PDA

View Full Version : Thule's Ten NFL Truths


thule
08-12-2008, 05:57 PM
#1) Packers need no Faver
Well I figured you couldn't have a NFL truths up at this time of the year without starting it off with the biggest thing to hit the USA since sliced bread. The Green Bay Packers are once again going to be the class of the NFC North. Lets face it...they have a ton of weapons...even adding addition of Jordy Nelson to the equation. The young RB's have had another offseason in the weight room and in the film room. Aaron Rodgers has been sitting for 3 years...if he wasn't the answer now he never was going to be. Bottom line is this team is one of the youngest in the NFL....and although they lost a HOF QB...this team shouldn't fall off with his departure. We are talking about a team that has depth...studs in key positions and has something to prove. The only weakness I see on this team is the talent in the deep secondary...I'm not sure if Collins is going to go back to the playmaker he was in his rookie year. Now I'm not stupid enough to think the packers are going to pull off another 13-3 season...but that has nothing to do with the loss of farve...and everything to do with the other teams in their division improving. I'm think 10 or 11 wins...gets them the 2nd seed in the Playoffs and a NFL North Division Championship.

2) Top 3 out of 4 is bad in 2008?
So many of us were excited on draft day. Yet when you think back to the draft you realize that the top 3 offensive picks really are going to have to exceed expectations to even be in the running for OROY this year. Jake Long is a great lineman...but this isn't the Big 10 anymore...He is going to get beat this season....and really I'm not going to put a ton of blame on him...but when you have to cover up your #1 overall pick by running the ball 30 times a game I have trouble justifying the selection. Sparano is a hell of a coach and if anyone can get the most out of Long it will be him...but I just don't think his feet were as nimble as advertised...which isn't a big deal...but against the elite rushers in the league he just isn't going to have a chance. Matt Ryan...this was a great pick for the Falcons but this is going to be like almost every other rookie qb in the league their rookie year...total abuse. Now Ryan is intelligent which will help...but nothing is going to keep him from getting beat up behind that patchy line...and just going along the progression almost all starting rookie qb's go through. I'm looking for about 60% completion percentage and about 50/50 td:int ratio his first year. Lastly Darren McFadden...as a cowboys fan I had to hear about this all year long...but I really can't get over the fact that the raiders took him. We are talking about a guy playing a position where it's been well documented you can find production later and cheaper...yet he goes top three to a team that already had 3 efficient runners. Now idk if Fargas is as dynamic as DMac...but I do know that Fargas is more productive per dollar. And crazy al really is crazy in my mind...I just don't see enough touches going around...and if I draft a RB top 3 I'm going to try to get the ball in his hands atleast 18-20 times a game...and I'm not sure if McFadden is going to see that this year or not. I loved DMac as a prospect but I absolutely hate the fit.

Beast known as the East
I'm not talking about the NFC East tho...I'm talking about the soon to be most improved division in football. The patriots are the cream of the crop in the NFL...no use telling you guys stuff you already know. But I'm extremely high on the dolphins and Bills this year. The Jets with the addition of Brett Farve only get better. Every team in that division this year has improved...and I'm looking at a big turn around for the dolphins...7-9 is a distinct possibility which is huge in a division where you play the pats twice a year. The Bills are a team I really began to follow last year...and it seemed every game they played was within 3 points either way. I'm looking for more consistency out of the QB position in Buffalo and I see no reason why they can't make a bid into the playoffs. The wild card into making this division a success is the Jets. Now I'm not one of those naive Farve fans that think that the Jets are now legit super bowl contenders...but the team is young and if the defense can take it to the next level Farve should at least be able to keep the running game easier with his presence alone on the field.

4) Brady Quinn where can he win?
I was a huge Brady Quinn fan when he came out...loved what I heard about him last offseason and then WHAM...Anderson comes in and lights it up. Anderson doesn't look like he is letting up either. Although he had a down end of the season last year...something like more INT's then TD's in his last 8 games he got his new 3 year deal in feburary...and you got to believe that the browns love his gamer mentality. The knock on Quinn I've been hearing this offseason is not being aggressive enough...choosing to check down rather than force it. Now if Anderson struggles the first five or so games in Cleveland this year I think we see Quinn get his shot...but to be honest...with that much talent on offense I find it hard to believe a QB wouldn't be able to win with that team. Although we can't overlook the loss of Big Joe at WR...as he was there 3rd down machine with his size...something that has seemingly gone unreplaced(not a word) this offseason.

5) The boys are back in town
Yes I am going ahead and predicting the first playoff victory for the cowboys in 12 years. The reason is...they are due...they have outplayed their opponents in there last two appearances and came away just short both times. They have upgraded their biggest weakness (cb) and made it a strength with the additions of Pacman/Jenkins/Scandrick. The brought in veteran leadership to a team that has really been lacking in that department on the defensive side of that ball in Zach Thomas. They picked up a better compliment for MB3 in Felix Jones...and on top of that they resigned all their targeted team FA's this offseason. We are talking about marquee guys like Flozell Adams/Terrell Owens/Terrence Newman/Marion Barber/Ken Hamlin these guys are key components...and oh yea did I mention that we also retained our offensive coordinator Jason Garrett? What about the addition in the secondary with coach Dave Campo? All and all this team has no excuse not to execute this year...and they will be the cream of the crop in the NFC 12-4.

6) Pittsburgh who?
Thats what I think about when I watch TV nowadays...no one seems to be talking about the Steelers. And this is really a crying shame. If you look at the division who do they really have? The Bengals still have a porous defense the ravens are undergoing a new coaching staff change....with either Troy Smith or Kyle Boller as their starter? The Browns are up and coming...but that defense still isn't going to keep them in ballgames against the elite teams. Bottomline is the Steelers are good...and sure people are making a deal about losing some peices on the offensive line...but they added another RB to the mix...have a healthy Willie Parker...Holmes and Ben seem to have upped their game to another level and Ward is still Ward. I'm not expecting much of a change at all this year for the Steelers offense...I mean it's not like big ben didn't get knocked around last year....through the 2nd half of the season he trailed only Tom Brady in passer rating...so I expect a little more out of the Steelers offense this year. Has the Steelers defense changed in the last 10 years? If so I haven't noticed it....Hampton is going to be ready for the opener from what I've been reading...and Troy should be ready to go as well...I'm looking for big things out of Pittsburgh and they should have the division title at the end of the season. Looking for about 11 wins for them this year.

7) OROY
I'm going to have to go with a guy who I feel can step in from day one on a team where he should get a lot of time. Jonathan Stewart over in Carolina has been tearing it up in training camp and has been reported that he is playing like a man amongst boy's over there. Stewart I believe is going to see some special teams work as well which should only help his cause for ROY. Having Steve Smith suspended for the first two games shouldn't hurt his stats either...if he stays healthy he really should have a great shot of taking home the title. Looking for over 1000 total yards and atleast 10 TD's to get him to win this award.

8) DROY
The first thought I wanted to give the nod to Aqib Talib...a kid I'm expecting huge things from as a rookie...but I'm not sold that there is going to be enough hype down in TB to give this kid the props he deserves so I'm going to go with Kenny Phillips. Phillips has been lights out in camps from reports...supposedly hitting everything in site....which is good and bad...but Phillips is in a good situation with a strong NY pass rush and should be in position to make a ton of plays for that defense this year. If he plays the way he can play I really don't see anyone taking it away from him. Look for him to get atleast 5 picks...and about 90 tackles.

9) MVP
Tony Romo. In order for dallas to get over the hump this year...it is going to take the very best of Tony Romo for 16 straight games this year. Tony Romo has only started 26 games so far in his career...and yet it is hard to find a more productive QB during those times. People say he doesn't play well in big games...but 2006 Colts game and 2007 Packers game ring a bell of when he played well in big games...where both teams were undefeated over halfway through the season. If Tony can put it together...he has all the weapons he needs this year to put together a MVP type season...factor in that this is his second year in Garretts offense...he doesn't have an excuse not to be in the running. He broke quite a few passing records in dallas last year...I look for him to improve on those numbers this year. To win the MVP he is going to have to be right around that 65% completion percentage with about 4400 yards with a td:int ration of 2:1. If he does this...should give him a qb rating of just over 100 and put him in a legit spot to win the MVP award.

10) Superbowl Champions?
I'm going to have to go with the Indianapolis Colts this year over the Saints. The Colts are just about the same team as last year...with Sanders returning..and Addai and Gonzalez getting another year under their belt...I look for Peyton to add to his status as a top QB of all time. The Saints just won't have the secondary to stop Indy's passing attack. Final Score 35-24


for boe
Off the Wall shots
1) Giants won't make the playoffs...and their losses that weren't addressed as well as other teams in the division
2) Laurence Maroney will have over 1500 yards in rushing..which is about 670 more yards than last year
3) Chester Taylor will have ypc than Adrian Peterson
4) Troy Smith won't start opening week but will by midway through the season
5) Both Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton will start a game as the Bears QB
6) Felix Jones will better and MORE productive than Darren McFadden (sorry for the number10 reference) will have more yards from scrimmage.

bearsfan_51
08-12-2008, 05:59 PM
*cough* Dallas homer *cough*

thule
08-12-2008, 06:11 PM
*cough* Dallas homer *cough*

It's not a coincidence that they are only a +425 on the ML down in vegas right now or 6/1 on bodog to win the superbowl....in both cases 2nd best odds to win it all behind the pats. I really tried to keep homerism out of this as much as possible.

bored of education
08-12-2008, 06:16 PM
Way to go out on a limb with some of thoses. lol

Nice read though!

thule
08-12-2008, 06:17 PM
Way to go out on a limb with some of thoses. lol

Nice read though!

There is a reason these are truths and not guesses :P

bored of education
08-12-2008, 06:19 PM
There is a reason these are truths and not guesses :P


:) :) :) :)

thule
08-12-2008, 06:28 PM
Added some off the wall thoughts for you BOE

LonghornsLegend
08-12-2008, 06:28 PM
*cough* Dallas homer *cough*

Oh please come one now, you act like he's a Bears fan and said his team was going to win the super bowl, saying Dallas is due to win a playoff game is far from a homer statement, neither is Romo for MVP as I've seen it in countless magazines, I wish people around here would stop acting like you can't say anything positive about your own team or your a homer:rolleyes:






7) OROY
I'm going to have to go with a guy who I feel can step in from day one on a team where he should get a lot of time. Jonathan Stewart over in Carolina has been tearing it up in training camp and has been reported that he is playing like a man amongst boy's over there. Stewart I believe is going to see some special teams work as well which should only help his cause for ROY. Having Steve Smith suspended for the first two games shouldn't hurt his stats either...if he stays healthy he really should have a great shot of taking home the title. Looking for over 1000 total yards and atleast 10 TD's to get him to win this award.


I don't disagree with the name as he is a likely choice, but are you sure you didn't get him confused with someone else in terms of him tearing it up at TC? His toe is still keeping him from playing or practicing full speed, Deangelo has been the one tearing it up, J Stew really hasn't done anything up to this point in TC but simple walk throughs and meetings, so I don't really think he has been reported as being a man amongst boys because he hasn't been going full speed yet.

bored of education
08-12-2008, 06:32 PM
Thanks thule. I really enjoy those.

thule
08-12-2008, 06:33 PM
Oh please come one now, you act like he's a Bears fan and said his team was going to win the super bowl, saying Dallas is due to win a playoff game is far from a homer statement, neither is Romo for MVP as I've seen it in countless magazines, I wish people around here would stop acting like you can't say anything positive about your own team or your a homer:rolleyes:








I don't disagree with the name as he is a likely choice, but are you sure you didn't get him confused with someone else in terms of him tearing it up at TC? His toe is still keeping him from playing or practicing full speed, Deangelo has been the one tearing it up, J Stew really hasn't done anything up to this point in TC but simple walk throughs and meetings, so I don't really think he has been reported as being a man amongst boys because he hasn't been going full speed yet.

I've just been reading...so I can't be sure...but here is some stuff I ran across.

RB – Rookie RB Jonathan Stewart is already making believers out of his teammates with powerful running and a devastating stiff arm. Given the Panthers stated goal to emphasize the power running game he may already be the starter come game one. I still expect incumbent DeAngelo Williams to gets his share of plays but I expect them to be suited to his running style. Contrary to my previous opinions on who will start at RB I now think Stewart is more suited to the 1st and 2nd down running plays the Panthers will favor.

http://www.catscratchreader.com/2008/7/28/580927/csr-top-panthers-training

thule
08-12-2008, 06:34 PM
Thanks thule. I really enjoy those.

I wanted to get you something for the chiefs...but to tell you the truth ever since i moved back to ND...I haven't heard a damn thing about them. And any prediction I made would simply be a guess with no reasoning behind it. Like LJ will have more yards this year because they drafted Albert !!!111!!

LonghornsLegend
08-12-2008, 06:35 PM
Well thats definately positive as I am a fan, I was just reading how they were holding him out of scrimmages and 11 on 11 in TC so I figured he had yet to see the field, but it does sound promising.


Carolina is my surprise team to make the playoffs, Peppers will make a resurgence, and that offense is going to be very high powered, only guy I could see beating out Stewart is Matty Ice if he is given the start from week 1.

Number 10
08-12-2008, 06:46 PM
Couple of little requests on your views of the Giants.

What are these overlooked losses you speak of?

-We lose Kawika Mitchell and bring in Danny Clark along with two rookies...one of which has been on the same level as Kenny Phillips in training camp (Kehl).

-We lose Strahan but with the amount of pass rushers we have and considering it is Justin Tuck stepping in, should we really be worried?

-We lose Gibril Wilson and draft your pick for DROY and bring in savvy vet Sammy Knight.

-Shockey is a loss for us but a TE is no longer the focal point of the offense. We are focused on power run game where we have a great line and 3 good backs to work with and the deep ball in the passing game, where we are still a big time threat.

CJSchneider
08-12-2008, 06:50 PM
Great stuff. + rep

bearsfan_51
08-12-2008, 06:51 PM
Oh please come one now, you act like he's a Bears fan and said his team was going to win the super bowl, saying Dallas is due to win a playoff game is far from a homer statement, neither is Romo for MVP as I've seen it in countless magazines, I wish people around here would stop acting like you can't say anything positive about your own team or your a homer.

It's not that you can't say anything positive (although saying you'll win the MVP and be the best team in your conference is a bit presumptuous personally), it's that there are 32 teams in the NFL, and the Cowboys get 2 out of the 10 predictions. In fact, before I even opened the thread I had a pretty strong inclination that it would be Cowboys focused. That's not a knock on Thule, I like Thule a lot actually, it's just indicative of how Cowboys fans that think the NFL revolves around them, despite the fact that they haven't done anything important in over a decade.

LonghornsLegend
08-12-2008, 07:06 PM
It's not that you can't say anything positive (although saying you'll win the MVP and be the best team in your conference is a bit presumptuous personally), it's that there are 32 teams in the NFL, and the Cowboys get 2 out of the 10 predictions. In fact, before I even opened the thread I had a pretty strong inclination that it would be Cowboys focused. That's not a knock on Thule, I like Thule a lot actually, it's just indicative of how Cowboys fans that think the NFL revolves around them, despite the fact that they haven't done anything important in over a decade.

I always love when people group "Cowboys fans" into one group as if they all think the same and don't have a mind of their own.


If this was a Peter King article it was a good chance 2 out of 10 would be Cowboys related, Matt Mosely, anything on ESPN, your acting like it would be out of the ordinary for that to happen, the Cowboys are media darlings, and I don't think that has anything to do with us Cowboys fans, and they get a majority of attention good and bad.


Look around on the internet, probably every single "10 NFL truth" stories offers plenty Cowboy talk, in fact if you google it thats the first thing that pops up, but I guess their Cowboy fans too? He said Romo was going to win the MVP and Dallas was going to win a playoff game, yea he obviously thinks the NFL revolves around Dallas.

thule
08-12-2008, 07:09 PM
Couple of little requests on your views of the Giants.

What are these overlooked losses you speak of?

-We lose Kawika Mitchell and bring in Danny Clark along with two rookies...one of which has been on the same level as Kenny Phillips in training camp (Kehl).

-We lose Strahan but with the amount of pass rushers we have and considering it is Justin Tuck stepping in, should we really be worried?

-We lose Gibril Wilson and draft your pick for DROY and bring in savvy vet Sammy Knight.

-Shockey is a loss for us but a TE is no longer the focal point of the offense. We are focused on power run game where we have a great line and 3 good backs to work with and the deep ball in the passing game, where we are still a big time threat.

I don't think Clark is really a good enough replacement for Mitchell...if I'm not mistaken wasn't mitchell mainly a 2 down backer in NY? And he still managed to get over 75 tackles and 3.5 sacks.

Strahan single handly beat the cowboys in the playoffs. I watched NFL Replay of the game and it had a interesting convo between Strahan and the Dcord...it went something like this.
"Get Davis off of me and we will win this game." Next possession they started bringing strong side help...and it was then one on one with Strahan and Columbo...add that in with the fact that bringing strong side help allowed them to slant down on koiser I really think it was the difference in the game.

Now replacing him with Tuck is fine...although Tuck isn't near the leader of Strahan...but you now lose Tucks ability inside...unless you guys are still keeping him there...in which case is Kiwi coming down in those situations?

I'm not claiming to be a Toonster here and know everything about everybody...but I think Strahan is a huge loss that will be measured this offseason...and the loss of Shockey isn't as big of a loss as some seem..but hell he was gold for 2 good games a year vs. the cowboys....I'm not sure Boss is that guy...overall I just think the leadership is what went missing this offseason...and I'm not sold that Eli or Pierce can pick up for what was lost.

SFbear
08-12-2008, 07:10 PM
5) Rex Grossman, Kyle Orton, Chris Simms, Caleb Hanie, Devin Hester, and Sid Luckman's dead corpse will all start a game as the Bears QB


Fixed. Its going to be a long year.

thule
08-12-2008, 07:11 PM
Well thats definately positive as I am a fan, I was just reading how they were holding him out of scrimmages and 11 on 11 in TC so I figured he had yet to see the field, but it does sound promising.


Carolina is my surprise team to make the playoffs, Peppers will make a resurgence, and that offense is going to be very high powered, only guy I could see beating out Stewart is Matty Ice if he is given the start from week 1.

I've been reading Peppers is as good as he's ever been and to expect huge things out of him...if Carolina gets the media buying into them being a legit playoff contender which shouldn't be hard in the NFC he might just get a shot at DPOTY.

Geo
08-12-2008, 07:14 PM
I don't agree with Bf51's complaints, first off 2 out of 10 items isn't "homeristic." Now if it was 3, okay I might agree.

Second, you can't include all 32 teams, and you want to talk about what you want to talk about and think could happen, however that works out.

Really nice job, thule. I'll get to responding to some things.

yourfavestoner
08-12-2008, 07:17 PM
It's not a coincidence that they are only a +425 on the ML down in vegas right now or 6/1 on bodog to win the superbowl....in both cases 2nd best odds to win it all behind the pats. I really tried to keep homerism out of this as much as possible.

Vegas and odds don't mean anything except how much people are betting on a team. The more people put their money down for Dallas, the more the odds are adjusted in their favor, so as to protect the house from losing money. If everybody went to Vegas right now and started putting their money on St. Louis to win the Superbowl, then they would be the ones with the best odds to win the Superbowl.

BlindSite
08-12-2008, 07:18 PM
If you're looking for a running back to dominate in Carolina it will be Williams not Stewart.

Stewart has been playing well, but Williams has been better, in his third year he's a much bigger part of the team as a leader and he's faster, stronger and better than ever. He's going to be the team's work horse, Stewart will be lucky to crack 1000 yards this season.

bearsfan_51
08-12-2008, 07:20 PM
I always love when people group "Cowboys fans" into one group as if they all think the same and don't have a mind of their own.


If this was a Peter King article it was a good chance 2 out of 10 would be Cowboys related, Matt Mosely, anything on ESPN, your acting like it would be out of the ordinary for that to happen, the Cowboys are media darlings, and I don't think that has anything to do with us Cowboys fans, and they get a majority of attention good and bad.


Look around on the internet, probably every single "10 NFL truth" stories offers plenty Cowboy talk, in fact if you google it thats the first thing that pops up, but I guess their Cowboy fans too? He said Romo was going to win the MVP and Dallas was going to win a playoff game, yea he obviously thinks the NFL revolves around Dallas.
There are a lot of Cowboys homers out there. Are you new or something?

Dam8610
08-12-2008, 07:26 PM
Vegas and odds don't mean anything except how much people are betting on a team. The more people put their money down for Dallas, the more the odds are adjusted in their favor, so as to protect the house from losing money. If everybody went to Vegas right now and started putting their money on St. Louis to win the Superbowl, then they would be the ones with the best odds to win the Superbowl.

And everyone would've lost the capacity to have a rational thought. No defense? Porous OL? holdout superstar? They're going all the way!

bearsfan_51
08-12-2008, 07:29 PM
And everyone would've lost the capacity to have a rational thought. No defense? Porous OL? holdout superstar? They're going all the way!
That's an extreme example, but anyone that knows anything about gambling knows that you're almost always betting off better on the team that has the smaller fan base. Watch how many times Notre Dame beats the spread for example.


I put down 100 bucks on Florida to win the NL East at 20/1 odds a few weeks ago. I feel pretty good about taking the Mets and Phillies homers on with those odds.

Geo
08-12-2008, 07:31 PM
If you're looking for a running back to dominate in Carolina it will be Williams not Stewart.

Stewart has been playing well, but Williams has been better, in his third year he's a much bigger part of the team as a leader and he's faster, stronger and better than ever. He's going to be the team's work horse, Stewart will be lucky to crack 1000 yards this season.
Plus John Fox has exhibited a consistent, almost stubborn trend of giving more carries to the veteran back, right or wrong. Even with a 1st round pick in Williams on the team for the last two years.

Dam8610
08-12-2008, 07:34 PM
That's an extreme example, but anyone that knows anything about gambling knows that you're almost always betting off better on the team that has the smaller fan base. Watch how many times Notre Dame beats the spread for example.


I put down 100 bucks on Florida to win the NL East at 20/1 odds a few weeks ago. I feel pretty good about taking the Mets and Phillies homers on with those odds.

I understand gambling, I was just laughing at the idea of anyone putting money on the Rams to win it all.

BuddyCHRIST
08-12-2008, 07:41 PM
I agree with the Pitt point, I think they will be an elite team in the already stacked AFC. Last year there was just too much going on with injuries and all Roethlisberger's stuff, and I really have always thought that he was a special QB. Not many QB's scare me to play against them the way he does because of the things he can do even when you get pressure on him.

LonghornsLegend
08-12-2008, 07:43 PM
There are a lot of Cowboys homers out there. Are you new or something?

What team doesn't have a large group of homers? That would be news to me if there was a team who didn't, but you know a large group of the respected Cowboys posters on this site and thats not the case.

LonghornsLegend
08-12-2008, 07:45 PM
If you're looking for a running back to dominate in Carolina it will be Williams not Stewart.

Stewart has been playing well, but Williams has been better, in his third year he's a much bigger part of the team as a leader and he's faster, stronger and better than ever. He's going to be the team's work horse, Stewart will be lucky to crack 1000 yards this season.



Deangelo has been playing good, I really like the guy, but he won't be a workhorse so lets not get carried away...A Workhorse back carries the ball 30 times a game, at the least 25 and rarely comes out, since we know thats not going to be the case he isn't and shouldn't be considered a workhorse...He will get around 15-20 carries depending on the team, and some receptions, while getting spelled by Stewart, thats hardly a workhorse.

yourfavestoner
08-12-2008, 08:00 PM
I understand gambling, I was just laughing at the idea of anyone putting money on the Rams to win it all.

The example was extreme on purpose: to show that any team can have have the best odds to win the Superbowl - even one of the worst teams in the league. The only thing that matters when it comes to odds is how many people bet on them, which is why it's a useless argument of why the Cowboys will do good or bad. The Boys simply have more fans than anybody else.

scottyboy
08-12-2008, 08:04 PM
i don't get the whole Giants missing the playoffs thing. Didn't replace our losses? Phillips taking over for Wilson isn't much of a drop, if any at all. Yea, we lost Shockey, which has it's ups and downs, but our locker room will be alot quieter and calmer. Boss has lots of potential as well. Please don't give me the Mitchell and Torbor are key losses...

the biggest is Strahan who obviously will be missed but I highly doubt the drop off from him to Tuck will cost the Giants a playoff berth...

thule
08-12-2008, 08:10 PM
If you're looking for a running back to dominate in Carolina it will be Williams not Stewart.

Stewart has been playing well, but Williams has been better, in his third year he's a much bigger part of the team as a leader and he's faster, stronger and better than ever. He's going to be the team's work horse, Stewart will be lucky to crack 1000 yards this season.

So Stewart won't be getting the majority of the carries? Did I miss something...curious to find out more about Carolina camp...although I won't be changing any of my truths regaurdless.

thule
08-12-2008, 08:16 PM
i don't get the whole Giants missing the playoffs thing. Didn't replace our losses? Phillips taking over for Wilson isn't much of a drop, if any at all. Yea, we lost Shockey, which has it's ups and downs, but our locker room will be alot quieter and calmer. Boss has lots of potential as well. Please don't give me the Mitchell and Torbor are key losses...

the biggest is Strahan who obviously will be missed but I highly doubt the drop off from him to Tuck will cost the Giants a playoff berth...

I've already addressed this earlier in a reply to number10...but I'm curious to hear...I'm hearing a lot of talk about Tuck replacing Strahan...and thats fine and all...but will he be seeing anytime inside...because his speed on the inside is really what created the mismatches...I asked 10 and I'll ask you as well...does Tuck still go inside in passing situations with Kiwi sliding down or no?

And as far as it being a small degrade...if Tuck isn't moving inside I'm thinking it's going to be a huge loss....for instance...obviously I know the cowboys better than anyone else...the cowboys ran a 3-3 variation against the Giants in the second game they played each other...which is the game eli got murdered...and had about 4 delay of game penalties...this steamed from the failure of eli to identify the mike backer...which lead to mishaps in the blitz assignments. The reason I bring this up is because in the playoffs I thought that the giants did a good job of mixing rush zones up...and was one of the big reasons that they were able to dominate OL's in the playoffs...if Tuck is staying on the outside that could really mess up that flow they were able to develop by having two excellent edge rushers...and a talent like Tuck in the middle. So I actually view Tuck replacing Strahan as a huge loss for the simple fact that in pass rush situations you lose Tuck in the middle.


And as far as missing the playoff tidbit that I threw in there it had more to do with everyone else in the division improving more than the giants...and not as much of the giants getting worse.

scottyboy
08-12-2008, 08:19 PM
I've already addressed this earlier in a reply to number10...but I'm curious to hear...I'm hearing a lot of talk about Tuck replacing Strahan...and thats fine and all...but will he be seeing anytime inside...because his speed on the inside is really what created the mismatches...I asked 10 and I'll ask you as well...does Tuck still go inside in passing situations with Kiwi sliding down or no?

And as far as it being a small degrade...if Tuck isn't moving inside I'm thinking it's going to be a huge loss....for instance...obviously I know the cowboys better than anyone else...the cowboys ran a 3-3 variation against the Giants in the second game they played each other...which is the game eli got murdered...and had about 4 delay of game penalties...this steamed from the failure of eli to identify the mike backer...which lead to mishaps in the blitz assignments. The reason I bring this up is because in the playoffs I thought that the giants did a good job of mixing rush zones up...and was one of the big reasons that they were able to dominate OL's in the playoffs...if Tuck is staying on the outside that could really mess up that flow they were able to develop by having two excellent edge rushers...and a talent like Tuck in the middle. So I actually view Tuck replacing Strahan as a huge loss for the simple fact that in pass rush situations you lose Tuck in the middle.

on the pss rush situations, normally one or MAYBE 2 LB'ers would be on the field. Kiwi would slide down to the end with Tuck in the middle and Alford/Robbins next to him and of course Osi. Its obviously not the same without Strahan, but its still pretty good.

thule
08-12-2008, 08:21 PM
on the pss rush situations, normally one or MAYBE 2 LB'ers would be on the field. Kiwi would slide down to the end with Tuck in the middle and Alford/Robbins next to him and of course Osi. Its obviously not the same without Strahan, but its still pretty good.

Was Kiwi on the field in those situations last year...because I seem to remember he was...which in effect was where the 4 DE's on the field came from right?

And like I said...I just feel that the other teams in the division upgraded more from 2007-2008 than the Giants...not so much that they didn't address needs.

scottyboy
08-12-2008, 08:23 PM
Was Kiwi on the field in those situations last year...because I seem to remember he was...which in effect was where the 4 DE's on the field came from right?

And like I said...I just feel that the other teams in the division upgraded more from 2007-2008 than the Giants...not so much that they didn't address needs.

Yep, Kiwi would be in there at times with Osi, Tuck and Strahan. But weused it more towards the end of theyear when Kiwi was out. You have your opinions, and we'll see come the season! :D

PoopSandwich
08-12-2008, 08:41 PM
The Browns are up and coming...but that defense still isn't going to keep them in ballgames against the elite teams.

While our defense isn't going to be amazing, its going to be alot better, I would guess somewhere in the teens as ranking wise...

Our defense won't win us games, but our offense and special teams will, should be fun to watch the Browns/Steelers duke it out this year (finally).

thule
08-12-2008, 08:47 PM
While our defense isn't going to be amazing, its going to be alot better, I would guess somewhere in the teens as ranking wise...

Our defense won't win us games, but our offense and special teams will, should be fun to watch the Browns/Steelers duke it out this year (finally).

You guys got a NT...who has a knock for not playing hard all the time...thats a pretty big problem in the 3-4 two gap where you need to be taken up 2 people at all times...you guys lost your best secondary player Bodden and didn't replace him....I don't really see where you guys got better...fill me in.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-12-2008, 08:47 PM
Deangelo has been playing good, I really like the guy, but he won't be a workhorse so lets not get carried away...A Workhorse back carries the ball 30 times a game, at the least 25 and rarely comes out, since we know thats not going to be the case he isn't and shouldn't be considered a workhorse...He will get around 15-20 carries depending on the team, and some receptions, while getting spelled by Stewart, thats hardly a workhorse.

No running back in history has gotten 30 carries per game and very few (like...5 ever) have averaged 25 a game. So long as Delhomme's arm is really better and Steve Smith can keep from KO'ing teammates, Carolina can't afford to be completely run-centric. All sign indicate that DeAngelo Williams is going to get a great majority of the carries this year, even if all that amounts to in 20 carries per game (320 total carries, more than Tomlinson had last year).

LonghornsLegend
08-12-2008, 08:59 PM
No running back in history has gotten 30 carries per game and very few (like...5 ever) have averaged 25 a game. So long as Delhomme's arm is really better and Steve Smith can keep from KO'ing teammates, Carolina can't afford to be completely run-centric. All sign indicate that DeAngelo Williams is going to get a great majority of the carries this year, even if all that amounts to in 20 carries per game (320 total carries, more than Tomlinson had last year).

Do you consider a "workhorse" back one who shares carries in a committee? LJ for a few seasons, LT his entire career, Jamal Lewis, Steven Jackson, Brian Westbrook, to me when you have a workhorse back you rarely see another back on the field, I expect Deangelo to be a key player in a committee, if they were looking for him to be a workhorse I can think of alot better things to spend a top 15 pick on then a big, strong, fast RB who some consider to be ideal to be a workhorse.


I'm not going to get worked up over TC and one pre-season game, Deshaun Foster was always in Stephen Davis' shadow, same with Deangelo when he came along with Foster, what reason would he have to just use one RB all of a sudden...Deangelo getting 20 carries and Stewart getting 5 makes no sense to me, and I highly doubt that comes close to happening...At best I see a time-share in Deangelo's favor, but he's not going to be a workhorse back.

Xonraider
08-12-2008, 09:03 PM
10 NFL liezz

bigbluedefense
08-12-2008, 09:05 PM
great thread Thule. i have some disagreements, but hey, thats why we make these threads right? :)

i love your point on the Steelers. i think they could very well go to the SB this year. theyre a very good team. and their oline woes are exaggerated. honestly, from my evaluation of them, it was moreso Ben holding onto the ball too long which resulted in sacks.

regardless though, Ben has grown exponentially, and now with more targets, i think he'll get that ball out even quicker and do even better. with 2 very good backs id prefer them to go back to a more smashmouth brand of football, but Ben is very capable of running a spread offense as well.

And Anthony Smith is so underrated.

bigbluedefense
08-12-2008, 09:06 PM
Oh and btw guys, if you want to know anything about the Phillips 46, Thule is our resident expert in that scheme. He knows it better than anyone.

yourfavestoner
08-12-2008, 09:10 PM
great thread Thule. i have some disagreements, but hey, thats why we make these threads right? :)

i love your point on the Steelers. i think they could very well go to the SB this year. theyre a very good team. and their oline woes are exaggerated. honestly, from my evaluation of them, it was moreso Ben holding onto the ball too long which resulted in sacks.

regardless though, Ben has grown exponentially, and now with more targets, i think he'll get that ball out even quicker and do even better. with 2 very good backs id prefer them to go back to a more smashmouth brand of football, but Ben is very capable of running a spread offense as well.

And Anthony Smith is so underrated.

The reason I doubt the Steelers has mostly to do with that schedule. It's brutal beyond anything I've ever seen before. They've got the Jaguars, Giants, Colts, Chargers, Patriots and Cowboys, and that’s before they even play a division game.

bigbluedefense
08-12-2008, 09:14 PM
The reason I doubt the Steelers has mostly to do with that schedule. It's brutal beyond anything I've ever seen before. They've got the Jaguars, Giants, Colts, Chargers, Patriots and Cowboys, and that’s before they even play a division game.

damn...didn't think of it that way, that is a brutal schedule.


i love Jags/Steelers games. if youre a true fan of smashmouth football, you love Jaguar/Steeler games. to me those games are cream of the crop, i love watching those 2 teams go at it.

TitleTown088
08-12-2008, 09:17 PM
Phillips taking over for Wilson isn't much of a drop, if any at all. Yea, we lost Shockey, which has it's ups and downs, but our locker room will be alot quieter and calmer. Boss has lots of potential as well.

Preaching to the choir my man!

Rogers taking over for Favre isn't much of a drop, if any at all. Afterall, Rodgers is a Packer, he's automatically good dawg.

Since the Eagles lost TO they have been better because their locker room was more calm. Deshawn Jackson has lots of potential as well.

princefielder28
08-12-2008, 09:19 PM
nice work thule!

you'll have to compete with mine tomorrow though :)

bigbluedefense
08-12-2008, 09:20 PM
Preaching to the choir my man!

Rogers taking over for Favre isn't much of a drop, if any at all. Afterall, Rodgers is a Packer, he's automatically good dawg.

Since the Eagles lost TO they have been better because their locker room was more calm. Deshawn Jackson has lots of potential as well.




and on the 5th day Jordy Nelson sayeth:

Hath thee forgetten, that God still playeth in Green Bay?

and peace was restored.

TitleTown088
08-12-2008, 09:22 PM
and on the 5th day Jordy Nelson sayeth:

Hath thee forgetten, that God still playeth in Green Bay?

and peace was restored.

Jordy play football before sea creatures and Birds were created?

.....Damn, he good.

bigbluedefense
08-12-2008, 09:24 PM
Jordy came before sea creatures and Birds?

.....Damn, he good.

not only did he come before them, he made them with clay and semen.


lol, my bad Thule, i don't want to turn this into another Jordy love fest.

scottyboy
08-12-2008, 09:26 PM
Preaching to the choir my man!

Rogers taking over for Favre isn't much of a drop, if any at all. Afterall, Rodgers is a Packer, he's automatically good dawg.

Since the Eagles lost TO they have been better because their locker room was more calm. Deshawn Jackson has lots of potential as well.

except QB has a bit more impact on a game than DE, and Tuck played in more than one game lastyear..

Pretty sure the Giants won the playoffs without Shockey, so there's that.

And Bossplayed last year in the NFL, unlike Jackson, so not only was this unfunny, but terrible comparisons as well...

yourfavestoner
08-12-2008, 09:27 PM
damn...didn't think of it that way, that is a brutal schedule.


i love Jags/Steelers games. if youre a true fan of smashmouth football, you love Jaguar/Steeler games. to me those games are cream of the crop, i love watching those 2 teams go at it.

Jags/Steelers is my favorite matchup in the NFL annually. Always, always, always a good game. TBH, my favorite one in recent years was two years ago on MNF, when the Jags won 9-6.

bigbluedefense
08-12-2008, 09:30 PM
Jags/Steelers is my favorite matchup in the NFL annually. Always, always, always a good game. TBH, my favorite one in recent years was two years ago on MNF, when the Jags won 9-6.

i remember that game. so many hits in that game, it was so great.

for me personally, Giants/Cowboys are gonna be real special games this year. both teams hate each other and feel like theres unfinished business.

TitleTown088
08-12-2008, 09:33 PM
except QB has a bit more impact on a game than DE, and Tuck played in more than one game lastyear..

Pretty sure the Giants won the playoffs without Shockey, so there's that.

And Bossplayed last year in the NFL, unlike Jackson, so not only was this unfunny, but terrible comparisons as well...

You stated it aboot safety as well, brah. It dosen't matter which position it's at, you insinuated there would be no crop off. Phillips hasn't played a down in the NFL. Who's to say he will be an adequate replacement?
As for Tuck, good player. However, who's to say he'll fulltime replace a HOFer? Oh, you did? Well than I say Rodgers will do the same mon frair.

The Giants won the super bowl, not Boss. You think Boss gives the Giants a better team than Shockey? Mmmmmk.

yourfavestoner
08-12-2008, 09:39 PM
i remember that game. so many hits in that game, it was so great.

for me personally, Giants/Cowboys are gonna be real special games this year. both teams hate each other and feel like theres unfinished business.

Giants/Cowboys is always good. I actually watch a fair amount of Giants games, as my dad's a Giants fan, so I was pretty much raised on them.

Which reminds me, don't you miss the days of Dan Reeves and Dave Brown? ;)

kalbears13
08-12-2008, 09:56 PM
Anderson might struggle those first couple of games. They play: Dallas, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Bye, New York (Giants), Washington, Jacksonville and then Baltimore again. All have very good defenses except for Cincinnati. It will be tough for Derek to play well for all of those games even with the studs he has on offense. (and btw you wrote Alexander instead of Anderson the first time. just so you know.)

Geo
08-12-2008, 09:57 PM
i love your point on the Steelers. i think they could very well go to the SB this year. theyre a very good team. and their oline woes are exaggerated. honestly, from my evaluation of them, it was moreso Ben holding onto the ball too long which resulted in sacks.
Roflisberger taking sacks only exasperates the issue, and now the line has lost Faneca - who is okay/average in pass protection, but one of the best guards in the league in run blocking. I think you're being very optimistic re: the Steelers offensive line, BBD. It's going to be a big issue/negative for the offense.

And the potent defensive line is only getting older, maybe they don't stop the run like they used to. Both sides of the ball have some concerns up front.

ALD
08-12-2008, 10:02 PM
Good Writeup but a few gripes

1 Dallas didn't outplay the giants, in fact in crunch time they choked up and Romo couldn't hit the broadside of the barn because he was just terrified. I don't know if this was Dallas choking or the giants pass rush dominating but either way Dallas didn't outplay us. Sorry, you have major talent but in that game you guys fell apart, IF Wade Phillips can instill a tougher mindset I like Dallas to go to the superbowl, if not, which I personally think is more likely simply because I don't think Phillips is a very good coach, Dallas will again faulter in the playoffs, maybe they'll win one, but they won't have a shot at a superbowl.

and 2 which needs didn't the Giants address? A dominant blocking TE? Yeah that's going to hurt and if someone doesn't step up Gilbride will have to tweak the running game but you really think that's going to stop us when we've gotten better in the defensive back 7, still have a beastly line, a dominant running game and a more comfortable eli? It's very possible we miss the playoffs but it won't be because we failed to replace anyone it'll be because the young guys weren't ready to take over a very tough division, probably the best division in football from top to bottom.

yourfavestoner
08-12-2008, 10:09 PM
Roflisberger taking sacks only exasperates the issue, and now the line has lost Faneca - who is okay/average in pass protection, but one of the best guards in the league in run blocking. I think you're being very optimistic re: the Steelers offensive line, BBD. It's going to be a big issue/negative for the offense.

And the potent defensive line is only getting older, maybe they don't stop the run like they used to. Both sides of the ball have some concerns up front.

Exactly. One of the guys that they can least afford to lose to injury is Aaron Smith. Their run defense was terrible last year once he got hurt. One of the most underrated players in the league IMO.

ALD
08-12-2008, 10:11 PM
I've already addressed this earlier in a reply to number10...but I'm curious to hear...I'm hearing a lot of talk about Tuck replacing Strahan...and thats fine and all...but will he be seeing anytime inside...because his speed on the inside is really what created the mismatches...I asked 10 and I'll ask you as well...does Tuck still go inside in passing situations with Kiwi sliding down or no?

And as far as it being a small degrade...if Tuck isn't moving inside I'm thinking it's going to be a huge loss....for instance...obviously I know the cowboys better than anyone else...the cowboys ran a 3-3 variation against the Giants in the second game they played each other...which is the game eli got murdered...and had about 4 delay of game penalties...this steamed from the failure of eli to identify the mike backer...which lead to mishaps in the blitz assignments. The reason I bring this up is because in the playoffs I thought that the giants did a good job of mixing rush zones up...and was one of the big reasons that they were able to dominate OL's in the playoffs...if Tuck is staying on the outside that could really mess up that flow they were able to develop by having two excellent edge rushers...and a talent like Tuck in the middle. So I actually view Tuck replacing Strahan as a huge loss for the simple fact that in pass rush situations you lose Tuck in the middle.


And as far as missing the playoff tidbit that I threw in there it had more to do with everyone else in the division improving more than the giants...and not as much of the giants getting worse.

I'd Expect Kiwi to put his hand down and play the DE spot Tuck vacates when he moves inside, although we did also bring old man Wynn in because he has the ability to move inside and rush the passer from DT so we might see Tuck staying outside and Wynn coming in for the tuck role some times as well. Overall I think Spags will just keep mixing up our packages unless something really clicks and dominates, like the 4 aces early and the tuck nickel line later in the season.

Number 10
08-12-2008, 10:45 PM
I don't think Clark is really a good enough replacement for Mitchell...if I'm not mistaken wasn't mitchell mainly a 2 down backer in NY? And he still managed to get over 75 tackles and 3.5 sacks.

Strahan single handly beat the cowboys in the playoffs. I watched NFL Replay of the game and it had a interesting convo between Strahan and the Dcord...it went something like this.
"Get Davis off of me and we will win this game." Next possession they started bringing strong side help...and it was then one on one with Strahan and Columbo...add that in with the fact that bringing strong side help allowed them to slant down on koiser I really think it was the difference in the game.

Now replacing him with Tuck is fine...although Tuck isn't near the leader of Strahan...but you now lose Tucks ability inside...unless you guys are still keeping him there...in which case is Kiwi coming down in those situations?

I'm not claiming to be a Toonster here and know everything about everybody...but I think Strahan is a huge loss that will be measured this offseason...and the loss of Shockey isn't as big of a loss as some seem..but hell he was gold for 2 good games a year vs. the cowboys....I'm not sure Boss is that guy...overall I just think the leadership is what went missing this offseason...and I'm not sold that Eli or Pierce can pick up for what was lost.

Well if you think the Giants are going to be an entirely different team because of a lack of leadership, that's fine. I don't agree with it but I won't argue that.

Personnel wise Tuck was our best defensive lineman last year the entire season. Throw in the development of Alford and Tollefson (we breed quality pass rushers like crazy) and Strahan's lack of presence on the field will not be a big deal.

Mitchell was our best LB last year, but a lot of it had to do with the scheme. He rarely had to fight off blocks because of what we do up front. When he went down during the the New England regular season game, Gerris Wilkinson came in and notched 9 tackles. The WILL in Spags scheme is an easy spot to fill, thus the lack of effort to match Mitchell's contract given by Buffalo. So there is not a big need to worry there.

Number 10
08-12-2008, 10:49 PM
Oh and regarding Tuck in his DT spot on passing downs....

As of right now Tuck will be on the inside when they bring an extra DE onto the field. Last year they called it their 4 aces package with Osi and Strahan on the outside and Kiwanuka-Tuck in the middle. It looks like Kiwanuka will be on the outside instead of Strahan and Jay Alford with join Tuck in the middle.

BlindSite
08-12-2008, 11:21 PM
So Stewart won't be getting the majority of the carries? Did I miss something...curious to find out more about Carolina camp...although I won't be changing any of my truths regaurdless.

That's ok, I was just saying its a nice vote of support, but it won't happen.

Do you consider a "workhorse" back one who shares carries in a committee? LJ for a few seasons, LT his entire career, Jamal Lewis, Steven Jackson, Brian Westbrook, to me when you have a workhorse back you rarely see another back on the field, I expect Deangelo to be a key player in a committee, if they were looking for him to be a workhorse I can think of alot better things to spend a top 15 pick on then a big, strong, fast RB who some consider to be ideal to be a workhorse.


I'm not going to get worked up over TC and one pre-season game, Deshaun Foster was always in Stephen Davis' shadow, same with Deangelo when he came along with Foster, what reason would he have to just use one RB all of a sudden...Deangelo getting 20 carries and Stewart getting 5 makes no sense to me, and I highly doubt that comes close to happening...At best I see a time-share in Deangelo's favor, but he's not going to be a workhorse back.

I don't mean to sound like an asshole, but you're line of thinking is wrong. It doesn't matter to fox, what the draft position it matter who's the most ready and in camp williams has been better than Stewart.

Stewart's stats will probably look like this: 160 carries for 700-750 yards, 5 TDs and probably 25-30 receptions for 200 yards and a TD or so.

A good solid rookie season.

Williams I am projecting around about 260-300 carries for 1092-1200 yards and 9 or so touchdowns.

scottyboy
08-12-2008, 11:28 PM
You stated it aboot safety as well, brah. It dosen't matter which position it's at, you insinuated there would be no crop off. Phillips hasn't played a down in the NFL. Who's to say he will be an adequate replacement?
As for Tuck, good player. However, who's to say he'll fulltime replace a HOFer? Oh, you did? Well than I say Rodgers will do the same mon frair.

The Giants won the super bowl, not Boss. You think Boss gives the Giants a better team than Shockey? Mmmmmk.

I never Tuck would fully replace Stray. Strahan is a HUGE loss. But losing a HOF DE to a guy who's played alot of downs the last year to a HOF QB to a guy who's played in what, 1 NFL game? is a huge difference.

Phillips fits our scheme better than Wilson. I said there'd be a dop off, but by week 6, it will be obvious it's not much.

and didn't Boss have a huge catch and run in the Super Bowl? didn't the Giants win the Super Bowl with Shockey not there and Boss on the field? Isn't Shockey famous for blowing up on the sidelines when Eli doesn't throw him the ball? Weren't the Giants supposed to be MUCH worse without the cancer/great talent in Tiki? mmmmmmmmk

LonghornsLegend
08-12-2008, 11:34 PM
I don't mean to sound like an asshole, but you're line of thinking is wrong. It doesn't matter to fox, what the draft position it matter who's the most ready and in camp williams has been better than Stewart.

Stewart's stats will probably look like this: 160 carries for 700-750 yards, 5 TDs and probably 25-30 receptions for 200 yards and a TD or so.

A good solid rookie season.

Williams I am projecting around about 260-300 carries for 1092-1200 yards and 9 or so touchdowns.


300 carries for Deangelo? Good one there...What was stopping him from seeing the field more last year? Why was it that Foster remained the starter for so long? So because Deangelo is a vet now he is going to get the ball 300 times(mind you, you said carries, so considering catches it would be even higher) and Stewart only 150? He won't come anywhere near 300 carries and its ridiculous to even assume so.

thule
08-12-2008, 11:44 PM
Glad to see all the productive discussion going on around here...that is why these threads are awesome.

Pitt does have a tough road early...but I think they are better than half the teams mentioned that they face...and should get through that stretch over .500

Yourfavstoner made a great point about Aaron Smith...that rush defense wasn't the same...and I meant to touch on that briefly..that the defensive front needs to stay healthy this year to meet the expectations I have set for them.

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with you Geo on the offensive line thought. I think a strong OL is huge for a good team...but we aren't talking about a team like ATL...we are tlaking about a QB that is top 5 in the league and proved it taking a beating last year. His weapons have only gotten better...and if the chemistry between him and Holmes is half of what it's hyped to be teams are going to have to play a man deep just to prevent all that stuff going on. Also another thing to think about is how great of a TE Miller is for the Steelers....with him on the field...it's like another lineman when he is in blocking.

Dal/NYG has been epic that past couple of years...guys like Jackson and Crayton only make this battle greater...a lot of animosity between these two teams...the week before the game is always tense.

My favorite matchup tho will always be the epic Ind/NE games that always seems to be high energy...and have the superbowl feeling about them.

ALD just to touch on your point....I honestly felt the cowboys outplayed the Giants....I felt that a few penalties and the game wouldn't have been close...lets just take a look at the stats...and see what they told.
1st Downs 16 23
3rd down efficiency 4-9 10-16
Total Yards 230 336
Passing 140 182
Rushing 90 154
Yards per rush3.9 4.7
Penalties 3-25 11-84
Possession 23:30 36:30

Just looking at the stats alone..this game doesn't even look close...no doubt the Giants won the game and I give total props to them coming out and winning the 4th quarter...but the cowboys(fans/players/coaches) feel like that game should have been theirs.

Thx to all the Giant fans for clearing up the issues at how your now 3 aces package will look...that was one of my biggest questions I was looking forward to getting answered from you.

kalbears13
08-12-2008, 11:57 PM
And also when you mentioned the Browns not getting a replacement for Jurevicius, did you mean the whole WR core or just a 3rd down type of receiver? They did draft Martin Rucker and Paul Hubbard. Hubbard is pretty big but hasn't done great in Training Camp with dropped balls but Rucker is a receiving TE who has shown he can catch pretty well and has performed well in the first preseason game. They have 3rd year Travis Wilson. Don't forget about K2 as a receiver too.

ALD
08-13-2008, 12:24 AM
Dallas definately out gained us and put up better stats, and you're right they very well could have buried us, but by the 4th quarter Dallas wasn't in the game. Romo was missing wide open receivers and the team just looked completely deflated and miserable. We did that to the Packers also. We managed to just beat the fight out of teams during the playoffs.

Geo
08-13-2008, 01:52 AM
With exception to the offense in the season opener at Dallas, the Giants on both sides of the ball played their best football in the postseason. They weren't that good in the regular season, but hey, if you can play above your head for one month, you want it to be the postseason. That's the ideal.

The Colts' defense enacted a similar feat the year before on their own championship run. That's a big part of what makes them two of the more improbable Super Bowl champions, when looking at the whole season in perspective, but that is what makes it special and part of NFL lore.

Whether the Giants can continue that level of play on either side of the ball this season will be interesting to see.

DMWSackMachine
08-13-2008, 01:53 AM
So what is going to be different this year with DeAngelo? Fox never seemed to warm to him in his first two years, even though there was abundant opportunity. Carolina has always had that power-running identity whenever they've had success in the past, and trying to go with a smaller more elusive runner hasn't ever worked, as far as I can remember. So what's different? Have the coaches come out and declared that Williams is their guy? Stewart seemed like a match made in heaven when he was drafted by them? What's going on?

As you can tell, this has a fair amount of importance to me. FF time is upon us and Carolina's backs are one of the bigger mysteries out there.

ALD
08-13-2008, 01:55 AM
With exception to the offense in the season opener at Dallas, the Giants on both sides of the ball played their best football in the postseason. They weren't that good in the regular season, but hey, if you can play above your head for one month, you want it to be the postseason. That's the ideal.

The Colts' defense enacted a similar feat the year before on their own championship run. That's a big part of what makes them two of the more improbable Super Bowl champions, when looking at the whole season in perspective, but that is what makes it special and part of NFL lore.

Whether the Giants can continue that level of play on either side of the ball this season will be interesting to see.

I honestly think we'll be a better through out the season this year. But then again we're a very young team and that type of progress is to be anticipated. We've been a consistent playoff team for 3 years now, with a title to boot. I'm not going to say dynasty but we'll be an annual contender for quite some time the way things are looking in giant land.

BlindSite
08-13-2008, 02:40 AM
300 carries for Deangelo? Good one there...What was stopping him from seeing the field more last year? Why was it that Foster remained the starter for so long? So because Deangelo is a vet now he is going to get the ball 300 times(mind you, you said carries, so considering catches it would be even higher) and Stewart only 150? He won't come anywhere near 300 carries and its ridiculous to even assume so.

260 to 300 carries for a Carolina running back isn't a big stretch. Foster had 247 last year and in 2003 the last time Fox had a back to ride Stephen Davis carried the ball 318 times. All Williams has to do is carry the ball 18 to 19 times a game, which when you break it down is 4 and 5 times a quarter. That isn't a massive work load on a run first team.

What stopped it last year was that Williams wasn't as good a pass protector as Foster and that there wasn't as much opportunity as when Delhomme was starting. The offense went three and out too often. When he did play he looked damn good and like with Carr and Moore people were screaming for a switch long before it happened.

Its not ridiculous to predict it when you've been following the Panthers through training camp and know John Fox's tendencies. I don't tell you how the carries between Jones and Barber will be split, because I don't know, so don't do the same here.

So what is going to be different this year with DeAngelo? Fox never seemed to warm to him in his first two years, even though there was abundant opportunity. Carolina has always had that power-running identity whenever they've had success in the past, and trying to go with a smaller more elusive runner hasn't ever worked, as far as I can remember. So what's different? Have the coaches come out and declared that Williams is their guy? Stewart seemed like a match made in heaven when he was drafted by them? What's going on?

As you can tell, this has a fair amount of importance to me. FF time is upon us and Carolina's backs are one of the bigger mysteries out there.

Last two years DeAngelo didn't have 100% of the playbook down, he wasn't immature but he wasn't yet matured as a player.

Foster was a better pass protector, just as good a receiver and gave the offense more options when it comes to packages. Because Williams progressed so much last year when he did play he was lights out, averaging 5.0 per carry.

In campt this year he showed up to the OTAs in the best shape of his career, he looked stronger and faster than he has done and took up a more active role watching film and studying the plays. Then he put it together on the field. He's got a strong stiff arm and has excellent vision.

If you want to know how he's going to fit, think Preist Holmes. He was at his best when Kansas City ran their mammoth offensive line in different packages using both Zone blocks and power manuevers. The Panthers offensive line is huge this year and they're using a variety of ZBS looks (a sytem he's been in his entire college and professional career) as well as down hill plays.

Note: I'm not trying to suggest Carolina has a HOF line, I'm talking scheme not necessarily production.

Williams knows the plays, is a better receiver and is more ready. If he can carry the rock for 18 plays a game, getting stewart between 10 and 15. Then the team will do very well.

They're not going to put the better receiver, pass blocker and more knowledgeable NFL ready player on the bench for a rookie who's coming off a major injury.

Anyone who has followed Panther football will tell you, Williams has been the better back in TC and Fox will almost always stick with the veteran. He'll ALWAYS no matter what, stick with the hot hand too.

Crickett
08-13-2008, 03:19 AM
Personnel wise Tuck was our best defensive lineman last year the entire season. Throw in the development of Alford and Tollefson (we breed quality pass rushers like crazy) and Strahan's lack of presence on the field will not be a big deal.

But thats exactly why Tuck can't replace Strahan.

Year Team G Solo Ast Total Sack YdsL Int Yds IntTD DefTD FFum PD Sfty
Michael Strahan 2007 NY Giants 16 45 12 57 9.0 65 0 0 0 0 1 2 0
Justin Tuck 2007 NY Giants 16 48 17 65 10.0 61 0 0 0 0 2 1 0

I keep hearing about how Justin Tuck is going to replace Strahan, but, last year, the Giants had

Strahan Cofield Tuck Umenyiora - Yeah, Tuck wasn't the starting DT, but he rotated in a lot of put up numbers comparable with any starter.

So they lose Strahan.
LDE DT DT RDE
??? Cofield Tuck Umenyiora

And Justin Tuck is going to replace Strahan

LDE DT DT RDE
Tuck Cofield ??? Umenyiora

But Tuck will still play DT during passing downs.

LDE DT DT RDE
??? Cofield Tuck Umenyiora

And while they're developing young players, Tollefson and Alford combined are not a replacement for

LDE DT DT RDE
??? Cofield Tuck Umenyiora

^
the production they got from Strahan there

or

Tuck Cofield ??? Umenyiora
__________^the production they got from Tuck there

Strahan was a big part of the Giants defensive line, the unit that got there where they were. And Tuck can't just step in and replace him because he was already a big part of the Giants defensive line as well.


JMHO.

DMWSackMachine
08-13-2008, 03:35 AM
Um.....Kiwanuka?

Not disagreeing with you, as I feel like Giants fans are--surprise!--downplaying Strahan's loss a little too strongly, but an entire post like that without every mentioning Kiwi is hard to fathom.

eaglesfan_45
08-13-2008, 03:48 AM
Um... Kiwi plays SLB, and I doubt you see him line up at DE a whole lot.

Iamcanadian
08-13-2008, 07:37 AM
[QUOTE=thule;1170977]#1) Packers need no Faver
Well I figured you couldn't have a NFL truths up at this time of the year without starting it off with the biggest thing to hit the USA since sliced bread. The Green Bay Packers are once again going to be the class of the NFC North. Lets face it...they have a ton of weapons...even adding addition of Jordy Nelson to the equation. The young RB's have had another offseason in the weight room and in the film room. Aaron Rodgers has been sitting for 3 years...if he wasn't the answer now he never was going to be. Bottom line is this team is one of the youngest in the NFL....and although they lost a HOF QB...this team shouldn't fall off with his departure. We are talking about a team that has depth...studs in key positions and has something to prove. The only weakness I see on this team is the talent in the deep secondary...I'm not sure if Collins is going to go back to the playmaker he was in his rookie year. Now I'm not stupid enough to think the packers are going to pull off another 13-3 season...but that has nothing to do with the loss of farve...and everything to do with the other teams in their division improving. I'm think 10 or 11 wins...gets them the 2nd seed in the Playoffs and a NFL North Division Championship.

---I have to disagee. GB is in serious trouble especially on offense. Favre covered up a lot of their weaknesses and made very average starters into studs. With Favre at QB, teams were forced to defend the pass first leaving a huge gap in the middle to defend the run. Without Favre's threat teams will load up in the middle and take all the easy yards away from Davis. He could struggle big time. Franchise QB's like Favre can make WR's look a lot better than they are, he can turn a mediocre receiver into a star. If GB was so sure their WR's were the real deal, why draft Nelson?? Finally, you have a QB who was drafted late in round 1, hardly a sure fire prospect, who must now prove that he can get the job done, with huge question marks at RB and WR. Rodgers has yet to shoew he can run a franchise and be a winner.
If it wasn't for the fact that the NFC North is a rotten Division with few goodf football teams, GB would be the favourite for last place.

2) Top 3 out of 4 is bad in 2008?
So many of us were excited on draft day. Yet when you think back to the draft you realize that the top 3 offensive picks really are going to have to exceed expectations to even be in the running for OROY this year. Jake Long is a great lineman...but this isn't the Big 10 anymore...He is going to get beat this season....and really I'm not going to put a ton of blame on him...but when you have to cover up your #1 overall pick by running the ball 30 times a game I have trouble justifying the selection. Sparano is a hell of a coach and if anyone can get the most out of Long it will be him...but I just don't think his feet were as nimble as advertised...which isn't a big deal...but against the elite rushers in the league he just isn't going to have a chance. Matt Ryan...this was a great pick for the Falcons but this is going to be like almost every other rookie qb in the league their rookie year...total abuse. Now Ryan is intelligent which will help...but nothing is going to keep him from getting beat up behind that patchy line...and just going along the progression almost all starting rookie qb's go through. I'm looking for about 60% completion percentage and about 50/50 td:int ratio his first year. Lastly Darren McFadden...as a cowboys fan I had to hear about this all year long...but I really can't get over the fact that the raiders took him. We are talking about a guy playing a position where it's been well documented you can find production later and cheaper...yet he goes top three to a team that already had 3 efficient runners. Now idk if Fargas is as dynamic as DMac...but I do know that Fargas is more productive per dollar. And crazy al really is crazy in my mind...I just don't see enough touches going around...and if I draft a RB top 3 I'm going to try to get the ball in his hands atleast 18-20 times a game...and I'm not sure if McFadden is going to see that this year or not. I loved DMac as a prospect but I absolutely hate the fit.

---Your assessment of rookies is rather absurd. If Long isn't OROY, it will be because he's an OT and rookie OT's just don't get much publicity. Joe Thomas couldn't win it last year even though he was dominate. Miami is strong at RB and every Parcell teams have pounded the ball using the run to set up the pass. So it should come as no surprise that Long will be used to establish the run and if Miami can run the ball, the DE's in the league will be forced to defend the run first slowing down any pass rush they may want to do. I believe Long will be a complete stud at LT and enable Miami to play offense the way they want to.
Ryan is a QB which makes him a 3 to 4 year project but that is how you get a franchise QB and there isn't 1 GM in pro football who wouldn't draft a QB if there was a need and one was available when they draft.
Finally, Mcfadden. It is a complete myth that you can find a real stud RB later in the draft. Over 90% of all the top RB's in the league were drafted in round 1. Sure, if you want a guy who is nothing special, you can wait till rounds 2 or 3 but the odds of getting a star there are rather miniscual. Fargus has had 1 season since he entered pro football where he stayed healthy and you want to build your franchise around him. I see McFadden putting up at least 1500 yards this season and leading Oakland to around a 8-8 season. He's explosive and will require a double team when he goes out into passing routes opening up the coverage on the team's other receivers. I guess Minny was stupid for drafting Peterson.

Beast known as the East
I'm not talking about the NFC East tho...I'm talking about the soon to be most improved division in football. The patriots are the cream of the crop in the NFL...no use telling you guys stuff you already know. But I'm extremely high on the dolphins and Bills this year. The Jets with the addition of Brett Farve only get better. Every team in that division this year has improved...and I'm looking at a big turn around for the dolphins...7-9 is a distinct possibility which is huge in a division where you play the pats twice a year. The Bills are a team I really began to follow last year...and it seemed every game they played was within 3 points either way. I'm looking for more consistency out of the QB position in Buffalo and I see no reason why they can't make a bid into the playoffs. The wild card into making this division a success is the Jets. Now I'm not one of those naive Farve fans that think that the Jets are now legit super bowl contenders...but the team is young and if the defense can take it to the next level Farve should at least be able to keep the running game easier with his presence alone on the field.

The Dolphins and the Bills will be improved but have immense ground to cover before they will scare anybody. Buffalo won't see the playoffs this year until Edwards gets a lot better.
As for the Jets, Favre has shown in the past that he doesn't handle coaching changes very well. his worst seasons were when GB changed HC's. If he doesn't get off to a good start in NY, the fans could be without mercy, this isn't GB where he was an icon who could do no wrong. It may well take him a year to settle in.

4) Brady Quinn where can he win?
I was a huge Brady Quinn fan when he came out...loved what I heard about him last offseason and then WHAM...Anderson comes in and lights it up. Anderson doesn't look like he is letting up either. Although he had a down end of the season last year...something like more INT's then TD's in his last 8 games he got his new 3 year deal in feburary...and you got to believe that the browns love his gamer mentality. The knock on Quinn I've been hearing this offseason is not being aggressive enough...choosing to check down rather than force it. Now if Anderson struggles the first five or so games in Cleveland this year I think we see Quinn get his shot...but to be honest...with that much talent on offense I find it hard to believe a QB wouldn't be able to win with that team. Although we can't overlook the loss of Big Joe at WR...as he was there 3rd down machine with his size...something that has seemingly gone unreplaced(not a word) this offseason.

5) The boys are back in town
Yes I am going ahead and predicting the first playoff victory for the cowboys in 12 years. The reason is...they are due...they have outplayed their opponents in there last two appearances and came away just short both times. They have upgraded their biggest weakness (cb) and made it a strength with the additions of Pacman/Jenkins/Scandrick. The brought in veteran leadership to a team that has really been lacking in that department on the defensive side of that ball in Zach Thomas. They picked up a better compliment for MB3 in Felix Jones...and on top of that they resigned all their targeted team FA's this offseason. We are talking about marquee guys like Flozell Adams/Terrell Owens/Terrence Newman/Marion Barber/Ken Hamlin these guys are key components...and oh yea did I mention that we also retained our offensive coordinator Jason Garrett? What about the addition in the secondary with coach Dave Campo? All and all this team has no excuse not to execute this year...and they will be the cream of the crop in the NFC 12-4.

---It all won't make a bit of difference until Romo shows he can actually win a big game in the playoffs. I'm just not sure Romo has the mental toughness to take Dallas to the next stage.

6) Pittsburgh who?
Thats what I think about when I watch TV nowadays...no one seems to be talking about the Steelers. And this is really a crying shame. If you look at the division who do they really have? The Bengals still have a porous defense the ravens are undergoing a new coaching staff change....with either Troy Smith or Kyle Boller as their starter? The Browns are up and coming...but that defense still isn't going to keep them in ballgames against the elite teams. Bottomline is the Steelers are good...and sure people are making a deal about losing some peices on the offensive line...but they added another RB to the mix...have a healthy Willie Parker...Holmes and Ben seem to have upped their game to another level and Ward is still Ward. I'm not expecting much of a change at all this year for the Steelers offense...I mean it's not like big ben didn't get knocked around last year....through the 2nd half of the season he trailed only Tom Brady in passer rating...so I expect a little more out of the Steelers offense this year. Has the Steelers defense changed in the last 10 years? If so I haven't noticed it....Hampton is going to be ready for the opener from what I've been reading...and Troy should be ready to go as well...I'm looking for big things out of Pittsburgh and they should have the division title at the end of the season. Looking for about 11 wins for them this year.

---The question mark with Pittsburgh is still their HC. Is he a winner? This will be a telling season for him and will this 4-3 HC finally try to switch Pittsburgh away from their 3-4 or will he be comfortable staying another year in a 3-4 if the team struggles.

7) OROY
I'm going to have to go with a guy who I feel can step in from day one on a team where he should get a lot of time. Jonathan Stewart over in Carolina has been tearing it up in training camp and has been reported that he is playing like a man amongst boy's over there. Stewart I believe is going to see some special teams work as well which should only help his cause for ROY. Having Steve Smith suspended for the first two games shouldn't hurt his stats either...if he stays healthy he really should have a great shot of taking home the title. Looking for over 1000 total yards and atleast 10 TD's to get him to win this award.

---That's all nice but Deangelo Williams has been sensational in his exhibition game and might just keep Stewart on the bench. I think McFadden will walk away with OROY.

8) DROY
The first thought I wanted to give the nod to Aqib Talib...a kid I'm expecting huge things from as a rookie...but I'm not sold that there is going to be enough hype down in TB to give this kid the props he deserves so I'm going to go with Kenny Phillips. Phillips has been lights out in camps from reports...supposedly hitting everything in site....which is good and bad...but Phillips is in a good situation with a strong NY pass rush and should be in position to make a ton of plays for that defense this year. If he plays the way he can play I really don't see anyone taking it away from him. Look for him to get atleast 5 picks...and about 90 tackles.

---The last 2 DROY were LB's who played on absolutely rotten teams. It is far easier for them to put up remarkable stats and rookies playing on miserable teams are far more likely to see the field sooner. Some 75% of 1st round picks don't start in game one, many have to wait till game 7 or 8 before they get any extensiive playing time.

9) MVP
Tony Romo. In order for dallas to get over the hump this year...it is going to take the very best of Tony Romo for 16 straight games this year. Tony Romo has only started 26 games so far in his career...and yet it is hard to find a more productive QB during those times. People say he doesn't play well in big games...but 2006 Colts game and 2007 Packers game ring a bell of when he played well in big games...where both teams were undefeated over halfway through the season. If Tony can put it together...he has all the weapons he needs this year to put together a MVP type season...factor in that this is his second year in Garretts offense...he doesn't have an excuse not to be in the running. He broke quite a few passing records in dallas last year...I look for him to improve on those numbers this year. To win the MVP he is going to have to be right around that 65% completion percentage with about 4400 yards with a td:int ration of 2:1. If he does this...should give him a qb rating of just over 100 and put him in a legit spot to win the MVP award.

---An extreme longshot at best until he proves he can get over the hump.

10) Superbowl Champions?
I'm going to have to go with the Indianapolis Colts this year over the Saints. The Colts are just about the same team as last year...with Sanders returning..and Addai and Gonzalez getting another year under their belt...I look for Peyton to add to his status as a top QB of all time. The Saints just won't have the secondary to stop Indy's passing attack. Final Score 35-24

---I doubt the Colts make it especially since Peyton isn't closs to being the top QB of all time. NE looks like a cinch to me as Brady @ CO. has something to attune for.
The Saints are certainly a possibility but still have to prove they can get over the hump before I crown them,.


for boe
Off the Wall shots
1) Giants won't make the playoffs...and their losses that weren't addressed as well as other teams in the division

---The Giants may well suffer from SB itis and fall flat on their faces as many other SB winners have done, because they spent too much time partying and not enough time getting ready for the coming season.

2) Laurence Maroney will have over 1500 yards in rushing..which is about 670 more yards than last year

---Maroney isn't even a cinch to start for NE. Joirdan will give him all he can handle for the starting job.

3) Chester Taylor will have ypc than Adrian Peterson

---I seriously doubt it!

4) Troy Smith won't start opening week but will by midway through the season

---I think he has an excellent shot at starting at least the first 7 games, after that it will depend on how successful he has been.

5) Both Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton will start a game as the Bears QB
6) Felix Jones will better and MORE productive than Darren McFadden (sorry for the number10 reference) will have more yards from scrimmage.

---I don't think it will; be close. I could see McFadden putting up 1500 yards and I don't think Jones comes anywhere close to those #'s.

scottyboy
08-13-2008, 07:46 AM
Um... Kiwi plays SLB, and I doubt you see him line up at DE a whole lot.

HAHAHAHAHAHAH see, this shows how much you really know. Our coaches hav said repeatdly on passing downs Kiwi will slide down to DE. He'll be at DE QUITE a bit.

you obviously don't know anything about the Giants

and LL, I'm not downplaying the loss of Strahan. that's HUGE. his run stuffing, pass rushing, intimidation, leadership etc. can'tbe replaced. We'll miss him dearly, but he won't effectour ACES package much at all and doubt the loss of Strahan would cause the Giants to miss the playoffs

scottyboy
08-13-2008, 07:47 AM
Iamcanadian, GIants too much time partying? Where the hell'd you get that from? that's the furthest thing from the truth.

see now I KNOW guys are pulling **** out of there ass(not thule, guys responding...

thule
08-13-2008, 08:45 AM
And also when you mentioned the Browns not getting a replacement for Jurevicius, did you mean the whole WR core or just a 3rd down type of receiver? They did draft Martin Rucker and Paul Hubbard. Hubbard is pretty big but hasn't done great in Training Camp with dropped balls but Rucker is a receiving TE who has shown he can catch pretty well and has performed well in the first preseason game. They have 3rd year Travis Wilson. Don't forget about K2 as a receiver too.

Hubbard doesn't deserve to even be mentioned as a replacement for Joe....imo. Rucker is nice...and yes K2 will have to turn it up on third downs...I just wanted to touch that their security blanket in the passing game went without being replaced...which means other guys will have to pick it up. I'm thinking this is a bigger factor then most people realize.

scottyboy
08-13-2008, 08:47 AM
Thule's right, being a replacement for Joe Jurevicius, the greatest white WR or all time in the modern-era, is pretty tough to do. Hubbard's not even close to being there

thule
08-13-2008, 09:04 AM
[QUOTE=thule;1170977]#1) Packers need no Faver
Well I figured you couldn't have a NFL truths up at this time of the year without starting it off with the biggest thing to hit the USA since sliced bread. The Green Bay Packers are once again going to be the class of the NFC North. Lets face it...they have a ton of weapons...even adding addition of Jordy Nelson to the equation. The young RB's have had another offseason in the weight room and in the film room. Aaron Rodgers has been sitting for 3 years...if he wasn't the answer now he never was going to be. Bottom line is this team is one of the youngest in the NFL....and although they lost a HOF QB...this team shouldn't fall off with his departure. We are talking about a team that has depth...studs in key positions and has something to prove. The only weakness I see on this team is the talent in the deep secondary...I'm not sure if Collins is going to go back to the playmaker he was in his rookie year. Now I'm not stupid enough to think the packers are going to pull off another 13-3 season...but that has nothing to do with the loss of farve...and everything to do with the other teams in their division improving. I'm think 10 or 11 wins...gets them the 2nd seed in the Playoffs and a NFL North Division Championship.

---I have to disagee. GB is in serious trouble especially on offense. Favre covered up a lot of their weaknesses and made very average starters into studs. With Favre at QB, teams were forced to defend the pass first leaving a huge gap in the middle to defend the run. Without Favre's threat teams will load up in the middle and take all the easy yards away from Davis. He could struggle big time. Franchise QB's like Favre can make WR's look a lot better than they are, he can turn a mediocre receiver into a star. If GB was so sure their WR's were the real deal, why draft Nelson?? Finally, you have a QB who was drafted late in round 1, hardly a sure fire prospect, who must now prove that he can get the job done, with huge question marks at RB and WR. Rodgers has yet to shoew he can run a franchise and be a winner.
If it wasn't for the fact that the NFC North is a rotten Division with few goodf football teams, GB would be the favourite for last place.
We'll just agree to remember this come playoff time and one of us will be eating crow

2) Top 3 out of 4 is bad in 2008?
So many of us were excited on draft day. Yet when you think back to the draft you realize that the top 3 offensive picks really are going to have to exceed expectations to even be in the running for OROY this year. Jake Long is a great lineman...but this isn't the Big 10 anymore...He is going to get beat this season....and really I'm not going to put a ton of blame on him...but when you have to cover up your #1 overall pick by running the ball 30 times a game I have trouble justifying the selection. Sparano is a hell of a coach and if anyone can get the most out of Long it will be him...but I just don't think his feet were as nimble as advertised...which isn't a big deal...but against the elite rushers in the league he just isn't going to have a chance. Matt Ryan...this was a great pick for the Falcons but this is going to be like almost every other rookie qb in the league their rookie year...total abuse. Now Ryan is intelligent which will help...but nothing is going to keep him from getting beat up behind that patchy line...and just going along the progression almost all starting rookie qb's go through. I'm looking for about 60% completion percentage and about 50/50 td:int ratio his first year. Lastly Darren McFadden...as a cowboys fan I had to hear about this all year long...but I really can't get over the fact that the raiders took him. We are talking about a guy playing a position where it's been well documented you can find production later and cheaper...yet he goes top three to a team that already had 3 efficient runners. Now idk if Fargas is as dynamic as DMac...but I do know that Fargas is more productive per dollar. And crazy al really is crazy in my mind...I just don't see enough touches going around...and if I draft a RB top 3 I'm going to try to get the ball in his hands atleast 18-20 times a game...and I'm not sure if McFadden is going to see that this year or not. I loved DMac as a prospect but I absolutely hate the fit.

---Your assessment of rookies is rather absurd. If Long isn't OROY, it will be because he's an OT and rookie OT's just don't get much publicity. Joe Thomas couldn't win it last year even though he was dominate. Miami is strong at RB and every Parcell teams have pounded the ball using the run to set up the pass. So it should come as no surprise that Long will be used to establish the run and if Miami can run the ball, the DE's in the league will be forced to defend the run first slowing down any pass rush they may want to do. I believe Long will be a complete stud at LT and enable Miami to play offense the way they want to.
Ryan is a QB which makes him a 3 to 4 year project but that is how you get a franchise QB and there isn't 1 GM in pro football who wouldn't draft a QB if there was a need and one was available when they draft.
Finally, Mcfadden. It is a complete myth that you can find a real stud RB later in the draft. Over 90% of all the top RB's in the league were drafted in round 1. Sure, if you want a guy who is nothing special, you can wait till rounds 2 or 3 but the odds of getting a star there are rather miniscual. Fargus has had 1 season since he entered pro football where he stayed healthy and you want to build your franchise around him. I see McFadden putting up at least 1500 yards this season and leading Oakland to around a 8-8 season. He's explosive and will require a double team when he goes out into passing routes opening up the coverage on the team's other receivers. I guess Minny was stupid for drafting Peterson.
I'm not saying that the top 3 guys are busts...just that I don't expect much contribution from them. I don't care of Miami is running the ball...you have to have the threat of a adaquet passing game to get the run game going...and until that happens Mia will be running into 8 man fronts...if this is the case Long is going to be blocking in passing situations. Now I don't think he is a bad tackle...but going up against elite rushers is just something that he isn't going to be able to do on his own in this league. But I'm sure Sparano will give him help with chips from the TE/RB. Ryan yes is a project just like any QB coming out...I touched on that tho in my description.

Our biggest difference is our views on McFadden...I'd be willing to be a large amount of money/aka pride that McFadden doesn't break a 1000 yards rushing....Oakland has already stated that carries are going to be spread out and that alone is enough for me to not be scared of McFadden....once again we'll wait till playoff time to see who is right or wrong.


Beast known as the East
I'm not talking about the NFC East tho...I'm talking about the soon to be most improved division in football. The patriots are the cream of the crop in the NFL...no use telling you guys stuff you already know. But I'm extremely high on the dolphins and Bills this year. The Jets with the addition of Brett Farve only get better. Every team in that division this year has improved...and I'm looking at a big turn around for the dolphins...7-9 is a distinct possibility which is huge in a division where you play the pats twice a year. The Bills are a team I really began to follow last year...and it seemed every game they played was within 3 points either way. I'm looking for more consistency out of the QB position in Buffalo and I see no reason why they can't make a bid into the playoffs. The wild card into making this division a success is the Jets. Now I'm not one of those naive Farve fans that think that the Jets are now legit super bowl contenders...but the team is young and if the defense can take it to the next level Farve should at least be able to keep the running game easier with his presence alone on the field.

The Dolphins and the Bills will be improved but have immense ground to cover before they will scare anybody. Buffalo won't see the playoffs this year until Edwards gets a lot better.
As for the Jets, Favre has shown in the past that he doesn't handle coaching changes very well. his worst seasons were when GB changed HC's. If he doesn't get off to a good start in NY, the fans could be without mercy, this isn't GB where he was an icon who could do no wrong. It may well take him a year to settle in.
Edwards doesn't need to be an all-pro to take them to the playoffs imo...he may need to make clutch throws at times...but he has the talent around him to be servicable and win right now imo

4) Brady Quinn where can he win?
I was a huge Brady Quinn fan when he came out...loved what I heard about him last offseason and then WHAM...Anderson comes in and lights it up. Anderson doesn't look like he is letting up either. Although he had a down end of the season last year...something like more INT's then TD's in his last 8 games he got his new 3 year deal in feburary...and you got to believe that the browns love his gamer mentality. The knock on Quinn I've been hearing this offseason is not being aggressive enough...choosing to check down rather than force it. Now if Anderson struggles the first five or so games in Cleveland this year I think we see Quinn get his shot...but to be honest...with that much talent on offense I find it hard to believe a QB wouldn't be able to win with that team. Although we can't overlook the loss of Big Joe at WR...as he was there 3rd down machine with his size...something that has seemingly gone unreplaced(not a word) this offseason.

5) The boys are back in town
Yes I am going ahead and predicting the first playoff victory for the cowboys in 12 years. The reason is...they are due...they have outplayed their opponents in there last two appearances and came away just short both times. They have upgraded their biggest weakness (cb) and made it a strength with the additions of Pacman/Jenkins/Scandrick. The brought in veteran leadership to a team that has really been lacking in that department on the defensive side of that ball in Zach Thomas. They picked up a better compliment for MB3 in Felix Jones...and on top of that they resigned all their targeted team FA's this offseason. We are talking about marquee guys like Flozell Adams/Terrell Owens/Terrence Newman/Marion Barber/Ken Hamlin these guys are key components...and oh yea did I mention that we also retained our offensive coordinator Jason Garrett? What about the addition in the secondary with coach Dave Campo? All and all this team has no excuse not to execute this year...and they will be the cream of the crop in the NFC 12-4.

---It all won't make a bit of difference until Romo shows he can actually win a big game in the playoffs. I'm just not sure Romo has the mental toughness to take Dallas to the next stage.
To me I guess I feel Romo has proved he has the mental toughness in the regular season...like i said...packers game/colts game/even the buffalo game he had to overcome adversity to put his teams in positions to win. I really find it hard to blame the Giants loss on him...I didn't see him missing open WR's...I saw him trying to make plays. We should get a good look at it this year tho...three years of playoff failure is going to be bad news for him in the media if it happens

6) Pittsburgh who?
Thats what I think about when I watch TV nowadays...no one seems to be talking about the Steelers. And this is really a crying shame. If you look at the division who do they really have? The Bengals still have a porous defense the ravens are undergoing a new coaching staff change....with either Troy Smith or Kyle Boller as their starter? The Browns are up and coming...but that defense still isn't going to keep them in ballgames against the elite teams. Bottomline is the Steelers are good...and sure people are making a deal about losing some peices on the offensive line...but they added another RB to the mix...have a healthy Willie Parker...Holmes and Ben seem to have upped their game to another level and Ward is still Ward. I'm not expecting much of a change at all this year for the Steelers offense...I mean it's not like big ben didn't get knocked around last year....through the 2nd half of the season he trailed only Tom Brady in passer rating...so I expect a little more out of the Steelers offense this year. Has the Steelers defense changed in the last 10 years? If so I haven't noticed it....Hampton is going to be ready for the opener from what I've been reading...and Troy should be ready to go as well...I'm looking for big things out of Pittsburgh and they should have the division title at the end of the season. Looking for about 11 wins for them this year.

---The question mark with Pittsburgh is still their HC. Is he a winner? This will be a telling season for him and will this 4-3 HC finally try to switch Pittsburgh away from their 3-4 or will he be comfortable staying another year in a 3-4 if the team struggles.
The steelers will be running the 3-4 as long as Lebeau is around.

7) OROY
I'm going to have to go with a guy who I feel can step in from day one on a team where he should get a lot of time. Jonathan Stewart over in Carolina has been tearing it up in training camp and has been reported that he is playing like a man amongst boy's over there. Stewart I believe is going to see some special teams work as well which should only help his cause for ROY. Having Steve Smith suspended for the first two games shouldn't hurt his stats either...if he stays healthy he really should have a great shot of taking home the title. Looking for over 1000 total yards and atleast 10 TD's to get him to win this award.

---That's all nice but Deangelo Williams has been sensational in his exhibition game and might just keep Stewart on the bench. I think McFadden will walk away with OROY.
McFadden will need injuries and a passing game to be in the ROY conversation imo

8) DROY
The first thought I wanted to give the nod to Aqib Talib...a kid I'm expecting huge things from as a rookie...but I'm not sold that there is going to be enough hype down in TB to give this kid the props he deserves so I'm going to go with Kenny Phillips. Phillips has been lights out in camps from reports...supposedly hitting everything in site....which is good and bad...but Phillips is in a good situation with a strong NY pass rush and should be in position to make a ton of plays for that defense this year. If he plays the way he can play I really don't see anyone taking it away from him. Look for him to get atleast 5 picks...and about 90 tackles.

---The last 2 DROY were LB's who played on absolutely rotten teams. It is far easier for them to put up remarkable stats and rookies playing on miserable teams are far more likely to see the field sooner. Some 75% of 1st round picks don't start in game one, many have to wait till game 7 or 8 before they get any extensiive playing time.
Kenny Phillips will start week 1

9) MVP
Tony Romo. In order for dallas to get over the hump this year...it is going to take the very best of Tony Romo for 16 straight games this year. Tony Romo has only started 26 games so far in his career...and yet it is hard to find a more productive QB during those times. People say he doesn't play well in big games...but 2006 Colts game and 2007 Packers game ring a bell of when he played well in big games...where both teams were undefeated over halfway through the season. If Tony can put it together...he has all the weapons he needs this year to put together a MVP type season...factor in that this is his second year in Garretts offense...he doesn't have an excuse not to be in the running. He broke quite a few passing records in dallas last year...I look for him to improve on those numbers this year. To win the MVP he is going to have to be right around that 65% completion percentage with about 4400 yards with a td:int ration of 2:1. If he does this...should give him a qb rating of just over 100 and put him in a legit spot to win the MVP award.

---An extreme longshot at best until he proves he can get over the hump.

10) Superbowl Champions?
I'm going to have to go with the Indianapolis Colts this year over the Saints. The Colts are just about the same team as last year...with Sanders returning..and Addai and Gonzalez getting another year under their belt...I look for Peyton to add to his status as a top QB of all time. The Saints just won't have the secondary to stop Indy's passing attack. Final Score 35-24

---I doubt the Colts make it especially since Peyton isn't closs to being the top QB of all time. NE looks like a cinch to me as Brady @ CO. has something to attune for.
The Saints are certainly a possibility but still have to prove they can get over the hump before I crown them,.
Peyton manning isn't cloe to being a top qb of all time>? Thats news to me...and yes I agree NE looks like a legit shot...which is why they are the favorites at this point.


for boe
Off the Wall shots
1) Giants won't make the playoffs...and their losses that weren't addressed as well as other teams in the division

---The Giants may well suffer from SB itis and fall flat on their faces as many other SB winners have done, because they spent too much time partying and not enough time getting ready for the coming season.

2) Laurence Maroney will have over 1500 yards in rushing..which is about 670 more yards than last year

---Maroney isn't even a cinch to start for NE. Joirdan will give him all he can handle for the starting job.
Faulk is another year old and Maroney really got more playing time as the season went on....I find it extremely hard to believe that we see the same arial attack form NE that we saw last year...and I expect the pats to go with a much more balanced attack this year...which is why I give Maroney the big numbers.

3) Chester Taylor will have ypc than Adrian Peterson

---I seriously doubt it!

4) Troy Smith won't start opening week but will by midway through the season

---I think he has an excellent shot at starting at least the first 7 games, after that it will depend on how successful he has been.
I find it hard to believe he will get a shot to start week 1 over Boller but we will see.

5) Both Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton will start a game as the Bears QB
6) Felix Jones will better and MORE productive than Darren McFadden (sorry for the number10 reference) will have more yards from scrimmage.

---I don't think it will; be close. I could see McFadden putting up 1500 yards and I don't think Jones comes anywhere close to those #'s.

...............................

thule
08-13-2008, 09:05 AM
Thule's right, being a replacement for Joe Jurevicius, the greatest white WR or all time in the modern-era, is pretty tough to do. Hubbard's not even close to being there

Wes Welker!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!11

scottyboy
08-13-2008, 09:24 AM
Wes Welker!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!11

who? whoever he is, he can't hold JJ's jock!

Jurevicius FTW!!!!!1!!one!1!!

Number 10
08-13-2008, 09:48 AM
But thats exactly why Tuck can't replace Strahan.

Year Team G Solo Ast Total Sack YdsL Int Yds IntTD DefTD FFum PD Sfty
Michael Strahan 2007 NY Giants 16 45 12 57 9.0 65 0 0 0 0 1 2 0
Justin Tuck 2007 NY Giants 16 48 17 65 10.0 61 0 0 0 0 2 1 0

I keep hearing about how Justin Tuck is going to replace Strahan, but, last year, the Giants had

Strahan Cofield Tuck Umenyiora - Yeah, Tuck wasn't the starting DT, but he rotated in a lot of put up numbers comparable with any starter.

So they lose Strahan.
LDE DT DT RDE
??? Cofield Tuck Umenyiora

And Justin Tuck is going to replace Strahan

LDE DT DT RDE
Tuck Cofield ??? Umenyiora

But Tuck will still play DT during passing downs.

LDE DT DT RDE
??? Cofield Tuck Umenyiora

And while they're developing young players, Tollefson and Alford combined are not a replacement for

LDE DT DT RDE
??? Cofield Tuck Umenyiora

^
the production they got from Strahan there

or

Tuck Cofield ??? Umenyiora
__________^the production they got from Tuck there

Strahan was a big part of the Giants defensive line, the unit that got there where they were. And Tuck can't just step in and replace him because he was already a big part of the Giants defensive line as well.


JMHO.

Not once do you mention Mathias Kiwanuka. Not once do you mention our best DT Fred Robbins. That's a bad job by you.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-13-2008, 10:04 AM
Um... Kiwi plays SLB, and I doubt you see him line up at DE a whole lot.

Yes you will, this has already been brought up by our DC, via interviews and by our GM too. Kiwi will be all over the place. Let's not forget about Wynn either. He was an important signing because he can play inside as a DT or outside as a DE. So that gives us versatility as well.

Number 10
08-13-2008, 10:08 AM
I don't want anyone to think that the loss of Strahan is being shoved under the rug. He was the best DE in the league against the run and really turned it on against the pass as the season progressed. But the combination of young talent we have in the trenches, Steve Spagnuolo, and our scheme...trying to say our pass rush is going to be anything worse than top 5 in the NFL is downright silly.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-13-2008, 10:14 AM
I don't want anyone to think that the loss of Strahan is being shoved under the rug. He was the best DE in the league against the run and really turned it on against the pass as the season progressed. But the combination of young talent we have in the trenches, Steve Spagnuolo, and our scheme...trying to say our pass rush is going to be anything worse than top 5 in the NFL is downright silly.

People want to make it like we will be lost with Strahan...

Spags: ok, they are lining up in trips right. So we are going to double fire mike, Rover, cover 3.

Antonio Pierce: How? What do you mean? We can't...WE DON'T HAVE A LEADER!!!!!!!!


Give me a break. Strahan, our fearless leader, wasn't in training camp for all last season. Do you think the team stopped because we didn't have a leader? Someone else always steps up and becomes that leader. Pierce was practically a co-leader last season. Strahan gave the "stomp you out" speech, but AP was the leader of the defense. He is the heart and soul of that defense, and makes sure everyone, including the D-line are lined up correctly.

This team is truly a team, people need to understand that. No more Tivi, no more Shockey, and now this team is settled and has no big time issues of people under mining the coach.

thule
08-13-2008, 10:22 AM
The thing that people are saying is that the other three teams in the division didn't lose their best defensive player. They didn't lose offensive gamebreakers...the Giants did...and thats why a lot of people are skeptical of the Giants getting to the playoffs...because the other teams in the divisions upgraded...the Giants downgraded slightly.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-13-2008, 10:30 AM
The thing that people are saying is that the other three teams in the division didn't lose their best defensive player. They didn't lose offensive gamebreakers...the Giants did...and thats why a lot of people are skeptical of the Giants getting to the playoffs...because the other teams in the divisions upgraded...the Giants downgraded slightly.

Strahan was a very good defensive player. But he hasn't been the best for a while guys. He lost a step in his game, specifically on the pass rushing side, and also has to fight off injuries, which caused him to get slimmer, and get down to 255 which was rare for him. One area he was consistent in, and even he said took pride in, was stopping the run. That was an area he never really declined in. He was still able dis-engage blockers, and locate the ball, and make a play.

Every year people are sketical. Now it's the point it's kind of expected. People were skepitcal with Eli, and I am sure people are still skeptical, and that's fine. People were skeptical, when we lost Tiki, and we managed. Now people are skeptical with the loss of Strahan.. It never stops, which is funny in a way. But hey, if that means the team putting a chip on their shoulder, then fine by me. The Giants and even our fan base have learned to embrace the underdog role. Now it's kind of fun in a way.

And I disagree, we didn't down grade. We filled all our loses with free agents and drafted player. We lost Wilson, we signed Sammy Knight, and drafted KP. We lost Strahan, we signed Renaldo Wynn, who by the way can play DT and DE, suprise, suprise. We lost mitchell, we signed Danny Clark, and drafted 2 LBs. We also added a WR and CB to the mix as well. We have ALL our coaches back AND now our offense gets consistency under Gilbride.

Crickett
08-13-2008, 10:34 AM
Not once do you mention Mathias Kiwanuka. Not once do you mention our best DT Fred Robbins. That's a bad job by you.

That post originally had Robbins, but I replaced him with Cofield. But much like everyone I did mention in that thread, Robbins played last year too. So much like Tuck, he's not an addition or a replacement. He was already there.

As for Kiwanuka, everything I heard is how he's finally starting to get the nuances of the linebacker position and how he's finally adjusting to that position. And he, like everyone else mentioned did play last year although not in the playoffs and he, like everyone else mentioned, is a downgrade from Michael Strahan at DE.

Now yes, there is every reason to think that the Giants pass will be in the top 5 or 6. But last year, they were in the top 1, seperated from #2 by a fairly hefty margin. Thats what got them to the Superbowl.

scottyboy
08-13-2008, 10:35 AM
The thing that people are saying is that the other three teams in the division didn't lose their best defensive player. They didn't lose offensive gamebreakers...the Giants did...and thats why a lot of people are skeptical of the Giants getting to the playoffs...because the other teams in the divisions upgraded...the Giants downgraded slightly.

we didn't lose a gamebreaker... Shockey was excellent, but honestly, didn't do **** for us last year

he's a gamebreaker, but wasn't for us. He'll tear it up in NO though.

We'll be ok, Tuck will be fine filling in at DE and Osi is still Osi(top 3 DE IMHO). PLUS Wynn and Tollefson will fill Tuck's roll nicely. Both are big and quick ad will stay fresh. Tollefson will be a known name after this year. Spags is just a freaking genius, copied from Johnson. He'll put our guys where they need to be to thrive

AND he got his safety in Phillips, who can cover! Gibril was an excellent in the box safety, but since Butler can't cover a lick, Gibril played out of position in coverage, where Phillips will be fine. I understand the doubt and skepticism, but i doubt the Super Bowl champs make that big a drop from champs to not making the super bowl...

and as I posted in PF's thread: "Dare you doubt us again?"

Sam Madison and Pierce will easily step up as leaders, as well as Osi(albeit amore comical leader) and O'Hara is the leader of the OL and O really. Strahan will be sorely missed, but won't kill us

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRsYROOO20w

scottyboy
08-13-2008, 10:37 AM
That post originally had Robbins, but I replaced him with Cofield. But much like everyone I did mention in that thread, Robbins played last year too. So much like Tuck, he's not an addition or a replacement. He was already there.

As for Kiwanuka, everything I heard is how he's finally starting to get the nuances of the linebacker position and how he's finally adjusting to that position. And he, like everyone else mentioned did play last year although not in the playoffs and he, like everyone else mentioned, is a downgrade from Michael Strahan at DE.

Now yes, there is every reason to think that the Giants pass will be in the top 5 or 6. But last year, they were in the top 1, seperated from #2 by a fairly hefty margin. Thats what got them to the Superbowl.

it could still be argued we're still atop with Osi, Tuck, Kiwi and Spags. I still think we lead the league in sacks, and thule is 100% right. Phillips will win DROY, in part because he's awesome, and because our pass rush will get him INT's

Number 10
08-13-2008, 10:42 AM
The thing that people are saying is that the other three teams in the division didn't lose their best defensive player. They didn't lose offensive gamebreakers...the Giants did...and thats why a lot of people are skeptical of the Giants getting to the playoffs...because the other teams in the divisions upgraded...the Giants downgraded slightly.

Same thing was said last year at this time.

Number 10
08-13-2008, 10:46 AM
That post originally had Robbins, but I replaced him with Cofield. But much like everyone I did mention in that thread, Robbins played last year too. So much like Tuck, he's not an addition or a replacement. He was already there.

As for Kiwanuka, everything I heard is how he's finally starting to get the nuances of the linebacker position and how he's finally adjusting to that position. And he, like everyone else mentioned did play last year although not in the playoffs and he, like everyone else mentioned, is a downgrade from Michael Strahan at DE.

Now yes, there is every reason to think that the Giants pass will be in the top 5 or 6. But last year, they were in the top 1, seperated from #2 by a fairly hefty margin. Thats what got them to the Superbowl.

Oh I am still very confident the Giants have the BEST pass rush in the NFL right now. I'm trying to avoid the "nobody can touch us" lines for obvious reasons however.

bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 10:47 AM
Is Kiwi moving back to DE for 2008? Just curious.

scottyboy
08-13-2008, 10:51 AM
Is Kiwi moving back to DE for 2008? Just curious.

he will on passing situations, but he's our starting SLB this year.

another interesting thing weve been toying with: Kiwi with his hand on the ground, and Tuck back in coverage. that should be fun

NY+Giants=NYG
08-13-2008, 10:51 AM
Is Kiwi moving back to DE for 2008? Just curious.

He will play both.. We will have him couple series as DE, and then also playing LB, with occasional plays as a DE. So we continue moving people around.

Plus we fire zone alot, so in a way it doesn't matter. Tuck drops back in coverage, and Kiwi rushes anyways, so everything all works itself out in our system.

ALD
08-13-2008, 12:43 PM
Um... Kiwi plays SLB, and I doubt you see him line up at DE a whole lot.

My god I must need psychiatric help, I'm clearly a masochist, that's the only explanation for actually reading your posts.

Sorry for that out burst but in our base package, which last year went Strahan - Cofield - Robbins - Osi, Kiwi will be the SAM, however in our nickel package, which last year went Strahan - Tuck - Alford - Osi, Kiwi will be playing Strahan's LDE spot. So even with all of the progress Kiwi has made at SLB he'll still be getting a lot of snaps at DE. Hope that makes sense to you and you are able to remember it.

ALD
08-13-2008, 12:56 PM
That post originally had Robbins, but I replaced him with Cofield. But much like everyone I did mention in that thread, Robbins played last year too. So much like Tuck, he's not an addition or a replacement. He was already there.

As for Kiwanuka, everything I heard is how he's finally starting to get the nuances of the linebacker position and how he's finally adjusting to that position. And he, like everyone else mentioned did play last year although not in the playoffs and he, like everyone else mentioned, is a downgrade from Michael Strahan at DE.

Now yes, there is every reason to think that the Giants pass will be in the top 5 or 6. But last year, they were in the top 1, seperated from #2 by a fairly hefty margin. Thats what got them to the Superbowl.

Actually Kiwi got hurt pretty early in the season, long before our run into and through the playoffs, when the team really took it to another level, so while he technically did play last year, he didn't play much once Spags got really comfortable and creative with the defense.

Personally I think Kiwi might be even better than Strahan as a pass rusher, but that's a combination of Strahan having slipped a little as a pass rusher and me personally being a big Kiwi fan.

Geo
08-13-2008, 01:05 PM
Kiwanuka played his last game in Week 11 at Detroit. (http://www.nfl.com/players/mathiaskiwanuka/gamelogs?id=KIW059326&season=2007)

ALD
08-13-2008, 01:31 PM
Kiwanuka played his last game in Week 11 at Detroit. (http://www.nfl.com/players/mathiaskiwanuka/gamelogs?id=KIW059326&season=2007)

Which was before we started playing good football.

Most of the season we played down to our opponents and succeeded because we had an easy schedule. That's been one of our biggest problems, we play to the level of our opponents, up and down.

Number 10
08-13-2008, 04:39 PM
FYI In Michael Strahan's book, he states that Kiwanuka is the best young pass rusher he has ever been around.

ALD
08-13-2008, 04:42 PM
FYI In Michael Strahan's book, he states that Kiwanuka is the best young pass rusher he has ever been around.

I love me some kiwi.

Geo
08-13-2008, 05:14 PM
So which Giants' defensive end is currently God's ultimate gift to pass rushing?

We've had to hear that it was mighty and unstoppable Osi Umenyiora for a few years, I guess it's Justin Tuck now.

ALD
08-13-2008, 05:48 PM
So which Giants' defensive end is currently God's ultimate gift to pass rushing?

We've had to hear that it was mighty and unstoppable Osi Umenyiora for a few years, I guess it's Justin Tuck now.

I still think Osi's our best DE at the moment, although Tuck's versatility is huge and kiwi has the potential to put all of them to shame. So I guess all 3 are god's gift to pass rushing.

scottyboy
08-13-2008, 07:02 PM
So which Giants' defensive end is currently God's ultimate gift to pass rushing?

We've had to hear that it was mighty and unstoppable Osi Umenyiora for a few years, I guess it's Justin Tuck now.

easily Osi. hes the best DE, ever. He's so awesome...<3

bearsfan_51
08-13-2008, 07:50 PM
FYI In Michael Strahan's book, he states that Kiwanuka is the best young pass rusher he has ever been around.
Is that Michael Strahan the professional scout or Michael Strahan the respected position coach? Oh neither? Well then I don't give a **** what he thinks.

D-Unit
08-13-2008, 08:15 PM
Is that Michael Strahan the professional scout or Michael Strahan the respected position coach? Oh neither? Well then I don't give a **** what he thinks.
Dayum.. Do NOT mess with The Professor.

On another note, I think the Giants will not be the same this year without Strahan. Especially off the field, where he was the glue that tried to keep everyone in line. Everyone talks about how scary the Cowboys locker room could potentially get. But the Giants locker room... that place has always been crazy volatile. At least they got rid of Shockey though. That's one less headache.

scottyboy
08-13-2008, 08:20 PM
Dayum.. Do NOT mess with The Professor.

On another note, I think the Giants will not be the same this year without Strahan. Especially off the field, where he was the glue that tried to keep everyone in line. Everyone talks about how scary the Cowboys locker room could potentially get. But the Giants locker room... that place has always been crazy volatile. At least they got rid of Shockey though. That's one less headache.

not really D. we don't have any characters really. Madison is the leader and teacher or our young DB's(honestly, was another coach during the postseason.) Pierce was just as vocal last year, and everyone forgets how he challenged the team and called out the media before week 3 with the airhorn incident that got him scrutinized, but the team said later motivated them greatly. We don't have the prima-donna WR, you can say Plaxico, but he wouldn't come close to disrupting the locker room. Throw in other leaders like O'Hara and the comical leader in Osi, and our locker room will be just fine.

our locker room was crazy because of: Tiki, Shockey, Petigout leaking info, and yes, even Strahan early in the TC era calling him out. We're fine now, thanks for caring though :D

Jughead10
08-13-2008, 08:26 PM
It's not a coincidence that they are only a +425 on the ML down in vegas right now or 6/1 on bodog to win the superbowl....in both cases 2nd best odds to win it all behind the pats. I really tried to keep homerism out of this as much as possible.

Not sure if this was addressed yet, but do you understand how making lines work? The fact that the Cowboys have the most fans in the country will always make their lines better (or worse depending on if you are looking to make money) than it should be. It is the same way for the Yankees. Cowboy fans are going to bet the Cowboys every year they think they have a halfway decent team. If Vegas has them at 15/1, they are going to lose a bunch of money if the Cwoboys actually win. Vegas does not make lines on who they actually think is the best team. They are in the business of just taking their 10%.

thule
08-13-2008, 08:29 PM
Not sure if this was addressed yet, but do you understand how making lines work? The fact that the Cowboys have the most fans in the country will always make their lines better (or worse depending on if you are looking to make money) than it should be. It is the same way for the Yankees. Cowboy fans are going to bet the Cowboys every year they think they have a halfway decent team. If Vegas has them at 15/1, they are going to lose a bunch of money if the Cwoboys actually win. Vegas does not make lines on who they actually think is the best team. They are in the business of just taking their 10%.

Yes I understand how it works...and yes it was discussed earlier on page one....I just brought this up for the simple reason that 2/10 reviews weren't out of the ordinary for a team heavily favored to make it deep into the playoffs...whether it was because of heavy homers betting or not.

Jughead10
08-13-2008, 08:34 PM
Yes I understand how it works...and yes it was discussed earlier on page one....I just brought this up for the simple reason that 2/10 reviews weren't out of the ordinary for a team heavily favored to make it deep into the playoffs...whether it was because of heavy homers betting or not.

I don't care that you picked the Cowboys. They have a good team. I've just seen quite a few times on this site, where people don't understand how lines are made. The experts who make these lines don't actually handicap the games, they handicap how they think people will bet. It's just not a good way to back up an opinion or point.

Number 10
08-13-2008, 09:02 PM
Is that Michael Strahan the professional scout or Michael Strahan the respected position coach? Oh neither? Well then I don't give a **** what he thinks.

Before anybody saw Osi coming, Strahan spoke up. I would think one of the best defensive ends ever to play the game would know a thing or two when it comes to projecting talent. But certainly not more than a Bears fan who has a lot of posts on an internet forum, no way.

Number 10
08-13-2008, 09:03 PM
So which Giants' defensive end is currently God's ultimate gift to pass rushing?

We've had to hear that it was mighty and unstoppable Osi Umenyiora for a few years, I guess it's Justin Tuck now.

You don't need to listen anymore if it really bugs you, just watch the games I guess. But don't say I didn't tell you.

Osi and Peppers....I still laugh about that one.

Malaka
08-13-2008, 09:06 PM
I am a Giants fan, and I am in no way saying Tuck and Kiwi don't have the potential to be great... but I just can't judge them by what Strahan says, he may arguably be one of the greatest DEs of all time, but unless Kiwi and Tuck both prove Strahan right I won't trust him. For example (although Basketball) Michael Jordan may be the best basketball player ever but he really does not have an eye for talent, ex. Kwame Brown, Raymond Felton (he is decent nothing special).

If Strahan is proved right and they both excel greatly as pass rushers then, Strahan is credible, and should become a coach ASAP.

Number 10
08-13-2008, 09:11 PM
I am a Giants fan, and I am in no way saying Tuck and Kiwi don't have the potential to be great... but I just can't judge them by what Strahan says, he may arguably be one of the greatest DEs of all time, but unless Kiwi and Tuck both prove Strahan right I won't trust him. For example (although Basketball) Michael Jordan may be the best basketball player ever but he really does not have an eye for talent, ex. Kwame Brown, Raymond Felton (he is decent nothing special).

If Strahan is proved right and they both excel greatly as pass rushers then, Strahan is credible, and should become a coach ASAP.

I never said Kiwanuka is going to be a star because of what Strahan said...it was just another bit of information to throw into the discussion.

Malaka
08-13-2008, 09:28 PM
I never said Kiwanuka is going to be a star because of what Strahan said...it was just another bit of information to throw into the discussion.

I never said that, I was just stating my opinion on Strahan's scouting of DEs. ;)

bearsfan_51
08-13-2008, 09:52 PM
Before anybody saw Osi coming, Strahan spoke up. I would think one of the best defensive ends ever to play the game would know a thing or two when it comes to projecting talent. But certainly not more than a Bears fan who has a lot of posts on an internet forum, no way.

Actually I never said anything about Kiwi, I just think your example is a ****** one. I could really care less about the Giants either way.

So star talent equates to the ability to find other star talent? Is that why so many ex-greats turn into great coaches and general managers? Is that why Michael Jordan and Isaih Thomas are both up for executives of the year? How did Magic Johnson do as a head coach? Michael Irvin and Emmith Smith were two of the best players at their respective positions and they can't put together a coherant thought. The ability to play doesn't translate in the ability to scout, it's two totally different skill sets. You probably would think otherwise, but you would be very wrong.

BlindSite
08-13-2008, 10:14 PM
Actually I never said anything about Kiwi, I just think your example is a ****** one. I could really care less about the Giants either way.

So star talent equates to the ability to find other star talent? Is that why so many ex-greats turn into great coaches and general managers? Is that why Michael Jordan and Isaih Thomas are both up for executives of the year? How did Magic Johnson do as a head coach? Michael Irvin and Emmith Smith were two of the best players at their respective positions and they can't put together a coherant thought. The ability to play doesn't translate in the ability to scout, it's two totally different skill sets. You probably would think otherwise, but you would be very wrong.

I agree that a good player does not a good scout make, but by the same token when you've been around the league and been around as many great defensive coaches as Strahan has you learn a few things.

While I don't think that either Tuck or Kiwi will be equal to Strahan's production as a single player I think that rotating them in to keep them fresh will prove to be an effecitve option... enough of one to nullify Strahan's on field production.

I will agree though that his leadership will be sorely missed. Then again its crazy to suggest that a veteran will always leave a big hole because young players and free agents can and do stand up as leaders.

Jughead10
08-13-2008, 11:29 PM
I agree that a good player does not a good scout make, but by the same token when you've been around the league and been around as many great defensive coaches as Strahan has you learn a few things.

While I don't think that either Tuck or Kiwi will be equal to Strahan's production as a single player I think that rotating them in to keep them fresh will prove to be an effecitve option... enough of one to nullify Strahan's on field production.

I will agree though that his leadership will be sorely missed. Then again its crazy to suggest that a veteran will always leave a big hole because young players and free agents can and do stand up as leaders.

I think Tuck can be as good a Strahan was last year. I have no doubt because he ws better than him last year. The problem is I'm not sure Kiwi can be. When it is third and long and Tuck moves back inside, can Kiwi be as good as Strahan was on the outside? That is yet to be seen. It hurts our overall depth and rotation more than anything.

Iamcanadian
08-13-2008, 11:48 PM
Iamcanadian, GIants too much time partying? Where the hell'd you get that from? that's the furthest thing from the truth.

see now I KNOW guys are pulling **** out of there ass(not thule, guys responding...

It's called the banquet circuit. Super Bowl players are in huge demand in the off season to attend banquets and is one of the reasons a lot of Super Bowl champions have a hard time repeating or even making the playoffs. If the team ever makes it back to a second championship, they are usually better prepared to handle the adoration that comes from winning but it is hard going after their 1st championship.

Jughead10
08-14-2008, 12:00 AM
It's called the banquet circuit. Super Bowl players are in huge demand in the off season to attend banquets and is one of the reasons a lot of Super Bowl champions have a hard time repeating or even making the playoffs. If the team ever makes it back to a second championship, they are usually better prepared to handle the adoration that comes from winning but it is hard going after their 1st championship.

Unless they were attending a ton of banquets outside the NY/NJ area, I don't think this will be a problem. Only for David Tyree. But he is on PUP after knee surgery anyway.

Iamcanadian
08-14-2008, 12:13 AM
Unless they were attending a ton of banquets outside the NY/NJ area, I don't think this will be a problem. Only for David Tyree. But he is on PUP after knee surgery anyway.

I'm a firm believer that this is why so many Super Bowl winners fail to repeat or even make the playoffs. Even NE failed miserably in their second try.
While the players on teams that came very close to making it to the Super Bowl spend the off season in the gym getting ready for next season, the Giant's players are spending the off season going on the banquet cuircut for which they are paid hansomely. By ther time training camp rolls around, they've not stayed in shape and have a lot of conditioning to do to get back into shape. It usually means a poor start to the season and a hard route to the playoffs.
If you think there is a different reason why Super Bowl teams play poorly the following season then give me a better explanation.

ALD
08-14-2008, 12:16 AM
I'm a firm believer that this is why so many Super Bowl winners fail to repeat or even make the playoffs. Even NE failed miserably in their second try.
While the players on teams that came very close to making it to the Super Bowl spend the off season in the gym getting ready for next season, the Giant's players are spending the off season going on the banquet cuircut for which they are paid hansomely. By ther time training camp rolls around, they've not stayed in shape and have a lot of conditioning to do to get back into shape. It usually means a poor start to the season and a hard route to the playoffs.
If you think there is a different reason why Super Bowl teams play poorly the following season then give me a better explanation.

That wouldn't explain why superbowl losers have been even worse than the winners the past 10 years.

Jughead10
08-14-2008, 12:17 AM
I'm a firm believer that this is why so many Super Bowl winners fail to repeat or even make the playoffs. Even NE failed miserably in their second try.
While the players on teams that came very close to making it to the Super Bowl spend the off season in the gym getting ready for next season, the Giant's players are spending the off season going on the banquet cuircut for which they are paid hansomely. By ther time training camp rolls around, they've not stayed in shape and have a lot of conditioning to do to get back into shape. It usually means a poor start to the season and a hard route to the playoffs.
If you think there is a different reason why Super Bowl teams play poorly the following season then give me a better explanation.

I'm not trying to give you a better explanation. But from someone who pays a lot of attention to where players are appearing in the area, I will tell you that this shouldn't be a problem for the Giants. The only one who really seemd to cash in or take advantage of this was David Tyree. And aside from the absolutely amazing catch, he really isn't a huge contributor to the team. Kevin Boss seemed to a bit as well, but he is in ridiculous shape compared to last year.

Iamcanadian
08-14-2008, 12:29 AM
That wouldn't explain why superbowl losers have been even worse than the winners the past 10 years.

Well, the losers get a huge amount of banquet requests as well but given the condition of the NFC over the last decade, it's difficult to find a team capable of repeating anyways. It has pretty well been an AFC winner until last year.

Sniper
08-15-2008, 10:29 PM
Jake Long is a great lineman...but this isn't the Big 10 anymore...He is going to get beat this season....and really I'm not going to put a ton of blame on him...but when you have to cover up your #1 overall pick by running the ball 30 times a game I have trouble justifying the selection. Sparano is a hell of a coach and if anyone can get the most out of Long it will be him...but I just don't think his feet were as nimble as advertised

How is running the ball "covering up" the #1 pick if his strongest suit is run blocking? This makes zero sense. Parcells likes smashmouth football. It truly is amazing. The guy gets beat for two sacks in four years and "his feet aren't nimble enough". Meanwhile, Ryan Clady is a turnstile in pass protection (8.5 sacks allowed last year in the ******* WAC and it's ZOMGZ POTENTIAL!!!!!!!

But yes, I'm going to need an explanation how running the ball is covering up your #1 pick

thule
08-15-2008, 10:45 PM
How is running the ball "covering up" the #1 pick if his strongest suit is run blocking? This makes zero sense. Parcells likes smashmouth football. It truly is amazing. The guy gets beat for two sacks in four years and "his feet aren't nimble enough". Meanwhile, Ryan Clady is a turnstile in pass protection (8.5 sacks allowed last year in the ******* WAC and it's ZOMGZ POTENTIAL!!!!!!!

But yes, I'm going to need an explanation how running the ball is covering up your #1 pick

Running the ball is covering up his weakness not his strongsuit. I think you misunderstood what I wrote. By running the ball over and over again...It keeps him from having to go against elite pass rushers in pass protection less.

The difference between Long and Clady is...Long's footwork is already closer to perfection...however if both were at the same level in terms of footwork Clady would clearly be the better pass blocking tackle.

Don't get me wrong I have no problem with Long as a tackle in this league. However going up against guys like Freeney/Ware/Merriman's in the league is where he is going to be exposed. I have no problem having him go one on one with an average to above-average DE in the league throughout his career...I'm just not sold that he can go against elite guys at any point in his career without help from backs and TEs. Now granted most elite pass rushers are schemed around anyways..I'm just saying if your drafted #1 overall this shouldn't be a concern anytime in your future...and for me it's a concern.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-15-2008, 10:46 PM
If Jake Long lost to App State he has no hope in the NFL. Plus, they took Henne too. That's a double whammy.

Sniper
08-15-2008, 10:47 PM
If Jake Long lost to App State he has no hope in the NFL. Plus, they took Henne too. That's a double whammy.

Yes, because that was clearly Long and Henne's faults. Not like they were instrumental in putting up 32 points. When you score 32, you should win. Long dominated the ASU DL. Nice try at a wisecrack though.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-15-2008, 10:55 PM
Yes, because that was clearly Long and Henne's faults. Not like they were instrumental in putting up 32 points. When you score 32, you should win. Long dominated the ASU DL. Nice try at a wisecrack though.

My bad, I'll be sure to load my post with Z's and CAPITALS NEXT TIME.

eaglesfan_45
08-15-2008, 10:56 PM
Sniper I think you missed the joke lol.

Iamcanadian
08-16-2008, 11:49 AM
Running the ball is covering up his weakness not his strongsuit. I think you misunderstood what I wrote. By running the ball over and over again...It keeps him from having to go against elite pass rushers in pass protection less.

The difference between Long and Clady is...Long's footwork is already closer to perfection...however if both were at the same level in terms of footwork Clady would clearly be the better pass blocking tackle.

Don't get me wrong I have no problem with Long as a tackle in this league. However going up against guys like Freeney/Ware/Merriman's in the league is where he is going to be exposed. I have no problem having him go one on one with an average to above-average DE in the league throughout his career...I'm just not sold that he can go against elite guys at any point in his career without help from backs and TEs. Now granted most elite pass rushers are schemed around anyways..I'm just saying if your drafted #1 overall this shouldn't be a concern anytime in your future...and for me it's a concern.

I couldn't agree less. Long is a perfect fit in Miami's offense. In their offense the Freeney's, Ware's and Merriman will have a lot more difficulty with his run blocking than he have with pass blocking them. Any team playing Miami has to know that Miami will run to set up the pass and DE's playing Miami are going to have to stop the run before they will ever see an opportunity to rush the passer. When Miami finally does pass, the league DE's will be too caught up in playing the run to have much of an opportunity to tee off on rushing the passer. Miami isn't hiding Long's weaknesses, they are simply utilizing his strengths and attacking pass rushing DE's weaknesses. Sure, in third and long, Miami may be at a disadvantage but what team/LT isn't in that situation.
Long leadership and run blocking skills will more than make up for any shortcomings in Miami's Offense.
Clady is never going to be able to match Long's ability to run block however in his offensive scheme with zone blocking he can be very effective and he will probavbly be a better pass blocker than Long, but if you put Clady on Miami, he wouldn't be very good as a LT who needs to be able to maul the DE facing him to consistantly open holes in a running attack, he'd be lost. Each HC has players who fit his style of play and they often aren't interchangable.
Parcells knew what he wanted in a LT and Long fit his scheme perfectly and based on his success as a winner, it's hard to argue he doesn't know what he is doing.

Burns336
08-16-2008, 01:51 PM
I couldn't agree less. Long is a perfect fit in Miami's offense. In their offense the Freeney's, Ware's and Merriman will have a lot more difficulty with his run blocking than he have with pass blocking them. Any team playing Miami has to know that Miami will run to set up the pass and DE's playing Miami are going to have to stop the run before they will ever see an opportunity to rush the passer. When Miami finally does pass, the league DE's will be too caught up in playing the run to have much of an opportunity to tee off on rushing the passer. Miami isn't hiding Long's weaknesses, they are simply utilizing his strengths and attacking pass rushing DE's weaknesses. Sure, in third and long, Miami may be at a disadvantage but what team/LT isn't in that situation.
Long leadership and run blocking skills will more than make up for any shortcomings in Miami's Offense.
Clady is never going to be able to match Long's ability to run block however in his offensive scheme with zone blocking he can be very effective and he will probavbly be a better pass blocker than Long, but if you put Clady on Miami, he wouldn't be very good as a LT who needs to be able to maul the DE facing him to consistantly open holes in a running attack, he'd be lost. Each HC has players who fit his style of play and they often aren't interchangable.
Parcells knew what he wanted in a LT and Long fit his scheme perfectly and based on his success as a winner, it's hard to argue he doesn't know what he is doing.

Ware will have no such problem with his run blocking. He is going to be god style DOPY this year and for the next 6. Didn't you get the memo.

yourfavestoner
08-16-2008, 03:08 PM
Yes, because that was clearly Long and Henne's faults. Not like they were instrumental in putting up 32 points. When you score 32, you should win. Long dominated the ASU DL. Nice try at a wisecrack though.

http://durham21.co.uk/userfiles/whyso.jpg

thule
08-23-2008, 04:54 AM
I couldn't agree less. Long is a perfect fit in Miami's offense. In their offense the Freeney's, Ware's and Merriman will have a lot more difficulty with his run blocking than he have with pass blocking them. Any team playing Miami has to know that Miami will run to set up the pass and DE's playing Miami are going to have to stop the run before they will ever see an opportunity to rush the passer. When Miami finally does pass, the league DE's will be too caught up in playing the run to have much of an opportunity to tee off on rushing the passer. Miami isn't hiding Long's weaknesses, they are simply utilizing his strengths and attacking pass rushing DE's weaknesses. Sure, in third and long, Miami may be at a disadvantage but what team/LT isn't in that situation.
Long leadership and run blocking skills will more than make up for any shortcomings in Miami's Offense.
Clady is never going to be able to match Long's ability to run block however in his offensive scheme with zone blocking he can be very effective and he will probavbly be a better pass blocker than Long, but if you put Clady on Miami, he wouldn't be very good as a LT who needs to be able to maul the DE facing him to consistantly open holes in a running attack, he'd be lost. Each HC has players who fit his style of play and they often aren't interchangable.
Parcells knew what he wanted in a LT and Long fit his scheme perfectly and based on his success as a winner, it's hard to argue he doesn't know what he is doing.

I have some disagreements...but overall I can see where your coming from on most of it.

Just one thing to nitpick....name one Parcells OL pick in the past 5 years that has amounted to anything.

thule
01-16-2009, 01:31 AM
#1) Packers need no Faver
Well I figured you couldn't have a NFL truths up at this time of the year without starting it off with the biggest thing to hit the USA since sliced bread. The Green Bay Packers are once again going to be the class of the NFC North. Lets face it...they have a ton of weapons...even adding addition of Jordy Nelson to the equation. The young RB's have had another offseason in the weight room and in the film room. Aaron Rodgers has been sitting for 3 years...if he wasn't the answer now he never was going to be. Bottom line is this team is one of the youngest in the NFL....and although they lost a HOF QB...this team shouldn't fall off with his departure. We are talking about a team that has depth...studs in key positions and has something to prove. The only weakness I see on this team is the talent in the deep secondary...I'm not sure if Collins is going to go back to the playmaker he was in his rookie year. Now I'm not stupid enough to think the packers are going to pull off another 13-3 season...but that has nothing to do with the loss of farve...and everything to do with the other teams in their division improving. I'm think 10 or 11 wins...gets them the 2nd seed in the Playoffs and a NFL North Division Championship.


Way off here...GB disappointed to say the least..

2) Top 3 out of 4 is bad in 2008?
So many of us were excited on draft day. Yet when you think back to the draft you realize that the top 3 offensive picks really are going to have to exceed expectations to even be in the running for OROY this year. Jake Long is a great lineman...but this isn't the Big 10 anymore...He is going to get beat this season....and really I'm not going to put a ton of blame on him...but when you have to cover up your #1 overall pick by running the ball 30 times a game I have trouble justifying the selection. Sparano is a hell of a coach and if anyone can get the most out of Long it will be him...but I just don't think his feet were as nimble as advertised...which isn't a big deal...but against the elite rushers in the league he just isn't going to have a chance. Matt Ryan...this was a great pick for the Falcons but this is going to be like almost every other rookie qb in the league their rookie year...total abuse. Now Ryan is intelligent which will help...but nothing is going to keep him from getting beat up behind that patchy line...and just going along the progression almost all starting rookie qb's go through. I'm looking for about 60% completion percentage and about 50/50 td:int ratio his first year. Lastly Darren McFadden...as a cowboys fan I had to hear about this all year long...but I really can't get over the fact that the raiders took him. We are talking about a guy playing a position where it's been well documented you can find production later and cheaper...yet he goes top three to a team that already had 3 efficient runners. Now idk if Fargas is as dynamic as DMac...but I do know that Fargas is more productive per dollar. And crazy al really is crazy in my mind...I just don't see enough touches going around...and if I draft a RB top 3 I'm going to try to get the ball in his hands atleast 18-20 times a game...and I'm not sure if McFadden is going to see that this year or not. I loved DMac as a prospect but I absolutely hate the fit.

Debatable about Long...he definately wasn't abused this year...so I'll take a wrong on this one too.

Ryan was OROTY....but I was close on his numbers...I wasn't expecting that great of a running game which sort of skewed the numbers...but he went 16/11....completing 61% of his passes...close for me but no cigar.

Dmac was quite disappointing for me this year...as I predicted he might. Only rushed for more than 50 yards in a game once this year...and that was against the lowly chiefs in week two. Had more than 15 carries only once and that was in that KC game....Fargus/Bush were plenty fine to get it done this year.

Beast known as the East
I'm not talking about the NFC East tho...I'm talking about the soon to be most improved division in football. The patriots are the cream of the crop in the NFL...no use telling you guys stuff you already know. But I'm extremely high on the dolphins and Bills this year. The Jets with the addition of Brett Farve only get better. Every team in that division this year has improved...and I'm looking at a big turn around for the dolphins...7-9 is a distinct possibility which is huge in a division where you play the pats twice a year. The Bills are a team I really began to follow last year...and it seemed every game they played was within 3 points either way. I'm looking for more consistency out of the QB position in Buffalo and I see no reason why they can't make a bid into the playoffs. The wild card into making this division a success is the Jets. Now I'm not one of those naive Farve fans that think that the Jets are now legit super bowl contenders...but the team is young and if the defense can take it to the next level Farve should at least be able to keep the running game easier with his presence alone on the field.

I'm not sure if it was the best division on football this year...but it did make a climb....the Brady injury hurt this division but at the same time helped it....too bad for buffalo's late season collapse otherwise I would have looked much smarter.

4) Brady Quinn where can he win?
I was a huge Brady Quinn fan when he came out...loved what I heard about him last offseason and then WHAM...Anderson comes in and lights it up. Anderson doesn't look like he is letting up either. Although he had a down end of the season last year...something like more INT's then TD's in his last 8 games he got his new 3 year deal in feburary...and you got to believe that the browns love his gamer mentality. The knock on Quinn I've been hearing this offseason is not being aggressive enough...choosing to check down rather than force it. Now if Anderson struggles the first five or so games in Cleveland this year I think we see Quinn get his shot...but to be honest...with that much talent on offense I find it hard to believe a QB wouldn't be able to win with that team. Although we can't overlook the loss of Big Joe at WR...as he was there 3rd down machine with his size...something that has seemingly gone unreplaced(not a word) this offseason.

Pretty close on this one...Anderson did flop and Quinn came in....the injury left us wondering what's next but....I'd like to say that losing Joe really did show it's head this year....Bray was not good this year...and Winslow had issues during the season...atleast the OL still looks good.

5) The boys are back in town
Yes I am going ahead and predicting the first playoff victory for the cowboys in 12 years. The reason is...they are due...they have outplayed their opponents in there last two appearances and came away just short both times. They have upgraded their biggest weakness (cb) and made it a strength with the additions of Pacman/Jenkins/Scandrick. The brought in veteran leadership to a team that has really been lacking in that department on the defensive side of that ball in Zach Thomas. They picked up a better compliment for MB3 in Felix Jones...and on top of that they resigned all their targeted team FA's this offseason. We are talking about marquee guys like Flozell Adams/Terrell Owens/Terrence Newman/Marion Barber/Ken Hamlin these guys are key components...and oh yea did I mention that we also retained our offensive coordinator Jason Garrett? What about the addition in the secondary with coach Dave Campo? All and all this team has no excuse not to execute this year...and they will be the cream of the crop in the NFC 12-4.

I hate the damn homer goggles. BF...feel free to come out and say you told me so....just a failure to execute this year. The players didn't play as a team...and losing romo for 4 games really hurt.

6) Pittsburgh who?
Thats what I think about when I watch TV nowadays...no one seems to be talking about the Steelers. And this is really a crying shame. If you look at the division who do they really have? The Bengals still have a porous defense the ravens are undergoing a new coaching staff change....with either Troy Smith or Kyle Boller as their starter? The Browns are up and coming...but that defense still isn't going to keep them in ballgames against the elite teams. Bottomline is the Steelers are good...and sure people are making a deal about losing some peices on the offensive line...but they added another RB to the mix...have a healthy Willie Parker...Holmes and Ben seem to have upped their game to another level and Ward is still Ward. I'm not expecting much of a change at all this year for the Steelers offense...I mean it's not like big ben didn't get knocked around last year....through the 2nd half of the season he trailed only Tom Brady in passer rating...so I expect a little more out of the Steelers offense this year. Has the Steelers defense changed in the last 10 years? If so I haven't noticed it....Hampton is going to be ready for the opener from what I've been reading...and Troy should be ready to go as well...I'm looking for big things out of Pittsburgh and they should have the division title at the end of the season. Looking for about 11 wins for them this year.

Finally looks like I got one right. Now I did think Pitts offense would be a little better than it has been...but losing your top 2 RB's and having your QB battle through injuries can do that to a team...not to mention weak playcalling for most of the season.

7) OROY
I'm going to have to go with a guy who I feel can step in from day one on a team where he should get a lot of time. Jonathan Stewart over in Carolina has been tearing it up in training camp and has been reported that he is playing like a man amongst boy's over there. Stewart I believe is going to see some special teams work as well which should only help his cause for ROY. Having Steve Smith suspended for the first two games shouldn't hurt his stats either...if he stays healthy he really should have a great shot of taking home the title. Looking for over 1000 total yards and atleast 10 TD's to get him to win this award.

Stewart didn't quite hit those numbers...and if DeAngelo wouldn't have had the season he had I think stewart would have gotten more press....he still did rush for over 800 yards and 10 TDs tho which is impressive for a rookie.


8) DROY
The first thought I wanted to give the nod to Aqib Talib...a kid I'm expecting huge things from as a rookie...but I'm not sold that there is going to be enough hype down in TB to give this kid the props he deserves so I'm going to go with Kenny Phillips. Phillips has been lights out in camps from reports...supposedly hitting everything in site....which is good and bad...but Phillips is in a good situation with a strong NY pass rush and should be in position to make a ton of plays for that defense this year. If he plays the way he can play I really don't see anyone taking it away from him. Look for him to get atleast 5 picks...and about 90 tackles.

Both players played good this year...but to tell you the truth I can't even think who won this award. Both guys should have future pro-bowl appearances...but neither did enough to win the away. Phillips just didn't have the TO to get this award.


9) MVP
Tony Romo. In order for dallas to get over the hump this year...it is going to take the very best of Tony Romo for 16 straight games this year. Tony Romo has only started 26 games so far in his career...and yet it is hard to find a more productive QB during those times. People say he doesn't play well in big games...but 2006 Colts game and 2007 Packers game ring a bell of when he played well in big games...where both teams were undefeated over halfway through the season. If Tony can put it together...he has all the weapons he needs this year to put together a MVP type season...factor in that this is his second year in Garretts offense...he doesn't have an excuse not to be in the running. He broke quite a few passing records in dallas last year...I look for him to improve on those numbers this year. To win the MVP he is going to have to be right around that 65% completion percentage with about 4400 yards with a td:int ration of 2:1. If he does this...should give him a qb rating of just over 100 and put him in a legit spot to win the MVP award.

Injury killed his chances...who knows what happens if the finger doesn't get broke. As far as numbers went he threw for 3400 and 7:13 int to td ratio...but like i said these numbers mean nothing with the injury.

10) Superbowl Champions?
I'm going to have to go with the Indianapolis Colts this year over the Saints. The Colts are just about the same team as last year...with Sanders returning..and Addai and Gonzalez getting another year under their belt...I look for Peyton to add to his status as a top QB of all time. The Saints just won't have the secondary to stop Indy's passing attack. Final Score 35-24
I love me some colts still...but injuries just kept them from dominating like they could have. As far as the saints go....they just never seem to play defense for some reason...Brees had a nice season tho.


for boe
Off the Wall shots
1) Giants won't make the playoffs...and their losses that weren't addressed as well as other teams in the division
Meant the cowboys :P
2) Laurence Maroney will have over 1500 yards in rushing..which is about 670 more yards than last year
Injuries owch
3) Chester Taylor will have ypc than Adrian Peterson
AD had .8 more...but Taylor had more yards per touch...with 8.9 per reception...AD had only 6 yards per
4) Troy Smith won't start opening week but will by midway through the season
joe flacco whooooooooo
5) Both Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton will start a game as the Bears QB
Got one right
6) Felix Jones will better and MORE productive than Darren McFadden (sorry for the number10 reference) will have more yards from scrimmage.
Injuries again...but Felix Jones did set a nfl record...highest YPC for a running back with 30 carries or more. He did have double the YPC...but arguement is moot with the injury.


Overall not very good...I hit on 2 and was close on maybe two :S

locseti
01-16-2009, 01:35 AM
more like your ten NFL lies!!!!!!!!

thule
01-16-2009, 01:48 AM
your telling me...even questions I got right I don't think that is what was meant....I was way better last year.

Gay Ork Wang
01-16-2009, 02:04 AM
Grossman and Orton starting, i dont think what happened is what you meant :D

thule
01-16-2009, 02:12 AM
Grossman and Orton starting, i dont think what happened is what you meant :D

Nop...I didn't plan on orton getting hurt...but it's kinda like horseshoes and hand grenades....close counts.

Bigburt63
01-16-2009, 08:44 AM
mayo won DROY btw

bored of education
01-16-2009, 09:24 AM
thule its ok that your truths were actually epic fails..but i still respect you going out on a limb with many of those. if i had my truths thread posted i would have offed myself. Croyles MVP :/

Shiver
01-16-2009, 05:47 PM
Well.. at least you tried.

CC.SD
01-16-2009, 05:58 PM
Well.. at least you tried.

And trying is half the battle.

Geo
01-16-2009, 06:07 PM
Your Super Bowl winner prediction came a year early, thule. ;)

CC.SD
01-16-2009, 06:23 PM
Your Super Bowl winner prediction came a year early, thule. ;)

Haha, I see what you did there Geo. ;)

thule
01-16-2009, 08:57 PM
Well.. at least you tried.

how'd yours turn out?