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bigbluedefense
07-15-2008, 03:01 PM
Might as well get this started now since its so dead these days.


So far, and this will obviously change a lot by the end of the season, i have the following listed as need positions.

-DT
-OT
-SS
-RB

DT is our biggest weakness, OT is a need bc McKenzie is getting older and we don't know if Diehl is a permanent fixture at LT or if we'll slide him back to LG where he's a PB caliber player. SS is a need bc we dont know what Michael Johnson gives us long term, and Sammy Knight is strictly a short term answer. RB could be a need bc we dont know if Jacobs will be retained, plus he's an injury liability, Bradshaw is a wildcard you never know if or when he'll do something stupid, and Ward is injury prone and signed a one year deal i believe.


Having that said, if the draft came by now and i can have my pick of any one player, Id debate between Fili Miola and Phil Loadholt. Those are my favorite 2 prospects right now.

Them and the MIKE from USC, he's an absolute monster, but I doubt we'd be interested even if he was on the board.

Discuss prospects.

Turtlepower
07-15-2008, 03:05 PM
I really like Loadholt as a RT. I don't think he has the athleticism to stay on the blindside, but he could be a monster on the right.

And my favorite DT from this class is Demarcus Granger, but the only problem are his red flags (shoplifting).

Finally, I also love Nic Harris from Oklahoma. He is a traditional SS who I thought was the best DB in the Big-12 last year.

bigbluedefense
07-15-2008, 03:09 PM
This has nothing to do with us, but I really like Sam Bradford, the qb from Oklahoma. I think he can be a very good game manager at the next level. Just throwing it out there.


Courtney Greene would make a nice compliment to Kenny Phillips. He'd be a realistic option too if we decide to invest in the secondary in the 1st round again.

Number 10
07-15-2008, 04:26 PM
I think Loadholt will end up with a higher grade than Jake Long before the 09 draft.

scottyboy
07-15-2008, 04:31 PM
If Johnson doesn't pan out, and Butler isn't resigned, I'd LOVE to grab Courtney Greene, hopefully round one at 32! :D

Imagine the young secondary we'd have? Philips, Greene, Ross, Webster, Thomas, Dockery? Pretty damn nice if you ask me.

Turtlepower
07-15-2008, 04:33 PM
I think Loadholt will end up with a higher grade than Jake Long before the 09 draft.

Loadholt was man-handled by WVU at the Fiesta Bowl. He is too tall and stiff to be a LT.

bigbluedefense
07-15-2008, 06:27 PM
Loadholt was in his first year against major competition last year. Just watch how he beasts it this year.


For our sake, i hope he does slip up a little. Maybe he'll fall in the draft and we can nab him.

D-Unit
07-15-2008, 06:32 PM
This has nothing to do with us, but I really like Sam Bradford, the qb from Oklahoma. I think he can be a very good game manager at the next level. Just throwing it out there.


Courtney Greene would make a nice compliment to Kenny Phillips. He'd be a realistic option too if we decide to invest in the secondary in the 1st round again.
Sam Bradford has been the best college QB prospect in college football since he took his first snap as starter. I liked him better than all of the QB prospects in this last draft.

D-Unit
07-15-2008, 06:33 PM
Loadholt was in his first year against major competition last year. Just watch how he beasts it this year.


For our sake, i hope he does slip up a little. Maybe he'll fall in the draft and we can nab him.
Question, do you guys like Loadholt more than Black?

bigbluedefense
07-15-2008, 06:36 PM
Question, do you guys like Loadholt more than Black?

Dont know yet. Need to see more games.


Sam Bradford has been the best college QB prospect in college football since he took his first snap as starter. I liked him better than all of the QB prospects in this last draft.

I agree 100%. I think Bradford could be a special player. Other than him, there really is no college qb to get excited about as a top prospect either last year or this year. Not in my eyes at least.

scottyboy
07-15-2008, 06:38 PM
Dont know yet. Need to see more games.




I agree 100%. I think Bradford could be a special player. Other than him, there really is no college qb to get excited about as a top prospect either last year or this year. Not in my eyes at least.

Mike Teel?...!!!! MIKE TEEL!!!!!!

And D, I like Loadholt, but I've gotta see more of both.

bigbluedefense
07-15-2008, 06:43 PM
Mike Teel?...!!!! MIKE TEEL!!!!!!

And D, I like Loadholt, but I've gotta see more of both.

I gotta admit, Teel made HUUGE strides last year. 2 years ago he one hopped a 10 yard pass, now he can actually throw it. But still, come on Scotty, 2nd round at best right now.


I love Underwood though. He's gonna be a very good WR. Like Greene a lot as a blue collar SS. He reminds me of Dawan Landry.

Not seeing Ray Rice on the field is gonna bring a tear to my eyes though </3.

scottyboy
07-15-2008, 06:45 PM
I gotta admit, Teel made HUUGE strides last year. 2 years ago he one hopped a 10 yard pass, now he can actually throw it. But still, come on Scotty, 2nd round at best right now.


I love Underwood though. He's gonna be a very good WR. Like Greene a lot as a blue collar SS. He reminds me of Dawan Landry.

Not seeing Ray Rice on the field is gonna bring a tear to my eyes though </3.


dammit BBD, you're making me tear up here... I told myself I'd only cry twice a day since he's been gone.... :( </333

I'd like us to try and gra Westermann. Big enough to be a Tuck-esque player coming in in the middle on 4 aces

bigbluedefense
07-15-2008, 06:49 PM
We need a guy at DT who will devour the interior of an oline. Someone who can disrupt and be strong at the point.

A guy like Kevin Williams of the Vikings. Whoever fits that bill would be a sweet addition to our team.

Personally, I want a 2 gap run thumper, but I dont know if Reese will ever get one of those since its not part of our system. But we really need a run thumper inside.


I hope Coffield bulked up. He had a very average season last year.

D-Unit
07-15-2008, 06:51 PM
Dont know yet. Need to see more games.




I agree 100%. I think Bradford could be a special player. Other than him, there really is no college qb to get excited about as a top prospect either last year or this year. Not in my eyes at least.
A lot of people like Stafford, but I just don't see it from him on the field. His measurables look great, but he could be Ryan Leaf. He's still young and even Brady Quinn made strides, so Stafford could be one to watch.

D-Unit
07-15-2008, 06:54 PM
We need a guy at DT who will devour the interior of an oline. Someone who can disrupt and be strong at the point.

A guy like Kevin Williams of the Vikings. Whoever fits that bill would be a sweet addition to our team.

Personally, I want a 2 gap run thumper, but I dont know if Reese will ever get one of those since its not part of our system. But we really need a run thumper inside.


I hope Coffield bulked up. He had a very average season last year.
Sorry to jump in the coversation, but I have wanted Dallas to find one of those for the longest time. Next year's draft looks promising between Fili Moala, Terence Taylor and personal fav before the injury... BJ Raji.

But now I'm hearing Marcus Spears is volunteering to make a move to NT. That ought to be interesting. ha.

Big_Pete
07-15-2008, 07:00 PM
Firstly, we need to consider our needs

Carr, Wright, Toomer, Ward, Ruegamer, Wynn, Butler, McQuarters and Dockery are our significant free agents.


QB: We have the franchise QB with Eli and have a Andre Woodson to develop behind him.

RB: We don't have a star, but we have a very solid core of RBs that get the job done.

TE: This hinges on Shockey, if he stays them we have no need. Even if he leaves we are solid with Boss, Johnson and Matthews

WR: Burress is back and Toomer is likely gone, but we have plenty of talented young guys to step up.

OL: All the starters of our Oline are locked up long term and we have decent depth behind them.


DE: Osi and Tuck are locked up and likely have decent developmental guys behind for depth; plus we can move Kiwanuka to DE

DT: Robbins, Cofield and Alford are solid.

LB: Pierce is solid and we have plenty of young LB talent around them.

CB: Ross, Webster and Thomas give us a good core, but more talent could be usefull.

S: Phillips should be good; Knight and Johnson are solid


We have no critical needs.

Reese will continue his policy of bringing in talented youngsters to compete with our current guys, but will largely take the best player available.

bigbluedefense
07-15-2008, 07:11 PM
We have no critical needs.

Reese will continue his policy of bringing in talented youngsters to compete with our current guys, but will largely take the best player available.

Actually, Reese has drafted for need the past 2 years in the 1st round. CB and Safety, he took the BPA in our biggest need in the 1st round each year. So Im expecting the same thing this year.

After the first 2 rounds, i think he goes BPA, but he attacks needs early.

Sorry to jump in the coversation, but I have wanted Dallas to find one of those for the longest time. Next year's draft looks promising between Fili Moala, Terence Taylor and personal fav before the injury... BJ Raji.

But now I'm hearing Marcus Spears is volunteering to make a move to NT. That ought to be interesting. ha.

It seems like a very good DT year. Spears will be a very good 4-3 NT, but I don't know if he has it to hack it at 3-4 NT. Chances are he'll get cut, and if the right team picks him up and uses him as a 4-3 NT, he can revive his career.

D-Unit
07-15-2008, 07:14 PM
Firstly, we need to consider our needs

Carr, Wright, Toomer, Ward, Ruegamer, Wynn, Butler, McQuarters and Dockery are our significant free agents.


QB: We have the franchise QB with Eli and have a Andre Woodson to develop behind him.

RB: We don't have a star, but we have a very solid core of RBs that get the job done.

TE: This hinges on Shockey, if he stays them we have no need. Even if he leaves we are solid with Boss, Johnson and Matthews

WR: Burress is back and Toomer is likely gone, but we have plenty of talented young guys to step up.

OL: All the starters of our Oline are locked up long term and we have decent depth behind them.


DE: Osi and Tuck are locked up and likely have decent developmental guys behind for depth; plus we can move Kiwanuka to DE

DT: Robbins, Cofield and Alford are solid.

LB: Pierce is solid and we have plenty of young LB talent around them.

CB: Ross, Webster and Thomas give us a good core, but more talent could be usefull.

S: Phillips should be good; Knight and Johnson are solid


We have no critical needs.

Reese will continue his policy of bringing in talented youngsters to compete with our current guys, but will largely take the best player available.
Things will be much clearer as the season goes on. I think the loss of Strahan will be noticed... at least early on. I also think you could use help at both OLB spots. I still don't buy Kiwi as a full time LB and unless Danny Clark turns into the tackling machine he used to be, I think Wilkerson will have his hands full if he's expected to get a lot of reps. While the OL is seemingly ok, there's no one really to write home about outside of Snee.

I would say keep beefing up the trenches for you guys.

D-Unit
07-15-2008, 07:21 PM
It seems like a very good DT year. Spears will be a very good 4-3 NT, but I don't know if he has it to hack it at 3-4 NT. Chances are he'll get cut, and if the right team picks him up and uses him as a 4-3 NT, he can revive his career.
It could potentially be Great. Jeff Owens is a monster... I wanna see more of this Evander Hood guy... watch out for Peria Jerry... there's Vance Walker and his teammate Darryl Richard... I've always liked Roy Miller, but he's fallen off the map.

But those are just the seniors.. if some of these juniors declare... Oh boy. DeMarcus Granger, Sen'Derrick Marks, Gino Atkins, RJF from LSU.

Things could get beastly.

bigbluedefense
07-15-2008, 07:21 PM
Things will be much clearer as the season goes on. I think the loss of Strahan will be noticed... at least early on. I also think you could use help at both OLB spots. I still don't buy Kiwi as a full time LB and unless Danny Clark turns into the tackling machine he used to be, I think Wilkerson will have his hands full if he's expected to get a lot of reps. While the OL is seemingly ok, there's no one really to write home about outside of Snee.

I would say keep beefing up the trenches for you guys.

Strahan's leadership is gonna be a huge loss.

We're actually really deep at LB imo. Wilkinson and Kehl are solid WILLs for what we do with our system, I have a feeling Wilkinson has a breakout year. For SAM, we have Kiwi, DeOssie, and Clark. I dont know what to think of Kiwi at SAM yet, now that Strahan is retired we can easily move him back if he starts to play poorly, although Im hoping he'll make more strides before week 1. But if not, no biggie, just throw him back on the dline and let DeOssie and Clark earn their paycheck.

My concern on oline is still LT. We're actually really deep along the oline, we have very good players who are underrated by the masses that play really well together (esp in the run game), but I question if Diehl is a full time answer at LT. I liked what i saw in Whimper late in the season, and will be tracking his progress this year in PS. He might be ready to start at LT this year, which would allow Diehl to move back to LG where he's a PB caliber player.

I do want us to add depth at DT though, we're real weak over there. Only DT to get excited about is Alford, and right now he's more of a situational player than full time DT.

This will obviously change, but as of right now DT and SS are our only 2 glaring needs.

BaLLiN
07-15-2008, 08:43 PM
Blue= my top prospect in the position

1. DT Terrance Taylor
2. OL Phil Loadholt
3. CB Vontae Davis S William Moore/Courtney Greene
4. DE Greg Hardy
5. RB Chris Wells
6. OLB Marcus Freeman MLB Rey Maulaluga
7. TE Jared Cook

Big Board:
1: Terrance Taylor
2: Chris Wells
3: Vontae Davis
4. Phil Loadholt

Go_Eli
07-15-2008, 10:09 PM
Don't sleep on Guy Whimper. He could replace McKenzie, who knows.

Turtlepower
07-16-2008, 12:52 AM
By the time the draft comes around, I expect Eugene Monroe to be a top-prospect. He is probably as good of a prospect as Jake Long, but a little off of Ferguson.

Big_Pete
07-16-2008, 08:46 PM
deleted...

bigbluedefense
07-20-2008, 12:53 PM
Don't sleep on Guy Whimper. He could replace McKenzie, who knows.

I see Guy as more of a LT bc he's more of a finesse player, but Id love to see him get tougher and eventually replace McKenzie. Im going to pay very close attention to Whimper this year in PS. I wasn't impressed with him at all last year in PS, but he took huge strides during the season and looked decent in Tampa in the playoffs. Now we'll see how much he's improved since then.

Im hoping for him to either get tough and be our future RT, or if he has the stuff, move into the starting lineup as the LT and move Diehl back to LG where he's a PB caliber player.

We forget, as much as I love Diehl (my favorite olinemen on our team), he was solid at LT but nothing special. Serviceable is an appropriate term. He struggled against speed rushers and Thomas ate his lunch in the SB. But at LG, Diehl is a beast. So if we can get the same quality out of Whimper at LT, im in favor of moving Diehl back to LG.

It should be noted however, while Diehl was average in pass protection at LT, he was dominant in the run game. So Whimper is not only going to have to show us what he can do in protection, but also show us that he can pave the way in the run game as well.

Go_Eli
07-20-2008, 03:00 PM
I see Guy as more of a LT bc he's more of a finesse player, but Id love to see him get tougher and eventually replace McKenzie. Im going to pay very close attention to Whimper this year in PS. I wasn't impressed with him at all last year in PS, but he took huge strides during the season and looked decent in Tampa in the playoffs. Now we'll see how much he's improved since then.

Im hoping for him to either get tough and be our future RT, or if he has the stuff, move into the starting lineup as the LT and move Diehl back to LG where he's a PB caliber player.

We forget, as much as I love Diehl (my favorite olinemen on our team), he was solid at LT but nothing special. Serviceable is an appropriate term. He struggled against speed rushers and Thomas ate his lunch in the SB. But at LG, Diehl is a beast. So if we can get the same quality out of Whimper at LT, im in favor of moving Diehl back to LG.

It should be noted however, while Diehl was average in pass protection at LT, he was dominant in the run game. So Whimper is not only going to have to show us what he can do in protection, but also show us that he can pave the way in the run game as well.

Tampa Bay playoff game with Whimper out there, the running game was fine.

BaLLiN
07-20-2008, 05:49 PM
The running game wasnt in cold hard weather and we really didnt depend on it. BBD has a point, i dont see him as a stout RT, he was a TE and has the athletic ability to play LT. So RT wouldnt be the best fit for him.

Geo
07-20-2008, 06:38 PM
Having that said, if the draft came by now and i can have my pick of any one player, Id debate between Fili Miola and Phil Loadholt. Those are my favorite 2 prospects right now.
Are you a bloodhound for busts, BBD? :D

bigbluedefense
07-21-2008, 09:14 AM
Are you a bloodhound for busts, BBD? :D

haha, well its real early so its hard to say right now. my opinions of players and needs will definitely change from now till the time of the draft. I do like Loadholt's potential though. And Miola, he fits the mold of what the Giants look for in DTs, so who knows.


Tampa Bay playoff game with Whimper out there, the running game was fine.

Actually, our entire run game in the playoffs even with Diehl in was poor. I believe we averaged like 3.5 yards per carry. Thats mainly bc of the loss of Shockey, but I can't verify how well Whimper did sealing his blocks off the top of my head.

Regardless, i think we should pay close attention to what Whimper does in PS. He should get more reps with the first team in TC.

Turtlepower
07-21-2008, 12:08 PM
If a stud-DE falls to us, I wouldn't even mind taking one.

BaLLiN
07-22-2008, 07:25 AM
well now we have a 1st, 2 2nds, possibly 2 3rds (FA of Gibril), possibly 2 4ths (Mitchell FA), 2 5ths, 6th and 7th.

but we gained very minor players and Reynaldo Wynn, Danny Clark, and Sammy Knight. but i dont know who was released or whos contract just expired and the team didnt resign them. But most likely the Reggie Torbor FA compensation will be nulled, possibly the Mitchell compensation, but i think the Wilson compensation will hold strong because he is alot better in terms of age and productivity compared to any of our FA pickups

bigbluedefense
07-22-2008, 08:01 AM
we have firepower to make some aggressive moves in this upcoming draft. i like it, especially since this draft is deep where we need it to be.


depending on how Boss plays, we might need to add TE as a need, albeit I think Boss will be fine for us. any TEs coming out worth mentioning?

BaLLiN
07-22-2008, 07:44 PM
Travis Beckum and Conrelius Ingram are the only ones i know of really

Big_Pete
07-22-2008, 08:20 PM
any TEs coming out worth mentioning?

The TEs this year are solid and there is good depth, but there is no real standout.

Guys to keep an eye on:

Jermaine Gresham, Oklahoma, 6-6, 264, 4.73*
Chase Coffman, Missouri, 6-6, 247, 4.83
Brandon Pettigrew, Oklahoma St, 6-6, 260, 4.82
Ryan Purvis, Boston College, 6-4, 258, 4.83
Travis Beckum, Wisconsin, 6-3, 233, 4.63
Cody Slate, Marshall, 6-4, 224, 4.67*
Cornelius Ingram, Florida, 6-4, 232, 4.68
Ed Dickson, Oregon, 6-5, 240, 4.68*
Shawn Nelson, Southern Mississippi, 6-5, 242, 4.65
Bear Pascoe, Fresno St, 6-6, 258, 4.86
John Phillips, Virginia, 6-6, 254, 4.82
Brian Mandeville, Northeastern, 6-6, 248, 4.78
Jared Bronson, Central Washington, 6-4, 255, 4.67

*junior

Beckum, Slate and Ingram are more the smaller H-Back style TEs

bigbluedefense
07-24-2008, 06:51 PM
The TEs this year are solid and there is good depth, but there is no real standout.

Guys to keep an eye on:

Jermaine Gresham, Oklahoma, 6-6, 264, 4.73*
Chase Coffman, Missouri, 6-6, 247, 4.83
Brandon Pettigrew, Oklahoma St, 6-6, 260, 4.82
Ryan Purvis, Boston College, 6-4, 258, 4.83
Travis Beckum, Wisconsin, 6-3, 233, 4.63
Cody Slate, Marshall, 6-4, 224, 4.67*
Cornelius Ingram, Florida, 6-4, 232, 4.68
Ed Dickson, Oregon, 6-5, 240, 4.68*
Shawn Nelson, Southern Mississippi, 6-5, 242, 4.65
Bear Pascoe, Fresno St, 6-6, 258, 4.86
John Phillips, Virginia, 6-6, 254, 4.82
Brian Mandeville, Northeastern, 6-6, 248, 4.78
Jared Bronson, Central Washington, 6-4, 255, 4.67

*junior

Beckum, Slate and Ingram are more the smaller H-Back style TEs

well preferably, id like a guy of the mold of Anthony Fasano. I think that type of TE would fit our system very well.

btw, watch for Fasano, I think he breaks out this year.

Turtlepower
07-25-2008, 01:32 AM
The more and more I look at him, the more I want Greg Middleton from Indiana. He is the perfect replacement for Strahan and a great compliment to Osi. If there are any Indiana football games this year, please take a look at this kid because he would be a perfect fit for us.

Big_Pete
07-26-2008, 07:56 AM
I think we are reasonable good at DE

I think Tuck will be fine as Strahan's replacement; even if he doesn't we have Kiwanuka to slot in.

My preference is for Brandon Spikes or Rey Melualuga. They are the stud LB we have badly needed for some time and he could play any of our LB positions. I like Wilkinson, but he is hurt for his 3rd consecutive training camp; Clark is a stop gap. DeOssie and Kehl are solid, but Spikes is in a different class.


as far as TE; I think we will go a mid-late round pick again (I think there are better value players at other positions early). My pick at the moment are Bear Pascoe (Fresno State), but there are a few other good options.

Turtlepower
07-26-2008, 12:33 PM
I think we are reasonable good at DE

I think Tuck will be fine as Strahan's replacement; even if he doesn't we have Kiwanuka to slot in.

My preference is for Brandon Spikes or Rey Melualuga. They are the stud LB we have badly needed for some time and he could play any of our LB positions. I like Wilkinson, but he is hurt for his 3rd consecutive training camp; Clark is a stop gap. DeOssie and Kehl are solid, but Spikes is in a different class.


as far as TE; I think we will go a mid-late round pick again (I think there are better value players at other positions early). My pick at the moment are Bear Pascoe (Fresno State), but there are a few other good options.

Why would we draft two MLBs to play WLB? Wouldn't it make a heck of a lot more sense to just draft someone like McRath? I don't think the Giants will ever draft a LB in the 1st round because 90% of the time you can get a quality LB in the later rounds.

As far as drafting DEs goes, I think that Kiwi won't be moving back to DE ever for us. It would just waste another season for the transition. Right now, I would much prefer Tuck playing the role he played last year instead of starting as RE. I think Tuck can pull it off easily, but he outperformed all expectations in the role he was given last year.

Big_Pete
07-27-2008, 03:41 AM
Why would we draft two MLBs to play WLB? Wouldn't it make a heck of a lot more sense to just draft someone like McRath? I don't think the Giants will ever draft a LB in the 1st round because 90% of the time you can get a quality LB in the later rounds.



The WLB in the Giants' system is not like the standard 4-3 WLB with great speed and athleticism. Our WLB is more like the 3-4 Mo ILB - Whilst the Mike ILB is usually the run stuffing player, the Mo ILB is usually a smaller, faster player who excels in pass coverage; but still needs to be able to plug running lanes.

Think about it, why else do they sign a MLB in Kawaika Mitchell when Pierce was firmly entrenched at MLB?

In the Giants system guys like Melualuga and Spikes have plenty of speed, athleticism and instincts to play WLB.

Interestingly: it is still very early in camp, but both our rookie LBs were playing with our second team defense: Bryan Kehl (a college OLB) at MLB and Jonathan Goff (a college MLB) at WLB; Goff displayed strong coverage skills.

eaglesfan_45
07-27-2008, 04:16 AM
are you positive? because the Eagles run the EXACT same system and I've never heard this. I'm waiting for BBD to confirm or deny.

Big_Pete
07-27-2008, 06:36 AM
are you positive? because the Eagles run the EXACT same system and I've never heard this. I'm waiting for BBD to confirm or deny.

Look at who the eagles have used at OLB, guys like Simoneau, Jones etc who have been used inside elsewhere. There are alot of similarities, but I don't think it is the exact system; for example, the Eagles haven't used a quality passrusher from SLB.

I think our WLB is not too dissimilar to how the Chargers used Donnie Edwards at ILB

In any event we are talkign about draft prospects; neither the eagles nor Giants use the smaller speedy LB that people normally think of when refering to a 4-3 WLB. Quality ILBs like Brandon Spikes, Rey Melualuga, Dannell Ellerbe, Darry Beckwith, Tyrone McKenzie etc would likely be fine.

eaglesfan_45
07-27-2008, 08:02 PM
no quality pass rusher? lol.

Chris Gocong ring a bell? he was a DE in college and he is an ideal 3-4 OLB very similar Kiwi. :/ or how about Andy Studebaker? that DE the Eagles drafted and are moving to OLB? The Eagles use the exact same system.

Dannell Ellerbe, Darry Beckwith and Tyrone McKenzie are all going to play WLB in the NFL regardless of the system

bigbluedefense
07-28-2008, 10:23 AM
both of you guys are right and wrong in some ways.


Yes, our systems ideally are identical, but there are some slight differences. I think it has more to do with personnel compared to ideology. For example, the Eagles run a little more man than we do, but thats mainly bc they have the better secondary and are able to do so. Ideally Spags would like to run more man but can't because we had issues in the secondary last year. Those issues should for the most part be resolved this year, and I expect to see more man coverage used.

Also, Jim Johnson likes overload blitzing a lot more than Spags does on 3rd and long. I think this is bc Spags doesn't need to do so as much because of our dline.

Also, Jim Johnson is more traditional in his packages. Spags will have packages where we have 4 DEs on the line, and no safeties and all CBs. Johnson is more traditional in a sense that he'll use more conventional player packages. Again though, I believe this has more to do with the Eagles having the right personnel whereas Spags was mixing and matching more with our personnel to make it work. As we continue to build up our defense in the mold of this scheme, youll see less variation of this nature.


As for the WILL in this system, I can only speak for the Giants but Im assuming the same goes for the Eagles. There is no difference for the most part ideally between strongside and weakside. In fact, this is the case for our dline as well.

The OLBs have to be stoute against the run, good blitzers, and downhill thumpers. Ideally you want them to be very good in pass coverage too, but for the most part the system requires downhill thumpers on the outside. Coverage is more of a responsibility for the secondary in this defense. Thats why ive been saying that OLBs are overrated in this scheme.

And Big Pete is correct when he says that a traditional MIKE can play WILL for us, because the WILL does play like a MIKE. All the LBs in this system do. They have to be thumpers against the run, be strong downhill, and provide decent coverage. Thats why all our LBs are versatile guys (except Pierce). All of them for the most part can play all 3 LB positions.

Wilkinson is a more traditional WILL, but he can also fit this scheme because he's so fast he can provide that downhill ability, and he's a former ILB, and he plays with that kind of aggression even on the outside. Only negatives are his health and size.

Having that said, with Wilkinson staying injured, Im losing faith in him winning the WILL spot. Id love to see him out there bc he provides our defense the speed at LB that it could really use, but he just can't stay healthy. If this is the case, Im REALLY hoping for Goff or Kehl to win the WILL spot. I really like both these guys, and Im a huge Goff fan. I think we really stole him. And if his coverage skills are as good as advertised so far, Id love to throw him at WILL in our scheme to get him on the field. The man is gonna be a special player, and Id love to see him on the field.


We have a lot of very good underrated LBs on our team. Wilkinson, Kehl, Goff, and Blackburn are all very good underrated guys. This is one position that I really want to focus on in PS. Its any man's job right now.

Big_Pete
07-28-2008, 06:07 PM
Thanks for the clarification BBD,

Wilkinson being on the sidelines again in training camp is a real concern for me; we had been hoping that he would step up this training camp and emerge as the starter. The longer he stays on the sideline, the less likely that is.

Danny Clark certainly has the inside running at WLB now.

We certainly do have some talented young LBs who could emerge as starters.

Goff has been impressive at WLB with the 2nd team and has been doing pretty well.

Next year's draft seems particularly stacked at ILB; which means we could easily pick up good talent at various stages of the draft.

ALD
07-29-2008, 12:09 AM
I'm a big Terrance Taylor fan a he has simply nasty strength without impeding his quickness with excess bulk.

bigbluedefense
07-29-2008, 08:00 AM
Thanks for the clarification BBD,

Wilkinson being on the sidelines again in training camp is a real concern for me; we had been hoping that he would step up this training camp and emerge as the starter. The longer he stays on the sideline, the less likely that is.

Danny Clark certainly has the inside running at WLB now.

We certainly do have some talented young LBs who could emerge as starters.

Goff has been impressive at WLB with the 2nd team and has been doing pretty well.

Next year's draft seems particularly stacked at ILB; which means we could easily pick up good talent at various stages of the draft.

I personally hope Clark doesn't win the WILL spot if Wilkinson stays injured. I rather give our young guys a chance instead. Ill be happy with Kehl, Goff, or Blackburn manning that spot ahead of Clark only because i want to see them get on the field and i think they give us more from a player standpoint, plus youth.

I honestly don't think we need an LB unless an elite talent falls to us and makes it hard for us to pass on. I think we're deep at LB. Think about it, if we draft another LB, who do you cut?

An overlooked potential need could be running back for us. If Jacobs and Ward leaves, that just leaves us with Bradshaw. And I don't want to depend on Bradshaw because you never know with these character concern guys whats gonna happen next, so we'd need a plan B.

bigbluedefense
07-29-2008, 08:00 AM
I'm a big Terrance Taylor fan a he has simply nasty strength without impeding his quickness with excess bulk.

sounds like a good fit, I'll keep an eye on him.

ALD
07-29-2008, 01:31 PM
sounds like a good fit, I'll keep an eye on him.

two years ago, during Alan Branch's junior campaign, I watched a lot of michigan games focusing on their big boys inside and it was taylor who stuck out and not branch who was at that point thought to be a potential top 10 pick.

BaLLiN
07-29-2008, 08:41 PM
two years ago, during Alan Branch's junior campaign, I watched a lot of michigan games focusing on their big boys inside and it was taylor who stuck out and not branch who was at that point thought to be a potential top 10 pick.

your right IMO, i used to love that michigan defense. Taylor would definitely be my pick. even over Moala

ALD
07-30-2008, 07:07 PM
As long as he continues to dominate the line of scrimmage as the man on that defensive line I'd love to see us take Taylor with our first pick.

bigbluedefense
08-26-2008, 02:42 PM
With Osi's injury, it would not surprise me at all to see us take another DE in the draft within the first 3 rounds. (after all, we initially tried trading Shockey for Jason Taylor)

I would be opposed to having a round 1 DE, but wouldn't mind at all if we nabbed a guy who falls to the 2nd or 3rd round.


Ideally, id love a Tommie Harris like DT. That would solve our problems right there. A 3 headed DE monster is essential for our defensive scheme to tick, our scheme revolves around that foundation. If one goes down (like this year) it limits what we want to do. However, having a Harris-like DT along with 3 DEs is perfect for us. Because even if one DE goes down, we still have that penetrating DT who can give us push up the middle and allow us to run similar plays that Spags wants to run.

So while SS is our biggest "need" talent wise, I think if the draft happened right here right now, our first priority would be looking for a Harris-like DT.

Any names?

and what DEs are looking like round 2 grades right now?

Giantsfan1080
08-26-2008, 02:47 PM
With Osi's injury, it would not surprise me at all to see us take another DE in the draft within the first 3 rounds. (after all, we initially tried trading Shockey for Jason Taylor)

I would be opposed to having a round 1 DE, but wouldn't mind at all if we nabbed a guy who falls to the 2nd or 3rd round.


Ideally, id love a Tommie Harris like DT. That would solve our problems right there. A 3 headed DE monster is essential for our defensive scheme to tick, our scheme revolves around that foundation. If one goes down (like this year) it limits what we want to do. However, having a Harris-like DT along with 3 DEs is perfect for us. Because even if one DE goes down, we still have that penetrating DT who can give us push up the middle and allow us to run similar plays that Spags wants to run.

So while SS is our biggest "need" talent wise, I think if the draft happened right here right now, our first priority would be looking for a Harris-like DT.

Any names?

and what DEs are looking like round 2 grades right now?

I've heard a lot of good things about Terrance Taylor but I haven't seen him play much. As for the De's it doesn't look like a very good year for the position. I'm sure Reese and co. can unearth someone in the 2nd though. Look out for Jamal Westerman on Rutgers as I think he might fit our system pretty well but he would be more of a Day 2 project.

BaLLiN
08-27-2008, 06:13 PM
its a good thing that it looks like there is alot of DL talent this year

bigbluedefense
09-08-2008, 03:22 PM
theres a DE from USF that caught my eye. He plays RE i believe. I forgot his name.


Worth keeping an eye on. We just need another pass rushing DE to come in on 3rd down. If he's a 2nd/3rd round grade guy, might be worth checking out.

Turtlepower
09-08-2008, 03:32 PM
theres a DE from USF that caught my eye. He plays RE i believe. I forgot his name.


Worth keeping an eye on. We just need another pass rushing DE to come in on 3rd down. If he's a 2nd/3rd round grade guy, might be worth checking out.

If you are referring to George Selvie, he is most likely a top-15 pick. Watch Greg Middleton from Indiana and Greg Hardy from Ole Miss.

bigbluedefense
09-08-2008, 03:42 PM
If you are referring to George Selvie, he is most likely a top-15 pick. Watch Greg Middleton from Indiana and Greg Hardy from Ole Miss.

yeah thats the guy. crap.

and will do on the other guys.

giantsfan
09-08-2008, 05:44 PM
I've heard a lot of good things about Terrance Taylor but I haven't seen him play much. As for the De's it doesn't look like a very good year for the position. I'm sure Reese and co. can unearth someone in the 2nd though. Look out for Jamal Westerman on Rutgers as I think he might fit our system pretty well but he would be more of a Day 2 project.

Taylor's more of a Nose tackle because of his ungodly strength, he was stronger than both watson and branch despite them having a good 30 pounds on him at the time. And while he gets a good push he isn't much of a pass rusher. If we grab him I'd still be looking for a prospect like Jason Jones from last year, a guy with the quickness for DE, but strength and experience to play UT regularly.

scottyboy
09-08-2008, 06:23 PM
i really don't think we need a DE that early. Tuck and Osi next year is still the best tandem with Kiwi as a rusher on passing downs. If one falls to our laps, then sweet, a toy for(hopefully) Spags. If not, look for an OLB, SS, DT or MAYBE TE(OL depth never hurt either)

skiinginNJ
09-08-2008, 10:09 PM
id like to see how the season plays out, but call me crazy, but i wouldnt mind another safety.


lots of good ones in the draft, though none as good as courtney green (for you scottyboy) so it doesnt necessarily have to be in round 1

BaLLiN
09-09-2008, 06:24 PM
i wouldnt mind DL being our first two picks, but then we'd have a pick from the saints in the 2nd too, so we could probably use that for OL or maybe a CB or not completely out of the question HB

Big_Pete
09-09-2008, 06:47 PM
The most interesting thing will be what the Giants do in free agency, the Giants will have a bit of salary cap room

My money at the moment is bringing in one quality free agent and extending Jacobs, Cofield and perhaps Whimper.

The free agent I think we will try to sign a good left tackle perhaps Stacy Andrews, Jordan Gross or Vernon Carey. This would allow us to move Diehl back to LG with Seubert as primary backup.

The draft

I don't see how we can draft a DE early (if at all), Osi will be back giving us 3 stud DEs plus we have Wynn and there is a good chance McDougle will stick around if he has some success here this season.

Our biggest need is at LB where we need speed, that has been the biggest weakness of our defense. Kehl will likely ermerge as the starter at one LB spot, but we could really use a second OLB with legitimate speed.

I doubt Butler is back, meaning we will will likely draft a SS at some point (and the draft class is strong) to develop behind and compete with Knight and Johnson.

We will may to draft a developmental CB; I doubt McQuarters is back, age may catch Madison and Dockery will be restricted free agent. Even if Madison and Dockery are back, it will likely be for one more season at best.

Turtlepower
09-09-2008, 06:51 PM
LB really isn't that big in our defense. I would much prefer going after any other position on the field (except QB) than Linebacker.

scottyboy
09-09-2008, 07:06 PM
LB really isn't that big in our defense. I would much prefer going after any other position on the field (except QB) than Linebacker.

yes, but imagine if we had talent and stability there, how much better we could be? Do we really wanna go year after year picking up rejects on a 1 year, 1 mil "show me" contract. I mean Mitchell, Clark, who's next? let's get some talent and stability. Perhaps Gerris and Kehl prove me wrong, I'd love that

Big_Pete
09-09-2008, 08:40 PM
LB really isn't that big in our defense. I would much prefer going after any other position on the field (except QB) than Linebacker.


Yes and no.

I will agree that it isn't our top defensive priority.

Our coaching staff does a good job of putting our LBs in the right position to make plays, but we do lack genuine speed.

Fair enough that big LBs is a priority for us, but if we can get big and fast LBs to play outside LB, our defense will go to the next level.

giantsfan
09-10-2008, 01:14 AM
Here's my personal rankings of our needs for next offseason ATM
1. NT
We're going to need a big guy who can be a two gapper against the run and just push the pocket with his strength. If we can establish a consistently great run D we'll be able to attack teams more with our pass rush.

2. SS
Michael Johnson very well could be the answer as he's got all the tools, but until he shows up on the field and rids us off James Butler he'll be a questionmark.

3. LT
I know there are other needs, this is the first year in a while were we haven't had any massive imminent needs that would prevent us from getting to grab an elite LT or LT prospect if we can find a fit. Yes Diehl's still adjusting and we have a good line, but if we could finally find a franchise Left Tackle who would be good enough to take on speedy pass rushers and protect eli's blindside our line gaurantee improved stability. Plus Diehl was just better at guard. Having seubert be a 6th man of sorts atleast on the inside of that oline would be good for depth with Whimper and Olivea making sure we've got guys who can weather the storm as backup OTs.

4. DE/UT
Again a luxury need, but one that I think is important if we want establish ourselves as an elite franchise. Osi and Tuck will be a hell of a duo, but I think that if we don't find a great LB value in teh draft Kiwi very well could be moving back to SLB. If that happens we'll need to add another pass rusher to the DL just for depth purposes, giving spags more weapons is always a good idea, a DE who like tuck could shift inside would be a great, but a UT with the quickness to move outside sometimes would also be great. If Kiwi stays at DE this need is replaced by a SLB with pass rushing potential.

5. CB
I don't think Corner is going to be a major need because we'll have ross and thomas as our starters or at least 2 of our top 3 set, and more than likely webster and dockery which is a very solid top 4, adding a more developmental pick just for depth would be nice

6. LB
Now if Kiwi isn't back at LB next season this becomes the number 4 need. I think we'll be pretty well set at WLB with Wilk and Kehl, who I think will really improve once he adjusts to the NFL level. On the otherside Goff could viable be a good option but i'd like to have someone at the SLB who can be useful as a pass rusher so a later round DE/OLB tweener is what I'm thinking, a guy like Marcus Howard last draft.

7. WR/TE
If Boss shows steady improvement as a blocker I'll be content with him as the starting TE, however I'd still like us to grab a late round athlete who we can develop into a true weapon as a receiving TE because while boss is solid he doesn't worry people and doesn't really burn teams down the seam. At WR we've got plax who is a true number 1 and a stud who you can build your passing game around, but no one else on the roster has that type of number 1 potential if he starts to decline or injuries take their toll on his long health. Smith is a great steady slot type and will always be a very good complimentary possession guy. Mario manningham has the physical ability to be a serious deep threat and explosive playmaker but I don't see him having the consistency to be a true number 1 so if there's no value at other positions and we get a chance at a WR with real number 1 potential I wouldn't mind taking one as early as round 1.

8. RB
Really only a need if Jacobs bolts, but if he goes we'll need a big bruiser in the mid rounds.

9. K
I don't trust tynes, period.

skiinginNJ
09-21-2008, 09:09 PM
brian cushing should just come home to jersey

bigbluedefense
09-22-2008, 09:51 AM
As the weeks go by, our "needs" change as we go along. Right now, I have WILL as our #1 need, followed by SS.

We might have the luxury of going BPA this year though, because we're solid across the board.

If we don't resign Jacobs, I wouldn't mind a round 1 RB if a stud is available.

Forenci
09-22-2008, 06:44 PM
As the weeks go by, our "needs" change as we go along. Right now, I have WILL as our #1 need, followed by SS.

We might have the luxury of going BPA this year though, because we're solid across the board.

If we don't resign Jacobs, I wouldn't mind a round 1 RB if a stud is available.

I would LOVE to get Knowshon Moreno. Beanie Wells doesn't seem like a good pro back. He has size and solid speed, but he really lacks the vision and that 'second gear' that most franchise backs have. He may end up being good, but I don't see him as the legitimate pro running back.

Jacobs is a good back but he's too much of a bruiser and not enough of a threat to really be considered a 'franchise' running back.

Moreno just screams 'franchise running back' to me. Speed, good hands, has superb vision (his best asset in my opinion) and knows how to read blocks. Could you imagine the Giants offense with a legitimate 'do everything' running back? With our offensive line and his talent I think we could have that running back we've missed since Tiki retired. It would open up so many things for Eli, too.

Perhaps I'm just a bit high on Moreno, more than most, but I love the way he runs.

skiinginNJ
09-22-2008, 08:07 PM
as far as RB go, i really love CJ Spiller. he is just electric with the ball in his hands, plus he returns punts and kicks with the best of them



also like LeSean McCoy, he has a prototypical RB body with size and has excellent speed and vision

Turtlepower
09-22-2008, 10:51 PM
I would LOVE to get Knowshon Moreno. Beanie Wells doesn't seem like a good pro back. He has size and solid speed, but he really lacks the vision and that 'second gear' that most franchise backs have. He may end up being good, but I don't see him as the legitimate pro running back.

Jacobs is a good back but he's too much of a bruiser and not enough of a threat to really be considered a 'franchise' running back.

Moreno just screams 'franchise running back' to me. Speed, good hands, has superb vision (his best asset in my opinion) and knows how to read blocks. Could you imagine the Giants offense with a legitimate 'do everything' running back? With our offensive line and his talent I think we could have that running back we've missed since Tiki retired. It would open up so many things for Eli, too.

Perhaps I'm just a bit high on Moreno, more than most, but I love the way he runs.

I got to see Knowshon play last week and let me tell you, he reminds me of Tomlinson with his rare blend of speed and being able to give a hit. Knowshon will be better than Adrian Peterson.

giantsfan
09-23-2008, 01:42 AM
As the weeks go by, our "needs" change as we go along. Right now, I have WILL as our #1 need, followed by SS.

We might have the luxury of going BPA this year though, because we're solid across the board.

If we don't resign Jacobs, I wouldn't mind a round 1 RB if a stud is available.

If Osi comes back completely healthy, robbens continues to have a good year, tuck remains beast and either Tollefson or McDougle prove to be solid rotational guys do you think Kiwi will be back at SLB next summer? I hate jerking him around like this but SLB just seems like the best way to keep him on the field without taking Osi or Tuck off the field. If that is the case I don't think WLB is that big of a need, I could see spags, if he's back, do perfectly fine with Goff or Kehl handling the run downs and wilk coming on in the nickel package.

I'm personally hoping we go BPA and the best player available just happens to be a true stud franchise LT who could guard Eli's blindside from even the better DEs in the league, and let us move diehl back to LG. But I could definately see us going NT, OLB, SS, RB or even WR if a potential #1 guy like Crabtree is at our pick (if he runs in the 4.5s that might not be too unrealistic)

as far as RB go, i really love CJ Spiller. he is just electric with the ball in his hands, plus he returns punts and kicks with the best of them



also like LeSean McCoy, he has a prototypical RB body with size and has excellent speed and vision

I like McCoy a lot, but Spiller is too much lightening and not enough thunder to replace Jacobs if you'll forgive my gross oversimplification. Also I think we've got a slightly more troubled man's version of him in Ahmad Bradshaw already.

Moreno's a beast and he could have a better career than AD, but I can't ever imagine him being better than AD until AD breaksdown. IMO DMC > AD > Marshawn > Stewart > Moreno > Johnson > Mendenhall > Wells

bigbluedefense
09-23-2008, 09:09 AM
I think if Osi comes back healthy, yes, we have to move Kiwi back to SAM. He's only a 2 down SAM anyway, and he was looking really good in that role. More versatility never hurt anybody. He'll come back on the line in our nickel anyway. We need a WILL, our WILLs are average. A stud WILL, a credible SS, and a 4th DE is all we're missing on defense.

I have a feeling we get another DE in this draft just in case. Our defense is built on a 3 DE front, we have to have a 4th DE as a backup plan.

As for Diehl, Im not sure if I want to move him back to LG. He's been a stud at LT. He reminds me of Jake Long oddly enough. He's a road grader LT in the run game that mauls you, and mauls you in pass protection. He'll have some trouble against speed rushers just like Long, but is more than enough in pass protection. I say keep him there.

LTs don't grow on trees. I think its much easier finding a road grader LG in the draft later on and plugging him in. I rather have Diehl block Eli's blindside than a rookie. Unless Oher or Loadholt fall, im against it at the moment.

We do need a future RT though. Im not sure what to do with Whimper. He's too soft to play RT, and he won't beat out Diehl at LT anytime soon. Maybe he's just destined to be a solid backup. Id hate to lose him though.

Forenci
09-23-2008, 10:52 AM
Also, we may need to eventually (perhaps not even this draft) looking for a center. O'Hara isn't exactly young and one would have to imagine he will eventually start to deteriorate skill wise. Certainly that doesn't seem like the case right now, but it's something to think about.

The funny thing is about Knowshon is it seems like people aren't totally sold on him for whatever reason. Probably because he doesn't have blazing speed and size that will stick out to you when the Combine comes around, but he makes up for it with his overall ability and some of the intangibles, like vision.

I still think he could easily be a top 15, or top 20 pick and probably will be - so we'd have to trade up to get him which depending on how the Saints finish it may be worth trade up and grab a franchise back.

skiinginNJ
09-23-2008, 05:10 PM
I like McCoy a lot, but Spiller is too much lightening and not enough thunder to replace Jacobs if you'll forgive my gross oversimplification. Also I think we've got a slightly more troubled man's version of him in Ahmad Bradshaw already.

Moreno's a beast and he could have a better career than AD, but I can't ever imagine him being better than AD until AD breaksdown. IMO DMC > AD > Marshawn > Stewart > Moreno > Johnson > Mendenhall > Wells



yes spiller isnt the power runner to replace jacobs, but he is more explosive and versatile than Bradshaw. he is a homerun threat every time he touches the ball



McCoy is my guy though, if he comes out and is available since i think Moreno will be long gone

stillma7ic
10-02-2008, 11:30 PM
knowshon, cushing and myron rolle are all coming home

:twisted:

giantsfan
10-03-2008, 01:40 AM
knowshon, cushing and myron rolle are all coming home

:twisted:

Myron Rolle seems like James Butler 2.0 coming here as he has the exact same problems and exact same strengths.

Love Cushing although I'd rather studdify ourselves along the lines even more.

And while I love Knowshon I kinda would rather he not even get close to our pick, even if Jacobs bolts.

I think if Osi comes back healthy, yes, we have to move Kiwi back to SAM. He's only a 2 down SAM anyway, and he was looking really good in that role. More versatility never hurt anybody. He'll come back on the line in our nickel anyway. We need a WILL, our WILLs are average. A stud WILL, a credible SS, and a 4th DE is all we're missing on defense.

I have a feeling we get another DE in this draft just in case. Our defense is built on a 3 DE front, we have to have a 4th DE as a backup plan.

As for Diehl, Im not sure if I want to move him back to LG. He's been a stud at LT. He reminds me of Jake Long oddly enough. He's a road grader LT in the run game that mauls you, and mauls you in pass protection. He'll have some trouble against speed rushers just like Long, but is more than enough in pass protection. I say keep him there.

LTs don't grow on trees. I think its much easier finding a road grader LG in the draft later on and plugging him in. I rather have Diehl block Eli's blindside than a rookie. Unless Oher or Loadholt fall, im against it at the moment.

We do need a future RT though. Im not sure what to do with Whimper. He's too soft to play RT, and he won't beat out Diehl at LT anytime soon. Maybe he's just destined to be a solid backup. Id hate to lose him though.

Kehl's still young let the game slow down for him a little more I don't think WILL is a pressing need and in general a position that is less important than so of the others.

I think that there are a lot of lineman in this draft that could have great potential down the line, a lot of natural Left Tackles at the top of this draft and a great center prospect.

We're unlikely to be in position to grab any of the instant impact starting LT rookies, Oher, Monroe, Smith, anyway so any rookie would start out as a backup pushing seubert at LG. So Diehl will be our starting LT for atleast the next season or two. However down the road I'd much rather see a young franchise caliber rookie, Loadholt and Meredith are two good ones who should be available, at LT and Diehl swapping over to RT to replace McKenzie.

Even if Diehl is what we want in a LT we need to add some young depth with real potential as Seubert can be upgraded, O'hara could be nearing the end of his career and McKenzie certainly hasn't been to great and is over 30 as well, and not the soft guys that we've been drafting late in the past few drafts. So if you think Diehl is the answer I'd like us to grab Duke Robinson, Loadholt or Mack if we have the chance at any of them.

Duke is going to be better than Snee with proper coaching so adding him to our line and moving Seubert to the bench would be incredible for our starting unit and depth.

Loadholt because he'll be a massive force at either tackle position and could push Seubert for the LG spot and provide quality depth early.

Mack's the best guard prospect I've ever seen, I like him more than Mangold and think he'd be an instant starter at LG and could even be a RT down the line although him eventually replacing O'hara would be incredible.

I'm really curious to see what DE prospect will be available in the second and third rounds as I doubt we go there in round one although I wouldn't even gripe about it.

Turtlepower
10-05-2008, 04:08 PM
If Greg Hardy falls to us (which he won't), we gotta take him. He could end up being one of the best DEs in the league if he gets his **** together.

scottyboy
10-05-2008, 04:10 PM
If Greg Hardy falls to us (which he won't), we gotta take him. He could end up being one of the best DEs in the league if he gets his **** together.

i still don't get why you're so insistent we take a DE early, you do know Osi is coming back right? Why take a 4th DE early? Kiwi will most likely stay at DE if we can get a starting calibur OLB this offseason...

Turtlepower
10-05-2008, 04:21 PM
i still don't get why you're so insistent we take a DE early, you do know Osi is coming back right? Why take a 4th DE early? Kiwi will most likely stay at DE if we can get a starting calibur OLB this offseason...

As BBD related to earlier, Kiwi will move back to SAM when Osi comes back, which leaves a spot for our 3rd DE. Greg Hardy is a power rushing DE who reminds me of Strahan. I even think that Hardy could move inside on passing downs a la Justin Tuck and thus make it so we can easily gain pressure with just our front-4 rather than do all the blitzing that we are doing this year. By getting pressure up front alone, it would make our need at LB lessen (though it is still a need) and thus allow us to take a OLB in the 2nd.

Also, I feel that LBs are one of the easiest players to get in later rounds and are generally not worth a 1st round pick. There are exceptions, but if you look at the quality round 2 and 3 LBs in the league, it is evident that we can wait on OLB for round 2.

Malaka
10-05-2008, 04:21 PM
Michael Strahan said awhile back that Osi is great pass-rusher, Tuck is a great pass rusher and Kiwi has the most potential out of all 3 of them, he also stated Tuck is more of an inside rusher.

So what I am trying to get at with this statement is if and when Robbins leaves, same with Cofield he is in a contract year, why not move Tuck to DT, like a Warren Sapp type DT, if he gains a little weight he'd be perfect, and we could keep Osi and Kiwi at their most comfortable spots where we can get the most out of them. If we can some decent linebackers I think that this is our best option, we would have an excellent pass rush every down.

As for back-up DEs Tollefson is really underrated here, he is a pretty good pass-rusher in his own right, I wouldn't be to mad if he had to start for someone being injured, he and Kiwi had our only sacks today. We really do not need a DE in the first day, unless it is someone loaded with potential like Selvie or Michael Johnson, anyway we need a linebacker more than anything Gerris has been disappointing and although Kehl looks promising Clark is nothing more than a stop gap solution, Pierce will do fine for the next few years but he will only get slower, we also need to get rid of the piece of **** in our secondary named Butler, if someone like Taylor Mays is available when were picking I will piss myself... imagine Taylor Mays and Kenny Phillips in the same secondary both are versatile enough to play either FS or SS, and we would have one of the best young safety tandems in the NFL.

bigbluedefense
10-06-2008, 12:05 PM
If we resign Webster and Jacobs, we really are in a position to go BPA early, which opens up a lot of possibilities for us.

Remember, we have 3 picks in the 1st 2 rounds, we can have a luxury pick in those 3 picks and not miss a beat.

Our only legitimate need is SS. Everything else is just to bolster depth or improve on what is already a solid position.

If we resign our guys, SS followed by OLB are are most "pressing" needs.

But a competent SS is not necessarily a round 1 need, and a playmaking OLB isn't necessarily a round 1 need either.

That opens up the possibilities of going after BPA. Now, while superficially a DE doesn't seem like a need, I believe it is one. Remember, our defense is built on a 3 DE front. If one goes down, like this year, everything we like and want to do on defense changes. Now if we had a quality 4th DE for depth, we don't miss a beat. Thats why its important in my opinion to get another DE in the first 2 rounds. Whether its a 1st, or one of our 2nds, its definitely a high need.


And Reese must feel the same way. Why do you think he wanted Phillip Merling if Phillips wasn't available? Why do you think he initially tried trading Shockey for Jason Taylor? He knows whats up. This team needs 4 DEs.

Mark it down, we're getting a DE early. Especially after witnessing an injury to one our guys this year.

Number 10
10-16-2008, 04:23 PM
Haven't posted here in quite awhile, I am going to start throwing out specific names that have really caught my eye so far this season. Hopefully I'll have a few up by the end of the night.

Turtlepower
10-16-2008, 05:09 PM
Haven't posted here in quite awhile, I am going to start throwing out specific names that have really caught my eye so far this season. Hopefully I'll have a few up by the end of the night.

I'm really pissed that Greg Hardy has finally got his much deserved pub. If he were to somehow fall to us at the end of the 1st, it would just make my day.

But anyone else think that if Geno Atkins declares, he would be an amazing player to have. I don't know if anyone else has seen this guy, but he is arguably my favorite defensive player in the draft after Greg Hardy.

Number 10
10-16-2008, 06:35 PM
Alright I'll start off with some of the offensive guys I really like-

There are two offensive linemen that are likely going to be mid round prospects, guys that I would love to draft as guards even though they are currently playing left tackle. Ryan Stanchek (West Virginia - 6'2 - 300) is a little on the small side but he is a top notch technician, which is one of the reasons the Giants line is so good. He gets his hips in the hole in a blink and plays with outstanding leverage that allows him to hold his ground against strong run stuffers. He is more of a zone blocking type, but don't forget we run a lot of that despite being known for a power run game. He is a guy that could be very effective on traps because he fires out fast and low, and delivers a strong blow to the defender. He is a hard nosed, play through the whistle type, I just see him being a great fit here.

The next guy I like is very similar, but will grade out higher. I noticed him last year when I scouted Roy Schuening at Oregon State. Andy Levitre (6'3 - 317) is one of the stronger blockers I have seen to this point. Once he gets his hands on you, it's over. He has a strong base and doesn't give up an inch of ground, every play. Again, his technique is flawless and the more I see him, the more I think Rich Seubert clone. I know we have our guards locked up for awhile but depth in there is always needed, and he could be a starter down the road in a few years no doubt.

Number 10
10-17-2008, 12:34 PM
I'm with BBD in regard to the DE talk. I think Reese goes after one with one of those first three picks. A couple of guys that have caughy my eye thus far...

There is a guy that I think could really end up dropping right into our laps, no matter where we end up. Tyson Jackson from LSU (6'5 - 290) will get a lot of press clippings but when you compare him to the other top DEs in the draft class, I think his grade is going to be 4-6 from the top of my boards. Now, he might still be a top 20 prospect but there is going to be a trade up in this draft within the top 3 rounds I believe. So if there is a spot where Reese can get Jackson without giving up more than 2 picks, high possibiliy he could get arguably the most diverse DL in the draft.

A guy that will be worth a look in round 2 or 3 is Tim Jamison out of Michigan (6'3-265). I was very impressed with his combination of strength and technique, two things the Giants look for in defensive linemen. He gives a really strong punch at the point of attack and controls the battle with the blocker. You have to question his overall athleticism and ability to reach the passer but he can fool you every now and then with an explosive change of direction from outside to inside shoulder.

A junior that I LOVE...not sure he will come out, Jermaine Cunningham from Florida (6'3 - 250). He is a clone of Justin Tuck technique wise. He plays with tremendous leverage and it allows him to not only hold his ground against bigger offensive tackles, but drive them backwards into the passer. His explosion off the snap is top notch, a la Jarvis Moss, and he already has an adundance of refined pass rush moves. He is a guy that will need a year or two to add bulk like Tuck did before he is an every down guy. But as of right now he looks like he could be a monster.

Number 10
10-18-2008, 02:08 PM
I know we drafted Goff and Kehl, two guys I like, this past April but I think there is a shot we go LB early.

Pierce can give us another solid couple of seasons before there is a thought of replacing him. At that point, I think Kehl could be the guy in the middle because he is so instinctive and smart. Watching the games over and over, you can notice he is one of the few players on this defense that is ALWAYS flowing towards the ball. He is excellent at making reads and while he still needs to improve his physical ability, he can get himself and others into the right spot at the right time. I think that was Reese's intention when drafting him...give depth on the outside and take over the middle when Pierce is done.

Wilkinson, I must admit I just never liked that much. He is good athlete that can cover well, but he isn't the kind of physical LB we need on the weak side. I don't mind him sticking around for depth, but these constant injuries aren't going to help his cause if we re-shape the LB core.

Clark is an average veteran that again, would be a great depth option but as a starter, well it could be upgraded. So now we have both outside spots that are in need of an upgrade if this defense is going to stay on top of the league, and there are a few guys that could be good fits here.

Aaron Curry will be a top 10 pick in April from what I see so far, so I'm going to cross him off the board. The next two LBs that I have on my board as of right now are Brian Cushing (6'3 - 255) and Rey Mauluaga (6'2 - 260). There is a lot of hype surrounding Mauluaga with people putting him in the top 5 of their mock drafts. I don't think there is a chance that happens. He is a good player, but his ceiling is limited and he doesn't grade out across the board like Curry, or Rivers did...Hawk did....etc. He may not be around in the 20's, thus a trade up would be needed but if we could get solid value in moving up, I would love to draft him and see what we have in him and Kehl for the future. I think his best spot is in the middle, which would be fine if we kept Kehl on the weak side in the future. But right away, with Pierce here, Mauluaga could play a beastly strong side and really add another dimension. Outstanding blitzer, outstanding tackler.

Cushing would give us a top tier strong side LB for a long time. I think he has an outside shot at sliding into the top 10 but his injury history could scare a few teams off. Again, the furthest I see him dropping is down to the 23-26 region. Would I trade up for him? Yes. The potential for this kid is arguably higher than any defensive prospect in this class, he can and does do it all.

The depth at LB in this class appears to be pretty thin, thus if we are going to go after one, we may be forced to go after him hard.

bigbluedefense
10-20-2008, 11:19 AM
Im a huge Curry fan. But I doubt we get him.

Ive given up on Wilk. He just can't stay healthy. I think ideally, we need a Lawrence Timmons like WILL in our scheme. Timmons would kill it in our scheme. Good strength, great quickness, good size, and incredible blitzing ability. Thats what we need.

If Michael Johnson can continue to play the way he is at FS, we might just move Phillips to SS in our long term plans, thus eliminating the need for a safety as our 1st priority.

That in my eyes, leaves our "needs" at OLB, DE, and Safety in that order. LT would be great, but is a luxury pick at this point. Id nab one if the right guy falls, but i wouldn't force the pick.

Another guy I really like is George Selvie. He has the kind of speed and pass rushing ability to really make our nickel rush amazing. line him up at LE on 3rd down and have him stretch that RT as much as he can off the edge. That allows our stunts and inside guys more space to operate. He's also a hell of a natural pass rusher.

giantsfan
10-20-2008, 12:25 PM
I'm with BBD in regard to the DE talk. I think Reese goes after one with one of those first three picks. A couple of guys that have caughy my eye thus far...

There is a guy that I think could really end up dropping right into our laps, no matter where we end up. Tyson Jackson from LSU (6'5 - 290) will get a lot of press clippings but when you compare him to the other top DEs in the draft class, I think his grade is going to be 4-6 from the top of my boards. Now, he might still be a top 20 prospect but there is going to be a trade up in this draft within the top 3 rounds I believe. So if there is a spot where Reese can get Jackson without giving up more than 2 picks, high possibiliy he could get arguably the most diverse DL in the draft.

A guy that will be worth a look in round 2 or 3 is Tim Jamison out of Michigan (6'3-265). I was very impressed with his combination of strength and technique, two things the Giants look for in defensive linemen. He gives a really strong punch at the point of attack and controls the battle with the blocker. You have to question his overall athleticism and ability to reach the passer but he can fool you every now and then with an explosive change of direction from outside to inside shoulder.

A junior that I LOVE...not sure he will come out, Jermaine Cunningham from Florida (6'3 - 250). He is a clone of Justin Tuck technique wise. He plays with tremendous leverage and it allows him to not only hold his ground against bigger offensive tackles, but drive them backwards into the passer. His explosion off the snap is top notch, a la Jarvis Moss, and he already has an adundance of refined pass rush moves. He is a guy that will need a year or two to add bulk like Tuck did before he is an every down guy. But as of right now he looks like he could be a monster.

I'm a gators fan so I've been trying not to be a homer about him, but Cunningham is going to be a beast unless he hits any major roadblocks like sever injuries or horrible coaching. He's similar to Selvie but he's got a bigger frame which is why I'm certain he can bulk up to 270 and retain that nasty explosion.

Not a big Jackson fan, although LSU is the only SEC school who I actually like when they're not playing florida, but Jackson seems like Carricker with a narrower chest and shoulders.

Im a huge Curry fan. But I doubt we get him.

Ive given up on Wilk. He just can't stay healthy. I think ideally, we need a Lawrence Timmons like WILL in our scheme. Timmons would kill it in our scheme. Good strength, great quickness, good size, and incredible blitzing ability. Thats what we need.

If Michael Johnson can continue to play the way he is at FS, we might just move Phillips to SS in our long term plans, thus eliminating the need for a safety as our 1st priority.

That in my eyes, leaves our "needs" at OLB, DE, and Safety in that order. LT would be great, but is a luxury pick at this point. Id nab one if the right guy falls, but i wouldn't force the pick.

Another guy I really like is George Selvie. He has the kind of speed and pass rushing ability to really make our nickel rush amazing. line him up at LE on 3rd down and have him stretch that RT as much as he can off the edge. That allows our stunts and inside guys more space to operate. He's also a hell of a natural pass rusher.

If there's any way we can trade up for selvie without giving away our entire draft it'd be a steal. He's so quick and explosive and such a natural pass rusher. Hell he could be our starting SLB, keep kiwi at DE and if Tuck can add 10 pounds without slowing down have him start as an UT. That'd be 4 disgustingly good pass rushers in our starting lineup, if we were to do this I think adding a massive NT in round 2 to easy tuck's burden against the run would be very important, a guy like Terrance Taylor or Cody would be great and we'd still have another pick to go after another safety or OL.

bigbluedefense
10-24-2008, 08:48 PM
first big board of mine.

Michael Oher
Greg Hardy
Eugene Monroe
George Selvie
Taylor Mays
Phil Loadholt
Tyson Jackson
Terrance Taylor


I haven't payed attention to any LBs yet. So far, if i had my choice of one player its Oher, although i doubt he falls in the draft.

Greg Hardy is my favorite realistic player that we might be able to trade into the early 20s to get. George Selvie is another guy i love.

Greg Hardy is my favorite though. My 3 favorite impact players are Oher, Hardy and Selvie.

skiinginNJ
10-25-2008, 10:38 PM
first big board of mine.

Michael Oher
Greg Hardy
Eugene Monroe
George Selvie
Taylor Mays
Phil Loadholt
Tyson Jackson
Terrance Taylor


I haven't payed attention to any LBs yet. So far, if i had my choice of one player its Oher, although i doubt he falls in the draft.

Greg Hardy is my favorite realistic player that we might be able to trade into the early 20s to get. George Selvie is another guy i love.

Greg Hardy is my favorite though. My 3 favorite impact players are Oher, Hardy and Selvie.



kid is the truth. some people will complain about the lack of production, but he has the tools and can lay the lumber.

scottyboy
10-25-2008, 10:46 PM
i really wish we didn't pick Manningham last year. that way we'd have a chance at drafting Kenny Britt if he enters...*sigh*

skiinginNJ
10-25-2008, 10:51 PM
i really wish we didn't pick Manningham last year. that way we'd have a chance at drafting Kenny Britt if he enters...*sigh*


hey, who knows what happens with plax after this season

scottyboy
10-25-2008, 11:02 PM
hey, who knows what happens with plax after this season

well he is getting older, but I HIGHLY doubt he isn't a giant next year. Amani is aging, but has said befire he's got some years left in him. I'd LOVE Britt, he's gonna be so good. He's got speed for a big guy and is a nasty blocker. Smith, Moss and Manningham are more speedsters. After Plax and Amani, we don't have any other big possession guys

skiinginNJ
10-25-2008, 11:22 PM
well he is getting older, but I HIGHLY doubt he isn't a giant next year. Amani is aging, but has said befire he's got some years left in him. I'd LOVE Britt, he's gonna be so good. He's got speed for a big guy and is a nasty blocker. Smith, Moss and Manningham are more speedsters. After Plax and Amani, we don't have any other big possession guys


i agree, but with plax it might be an option if his behavior continues. IIRC, his contract extension was heavily front-loaded for this year so that wont be much of a problem. we should at least see whats out there for him. it would likely have to be a rd1 or at east an early 2 for the giants to even consider.



i like britt's package more than anyone in the nation, save DHB, at this point. he is big, strong, and fast

Giantsfan1080
10-26-2008, 10:03 AM
well he is getting older, but I HIGHLY doubt he isn't a giant next year. Amani is aging, but has said befire he's got some years left in him. I'd LOVE Britt, he's gonna be so good. He's got speed for a big guy and is a nasty blocker. Smith, Moss and Manningham are more speedsters. After Plax and Amani, we don't have any other big possession guys

I think Smith is more of a possesion guy than a speedster.

scottyboy
10-26-2008, 10:27 AM
I think Smith is more of a possesion guy than a speedster.

true, true. But he's not a BIG physicall possesion guy ala Plax or even Amani in terms of size. He's an excellent slot guy now and Eli is very comfortable with him. He'll assume the #2 role from Amani with ease.

My concern is we all know Plax is pretty injury prone, has attitude problems and isn't exactly a spring chicken. I'd like to get another big target in there in case of an injury *knock on wood* or if something else happens.

that's just me though, I favor bigger WR's and like the physical big guys opposed to the small, shity speedsters(ala Moss and Manningham).

or maybe I'm blinding my views cuz i REALLY want Kenny! <3

Giantsfan1080
10-26-2008, 10:32 AM
true, true. But he's not a BIG physicall possesion guy ala Plax or even Amani in terms of size. He's an excellent slot guy now and Eli is very comfortable with him. He'll assume the #2 role from Amani with ease.

My concern is we all know Plax is pretty injury prone, has attitude problems and isn't exactly a spring chicken. I'd like to get another big target in there in case of an injury *knock on wood* or if something else happens.

that's just me though, I favor bigger WR's and like the physical big guys opposed to the small, shity speedsters(ala Moss and Manningham).

or maybe I'm blinding my views cuz i REALLY want Kenny! <3

As you know I'd be a very happy man if we picked up Britt as well. Maybe he'll stay an extra year(doubt it) and then we'll get him in 2 years when it would be more of a need.

Turtlepower
10-26-2008, 10:45 AM
I guess another reason for me wanting the Giants to draft a DE is that I completely feel Kiwi just isn't that great. I've never really liked him, but I was starting to support him a bit at SLB last season. I still think if he wants a future on the team he has to go back to that position because I don't think he brings a lot as our 3rd DE.

giantsfan
10-26-2008, 08:51 PM
first big board of mine.

Michael Oher
Greg Hardy
Eugene Monroe
George Selvie
Taylor Mays
Phil Loadholt
Tyson Jackson
Terrance Taylor

If you're including guys we have no shot at how are Orakpo and William Moore not on that list? I'd go

Orakpo, DE
Oher, LT
A. Smith, LT
Hardy, DE
Monroe, LT
Moore, SS
Selvie, DE/OLB
Curry, OLB
Mays, S
Marks, DT
Michael Johnson, DE
Tyson Jackson, DE/DT
Loadholt, OT
Meredith, LT/LG
Mack, C
Vince Oghabaase, NT
Terrance Taylor, NT

I guess another reason for me wanting the Giants to draft a DE is that I completely feel Kiwi just isn't that great. I've never really liked him, but I was starting to support him a bit at SLB last season. I still think if he wants a future on the team he has to go back to that position because I don't think he brings a lot as our 3rd DE.

Three sacks of big ben. I've said it before and I'll say it again Kiwi has the potential to be our best pass rusher by far. He has Osi's explosiveness, but with his longer arms can better keep tackles off of him, shed blockers and bat down passes.

scottyboy
10-26-2008, 08:53 PM
with our team right now, we really have the luxury to go BPA except for QB. We've got talent and youth, but mroe never hurts. I think if a RB falls to us, we may grab one early, especially if Ward bolts.

giantsfan
10-26-2008, 08:55 PM
with our team right now, we really have the luxury to go BPA except for QB. We've got talent and youth, but mroe never hurts. I think if a RB falls to us, we may grab one early, especially if Ward bolts.

I think we have tiered luxuries. SS is really the only need and if Johnson shows he can be a successful FS we might just have KP playing SS and leave it at that.

The top tier of luxuries for me is DE, NT, OL
The next tier is LB, RB, TE and Corner

bigbluedefense
10-27-2008, 10:43 AM
If you're including guys we have no shot at how are Orakpo and William Moore not on that list? I'd go

Orakpo, DE
Oher, LT
A. Smith, LT
Hardy, DE
Monroe, LT
Moore, SS
Selvie, DE/OLB
Curry, OLB
Mays, S
Marks, DT
Michael Johnson, DE
Tyson Jackson, DE/DT
Loadholt, OT
Meredith, LT/LG
Mack, C
Vince Oghabaase, NT
Terrance Taylor, NT



Three sacks of big ben. I've said it before and I'll say it again Kiwi has the potential to be our best pass rusher by far. He has Osi's explosiveness, but with his longer arms can better keep tackles off of him, shed blockers and bat down passes.

I only mention Oher and Monroe bc theres a chance one of them slips to the middle of the 1st or later depending on whether Smith comes out, and how teams feel about Oher's mental ability. I list them as trading possibilities.

Orakpo, he's a top 10 pick easy.

My favorite player right now is Greg Hardy. I want him badly. Theres also a chance he can slip depending on his workout numbers. He doesn't seem to be the fastest, so who knows.

Another guy who can slip is Selvie. He's great, but very undersized. Its not out of this world to see him slip into the 20s. The boards fluctuate so much that theres no way to know who's gonna slip and who's a solid top 10 pick at this time during the year.

Remember Allan Branch was supposed to be a top 10 pick easily. He fell to the 2nd pick in the 2nd round.

Turtlepower
10-27-2008, 10:48 AM
BBD, I'm with you on Hardy. He will most likely slip due to injuries and overblown character concerns. I still see Greg Hardy as the best DE prospect since Mario Williams.

bigbluedefense
10-27-2008, 10:53 AM
BBD, I'm with you on Hardy. He will most likely slip due to injuries and overblown character concerns. I still see Greg Hardy as the best DE prospect since Mario Williams.

Out of all the DEs, I like him the best. His ability against the run and the pass, his strength and speed, technique, long arms, he's going to be a beast.

I wouldn't mind Selvie either. He'd be an instant impact to our 3rd down pass rush.

Michael Johnson: eh. If any team can fix him, it would be us. But he's a gamble. I think we could cure his lack of motor by making him a situational rusher, but after seeing Vernon Gholston this year, id shy away.

Forenci
10-27-2008, 01:12 PM
On a personal note a guy I would love to see brought in on the second day would be William Beatty from UConn. He's got superb size at 6'6, 300+ and has really been critical in helping Donald Brown be second in the nation in rushing yards.

I could really see him being a guy down the line who could replace Kareem at right tackle, and he has versatility to move around and play the guard postions. He's a really physical blocker which I love, too.

Just a guy to look out for. Though I'm sure Scottyboy will disagree since he is from UConn.

giantsfan
10-27-2008, 03:36 PM
I'm really curious as to which DE slides to our pick. I'd be ecstatic with Hardy, Selvie or Michael Johnson, in that order, in the first and in the second my two dream picks are Big O (Oghabaase) and Kam Chancellor. That's assuming no elite olineman like Mack, Duke or Meredith slide out of the first.

giantsfan
10-28-2008, 04:12 AM
1st Round: Georgie Selvie, DE/OLB
Tollefson's playing well and may end up changing my mind but I want to see him beat a good oline and show some consistency before I'm comfortable with him as the primary backup to the DE Trio. Selvie could slide to this pick due size limitations but he's got a very quick first, a pretty well developed set of pass rush moves and a drive to get to the QB. Could also play with his hand up a little bit to let spags move him around. If Hardy some how magically fell to this pick I'd grab him first, btu I can't imagine that happening. Michael Johnson and then Tyson Jackson would be my next two choices if Selvie's off the board.

2nd Round A: Kam Chancellor, S
Johnson's horrible pursuit angles mean he can't play SS, Kam Chancellor can. He's also a big fast great triangle numbers guy, but Chancellor plays up to his measureables on the field and reacts quickly and effectively. He's easily the number three safety in this class and I'm just hoping he lasts this long otherwise if he's gone there's always Patrick Chung who should be available.

2nd Round B: Vince Oghabaase, DT
Big O has very good size and strength to go with a really good explosion. His level of opposition is a concern but one that'll be rectified with seasoning. I doubt he lasts this long but he'd be great for our run stuffing and could quickly earn himself a starting spot. If he's gone I'm looking at Terrance Taylor, BJ Raji and Phil Moala.

Third Round: Antoine Caldwell/Max Unger, C/OG
We could use a C to groom behind O'Hara while also pushing Seubert for the LG spot and giving us better all around depth. One of the two will probably last this long.

Fourth Round: Clay Matthews, OLB/DE
Matthews could earn the backup SLB gig as a rookie and play on obvious passing downs with his hand down, or atleast become part of the rotation. As a LB he'd be strong against the run while also being a good pass rusher and hopefully with work effective in zone. If he's gone I like Cody Brown and Kenny Mainor as day two DE's who would probably be better of as Linebackers or situational rushers, so they could provide depth for kiwi and our pass rush.

Fifth Round: Rashad Jennings/Brandon Ore/Ian Johnson, RB
I doubt both Brandon Jacobs and Derrick Ward are back next season so adding a third RB to our committee would be a good move. I like Rashad Jennings' production and measureables. Haven't seen him play but at this point in the draft he'd be an intriguing pick. If Jacobs leaves I think we'd give Ward the starting nod, have Bradshaw be his backup and bring in a rookie SYB to groom. If on the other Ward is the one to leave we'd be looking for more of a do it all natural RB and Brandon Ore and Ian Johnson get strong consideration. Both would be behind Bradshaw but would get some touches early and good schooling.

Sixth Round: Jared Bronson, TE
Like the measureables, limited production but as a lat rounder he'd be contributing on special teams and be brought along slowly as they teach him to block. Really just looking for a nice project who can contribute on special teams early.

Seventh Round: Special Teamer
I dunno...maybe

QB - Eli/Woodson/Carr
RB - Jacobs/Bradshaw/Johnson
FB - Hedgecock
WR - Plax/Hixon/Smith/Mario/Moss
TE - Boss/Matthews/Bronson

LT - Diehl/Whimper
LG - Seubert/Cantwell
OC - O'Hara/Ruegmer
RG - Snee/Boothe
RT - McKenzie/Olivea/Koens

LE - Tuck/Tollefson
DT - Cofield/Alford
DT - Robbins/Oghabaase
RE - Osi/Selvie

SLB - Kiwi/Matthews/DeOzzie
MLB - Pierce/Blackburn
WLB - Kehl/Wilkinson/Goff

CB - Webster/Ross/Thomas/Dockery
FS - Michael Johnson/Kam Chancellor
SS - Kenny Phillips//James Butler

Damix
10-28-2008, 08:35 AM
Woodson was released from our PS and Olivea was cut in TC.

bigbluedefense
10-28-2008, 10:47 AM
Id love to nab George Selvie. He's the one DE in the 1st RD that I think we can realistically move up to get. My first choice is Hardy of course, but that looks less and less likely. Selvie might fall to 20ish.

Worst case scenario (draftwise) is the 32nd pick. If we trade our 1st and 2nd from NO we can move up to early 20s, maybe even late teens. Thats enough to nab a guy like Selvie.

I think we're in position as a team to be aggressive in this draft. And dammit, NO needs to lose! :)

Giantsfan1080
10-28-2008, 01:17 PM
What's the exact deal with our NO trade. Is Vilma doing well enough to get their 1st? I'm not sure what the exact parameters were for us to get the 1st instead of the 2nd.

Turtlepower
10-28-2008, 01:21 PM
What's the exact deal with our NO trade. Is Vilma doing well enough to get their 1st? I'm not sure what the exact parameters were for us to get the 1st instead of the 2nd.

From what I understand is that they have to resign Vilma during FA and then we would get a 1st round pick in 2010. He also has to play 85% of the defensive plays this season. I think he'll play the 85%, but I don't expect the Saints to not resign him before FA period begins.

Giantsfan1080
10-28-2008, 01:22 PM
From what I understand is that they have to resign Vilma during FA and then we would get a 1st round pick in 2010. He also has to play 85% of the defensive plays this season. I think he'll play the 85%, but I don't expect the Saints to not resign him before FA period begins.

So we'd get a 2010 1st instead of a 2009 2nd though?

Turtlepower
10-28-2008, 01:23 PM
So we'd get a 2010 1st instead of a 2009 2nd though?

Yes, but I'm not sure about what happens to our 5th round pick this year.

bigbluedefense
10-28-2008, 01:48 PM
Yes, but I'm not sure about what happens to our 5th round pick this year.

its either a 2nd and 5th this year, or just a 1st in 2010.

chances are its a 2nd and 5th.

Turtlepower
10-28-2008, 02:46 PM
its either a 2nd and 5th this year, or just a 1st in 2010.

chances are its a 2nd and 5th.

If the Saints let it be a 1st in 2010, then they might have the most inept FO in the NFL.

Malaka
10-28-2008, 08:56 PM
A player I have really been intrigued with lately is Willie Williams out of Union College, does anyone else see the Giants maybe taking him as 6th or 7th round pick. He has huge character concerns, but so did Ahmad Bradshaw (not as big). He was the #1 LB prospect out high school in 04'. He is a LB/DE he is a great pass rusher, though his size is not great for a 4-3 DE, he is a very good LB, and can be used in our Aces set as a situational pass rusher, I'd really like this pick, but his character concerns are bigger than Ahmad's so it is a risky pick.

giantsfan
10-29-2008, 12:38 AM
A player I have really been intrigued with lately is Willie Williams out of Union College, does anyone else see the Giants maybe taking him as 6th or 7th round pick. He has huge character concerns, but so did Ahmad Bradshaw (not as big). He was the #1 LB prospect out high school in 04'. He is a LB/DE he is a great pass rusher, though his size is not great for a 4-3 DE, he is a very good LB, and can be used in our Aces set as a situational pass rusher, I'd really like this pick, but his character concerns are bigger than Ahmad's so it is a risky pick.

His character concerns are huge. he has all the talent in the world but I just don't know if he'll ever put it all together, if we don't go for a LB earlier I could see us nabbing him towards the end of the draft, but I would have no expectations from him.

skiinginNJ
11-02-2008, 08:13 PM
seeing what the lions got for roy williams, i think you have to at least look into moving plax if he doesnt shape up his attitude. williams is significantly younger, but he also had to be signed to a contract extension and IMO isnt as good a player as plax is



if you can get a 1st, i think this team is better when we are spreading the ball around as opposed to having plax be the big #1 guy

giantsfan
11-03-2008, 08:48 AM
seeing what the lions got for roy williams, i think you have to at least look into moving plax if he doesnt shape up his attitude. williams is significantly younger, but he also had to be signed to a contract extension and IMO isnt as good a player as plax is



if you can get a 1st, i think this team is better when we are spreading the ball around as opposed to having plax be the big #1 guy

I think you're severily under-rating the impact plax has on coverage schemes, he is the guy team's focus on which gives our other guys more room to operate and be successful.

bigbluedefense
11-03-2008, 05:58 PM
I was thinking about this just now, and let's go over the scenarios.

-If Michael Johnson continues to grow, we might not need a day 1 SS.
-If Tollefson continues to grow, we might not need a DE.
-If Terrell Thomas pans out, we won't need a nickel CB.
-If Diehl keeps playing the way he does (he will), we don't need an LT
-If we resign Jacobs and Webster, we don't need a RB or CB.

So what needs would we really have?

-Future RT
-Depth at OG
-Mid Round Safety for depth
-OLB
-DT

Considering the scenarios, and how they are all very realistic scenarios, we are potentially looking at BPA in every round. Now the only glaring need might be OLB, but I don't know if this draft class will have the type of stud available late in the 1st that would validate a 1st round selection over BPA.

DT is also a need. Robbins is getting old, and we could use a stud penetrating DT or dominant NT. But a 1st round need? No.

We could potentially really have no 1st round need this year. Which really opens the door for us. If I had to guess what would be our needs come offseason, it would probably be between SS, WILL, CB and RB. But we could very well not need any of them either. It would be really sweet if we are in a position to BPA this year.

It would really add to our depth and overall talent level. Anytime you can go BPA throughout the draft and not have to worry about depth issues, its a great thing. We might be able to achieve that this year.

giantsfan
11-04-2008, 02:04 AM
I was thinking about this just now, and let's go over the scenarios.

-If Michael Johnson continues to grow, we might not need a day 1 SS.
-If Tollefson continues to grow, we might not need a DE.
-If Terrell Thomas pans out, we won't need a nickel CB.
-If Diehl keeps playing the way he does (he will), we don't need an LT
-If we resign Jacobs and Webster, we don't need a RB or CB.

So what needs would we really have?

-Future RT
-Depth at OG
-Mid Round Safety for depth
-OLB
-DT

Considering the scenarios, and how they are all very realistic scenarios, we are potentially looking at BPA in every round. Now the only glaring need might be OLB, but I don't know if this draft class will have the type of stud available late in the 1st that would validate a 1st round selection over BPA.

DT is also a need. Robbins is getting old, and we could use a stud penetrating DT or dominant NT. But a 1st round need? No.

We could potentially really have no 1st round need this year. Which really opens the door for us. If I had to guess what would be our needs come offseason, it would probably be between SS, WILL, CB and RB. But we could very well not need any of them either. It would be really sweet if we are in a position to BPA this year.

It would really add to our depth and overall talent level. Anytime you can go BPA throughout the draft and not have to worry about depth issues, its a great thing. We might be able to achieve that this year.

Yeah I think we'll be in a great position to turn some spots into strengths with impressive depth. I'm still hoping we cna grab a DE, DT and S on day one because having another young stud at each of those spots would be great, but only if the value and the fits are good.

skiinginNJ
11-15-2008, 09:16 PM
can we just bring brian cushing home already?

Forenci
11-15-2008, 09:33 PM
Cushing scares me way too much. I love his talent but the guys injury problem scare me. I wouldn't be opposed to it. He is a beast and would be a steal assuming we are picking quite late.

giantsfan
11-15-2008, 10:15 PM
I like cushing but i still like one of the first round DEs more. we usually don't start rookies much so you've gotta figure even if we were to grab a guy like Cush we'd still be starting kiwi or some stop gap at SAM, why not just make Kiwi the full time same and nab another end to groom who can battle tollefson for PT and really keep our nasty edge depth up.

skiinginNJ
11-16-2008, 01:03 AM
cushing is simply a way better LB than kiwi, but i dont see them moving kiwi back to LB anyway.


another thing to remember about cushing is that he has experience playing DE, and also has the size to possibly put his hand down on 3rd down. not an ideal situation, but certainly plausible. he has a lot of experience going after the QB too, so he would fit perfectly in our system. i dont see us taking a DE in round 1 unless someone really drops, since DE is strong on our team and our LB's outside pierce are pretty much JAG's


the injury concerns could be a problem, but at 28-32 he would be a sick pick. i also think he is going to blow up the combine, so i dont know if he will even be there when we pick

giantsfan
11-16-2008, 07:21 PM
cushing is simply a way better LB than kiwi, but i dont see them moving kiwi back to LB anyway.

another thing to remember about cushing is that he has experience playing DE, and also has the size to possibly put his hand down on 3rd down. not an ideal situation, but certainly plausible. he has a lot of experience going after the QB too, so he would fit perfectly in our system. i dont see us taking a DE in round 1 unless someone really drops, since DE is strong on our team and our LB's outside pierce are pretty much JAG's


the injury concerns could be a problem, but at 28-32 he would be a sick pick. i also think he is going to blow up the combine, so i dont know if he will even be there when we pick

With the way Kiwi was looking before Osi's injury and how well he's been playing I think kiwi has to be in the starting lineup. Plus I'm not sure Kiwi isn't better than cush at everything except for covering guys, if the light had really come on interms of reading the run like it looked.

Again I like cush a lot and won't complain but I think grabbing a Selvie, mays, oghobaase or Meredith could very well be a much better value.

skiinginNJ
11-17-2008, 02:40 PM
With the way Kiwi was looking before Osi's injury and how well he's been playing I think kiwi has to be in the starting lineup. Plus I'm not sure Kiwi isn't better than cush at everything except for covering guys, if the light had really come on interms of reading the run like it looked.

Again I like cush a lot and won't complain but I think grabbing a Selvie, mays, oghobaase or Meredith could very well be a much better value.


well kiwi has looked very good at DE, but he still had a long way to go as a LB. cushing (predictably since he actually plays LB) is really better at everything at the LB position than kiwi (except for possibly rushing the passer). he is better in coverage, he is much more fluid and changes directions better, and he has better instincts.

Kiwi has been very good at DE this year, but DE and LB are different positions and i just dont see them going back to that experiment. i think the only reason they really did it was because they had 3 DE's to rotate already so adding a 4th would restrict his development. i think they will just rotate all 3 in and out to keep them fresh and healthy

bigbluedefense
11-17-2008, 02:50 PM
i wouldn't touch Cushing. too injury prone. i think Kiwi was making huge strides at LB, and I think we move him back there when Osi comes back.

Im hoping Hardy or Selvie fall, if not, then we probably go BA LB in round 1.

Michael Johnson is developing fast enough that Im taking SS off our board in the first 2 rounds.


Don't sleep on CBs though. If we lose Webster, CB instantly becomes our biggest need.

If we lose both Jacobs and Ward, we need a RB as well.

Forenci
11-17-2008, 04:14 PM
i wouldn't touch Cushing. too injury prone. i think Kiwi was making huge strides at LB, and I think we move him back there when Osi comes back.

Im hoping Hardy or Selvie fall, if not, then we probably go BA LB in round 1.

Michael Johnson is developing fast enough that Im taking SS off our board in the first 2 rounds.


Don't sleep on CBs though. If we lose Webster, CB instantly becomes our biggest need.

If we lose both Jacobs and Ward, we need a RB as well.

If we lose Webster, or even if we don't, I would LOVE to draft Darius Butler from UConn. He's physical, has blazing speed, great hands, he's very fluid in coverage, and he plays the run like a safety.

bigbluedefense
11-24-2008, 11:11 AM
Michael Johnson has improved tremendously this year. He's been another great find for us. With him playing the way he has, I think we can remove SS from our need list within the first 2 rounds.

And if anything, we can sign Dawan Landry in FA. So I think SS is slowly becoming a position where we just need depth, not a starter.

LT is another position that we can scratch. We don't talk about it, but David Diehl is a PB caliber LT. He is what Jake Long could become. So now LT is essentially a luxury pick for us, id say its more important to develop a RT prospect to replace McKenzie in the coming years.

I think if you want to pinpoint specific needs right now, assuming we resign all our guys (big if), OLB followed by DT are our 2 major needs.

Letting go of Kawika Mitchell was a mistake. He's beasting it this year for Buffalo, and watching him play, he was perfect for our system and team. We made a mistake letting him go.

Right here right now, id be in favor of going BPA every round but thats assuming we resign all our guys.

I can see CB and RB becoming potential needs for us this offseason. I really hope we don't lose Webster, we need him back. And more than ever, Im convinced that we need Jacobs back too.

Turtlepower
11-24-2008, 11:13 AM
I also wonder what we will do with Kiwi because if he moves back to SLB, then I could argue DE being a first day priority. Tollefson has been very unimpressive the past few weeks and I wouldn't mind taking a DE in this amazing DE class.

bigbluedefense
11-24-2008, 11:17 AM
Greg Hardy ftw.

Kiwi will play SAM on 1st and 2nd down and DE on 3rd down like our initial plans with him. I doubt that changes.

We need that 4th DE however, and Hardy is so perfect.

I can see Terrance Taylor slipping to round 2. I wouldn't mind nabbing him then. In my eyes, Coffield is nothing more than a solid but not spectacular NT for us.

Taylor would be an upgrade in my eyes.

Geo
11-24-2008, 11:24 AM
Taylor has been poor this year. Maybe he needs to get fat again to be effective.

bigbluedefense
11-24-2008, 11:29 AM
i really want Greg Hardy to be honest. Id trade our 1st and 2nd to get him. He can beast it at LE, and he's big and strong enough to play UT for us on 3rd down.

I wouldn't even mind having a 4-3 front with him in at UT on all 3 downs. Or move Tuck there on all 3 downs and Hardy outside.

He's big and strong, and fast, and has a motor, great technique, long arms, he's a beast. He's my favorite DE prospect since Mario Williams.

Even if we just use him in sub packages, I can see him having a huge impact on our defense. The thought of having Osi, Tuck, Kiwi and him on the dline on 3rd down is crazy. You can't block that.

I can't see us keeping all of our DEs long term anyway. So once Kiwi's contract is up, we still have Hardy and we can always just draft another DE. Keep em coming and keep stocking them up.

Geo
11-24-2008, 11:30 AM
I thought there was some question about Hardy's motor? Or was it character?

Also maybe durability. Has played very little this year because of an earlier injury, but looks like a force when he does get a handful of snaps to pass rush.

bigbluedefense
11-24-2008, 11:35 AM
I thought there was some question about Hardy's motor? Or was it character?

Also maybe durability. Has played very little this year because of an earlier injury, but looks like a force when he does get a handful of snaps to pass rush.

character and durability. i heard his character concerns are blown out of proportion, and durability shouldn't be too much of an issue, we'd probably only use him in sub packages anyway.

same goes for motor. because he probably wouldn't be an every down player for us (even though ive never heard of motor issues), limiting his snaps would most likely cure any potential motor issues.

for us its strictly a luxury pick, for certain teams i think a player of his potential is a guy you can't pass up. i honestly don't expect him to fall to us even if we trade to get him, but im just a huge fan of his.

I wouldn't mind George Selvie either. Thats probably more realistic, bc he'll slip do to size concerns. He could bulk up for us while just being a pass rush specialist.

But if i can have any defensive player in this draft, id probably choose Orakpo (no chance in hell), followed by Hardy. Im just a huge Hardy fan.

Geo
11-24-2008, 11:38 AM
Check out Florida State DE Everette Brown, if you get the chance. He's quite raw as a pass rusher, but he has real potential imo with pro DL coaching to expand and develop his repertoire and ability. He has a motor.

bigbluedefense
11-24-2008, 11:41 AM
Check out Florida State DE Everette Brown, if you get the chance. He's quite raw as a pass rusher, but he has real potential imo with pro DL coaching to expand and develop his repertoire and ability. He has a motor.

will do.

one thing to note when i talk college football is: i rarely really get to watch college football. so my knowledge on prospects is not nearly as vast as some other people here.

my stance on Hardy comes from watching 2 of his games basically, and from judging that i really really like what i see. but im by no means an expert on college football. i don't watch enough of it to be one.

Geo
11-24-2008, 11:46 AM
I hear you. I heard about Brown before, but he only came up on my radar in the last three weeks or so when I finally got to see some of him on TV.

scottyboy
11-24-2008, 02:35 PM
JUST SAY NO TO SELVIE!!!

I'm warming up to a guy like Hardy though, even Brown. We NEED to re-sign Webster and Jacobs. Like NOW!! They should be our 1a and 1b priorities, with Toomer being 2. Johnson and Phillips are a very nice young safety duo, and snag a Courtney Greene round 2 or 3? AWESOME! Ward is nice, but Jacobs is just so good and perfect for us. We can replace Ward with a RB in rounds 1-4 really. Even later, plus we've got Bradshaw.

Webster, Jacobs and Toomer. Our 3 main guys. Lock 'em up Reese!

giantsfan
11-24-2008, 03:06 PM
Check out Florida State DE Everette Brown, if you get the chance. He's quite raw as a pass rusher, but he has real potential imo with pro DL coaching to expand and develop his repertoire and ability. He has a motor.

I doubt Brown slips into our range, Personnally I'm getting the feeling that if Michael Johnson doesn't dominate the combine Brown will be the second DE off the board. I'd love to have Hardy but Selvie's incredibly quick and would be a great second option.

If we get a shot at Vince Oghobaase I think he'd be a great pick also, could play NT for us but he's got long arms and a great first step that could make him an effective interior penetrator as well. I really love this kid even though playing at Duke he doesn't get enough hype.

Giantsfan1080
11-24-2008, 03:45 PM
JUST SAY NO TO SELVIE!!!

I'm warming up to a guy like Hardy though, even Brown. We NEED to re-sign Webster and Jacobs. Like NOW!! They should be our 1a and 1b priorities, with Toomer being 2. Johnson and Phillips are a very nice young safety duo, and snag a Courtney Greene round 2 or 3? AWESOME! Ward is nice, but Jacobs is just so good and perfect for us. We can replace Ward with a RB in rounds 1-4 really. Even later, plus we've got Bradshaw.

Webster, Jacobs and Toomer. Our 3 main guys. Lock 'em up Reese!

What if we didn't sign Toomer to get Britt. That would be quite the dilemma for you.

bigbluedefense
12-02-2008, 08:33 PM
i guess WR could potentially be a need </3 :(

bigbluedefense
12-02-2008, 08:38 PM
Oh and whats everyone's thoughts on Kaluka Maiava? I like him as a player. He's always around the ball, physical, fast, I think he'd look good in Giant blue.

Isn't he a senior? I don't see him on Scott's board.

Turtlepower
12-02-2008, 08:52 PM
i guess WR could potentially be a need </3 :(

Sammie Stroughter from Oregon State. Not only is he a fantastic receiver and returner, he also just made the PAC-10 All-Academic team. =D

bigbluedefense
12-02-2008, 08:54 PM
Yes, I want smart WRs who have hands, great route running, and shut up and play. Is that too much to ask? :(

Oh and speed.

Turtlepower
12-02-2008, 09:00 PM
Ok, the more I watch him the more I like him. I wouldn't even mind using the Saints 2nd on him b/c I'm afraid he might not be available at the end of the 2nd.

0mj72V5WzW0

bigbluedefense
12-02-2008, 09:02 PM
No one knows anything about Kaluka Maiava? I saw him against Notre Dame, and he was all over the field. I was very impressed. Thoughts?

scottyboy
12-02-2008, 09:03 PM
stroughter is nasty, but he'll fall. Britt with the Saints 2nd or our 1st makes too much sense. keeps a Rutgers boy home, he's big, with great speed and playmaking ability.

skiinginNJ
12-03-2008, 12:47 AM
No one knows anything about Kaluka Maiava? I saw him against Notre Dame, and he was all over the field. I was very impressed. Thoughts?


i like him too, i see him quite often watching a lot of USC. he kinda gets lost in the shuffle a lot, considering how good rey rey and cushing are, but all he does is make plays. he is probably a mid rounder depending on how he tests and if people are able to get over him not being able to beat out rey, cush, and rivers for a LB spot

giantsfan
12-03-2008, 02:10 AM
was just toying around with what we'd do if amani retired and we ended up cutting plax and here's what I came up with:

Cut Plax creating 25 mill in cap space, unless of course we can get something for him through trade.

extend Eli taking up about 4-5 mil more in cap space.
Re-Sign Jacobs with a cap charge around 4-5 mil
Let Ward Walk
Amani retires after a repeat
Re-sign Corey Webster hopefully another 4-5 mil against the cap if he's looking for a huge pay day look at Bartell and McFadden as alternatives.

Sign Bryant Johnson for three year deal averaging around 2 mill per with performance bonuses
Sign Michael Boley or Leroy Hill

Re-structure with vets like kareem McKenzie and AP to create a little more room for our rookies.

Draft
1st - Vince Oghobaase, DT
Dude's got Haynesworth potential with his size and explosiveness. He gets good leverage for his height as well which'll let him be force against the run and pass.

2nd - Patrick Chung, S
He's a very smart safety who has good range and can play physically and support against the run. Love having him battling with MJ for the spot next to KP and gives us more depth and versatility on D.

2nd - Max Unger, OL
Great oline depth

Third - Brandon Tate, WR
I think this kid would easily have been the best senior WR had he been healthy, he has good size and speed while being very consistent with his hands and sharp with his cuts.

4th - Clay Matthews, OLB
I love his versatility although I don't ever see a starter. ST beast, good backup SLB and rotational pass rusher.

5th - Rashad Jennings, RB or Ian Johnson, RB
Two different backs I like. Jennings is major load and at the same time moves his feet quickly and can really move while providing some more power for when BJ's off the field.

6th - Fenuki Tupou, RT
A big Tackle to prepare behind McKenzie.

7th - Drew Willy, QB
DREW!!!!!!!!! Goes to my school!!!!

QB - Eli / Carr / Willy
RB - Jacobs / Bradshaw / Jennings
FB - Hedgecock

WR - Hixon / Mario
WR - Johnson / Tyree or Mix
WR - Smith / Tate
TE - Boss / Matthews

LT - Diehl / Whimper
LG - Seubert / Unger
OC - O'Hara / Ruegamer / Unger
RG - Snee / Boothe
RT - McKenzie / Boothe / Tupou

LE - Tuck / Kiwi
DT - Cofield / Alford
DT - Robbens / Oghobaase
RE - Osi / Tollefson / Matthews

SLB - Boley / Matthews / Goff
MLB - AP / Goff / Blackburn
WLB - Kehl / Blackburn / Wilkinson

CB - Webster/Thomas
SS - Kenny Phillips / Patrick Chung / James Butler
FS - Michael Johnson / Kenny Phillips
CB - Ross/Thomas
NB - Thomas / Dockery

BaLLiN
12-03-2008, 07:52 PM
1. Phil Loadholt
OG/OT whatever, he's good and we need some improvement

2a.Marcus Freeman
keep kiwi at DE, this guy is pretty scary lol

2b.Terrence Taylor
love me some meat

3. Courtney Greene
ive been waiting 3 years for this, dont screw this up giants

4. Manuel johnson
he's a playmaker, we need more playmakers, also alot of PR/KR ability

5. Wopamo Osaisai
was shutdown at one point maybe we can revive that like we did to CW

5.Dan Gronkowski
maybe hes not amazing, maybe he isnt the best reciever, but hes hardnosed and tries; welcome to the giants

6. Javorskie Lane
i didnt think it was possible but we've found a bigger back than BJ

7. Louie Sakoda
he may not be here but boy can he kick

im guessing we're getting 2 conditional picks (gibril, kawika, torbor) and raiders mightve given us a present; possibly a 3rd rounder :)

Giantsfan1080
12-04-2008, 12:11 AM
Greene really hurt his stock this year. I don't even see him going 3rd, probably 5th or 6th this year.

BaLLiN
12-04-2008, 10:38 PM
Greene really hurt his stock this year. I don't even see him going 3rd, probably 5th or 6th this year.

well he still has a lot of potential, so either way i wouldnt care if we picked him a round earlier

Race for the Heisman
12-08-2008, 06:07 PM
Question. Actually let me preface that with this: I'm trying to do a more comprehensive mock. I've gotten to San Diego and I'm sick of plugging in Maualuga there. Using the trade value chart and the Jacksonville Baltimore trade last year, I think that the Giants could move up to 11 (which is where I have the Chargers now) and have their choice of Aaron Curry, Taylor Mays, William Moore, Jason Smith, Greg Hardy, Vontae Davis, Alphonso Smith, and D.J. Moore, to name a few. From that list (or a player not previously mentioned) who would you want and why?

Also, the trade would be 11 for 31 and 48 (from New Orleans). I know the Giants could stand pat and get three pretty good players without sacrificing any picks, but I thought the idea of getting someone like Mays (and therefore keeping him away from Philadelphia, potentially) or Curry (immediate starter and potential successor to Antonio Pierce) might be worth it. Just tell me what you think.

skiinginNJ
12-08-2008, 06:10 PM
Question. Actually let me preface that with this: I'm trying to do a more comprehensive mock. I've gotten to San Diego and I'm sick of plugging in Maualuga there. Using the trade value chart and the Jacksonville Baltimore trade last year, I think that the Giants could move up to 11 (which is where I have the Chargers now) and have their choice of Aaron Curry, Taylor Mays, William Moore, Jason Smith, Greg Hardy, Vontae Davis, Alphonso Smith, and D.J. Moore, to name a few. From that list (or a player not previously mentioned) who would you want and why?

Also, the trade would be 11 for 31 and 48 (from New Orleans). I know the Giants could stand pat and get three pretty good players without sacrificing any picks, but I thought the idea of getting someone like Mays (and therefore keeping him away from Philadelphia, potentially) or Curry (immediate starter and potential successor to Antonio Pierce) might be worth it. Just tell me what you think.


i cant speak for anyone else, but i would be fine with that and it even makes sense. curry would be an awesome pick, but i think we would keep him at the weakside instead of putting him in the middle. id love mays too. heck, if your tired of giving maualuga to the chargers i wouldnt mind him there either. he could probably play SLB here until eventually replacing pierce

NY™
12-10-2008, 08:32 PM
Who I would like to see as our first round pick would depend on what position Kiwi plays next season, does he continue to play DE or do they put him back into the starting role as the OLB. I think that the Giants will say the same thing when they announced that Kiwi would be a LB, have the best players on the field.

That said it's kind of hard to see who they will pick, considering they are going to be picking towards the end of the 1st. I'd drool over having a guy like Taylor Mays but there is no way that will happen unless they decide to move up. Cushing seems to be likely the player that will be at our pick, and it seems the best if Kiwi stays at DE. Wilky hasn't shown me much besides that he can get injured, and only time will tell for Goff and Kehl. Only thing that worries me about Cushing is that I have heard that he has had injury problems, I'm not 100% about that though, it would be nice if someone can clear that up.

Race for the Heisman
12-10-2008, 09:06 PM
Who I would like to see as our first round pick would depend on what position Kiwi plays next season, does he continue to play DE or do they put him back into the starting role as the OLB. I think that the Giants will say the same thing when they announced that Kiwi would be a LB, have the best players on the field.

That said it's kind of hard to see who they will pick, considering they are going to be picking towards the end of the 1st. I'd drool over having a guy like Taylor Mays but there is no way that will happen unless they decide to move up. Cushing seems to be likely the player that will be at our pick, and it seems the best if Kiwi stays at DE. Wilky hasn't shown me much besides that he can get injured, and only time will tell for Goff and Kehl. Only thing that worries me about Cushing is that I have heard that he has had injury problems, I'm not 100% about that though, it would be nice if someone can clear that up.

What about Clint Sintim? Could be either defensive end or linebacker. Not sure how well he plays with his hand down but it could let you go either way with Kiwanuka.

BaLLiN
12-14-2008, 10:41 PM
we need friggen tackles

scottyboy
12-14-2008, 10:43 PM
gimme Spikes and Britt now with our first 2 picks. We need playmakers at LB(especially ones that can cover) and a playmaker at WR who isn't a legal midget.

Race for the Heisman
12-14-2008, 11:04 PM
gimme Spikes and Britt now with our first 2 picks. We need playmakers at LB(especially ones that can cover) and a playmaker at WR who isn't a legal midget.

I don't think Spikes will make it to your first pick nor Britt to your second, although Britt to your first is not out of the realm of possibilities. Even still, if you won the Super Bowl I could see the Titans taking him a pick or two ahead of you.

Number 10
12-15-2008, 12:41 AM
Ugh Pierce frustrates me more and more each week.

I understand he is a smart player and can put guys in position, like a coach on the field. But I'd rather have an athlete back there that can learn from veterans than a guy who can't get off blocks or make plays sideline to sideline.

bigbluedefense
12-15-2008, 09:51 AM
Well, with the extension of Webster, we will most likely also resign Jacobs now, so my guess at this moment is we can scratch CB and RB off of our board for the first 3 rounds.

Our needs at this point in my eyes are:

LT
WR
LB
DE

now what order, remains to be seen. if Burress is gone for good, WR might be a high priority the way our offense is playing without him. but we also have to give them time, it takes time to adjust without your #1 WR.

LT, again, McKenzie is getting older, we need depth, and Diehl while having a PB caliber season just wet the bed against Dallas. Both our Tackles did. So its a good idea to invest in one in case one falls. We don't absolutely need one, but it would improve our team for sure.

LB is a must. This is our biggest need. We simply lack a playmaker in the LB core, and we desperately need one. Its the one missing piece on our defense.

DE, we need depth at DE, and you saw yesterday when we have that 3rd DE put consistent pressure on the qb, our defense is a totally different front. We need a 4th DE as quality depth in case 1 of our big 3 (Osi, Tuck, Kiwi) get hurt next year. We need 4 quality DEs for our system.

Right now however, I think LB is our biggest need.

Number 10
12-15-2008, 12:02 PM
BBD I don't get the love for Diehl at LT. Pro Bowl caliber up until last night? Do you watch LTs from around the league? If you want to see a Pro-Bowl caliber LT, watch Jordan Gross closely this upcoming Sunday. Diehl is a below average pass protector and that is the most vital job a LT has. Match him up on an island with a good pass rusher and he is toast more often than not. That is NOT Pro-Bowl caliber. He was a Pro-Bowl caliber LG because his drop backs were not as essential as they are now. He is a dominant run blocker and I guarantee he ranks among the league's best in not letting his assignment make the tackle. But his pass protection is nothing to write home about.

With Reese having 4 picks in the first 3 rounds, I could see him trading up for one of these LTs in the draft. That may have been a factor in the Shockey trade because everyone knew how stacked this LT class would be and it has gotten even stronger with Britton and Smith likely to declare. I think that is priority A right now in the draft, with a future MLB right behind. Kehl and Goff are good guys to have in the wings but neither are guys that I would base the future of our defense around.

bigbluedefense
12-15-2008, 12:13 PM
BBD I don't get the love for Diehl at LT. Pro Bowl caliber up until last night? Do you watch LTs from around the league? If you want to see a Pro-Bowl caliber LT, watch Jordan Gross closely this upcoming Sunday. Diehl is a below average pass protector and that is the most vital job a LT has. Match him up on an island with a good pass rusher and he is toast more often than not. That is NOT Pro-Bowl caliber. He was a Pro-Bowl caliber LG because his drop backs were not as essential as they are now. He is a dominant run blocker and I guarantee he ranks among the league's best in not letting his assignment make the tackle. But his pass protection is nothing to write home about.

With Reese having 4 picks in the first 3 rounds, I could see him trading up for one of these LTs in the draft. That may have been a factor in the Shockey trade because everyone knew how stacked this LT class would be and it has gotten even stronger with Britton and Smith likely to declare. I think that is priority A right now in the draft, with a future MLB right behind. Kehl and Goff are good guys to have in the wings but neither are guys that I would base the future of our defense around.

I wouldn't say his pass protection is below average, its average. Is it dominant? No. But his run blocking is as you've said. This is the first game this season where he really just got destroyed. I know he has trouble with speed rushers, but he was doing a good job this season up to this point.

Afterall, he did an incredible job against James Harrison this year. The problem is now without Burress teams are not affraid to blitz heavy against us and overload one side of our line, and we're not adjusting to counter that.

I have no problem with us taking an LT, but I don't think its as bad as youre making it out to be. I thought Diehl was playing excellent for most of the season. Our entire oline just wet the bad last night.

D-Unit
12-15-2008, 12:32 PM
Isn't it crazy how night and day an OL can look sometimes. Trust me, I know how you guys are feeling right now. I felt the exact same way after losing to you guys in the playoffs last year. They way you came after us made our so-called great OL look like minced meat. Last night, we blitzed the living daylights out and had some relatively nice success. I thought this was another gem by Wade, since he's taken over the play calling on D. It's finally the "attacking 3-4" that he was supposed to bring when he got hired.

As for Diehl, I'm with Number 10 here. I don't think he's the answer at LT. The draft is a great place to pick up a LT. For several reasons... they cost less through the draft than via FA, and rookies can step in from day 1.

As for WR, I know all the locals there love Kenny Britt, but I think you should stay away from WR at all costs in the draft. You have everything you need at WR except for that #1 guy to replace what Plax did for you. So unless you spend a 1st round pick on a WR, it doesn't make sense to address it any later. And in the 1st round, there is too much of a bust factor at WR and they usually take a while to develop. I've said this before, but I say throw the boat at TJ Houshmanzadeh in FA.

I agree that your LB corps could use a boost with a playmaker. Scottyboy, Spikes is an ILB. If that's what you're looking for, don't overlook Scott McKillop. He's a guy you could get later, but he's very active and very smart. Not only is he a playmaker in his own right, but he does a lot of things on the field that go unnoticed on the stat sheet and is a great team player with high character.

At DE, it might look bleek now, but Osi will be back next year. I'd push that need below Round 1 and 2 for sure.

I think you guys need to look at TE. I know Boss has many fans, but he is not a real playmaker. When I watched Eli yesterday, he didn't have a guy to dump the ball off to. He forced it too often in tight coverage and it bit him in the ass. When we blitzed, there was no safety net for him. Is it me or is Brandon Pettigew like the perfect fit for you guys? Might be out of your range though. Jermaine Gresham wouldn't be bad either. Reminds me some of Martellus Bennett. Also, the way the Browns are hating on Kellen Winslow.... you should take a look. Don't fool yourselves... the Giants never cared too much about character as much as they like to claim to. Winslow would once again get you guys back on your feet.

I'm no expert on the Giants, but that was my 2 cents on the needs that you guys listed for yourselves.

bigbluedefense
12-15-2008, 12:39 PM
Isn't it crazy how night and day an OL can look sometimes. Trust me, I know how you guys are feeling right now. I felt the exact same way after losing to you guys in the playoffs last year. They way you came after us made our so-called great OL look like minced meat. Last night, we blitzed the living daylights out and had some relatively nice success. I thought this was another gem by Wade, since he's taken over the play calling on D. It's finally the "attacking 3-4" that he was supposed to bring when he got hired.

As for Diehl, I'm with Number 10 here. I don't think he's the answer at LT. The draft is a great place to pick up a LT. For several reasons... they cost less through the draft than via FA, and rookies can step in from day 1.

As for WR, I know all the locals there love Kenny Britt, but I think you should stay away from WR at all costs in the draft. You have everything you need at WR except for that #1 guy to replace what Plax did for you. So unless you spend a 1st round pick on a WR, it doesn't make sense to address it any later. And in the 1st round, there is too much of a bust factor at WR and they usually take a while to develop. I've said this before, but I say throw the boat at TJ Houshmanzadeh in FA.

I agree that your LB corps could use a boost with a playmaker. Scottyboy, Spikes is an ILB. If that's what you're looking for, don't overlook Scott McKillop. He's a guy you could get later, but he's very active and very smart. Not only is he a playmaker in his own right, but he does a lot of things on the field that go unnoticed on the stat sheet and is a great team player with high character.

At DE, it might look bleek now, but Osi will be back next year. I'd push that need below Round 1 and 2 for sure.

I think you guys need to look at TE. I know Boss has many fans, but he is not a real playmaker. When I watched Eli yesterday, he didn't have a guy to dump the ball off to. He forced it too often in tight coverage and it bit him in the ass. When we blitzed, there was no safety net for him. Is it me or is Brandon Pettigew like the perfect fit for you guys? Might be out of your range though. Jermaine Gresham wouldn't be bad either. Reminds me some of Martellus Bennett. Also, the way the Browns are hating on Kellen Winslow.... you should take a look. Don't fool yourselves... the Giants never cared too much about character as much as they like to claim to. Winslow would once again get you guys back on your feet.

I'm no expert on the Giants, but that was my 2 cents on the needs that you guys listed for yourselves.

Boss is still developing though. He's actually getting better with each game, I think we're good there. Your idea of Housh is great if we don't bring back Plax. I think however, its a bigger priority for us to resign Jacobs than bring in Housh. So if we can resign Jacobs and still have enough left for Housh, then Im all for it. But if we don't, I rather just resign Jacobs.

My concern with Housh is, isn't he more of a possession WR? We have enough of those. We need that guy who can go deep and demand the double team every time.

I just see us going after a DE early. Within the first 2 rounds if we stay put and not make any trades. Like I said earlier, having 4 quality DEs is vital to our defense, since the 3 DE front is a major part of our defense. We need a quality 4th guy in case 1 of the 3 get hurt.

If we lose to Carolina, then I'll start screaming the sky is falling, but right now I just don't buy it. There are a lot of things we could do to fix our issues right now, we're just not doing it. I'll chalk this one up to our good old buddy Kevin Gilbride, the man that takes forever to realize he needs to adjust. A couple of screen passes, some Brandon Jacobs action, and we'll be ok.

Dallas matches up with us better than any team in the league. It happens some times.

D-Unit
12-15-2008, 12:56 PM
Boss is still developing though. He's actually getting better with each game, I think we're good there. Your idea of Housh is great if we don't bring back Plax. I think however, its a bigger priority for us to resign Jacobs than bring in Housh. So if we can resign Jacobs and still have enough left for Housh, then Im all for it. But if we don't, I rather just resign Jacobs.

My concern with Housh is, isn't he more of a possession WR? We have enough of those. We need that guy who can go deep and demand the double team every time.

I just see us going after a DE early. Within the first 2 rounds if we stay put and not make any trades. Like I said earlier, having 4 quality DEs is vital to our defense, since the 3 DE front is a major part of our defense. We need a quality 4th guy in case 1 of the 3 get hurt.

If we lose to Carolina, then I'll start screaming the sky is falling, but right now I just don't buy it. There are a lot of things we could do to fix our issues right now, we're just not doing it. I'll chalk this one up to our good old buddy Kevin Gilbride, the man that takes forever to realize he needs to adjust. A couple of screen passes, some Brandon Jacobs action, and we'll be ok.

Dallas matches up with us better than any team in the league. It happens some times.
I agree Jacobs is a priority. Guess I don't know your cap situation that well to know if you'll have enough or not. A trade is also another option. A lot of people bring up Boldin's name, but I really don't see Zona losing him.

Interesting point you bring up about Housh. While I do liken his game to Plaxico, you are right in that he is not the deep threat that Plaxico is. He is like Plax in that he has good hands and is a good red zone target. But he does not stretch the field and to be honest, I wondered if he wasn't a huge benefactor of playing opposite of Chad Johnson. Who by mentioning.... brings up a good idea to consider. Chad will most certainly be on the block this offseason. You want a guy who can stretch the field and command a double team. Is Chad NOT that guy? I have an easier time seeing Chad on the Redskins than the Giants, but if that did happen, you guys would be lethal again in the passing game. Chad is having a down year, but I don't blame him nor do I think his skills are diminshing. Put him in a happy place and he will thrive. I fully believe it. I wanted him in Dallas more than I wanted Roy.

If you think Boss will develop into something astronomically more than he is, then you might be setting yourself up for disappointment. He's a great blocker and can have an occassional impact on the game, but he just doesn't seem to have the raw talent or oozing potential as a receiver to ever become a real consistent weapon in the offense. Just my opinion. I have doubts he'll keep DC's up at night the way Shockey used to in his hey day.

...and I think we do match up well with you because teams within the division are usually built to beat each other more. For example, no matter how bad Philly is, or Washington is as well... we will always have a tough game to face.

bigbluedefense
12-15-2008, 01:01 PM
I agree Jacobs is a priority. Guess I don't know your cap situation that well to know if you'll have enough or not. A trade is also another option. A lot of people bring up Boldin's name, but I really don't see Zona losing him.

Interesting point you bring up about Housh. While I do liken his game to Plaxico, you are right in that he is not the deep threat that Plaxico is. He is like Plax in that he has good hands and is a good red zone target. But he does not stretch the field and to be honest, I wondered if he wasn't a huge benefactor of playing opposite of Chad Johnson. Who by mentioning.... brings up a good idea to consider. Chad will most certainly be on the block this offseason. You want a guy who can stretch the field and command a double team. Is Chad NOT that guy? I have an easier time seeing Chad on the Redskins than the Giants, but if that did happen, you guys would be lethal again in the passing game. Chad is having a down year, but I don't blame him nor do I think his skills are diminshing. Put him in a happy place and he will thrive. I fully believe it. I wanted him in Dallas more than I wanted Roy.

If you think Boss will develop into something astronomically more than he is, then you might be setting yourself up for disappointment. He's a great blocker and can have an occassional impact on the game, but he just doesn't seem to have the raw talent or oozing potential as a receiver to ever become a real consistent weapon in the offense. Just my opinion. I have doubts he'll keep DC's up at night the way Shockey used to in his hey day.

...and I think we do match up well with you because teams within the division are usually built to beat each other more. For example, no matter how bad Philly is, or Washington is as well... we will always have a tough game to face.

Noooooo. No Chad Johnson. I highly highly doubt we'd go after him anyway. But we definitely don't want Chad. I rather build through the draft than get Chad.

I don't think Boss will ever be a stud, but we don't need him to be. Its not in our system to have a stud TE. Its just not important to our offense. He's fine for what we need.

I wonder if we consider Torry Holt. Holt is at the end of his career, but I also think he has a couple of years left in the tank, and I think St. Louis is making him look worse than he is. Sure hands, should be able to stretch the field, high character, cheap. Sounds like a Reese guy to me.

D-Unit
12-15-2008, 01:09 PM
Noooooo. No Chad Johnson. I highly highly doubt we'd go after him anyway. But we definitely don't want Chad. I rather build through the draft than get Chad.

I don't think Boss will ever be a stud, but we don't need him to be. Its not in our system to have a stud TE. Its just not important to our offense. He's fine for what we need.

I wonder if we consider Torry Holt. Holt is at the end of his career, but I also think he has a couple of years left in the tank, and I think St. Louis is making him look worse than he is. Sure hands, should be able to stretch the field, high character, cheap. Sounds like a Reese guy to me.
You're probably right about Chad not being an option. Reese was brought into to clean up house and that would be against his philosophy.

Not sure I see an answer out there for you guys at WR. Tory could be an option. He's certainly being pushed out of the picture in St. Louis.

Number 10
12-15-2008, 01:37 PM
Housh will be 32 next year, Holt will be 33.

Neither are known for their ability to separate. There is no point in bringing in either at a free agent market price. None.

I'm somewhat against drafting a WR early unless it is a sure thing a la Calvin Johnson, Michael Crabtree. It is not realistic that we could get either of them, thus I say we stick with what we've got. I actually think Plax will be back next year anyway.

This team will not sustain success unless we are top notch in the trenches. Diehl at LG with one of maybe 4-5 LTs in the 1st round of this class will put that unit where it needs to be.

bigbluedefense
12-15-2008, 02:04 PM
well, things will be interesting, thats for sure.

I can't help but think that if Plax is back, our offense will be top notch again next year, bc of the 7 man fronts and less blitzing by defenses.

I need to see this offense with Jacobs though. This is 2 weeks now where we were flat, but its also 2 weeks where we really didn't have Jacobs. That big boy could make all the difference in the world. We'll see against the Panthers.

scottyboy
12-15-2008, 02:18 PM
I don't think Spikes will make it to your first pick nor Britt to your second, although Britt to your first is not out of the realm of possibilities. Even still, if you won the Super Bowl I could see the Titans taking him a pick or two ahead of you.

We've got the Saints 2nd rounder which should be mid-high 40's. In a deep WR class, he could very well fall.

AND with comp picks coming from Mitchell and Gibril, we can afford to move up in the first for Spikes...

Britt in the first is hella fine with me!

bigbluedefense
12-15-2008, 02:20 PM
I want Michael Oher or Greg Hardy.

Yes, I am smoking.

Number 10
12-15-2008, 02:21 PM
I don't want a DE early.

Ideally we get DT or LT, possiblity of a LB with thw 1st.

D-Unit
12-15-2008, 02:23 PM
well, things will be interesting, thats for sure.

I can't help but think that if Plax is back, our offense will be top notch again next year, bc of the 7 man fronts and less blitzing by defenses.

I need to see this offense with Jacobs though. This is 2 weeks now where we were flat, but its also 2 weeks where we really didn't have Jacobs. That big boy could make all the difference in the world. We'll see against the Panthers.
The one achilles heel of the Cowboys has always been stopping big backs. Smaller ones.. even the best in their primes (LT and Shaun Alexander), never had as much success as the bigger backs did against us. Bradshaw and Ward play with heart, but the Cowboys were able to contain them. Jacobs softens up the D for them to have success. He is a critical signing for you guys. I would be wary of the kind of contract you give him though, because he is extremely injury prone.

bigbluedefense
12-15-2008, 02:26 PM
The one achilles heel of the Cowboys has always been stopping big backs. Smaller ones.. even the best in their primes (LT and Shaun Alexander), never had as much success as the bigger backs did against us. Bradshaw and Ward play with heart, but the Cowboys were able to contain them. Jacobs softens up the D for them to have success. He is a critical signing for you guys. I would be wary of the kind of contract you give him though, because he is extremely injury prone.

yeah, I have a feeling he signs a contract thats incentive laden. he said he'd take less to stay with the Giants, but who knows. we'll see.

our oline is also at its best when we pull our guards. if you notice, we run 2 diff run blocking styles: 1 for Jacobs, and 1 for Ward and Bradshaw. We run a lot more ZBS for Ward and Bradshaw, and a lot of pulling for Jacobs.

Our best runs are when we pull those guards, and we only do that with Jacobs, so not only does our running backs suffer with his absense, but so does our run blocking.

And our PA pass. everything. he's probably our offensive MVP come to think of it.

scottyboy
12-15-2008, 02:26 PM
I don't want a DE early.

Ideally we get DT or LT, possiblity of a LB with thw 1st.

i don't want a DT anymore now. Cofield has been amazing of late. Robbins has been an animal all year as we all know. I even like the progress of Alford.

LT could be a possibilty, but these guys have been too good together as a run blocking unit to really mix things up. I know he wouldn't start right off the bat, but still...

We can really go BPA, but I honestly think everyone, especially the media, is going crazy after our 3rd loss of the year. Honestly, if we win the Minny game and don't look like total **** against Carolina, we should be ok.

Number 10
12-15-2008, 02:27 PM
My stance on Jacobs remains the same. If he will take a $5-6 million per year deal, I'll sign. But he is too injury riddled to be given top notch money.

bigbluedefense
12-15-2008, 02:30 PM
I don't want a DE early.

Ideally we get DT or LT, possiblity of a LB with thw 1st.

I actually really like Alford. Notice how our pass rush was so much better with him in the lineup? I don't think thats coincidence. I have been in favor of putting him in our pressure packages for awhile now.

And I don't think theres that Tommie Harris type of DT available that we can nab anyway, which would be the only type of DT id take that early.

I think its gotta be LB, LT, or BPA in round 1.

scottyboy
12-15-2008, 02:35 PM
My stance on Jacobs remains the same. If he will take a $5-6 million per year deal, I'll sign. But he is too injury riddled to be given top notch money.

we need him over Ward, bottom line. Jacobs is a special back with his size and what he does to defenses. He changes the game and wears down defenders. He's a perfect NY type of guy and a major weapon for us. We need to keep him and Amani, that's it.

Also, is Cofield a RFA? I think he is, but I'm not sure. We gotta keep him, he's progressing so nicely

bigbluedefense
12-15-2008, 02:38 PM
Jacobs is also great in pass protection, and has quietly turned into a vocal leader on offense.

He brings attitude and physicality on offense. Is he worth the farm? No. But I doubt he'll ask for that.


Teams fear Brandon Jacobs. You saw the respect that Dallas gave Ward and Bradshaw? They flicked them around like they were nothing. No respect.

Jacobs just changes things. You won't see it on paper, but ask any player im sure they'll tell you how big he is for our offense.

bigbluedefense
12-15-2008, 02:41 PM
we need him over Ward, bottom line. Jacobs is a special back with his size and what he does to defenses. He changes the game and wears down defenders. He's a perfect NY type of guy and a major weapon for us. We need to keep him and Amani, that's it.

Also, is Cofield a RFA? I think he is, but I'm not sure. We gotta keep him, he's progressing so nicely

not a big Coffield fan honestly. He's very replaceable. In fact, I think we'd do better with Robbins and Alford as our duo.

D-Unit
12-15-2008, 02:58 PM
I don't want a DE early.

Ideally we get DT or LT, possiblity of a LB with thw 1st.
Have you guys seen Tony Kropog? I have a feeling he could sneak into the late first round to a team like the Giants.

D-Unit
12-15-2008, 03:01 PM
I actually really like Alford. Notice how our pass rush was so much better with him in the lineup? I don't think thats coincidence. I have been in favor of putting him in our pressure packages for awhile now.

And I don't think theres that Tommie Harris type of DT available that we can nab anyway, which would be the only type of DT id take that early.

I think its gotta be LB, LT, or BPA in round 1.
Peria Jerry is a DT that reminds me of a Tommie Harris type. Talk about a guy who wreaks havoc in the backfield. He might be available for you too.

Number 10
12-15-2008, 03:04 PM
Have you guys seen Tony Kropog? I have a feeling he could sneak into the late first round to a team like the Giants.

Scouted him last year, didn't get to see him this season though. Kropog fits within our system from the standpoint that he is a technician that makes up for his physical shortcomings by playing low and getting his hands in the right place. Strong kid too. But in terms of what I am looking for at LT, he isn't the guy. Not in the 1st round anyway.

Number 10
12-15-2008, 03:06 PM
Peria Jerry is a DT that reminds me of a Tommie Harris type. Talk about a guy who wreaks havoc in the backfield. He might be available for you too.

Jerry is good, but not Tommie Harris good. The only kid I see in the country with that kind of ability at DT is McCoy from Oklahoma, redshirt soph I believe. if he comes out, he'll be a top 15 pick. It would cost a lot to move up for him, but its worth looking into.

D-Unit
12-15-2008, 03:15 PM
Jerry is good, but not Tommie Harris good. The only kid I see in the country with that kind of ability at DT is McCoy from Oklahoma, redshirt soph I believe. if he comes out, he'll be a top 15 pick. It would cost a lot to move up for him, but its worth looking into.
True, but he doesn't cost the same either. The thing I notice with you guys is that the players you draft play higher than their draft spot. Mostly due to thier fits in the system and good coaching. ...more than "talent level". It's why guys like Cofield and Alford are such great fits themselves. Jerry is so much better than those 2, I can imagine him being very Tommie Harris like on your team. Jerry is such a powerful penetrating force and an unselfish, disciplined player. So much of Greg Hardy's success at DE and the hype he's gotten this season should be accredited to the attention Jerry demands. I've seen him one arm blockers out of his way. He gets in the backfield by power and by slipping by with technique. He's not just a one dimensional DT. He may not be a top 10 talent like Harris, but I can certainly see him having similar success in the NFL.

bigbluedefense
12-15-2008, 05:27 PM
Hmmmm, D might be onto something with Peria.

Peria would help us more in our base defense, a Hardy type of player would help us more in our pressure packages.

We sub out DTs for DEs in our nickel and dime anyway, thats the tricky part in this.

I know Cushing is a name thats thrown out a lot with us, but Im not sure. He's too injury prone, and he's not the answer at weakside (im aware there is no weakside/strongside in our system at LB)

I want a Lawrence Timmons type of LB. A punishing blitzer, a strong guy that can play downhill but also has the speed to cover and move sideline to sideline.

Any names?

Number 10
12-15-2008, 05:38 PM
Hmmmm, D might be onto something with Peria.

Peria would help us more in our base defense, a Hardy type of player would help us more in our pressure packages.

We sub out DTs for DEs in our nickel and dime anyway, thats the tricky part in this.

I know Cushing is a name thats thrown out a lot with us, but Im not sure. He's too injury prone, and he's not the answer at weakside (im aware there is no weakside/strongside in our system at LB)

I want a Lawrence Timmons type of LB. A punishing blitzer, a strong guy that can play downhill but also has the speed to cover and move sideline to sideline.

Any names?

I'm not thrilled with the OLB class this year outside of Curry, who is a top 10 pick. There is a junior from Texas, Sergio Kindle, that could be exactly what we need in terms of athleticism. Not sure he'll declare though. Very similar to former Longhorn Derrick Johnson.

scottyboy
12-15-2008, 05:39 PM
not a big Coffield fan honestly. He's very replaceable. In fact, I think we'd do better with Robbins and Alford as our duo.

I think he's been making huge strides. Was fairly disruptive last night actually at times. Tuck loves him and called him the teams best interior pass rusher by far and one of the tops in the league. I think he's just starting to scratch the surface.

Alford needs to work more on his run D, but his improvement is very noteworthy as well

bigbluedefense
12-15-2008, 05:40 PM
I'm not thrilled with the OLB class this year outside of Curry, who is a top 10 pick. There is a junior from Texas, Sergio Kindle, that could be exactly what we need in terms of athleticism. Not sure he'll declare though. Very similar to former Longhorn Derrick Johnson.

so by your estimation then, there really isn't an OLB worthy of a 1st round pick (since Curry will be long gone)?

If thats the case, its LT or BPA in the 1st.

bigbluedefense
12-15-2008, 05:45 PM
I think he's been making huge strides. Was fairly disruptive last night actually at times. Tuck loves him and called him the teams best interior pass rusher by far and one of the tops in the league. I think he's just starting to scratch the surface.

Alford needs to work more on his run D, but his improvement is very noteworthy as well

He is what he is at this point. He's a solid player, but I don't expect him to all of a sudden turn a corner Webster style. He's too streaky. Solid but not spectacular.

Fast Feet Freddy is more of a pass rusher than he is. So is Alford. Coffield is good at holding his point and being a good run stuffer. But we can use an upgrade. He's no double team machine, and he's not enough of a penetrator to make up for it.

scottyboy
12-15-2008, 05:55 PM
He is what he is at this point. He's a solid player, but I don't expect him to all of a sudden turn a corner Webster style. He's too streaky. Solid but not spectacular.

Fast Feet Freddy is more of a pass rusher than he is. So is Alford. Coffield is good at holding his point and being a good run stuffer. But we can use an upgrade. He's no double team machine, and he's not enough of a penetrator to make up for it.

true, but I've liked his improvement. I think he hasn't hit his full potential yet.

That being said, we've got much bigger holes right now than DT. LB and WR being two of the glaring ones.

Number 10
12-15-2008, 06:00 PM
so by your estimation then, there really isn't an OLB worthy of a 1st round pick (since Curry will be long gone)?

If thats the case, its LT or BPA in the 1st.

I like Cushing for our strong side position. I'm in the minority in saying Kiwanuka needs to stay at DE, I just don't like him at LB. Sure you can say he improved in the half season he was there but honestly, how could he not improve from where he started? He was beyond awful in those first couple of games. Cushing would bring exactly what we need to the strong side and he is as versatile as it gets, I actually like him in the middle as well.

And I would take Spikes if he was available for the long term answer in the middle while playing the weak side until Pierce is gone. As of right now...pre Free Agency:

LT
LB (inside or outside)
DT

I would be ecstatic if we could get proper value at those 3 spots with our first three picks. No reaches though. We are in a position where we can grab a player that falls at the positions mentioned above along with S, RB, G, C, TE

D-Unit
12-15-2008, 06:43 PM
Hmmmm, D might be onto something with Peria.

Peria would help us more in our base defense, a Hardy type of player would help us more in our pressure packages.

We sub out DTs for DEs in our nickel and dime anyway, thats the tricky part in this.

I know Cushing is a name thats thrown out a lot with us, but Im not sure. He's too injury prone, and he's not the answer at weakside (im aware there is no weakside/strongside in our system at LB)

I want a Lawrence Timmons type of LB. A punishing blitzer, a strong guy that can play downhill but also has the speed to cover and move sideline to sideline.

Any names?
A punishing blitzer, a strong guy that can play downhill, but also has the speed to cover and move sideline to sideline... Hmm... that's a heck of a player right ther BBD! I want him too!

There's a guy that I think could be your solution, but he might not have everything you're looking for "out of the box". With more coaching and development, I think he could be that player, but the guy I have in mind is Virginia's Clint Sintim. He's a 6-3, 254 hard as nails LB who plays like a heat seeking missle. He blows up backfields like no other LB that I've seen this year... and he's been doing this for a while now. This past season he finished with 13 TFL, 11 sacks!!! Yes, he is a LB... not a DE. He also had 70 tackles, 3 Pass Break Ups, 5 QB Hurries, 2 Fumble Recoveries and a Forced Fumble. Puh-lay-maker! Last year, he had 77 tackles, 9 TFL, 9 Sacks, 2 FF... and get this... 17 QB Hurries. 17!!! Yeah, Chris Long played a factor in that but still... This guy has been doing this ever since he set foot at Viriginia. Al Groh has done a tremedous job developing in him. He doesn't have the fastest timed speed, but he plays faster than timed. He mostly gets by with his relentless motor and technique. If you guys got him, I'll be sick. He's everything you want in an OLB... especially because he brings so much promise.

NY™
12-15-2008, 07:50 PM
Diehl is a good tackle considering he is naturally a guard playing at the Left Tackle. Can he handle the best pass rushing DE in the league? No but he does a fine job against the others. Last night he was up against Ware one on one, obviously he was going to get beat, as would most left tackles, and he needed help on that side.

I stand by what I said earlier on which position to draft .. OLB. It's been our biggest weakness all year, and we need an upgrade badly. And depending on whether Plaxico comes back next year or not, an impact WR may be a need as well. The receivers looked bad last night, no separation what so ever and couldn't make some of the catches to help Eli. When you have your #3 receiver leading in catches then you know something is wrong ..

Giantsfan1080
12-15-2008, 09:39 PM
I'm with #10 on thinking Kiwi should stay at DE. I kno he was improving but I didn't really like what I saw there. On the other hand I disagree with #10 on Cushing. A couple of pages ago I listed out some reasons why I didn't think he was a good fit for us. Injuries and steroids are the main reason.

Number 10
12-15-2008, 11:08 PM
I'm with #10 on thinking Kiwi should stay at DE. I kno he was improving but I didn't really like what I saw there. On the other hand I disagree with #10 on Cushing. A couple of pages ago I listed out some reasons why I didn't think he was a good fit for us. Injuries and steroids are the main reason.

Ugh the steroids....

Don't get started on that. I am very connected to the North Jersey High School Sports and every reliable source of mine says they were simple, elementary internet rumors. The information that leads to people thinking he was on the juice is incredibly juvenile. Comparison of pictures from after his shoulder surgery rehab to the peak of his physical build is the only credible evidence people have. Come on now, be serious.

If you don't want him because of injury concerns, fine. But consider the pain he played through with his shoulder....I'll take that kid on this team playing in front of his hometown any day.

Giantsfan1080
12-15-2008, 11:12 PM
Ugh the steroids....

Don't get started on that. I am very connected to the North Jersey High School Sports and every reliable source of mine says they were simple, elementary internet rumors. The information that leads to people thinking he was on the juice is incredibly juvenile. Comparison of pictures from after his shoulder surgery rehab to the peak of his physical build is the only credible evidence people have. Come on now, be serious.

If you don't want him because of injury concerns, fine. But consider the pain he played through with his shoulder....I'll take that kid on this team playing in front of his hometown any day.

I'm sure you have very good sources and honestly that isn't the only reason I don't want him. If you go back a couple of pages like I said I laid out some reasons why I don't think it's a good fit. As for the rumors I've actually never read anything on the internet but from what he looked like in HS to what he did his FR year at USC wow. I think it's pretty obvious but then again maybe he really really really worked his ass off.

Number 10
12-15-2008, 11:20 PM
I'm sure you have very good sources and honestly that isn't the only reason I don't want him. If you go back a couple of pages like I said I laid out some reasons why I don't think it's a good fit. As for the rumors I've actually never read anything on the internet but from what he looked like in HS to what he did his FR year at USC wow. I think it's pretty obvious but then again maybe he really really really worked his ass off.

I'll go check out what you wrote....

But his trainers at DeFranco told me there has never been a player with the kind of work ethic he had when it came to his body. And they train several Jets and Giants in the offseason. That combined with Mark Sanchez and Taylor Mays' comments about his daily workout routine and eating patterns...the guy is almost over-religious about how hard he pushes his body. Can't just throw a steroid tag at someone because he works his ass off.

D-Unit
12-16-2008, 01:13 PM
A punishing blitzer, a strong guy that can play downhill, but also has the speed to cover and move sideline to sideline... Hmm... that's a heck of a player right ther BBD! I want him too!

There's a guy that I think could be your solution, but he might not have everything you're looking for "out of the box". With more coaching and development, I think he could be that player, but the guy I have in mind is Virginia's Clint Sintim. He's a 6-3, 254 hard as nails LB who plays like a heat seeking missle. He blows up backfields like no other LB that I've seen this year... and he's been doing this for a while now. This past season he finished with 13 TFL, 11 sacks!!! Yes, he is a LB... not a DE. He also had 70 tackles, 3 Pass Break Ups, 5 QB Hurries, 2 Fumble Recoveries and a Forced Fumble. Puh-lay-maker! Last year, he had 77 tackles, 9 TFL, 9 Sacks, 2 FF... and get this... 17 QB Hurries. 17!!! Yeah, Chris Long played a factor in that but still... This guy has been doing this ever since he set foot at Viriginia. Al Groh has done a tremedous job developing in him. He doesn't have the fastest timed speed, but he plays faster than timed. He mostly gets by with his relentless motor and technique. If you guys got him, I'll be sick. He's everything you want in an OLB... especially because he brings so much promise.
You know I didn't even realize Scott had given you guys Sintim in his mock until I saw it today. What did you guys think of the fit/player?

Giantsfan1080
12-16-2008, 01:18 PM
You know I didn't even realize Scott had given you guys Sintim in his mock until I saw it today. What did you guys think of the fit/player?

I think it's a much better pick than Cushing. He fits our system IMO. I'd be very happy with Sintim at that spot but by the time the draft rolls around I don't think he'll fall that far.

ShutDwn
12-16-2008, 01:39 PM
Big game coming up, I'm pretty scared.

You guys might catch the first break with our DT Kemoeatu currently on crutches and a boot. I'm not sure if he will play, I think we are screwed if he doesn't.

scottyboy
12-16-2008, 02:42 PM
I'd take Sintim or Cushing or Spikes. All three would be perfect fits for us really. I just want a playmaking LB'er. A guy who will run around like nuts blowing people up with good speed. We need something at LB. I know, i know, they're not overally important in Spags' system, but we need some speed/coverage, preferably in the form of a badass who'll be dirty on the field!

Number 10
12-16-2008, 09:08 PM
I'll see more of Sintim when I get game tapes in February, so I'm going to reserve full judgment on him. Based on the numbers, measurables, opinions of those I respect, and the little I have seen of him...he could be a fit. However as of right now I question his ability to play in a defined 4-3 role. Seems like a bit of a "go get em" LB in the sense that he was not given a ton of responsibility assignment wise. More of an athlete that they put on the outside and let roam around and make plays. I'm sure he'll be in the discussions in the months to come.

bigbluedefense
12-17-2008, 03:59 PM
I don't know enough about Sintim, but he could potentially be our guy. He stands up at LB but also plays DE on passing downs, he sounds perfect for us bc he can kill 2 birds with 1 stone, he can be our starting SAM which allows us to keep Kiwi at DE, and he can be our 4th DE depth wise.

From the little Ive watched of him, I like his game but one thing that concerns me is speed. He might time slow.

If he can time in the range of 4.7-4.8 I'll like him. He fits our attacking style like a glove.

Even if we do draft the guy, Id still want us to draft another LB for the weakside as well.

Another guy Im looking at with the Saints 2nd round pick is Louis Delmas (SS). He reminds me a lot of Chris Horton, and that type of SS would fit our scheme like a glove. Pairing up Phillips with a guy like him would make a nasty safety duo.

I know size is a concern, but we have Johnson as depth, and we use a lot of 3 safety sets as well so having a good 3rd guy is a good idea.

I wouldn't mind BJ Raji in the 1st. He's smart, the BC connection is there, he's strong and dominant, he could be the presence inside that we need. I know he doesn't fit our system though, so I doubt we go after him.

One player I definitely want us to stay away from is Rey Malauga. His terrible angles scare me at the NFL level.

BigBlue58KiperIII
12-17-2008, 05:38 PM
I was surprised Scott gave us Sintim as well. Idk how he would adjust or fit into our scheme since he is coming from outside in the 3-4 with Groh, but he has been a playmaker his whole career. I personally love how Spikes plays but he seems to have an attitude or swagger the Giants usually stay away from but that I think we need in the LB core. None of our guys there now can make big plays. Pierce is key in terms of directing the D, but obviously has his weaknesses. However, with Plaxico gone for good most likely, we need to consider grabbing a receiver at the end of round 1 like DHB, I know his personality has been brought into question but he has all the tools to be solid.

D-Unit
12-17-2008, 05:54 PM
I was surprised Scott gave us Sintim as well. Idk how he would adjust or fit into our scheme since he is coming from outside in the 3-4 with Groh, but he has been a playmaker his whole career. I personally love how Spikes plays but he seems to have an attitude or swagger the Giants usually stay away from but that I think we need in the LB core. None of our guys there now can make big plays. Pierce is key in terms of directing the D, but obviously has his weaknesses. However, with Plaxico gone for good most likely, we need to consider grabbing a receiver at the end of round 1 like DHB, I know his personality has been brought into question but he has all the tools to be solid.
I'm a strong believer in that drafting a WR in round 1 is a bad thing.

BTW, Giants don't usually stay away from swagger/hot head character guys... it's only been recently with your new GM.

scottyboy
12-17-2008, 05:58 PM
Sintim(or Cushing, even Spikes)/Britt/anyone else I don't care.

our 1st 3 picks!

bigbluedefense
12-17-2008, 06:11 PM
I'm a strong believer in that drafting a WR in round 1 is a bad thing.

BTW, Giants don't usually stay away from swagger/hot head character guys... it's only been recently with your new GM.

This is true. And I honestly think thats the main reason why we turned our team around. Once we started weeding out the bad seeds and started drafting smart guys with good character, the turn around in the lockerroom and the leadership and savy needed on game day to win big games changed dramatically.

If we look at Reese's past 2 drafts, theres one common theme: Reese has drafted the BPA in our largest need in round 1. Our biggest need 2 years ago was CB, and he chose Aaron Ross who was the best CB available with our pick. This year our biggest need was safety, and he drafts Kenny Phillips who was the BPA at that position.

Another theme common with Reese is drafting standout players from small programs in the middle/late rounds. I expect that trend to occur as well.

Right here right now, I think our biggest need is LB. So my guess is Reese will take the best available LB with our 1st.

bigbluedefense
12-17-2008, 06:15 PM
As for Sintim translating to our scheme, I think he'll be fine. If we were comfortable with moving Kiwi there, and playing Torbor there last year, we should have no problem with Sintim transitioning to that position for us.

He's shown he can stop the run standing up, he's shown he can blitz and also put his hand on the dirt, and he's shown he can drop in zone coverage. He's fine. Its no different from what we would have asked from Kiwi this year. In fact, Sintim is probably much better suited to do it than Kiwi is.

D-Unit
12-17-2008, 06:19 PM
Yeah... no more LaVar Arrington, Jeremy Shockey, Plaxico Burress, Antonio Pierce types...

Reese is taking a page out of the old Bill Parcells book and putting his own spin on it... he isn't limiting himself to only drafting front 7 players in Round 1 like Parcells believed. He's taking guys that will fill up the secondary if need dictates. BP wouldn't do that. Yeah, we took T-New in BP's first year, but he wanted nothing to do with that. He wanted Kevin Williams even when CB was the most glaring need.

bigbluedefense
12-17-2008, 06:22 PM
Yeah... no more LaVar Arrington, Jeremy Shockey, Plaxico Burress, Antonio Pierce types...

Reese is taking a page out of the old Bill Parcells book and putting his own spin on it... he isn't limiting himself to only drafting front 7 players in Round 1 like Parcells believed. He's taking guys that will fill up the secondary if need dictates. BP wouldn't do that. Yeah, we took T-New in BP's first year, but he wanted nothing to do with that. He wanted Kevin Williams even when CB was the most glaring need.

i think it depends on the schemes, thats why you see that difference. in Spags scheme, LBs are not that important, but a dominant secondary is a must, so the high investment must be made.

For BP, his scheme never really required a heavy investment in the secondary, it was always about the front 7. Look at the Pats, even in their prime they didn't have a single guy in that secondary taken in the first round.

Parcells always believed that having a strong front 7 that can stop the run allows you to play 2 deep safety all 3 downs, which essentially puts less stress and need for elite CB play. thats why he loves big guys so much.

Geo
12-17-2008, 06:26 PM
For BP, his scheme never really required a heavy investment in the secondary, it was always about the front 7. Look at the Pats, even in their prime they didn't have a single guy in that secondary taken in the first round.
Not so fast, my friend.[/Lee Corso]

Ty Law was drafted 23rd overall in the 1995 Draft. When Parcells was still the coach, no less.

bigbluedefense
12-17-2008, 06:30 PM
Not so fast, my friend.[/Lee Corso]

Ty Law was drafted 23rd overall in the 1995 Draft. When Parcells was still the coach, no less.

ah yes. forgot about my boy Ty Law.

Im sure the front 7 was already intact by then though. I doubt he chose a CB over some good ol front 7 meat unless he had already built that front 7 up.

D-Unit
12-17-2008, 06:58 PM
ah yes. forgot about my boy Ty Law.

Im sure the front 7 was already intact by then though. I doubt he chose a CB over some good ol front 7 meat unless he had already built that front 7 up.
I also don't think Parcells had perfected his art by then either.

bigbluedefense
12-17-2008, 07:03 PM
I also don't think Parcells had perfected his art by then either.

i think his art was fine, he probably just needed a CB. he was so much more creative on defense when he was young then. the old BP in Dallas was not the same BP X and O wise that we knew in NY and Boston.

but then again, I blame a lot of that on not having a 3-4 DC in Dallas. And even then, when he had his guys healthy, that Dallas defense was pretty good under him.

bigbluedefense
12-17-2008, 08:55 PM
Guys Id like to see us target with NO's 2nd round pick:

-Louis Delmas
-Alex Mack
-Clay Matthews
-Fili Miola
-Terrance Taylor
-George Selvie/Greg Hardy

just a couple of names ill try to keep an eye on. im sure more names will pop up.

Go_Eli
12-22-2008, 07:04 PM
If Butler leaves via free agency, how high do you draft a SS?

scottyboy
12-22-2008, 07:38 PM
If Butler leaves via free agency, how high do you draft a SS?

eh, not very. Johnson has played well and I can't WAIT for Phillips to see more time and improve. Perhaps Courtney Greene round 3 or 4? :D

bigbluedefense
12-23-2008, 08:44 AM
Im pretty sure Butler walks. I see us spending a round 4/5 pick on a safety unless a real good one falls in our laps early.

Johnson has progressed very nicely at safety and that gives us flexibility. Good depth is never a bad thing of course.

Dawan Landry is also a RFA, who knows what happens with that. If we can get him for cheap, id look into that.

Mike Brown is another FA, although id sign him strictly for depth purposes only.

bigbluedefense
12-24-2008, 01:52 PM
Im in a draft mood lately.

So while DE isn't exactly a need for us, if for some reason my boy Greg Hardy falls to us, I think we have to take him. You don't pass up on a talent like that. Can you imagine how sick our pass rush would be with him to go along with Tuck, Osi and Kiwi?

Michael Oher is still #1 on my wishlist however. Although he turned me off when i read his interview with Scott. He just sounds kind of dumb. I know its unfair to assume that based on a written interview, but it does concern me.

I know Sintim is a hot name at SAM, and so is Cushing. Whats your thoughts on Malauga?

I don't think he's as highly rated amongst teams as he is on this board. I think people like him as a 3-4 ILB, but he's not a top 10 guy.

I think he'd be great for us at SAM. He's an ox against the run, his lack of instincts will be hidden at SAM, and he's a great blitzer. He'd fit the bill. And who knows, maybe he can pan out at MIKE in the longterm. We could sure use a sledgehammer at MIKE.

Ron Brace is starting to intrigue me as well as an inside guy on our dline.

Im still a Kaluka Maiava fan. I think he's going to be a steal in late rounds for whoever gets him. He'd be a nice depth pick up.

giantsfan
12-24-2008, 03:19 PM
I'd like to see one of these guys end up our first round pick. In vague order.

Spikes, LB
I'm a huge spikes fan, he reacts quickly and is a tremendous athlete who's a monster blitzer. He could definately take over the SAM in our D until taking over for AP. Outside of Curry and Herzlich he's the only eligible LB i'd want in round one. in round two I love Clint Sintim, but not in round one. This said we'd almost certainly have to trade up about 10 picks to grab him, but he'd be worth it.

Monroe, OT
I think either him or Oher takes a big fall on drat day, Andre Smith is the clear cut number 1, Jason Smith has been the most consistent and impressive senior LT and Eben Britton's going to be a top 10-15 pick. Oher and Monroe are battling for 4th IMO and despite the questions with oher monroe hasn't been the tenacious monster he was supposed to be. Again he won't fall all the way to our pick, most likely, but I'd like to see us trade into the early 20s if he falls that far.

DHB, WR
with no shot at crabtree this is the only WR I'd like to see us grab in the first he's been so inconsistent in college that seeing him fall to us wouldn't even surprise me. Early on he wouldn't get much burn, but he is a deep threat with great size who's flashed potentially studly hands.

Raji, DT
With Vince Oghobaase going back to school Raji's my favorite DT for our D and he would be a very nice first rounder because he could turn our run D into a dominant unit while also pushing the pocket and penetrating in our base D. Our nickel package would still primarily be Kiwi - Tuck - Alford - Osi but raji really improves our base D. I like Peria and Marks a lot to, but I don't think either is a major step up from Alford and is a similar style of DT.

Hardy, DE
Hardy's my favorite of the late first round DEs, but I wouldn't mind Selvie or Tyson Jackson either. If Kiwi moves back to SLB either of those guys would leave me happy since all three bring a new style of weapon to our pass rush.

Mays, S
Despite William Moore being banged up and too bulky this season I still feel he's the best S in this draft and will be the top safety off the boards. That could lead to Mays slipping to either our pick or the easy trade up range. Johnson's improving and has very good physical tools, but Mays and KP would be a great versatile duo that let our defense be more aggressive.

If all these guys are gone and we don't trade up for one of them I'd look for some of the guys with second round grades who fit us well, Sintim, Britt, Kam Chancellor, etc.

D-Unit
12-24-2008, 03:44 PM
Im in a draft mood lately.

So while DE isn't exactly a need for us, if for some reason my boy Greg Hardy falls to us, I think we have to take him. You don't pass up on a talent like that. Can you imagine how sick our pass rush would be with him to go along with Tuck, Osi and Kiwi?

Michael Oher is still #1 on my wishlist however. Although he turned me off when i read his interview with Scott. He just sounds kind of dumb. I know its unfair to assume that based on a written interview, but it does concern me.

I know Sintim is a hot name at SAM, and so is Cushing. Whats your thoughts on Malauga?

I don't think he's as highly rated amongst teams as he is on this board. I think people like him as a 3-4 ILB, but he's not a top 10 guy.

I think he'd be great for us at SAM. He's an ox against the run, his lack of instincts will be hidden at SAM, and he's a great blitzer. He'd fit the bill. And who knows, maybe he can pan out at MIKE in the longterm. We could sure use a sledgehammer at MIKE.

Ron Brace is starting to intrigue me as well as an inside guy on our dline.

Im still a Kaluka Maiava fan. I think he's going to be a steal in late rounds for whoever gets him. He'd be a nice depth pick up.
When you watch Mississippi play and see Hardy wreak havoc, do you notice the attention that Peria Jerry gets that helps to open up things for Hardy or do you see Hardy getting by mostly on his own accord? I see it as Jerry being the real star on that DL, as he frequently has to face double teams, but I don't know if I'm wrong by thinking that. It's nice to get different views from what others think.

giantsfan
12-24-2008, 04:15 PM
peria's the better college player IMO but I don't doubt hardy's ability to refine himself and be an impact player at the next level. Peria helps him, but Hardy plays at such a level where that's only a small part of his success. Plus with tuck, kiwi, osi, robbens, alford and Cofield he won't get double teamed to often here.

bigbluedefense
12-24-2008, 04:16 PM
When you watch Mississippi play and see Hardy wreak havoc, do you notice the attention that Peria Jerry gets that helps to open up things for Hardy or do you see Hardy getting by mostly on his own accord? I see it as Jerry being the real star on that DL, as he frequently has to face double teams, but I don't know if I'm wrong by thinking that. It's nice to get different views from what others think.

to be honest, i focus all my attention on Hardy when i watch them. im just impressed with his measurables, motor, and technique. i think that will all translate well at the next level.

he has all he needs to be a premiere player in the NFL. in a good situation, he can realize that potential. he's the kind of guy that will need to go to a good environment to succeed. he's not mature enough to do it on his own without some good veteran leadership guiding him.

D-Unit
12-24-2008, 04:19 PM
peria's the better college player IMO but I don't doubt hardy's ability to refine himself and be an impact player at the next level. Peria helps him, but Hardy plays at such a level where that's only a small part of his success. Plus with tuck, kiwi, osi, robbens, alford and Cofield he won't get double teamed to often here.
Have you thought of selecting Jerry to replace Robbins or Coefield? IMO, DT could stand to be upgraded more than DE. Jerry is one of the better penetrating DTs in this class and he's equally adept at stopping the run. He's one of my favorite prospects in this draft. I wanted the Cowboys to have a chance at him as a 3-4 DE prospect, but we traded out of Round 1.

bigbluedefense
12-24-2008, 04:22 PM
Have you thought of selecting Jerry to replace Robbins or Coefield? IMO, DT could stand to be upgraded more than DE. Jerry is one of the better penetrating DTs in this class and he's equally adept at stopping the run. He's one of my favorite prospects in this draft. I wanted the Cowboys to have a chance at him as a 3-4 DE prospect, but we traded out of Round 1.

we can go either way. its just so much harder finding a DT that can rush the passer like a DE. the bust rate is much higher.

the giants kind of got around that by using DEs on passing downs to get that inside push you want from a penetrating DT. and in our base have solid run stuffers that can penetrate.

it wouldn't shock me to see us take a DT.

however, we love stockpiling DEs. and Kiwi's contract will be up I believe in 2 years. i highly doubt we resign him bc realistically its difficult to keep him, Tuck and Osi money wise.

so i think management wants to develop another DE in the meantime that we can plug right in when Kiwi moves on. thats my guess. thats how we've developed our pass rushers in Osi and Tuck. even kiwi was drafted with the intention of developing him slowly. circumstances caused him to play his rookie season, and then we tried moving him around which effected his development. but he was drafted with the intention of being developed slowly.

i think thats how our management prefers to stockpile our rushers.

bigbluedefense
12-24-2008, 04:42 PM
i just realized, that outside of OT, ive never wanted an offensive player in the 1st round.

haha, sometimes my boners for defense get the better of me. WR? who needs a stinkin WR? let's draft another DE!

haha :)

giantsfan
12-24-2008, 04:56 PM
Speaking of OT i think we should look into trading for Jason Peters or Khalif Barnes since I've heard that both could not be back on their respective teams. Both have shown that they have the talent to be top flight tackles and I think once they got situated would finally give us a true LT that'd let Diehl slide inside to LG or swing over to RT where he first broke into the starting lineup.

giantsfan
12-24-2008, 05:00 PM
Have you thought of selecting Jerry to replace Robbins or Coefield? IMO, DT could stand to be upgraded more than DE. Jerry is one of the better penetrating DTs in this class and he's equally adept at stopping the run. He's one of my favorite prospects in this draft. I wanted the Cowboys to have a chance at him as a 3-4 DE prospect, but we traded out of Round 1.

I'm not that high on Peria since I feel like he's a rich man's version of what we've already got and I'd rather either add something new to our DT rotation like Oghobaase before he decided to go all smart guy on us and go back to school or a NT type like raji or even Brace/Taylor in round 2/3.

That said I really think we should wait on DT and not go that route in round 1 except for maybe raji. With this draft I feel like we can get better value at DE, OT, LB, WR or even S early and if a terrance taylor or ron brace is there with our latter second rounder or third rounder consider them there.

bigbluedefense
12-24-2008, 06:45 PM
oh i forgot to mention this before, but i would really like for us to draft a kicker. its long overdue.

any Mason Crosby's this year?

im still upset we passed on Mason 2 years ago.

giantsfan
12-25-2008, 04:18 AM
oh i forgot to mention this before, but i would really like for us to draft a kicker. its long overdue.

any Mason Crosby's this year?

im still upset we passed on Mason 2 years ago.

Watching his kick to win the game get blocked with a room full of bears fans was pretty freakin awesome.

bigbluedefense
12-25-2008, 11:55 AM
Im adding Clay Matthews to the list of possible SAMs. I like his game. He's strong, great blitzer, big run stuffer, has good speed, smart, and a good team player.

I sort of like him more than Cushing actually.

Giantsfan1080
12-25-2008, 11:56 AM
Im adding Clay Matthews to the list of possible SAMs. I like his game. He's strong, great blitzer, big run stuffer, has good speed, smart, and a good team player.

I sort of like him more than Cushing actually.

I mentioned that also in this thread or the other. I htink Matthews fits our system way better than Cushing.

bigbluedefense
12-25-2008, 11:58 AM
I mentioned that also in this thread or the other. I htink Matthews fits our system way better than Cushing.

nice. so i guess we're on the same page with that one.

the question is, is he a first round guy? bc im not sure if he's worth taking over some other guys in the 1st, and i doubt he lasts until the late 2nd.

he really does seem to be a nice fit though. him, sintim, spikes, they all fit well.

Giantsfan1080
12-25-2008, 04:18 PM
nice. so i guess we're on the same page with that one.

the question is, is he a first round guy? bc im not sure if he's worth taking over some other guys in the 1st, and i doubt he lasts until the late 2nd.

he really does seem to be a nice fit though. him, sintim, spikes, they all fit well.

As of now I don't think he sneaks into the 1st round but by the time the combine and all other events are over he might get in there. The NO 2nd round pick is going to be very valuable to us this year because of the depth of this draft. Reese really is a brilliant GM up to this point.

Number 10
12-25-2008, 10:33 PM
nice. so i guess we're on the same page with that one.

the question is, is he a first round guy? bc im not sure if he's worth taking over some other guys in the 1st, and i doubt he lasts until the late 2nd.

he really does seem to be a nice fit though. him, sintim, spikes, they all fit well.

I'm not sure there is one aspect of Matthews' game that is better than Cushing's. Matthews will get pushed around in the NFL like a little kid. First round? He won't be taken in the top 100.

bigbluedefense
12-26-2008, 09:16 AM
I'm not sure there is one aspect of Matthews' game that is better than Cushing's. Matthews will get pushed around in the NFL like a little kid. First round? He won't be taken in the top 100.

how would he get bullied though? its not like he'll play on the line for us. i think hes plenty strong to play SAM at the next level, and is a great blitzer and tackler. the immortal mike mayock is a big fan of his too.

Cushing's injury concerns scare me more than anything. I like his game, but not his injury history.

Number 10
12-26-2008, 10:29 AM
how would he get bullied though? its not like he'll play on the line for us. i think hes plenty strong to play SAM at the next level, and is a great blitzer and tackler. the immortal mike mayock is a big fan of his too.

Cushing's injury concerns scare me more than anything. I like his game, but not his injury history.

Cushing plays through injuries though. It's not like he has spent a lot of time on the sidelines.

And Matthews lacks both leverage and base strength. Those two put together on the strong side are a bad combination.

bigbluedefense
12-26-2008, 05:46 PM
i gotta check him out more. i never looked at that.

hopefully i can catch the USC/Penn State game and really put the eyeball to all these guys.

BaLLiN
12-27-2008, 10:44 AM
Needs to Address:

Wide receiver
Reason: Plax is tated

Top players:
Michael Crabtree - he'd be downright dirty

Darrius Heyward-Bey - i dont really like him, but he has the height and potential

Jeremy Maclin - probably not a #1 target, but nonetheless he's good

Derrick Williams - Mr. everything, he's going to be something at the next level, reminds me a bit of eddie royal with some more meat on the bones.

Late Rounders:

Aaron Kelly- tall consistent reciever for clemson

Pat Turner- big physical USC receiver

Tiquan Underwood- having the privledge of seeing him play constantly he's a good #2 guy really emerged after leonard and ramel left bc the rungame decline

Defensive Tackle:
Reason: teams run up the middle on us, and can double our ends so we don’t get pressure

Top players:

BJ Raji- like the guy, his body is ideal for what we need him to do, clog the middle

Peria Jerry- haven’t seen him play

Evander Hood- think he’s overrated

Fili Maola- ran into some trouble, but he has produced a lot of trouble, not what we’re looking for, but would help anyway.

Terrance Taylor-My personal pick, in 3 years of watching him play there is no doubt in my mind the giants and him were made for eachother, he is a dominant force in the middle.

Late Rounders:

Demonte Bolden- remember his name, don’t remember why

Cornerback
Reason: hopefully Webster doesn’t leave, Ross is inconsistent, Dockery is a NB, but Terrell Thomas could wind up being great, never the less, we need depth

Top players:

Malcolm Jenkins- best cover corner, great speed agility hands and instincts

Vontae Davis- best all around corner, leader.

Alphonso Smith- my favorite player in this draft class, and sadly like all my other favorite players, we wont get him. He is the ideal NB, he could play on the outside, but against a smaller receiver or with help over the top.

Mike Mickens- all I gotta say is that we should get him.

Victor Harris- probably best at NB or S

Late Rounders:

Wompamo Osaisai- he was great at one point, he could be developed into a starter.

my picks:
1. Alphonso Smith
2. Derrick Williams
2b. Terrance Taylor
(although i doubt we're getting NO's #2 with the season vilma had)

scottyboy
12-27-2008, 11:13 AM
Ballin:

Britt is better than Williams and Maclin

DT isn't THAT huge of a need, it's behind LB which you didn't mention

Webster is locked up, he signed a 5(?) year extension, and Ross has been hurt...

BaLLiN
12-27-2008, 12:44 PM
yeah, i couldnt find Britt, is he a junior?

well if you look at it this way, getting a DT that takes two blockers instead of 1 allows the DEs to rush and the LBs to read the play and not be held up. Plus Kehl and Goff are both gunna be nasty.

oh i didnt hear that. yea i know ross got hurt but he still was making mistakes especially against Zona.

id put needs like this then.

1. WR
2. DT
3 RB
4 CB
5 OLB
6 SS
7 DE

Giantsfan1080
12-27-2008, 01:37 PM
Britt is a junior but all signs are pointing towards him coming out.

bigbluedefense
12-27-2008, 02:17 PM
i'm officially on the Kenny Britt bandwagon. even if Plax comes back, I wouldn't mind spending a 1st on this guy, or NO's 2nd depending on where he will fall.

i know we just drafted Manningham, but big deal. Mario is a project. Britt fits our scheme and is a great insurance policy to Burress.

i know we won't draft him, but i love Alex Mack. he'd be the perfect mauler at C for us who can maul and pull as well.

BaLLiN
12-27-2008, 10:30 PM
i dont think we'll be getting NO's 2nd, vilma was traded with incetives to NO from NYJ for at least a 3rd, and he had a good season and started every game, so we're getting a 1st in 2009 most likely

Damix
12-28-2008, 08:10 AM
i dont think we'll be getting NO's 2nd, vilma was traded with incetives to NO from NYJ for at least a 3rd, and he had a good season and started every game, so we're getting a 1st in 2009 most likely

It is very doubtful that we get a 2009 first instead of a 2nd this year.