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View Full Version : who goes first: Tebow or Harvin?


Buttered toast sonic
08-01-2008, 06:40 AM
question is up there, if both come out, who will be picked first, tim Tebow, or Percy Harvin?

BigJohn98
08-01-2008, 06:42 AM
Tebow isn't leaving, so Harvin.

eaglesalltheway
08-01-2008, 07:53 AM
Well neither have a true position, since Tebow is a situational Pass rusher;), so I'd say they go one right after the other.

Seriously though, I am a fan of Tebow, and IF he would come out, he may go before, but I doubt he does.

bearsfan_51
08-01-2008, 10:36 AM
This poll is going to piss me off, simply because of what people think should happen, and not what would happen.

It's Tebow. It's not even close. Look at the history of the draft.

princefielder28
08-01-2008, 10:40 AM
Tebow isn't leaving, so Harvin.

Good thing you read the intial post

Tebow may not be the sexiest QB prospect, but he is much sexier than the majority of QBs out there and he's production is unmatched

BigJohn98
08-01-2008, 10:51 AM
I read the initial post. I live in Gator country bro. He isn't leaving. I don't know why you people don't get that.

bearsfan_51
08-01-2008, 10:57 AM
Oh please "bro". Vince Young wasn't leaving either. The season hasn't started yet, we have no idea what's going to happen, no matter where you live.

BigJohn98
08-01-2008, 11:05 AM
Oh please "bro". Vince Young wasn't leaving either. The season hasn't started yet, we have no idea what's going to happen, no matter where you live.

Vince Young was gone as soon as the Rose Bowl ended.

bearsfan_51
08-01-2008, 11:18 AM
Vince Young was gone as soon as the Rose Bowl ended.
Which would have been an entire year after what we're talking about. That was after he completed his junior year, which Tebow hasn't even started yet. There's still a long time to go.

princefielder28
08-01-2008, 11:47 AM
I read the initial post. I live in Gator country bro. He isn't leaving. I don't know why you people don't get that.

The fact that you live in Gator country is all I needed to hear; you don't want him to leave regardless of what happens...he's a good kid with a good head on his shoulders, but if you look at what has happened to top tier junior QBs who decided to stay for their senior year, they have paid a big price for that.

Bearsfan123
08-01-2008, 12:19 PM
Harvin. Pro scouts arent going to like Tebows game. Harvin has potential to be a great WR, but if not, a damn good KR is always useful.

Cigaro
08-01-2008, 12:29 PM
Harvin. Pro scouts arent going to like Tebows game. Harvin has potential to be a great WR, but if not, a damn good KR is always useful.

That's weird, because he doesn't return kicks at Florida.

Turtlepower
08-01-2008, 12:36 PM
That's weird, because he doesn't return kicks at Florida.

But he is scouted as a KR in the NFL.

L O V E
08-01-2008, 12:41 PM
Tebow would go higher if they draft were today.

Tebow plays the most important position in football, and the position that has historically held the most draft value.

Tebow will likely compile statistics that are more impressive than Harvin.

Based on those facts, it's hard to imagine Harvin goes ahead of Tebow.

619
08-01-2008, 12:53 PM
It's common knowledge you almost always go with the franchise QB. Advantage : Tebow

BamaFalcon59
08-01-2008, 01:16 PM
The fact that you live in Gatir country is all I needed to hear; you don't want him to leave regardless of what happens...he's a good kid with a good head on his shoulders, but if you look at what has happened to top tier junior QBs who decided to stay for their senior year, they have paid a big price for that.

He is a FSU fan, so I don't think he has much bias.

Staubach12
08-01-2008, 01:33 PM
It's a tough call, IMO. A lot of you are overestimating Tebow's value on the NFL stage. A QB with the mentality of a power RB, who has terrible mechanics, a wind-up release and who plays in a gimmicky system at a college who's best pro product at QB is Rex Grossman is not going to be a top pick. That's the bottom line. Not to mention, this guy has had some injuries in the past and his arm is average at best.

Also, Harvin's ability goes WAY beyond WR/KR. This guy can line up anywhere. He's a matchup nightmare who, despite his size and that offense, will be picked in the first round most likely. MAYBE early 2nd.

JT Jag
08-01-2008, 01:35 PM
Tebow isn't coming out. If he did, he'd be picked in the top 15.

ChezPower4
08-01-2008, 01:36 PM
I read the initial post. I live in Gator country bro. He isn't leaving. I don't know why you people don't get that.

How do you know that for sure did you call him up and ask him yourself

bearsfan_51
08-01-2008, 01:50 PM
It's a tough call, IMO. A lot of you are overestimating Tebow's value on the NFL stage. A QB with the mentality of a power RB, who has terrible mechanics, a wind-up release and who plays in a gimmicky system at a college who's best pro product at QB is Rex Grossman is not going to be a top pick. That's the bottom line. Not to mention, this guy has had some injuries in the past and his arm is average at best.
Was Alex Smith a top pick? What about Vince Young? Or Akilli Smith? Or Matt Ryan? Or Cade McNown?

Alex Smith came out of ******* Utah in an Urban Meyer scheme and was the top pick in the draft, so this stuff about Florida is massively overblown. What Tebow has to do with Steve Spurrier I have no idea. And that's not to compare the Tebow and Smith, Tebow is a much much better prospect.

That was my original point. There are far too many people that are simply dismissive of Tebow because they don't like him, when in reality he's going to be a top pick unless he tanks this season. I'm not sure where you get that he has an average at best arm either.

Saint Michael
08-01-2008, 02:00 PM
I don't see Tebow translating to the NFL. Then again if VY can be a top 5 pick anything can happen.

DeathbyStat
08-01-2008, 03:04 PM
With gun to my head I'll say Tebow but I think both will go alot later than many people think they will

draftguru151
08-01-2008, 03:17 PM
Harvin by decent amount.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-01-2008, 03:33 PM
Harvin by decent amount.

I'm not so certain. We have to see how each player progresses this coming season. Harvin has got great skills, but he's very raw as a receiver and there's no way he's a runningback. Even if he get major consideration a return guy (a position he hasn't played much of, but one imagines he could), that won't help his stock all that much. Tebow has mechanical issues, more so than someone like Alex Smith had, and it appears like Meyer's Florida offense is a little more simple in the Tebow iteration than it was in Utah, but he's a fairly accurate passer with solid arm strength and great skills outside of that. Based on potential alone, Tebow is going to attract suitors.

draftguru151
08-01-2008, 03:35 PM
Yea that's more my opinion of where I would draft them than where they will actually go.

Turtlepower
08-01-2008, 03:36 PM
Then again, maybe Tebow gets polio and loses the use of his legs. That would definitely drop him to at least the late 1st, early 2nd.

Staubach12
08-01-2008, 03:37 PM
Was Alex Smith a top pick? What about Vince Young? Or Akilli Smith? Or Matt Ryan? Or Cade McNown?

Alex Smith came out of ******* Utah in an Urban Meyer scheme and was the top pick in the draft, so this stuff about Florida is massively overblown. What Tebow has to do with Steve Spurrier I have no idea. And that's not to compare the Tebow and Smith, Tebow is a much much better prospect.

That was my original point. There are far too many people that are simply dismissive of Tebow because they don't like him, when in reality he's going to be a top pick unless he tanks this season. I'm not sure where you get that he has an average at best arm either.

And look at what a success Alex Smith has been! And VY... And Akilli Smith... And Cade McNown... The point is, these are some reasons why scouts won't like him.

Cigaro
08-01-2008, 03:45 PM
But he is scouted as a KR in the NFL.

By who exactly? Just because someone is quick and elusive doesn't mean they'll be a great kick returner. You have to be able to catch kickoffs(and no, being a great receiver doesn't mean you can catch kickoffs), you have to be patient and understand the lanes, and you can't be fragile.

If he returns kicks in the NFL, he won't be a starting receiver.

smittyjs
08-01-2008, 03:52 PM
Tebow i don't see being a top 15 pick, his arm just doesn't stand out to me and i have seen alot of gators games the last few seasons, Harvin is a top 15 pick IMO.

smittyjs
08-01-2008, 03:53 PM
And look at what a success Alex Smith has been! And VY... And Akilli Smith... And Cade McNown... The point is, these are some reasons why scouts won't like him.
VY is a winner, that is a plus for scouts....

Staubach12
08-01-2008, 03:57 PM
Yeah, because 50% completion and more INTs than TDs is awfully attractive...

LonghornsLegend
08-01-2008, 04:10 PM
And look at what a success Alex Smith has been! And VY... And Akilli Smith... And Cade McNown... The point is, these are some reasons why scouts won't like him.

Those guys have nothing to do with Tebow, scouts know how to grade players on a player by player basis, they don't look at past guys and try to figure out if they will pan out the same or not...some of those guys went into bad situations, you named VY and Akili Smith right by eachother which makes no sense...Smith is out of the league, VY is still young and has yet to get a WR.


There is no exact reason guys didn't pan out, some get lazy, some don't want to watch film, some guys work harder, it makes no sense to say Tebow won't pan out because they didn't because they are all completely different players in their own right, Akili Smith isn't on anyone's mind when scouting a QB.

smittyjs
08-01-2008, 04:14 PM
Yeah, because 50% completion and more INTs than TDs is awfully attractive...
But his record as starter is with no true #1 WR on the team, that's the important part here ;)

StrongSide97
08-01-2008, 05:07 PM
Personally, it would be a better choice for Tebow if he stayed anyways after this season, so he could improve his passing game as much as he possibly can.

I also think Percy Harvin, if he can stay healthy, will be one of the best players in the draft come April. Again, as long as he stays healthy.

TACKLE
08-01-2008, 05:26 PM
So many people hate on Tebow as a passer but they don't realize how efficient and productive he was. 3286 yards, 32 TD's, 6 INT's, 67% Completion, 172.5 Passer Rating. Those are very impressive numbers for any QB in any system let alone a for "running QB" who is just a "fullback who lines up behind the center". Tebow was number 2 in the nation in passer rating and 11th in completion percentage. Put that together with an amazing athlete, with a strong arm, great size and off the chart intangibles and leadership, I don't see how you don't have top QB prospect.

Turtlepower
08-01-2008, 05:29 PM
So many people hate on Tebow as a passer but they don't realize how efficient and productive he was. 3286 yards, 32 TD's, 6 INT's, 67% Completion, 172.5 Passer Rating. Those are very impressive numbers for any QB in any system let alone a for "running QB" who is just a "fullback who lines up behind the center". Tebow was number 2 in the nation in passer rating and 11th in completion percentage. Put that together with an amazing athlete, with a strong arm, great size and off the chart intangibles and leadership, I don't see how you don't have top QB prospect.

Colt Brennan?

CJSchneider
08-01-2008, 05:30 PM
If both came out, Tebow would be drafted first. But please, someone tell me that I am not the only one who has a feeling Tebow's success in college is not going to translate into succes in the pros.

illmatic74
08-01-2008, 05:36 PM
Tim Tebow release is to slow in the NFL. Against Michigan he was forced to beat them dropping back and passing the ball and he wasn't able to do it.

Staubach12
08-01-2008, 06:07 PM
Those guys have nothing to do with Tebow, scouts know how to grade players on a player by player basis, they don't look at past guys and try to figure out if they will pan out the same or not...some of those guys went into bad situations, you named VY and Akili Smith right by eachother which makes no sense...Smith is out of the league, VY is still young and has yet to get a WR.


There is no exact reason guys didn't pan out, some get lazy, some don't want to watch film, some guys work harder, it makes no sense to say Tebow won't pan out because they didn't because they are all completely different players in their own right, Akili Smith isn't on anyone's mind when scouting a QB.

I'm just responding to other people's arguments as to why he'll be a top pick.

And yes, he's been good as a passer, but in that system a lot changes on the next level. I want to see his release reworked.

Staubach12
08-01-2008, 06:07 PM
Colt Brennan?

Great size?

Byrd430
08-01-2008, 07:17 PM
I really can't translate Tebow to the next level until after this season.

If what I hear is correct, Tebow will be running less and passing more. So, I'd like to see what he does this season before I make any real judgement on him. From what I see right now, though, he is probably the hardest player to scout in this upcoming draft.

As far as Harvin goes, he's electrifying, he's a threat, and should he really define his receiving skills (which he should since Florida will use more of Moore and Moody at RB instead of Harvin), he has the potential to develop into a Steve Smith. And honestly, what team doesn't want a Steve Smith on their team?

As of right now, I have to make a PREMATURE guess and say Harvin will be the first one taken.

StrongSide97
08-01-2008, 09:19 PM
So many people hate on Tebow as a passer but they don't realize how efficient and productive he was. 3286 yards, 32 TD's, 6 INT's, 67% Completion, 172.5 Passer Rating. Those are very impressive numbers for any QB in any system let alone a for "running QB" who is just a "fullback who lines up behind the center". Tebow was number 2 in the nation in passer rating and 11th in completion percentage. Put that together with an amazing athlete, with a strong arm, great size and off the chart intangibles and leadership, I don't see how you don't have top QB prospect.


Yes, he has great numbers, but the chances of Tebow producing those in the NFL are really slim, especially within the first couple seasons. One, the defenses in the NFL are smarter by a wide region, more athletic and strong by a wide region and the defensive coaches today are always coming up with something new for QB's to figure out.

Don't get me wrong, Tebow will go in the first round if he were to declare after this season, because he is a natural born leader and is arguably the best hybrid QB in the class. I just wouldn't expect good numbers or wins from him for at least two or three seasons.

BamaFalcon59
08-01-2008, 09:21 PM
Yes, he has great numbers, but the chances of Tebow producing those in the NFL are really slim, especially within the first couple seasons. One, the defenses in the NFL are smarter by a wide region, more athletic and strong by a wide region and the defensive coaches today are always coming up with something new for QB's to figure out.

Don't get me wrong, Tebow will go in the first round if he were to declare after this season, because he is a natural born leader and is arguably the best hybrid QB in the class. I just wouldn't expect good numbers or wins from him for at least two or three seasons.

That applies to every college quarterback.

StrongSide97
08-01-2008, 09:29 PM
That applies to every college quarterback.

duh, but it's going to be harder for Tebow. Just look at Alex Smith. What has he done, yea, he doesn't have the body of Tebow, but he was a better passer and had better passing intangibles.

Look at guys like Carson Palmer, Ben Rothlisberger, Eli Manning. They were built for the NFL, guys like Tebow are built for NCAA.

I just don't see Tebow being the QB that some people are hyping him up to be in the NFL.

BamaFalcon59
08-01-2008, 09:48 PM
BR wasn't exactly pro ready. He had a big arm, a great pro quarterback body, and big time potential, but he also came from an offense that threw the ball around a lot in the MAC.

Anyways, my point is that Tebow has all the tools, and his adjustment period isn't going to be drastically longer than other QBs. If he succeeds, I doubt it takes him to year five to seven to do so.

bearsfan_51
08-01-2008, 10:26 PM
And look at what a success Alex Smith has been! And VY... And Akilli Smith... And Cade McNown... The point is, these are some reasons why scouts won't like him.
And MY point is, that someone will still draft him very high because coaches think they can fix anyone with talent. It doesn't matter if you think that's a good idea. It's going to happen, it always does.

bearsfan_51
08-01-2008, 10:27 PM
Also, no offense, but this notion that Alex Smith had more talent and intangibles than Tebow is ******* ridiculous. I honestly wonder if some of you watch sports.

yourfavestoner
08-02-2008, 12:09 AM
well. let me put my two cents in...first off, tebow is not coming out this year. i'd bet a paycheck on it. his family is very, very well off financially, so its not like he needs to come out to "support his family." his parents are UF grads, and if anything they will pressure him to stay there, get his degree, and break all kinds of NCAA records. the only way I can see him coming out is if he won another Heisman and UF wins the national championship.onto him as a prospect...personally I think he'll flop in the nfl (and i'm a UF fan). his mechanics are screwy, his release is slow, and he's played in a gimmicky spread since high school. his power running style won't work against nfl defensive linemen and linebackers and will leave him susceptible to injuries. plus, he's really not that bright of a guy to be completely honest. he's a much better prospect than alex smith, but the fact that smith was a number one overall pick is a joke in itself. however, like BF said, some coach at the top of the draft will fall in love with him and think that they can fix him and will take him very early. a lot will depend on his offseason workouts.harvin is another guy I'm not surw of at the pro level (right now). I've said it a million times, percy is a peter warrick clone. he really needs to stay in school another year (even though I already knoq he won't) as hell only be 20 when the draft rolls around. he's still a very raw route runner as UF just tries to get him the ball in space and let him rack up yards after the catch. chris rainey is supposed to play more of the running back/slot receiver role which will allow harvin to focus more at receiver. I also want to see how he plays with all the added weight (hes up to 200 lbs).

yourfavestoner
08-02-2008, 12:12 AM
and my bad for no paragraphs, but I'm on my phone (no computer right now) :(

Staubach12
08-02-2008, 12:30 AM
And MY point is, that someone will still draft him very high because coaches think they can fix anyone with talent. It doesn't matter if you think that's a good idea. It's going to happen, it always does.

And I understand and respect that. It's a valid point. Agree to disagree I guess.

619
08-02-2008, 01:20 AM
well. let me put my two cents in...first off, tebow is not coming out this year. i'd bet a paycheck on it. his family is very, very well off financially, so its not like he needs to come out to "support his family." his parents are UF grads, and if anything they will pressure him to stay there, get his degree, and break all kinds of NCAA records. the only way I can see him coming out is if he won another Heisman and UF wins the national championship.onto him as a prospect...personally I think he'll flop in the nfl (and i'm a UF fan). his mechanics are screwy, his release is slow, and he's played in a gimmicky spread since high school. his power running style won't work against nfl defensive linemen and linebackers and will leave him susceptible to injuries. plus, he's really not that bright of a guy to be completely honest. he's a much better prospect than alex smith, but the fact that smith was a number one overall pick is a joke in itself. however, like BF said, some coach at the top of the draft will fall in love with him and think that they can fix him and will take him very early. a lot will depend on his offseason workouts.harvin is another guy I'm not surw of at the pro level (right now). I've said it a million times, percy is a peter warrick clone. he really needs to stay in school another year (even though I already knoq he won't) as hell only be 20 when the draft rolls around. he's still a very raw route runner as UF just tries to get him the ball in space and let him rack up yards after the catch. chris rainey is supposed to play more of the running back/slot receiver role which will allow harvin to focus more at receiver. I also want to see how he plays with all the added weight (hes up to 200 lbs).

You pretty much cleared up everything for me here. Both of these prospects have so many question marks it will be extremely interesting to see the consensus of opinion by draft experts such as Scott if they each do indeed declare. My thought still is Tebow will most likely go higher but I personally rate Harvin as the better of the two.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-02-2008, 02:45 AM
Also, no offense, but this notion that Alex Smith had more talent and intangibles than Tebow is ******* ridiculous. I honestly wonder if some of you watch sports.

Perhaps Smith didn't have more talent, but I think there are pluses he had over the sophomore Tebow. Their stat lines are pretty identical similar through the air.

Alex Smith (2004) - 176.5, 2952, 9.3, 67.5%, 32/4
Tim Tebow (2007) - 172.5, 3286, 9.4, 66.9%, 32/6

But while Tebow faces better weekly competition, he also has far more explosive targets than Smith had. From simply a scouting perspective, Smith had better footwork, a better throwing motion, threw a better ball consistently, and saw the levels of the field better. I saw Smith making more coverage reads than I see Tebow making (who admitted himself that he's encourage to watch the front seven more often). And while intelligence isn't a concern with Tebow, it was a major plus with Smith.

I wasn't the biggest Smith fan in the world (liked Rodgers more), nor do I know how much Tebow will progress his passing method this coming season. But as of right now, I see a few definite positives Alex Smith as a prospect has over Tim Tebow.

iloxygenil
08-02-2008, 09:15 AM
Neither one. Harvin is sick, but he's not a #1 overall guy, and whoever is picking #1 would prolly rather have a real QB, Stafford...

Iamcanadian
08-02-2008, 09:55 AM
The only question about Tebow is his arm strength which is very difficult to judge on TV. If the pro scouts rate his arm as a real strength, he probably has a real shot at going #1 overall in the draft. If his arm strength is just average then Harvin could easily go ahead of him but nowhere near the #1 overall spot.
If Tebow has a strong arm, the scouts won't care what system he played in as long as his other assets are there as well. Systems is way overrated by casual fans when judging QB's.

BigJohn98
08-02-2008, 10:03 AM
Arm strength is not a problem with Tebow.

Iamcanadian
08-02-2008, 10:10 AM
Arm strength is not a problem with Tebow.

One cannot truly judge arm strength on TV. As I said if Tebow has solid arm strength he will be a very serious threat to go #1 overall, the scouts won't care about the system he plays in. However, I think I'll have to hear it from some reliable source before I'm sure.

ChezPower4
08-02-2008, 11:37 AM
One cannot truly judge arm strength on TV. As I said if Tebow has solid arm strength he will be a very serious threat to go #1 overall, the scouts won't care about the system he plays in. However, I think I'll have to hear it from some reliable source before I'm sure.

They won't are you sure about that? Alex Smith played in the same system and he went #1 overall and look how he has turned out. Teams (no matter how good Tebow's arm is) are going to be weary about drafting because of Smith.

princefielder28
08-02-2008, 01:02 PM
They won't are you sure about that? Alex Smith played in the same system and he went #1 overall and look how he has turned out. Teams (no matter how good Tebow's arm is) are going to be weary about drafting because of Smith.

maybe if you are the 49ers

Brent
08-02-2008, 03:20 PM
They won't are you sure about that? Alex Smith played in the same system and he went #1 overall and look how he has turned out. Teams (no matter how good Tebow's arm is) are going to be weary about drafting because of Smith.
Yep and he has consistently been surrounded by the least talented offense in the league.

JT Jag
08-02-2008, 06:21 PM
One cannot truly judge arm strength on TV. As I said if Tebow has solid arm strength he will be a very serious threat to go #1 overall, the scouts won't care about the system he plays in. However, I think I'll have to hear it from some reliable source before I'm sure.On a scale of 1-10, with one being Chad Pennington and ten being Brett Favre in his prime, I'd say Tim Tebow has an arm stregnth of around 8 or 9. That's Carson Palmer/Byron Leftwich/Uninjured Donte Culpepper range.

And I've been to around 20 of his games. I went to high school with him, after all. Go Nease Panthers!

Sniper
08-02-2008, 06:27 PM
Neither one. Harvin is sick, but he's not a #1 overall guy, and whoever is picking #1 would prolly rather have a real QB, Stafford...

OH MY ******* GOD CAN WE STOP WITH THE ******* ******** MATT STAFFORD LOVEFEST! HE HAS NOT DONE A ******* THING TO WARRANT THIS ******* AMOUNT OF MASSIVE ******* HYPE! JESUS ******* CHRIST!

Thank you.

jballa838
08-02-2008, 06:31 PM
Yep and he has consistently been surrounded by the least talented offense in the league.
Gore > Entire Ravens offense.

jballa838
08-02-2008, 06:32 PM
OH MY ******* GOD CAN WE STOP WITH THE ******* ******** MATT STAFFORD LOVEFEST! HE HAS NOT DONE A ******* THING TO WARRANT THIS ******* AMOUNT OF MASSIVE ******* HYPE! JESUS ******* CHRIST!

Thank you.
Apparently tearing up a WAC (and Whack) Defense in a January Bowl makes you a god level QB.

princefielder28
08-02-2008, 06:34 PM
Gore > Entire Ravens offense.

Gore is/was a product of Norv Turner's offensive IQ; he's just a slighty above average back who flourished in that situation

BamaFalcon59
08-02-2008, 06:39 PM
Tim Tebow does not have a Leftwich, Culpepper, or Palmer arm. It is very strong, but those are three of the top ten arms in the league.

d34ng3l021
08-02-2008, 06:39 PM
OH MY ******* GOD CAN WE STOP WITH THE ******* ******** MATT STAFFORD LOVEFEST! HE HAS NOT DONE A ******* THING TO WARRANT THIS ******* AMOUNT OF MASSIVE ******* HYPE! JESUS ******* CHRIST!

Thank you.

I think people know that. He looks extremely poised for a breakout season.

BamaFalcon59
08-02-2008, 06:59 PM
I don't like Stafford much. Doesn't appear as if he has that natural feel for the game.

yourfavestoner
08-02-2008, 07:09 PM
OH MY ******* GOD CAN WE STOP WITH THE ******* ******** MATT STAFFORD LOVEFEST! HE HAS NOT DONE A ******* THING TO WARRANT THIS ******* AMOUNT OF MASSIVE ******* HYPE! JESUS ******* CHRIST!

Thank you.

quoted for mother ******* truth.

wicket
08-02-2008, 07:14 PM
I know it is a common joy to go tebow bashing on this forum, however i would like to add that he did have a heisman year as a sophomore on a talented but not sick offence, there apparently is something right about his game to warrant the completion % he had. And its not that he was throwing to a 6'8 receiver that you could just toss it up to and he would catch the bowl. I seriously am thinking tebow might get more love if he didnt have the running dimension to his game that he had because people worry about the sustainability of his running style. I would like to hear from JT Jag about this but i cant imangine that he plays the same style exactly that he did in high school now, so I see him adapt a bit in the pro's if needed, besides that the dude is a winner and those are a rare commodity.

eaglesfan_45
08-03-2008, 02:17 AM
Neither one. Harvin is sick, but he's not a #1 overall guy, and whoever is picking #1 would prolly rather have a real QB, Stafford...

Matt Stafford = Rex Grossman

OH MY ******* GOD CAN WE STOP WITH THE ******* ******** MATT STAFFORD LOVEFEST! HE HAS NOT DONE A ******* THING TO WARRANT THIS ******* AMOUNT OF MASSIVE ******* HYPE! JESUS ******* CHRIST!

Thank you.

lol.

iloxygenil I think you meant Bradford instead of Grossm.... I mean Stafford

boulder
08-03-2008, 10:20 AM
Tebow will end up being a very, very high pick. NFL teams will drool over his intangibles and what he can bring to the community in which he plays, as well as his very impressive physical skills. He will be the face of a franchise. Whether or not he succeeds and becomes a good QB is still very much up in the air.

Solomon
08-03-2008, 10:25 AM
Neither one. Harvin is sick, but he's not a #1 overall guy, and whoever is picking #1 would prolly rather have a real QB, Stafford...

Neither one? If they come out in the same year somebody has got to go before the other...

Bruce
08-03-2008, 11:04 AM
OH MY ******* GOD CAN WE STOP WITH THE ******* ******** MATT STAFFORD LOVEFEST! HE HAS NOT DONE A ******* THING TO WARRANT THIS ******* AMOUNT OF MASSIVE ******* HYPE! JESUS ******* CHRIST!

Thank you.Dude, the Al Woods hype is worse. He won't even start this year and if he declares he'll be a 1st round pick.

Brent
08-03-2008, 11:09 AM
I wish Curtis Painter would be included in these Stafford/Tebow yelling matches or even Cullen Harper.

Sniper
08-03-2008, 11:29 AM
Dude, the Al Woods hype is worse. He won't even start this year and if he declares he'll be a 1st round pick.

Michael Johnson thumbs his nose at Al Woods.

Three most overhyped prospects on NFLDC

1. Michael Johnson
2. Al Woods
3. Matt Stafford

P-L
08-03-2008, 12:19 PM
Maybe because those three all have a ridiculous amount of that "P" word that NFL scouts drool over. In the NFL Draft it doesn't matter what you did in your first 2 or 3 years, but what you do in your final year. At this point in the draft process there are only a handful of guys at each position who have combined great production and great potential. Those players are generally ranked at the top. After them comes the players with great potential, but have yet to produce at a high level. Finally comes the guys with high potential, but limited upside. Potential is everything in the NFL Draft.

In Stafford's case he's a guy with immense potential who just needs to put it all together this season. His numbers were pretty decent last year (except for completion percentage) on a run-dominant team with very few good receiving options. You'd be hard pressed to find a QB in this weak senior class that has his size and arm. I mean, there's a reason you don't see scouts drooling over guys like Todd Reesing.

As far as Michael Johnson goes, he's a freak athlete. Defensive End is a premium position in the NFL and athletic freaks like Johnson are hard to come by. How many 6'7" 260 guys that run 4.6 40's are you going to find in college football? Johnson's stats aren't all that bad for a guy who was only a situation pass rusher last season.

But back to the topic, I think Tebow goes first. I'm not a fan of him as an NFL prospect, but like others have said he will get drafted highly because some coach will think that him and his staff can fix Tebow's flaws. Right now he's the top QB available and if Matt Stafford doesn't have a big year, it will likely stay that way.

Sniper
08-03-2008, 12:36 PM
Potential means you haven't done **** yet.

America
08-03-2008, 12:56 PM
Potential means you haven't done **** yet.

Nice Bill Parcells quote

P-L
08-03-2008, 01:00 PM
Which group would you rather have for your NFL team?

Matt Stafford, Al Woods, and Michael Johnson

or

Todd Reesing, George Hypolite,and Phillip Hunt

I think it's pretty obvious which one every NFL scout and GM would take. Production can only take you so far. There is a reason that everyone in the first group will be taken in the 1st or 2nd Round when the draft rolls around and the guys in the second ground will probably not make it into the top three rounds.

ALD
08-03-2008, 05:57 PM
I think Tebow will have another big season and hopefully he is able to show a quicker release, if that happens I can't imagine what Harvin would have to accomplish to be picked ahead of him.

Tebow might be partially mentally handicapped but he's a hard working QB with a great arm, great frame, great mobility, good accuracy and the drive to succeed, add to that his already impressive accomplishments and he's a top 20 lock unless he just gets hammered by scouts trying to find flaws in his game.

jballa838
08-03-2008, 06:05 PM
Potential means you haven't done **** yet.
I believe you are saying "production gets you a promotion, potential gets you fired."
and for the record I say Harvin.

A Perfect Score
08-03-2008, 07:00 PM
I think when all is said and done, Tebow is going to be picked apart by scouts, much like Vince Young was when he came out. There will be many complaints, especially concerning his tendency to run, and run recklessly, and the scheme that he has played in. That said, I still see him being a top draft choice for a team needing a QB. His natural tools are undeniable. It worked out well for the titans taking a risk on a raw, athletic QB, VY won OROY that year. (although Im not sure if he should have).

Im a huge fan of Harvin, as I think hes purely electric and no matter where he plays in the Pro's he will have a huge impact. That said, when all is said and done, QB will always be valued more highly then RB/WR. I think Tebow goes higher.