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D-Unit
03-11-2009, 03:35 PM
Kevin Boss is so good. TE isn't really a big need for the Giants
I'll tell you this... if you had a real weapon at TE and not just a nice serviceable guy who's underrated, you wouldn't have missed Plax as much.

I'm just happy that I'm 100% sure you guys won't draft Brandon Pettigrew. Dallas doesn't need a TE and I definitely DON'T want to see him in the NFC East. ...though I think the Eagles have a good chance at ruining that.

LTgiants
03-11-2009, 04:06 PM
I'll tell you this... if you had a real weapon at TE and not just a nice serviceable guy who's underrated, you wouldn't have missed Plax as much.

I'm just happy that I'm 100% sure you guys won't draft Brandon Pettigrew. Dallas doesn't need a TE and I definitely DON'T want to see him in the NFC East. ...though I think the Eagles have a good chance at ruining that.

I am not against drafting a TE since I think we can draft pretty much go BPA I am just saying Kevin Boss is a good young TE who is only getting better. I would say he is more then a nice serviceable guy. The Giants have 3 young TE's on the roster already so drafting 1 in the 1st day is not really a spot you really need to make sure you get a TE when we can use a WR more and depth at the Offensive Line more then drafting a another TE in the 1st/2nd round.

touchdownmaker
03-11-2009, 04:41 PM
I'll tell you this... if you had a real weapon at TE and not just a nice serviceable guy who's underrated, you wouldn't have missed Plax as much.

Yeah it would be cool to have a weapon at tight end, but the problem is that our offensive coordinator does not like to use the tight end much. He did not when Shockey was here, so why would he change for Pettigrew. We are fine at TE right now. Boss comes up when he they finally do pass him the ball and he is developing into a solid blocker.

The G-men will either look at WR or LB in the first round. I doubt that they will try to get a TE is the early rounds.

D-Unit
03-11-2009, 05:17 PM
I'll tell you this... if you had a real weapon at TE and not just a nice serviceable guy who's underrated, you wouldn't have missed Plax as much.

Yeah it would be cool to have a weapon at tight end, but the problem is that our offensive coordinator does not like to use the tight end much. He did not when Shockey was here, so why would he change for Pettigrew. We are fine at TE right now. Boss comes up when he they finally do pass him the ball and he is developing into a solid blocker.

The G-men will either look at WR or LB in the first round. I doubt that they will try to get a TE is the early rounds.
I really don't buy into those types of opinions that say our OC doesn't like to use an x position. Any OC that limits their offense by removing a critical position like that should not be coaching in the NFL. These guys are the best of the best. They are the schemers, the innovators, they mold the way the game continues to change on the cutting edge of it all.

Your opinions would completely change if you had a healthy Antonio Gates. When you have a big weapon like that you change your scheme to make him a factor. As good as you think Kevin Boss is, fact of the matter is that the guy has limitations that will prevent him from ever being one of the greats in the game.

Back to my point... if you did have a great one, you'd miss Plax less.

That said, I might agree.... that it won't be addressed in the first 2 rounds. That's why I thought Number 10's mock was interesting.

Number 10
03-11-2009, 06:20 PM
Alright I'll take this one post at a time. First I am going to address the whole WR idea.

I'll start off by saying that a lot will have to occur on draft for me to think a WR will be our selection at #29. Going with the idea that we will not trade from that spot whether it be up, down, or into the future, I just don't see a guy at that spot worth taking unless a bunch of other targets are unexpectedly taken before 29.

Nicks is really the only one outside of Crabtree I would gamble on because of his hands, route running ability, and quickness. Forget 40 times when taking a look at him. He gets the separtion underneath that is vital to the scheme we are running. He can get to the second-third level just as fast as anyone on our team and he is tough in traffic, has the size and strength.

Outside of him, there just isn't a guy that I see capable of turning into a #1 target. If we draft a WR that early, it has to be a guy we are confident can evolve into a #1. We have too many complimentary WRs on this team, adding another won't help us in the way using #29 on someone else could. Britt and Robiskie are too slow off the line and in the intermediate areas for my liking and while they do have size, I don't see them even getting to the Toomer level. Thus I don't want that with #29 overall. Heyward-Bey is such a wildcard and bvecause of that, there isn't a chance I spend a 1st rounder on him. I have seen enough tape on him that leads me to the notion he'll be a Tim Carter, perhaps a little bit better. People fall in love with the sexy 40 times way too much, we shouldn't be one of them. It does not and will not mask the issues he has running routes, getting off a jam, or catching the ball over the middle. A big no to him with any of our first 3 picks.

Number 10
03-11-2009, 06:29 PM
On to Lauranaitis-

If you told me in October he was gonna be our 1st round pick, I would have flipped out. But I had a few games sent my way over the past few weeks and I think he would be a great fit here. I compare him to what we had in Antonio Pierce back in 2005 when he had the range athletic ability that seems to be slipping as of right now. There are legit concerns about Lauranaitis' ability to shed blocks that come straight at him but we're not asking him to come in and start right away. In addition to that, watch Pierce shed blocks head on....he can't do it. As a matter of fact, he is 10x worse than Blackburn when comparing the two side by side. But when he has the quicks, his intitial read off the snap gives him angles and leverage advantages that mask the issue. Lauranaitis, love him or hate him, is one of the most instinctive LBs you will ever scout. When I grade MLBs reading ability, rarely will I ever see a LB that can consistently take his first 2 steps in the right direction without hesitation. Usually there is at least a second hesitation, then some will take a false step. Lauranaitis has no hesitation all the time and his first steps get him going.

On top of that, I took time to watch what was going on in front of him. He played behind one of the worst D-Lines among the MLBs I scouted for this class. He gets almost no double team help in front of him and the amount of untouched blockers heading his way was enough to make me feel bad for the kid. You think that is going to be an issue here in NY where we evidently value the D-Line more than any group on the team? Give him something to work with up front, let him learn for a year or two behind Pierce, get him another 10 pounds of bulk and we have the LB presence in the middle we have wanted for years. Now if Boley works out...we're talking about a duo that will be a downright scary force.

Number 10
03-11-2009, 06:38 PM
The whole tight end situation-

I agree and disagree with D-Unit. Boss is not, nor will he be a top notch TE. However, our offense does not feature the TE very much other than absorbing attention down the middle to keep things open on the outside. Now, that could easily change with new talent or a loss of talent (as we saw when Plax was gone) but people are very soon to forget Boss just finished his second year removed from a D-II program in which he was a 235 pound bi-athlete. The kid has put on nearly 40 pounds of muscle in almost three years (part of me wonders if it was too rapid because he has slowed considerably). His development was viewed as a 4-5 year project but the Shockey debacle forced the Giants into accelerating it. He is fully capable of being a quality starter in this league but where I disagree with some Giants fans is that he is not a guy you form long term plans around.

Selecting Cook is in no way a move to get Boss out of the lineup. It is a move to provide insurance and to add a weapon that could come up with shortcomings elsewhere in the passing game. His athleticism alone will get plenty of attention from opposing defenses and create the oh-so-valuable matchup problems. He can be used in space a la Dustin Keller, and he can shake things up in the box. Boss is the TE of this team and nobody in this class will take it from him anytime soon, but the Giants aren't in a spot where holes need to be filled anymore. They need depth, competition, and new toys to play with. Cook is a new toy that fits in perfectly with a run heavy, careful passing attack that is being implemented.

If and when we get Plaxico back...you have him, Smith, Hixon, Boss, Cook, Manningham to work with...that gives us a ton of variety that suits the scheme and Eli's throwing ability very well.

scottyboy
03-11-2009, 06:44 PM
my mock has us grabbing:

Britt
Cook
and IIRC Tony Kropog. I'll have to double check, I know it was an OT though. I had a big mental debate on that one haha

D-Unit
03-11-2009, 07:01 PM
The whole tight end situation-

I agree and disagree with D-Unit. Boss is not, nor will he be a top notch TE. However, our offense does not feature the TE very much other than absorbing attention down the middle to keep things open on the outside. Now, that could easily change with new talent or a loss of talent (as we saw when Plax was gone) but people are very soon to forget Boss just finished his second year removed from a D-II program in which he was a 235 pound bi-athlete. The kid has put on nearly 40 pounds of muscle in almost three years (part of me wonders if it was too rapid because he has slowed considerably). His development was viewed as a 4-5 year project but the Shockey debacle forced the Giants into accelerating it. He is fully capable of being a quality starter in this league but where I disagree with some Giants fans is that he is not a guy you form long term plans around.

Selecting Cook is in no way a move to get Boss out of the lineup. It is a move to provide insurance and to add a weapon that could come up with shortcomings elsewhere in the passing game. His athleticism alone will get plenty of attention from opposing defenses and create the oh-so-valuable matchup problems. He can be used in space a la Dustin Keller, and he can shake things up in the box. Boss is the TE of this team and nobody in this class will take it from him anytime soon, but the Giants aren't in a spot where holes need to be filled anymore. They need depth, competition, and new toys to play with. Cook is a new toy that fits in perfectly with a run heavy, careful passing attack that is being implemented.

If and when we get Plaxico back...you have him, Smith, Hixon, Boss, Cook, Manningham to work with...that gives us a ton of variety that suits the scheme and Eli's throwing ability very well.
That helps me to see the picture clearer. I can see how that would work. My thing was to get a better weapon at TE. Your thing is to get another weapon at TE. That works too. Either way, your allowing yourself to make the loss of Plax less critical. I think your idea is great!

I guess that's kind of like what Dallas and Washington did last year. Dallas took Martellus Bennett in Round 2 even though they had Witten. Washington took Fred Davis in Round 2 even though they had Cooley. We'll see if the Giants FO agrees with you, 10... but I like where you're going with that part of your mock.

Number 10
03-11-2009, 07:15 PM
Oh and on Loadholt-

He was my guy last year and I expected big things from him this season. I'm the first to say he has not panned out as I thought he would, but he is still a top notch prospect in my eyes. The guy is 6'8" with long arms, he is very strong, and he is a fluid mover in pass protection. I'd love to draft him and put him on the blind side in 2010 and move Diehl over to RT because McKenzie's back is or is going to be an issue sooner or later and he is making a good amount of money. I think he'll be better than McNeill, better than Flozell Adams. I don't want to say Ogden but the two have very similar styles.

D-Unit
03-11-2009, 07:26 PM
Oh and on Loadholt-

He was my guy last year and I expected big things from him this season. I'm the first to say he has not panned out as I thought he would, but he is still a top notch prospect in my eyes. The guy is 6'8" with long arms, he is very strong, and he is a fluid mover in pass protection. I'd love to draft him and put him on the blind side in 2010 and move Diehl over to RT because McKenzie's back is or is going to be an issue sooner or later and he is making a good amount of money. I think he'll be better than McNeill, better than Flozell Adams. I don't want to say Ogden but the two have very similar styles.
Then you might be pleased to know that the Cowboys met with him extensively. :)

Number 10
03-11-2009, 07:29 PM
Then you might be pleased to know that the Cowboys met with him extensively. :)

Doesn't surprise me.

But I'll be surprised if he drops out of the top 45, I don't care what anyone says. Guys that are 6'8" with long arms and move well within the position are in high demand. Especially this year and especially after a few years of rookie LT dominance.

Crickett
03-11-2009, 07:36 PM
That helps me to see the picture clearer. I can see how that would work. My thing was to get a better weapon at TE. Your thing is to get another weapon at TE. That works too. Either way, your allowing yourself to make the loss of Plax less critical. I think your idea is great!

I guess that's kind of like what Dallas and Washington did last year. Dallas took Martellus Bennett in Round 2 even though they had Witten. Washington took Fred Davis in Round 2 even though they had Cooley.

And how did that turn out for them?

Season Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD
2008 Washington Redskins 11 2 3 27 9.0 15 0
2008 Dallas Cowboys 16 7 20 283 14.2 37 4

Is this really going to make up for the loss of
2007 New York Giants 16 16 70 1,025 14.6 60T 12

:confused:

D-Unit
03-11-2009, 08:15 PM
And how did that turn out for them?

Season Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lng TD
2008 Washington Redskins 11 2 3 27 9.0 15 0
2008 Dallas Cowboys 16 7 20 283 14.2 37 4

Is this really going to make up for the loss of
2007 New York Giants 16 16 70 1,025 14.6 60T 12

:confused:
Oh no... not one of those stat comparison things again, is this? There are so many different variables, it makes for a poor comparison.

In reality, I doubt you'll ever replace Plax completely. But had you have had a big reliable athletic target for Eli, the loss of Plax wouldn't have hurt as bad. That's still what I've been getting at all along anyways.

It's common sense to me... not really preaching hidden doctrine here... Just saying, Boss has limitations and you could us a better/another receiving weapon at TE.

...fyi, you will see a pretty damn good player out of Martellus Bennett next year... if the flashes haven't given you a hint yet...

Crickett
03-11-2009, 10:54 PM
Oh no... not one of those stat comparison things again, is this? There are so many different variables, it makes for a poor comparison.

In reality, I doubt you'll ever replace Plax completely. But had you have had a big reliable athletic target for Eli, the loss of Plax wouldn't have hurt as bad. That's still what I've been getting at all along anyways.

It's common sense to me... not really preaching hidden doctrine here... Just saying, Boss has limitations and you could us a better/another receiving weapon at TE.

...fyi, you will see a pretty damn good player out of Martellus Bennett next year... if the flashes haven't given you a hint yet...


I will see a pretty damn good player out of Martellus Bennett next year.... on the bench. Because he's the Cowboys #2 tight end behind one of the best in the league: Jason Witten. Which means he will primarily be blocking. Or on the bench. How many #2 TE's have ever really contributed what you'd expect out of a first or second round TE? Ever?

Number 10
03-11-2009, 11:16 PM
I will see a pretty damn good player out of Martellus Bennett next year.... on the bench. Because he's the Cowboys #2 tight end behind one of the best in the league: Jason Witten. Which means he will primarily be blocking. Or on the bench. How many #2 TE's have ever really contributed what you'd expect out of a first or second round TE? Ever?

Having multiple TE threats can be huge for an offense which is why you can see a lot of teams across the league looking for a balanced 2 or 3 TE group. Ideally here...Boss continues to improve his run blocking and gives us a starter that is constantly starting with his hand in the ground. Then you put a Cook on to the field who can also put his hand in the ground or be put out in space which can increase the matchup problem he poses for defenders. Or it can open up the outside ground game...etc.

Cook would be a solid choice with either of our 2nd rounders.

Crickett
03-11-2009, 11:28 PM
Having multiple TE threats can be huge for an offense which is why you can see a lot of teams across the league looking for a balanced 2 or 3 TE group.

In theory its a great idea, but in theory Vernon Davis should be an Antonio Gates clone. How many teams have successfully used a balanced 2 or 3 TE group? And how many #2 tight ends drafted in the first or second round really work out for the team drafting them?

New England certainly tried this idea

2006 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
3 86 David Thomas TE Texas


2004 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 32 Benjamin Watson TE Georgia


2002 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 21 Daniel Graham TE Colorado

2001 - New England Patriots
Rd Sel # Player Position School
4 119 Jabari Holloway TE Notre Dame

but it didn't really work.

D-Unit
03-11-2009, 11:28 PM
I will see a pretty damn good player out of Martellus Bennett next year.... on the bench. Because he's the Cowboys #2 tight end behind one of the best in the league: Jason Witten. Which means he will primarily be blocking. Or on the bench. How many #2 TE's have ever really contributed what you'd expect out of a first or second round TE? Ever?
Just because apparently you think your OC doesn't like to use TEs... There are systems in which you do line up 2 TEs on the field at the same time. Ever heard of 2 TE sets? :) I think Giants fans should know by now that Dallas has those types of packages in their playbook. Anyways, this is not going in the direction that this thread is intended for, so I'll bow out.

For the record, I think Boss is definitely a keeper.

touchdownmaker
03-12-2009, 10:12 AM
I see your point about the need for a field stretchingTE to compliment Boss. Don't you think that is something that they could address in next year's draft? I see it that there are four positions that carry heavier concerns which are WR, Sam, S and OL.

In regards to the TE in Gilbride's system, you need to look no further than Shockey's complaints. He wanted to be in a system that utilized his stregnths which is why he managed to get the Reese to ship him off to teh Saints. Now I am not saying Shockey was flawless for us either, as evidenced by the drops suffered in 2007.

There is one game in 2007 that under scores the TE's role in Gilbride's offense. Oddly enough, this happened when the game plan was tailored around Shockey. In the Giants home game against the Cowboys he was abusing Roy Williams, and Shockey came close to 100yrds receiving. The Giants still lost the game but it showed that they could involve Shockey if the coordinator wanted to tailor to his players. That was the last time Shockey dominated a game. After that game I thought to myself, hell Shockey still has it, why aren't they giving him the ball more?

bigbluedefense
03-12-2009, 07:40 PM
My thing with TE is, we just wouldn't use him all that much. Our system is not designed for it.

If we can nab a guy who would give us great return for minimal investment, im all for it, but why invest so highly in a position that's primarily a run blocking position for us?

I love TEs as much as anyone else, but as long as Coughlin is in charge, we won't use the TE position in the pass game as nothing more than a decoy or checkdown. We're good at TE for what we do with them.

I think everyone here is underrating Boss too. The guy was in his 2nd year, still developing when everyone thought he was a project coming into the league. He's already turned into a great run blocker, and he can be prolific as a pass catcher if we let him.

He's not Shockey. He's not going to stretch the field as a true speedster guy. But I compare his game favorably to a poor man's Jason Witten. Witten isnt the fastest guy, but he has sure hands, and incredible route running. And he knows how to use his size.

Boss has all of those characteristics, and is still learning. Remember, Witten took a good 3-4 years before he became the beast he is today. Boss is already a good player, who can be great with further development.

And to add to my Witten analogy, Boss spends his offseasons studying tape of Witten and how he runs routes. He wants to model his game after Witten.

Im not saying he's Witten, Im just saying he could be in a similar mold game wise.

bigbluedefense
03-12-2009, 07:43 PM
As for Laurinitis, I just don't like the guy all that much. I think he's become underrated at this point, but he's just not what we need at MIKE.

My biggest problem with Pierce is the fact that he can't fight through traffic in the phonebooth and stop the run. We need that kind of sledgehammer in the middle who can fight olinemen, disengage, and wrap up. Basically, a 3-4 insidebacker thumper kind of guy.

Laurenitis is not that guy. I think I almost rather have Jasper Brinkley.

We don't have the type of DTs up front that will keep our LBs clean. Theyre penetrators who need a sledgehammer behind them to clean up their mess. Laurinitis won't be that guy.

D-Unit
03-12-2009, 07:59 PM
As for Laurinitis, I just don't like the guy all that much. I think he's become underrated at this point, but he's just not what we need at MIKE.

My biggest problem with Pierce is the fact that he can't fight through traffic in the phonebooth and stop the run. We need that kind of sledgehammer in the middle who can fight olinemen, disengage, and wrap up. Basically, a 3-4 insidebacker thumper kind of guy.

Laurenitis is not that guy. I think I almost rather have Jasper Brinkley.

We don't have the type of DTs up front that will keep our LBs clean. Theyre penetrators who need a sledgehammer behind them to clean up their mess. Laurinitis won't be that guy.
And a guy who can sift through trash like a starving bum looking for food is Frantz Joseph... an unrelenting son of *****.

Jason Williams is also a guy to research. thule showed me the light on him.

bigbluedefense
03-12-2009, 08:01 PM
And a guy who can sift through trash like a starving bum looking for food is Frantz Joseph... an unrelenting son of *****.

Jason Williams is also a guy to research. thule showed me the light on him.

You know Im a Frantz Joseph fan :)

You have any links for Jason Williams?

D-Unit
03-12-2009, 08:09 PM
You know Im a Frantz Joseph fan :)

You have any links for Jason Williams?
thule is putting something together. I'll link you later.

Number 10
03-12-2009, 08:56 PM
Joseph is nice, but he doesn't have range, doesn't read plays well either.

bigbluedefense
03-13-2009, 07:40 PM
Joseph is a poor man's Rey Mauluga, whom I also think would be a great fit for the Giants.

To clarify, Im not as down on Laurenitis as everyone else is. From my own scouting of him, I think he doesn't get nearly enough credit for being as physical as he is. I don't get where this "softness" came from, because he'll get dirty.

I just don't think he's a good fit for us, especially at MIKE. He's not what we look for. If we were to draft him, prior to signing Boley I wouldve swore we'd draft him as a WILL. He'd be a decent WILL in our system, but not a MIKE.

I just don't see it at MIKE.

We need a physical, intimidating presence in the LB core. We don't have that now, even with Boley, and we wouldn't have that with Laurenitis.

bigbluedefense
03-13-2009, 07:44 PM
Whats everyone's thoughts on Michael Johnson if he slips to our 1st 2nd round pick, assuming we already picked up our WR in the 1st?

Do we gamble on what could be an amazing talent?

If anyone can make him realize his potential, it would be Mike Wauffle and the company of our dline.

I don't think Id want him though, although I could see why we'd ever make that kind of pick.

bigbluedefense
03-16-2009, 11:46 AM
The Giants worked out my boy Hakeem Nicks. Me likes.


Nicks or Britt. Eye on the prize Reese. Eye on the prize.

BaLLiN
03-17-2009, 05:02 PM
do you think if crabtree somehow made it to the teens the giants would try to get him?

Mr. Hero
03-17-2009, 05:36 PM
do you think if crabtree somehow made it to the teens the giants would try to get him?

We like Nicks a lot and Nicks is a poor man's crabs so i don't see why not.

gpngc
03-17-2009, 05:52 PM
The Giants worked out my boy Hakeem Nicks. Me likes.


Nicks or Britt. Eye on the prize Reese. Eye on the prize.

I think you'll have to leapfrog Chicago to get Nicks honestly. And I think 16, 15, and 14 would all look into moving down.

BaLLiN
03-17-2009, 06:43 PM
I think you'll have to leapfrog Chicago to get Nicks honestly. And I think 16, 15, and 14 would all look into moving down.

i think Chicago's problem is more reliant on their QB than their WRs, their OL is old so a quicker release QB and a good running game like they have would work well.

But BeerBaron can have his say, and he thinks nicks, i dont disagree that Hester and Nicks would be a great combination but i dont think that those two smaller recievers will be able to make it work with a horrible and inaccurate QB. Hester needs someone who can throw the long ball, thats for sure

Giantsfan1080
03-17-2009, 08:02 PM
Apparently Nicks was really out of shape at his Pro Day today. Not a good sign.

scottyboy
03-17-2009, 08:03 PM
Apparently Nicks was really out of shape at his Pro Day today. Not a good sign.

mhm, I see someone was on BBI! haha

yea, that's not good. You know Kenny Britt's in shape...I'm not saying....I'm just saying...

Giantsfan1080
03-17-2009, 08:07 PM
mhm, I see someone was on BBI! haha

yea, that's not good. You know Kenny Britt's in shape...I'm not saying....I'm just saying...

Haha I'm sure everyone here also goes to BBI. Just thought that was a nice tidbit of info even though I do like Nicks also.

bigbluedefense
03-19-2009, 11:58 AM
I wouldn't read too deeply into his Pro Day. In fact, Im hoping teams do in fact sour on him so he can fall to us. We need Chicago and the Jets to pass on Nicks or Britt.

I was thinking, if Oakland is crazy enough to pass on Crabtree, what would it take for us to trade to the #9 pick and get him?

If Crabtree is available in some way/shape/form, I wouldn't mind at all if the Giants pull an Eli and give up the farm for him. Its not like we really need all our draft picks. We can give up the farm for him, and still have picks on day 2 to play with to get depth players on our roster.

bigbluedefense
03-19-2009, 02:32 PM
I really like this Paul Kruger kid. He reminds me of KVB.


I think Cornellius Ingram wouldn't be a bad idea either. I love his potential.

Mr. Hero
03-19-2009, 02:38 PM
I really like this Paul Kruger kid. He reminds me of KVB.


I think Cornellius Ingram wouldn't be a bad idea either. I love his potential.

I do like Kruger, but I don't see why people think he's going to be an OLB in the NFL, after Ayers he's probably the purest 4-3 DE in this draft.

Speaking of DEs if Maybin somehow slides to our pick and Britt, Nicks, Harvin, DHB and Beatty are all gone anyone think we grab him to convert to SLB and be our fourth DE?

bigbluedefense
03-19-2009, 02:48 PM
Yeah I don't see Kruger as a 3-4 OLB. Everyone these days wants to take any DE who weights 255-265 and tag them as OLBs. I don't get it.


I honestly don't want any part of Aaron Maybin. I think he's going to be a bust.

BaLLiN
03-19-2009, 08:59 PM
the only way is to either give up our 1st, 2nd, and other 2nd, to get up to 9. i dont really want to do that, so if we trade up and only give our 1st, 1st 2nd, and 3rd to get to twelve.

I think the most logical thing to do in trading up is to trade our future 1st rounder with our 1st and probably a third, we're going to be a winning team, and the picks later in the first round arent as polished as crabtree. This way Oakland trades back and trades back up to get DHB who fits their picking style.

1.(*trade future first and 3rd) Michael Crabtree
---Obviously starting
2a. Duke Robinson
---will probably take over either at LG or RT midseason
2b.(use 4th to trade up)LeSean McCoy
---learn behind BJ, Bradshaw, and Ware solidify the backfield and become the wind (needs to get better holding the ball)
4(comp pick) Courtney Greene
---probably will be 3rd backup at safety but in a few years could be great run stuffer but for the season a good special teamer
5a. AQ Shipley
good special teamer puts forth alot of effort
5b. (trade up with 7th)Mohamed Massoquoi
probably doesnt do much in his first year, but will gain muscle and strength could be a solid tall possession receiver
6. Kevin Huber
great leg strength and pretty decent accuracy, could learn behind feagles

Mr. Hero
03-19-2009, 11:38 PM
Duke Robinson can't play RT, he just doesn't have the feet for it, he'll be a mauler LG but stick him in space at OT and he'll fail.

Why no Maybin love? He's raw as all hell but he works hard and has great upside with a disgustingly quick first step. I wouldn't take him in the first unless there was no other value and he was far and away the BPA, but with the NO pick I think he becomes a good pick.

D-Unit
03-20-2009, 02:50 PM
The Giants worked out my boy Hakeem Nicks. Me likes.


Nicks or Britt. Eye on the prize Reese. Eye on the prize.
You guys can have Hakeem Nicks as long as Dallas lands Brandon Tate. Both bring something a little different to the table, but I have to say I am probably Brandon Tate's biggest fan on this site. :p

Nicks is slightly overrated. Tate is very underrated.

Giantsfan1080
03-20-2009, 02:51 PM
You guys can have Hakeem Nicks as long as Dallas lands Brandon Tate. Both bring something a little different to the table, but I have to say I am probably Brandon Tate's biggest fan on this site. :p

Nicks is slightly overrated. Tate is very underrated.

Only because Tate is coming off that injury. If he didn't get hurt he would be mentioned with all these other Wr's.

Mr. Hero
03-20-2009, 03:45 PM
Yay or Nay on my the draft in my sig? I'm assuming that the bears love Nicks enough to take him before us.

BaLLiN
03-21-2009, 08:23 AM
Duke Robinson can't play RT, he just doesn't have the feet for it, he'll be a mauler LG but stick him in space at OT and he'll fail.

Why no Maybin love? He's raw as all hell but he works hard and has great upside with a disgustingly quick first step. I wouldn't take him in the first unless there was no other value and he was far and away the BPA, but with the NO pick I think he becomes a good pick.

McKenzie is less of an althlete than Robinson, Robinson should be able to play RT

Malaka
03-21-2009, 11:04 AM
Ok question guys... if we had the opportunity at 29. to draft either Hakeem Nicks or Kenny Britt who would we choose, and I don't mean who would you choose who do you think Jerry Reese would choose? This has been bugging me for awhile, it is very possible that both are available, and it is very both are not, but who would we take if both were there?

scottyboy
03-21-2009, 12:18 PM
Ok question guys... if we had the opportunity at 29. to draft either Hakeem Nicks or Kenny Britt who would we choose, and I don't mean who would you choose who do you think Jerry Reese would choose? This has been bugging me for awhile, it is very possible that both are available, and it is very both are not, but who would we take if both were there?

obviously Britt, considering I'm a homer BUT here's my actual logic behind why I'd take Britt:

-Britt's a bigger playmaker and downfield threat. They're both no Andre Johnson, but I believe Britt is a bigger deep threat, I really do.

-Britt is bigger. His height and leaping ability make him an excellent match for Eli. Plus, Eli tends to throw high when he misses, and Mike Teel threw high even when he freaking hit his target. It's agood match, and Britt is used to going up for jump balls

-Britt fits the bill as a "Giant". He's tough, physical and makes plays. He'd be beloved here as a Giant, fitting the role as a hometown kid who performs very well on the field.

-His blocking. Whether it be a run block, or blocking downfield, he LOVES to block and get dirty.

-He's played against better competition and on bigger stages. Winning bowl games, and playing in the NJ(and i guess NY media too) media, and handling himself very well in big, primetime games.

-He's got a gap. Remember the last Giant with a gap? yea, exactly

-His problems are all technique things such as getting seperation and his hands. And honestly, I think it's been proven very well that if there's a staff that can fix problems and get the most out of players, it's the Giants(and pats too, but you get the point).

Kase1
03-21-2009, 12:21 PM
Either would be great choices in the draft, but I htnk that Britt is more of a player that fits the Giants mold. Not to knock on Nicks, but Britt is more of a physical blue-collar force that is synonimous with the Giants name

Malaka
03-21-2009, 12:39 PM
I was leaning toward Britt too, but the fact that some people see Nicks go as high as 18 to the Bears made me kinda think Nicks > Britt... which is why I asked this question.

scottyboy
03-21-2009, 12:41 PM
I was leaning toward Britt too, but the fact that some people see Nicks go as high as 18 to the Bears made me kinda think Nicks > Britt... which is why I asked this question.

dont listen to internet hype. I personally think Nicks fits the Bears perfectly. He'd be a great fit there and I have him going there in my mock. BUT, I also believe he's over-rated and not as good as Britt. That's just me though.

BaLLiN
03-21-2009, 02:36 PM
I like both for two different reasons.

Nicks is definitely more ready for the NFL, i dont care about the competition arguement but he has the best hands, he is tough and gets YAC and is clutch as hell, id like to compare him to Dwayne Bowe. He doesnt have the height, and i realize we need height but id put performance before physical attributes.

Britt is tall, built, dominated Darius Butler with ease two years in a row, he doesnt seem very quick at all, not really fast, he's like a Marques Colston IMO but would need a year or two to develop into that.

with the recent success (sarcasm) our WR coaches have had i totally disagree with the coaching thing, it took sinorice moss 3 years? to reach probably his full potential, and even then we cant use him right. Mannigham i have hope for as a #2 type guy who gets good seperation and is a deep threat (amani in his early days)

I do not however want to see Hixon starting because he is probably best used on ST or later in the game as a burner who works on tired DBs.

BaLLiN
03-21-2009, 02:50 PM
i want to see dez bryant in a giants uniform in a few years. but here's my giants mock of now.

If the giants are feeling anything like me right now i feel like no reciever in this draft is that great. I personally dont want to spend a first on one but we have to in order to fill a major need.

scottyboy
03-21-2009, 04:00 PM
I like both for two different reasons.

Nicks is definitely more ready for the NFL, i dont care about the competition arguement but he has the best hands, he is tough and gets YAC and is clutch as hell, id like to compare him to Dwayne Bowe. He doesnt have the height, and i realize we need height but id put performance before physical attributes.

Britt is tall, built, dominated Darius Butler with ease two years in a row, he doesnt seem very quick at all, not really fast, he's like a Marques Colston IMO but would need a year or two to develop into that.

with the recent success (sarcasm) our WR coaches have had i totally disagree with the coaching thing, it took sinorice moss 3 years? to reach probably his full potential, and even then we cant use him right. Mannigham i have hope for as a #2 type guy who gets good seperation and is a deep threat (amani in his early days)

I do not however want to see Hixon starting because he is probably best used on ST or later in the game as a burner who works on tired DBs.

you're totally wrong on our coaching. Smith came in right away and was a big success. Moss is too small and was hurt early in his career. That's playcalling that we can't utilize his type of WR. Manningham is a rookie, dumb as a post and again, we don't know how to call plays for smaller, shifty WR's

Mr. Hero
03-21-2009, 05:05 PM
I like Nicks a little more than Britt but I like both of them. That said I'm not infatuated with either one like I am William Beatty. I don't really think they're going to be much better than Ramses Barden, who'll be available in the second round. The kid's 6'6.5" 230 LBs, runs a mid 4.5 40, has strong hands, long arms, is physical at the line which makes him a real load to jam, he's already a very strong blocker and he can get open deep. Add to that that he's a hard working kid who won't back down and I really don't think he's a significantly worse prospect than either Nicks or Britt, and the difference certainly isn't as massive as the drop off at LT after Beatty. I'm glad that there are options for us, i just hope Reese is able to walk away from day one with one of those WRs and Beatty.

scottyboy
03-21-2009, 07:28 PM
but Beatty is terrible and WR is a much more pressing need...

plus, Barden is not even close to the level of Nicks and Britt

BaLLiN
03-21-2009, 11:35 PM
you're totally wrong on our coaching. Smith came in right away and was a big success. Moss is too small and was hurt early in his career. That's playcalling that we can't utilize his type of WR. Manningham is a rookie, dumb as a post and again, we don't know how to call plays for smaller, shifty WR's

smith came from a prostyle offense manningham just ran mostly streaks comebacks or sometimes drags, moss had alot of production off of screens (which we can't do).

Smith is a product of good coaching in college, manningham and moss used their skills to best them in college, the transisition to the pros cant rely on physical attributes purely

I agree we dont know how to use small recievers but still i dont believe in our recievers coaches, but it could be just that our system and the WRs we have to mold arent great.

BaLLiN
03-21-2009, 11:38 PM
but Beatty is terrible and WR is a much more pressing need...

plus, Barden is not even close to the level of Nicks and Britt

Barden is could be amazing, id take a flier in the third, not spending a 2nd. Im not 100% with Beatty bc id rather get a runblocking RT or LG, Diehl has been good no sense in drafting someone behind him when Whimper performed pretty well in his few times on the field. Boothe is a decent backup at RT, just decent

Mr. Hero
03-22-2009, 12:17 AM
If Beatty weighed 10-15 more pounds he'd be a top 10 pick. He's a very strong pass blocker and gets a great early push, if he were strong enough to finish his blocks more he'd be a beast. Great back up for Diehl this season and next year Diehl can swing over to RT and replace McKenzie. WR's a biggest need but as I've said I think the gap between Beatty and a guy like Meredith or Kropog is a lot bigger than the gap between Barden and Nicks/Britt, Barden's got to adjust more since he's coming from a lower level of competition but his pros and cons aren't really that far from Britt and Nicks when it comes to his game. WR is a big need for sure but any future number one we draft won't be ready to take over that job for at least another year, maybe two, and by then I expect Barden to have caught up to Nicks/Britt as developing young WR. That kid's going to be a steal even though he was a big fish in a small pond, so to speak, in college. As for Barden I think we have to take him with our second second rounder since he won't fall to our third. Now I wouldn't mind trading back a little from our second rounder if we can still get him but I really think he could end up a mid second rounder come draft day.

BaLLiN
03-22-2009, 07:57 AM
If Beatty weighed 10-15 more pounds he'd be a top 10 pick. He's a very strong pass blocker and gets a great early push, if he were strong enough to finish his blocks more he'd be a beast. Great back up for Diehl this season and next year Diehl can swing over to RT and replace McKenzie. WR's a biggest need but as I've said I think the gap between Beatty and a guy like Meredith or Kropog is a lot bigger than the gap between Barden and Nicks/Britt, Barden's got to adjust more since he's coming from a lower level of competition but his pros and cons aren't really that far from Britt and Nicks when it comes to his game. WR is a big need for sure but any future number one we draft won't be ready to take over that job for at least another year, maybe two, and by then I expect Barden to have caught up to Nicks/Britt as developing young WR. That kid's going to be a steal even though he was a big fish in a small pond, so to speak, in college. As for Barden I think we have to take him with our second second rounder since he won't fall to our third. Now I wouldn't mind trading back a little from our second rounder if we can still get him but I really think he could end up a mid second rounder come draft day.

thats an interesting proposal, i dont really like the idea, but i could see it work.

As for developing WRs, i think we need a vet to stand in and teach these guys, losing toomer and plax leaves us with all young guns

bigbluedefense
03-23-2009, 11:06 AM
thoughts on the recent Braylon Edwards rumors?

I hope we don't let go of Steve Smith. And his contract is up in 2 years, so I don't know if we're just renting him if we do in fact trade for him or we plan on dishing out big time money.

We spent a lot of money lately, I'm not a big fan of that, although I love some of our moves.


If we do in fact get Braylon, we should do everything in our power to move up in the draft and select one of the OTs, like Michael Oher.

Only 2 things scare me about Braylon.

1. the obvious: hands. can we trust him in a clutch situation?
2. contract

Giantsfan1080
03-23-2009, 11:13 AM
I'm all for trading Edwards as long as we don't give up Smith. He really is a deal breaker for me. Edwards 2007 season was amazing and I'm sure when he has a good Qb throwing to him again his drops will go down. I'm not worried about the mone because Reese and Abrams know what they are doing with the cap. If they think it's feasible to add him to the team then I'm sure they have the numbers worked out.

bigbluedefense
03-23-2009, 11:17 AM
One thing that scares me is, the team that wins free agency almost never wins the SB.

with all these moves we're making and could potentially make, we were this year's free agency "winners." do we want to be that? that scares me a little.


If we do get Plax back, maybe this trade isn't a great idea. We just saw what TO and Roy Williams did in Dallas. Having 2 guys like that doesn't work.

I know some of you will bring up Q and Fitz, but thats diff. Fitz isn't a troublemaker. Edwards and Plax both have egos.


If we lose Plax though, I'm all for this trade, as long as Steve Smith isn't included in it.

I think this trade eventually gets done. We just have to sweeten the pot a little bit.

Giantsfan1080
03-23-2009, 11:33 AM
We were the free agency winner the year we signed Plax, McKenzie, and Pierce also. Those moves were obviously big parts to our SB win. I really have all the trust in the world in Reese right now so whatever he decides I'm sure it's the right move. We really have no reason to doubt him at this point. I'd be really upset about giving up Smith. Hopefully the Browns change their minds and decide to take Manningham or Hixon instead.

BaLLiN
03-23-2009, 04:31 PM
If Braylon resigned for a smaller contract for lets say 4 years 28 mil id take it

Damix
03-23-2009, 07:19 PM
As expected we were awarded a 3rd round pick for compensation.

Geo
03-23-2009, 07:23 PM
I thought it would be a 4th, sorry for telling you guys differently. Although I set your expectations lower so you would be happy today. :D

(like I am with the Colts' 4th round comp pick!)

Mr. Hero
03-23-2009, 07:44 PM
I thought it would be a 4th, sorry for telling you guys differently. Although I set your expectations lower so you would be happy today. :D

(like I am with the Colts' 4th round comp pick!)


There's nothing you can't do with hard work, good people and very low expectations!

hugegmenfan
03-23-2009, 08:22 PM
I would not read much right now into the Edwards talk guys. Apparently the Giants contacted the Browns a MONTH AGO and have not talked since, but the fact that they did talk was just leaked in the past couple of days.

BaLLiN
03-23-2009, 08:54 PM
As expected we were awarded a 3rd round pick for compensation.

I thought it would be a 4th, sorry for telling you guys differently. Although I set your expectations lower so you would be happy today. :D

(like I am with the Colts' 4th round comp pick!)

oh yes!!! i was right!!! this gives us even more to work with. But thanks Geo this did make me feel better alot because you said id be a 4th. This is crazy.

I posted a mock,
gives us
1. Hakeem Nicks (trade a 4th away)
2a. LeSean McCoy
2b. Andy Levitre

bigbluedefense
03-24-2009, 09:11 AM
Yeah, I think the Braylon Edwards talks have subsided until we find out whats going on with Burress.

I think if Burress comes back, we're not going after Edwards, but if he is done for, the Edwards talks will resume.

If we do in fact lose Burress, I think getting Edwards probably is the best thing we can do, so I'm all for it.

If we do however keep Burress, the question becomes, do we go after a WR anyway?

Assuming Burress comes back, I think instead of drafting a WR, we should make an aggressive move to go after a LT in the 1st round, preferably Michael Oher since it won't cost as much to move up to get him.

A LT is the only missing piece to our offense if (big if) Burress comes back.

If Burress does not come back however, we have to do 1 of 2 things:

A. Go after Edwards (preferred)

B. Have 1 specific WR in mind in this draft, and do what it takes to get him. Whether its Crabtree, Maclin, DHB, Nicks, Britt or whoever, I don't care anymore. I trust Reese, just go and get your guy Reese.

Giantsfan1080
03-24-2009, 10:54 AM
I htink that even if Plax comes back we should go WR. Plax is so unpredictable we have to make sure if we lose him again we have a nother WR. I say we go WR first in the draft no matter what.

bigbluedefense
03-24-2009, 12:27 PM
I htink that even if Plax comes back we should go WR. Plax is so unpredictable we have to make sure if we lose him again we have a nother WR. I say we go WR first in the draft no matter what.

now if thats the case, would you rather us trade for Braylon anyway, or draft a developmental WR with upside, like DHB or Crabtree or Maclin?

at that point, we can gamble more on WRs with higher ceilings, since we won't need a WR to step up immediately in his absence.

Giantsfan1080
03-24-2009, 01:01 PM
now if thats the case, would you rather us trade for Braylon anyway, or draft a developmental WR with upside, like DHB or Crabtree or Maclin?

at that point, we can gamble more on WRs with higher ceilings, since we won't need a WR to step up immediately in his absence.

I'd do everything like Plax won't be on the team. I'd still trade for Braylon but then I'd probably not take a WR with the first pick we have and look at Barden or Robiskie in the 2nd round. If Plax does come back and we don't trade for Braylon then I'd still go Wr with the first pick.

Crickett
03-24-2009, 01:37 PM
I posted a mock,
gives us
1. Hakeem Nicks (trade a 4th away)

A 4th? The Giants should trade a second. Anything to get Hakeem Nicks.

:p



Yeah, I think the Braylon Edwards talks have subsided until we find out whats going on with Burress.

I think if Burress comes back, we're not going after Edwards, but if he is done for, the Edwards talks will resume.

I hope not. Waiting until you're sure you're in a weaker negotiating position before you start trying to get a deal done is not a good idea IMO.

bigbluedefense
03-24-2009, 02:12 PM
A 4th? The Giants should trade a second. Anything to get Hakeem Nicks.

:p





I hope not. Waiting until you're sure you're in a weaker negotiating position before you start trying to get a deal done is not a good idea IMO.

The Giants probably know more about Burress's case than anybody other than Burress. I think they already know what his most likely fate is going to be. And I have a hunch he doesn't do jailtime, but thats just me.

bigbluedefense
03-24-2009, 02:16 PM
I know we stockpiled on defensive linemen, but I can't emphasize enough how much I love Jarron Gilbert. I really think he'd be a beast in our defense.

He reminds me of a young Strahan in a way. But in today's NFL, he'd line up inside instead of LE like Strahan did.

He's got a great weight at 288, he's long, he's got great leverage and great strength, a great bullrush, great use of hands, deceptive speed, I really really like him.

I like him as a hybrid pass rusher for us off the bench, and if he decides to get up to 300 lbs, he could be our UT.

Gilbert won't thrive in every defense, but he'd thrive in ours. He's built for it. With Bernard getting up in age, Robbins most likely getting cut, and Coffield's contract expiring after this year, its not out of this world to nab Gilbert.

Id love it if we did. I know that much.

Giantsfan1080
03-24-2009, 02:22 PM
The Giants probably know more about Burress's case than anybody other than Burress. I think they already know what his most likely fate is going to be. And I have a hunch he doesn't do jailtime, but thats just me.

According to one of the Giants blogs a lot of people are hearing he gets no jail time and 5 years probation.

BaLLiN
03-24-2009, 04:08 PM
According to one of the Giants blogs a lot of people are hearing he gets no jail time and 5 years probation.

does that mean he'll just get suspended for a certain amount of games?

Malaka
03-24-2009, 04:10 PM
does that mean he'll just get suspended for a certain amount of games?

He's probably going to have at least a 4 game suspension regardless if he spends no time in prison or a day,week,month, etc.

Giantsfan1080
03-24-2009, 05:32 PM
He's probably going to have at least a 4 game suspension regardless if he spends no time in prison or a day,week,month, etc.

I'm not so sure of that. He has no priors and usually the NFL only suspends guys that do.

BaLLiN
03-24-2009, 05:32 PM
He's probably going to have at least a 4 game suspension regardless if he spends no time in prison or a day,week,month, etc.

thats not too bad, we only really need him for the playoffs bc of the drop in our divison which could net us 4 or 5 wins alone

Kase1
03-25-2009, 07:27 PM
I'm not so sure of that. He has no priors and usually the NFL only suspends guys that do.

Didnt Goodell already say there was gonna be no suspension earlier this year???

bigbluedefense
03-25-2009, 07:51 PM
I really hope that news about Burress is true. Goodell has said that he suspends repeat offenders, and Burress wasn't a repeat offender.


I still wouldn't be surprised if he does get suspended, but I think if he somehow sees no jailtime, we're talking about 4 games max for his suspension.

Kase1
03-25-2009, 07:52 PM
But didnt he say that Plax wont get suspended around the same time the giants put him on the shelf./..... or did he instill a 4game suspension, I 4g4t

bigbluedefense
03-25-2009, 07:53 PM
he didn't say anything. the giants went ahead and suspended him.

our front office underestimated how much we needed him.

Kase1
03-25-2009, 07:54 PM
he didn't say anything. the giants went ahead and suspended him.

our front office underestimated how much we needed him.

LOL to put it lightly

bigbluedefense
03-25-2009, 08:14 PM
LOL to put it lightly

we were guilty of it too. i remember most if not all of us thought we'd be fine without him.

in the long term, maybe that could be true, but theres no doubt we clearly weren't the same team last year without him.

Mr. Hero
03-25-2009, 08:37 PM
I've been pimping William Beatty for a while since I think the only thing holding him back from being a franchise tackle is 10-15 pounds, but I wanted to mention TJ Lang who's a lot tougher than I thought he was. He's got very quick feet and he slides well, but I really was under-estimating his physicality until my buddy made me watch some tape on him. If we go WR in the first I want us to wait until the third round or our comp pick and grab Lang then.

dtowner
03-26-2009, 02:17 PM
I've been pimping William Beatty for a while since I think the only thing holding him back from being a franchise tackle is 10-15 pounds, but I wanted to mention TJ Lang who's a lot tougher than I thought he was. He's got very quick feet and he slides well, but I really was under-estimating his physicality until my buddy made me watch some tape on him. If we go WR in the first I want us to wait until the third round or our comp pick and grab Lang then.

Giant Fans NIGHTMARE.

LOL - jk - But Beatty is a stretch as a first rounder and to not get an LB until the 5th round seems unlikely. And to take a TE with the 45th pick overall when you have much bigger needs at LB, Safety and WR seems out of place. I would much rather see:

LB (Stintim, Lauranitis, Matthews - who ever is there)
WR(Robiskie, Britt or Nicks - who ever is there)
Oline (Beatty, Loadholt, Johnson from LSU)
Safety (Chung, Vaughn, Bruton from ND)

P.S. I also posted this under a Mock Draft Comment somewhere, but there are so many forum boards here I can't keep track.

Mr. Hero
03-26-2009, 04:11 PM
Giant Fans NIGHTMARE.

LOL - jk - But Beatty is a stretch as a first rounder and to not get an LB until the 5th round seems unlikely. And to take a TE with the 45th pick overall when you have much bigger needs at LB, Safety and WR seems out of place. I would much rather see:

LB (Stintim, Lauranitis, Matthews - who ever is there)
WR(Robiskie, Britt or Nicks - who ever is there)
Oline (Beatty, Loadholt, Johnson from LSU)
Safety (Chung, Vaughn, Bruton from ND)

P.S. I also posted this under a Mock Draft Comment somewhere, but there are so many forum boards here I can't keep track.

Lil animal and Matthews won't be better SLBs than the winner of the Goff, Clark and Kehl summer camp battle, so I don't see the need to go LB early, when a guy like Williams is rawer, but his style of play fits the SLB position much better and while be a big help on STs early.

As for the Nelson pick that was the last pick I filled out, well that and pat turner in the 6th, so since I already had all of our need filled with players who were solid values later on I figured to go for a luxury pick and Nelson would let us use some beastly 2 TE sets where both TEs were strong blockers who could get out catch the ball.

BaLLiN
03-26-2009, 08:05 PM
If we get Plax back, and we pickup Nicks, we are set at WR for a few years. Nicks is exactly what i think of a #2 target is. a YAC and Possession guy, Plax takes doubles and then Nicks will be open alot if not Smith, Boss, or a HB will be.

WR 1- Plax, (developmental player like Barden or Massoquoi)
WR 2- Nicks, Hixon, Manningham
WR 3- Steve Smith, Manningham
WR 4- Hixon, Moss, Mannigham

thatd be fricken terrific.

1.(prob trade up 4th) Hakeem Nicks (borderline starter)
2a.(saints) Duke Robinson (borderline starter)
2b. (trade up w/ 3rd) LeSean McCoy (reserve bc BJ gets injured alot)
3(comp). Mohamed Massoquoi (developmental)
4. (trade up w/ 5th) Courtney Greene (developmental)
5.(saints) Wopamo Osaisai (developmental)
6. Ryan Purvis (good ST, good balanced TE)
7. Kevin Huber (developmental)

Because we dont have that many holes taking some prospects that need a little time to adapt is something we can do.

Giantsfan1080
03-26-2009, 11:03 PM
A crazy thought just popped into my head. What happens if we take Britt with our first pick and then trade up and take Nicks as well? I mean we have the fire power to do so and no other glaring holes where we need to go that way. I acutally think it's very feasible to do. Am I nuts or does anyone else think this is a possibility?

Mr. Hero
03-27-2009, 01:40 PM
A crazy thought just popped into my head. What happens if we take Britt with our first pick and then trade up and take Nicks as well? I mean we have the fire power to do so and no other glaring holes where we need to go that way. I acutally think it's very feasible to do. Am I nuts or does anyone else think this is a possibility?

Not that crazy, although instead of trading up I think it'd make sense to grab Nicks, because he will be an early impact WR, and then grab a guy like Ramses Barden to slowly develop, I'm really high on that kid, he's like a small school Plax if wasn't a nucklehead

touchdownmaker
03-27-2009, 05:55 PM
A crazy thought just popped into my head. What happens if we take Britt with our first pick and then trade up and take Nicks as well? I mean we have the fire power to do so and no other glaring holes where we need to go that way. I acutally think it's very feasible to do. Am I nuts or does anyone else think this is a possibility?

I was thinking that myself if Plax was going to see some jail time. I was think either DHB and Nicks, or Nicks and Britt. But now, I think we can grab Nicks/Britt then trade up for Barden in the third. I really think they need to bring in Barden though. He would be a great developmental talent.

By the way, I think Nicks is an excellent #2 receiver. I am not happy about his weight, but he has hands that you want a number two to have.

Geo
03-27-2009, 06:19 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the Colts at #27 get at least one offer to trade down, because Britt to the Giants seems like such a good/obvious fit that another team interested in a #1 WR would know to trade up before the Giants or the Eagles at #28 (unlikely but you never know).

Mr. Hero
03-27-2009, 10:00 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the Colts at #27 get at least one offer to trade down, because Britt to the Giants seems like such a good/obvious fit that another team interested in a #1 WR would know to trade up before the Giants or the Eagles at #28 (unlikely but you never know).

That's why we grab Nicks for now and Barden to develop to be the number one down the road. We'd be talkin about the new Fitzy/Boldin, but in the big apple this time. :D

BaLLiN
03-28-2009, 12:06 PM
That's why we grab Nicks for now and Barden to develop to be the number one down the road. We'd be talkin about the new Fitzy/Boldin, but in the big apple this time. :D

yea except Fitz had amazing hands and was an elite prospect while Barden is a small school guy with a big frame and good combine.

and Boldin's only real knock was his speed and how he may be a TE-WR hybrid, which worked out for the better and Nicks is becoming a fat WR

Mr. Hero
03-28-2009, 02:03 PM
yea except Fitz had amazing hands and was an elite prospect while Barden is a small school guy with a big frame and good combine.

and Boldin's only real knock was his speed and how he may be a TE-WR hybrid, which worked out for the better and Nicks is becoming a fat WR

I know barden's no fitz, but he was dominant at his level and has a great work ethic, which, alongside his physical tools, is all you can ask from a guy who went to Cal-Poly. He's already a very good run blocker and is a very physical WR, maybe it's just me but he seems like a perfect fit for eli and this team, if we're able to polish his route-running and get him more explosive out of his cuts.

And don't make me re-hash why Nicks' weight is not that big of a concern. You know just as well as I do that with how much these prospects are working out around this time that they have to consume a lot of calories, and suddenly having to stop working out due to an injury will result in the gain of 7 pounds, which he's supposedly already lost again, so I don't get why people want to blow that out of proportion like Nicks is lazy or something. He weighed in at 227, which is 7-12 pounds over his playing weight at most. THE HORROR!!!!

scottyboy
03-28-2009, 02:29 PM
I know barden's no fitz, but he was dominant at his level and has a great work ethic, which, alongside his physical tools, is all you can ask from a guy who went to Cal-Poly. He's already a very good run blocker and is a very physical WR, maybe it's just me but he seems like a perfect fit for eli and this team, if we're able to polish his route-running and get him more explosive out of his cuts.

And don't make me re-hash why Nicks' weight is not that big of a concern. You know just as well as I do that with how much these prospects are working out around this time that they have to consume a lot of calories, and suddenly having to stop working out due to an injury will result in the gain of 7 pounds, which he's supposedly already lost again, so I don't get why people want to blow that out of proportion like Nicks is lazy or something. He weighed in at 227, which is 7-12 pounds over his playing weight at most. THE HORROR!!!!

you know in the first paragraph you pretty much described Kenny Britt right? I like Barden though.

and it's because Nicks is lazy, there've been reports of it. I don't get why he's getting so much hype. Hopefully a team ala Chicago falls in love with him and doesn't even give us the chance to trade up for him

Mr. Hero
03-28-2009, 03:00 PM
you know in the first paragraph you pretty much described Kenny Britt right? I like Barden though.

and it's because Nicks is lazy, there've been reports of it. I don't get why he's getting so much hype. Hopefully a team ala Chicago falls in love with him and doesn't even give us the chance to trade up for him

I agree that Barden and Kenny Britt have a really similar game, that's why a part of me likes the idea of grabbing the 6'6.5" Ramses Barden a full round lower and grabbing a potential stud at another position that won't be there later in the first.

As for Nicks there's been speculation about his work ethic because he weighed in at 227 and was listed at 212. Well two things about that, he played his senior season at closer to 220 and wasn't over-weight in the least. And since he was working out for his combine and his pro-days, he was eating a lot, happens when you're constant pushing your body. Then when he got injured and had to abruptly alter his workout regimen and his body hadn't yet adjusted to using up that much less energy and was still making him feel hungry enough for him to eat as much as he had been. So he put on 7 pounds, so what, he's dropped them already since and isn't even entirely healthy yet. I think you're being unfair to Nicks just because he's a similar prospect to your boy and some other people like him more *shrug*

scottyboy
03-28-2009, 03:57 PM
I agree that Barden and Kenny Britt have a really similar game, that's why a part of me likes the idea of grabbing the 6'6.5" Ramses Barden a full round lower and grabbing a potential stud at another position that won't be there later in the first.

As for Nicks there's been speculation about his work ethic because he weighed in at 227 and was listed at 212. Well two things about that, he played his senior season at closer to 220 and wasn't over-weight in the least. And since he was working out for his combine and his pro-days, he was eating a lot, happens when you're constant pushing your body. Then when he got injured and had to abruptly alter his workout regimen and his body hadn't yet adjusted to using up that much less energy and was still making him feel hungry enough for him to eat as much as he had been. So he put on 7 pounds, so what, he's dropped them already since and isn't even entirely healthy yet. I think you're being unfair to Nicks just because he's a similar prospect to your boy and some other people like him more *shrug*

But all the other prospects are going through similar workouts and stoppage and none have had the same reports as Nicks.

And no, I was not a fan of Nicks before Britt even entered. They're hardly similar either. If we traded up and picked both as GF1080 suggested, I'd be ecstatic. I don't HATE Bicks, i just feel he's been over-rated for a while now

Mr. Hero
03-28-2009, 04:08 PM
But all the other prospects are going through similar workouts and stoppage and none have had the same reports as Nicks.

And no, I was not a fan of Nicks before Britt even entered. They're hardly similar either. If we traded up and picked both as GF1080 suggested, I'd be ecstatic. I don't HATE Bicks, i just feel he's been over-rated for a while now

I'm pretty sure most prospects haven't had to stop working out due to injury. :confused:

As for Nicks/Britt they're similarly rated prospects is what I meant. Although are similar in how physical they are running with the ball and working the intermediate passing game. Nicks has better hands and attacks the ball more while Kenny is a better deep threat, but to say they're hardly similar isn't really accurate.

BaLLiN
03-28-2009, 05:44 PM
1. Hakeemith Nicksiths
2a. Dukeseth Robinsith
2b.Clitith Sintimith
3a.(trade awayeth 4theth) Ramseth Bardeth
3b. Courtneth Greeneth
5a. Ianith Johnsoneth
5b. Wopamith Osaisith
6. Ryaneth Purvith
7. HUBERETH

Givesith us a #1 &2 WR, Starting LG, bakcup SLB, future Starting S, WIND, speedy gonzalez, balanced TE and ST, jeff feagles offspring

scottyboy
03-28-2009, 05:58 PM
I'm pretty sure most prospects haven't had to stop working out due to injury. :confused:

As for Nicks/Britt they're similarly rated prospects is what I meant. Although are similar in how physical they are running with the ball and working the intermediate passing game. Nicks has better hands and attacks the ball more while Kenny is a better deep threat, but to say they're hardly similar isn't really accurate.

you haven't heard this type of weight flux with guys like Crabtree.

And yes, they are hardly similar. Britt is taller, faster, and much better at jump balls and stronger. Nicks may be a bit more refined and better after the catch. Really, the fact they're both big(Nicks is kinda big, i guess), physical and slated mid 1st-early 2nd is about all they have in common

Giantsfan1080
03-28-2009, 06:19 PM
We're not carry 2 punters on the roster this year and I really don't think we'll put a punter on the Practice Squad. We're not going after a new punter untill Feagles says he's done.

BaLLiN
03-29-2009, 11:57 AM
We're not carry 2 punters on the roster this year and I really don't think we'll put a punter on the Practice Squad. We're not going after a new punter untill Feagles says he's done.

well when will he be done, we cant just throw a rookie out to punt, if we draft one and have both go to training camp and if huber does decent enough Feagles will probably leave on his own.

scottyboy
03-29-2009, 02:02 PM
well when will he be done, we cant just throw a rookie out to punt, if we draft one and have both go to training camp and if huber does decent enough Feagles will probably leave on his own.

we'd sign a FA or just draft Feagles' son, simple as that.

And it's a punter, honestly. We're not talking throwing some rookie QB out there to start day 1 or something(which happens and works out in the NFL too.) Just let Feagles punt forever. or until he says he's done. He's the kind of dude who will tell the FO when it's his last season and all that jazz. And I don't think he'll go all Tiki about it either.

BaLLiN
03-29-2009, 09:42 PM
we'd sign a FA or just draft Feagles' son, simple as that.

And it's a punter, honestly. We're not talking throwing some rookie QB out there to start day 1 or something(which happens and works out in the NFL too.) Just let Feagles punt forever. or until he says he's done. He's the kind of dude who will tell the FO when it's his last season and all that jazz. And I don't think he'll go all Tiki about it either.

yeah but Huber is just so uber amazing, idk i feel like this year or next is feagles last

scottyboy
03-29-2009, 09:44 PM
we're just gonna draft CJ Feagles in 3 years, it's all good

bigbluedefense
03-30-2009, 09:49 AM
we don't need a punter. we need a kicker. need to let go of Tynes and Carney is too old.

bigbluedefense
03-30-2009, 10:11 AM
im reading that his plea deal will most likely include jail time.


now the question is, how much jail?


im hoping its like Bradshaw's plea, where he does 60 days, 30 days a year during the offseason.

but so far, no bueno for Burress.

bigbluedefense
03-30-2009, 11:34 AM
Ok, Im really bored, so here's a 7 round mock for shits and giggles.

No trades, because we can't speculate on that right now.


1. Hakeem Nicks WR
- Best available WR. I see Britt going off the board before this pick. Nicks is slipping unfairly because of his workout. He'll be very good in the NFL. Maybe never a true #1, but he'll be a blitz buster, and a solid intermediate YAC WR who fits our scheme. As long as Manningham can stretch the field (the Giants are really high on him), Im comfortable with Nicks underneath. Don't sleep on his ability downfield either. I love this guy, I think he'll be great. I rather have Britt, but Nicks explodes off the line faster and has great hands and blah blah blah. Can't complain with him at all.

2. Phil Loadholt LT/RT
-I think Loadholt will be a great pickup for us, even if this is a "reach". We need a future RT, and I think he can be that guy. At the very worst, you move him inside to RG, move Snee to LG and we have a beastly OG duo. I still think he can be a LT in this league, he's just inconsistent. With good coaching, I like his potential. He impressed me against Florida in the Championship game.

2. Jarron Gilbert DE/DT
-His stock is not nearly as high as this board hypes him to be. However, he is perfect for our scheme, and I think BPA at this point in the draft. Reese says he wants to create competition at every position. With Gilbert, guys like Alford, Robbins, and Coffield become expendable. With the competition we create on the dline, we'll be tough to block all game long. We'll be 3 deep in every position on the dline, even if we cut Alford and/or Robbins.

3. Kaluka Maiava WILL
-Again, Reese wants to create competition. He will push Wilkinson for our backup 3rd string WILL job, and Im really high on the guy. Put on the tape, he's all over the field and really disrespected as a player. I think he and Kehl will make very solid backups to Boley. His acquisition also allows us to cut the often injured Wilkinson, and allows us to develop Kehl as more of a SAM backer for our scheme. Gives us more versatility. Also a ST ace. Great team leader and great attitude.

3. Gerald Cadogan LT
-Developmental LT with potential. Gives us some depth in case we lose Whimper. Reminds me a lot of Whimper actually. Good team leader with good leadership, has potential with some work and conditioning. Will push Whimper and Koets and again, create competition amongst our backups.

4. Keenan Lewis CB/S
-Safety project. Will give us depth at SS or dime CB. Good intangibles, and good zone coverage. Great against the run and nice frame. With all the ZB we do, he could have potential.

5. Frantz Joseph MIKE
-Will create competition with Goff and Chase as our future MIKE. Love his downhill tenacity. Perfect for our scheme, albeit a little slow sideline to sideline. Parcells loves him, so thats all I need to know to certify him. And with Goff's back injury, theres no guarantee that he can ever play in this league anyway. So if thats the case, why not bring in some competition against him.

5. Bryan Hoyer QB
-Smart, accurate, decent size. Can give Woodson competition as our 3rd qb, and can develop down the road. Had potential but played with poor teammates. I like him as a developmental qb behind Eli. We could use a good backup qb. Carr signed on for another 1 year contract, and Woodson is god awful at this point. Developing a guy isn't a bad idea. It goes with Reese's desire to create competition at all positions.

6. Graham Gano K
-We need a kicker. Our kicker(s) suck. Best available guy. Let's get him. Open competition with Tynes in TC. Tynes weak leg (along with Carney) is a big reason why we suck kicking the ball in December and why our ST coverage was one of the worst in the league last year. When you kick off to the 10 yd line every kickoff, theyre gonna get good field position.

7. Anthony Reddick S
-Another body at Safety. Has good measurables. Miami pedigree. Its worth a shot i guess.


We're not going to get many if any immediate starters from this draft. I think the focal point should be what Reese said, which is making our depth as strong as possible. We could use upgrades at certain positions as far as depth is concerned, and I think Reese makes a concentrated effort in doing that.

With Robbins getting old, and Bernard's contract being back heavy, getting a cheap 2nd round guy like Gilbert is not a bad idea at all. We can definitely afford him, and we can always cut dead weight at DT to keep him. Remember, we had some guy named Clark as DT on our roster last year. We can easily lose him and replace him with Gilbert. And with the most likely cut of either Robbins or Alford, and with Coffield in the final year of his contract, its not a bad idea at all if he's BPA at that point to nab him.

We lack depth on the oline. Whimper is solid, but his contract will be up soon as well, and is coming off a foot injury. We have no backup RT. Loadholt can be that, and don't forget, if we eventually move Diehl back inside and Loadholt is nothing more than just a RG, we can always slide Snee to C, where he has experience before. C is actually a need we might go for. We need a credible backup to O'Hara. Its the weakest depth position on our oline.

Our LBs are average, we can use as much competition there as possible. Our safeties lack depth. Lack depth at qb, and our kicker sucks. So depth is the name of the game with this mock.

eh, i know im not the best at this, but im super bored right now.

BaLLiN
03-30-2009, 05:13 PM
im sorry but thats a gross mock, to go last to first, Reddick is ridiculously injury prone, wasnt great but average.

Gano is good, but Tynes signed an extension, and although i dont like him, we need to spend money wisely.

A QB again? Carr is a good backup, Andre Woodson will be #3, do we really need to waste a draft pick on a player that will be on practice squad and possibly taken away from us.

Joseph is an okay pick.

Whimper has not been given opportunities at LT outside of maybe two games and in those two games he's looked good, so has kevin boothe.

Maiava is good, and a great fit for our scheme, but Boley just signed here and if needed we have wilkinson or kehl who both have experience just need more of it to be good.

DL in the second? too much invested in there, i love DL but i dont want good players sitting because we already have 3 maybe 4 pro bowl DE's and Canty who is a DE/DT hybrid in our system anyway.

bigbluedefense
03-30-2009, 07:55 PM
im sorry but thats a gross mock, to go last to first, Reddick is ridiculously injury prone, wasnt great but average.

Gano is good, but Tynes signed an extension, and although i dont like him, we need to spend money wisely.

A QB again? Carr is a good backup, Andre Woodson will be #3, do we really need to waste a draft pick on a player that will be on practice squad and possibly taken away from us.

Joseph is an okay pick.

Whimper has not been given opportunities at LT outside of maybe two games and in those two games he's looked good, so has kevin boothe.

Maiava is good, and a great fit for our scheme, but Boley just signed here and if needed we have wilkinson or kehl who both have experience just need more of it to be good.

DL in the second? too much invested in there, i love DL but i dont want good players sitting because we already have 3 maybe 4 pro bowl DE's and Canty who is a DE/DT hybrid in our system anyway.

i understand. im not the best when it comes to college players, i don't watch enough college football to really know all these guys as well as most of you.

to explain my picks:

Reddick was a 7th rounder. honestly i have no idea who to go with there, theres always somebody that falls in the draft, whoever falls is who im down with.

Tynes sucks. And Im sure we can cut him with minimal cap casualty. As long as we're under the cap, whats the fuss? Have an open competition and let the best man win the job. Our kicker situation is real bad. Im very much in favor of upgrading that position, even if it means like a 1 mill cap hit. Big deal.

Heres my logic with the qb: Carr is only on board for another year. And Andre Woodson has shown absolutely nothing. So why not have an open competition between Woodson and Hoyer for the #3 qb spot? We can have 3 qbs on the roster because we won't have 2 kickers this year. So whoever wins the competition is our 3rd qb, and throw the other one on the practice squad. With Carr most likely leaving after this year, it would be nice to get a guy who can learn our system for a year and provide us competition for the 3rd qb spot, who can potentially become our #2. Hoyer has potential. He's smart and accurate. Thats really what you look for in a backup qb. With good coaching, he can be a decent game manager type of backup. I have no faith in Woodson right now, so why not create some competition there? I think it makes sense. Its a long term decision. If we lose Carr and Woodson still sucks, we could potentially enter the following year with terrible depth at qb with no worthy developmental player under our system.

I like Whimper, but again, his contract is coming up soon, and we might not be able to resign him. Kevin Boothe was downright awful last year. I want him cut if we sign oline depth. Boothe is nobody worth saving a roster spot for. Again, why not create competition? Better player stays on the roster. Im actually in favor now that I look back of going after a C instead of another developmental LT, because our depth at C is terrible. But either way, I see the competition as a good idea. Boothe can easily be replaced with a more promising player.

We're not trying to replace Boley, just provide more quality depth behind him. Wilkinson is done. He can't stay healthy. So why not replace him with a quality body in Maiava? Lbs don't need experience. Theyre like RBs in a sense that theyre plug and chug.

For the dline, you gotta think longterm. It might seem that we're deep right now, but thats an illusion. We're really not when you think about it. Bernard is old, and his contract is really only 2 years. Robbins contract is up after this year. So is Coffields. And until shown otherwise, Alford can be replaced.

So thats potentially 4 guys gonezo within 2 years if not sooner. So if you have a chance of nabbing a quality guy, why not get him? We can always cut Alford and replace him with Gilbert. And the best part is we can develop him slowly. Great teams don't need to start rookies right away. We draft to develop guys 2 years down the road. Its a long term decision to get a quality guy in our rotation, who gives us leverage when talking contracts with these other DTs on our roster. You don't want to have a gaping DT hole 2 years from now. DT is one of the hardest positions to master. We can develop Gilbert at a good pace, while letting go of aging players in Robbins and Bernard when the time is right.

The bottom line is this: we're not going to get many if any starters out of this draft. The Giants are at a point right now where our starters are pretty much set in stone. So while we can't get starters, what we can do is improve the quality of our backups. And I think we can do that with this draft.

Get younger and improve depth, while maintaining the same quality starting lineups, we'll be golden. Reese has an opportunity to build this team the way Andy Reid did with his, which is basically draft 1/2 years in advance. I think we should take advantage of that by looking forward and drafting to improve depth across the board.

BaLLiN
03-30-2009, 08:20 PM
I understand BBD but alot of those players im just not particularly high on, especially reddick.

I guess if i had to follow the way you want to do things

1. Hakeem Nicks
2a. Duke Robinson
2b. Ramses Barden
3a. Troy Kropog
3b. Terrence Taylor
4. Courtney Greene
5a. Franz Joseph
5b. Nic Harris
6. Wompamo Osaisai
7. Louie Sakoda

Nicks is a #2, clearly.
Robinson is the best guard in this draft, i think he's worth a first rounder, so the value is there.
Barden has #1 potential and since we can gamble its worth a try

So there three picks that could be starters in a year or two. thats how i see a 1st or 2nd round pick to be.

Kropog is a project, Taylor is inconsistent but could be a fire hydrant when Canty or Alford is in as the pass rushing DT, despite Coffield probably resigning. Greene, great ST, future solid backup possibly starter. Joseph and Harris great for ST although i think we have enough great ST LB's and LBs in general but those two fit our scheme well as either MLB or SLB for joseph or WLB for Harris. Osaisai is very fast and quick, just never had a great passrush when facing great WCO in the PAC 10. Sakoda is getting hated on, but he could be a gem.

bigbluedefense
03-31-2009, 10:10 AM
We're pretty stacked at OG, id say we're 3 deep with Snee, Seuburt, and Diehl, and then Koets can always play inside which he has for the most part.

I think we need depth at OT and C. C is actually our weakest link. I wouldn't mind going after Max Unger with NO's 2nd, our maybe even Alex Mack if he falls that far (doubt it).

That actually worries me a lot. O'Hara is getting older, and Reugamer sucks, so if we get an injury at C, our oline is screwed. We need a credible backup to O'Hara that we can plug in 2 years down the road.

I wouldn't mind if after drafting a WR, we go oline heavy in this draft to establish very solid depth on both lines.

If we can have the best and deepest dline and oline, we'll be a scary team.

Brad
04-01-2009, 02:05 PM
I keep on going back and forth on Nicks and Kenny Britt, I still can't seem to decide. Productivity vs. physical attributes that could blossom.

Mr. Hero
04-01-2009, 03:31 PM
We're pretty stacked at OG, id say we're 3 deep with Snee, Seuburt, and Diehl, and then Koets can always play inside which he has for the most part.

I think we need depth at OT and C. C is actually our weakest link. I wouldn't mind going after Max Unger with NO's 2nd, our maybe even Alex Mack if he falls that far (doubt it).

That actually worries me a lot. O'Hara is getting older, and Reugamer sucks, so if we get an injury at C, our oline is screwed. We need a credible backup to O'Hara that we can plug in 2 years down the road.

I wouldn't mind if after drafting a WR, we go oline heavy in this draft to establish very solid depth on both lines.

If we can have the best and deepest dline and oline, we'll be a scary team.

I want the giants to draft Eric Wood or AQ Shipley, neither's a dominant athlete, but both are strong enough and quick enough with really good heads on their shoulders. Wood is the better athlete and that's why he'll go a round higher but I think either one could be our eventual replacement for Shaun O'Hara.

BaLLiN
04-01-2009, 05:45 PM
I want the giants to draft Eric Wood or AQ Shipley, neither's a dominant athlete, but both are strong enough and quick enough with really good heads on their shoulders. Wood is the better athlete and that's why he'll go a round higher but I think either one could be our eventual replacement for Shaun O'Hara.

id rather take a guard and move them to center

I think in the best situation, we'd trade down a little, pick up a 3rd or 4th, then trade back up a little.

2a. (recieve a late 3rd but trade up w/ 4th) Hakeem Nicks
I think our forums overrate him alot, just because alot of teams have need for WR they wont reach.

2b. Clint Sintim
He's dropped alot, but he's a great fit at SLB and after him i feel there is a very large dropoff in talent.

2c. Max Unger
Versatility is valuable, saves roster spots.

3a. (use a #5 to trade up) Chase Coffman
I dont want to draft a TE, but here is good value and its likely to happen.

3b. Terrence Taylor
Great run stuffer we're missing, he played like a first rounder his junior year

3c. Courtney Greene
no brainer

5. Ian Johnson
great vision, good all around player

6. Wopamo Osaisai
great athlete, good corner, never had good players around him

7. Patrick Turner
was very smooth at combine

bigbluedefense
04-02-2009, 08:36 PM
I keep on going back and forth on Nicks and Kenny Britt, I still can't seem to decide. Productivity vs. physical attributes that could blossom.

Hakeem Nicks. At first I thought Britt, but after breaking both of them down its hands down Nicks. He's faster off the line, better off press coverage, he has bigger hands, better hands, deceptive speed, more clutch, bigger game time performer, same wingspan, better YAC, he's just plain better than Britt.


To me, the ice breaker is his hands. He has the best hands in the draft.


Britt's physical prowess over Nicks is overrated. Nicks is just as physically dominant, he has the same wingspan with bigger hands by a fair margin, and he's a better route runner. He's just as good of a blitz buster, and I think people sleep on his deceptive speed downfield.

The only WR in this draft Id take over Nicks is Crabtree. And it wouldn't even surprise me if Nicks winds up being better than Crabs. I think that highly of him now.

bigbluedefense
04-02-2009, 08:37 PM
To comment on Ballin's mock, I love me some Max Unger. I wouldn't mind him at all with NO's 2nd.

If we don't go WR in round 1, I want Clay Matthews.

BaLLiN
04-02-2009, 08:43 PM
I wouldnt use a pick on Matthews that high, he fits pretty well, but he seems like a guy whos maxed out his talent

touchdownmaker
04-03-2009, 12:34 PM
I don't know about Mathews Maxing out his talent. It seems like he is still getting better. He hasn't be able to play much, and it was only later on his senior year that Carol started to realize how important he was to the USC LB corps. He still has a lot to learn seeing how he has had that much playing time. I would also go onto to say that he is the most agile LB of the USC group. He would be able to hang with Jason Witten and would not be upset to see the G-men go after him.

I would rather have them go after Nicks though. He would be a great replacement for Toomer. Seeing how the Bears no longer have that 1st round pick, its even more likely that Nicks falls to us.

Mr. Hero
04-03-2009, 12:43 PM
Matthews was a late bloomer so while he's been packing on pounds his frame has been growing as well, so while he's a great athlete now I wouldn't be shocked to see him get up to 250-255 while retaining his quickness and not becoming a stiff like cushing.

BaLLiN
04-03-2009, 03:16 PM
Plax is officially gone. We need a WR badly now I think.

how long?

When im thinking about this draft, im thinking about giving up a future pick for Braylon.

This next year looks like it could be the year.

Trade: Future #1, #2b = Braylon

The year he had last year lowers his value, he no longer warrants pro bowl which is probably two 1sts, he's their #1 but he was inconsistent.

1. (trade back pick up #early 2 and late 3)
2a. Hakeem Nicks
perfect compliment to Braylon, tough guy who still makes great catches but he gets the YAC while braylon draws the double team from the small corners.


2b. (saints) Clint Sintim
If im the giants here im looking defense easily, corner is a possibility because quite frankly terrell thomas at FS is making alot of sense. DJ Moore right here would fit our system, but Delmas also allows us to be more versatile. Then there is Sintim, who fits perfectly, but we have alot of people at LB, well i see it this way, a rookie safety is harder to trust than a rookie LB, plus a ST LB like sintim would be great. Michael Johnson has done well.

3a. David Bruton
I dont really like him, but he seems like he's what we need backing up at safety and leading ST.

3b. Terrance Taylor
he's exactly what we need in front to take double teams off of our DE's

4. (trade up with 5th) Sebastian Vollmer
Scott doesnt have him down as a prospect, cant find him, but he seems like a great RT project.

5. Ian Johnson
great vision, scott has him as a late round/FA but he is worth it right here.

6. Ryan Purvis
Matt ryan relied on him, he didnt have a great QB at BC his last year, but in his junior season he was amazing, proved this past year he was a more than efficient blocker.

7.Wopamo Osaisai
i think i was wrong in his evaluation too, mostly because speed is valued, but he only has two picks, and he really only had a good half a year, but we could take him as a project/dimeback.

in conclusion
(Braylon Edwards)
2a. Hakeem Nicks
2b. Clint Sintim
3a. David Bruton
3b. Terrence Taylor
4. Sebastian Vollmer
5. Ian Johnson
6. Ryan Purvis
7. Wopamo Osaisai

we get a #1 and #2 reciever, i believe Nicks will be NFL ready after a few games, probably have him and Smith split time in 2 WR sets.

Sintim battles Blackburn and Clark for SLB spot, good insurance.

Bruton backs up both safety spots with CC Brown.

Taylor is definite goal line DT, probably work into the lineup and give DT's rest.

Vollmer ST guy probably, could give Boothe a run for his backup job.

Johnson could be a return man, i know hes not really fast, but his vision, slight speed, and strength make him a good asset back recieving. 4th back for insurance.

Purvis battles Darcy Johnson and Matthews for roster spot, probably beats out one of them.

Osaisai is least likely to make the team talent-wise, but the spot at corner might be there considering we only have:
1. Webster
2. Ross
3. Terrell Thomas
4. Kevin Dockery
5.?


posted that in discussion

bigbluedefense
04-03-2009, 07:13 PM
With Plaxico Burress officially gone from the Giants, the Giants need to look at a way to fix this offense with this draft.

Realistically, you cannot expect us to simply draft a "#1" wr and fix our problem. The problem must be fixed in other ways. So first, let's identify our problems on offense

1. A WR that can draw a double team, or beat man coverage more often then not, be a blitzbuster, and a redzone threat.

2. A RB who can catch out of the backfield on passing downs and add a glaring missing dimension to our offense.

3. A Left Tackle that won't get eaten up on the all out blitzes we saw at the end of the year.


These 3 things combined are the reason why our offense suffered so much at the end of the year. Without a RB who can catch out of the backfield, teams did not respect our flats in coverage and were able to send more bodies after Eli.

Without a real left tackle, those overload blitzes left Diehl on an island way too much and he got overwhelmed. He is not a good pass protector, and it showed when teams came after Eli.

And lastly, when we lost Burress, we lost our redzone threat, and our blitz buster. Why do you think we failed so much in the redzone and on 4th down conversions? We had no blitz buster. In the redzone with that shortened field, we only had Boss to throw to. On 4th down, we had no WR who can get that curl or quick slant in a physical must win matchup.

Burress hurts because we lose a double team, but what hurt us the most was his ability in the redzone and his ability to bust a blitz. Thats where we missed him the most, not his ability to stretch the field.


So how can we fix this problem? We have to take it step at a time. First and foremost, we need that blitz buster. And I think Hakeem Nicks is our guy. He's the best available guy to replace Plax in this draft. We need to get him. He won't stretch the field like Plax, but he can do everything else we needed Plax to do. He'll be our missing link in the redzone, and against the blitz. And thats good enough out of a rookie.

As for a pass catching RB, the bottomline is we have to hope that Bradshaw develops into that guy. We're not drafting a RB, so guys like Moreno and Donald Brown are a pipe dream. Although I would not be opposed to the idea. Remember guys, at the end of the day Bradshaw was a 7th round pick, and a possible trouble maker of the future.

As for left tackle, the only guy I can see available is Michael Oher. But his stock is rising so I don't see that happening unless we are aggressive.

If we can make some noise and land Nicks and Oher in this draft, by being aggressive with our picks and moving around to nab them, I think that will be enough to get us over the hump.

At least thats the best you can hope for. WR and LT are our biggest needs right now.

Unless of course we trade for Edwards. Then problem solved. But if we go the draft route, thats what we have to hope for.

scottyboy
04-03-2009, 07:20 PM
Now, what we need is Britt. Why? He's more of a down field threat and red-zone jump ball option. the thing is, we lost our #1 and 2 WR's. our options:
A: trade up for Crabtree
B: Draft Nicks
C: Draft Britt
D: Try and draft Nicks AND Britt
E: Take Nicks/Britt and a guy like Barden later.
F: Trade for Braylon
G: Sign Holt

just a couple quick options off the top of my head that we could combine together. But right now, WR is by far and away our #1 need, with Smith being our only good/reliable option.

Crickett
04-03-2009, 07:29 PM
Now, what we need is Britt. Why? He's more of a down field threat and red-zone jump ball option. the thing is, we lost our #1 and 2 WR's. our options:
A: trade up for Crabtree
B: Draft Nicks
C: Draft Britt
D: Try and draft Nicks AND Britt
E: Take Nicks/Britt and a guy like Barden later.
F: Trade for Braylon
G: Sign Holt

just a couple quick options off the top of my head that we could combine together. But right now, WR is by far and away our #1 need, with Smith being our only good/reliable option.


No options involving DHB?

bigbluedefense
04-03-2009, 07:30 PM
Now, what we need is Britt. Why? He's more of a down field threat and red-zone jump ball option. the thing is, we lost our #1 and 2 WR's. our options:
A: trade up for Crabtree
B: Draft Nicks
C: Draft Britt
D: Try and draft Nicks AND Britt
E: Take Nicks/Britt and a guy like Barden later.
F: Trade for Braylon
G: Sign Holt

just a couple quick options off the top of my head that we could combine together. But right now, WR is by far and away our #1 need, with Smith being our only good/reliable option.

I wouldn't mind drafting both Nicks and Britt at all.

Although I don't see it happening.

I can see Nicks/Britt and Robiskie though.

I think Rams Barden is being severely overrated. Its not just about height. You can't replace Plax with anyone who runs fast and is tall. If thats the case, there would be a Plax in every draft. We have to find the best quality WR, not necessarily the one who resembles Plax the most.

Thats why I favor Nicks over everyone outside of Crabtree.

I think he's the 2nd best WR in this draft.

bigbluedefense
04-03-2009, 07:30 PM
No options involving DHB?

Im not a DHB fan. I think he's going to be a bust.

Mr. Hero
04-03-2009, 08:57 PM
I wouldn't mind drafting both Nicks and Britt at all.

Although I don't see it happening.

I can see Nicks/Britt and Robiskie though.

I think Rams Barden is being severely overrated. Its not just about height. You can't replace Plax with anyone who runs fast and is tall. If thats the case, there would be a Plax in every draft. We have to find the best quality WR, not necessarily the one who resembles Plax the most.

Thats why I favor Nicks over everyone outside of Crabtree.

I think he's the 2nd best WR in this draft.

Barden's a lot more than just a tall guy who can run well, he's very well put together and really strong. He's a very good blocker already and difficult to jam, who goes up and attacks the ball with strong hands and his route running is solid for such a small school guy and the problems he needs to correct aren't very bad, he's got to get lower when he cuts at speed to make him explode out of those cuts. I don't think he's over-rated at all, it's simply that a lot of people haven't seen much of him so they don't know what it is he really brings. Seeing him end up one of the 5 best receivers in this draft wouldn't surprise me at all. On top of that he's a good kid who works hard and is confident he can improve while recognizing his own faults.

scottyboy
04-03-2009, 09:09 PM
BBD, i too think Barden's getting supremely over-rated. I'd nab him in the 3rd however, nice value there.

and no, DHB doesn't fit what we need/want and his bust factor is mad high

Number 10
04-04-2009, 01:45 PM
Something interesting here.

I am finishing up my final grades (should be done in 2 weeks) and I am doing the LBs right now. My top 5 are:

Aaron Curry - Wake Forest
Clay Matthews - USC
James Lauranaitis - Ohio State
Brian Cushing - USC
Ray Maualuga - USC

I found it interesting because just 3-4 months ago I had Matthews tagged as a guy we should not even consider until the end of the 2nd round. Now I'm not sure where he will end up on the overall big board as I am not done with a lot of other positions, but his grade is an 84 on my sheet. Last year, that would have been good for #23 overall. Considering the fact that this year's class will be overall weaker than last year's in all likelihood, Matthews may be a top 20 player on my board. I know some of you will like to hear that because there were a few here that having been talking about him as a 1st round pick in October. Credit to any of you that were in that boat.

BaLLiN
04-04-2009, 03:01 PM
Something interesting here.

I am finishing up my final grades (should be done in 2 weeks) and I am doing the LBs right now. My top 5 are:

Aaron Curry - Wake Forest
Clay Matthews - USC
James Lauranaitis - Ohio State
Brian Cushing - USC
Ray Maualuga - USC

I found it interesting because just 3-4 months ago I had Matthews tagged as a guy we should not even consider until the end of the 2nd round. Now I'm not sure where he will end up on the overall big board as I am not done with a lot of other positions, but his grade is an 84 on my sheet. Last year, that would have been good for #23 overall. Considering the fact that this year's class will be overall weaker than last year's in all likelihood, Matthews may be a top 20 player on my board. I know some of you will like to hear that because there were a few here that having been talking about him as a 1st round pick in October. Credit to any of you that were in that boat.

Sintim? i probably dont much here, i didnt watch USC games much, but Rey seems like the best of all of them and the one that has a higher ceiling, Cushing seems maxed out, i have no idea about matthews.

Sintim and Cushing seem the best for the SLB spot, Rey could play there.

Id personally rate them according to our system

1. Curry
2. Sintim
3. Cushing
4. Rey
5. lil monster
6. Matthews

Mr. Hero
04-04-2009, 04:47 PM
Matthews is a much better prospect than cushing.

Malaka
04-04-2009, 04:53 PM
I remember having an argument about Matthews with someone in the NYG forum I guess it was you Ballin, I don't know why you hate on Matthews so bad, Matthews is better than Cushing as a prospect and also much more versatile than Maualuga, out of the 3 Top USC backers he is the best.

LTgiants
04-04-2009, 04:57 PM
I remember having an argument about Matthews with someone in the NYG forum I guess it was you Ballin, I don't know why you hate on Matthews so bad, Matthews is better than Cushing as a prospect and also much more versatile than Maualuga, out of the 3 Top USC backers he is the best.

no that was me. I am the one who dislikes Matthews and thinks he is overrated

Malaka
04-04-2009, 06:00 PM
no that was me. I am the one who dislikes Matthews and thinks he is overrated

I don't know what you don't like about him, I think his workouts have proven he isn't a stiff like Cushing, he is a better pass rusher than Cushing, and is a lot better all around and more versatile than Maualuga, I think he is the best USC LB coming out this year.

LTgiants
04-04-2009, 06:07 PM
I don't know what you don't like about him, I think his workouts have proven he isn't a stiff like Cushing, he is a better pass rusher than Cushing, and is a lot better all around and more versatile than Maualuga, I think he is the best USC LB coming out this year.

I dont like Cushing that much either i think Cushing is the lesser of two evils in a sense. I dont think Clay is gonna do well in coverage and he wont bully his way to the qb like he did at usc in the nfl.

scottyboy
04-04-2009, 06:08 PM
i like cushing and matthews, but don't love either of them. If we grabbed a WR like Britt or nicks and one of them with our 2 first picks, I'd be fine. I think they'd both be great on the outside with Boley for years to come. That'd be nice. Build through the draft on our weak points. That's what we did with CB...

BaLLiN
04-04-2009, 09:29 PM
i agree with LT and scotty, although im probably in between both. I think Matthews has a more NFL skillset where Cushing is flashier in being stronger and faster although im not sure if its true it appears that way on film (the little i watch)

Rey is not great but he is alot like Kawika Mitchell to me, not just his looks, he is a solid LB who isnt great at blitzing or anything but he is a run stuffer and a menace in the middle.

Number 10
04-05-2009, 06:51 AM
i agree with LT and scotty, although im probably in between both. I think Matthews has a more NFL skillset where Cushing is flashier in being stronger and faster although im not sure if its true it appears that way on film (the little i watch)

Rey is not great but he is alot like Kawika Mitchell to me, not just his looks, he is a solid LB who isnt great at blitzing or anything but he is a run stuffer and a menace in the middle.

Maualuga is the best inside blitzing LB the draft has seen in a long time.

BaLLiN
04-05-2009, 08:43 AM
Maualuga is the best inside blitzing LB the draft has seen in a long time.

oh well then i like rey alot more than both those guys

Geo
04-05-2009, 09:47 AM
Maualuga is the best inside blitzing LB the draft has seen in a long time.
I don't see it, myself. He's not fast enough to reach the quarterback.

bigbluedefense
04-05-2009, 10:41 AM
Something interesting here.

I am finishing up my final grades (should be done in 2 weeks) and I am doing the LBs right now. My top 5 are:

Aaron Curry - Wake Forest
Clay Matthews - USC
James Lauranaitis - Ohio State
Brian Cushing - USC
Ray Maualuga - USC

I found it interesting because just 3-4 months ago I had Matthews tagged as a guy we should not even consider until the end of the 2nd round. Now I'm not sure where he will end up on the overall big board as I am not done with a lot of other positions, but his grade is an 84 on my sheet. Last year, that would have been good for #23 overall. Considering the fact that this year's class will be overall weaker than last year's in all likelihood, Matthews may be a top 20 player on my board. I know some of you will like to hear that because there were a few here that having been talking about him as a 1st round pick in October. Credit to any of you that were in that boat.

Ive been a fan of Matthews since the bowl game. I said then that he'd be a nice addition to our team, and that his speed and coverage ability was underrated. I came away very impressed.

From that same bowl game I felt disappointed in Cushing and Rey, but after going back and watching more USC, I grew to like Rey (who would be a BEAST at inside backer in our scheme), but still don't like Cushing.

Having that said, I don't think we even have the luxury of selecting any of them in the 1st round. WR is such a gaping hole, we must address that first.

Whats your thoughts on the Nicks vs Britt debate? Ive been having arguments with buddies of mine, everyone wants Britt, and I like Britt don't get me wrong and would love to have him on the Gmen, but I don't see how anyone can say he's better than Nicks.

Nicks is my #2 WR in this draft.

scottyboy
04-05-2009, 10:48 AM
BBD, I obviously am just a huge Britt homer, but I believe he's got WAYYYYY more upside, and is a bigger deep threat. He's also a better red zone threat and his weaknesses are being overblown. Plus his runblocking is just ridiculous, which makes him all the better fit here

Geo
04-05-2009, 10:51 AM
I definitely like Kenny Britt more, I don't think Nicks is quick enough and I can attack the entire field with Britt.

bigbluedefense
04-05-2009, 11:00 AM
I definitely like Kenny Britt more, I don't think Nicks is quick enough and I can attack the entire field with Britt.

Nicks speed is being very underrated, just like Boldin's speed was. He has deceptive speed. You can see him blow past people, he's faster than given credit for.

BBD, I obviously am just a huge Britt homer, but I believe he's got WAYYYYY more upside, and is a bigger deep threat. He's also a better red zone threat and his weaknesses are being overblown. Plus his runblocking is just ridiculous, which makes him all the better fit here

Im obviously a Britt homer too being a Rutgers fan, but I think the upside is more myth than fact honestly. First and foremost, they have an almost identical wingspan, they have identical speed, Nicks actually has hands/palms that are 2 inches bigger than Britt, which is why he can make such sick catches, theyre both big, strong and thick.

The only upside Britt has over Nicks is his strength and vertical. But is it really that important? Fitz has shown you don't need to be big to be a great redzone threat.

Nicks just knows how to get open, and he's clutch. Thats what i love about him. He shines in big moments. I think he's just as much of a redzone threat as Britt, and his runblocking can always improve, he's more than capable of improving that.

We really can't go wrong with either of them, but I think Nicks is going to be the better player. I think we're getting caught in love with Britt too much because he reminds us of Plax, when what we should really be doing is going out and getting the best WR, not the one who resembles Plax the most.

And you can't argue Nicks beastly ability after the catch. He schools Britt with that. Reese also likes Nicks the most, which is an indication to me at least that we're leaning that way.

And Reese knows his stuff.

What I love about Nicks is how he makes catching the ball look so easy. He's like Kevin Boss. His hands are so soft, and he can catch anything. He has great body balance, great vision, he's just a good player. If youre concerned about getting a guy who can catch anything his way, you want Nicks, not Britt. Nicks will catch anything. His hands are unreal.

scottyboy
04-05-2009, 11:20 AM
you know what, lets trade 45 and a 4th rounder for another low first, pick Nicks and Britt and have them and Smith and beat everyone

bigbluedefense
04-05-2009, 11:22 AM
you know what, lets trade 45 and a 4th rounder for another low first, pick Nicks and Britt and have them and Smith and beat everyone

im sooo down with that.


although my first dream would be to have Nicks and Oher, so we get our WR and LT who can actually handle a 1 on 1 matchup for a change.

But if no dice on Oher, im very open to landing Nicks and Britt.

Although I don't see how feasible it would be to have 2 rookie WRs starting. It would be nice for the long term though.

BaLLiN
04-05-2009, 12:28 PM
id like it if we traded back got Nicks or britt with those, and traded up with the saints using our 3rd or 4th that way we'd have:

2a. Britt
2b. Nicks
2c. ?
3
3 or 4th as our first 5 picks.

personllay though i like nicks better because i want to go for it all next year. If we traded for Braylon im almost certain a future 1st and our second would do it, maybe less.

Then we'd have braylon and nicks would most likely be available later in the 1st even if we traded back.

Number 10
04-05-2009, 02:46 PM
With regard to our WR position...my option A would be to trade for Edwards and my offer still stands. 2009 1st and 5th (ours) and performance based compensatory pick in 2010 that could be as low as a 6th, high as a 3rd.

But if we can't get a deal done, I have Britt slightly ahead of Nicks right now on my grading sheet. I'm planning on watching 2 more Rutgers games this week, so my final grade on Britt will be done then.

BaLLiN
04-05-2009, 07:13 PM
Since this was our offer and supposedly we are losing interest which sounds like a smoke screen to take away the desperation we have at WR especially with the release of plax although we pretty much knew he was going to be gone for at least half a season anyway. I think we will probably only go a little higher.

2(45), 5(151) = 481 (giants proposal)

2 (45), 5(151), Steve Smith/Kiwi (high second value= 560ish)=1,041 (what cleveland wants)

they are irrational, the most he will warrant is a 700 value with his inconsistancy with a pro bowl QB, his stupidity in running laps in socks and getting spiked by stallworth. They do not need to trade him immediately and with a good year his value could shoot up, but does it make sense to keep a player there when he doesnt seem to want to be there?

future first(600ish), 5th (31) = 631
they probably wont take this because they need to fill holes in WR, RB, OLB, and DB to compete next year. But thats what i feel his worth at this point.

Mr. Hero
04-05-2009, 11:20 PM
If we were to give them fair value for a WR with Braylon's ability it'll cost us our first, fourth and guy like Manningham/Hixon or a conditional future pick. But then again I think a similar package could get us Quan, who's a better receiver, leader and would be a better fit for our team.

bigbluedefense
04-06-2009, 09:27 AM
I don't see a deal getting done. The more likely scenario is we just get who we can on draft day.

Like I said before, because we won't have a true #1 WR heading into next year, I think its imperative that we leave this draft with one of the top LTs on the board.

A big reason why Diehl was able to work at LT was because we had Plax. That double team led to one less body coming after Eli. Now without Plax, even if we draft a WR, the same will happen.

So to counter that, we need an elite LT in pass protection who can give Eli that extra second he needs to get his passes off.

We need to be aggressive and nab a LT, then hope with our 1st that one of the WRs falls to us. I think either Nicks or Britt will be available to us at 29, so if we can package our other picks to move back into the 1st and nab a guy like Michael Oher, I'll be ecstatic.

Leaving this draft with Michael Oher and Hakeem Nicks would make my day.

Brad
04-06-2009, 01:03 PM
Maybe i'm beating a dead horse here but why does it seem like people haven't talked about us nabbing Heyward-bey or trading up for him?

Number 10
04-06-2009, 01:06 PM
I don't see a deal getting done. The more likely scenario is we just get who we can on draft day.

Like I said before, because we won't have a true #1 WR heading into next year, I think its imperative that we leave this draft with one of the top LTs on the board.

A big reason why Diehl was able to work at LT was because we had Plax. That double team led to one less body coming after Eli. Now without Plax, even if we draft a WR, the same will happen.

So to counter that, we need an elite LT in pass protection who can give Eli that extra second he needs to get his passes off.

We need to be aggressive and nab a LT, then hope with our 1st that one of the WRs falls to us. I think either Nicks or Britt will be available to us at 29, so if we can package our other picks to move back into the 1st and nab a guy like Michael Oher, I'll be ecstatic.

Leaving this draft with Michael Oher and Hakeem Nicks would make my day.

Fair points.

The more I finish my final grades, the more I think we should be more agressive than we have ever been on day one. I am not very big into trading up and I understand the concept of compiling young talent when you have a good coaching staff, but the way this class is going to pan out, I wouldn't mind seeing two agressive moves if we can't get Edwards.

For example...moving up from #29 to the late teens, early 20's would cost us our 3rd. If we do that, we could possibly get Oher before he reaches Philly.

Then if we wanted to grab a WR (Nicks, Britt) or LB in the mid to late 20's, we could trade up with both our 2nds and still have our 3rd round comp. pick.

BaLLiN
04-06-2009, 03:48 PM
Maybe i'm beating a dead horse here but why does it seem like people haven't talked about us nabbing Heyward-bey or trading up for him?

because he is more athlete than reciever, his highlights are some of the only times he caught the ball lol jk but he still isnt a reciever he's just a guy who uses speed to get open, wont work as much in the NFL.

I was pondering this, the Raiders are unhappy with Huff, i feel like huff would be great in our system as an FS and kenny as an SS although they are still interchangeable.

Huff is a CB/S tweener, which tells us he can pick up the slot, He did alot of flat coverage and blitzing in college and i see Michael Johnson doing that quite often. Why not trade for him with a 4th?

so far the two trades id like us to make are for Braylon and/or Huff, but at good value.

Braylon to me warrants a 1st, but id only give up a future first because we need to win this next year, instead give them saints second, our 5th, and then incentives for next year with the best possible being a 3rd and worst possible being a 4th. This way the browns get picks this year to help rebuild (they are pretty close to that) and depending on how braylon does a mid round pick.

1.(trade down to 2nd pick up late 3rd) Hakeem Nicks WR
2a. (Braylon)
2b. (trade up w/ 3rd) Duke Robinson OG
3a. Cody Brown SLB
3b. Terrence Taylor NT
3c. (traded)
4. (Huff)
5a. (Braylon)
5b. Ian Johnson RB
6. Ryan Purvis TE
7. Wopamo Osaisai CB

Nicks would be a great #2 or 3 option to pair with Braylon and Smith, Robinson is versatile can play G or RT which would be great for our run game, Brown would make an excellent ST and possibly future SLB, Taylor would be our only NT, Huff would florish in our defense IMO, Johnson could be a returnman but also insurance on BJ, Purvis is very underrated and a dual threat TE would tear it apart with Boss in 2 TE sets, Osaisai would be the perfect gunner, good toughness and great speed and agility.

If we're going to go for it all we need to draft players that can be excellent ST players as well as have the ability to contribute in their actual position.

Red= Pick
Blue= possible trade
Purple= FA acquisition

QB- Eli, Carr, Woodson
RB- earth, fire, water, wind(johnson)
FB- bushpenis
WR- Braylon, Smith, Nicks, Hixon, Mannigham, Moss
TE- Boss, Matthews, Purvis, Johnson
LT- Diehl, Whimper
LG- Seubert, Robinson, Koets
C- O'Hara, Ruegamer
RG- Snee, Robinson, Koets
RT- McKenzie, Robinson, Boothe, Koets

DE- Osi, Tuck, Kiwi, Canty
DT- Robbins, Canty, Coffield, Bernard, Alford, Taylor
WLB- Boley,Kehl,Wilkinson
MLB- Pierce, Blackburn, Goff, Clark
SLB-Blackburn, Clark, Brown, Kehl
CB- Webster, Ross, Thomas, Dockery, Osaisai
S-KP,MJ, HuffCC brown

P- Feagles
K- Tynes

Mr. Hero
04-07-2009, 05:02 AM
Thoughts on Connor Barwin? Certainly not in the first, but if he were say available at NO's pick? I mean he's got the type of work ethic and attitude that seems to fit this team to a T and he has exceptional athletic ability and potential, I think on this team he could develop into a great weapon for our D either as a DE or SLB.

bigbluedefense
04-07-2009, 09:00 AM
Maybe i'm beating a dead horse here but why does it seem like people haven't talked about us nabbing Heyward-bey or trading up for him?

Most of us are sour on him. Great potential, but he's just way too raw. He's an athlete playing WR, not a WR who's an athlete.

I see high bust potential with him personally.

bigbluedefense
04-07-2009, 09:01 AM
Fair points.

The more I finish my final grades, the more I think we should be more agressive than we have ever been on day one. I am not very big into trading up and I understand the concept of compiling young talent when you have a good coaching staff, but the way this class is going to pan out, I wouldn't mind seeing two agressive moves if we can't get Edwards.

For example...moving up from #29 to the late teens, early 20's would cost us our 3rd. If we do that, we could possibly get Oher before he reaches Philly.

Then if we wanted to grab a WR (Nicks, Britt) or LB in the mid to late 20's, we could trade up with both our 2nds and still have our 3rd round comp. pick.

The teams we have to fear for are the Jets, Ravens, and Dolphins. Those 3 teams potentially can draft Nicks or Britt or both before its our turn to pick.

Oher is a wild card. Im hoping he falls so we can move aggressively to get him, but part of me doesn't see him or Andre Smith getting out of the top 15 picks.

touchdownmaker
04-07-2009, 09:24 AM
Bigblue you are absolutely right about those teams. Thanks to the Cutler trade we could cross the bears off that list too. I think we could cross the Jets off that list if Freeman or Sanchez stay on the board when they get there. I am very sure that the Jets will pick Freeman provided that the Broncos do not leap frog them.

I think the Eagle would be a threat though If oher is off the board. I look at the Ravens spot a place where we could trade up to if they wanted to go Vontae Davis.

bigbluedefense
04-07-2009, 11:34 AM
Bigblue you are absolutely right about those teams. Thanks to the Cutler trade we could cross the bears off that list too. I think we could cross the Jets off that list if Freeman or Sanchez stay on the board when they get there. I am very sure that the Jets will pick Freeman provided that the Broncos do not leap frog them.

I think the Eagle would be a threat though If oher is off the board. I look at the Ravens spot a place where we could trade up to if they wanted to go Vontae Davis.

Im hoping the Ravens fall in love with the potential deep ball ability of DHB with Flacco and take him.

I just don't see the Eagles drafting a WR. its not Andy Reid's nature to do that. I think we have to be careful and move up to take Oher ahead of the Eagles if he starts falling. The Eagles would definitely go after the big uglies.



Hopefully like you said, Sanchez falls so the Jets take him.

That only leaves Miami. Now I know a lot of mockers have them pegged to take a WR, but its just not Parcell's style, plus they have a glaring need at rushbacker, and Sparano is very comfortable with his current WR core.

Theyre also high on Brandon London (great...).

So if the Ravens take DHB, the Jets pass on WR, and the Dolphins draft a pass rusher, we're looking pretty good.

Geo
04-07-2009, 11:42 AM
I really wonder if Tuna takes a WR when there will be some really good LB prospects there. My guess is no, he goes LB.

Then again his starting three is Ginn, Camarillo, and Bess. Yuck.

Crickett
04-07-2009, 11:53 AM
Hopefully like you said, Sanchez falls so the Jets take him.

Yes, and then hopefully they'll go DE and RB in rounds 2 and 3 so that after Sanchez fails in the one opportunity Jets QB's get before they're replaced, they take another one in the first round in 2011 or 2012. :mad:

bigbluedefense
04-07-2009, 11:56 AM
I really wonder if Tuna takes a WR when there will be some really good LB prospects there. My guess is no, he goes LB.

Then again his starting three is Ginn, Camarillo, and Bess. Yuck.

I like Camarillo. We'll never know what Ginn is capable of until Chad is out of Miami, although I don't ever see him amounting to a big time WR.

London has potential. He just has to work on his route running.

I think with the style of 3-4 Parcells runs, he needs to have bookend pass rushers. He likes his front 3, but with Porter only getting older, and nothing else to even sneeze at at rushbacker, he needs one in the worst way.

I think he'd love Clay Matthews at SAM.

bigbluedefense
04-07-2009, 11:57 AM
Yes, and then hopefully they'll go DE and RB in rounds 2 and 3 so that after Sanchez fails in the one opportunity Jets QB's get before they're replaced, they take another one in the first round in 2011 or 2012. :mad:

pretty much yeah. haha.

Malaka
04-07-2009, 12:00 PM
Parcells will definitely take Matthews if he is there, he just screams Parcells player, and if not him Brian Cushing if he's there.

He has a problem many GMs love to be in, he has so many options and his biggest needs happen to both have great talent at where he is picking, at WR their is DHB, Harvin, Nicks, and Britt in that area, and at OLB there is Cushing, Matthews, Barwin, and Sintim.

I just don't see Parcells taking a WR in round 1, but I can see him taking Barden in round 2.

Also, Camarillo is a good #2 and a great slot man, and Bess is a good slot man, as for Ginn well I think he's best suited to be a #2 in the league, but with Chad Pennington in Miami he won't ever be as good as he can be. Brandon London also does have some potential.

bigbluedefense
04-07-2009, 06:01 PM
Dammit! Britt or Nicks? I can't choose. The more I see of each of them, the more I flip flop.

Britt will be the better deep threat, but Nicks hands, YAC, and clutchness are so hard to pass up on. Theyre equal redzone threats. Nicks has better body, sideline, and first down awareness.

Im starting to take Scottyboy's stance and say screw it, get both of them. Send Britt deep, send Nicks across the field.

Done and done.

Thats of course, if Michael Oher is gonezo.

BaLLiN
04-07-2009, 06:29 PM
Dammit! Britt or Nicks? I can't choose. The more I see of each of them, the more I flip flop.

Britt will be the better deep threat, but Nicks hands, YAC, and clutchness are so hard to pass up on. Theyre equal redzone threats. Nicks has better body, sideline, and first down awareness.

Im starting to take Scottyboy's stance and say screw it, get both of them. Send Britt deep, send Nicks across the field.

Done and done.

Thats of course, if Michael Oher is gonezo.

i would in no way feel comfortable with two rookies on the field.

and the moore i see nicks the more i see Dwayne Bowe, and seriously, why would we not want a Dwayne Bowe, he is the perfect #2 reciever to me.

Britt troubles me because he could be good, but i dont see him as much more than a player who just catches the ball as appose to one who catches it and runs. He has potential though and had a horrible QB.

Braylon i really want because i could see Eli doing very well with him, better than with Plax. And then Nicks would be a good compliment.

if we could provide Eli with at least 2 good recievers that would be tremendous.

Most people are underestimating Smith's ability to play on the outside, i would not rule it out although he is best in slot. He is fast and quick enough to work the edge, height is his only problem.

touchdownmaker
04-08-2009, 09:01 AM
I am sure you have heard by now. The reports that I have been waiting to hear have finally started to roll in. It seems that the G-men have unofficially agreed to a 1st and a 5th pick for Braylon. If Reese pulls this off I would be amazed. Forget George Young, forget Accorsi, Jerry Reese would be the best GM the G-men have ever had.

Trade up in the second and get Nicks too.

touchdownmaker
04-08-2009, 12:07 PM
I am the Ass-hole.

It seems the rumors have no substance.

BaLLiN
04-08-2009, 04:16 PM
I am sure you have heard by now. The reports that I have been waiting to hear have finally started to roll in. It seems that the G-men have unofficially agreed to a 1st and a 5th pick for Braylon. If Reese pulls this off I would be amazed. Forget George Young, forget Accorsi, Jerry Reese would be the best GM the G-men have ever had.

Trade up in the second and get Nicks too.

i wish that would be true, its exactly what i predicted we'd offer, but i feel like a conditional pick next year is the only thing that will do it along with the first

bigbluedefense
04-10-2009, 06:02 PM
Call me crazy, but Im starting to think its more important for us to nab a left tackle than it is getting a WR.

The more I look back at those last 6 games of the season, the more I see the root of the problem being pass protection. In particular, both our Tackles, but primarily David Diehl.


Now what if, we ignore WR and just go with our youth. And instead of nabbing a WR, we go after Oher in the 1st with an aggressive trade, and Loadholt in the 2nd with NO's pick?

Now you have a long term answer to McKenzie on the right side for the long term future, a roadgrader who would beast it at RT, and you have a LT who can finally give Eli some proper pass protection.

Now those blitzes won't work as effectively.


I love Britt and Nicks. But I wouldn't be shocked or upset if the Giants ignored WR altogether for the right players.

Look, our WR core may be young and inexperienced, but its actually not that bad. Hixon can be a solid #2 WR, he's just not a #1. Smith is a great slot WR.

Our fate if we go that route would ultimately depend on Mario Manningham. And while I have reservations myself, it shouldn't be ignored that the organization is very very high on him. They see him practice, they see him study, they see him in the offseason. We don't. So if Reese passes up on talent bc of what he sees in Super Mario, I'll take his word for it.


Its just something to think about. I think a LT would do us just as much good, if not more good for our offense both for the short term and long term future.

BaLLiN
04-10-2009, 09:54 PM
i dont see any of the tackles getting past the Redskins, if they did id be all for it, it would improve our run game and keep manning healthy two things that we would love.

IMO though we still need a #1, Plax's absense showed we dont have anyone that makes opposing defenses crap themselves in the passing game.

Best scenario is that we trade a future first(i think id be considered to be more valuable just because we're already late in the first) and a 4th from next year (incentives)

1. (prob trade our late 2nd and 4th to trade with Saints) Andre Smith
i dont think Oher would be the one to fall, he cares about the game and has alot of upside, Smith is probably 2nd best maybe 1st OT but has poor attitude. If Skins were to pass we'd pull the trigger and pull ahead of chargers and eagles, plus Saints could fill more of what they want at our pick losing less value.

2.Clint Sintim
id rather trade up for nicks, but i feel this is needed.

3a. Michael Hamlin

3b. Terrance Taylor

5a. Jared Dillard

5b. Ryan Purvis

6. Ian Johnson

7. Wopamo Osaisai

Go_Eli
04-11-2009, 11:18 AM
Redskins going tackle? But that makes sense - they won't do that.

Kase1
04-11-2009, 11:29 AM
I am the Ass-hole.

It seems the rumors have no substance.

LOL I was goin nuts the other nite over on the Giants boards (boards.giants.com) when we heard that rumor

Kase1
04-11-2009, 11:38 AM
I dunno im just not a Sintim fan, he seems like a straight up, stand up pass rujshing DE aka an outside 3-4 LB which is what we dont need at this point

BaLLiN
04-11-2009, 01:08 PM
I dunno im just not a Sintim fan, he seems like a straight up, stand up pass rujshing DE aka an outside 3-4 LB which is what we dont need at this point

technically he is that plus coverage, which is what Kiwi is just with better understanding of the position, Id still like to keep Kiwi there because he certainly has the athleticism to stand up.

Mr. Hero
04-11-2009, 09:52 PM
No, at this point I just want kiwi playing DE, if we want a DE/OLB tweener to start at SLB for us there'll be plentyof guys in this draft capable of getting there. Let kiwi get back to DE size and let's be giddy about a beastly three DE rotation.

BaLLiN
04-11-2009, 10:10 PM
No, at this point I just want kiwi playing DE, if we want a DE/OLB tweener to start at SLB for us there'll be plentyof guys in this draft capable of getting there. Let kiwi get back to DE size and let's be giddy about a beastly three DE rotation.

thats such a waste of his talents though, im all for a great rotation but id rather keep him on the field honestly.

Big_Pete
04-12-2009, 08:10 AM
Thoughts on Connor Barwin? Certainly not in the first, but if he were say available at NO's pick? I mean he's got the type of work ethic and attitude that seems to fit this team to a T and he has exceptional athletic ability and potential, I think on this team he could develop into a great weapon for our D either as a DE or SLB.

I actually think Barwin is the type of LB the front office are looking for

Barwin adds speed, athleticism and coverage skills the Giants need at LB. He is raw and will take time to develop, but will also impact on special teams right away. I really think Barwin is a possible probowl SLB. Adding him outside of our Dline would be particularly nasty.

It would likely mean that Blackburn, Clark or Wilkinson will miss out on a roster spot. I know alot of people like Clark, Wilkinson and Blackburn, but I think they have shown they are solid at best and have some limitations. I think the front office will try and upgrade if at all possible.


The Giants LB group would be something like

SLB (3): Kehl, Barwin, DeOssie*

MLB (2): Pierce, Goff

WLB (3): Boley, Clark/Wilkinson/Blackburn

*DeOssie will get a roster spot on special teams play alone (instead of a traditional lomg snapper)

bigbluedefense
04-12-2009, 10:51 AM
I'll be shocked if we go after Sintim, or Barwin, or any of those types of DEs. The Kiwi experiment was just that, an experiment. Our defense thrived when he wasn't playing SAM.

And don't forget, Spags isn't our DC anymore. Who's to say that Sheridan wants the same type of hybrid at SAM? I doubt it.

We're much better off playing Boley and Kehl on the outside, and hoping Pierce tears an ACL so we can have a MIKE on the inside who can do something other than line guys up.


If theres a DE in round 2 that I want us to go after, its Paul Kruger. I love Kruger. And Id want him just as a rotational DE, not a project SAM. He could be Kiwi's replacement when his contract is up, bc I highly doubt we resign Kiwi after his rookie contract, unless Osi's career is done, which I doubt.

I much rather go after offensive line help though. We need 2 OTs, and a backup C.

bigbluedefense
04-12-2009, 11:01 AM
On a side note, Brian Robiskie is growing on me.

We know Reese loves nabbing talent from big schools in the 1st couple of rounds, don't be surprised if we pass up on small school talents like Britt and Nicks for a guy like Robiskie.

Although I rather have Britt or Nicks.

BaLLiN
04-12-2009, 08:15 PM
I honestly would just like to keep blackburn at SLB, i know he's not really athletic but honestly he plays hardnosed football at the linebacker position and i dont think we've had that for awhile.

And also if we actually had any big DTs our LBs would be able to make more plays, having two pass rush DTs has been killing us for the past two years.

1(trade for braylon)
2a.(trade up w/4th) hakeem nicks
2b.Troy Kropog
3a. Ron Brace

Number 10
04-12-2009, 09:57 PM
I'll be shocked if we go after Sintim, or Barwin, or any of those types of DEs. The Kiwi experiment was just that, an experiment. Our defense thrived when he wasn't playing SAM.

And don't forget, Spags isn't our DC anymore. Who's to say that Sheridan wants the same type of hybrid at SAM? I doubt it.

We're much better off playing Boley and Kehl on the outside, and hoping Pierce tears an ACL so we can have a MIKE on the inside who can do something other than line guys up.


If theres a DE in round 2 that I want us to go after, its Paul Kruger. I love Kruger. And Id want him just as a rotational DE, not a project SAM. He could be Kiwi's replacement when his contract is up, bc I highly doubt we resign Kiwi after his rookie contract, unless Osi's career is done, which I doubt.

I much rather go after offensive line help though. We need 2 OTs, and a backup C.

I'm still trying to figure Kruger out.

Is he Tollefson? Or is he Vanden Bosch? He looks like a high motor terror one play, then looks like an overmatched, unathletic non-factor the next. He didn't show me enough to warrant a top 100 pick.

bigbluedefense
04-13-2009, 12:22 PM
I'm still trying to figure Kruger out.

Is he Tollefson? Or is he Vanden Bosch? He looks like a high motor terror one play, then looks like an overmatched, unathletic non-factor the next. He didn't show me enough to warrant a top 100 pick.

his issue is he lacks the strength to be a consistent rusher. similar issue to Kiwi actually.

if he hits the weight room he'll be fine. unless teams feel he's already maxed out his potential physically. i think we'd turn him into a player though. he has the speed, motor, hand use, and recognition needed to succeed. with 10 lbs and good conditioning, he'll be a player in this league.

i heard he's panning out to be a 3rd round pick. if he's there in round 3, i think its a no brainer for us.

AdamKiperJr
04-14-2009, 12:30 AM
Blue= my top prospect in the position

1. DT Terrance Taylor
2. OL Phil Loadholt
3. CB Vontae Davis S William Moore/Courtney Greene
4. DE Greg Hardy
5. RB Chris Wells
6. OLB Marcus Freeman MLB Rey Maulaluga
7. TE Jared Cook

Big Board:
1: Terrance Taylor
2: Chris Wells
3: Vontae Davis
4. Phil Loadholt


ehhh...think we need a new QB Nate Davis maybe even Michael Vick

AdamKiperJr
04-14-2009, 12:34 AM
< 333333333333333

BaLLiN
04-14-2009, 11:03 AM
greg hardy isnt even in the draft dude; edit: and i didnt even say that; edit: yes i did a looong time ago

LTgiants
04-14-2009, 11:13 AM
greg hardy isnt even in the draft dude; edit: and i didnt even say that

he quoted you from the first page

BaLLiN
04-14-2009, 11:28 AM
he quoted you from the first page

lol thats like half a year ago

LTgiants
04-14-2009, 11:38 AM
lol thats like half a year ago

lol I know but you still said it

BaLLiN
04-14-2009, 11:42 AM
lol I know but you still said it

my bad, i shouldve remembered lol

LTgiants
04-14-2009, 11:49 AM
my bad, i shouldve remembered lol

lolhttp://draftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

BaLLiN
04-16-2009, 05:27 PM
what if we traded up for malcolm jenkins to play FS? assuming Braylon trade goes through as 2nd and 4th along with comp next year

1. Malcolm Jenkins (trade 3rd and 5th)
2b. Duke Robinson
3b. Terrence Taylor
5. Marko Mitchell
6. Ian Johnson
7. Wopamo Osaisai

defensively we didnt fill SLB but i dont see many great ones in this draft, especially fit for us.

offensively we dont fill the need of LT or TE but I think Whimper is still in the picture, besides RT is a bigger need and Duke can offer versatility. TE is a minor need and Kevin Boss is a viable starter behind him Darcy Johnson and Matthews are decent, we dont use TE's much anyway.

bigbluedefense
04-17-2009, 09:18 AM
A couple of names I want to throw out there that I like that I might not have mentioned before

Shawn Nelson - TE
Eric Wood - C
Marcus Freeman - WILL
Fili Moala - DT
Larry English - DE
Tyson Jackson - DE
Alphonso Smith - CB
Peria Jerry - DT
Jasper Brinkley - ILB

theres obviously a bunch of names im either forgetting, excluding bc i don't see a realistic shot of us getting them, or have already mentioned a few times.

I like Moala as a mid round guy, love his potential and while I think his best fit is 3-4 DE, I think we can make him into a gamer with our dline coach. His problems are motor and technique. Wauffle will easily fix technique, and motor won't be an issue in a rotation.

I LOVE larry english. reminds me of woodley.

Alphonso Smith is a nasty physical guy with decent speed on him. I like the way he plays the game, and would be a good nickel/dime guy and replacement for Dockery.

Shawn Nelson would pare up nicely with Boss. Peria Jerry is the most underrated player in this draft (at least among draftniks).

scottyboy
04-17-2009, 09:23 AM
I want Cornelius Ingram. I think he'd be a GREAT recieving compliment to Boss as our 2nd TE (assuming we don't trade for Gonzo of course!)

bigbluedefense
04-17-2009, 09:28 AM
I want Cornelius Ingram. I think he'd be a GREAT recieving compliment to Boss as our 2nd TE (assuming we don't trade for Gonzo of course!)

I like him as well. I just like Shawn Nelson a little more. If both are on the board and we choose Ingram over Nelson, I'll disagree with that. But wouldn't mind either of them.

Nelson offers more potential as a run blocker and is a little faster.

Personally, I see Boss having a big year 3. I think he's developing very nicely. He's only scratching the surface of what he's capable of.

BaLLiN
04-17-2009, 11:04 AM
BBD i like Alphonso smith alot, i completely ruled us drafting him out, but would we?

id be BPA, but i like him, he does remind me of a better Kevin Dockery, techniquewise, sizewise, how he can keep with WRs bigger than him and do decently, he's a much better overall player (same in run support which very good), better ball skills, and his instincts are equal if not better to malcolm jenkins.

I feel Ross is better at nickel, but he still can improve to the guy we wanted him to be.

scottyboy
04-17-2009, 11:43 AM
I like him as well. I just like Shawn Nelson a little more. If both are on the board and we choose Ingram over Nelson, I'll disagree with that. But wouldn't mind either of them.

Nelson offers more potential as a run blocker and is a little faster.

Personally, I see Boss having a big year 3. I think he's developing very nicely. He's only scratching the surface of what he's capable of.

totally agree, but I think we may be able to nab Ingram in the 3rd while Nelson would be a 2nd rounder.

I also expect big things from Boss and LOOOOVE Smith, he'd be awesome, but we'd probably only take him as BPA

bigbluedefense
04-17-2009, 11:56 AM
The players I mentioned are really just guys that I like, not necessarily guys I want us to get. Id love any of them for the right value of course. Like Smith for example, if the guy is there in the 3rd or 4th, i wouldn't mind him if he was our pick.

Those are just some random names of guys that I like as players, moreso than guys I want us to specifically target.

Ross can't be a nickel CB. he doesn't have the hips to play the slot. unless we move Webster to slot on passing downs and have Ross play outside. Thats assuming also that TT outperforms him and wins the #2 spot, which is no guarantee either.

bigbluedefense
04-18-2009, 10:18 AM
-Include me in the Percy Harvin bandwagon. His character concerns me, but I think with a creative offensive mind, this guy can be a mix of Wes Welker and Reggie Bush. He's not a #1 type of guy, never will be, but imagine throwing this guy in the slot, running screens with him and crossing routes like Welker, or even have him line up in the backfield on spread sets.

He's dynamic, and if we didn't have such a moron as our OC, i wouldn't mind him at all if he fell at 29.

-Im also high on Larry English. Initially I didn't like him, but after looking closer, I think he's going to be a very good player in this league. He might be better off as a 3-4 rushbacker, but i love his nastiness, and strength.

With Kiwi's contract coming up soon, I wouldn't mind nabbing English. We are most likely not resigning Kiwanuka.

-Hate Aaron Maybin.

-Ive changed my mind about William Beatty. Put me on his bandwagon. He's a guy who will pay dividends in 2010 though, not 2009.

-Everette Brown is another guy I think people are sleeping on. I here mixed opinions on his value, but if he's there, its something to think about. He reminds me of Dwight Freeney.

-Something to think about. What if we don't get Braylon, and Kenny Britt is off the board. Now we have options. We can potentially nab Clay Matthews at 29 if he's still on the board, play him at SAM, and then hope Hakeem Nicks is there at 48. Or trade into the 2nd, and nab 3 quality 2nd round guys.

Malaka
04-18-2009, 10:53 AM
I think we should still take Nicks at 29. if Britt isn't there, I highly doubt he'd last to 48.

touchdownmaker
04-18-2009, 06:30 PM
I am pretty sure that Clay Mathews will not make through to the G-men. I also think that the Texans will nab him.

BaLLiN
04-18-2009, 08:33 PM
best situation possible

trade for braylon with 2nd, 4th, and conditional in 2010

1. (trade away 3rd and 5th to broncos) Michael Oher
reasoning: the value is a little off, but Jackson probably wont be there, there are no ends for 3-4 available and a LB for 3-4 can be had later in the draft.

2. Duke Robinson/Troy Kropog
chances are one of them will be there, Duke can play RT or guard, the versatility is there. Kropog could play either RT or be an LT down the line.

3. Terrence Taylor
NT and a guy that can free up our pass rushers to get to the QB, we allow a passrush and the our defense gets better, he also is a heck of a run defender.

5. Frantz Joseph
tough physical guy, played inside, but would probably be best at SAM.

6. Ryan Purvis
dual threat TE, not the passing TE that alot of people want, but helps both the run game and pass game.

7. Trimane Goddard/Wopamo Osaisai/Troy Nolan
Goddard and Nolan both made alot of plays are only missing one or two things essentially in their game, all have good physical attributes, which could help improve our special teams

OSUGiants17
04-18-2009, 09:18 PM
I think we should still take Nicks at 29. if Britt isn't there, I highly doubt he'd last to 48.
Here is my BB
1. Edwards
2. Britt
2. Nicks

Malaka
04-18-2009, 09:25 PM
Here is my BB
1. Edwards
2. Britt
2. Nicks

Exactly the same thing going through my mind right now. JR get the Braylon trade done!!!!

Even if he doesn't I am 99% sure that we will be leaving draft day with either Britt or Nicks.

BaLLiN
04-19-2009, 10:41 AM
ok so i was watching alot of tape, and i really think alot of CBs are underrated, and alot of them mostly because they are tweeners.

Alphonso Smith-NB prospect
Jarius Byrd- FS prospect
Mike Mickens- starter prospect
Troy Nolan- ST/S prospect
Wopamo Osaisai- ST/Dime/Nickel Corner prospect

Also when i look at RBs i think we need to get one if we dont target Percy Harvin, if we take harvin and trade for Braylon i think we fill both WR and RB needs.

scottyboy
04-19-2009, 10:51 AM
here's just a litte summary of what I think of the draft. posted it on another site. You guys know most of my stances on players and such, but just thought I'd share. Breaking it down in 3 parts: Offensive Skill players, the Trenches, Back 7/ST. Enjoy boys!

QB: let’s be honest, with Eli as our franchise, young, Super-Bowl winning QB, David Carr is the vet backup, and Andre’ Woodson is our young project late rounder from last year. Giants won’t be taking a QB. (if you want my take on the QB’s, just ask)

RB: This is an interesting position for us. Many believe Ware will be the next Ward/Grant. While this may be true, I’m still a little nervous. Let’s face it, Jacobs in most likelihood will get injured, which would leave us with Bradshaw and Ware. I don’t know about you, but I’m not too comfortable with just that. Now while signing a vet would be nice, I wouldn’t rule out using a fairly high pick on a RB. We could grab someone like Donald Brown with 45, or we could ignore RB until later in the 2nd or 3rd with a Shonn Greene, Rashad Jennings, Andre Brown or Javon Ringer. Mid-round guys such as UVA’s Pearman, Oregon’s Jeremiah Johnson(who I love as a sleeper) and Bama’s tough runner Coffee are other options. This is a very intriguing spot for us. We all know about Beanie who’ll be long gone by 29, BUT, I wouldn’t completely rule out Knowshon if he free falls like some think he may, at 29. If he’s BPA, I wouldn’t put it past Reese to nab him(or trade down to a RB hungry team)


FB: We’ve got Hedgecock. Young, excellent blocker. We’re fine here, no need.


WR: Ah yes, our biggest hole which has stirred many a debate amongst Giants fans. Britt or Nicks? Robiske? Braylon? Where do we go? Nicks is a very solid choice, but I see limited upside in him. He’ll be an outstanding #2 with some #1 potential. OUTSTANDING hands and great body control. Very good after the catch, but isn’t explosive down field. I’ve seen Boldin comparisons, which I can see as a best case scenario. Britt on the other hand, is a bigger WR with much more potential and down the field threat. He loves to block and be physical. One knock on Nicks is what I’ve seen from him is he’s not as physical in the run blocking as he should be. Doesn’t block all out every play like Britt who just LOVES laying the lumber on a DB. It’s a toss up, 2 very interesting pick choices for us at 29 and MAYBE, depending on the draft, 45. If one falls, I wouldn’t put it past us to use one of our 10 total picks(really 9 after) to move up a bit in the 2nd from 45 to snag one of these guys. Robiskie is a guy who’s growing on me big time. However, he’s JUST like our Steve Smith, which isn’t what we really need. I wouldn’t mind him at all however, and wouldn’t put it past Reese to pick the polished big school player.
DHB is a big boom-or-bust type of player who I feel won’t reach 29. Crabtree and Maclin will both obviously be gone, and it’d take WAY, WAY too much to trade up for either of them. DHB, maybe, but I doubt we’d trade up for him. I wanna stay away from Harvin, unless it’s at 45, or even 60. His character concerns scare me, as does his ‘tweener status and Killdrive’s inability to use small, shifty WR’s.
Later choices are the internet hyped Ramses Barden who’s getting too much love now because of his size, but still wouldn’t be a bad 3rd round pick. LSU’s Demetrius Byrd is another guy I’d look at around round 4 or 5 and a favorite of mine is Oregon State’s Sammie Stroughter. Quick shifty guy, who I think will do well in the NFL. A guy the Giants may look at is the bigger 6’2 Dominque Edison from SF Austin. He’s a game who’s got great size and speed. He’d be a nice 7th round guy to work with.


TE: This is a TE heavy draft for rounds 2-4. Bunch of great receiving TE’s to help Eli with more weapons and compliment Boss nicely. Pettigrew is the most highly touted TE in this class, although he’s getting to be VERY over-rated. He’s a late 1st-2nd round guy who’ll get picked much earlier. He shouldn’t even be on our map. Guys like James Casey from Rice, Wisconsin’s Beckum, UF’s Ingram and Mizzou’s Coffman are nice receiving options in this area. Shawn Nelson and Cook will probably go early in the 2nd, and could be viable options at pick 45. A sleeper of mine is Cal’s Cameron Morrah. A big target with soft hands could be an option come round 5 or so. Another guy CLIMBING boards fast is Anthony Hill from NCST. He could go sometime in round 3.

Number 10
04-19-2009, 10:51 AM
ok so i was watching alot of tape, and i really think alot of CBs are underrated, and alot of them mostly because they are tweeners.

Alphonso Smith-NB prospect
Jarius Byrd- FS prospect
Mike Mickens- starter prospect
Troy Nolan- ST/S prospect
Wopamo Osaisai- ST/Dime/Nickel Corner prospect

Also when i look at RBs i think we need to get one if we dont target Percy Harvin, if we take harvin and trade for Braylon i think we fill both WR and RB needs.

Harvin is a 3rd round prospect now. For the Giants anyway.

BaLLiN
04-19-2009, 12:06 PM
Harvin is a 3rd round prospect now. For the Giants anyway.

not even at 60? he's young and talented, a bit dumb, but with what he can do i think 60 he's more than worth it

bigbluedefense
04-19-2009, 12:32 PM
I know Ive probably been beating a dead horse with this but we need a kicker dammit.

Id spend a 5th or 6th on Gano. Then we can dump Tynes.

Malaka
04-19-2009, 01:08 PM
I know Ive probably been beating a dead horse with this but we need a kicker dammit.

Id spend a 5th or 6th on Gano. Then we can dump Tynes.

QFT, Tynes is garbage, I love Gano.

We replace one Scotsman for another Scotsman.

Number 10
04-19-2009, 03:14 PM
not even at 60? he's young and talented, a bit dumb, but with what he can do i think 60 he's more than worth it

He is a lot more than a bit dumb. Mario Manningham type situation here.

BaLLiN
04-19-2009, 06:25 PM
He is a lot more than a bit dumb. Mario Manningham type situation here.

nooo, thats impossible, Percy can actually form a sentence

bigbluedefense
04-19-2009, 07:23 PM
Thoughts on Louis Delmas?

While I doubt we draft him, what if he's BPA on the board in either round 1 or 2? Do we go after him?

One of my concerns of Phillips this past year was he slightly hesitated before reacting. That slight hesitation led to him being not as effective in the run game as he should be (which is why he isn't better suited to play SS), and not as great of a ballhawk as he should be which led to not many INTs.

If he can grow more confident and just react to what he sees, he'll be a PB player. But if he continues to hesitate, he'll be a solid but not spectacular player. He has the tools, he just has to put it together. I do seem him having a killer year for the record.

But back to Delmas, his best attribute is his Bob Sanders like reaction in the run game. He shoots down the field like a missle and just slams the RB. Pairing him up with Phillips would make our safety duo deadly, and very tough to to throw on 3rd down when we play 2 deep safety.

We all know Michael Johnson takes poor angles in the run game, so I don't like him as a SS, and until Phillips shows more awareness, I don't like him at SS either.

People underestimate how well Butler played last year. I know that sounds odd, but Butler was great against the run, and made the right reads as deep safety in the pass game. His problem was he has the mobility of a cement block.

Number 10
04-19-2009, 07:56 PM
I have Delmas in my top 30, but I doubt he'll be BPA when we get on the clock at 29. I actually think Patrick Chung would be a perfect fit for this defense.

But there are a few safeties that we will look at later. If we with one at 45, fine. But I doubt 29 is a spot where we go after one.

DI
04-20-2009, 10:38 AM
Delmas is my favorite safety prospect in this draft and I think would be a great selection for us, but it would have to come in Round 2 because of the obvious Braylon trade or just the dire need to draft a Wide Receiver

Malaka
04-20-2009, 03:05 PM
I have Delmas in my top 30, but I doubt he'll be BPA when we get on the clock at 29. I actually think Patrick Chung would be a perfect fit for this defense.

But there are a few safeties that we will look at later. If we with one at 45, fine. But I doubt 29 is a spot where we go after one.

I would love to pick up Patrick Chung at 45.

29. Kenny Britt
45. Patrick Chung

would make me a very happy man.

BaLLiN
04-20-2009, 07:47 PM
If chung were available at 60 id take him, not at 45

bigbluedefense
04-21-2009, 12:48 PM
I like Chung, but to me he's a 3rd round prospect. I wouldn't reach for him in round 2 with so many better BPAs on the board.


The 2nd round in this year's draft is just as talented as the first round. There really isn't much separating the talent between the rounds this year.

Its almost a better idea to trade back and stockpile more round 2 picks. The Patriots are going to have a great draft with all those round 2 picks if they play their cards right.

BaLLiN
04-21-2009, 05:24 PM
and comparing him to Michael Johnson, they are very similar, Michael Johnson didnt weigh enough in college, but now he's up to a good weight. I wouldnt want to draft a guy who is almost the same player, especially that early.

BaLLiN
04-21-2009, 05:26 PM
and after watching Nicks and Britt again, i feel like they really are the same valuewise again, but for us Britt is higher because he fits what we want/need to replace in Plax.

Nicks is a flashy guy with his YAC and great hands, i would love to have one and the suggested both now really doesnt seem that bad although i wouldnt be confident in starting them and that would really defeat the purpose of drafting Super Mario last year.

Kase1
04-21-2009, 06:01 PM
QFT, Tynes is garbage, I love Gano.

We replace one Scotsman for another Scotsman.

What about Jose Martinez???

OSUGiants17
04-21-2009, 07:15 PM
we better get one or both of the men in my sig

Geo
04-21-2009, 07:17 PM
I'd rather have Britt, personally.

BaLLiN
04-21-2009, 07:26 PM
we better get one or both of the men in my sig

I'd rather have Britt, personally.

yeah right now im sortof leaning towards that :/ i still really like braylon, and if he could do anything like what he did to us on that monday night game he'll be absolutely dirty.

But Britt could be coached up, i like the fact that he's a hometown guy and embodies what we need and can afford.

DI
04-21-2009, 07:50 PM
From Toddy McShay's Updated Mock, He Has Us Selecting:

1. Hakeem Nicks, Wide Receiver, North Carolina
2. Clint Sintim, Outside Linebacker, Virginia
2. Andre Brown, Running Back, North Carolina State
3. Chase Coffman, Tight End, Missouri
3. Antoine Caldwell, Center, Alabama
4. Emmauel Cook, Safety, South Carolina
5. Jason Watkins, Offensive Tackle, Florida
5. Ashlee Palmer, Outside Linebacker, Mississippi
6. Don Carey, Cornerback, Norforlk St.
7. Chris Baker, Defensive Tackle, Hampton

What You Think? Honestly, I'm iffy with this draft class as I have no idea who Ashlee Palmer and Don Carey and I'm not too high on wasting a Top 3 round pick on a tight end. Also, was quite shocked to see he had what seems to be the next receiver after Britt that we as Giant fans fell in love with, Ramses Barden, falling to the beginning of the 6th round.. Thoughts?

touchdownmaker
04-21-2009, 08:27 PM
I love how the Braylon trade is starting to become a foregone conclusion. I can't wait to hear the commish say "the Giants trade their 1st and their 4th round picks to the Cleveland Browns for Braylon Edwards."

I have been reading that the Giants are trying to hold on to their 1st round pick. If they can get away with that, then just wow.

Lets not kid ourselves guys. Will not go far with a rookie WR, and the corps we already have.

hugegmenfan
04-21-2009, 10:32 PM
I love how the Braylon trade is starting to become a foregone conclusion. I can't wait to hear the commish say "the Giants trade their 1st and their 4th round picks to the Cleveland Browns for Braylon Edwards."

I have been reading that the Giants are trying to hold on to their 1st round pick. If they can get away with that, then just wow.

Lets not kid ourselves guys. Will not go far with a rookie WR, and the corps we already have.

i think jerry reese is only saying that we will not give up a 1st round pick to keep us from seeming desperate. We are a championship caliber team and Edwards if he plays up to his potential will get us to the top and he knows it. Giving up a first and like a 4th round pick is chump change in my opinion. Hakeem Nicks and Kenny Britt could very well turn into studs but we are a team that has the pieces in place now and rookie WRs rarely have an impact

hugegmenfan
04-22-2009, 01:43 PM
According to ESPN the browns wanted Matthias Kiwanuka and a 1st round pick and Reese is only offering a 2nd a 5th round pick

The negotiations between the two teams are very interesting. The browns are not desperate to trade Braylon and the Giants are not desperate for him and are really their only realistic trade partner and Reese knows it.

I think it happens on draft day and we unload our 1st, 3rd and like a conditional pick in next years draft and i would be totally fine with that

skiinginNJ
04-25-2009, 12:12 AM
im pretty excited for tomorrow, our staff has done such a tremendous job with the past couple of drafts you almost cant doubt them right now

Mr. Hero
04-25-2009, 02:25 AM
Here's my guess for the draft barring a trade for a vet.

Nicks
Delmas/Moore
Barden
Cadogan/Lang/Kropog/Vollmer
Cornelius Lewis
Shipley
Jason Phillips
Lee Robinson
Graham Gano
Jamall Lee

BaLLiN
04-25-2009, 05:45 AM
i hope we're not drafting Robiskie, in the end i think its Britt or Braylon. And if we trade up for a high value prospect Nicks might be available near 45

OSUGiants17
04-25-2009, 11:31 AM
I can guarantee that our starting WR next year will have a last or first name that starts with the letter B, whether it be braylon, Britt or Bey

hugegmenfan
04-25-2009, 02:48 PM
I still think the Giants and Browns will make a deal with Edwards. I think the both will compromise a little bit because BOTH teams want this done. Edwards has no intention of resigning with Cleveland, is unhappy and i think they want to complete their start over (trading winslow).


I think it will happen- Reese is a smart guy. He could not be confident in having Steve Smith, Hixon, and like Britt or Nicks as our WR corp.

hugegmenfan
04-25-2009, 06:15 PM
Well i was wrong about Edwards haha, but Im happy with Nicks, solid pick

CJSchneider
04-25-2009, 06:18 PM
#29 Giants Nicks, Hakeem

My condolences to Scotty right now

This too shall pass

LTgiants
04-25-2009, 07:16 PM
Hakeem Nicks Madden Ratings

Overrall: 78
Speed: 88
Catching: 84
Jumping: 91
Route Running: 74

scottyboy
04-25-2009, 07:21 PM
I like Nicks, but my god, passing on Britt and having him go the NEXT pick. oof, that hurt

scottyboy
04-25-2009, 07:35 PM
sintim makes me happy, very nice draft for us thus far. I still wanna add a S, TE and maily OL

hugegmenfan
04-25-2009, 07:57 PM
Nicks and Sintim is pretty much what has projected for the giants since day 1 on mocks on this site

happy thus far

BaLLiN
04-25-2009, 08:07 PM
yes passing on britt hurt me, i still like nicks alot and i projected him to us along with sintim, but i really wanted Rey.

Duke Robinson or William moore please

Mr. Hero
04-25-2009, 08:29 PM
If carolina passes on beatty and we pick him I'll jizz, nicks, sintim and beatty is a dirst day that's better than I could've imagined.

scottyboy
04-25-2009, 08:31 PM
If carolina passes on beatty and we pick him I'll jizz, nicks, sintim and beatty is a dirst day that's better than I could've imagined.

but you wanted Beatty round 1...thank god we didn't take him, because he sucks...

D-Unit
04-25-2009, 08:36 PM
Congratulations on a DOMINATING draft. OMG. I'm so jealous.

scottyboy
04-25-2009, 08:36 PM
I hate my life, I knoew this would happen. He's so ******* SOFT in the run game, you gotta be kidding me...

touchdownmaker
04-25-2009, 08:40 PM
Well, I guess someone just jizzed their pants.........

I am still kinda pissed about not getting Braylon.

LTgiants
04-25-2009, 08:40 PM
hes developmental scotty he isnt starting right now he has 2nd round talent we got him at the bottom of the 2nd rd draft we came away with 3 really good picks. Be Happy Giants fans and stop hating cause your mock didnt work out like you wanted.