will be in the media like crazy. That's a given. Rutgers was just ok this year, and he didn't get much attention. Hicks is climbing boards and grabbing what I deem some very unnecessary love. He's good, but I know Britt is better. He is just like Plax in size and strength, which is a big plus. Even if Plax comes back, having 2 huge guys is still a plus.

LetsGoGiants!
01-27-2009, 10:14 PM
He hasn't gotten hype at all due to his "lack of production" this season. It's technically a down year from last year I guess. Crabtree and Harvin will be in the media like crazy. That's a given. Rutgers was just ok this year, and he didn't get much attention. Hicks is climbing boards and grabbing what I deem some very unnecessary love. He's good, but I know Britt is better. He is just like Plax in size and strength, which is a big plus. Even if Plax comes back, having 2 huge guys is still a plus.

That's true, it would be a great combo having to huge WRs on each side. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying he's crap cause i've seen film and he's got talent. I'm just not entirely sure on what he can produce in the big time. That's all.

scottyboy
01-27-2009, 10:18 PM
That's true, it would be a great combo having to huge WRs on each side. Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying he's crap cause i've seen film and he's got talent. I'm just not entirely sure on what he can produce in the big time. That's all.

understandable. But I really feel he can. Just seeing him bail out Teel throw after throw and at times literally carry our team(and the defenses) on his back. There were drives that we'd hand it off to Britt, throw deep to him, intermediate, short and screens just to get him the ball. There were 8 play drives where he'd have 5-6 touches with the others being RB runs or ****** throws by Teel with the occasional good look to Underwood.

LetsGoGiants!
01-27-2009, 10:33 PM
understandable. But I really feel he can. Just seeing him bail out Teel throw after throw and at times literally carry our team(and the defenses) on his back. There were drives that we'd hand it off to Britt, throw deep to him, intermediate, short and screens just to get him the ball. There were 8 play drives where he'd have 5-6 touches with the others being RB runs or ****** throws by Teel with the occasional good look to Underwood.

Is he well at running the ball, like if they dumped it off on a screen or something. If he is that would be great, with the ward/jacobs problem we could use a good player that can run to.