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L-Train79
07-30-2008, 05:25 PM
I'm watching the Top 10 players not in the Hall of Fame. So I have a question. Who are your top 10 players still playing now, that will be in the Hall of Fame? (Excluding Brett Favre because he is obvious and I don't know if he is playing or not right now)

Here is my list in no specific order
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Larry Allen
Ladanian Tomlinson
Torry Holt
Isaac Bruce
Ray Lewis
Orlando Pace
Terrell Owens
Randy Moss

stephenson86
07-30-2008, 05:26 PM
i dont know about isaac bruce or TO but i agree with the rest

L-Train79
07-30-2008, 05:37 PM
Look at Bruce's numbers...they are good enough and he has a ring. TO is good enough and his numbers will only get better. If it wasn't for his character, people would not think twice about him. (But he should win a ring to help him)

Splat
07-30-2008, 06:33 PM
Tony Gonzalez (http://www.nfl.com/players/tonygonzalez/profile?id=GON587645)

Tom Brady (http://www.nfl.com/players/tombrady/profile?id=BRA371156)

Peyton Manning (http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonmanning/profile?id=MAN515097)

Marvin Harrison (http://www.nfl.com/players/marvinharrison/profile?id=HAR608874)

Ray Lewis (http://www.nfl.com/players/raylewis/profile?id=LEW562347)

LaDainian Tomlinson (http://www.nfl.com/players/ladainiantomlinson/profile?id=TOM683150)

Champ Bailey (http://www.nfl.com/players/champbailey/profile?id=BAI582194)

Brian Urlacher (http://www.nfl.com/players/brianurlacher/profile?id=URL059326)

Derrick Brooks (http://www.nfl.com/players/derrickbrooks/profile?id=BRO122327)

W. Jones (http://www.nfl.com/players/walterjones/profile?id=JON795619)

Cribbs>Hester
07-30-2008, 06:50 PM
Marvin Harrison

and

JASON TAYLOR

MetSox17
07-30-2008, 07:03 PM
Darren Woodson, isn't playing but isn't in the HOF either.

L-Train79
07-30-2008, 07:16 PM
I forgot about Tony Gonzalez and Marvin Harrison...I'd probably put them over Isaac Bruce. And I'd pick Larry Allen over Walter Jones. I wanna see other people's lists as well.

703SKINS202
07-30-2008, 07:57 PM
Im not going to do a whole list because it would be too similar to everyone else's but I think one guy who flies under the radar is Lorenzo Neal. Blocked for 11 straight 1,000 yard rushers in his career, albeit he had some exceptional rb's he was always a huge key to their sucess and should be rewarded for dominating the posistion in his era. Is he still looking to play I know the chargers let him go...

WMD
07-30-2008, 08:02 PM
Adam Vinatieri.

illmatic74
07-30-2008, 08:06 PM
QB Peyton Manning
QB Tom Brady
HB Emmit Smith
HB Marshall Faulk
HB Ladanian Tomilson
WR Jerry Rice
WR Cris Carter
WR Terrel Owens
WR Randy Moss
WR Marvin Harrison
TE Shannon Sharpe
TE Tony Gonzalez
OT Orlando Pace
OT Johnathan Ogden
OG Larry Allen
OG Will Shields
OC Kevin Mawee
DE Michael Strahan
DT John Randle
DT Warren Sapp
LB Ray Lewis
LB Junion Seau
LB Derrick Brooks
CB Deion Sanders
CB Champ Bailey
DB Rod Woodson
DB Aenas Wiiliams

themaninblack
07-30-2008, 08:56 PM
Anyone think Willie Anderson is HOF material? He's been an All Pro 4x and a Pro Bowler 4x but many feel that his first awards were long overdue. He's been the best RT in football for some time.

He has Anthony Munoz's backing btw. Not that it rly means anything.

scottyboy
07-30-2008, 08:58 PM
Osi Umenyiora

Raymell Rice

Brian Leonard

Jeremy Zuttah

Kenny Phillips

A Perfect Score
07-30-2008, 09:21 PM
Ray Lewis and John Lynch would be my top 2

Splat
07-30-2008, 09:25 PM
I forgot about Tony Gonzalez and Marvin Harrison...I'd probably put them over Isaac Bruce. And I'd pick Larry Allen over Walter Jones. I wanna see other people's lists as well.

As of now Larry Allen is not on a team you said still playing.:)

BlindSite
07-30-2008, 10:26 PM
Osi Umenyiora

Raymell Rice

Brian Leonard

Jeremy Zuttah

Kenny Phillips

I don't know if anyone will get it, but I lol'd

Brent
07-30-2008, 10:45 PM
Bruce should be in the HOF.

holt_bruce81
07-30-2008, 10:47 PM
i dont know about isaac bruce or TO but i agree with the rest

Bruce will get in, there's no doubt about it.

CJSchneider
07-30-2008, 10:49 PM
Just 10 is tough, but here is my top 10

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Junior Seau
Ladanian Tomlinson
Tony Gonzalez
Brian Urlacher
Ray Lewis
Orlando Pace
Terrell Owens
Randy Moss

Burns336
07-31-2008, 02:07 AM
People who think Owens might not make it but Bruce will are nuts.

Owens is going to finish either 2 or 3 (depending on Moss) all time in TD receptions, not to mention he's one of the most dominant receivers ever.

703SKINS202
07-31-2008, 02:12 AM
People who think Owens might not make it but Bruce will are nuts.

Owens is going to finish either 2 or 3 (depending on Moss) all time in TD receptions, not to mention he's one of the most dominant receivers ever.

I agree. I think TO is a lock pretty much. He may get snubbed for first ballot but he has to be in the hall if his career continues the way it has been.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-31-2008, 03:36 AM
For people debating on Owens, he will get in. It appears increasingly likely that he, Moss, and Tomlinson will form up the #3, #4, and #5 of the all time touchdown list by the time they call it quits. Tomlinson might even bump Emmitt Smith at #2.

Of the guys who have or may yet retire before this season kicks off...

DL Michael Strahan
DL Warren Sapp
OL Jonathan Ogden
OL Larry Allen

Of the guys a year or more away from retiring...

QB Brett Favre
QB Peyton Manning
QB Tom Brady
RB LaDanian Tomlinson
WR Marvin Harrison
WR Randy Moss
WR Terrell Owens
WR Tory Holt
TE Tony Gonzalez
OL Walter Jones
OL Alan Faneca
OL Steve Hutchinson
LB Ray Lewis
LB Junior Seau
LB Brian Urlacher
LB Derrick Brooks
DB Champ Bailey

just missing the cut...
OL Kevin Mawae
OL Orlando Pace
RB Shaun Alexander
RB Edgerrin James
WR Isaac Bruce
DL Jason Taylor
DB John Lynch
DB Brian Dawkins

CC.SD
07-31-2008, 07:47 AM
Tony Gonzalez (http://www.nfl.com/players/tonygonzalez/profile?id=GON587645)

Tom Brady (http://www.nfl.com/players/tombrady/profile?id=BRA371156)

Peyton Manning (http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonmanning/profile?id=MAN515097)

Marvin Harrison (http://www.nfl.com/players/marvinharrison/profile?id=HAR608874)

Ray Lewis (http://www.nfl.com/players/raylewis/profile?id=LEW562347)

LaDainian Tomlinson (http://www.nfl.com/players/ladainiantomlinson/profile?id=TOM683150)

Champ Bailey (http://www.nfl.com/players/champbailey/profile?id=BAI582194)

Brian Urlacher (http://www.nfl.com/players/brianurlacher/profile?id=URL059326)

Derrick Brooks (http://www.nfl.com/players/derrickbrooks/profile?id=BRO122327)

W. Jones (http://www.nfl.com/players/walterjones/profile?id=JON795619)

I'd swap Urlacher with Jason Taylor and that's my list, in no particular order.

How long until Gates is a lock? He's been tops at his position for 4 straight years pretty much, and Gonzo will pretty much just keep the TE records warm for him.

Splat
07-31-2008, 09:16 AM
How long until Gates is a lock? He's been tops at his position for 4 straight years pretty much, and Gonzo will pretty much just keep the TE records warm for him.

Slow down I think Gates has a chance to pass Gonzo in TD's but its no lock he passes him in yards and catches he is 480 catches and 5520 yards behind him.

T-RICH49
07-31-2008, 10:22 AM
OL Will Shields

uhhh should'nt Shields be in the already retired list?

CC.SD
07-31-2008, 10:33 AM
Slow down I think Gates has a chance to pass Gonzo in TD's but its no lock he passes him in yards and catches he is 480 catches and 5520 yards behind him.

Fair enough. I think it'll happen though; Gates has the dedication and its not like slowing down with age will drastically alter his game.

Geo
07-31-2008, 10:47 AM
Doesn't Tony G have the career trifecta for tight end records: receptions, yards, and touchdowns? I'm sure he has two of the three, at least. Also has the single-season record for most receptions by a tight end. He's been the best tight end of his era for a long period of time, he should be a slam dunk for the HOF.

Cribbs>Hester
07-31-2008, 10:59 AM
How do you guys have Issac Bruce going into the HoF, but Jason Taylor not going in to the HoF??? Jason Taylor is going to end his career with at least 140 sacks and he already owns the all time record for fumble recoveries for a touchdown.

Geo
07-31-2008, 11:04 AM
How much skill is involved in fumble recoveries? It's based on luck more than anything. Forced fumbles, now that is a completely different story.

Cribbs>Hester
07-31-2008, 11:28 AM
How much skill is involved in fumble recoveries? It's based on luck more than anything. Forced fumbles, now that is a completely different story.

Oh you mean like my boy Derrick Thomas who gets snubbed from the HoF every single year but also holds the record for most career forced fumbles at 45???

Returning 5 of those to the endzone envolves a lot of skill. Not to mention 8 total defensive touchdowns is the most all time by a defensive lineman. And are we forgetting Jason Taylor does already have 39 forced fumbles well on his way to breaking Derrick Thomas's all time record.

Next please.

It's all just a favoritism vote and it's garbage. Derrick Thomas was barely even a notch below Lawrence Taylor as a pass rusher yet he gets hosed year in and year out while LT is worshiped as the greatest defender ever.

Jason Taylor is one of the greatest pass rushers since DT and Kevin Greene. Michael Strahan, Simeon Rice, and Julius Peppers don't hold a candle to Taylor.

Splat
07-31-2008, 12:07 PM
Doesn't Tony G have the career trifecta for tight end records: receptions, yards, and touchdowns? I'm sure he has two of the three, at least. Also has the single-season record for most receptions by a tight end. He's been the best tight end of his era for a long period of time, he should be a slam dunk for the HOF.

Gonzo has both the Rec and TD's record for TE's and needs like 150 yards this season or some thing like that to get the yards record.

Geo
07-31-2008, 12:14 PM
It's only a matter of time before Derrick Thomas gets in, don't fret.

NY+Giants=NYG
07-31-2008, 12:19 PM
Does anyone fear the Hall of Fame, becoming the Hall of very good? And very good players start getting in instead of players that are ELITE?

Geo
07-31-2008, 12:23 PM
We're already at that point, unfortunately. Warren Moon is in and Art Monk will too this weekend, for example.

Cribbs>Hester
07-31-2008, 12:24 PM
Does anyone fear the Hall of Fame, becoming the Hall of very good? And very good players start getting in instead of players that are ELITE?


Its the fans who are wanting guys like Isaac Bruce to get in just because he compiled stats over a long period of time.

Jason Taylor and Derrick Thomas are both elite players. They deserve the HoF. When it's all said and done Taylor will own anything Strahan has ever done.

Cribbs>Hester
07-31-2008, 12:26 PM
It's only a matter of time before Derrick Thomas gets in, don't fret.

It is still unfair that he has gone this long without getting voted in. If his career wasn't cut short by death who knows what the record books would say about his TD's and Forced Fumbles or even Sacks. He would have far surpassed Strahan, LT and even Kevin Greene. Probably would have retired #3 on the all time list behind Smith and White.

GB12
07-31-2008, 12:28 PM
Does anyone fear the Hall of Fame, becoming the Hall of very good? And very good players start getting in instead of players that are ELITE?
Well I think the rule that at least 4 must be inducted every year should be removed. There aren't 4 great players that retire every year.

Excel Monkey
07-31-2008, 12:33 PM
Well I think the rule that at least 4 must be inducted every year should be removed. There aren't 4 great players that retire every year.

They don't need to induct 4 first-ballot players...

NY+Giants=NYG
07-31-2008, 12:33 PM
Its the fans who are wanting guys like Isaac Bruce to get in just because he compiled stats over a long period of time.

Jason Taylor and Derrick Thomas are both elite players. They deserve the HoF. When it's all said and done Taylor will own anything Strahan has ever done.

Strahan played the hardest DE spot in the game. Let's not forget Strahan played RE in the beggining and then moved to LE, which is harder.

It's two different DE spots, you can't compare the two positions. RE is alot different than playing LE. You can't compare the two positions, and thus the players can't be compared.

bearsfan_51
07-31-2008, 12:35 PM
Urlacher is going to make it. He's made the pro-bowl almost every year he's been in the league, he's been defensive player of the year, he made a Superbowl, he's the starting middle linebacker in a legacy of Butkus and Singletary.

Not to mention, in the last 10 years there have been Ray Lewis and Urlacher and everyone else at the middle linebacker position. If you're the best, or second best, at your position basically the entire time you've been in the league you're going to make the Hall of Fame.

I think Jason Taylor will probably make it too. I think he should anyway.

Geo
07-31-2008, 01:03 PM
Oh you mean like my boy Derrick Thomas who gets snubbed from the HoF every single year but also holds the record for most career forced fumbles at 45???
45 or 41 career forced fumbles (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/ThomDe01.htm)?

ChezPower4
07-31-2008, 01:06 PM
Urlacher is going to make it. He's made the pro-bowl almost every year he's been in the league, he's been defensive player of the year, he made a Superbowl, he's the starting middle linebacker in a legacy of Butkus and Singletary.

Not to mention, in the last 10 years there have been Ray Lewis and Urlacher and everyone else at the middle linebacker position. If you're the best, or second best, at your position basically the entire time you've been in the league you're going to make the Hall of Fame.

I think Jason Taylor will probably make it too. I think he should anyway.

I agree i think tha Urlacher is going to make it in to the Hall of Fame no problem. He's been outstaing his whole career and is an all-pro. Not to mention how good he is at playing his MLB spot in the cover 2 at his size is just unreal. He'll be a first ballot HOF

Excel Monkey
07-31-2008, 01:09 PM
I agree i think tha Urlacher is going to make it in to the Hall of Fame no problem. He's been outstaing his whole career and is an all-pro. Not to mention how good he is at playing his MLB spot in the cover 2 at his size is just unreal. He'll be a first ballot HOF

I highly doubt Urlacher is a first-ballot HOFer unless he does some spectacular things the next few years.

Cribbs>Hester
07-31-2008, 01:18 PM
45 or 41 career forced fumbles (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/ThomDe01.htm)?

Read about half-way down the page:

http://www.kcchiefs.com/hall_of_fame/derrick_thomas/

45

703SKINS202
07-31-2008, 01:43 PM
We're already at that point, unfortunately. Warren Moon is in and Art Monk will too this weekend, for example.

Art Monk retired as the all time receptions leader on a run heavy team in a run era. He was also a big key in the skins golden era where they won 3 superbowls. I know I have some bias as a skins fan but he deserves to be in the hall.

eaglesalltheway
07-31-2008, 02:35 PM
Just a question here, its sort of selfish but I think it is worth asking. Does Brian Dawkins get in the HOF? As an Eagles fan I say yes, but it is hard for me to know becuase I really don't know other people's perspective. He is a year or two from retirement, does he make it? Also, how bout Brian Westbrook? Right now it is hard to say, but if he does something like he did last year in his next two years, I think he could be deserving of consideration once his time comes around.

L-Train79
07-31-2008, 02:44 PM
Antonio Gates doesn't belong in the discussion yet. And Urlacher is a maybe for me right now. He isn't ahead of Lewis. And you can't let him in because he is a Bears linebacker. Not a chance does Shaun Alexander belong there either.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-31-2008, 02:50 PM
Dawkins will probably get pretty damn close. I would honestly induct him before John Lynch, but I'm not sure either get in.

I also should have added Alan Faneca and probably Steve Hutchinson to my original list.

ChezPower4
07-31-2008, 03:15 PM
I highly doubt Urlacher is a first-ballot HOFer unless he does some spectacular things the next few years.

I don't see what else he would need to do. He is one of the best defensive players of this era. You have to be the best player of all time at your postion to be a first ballot HOFer.

illmatic74
07-31-2008, 03:15 PM
Issac Bruce has no chance. He was never the best at his position and half of his career he was a #2. Art Monk and Moon shouldn't be in they just compiled stats over years.

Excel Monkey
07-31-2008, 03:17 PM
I don't see what else he would need to do. He is one of the best defensive players of this era. You have to be the best player of all time at your postion to be a first ballot HOFer.

Huh? Your post contradicts itself.

ChezPower4
07-31-2008, 03:21 PM
Huh? Your post contradicts itself.

Sorry typo ment to say "you don't have to the best player at your position in history to be a first ballot HOFer"

Excel Monkey
07-31-2008, 03:25 PM
Sorry typo ment to say "you don't have to the best player at your position in history to be a first ballot HOFer"

Well you definitely have to be an iconic figure of your era. Urlacher is far from that. Lewis has a chance at first ballot, but Urlacher isn't even guaranteed a spot in the Hall period, let alone first ballot.

You're telling me Urlacher belongs on this list?

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/Eligibility.jsp

ChezPower4
07-31-2008, 03:32 PM
Well you definitely have to be an iconic figure of your era. Urlacher is far from that. Lewis has a chance at first ballot, but Urlacher isn't even guaranteed a spot in the Hall period, let alone first ballot.

You're telling me Urlacher belongs on this list?

http://www.profootballhof.com/history/Eligibility.jsp

Yes so does Ray Lewis

Cribbs>Hester
07-31-2008, 03:32 PM
If Derrick Thomas hasn't gotten in after this long then Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Junior Seau and Derrick Brooks should never ever ever be considered for a 1st ballot inductee.

ChezPower4
07-31-2008, 04:01 PM
If Derrick Thomas hasn't gotten in after this long then Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, Junior Seau and Derrick Brooks should never ever ever be considered for a 1st ballot inductee.

Joe Greene, Lawrence Taylor, Mike Singletary, Reggie White are all two time winners of Defensive player of the year(Taylor won it 3 times) and they are all first ballot HOFers. Bruce Smith is also a two time winner along with Ray Lewis. I beleive that percident is set amoung the voters, Bruce Smith will get voted in next year which will be his first year of eligibility and based on those five players it's pretty safe to say that Ray Lewis will be a first ballot HOFer as well.

Geo
07-31-2008, 04:09 PM
Ray Lewis led his team to a championship. He runs his mouth and is a beyond delusional nutjob, but at his prime, he's probably as good as any middle linebacker in the history of the league.

Cribbs>Hester
07-31-2008, 04:17 PM
Ray Lewis led his team to a championship. He runs his mouth and is a beyond delusional nutjob, but at his prime, he's probably as good as any middle linebacker in the history of the league.

Bill George, Ray Nitschke, Dick Butkus, Mike Singeltary, Jack Lambert >>> Ray Lewis. Ray Lewis belongs with the Joe Schmidt's and Sam Huff's of this world. Lambert is borderling 1st or 2nd group, but 4 rings means he stays in group 1.

ChezPower4
08-01-2008, 10:18 AM
Bill George, Ray Nitschke, Dick Butkus, Mike Singeltary, Jack Lambert >>> Ray Lewis.

Yea that sounds right, does anyone else see a problem with this?

bearsfan_51
08-01-2008, 10:23 AM
It's funny how all of the people that vastly overrate Derrick Thomas are the people that are too young to actually see him play.

He was a one-trick pony. He'll make it in eventually I'm sure, but saying he's better than Lewis or Seau is ******* ******** and completely ruins anything you ever have to say again.

bearsfan_51
08-01-2008, 10:24 AM
Ray Lewis led his team to a championship. He runs his mouth and is a beyond delusional nutjob, but at his prime, he's probably as good as any middle linebacker in the history of the league.

Geo no........say it ain't so......I mean I could pass off the "Tom Brady isn't that good" argument as the product of you being a Colts fan. But Ray Lewis the best middle linebacker of all time? No no no no no no no......

Gay Ork Wang
08-01-2008, 10:25 AM
Geo no........say it ain't so......I mean I could pass off the "Tom Brady isn't that good" argument as the product of you being a Colts fan. But Ray Lewis the best middle linebacker of all time? No no no no no no no......
i love that ur back

scottyboy
08-01-2008, 10:26 AM
Did I really read that Jason Taylor will own anything that Strahan did? wow...just wow. Strahan is a top 5 DE of all time, and no, Taylor is not top 5, in case you that...

bearsfan_51
08-01-2008, 10:27 AM
Scotty i think you need some more **** in your sig.

scottyboy
08-01-2008, 10:32 AM
Scotty i think you need some more **** in your sig.

Really? Me too. I was thinking about throwing a couple more sig quotes and some glitter and perhaps a picture of a pony, and Brian Leonard shirtless...

but perhaps it is time to edit some of that **** out...

ChezPower4
08-01-2008, 10:42 AM
Geo no........say it ain't so......I mean I could pass off the "Tom Brady isn't that good" argument as the product of you being a Colts fan. But Ray Lewis the best middle linebacker of all time? No no no no no no no......

I agree not the best of time but he is right up there with the best

Cribbs>Hester
08-01-2008, 12:19 PM
Did I really read that Jason Taylor will own anything that Strahan did? wow...just wow. Strahan is a top 5 DE of all time, and no, Taylor is not top 5, in case you that...

Reggie White
Deacon Jones
Bruce Smith
Gino Marchetti
Howie Long
Jack Youngblood

I'm pretty sure I'd take all those guys before Strahan anyday. Michael Strahan should not even be in the same book as these players let alone in the same discussion.


Jason Taylor > Michael Strahan anyday of the week. You're just another typical NFC East homer.

Cribbs>Hester
08-01-2008, 12:26 PM
It's funny how all of the people that vastly overrate Derrick Thomas are the people that are too young to actually see him play.

He was a one-trick pony. He'll make it in eventually I'm sure, but saying he's better than Lewis or Seau is ******* ******** and completely ruins anything you ever have to say again.


I'm probably older than you chief. The players nowadays are pampered little brats who couldn't tough it out with the big dogs of yesterday. I don't know about you, but I'm almost possitive most people on boards like these are 26 or under. I'm in the 36 or over category(37). How many do you really have on this site...maybe 5. I may have missed out on guys like Brown, Graham, Baugh and others, but I've seen enough greats to know one when I see one and Michael Strahan falls just short of greatness while Derrick Thomas was just on the line of greatness.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-01-2008, 12:30 PM
Reggie White
Deacon Jones
Bruce Smith
Gino Marchetti
Howie Long
Jack Youngblood

I'm pretty sure I'd take all those guys before Strahan anyday. Michael Strahan should not even be in the same book as these players let alone in the same discussion.


Jason Taylor > Michael Strahan anyday of the week. You're just another typical NFC East homer.


Again RE and LE are two different positions. Comparing two different people at two different positions is stupid.

regoob2
08-01-2008, 12:31 PM
Reggie White
Deacon Jones
Bruce Smith
Gino Marchetti
Howie Long
Jack Youngblood

I'm pretty sure I'd take all those guys before Strahan anyday. Michael Strahan should not even be in the same book as these players let alone in the same discussion.


Jason Taylor > Michael Strahan anyday of the week. You're just another typical NFC East homer.The guy whos name is cribbs over hester is calling someone a homer thats comical.

L O V E
08-01-2008, 12:32 PM
Again RE and LE are two different positions. Comparing two different people at two different positions is stupid.

Did Ray Lewis play the same position as Butkus?

No, because the game has changed and MLBs are asked to do much different things.

You need to draw the line somewhere or comparing players is impossible. LDE and RDE are similar enough that you can definitely compare players that play the positions. After all, guys transition between these positions all the time and often don't miss a beat.

ChezPower4
08-01-2008, 12:52 PM
I'm probably older than you chief. The players nowadays are pampered little brats who couldn't tough it out with the big dogs of yesterday. I don't know about you, but I'm almost possitive most people on boards like these are 26 or under. I'm in the 36 or over category(37). How many do you really have on this site...maybe 5. I may have missed out on guys like Brown, Graham, Baugh and others, but I've seen enough greats to know one when I see one and Michael Strahan falls just short of greatness while Derrick Thomas was just on the line of greatness.

Strahan is a better player than Thomas was so if Thomas was flirting with greatness by your logic Strahan should be considered a great player

bearsfan_51
08-01-2008, 01:31 PM
I'm probably older than you chief. The players nowadays are pampered little brats who couldn't tough it out with the big dogs of yesterday. I don't know about you, but I'm almost possitive most people on boards like these are 26 or under. I'm in the 36 or over category(37). How many do you really have on this site...maybe 5. I may have missed out on guys like Brown, Graham, Baugh and others, but I've seen enough greats to know one when I see one and Michael Strahan falls just short of greatness while Derrick Thomas was just on the line of greatness.
Don't call me chief.

The players of today would beat the crap out of the "big dogs" of yesterday. Athleticism and weight training (and probably pharmaceutical advancements) make them significantly better athletes.

I'm not making a case that a player from the 90's (which isn't exactly yesteryear) needs to compete with a player of today. Hall of Fame comitees (and I should know because I interned for the HOF in their history department) judge players on how they played in their time.

I'll say it again, Thomas was a one trick pony. He'll make it, but it's not the huge snub that some internet wonks think it is.



And yes, your name is ******* ridiculous.

Geo
08-01-2008, 01:36 PM
Geo no........say it ain't so......I mean I could pass off the "Tom Brady isn't that good" argument as the product of you being a Colts fan. But Ray Lewis the best middle linebacker of all time? No no no no no no no......
Whoa, I definitely wouldn't say Ray Lewis is the best middle linebacker of all time. Lewis has been overrated imo. I was just saying his prime, or maybe I should term it his peak, is probably up there with the greats. And that when he finishes, having led the Ravens to a title between years of strong teams, he'll end up in the Hall.

I wouldn't even term Lewis the best linebacker of his era, off the top of my head I've got Derrick Brooks and Brian Urlacher already ahead of him. I don't like freelance artist Seau, but he'll probably end up in the Hall.

Zach Thomas, might get considered for a few years but ultimately I don't think gets in. Am I forgetting anyone?

L O V E
08-01-2008, 01:38 PM
Whoa, I definitely wouldn't say Ray Lewis is the best middle linebacker of all time. Lewis has been overrated imo. I was just saying his prime, or maybe I should term it his peak, is probably up there with the greats. And that when he finishes, having led the Ravens to a title between years of strong teams, he'll end up in the Hall.

I wouldn't even term Lewis the best linebacker of his era, off the top of my head I've got Derrick Brooks and Brian Urlacher already ahead of him. I don't like freelance artist Seau, but he'll probably end up in the Hall.

I think the argument could be made that Ray Lewis had the best season ever as a MLB when the Ravens won the Super Bowl in 2000. Obviously it's impossible to compare and come up with a conclusive answer, but that season is up there.

I could maybe see Derrick Brooks above Lewis but there's no way Urlacher has Lewis beaten as of now.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-01-2008, 01:41 PM
Did Ray Lewis play the same position as Butkus?

No, because the game has changed and MLBs are asked to do much different things.

You need to draw the line somewhere or comparing players is impossible. LDE and RDE are similar enough that you can definitely compare players that play the positions. After all, guys transition between these positions all the time and often don't miss a beat.

I disagree. One is strong side the other is weakside. Ask anyone who coaches on the defensive side, or played DE at a high level be it pro or college player. Both are different positions. I coach on the offensive side of the ball so don't really pay attention to defense. But usually the offense is strong side is our right side, which is the offensive's left. So LE's have to go against alot more to get sacks and stop the run. Comparing players from two different positions makes no sense again.

BBD might be able to explain it better, he played on the defensive side of the ball in college.

L O V E
08-01-2008, 01:46 PM
I disagree. One is strong side the other is weakside. Ask anyone who coaches on the defensive side, or played DE at a high level be it pro or college player. Both are different positions. I coach on the offensive side of the ball so don't really pay attention to defense. But usually the offense is strong side is our right side, which is the offensive's left. So LE's have to go against alot more to get sacks and stop the run. Comparing players from two different positions makes no sense again.

BBD might be able to explain it better, he played on the defensive side of the ball in college.

Again, how can you compare a MLB from today's game to a MLB from 30 years ago? The position is completely different.

How can you compare LB like Lawrence Taylor to a LB from 30 years ago? The position is completely different.

The point is that no two players are in identical situations and comparing defensive ends who play opposite sides of the field is not a stretch in terms of comparing what they do on the field.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-01-2008, 01:58 PM
Again, how can you compare a MLB from today's game to a MLB from 30 years ago? The position is completely different.

How can you compare LB like Lawrence Taylor to a LB from 30 years ago? The position is completely different.

The point is that no two players are in identical situations and comparing defensive ends who play opposite sides of the field is not a stretch in terms of comparing what they do on the field.

But I am not comparing the same position to different era. I don't care about that. I am just responding to him saying JT>>> Michael Strahan. That's what I am trying to explain to him. I could careless about Lewis, and LT compared to their peers in todays game.

I am comparing two guys from basically the same era, playing different spots on the line. And my point is that it's different, and has nothing to do with era, but rather just the makeups of football. Just like traditionally safties have different keys and responsibilities, and different LBs, WIll and SAm have different ones too. Of course system can bridge that gap and make it similar or even more different.

Strahan at LE, traditionally has more to overcome then a RE does. There is a reason why a RE has to be more athletic, because he is going up against a more athletic tackle position. RTs tend to be slower, but bigger, and stronger, which what LEs traditionally are. They have to be because they are on the strong side, and have to constantly go up against TEs, and bigger tackles. ON top of that they have to produce by getting sacks, and stopping the run which usually is having the TE and RT combo you.

Another thing is weight. JT is 6'6 255. That is damn light for a LE, if he was a LE. Now way in hell you'd be successful inthe NFL playing LE at that weight! You'd get your jock handed to you. Strahan always played at around 275 from what I remember, even more, and then after his injury dropped his weight to 6'5 255. His sacks went down, but he still managed to stop the run, which shows that he was the last of his kind when it came to technique. I believe CBS had an article about that. Jared Allen was mentioned in it too.

Again if you put JT at 6'6 255 at LE for all his career, I highly doubt he breaks out like he has at RE.

CC.SD
08-01-2008, 03:13 PM
But I am not comparing the same position to different era. I don't care about that. I am just responding to him saying JT>>> Michael Strahan. That's what I am trying to explain to him. I could careless about Lewis, and LT compared to their peers in todays game.

I am comparing two guys from basically the same era, playing different spots on the line. And my point is that it's different, and has nothing to do with era, but rather just the makeups of football. Just like traditionally safties have different keys and responsibilities, and different LBs, WIll and SAm have different ones too. Of course system can bridge that gap and make it similar or even more different.

Strahan at LE, traditionally has more to overcome then a RE does. There is a reason why a RE has to be more athletic, because he is going up against a more athletic tackle position. RTs tend to be slower, but bigger, and stronger, which what LEs traditionally are. They have to be because they are on the strong side, and have to constantly go up against TEs, and bigger tackles. ON top of that they have to produce by getting sacks, and stopping the run which usually is having the TE and RT combo you.

Another thing is weight. JT is 6'6 255. That is damn light for a LE, if he was a LE. Now way in hell you'd be successful inthe NFL playing LE at that weight! You'd get your jock handed to you. Strahan always played at around 275 from what I remember, even more, and then after his injury dropped his weight to 6'5 255. His sacks went down, but he still managed to stop the run, which shows that he was the last of his kind when it came to technique. I believe CBS had an article about that. Jared Allen was mentioned in it too.

Again if you put JT at 6'6 255 at LE for all his career, I highly doubt he breaks out like he has at RE.


I feel like your post could have said the same thing in one paragraph, but I agree on every point.

The facts are though, that Jason has been playing RE and has put up HoF numbers and been the leader of his D, plus he's got a DPoY award that he stole from Champ. It won't surprise me at all if he gets into Canton.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-01-2008, 04:02 PM
I feel like your post could have said the same thing in one paragraph, but I agree on every point.

The facts are though, that Jason has been playing RE and has put up HoF numbers and been the leader of his D, plus he's got a DPoY award that he stole from Champ. It won't surprise me at all if he gets into Canton.

Yeah he is a damn good player, don't get me wrong. I think he will be a hall of famer, but this whole thing comparing him to strahan at LE, and busting all his records seems off. Now if JT plays long enough I think it's possible, but to me it's two different positions to compare the two. And he came out of nowhere saying that. My original question was more general, like how do we make sure the hall of fame stays the hall of fame vs the hall of very, very good?

scottyboy
08-01-2008, 04:23 PM
Reggie White
Deacon Jones
Bruce Smith
Gino Marchetti
Howie Long
Jack Youngblood

I'm pretty sure I'd take all those guys before Strahan anyday. Michael Strahan should not even be in the same book as these players let alone in the same discussion.


Jason Taylor > Michael Strahan anyday of the week. You're just another typical NFC East homer.

Taylor plays in the NFC East, so obviously, I'm an NFC East homer for choosing Strahan... that makes....sense?

no, it doesn't. at all

Oh, and Taylor's played RE and 3-4 OLB. MUCH different, and easier really than LE. What Strahan did at LE is remarkable. Let's now forget the fact he has the single season record(even if you wanna throw away the Favre sack, has Taylor come that close?) 850+ tackles, AND over 140 sacks.

oh and his super bowl ring don't hurt either. Other than like INT's and like coverage skills, I fail to see where Taylor is better than Strahan... please, enlighten me oh user with a handle that is a total false statement

oh, and Marchetti and Youngblood ARE debateable with Strahan. I'd put Strahan 5th after the other 3 and Youngblood

CC.SD
08-01-2008, 04:28 PM
Yeah he is a damn good player, don't get me wrong. I think he will be a hall of famer, but this whole thing comparing him to strahan at LE, and busting all his records seems off. Now if JT plays long enough I think it's possible, but to me it's two different positions to compare the two. And he came out of nowhere saying that. My original question was more general, like how do we make sure the hall of fame stays the hall of fame vs the hall of very, very good?

It's an impossible situation, that'll never be quite perfect. You have Lynn Swann in the hall, but Art Monk took foreeeeeever to make it. Justice? Not quite.

You can't base it entirely around championships, because those are the very epitome of team accomplishments. Since it's entirely decided by the media, HoF selections pretty much just have to be treated as reflections of the modern era's priorities. Well, that and the NO BRAINERS. The era we're currently in absolutely loves it some sacks, and Jason Taylor has been a sack machine for a long time, so when the time comes, I doubt they turn him away.

Turtlepower
08-01-2008, 04:32 PM
It's an impossible situation, that'll never be quite perfect. You have Lynn Swann in the hall, but Art Monk took foreeeeeever to make it. Justice? Not quite.

Cris Carter is much better than both and couldn't get in. That is the true shame.

CC.SD
08-01-2008, 04:47 PM
Cris Carter is much better than both and couldn't get in. That is the true shame.

Yeah, I've expressed my absolute disbelief that Cris Carter wasn't first ballot elsewhere.

flave1969
08-01-2008, 05:29 PM
Cris Carter is much better than both and couldn't get in. That is the true shame.

How much did you see of Swann up close and personal, the same with Monk. How the hell do you know Carter was much better than both?

What are you basing that assumption on? Stats. It has too be because it certainly was not with your own eyes.

I saw every Monk game for from 1983 until he retired , I cant say the same for Carter but I know the difference between the two is no way near what you say it is.

As for getting in the Hall, do a little research and you will see how badly receivers struggle to get in the Hall, its worse for lineman but outside of Steve Largent no receiver has gone in first ballot in 30 years.

The 80's era is now represented by just three receivers Largent, Lofton and now Monk all retired with one of the receiving records they all deserved it. The 80's had a lot of good receivers as did the 70's many of whom will not see the light of day. The difference between those guys and the Hall of Famers shows why they were elite, they were elite in their time.

Gay Ork Wang
08-01-2008, 05:40 PM
http://www.nfl.com/halloffame/story?id=09000d5d8099cc39&template=with-video&confirm=true

CC.SD
08-01-2008, 06:39 PM
Here's a name that is inexplicably not in the hall: Don Coryell. Added so much to the game and aerial attacks, and captained some really great teams. He's getting held back by the fact that he's in the College Hall of Fame too. Plus no Super Bowl. Gimme a break though.

kmartin575
08-01-2008, 10:46 PM
I'd swap Urlacher with Jason Taylor and that's my list, in no particular order.

How long until Gates is a lock? He's been tops at his position for 4 straight years pretty much, and Gonzo will pretty much just keep the TE records warm for him.

Kind of hard to say that when Gonzo is about 2 or 3 games away from holding the record in yards, receptions, and touchdowns and he is still playing at least 2 more seasons, maybe more.

yo123
08-02-2008, 12:18 AM
Cris Carter is much better than both and couldn't get in. That is the true shame.



Yeah I thought he was a lock. I was in absolute shock when I didn't see his name on the list. He's the third best receiver of all time, yet he doesn't deserve to get in on the first ballot?

bearsfan_51
08-10-2008, 08:39 PM
Yeah I thought he was a lock. I was in absolute shock when I didn't see his name on the list. He's the third best receiver of all time, yet he doesn't deserve to get in on the first ballot?
Statistically.

You really can't compare the stats of a guy like Carter to a guy like Don Hutson. I do agree that Carter deserves it based on stats alone though.

Dam8610
08-10-2008, 08:53 PM
For people debating on Owens, he will get in. It appears increasingly likely that he, Moss, and Tomlinson will form up the #3, #4, and #5 of the all time touchdown list by the time they call it quits. Tomlinson might even bump Emmitt Smith at #2.

Of the guys who have or may yet retire before this season kicks off...

DL Michael Strahan
DL Warren Sapp
OL Jonathan Ogden
OL Larry Allen

Of the guys a year or more away from retiring...

QB Brett Favre
QB Peyton Manning
QB Tom Brady
RB LaDanian Tomlinson
WR Marvin Harrison
WR Randy Moss
WR Terrell Owens
WR Isaac Bruce
TE Tony Gonzalez
OL Walter Jones
OL Alan Faneca
OL Steve Hutchinson
LB Ray Lewis
LB Junior Seau
LB Brian Urlacher
LB Derrick Brooks
DB Champ Bailey

just missing the cut...
OL Kevin Mawae
OL Orlando Pace
RB Shaun Alexander
RB Edgerrin James
DL Jason Taylor
DB John Lynch


How does Edgerrin James miss the cut, but Issac Bruce make it? Bruce has had 3-4 great seasons as a WR, and a few good seasons, James has had at least 5 seasons as one of the NFL's elite RBs, and he's one of the few workhorse backs left in the NFL. I'm not really objecting to the disclusion of James at this point (though in 2-3 years, that may change), my main issue is Bruce. He's not a HOFer IMO.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-12-2008, 04:09 PM
How does Edgerrin James miss the cut, but Issac Bruce make it? Bruce has had 3-4 great seasons as a WR, and a few good seasons, James has had at least 5 seasons as one of the NFL's elite RBs, and he's one of the few workhorse backs left in the NFL. I'm not really objecting to the disclusion of James at this point (though in 2-3 years, that may change), my main issue is Bruce. He's not a HOFer IMO.

You're absolutely right. It appears that I wrote in Bruce's name instead of Holt's, who is absent from that list. I don't consider Bruce or Edge a HOF'er, but I do consider Holt one. Thanks for pointing that out, I will edit the post.

yourfavestoner
08-12-2008, 05:45 PM
How much did you see of Swann up close and personal, the same with Monk. How the hell do you know Carter was much better than both?

What are you basing that assumption on? Stats. It has too be because it certainly was not with your own eyes.

I saw every Monk game for from 1983 until he retired , I cant say the same for Carter but I know the difference between the two is no way near what you say it is.

As for getting in the Hall, do a little research and you will see how badly receivers struggle to get in the Hall, its worse for lineman but outside of Steve Largent no receiver has gone in first ballot in 30 years.

The 80's era is now represented by just three receivers Largent, Lofton and now Monk all retired with one of the receiving records they all deserved it. The 80's had a lot of good receivers as did the 70's many of whom will not see the light of day. The difference between those guys and the Hall of Famers shows why they were elite, they were elite in their time.

Exactly. And with this new era of wide open offenses and ridiculous statistics, it's going to be even harder for receivers to get into the Hall.

One thing that people overlook (especially when it comes to the skill position guys) when it comes to voting criteria is postseason performance. accomplishments. Meaning, did this guy make his biggest plays and have defining moments against the best competition and on the biggest stages. Many players have historically been great regular season performers and get shut down once they start playing the games that really matter.

It took so long for Monk to get in because in three Superbowl appearances, he caught 9 passes for 179 yards and 0 touchdowns. Swann, on the other hand, had 16 catches for 462 yards and 3 touchdowns in four Superbowl appearances.

Shane P. Hallam
08-12-2008, 05:55 PM
For people debating on Owens, he will get in. It appears increasingly likely that he, Moss, and Tomlinson will form up the #3, #4, and #5 of the all time touchdown list by the time they call it quits. Tomlinson might even bump Emmitt Smith at #2.

Of the guys who have or may yet retire before this season kicks off...

DL Michael Strahan
DL Warren Sapp
OL Jonathan Ogden
OL Larry Allen

Of the guys a year or more away from retiring...

QB Brett Favre
QB Peyton Manning
QB Tom Brady
RB LaDanian Tomlinson
WR Marvin Harrison
WR Randy Moss
WR Terrell Owens
WR Tory Holt
TE Tony Gonzalez
OL Walter Jones
OL Alan Faneca
OL Steve Hutchinson
LB Ray Lewis
LB Junior Seau
LB Brian Urlacher
LB Derrick Brooks
DB Champ Bailey

just missing the cut...
OL Kevin Mawae
OL Orlando Pace
RB Shaun Alexander
RB Edgerrin James
WR Isaac Bruce
DL Jason Taylor
DB John Lynch
DB Brian Dawkins


My only chances are that Edge and Pace will eventually make it. I do think Holt could be out of luck, as well as TO. May at least take them awhile.

Shiver
08-12-2008, 05:59 PM
Unfortunately the statistical accumulators are getting in, and at an ever growing pace. Just wait until Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis get in. No offense to either player, they had nice careers, but great? I do not think so.

I think that a lot of the offensive lineman in these lists are highly unlikely: Hutchinson, Faneca, Jones. If you are going to get snubbed you are probably a lineman or even a linebacker. Of the latter, I think it is entirely possible that Derrick Brooks is overlooked.

Geo
08-12-2008, 06:57 PM
No to Jerome Bettis, but Curtis Martin should be considered imo. Martin peppered an extended and continuous top-flight career (first ten years of his career at the runningback position) with a few superstar years. Unlike Marshall Faulk, Martin stayed in the AFC East and - while not flashy, sure - he played great up until his last season (2005).

Marshall Faulk is an easier candidate to consider though, he played well in Indy but his superstar years in St. Louis are so high (MVPs) and grouped together (with one championship and another Super Bowl appearance), he'll get in for sure.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-12-2008, 08:42 PM
I think that a lot of the offensive lineman in these lists are highly unlikely: Hutchinson, Faneca, Jones. If you are going to get snubbed you are probably a lineman or even a linebacker. Of the latter, I think it is entirely possible that Derrick Brooks is overlooked.

With those three linemen you mentioned, it's all about how they finish. Faneca has the resume, but how he plays in New York (and, quite honestly, how well the Jets do) will play major factors. Jones faltered last year, but if he can right the ship I think he gets in. Between the older group of top tackles (Pace, Ogden) and the younger guys out there, he's the only guy in my estimation who will get serious consideration. A thin field helps you stand out. As for Hutchinson, the quality is there and he made history by being the guy who broke out the spending spree for interior linemen (counts for more than some think), but he's already thirty and the resume isn't quite there.

yourfavestoner
08-12-2008, 09:02 PM
Unfortunately the statistical accumulators are getting in, and at an ever growing pace. Just wait until Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis get in. No offense to either player, they had nice careers, but great? I do not think so.

I think that a lot of the offensive lineman in these lists are highly unlikely: Hutchinson, Faneca, Jones. If you are going to get snubbed you are probably a lineman or even a linebacker. Of the latter, I think it is entirely possible that Derrick Brooks is overlooked.

Brooks won't get overlooked. I actually think he'll make it in before Sapp, even though Sapp was the better and more dominant player. It'll be a shame, though, if the voters induct John Lynch or Ronde Barber and leave either one of those guys out, because there probably won't be more than two guys inducted from that Buc defense.

Geo
08-12-2008, 09:50 PM
Sapp and Brooks will likely be the first of the four to consideration, Sapp definitely will in any case, and hopefully they'll get in.

Matthew Jones
08-17-2008, 01:55 PM
QB: Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Peyton Manning
RB: Shaun Alexander (maybe), LaDainian Tomlinson
WR: Isaac Bruce, Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens
TE: Tony Gonzalez, Todd Heap (maybe)
OL: Willie Anderson, Alan Faneca, Steve Hutchinson (maybe), Walter Jones, Olin Kreutz, Kevin Mawae, Orlando Pace
K: Adam Vinatieri

DE: Dwight Freeney (maybe), Simeon Rice, Jason Taylor
DT: Casey Hampton (maybe), Pat Williams (maybe)
LB: Derrick Brooks, Keith Bulluck, Ray Lewis, Junior Seau, Zach Thomas, Brian Urlacher
DB: Champ Bailey, Ronde Barber (maybe), Brian Dawkins, Rodney Harrison, Ty Law, John Lynch, Ed Reed, Darren Sharper (maybe)

Just retired: Jonathan Ogden, Warren Sapp, Michael Strahan

Eaglez.Fan
08-17-2008, 02:05 PM
Brian Dawkins should be on most of you guys' lists. I know Dawk has lost a step but he was no doubt the best safety in the league for a good 2-3 years. As far as I know the voters put a lot into that, they say if your ever the best player in the league at your position you should get in.

And Raven, Todd Heap has zero chance unless he turns into Jesus in the next couple years. And I doubt Alexander gets in either.

XxXdragonXxX
08-17-2008, 02:53 PM
I think that a lot of the offensive lineman in these lists are highly unlikely: Hutchinson, Faneca, Jones.

I know alot of people here think Pace and Ogden are better than Jones, but the guys that vote for the HOF will put him in first ballot without a doubt. The fact that he was a first team AP All-Pro last year even though he didn't have the greatest season last year just goes to show what the media thinks of him. I mean, seriously, before the 06 season The Sporting News had him as the #1 player in the NFL, regardless of position.

Ogden and Jones make it first ballot, Pace will have to wait.

Ravens1991
08-18-2008, 11:32 AM
does Matt Stover have a snowball shot in hell? He is 3rd most accurate and 4th all time scorer

NY+Giants=NYG
08-18-2008, 11:35 AM
So who retired this year now?

Odgen
Strahan
Sapp
McNair

Anyone else I am missing?

Ravens1991
08-18-2008, 11:37 AM
I doubt McNair makes it, he has only 2 pro bowls, and no ring. If he got a ring then maybe.

keylime_5
08-18-2008, 11:56 AM
QB: Tom Brady, Brett Favre, Peyton Manning
RB: Shaun Alexander (maybe), LaDainian Tomlinson
WR: Isaac Bruce, Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens
TE: Tony Gonzalez, Todd Heap (maybe)
OL: Willie Anderson, Alan Faneca, Steve Hutchinson (maybe), Walter Jones, Olin Kreutz, Kevin Mawae, Orlando Pace
K: Adam Vinatieri

DE: Dwight Freeney (maybe), Simeon Rice, Jason Taylor
DT: Casey Hampton (maybe), Pat Williams (maybe)
LB: Derrick Brooks, Keith Bulluck, Ray Lewis, Junior Seau, Zach Thomas, Brian Urlacher
DB: Champ Bailey, Ronde Barber (maybe), Brian Dawkins, Rodney Harrison, Ty Law, John Lynch, Ed Reed, Darren Sharper (maybe)

Just retired: Jonathan Ogden, Warren Sapp, Michael Strahan

Bullock won't make it. Heap won't, Anderson probably won't but he has a chance, we'll see on Vinatieri - kickers hardly ever get considered and I'm thinking he'll get left out. Pace, Mawae, and Kreutz are all borderline. I hope Pace makes it, he was the best college OT there ever was. Hampton and Big Pat probably won't make it either considering the other DTs who will in their time.

Shaun Alexander probably won't make it either. I think Tomlinson and Curtis Martin make it at RB.

Gay Ork Wang
08-18-2008, 11:59 AM
So who retired this year now?

Odgen
Strahan
Sapp
McNair

Anyone else I am missing?
Willie Shields?

Geo
08-18-2008, 12:13 PM
does Matt Stover have a snowball shot in hell? He is 3rd most accurate and 4th all time scorer
Adam Vinatieri is a lock for the Hall imo, but that's it for kickers.

CC.SD
08-18-2008, 12:58 PM
So who retired this year now?

Odgen
Strahan
Sapp
McNair

Anyone else I am missing?

Probably Seau, finally.

illmatic74
08-18-2008, 01:06 PM
Adam Vinatieri is a lock for the Hall imo, but that's it for kickers.
No kicker should be in the hall.

Gay Ork Wang
08-18-2008, 01:06 PM
No kicker should be in the hall.
why not......

Dam8610
08-18-2008, 01:28 PM
I doubt McNair makes it, he has only 2 pro bowls, and no ring. If he got a ring then maybe.

This statement shows a huge flaw in the system.

Yung Flippa
08-18-2008, 01:34 PM
Troy Smith, Plain and Simple. 1st Ballot.

Ravens1991
08-18-2008, 01:40 PM
This statement shows a huge flaw in the system.

what are you talking about?

scottyboy
08-18-2008, 01:43 PM
what are you talking about?

players shouldn't be decided to go in the hall or not based on pro bowls and rings. If so, you'd have Roy Williams(Dal) and like Matt Light in the Hall

Ravens1991
08-18-2008, 01:49 PM
I see, but either way I still dont think McNair gets in, it is a part of the system, a players pro bowl births.

yourfavestoner
08-18-2008, 01:55 PM
does Matt Stover have a snowball shot in hell? He is 3rd most accurate and 4th all time scorer

Neither Stover nor McNair have a shot in hell of making it. McNair was very good, but definitely not HoF worthy. And Stover was a kicker for gods sakes. Vinitieri's not even gonna make it to the HoF.

Ravens1991
08-18-2008, 01:59 PM
YFS, if McNair picked up a ring do you think he would be in?

josh07039
08-18-2008, 02:05 PM
I know I'm a bit biased, but I think Curtis Martin has to get in. Not only did he have remarkable longevity which has to be considered a factor in induction, but he was also a great rb almost every year until the end.Not only did he break 1000yds every year, he broke it handily every year except 02. Winning the rushing title at 31 also has to come into play. Being that old and still being capable of doing that is such a huge accomplishment.

Alot of people seem to think of him as an above average rb that just lasted for so long. Firsly, even if that were the case, the career stats that he accumulated should at least have him in consideration. He was a 4.0 yds a carry , over 1000 a year back that could be counted on ever game, every year. He should be a no brainer.

Ravens1991
08-18-2008, 02:16 PM
I think he will.

Will Bettis be a HOF?

Geo
08-18-2008, 03:22 PM
As I mentioned earlier, I would seriously consider Curtis Martin, Jerome Bettis not so much. I think Edge is a Hall of Fame back and he'll have the career numbers to make up for not having a ring (which isn't his fault). No to Priest Holmes, I'd sooner put Terrell Davis in.

There might be a limited number of backs who get in, because the voters probably won't put in a half-dozen in a small span of time.

Cribbs>Hester
08-18-2008, 03:26 PM
Wow. I'm reading this and laughing myself breathless. How long have most of you even been watching football???

If this board was incharge of the HoF it would become The Hall of The Very Good.

Geo
08-18-2008, 03:28 PM
Warren Moon and Art Monk are in the Hall of Very Good already.

scottyboy
08-18-2008, 03:45 PM
Wow. I'm reading this and laughing myself breathless. How long have most of you even been watching football???

If this board was incharge of the HoF it would become The Hall of The Very Good.

you think Taylor is better than Strahan and cribbs better than Hester.

nobody gives a **** at what you laugh at


but some of these names are a little ridiculous

yourfavestoner
08-18-2008, 05:00 PM
YFS, if McNair picked up a ring do you think he would be in?

The answer would still be no. Steve was a very very good player in his prime. But I'd never go so far as to say that he was one of the best quarterbacks to ever play in the NFL.

I don't know the exact numbers, but the percentage of players that make it into the Hall of Fame from each decade is incredibly small. And once this generation, with its ridiculously stupid amount of padded statistics, starts retiring it's going to be even harder for a lot of guys to make it into the Hall of Fame.

Cribbs>Hester
08-18-2008, 05:06 PM
Warren Moon and Art Monk are in the Hall of Very Good already.

Art Monk owned several all time records and the all important ring at the point of his retirement. Half the guys, if not more, listed in this thread aren't even going to be Top 10 in many statistical categories let alone have any rings ala Shaun Alexander, Steve McNair, Will Shields, Pat Williams, Casey Hampton and Simeon Rice...

Cribbs>Hester
08-18-2008, 05:07 PM
you think Taylor is better than Strahan and cribbs better than Hester.

nobody gives a **** at what you laugh at


but some of these names are a little ridiculous


When did I say Taylor is better than Strahan? I said when he finally hangs it up he will be better and have accomplished more than Strahan. Taylor has several years to go until his tank hits E.

Cribbs is a better all around returnman and special teamer. Devin Hester is going to get into the endzone more because of better top end speed.

Shiver
08-19-2008, 05:25 PM
If Shaun Alexander makes the hall of fame I will literally weep.

scottyboy
08-19-2008, 05:45 PM
If Shaun Alexander makes the hall of fame I will literally weep.

considering right now he can't make an NFL roster, I doubt he makes the hall :)

Rjspartan
08-19-2008, 06:39 PM
Tony Gonzalez (http://www.nfl.com/players/tonygonzalez/profile?id=GON587645)

Tom Brady (http://www.nfl.com/players/tombrady/profile?id=BRA371156)

Peyton Manning (http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonmanning/profile?wid=MAN515097)

Marvin Harrison (http://www.nfl.com/players/marvinharrison/profile?id=HAR608874)

Ray Lewis (http://www.nfl.com/players/raylewis/profile?id=LEW562347)

LaDainian Tomlinson (http://www.nfl.com/players/ladainiantomlinson/profile?id=TOM683150)

Champ Bailey (http://www.nfl.com/players/champbailey/profile?id=BAI582194)

Brian Urlacher (http://www.nfl.com/players/brianurlacher/profile?id=URL059326)

Derrick Brooks (http://www.nfl.com/players/derrickbrooks/profile?id=BRO122327)

W. Jones (http://www.nfl.com/players/walterjones/profile?id=JON795619)

I agree 100%