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Brent
07-30-2008, 09:26 AM
From: http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/073008/spl_311199619.shtml

It might sound ridiculous that a mouthguard could make a significant difference in performance, but the makers of the Pure Power Edge say it improves body alignment, strength, balance, flexibility and endurance.

"I know it works," said Jacksonville dentist Scott Wagner, one of about 200 dentists worldwide selling the specially fitted mouthguards. "There hasn't been a single athlete that I haven't been able to make stronger, better or faster."

That seems like a sensational claim, but athletes are buying it - and the PPE costs $900 for amateurs and $1,700 for professionals.

This is insane. But from Sando at ESPN:

Rams kicker Josh Brown, a 6-foot-8 high jumper when he was in high school, swears by the device. Brown: "You really notice a major difference in your longevity, energy and focus. Seeing the difference in the amount of weight you can lift is almost immediate for anyone who puts it in. I noticed it a lot on the field when I wasn't getting tired, and I felt stronger at the end of games."

This is nuts. I wish I could try it out to see if they are for real.

Gay Ork Wang
07-30-2008, 09:28 AM
how the hell does a mouth guard make u stronger?

CJSchneider
07-30-2008, 09:52 AM
It's called the Placebo affect.

Caddy
07-30-2008, 10:02 AM
how the hell does a mouth guard make u stronger?

I guess it could raise your confidence which could possibly allow you to perform slightly better. Other than that CJ hit it on the nose I think.

PACKmanN
07-30-2008, 10:08 AM
how the hell does a mouth guard make u stronger?

when your the only one that can afford such a expensive mouthpiece. This allowing your ego to get bigger.

Gay Ork Wang
07-30-2008, 10:45 AM
That doesnt actually make u stronger than u are, this just allows you to use all of what u are capable of

McBain
07-30-2008, 12:08 PM
makes sense to me.

Shane P. Hallam
07-30-2008, 12:16 PM
It could be comfortability. If it is a more comfortable mouthpiece, it could relax you more, etc. etc.

McBain
07-30-2008, 12:17 PM
It could be comfortability. If it is a more comfortable mouthpiece, it could relax you more, etc. etc.

If you read the article it gives you the reason why it works.

Smokey Joe
07-30-2008, 12:22 PM
I want one...

Brothgar
07-30-2008, 12:29 PM
How proponents say it works
The PPE more or less operates under the premise that almost everyone has some component of a bad bite, even if it is very slight (underbite, overbite, crossbite, etc.)
Muscles of the jaws, head, and neck are strained by the bad bite. In turn, this strain causes torque on other muscles as they compensate for the imbalance. These muscles, in turn, affect other muscles, creating a cascade effect.
The reason that the spine comes into play is that the muscles in such close proximity of the jaw can pass strain onto muscles interacting with the top of the spine.
The result is torque on the top of the spine, which is "rotational or pulling pressure not in a balanced motion." This imbalance of the body and spine prevents the core muscles (which affect strength, balance, and flexibility) from performing at their ultimate potential.
The PPE, based on the science of neuromuscular dentistry, gets rid of the residual tension and torque that come from the bite and allows for immediate improvements in performance

Do I buy it ... I don't know forcing the jaw into an unnatural (for the individual) alignment at least in my eyes would cause more strain for the jaw trying to to return back to its natural position being an overbite or whatever. But I'm not a dentist or even an animal biologist so I know jack.

CJSchneider
07-30-2008, 12:35 PM
FROM http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/073008/spl_311199619.shtml

The key to the PPE lies in neuromuscular dentistry and the belief that jaw alignment can have a major effect on the rest of the body. According to the Canada-based company that markets the PPE, the jaw is not in its optimal position for 90 percent of the population - an overbite in most cases.

Wagner said the brain spends half of its energy on head, neck and jaw position, and by finding the ideal jaw position and locking it in place with a fitted mouthguard, strength is released to the rest of the body because the brain can focus more on core muscles. Endurance improves because the PPE opens up the airway and allows for better circulation and oxygen flow, Wagner said.

I was a Health and Human Performance Major in college with a content focus in theraputics and conditioning. This is no more then placebo.


Wagner said his proposal was met with plenty of skepticism at first, but that changed after he persuaded Boston outfielder Manny Ramirez to get fitted.

Wagner took Ramirez's bite registrations and used a quick-setting dental gel to make a mold. Wagner then conducted strength tests, and the quirky Ramirez insisted on wearing the goo-like substance throughout that day's practice.

"It was hilarious. That stuff doesn't taste good," Wagner said. "Everyone was calling his name when he walked by, and the fans were like, 'What was that green stuff in his mouth?' "

Wagner said he also fitted Boston second baseman Dustin Pedroia, pitcher Javier Lopez, shortstop Jed Lowrie and pitcher Jonathan Papelbon, a Jacksonville native.


So if it works that well, we should have recent pics of all these players with mouth pieces right?

drowe
07-30-2008, 12:45 PM
how the hell does a mouth guard make u stronger?

same way a chiroquacker can cure your toothache.

CJSchneider
07-30-2008, 01:10 PM
same way a chiroquacker can cure your toothache.

I can tell from that statement you have never studied chiropractics or human physiology in depth.

Brent
07-30-2008, 01:55 PM
same way a chiroquacker can cure your toothache.
Chiropractics is an incredibly worthwhile medicine, especially with regards to physical rehab and injury recovery. So, don't knock it unless you've been a patient.

Crickett
07-30-2008, 01:58 PM
Unless the mouthpiece gives me super powers, I'm not paying $1700 for it.

Brent
07-30-2008, 02:00 PM
Unless the mouthpiece gives me super powers, I'm not paying $1700 for it.
It said that it was $900 for amateurs haha

Paranoidmoonduck
07-30-2008, 02:11 PM
It actually injects steroids directly into your gums.

drowe
07-30-2008, 02:19 PM
Chiropractics is an incredibly worthwhile medicine, especially with regards to physical rehab and injury recovery. So, don't knock it unless you've been a patient.

patient? you mean a customer.

"my back hurt once, but, now all i have to do is go to the chirpractor 3 times a week and it feels like 20% better."
-typical chiro follower.

it's a quack profession. they make ya better temporarily, but you become reliant on their services in the long term.

Brent
07-30-2008, 02:21 PM
patient? you mean a customer.

"my back hurt once, but, now all i have to do is go to the chirpractor 3 times a week and it feels like 20% better."
-typical chiro follower.

it's a quack profession. they make ya better temporarily, but you become reliant on their services in the long term.
It seems you have no idea how it works. People who go regularly are typically in chronic situations. Many people go until their problem is rehabilitated and then only return if the problems come back.

drowe
07-30-2008, 02:27 PM
It seems you have no idea how it works. People who go regularly are typically in chronic situations. Many people go until their problem is rehabilitated and then only return if the problems come back.

yes. the only problem is, the pain isn't chronic until they start going to the quack, and "when the problem comes back" tends to be 3 days later.

Brent
07-30-2008, 02:37 PM
yes. the only problem is, the pain isn't chronic until they start going to the quack, and "when the problem comes back" tends to be 3 days later.
Yeah, that's true. Which is exactly why I don't have to go for my back problems and knee rehab anymore.

MetSox17
07-30-2008, 02:39 PM
Hhhhgggggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!

Dennab
07-30-2008, 02:44 PM
Chiropractics is an incredibly worthwhile medicine, especially with regards to physical rehab and injury recovery. So, don't knock it unless you've been a patient.

There is little to no real science behind chirporactics. It's basically an alternative medicine that hasn't been proven effective in most cases.

eaglesalltheway
07-30-2008, 05:39 PM
Unless the mouthpiece gives me super powers, I'm not paying $1700 for it.

That is a gem there. That may just make it to my sig Crickett.

eaglesalltheway
07-30-2008, 05:44 PM
Give me a cheap 5 dollar mouthpiece that I chew on until it only protects my four front teeth and I'll be fine.

CJSchneider
07-30-2008, 10:35 PM
Actually there is a great deal of science to prove chiropractics. The reason it has been labeled a "quack" medicine is because of the money that is also involved in the field of medicine. You see, a chiroractor won't prescribe, in most cases, pain meds or recommend surgery. Because of this, as well as the revenue it fails to create, insurance companies in the past failed to cover chiropractic treatment. If you look, as it is being a more proven method, these insurance companies are now backing chiropractics because of the money it saves. I am a prime example of the benefit of chiropractics and could tell you in depth, from a personal as well as academic standpoint why they are not quacks.

iloxygenil
07-30-2008, 10:50 PM
patient? you mean a customer.

"my back hurt once, but, now all i have to do is go to the chirpractor 3 times a week and it feels like 20% better."
-typical chiro follower.

it's a quack profession. they make ya better temporarily, but you become reliant on their services in the long term.

Spoken in pure ignorance. You understand nothing about how the body is supposed to be in alignment to function properly and is constantly trying to get itself back there, so if you're out your body forces other pieces of your body out of alignment to keep the overall body in line. Just like sitting on a fat wallet, or really any wallet for that matter will leave you with a sore back after a while because your body is correcting because your hips are out of alignment.

I could go on and on, but there are already plenty of books for you to read to understand exactly why it's such a great medicine. The fact that you think you have to go for the rest of your life just shows how little you know. If you catch it early enough instead of waiting too late like most people, you can actually tell a huge difference, I used to get adjusted once a week, then it was once a month, then once every 6 months, now it's been a couple years and I still am feeling good. You have to learn how to take care of the body once it's put back in proper alignment too. It's not like there's a miracle drug to help you with that...

niel89
07-31-2008, 04:07 AM
my sister got a custom fitted mouth piece after using a normal one for a year. she said it made a huge difference in breathing easily as well as communicating on the field. im going to get one soon because my dentist does them for free to athletes.

brat316
07-31-2008, 04:30 AM
my sister got a custom fitted mouth piece after using a normal one for a year. she said it made a huge difference in breathing easily as well as communicating on the field. im going to get one soon because my dentist does them for free to athletes.

couldn't you just buy one of those soft mold jell ones. Where you heat it in warm water then press it to your teeth. Then again your dentist does it free. For Athletes only how would he know?

brat316
07-31-2008, 04:34 AM
I was thinking the mouth piece would just help you breath easier, from the picture it looks more like a retainer but a bit thicker. Also is it only for the lower jaw, or is it for top and bottom.

Though I don't see the need for that high of a price tag for it. I wonder though how much it actual protects your from teeth falling out, concisions, broken jaws.

Brent
07-31-2008, 06:15 AM
my sister got a custom fitted mouth piece after using a normal one for a year. she said it made a huge difference in breathing easily as well as communicating on the field. im going to get one soon because my dentist does them for free to athletes.
A friend of mine in HS's father was an oral surgeon and he had some custom mouthpiece, too. I dont know if he saw any benefits in performance but I know that it was probably way better for his jaw's safety than a regular mouthpiece. I think it was the same one that a lot of the Cowboys were using at the time.

Excel Monkey
07-31-2008, 07:44 AM
Actually there is a great deal of science to prove chiropractics. The reason it has been labeled a "quack" medicine is because of the money that is also involved in the field of medicine. You see, a chiroractor won't prescribe, in most cases, pain meds or recommend surgery. Because of this, as well as the revenue it fails to create, insurance companies in the past failed to cover chiropractic treatment. If you look, as it is being a more proven method, these insurance companies are now backing chiropractics because of the money it saves. I am a prime example of the benefit of chiropractics and could tell you in depth, from a personal as well as academic standpoint why they are not quacks.

Really? Could you point me to some of this "science"?

The fact is it is an alternative medicine and most of the procedures are FAR from proven.

drowe
07-31-2008, 07:52 AM
before you call me ignorant, ya should know that i'm not just a guy that likes to hate on chiros. i work for an insurance company (yes, we do cover quacks) in their research department. my job is to track trends involving medical conditions and treatment recieved. so, i'm not pulling stuff out of my ass when i say chiropractors tend to make you reliant on their services.

CJSchneider
07-31-2008, 07:57 AM
Really or denab or excel monkey or whom ever you are.
Start here "http://www.dcdoctor.com/pages/rightpages_allaboutchiro/research/research_main.html

CJSchneider
07-31-2008, 08:03 AM
so, i'm not pulling stuff out of my ass when i say chiropractors tend to make you reliant on their services.

Well, here is something for you to chew on. Including me, in this thread alone, two chiropractic patients have admited that is not the case. Thats "Personal Testimoney".

Just to let you think about something else. I had a bone and joint specialist and two general practitioners told me nothing was wrong. The bone and joint specialist, wanted to operate, even after telling me he saw nothing in an x-ray, he wanted to cut open my back, "Just to look around" he told me. Any doctor, who has no reason, but wants to operate, in my opinion is the quack. The chiropractor took one x-ray, looked at me said "here is your problem" I was pain free in 3 weeks. Due to what my injury is, pain I had felt since childhood is now gone.

Excel Monkey
07-31-2008, 08:18 AM
Really or denab or excel monkey or whom ever you are.
Start here "http://www.dcdoctor.com/pages/rightpages_allaboutchiro/research/research_main.html

Try looking at an unbiased source. Wikipedia is always a good place to start research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic

The evidence just isn't there to support most chiropractic procedures yet. Will it be there eventually? Who knows, but right now, anybody who thinks it is a proven science is mistaken.

Excel Monkey
07-31-2008, 08:19 AM
Well, here is something for you to chew on. Including me, in this thread alone, two chiropractic patients have admited that is not the case. Thats "Personal Testimoney".

Just to let you think about something else. I had a bone and joint specialist and two general practitioners told me nothing was wrong. The bone and joint specialist, wanted to operate, even after telling me he saw nothing in an x-ray, he wanted to cut open my back, "Just to look around" he told me. Any doctor, who has no reason, but wants to operate, in my opinion is the quack. The chiropractor took one x-ray, looked at me said "here is your problem" I was pain free in 3 weeks. Due to what my injury is, pain I had felt since childhood is now gone.

If you believe personal testimony proves anything, you have no idea about how science works.

CJSchneider
07-31-2008, 08:22 AM
Again, words from a non-believer. Bring evidence or you are just a voice.
When did you last have a chiropractic adjustment?

Excel Monkey
07-31-2008, 08:27 AM
Again, words from a non-believer. Bring evidence or you are just a voice.
When did you last have a chiropractic adjustment?

I don't need a "chiropractic adjustment". Even if I had back pain or whatever, I most definitely would not subject myself to a pseudo-science like chiropractics.

I am a non-believer. Why? The same reason I don't believe in those magnetic wrist bands. There isn't enough science to back up the claims.

Like I said, go through Wikipedia and read some of the journals they reference. Study results are inconclusive at best for most chiropractic procedures.

CJSchneider
07-31-2008, 08:32 AM
From Wiki: "Although spinal manipulation can have serious complications in rare cases,[13] chiropractic care is generally safe when employed skillfully and appropriately"

Dude, you sign a "if this goes wrong" waiver when you have your tonsils taken out so it is as unsafe as anything else.

I already explained to you why the battle between chiropractics and "standard medicine" exists. Oh and 3oo years ago, it was a "standard" medical practice to "LEACH" people.

Excel Monkey
07-31-2008, 08:33 AM
From Wiki: "Although spinal manipulation can have serious complications in rare cases,[13] chiropractic care is generally safe when employed skillfully and appropriately"

Dude, you sign a "if this goes wrong" waiver when you have your tonsils taken out so it is as unsafe as anything else.

I already explained to you why the battle between chiropractics and "standard medicine" exists. Oh and 3oo years ago, it was a "standard" medical practice to "LEACH" people.

I never said chiropractics isn't safe. I also never said it is used to "leach" people. I simply said there is not enough evidence to back up the claims and it is a pseudo-science.

drowe
07-31-2008, 08:34 AM
Well, here is something for you to chew on. Including me, in this thread alone, two chiropractic patients have admited that is not the case. Thats "Personal Testimoney".




well, it's actually spelled 'testimony'
testimoney is the cash you get when you have to sell your left nut to pay your chiro bills :)

CJSchneider
07-31-2008, 08:35 AM
If that were true, why are insurance companies now paying for it as an accepted medical procedure?

Excel Monkey
07-31-2008, 08:41 AM
If that were true, why are insurance companies now paying for it as an accepted medical procedure?

Because they include it as part of their plan? They could cover spiritual healing if they wanted.

CJSchneider
07-31-2008, 08:43 AM
I didn't know it was that common for insurance companies to pay out for psuedo-scientific procedures.

Excel Monkey
07-31-2008, 08:46 AM
I didn't know it was that common for insurance companies to pay out for psuedo-scientific procedures.

Well now you do.

CJSchneider
07-31-2008, 08:48 AM
And now you know that chiropractics works!

Edit: I'm glad we had this talk.

drowe
07-31-2008, 08:54 AM
If that were true, why are insurance companies now paying for it as an accepted medical procedure?

because there's a demand for it. insurance companies aren't the evil empire you might think they are. if a lot of people are recieving chiro treatment, it'll be covered.

and, just to be clear, i have no problem admitting that, in certain situations, a chiropractor may be the best course of treatment.
BUT, there are instances of scam, and over-reaching. chiros think they're the answer to everything. it's not uncommon for a pregnant woman to see a chiro and and have the chiro insist on being in the delivery room, which really, just gets in the way of the real doctors.
chiropractors also think they can cure newborn babies of colic, because, according to them, colic is caused by alignment issues. ya really want to bring a 5 week old in for an adjustment?

and, yes, there are absolutely instances of becoming dependant on a chiropractor to a point that a sore back has turned into permanent spinal damage.

CJSchneider
07-31-2008, 09:09 AM
because there's a demand for it. insurance companies aren't the evil empire you might think they are. if a lot of people are recieving chiro treatment, it'll be covered.

So the insurance companies are basicly just out to make money.

and, just to be clear, i have no problem admitting that, in certain situations, a chiropractor may be the best course of treatment.

That's all you had to say in the first place

BUT, there are instances of scam, and over-reaching.

Same as anywhere else


chiros think they're the answer to everything. it's not uncommon for a pregnant woman to see a chiro and and have the chiro insist on being in the delivery room, which really, just gets in the way of the real doctors.
Proving they care about the well-being of their patient. When those two doctors argue, then we have problems.

chiropractors also think they can cure newborn babies of colic, because, according to them, colic is caused by alignment issues. ya really want to bring a 5 week old in for an adjustment?

My middle child had trouble sleeping. When she was about 6 months old the chiropractor I was seeing made an adjustment on her and gave me several pieces of memory foam and customized her carseat to cushion her back. He did this all free of charge and as you know, that stuff isn't cheap. She never had another problem. Mind you this was after pediatrician said "well, there isn't a whole lot that we can do, try some whiskey on her gums."

and, yes, there are absolutely instances of becoming dependant on a chiropractor to a point that a sore back has turned into permanent spinal damage.

I've never seen or heard of one.

Look, I'm not trying to start World War 3 over a chiropractics debate, but you say it's a quack and not one person who I have ever met and spoken to has ever had one negative thing to say about their treatment. People who I have met who have never been are the only ones with anthing negative to say. That just seems like more then a coincidence.

Brent
07-31-2008, 09:18 AM
when did Wikipedia become a reliable source?

drowe
07-31-2008, 09:19 AM
because there's a demand for it. insurance companies aren't the evil empire you might think they are. if a lot of people are recieving chiro treatment, it'll be covered.

So the insurance companies are basicly just out to make money.



that makes no sense. insurance companies don't make money when people recieve treatment of any kind. the best case scenario for an insurance company is a member that pays for coverage and never uses it.

Excel Monkey
07-31-2008, 09:22 AM
when did Wikipedia become a reliable source?

It is a great place to start research because it references many quality sources. Also, I'm sure you've heard about that study that showed that Wikipedia is as accurate as Encyclopedia Britannica.

http://news.cnet.com/Study-Wikipedia-as-accurate-as-Britannica/2100-1038_3-5997332.html

Brent
07-31-2008, 09:24 AM
It is a great place to start research because it references many quality sources. Also, I'm sure you've heard about that study that showed that Wikipedia is as accurate as Encyclopedia Britannica.

http://news.cnet.com/Study-Wikipedia-as-accurate-as-Britannica/2100-1038_3-5997332.html
I think it's alright if you just want to figure out what something is on a basic level but I think for topic such as this one it's obviously going to have problems. Hell, there is even a HPOV thing on the wiki page for Chiropractics.

Excel Monkey
07-31-2008, 09:27 AM
I think it's alright if you just want to figure out what something is on a basic level but I think for topic such as this one it's obviously going to have problems. Hell, there is even a HPOV thing on the wiki page for Chiropractics.

That's why you need to look at the references, not just read what is written on the page.