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d34ng3l021
07-31-2008, 02:40 PM
I was bored.

1. Peyton Manning
The debate for number 1 could go on for ages (number 1 all time?), but for right now, I am picking the guy who has had 9 consecutive 4000+ yard seasons, averages 30.6 TDs a year (including his rookie season), gets sacked an average of 19 times a season, has lost 17 fumbles in his career, and is the unquestionable leader of a very good Colts team that contends every year. A huge knock on him is his post season performance, but I think he is slowly getting over that and will soon be able to dominate in the post season as well. His post season performance could be the reason to demote him to number 2 though. I also prefer his 49 TD season over Brady's 50 TD season. Manning actually had to throw that many TDs to get over his defense. Brady was just crushing teams. Also, Manning had 497 attempts to Brady's 578 attempts and 15 full games played to Brady's 16 full games.

2. Tom Brady
Tom Brady might as well be 1b or 1 itself. After being known as a perennial winner and a guy who is chasing Montana, Brady let his critics know just how good he is with an arsenal that could be compared to Manning's. What Brady lacks in the regular season, he more than makes it up in the post season. With a terrific record in the post season, Brady is known to be clutch and has come through when it has mattered most (see his SB MVPs). After the Patriots got Randy Moss, Brady blew up statistically and could easily overtake Manning as regular season QB king. The debate between Peyton Manning and Tom Brady is one for the ages. These 2 great QBs still have 5-6 years left and their rivalry should continue to bud. We are witnessing something special.

3. Drew Brees
The battle for number 3 is really where controversy begins. With so many candidates (Palmer, Romo, Roethlisberger, Hasselbeck), the choice is very difficult. It can completely come down to personal preference. For me though, I will have to pick the rival QB Drew Brees. This guy is a complete stud. He partially deserved the MVP in 2006 when he almost single handedly took a poor Saints team to the NFCCG. The reason for the Saints turn around is not Reggie Bush or Marques Colston. It may be the hiring of Sean Payton. It definitely is the play of Drew Brees. We have seen him mature as a player from a guy who wasnt even starting to a Pro Bowl QB to an elite QB. Here is a guy who was chasing Marino's 5084 yard record in 2006 until he tailed off in his last 3 games. This previous season, Drew Brees started out the season with 1 TD and 9 interceptions and 929 yards (which would lead to 3700 yards) in his first 4 games. He finished the season with: 28 TDs 18 interceptions, and 4400 yards. He finished the season with 27 TDs and 9 interceptions and nearly 300 yards a game. Brees is only 29 and with the beating he takes, he will most likely play for a while. I can see him establishing himself as the number 3 QB in everyone's mind soon enough.

4. Tony Romo
Now heres a great story. Tony is undrafted, sits on the bench for 3 years and then all of a sudden, he is the star QB of the Dallas Cowboys and is getting girls like Carrie Underwood and Jessica Simpson. Truly night and day. In his first 10 starts, he goes to the pro bowl and throws 19 TDs in 10 starts. Romo outdoes himself in his first full season starting by throwing 36 TDs and leading the Cowboys to a 13-3 record. With more playing time, he will be able to lower his interception numbers, and he is entering his 3rd season starting which should be able to lead to some great numbers. He is a very good player with great pocket presence and knows how to get TO the ball.

5. Carson Palmer
Deciding between Palmer and Roethlisberger is very difficult. I am going to go with Carson Palmer because he has had more years of actually leading a team as oppose to Roethlisberger who was just asked to manage a team. After winning the Heisman and being drafted number 1 overall, Palmer has not disappointed. He broke out in his 3rd season with 3700 yards, 67% completion rate, and 32 TDs with 12 interceptions. After that, he is basically a guarantee for 4000 yards and 25+ TDs. Along with the best deep ball in the NFL, Palmer displays great accuracy. I kind of feel bad for him because his team seems to continue to disappoint despite his excellent play.

6. Ben Roethlisberger
This guy looks to be great. He leads his team to a 13-0 record while he is a starter in the regular season by tossing 17 TDs and 11 interceptions and having an astounding QB rating of 98.1 as a rookie. From then on, expectations were set high, and Big Ben has not disappointed. Big Ben and the Steelers went on to win the Superbowl as a 6th seed in his 2nd season. His 3rd season was below par, but after you get into an accident like he did, I would not be too surprised. His last season was the most impressive in my opinion. Big Ben showed that he is capable of being the main playmaker on the Steelers offense by tossing 32 TDs to 11 interceptions. And he only turned 26 a couple months ago. I really like his skill set and his pocket awareness in awesome. I expect big things out of him in the future.

7. Matt Hasselbeck
This guy is truly very underrated. He doesnít possess the great physical tools of Palmer or Manning, but he still finds a way to get it done. He doesnít have a great arm, nor is he very athletic or anything, but last year he managed to throw for 4000 yards and 28 TDs. With the decline of Shaun Alexander, Matt Hasselbeck really turned on the jets and showed that he has the capability of being a franchise QB. He does all this with whom at WR? Nate Burleson? Deion Branch? I donít even know. Matt Hasselbeck is a very reliable and smart QB who will give you around 3500 yards with 25ish TDs in a year.

8. Eli Manning
Placing Eli Manning in this list is very difficult I think. He is the epitome of inconsistency. One game he played like an All-Pro by placing the ball perfectly all over the place. Then for a couple games he is seems like he is a bust by making terrible decisions. The only reason I have him in here is because of his consistent play off stretch and maybe it might carry over. Another reason he is on here is the fact that he is very clutch and always has been. I like that about him.

9. Phillip Rivers
Like Eli Manning, Rivers place in here is somewhat difficult, but not for the same reason. Rivers plays with such amazing talent around him and with that, its hard to gauge his skill exactly. He has an amazing offensive line, the top TE and HB in the league and a pretty good WR corp. But things like this can be said of a lot of people, but Rivers does actually produce very well and thatís why he is here. Though he has been sitting on the bench for a couple of years, he exploded as soon as he was a starter. I expect for him to only get better as he gets more playing time as a starter. With the potential his WRs showed in the playoffs, who knows how many spots he can jump next year.

10. David Garrard
Now here is a guy who came out of nowhere and did an awesome job. Turnovers are such a huge factor in games and Garrad excels at limiting them. He started 12 games and finished with 18 TDs and 3 interceptions which leads to 24 TDs and 4 interceptions if he had started the whole season. Along with a high completion percentage and a good 7.7 YPA, I expect even better things from him in the upcoming seasons.

Honorable Mentions
Matt Ryan
Donovan McNabb
Jeff Garcia
Marc Bulger

Did I forget someone? I felt as if I did.

Discuss.

Excel Monkey
07-31-2008, 02:45 PM
Are you not including Favre because it's unclear whether he'll play or not?

Matt Ryan on the honourable mention list?

d34ng3l021
07-31-2008, 02:46 PM
Yeah I didnt wanna deal with Favre. If I were to include him, he would probably be at 4-5.

L-Train79
07-31-2008, 02:47 PM
What are you thinking with Matt Ryan? That is ridiculous. He hasn't played a game and he is top 15? Not too mention he will play for a sub par team.

eaglesalltheway
07-31-2008, 02:51 PM
I think it was a JOKE.

Paranoidmoonduck
07-31-2008, 02:53 PM
Seriously, where's JaMarcus Russell??!!

Anyway, I think I mostly agree with this list. I don't really try and rank players too much, I think it's mostly wasted time, but nothing stood out to me as egregious.

Gay Ork Wang
07-31-2008, 02:59 PM
What are you thinking with Matt Ryan? That is ridiculous. He hasn't played a game and he is top 15? Not too mention he will play for a sub par team.

its obviously a joke

KCJ58
07-31-2008, 03:03 PM
MAtt Ryan are you ******* kidding me!?!?!

Strawdog
07-31-2008, 03:04 PM
I am not positive you forgot him, but since Matt Ryan is an HM, it seems Jay Cutler should be mentioned somewhere in the post.

Gay Ork Wang
07-31-2008, 03:05 PM
jesus Christ people

He is a falcons fan. So he obviously made a joke. Jesus christ

but u did forget Delhomme and maybe Campbell/Schaub

KCJ58
07-31-2008, 03:05 PM
I would also put McNabb and Bulger over Garrard

also I would put Palmer & Romo over Brees

BRAVEHEART
07-31-2008, 03:10 PM
If the bengals didn't underachieve the last two years It'd be Carson at that number three spot.

Breaker
07-31-2008, 03:15 PM
Matt Ryan? I think I would put Tim Tebow over him. :rolleyes:

keylime_5
07-31-2008, 03:19 PM
Matt Ryan should be higher. Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn should be #s 1 and 2 respectively also.
Romo isn't as good as Brees or Palmer, or maybe even Big Ben. Put those guys on the Cowboys offense and they're better for it.

MetSox17
07-31-2008, 03:26 PM
I think David Garrard has to show a little more than what he has to be a top-10 quarterback, for me. Donovan McNabb, despite the health issues, should still be a top 10 quarterback.

d34ng3l021
07-31-2008, 03:33 PM
I am pretty infatuated with Drew Brees, but 3-5 are pretty interchangeable between him, Palmer, and Romo (maybe Big Ben). I personally prefer Drew Brees because I like his skill set. His accuracy on short and medium throws is up there with Tom Brady and Peyton Manning and accuracy in a throw is one of the most important things you could ask for out of a QB. His deep ball continues to get better and better the longer he is in the league. Maybe I am just used to seeing him needle the ball basically through every throw against the Falcons, but Drew Brees is worth the number 3 spot for me.

I wasn't sure whether or not to put McNabb on the list or not, but I think injuries have just barely kept him out. He has played 4 full seasons while he has been in the NFL. I dont like that.

ChezPower4
07-31-2008, 03:36 PM
I don't think that Eli Manning is better than Phillip Rivers. Rivers is way more consitant and is a much better leader. Manning has yet to show that he can be consitantly good for a whole season and he's a lot more prone to turn the ball over than Rivers.

Gay Ork Wang
07-31-2008, 03:40 PM
Manning won a superbowl

lionsfan81
07-31-2008, 03:56 PM
No Jon Kitna, WTF????




jkkk, definitely just joking

vidae
07-31-2008, 04:06 PM
I like your list. I'd personally put Carson 4th, and I'd definitely have McNabb over Garrard and Rivers, but the list is a very solid one.

Cribbs>Hester
07-31-2008, 04:13 PM
You seemed to have forgotten the best QB in the NFL...Charlie Frye

Cunningham
07-31-2008, 04:16 PM
rivers doesn't belong in the top 10

Brent
07-31-2008, 05:21 PM
I feel like people dont respect Hasselbeck. He has done so much without many WRs for so long. It seems like it wasnt until last year that he had some good WRs.

Ness
07-31-2008, 05:28 PM
No Cutler love? Just kidding.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-31-2008, 05:35 PM
I'm still not buying the Manning is a top 10 QB stuff. Spare me the "he won the Superbowl." That obviously had a large part to do with the defense. Honestly, if the Giants defense wasn't as good as it was, and the final score was Patriots 28-17... does Manning even enter this conversation? He had a good showing in the playoffs, but he had a 23-20 TD-INT ratio. He was 12th in passing yards, 11th in TDs, 1st in INTs, 25th in rating, etc. 3 good games in the playoffs do not make those stats go away.

GermanSaint
07-31-2008, 05:46 PM
also I would put Palmer & Romo over Brees

why ? drew brees is top notch every year , even when his team has a down year.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock
07-31-2008, 06:11 PM
I'm still not buying the Manning is a top 10 QB stuff. Spare me the "he won the Superbowl." That obviously had a large part to do with the defense. Honestly, if the Giants defense wasn't as good as it was, and the final score was Patriots 28-17... does Manning even enter this conversation? He had a good showing in the playoffs, but he had a 23-20 TD-INT ratio. He was 12th in passing yards, 11th in TDs, 1st in INTs, 25th in rating, etc. 3 good games in the playoffs do not make those stats go away.

Honestly, if the Patriots didnt have randy moss the final score would have been 21-13 Chargers over giants.

MetSox17
07-31-2008, 06:27 PM
I'm still not buying the Manning is a top 10 QB stuff. Spare me the "he won the Superbowl." That obviously had a large part to do with the defense. Honestly, if the Giants defense wasn't as good as it was, and the final score was Patriots 28-17... does Manning even enter this conversation? He had a good showing in the playoffs, but he had a 23-20 TD-INT ratio. He was 12th in passing yards, 11th in TDs, 1st in INTs, 25th in rating, etc. 3 good games in the playoffs do not make those stats go away.

Tell that to Geo.

I'm with you though, he has had one good post-season run, and all of a sudden you gotta forget that he's a career 77.6 rating guy..

LonghornsLegend
07-31-2008, 06:38 PM
why ? drew brees is top notch every year , even when his team has a down year.

Romo is top notch every year also, Brees has been top notch the past few seasons but obviously he didn't start his career that way...People always want to say they want to see more of Romo yet Brees started progressing late, Romo started half a season and played great, and followed it up with an even better season...It's not a stretch at all to place Romo at #3, but again as he stated its all about preference, Big Ben, Romo, Hass, Carson, Brees could all have a case for #3, but Romo is just as deserving as some of the others.

Sniper
07-31-2008, 07:01 PM
I'm still not buying the Manning is a top 10 QB stuff. Spare me the "he won the Superbowl." That obviously had a large part to do with the defense. Honestly, if the Giants defense wasn't as good as it was, and the final score was Patriots 28-17... does Manning even enter this conversation? He had a good showing in the playoffs, but he had a 23-20 TD-INT ratio. He was 12th in passing yards, 11th in TDs, 1st in INTs, 25th in rating, etc. 3 good games in the playoffs do not make those stats go away.

Bless your heart for saying this.

Trent Dilfer also won a Super Bowl piggybacking on an awesome D. Is he an elite QB?

TACKLE
07-31-2008, 07:16 PM
Really Good List. The top 10 is really close to mine. I'm glad you didn't overrate Eli like many people are now. That's probably where he belongs. Also, like Brees at #3.

d34ng3l021
07-31-2008, 08:14 PM
Like I said, putting Eli Manning there was tough. A huge reason I put him on the list was because of his post season success. I think a string of consistently good performances (especially ones that matter so much) can do wonders for him.

And of course, I didnt want crap from the gazillion Giants fans on here.

MetSox17
07-31-2008, 08:16 PM
Like I said, putting Eli Manning there was tough. A huge reason I put him on the list was because of his post season success. I think a string of consistently good performances (especially ones that matter so much) can do wonders for him.

And of course, I didnt want crap from the gazillion Giants fans on here.

I don't think one good post-season makes you a top ten quarterback. He's atrocious at times during the regular season. He's never had a 80.0+ Qb rating during a season, so that enough is pretty bad.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-31-2008, 08:26 PM
Honestly, if the Patriots didnt have randy moss the final score would have been 21-13 Chargers over giants.


That was just a point. Forget the defense comment, and say the Patriots won the game in any way shape or form. If that happens, I don't think Eli gets all this hype.

scottyboy
07-31-2008, 08:31 PM
too many posts in here to quote so here's how I feel:

To the guy who wants Rivers over Eli: Rivers can't win with freaking Tomlinson and Gates out in media friendly Whales Vagina. He hasn't done ****. Give me a break with that one.

QB rating is the most over-rated stat of all time. It doesn't mean **** IMO

Sniper: Nobody's calling Eli "elite". Top 10 is not a stretch, AT ALL. And that Ravens D was special. Not even close to what the Giants D did for us. That Ravens D created points and was the epitome of intimidation. We just had a sweet pass rush. Why nobody ran at Fred Robbins, Kawika Mitchell and Reggie Torbor is beyond me.(granted Osi, Strahan and Pierce swallowed the run, but nothing like that Ravens D)

QB is the most IMPORTANT position on the field. Yea, our D was awesome, but now people are OVER analysing the game and giving our D more and more credit, and our O very little. Eli shined when he needed to, in the postseason.

I may be in the minority here, but I judge QB's on winning, not stats.

Did you guys know Sage Rosenfels, Kurt Warner, Chad Pennington, John Kitna, Joey Harrington, Huard, Griese, and Boller all had better QB ratings than Eli? Are they better?

just saying how ****** of a stat QB rating is.

Now am I saying Eli is elite? **** no. But(although nobody here will admit or agree with because of lack of knowledge of the Giants) Eli IS a leader. He lead the Giants to a Super Bowl victory, plain and simple. Was EXCELLENT against the Pats, who were a top D last year. The only INT was a ******** drop from rookie Steve Smith.

And ATL, we could play the "what if" game forever. The fact is, the D held them, the O had lenghty drives and came out on top

scottyboy
07-31-2008, 08:32 PM
That was just a point. Forget the defense comment, and say the Patriots won the game in any way shape or form. If that happens, I don't think Eli gets all this hype.

If the Pats win 38-35 and Eli throws 4 TD's and no INT's, I still think he'd get some of this "hype".

ATLDirtyBirds
07-31-2008, 08:38 PM
If the Pats win 38-35 and Eli throws 4 TD's and no INT's, I still think he'd get some of this "hype".




Sure, but not as much. The fact is, he had 3 good playoff games, and lead the Giants on the final drive. (The GB game he didn't really do much... but didn't do anything wrong). However, a good playoffs shouldn't make up for the fact that his season wasn't the season of a top-10 QB. Now should his playoffs help? For sure. Should it elevate him to top 10? I don't think so.


EDIT- And yeah, I'm not a huge QB Rating guy either. The rest of his stats don't live up to a top 10 QB either.

bantx
07-31-2008, 08:38 PM
How can u just judge a QB on winning..so if a QB has a great season and he didnt win one game hes not considered a good qb cause he didnt win one..its more to it then just winning and like ATL said u cant ignore that "He was 12th in passing yards, 11th in TDs, 1st in INTs, 25th in rating"

scottyboy
07-31-2008, 08:42 PM
How can u just judge a QB on winning..so if a QB has a great season and he didnt win one game hes not considered a good qb cause he didnt win one..its more to it then just winning and like ATL said u cant ignore "He was 12th in passing yards, 11th in TDs, 1st in INTs, 25th in rating"

Well 12th in yards in a run happy system, 11th in TD's with bruiser Jacobs are pretty nice numbers. Even if we passed alot more. 1st in INT's I have no defense for. Alot of that did come in the Vikings game. When it rains on Eli, it ******* pours. He throws too many.

And I already threw out the rating. QB rating is an awful system. Seriously, it's not even worth mentioning.

And what team with a good QB who has good numbers isn't gonna win a game. If you're QB plays well, the team will. Simple as that really(unless your D is like complete and total ****)

Eli is in the 7-12 range of QB's in the league. I'm not going to over-rate him like many blind Giants fans I know, and I'm not going to hate on him like the NFC East, Chargers(not a shot at you bantx, all the SD fans I know) and othe rEli haters do.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-31-2008, 08:46 PM
Well 12th in yards in a run happy system, 11th in TD's with bruiser Jacobs are pretty nice numbers. Even if we passed alot more. 1st in INT's I have no defense for. Alot of that did come in the Vikings game. When it rains on Eli, it ******* pours. He throws too many.

And I already threw out the rating. QB rating is an awful system. Seriously, it's not even worth mentioning.

And what team with a good QB who has good numbers isn't gonna win a game. If you're QB plays well, the team will. Simple as that really(unless your D is like complete and total ****)

Eli is in the 7-12 range of QB's in the league. I'm not going to over-rate him like many blind Giants fans I know, and I'm not going to hate on him like the NFC East, Chargers(not a shot at you bantx, all the SD fans I know) and othe rEli haters do.


I know the Giants like to run, but it isn't a run happy system. He was 12th in yards while having the 7th most thrown passes. Not to mention the 56.1 completion percentage which rates him 29th in the league.

BaLLiN
07-31-2008, 08:49 PM
I'm still not buying the Manning is a top 10 QB stuff. Spare me the "he won the Superbowl." That obviously had a large part to do with the defense. Honestly, if the Giants defense wasn't as good as it was, and the final score was Patriots 28-17... does Manning even enter this conversation? He had a good showing in the playoffs, but he had a 23-20 TD-INT ratio. He was 12th in passing yards, 11th in TDs, 1st in INTs, 25th in rating, etc. 3 good games in the playoffs do not make those stats go away.

well yea, i wouldnt put manning or rivers that high, probably not even romo. If you look at what all those guys were working with, manning had the worst. His running game was what really made the team, when tiki left it gave him confidence because he knew he had to step up. Shockey was just a toddler, he never ran his routes well. Toomer was very inconsistant, Burress had a huge attitude problem last year and was injured this year. Our defense was definitely not that good, it was just that we had so much momentum during the playoffs because we wanted strahan, our leader, to go away with a ring.

Manning is inconsistant, but if you look at last year against the cowboys in the playoffs, youll see that his step to success started there. When his recievers run their routes and finish, he does well. Most of these interceptions are because of route running. Go back and look at each and every game. You cant put all those INTs on manning.

scottyboy
07-31-2008, 08:49 PM
I know the Giants like to run, but it isn't a run happy system. He was 12th in yards while having the 7th most thrown passes. Not to mention the 56.1 completion percentage which rates him 29th in the league.

run happy may have been a bit exaggeration, but we do love to run. His completion percentage blows, which does lead to more thrown passes(missing on 2nd, forced to throw on 3rd etc.)

I'll admit, the Eli love has grown too far of late, but the fact that he's won, under all the pressure he faces, deserves alot of credit and consideration. Stats do lie, wins however, do not.


ATL, living in the tri-state area, you do know the kind of pressure he gets. Every bad throw, he gets TONS of **** for

scottyboy
07-31-2008, 08:50 PM
well yea, i wouldnt put manning or rivers that high, probably not even romo. If you look at what all those guys were working with, manning had the worst. His running game was what really made the team, when tiki left it gave him confidence because he knew he had to step up. Shockey was just a toddler, he never ran his routes well. Toomer was very inconsistant, Burress had a huge attitude problem last year and was injured this year. Our defense was definitely not that good, it was just that we had so much momentum during the playoffs because we wanted strahan, our leader, to go away with a ring.

Manning is inconsistant, but if you look at last year against the cowboys in the playoffs, youll see that his step to success started there. When his recievers run their routes and finish, he does well. Most of these interceptions are because of route running. Go back and look at each and every game. You cant put all those INTs on manning.

This much is true. We don't have a team of all-pros out there on O, and Shockey is responsible for at least 1/3 of those INT's. My lord the guy never ran the right route haha

BaLLiN
07-31-2008, 08:51 PM
run happy may have been a bit exaggeration, but we do love to run. His completion percentage blows, which does lead to more thrown passes(missing on 2nd, forced to throw on 3rd etc.)

I'll admit, the Eli love has grown too far of late, but the fact that he's won, under all the pressure he faces, deserves alot of credit and consideration. Stats do lie, wins however, do not.


ATL, living in the tri-state area, you do know the kind of pressure he gets. Every bad throw, he gets TONS of **** for

yea, in the paper they make fun of him one weekend, then the next he's a hero. But i think this experience may help him, knowing that he won, he wont have to worry or deal with the pressure

scottyboy
07-31-2008, 08:56 PM
yea, in the paper they make fun of him one weekend, then the next he's a hero. But i think this experience may help him, knowing that he won, he wont have to worry or deal with the pressure

With much less pressure, more experienced RB's(nice trio as well), no Shockey to ***** at him after every throw, I think Eli will improve even more this year. Make big strides. I think he tried to make every single pass pure perfection to avoid getting bitched at. Now Shockey's gone, we've got a real OC, and Plax is much more mature. Throw in the ring he's got, and his confidence will be out the roof

ATLDirtyBirds
07-31-2008, 08:58 PM
well yea, i wouldnt put manning or rivers that high, probably not even romo. If you look at what all those guys were working with, manning had the worst. His running game was what really made the team, when tiki left it gave him confidence because he knew he had to step up. Shockey was just a toddler, he never ran his routes well. Toomer was very inconsistant, Burress had a huge attitude problem last year and was injured this year. Our defense was definitely not that good, it was just that we had so much momentum during the playoffs because we wanted strahan, our leader, to go away with a ring.

Manning is inconsistant, but if you look at last year against the cowboys in the playoffs, youll see that his step to success started there. When his recievers run their routes and finish, he does well. Most of these interceptions are because of route running. Go back and look at each and every game. You cant put all those INTs on manning.


There's a story behind every INT. Every QB gets breaks like that. You can't give Manning a free pass.

ATLDirtyBirds
07-31-2008, 09:00 PM
run happy may have been a bit exaggeration, but we do love to run. His completion percentage blows, which does lead to more thrown passes(missing on 2nd, forced to throw on 3rd etc.)

I'll admit, the Eli love has grown too far of late, but the fact that he's won, under all the pressure he faces, deserves alot of credit and consideration. Stats do lie, wins however, do not.


ATL, living in the tri-state area, you do know the kind of pressure he gets. Every bad throw, he gets TONS of **** for



He does. It's an added pressure most don't have to deal with. Living here however, (as a Falcons fan), I watch just about every Giants game. I can unobjectively say that as of right now, he is not a top 10 QB. Let me see some regular season preformance before I'd put him in the category.

BaLLiN
07-31-2008, 09:04 PM
There's a story behind every INT. Every QB gets breaks like that. You can't give Manning a free pass.

i know, but still, shockeys route running is atrocious. Last year Burress was a whiny baby, toomer was inconsistant or injured or something. our defense came together at the end of the season.

BaLLiN
07-31-2008, 09:14 PM
i agree my top 10 would be

1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Big Ben
4. Matt Hasselbeck
5. Drew Brees
6. Carson Palmer
7. Jeff Garcia
8. Tony Romo
9. Derek Anderson
10. Manning, Garrard, Rivers

Dont rip me for Garcia

if Mcnabb can stay healthy, he breaks the top 10

bantx
07-31-2008, 09:18 PM
i agree my top 10 would be

1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Big Ben
4. Matt Hasselbeck
5. Drew Brees
6. Carson Palmer
7. Jeff Garcia
8. Tony Romo
9. Derek Anderson
10. Manning, Garrard, Rivers

Dont rip me for Garcia

if Mcnabb can stay healthy, he breaks the top 10

that list is horrible

thule
07-31-2008, 09:21 PM
The funny thing about Romo is...he has less than 30 games totaled played...it'd be interesting to break down the games started from all QB's and see how that stacked up.

BaLLiN
07-31-2008, 09:30 PM
that list is horrible

thanks, just the way i feel

TheBuffaloBills
07-31-2008, 09:33 PM
This is my top ten list of Quarterbacks

1. Peyton Manning, Colts, QB
2. Tom Brady, Patriots, QB
3. Drew Brees, Saints, QB
4. Tony Romo, Cowboys, QB
5. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers, QB
6. Carson Palmer, Bengals, QB
7. David Garrard, Jaguars, QB
8. Matt Hassleback, Seahawks, QB
9. Derek Anderson, Browns, QB
10. Donovan McNabb, Eagles, QB

Thoughts?

bearsfan_51
07-31-2008, 09:35 PM
David Garrard is not a top 10 quarterback. His job is to take the ball, turn around, and hand it off.

Turtlepower
07-31-2008, 09:36 PM
David Garrard is not a top 10 quarterback. His job is to take the ball, turn around, and hand it off.

Dirk Koetter makes **** look like gold in his offensive schemes. He made Andrew ****ing Walter a 3rd round draft pick. Everyone should remember that.

TheBuffaloBills
07-31-2008, 09:37 PM
David Garrard is not a top 10 quarterback. His job is to take the ball, turn around, and hand it off.

You just hate me man

bearsfan_51
07-31-2008, 09:41 PM
I honestly have no idea who you are.

Saint Michael
07-31-2008, 09:44 PM
I would also put McNabb and Bulger over Garrard

also I would put Palmer & Romo over BreesBrees does more with less. He's over both.

Palmer is ridiculously overrated.

BaLLiN
07-31-2008, 09:44 PM
well i dont think garrard is a top 10 QB, i just like that he takes care of the ball.

bantx
07-31-2008, 09:46 PM
well i dont think garrard is a top 10 QB, i just like that he takes care of the ball.

then why was he #7....

Iamcanadian
07-31-2008, 09:49 PM
[QUOTE=d34ng3l021;1157616]I was bored.

1. Peyton Manning -There is no way Peyton is # 1 over Brady. Outside of maybe Tony Dungy, there isn't a NFL HC who wouldn't take Brady over Peyton at the drop of a hat.


2. Tom Brady- Clearly the top QB of the era by quite a bit unless you judge him as a fantasy league player where winning doesn't count.


3. Drew Brees-Until Brees shows he can get New Orleans into the playoffs consistantly, there is no way he is #3.


4. Tony Romo-Like Peyton a couple of yeasrs ago, until he does something in the playoffs, there is no way he rates this high.


5. Carson Palmer-Carson is loaded with talent but until he shows he can take a team to the next level, he rates lower than this.


6. Ben Roethlisberger- Has earned the right to the #3 position based on playoff operformance alone.


7. Matt Hasselbeck - Too high in my opinion. Not strong enough to take a pretty good Seatlle team to the final prize.


8. Eli Manning- Playoffs in 2 of the 3 years he's in the league culminating with a great performance in the SB raises him to #5 above all the QB's who flop once the playoffs start.


9. Phillip Rivers -Has aways to go to be considered a top 10 QB. Surrounded by talent but haven't even reached the SB.


10. David Garrard Overrated right now until he shows he can put 2 successful seasons together.


Honorable Mentions
Matt Ryan - Garbage to even mention him. He's proved nothing as of yet.
Donovan McNabb - When healthy, he's clearly still the #4 guy.
Jeff Garcia Not even worth mentioning.
Marc Bulger- Let's see if he can keep it together with Martz gone before I get too excited.



Serious consideration goes to Derek Anderson only if he has another good season.
Cutler could also move up this year as he is prime for a breakout season. Russell has the natural ability to rank among the top 5 QB's in the game but we'll have to wait to see if he can match his upside in real games.
Finally, Vince Young could breakout this season. He's a winning QB even when he is raw. Now he has some experience under his belt, he might just shock people.

BamaFalcon59
07-31-2008, 09:54 PM
I'm still not buying the Manning is a top 10 QB stuff. Spare me the "he won the Superbowl." That obviously had a large part to do with the defense. Honestly, if the Giants defense wasn't as good as it was, and the final score was Patriots 28-17... does Manning even enter this conversation? He had a good showing in the playoffs, but he had a 23-20 TD-INT ratio. He was 12th in passing yards, 11th in TDs, 1st in INTs, 25th in rating, etc. 3 good games in the playoffs do not make those stats go away.

I agree completely.

smittyjs
07-31-2008, 09:55 PM
Booty, booty, booty.... oh back to the list overall pretty good IMO

BaLLiN
07-31-2008, 09:58 PM
then why was he #7....

uhm, he wasnt. dunno where you see that

BamaFalcon59
07-31-2008, 10:02 PM
I'd put McNabb, Anderson, and Cutler all above Eli Manning. Maybe Kurt Warner too. Might sound dumb but he still performs.

CJSchneider
07-31-2008, 10:05 PM
He's washed up, but can't Kurt Warner get some honorable mention love?

d34ng3l021
07-31-2008, 10:35 PM
Derek Anderson doesnt deserve anything. He played with Joe Thomas and Eric Steinbach protecting him while he throws it up to 2 of the best pass catchers in the NFL at their position.

Somewhat similar things can be said the same about Kurt Warner. He is doing a really good job for how old he is, but he does have Fitzgerald and Boldin.

And David Garrard doesnt just turn around and hand it off. He threw about 27.1 times a game, which places him at 15th in attempts which is pretty damn good considering who he has as his RBs.

BlindSite
07-31-2008, 10:54 PM
McNabb, Anderson and Garrard don't belong in the top ten.

kalbears13
07-31-2008, 11:17 PM
Brady Quinn will be close to being on this list by the end of this year. You can quote me if you want. Derek Anderson will never do as good as he did last year. He's a mediocre QB with a canon for an arm. I think he should be ranked around the 25th QB.

d34ng3l021
07-31-2008, 11:26 PM
Brady Quinn will be close to being on this list by the end of this year. You can quote me if you want. Derek Anderson will never do as good as he did last year. He's a mediocre QB with a canon for an arm. I think he should be ranked around the 25th QB.

I personally like Derek Anderson. I like his huge arm and his great height. Last year was his first year starting and I expect him to get better. His accuracy and decision making will only improve. How can fans already be calling for his head? Why fix something if its right? 29 TDs as a first year starter is right.

smittyjs
07-31-2008, 11:32 PM
I personally like Derek Anderson. I like his huge arm and his great height. Last year was his first year starting and I expect him to get better. His accuracy and decision making will only improve. How can fans already be calling for his head? Why fix something if its right? 29 TDs as a first year starter is right.
i agreewignwith you on that, if ain't broken why fix it??

d34ng3l021
07-31-2008, 11:36 PM
i agreewignwith you on that, if ain't broken why fix it??

Thats the phrase I was looking for.

kalbears13
07-31-2008, 11:43 PM
I personally like Derek Anderson. I like his huge arm and his great height. Last year was his first year starting and I expect him to get better. His accuracy and decision making will only improve. How can fans already be calling for his head? Why fix something if its right? 29 TDs as a first year starter is right.

He might get better but last year the offense suffered almost no injuries. I doubt the Browns offense is going to survive 16 games with one of the hardest schedules without having a huge injury. Also, In the last 8 games, he averaged less than 210 passing yards a game and had 12 total TDs with 10 INTs. His completion percentage is around 56% and thrived in a crazy good offense. The schedule is really tough so I dont think he will put up the numbers. The Browns start out with Dallas, Pittsburgh and Baltimore. If Derek Anderson isn't great, you know the fans are going to be booing or going to the "Brady!" chants. Derek Anderson also choked and threw 4 INTs against Cincinnati to miss the playoffs.

EDIT: Because not making the playoffs is okay?

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
07-31-2008, 11:49 PM
i agreewignwith you on that, if ain't broken why fix it??

because what's not broken may not be the best.

d34ng3l021
07-31-2008, 11:49 PM
He might get better but last year the offense suffered almost no injuries. I doubt the Browns offense is going to survive 16 games with one of the hardest schedules without having a huge injury. Also, In the last 8 games, he averaged less than 210 passing yards a game and had 12 total TDs with 10 INTs. His completion percentage is around 56% and thrived in a crazy good offense. The schedule is really tough so I dont think he will put up the numbers. The Browns start out with Dallas, Pittsburgh and Baltimore. If Derek Anderson isn't great, you know the fans are going to be booing or going to the "Brady!" chants. Derek Anderson also choked and threw 4 INTs against Cincinnati to miss the playoffs.

EDIT: Because not making the playoffs is okay?

It was his first year starting. Of course he is going to make mistakes. I dont see why Brown fans arent just happy for being out of the NFL cellar and having a premier team. You guys are so young with Joe Thomas, Kellen Winslow, Braylon Edwards. Maybe you should focus on getting a defense before you call for your QB to be benched.

Rob S
07-31-2008, 11:52 PM
good list........but I honestly fail to see how Brady isnt #1. Its just blind Manning loving imo. And this is coming from a guy who hates Brady more than anyone in the universe. I wish terrible things on that man. But, he is the best in the biz. He is the better big game guy, has more SB by far, and now has had the best statistical season of all time, so please (biting my tongue.......) give the man his damn props.

kalbears13
07-31-2008, 11:56 PM
It was his first year starting. Of course he is going to make mistakes. I dont see why Brown fans arent just happy for being out of the NFL cellar and having a premier team. You guys are so young with Joe Thomas, Kellen Winslow, Braylon Edwards. Maybe you should focus on getting a defense before you call for your QB to be benched.

I'm not saying he should be benched but I feel like he will eventually due to the schedule and his luck last year. I believe Brady Quinn is the better QB. Derek Anderson is just getting by on a canon arm and good players around him which might not all be there by the end of the season.
I'm tired of not making the playoffs and so are all the other Browns fans.
A premier team is one that at least makes the playoffs.

d34ng3l021
07-31-2008, 11:58 PM
good list........but I honestly fail to see how Brady isnt #1. Its just blind Manning loving imo. And this is coming from a guy who hates Brady more than anyone in the universe. I wish terrible things on that man. But, he is the best in the biz. He is the better big game guy, has more SB by far, and now has had the best statistical season of all time, so please (biting my tongue.......) give the man his damn props.

How is preferring Manning over Brady 'blind Manning love?' The guy comes in year in year out and is a guarantee for 4000+yards and 30 TDs. Tom Brady has thrown for 4000 yards twice in his career. Brady has thrown for more than 30 TDs just once. And, Manning's 04 season was better than Brady's 07. Just because Brady threw for one more TD than Manning doesnt mean his season is the greatest of all time.

But of course those are all stats. Brady is the one with the 3 SB rings and is the one who performs very well in the post season which accounts for alot. Manning is not terrible in the post season, but his performance certainly dips down from his regular season ones. Thats the only argument I can see against Manning.

And SBs are a team thing. If Manning had a defense like the Patriots did then I am sure Manning would have another ring or two. In fact, the Colts defense is very good now and I wouldnt be surprised to see Manning end up with another ring or two.

d34ng3l021
08-01-2008, 12:02 AM
I'm not saying he should be benched but I feel like he will eventually due to the schedule and his luck last year. I believe Brady Quinn is the better QB. Derek Anderson is just getting by on a canon arm and good players around him which might not all be there by the end of the season.
I'm tired of not making the playoffs and so are all the other Browns fans.
A premier team is one that at least makes the playoffs.

I dont even see how you think Brady Quinn is the better QB. He was a rookie last year and had 8 pass attempts (of which he completed 3). Maybe if he had ridden the bench for 2-3 years and had learned the playbook, performed very well when given the opportunities, then your case might make sense. You have absolutely no idea how Quinn will perform in the NFL. You dont know if his throws will have enough zip. You dont know how he will perform against the pressure of NFL defenses.

What you do know is how DA will perform. Its not perfect, but its still pretty good with alot of room for improvement.

kalbears13
08-01-2008, 12:14 AM
I dont even see how you think Brady Quinn is the better QB. He was a rookie last year and had 8 pass attempts (of which he completed 3). Maybe if he had ridden the bench for 2-3 years and had learned the playbook, performed very well when given the opportunities, then your case might make sense. You have absolutely no idea how Quinn will perform in the NFL. You dont know if his throws will have enough zip. You dont know how he will perform against the pressure of NFL defenses.

What you do know is how DA will perform. Its not perfect, but its still pretty good with alot of room for improvement.

2 of those passes were dropped in the endzone and he drove down the field to where he should have scored but Kellen and Braylon both dropped very catchable passes. He did outstanding in the few preseason snaps he got (but that is preseason so you can't get a lot from that...). He has performed well at every opportunity and from what I've heard is working harder than everyone on the team. I don't know how Quinn will perform but I've watched a lot of him and I've liked him ever since his junior year at Notre Dame. I may be a Quinn homer but I think a lot of people (and Browns fans) agree with me.

bearsfan_51
08-01-2008, 12:42 AM
And David Garrard doesnt just turn around and hand it off. He threw about 27.1 times a game, which places him at 15th in attempts which is pretty damn good considering who he has as his RBs.
Yes because I was being literal.

The Jaguars were, along with the Steelers and Chargers, one of three playoff teams that ran the ball more than they passed it last year. Even the Steelers have slowly transitioned to a passing team. Garrard is a game manager, a nice one mind you, but not someone that I find all that impressive.

Anyway, here's my list:

1) Tom Brady- Talent-wise I still prefer Manning over Brady, but I think you really have to give Brady props for the year he had last year. I'm far more impressed by that then any Superbowl he won quite frankly. Touchdowns are a very overrated stat for quarterbacks, but the dude had a 50/8 ratio. That's insane.

2) Peyton Manning- He looks like a horse. He embaressed my Bears. No likey.

3) Drew Brees- You could go with a lot of guys after the latter two, but I'll give Brees his props. He went from something of a facilitator in San Diego to the director of that New Orleans offense. As much as the Saints flopped last year I'll put that on a lot of people before Brees.

4) Donovan McNabb- Everyone knows the health issues, so I'll leave it at that. But if I need to win one game McNabb is probably the 3rd guy I'm picking.

5) Tony Romo- I think he's been a little overrated simply because he has the best receiver in football on his team, but he's still awfully good. His ability to avoid defenders in the pocket is amazing, like Favre without as many stupid interceptions.

6) Brett Favre- Speak of the devil. I'm actually suprised myself I have him this high. I wrote him off in 2003, well before he had his worst years, but something clicked last season that I don't think you can totally ignore. If he goes to the Vikings they're my NFC pick. If he retires after the Packers give him 20+ million I'll just laugh.

7) Carson Palmer- He looked like a guy on the rise a few years ago but things have flattened out a bit. He takes two many sacks, and has far too many down games to be put much higher.

8) Big Ben- I guess I can't put him any lower considering he's won a lot of games, but I really don't think he won that many of them. The arrow is up on Ben though, so I think he could be much higher in a few years.

9) Jay Cutler- Well if we're projecting a bit then here's my first one. Cutler has had some pretty impressive numbers for a year and a half of work. Considering he's still very young, and has done it with a very underwhelming supporting cast, color me impressed.

10) Kurt Warner- Well if nobody else wants to give him props I will. I've never understood why Warner gets so disrespected. He's played well almost everywhere he's been, had three of the best years a quarterback has ever had, and is continually outplaying Matt Leinart. If nobody else wants to give him respect I will.

Just missed: Garrard (already listed why), Matt Hasselback/Marc Bulger (I'll put these both together, never been impressed with either), Matt Schaub (another young guy I look for real improvement from this year)

LonghornsLegend
08-01-2008, 12:46 AM
i agree my top 10 would be

1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Big Ben
4. Matt Hasselbeck
5. Drew Brees
6. Carson Palmer
7. Jeff Garcia
8. Tony Romo
9. Derek Anderson
10. Manning, Garrard, Rivers

Dont rip me for Garcia

if Mcnabb can stay healthy, he breaks the top 10


Are you serious or is this a joke?

LonghornsLegend
08-01-2008, 12:51 AM
10) Kurt Warner- Well if nobody else wants to give him props I will. I've never understood why Warner gets so disrespected. He's played well almost everywhere he's been, had three of the best years a quarterback has ever had, and is continually outplaying Matt Leinart. If nobody else wants to give him respect I will.

On this note, Warner really is a solid QB, he can sling it around and can thread a needle down field, his problem is he tends to get way too careless with the ball...If you have a great edge rusher he is likely to have a field day knocking the ball out of his hands, his pocket presence tends to crumble earlier once he has started getting hit...But you can't ignore his numbers, and I firmly believe he is better then Leinart right now


I agree with Cutler also, he has a chance to sneak into that top 5 QB range...Maybe Mayock was onto something for once lol.

Mr. Stiller
08-01-2008, 12:58 AM
My List:

1) Manning
2) Brady
3) Roethlisberger
4) Palmer
5) Brees
6) Romo
7) Hasselbeck
8) Favre
9) Rivers
10) Young

On the Cusp:

Marc Bulger
Eli Manning
Donovan McNabb
David Gerrard
Jeff Garcia

I want Eli to prove that he can play like the #1 overall pick and elite QB for more than 4 games.

GB12
08-01-2008, 01:04 AM
I want Eli to prove that he can play like the #1 overall pick and elite QB for more than 4 games.
Then why's Vince Young on your list...

bored of education
08-01-2008, 01:11 AM
No Brodie No Rep

Mr. Stiller
08-01-2008, 01:19 AM
Then why's Vince Young on your list...

Vince Young has played at Eli's level considering the serious void of talent in Tennessee.

I don't think 1 WR or 1 RB on Tennessee's Roster makes NYG's? Yet he continues to be a leader and will his team to winning records.

I thought coming out VY would be a bust, but the kid has won games with No talent. If Ten would actually get him some talent I think he can be special.

Where as..

Eli has always had the talent... and yet has only put together a string of 4 games to be impressed with.

MetSox17
08-01-2008, 03:06 AM
How can people completely disregard passer rating as an accurate assessment of a quarterback?

Yes, it's understandable that it isn't the perfect barometer for regular season success, much less playoffs, but get this.. IT RATES YOUR EFFICIENCY AS A PASSER! You know, that little thing that quarterbacks are supposed to do?

I like how people defend Eli's porous efficiency rating, only because it's so damn horrible. Thing is, he nearly throws one pick per td, and that just ain't doing it for me, as far as being rated Top-10. He has a team that's surrounded with weapons, yet he has never been able to put up a statistically decent season. If he made some good throws in the post season, good, he's a lot more respected than he once was, but don't come in and try to tell me that all of a sudden he's a better than two thirds of the league at what he does, just because he hit a few passes down the stretch.

BlindSite
08-01-2008, 04:27 AM
Anyone who watches Eli play knows his stats don't reflect his full performance. I've seen around half his games as a pro. He is easily a top 10 QB.

I'd have him below Manning, Brady and Brees, but not many others.

Gay Ork Wang
08-01-2008, 05:28 AM
No Brodie No Rep
My top 10:

0. Brodie Croyles
1a. Manning
1b. Brady
3. Brees
4. Palmer
5. Roethlisberger
6. Romo
7. Hasselbeck
8. Favre
9. Donovan McNabb
10. Eli

Iamcanadian
08-01-2008, 06:04 AM
Brady Quinn will be close to being on this list by the end of this year. You can quote me if you want. Derek Anderson will never do as good as he did last year. He's a mediocre QB with a canon for an arm. I think he should be ranked around the 25th QB.

Brady Quinn has done squat in the NFL and is nothing but unproven hype to this point. Anderson would be long gone if Savage and Crennel thought for a moment that Quinn could get the job done without missing a beat. The fact they retained Anderson likely shows the real talent level of Quinn = very, very average prospect.

Iamcanadian
08-01-2008, 06:18 AM
My top 10:


1a. Manning
1b. Brady
3. Brees
4. Palmer
5. Roethlisberger
6. Romo
7. Hasselbeck
8. Favre
9. Donovan McNabb
10. Eli

Not a bad list except It's ludicrous to put Peyton above Brady. I'd rate Roethlisberger #3 just for his consistency leading a contender to the playoffs something Brees and Palmer have yet to show. I'd also take a healthy Favre or McNabb over Brees and Palmer for the same reason. Romo is still a huge question mark until he demonstrates a real ability to perform in the playoffs. I'd take the consistent but not great Hasselbeck ahead of him until he proves he can get the job done. I have to put Eli just behind Favre and McNabb. He only missed the playoffs his rookie year and his comeback drive against a very tough NE defense in the last minute of a SB game, places him ahead of all those QB's who have yet to do squat in the playoffs.
The hate on Brady and Eli is laughable representing shear jealousy on the part of posters.

Gay Ork Wang
08-01-2008, 06:37 AM
its 1a and 1b and please, dont make another Brady Manning thread.

scottyboy
08-01-2008, 06:49 AM
Metsox, did you not see the guys who had higher passer ratings than Eli last year? It'sa terrible stat especially when judging a QB. I mean, come on, Joey Harrington?

And people are putting Derek Anderson on top 10 and saying they want more than a good playoffs out of Eli. Anderson played one year... let's see him do it more...

eaglesalltheway
08-01-2008, 07:43 AM
Anyone who watches Eli play knows his stats don't reflect his full performance.

Exactly right.


I've seen around half his games as a pro. He is easily a top 10 QB.

I'd have him below Manning, Brady and Brees, but not many others.

Huh? I know I am an eagles fan, but if anything Eli plays worse than hsi stats. He always looks scared, can't keep his feet still to save his likfe, is so inconsisitent. I have never ever watched a game where I was impressed by Eli, even the Superbowl. He did a nice job in the superbowl, don't get me worng, but he didn't do anything that makes you go wow, good play. Davbid Tyree was the sole reason for the catch Eli has a tendency to throw too high, and Tyree just did everything to save that ball. I have never been scared of Eli heading into a game, and even with the Superbowl, I still have absolutely no reason to think that he will rip the Eagles defense apart. I just do not have any reason to think Eli is in the top 10.

scottyboy
08-01-2008, 08:32 AM
Exactly right.



Huh? I know I am an eagles fan, but if anything Eli plays worse than hsi stats. He always looks scared, can't keep his feet still to save his likfe, is so inconsisitent. I have never ever watched a game where I was impressed by Eli, even the Superbowl. He did a nice job in the superbowl, don't get me worng, but he didn't do anything that makes you go wow, good play. Davbid Tyree was the sole reason for the catch Eli has a tendency to throw too high, and Tyree just did everything to save that ball. I have never been scared of Eli heading into a game, and even with the Superbowl, I still have absolutely no reason to think that he will rip the Eagles defense apart. I just do not have any reason to think Eli is in the top 10.

Always scared? Can't keep his feet? wtf games do you watch??

and yea, escaping 4 Pats defenders with guys GRABBING his jersey is nothing. Tyree made the whole play...

And you can keep being unafraid of Eli, but he'll take his 2 W's against Philly

and I can't believe you say he's afraid, especially after the huge comeback win 2 years ago...

eaglesalltheway
08-01-2008, 08:40 AM
All I'm saying is it seems like he is scared of geting hit when he is out there. Eli does look like a tap dancer out there, which results in him throwing off of his back foot on many occasions, which result in inaccurate (many times overthrown) balls. Eli eluded those defenders, but had a poor throw, otherwise, Tyree would have had a much easier play. Notice I said "Sole reason for CATCH," not play. Just because a guy has a comeback,or upset, doen't mean he isn't afraid. That comeback two years ago, there were so many screwy things that happened, the fumble recovered in the endzone for the Giants being the main highlight.

BamaFalcon59
08-01-2008, 08:52 AM
Metsox, did you not see the guys who had higher passer ratings than Eli last year? It'sa terrible stat especially when judging a QB. I mean, come on, Joey Harrington?

And people are putting Derek Anderson on top 10 and saying they want more than a good playoffs out of Eli. Anderson played one year... let's see him do it more...

Joey wasn't horrible last year. He just takes too many sacks and has a baby arm.

bored of education
08-01-2008, 09:11 AM
Seriously, lets not make this in to a Peyton v. Brady thread. They are both number 1. After that it is not as clear.

My top 7 looks sorta like this:
1. Peyton Brady
2. Big Ben
3. Drew Brees
4. Tony Romo
5. Carson Palmer
6. Phillip Rivers (eff you if you dont like that ;))
7. Matt Hasselbeck
8.

eaglesalltheway
08-01-2008, 09:15 AM
Switch Brees and Big Ben and that is pretty much my top 7, but I would add a healthy McNabb in there at 7. That is all I would really change.

Gay Ork Wang
08-01-2008, 09:17 AM
u gotta be kiddin, after he eluded all these players, how is he supposed to settle and then throw an accurate pass down field 40 yards?

eaglesalltheway
08-01-2008, 09:19 AM
u gotta be kiddin, after he eluded all these players, how is he supposed to settle and then throw an accurate pass down field 40 yards?

Well maybe if it is such a difficult thing to do then, he shouldn't have done it. Either way, it is a mental mistake or a poorly thrown ball.

bored of education
08-01-2008, 09:23 AM
I don't do IF HEALTHYS!

eaglesalltheway
08-01-2008, 09:25 AM
Sorry, I'll rephrase then BOE. SInce Donovan is healthy, I'll put him at 7 on my list. That work for you?:D

Rob S
08-01-2008, 09:25 AM
How is preferring Manning over Brady 'blind Manning love?' The guy comes in year in year out and is a guarantee for 4000+yards and 30 TDs. Tom Brady has thrown for 4000 yards twice in his career. Brady has thrown for more than 30 TDs just once. And, Manning's 04 season was better than Brady's 07. Just because Brady threw for one more TD than Manning doesnt mean his season is the greatest of all time.

But of course those are all stats. Brady is the one with the 3 SB rings and is the one who performs very well in the post season which accounts for alot. Manning is not terrible in the post season, but his performance certainly dips down from his regular season ones. Thats the only argument I can see against Manning.

And SBs are a team thing. If Manning had a defense like the Patriots did then I am sure Manning would have another ring or two. In fact, the Colts defense is very good now and I wouldnt be surprised to see Manning end up with another ring or two.

The way I see it, is Brady dominates the postseason. If you want to win one game, Brady is your man. There is no argument there really. There is an argument for stats. Last year was Brady's 1st year with Manning esque weapons. The only reson why Peyton's stats are better are Harrisson and Wayne. Brady was playing average WR for a long time, Manning had a HOF and one of the best WR in the game right now in Wayne. He has the stats, but why? And again, I think the final question u need to ask urself when its close is who do u want if u need to win one game? Brady.

DeathbyStat
08-01-2008, 09:41 AM
If Romo and Big Ben would switch teams...Big Ben's number would get even better and Romo's would sink

eaglesalltheway
08-01-2008, 09:44 AM
Of course that would be the case. I'm not trying to be an ***, but that is like saying if you put bread in a toaster, you get toast.

Gay Ork Wang
08-01-2008, 10:14 AM
Well maybe if it is such a difficult thing to do then, he shouldn't have done it. Either way, it is a mental mistake or a poorly thrown ball.
yea just throw it away and let ur team lose...

d34ng3l021
08-01-2008, 11:31 AM
The way I see it, is Brady dominates the postseason. If you want to win one game, Brady is your man. There is no argument there really. There is an argument for stats. Last year was Brady's 1st year with Manning esque weapons. The only reson why Peyton's stats are better are Harrisson and Wayne. Brady was playing average WR for a long time, Manning had a HOF and one of the best WR in the game right now in Wayne. He has the stats, but why? And again, I think the final question u need to ask urself when its close is who do u want if u need to win one game? Brady.

And if I dont want to win 1 game? If I want to dominate the regular season and make playoffs and do better than 10-6 every year and have a shot at the superbowl every year? I would pick Manning.

eaglesalltheway
08-01-2008, 11:34 AM
yea just throw it away and let ur team lose...

Or throw it to an open receiver, instead of coughing up a crappy throw.
The Gaints weren't even in a fourth down situation, so that argument doesn't even apply. They would have had at least another down to work with anyway.

Gay Ork Wang
08-01-2008, 12:03 PM
yea so what wouldve happened? It turned out good and to manage to throw that ball after that situation was a not the best decision, but in no regards a wrong one. He saw Tyree downfield, he threw it up and Tyree got it with alot of effort, but its still no knock on Manning by any means...

Rob S
08-01-2008, 12:22 PM
And if I dont want to win 1 game? If I want to dominate the regular season and make playoffs and do better than 10-6 every year and have a shot at the superbowl every year? I would pick Manning.

I respectfully have to disagree. Brady went 16-0 last year and CRUSHED everyone and has won superbowls with worse teams than Manning. And he does just fine in the regular season. Manning actually wasnt even that consistent last year........

MetSox17
08-01-2008, 12:59 PM
because, when presented as evidence, it's very rarely the third or fourth thing in a list of several grading criteria. it's typically the only thing someone tries to take into account, making for an obviously and fatally flawed argument.

for instance, does david garrard's rating last season mean he was really the third best qb? seems highly unlikely to me after actually watching him play. it sure as hell doesn't make damon huard the second best qb of 2006 (placing brady 9th). is chad pennington the 9th best qb of all time?

further, i forget where i posted it, but it's entirely possible to have a season in which a qb throws (iirc) 10 tds, 15 ints but has an extremely high completion percentage and still ends up with a 90+ rating (placing him in the top 5 or so in most years). which, statistically speaking, completely invalidates the "passer rating is a good ranking tool" argument.

again, use it as a one of SEVERAL factors, but the second that's the only argument you have... well. you've already lost the argument.

Well taking my whole previous post into consideration, it obviously wasn't my only argument towards explaining my apathy for Eli's game.

To answer your question, no, i did not think Garrard was the third best quarterback last year. Did i think he was the third most efficient quarterback last year? Yes. Obviously, offensive game plans and schemes have something to do with the type of throws and routes that quarterbacks deal with, but at the end of the season, i think it's a wash after so many games. Was Damon Huard the most efficient passer in the NFL for 8 games? Yes, he was. It's hard to argue against that when he had an 11 to 1 TD to INT ratio, while still having a 60% completion rate.

I know it's completely possible to have a high rating with a lot of interceptions as well, but you would need a very high completion percentage and yardage. It doesn't automatically rank someone as a great quarterback, but again, it does rate their efficiency as a passer, my argument all along.


Metsox, did you not see the guys who had higher passer ratings than Eli last year? It'sa terrible stat especially when judging a QB. I mean, come on, Joey Harrington?

And people are putting Derek Anderson on top 10 and saying they want more than a good playoffs out of Eli. Anderson played one year... let's see him do it more...

Yes Scotty, i did in fact see that there are plenty of quarterbacks with higher quarterback ratings than Eli. Again, for the record, i'm rating passing efficiency here. Something that rates what quarterbacks are meant to do. Pass the ball.

People say "you can't just use quarterback rating to devalue a player" but how can you just use one playoff performance to automatically catapult him to the top? It's a double edged sword, brother.

eaglesalltheway
08-01-2008, 01:19 PM
yea so what wouldve happened? It turned out good and to manage to throw that ball after that situation was a not the best decision, but in no regards a wrong one. He saw Tyree downfield, he threw it up and Tyree got it with alot of effort, but its still no knock on Manning by any means...

Just because the play turned out successfully does not mean it was an intelligent choice. Thery got lucky, and I realize luck is a part fo the game, but there are plenty of situations where players look back on a successful play and realize that they shouldn't have done what they did, despite the result. This is one of those plays.

scottyboy
08-01-2008, 04:08 PM
Tyree WAS open. The only open reciever was WAY across field, no chance. Tyree was open, Eli was under pressure, but threw a damn good throw for the circumtance.

And I'd rather him gun it to an open Tyree than try and go 4th and 11 against the Pats D. It was a high throw, but it HAD to be. You can't possibly take credit away from Eli on that play. It WAS a smart throw...

and Metsox, Eli isn't efficient, I'll give you that, which leads to moe throws then we'd like(he misses on 2nd, needs to throw again on 3rd etc.)

BUT while he doesn't pile stats, he isn't a Rex Grossman either. He belongs in the 8-12 range of QB's. If/when he cuts down the INT's, his numbers will be no doubt top 10. I mean he was 11th and 12th in stats ATL posted, pretty damn close to top 10...

Again, I take alot of stock in winning when talking about a QB. I don't give a **** your QB goes for 35 TD's and 3,500 yards, if he doesn't come up big when it matters. But that's me.

But alot of guys hating on Eli ARE NFC East fans...I'm not saying...

I'm just saying...

MetSox17
08-01-2008, 04:24 PM
I understand how winning games is important, but i thought we were rating quarterbacks as a whole. The complete package. And one of the most important parts of said package, is their efficiency as a passer.

I just don't like the fact that his interception total has increased every single year since he's been in the league. His completion percentage has never been over 57.7. He only played THREE games this past season where he didn't throw an interception. His passer rating was below 70.0 in seven games this year.

Do we really have to ignore all of that now, because he won a Super Bowl?

scottyboy
08-01-2008, 04:28 PM
I understand how winning games is important, but i thought we were rating quarterbacks as a whole. The complete package. And one of the most important parts of said package, is their efficiency as a passer.

I just don't like the fact that his interception total has increased every single year since he's been in the league. His completion percentage has never been over 57.7. He only played THREE games this past season where he didn't throw an interception. His passer rating was below 70.0 in seven games this year.

Do we really have to ignore all of that now, because he won a Super Bowl?

He throws INT's, everyone admits that. That's his biggest flaw by far. BUT, with age and maturity, that SHOULD start to cut down. But I'll take his INT a game as long as come winter, he's moving on, and Plax isn't crying at a press conference defending him...

eaglesalltheway
08-01-2008, 04:34 PM
Scotty, as i recall, there weretwo defenders right near Tyree on that play, one of which was right near him , almost under him, as Tyree hit the ground, not exactly what I wold call open. Most of the Eli hater are form the NFC East, but we aren't jealous, we just have seen more of him than all the other people who saw that he won a superbowl and jumped on the bandwagon. Either way, uselesss argument, it is dying down, and we should be done with it. No use getting too many people worked up.

scottyboy
08-01-2008, 04:38 PM
Scotty, as i recall, there weretwo defenders right near Tyree on that play, one of which was right near him , almost under him, as Tyree hit the ground, not exactly what I wold call open. Most of the Eli hater are form the NFC East, but we aren't jealous, we just have seen more of him than all the other people who saw that he won a superbowl and jumped on the bandwagon. Either way, uselesss argument, it is dying down, and we should be done with it. No use getting too many people worked up.

I'm not worked up, I hope nobody is. This is good ol' fashioned QB debates on a football site a week before preseason starts, I'm lovin' it!

Harrison was there, I'll give you that, so it was a one on one. Number 36 was behind the play, looks close at first, but when watching it slowly, he was a good 4 yards behind when Tyree fell(about 2 or 3 when he first made contact with the ball

Gay Ork Wang
08-01-2008, 04:39 PM
Scotty, as i recall, there weretwo defenders right near Tyree on that play, one of which was right near him , almost under him, as Tyree hit the ground, not exactly what I wold call open. Most of the Eli hater are form the NFC East, but we aren't jealous, we just have seen more of him than all the other people who saw that he won a superbowl and jumped on the bandwagon. Either way, uselesss argument, it is dying down, and we should be done with it. No use getting too many people worked up.
well u see, if a guy is open for a moment, he will certainly not be open the whole time. That would be uncovered and wide open. But he was open and ready to make the catch. He was infront of Rodney Harrison and was rdy and open to make the catch. Did he overthrow him? yea but not by alot.

MetSox17
08-01-2008, 04:41 PM
He throws INT's, everyone admits that. That's his biggest flaw by far. BUT, with age and maturity, that SHOULD start to cut down. But I'll take his INT a game as long as come winter, he's moving on, and Plax isn't crying at a press conference defending him...

That's fine. It doesn't make him a Top-10 quarterback though.

eaglesalltheway
08-01-2008, 04:42 PM
I'm not worked up, I hope nobody is. This is good ol' fashioned QB debates on a football site a week before preseason starts, I'm lovin' it!

Harrison was there, I'll give you that, so it was a one on one. Number 36 was behind the play, looks close at first, but when watching it slowly, he was a good 4 yards behind when Tyree fell(about 2 or 3 when he first made contact with the ball

I was putting a pre-emptive end to the argument, in hopes that no one does get worked up. I can tell when people get pissed becausre ***'s fly around like its nobodies business.

CC.SD
08-01-2008, 04:52 PM
I'll hate on Eli all day and all of tomorrow, but to use 3rd and Tyree AGAINST him might just be insanity. Sometimes you just have to throw out all the rules and wing it if you want to win it all.

Burns336
08-01-2008, 05:04 PM
If Romo and Big Ben would switch teams...Big Ben's number would get even better and Romo's would sink

I'm glad you let us all know. My crystal ball is all ****** up and I was having trouble predicting how guys would do in other systems.

Now that you cleared that up for me, I have another question. How would Romo have done managing games on his way to a superbowl victory if he would have swapped with Big Ben?

Gay Ork Wang
08-01-2008, 05:13 PM
I'm glad you let us all know. My crystal ball is all ****** up and I was having trouble predicting how guys would do in other systems.

Now that you cleared that up for me, I have another question. How would Romo have done managing games on his way to a superbowl victory if he would have swapped with Big Ben?
He wouldve muffed the hold on a game winning kick

NY+Giants=NYG
08-01-2008, 05:30 PM
Anyone who watches Eli play knows his stats don't reflect his full performance. I've seen around half his games as a pro. He is easily a top 10 QB.

I'd have him below Manning, Brady and Brees, but not many others.

Also same thing defense the 9ers use with Alex Smith. We had an idiot in John Hufangel as our OC. We made it to the playoffs twice, and then fired him, towards the end of the season, before it ended.

I think he will progress. He has the biggest monkey off his back now, so that's a good thing. If you look at his playoff play he actually is getting better. Panther game he sucked, then in Philly, he played better, and this past year he excelled.

illmatic74
08-01-2008, 06:05 PM
1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Carson Palmer
4. Drew Brees
5. Ben Rothelisberger
6. David Garrard
7. Tony Romo
8. Jeff Garcia
9. Jay Cutler
10. Matt Hasselback

CC.SD
08-01-2008, 06:20 PM
He throws INT's, everyone admits that. That's his biggest flaw by far. BUT, with age and maturity, that SHOULD start to cut down. But I'll take his INT a game as long as come winter, he's moving on, and Plax isn't crying at a press conference defending him...

Oooo, low blow!

1. Peyton
2. Brady
3. Carson
4. Healthy McNabb
5. Breesy
6. Ben
7. Romo
8. Garrard
9. Rivers
10. Cutler

Random notes; Peyton vs. Brady is a tossup at this point, I like Peyton's laser rocket arm.

Carson has no flaws in his game, just flaws in his team.

Ben over Romo easily. Playoffs...Super Bowl vs. Donut Hole. Plus Ben is just plain awesome and definitely hasn't hit his ceiling yet.

Yes, Rivers belongs on this list; he was amazing in 06, started off bad in 07, then picked it up and played great throughout the second half of the season (when Norv Turner's system/Chambers really started clicking) and then stormed through the playoffs without Gates OR LT.

Cutler's in there to cut the bitching off at the pass, but seriously this kid hasn't won games yet. He looks good losing sometimes though.

kalbears13
08-01-2008, 06:31 PM
Brady Quinn has done squat in the NFL and is nothing but unproven hype to this point. Anderson would be long gone if Savage and Crennel thought for a moment that Quinn could get the job done without missing a beat. The fact they retained Anderson likely shows the real talent level of Quinn = very, very average prospect.

The Browns were shopping Anderson but didn't get what they wanted from him. Anderson got the starting job at the beginning of 2007 because of Brady Quinn's holdout. Anderson hasn't really done anything to lose it and it would upset the fans if you got rid of the QB who went 10-6.

CC.SD
08-01-2008, 06:33 PM
The Browns were shopping Anderson but didn't get what they wanted from him. Anderson got the starting job at the beginning of 2007 because of Brady Quinn's holdout. Anderson hasn't really done anything to lose it and it would upset the fans if you got rid of the QB who went 10-6.

I agree, Anderson has a 3 year deal so he can look good this year and then get traded with 2 years remaining/1 year if he gets hurt or Savage wants a do-over.

The Chargers tried this same thing, but they used the franchise tag and got themselves into a pickle.

MetSox17
08-01-2008, 06:38 PM
wasn't clear enough in my original post: i get your point and i realize you weren't suggesting that damon huard was the best qb ever or anything equally ridiculous. i was more arguing against the use of rating as anything other than secondary data in regards to a qb, and the 'you' not meant to mean YOU.

to argue the end thoughts, i'd disagree that a qb who's 300/400 for 2500 yards 10 tds and 15 ints was very efficient at all. he just completed a ton of short passes that may or may not have had any real effect on the game (completing a pass for 3 yards on 3rd and 8 is still good for rating, but utter crap in every way that i'd personally define efficiency, but that's leading into a metrics argument that i have no interest in starting again). (NOTE: i can't remember if those were the original numbers i used, but they should be close enough for argument).

Since it's obvious that we both have different ways of measuring efficiency, i guess all we can do is agree to disagree. You feel i might overrate the quarterback rating tool as a measure of a quarterback's success, and i, to an extent, feel the same for your thoughts. The arguing could be endless, but as far as Eli Manning goes, he just wouldn't be in my Top-10 as a quarterback, one of the reasons being his lack of efficiency (in my eyes) as a passer.

Average OT LB
08-01-2008, 06:59 PM
Oooo, low blow!

1. Peyton
2. Brady
3. Carson
4. Healthy McNabb
5. Breesy
6. Ben
7. Romo
8. Garrard
9. Rivers
10. Cutler

Random notes; Peyton vs. Brady is a tossup at this point, I like Peyton's laser rocket arm.

Carson has no flaws in his game, just flaws in his team.

Ben over Romo easily. Playoffs...Super Bowl vs. Donut Hole. Plus Ben is just plain awesome and definitely hasn't hit his ceiling yet.

Yes, Rivers belongs on this list; he was amazing in 06, started off bad in 07, then picked it up and played great throughout the second half of the season (when Norv Turner's system/Chambers really started clicking) and then stormed through the playoffs without Gates OR LT.

Cutler's in there to cut the bitching off at the pass, but seriously this kid hasn't won games yet. He looks good losing sometimes though.

1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Tony Romo
5. Matth Hasselback
6. Carson Palmer
7. Ben Roethilsberger
8. Donovan McNabb
9. David Garrard
10. Eli Manning
11. Phillip "The Man" Rivers

I hear ya with Rivers. The guy is good, and nobody is talkin about how well he ended the season. I really think that Eli and Rivers are on par with each other, but I gave the 10 spot to Eli because of the super bowl ring, then made the list 11 spots to include Rivers.

GermanSaint
08-02-2008, 03:23 AM
Romo is top notch every year also, Brees has been top notch the past few seasons but obviously he didn't start his career that way...People always want to say they want to see more of Romo yet Brees started progressing late, Romo started half a season and played great, and followed it up with an even better season...It's not a stretch at all to place Romo at #3, but again as he stated its all about preference, Big Ben, Romo, Hass, Carson, Brees could all have a case for #3, but Romo is just as deserving as some of the others.

hmmm romo has one and a half year in a great team , brees has four years with mediocre teams ..... iam not saying its a no brainer , but i want my QB to show good success in a stretch of 3-4 seasons. at the end , iam just a fanboy :)

steelersfan43
08-02-2008, 05:10 AM
I like the top 6, expecially drew at 3..

I have to disagree with phillip the cry baby in the top ten though, He plays like crap, and look at his team.. Best TE and Rb's in the game, Beast oline. Hes a piece of deuce dressed up with amazing players around him.

Shiver
08-04-2008, 02:58 PM
1. Tom Brady

2. Peyton Manning

3. Drew Brees

4. Carson Palmer

5. Ben Roethlisberger

6. Tony Romo

7. Donovan McNabb

8. Matt Hasslebeck

9. David Garrard

10. Philip Rivers

And there is one big absence for which I will certainly take flak: Eli Manning. He could be there, but only if he carries the momentum from the playoff run and continues to build on it. He is still mindnumbingly erratic, completes a low percentage of his passes. I need to see a solid year from him and then maybe I would put him in the 6-8 range, and great year and maybe 4-5. What is ironic though is the same arguement that Giants' fans derided Steelers' fans for using (the Super Bowl winner arguement) is exactly what they will use for Eli Manning.

Flyboy
08-04-2008, 03:03 PM
I'm so surprised to see so many people put Brees over Palmer.

d34ng3l021
08-04-2008, 03:05 PM
I'm so surprised to see so many people put Brees over Palmer.

Dude. Drew Brees is the absolute ****.

Not to mention Palmer has come off of what to him is a disappointing season.

#4000

Gay Ork Wang
08-04-2008, 03:12 PM
1. Tom Brady

2. Peyton Manning

3. Drew Brees

4. Carson Palmer

5. Ben Roethlisberger

6. Tony Romo

7. Donovan McNabb

8. Matt Hasslebeck

9. David Garrard

10. Philip Rivers

And there is one big absence for which I will certainly take flak: Eli Manning. He could be there, but only if he carries the momentum from the playoff run and continues to build on it. He is still mindnumbingly erratic, completes a low percentage of his passes. I need to see a solid year from him and then maybe I would put him in the 6-8 range, and great year and maybe 4-5. What is ironic though is the same arguement that Giants' fans derided Steelers' fans for using (the Super Bowl winner arguement) is exactly what they will use for Eli Manning.
just wait for Eli's Bike accident

Flyboy
08-04-2008, 03:16 PM
Dude. Drew Brees is the absolute ****.

Not to mention Palmer has come off of what to him is a disappointing season.


I'm not disagreeing but merely playing Devil's advocate. As a Saints' fan, I know how much Brees r0cks my s0ckerz but his season was still a bit of a disappointment, though.

d34ng3l021
08-04-2008, 03:45 PM
I'm not disagreeing but merely playing Devil's advocate. As a Saints' fan, I know how much Brees r0cks my s0ckerz but his season was still a bit of a disappointment, though.

Yeah. I figured you would know how much he rocks. But after starting out the season with 1 TD and 9 interceptions, he ended on a high note with 27 TDs and 9 interceptions in 12 games. Not bad.

CC.SD
08-04-2008, 03:48 PM
I like the top 6, expecially drew at 3..

I have to disagree with phillip the cry baby in the top ten though, He plays like crap, and look at his team.. Best TE and Rb's in the game, Beast oline. Hes a piece of deuce dressed up with amazing players around him.

I'm pretty confident you haven't seen him play much, or at all. How could you watch these last playoffs and come away thinking PR sucked? How about when he trucked the Steelers in 06? I won't drag out a list of games where he's played excellently, but in two years of starting he's got a helluva resume. He had a few bad games to start the 07 season, just like the entire freakin Charger team. Occasionally he gets happy feet when his protection breaks down. The last 8 games of 07 he had a 94 rating and 8 wins.

Seriously I don't mean to single out your post, but some of the Rivers hate on this board and on the internet in general is delusional; the guy has a 25-7 record as a starter and got his team to the AFC championship, and almost won it, without Gates or LT. What more do you want coming from a guy entering his 3rd year as a starter?

Who the hell cares if he talked some trash to Cutler? By all accounts the Denver godsend was talking trash too, after putting up 6 points in two games against the Chargers. And seriously, the Indy crowd? You can hear what he's saying on NFL replay. It's "I'll be back." and "Thank you, I appreciate it!"

His vilification is purely ESPN spin, and the fact that he is lumped into the same category as some of the actual criminals in the NFL is really bizarre.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-04-2008, 06:34 PM
As the biggest fan/homer of Jay Cutler I have the following things to say:

1. IMO he is not a top 10 QB yet. He is very good and very young, but he still makes a few boneheaded plays. There are times when he makes a play that is so amazing it takes your breath away, and others where you wonder if he is borderline ********. Often in the same game.

2. The suckage of the Broncos since he has started has nothing to do with him. At all. I did the math last offseason, and it was something like, after Cutler started, the Broncos scored 10 more ppg. A very large jump. The defense, however, started off by looking historically good before slowing way down and giving up like 17 more ppg to end the season(don't remember the exact number here). In his second season, the team sucked period. Run defense was abysmal, pass defense looked decent yardage wise but was one of the worst in terms of comp%, QBR and ypa, the offensive line could not block, runningbacks could not gain consistent yardage and Javon Walker could not stay healthy. Plus, Shanahan thought it might be a good idea to start Daniel Graham, who sucks, over Tony Scheffler, who doesn't suck, for most of the season.

3.As one of the biggest haters of Phillip Rivers, I have the following to say: He's a top 10 QB. He doesn't have a great arm, he has great weapons, but still, there's something about him. In the first half of the season I felt Cutler was the best QB in the division. But after week 10 or 11 I realised Phillip still holds that crown, at least for this year. IMO he will never be one of those gamechanging QBs, but he is definitely going to be consistently good for a long time, a QB any team without a gamechanger would want, and that's worthy of top 10 in my book.

BlindSite
08-04-2008, 07:09 PM
1. Peyton Manning

2. Tom Brady

This top two is interchangeable, so please, no crying.

3. Drew Brees

4. Tony Romo

5. Carson Palmer

6. Matt Hasselbeck

7. Ben Roethlisberger

8. Donovan McNabb

9. Jake Delhomme

10. David Garrard

CC.SD
08-04-2008, 07:12 PM
As the biggest fan/homer of Jay Cutler I have the following things to say:

1. IMO he is not a top 10 QB yet. He is very good and very young, but he still makes a few boneheaded plays. There are times when he makes a play that is so amazing it takes your breath away, and others where you wonder if he is borderline ********. Often in the same game.

2. The suckage of the Broncos since he has started has nothing to do with him. At all. I did the math last offseason, and it was something like, after Cutler started, the Broncos scored 10 more ppg. A very large jump. The defense, however, started off by looking historically good before slowing way down and giving up like 17 more ppg to end the season(don't remember the exact number here). In his second season, the team sucked period. Run defense was abysmal, pass defense looked decent yardage wise but was one of the worst in terms of comp%, QBR and ypa, the offensive line could not block, runningbacks could not gain consistent yardage and Javon Walker could not stay healthy. Plus, Shanahan thought it might be a good idea to start Daniel Graham, who sucks, over Tony Scheffler, who doesn't suck, for most of the season.

3.As one of the biggest haters of Phillip Rivers, I have the following to say: He's a top 10 QB. He doesn't have a great arm, he has great weapons, but still, there's something about him. In the first half of the season I felt Cutler was the best QB in the division. But after week 10 or 11 I realised Phillip still holds that crown, at least for this year. IMO he will never be one of those gamechanging QBs, but he is definitely going to be consistently good for a long time, a QB any team without a gamechanger would want, and that's worthy of top 10 in my book.


I appreciate the Rivers props; it's no secret that I think Cutler will be an elite QB someday soon, although perhaps not as soon as most people think.

I do feel though that Rivers can be a gamechanger; watching him conduct amazing comebacks at Cincy and Denver last year, or witnessing him abruptly turn into a mad bomber against the Titans and Colts, I've had the feeling that he is going to be really special. Maybe that's the definition of homerism, but when you've got a QB who plays without an ACL in the AFC championship, it's tough not to have faith in the guy.

That said, OMG Peyton and Tom please stop already.

Matthew Jones
08-05-2008, 12:15 AM
Top ten starting quarterbacks in the NFL (hear that, Bretty boy?)

1. Tom Brady, Patriots

The league's MVP last year led his team to the Super Bowl in one of the best quarterbacking seasons ever.

2. Peyton Manning, Indianapolis

One of the most consistent players in the league, Manning will also go down as one of the greats.

3. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers

He's got a ring, which is more than I can say about the rest of the quarterbacks on this list.

4. Tony Romo, Cowboys

Romo might have some work to do with his decision making, but he remains one of the league's biggest stars.

5. Drew Brees, Saints

Brees was aided by quite possibly the best offensive line in football last year but is extremely smart and accurate.

6. Carson Palmer, Bengals

Hasn't proven he can do it without Ocho Cinco, Pocahontas, or perform in the playoffs yet, but has all the tools.

7. Matt Hasselbeck, Seahawks

Makes do with what he has, which, aside from an aging Walter Jones, really isn't much, especially at wide receiver.

8. Donovan McNabb, Eagles

McNabb remains one of the league's most talented quarterbacks and rarely makes a big mistake on the field.

9. Jay Cutler, Broncos

Has been improving each year and all he needs to do now is take the Broncos deep into the playoffs.

10. Jeff Garcia, Buccaneers

Gets the edge here because he's been able to join up with new teams all the time and keep winning games.

Honorable mention:

David Garrard, Jaguars

Was very efficient last year, but doesn't have a large body of work and needs to make more big plays.

Brett Favre, Packers

Obviously couldn't be included because he's not a starter, but one of the best of all time deserves some mention.

Eli Manning, Giants

Deserves mention for outstanding playoffs, but reality is that he was one of the worst in the regular season.

smittyjs
08-05-2008, 12:25 AM
As the biggest fan/homer of Jay Cutler I have the following things to say:

1. IMO he is not a top 10 QB yet. He is very good and very young, but he still makes a few boneheaded plays. There are times when he makes a play that is so amazing it takes your breath away, and others where you wonder if he is borderline ********. Often in the same game.

2. The suckage of the Broncos since he has started has nothing to do with him. At all. I did the math last offseason, and it was something like, after Cutler started, the Broncos scored 10 more ppg. A very large jump. The defense, however, started off by looking historically good before slowing way down and giving up like 17 more ppg to end the season(don't remember the exact number here). In his second season, the team sucked period. Run defense was abysmal, pass defense looked decent yardage wise but was one of the worst in terms of comp%, QBR and ypa, the offensive line could not block, runningbacks could not gain consistent yardage and Javon Walker could not stay healthy. Plus, Shanahan thought it might be a good idea to start Daniel Graham, who sucks, over Tony Scheffler, who doesn't suck, for most of the season.

3.As one of the biggest haters of Phillip Rivers, I have the following to say: He's a top 10 QB. He doesn't have a great arm, he has great weapons, but still, there's something about him. In the first half of the season I felt Cutler was the best QB in the division. But after week 10 or 11 I realised Phillip still holds that crown, at least for this year. IMO he will never be one of those gamechanging QBs, but he is definitely going to be consistently good for a long time, a QB any team without a gamechanger would want, and that's worthy of top 10 in my book.Lol i would have to bring my name up to ;)

kalbears13
08-05-2008, 12:57 AM
just wait for Eli's Bike accident

That's only for AFC North players.

BlindSite
08-05-2008, 01:14 AM
Top ten starting quarterbacks in the NFL (hear that, Bretty boy?)

1. Tom Brady, Patriots

The league's MVP last year led his team to the Super Bowl in one of the best quarterbacking seasons ever.

2. Peyton Manning, Indianapolis

One of the most consistent players in the league, Manning will also go down as one of the greats.

3. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers

He's got a ring, which is more than I can say about the rest of the quarterbacks on this list.

4. Tony Romo, Cowboys

Romo might have some work to do with his decision making, but he remains one of the league's biggest stars.

5. Drew Brees, Saints

Brees was aided by quite possibly the best offensive line in football last year but is extremely smart and accurate.

6. Carson Palmer, Bengals

Hasn't proven he can do it without Ocho Cinco, Pocahontas, or perform in the playoffs yet, but has all the tools.

7. Matt Hasselbeck, Seahawks

Makes do with what he has, which, aside from an aging Walter Jones, really isn't much, especially at wide receiver.

8. Donovan McNabb, Eagles

McNabb remains one of the league's most talented quarterbacks and rarely makes a big mistake on the field.

9. Jay Cutler, Broncos

Has been improving each year and all he needs to do now is take the Broncos deep into the playoffs.

10. Jeff Garcia, Buccaneers

Gets the edge here because he's been able to join up with new teams all the time and keep winning games.

Honorable mention:

David Garrard, Jaguars

Was very efficient last year, but doesn't have a large body of work and needs to make more big plays.

Brett Favre, Packers

Obviously couldn't be included because he's not a starter, but one of the best of all time deserves some mention.

Eli Manning, Giants

Deserves mention for outstanding playoffs, but reality is that he was one of the worst in the regular season.

Jeff Garcia is the definition of system QB and cannot play unless he's in a tailor made system with a good supporting offensive line and running game around him.

Jay Cutler is improving but he's played in 21 games and has only 5 more TDs than turnovers. I like the 62% completion rate, but then again he's only won 9 out of 21 games.

You might think he needs to only lead them deep in the playoffs. He needs to actually have a winning season first. The kid has a LOT of talent and I think not this season but the next he'll be QB three with the Manning and Brady probowl AFC team. However, right now, he is not a top 10 QB.

I want to stress that I think he will be brilliant, in time, but right now he's not a top ten QB

Mr. Stiller
08-05-2008, 02:32 AM
Jeff Garcia is the definition of system QB and cannot play unless he's in a tailor made system with a good supporting offensive line and running game around him.

B

Joe Montana, Steve Young?

Mr. Stiller
08-05-2008, 02:37 AM
He throws INT's, everyone admits that. That's his biggest flaw by far. BUT, with age and maturity, that SHOULD start to cut down. But I'll take his INT a game as long as come winter, he's moving on, and Plax isn't crying at a press conference defending him...

Scotty, The only thing is...

1) Eli hasn't been a great QB over a course of a season. He had a great playoffs, in fact, almost flawless. He won games when it counted. But at the same time. What good is it to be that good in the playoffs if he doesn't get them to the playoffs because he's erratic?
2) You're not arguing that he can struggle with efficiency. Maybe then he's not ready to step into the top 10 category? You say he'll get better with Age/Maturity. Maybe if/when that happens you'd have more of an argument?


As for Me, I think Hasselbeck above Roethlisberger is insane. I think Ben gets knocked for his first season...

Look at his playoff run in 2005, people say the team carried him.. No. Ben was the driving offensive force in 2005 playoffs.

Also, everyone should've seen (If they watched any game) that Roethlisberger Had one of the best seasons as far as QB's go with 0 OL. Our OL was one of the worst 3 in the league. he had a near 3:1 TD:INT ratio, incredible passer rating.

But they'd also see his ability to avoid the sack, and his ability to spread the ball out to everyone.

With the addition of Mendenhall, Sweed, Boyd, and possibly Latsko, he could utilize 4 new names this season.

And as far as I'm hearing Dallas Baker looks like he could fight for the immediate #3 spot on Steelers roster as he's looking nearly uncoverable in camp.

BlindSite
08-05-2008, 04:16 AM
Joe Montana, Steve Young?

All won games on their own merits, Garcia is not a top ten QB, otherwise he wouldn't have gone from starter for 5 years to being a backup journeyman who couldn't do anything in another system for the next 3.

Mr. Stiller
08-05-2008, 08:39 AM
All won games on their own merits, Garcia is not a top ten QB, otherwise he wouldn't have gone from starter for 5 years to being a backup journeyman who couldn't do anything in another system for the next 3.

Did they not play in a system tailored to their skills?

Did Montana not have Rice and Young Owens/Stokes?

Seems to me since Garcia didn't get a full career in the 49ers WCO that he could have been up there, but they released him.

If The 49ers weren't stupid enough to think that Tim Rattay was better than Jeff Garcia they might not have gone through so much mediocrity.

and the fact that.. You can't say for certain that Young/Montana wouldn't have been terrible in other systems. They both had the benefit of playing their entire career in SF.

eaglesalltheway
08-05-2008, 08:48 AM
Actually Montana played in Kansas City, not much heard from him there, that should say a lot, even though he was injured and at the end of his career. The meer fact that almost no one knows he went to KC should say something about the argument that he is a system QB. That doesn't take anything away from what he did, he is still one fo the best QBs the NFL has ever seen, but he just worked better with Walsh and his WCO.

stephenson86
08-05-2008, 11:04 AM
no colt brennan or jordyzzz???? suck ass list

scottyboy
08-05-2008, 11:42 AM
Mr. Stiller. I understand your 2nd point, BUT your first point is moot for as eratic as Eli's been in the regular season, he's missed the playoffs ONCE. His rookie season where he started only the 2nd half of the season

ALD
08-05-2008, 02:20 PM
Eli's problem isn't that he goes form all-pro to bust from game to game, it's that he would force the ball sometimes and make horrible mistakes. Even in his bad games he typically looks good most of the time but has a few throws that are just painful to watch. I'm not going to argue that he should be ranked higher, although I think he's a better QB than Romo in terms of what I like to see from QBs, leadership, clutch performance, really flourishing in the hurry up offense.

ALD
08-05-2008, 02:23 PM
Scotty, The only thing is...

1) Eli hasn't been a great QB over a course of a season. He had a great playoffs, in fact, almost flawless. He won games when it counted. But at the same time. What good is it to be that good in the playoffs if he doesn't get them to the playoffs because he's erratic?

It's not like Eli's taken the giants to the playoffs 3 straight years, every year outside of his rookie season, or been clutch in the last two minutes of halves going all the way back to his rookie season. :rolleyes:

ALD
08-05-2008, 02:25 PM
Actually Montana played in Kansas City, not much heard from him there, that should say a lot, even though he was injured and at the end of his career. The meer fact that almost no one knows he went to KC should say something about the argument that he is a system QB. That doesn't take anything away from what he did, he is still one fo the best QBs the NFL has ever seen, but he just worked better with Walsh and his WCO.

He was so terrible in KC that he took them to the playoffs his first season there.

Brent
08-05-2008, 05:13 PM
If you seriously think that Montana was a system QB, you're out of your mind. If it was the system then Steve ******* DeBerg would have been a Hall of Famer.

BlindSite
08-05-2008, 07:11 PM
i don't disagree with the analysis, but that's an unbelievably bad argument with little to no relevance.

It has relevance when people are saying he's a top 10 QB imo.

He's on his way to being an effective starter but he's not yet risen to the heights of the game.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-05-2008, 07:19 PM
Eli's problem isn't that he goes form all-pro to bust from game to game, it's that he would force the ball sometimes and make horrible mistakes. Even in his bad games he typically looks good most of the time but has a few throws that are just painful to watch. I'm not going to argue that he should be ranked higher, although I think he's a better QB than Romo in terms of what I like to see from QBs, leadership, clutch performance, really flourishing in the hurry up offense.

It also hurts him that we had 2 OCs, one got fired towards the end of the season. Last year was his first full year under Gilbride. Also, during Eli's tenure, Plax, Toomer and Shockey dropped alot of passes. I think we ranked top 3 or 5 in dropped passes so that hurts him. Also, yeah factor in his fault too, and that explains his poor play.

Also, wrong routes ran by players too. Shockey and Plax both were at fault on Eli's 4 int day against the Vikings. 2 of the ints were both of their faults, but that's never reported, nor should be. Now that Gilbride is here to stay hopefully he can now get comfortable in this offense. No more stupid Hufangel! We were up 21-0 or something on the Titans, and the fool decides he wants to air it out! God, I hated him with a passion!

ALD
08-05-2008, 07:25 PM
It also hurts him that we had 2 OCs, one got fired towards the end of the season. Last year was his first full year under Gilbride. Also, during Eli's tenure, Plax, Toomer and Shockey dropped alot of passes. I think we ranked top 3 or 5 in dropped passes so that hurts him. Also, yeah factor in his fault too, and that explains his poor play.

Also, wrong routes ran by players too. Shockey and Plax both were at fault on Eli's 4 int day against the Vikings. 2 of the ints were both of their faults, but that's never reported, nor should be. Now that Gilbride is here to stay hopefully he can now get comfortable in this offense. No more stupid Hufangel! We were up 21-0 or something on the Titans, and the fool decides he wants to air it out! God, I hated him with a passion!

First of all I don't consider Hufnagel an OC, he was probably a worse OC than Tim Lewis was a DC, if that's possible. But yes the inconsistent play calling that really didn't benefit eli was a huge reason for his "inconsistency"

RaiderNation
08-05-2008, 07:32 PM
1 Peyton Manning
2 Tom Brady
3 Drew Brees
4 Bret Favre
5 Carson Palmer
6 Tony Romo
7 Ben Roethlisberger
8 Donovan McNabb
9 Matt Hasselbeck
10 Eli Manning

NY+Giants=NYG
08-05-2008, 09:25 PM
First of all I don't consider Hufnagel an OC, he was probably a worse OC than Tim Lewis was a DC, if that's possible. But yes the inconsistent play calling that really didn't benefit eli was a huge reason for his "inconsistency"

You'll be suprised how many people comment on Eli without knows the circumstances behind it all. I wonder where is good ole Huffy. I think he got booted to the Canadian league as a HC if I remember correctly.

BlindSite
08-05-2008, 09:37 PM
please explain how in the hell denver's run defense and coaching have any relevance when discussing jay cutler.

There's no winning with some people is there.

I've already stated he's well on his way, he just isn't in the top ten yet.

A lot of good quarterbacks can overcome a poor defense. I don't think if Jay Cutler was the best in the NFL even that Denver would've had a winning season, but they may have done better than they did in some games. Its not a perfect argument but wins do matter when talking about QBs.

ALD
08-05-2008, 10:42 PM
You'll be suprised how many people comment on Eli without knows the circumstances behind it all. I wonder where is good ole Huffy. I think he got booted to the Canadian league as a HC if I remember correctly.

He should be lying next to Hoffa for what he did to this team while OC.

yo123
08-05-2008, 11:11 PM
please explain how in the hell denver's run defense and coaching have any relevance when discussing jay cutler.



Becuz QB's win gamez! Look at Vince Youngz all he duz is win gamezzzzz!!!!!1

BlindSite
08-05-2008, 11:48 PM
i never suggested cutler was top ten and agreed that he's not there yet. however, suggesting that he's not simply because the team around him is garbage is absolutely silly. it's not even a relevant side-point. that's like suggesting dan marino is a garbage qb historically simply because he never had a 1000 yard runner during his prime.

I didn't say that was the only reason, I also cited the fact that he's turnover prone and is realistically inexperienced... You ignored those points.

BlindSite
08-06-2008, 12:51 AM
No worries

The Juice
08-06-2008, 09:00 AM
i never suggested cutler was top ten and agreed that he's not there yet. however, suggesting that he's not simply because the team around him is garbage is absolutely silly. it's not even a relevant side-point. that's like suggesting dan marino is a garbage qb historically simply because he never had a 1000 yard runner during his prime.

I think it's more like saying Marino isn't a top 5 QB historically because he never won a Super Bowl...

Bateman
08-06-2008, 10:29 AM
which is still a bad argument. i don't see why this needs to be reiterated.

I think there is something to be said for winning even though football is a team sport. After all, many people would say Dan Marino was the most prolific passer of all-time yet not many would say he was the greatest quarterback of all-time.

Addict
08-06-2008, 11:55 AM
I think there is something to be said for winning even though football is a team sport. After all, many people would say Dan Marino was the most prolific passer of all-time yet not many would say he was the greatest quarterback of all-time.

that's why you can't hold it against him. It's just that simple. Football teams win superbowls. No QB in history could have done it on his own.

As for my top 10 QB's

1. Tom Brady
1a. Peyton Manning
3. Carson Palmer
4. Drew Brees
5. Tony Romo
6. Ben Roethlisberger
7. Matt Hasselbeck
8. Donovan McNabb
9. Eli Manning
10. Phillip Rivers

I didn't put Favre in because I don't know what he's gonna do and until he does I don't know where the hell to put him. Probably right behind Big Ben.

PocketFullOfGloves
08-06-2008, 02:09 PM
i don't think you can say he wasn't purely because he never played for the 49ers or because his team lacked the talent needed to win the super bowl.

Obviously not but it's another part of the equation. A player who "wins" will always be regarded as better than he would be if he was a loser. It's just another part of the equation. I can guarantee we'd see Cutler on a lot more top 10 lists if the Broncos did some damage in the playoffs. Heck, Eli Manning probably wasn't on many top 10 lists until after the playoffs.

scottyboy
08-06-2008, 03:58 PM
which is still ludicrous. a quarterback should absolutely not be penalized for playing with a worthless defense or given bonus points for playing with a great defense.

the "he's a winner" line is grade a certified bullcrap regurgitated by people who need ESPN to spoon-feed them an opinion because they can't actually have an original thought. that's not to suggest that applies to you personally, as much as any of the people you alluded to in the "regarded by" bit.

Agreed, but a QB also can't be faulted when playing with a ****** supporting cast, terrible OC, bad OL etc...(not Eli, just examples and situations)

I call Eli a winner because of what I see him do. He doesn't rely on a superb defense to score for him, or a incredible return man to rack up points either. It's tough to define what truely makes a "good QB". We know the greats obviously: Montana, Young, Unitas, Teel etc. etc; but the good ones are tougher to grade. Most are in weird situations with good stats with a horrendous D, or piss poor stats who wins, or has a tremendous D or running game...

BlindSite
08-06-2008, 05:59 PM
Eli has done more than enough to be considered a winner, the superbowl drives in the 4th alone, that last minute TD in denver, there's a few. Favre is the master of the fourth quarter drive, dinking, dunking and then airing it out for the big score.

While NJX has a point that saying wins for a QB don't matter because no QB can fix a team's defense or whatever, there's still the fact of the matter that there's a select group of quarterbacks who can calmly lead their teams time and time again down the field with perfect play in the fourth quarter when the team needs a score.

Tom Brady did it in the superbowls, Eli Manning has done it more than once, Brett Favre is known for it. Players whom, with the right tools around them more often than not will get the job done when needed.

I think this attribute is a bit of a tie breaker in rankings anyway. Its what puts Brady above Manning, if nothing else.

Dam8610
08-06-2008, 07:08 PM
I think this attribute is a bit of a tie breaker in rankings anyway. Its what puts Brady above Manning, if nothing else.

Odd, I remember many a time where Peyton Manning has led game winning drives, including the ONLY time in the Colts-Patriots playoff rivalry where there has been a game winning drive, a game in which I also remember Tom Brady throwing a game clinching INT to Marlin Jackson. Really, if Brady had Vanderjagt in his first 5 years, and Manning had Vinatieri, this wouldn't be a discussion.

CC.SD
08-06-2008, 07:29 PM
Odd, I remember many a time where Peyton Manning has led game winning drives, including the ONLY time in the Colts-Patriots playoff rivalry where there has been a game winning drive, a game in which I also remember Tom Brady throwing a game clinching INT to Marlin Jackson. Really, if Brady had Vanderjagt in his first 5 years, and Manning had Vinatieri, this wouldn't be a discussion.

This post is a whole 'nutha thread. Perhaps a definitive Brady v. Manning thread?

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-06-2008, 07:40 PM
Eli has done more than enough to be considered a winner, the superbowl drives in the 4th alone, that last minute TD in denver, there's a few. Favre is the master of the fourth quarter drive, dinking, dunking and then airing it out for the big score.

While NJX has a point that saying wins for a QB don't matter because no QB can fix a team's defense or whatever, there's still the fact of the matter that there's a select group of quarterbacks who can calmly lead their teams time and time again down the field with perfect play in the fourth quarter when the team needs a score.

Tom Brady did it in the superbowls, Eli Manning has done it more than once, Brett Favre is known for it. Players whom, with the right tools around them more often than not will get the job done when needed.

I think this attribute is a bit of a tie breaker in rankings anyway. Its what puts Brady above Manning, if nothing else.

Also Jay Cutler has done this as well. Just so you know.

Dam8610
08-06-2008, 08:00 PM
This post is a whole 'nutha thread. Perhaps a definitive Brady v. Manning thread?

Meh, it is top 10 QBs, and I am talking about 2 of them. Regardless, I'm sick of that discussion because it goes nowhere, I just don't like to see people try to justify their arguments with inaccurate or incorrect information.

Burns336
08-06-2008, 08:32 PM
which is still ludicrous. a quarterback should absolutely not be penalized for playing with a worthless defense or given bonus points for playing with a great defense.

the "he's a winner" line is grade a certified bullcrap regurgitated by people who need ESPN to spoon-feed them an opinion because they can't actually have an original thought. that's not to suggest that applies to you personally, as much as any of the people you alluded to in the "regarded by" bit.

Wait.... You mean Vince Young isn't a good QB?


OMG but he winzz gamezz!?!

Burns336
08-06-2008, 08:34 PM
Eli has done more than enough to be considered a winner, the superbowl drives in the 4th alone, that last minute TD in denver, there's a few. Favre is the master of the fourth quarter drive, dinking, dunking and then airing it out for the big score.

While NJX has a point that saying wins for a QB don't matter because no QB can fix a team's defense or whatever, there's still the fact of the matter that there's a select group of quarterbacks who can calmly lead their teams time and time again down the field with perfect play in the fourth quarter when the team needs a score.

Tom Brady did it in the superbowls, Eli Manning has done it more than once, Brett Favre is known for it. Players whom, with the right tools around them more often than not will get the job done when needed.

I think this attribute is a bit of a tie breaker in rankings anyway. Its what puts Brady above Manning, if nothing else.

Ha, I thought you wrote Favre is the master of 4th quarter drives. Then I realized you really did. Then I realized you meant Elway. Then I realized no, you really meant Brett "I'm gonna throw the game sealing pick" Favre.

Average OT LB
08-06-2008, 08:34 PM
which is still ludicrous. a quarterback should absolutely not be penalized for playing with a worthless defense or given bonus points for playing with a great defense.

the "he's a winner" line is grade a certified bullcrap regurgitated by people who need ESPN to spoon-feed them an opinion because they can't actually have an original thought. that's not to suggest that applies to you personally, as much as any of the people you alluded to in the "regarded by" bit.

I believe that is true for a season, but not for a long period of time. For example, with marino, he was unable to win a super bowl his entire career. I believe at that point, the odds of constantly having a bad team around you, starts to look more like its the quarterback that is to blame.

Now I believe the player that began this debate was cutler. It is my opinion that Cutler's career has been too short to overlook labeling him 'a winner', thus making its usage ridiculous when trying to prove he is not a top 10 player. There is enough statistical data to use to prove cutler is not yet a top 10 qb, there is no reason to pile on things like, 'hes not a winner'... thats silly.

Bruce
08-06-2008, 08:37 PM
How is Palmer better than Brees? Brees does more with less and has actually won a playoff game.

Burns336
08-06-2008, 08:45 PM
How is Palmer better than Brees? Brees does more with less and has actually won a playoff game.

Blasphemy. Palmer is god. Basically a tie with Romo for overall godliness.

BlindSite
08-06-2008, 09:34 PM
Ha, I thought you wrote Favre is the master of 4th quarter drives. Then I realized you really did. Then I realized you meant Elway. Then I realized no, you really meant Brett "I'm gonna throw the game sealing pick" Favre.

I was referring to active QBs, besides I'm too young to have ever seen Elway play, I've seen a couple of games on DVDs though so I don't comment unless I know the player I'm talking about.

OzTitan
08-06-2008, 09:52 PM
Wait.... You mean Vince Young isn't a good QB?


OMG but he winzz gamezz!?!

VY made a name for himself in college coming up big at the end of games when it mattered, and in his rookie season he translated that to the NFL to a large degree, at least relative to the increased difficulties going to the NFL. I believe there was a point in time where his 4th Q rating was over 100 in his rookie season. 07 wasn't as prevalent in this area for Vince but then there were other factors at play last season too. He did live up to his primetime image last season though, although everyone who watched knows why that didn't translate into a win in Denver - Vince certainly tried. If his WR's tried too he probably racked up over 400y passing and a few TD's that game.

IMO, the "VY just wins games" mantra is a product of the media not giving the Titans as a whole enough credit during VY's rookie season for the come-from-behind wins etc which stems from the "Nashvile has a team!?!?" attitude at ESPN etc, but it shouldn't diminish the impact he had, and has, on the Titans either. Critics like to bring it up as a joke and perhaps people who think the fact VY has a winning record is his own doing or even largely his own doing deserve to be mocked, but there is some truth behind it, just not as much as some used to make out (keywords there are 'used to', i.e., making fun of it is pretty dated now).

Burns336
08-06-2008, 09:55 PM
VY made a name for himself in college coming up big at the end of games when it mattered, and in his rookie season he translated that to the NFL to a large degree, at least relative to the increased difficulties going to the NFL. I believe there was a point in time where his 4th Q rating was over 100 in his rookie season. 07 wasn't as prevalent in this area for Vince but then there were other factors at play last season too. He did live up to his primetime image last season though, although everyone who watched knows why that didn't translate into a win in Denver - Vince certainly tried. If his WR's tried too he probably racked up over 400y passing and a few TD's that game.

IMO, the "VY just wins games" mantra is a product of the media not giving the Titans as a whole enough credit during VY's rookie season for the come-from-behind wins etc which stems from the "Nashvile has a team!?!?" attitude at ESPN etc, but it shouldn't diminish the impact he had, and has had, on the Titans either. Critics like to bring it up as a joke and perhaps people who think the fact VY has a winning record is his own doing or even largely his own doing deserve to be mocked, but there is some truth behind it, just not as much as some used to make out (keywords there are 'used to', i.e., making fun of it is pretty dated).

VY sucks. The Titans probably run the most dumbed down offense in the league next to the 49ers and he still can't handle it. Run - run- bootleg - punt :: Repeat.

Just wait until he has another 9TD 12 INT season and you'll come around.

OzTitan
08-06-2008, 09:57 PM
Come around from what? I didn't mention anything about 08 or beyond at all, I was talking about 06 and 07, and his college days.

Burns336
08-06-2008, 10:02 PM
Come around from what? I didn't mention anything about 08 or beyond at all, I was talking about 06 and 07, and his college days.

come around and realize he is not the answer. Sell High! Get rid of him while some people are still picturing him in his Texas uniform.

OzTitan
08-06-2008, 10:03 PM
Ok, I'll pass that onto to Mike Reinfeldt for you....

Brent
08-06-2008, 10:06 PM
next to the 49ers
That is because Jim Hostler was a dumbass who shouldn't have had a job.

OzTitan
08-06-2008, 10:14 PM
That is because Jim Hostler was a dumbass who shouldn't have had a job.

Ditto Norm Chow :)

I wouldn't say "dumbass", but I think he was under the illusion the Titans drafted Matt Leinart and not Vince Young. It wasn't a good pairing and I'm not really sure Chow is cut out to be an NFL OC with his ideal tools anyway. The good thing is Mike Heimerdinger is a proven X's and O's guy with a QB a lot like Vince, so if this doesn't work, then nothing probably will. Although that likely won't be known in the first season.

smittyjs
08-06-2008, 10:34 PM
VY sucks. The Titans probably run the most dumbed down offense in the league next to the 49ers and he still can't handle it. Run - run- bootleg - punt :: Repeat.

Just wait until he has another 9TD 12 INT season and you'll come around.
We rarely ran the bootleg last season, which this year we will see more of in this offense, i don't see too many second year Qb's doing much better with the kinds of weapons he had last year...

ALD
08-06-2008, 10:43 PM
That is because Jim Hostler was a dumbass who shouldn't have had a job.

Hostler was Bill Walsh compared to Hufnagel.

Bengalsrocket
08-06-2008, 10:46 PM
How is Palmer better than Brees? Brees does more with less and has actually won a playoff game.

I think Brees so far has been better than Palmer (though, not by a whole lot). But I like Palmer's style (he's like the most fundamentally sound QB in the league imo) and as a bengals fan I obviously believe Palmer will develop into a better QB though.

I purposely avoided posting in this thread because I am a big Palmer fan and I don't want to get into a homer debate of where he stands - truthfully anywhere from 3-7 seems fair to me though, depending on what you look for in a QB.

Brent
08-06-2008, 10:49 PM
Hostler was Bill Walsh compared to Hufnagel.
Hostler was so bad, I would rather have let the CPU from Madden call plays instead of him.

BlindSite
08-06-2008, 11:42 PM
I think Brees so far has been better than Palmer (though, not by a whole lot). But I like Palmer's style (he's like the most fundamentally sound QB in the league imo) and as a bengals fan I obviously believe Palmer will develop into a better QB though.

I purposely avoided posting in this thread because I am a big Palmer fan and I don't want to get into a homer debate of where he stands - truthfully anywhere from 3-7 seems fair to me though, depending on what you look for in a QB.

I'm more for grouping quarterbacks into tiers than 1 to whatever rankings also.

Bengalsrocket
08-07-2008, 03:37 AM
I'm more for grouping quarterbacks into tiers than 1 to whatever rankings also.

Yah, the tier system seems to work pretty well. You get to acknowledge that A) Both QB's aren't in the exact same situation in regards to Surrounding team + coaches. and B) You can lump up guys who are still developing - like our current contrast between brees and palmer; both guys will develop to be even better than they currently are thus a tiered system would acknowledge that they're not done developing.

ALD
08-07-2008, 11:27 AM
Hostler was so bad, I would rather have let the CPU from Madden call plays instead of him.

Tim Lewis is the worst DC I've ever seen in my life, Hufnagel was an even worse OC, he was so bad I refused to even speak his name until after we won the superbowl.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-07-2008, 11:29 AM
Tim Lewis is the worst DC I've ever seen in my life, Hufnagel was an even worse OC, he was so bad I refused to even speak his name until after we won the superbowl.

People don't realize we had two idiots who came on this staff originally with Coughlin. Only when we fired both fools, and replaced them with Gilbride, and Spags, did the team take off. Eli has played better under Gilbride then with Hufagnel. It's no coincidence Huffy is a HC in the Canadian league, and not in the NFL anymore either.

Brent
08-07-2008, 11:36 AM
Hostler would be like, "Hmm, 3rd and 5... Well, Vernon was open the last 10 pass plays but I think running it would be best!" [insert failure here]

Dirk360
08-22-2008, 04:14 PM
Hey fellas, I am relatively new to the sport of football and i know a few teams and players but I was wondering if you guys could name the top 10 guys at the position of Quarterback. If you could detail their strengths and weaknesses then that would be nice.

Currently the only qbs that I know are Drew Brees and Tony Romo (I live in Lousiana lol).

P-L
08-22-2008, 04:15 PM
You might want to start with Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. They are everyone's top two QB's.

eaglesfan_45
08-22-2008, 04:27 PM
McNabb is top 10 #'s 3-7 are interchangeable really, Romo, Bree, Palmer and Rothlesberger are pretty much even. McNabb may have been forgotten due to injuries but when healthy he's as good as anyone, he was #3 at one point if not top 2 when the Eagles were on their NFC East/ Championship run.

BeerBaron
08-22-2008, 04:32 PM
Aye, can't go wrong with Brady and Peyton at the very top.

After them, you can go to the very solid guys who are a level below them. There you would have guys like Carson Palmer, Tony Romo, Phillip Rivers, Brees and Matt Hasselbeck. Even the guys here could be questioned a little if you wanted to nitpick...

Then I would put guys who always have the potential to be great but need to avoid injuries or prove themselves a little more or be more consistent. Guys like Eli, McNabb, David Garrard, Favre (since hes gotta be going downhill...hes got nowhere else to go...) Vince Young, Jay Cutler, Marc Bulger... Probably some others

After that its all based on potential and such. One safe bet though is whoever the Bears have starting is likely in the very bottom, lol

eaglesfan_45
08-22-2008, 04:35 PM
You know this is just going to turn into a Brady v.s. Manning debate, how Eli isn't a top 10 QB and how Carson Palmer is on the decline thread.

Dirk360
08-22-2008, 05:17 PM
Wow, so Brees and Romo are actually among the best qbs in the league?

d34ng3l021
08-22-2008, 05:23 PM
I made a topic a while back about my top 10 quarterbacks in the NFL. I dont know if it will help, but here is my post:

1. Peyton Manning
The debate for number 1 could go on for ages (number 1 all time?), but for right now, I am picking the guy who has had 9 consecutive 4000+ yard seasons, averages 30.6 TDs a year (including his rookie season), gets sacked an average of 19 times a season, has lost 17 fumbles in his career, and is the unquestionable leader of a very good Colts team that contends every year. A huge knock on him is his post season performance, but I think he is slowly getting over that and will soon be able to dominate in the post season as well. His post season performance could be the reason to demote him to number 2 though. I also prefer his 49 TD season over Brady's 50 TD season. Manning actually had to throw that many TDs to get over his defense. Brady was just crushing teams. Also, Manning had 497 attempts to Brady's 578 attempts and 15 full games played to Brady's 16 full games.

2. Tom Brady
Tom Brady might as well be 1b or 1 itself. After being known as a perennial winner and a guy who is chasing Montana, Brady let his critics know just how good he is with an arsenal that could be compared to Manning's. What Brady lacks in the regular season, he more than makes it up in the post season. With a terrific record in the post season, Brady is known to be clutch and has come through when it has mattered most (see his SB MVPs). After the Patriots got Randy Moss, Brady blew up statistically and could easily overtake Manning as regular season QB king. The debate between Peyton Manning and Tom Brady is one for the ages. These 2 great QBs still have 5-6 years left and their rivalry should continue to bud. We are witnessing something special.

3. Drew Brees
The battle for number 3 is really where controversy begins. With so many candidates (Palmer, Romo, Roethlisberger, Hasselbeck), the choice is very difficult. It can completely come down to personal preference. For me though, I will have to pick the rival QB Drew Brees. This guy is a complete stud. He partially deserved the MVP in 2006 when he almost single handedly took a poor Saints team to the NFCCG. The reason for the Saints turn around is not Reggie Bush or Marques Colston. It may be the hiring of Sean Payton. It definitely is the play of Drew Brees. We have seen him mature as a player from a guy who wasnt even starting to a Pro Bowl QB to an elite QB. Here is a guy who was chasing Marino's 5084 yard record in 2006 until he tailed off in his last 3 games. This previous season, Drew Brees started out the season with 1 TD and 9 interceptions and 929 yards (which would lead to 3700 yards) in his first 4 games. He finished the season with: 28 TDs 18 interceptions, and 4400 yards. He finished the season with 27 TDs and 9 interceptions and nearly 300 yards a game. Brees is only 29 and with the beating he takes, he will most likely play for a while. I can see him establishing himself as the number 3 QB in everyone's mind soon enough.

4. Tony Romo
Now heres a great story. Tony is undrafted, sits on the bench for 3 years and then all of a sudden, he is the star QB of the Dallas Cowboys and is getting girls like Carrie Underwood and Jessica Simpson. Truly night and day. In his first 10 starts, he goes to the pro bowl and throws 19 TDs in 10 starts. Romo outdoes himself in his first full season starting by throwing 36 TDs and leading the Cowboys to a 13-3 record. With more playing time, he will be able to lower his interception numbers, and he is entering his 3rd season starting which should be able to lead to some great numbers. He is a very good player with great pocket presence and knows how to get TO the ball.

5. Carson Palmer
Deciding between Palmer and Roethlisberger is very difficult. I am going to go with Carson Palmer because he has had more years of actually leading a team as oppose to Roethlisberger who was just asked to manage a team. After winning the Heisman and being drafted number 1 overall, Palmer has not disappointed. He broke out in his 3rd season with 3700 yards, 67% completion rate, and 32 TDs with 12 interceptions. After that, he is basically a guarantee for 4000 yards and 25+ TDs. Along with the best deep ball in the NFL, Palmer displays great accuracy. I kind of feel bad for him because his team seems to continue to disappoint despite his excellent play.
6. Ben Roethlisberger
This guy looks to be great. He leads his team to a 13-0 record while he is a starter in the regular season by tossing 17 TDs and 11 interceptions and having an astounding QB rating of 98.1 as a rookie. From then on, expectations were set high, and Big Ben has not disappointed. Big Ben and the Steelers went on to win the Superbowl as a 6th seed in his 2nd season. His 3rd season was below par, but after you get into an accident like he did, I would not be too surprised. His last season was the most impressive in my opinion. Big Ben showed that he is capable of being the main playmaker on the Steelers offense by tossing 32 TDs to 11 interceptions. And he only turned 26 a couple months ago. I really like his skill set and his pocket awareness in awesome. I expect big things out of him in the future.

7. Matt Hasselbeck
This guy is truly very underrated. He doesn’t possess the great physical tools of Palmer or Manning, but he still finds a way to get it done. He doesn’t have a great arm, nor is he very athletic or anything, but last year he managed to throw for 4000 yards and 28 TDs. With the decline of Shaun Alexander, Matt Hasselbeck really turned on the jets and showed that he has the capability of being a franchise QB. He does all this with whom at WR? Nate Burleson? Deion Branch? I don’t even know. Matt Hasselbeck is a very reliable and smart QB who will give you around 3500 yards with 25ish TDs in a year.

8. Eli Manning
Placing Eli Manning in this list is very difficult I think. He is the epitome of inconsistency. One game he played like an All-Pro by placing the ball perfectly all over the place. Then for a couple games he is seems like he is a bust by making terrible decisions. The only reason I have him in here is because of his consistent play off stretch and maybe it might carry over. Another reason he is on here is the fact that he is very clutch and always has been. I like that about him.

9. Phillip Rivers
Like Eli Manning, Rivers place in here is somewhat difficult, but not for the same reason. Rivers plays with such amazing talent around him and with that, its hard to gauge his skill exactly. He has an amazing offensive line, the top TE and HB in the league and a pretty good WR corp. But things like this can be said of a lot of people, but Rivers does actually produce very well and that’s why he is here. Though he has been sitting on the bench for a couple of years, he exploded as soon as he was a starter. I expect for him to only get better as he gets more playing time as a starter. With the potential his WRs showed in the playoffs, who knows how many spots he can jump next year.

10. David Garrard
Now here is a guy who came out of nowhere and did an awesome job. Turnovers are such a huge factor in games and Garrad excels at limiting them. He started 12 games and finished with 18 TDs and 3 interceptions which leads to 24 TDs and 4 interceptions if he had started the whole season. Along with a high completion percentage and a good 7.7 YPA, I expect even better things from him in the upcoming seasons.

Borat
08-22-2008, 05:30 PM
Alex Smith/JT O'Sullivan/Shaun Hill should all be in the top 10 of worst QBs ever

BeerBaron
08-22-2008, 05:59 PM
Big Ben is one I forgot to mention up above. Knew I'd forget somebody...

bored of education
08-22-2008, 06:07 PM
I think this is the year Big Ben solidifies number 3.

d34ng3l021
08-22-2008, 06:11 PM
I think this is the year Big Ben solidifies number 3.

Right below Brodie Croyle and Damon Huard?

BeerBaron
08-22-2008, 06:14 PM
Right below Brodie Croyle and Damon Huard?

and Ky-le Ort-on!!!

bored of education
08-22-2008, 06:17 PM
Right below Brodie Croyle and Damon Huard?


Tyler Thigpen..Huard is 4th!

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-22-2008, 07:15 PM
Watch out for Cutler up in Denver. He will be on this list very soon.

abaddon41_80
08-22-2008, 07:26 PM
1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Drew Brees
4. Carson Palmer
5. Tony Romo
6. Ben Roethlisberger
7. Matt Hasselbeck
8. Jeff Garcia
9. Brett Favre
10. Jay Cutler

MetSox17
08-22-2008, 07:30 PM
Quarterback thread?! Let's get this started!

Eli Manning isn't a top ten QB.....

Okay, just kidding, but seriously, there's a hundred quarterback threads already. Good thing Deangelo already posted what has been discussed many times before.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll270/sweetchinmusical/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

d34ng3l021
08-22-2008, 09:36 PM
It was for his purposes only. I didnt mean to bring it up so it could be discussed.

TheBuffaloBills
08-22-2008, 09:45 PM
I think this will be helpful for you to get an idea of how some QB's are.

Peyton Manning- The top 2 of the league right now. Has great mental toughness and has virtually no weaknesses for a pocket QB.

Tom Brady- Just came off of his best season ever. Was dominate and is arguably the best QB in the league.

Ben Roesthlisberger- Has a superbowl victory under his belt for being a relatively young QB. Just got a huge contract. Has played very well for not having the best group of WR's around him.

Brett Favre- I hope you know this guys name. A legend that came out of retirement to play for the New York Jets.

TyronePoole38
08-23-2008, 08:13 AM
1a-Peyton Manning
1b-Tom Brady
3-Carson Palmer
4-Drew Brees
5-Tony Romo
6-Matt Hasselbeck
7-Ben Roethlisberger
8-Brett Favre
9-Donovan Mcnabb
10-Marc Bulger

Addict
08-23-2008, 09:12 AM
The only thing NFLDC has ever agreed on is this:

#1 & #1b: Tom Brady and Peyton Manning (both are the best

#3-9: total crapshoot. Usually you'll see:
Romo, Eli Manning, Brees, Palmer, McNabb, Roethlisberger, Hasselbeck, Favre and Rivers.

#10 sometimes higher, but usually a name who pops up in addition to the above is Cutler or Gerrawrd.

Dirk360
08-23-2008, 10:51 AM
I'm sorry but I'm going to need more qb lists than this. Thanks though. Btw, what makes these qbs you call brady, manning, and farve so special?

The Unseen
08-23-2008, 12:15 PM
Btw, what makes these qbs you call brady, manning, and farve so special?

They're, um, really good. They throw for alot of yards and touchdowns, they consistently lead their teams to the playoffs, and each has won a Super Bowl, Brady having won three and been to four while Favre won one but has been to two. All three have broken records, Manning and Brady breaking the single-season TD record, and Favre the all-time passing yardage record (and interception record too, but that's not as bad as it sounds).

Shane P. Hallam
08-23-2008, 12:33 PM
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Tony Romo
5. Carson Palmer
6. Ben Roethlisberger
7. Jay Cutler (up and coming)
8. Donovan McNabb
9. Matt Hasselbeck
10. Brett Favre


I'd outline strengths and weaknesses, but then we would two rounds of people telling me I am wrong.

Mr.Regular
08-23-2008, 12:40 PM
1) Peyton Manning
2) Tom Brady (the top 2 are interchangable)
3) Drew Brees
4) Ben Roethlisberger
5) Carson Palmer
6) Brett Favre
7) Tony Romo
8) Matt Hasselbeck
9) Donovan McNabb
10) Eli Manning

TheBuffaloBills
08-23-2008, 01:10 PM
I'm sorry but I'm going to need more qb lists than this. Thanks though. Btw, what makes these qbs you call brady, manning, and farve so special?

I dont want to be flamed for this, but if you need more lists, there is a football game by EA sports called madden. There is more than enough QB's that are rated in the game. This will tell you what they are good at. 99 is the best rating.

Its alittle blurry, but more than enough information.

Here you go

http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2008/06/are_the_madden_09_qb_ratings_r.html


Was this a good idea?

MetSox17
08-23-2008, 01:13 PM
I dont want to be flamed for this, but if you need more lists, there is a football game by EA sports called madden. There is more than enough QB's that are rated in the game. This will tell you what they are good at. 99 is the best rating.

Its alittle blurry, but more than enough information.

Here you go

http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2008/06/are_the_madden_09_qb_ratings_r.html


Was this a good idea?

You're not funny at all, just please, for the love of god, stop posting.

TheBuffaloBills
08-23-2008, 02:32 PM
I wasnt intending on being funny?.... He said he needed more list so I gave him a link to the madden ratings for QB's... Since he asked why are the quarterbacks that we listed good, the ratings show why they are good..... I thought it was a good idea..... my bad

Malaka
08-23-2008, 02:42 PM
I wasnt intending on being funny?.... He said he needed more list so I gave him a link to the madden ratings for QB's... Since he asked why are the quarterbacks that we listed good, the ratings show why they are good..... I thought it was a good idea..... my bad


Yeah... because Tom Brady's arm is stronger than JaMarcus Russell...:rolleyes:

That idea is pretty dumb.

EDIT: Oh Yeah, Roy Williams an 88 rofl

Dirk360
08-23-2008, 02:47 PM
so drew brees is the best qb in the nfl?

TheBuffaloBills
08-23-2008, 02:53 PM
Yeah... because Tom Brady's arm is stronger than JaMarcus Russell...:rolleyes:

That idea is pretty dumb.

EDIT: Oh Yeah, Roy Williams an 88 rofl

Dude, He has no clue about the Quarterback position. I know Madden ratings arent perfect, and quite frankly it is impossible for it to be perfect. Sure Russell's are is stronger, but its not like its a 10 point difference from Brady. It gives him an idea of what the players ranking is.

TheBuffaloBills
08-23-2008, 02:54 PM
so drew brees is the best qb in the nfl?

No, Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are the best QB's in the NFL

Malaka
08-23-2008, 02:56 PM
Dude, He has no clue about the Quarterback position. I know Madden ratings arent perfect, and quite frankly it is impossible for it to be perfect. Sure Russell's are is stronger, but its not like its a 10 point difference from Brady. It gives him an idea of what the players ranking is.

So Roy Williams is one of the better SSs in the league? Eli Manning is better than Matt Hasselback? Michael Turner who has never started is already better than Earnest Graham, Ryan Grant, and even Brandon Jacobs. Joe Thomas is the best LT in the NFL?

TheBuffaloBills
08-23-2008, 03:23 PM
So Roy Williams is one of the better SSs in the league? Eli Manning is better than Matt Hasselback? Michael Turner who has never started is already better than Earnest Graham, Ryan Grant, and even Brandon Jacobs. Joe Thomas is the best LT in the NFL?

First of all we are talking about QB's..... Every ranking can get argued to death.... This guy is new to football and when reading the ratings he isnt going to say "Eli.... is what?...... There is no way he is better than Hassleback..."

Lets just move on and he can look at the Madden ratings if he wants or doesnt want to.

Bengalsrocket
08-23-2008, 04:45 PM
The Madden ratings were not a terrible idea guys. Are the individual stats accurate? no way. We all know that. But for someone who doesn't even know who the best QB(s) in the league are, its not a bad idea for him to read the overalls and get a slight judgment of the good QB's in this league.

Obviously, he shouldn't be looking at arm strength or accuracy or anything, but I still don't see a problem with looking at the overalls. Maybe Eli manning isn't better than Hasselbeck, but I'm sure he can look at the ratings and see that Campbell is worse than Palmer or Romo etc.

eaglesfan_45
08-23-2008, 04:57 PM
1. Peyton Manning
2. Tom Brady
3. Carson Palmer
4. Big Ben
5. Drew Brees
6. Tony Romo
7. Brett Farve
8. Donovan McNabb
9. Phillip Rivers
10. David Garrard

TheBuffaloBills
08-23-2008, 05:21 PM
The Madden ratings were not a terrible idea guys. Are the individual stats accurate? no way. We all know that. But for someone who doesn't even know who the best QB(s) in the league are, its not a bad idea for him to read the overalls and get a slight judgment of the good QB's in this league.

Obviously, he shouldn't be looking at arm strength or accuracy or anything, but I still don't see a problem with looking at the overalls. Maybe Eli manning isn't better than Hasselbeck, but I'm sure he can look at the ratings and see that Campbell is worse than Palmer or Romo etc.


Thank you for agreeing with me.....

Dirk hopefully we helped you...

Addict
08-23-2008, 06:07 PM
I'm sorry but I'm going to need more qb lists than this. Thanks though. Btw, what makes these qbs you call brady, manning, and farve so special?

it's amazing how much you resemble me when I first came on here. What sets them apart from the pack is essentially two things: consistency and production. Arm strength, accuracy and decision making lead to these things. Simply put: they win football games. Lots of 'em.

holt_bruce81
08-23-2008, 06:18 PM
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Ben Roethlisberger
4. Carson Palmer
5. Donovan McNabb
6. Drew Brees
7. Matt Hasselbeck
8. David Garrard
9. Brett Favre
10. Jeff Garcia

yo123
08-23-2008, 06:19 PM
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Ben Roethlisberger
4. Carson Palmer
5. Donovan McNabb
6. Drew Brees
7. Matt Hasselbeck
8. David Garrard
9. Brett Favre
10. Jeff Garcia

Did Tony Romo rape your girlfriend or did you just forget him?

Dirk360
08-23-2008, 06:22 PM
Thank you for agreeing with me.....

Dirk hopefully we helped you...

Thanks for making me feel welcome and helping me learn about the league.

it's amazing how much you resemble me when I first came on here. What sets them apart from the pack is essentially two things: consistency and production. Arm strength, accuracy and decision making lead to these things. Simply put: they win football games. Lots of 'em.

Nice to know that you have been here before too. Thanks.:)

1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Ben Roethlisberger
4. Carson Palmer
5. Donovan McNabb
6. Drew Brees
7. Matt Hasselbeck
8. David Garrard
9. Brett Favre
10. Jeff Garcia

Everybody's list seems to have these 2 guys named brady and manning at the top. I must remember these guys names and skills.

Matthew Jones
08-23-2008, 07:24 PM
1. Tom Brady, Patriots
2. Peyton Manning, Colts
3. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers
4. Drew Brees, Saints
5. Tony Romo, Cowboys
6. Carson Palmer, Bengals
7. Brett Favre, Jets
8. Matt Hasselbeck, Seahawks
9. Donovan McNabb, Eagles
10. Eli Manning, Giants

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-23-2008, 08:55 PM
Thanks for making me feel welcome and helping me learn about the league.



Nice to know that you have been here before too. Thanks.:)



Everybody's list seems to have these 2 guys named brady and manning at the top. I must remember these guys names and skills.

I'll try to break it down by skills for some of the guys mentioned:

Peyton Manning: Simply put, he is a football genius. He is always always always the smartest man on the field. There is nothing a defense can do to stump him. Physically, he has everything you look for, but his intelligence puts him in the top echelon of quarterbacks. A VERY common sight at a Colts game is Peyton under center yelling to his teammates. This is him making an adjustment on the play called, or even calling the play himself. Other QBs also do this, but none nearly as often as he does.

Tom Brady: Was not highly regarded at all when he entered the league, with almost 200 players taken before him in the pro draft. However, people began to take notice when in his second season, he drove the Patriots down the field with time running out to get into a game winning field goal situation against a heavily favoured St. Louis Rams team. Since then, Tom Brady has become synonymous with cool. He never seems flustered, no matter what the situation is, and is on the very short list of quarterbacks you'd want to get you into scoring position in a close game with time running low. Skillswise, he's like Peyton. Big, strong arm, and accurate, with an excellent pocket presence. What he loses from Peyton in terms of knowledge, he makes up for in his calmness, which is why they're pretty much tied.

Dam8610
08-23-2008, 09:15 PM
so drew brees is the best qb in the nfl?

No. Peyton Manning is the best QB in the NFL.

yodabear
08-23-2008, 09:17 PM
1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Drew Brees
4. Matt Hasselbeck
5. Carson Palmer
6. Ben Roetlisberger
7. Tony Romo
8. Donovan McNab
9. Brett Favre
10. Jay Cutler

One name that will be on the list soon: THE MAN, THE CUZ.....MATT RYAN

Shane P. Hallam
08-23-2008, 09:23 PM
Thanks for making me feel welcome and helping me learn about the league.



Nice to know that you have been here before too. Thanks.:)



Everybody's list seems to have these 2 guys named brady and manning at the top. I must remember these guys names and skills.


Ha, and now Addict is a pro!


I just suggest watching what games you can when they are shown. The announcers will talk about the greats a lot.


I'm going to take a dive and explain some of these QBs to you. I highly suggest people don't quote me and be like, OMG you are wrong here! Blah blah blah. Let's just get this guy on the right track.

1. Tom Brady: New England Patriots, 31 years old, He has won the Super Bowl 3 out of 4 times, twice as the MVP of the Super Bowl. He went to the University of Michigan and was drafted in the 6th round. He is generally considered the biggest draft steal in history. He has won Super Bowls with little to no offensive talent around him and throws and extremely accurate and powerful ball. Great pocket presence and decision making. Future Hall of Famer, in the conversation for greatest QB of all-time.

2. Peyton Manning: Indianapolis Colts, 32 years old. He has won the Super Bowl once. Before going to the Super Bowl, his team (the Colts,) would often meet Tom Bradys team (the Patriots,) in the playoffs and lose. After he won the Super Bowl in 2005, his fates changed. He went to Tennessee. Peyton Manning was drafted #1 overall by the Colts, and many thought it was a mistake to draft him over another QB prospect named "Ryan Leaf" who went to the Chargers. Leaf is considered one of the biggest busts in NFL history. Manning is one of the smartest QBs to play the game. He actually calls three plays in the huddle (one pass, one left run, one right run), then after seeing the defensive set, he calls which play at the line of scrimmage. He is the ultimate field general. Similar skills to Tom Brady, but Manning has generally had some great talent around him (e.g. future Hall of Famer Marvin Harrison,). Future Hall of Famer.

3. Drew Brees. New Orleans Saints, 29 years old. He went to Purdue. Drew Brees was drafted in the second round by the San Diego Chargers. Brees struggled as a QB early in his career in San Diego. Going into the final year of his contract, the Chargers drafted Phillip Rivers (see below,) That year (2004,) Drew Brees put up great numbers. During the 2005 offseason, he moved to New Orleans. Considered one of the most accurate QBs in the NFL. Though he does not have great arm strength, Drew Brees makes great decisions and places the ball pefectly. He has not been to or won a Super Bowl.

4. Tony Romo. Dallas Cowboys, Age 28. Tony Romo went undrafted out of Eastern Illinois, but was picked up by Dallas when new coach Bill Parcells saw something in him. Romo backed up starter Drew Bledsoe, and debuted in 2006. Romo came onto the scene and was very effective, putting up some great stats last season. Tony Romo is above average in all aspects of being a QB. He most criticized off the field however, as he has dated several singers including Carrie Underwood, and currently Jessica Simpson. He has yet to win a playoff game despite being in the playoffs twice as the starter. One loss was attributed to him mishandling a snap.

5. Carson Palmer, Cincinnati Bengals, 28 years old. Palmer was drafted #1 overall by the Bengals out os USC, and sat a year behind then starter Jon Kitna. Palmer's second season was rocky, but so was expected from a franchise not known for success. He broke out in 2005, turning the Bengals offense with Chad Johnson, T.J. Houshmandzadeh, and a stellar offensive line. After winning the division, and reinvigorating fans, Carson Palmer was injured in the first playoff game against the Steelers when a Steelers lineman hit Palmer in the knee with his helmet, causing incredible damage. The Bengals lost, and many have questioned Palmer's ability after the injury. Despite this, Palmer has great arm strength and his accuracy is rarely questioned. Some question his leadership ability as Chad Johnson is known to be most verbal in the media. Palmer continues to be successful, though the Bengals are not. He has not won a playoff game.

6. Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers, Age 26. Ben was drafted 11th overall by the Steelers, behind both Eli Manning and Phillip Rivers, though many thought Ben was the best QB prospect out of the University of Miami in Ohio. He began his rookie year as the #3 QB, but the #2 QB was injured in the offseason. The starter, Tommy Maddox, got hurt early in the regular season, and Ben came in and went 13-0 in the regular season. He did not have success in the playoffs however. "Big Ben" as he is called, did win the Super Bowl in the 05-06 season, despite once again not putting up good statistics in the playoffs or Super Bowl. Ben has above average accuracy and arm strength, but his biggest asset is his ability to elude oncoming blitzers and throw on the run. Many criticize Ben for being inconsistent and not playing well in the playoffs. He is also criticized for his off the field antics, as before the 2006 season, Ben crashed his motorcycle while not wearing a helmet and was almost killed. He came back in 2006, but was not quite as effective. Last year, Ben came back to put up great statistics.

7. Jay Cutler. Denver Broncos, Age 25. Jay was drafted with the 11th pick by the Broncos out of Vanderbilt, taken after QBs Vince Young and Matt Leinart. Many are claiming that Jay Cutler is the next great QB in the NFL due to his incredible arm strength and accuracy, as well as the ability to move around in the pocket. The Broncos franchise has been defined by its Hall of Fame QB, John Elway. After Elway retired, the Broncos were unable to find a replacement for years until Cutler came along. Cutler started off with a bang, tying an NFL record in his rookie season with throwing two touchdowns in each of his first four games. Cutler had a successful season last year as well. He is going into his third NFL season, but he has not been to the playoffs yet.

8. Donovan McNabb. Philadelphia Eagles, Age 31. Donovan was drafted 2nd overall in 1999 by the Eagles out of Syracuse. McNabb has good speed and elusiveness for a QB, and he also is known for throwing an accurate ball. McNabb's career has been plagued by injuries, and he has not had a completely healthy season in some time. McNabb did lead the Eagles to a Super Bowl, but he lost to Tom Brady and the New England Patriots. McNabb has also been to the NFC Championship game 4 years in a row (having only won it once). McNabb is probably most criticized for injuries and lack of leadership. The leadership knock comes from off the field issues with ex-Eagles WR Terrell Owens (now with Dallas and Tony Romo). TO was a Pro Bowl WR, but often criticized McNabb, citing leadership among other things. The team ultimately got rid of Owens, but since then, McNabb has had little to no talented WRs. Philadelphia also drafted McNabb's aire apparent in QB Kevin Kolb in 2007. This led many to wonder if McNabb would be traded or released. Some still think he may go back to his home state of Chicago to play for the Bears down the line. McNabb is the second least intercepted QB in NFL history.

9. Matt Hasselbeck. Seattle Seahawks, Age 32. Hasselbeck was drafted in the 6th round in 1999 to be groomed to back-up star Brett Favre. He joined his former coach in Seattle in 2001, when the Packers traded him to the Seahawks. Hass has above average arm strength and accuracy, and is an excellent game manager. He came at his most success in 2005, when RB Shaun Alexander also had a very successful season. Hass had the highest QB rating that year. He would eventually lose to Ben Roethlisberger in the Super Bowl. Hsselbeck has had success despite oft injured and not very talented WRs, but is likely on the downside of his career.

10. Brett Favre. New York Jets. Age 38. Favre was drafted in the 2nd round by the Atlanta Falcons after QB busts like Dan McGwire, and Todd Marinovich. Atlanta's coach hated Favre and he was traded after one year for first round pick Tony Smith. Favre has one of the greatest arm strengths in NFL history, but he still throws a catchable ball. He is also known for his toughness as he has the most consecutive starts at QB in NFL history. Favre has had a Hall of Fame career in Green Bay, winning the Super Bowl once, and going to the Pro Bowl 9 times. He had extreme success in the playoffs and has been the NFL MVP 3 times. Over the last few years, many waited for Brett Favre to retire. Often times, he would not decide until right near training camp. This led to the Packers drafting Brett Favre's aire apparent in Aaron Rodgers in 2005, after Rodgers (who some thought may be the #1 overall pick,) fell to pick 24. Favre did come back to the team, and continued his Hall of Fame career. Finally, this past March, Favre announced his retirement. The Packers turned to Aaron Rodgers, but Favre unretired in late July, causing a riff within the Packers as they were ready to move on. This led to Favre not wanting to be with the Packers if he wasn't starting. He was soon traded to the New York Jets where he will play this year.

BeerBaron
08-23-2008, 09:38 PM
leave it to JBond to throw something like that out there, lol

a few other notables that probably just missed his top 10:

Eli Manning - NY Giants - Just won the superbowl last year and played very well during the post season. He has been very inconsistent throughout his career and some still question him. He's Peyton's younger brother too.

David Garrard - Jacksonville Jaguars - Was a backup for years and usually played well when given the chance. Last year, he took over as starter right before the season started and played very well. Needs to follow it up with another good year this year and he'll easily be a top 10 QB.

Derek Anderson - Cleveland Browns - Came totally out of nowhere last season to take what was supposed to be a rather lousy Browns team nearly into the playoffs. Made the pro bowl but needs to prove last year wasn't a fluke.

Phillip Rivers - SD Chargers - Has played very well at times but has been surrounded by great offensive talent his whole career too. Some think of him as a top 10 QB and others think he's not going to pan out...

Malaka
08-23-2008, 09:43 PM
Jbond, I can agree with just about everything except for Jay Cutler, I really don't think he has done enough to establish himself as a top ten QB, potentially he can if he learns to play with his condition. (His condition does not affect where he goes IMO, either way I don't think he is top ten) I'd rather see everyone move up a spot, and have Eli, Garrard, or Rivers take the 10 spot. If Jay Cutler does great this year, then he can most definitely be a top QB, just... not yet. Other than Tom Brady > Peyton Manning and Cutler my list and your list is identical.

Shane P. Hallam
08-24-2008, 12:48 AM
Jbond, I can agree with just about everything except for Jay Cutler, I really don't think he has done enough to establish himself as a top ten QB, potentially he can if he learns to play with his condition. (His condition does not affect where he goes IMO, either way I don't think he is top ten) I'd rather see everyone move up a spot, and have Eli, Garrard, or Rivers take the 10 spot. If Jay Cutler does great this year, then he can most definitely be a top QB, just... not yet. Other than Tom Brady > Peyton Manning and Cutler my list and your list is identical.

There you go Malaka. I'm not high on Cutler either. But, looking at his mechanics, pose, and ability, he is the next great QB.

Saints-Tigers
08-24-2008, 12:49 AM
I think after Brady and Manning, it's Brees and Palmer as clearly ahead of the next group of guys that are very much interchangeable.