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View Full Version : Who would u rather have on your team?


Gay Ork Wang
08-06-2008, 10:35 AM
Well we had a little conversation on IRC

so who would u rather have on ur team?

Cromartie or Hester?

NY+Giants=NYG
08-06-2008, 10:56 AM
I'd take AC.

Flyboy
08-06-2008, 10:57 AM
Cromartie.

Crickett
08-06-2008, 10:57 AM
Cromartie. I'm a Jets fan and having Cromartie in the same backfield with Darrelle Revis and Kerry Rhodes would be ridiculous.

princefielder28
08-06-2008, 11:00 AM
Devin Hester

Cromartie has proven himself as a very talented CB, but whenever you can have a difference maker like Devin Hester on special teams then there's no way to measure his importance. He can makes plays by himself; he can take it all the way when he touches the ball. If a team decides not to kick to him then that helps the offense just as much, great field position and a better chance to score. Hester shortens the field while Cromartie only eliminates the zone/man he is covering.

Marlo
08-06-2008, 11:02 AM
Antonio Cromartie. I'll take a guy who is a difference maker on all of the defensive snaps than a guy who is a difference maker on less than half the special teams snaps.

Plus, we've all seen returners have a big season or two and then fade into oblivion. That's common place for the position.

gsorace
08-06-2008, 11:03 AM
Cromartie, how is this even close?

bored of education
08-06-2008, 11:04 AM
Cromartie since he actually plays DB!

skinzzfan25
08-06-2008, 11:04 AM
Cro easily.

cdub11
08-06-2008, 11:05 AM
Cromartie, because he will be on the field more

Gay Ork Wang
08-06-2008, 11:06 AM
well i was talking about a new team not on your current favourtie team :)

619
08-06-2008, 11:19 AM
Cromartie is not human .

NY+Giants=NYG
08-06-2008, 11:20 AM
well i was talking about a new team not on your current favourtie team :)

oooo.. Well than it depends. I might take Hester. If he can show versatility, for instance at WR, and progress, then now I have a player who can possible be elite on special teams, and good to very good at WR. His speed alone is a huge factor. So that changes things. I might go Hester.

If it was for my giants I'd take AC though.

bantx
08-06-2008, 11:31 AM
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj184/MattBoswell31/36930_600w600h1.jpg

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f368/lilpapi_001/39364_600w600h.jpg

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh35/chikapu21/39137_600w600h.jpg

need i say more?
Cro-bar for sure devin hester is good but Cro is a beast

Shane P. Hallam
08-06-2008, 11:32 AM
Let's say for an expansion team, I got the choice of one (and then the other was taken off the table).

If that was the case, I would probably take Hester. A return man is the closest thing to absolutely dominating a game you can get in football. With Hester gettings kick-offs and some punts, he could help that team get a few wins under their belt so they can nab FAs.

703SKINS202
08-06-2008, 11:33 AM
Hester is a beast but I agree you have to take the guy who is going to play more and Cromartie is a beast as well so yeah, I'd take Cromartie.

bantx
08-06-2008, 11:34 AM
Let's say for an expansion team, I got the choice of one (and then the other was taken off the table).

If that was the case, I would probably take Hester. A return man is the closest thing to absolutely dominating a game you can get in football. With Hester gettings kick-offs and some punts, he could help that team get a few wins under their belt so they can nab FAs.

a team would just pooch it and wouldnt let him return than hes useless, cromartie is a game changing DB

princefielder28
08-06-2008, 11:38 AM
a team would just pooch it and wouldnt let him return than hes useless, cromartie is a game changing DB

if a team pooches it then it makes the field shorter for the offense; he would make a difference

Addict
08-06-2008, 11:38 AM
Cromartie, Hester needs to be more than a return specialist before I take him over guys like Cromartie.

bantx
08-06-2008, 11:43 AM
if a team pooches it then it makes the field shorter for the offense; he would makes a difference

but what else is hester but a ST threat, dont get me wrong hes great at what he does but why would u choose a kick returner over a DB

keylime_5
08-06-2008, 11:43 AM
Cromartie.

Addict
08-06-2008, 11:45 AM
just remember: having a less-than steller ST won't kill you, however a weak backfield will.

princefielder28
08-06-2008, 11:46 AM
but what else is hester but a ST threat, dont get me wrong hes great at what he does but why would u choose a kick returner over a DB

special teams can be the difference between a good team and a great team; there are very few players in the league like Hester, if any, and while Cromartie is a very talented corner there are others at his position who remain supreme above or are not far behind

Gay Ork Wang
08-06-2008, 11:49 AM
I just feel like, u have alot of options on your backfield, Cromartie isnt the best, i could harldy put him in the Top5 of CBs. IMO Hester is a once in a lifetime player. He improves already on his route running alot and is showing alot of promise.

Addict
08-06-2008, 11:50 AM
special teams can be the difference between a good team and a great team; there are very few players in the league like Hester, if any, and while Cromartie is a very talented corner there are others at his position who remain supreme above or are not far behind

Cribbs? Cromartie, oh irony, can return kicks as well...

Pacman's back in the league he can run one back,

Not to mention two of those guys (Cro and Pacman) are actually pretty damn good DB's too.

bantx
08-06-2008, 11:51 AM
special teams can be the difference between a good team and a great team; there are very few players in the league like Hester, if any, and while Cromartie is a very talented corner there are others at his position who remain supreme above or are not far behind

yes hester is one of the few good at his spots but a decent kick returner can do the job also, but like addict said a id rather fill a DB spot than a kicker returner even if the kick returner is devin hester, dont forget cromartie has kick return ability with speed as fast as hester.

princefielder28
08-06-2008, 11:52 AM
Cribbs? Cromartie, oh irony, can return kicks as well...

Pacman's back in the league he can run one back,

Not to mention two of those guys (Cro and Pacman) are actually pretty damn good DB's too.

Cromartie and Pacman are not on the same level returner wise as Hester or Cribbs; look at how big the improvements in special teams was for cleveland

CJSchneider
08-06-2008, 11:52 AM
Cromartie.
And here is why,
Hester, by no means a lacking player, scores touchdowns (+). Cromartie stops touchdows (--) and gives the ball back to the offense who scores touchdowns (+). I'd be willing to say that what Cromartie stops is at least equal to what Hester adds. IE Cromartie (Pass defelctions, Ints, Tackles) > Hester (TD's via KR, PR or Reception) Not an exact or flawless formula, but a good place to start if you want to analize this statisticly.

bantx
08-06-2008, 11:54 AM
Cromartie and Pacman are not on the same level returner wise as Hester or Cribbs; look at how big the improvements in special teams was for cleveland

the thing is hester is one dimensional, hes nothing more than a kick returner.

Addict
08-06-2008, 12:04 PM
Cromartie and Pacman are not on the same level returner wise as Hester or Cribbs; look at how big the improvements in special teams was for cleveland

I'm not saying they're the same level.

See, my point is Hester and Cribbs both return kicks, and have so far done little else, sure they're both phenomenal at running back whatever's kicked their way, but Pacman and Cromartie aren't bad in that departement themselves. On the other hand there's Cribbs who is essentially one-dimensional and Hester who was no good at CB and is now playing WR.

If (if) Hester becomes a good WR, I may change my mind, but for now he's a great kick returner with decent extra value, while Cromartie is a great CB (maybe not top 5 great, but still great to have) and a good kick returner.

ChezPower4
08-06-2008, 12:04 PM
It's a tough choice but I would have to go with Cromartie. Cromartie is a really good corner and those are pretty hard to find now days. He can also cause turnovers for your defense and is a threat to score when ever the ball is in his hands.

If Hester were father along in his development as a WR I would rather have him because he changes the dynamic of a game because of his return ability on special teams.

bantx
08-06-2008, 12:06 PM
i doubt hester becomes a good receiver playing with the bears

Bills2083
08-06-2008, 12:07 PM
Hester is the better returnman. The most dynamic in the game.

Cromartie is a good returner, and a good cornerback. I'd take Cromartie for my team.

Brent
08-06-2008, 12:08 PM
Cromartie + Clements would be the best CB combination in the NFC West.

ChezPower4
08-06-2008, 12:08 PM
i doubt hester becomes a good receiver playing with the bears

It can happen though, he has shown some flashes of how good he can be. Derrick Mason went from good returner to being a very productive WR, so it can happen, he just needs some time to be developed.

Jensen
08-06-2008, 12:13 PM
I'd take Cromartie on the Cardinals.

Gay Ork Wang
08-06-2008, 12:17 PM
In the last two years, Hester has scored 11 TDs on Punt and Kickoff Returns (without the Superbowl One), 1 Missed Returned Field goal and 2 Receiving TDs.

That makes 14-15 Tds. Guys like Roy Williams (WR) scored 12. Its by no mean a know on Roy Williams who has a lot of TDs take away by scrubs like Shaun McDonald. But he has a great scoring potential and he def gives the Bears great scoring position. If the bears werent ******* losers on offense, they wouldve gotten more points out of it. But really a couple of times he got them into opponent territory and the bears could only settle for a FG

The Great Jonathan Vilma
08-06-2008, 12:21 PM
Cromartie easily. You take the already talented, but still developing DB with all the attributes you want in a corner. Having a guy who can cover top WRs, and make huge plays for your team, is more valuable than a guy who at this point only touches the ball a few times a game. Sure he's amazing when he touches the ball, but he can be eliminated. Kick the ball out of bounds and he's done. Up until this point, he has been a bust at corner and receiver (see college, and don't think he wouldn't be playing them if he would be an asset there thus far in his NFL career).

Cromartie all day every day, at least until we see if Hester can be an above average receiver and still maintain his ST abilities.

Addict
08-06-2008, 12:24 PM
In the last two years, Hester has scored 11 TDs on Punt and Kickoff Returns (without the Superbowl One), 1 Missed Returned Field goal and 2 Receiving TDs.

That makes 14-15 Tds. Guys like Roy Williams (WR) scored 12. Its by no mean a knock on Roy Williams who has a lot of TDs take away by scrubs like Shaun McDonald. But he has a great scoring potential and he def gives the Bears great scoring position. If the bears werent ******* losers on offense, they wouldve gotten more points out of it. But really a couple of times he got them into opponent territory and the bears could only settle for a FG

and he played only 12 games last year, and in a spread offense, with a bum O-line that gave Kitna zero time to throw.

the point isn't that Hester has great return skills, he does. But as of now, he hasn't got anything else than that. It's just return skill. Cromartie offers more.

Yvan Eht Nioj
08-06-2008, 12:32 PM
I love how this guy's feeble attempt to get a player (Hester) from his team more respect backfired miserably.

Gay Ork Wang
08-06-2008, 12:34 PM
i dont want Hester to get more respect. This is a Football forum isnt it? Hester gets enough respect, which is shown by his stats. Guys like Galloway dont get enough respect. We had a discussion on IRC with Bantx so i figured id just put it on here...

princefielder28
08-06-2008, 12:38 PM
I love how this guy's feeble attempt to get a player (Hester) from his team more respect backfired miserably.

no i will not join the navy

ChezPower4
08-06-2008, 01:32 PM
Cromartie easily. You take the already talented, but still developing DB with all the attributes you want in a corner. Having a guy who can cover top WRs, and make huge plays for your team, is more valuable than a guy who at this point only touches the ball a few times a game. Sure he's amazing when he touches the ball, but he can be eliminated. Kick the ball out of bounds and he's done. Up until this point, he has been a bust at corner and receiver (see college, and don't think he wouldn't be playing them if he would be an asset there thus far in his NFL career).

Cromartie all day every day, at least until we see if Hester can be an above average receiver and still maintain his ST abilities.

If their kicking the ball out of bounds on a punt then it's still giving you for the most part because it's not the easiest thing to kick the ball out of bounds accurately. If there doing pouch kick on the kickoff then at worst case the bears are starting at their 30-35 yard line and Hester didn't even have to touch the ball. His presence alone makes the team better.

nfrillman
08-06-2008, 01:33 PM
Cromartie. Defense effects the game more than special teams. It will take Hester years to become a big time WR, if he ever does.

bantx
08-06-2008, 01:33 PM
If their kicking the ball out of bounds on a punt then it's still giving you for the most part because it's not the easiest thing to kick the ball out of bounds accurately. If there doing pouch kick on the kickoff then at worst case the bears are starting at their 30-35 yard line and Hester didn't even have to touch the ball. His presence alone makes the team better.

yeah even that wont help the bears offense

eaglesfan_45
08-06-2008, 01:35 PM
Cromartie easily, playmaker as well as a good corner back where HEster is only a special teams player.

Geo
08-06-2008, 01:38 PM
For an expansion team? Probably Cromartie, need him to start at corner immediately.

For the Colts? Hester.

Who I would rather have? Hester. He's the best return man of all-time, he's going to break more league history in only three years ... that is if teams still kick to him. And I'd try to integrate him into the offense.

ChezPower4
08-06-2008, 01:44 PM
yeah even that wont help the bears offense

How is better field position not helping out the offense? That is a huge help to the offense because it shortens the field for them. Your also just assuming that he's going to be a terrible WR. We wont really know how thats going to work out until this season is over.

bantx
08-06-2008, 01:45 PM
How is better field position not helping out the offense? That is a huge help to the offense because it shortens the field for them. Your also just assuming that he's going to be a terrible WR. We wont really know how thats going to work out until this season is over.

have u seen the bears offense play?

Cribbs>Hester
08-06-2008, 01:49 PM
Antonio Cromartie for sure and its not even close. Devin Hester is a sensational returnman the greatest returnman of all time already, but you can easily kick away from that and not lose too much. Cromartie is going to be on the field during more important downs. If you chose to throw away from him you are becoming easier to read for the defense because you automatically give up half the field ever play. Devin Hester also give you no versitility what so ever. He great at one thing and on thing only. He can't over power anyone, he can't block anyone, he can't tackle anyone, he wont bust any wedges for your team. He is the most one dimensional player "Great" to ever play the game(at least to this point in his career).

Cribbs>Hester
08-06-2008, 01:51 PM
have u seen the bears offense play?

Yeah, and Joshua Cribbs is a better field position returnman anyway. The only reason Hester scores more is because he is lightning fast and Joshua Cribbs isn't at all very fast. He's just a bad dude.

PocketFullOfGloves
08-06-2008, 01:52 PM
People seem to forget that returners tend to be flashes in the pan. I would be surprised if Hester remained even the best returner in the league in the next few seasons, let alone replicated his past success.

Crickett
08-06-2008, 01:54 PM
well i was talking about a new team not on your current favourtie team :)

Well, the title said "your team". But anyway, I'd say Devin Hester on a new team and Cromartie on any team already in the league other than

Green Bay
Oakland
Philadelphia
Minnesota
Chicago
Carolina
Washington
Denver
Dallas

and possibly San Francisco.

The reason for this is the reason that for years I said that if I was making a new team, I'd take Michael Vick over Peyton Manning. Not because he was a better quarterback, but because I felt Vick was the type of quarterback who could have more success with absolutely no talent around him whatsoever. Because on an expansion team, you simply don't know what you're going to get. And all things being worthless, I'm going to go with Hester because given nothing, I think he would impact a team more. But given a roster that could compete with lets say, more than the Dolphins, Falcons and Raiders of 2007, I would go with Cromartie.

619
08-06-2008, 02:02 PM
I think a public poll should have been used here ..

eaglesfan_45
08-06-2008, 02:02 PM
Well, the title said "your team". But anyway, I'd say Devin Hester on a new team and Cromartie on any team already in the league other than

Green Bay
Oakland
Philadelphia
Minnesota
Chicago
Carolina
Washington
Denver
Dallas


I would be estatic if the Eagles got him. I would hope the Eagles played dime packages all year. Or Move Sheldon Brown to FS and Dawkins to SS and have Cro be the #2 or #3 CB. I would want the Eagles putting him in on offense (was a WR recruit out of HS) and he has the hands to do so. I would want the Eagles getting him in on KR, PR and field goal attempts (see Vikings game). He would also free-up Lito so the Eagles could trade him. As soon as I get Madden I'm trading for him!

Crickett
08-06-2008, 02:08 PM
I would be estatic if the Eagles got him. I would hope the Eagles played dime packages all year. Or Move Sheldon Brown to FS and Dawkins to SS and have Cro be the #2 or #3 CB. I would want the Eagles putting him in on offense (was a WR recruit out of HS) and he has the hands to do so. I would want the Eagles getting him in on KR, PR and field goal attempts (see Vikings game). He would also free-up Lito so the Eagles could trade him. As soon as I get Madden I'm trading for him!

I was under the impression that Asante Samuel freed up the Eagles to trade Lito, but they couldn't get any kind of value for him. At least thats the way I understood the story.

I listed those teams because IMO, all of those teams already have 2 or 3 quality corners and as a result, would see more of an upgrade by adding Devin Hester.

PocketFullOfGloves
08-06-2008, 02:11 PM
I was under the impression that Asante Samuel freed up the Eagles to trade Lito, but they couldn't get any kind of value for him. At least thats the way I understood the story.

I listed those teams because IMO, all of those teams already have 2 or 3 quality corners and as a result, would see more of an upgrade by adding Devin Hester.

A lot of those teams have aging corners or guys that are FAs soon...

Plus, Cromartie has flashed the potential to be a top guy in the league. If there's the next Deion Sanders in the league right now, Cromartie is it.

MetSox17
08-06-2008, 02:13 PM
I'd take Cromartie. Teams can find ways to neutralize Devin Hester, and not just by pooch kicking, or kicking away from him. Can't say that i saw many Bears games this year, but when the Cowboys played them, they just completely took him out of the game. He did squat, and they didn't have to sacrifice field position by pooch kicking.

Cromartie is in there every play on defense, giving you an opportunity for a big play. Ten times this year he gave his team field position, while being a threat to take it back to the house (and he has), all the while giving you good to very good coverage on the opposing teams, sometimes, best receiver.

Athletically i'd give the nod to Cromartie, so there's really nothing else to compare. Hester is a one trick pony.

Gay Ork Wang
08-06-2008, 02:16 PM
yeah even that wont help the bears offense
it would most likely help any team that isnt totally ******

Yeah, and Joshua Cribbs is a better field position returnman anyway. The only reason Hester scores more is because he is lightning fast and Joshua Cribbs isn't at all very fast. He's just a bad dude.


thats weird, cause the bears had better average field position then the Browns.

619
08-06-2008, 02:17 PM
I see Hester finally making major strides at the receiver position this season so let's not completely ignore his versatility.

PocketFullOfGloves
08-06-2008, 02:19 PM
I see Hester finally making major strides at the receiver position this season so let's not completely ignore his versatility.

And this is based on what? I could predict that Cromartie is going to start playing two ways next season and be a star WR but if there's nothing to back it up why even bring it up?

bantx
08-06-2008, 02:21 PM
I see Hester finally making major strides at the receiver position this season so let's not completely ignore his versatility.

he hasnt proved that he can play WR, im not doubting it, but as of now hes only one dimensional.

ChezPower4
08-06-2008, 02:30 PM
have u seen the bears offense play?

Yea their offense is not great but you make it sound like their offense is worthless.

bantx
08-06-2008, 02:33 PM
Yea their offense is not great but you make it sound like their offense is worthless.

thats because it is

Gay Ork Wang
08-06-2008, 02:34 PM
Yea their offense is not great but you make it sound like their offense is worthless.
yes they are...

619
08-06-2008, 02:34 PM
And this is based on what? I could predict that Cromartie is going to start playing two ways next season and be a star WR but if there's nothing to back it up why even bring it up?

Difference is Cromartie has not begun playing both ways while Hester has shown some versatility albeit not to his full potential just yet. 20 rec 299 yards 2 TDs is a good start for someone who wasn't a full-time offensive player and was still learning a very complex position. 40+ rec 600+ yards 5 TDs is not out of the question this season imo. Don't get me wrong here either I would still take Cromartie over him in a heartbeat without a doubt.

PocketFullOfGloves
08-06-2008, 02:37 PM
Difference is Cromartie has not begun playing both ways while Hester has shown some versatility albeit not to his full potential just yet. 20 rec 299 yards 2 TDs is a good start for someone who wasn't a full-time offensive player and was still learning a very complex position. 40+ rec 600+ yards 5 TDs is not out of the question this season imo. Don't get me wrong here either I would still take Cromartie over him in a heartbeat without a doubt.

You could probably throw Cromartie in at WR and he could put up 300 yards. Hester didn't show much WR ability last year. He just showed he's fast and excellent in space, two things we already knew about him. It remains to be seen if he can be a consistent threat at WR by breaking the press, running a variety of precise routes, and catching the ball in traffic.

scottyboy
08-06-2008, 02:39 PM
Easy, neither:http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2006/1109/ncf_g_greene_412.jpg

ChezPower4
08-06-2008, 02:53 PM
You could probably throw Cromartie in at WR and he could put up 300 yards. Hester didn't show much WR ability last year. He just showed he's fast and excellent in space, two things we already knew about him. It remains to be seen if he can be a consistent threat at WR by breaking the press, running a variety of precise routes, and catching the ball in traffic.

He's trying to learn a new position, so it's going to take some time for him to develop. Your your judging him on last year alone which is dumb, he did show some flashes last season that he could be a threat at WR and yea he did struggle at times but what do you expect. The last time he played WR was probably in high school and then last year he's trying to play WR in the NFL, of course he's going to have some troubles at first.

Staubach12
08-06-2008, 02:57 PM
Hester is one hell of a player, but Cromartie is on his way to becoming an elite CB, which is a rare commodity in the NFL.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-06-2008, 02:58 PM
To be frank, I would take Hester.

Cromartie was a playmaker who changed that SD defense last year, but interception numbers fluctuate a lot and he's not a shut-down corner by any stretch of the imagination (yet, anyway).

Football is a field position game, and to date I don't believe anyone else in the history of the game has given his team good field position as often as Hester. Personally, I want to wait and see how he works out at wide receiver, but he represents a unique value.

Cribbs>Hester
08-06-2008, 03:05 PM
it would most likely help any team that isnt totally ******




thats weird, cause the bears had better average field position then the Browns.


Can you say because of a better defense? Cleveland never got any midfield turnovers from the defense. Our field position was almost soley on Cribbs return abilities and yes Cribbs average was better than Hester's all year long.

Gay Ork Wang
08-06-2008, 03:06 PM
yes cause the other teams pooched kicked it. Did u actually read that thread? There were like 40 posts and that in this one alone

CC.SD
08-06-2008, 03:18 PM
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj184/MattBoswell31/36930_600w600h1.jpg

It never gets old.



This thread makes me happy...not too sure what to add to it. Cromartie is a beastly returner btw, and has been even before he "broke out" this last year. The fact is, he just doesn't get too many opportunities because why risk it? He's too valuable as a gamechanging CB.

Just got my powder blue Cromartie jersey yesterday...it's the first of the new style of uniforms I've gotten, and I love it dearly.

ChezPower4
08-06-2008, 04:01 PM
To be frank, I would take Hester.

Cromartie was a playmaker who changed that SD defense last year, but interception numbers fluctuate a lot and he's not a shut-down corner by any stretch of the imagination (yet, anyway).

Football is a field position game, and to date I don't believe anyone else in the history of the game has given his team good field position as often as Hester. Personally, I want to wait and see how he works out at wide receiver, but he represents a unique value.

Cromartie has all of the tools to be a shutdown corner, which IMO would make him a better choose than Hester.

Gay Ork Wang
08-06-2008, 04:05 PM
thats a horrible argument though, Leaf had tools to be a pro NFL QB, but he didnt become one

CC.SD
08-06-2008, 04:09 PM
thats a horrible argument though, Leaf had tools to be a pro NFL QB, but he didnt become one

Cromartie is already the All-Pro CB, and he's nowhere near his ceiling. Leaf has no place in this thread.

Gay Ork Wang
08-06-2008, 04:11 PM
no im not saying Cromartie sucks. But to judge someone by their tools is not what i like :D

PACKmanN
08-06-2008, 04:18 PM
just remember: having a less-than steller ST won't kill you, however a weak backfield will.

depends how good the front 7 is. DBs are as good as their front 7 is.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-06-2008, 04:22 PM
Cromartie has all of the tools to be a shutdown corner, which IMO would make him a better choose than Hester.

But he isn't yet. Phillip Buchanon had all the tools to be a shutdown corner, and he was terrible in any system that put him on an island. Cromartie breaks on the ball well and is probably the best athlete we've seen at the position in a while, but he has a ways to go based on last year's performance.

Hester has the tools to be a great deep threat at wideout, but until he becomes one, there's no reason to assume he will.

OSUGiants17
08-06-2008, 04:36 PM
Cro can return and play amazing cornerback, so he gets my vote.

Draft King
08-06-2008, 04:38 PM
But he isn't yet. Phillip Buchanon had all the tools to be a shutdown corner, and he was terrible in any system that put him on an island. Cromartie breaks on the ball well and is probably the best athlete we've seen at the position in a while, but he has a ways to go based on last year's performance.

Hester has the tools to be a great deep threat at wideout, but until he becomes one, there's no reason to assume he will.

Best opinion I've heard yet. Some people are horribly overrating the year Cromartie had, don't get me wrong, he's a dynamic player, but I don't think he even belongs in the top 5 CB's yet. Hester is the most flashy player to EVER be apart of any return team, he is the best the NFL has seen. I'd take that and just as much potential as Cromartie in his respective position.

GB12
08-06-2008, 04:41 PM
I think Cromartie is very overrated. That said I would take him.

Pb&j
08-06-2008, 05:13 PM
What people also forget about Cribbs is that he is also a beast of coverage, he has led the team in ST tackles the past few years, not to mention averaging 30 yards per return last year.

Hester is a great punt returner and a good kick returner and is learning at reciever. Cribbs is a great kick returner, good punt returner who is still learning punts and a GREAT gunner. Always around the ball.

Burns336
08-06-2008, 05:24 PM
A lot of those teams have aging corners or guys that are FAs soon...

Plus, Cromartie has flashed the potential to be a top guy in the league. If there's the next Deion Sanders in the league right now, Cromartie is it.

Cro's style isn't anywhere similar to Deion.

He's more of a bait and break, high risk high reward corner, where as Deion was shut down/don't even ****** look at me.

In other words, Cro has some real dirty ball skills and he is Deion like with the ball in his hands, but as far as coverage, he is nowhere close.


I would take Cro over Hester. The Chargers could put Cro back to return punts if they wanted to and I would predict he would be a top-5 return guy in the league, not to mention he can actually play a position. Hester is a returner and only a returner so far.

bantx
08-06-2008, 05:37 PM
cromartie did all this last year without being a starter but a nickleback he also had more balls deflected than the starters, hes going to be the side they try not to throw to when hes starting

Paranoidmoonduck
08-06-2008, 05:41 PM
cromartie did all this last year without being a starter but a nickleback he also had more balls deflected than the starters, hes going to be the side they try not to throw to when hes starting

Cromartie spent most of his time last year defending the outside. He was a starter for all intents and purposes.

BlindSite
08-06-2008, 06:14 PM
Let's say for an expansion team, I got the choice of one (and then the other was taken off the table).

If that was the case, I would probably take Hester. A return man is the closest thing to absolutely dominating a game you can get in football. With Hester gettings kick-offs and some punts, he could help that team get a few wins under their belt so they can nab FAs.

A potential lock down corner who at worst will be a top 10 at the position and who is so able to out wrestle and out run any receiver bar one or two for the ball is way more valuable than a kick returner of Hester's calibre.

There's a reason why cornerbacks are paid 4th in the league behind QB, LT and DEs.

GB12
08-06-2008, 06:18 PM
A potential lock down corner who at worst will be a top 10 at the position and who is
This is what I mean when I say he's very overrated.

BlindSite
08-06-2008, 06:22 PM
Notice I used the phrases "potential" and "will be"

I realise he's still a ways off, but he's got the athleticism and it seems the drive to do it.

No where did I say he's reached those heights yet.

Shane P. Hallam
08-06-2008, 06:44 PM
Or he could falter, whereas Hester has done this for two years. I'd take him at this point.

BlindSite
08-06-2008, 06:49 PM
I don't think its likely he's going to Falter, you don't play well for two years and then all of a sudden dump in a position like corner back.

CC.SD
08-06-2008, 07:03 PM
Cromartie spent most of his time last year defending the outside. He was a starter for all intents and purposes.

Florence did shift inside to the nickelback when Cro was on the field, but I've no doubt that Florence saw way more snaps overall last year.

Cromartie might not be "Deion-like" in his coverage but is that a fair comparison for a guy entering his second year starting? He's damn good in coverage and only got burned deep once last year by Favre, and arguably by Jamarcus Russell (he tailed off expecting safety help to the inside). Not too shabby I'd say.

scottyboy
08-06-2008, 08:15 PM
depends how good the front 7 is. DBs are as good as their front 7 is.

This much is true. I mean, come on, Kevin Dockery and Geoffery Pope looked good against the Cowboys in the playoffs. Hell, Craig Dahl even started and didn't totally bomb for the Giants, mainly because of our front 7(or Strahan, Osi, Tuck and Pierce..)

BlindSite
08-06-2008, 08:38 PM
No corner back not even Neon Sanders can cover a player without any kind of pass rush hurrying the quarterback.

CC.SD
08-06-2008, 08:44 PM
Cornerback: Front 7 :: KR: Blockers

smittyjs
08-06-2008, 09:12 PM
Cromartie and Pacman are not on the same level returner wise as Hester or Cribbs; look at how big the improvements in special teams was for cleveland
I would take pacman over cribbs anyday of the week, pacman is the 2nd best returner in the game when he is one the field, the man can make people miss like crazy.

619
08-06-2008, 09:22 PM
Or he could falter, whereas Hester has done this for two years. I'd take him at this point.

I know where you are coming from but don't get me wrong Cro is the real deal ! And yes, he and Deion have very contrasting styles though I do expect Cro to become more of a shutdown / lockdown corner as less teams continue to look his way as this season progresses.

jballa838
08-06-2008, 09:30 PM
Corners are a lot harder to come by then a returner (IE: Cribbs, Pacman, Dante Hall, etc.) so based on that alone I'd take Cro. Hester has a lot lower of ceiling compared to Cromartie, who is arguably faster and taller/more athletic. Cromartie polishes up and we could have a Deion-esque corner. Hester IMO has a lot more room to make up offensively, and will probably end up being what we all wanted Dante Hall to become.

bored of education
08-06-2008, 09:32 PM
I pick the Cro again.

Caddy
08-06-2008, 09:33 PM
Cromartie I think. He is an enigma on defense and the in the return game. You just can't say the same about Hester.

BlindSite
08-06-2008, 09:36 PM
You can win in the playoffs without having a decent returner, you can't win without a decent corner.