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View Full Version : Steve Smith sucker punches a teammate like a wussy


Saint Michael
08-01-2008, 11:46 AM
SPARTANBURG, S.C. -- Volatile wide receiver Steve Smith and cornerback Ken Lucas exchanged blows during a sideline altercation at Friday morning's practice at Wofford College.

Lucas left the field bloodied and with an ice pack over his left eye.

Smith was escorted from the practice field by general manager Marty Hurney.

The two men were on the sidelines while other members of the team were working through special teams drills when the fight broke out. They exchanged several punches before teammates and coach John Fox charged in to break up the fight. Linebacker Jon Beason had to pull Smith away from Lucas. It took several people to restrain the men and restore order.

http://www.carolinagrowl.com/Read.aspx?Story=649

ChezPower4
08-01-2008, 11:52 AM
would take Smith in that fight any day. Does anyone have a video link?

xooberon
08-01-2008, 11:54 AM
Crap, i'm guessing he'll miss the opener against the chargers. i thought he was over this kind of ****

vidae
08-01-2008, 11:56 AM
At least the Panthers have some fight in them this year.

CC.SD
08-01-2008, 11:57 AM
1 game suspension? Pretty please?

Seriously who hits a teammate---what did Lucas say that opposing corners haven't said to Smith a million freaking times throughout his career? Cool your jets, pal.

Gay Ork Wang
08-01-2008, 12:01 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp08/news/story?id=3514554

Figured this is more Training Camp worthy than thread worthy.

Steve Smith punched Ken Lucas during practice............

:D Well as long as no one in Chicago punches each other, im happy

Crickett
08-01-2008, 12:02 PM
1 game suspension? Pretty please?

Seriously who hits a teammate---what did Lucas say that opposing corners haven't said to Smith a million freaking times throughout his career? Cool your jets, pal.

Maybe he said that Cesar Romero was a better Joker than Heath Ledger.

:eek:

CC.SD
08-01-2008, 12:08 PM
Maybe he said that Cesar Romero was a better Joker than Heath Ledger.

:eek:

Cesar Romero has more talent in his painted mustache than Heath Ledger ever had!

BamaFalcon59
08-01-2008, 12:10 PM
Steve Smith is a badass.

619
08-01-2008, 12:17 PM
Don't ever mess w/ Smith . Jeez .

MetSox17
08-01-2008, 12:42 PM
7th floor creewww!!

Bills2083
08-01-2008, 12:47 PM
Heres another article that I posted in the Panthers team thread, earlier.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8402640?MSNHPHMA



SPARTANBURG, S.C. (AP) - Carolina Panthers (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/67063) cornerback Ken Lucas (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/70775) was carted off the field with an ice pack above his left eye Friday after a fight with teammate Steve Smith (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/469331).



The melee came while most starters were on the sidelines during a special teams drill at training camp. It was unclear what provoked the fight.

Several players and coach John Fox rushed to both players. Fox tried to separate the two, but it took linebacker Jon Beason (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/469555) to pull Smith off Lucas.

Lucas walked to a tent, holding his head while accompanied by a trainer. Smith was then escorted there by receiver Muhsin Muhammad (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/70940) to talk to Lucas. After being treated for several minutes, the Panthers (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/team/67063)' starting cornerback walked onto a cart and was taken to the locker room. There was no immediate update on the extent of his injuries.

Smith was kicked out of practice and spent several minutes talking to kicker John Kasay (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/player/70929) on an adjacent field. He later walked into the locker room while practice continued.

Fox said it hasn't been determined if Smith will be suspended .
"We haven't had much time to talk about it," he said. "It will be dealt with internally."

The coach said he had an extended talk with the team after the workout.
"Any time something like that happens you're obviously disappointed," he said. "It's part of football and you deal with it."

A three-time Pro Bowl pick, Smith was had had trouble controlling his temper in the past. He was suspended for a game in 2002 after punching teammate Anthony Bright during a film session.
Smith last year signed a contract extension through the 2012 season that makes him one of the NFL's highest-paid receivers.

BamaFalcon59
08-01-2008, 12:50 PM
If Steve Smith gets punished for this then that is dumb. Basically he would be getting suspended for winning a fight, where as Lucas gets off free because he lost.

Harry Douglas took a shot at Lawyer Milloy and nothing was made of it, except Douglas got a pat on the back.

Turtlepower
08-01-2008, 12:50 PM
I'm not just sure, I'm HIV Positive.

PACKmanN
08-01-2008, 12:52 PM
I doubt anyone would be suspended, you see these things happen all the time, remember the Ravens' OTAs.

LonghornsLegend
08-01-2008, 12:55 PM
This is still practice, if anything he might miss a pre-season game...Why are people making a big deal because he connected, there was just a thread about the brawl and everyone said that it was normal.


It just so happens that Smith landed a punch, he's not getting suspended in the regular season for that...But it does make you wish you could hear what him and Deagelo Hall were going back and forth about that last game.

Go_Eagles77
08-01-2008, 12:58 PM
I'm all for anything that might give the slightest chance of Carolina losing more games this year.

Geo
08-01-2008, 01:04 PM
Leopards don't change their spots, eh?

I doubt Smith gets suspended though. The front office and coaching staff are trying to save their jobs this season, and they need the best player on the entire roster by a mile when playing against San Diego in Week 1.

BamaFalcon59
08-01-2008, 01:05 PM
You can't change the stripes of a leopard you mean, per say.

MetSox17
08-01-2008, 01:12 PM
You can't change the stripes of a leopard you mean, per say.

Smiff pity's the fool that maybe doesn't right his quotes. Possibly.

Bills2083
08-01-2008, 01:13 PM
You can't change the stripes of a leopard you mean, per say.

haha. here are some of my other favorite quotes by him...

"Tom Brady is buyin' time for his lineman."
"The NFC West is probably one of the weakest conferences in the whole NFC.

Saint Michael
08-01-2008, 01:19 PM
Chuck Norris wears Steve Smith's PJ's to bed.

BamaFalcon59
08-01-2008, 01:20 PM
Ya'll have to remember to include per say, here say, and possibly between each sentense.

Staubach12
08-01-2008, 01:45 PM
Leopards don't change their spots, eh?

http://www.theheckler.com/news/thumbnails/1776.gif

Stripes. Get it right.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
08-01-2008, 01:46 PM
i guess this was thread worthy.....

Saint Michael
08-01-2008, 01:57 PM
i guess this was thread worthy.....I'm sorry.

Geo
08-01-2008, 02:19 PM
Name change for the thread indicate more details revealed? :D

locseti
08-01-2008, 03:18 PM
The thing that makes this situation with Smith different is that he's bucking fools on the sidelines and in the film room - not in the heat of competition. He don't play, he'll catch yo ass in traffic if he can't getcha on the sideline, weight room, film room, locker room, or parking lot. Steve Smith is gonna getcha.

LonghornsLegend
08-01-2008, 03:58 PM
When I first read i just KNEW that it was Dwayne Jarrett that he clocked lol.

Ravens1991
08-01-2008, 04:03 PM
I doubt he gets suspended, like 5 fights have happened in Ravens training camp. A rookie had got in 2 already.

CC.SD
08-01-2008, 04:10 PM
When I first read i just KNEW that it was Dwayne Jarrett that he clocked lol.

I definitely thought that too. He finally reached the breaking point.

Merlin
08-01-2008, 06:45 PM
After last season, Smith new he had to get back "in the light" this incident will probably be the biggest impact he'll make all year ;-)

T-RICH49
08-01-2008, 07:53 PM
I doubt he gets suspended, like 5 fights have happened in Ravens training camp. A rookie had got in 2 already.

agreed.heck I heard Damion McIntosh got into it with Dorsey.fights happen it's almost things you expect

Byrd430
08-01-2008, 08:24 PM
Ken let me down! He from my town!

REMATCH!! REMATCH!! REMATCH!!


Seriously, though, I don't read too much into these incidences. On one hand, it's bad that Smith hit his teammate. On the other, at least they have some fight in them, which is really what you need come late November-December to succeed. Eh, toss it out...

The Unseen
08-01-2008, 10:10 PM
Big John Henderson got in a fight with Maurice Williams.

Lucky for Williams Henderson wasn't hungry...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4cXZGkRMCY

T-RICH49
08-01-2008, 10:21 PM
Big John Henderson got in a fight with Maurice Williams.

Lucky for Williams Henderson wasn't hungry...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4cXZGkRMCY



John Henderson is NOT a dude to be messing with you

neko4
08-01-2008, 10:26 PM
1 game suspension? Pretty please?

Seriously who hits a teammate---what did Lucas say that opposing corners haven't said to Smith a million freaking times throughout his career? Cool your jets, pal.

Guys on my HS team do.
It appears my team has the same problems as them

bantx
08-01-2008, 10:51 PM
Big John Henderson got in a fight with Maurice Williams.

Lucky for Williams Henderson wasn't hungry...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4cXZGkRMCY

sweet jesus he is a monster

zCaddyz
08-02-2008, 01:01 AM
smith is just a big soft, he was just trying to hug him http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s243/zcaddyz/smithpx5.jpg

dpl85
08-02-2008, 02:59 AM
Normally his anger and agression are useful on the field but there's really no reason to puch a teammate in the face. It seems pretty obvious to me that Steve Smith has a small man's complex. A lot of men that are about his size or smaller often feel the need to prove their toughness even when they're not being threatened. And growing up in the hood probably just exacerbated that complex. Did I really just use the word exacerbate? It sounds too similiar to another word lol.

iloxygenil
08-02-2008, 09:29 AM
Smith is a friggin punk man. Always has been always will be. Deangelo got the wrap for his BS last season, but that was Smith too.

I don't think the fight was the problem, I think there's more to this story than that, TC fights are normally a swing a miss and a cloud of dust. They end really quickly without any major detriment to either player, unless they close fist a helmet. They may very well suspend him because you just can't go after someone like that on your own team with the intent to harm. Tempers flare sure, but because someone gets you doesn't mean you can come up and just cheap shot em.

There has to be more to this story.

ShutDwn
08-02-2008, 09:34 AM
This is still practice, if anything he might miss a pre-season game...Why are people making a big deal because he connected, there was just a thread about the brawl and everyone said that it was normal.


It just so happens that Smith landed a punch, he's not getting suspended in the regular season for that...But it does make you wish you could hear what him and Deagelo Hall were going back and forth about that last game.

yayyy someone with some sense.

I find the topic name funny, mostly because a saint fan said it.

Gay Ork Wang
08-02-2008, 09:53 AM
Name change for the thread indicate more details revealed? :D
nope Geo change it

xooberon
08-02-2008, 12:04 PM
Smith suspended 2 games (http://www.carolinagrowl.com/Read.aspx?Story=651)

well that sucks...

619
08-02-2008, 12:07 PM
Smith suspended 2 games (http://www.carolinagrowl.com/Read.aspx?Story=651)

well that sucks...

Hackett's fantasy value just skyrocketed ..

BeerBaron
08-02-2008, 12:14 PM
Hackett's fantasy value just skyrocketed ..

only if moose/jarrett can take some pressure off of him those 2 games, lol

this sucks for the panthers and imo, is an incredibly stupid move by smith. Should the panthers lose those 2 games and miss out on the playoffs by just a game or two, you know where some blame will fall......

....but I bet the Eagles love the idea of the Panthers screwing up

Go_Eagles77
08-02-2008, 12:15 PM
....but I bet the Eagles love the idea of the Panthers screwing up

Got that right. :D

Burns336
08-02-2008, 12:58 PM
Whats up with Dwayne Jarrett anyway? Is he going to do something this year or does he still suck?

619
08-02-2008, 01:30 PM
Whats up with Dwayne Jarrett anyway? Is he going to do something this year or does he still suck?

Meh, he still sucks .

The Great Jonathan Vilma
08-02-2008, 01:45 PM
Good for the Panthers. They showed a lot of character by treating him as 'another guy' on the team, and not as a 'star'. Some teams may have just played the part of these thigns happen and we deal with it with no real punishment. I think the Panthers came out of this looking real professional.

ChezPower4
08-02-2008, 01:48 PM
Meh, he still sucks .

Sounds like all of the Mike Williams, Jarrett comparisons were on the money

Flyboy
08-02-2008, 02:22 PM
Lawlz. Oh, Steve Smith.

CC.SD
08-02-2008, 03:09 PM
Suspended 2 games!

Geo
08-02-2008, 04:49 PM
I'm surprised the Panthers suspended him for not just one game but two, I didn't think they had it in them. That it was two games infers Smith went off on Lucas beyond just an impulsive swing, and that's not called for.

Flyboy
08-02-2008, 04:51 PM
I'm surprised the Panthers suspended him for not just one game but two, I didn't think they had it in them. That it was two games infers Smith went off on Lucas beyond just an impulsive swing, and that's not called for.

I heard Lucas tried to go low on Smith (knee area) which caused the punch?

BamaFalcon59
08-02-2008, 05:37 PM
Panthers will start 0 and 2 then I reckon.

BlindSite
08-02-2008, 06:01 PM
To clarify the issue:

Before the fight Lucas was covering Smith in some drills and made a good play over Smith, the two had been battling all morning, within which I'm doubting there was a lot of fair play from either player.

After that Ken Lucas made the better play on the last play of the practice getting what could be called the last laugh.

Ken Lucas then taunted Smith that he got the better of him.

Steve Smith retorted insulting Ken Lucas about getting a nose job which is or isn't true its all speculative.

Len Lucas then retorted with something else.

Steve Smith rose to his feet walked over to Lucas who kept Jawing and punched him in the face. They scuffled, they were separated.

Smith bloodied Lucas who was taken to a tent.

Beason and Muhummad calmed smith down who started to cry in remorse at what he'd done to a friend, he walked over to lucas, the two hugged.

The team overreacted, sent Smith home to Charlotte then later imposed a 2 game ban.

imo 2 games is really quite excessive. Lucas and Smith ALWAYS fight in training camp, Lucas is very much like a DeAngelo Hall in that he loves to talk and smith is the same way so there's always going to be sparks. I think that its detrimental to the team to suspend him for 2 games since he basically makes our offense anything other than useless a lot of the time. Why not fine him some money and then donate it to some kind of anti violence group.

2 Games is going to hurt bad because if we had any chance in hell of beating SD is was going to involve Steve Smith and he LOVES playing Chicago and last time only put up 200 yards on their defense so this really sucks.

Gay Ork Wang
08-02-2008, 06:32 PM
last time was two years ago.....and ur team looked alot better then

BlindSite
08-02-2008, 07:08 PM
This is probably the best team the Panthers have fielded since 03 and I am including 05.

bigbluedefense
08-02-2008, 08:36 PM
I think Fox is trying to make a statement. As odd as it sounds, this type of stance can bring a team together.

The reaction of Lucas's teammates when he came to practice the following day speaks for itself. Don't underestimate team unity and chemistry.


Kudos to Fox, and this should be a wakeup call to Smith. Im sure he realized his mistake, but enough is enough. Sometimes it takes stern discipline to finally get the point across and make it stick.

yo123
08-02-2008, 11:32 PM
Wait...so Lucas threw the first punch and Smith gets suspended two games?

Staubach12
08-03-2008, 12:31 AM
Wait...so Lucas threw the first punch and Smith gets suspended two games?

No, read it again. Smith punched Lucas first.

Bosanac01
08-03-2008, 03:10 AM
The suspension will be reduced, bet on it.

BlindSite
08-03-2008, 07:22 PM
It won't besides the panthers were likely to split their first two games WITH smith in the line up. IMO it wont be a stretch for them to do so without smith on the team.

IMO The Panthers are a stronger unit that chicago even without smith and not as strong as SD with smith...

GB12
08-03-2008, 07:25 PM
It won't besides the panthers were likely to split their first two games WITH smith in the line up. IMO it wont be a stretch for them to do so without smith on the team.

IMO The Panthers are a stronger unit that chicago even without smith and not as strong as SD with smith...
I don't know, I think I'd pick the Bears there.

BlindSite
08-03-2008, 08:04 PM
He did an interview and seems pretty contrite.

Shiver
08-04-2008, 08:26 AM
To me this was another case of unsurprising news. This isn't the first time Steve Smith has punched a teammate. The guy has issues with anger management. Fortunately for him he's too important to the Panthers' success on the field. In fact, I think that Carolina could be staring at 0-2 because of this decision.

litlharsh
08-04-2008, 08:47 AM
Beason and Muhummad calmed smith down who started to cry in remorse at what he'd done to a friend, he walked over to lucas, the two hugged.

hahahaha lol

BSD
08-04-2008, 08:57 AM
They HAD to suspend him for 2 games. Smith was already suspended for a game a few years ago for something similar. You can't just keep giving a guy chances.

Flyboy
08-04-2008, 10:14 AM
Trade him out of the NFC South imo.

Addict
08-04-2008, 11:43 AM
he cried? that's your 2 game ban right there.

Gay Ork Wang
08-04-2008, 12:18 PM
Trade him out of the NFC South imo.
trade him to the bears imo

BlindSite
08-04-2008, 07:18 PM
To me this was another case of unsurprising news. This isn't the first time Steve Smith has punched a teammate. The guy has issues with anger management. Fortunately for him he's too important to the Panthers' success on the field. In fact, I think that Carolina could be staring at 0-2 because of this decision.

It was 7 years between instances and since then he's come a long, long way.

Regardless what makes steve smith a great receiver? His anger, his drive, his passion, the fact that he plays pissed off more than anything else. You can't just switch that off when you come off the field. Things like this happen and its been dealt with.

I'm not worried about Chicago in the least. Fox knows how to beat a tampa two defense and chicago will be starting the winner of a QB battle between two guys who'd be back ups nearly every where else, a rookie LT against Peppers and a rookie RB, not to mention a proverbial, who's that, rather than who's who at WR.

Their offense will not match up well against the Panthers D. It'll be a close game but the better running game will win it and I like the mix of Stewart and Williams over Forte and Peterson.

regoob2
08-04-2008, 10:13 PM
trade him to the bears imo
I second this. No 1st rounder though.

BlindSite
08-04-2008, 10:20 PM
Smith would be worth two first rounders.

D-Unit
08-04-2008, 10:22 PM
TO? Yes. Tank Johnson? Yes. Pacman Jones? Yes. Steve Smith. No.

Now here's a guy that would disrupt what we have going.

jballa838
08-04-2008, 11:06 PM
Cowboys + Smith = Championship nearly guaranteed.
Then all they have to do is trade that Romo bum straight up for Jesus Brennan.

Caddy
08-04-2008, 11:32 PM
Smith would be worth two first rounders.

He might be worth it but there is no way in hell a team would give up that kind of compensation.

21ST
08-04-2008, 11:39 PM
Well it wasnt like the panthers were going to do any good this year but its sucks for them

BlindSite
08-05-2008, 01:07 AM
Well it wasnt like the panthers were going to do any good this year but its sucks for them

Are you insane?

A 7-9 team with David Carr at the helm isn't going to do worse with Jake Delhomme back. People act like the team got worse from last year instead of better. Its not like we're the freakin' dolphins or the falcons.

Peppers was ill all last year in camp and never got back to his normal weight and fitness level. This year he is in the best shape and the fastest he's ever been. Plus he'll be facing 6 rookie players this year. Easy picken's for the guy imo.

There is absolutely no reason, all things remaining equal why the Panthers won't have a winning season.

Smith missing for 2 games, one of which we would lose almost for sure anyway isn't that big of a deal. The game against chicago isn't that huge of a deal without smith the team still has weapons.

Besides which this talk of trading smith is utterly ridiculous, he's not going anywhere.

regoob2
08-05-2008, 06:27 AM
Are you insane?

A 7-9 team with David Carr at the helm isn't going to do worse with Jake Delhomme back. People act like the team got worse from last year instead of better. Its not like we're the freakin' dolphins or the falcons.

Peppers was ill all last year in camp and never got back to his normal weight and fitness level. This year he is in the best shape and the fastest he's ever been. Plus he'll be facing 6 rookie players this year. Easy picken's for the guy imo.

There is absolutely no reason, all things remaining equal why the Panthers won't have a winning season.

Smith missing for 2 games, one of which we would lose almost for sure anyway isn't that big of a deal. The game against chicago isn't that huge of a deal without smith the team still has weapons.

Besides which this talk of trading smith is utterly ridiculous, he's not going anywhere.What weapons do you have without Smith?

BlindSite
08-05-2008, 07:14 AM
DeAngelo Williams, Mushin Muhummad, DJ Hackett, Johnathen Stewart, Jeff King (13th among tight ends last year in receptions.

2 solid receivers, 2 great running backs and an emerging tight end Jake Delhomme has played well without Smith in the past. The weapons aren't perfect but the offense won't be a one man show this year.

Smith's absence won't cause a loss to chicago.

The game will be orientated around ball control and defense and while chicago has the better defense their offense is by far inferior at every single position except for center and maybe right guard. Carolina has the edge everywhere else, including their track record against chicago and the tampa two defensive scheme in general.

Its no lock, but chalking it up as a loss, just because Smith is gone is really, really, stupid.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-05-2008, 08:17 AM
PANTHERS DONE WITH SMITH?
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/08/04/panthers-done-with-smith/

xooberon
08-05-2008, 08:30 AM
Absolutely no chance we trade Smith.

THE END

Northern Lights
08-05-2008, 08:30 AM
DeAngelo Williams, Mushin Muhummad, DJ Hackett, Johnathen Stewart, Jeff King (13th among tight ends last year in receptions.

2 solid receivers, 2 great running backs and an emerging tight end Jake Delhomme has played well without Smith in the past. The weapons aren't perfect but the offense won't be a one man show this year.

Sorry, but what exactly has Williams, Muhummad, Hackett, or King shown to be considered anything other than average or subpar players?

If you consider DeAngelo Williams a great runningback I don't really know games you're watching. Stewart is an unknown as of now.

The receivers are subpar at best without Smith there. Muhumaad is like 35+ years old and you can't expect him to do much of anything this year. Hackett is subpar as well.

Without Smith, the Panthers, to put it frankly, have a terrible set of offensive weapons.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-05-2008, 09:12 AM
Sorry, but what exactly has Williams, Muhummad, Hackett, or King shown to be considered anything other than average or subpar players?

If you consider DeAngelo Williams a great runningback I don't really know games you're watching. Stewart is an unknown as of now.

The receivers are subpar at best without Smith there. Muhumaad is like 35+ years old and you can't expect him to do much of anything this year. Hackett is subpar as well.

Without Smith, the Panthers, to put it frankly, have a terrible set of offensive weapons.


I was thinking the same thing.

Williams really isn't use as much and started only 2 games if I am not mistaken. He has potential, but now needs to translate that. Stewart is a rookie and so he shouldn't really count. He has potential and but can't count him as a weapon yet until he proves he can. I'd put him in the "rookie with potential category".

Hackett is ok, nothing to brag about, and MM is like 90 years old. Outside of Smith, Carolina's offense is hurting. They need Smith, and hopefully Jake D. stays healthy this year.

yourfavestoner
08-05-2008, 11:33 AM
didn't you guys know that every player on the panthers is the greatest player everzzzzzzzzz

Go_Eagles77
08-05-2008, 11:41 AM
I know it's not going to happen but it would be pretty funny if we traded the panthers back their 1st rounder for Smith.

eaglesalltheway
08-05-2008, 11:45 AM
I don't think the Egels would even consider it though, especially after this last fight. It would be funny though.

iowatreat54
08-05-2008, 11:55 AM
lol Moose an offensive weapon, that's too good

don't get me wrong, I loved him when he was here, but he is an average 2nd WR at best and that's pushing it

plus, Steve Smith has beaten the Bears single handedly in the past, not the Panthers team in general, they pretty much shut down everyone except Smith...so missing Smith vs. the Bears is something you should definitely worry about

CC.SD
08-05-2008, 12:09 PM
DeAngelo Williams, Mushin Muhummad, DJ Hackett, Johnathen Stewart, Jeff King (13th among tight ends last year in receptions.
.

This is not an impressive list by any measure outside of Panther-land. omg the 13th TE in receptions!!!

619
08-05-2008, 12:26 PM
DeAngelo Williams, Mushin Muhummad, DJ Hackett, Johnathen Stewart, Jeff King (13th among tight ends last year in receptions.

2 solid receivers, 2 great running backs and an emerging tight end Jake Delhomme has played well without Smith in the past. The weapons aren't perfect but the offense won't be a one man show this year.

Smith's absence won't cause a loss to chicago.

The game will be orientated around ball control and defense and while chicago has the better defense their offense is by far inferior at every single position except for center and maybe right guard. Carolina has the edge everywhere else, including their track record against chicago and the tampa two defensive scheme in general.

Its no lock, but chalking it up as a loss, just because Smith is gone is really, really, stupid.

I sense too much Panthers optimism in this post. In reality most of the players in your offense are either unproven or above average players.

Eagles own the NFC East
08-05-2008, 12:27 PM
Sorry, but what exactly has Williams, Muhummad, Hackett, or King shown to be considered anything other than average or subpar players?

If you consider DeAngelo Williams a great runningback I don't really know games you're watching. Stewart is an unknown as of now.

The receivers are subpar at best without Smith there. Muhumaad is like 35+ years old and you can't expect him to do much of anything this year. Hackett is subpar as well.

Without Smith, the Panthers, to put it frankly, have a terrible set of offensive weapons.

I agree with this post.

Jonathan Stewart is a great runningback? Show me all his great stats in the NFL I have trouble finding them because he hasn't played yet and hes unrproven. I will tell you that DeAngelo is underated though. The rest of the guys are just average dude.

I really hope the Panthers trade Smith but just not to the Cowboys PLEEASSEE. But if they trade Smith, they will suck even more and we have their 1st round pick so it could be a high one.

BlindSite
08-05-2008, 06:24 PM
Mushin Muhummad was an average weapon in Chicago, in Carolina he was a league leader. He has good chemistry with Delhomme and like it or not knows the Chicago defense. I'm not expecting him to be an all world blazer but Delhomme will still look to him on third downs and get effective production from him. A hundred yard day is not out of the question. When you consider that the team was in a similar situation in 06 and Keyshawn had two 100 yard games.

As for the DeAngelo Williams hate he averaged over 5 yards per carry last year and was substituted a lot of the time for Foster because Foster was the better pass protector and knew the offense. Williams has never looked like a bust and its only been a matter of time before he took the reigns of the offense. He's had 100 yard rushing and receiving days and is very elusive and has excellent vision. There's no reason to think he won't play well.

Fox's idea isn't isn't to replace him with Stewart but to run a RBBC and have two backs he can ride for 16 games so he doesn't get them breaking down at the end of the year. Having a first round brusier and a gasher you can change in and out for 40 total carries if need be is a great option to have, just ask Jacksonville.

I don't know how or why this thread has even got so derailed but the fact is that
a) Muhammad can still be an effective receiver in the Carolina offense with Delhomme throwing him the ball
b) DJ Hackett tore it up for 136 yards and a touchdown last time he played Chicago... he is effective against them when fed.
c) Jeff King ranked 13th in his first year as a starter with DAVID CARR throwing him the ball, imo he'll crack the top ten this year, which is more than good considering 4 or so receptions will be enough production out of the position per game.

Besides which, like I said, this game is a defensive one, so I view it like that. What I said was that the team is not without weapons and has a better offensive set than chicago without Smith.

No where did I say the Panthers would beat San Diego, or that any of the players I listed would make the probowl, what I said was that the team has the weapons to beat Chicago in a defensive orientated match up.

iowatreat54
08-05-2008, 06:58 PM
ok I'll play...

1. Booker used to be a threat when he was with the Bears before, so he is a huge weapon now, obviously
2. Kevin Jones (without injury) has proven more than Deangelo and Stewart, so Jones + Forte > Williams + Stewart
3. Clark and Olsen are both better than King

so if Orton/Grossman has an average game, Chicago's offense is better than Carloina's by a ton using your logic

and Chicago's defense will be healthy this year, and should be much better than Carolina's, so this defensive game you think it will be should be in Chicago's favor

EDIT: Dude seriously? you neg rep someone for disagreeing that Carolina's offense doesn't have weapons without Smith? ZZZZOMGGZZZ CAROLINA HAZZ THE GR8EsT OFFENZZZ EVERZZZZ...can I have my rep back now?

BlindSite
08-05-2008, 07:07 PM
1. Booker used to be a threat when he was with the Bears before, so he is a huge weapon now, obviously
2. Kevin Jones (without injury) has proven more than Deangelo and Stewart, so Jones + Forte > Williams + Stewart
3. Clark and Olsen are both better than King

If you change huge to effective or adequate you'd have what I said. I don't know why when someone on this board says "adequate" or "effective" that turns into "probowler" or "elite" in people's minds.

If only you could comprehend simple words.

Kevin Jones was last useful as a rookie and since then hasn't got over the 3.8 yards per carry... DeAngelo williams averaged 5 yards last year and he can actually cut and run without falling down injured. So no, Williams / Stewart > Forte / Jones.

Clark and Olsen are better than King, I acknowledged that. Learn to read.


so if Orton/Grossman has an average game, Chicago's offense is better than Carloina's by a ton using your logic

Grossman was 17 of 41 with 1 TD and 1 INT last time he played carolina, I'm really shaking in my boots...


and Chicago's defense will be healthy this year, and should be much better than Carolina's, so this defensive game you think it will be should be in Chicago's favor

Only on this forum will you be called a homer for thinking your team can beat an offense lead by a back up quarterback and saying you think you've got effective players on offense.

"OMG this guy is a homer he said his team has players who can be effective in this league and beat a team that on paper is inferior... "

iowatreat54
08-05-2008, 07:13 PM
yea, if you didn't catch it I was mocking your logic in the previous post, hence why I said Booker would be huge because he's played on the Bears before (Moose), Jones had a good rookie year and a rookie RB on the Bears are going to dominate (Williams and Stewart), but the Clark/Olsen comment was legit, then saying Chicago will win because their defense is better (since you said it's a defensive game)

if only you had reading comprehension....sigh...

also, you said they were "weapons" and "great running backs", not effective players

and what track record does Carolina have against the Bears under Lovie/similar to this years team besides 05, which one game the Bears were dominated by Carolina's offense for 3 points and another game where they blew them up? Please, explain how outside of that one game 3 years ago Carolina has proven themselves to have the track record to beat the Bears...

(and I'm not saying the Bears will win for sure or that history or whatever is on their side, just pointing out the flaws in your logic as it would seam)

BlindSite
08-05-2008, 07:28 PM
and what track record does Carolina have against the Bears under Lovie/similar to this years team besides 05, which one game the Bears were dominated by Carolina's offense for 3 points and another game where they blew them up? Please, explain how outside of that one game 3 years ago Carolina has proven themselves to have the track record to beat the Bears...

(and I'm not saying the Bears will win for sure or that history or whatever is on their side, just pointing out the flaws in your logic as it would seam)

John Fox has faced the best cover 2 defensive coordinator (monte kiffin) for 12 games over his tenure and has never been soundly beaten with a healthy unit on the field, quite the contrary he's 8 and 4. Not to mention the other times the defense has shown itself against fox, considering Atlanta ran it for a number of years as well.

John Fox knows how to beat a cover 2, he'll game plan now for 7 weeks to face that defense without his star receiver. This isn't like Smith only just went down 5 minutes before a game this is a long time to plan. He can go back a look at the film of what Hackett did against them while he consults with Harris, Wesley and Muhummad about Chicago's tendencies. He has time to plan a game using his running backs, possession receivers and hackett to open up holes and do damage.

You're giving one of the better coaches in the NFL a long, long time to game plan against a good, but beatable defense. While the shoe is on the other foot for chicago I believe that Carolina is the stronger team on paper. That doesn't make me a homer, especially because what I've said about our offensive unit compared to Chicago's is soundly true.

Its kind of hard to call me a homer when in an even matchup (against chicago) I think Carolina will come out on top and that in an uneven one (against San Diego) I think we'll be soundly beaten.

I'd say you can rank carolina's offense without smith a 5 out of ten and chicagos a 3 out of 10.

You can then say Chicago's D is an 8 out 10 and Carolina's is a 6.

Total scores for each team is 11 out of 20. A close match up where game planning and execution will be the key.

iowatreat54
08-05-2008, 07:34 PM
I don't think anyone has called you a homer, I know I haven't...just pointing out that you are giving credit to an unproven rookie, a 2nd year player who is good but you are calling "great", a random TE and a average WR that should be a 2/3 WR but will be #1, unless Hackett is #1 which he could do good but he hasn't proven that he is consistently "great" as you make him out to be and using one game vs. Chicago as proof, what did he do that first game of 05?...it's just the fact that you are assuming a lot of things and acting as if they are facts without a doubt and will be true on gameday

I think it's a toss up as of right now and can't really give an edge to either team, especially because it's what like a month and half away?

BlindSite
08-05-2008, 07:37 PM
I don't think anyone has called you a homer, I know I haven't...just pointing out that you are giving credit to an unproven rookie, a 2nd year player who is good but you are calling "great", a random TE and a average WR that should be a 2/3 WR but will be #1, unless Hackett is #1 which he could do good but he hasn't proven that he is consistently "great" as you make him out to be and using one game vs. Chicago as proof, what did he do that first game of 05?...it's just the fact that you are assuming a lot of things and acting as if they are facts without a doubt and will be true on gameday

I think it's a toss up as of right now and can't really give an edge to either team, especially because it's what like a month and half away?

Williams is a third year player and he is proven. Their tandem makes them a great team, I'm standing by that.

Mushin is a bonafide number 2 in this offense he wouldn't be a three on many teams. Hackett will be number 2 come game day, but he'll run smith's routes, so its really only a superficial thing in the Panthers offense.

Calling it a toss up is fine, I don't expect to be ridiculed for speculating a victory for my team. Like others (not necessarily you) were acting.

How about a friendly sig bet for the rest of the regular season.

If Carolina wins you get a Mushin Muhummad sig. If Chicago wins you can give me whoever you like.

iowatreat54
08-05-2008, 08:02 PM
Williams is a third year player and he is proven. Their tandem makes them a great team, I'm standing by that.

Mushin is a bonafide number 2 in this offense he wouldn't be a three on many teams. Hackett will be number 2 come game day, but he'll run smith's routes, so its really only a superficial thing in the Panthers offense.

Calling it a toss up is fine, I don't expect to be ridiculed for speculating a victory for my team. Like others (not necessarily you) were acting.

How about a friendly sig bet for the rest of the regular season.

If Carolina wins you get a Mushin Muhummad sig. If Chicago wins you can give me whoever you like.

I would bet on NFL, except it's not really high on my priorities...plus I have no idea what the Bears are going to look like so I'd be stupid to bet 2 months before a game

Shiver
08-05-2008, 08:50 PM
This is not an impressive list by any measure outside of Panther-land. omg the 13th TE in receptions!!!


What?! You're not terrified of an offense that has DeAngelo Williams, Mushin Muhammed AND Jeff King? That is crazy talk sir. Don't forget about Jake Delhomme either, he's a top-10 QB.

BlindSite
08-05-2008, 09:33 PM
What?! You're not terrified of an offense that has DeAngelo Williams, Mushin Muhammed AND Jeff King? That is crazy talk sir. Don't forget about Jake Delhomme either, he's a top-10 QB.

Yeah great effort champ, we've already clarified what I meant, long ago. No need to stir the pot again.

I addressed the idiotic posts that were taken out of context a page back, no need to make more of them now.

SchizophrenicBatman
08-05-2008, 11:38 PM
The Panthers at full strength (which they never are) are probably a true talent 9-7 or 10-6 team this year. Obviously luck/schedule/etc could move that up or down a couple games. Without Smith, I'd say 6-10/7-9

Williams IMO could be a top 10 RB in this league in the right situation...but I dont know if Carolina is that situation (not saying he needs a Shaun Alexander in Seattle-esque fit, just a team that plays to his style and believes in him). Stewart is still injured despite the Panthers FO saying he'd be ready for TC so I'm not very optimistic on him for the early season but to completely write him off for being a rookie is pretty asinine considering RB is one of the easiest positions to pick up and half this forum was fawning over him 4 months ago. He doesn't have to be an AD anyway...just a Marshawn Lynch would work pretty well

Muhammad really isn't anything special at his advanced age but he has rapport with Delhomme. Marty Booker returning to the Bears isn't the same situation since that was about 12 quarterbacks ago for them. Hackett has talent but cant stay healthy and also may have system player stigma on him so meh. Not exactly exciting weapons but teams have won with worse

Jeff King could easily be the 3rd TE on the depth chart by the Bye Week so I dont know why he was brought up. Pretty much the only thing he's ever done of note is catch 10 five yard dump-offs from David Carr against the Colts' back ups.

But yea all this suspension does is make the chances of beating the Charges go from 5% to 1 and makes the Bears game a toss up between two terrible offenses with Hester probably being the difference since the Panthers have one of the worst special teams coverage units in the league

Good news for the Eagles I guess