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View Full Version : Geno Atkins vs. Jeff Owens


TACKLE
07-28-2008, 04:37 PM
Which of these Georgia DT's is the better draft prospect.

eaglesalltheway
07-28-2008, 05:45 PM
I've heard of Geno Atkins, but know pretty much squat about both. I'll hold my judgement until I get around to doing research on either.

saer
07-28-2008, 06:05 PM
Jeff Owens for me he is a physcal beast that can line-up in any system and have success while I think Geno Atkins will be limited to a tampa-2 defense,

keylime_5
07-28-2008, 06:19 PM
Since the Richard Seymour and Marcus Stroud days all the Georgia Dlinemen seem like they've had the hype and college production but don't cut it in the pros. B/c of that I've been a bit skeptical on UGA DTs and DEs for the past 5 years or so. The one guy I did think would kick butt broke a bone in his neck in his first year as a starter.

saer
07-28-2008, 07:02 PM
I don't know Keylime, these guys seem legit.
Geno Atkins is an ideal tampa-2 3 gap UT. Reminds me of Tommie Harris.

Tommie Harris- combine
6'2
295 pounds
5.03 40 yard dash

Geno Atkins- projected
6'1
290 pounds
4.92 40 yard dash

Jeff Owens is an all around gut who can play UT in a tampa-2, a LDT in a 4-3 a RDT in a 4-3 or 3-4 DE. He's about 300 lbs and runs a 4.9 40 and benches 525 lbs. Similar to Broderick Bunkley who is turning into a star on the Eagles d-line.

Broderick Bunkley - combine
6'3
306 pounds
5.01 40 yard dash
44 Reps of 225

Jeff Owens- projected
6'3"
298 pounds
4.98 40 yard dash
Benches 525 lbs.

keylime_5
07-28-2008, 07:20 PM
Yeah, I don't not like them as prospects, I loved Pollack and I liked Moses and Johnson...but their failures leave a little bit of skepticism in my mind.

themaninblack
07-28-2008, 07:22 PM
I'd say these two are probably the best interior DL prospects we've had in some time. We haven't had much success recently with DEs in the pros for whatever reason but we also really havent had many DTs that were highly drafted since Seymour/Stroud. I wouldn't count these two out because of what has happened to recent DL prospects though. They are both possible day one picks. That said, I think Owens will be drafted first between the two of them.

saer
07-28-2008, 07:25 PM
Yeah, I don't not like them as prospects, I loved Pollack and I liked Moses and Johnson...but their failures leave a little bit of skepticism in my mind.

Pollack was a favorite of mine and I'm still rooting for him. It isn't really fair that you call him a bust, he broke his neck and has been strugling to recover.

Quentin Moses and Charles Johnson are going to have good years. Quintin Moses will be charged with helping replace Jason Taylor and might start at OLB this year and Charles Johnson didn't see the field very much but he will woth Mike Rucker's retirement.

Charles Grant was a 1st rounder off of Georgia and he is doing good he is a solid all around DE.

The only defensive line player (from after the Marcus Stroud and Richard Seymour era) a bust is Jonathan Sullivan.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-28-2008, 07:33 PM
Quentin Moses lasted until final cuts with the Raiders. He lasted a month with the Cardinals. I have serious questions about that kid, because a guy with his talent should have stuck on one of those teams easily.

thebow305
07-29-2008, 12:48 AM
Quentin Moses lasted until final cuts with the Raiders. He lasted a month with the Cardinals. I have serious questions about that kid, because a guy with his talent should have stuck on one of those teams easily.

Give him a chance. He will revive himself with us. :)

That being said, I'm good friends with Gene from High School, and have always had no doubt he would be a star. I voted for Big Gene. No one called him Geno until college, I didn't even know that was his real name until I saw his recruiting page. Everyone down here calls him Gene.

Cigaro
07-29-2008, 02:46 PM
Yeah, I don't not like them as prospects, I loved Pollack and I liked Moses and Johnson...but their failures leave a little bit of skepticism in my mind.

So you can deem players failures after one year in which they played behind a veteran? :confused:

keylime_5
07-29-2008, 06:02 PM
Moses is pretty much a failure, didn't make it out of rookie camp after being a 3rd round pick and is on his 3rd team, has yet to do anything at all. Was pimped as a 1st round pick his senior year. Johnson was supposed to be a 1st round pick, fell to the third, and hasn't done anything to impress in camps/practices so far. Pollack retired from injury. Marcus Howard had like 10 sacks last year or so, wasn't picked until round 5 and is a LB who might not make the team - undersized and a 'tweener without a position in the NFL. Not one Georgia lineman looks like they're gonna live up to the hype they had their senior years of that group. That's why I'm a little skeptical on Owens and Atkins.

Regarding the poll I say Owens. Atkins is undersized and probably a mid round pick at best. Owens has good size and is a good fit for a cover 2 team.

saer
07-29-2008, 06:13 PM
Atkins a mid-rounder? if he comes out, he is almost a lock to go in the 1st, he dominates in college and gets great sack numbers from the DT spot.

keylime_5
07-29-2008, 06:53 PM
He's also undersized and with the recent UGA DLinemen prospects doing what they have on draft day recently, that sounds like where he will probably end up at even though he isn't gonna be projected there.

bored of education
07-29-2008, 06:59 PM
keylime you are godly! you know all! Atkins is a 1st rouonder for sho!

keylime_5
07-29-2008, 07:05 PM
hey, undersized Georgia D-Lineman who gets a lot of sacks. Reminds me of Moses, Pollack, and Johnson (not really undersized, but too short for a DE), and Marcus Howard. Only Pollack went round one and that was because he could play OLB in the NFL with his mobility. He's doesn't have the girth, strength, quickness, or push of Sed Ellis to make up for it anyways...and Ellis wasnt really that undersize since he was about 20 lbs. heavier than Geno Atkins is. Geno might be a first rounder, but if he was doing what he's been doing for USC or LSU doing that stuff I'd be more optomistic about his chances.

Cigaro
07-29-2008, 07:57 PM
Moses is pretty much a failure, didn't make it out of rookie camp after being a 3rd round pick and is on his 3rd team, has yet to do anything at all. Was pimped as a 1st round pick before senior year, but fell because of lack of collegiate production, nothing to do with NFL or past Georgia lineman.

Fixed.

Johnson was supposed to be a 1st round pick according to draft forums, fell to the third, and has impressed in camps/practices so far, and has a good shot at starting for the Panthers this year.

Fixed.

Pollack suffered a career ending neck injury, which according to myself means future Georgia lineman won't be good.

Fixed.

Marcus Howard had like 10 sacks last year or so, wasn't picked until round 5 and is a LB who might not make the team - undersized and a 'tweener without a position in the NFL, and because of his small size, I believe that means other Georgia lineman aren't that good.

Fixed.

Regarding the poll I say Owens. Atkins is 6'1 and weighs 300 pounds, perfectly acceptable for a pass rushing defensive tackle and probably a first round lock at best. Owens is only two inches taller and few pounds heavier and is a good fit for a cover 2 team.

Fixed.

You can't base an argument off of rookie seasons, career ending injuries, and undersized players.

keylime_5
07-29-2008, 09:48 PM
Johnson was a third round pick, Moses a third round pick who didn't make it out of training camp, and Marcus Howard a 5th round pick who might not make it out of camp. All of those guys had big college careers and got the same kind of hype (save maybe Howard) that Atkins is getting now here. All went later that you guys thought at this time, none have come close to living up to the hype, yes it is early but they would have to out play their draft positions by a lot to do that. This is why I'm so skeptic on the Georgia D-Linemen like Owens and Atkins. Neither is the physical specimen of a Charles Grant or Richard Seymour or Marcus Stroud. I doubt either goes first round.

Cigaro
07-29-2008, 10:07 PM
First of all, you must remember this a draft forum. Not a god damn person is involved with actual scouting for a NFL team. So saying someone was hyped up here means jack ****.

Charles Johnson came into his senior year with no hype, but played well, and became a star to the common draft follower. The NFL didn't think the same, and was he was picked in the third round. He didn't play much in his first year, but is now in serious contention for the starting job opposite Julius Peppers for the Panthers.

Quentin Moses did come into the season with a lot of hype, but his play his senior year is why he fell, because he just wasn't that good collegiality. So you can't make a case for Georgia lineman not being good in the pros and use the example of someone who wasn't great even in college.

Marcus Howard was undersized for the college game, so of course he's going to be extremely undersized for the NFL. You can't make a case for Georgia lineman not being good in the pros and use the example of someone who was undersized even at the collegiate level.

Geno Atkins and Jeff Owens are completely different prospects than the examples you've listed, unless both bomb it this season like Moses did. They aren't extremely undersized, and they aren't one year wonders with hype built up from draft forums.

keylime_5
07-29-2008, 10:14 PM
Owens and Atkins receive their hype from the same people who hyped Moses and Johnson before the draft: those here on this board. Show me what scouts and NFL execs say Owens and Atkins are first round picks and I'll show you the ones who said Johnson and Moses were.

Cigaro
07-29-2008, 10:58 PM
Owens and Atkins receive their hype from the same people who hyped Moses and Johnson before the draft: those here on this board. Show me what scouts and NFL execs say Owens and Atkins are first round picks and I'll show you the ones who said Johnson and Moses were.

When it gets draft time, I will. You don't expect them to be spouting off about prospects during training camp do you?

themaninblack
07-29-2008, 11:43 PM
Owens and Atkins receive their hype from the same people who hyped Moses and Johnson before the draft: those here on this board. Show me what scouts and NFL execs say Owens and Atkins are first round picks and I'll show you the ones who said Johnson and Moses were.

Show me hundreds of players from many different schools who receive crazy hype on these boards from FANS who don't pan out.

What happened to AJ Hawk and Bobby Carpenter? If were going to play that game those two were supposed to be the next amazing athletes at linebacker in the NFL. Not to say Hawk hasn't some success(but not nearly the success he should have for a TOP 5 LB) but has Bobby Carpenter done anything worth mentioning to anyone?

Thats it, ALL OSU linebackers are gonna suck from now on. That Laurinitis kid, forget it.

And we won't even go into QBs.

saer
07-29-2008, 11:51 PM
Owens and Atkins receive their hype from the same people who hyped Moses and Johnson before the draft: those here on this board. Show me what scouts and NFL execs say Owens and Atkins are first round picks and I'll show you the ones who said Johnson and Moses were.

Johnson was never seen as a 1st rounder, he was always seen as that all around LDE who would go in the second. He fell to the early 3rd round, not really a fall. He is similar, physically and play style wise to Charles Grant.

TACKLE
07-30-2008, 12:17 AM
Owens and Atkins receive their hype from the same people who hyped Moses and Johnson before the draft: those here on this board. Show me what scouts and NFL execs say Owens and Atkins are first round picks and I'll show you the ones who said Johnson and Moses were.

Let me know if I'm breaking any rules by talking about info from another site but...

NFL Draft Scout had Charles Johnson and Quentin Moses as 2-3 round picks and has Jeff Owens and Geno Atkins projected as 1st round picks.

keylime_5
07-30-2008, 09:19 AM
Before their drafts both those guys were in first rounds of most mock drafts. Johnson was a top 20 pick in some. Of course by the time the draft came around it was apparent that neither was gonna be a first rounder. Both went much later than initially thought

keylime_5
07-30-2008, 09:20 AM
Show me hundreds of players from many different schools who receive crazy hype on these boards from FANS who don't pan out.

What happened to AJ Hawk and Bobby Carpenter? If were going to play that game those two were supposed to be the next amazing athletes at linebacker in the NFL. Not to say Hawk hasn't some success(but not nearly the success he should have for a TOP 5 LB) but has Bobby Carpenter done anything worth mentioning to anyone?

Thats it, ALL OSU linebackers are gonna suck from now on. That Laurinitis kid, forget it.

And we won't even go into QBs.

If AJ and Bobby turn out to be busts (AJ is already not a bust, though he can still isn't top 5 worthy yet - only played 2 years so far)....then would it not leave you skeptical a little bit about OSU linebackers in the future?

keylime_5
07-30-2008, 09:23 AM
When it gets draft time, I will. You don't expect them to be spouting off about prospects during training camp do you?

Not sure you understood that. Point is that no one ever said the NFL people are saying these two DTs are first round picks just like no one ever said the NFL people were saying Johnson and Moses were first round picks. The only people I'm talking about are draftniks on the internet and tv.

themaninblack
07-30-2008, 01:47 PM
If AJ and Bobby turn out to be busts (AJ is already not a bust, though he can still isn't top 5 worthy yet - only played 2 years so far)....then would it not leave you skeptical a little bit about OSU linebackers in the future?

not in the slightest. I'm not one to put much stock in a programs "pedigree" as they call it.

Mr. Stiller
08-01-2008, 01:24 AM
I dont' see owens as a 1 Gap UT in any system.

I think he fits the mold of a 2-Gap 3-4 NT or 2-Gap 4-3 NT.

He's strong, can hold the line and can stuff the run.

Mr. Stiller
08-01-2008, 01:28 AM
not in the slightest. I'm not one to put much stock in a programs "pedigree" as they call it.

Yep, every player is different, have to match their skillset into what you want or find a way to mold what you want around their skillset.

Georgia has had a fair amount of trouble wiht players on the DL.. but then you see tommie Harris. I wouldn't think twice about Grabbing Jeff Owens to play 3-4 NT.



Though I will think of some schools with Disciplinary struggles.. (Tennessee?)

Matthew Jones
08-05-2008, 08:18 AM
I don't know Keylime, these guys seem legit.
Geno Atkins is an ideal tampa-2 3 gap UT. Reminds me of Tommie Harris.

Tommie Harris- combine
6'2
295 pounds
5.03 40 yard dash

Geno Atkins- projected
6'1
290 pounds
4.92 40 yard dash

Jeff Owens is an all around gut who can play UT in a tampa-2, a LDT in a 4-3 a RDT in a 4-3 or 3-4 DE. He's about 300 lbs and runs a 4.9 40 and benches 525 lbs. Similar to Broderick Bunkley who is turning into a star on the Eagles d-line.

Broderick Bunkley - combine
6'3
306 pounds
5.01 40 yard dash
44 Reps of 225

Jeff Owens- projected
6'3"
298 pounds
4.98 40 yard dash
Benches 525 lbs.

So we're juding these guys on just measurables? Then apparently Todd Boeckman is better than Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. Also, on topic, I like Owens a bit more.

Unbiased
08-07-2008, 04:26 PM
Owens is the better prospect as of right now. He is a great looking 3-4 NT. Unbelievable strength.

Cigaro
08-07-2008, 07:53 PM
Owens is the better prospect as of right now. He is a great looking 3-4 NT. Unbelievable strength.

He would have to add a lot, 30-40 pounds, to be an effective nose tackle.

eaglesfan_45
08-07-2008, 10:02 PM
He would have to add a lot, 30-40 pounds, to be an effective nose tackle.

Not entirely true. What you need is muscle mass. You just need to be strong enough to do it which Jeff Owens is. You need a NT who is powerful enough to neutralize the center and delay a Guard from reaching LB level and blocking him (which Jeff Owens is). There is no such thing as an undersized 3-4 DL, just a DL not strong enough to do the job needed.

Cigaro
08-07-2008, 10:08 PM
Not entirely true. What you need is muscle mass. You just need to be strong enough to do it which Jeff Owens is. You need a NT who is powerful enough to neutralize the center and delay a Guard from reaching LB level and blocking him (which Jeff Owens is). There is no such thing as an undersized 3-4 DL, just a DL not strong enough to do the job needed.

Their is such thing as an undersized 3-4 lineman. 3-4 lineman have to be bigger than their 4-3 counterparts mainly because of two things; strength and the fact they will take a lot more punishment. I've seen Owens play for three years now, and he doesn't have the strength to constantly take on double teams. His size also means that the double teams are going to wear him out a lot more than if he was larger. Sure, you can be such an amazing athlete to be under 300 and be an effective nose tackle, but such a prospect has yet to emerge.

indyfan1985
08-08-2008, 11:55 AM
I think there is a very good chance the Colts look long and hard at these 2 DT's in the draft since DT might be their biggest need.

Unbiased
08-08-2008, 07:50 PM
He would have to add a lot, 30-40 pounds, to be an effective nose tackle.

It's about strength and leverage, not weight.

keylime_5
08-08-2008, 10:05 PM
It won't matter how strong you are if another guy is pushing you from the other side which is why a NT in a 3-4 nowadays are usually at LEAST 310 to 320 lbs. bare minimum just to have the anchorage.

Cigaro
08-08-2008, 11:03 PM
It's about strength and leverage, not weight.

As I've stated, he doesn't have that strength at his current weight, and as keylime stated, the weight is needed for anchorage. It's not pure coincidence that all NT are in the same weight range.

georgiafan
08-11-2008, 11:56 AM
John Sullivan is only DL from UGA to be a bust so not sure why you hold something agianst two players for something that happen about 5 years ago. You can't count Pollack as a bust since he was injures and it's to early to tell about Moses and Johnson who both have a chance as starting in there 2nd year. Marcus Howard is undersized, but he is allready making plays for the colts and had a sack in the first game.

I don't see Owens has a elite prospect I would say 2nd or 3rd round right now. I think Atkins is the better prospect he had more TFL and sacks then Dorsey did last year and didn't even start half the games. Atkins might not be right for every scheme but has 2 years to get bigger and stronger. He is a little undersized so I would say he comes back for his senior year. Kade Weston could be a better pro prospect then either since has NFL size.

Geo
08-22-2008, 12:52 PM
Marcus Howard is a pass-rushing demon and hopefully is the first turn of the tide for greater success for Georgia defensive lineman-turned-pros.

I haven't paid much attention to Owens and Atkins, as I usually focus on seniors, but I'm looking forward to seing how they play. The listed 298 for Owens might be generous, he's looks huge.