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bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 10:40 AM
BBD passed the torch to me, so I'm going to do my thing. Didn't read any of the other truths. Not saying I'm going to be right either. Just doing my thing.

1. The Bills and Texans are teams on the rise. I usually mock Buffalo's long, long run of bad luck, but I just have a hunch about them this year. I think they are an underrated team on both sides of the ball. They have a workhorse back in Marshawn Lynch, an up and comer in Trent Edwards, and I loved the selection of Hardy as a possession-type WR opposite the speedy Evans. I think the Bills will sneak up on people early, then they have a great home field advantage, especially in November/December. They won't unseat the Patriots, but I think they will beat the Pats once this year and will finish second in their division. I foresee a 10-6 record and a playoff berth.

The Texans play in a sickeningly good division, but they have a full year under Kubiak and his zone-blocking scheme. I think that Steve Slaton will be a decent weapon, and Andre Johnson is god-like when healthy. Keep Matt Schaub upright, and he should be awesome. Owen Daniels is underrated stretching the seams of the D. I think the Texans defense led by Demeco Ryans and Mario Williams will really make strides this year. I don't see them making the playoffs, but I think they will be very, very strong.

2. The Cowboys will finish in the bottom half of the East and will be on the playoff bubble. Everything seemed to break right for the Cowboys last season, and their offense was prolific, allowing their D to really tee off on some teams. Everyone in the league will be ready to play the Cowboys this year, and they are no longer a novelty act. They are the hunted. I think DeMarcus Ware is one of the best in the league, but the safety combo of Roy and Ken Hamlin remains a weak spot, despite excellent depth at CB between an already dinged TNew, an underrated Henry, and a rusty-but-talented Pacman. I see more injuries biting the Cowboys, perhaps on the OLine, which will affect them significantly. On top of it, I see a lot of strong personalities in that locker room, and I see a coach in Wade Phillips who is a lame duck. Jason Garrett is the future of the Cowboys, and the players know it. Anyone can have a happy locker room when the team goes 13-3. I find it hard to believe that this team will knuckle down and kick arse if they start 1-3. I don't think TO will be the problem. I just don't see them as a team that will come together under Phillips. Cowboys go 9-7 due to injuries and a ridiculous division schedule and miss the playoffs because the terrible teams in the West and South have to be represented. I think the Cowboys are poised for a ridiculous run come 2009. They just have to suffer through some pain in 2008.

3. The Packers and Jets will both finish at .500. The Jets have the easiest schedule in the league and a QB who can throw the ball further than 8 yards. They also have a bunch of new players and a very weak CB crew. They also play in a division with a rising Bills team, a Dolphins team that can't be that bad, and the juggernaut Pats. I think their D pressures the QB, and Favre steals 2 games for them. 8-8 in the AFC East after a 4-12 2008 is a huge success. Green Bay is another team that overachieved last season and won some games that they probably should have lost. I don't see Aaron Rodgers having a bad year, but he's not Brett Favre. Their D should take a step back from excellent to merely very very good, and they are likely due for some more injuries (law of averages). They have a tougher schedule this year, and no one will overlook them. 8-8 seems much more likely than 12-4...

4. Major players on the move next offseason: I see a lot of movement this next offseason, whether it's via trade, retirement, or release: Clinton Portis, Donovan McNabb, Anquan Boldin, Willie Parker, Kareem McKenzie, Amani Toomer, Brian Dawkins, Derrick Anderson, Todd Heap, DeAngelo Williams, Julius Peppers, Jake Delholme, Jeff Garcia, Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Larry Johnson, John Runyan, Derrick Brooks, Charles Woodson, Kyle Boller, Jeremy Shockey, Flozell Adams, Randy Thomas, Roy Williams (both of em), and Matt Light. I think all of these players will be with new teams this time next year.

5. Offseason Awards:

Coach of the Year: I think it is a race between Brad Childress, Dick Jauron, and Gary Kubiak. Winner: Kubiak
MVP: Brian Westbrook means everything to the Eagles offense. I think he justifies his contract and posts 2300 yards from scrimmage with 19 TD's. If the Eagles do what I hope they can do, that means he is a strong contender.
Offensive MVP: Matt Schaub, Texans. I think everything breaks right for the Texans this year. They will still have to throw because their D is still coming together. Andre Johnson should be healthy, and I like their peripheral weapons. Of course, the lack of a great RB is also helpful...
Defensive MVP: Lofa Tatupu. I think he is everything to that defense, and I see a tremendous year for him. He is underrated to me, if that's possible...
OROY: Matt Forte, Bears. The offensive ROY is usually the RB that his the best OLine + the most chances. I could be wrong here, but I just have a hunch.
DROY: Keith Rivers, Bengals. I think he is that good, and I think he will be that good from Day 1. He will amass monster amounts of tackles and sacks because he has to.6. The Rams will win the NFC West. I don't love the Seahawks on offense this year. Their RB's are just as bad as they were in 2007 with Alexander, and I think they will miss DJ Hackett more than you think. Holmgren is also a lame duck coach, and I just don't see this D carrying the team enough. We know that SF is horrendous, and Arizona's secondary remains in shambles, and there is no clarity with their QB situation. I think the Rams are much improved, I love the hiring of Al Saunders. I think not being in camp will preserve the shelf life of SJax, and I think he will finish strong. Throw in an easy schedule, the emergence of Adam Carriker, and the Bulger-Holt connection, and I think they win the West with a 9-7 record.

7. Fantasy Values/Studs: Matt Schaub, Mark Bulger, Matt Forte, Dwayne Bowe, Sidney Rice, Marshawn Lynch, Deuce McCallister (second half pickup), LJ Smith, Robert Meacham, Anthony Gonzalez, Steven Jackson, Brandon Jacobs, Donovan McNabb, Donald Driver, Thomas Jones, Calvin Johnson, Josh Cribbs, and Rudi Johnson.

8. Fantasy Overdrafts/Duds: Marvin Harrison, Antonio Gates, Larry Johnson, Randy Moss (I think his TD's fall to under 10), Cadillac Williams, the Carolina Panthers, Seattle RB's/WR's, Todd Heap, Felix Jones, John Kitna, Donte Stallworth, Carson Palmer, Tony Romo (will be very good, not amazing), and David Garrard.

9. Coaching changes galore next offseason. Lane Kiffin will get fired pretty much no matter what. John Fox's team is already in shambles, and they need a new voice. Jim Zorn could be canned for no reason at all unless the Redskins win the NFC East. SF needs to clean house very badly. Lovie Smith is on the hot seat in Chicago. I think Marvin Lewis will get fired in Cinci (1 year too late). Between that and Mike Holmgren retiring, Wade Phillips being forced out for Garrett, and my prediction that Dungy will ride into the sunset with another title (see #10), we're looking at potentially 10 coaching changes going into 2009. Over/under is set at 6.5 changes total. I think I have to take the over...

10. Super Bowl Prediction: Colts over NFC East representative. I think the Colts are poised to really make a run here. Yes, they choked in 2007, but this is Dungy's last stand, and he'll leave as a champion. The Colts are being overlooked, which is a mistake for sure. I think they have an offense that can put up points, and their defense is underrated. The NFC East is the deepest and strongest division in football. The Giants remain underrated even after they , the Cowboys are just as talented as they were in 2007, the Eagles are flying under the radar, and the Redskins have a new coach and a great attitude. The teams in the East are the best 4 teams in the conference in terms of both coaching and talent. Whoever closes strongest in December will be the best team in the conference and will be battle tested. Still, the Colts will prove to be too high powered an offense, even outdoors on grass. Manning and Dungy will win their second title together in February 2009.

scottyboy
08-13-2008, 10:45 AM
the scary thing is, I agree with virtually everything you said. Bravo, excellent job.

for number 4: I do see Amani retiring, but not sure with McKenzie. I think he stays, no need to mess up our OL and their chemistry. Granted we've got starting calibur backup RT Olivea, but our OL was great this year. not really seeing him leaving unless he wants to go out at age 33 after backtoback super bowls! ;)

LonghornsLegend
08-13-2008, 11:10 AM
Props on going out on a limb, but the Cowboys are making the playoffs, I'd be willing to make a wager with you...Can't say you didn't go all out though, although I don't know how you are going to predict injuries to certain players ahead of time...We probably had a tougher schedule last year just for the record, and if thats the case who wins the NFC east?


Giants lost more personnel then the Cowboys, Washington had more changes in the coaching staff then Dallas, and Philly needs to worry more about injuries then any other team.

Smooth Criminal
08-13-2008, 11:12 AM
Steelers will not let Willie leave. Hes under contract for a few more years and they arn't going to break up the combo of him and Mendenhall.

bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 11:14 AM
I think the key for Dallas is starting quickly. If they start off 1-3, they could easily end up folding. I just don't see the team rallying under Wade Phillips. That is a big key. I'm not a believer in that team having unity.

Your points about the Giants' holes is somewhat overblown. What did they really lose? Strahan's presence was huge, but they still have a potent pass rush. Their secondary may have improved with Phillips. I live in DC, and I hear what the players are saying under Zorn and the new staff. They are happy and unified. It is disheartening... The Eagles have some injury issues, but they are under the radar. Even so, Dallas and Philly tend to split their season matchup anyway...

bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 11:15 AM
Steelers will not let Willie leave. Hes under contract for a few more years and they arn't going to break up the combo of him and Mendenhall.

I happen to share the opinion that Willie is cooked after 3 years of heavy use. I could be wrong, but I think he will be deemed overpaid. I can easily see the Steelers trading him predraft and picking up someone cheap to complement Mendenhall.

eaglesalltheway
08-13-2008, 11:17 AM
Very nice job bsaza, I could nitpick, but I won't and I'll just say most of that seems pretty solid to me. (I do think the Cowboys get 10 or 11 wins though)

bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 11:18 AM
Feel free to nitpick. That's what the forum is all about.

LonghornsLegend
08-13-2008, 11:19 AM
I think the key for Dallas is starting quickly. If they start off 1-3, they could easily end up folding. I just don't see the team rallying under Wade Phillips. That is a big key. I'm not a believer in that team having unity.

Your points about the Giants' holes is somewhat overblown. What did they really lose? Strahan's presence was huge, but they still have a potent pass rush. Their secondary may have improved with Phillips. I live in DC, and I hear what the players are saying under Zorn and the new staff. They are happy and unified. It is disheartening... The Eagles have some injury issues, but they are under the radar. Even so, Dallas and Philly tend to split their season matchup anyway...


My points about the Giants holes are not overblown, I just pointed out they lost some key contributors from their super bowl run, neither of us know how important they will be, but I do know that the only people Dallas lost were people who sucked(Reeves, Ayodele, JJ) and improved through FA and the draft(Zach Thomas who your underrating what type of role he will have, Jenkins, Felix Jones) so I don't understand how we are going to just fold and collapse and not gel, like were some new team...The nucleus of this team stayed together, nobody left, so it seems like your reaching with the unity and Wade Phillips stuff but w/e, to each his own.

princefielder28
08-13-2008, 11:23 AM
#3 : I think the Jets finish above .500 given the addition of Favre and their weak schedule. Their CBs are a bit questionable, but if they can manage to put pressure on the opposing QB then that'll solve some of the problems back there. I believe it is a real possibility the Packers finish .500 or below; they have an unproven QB, tough ass schedule, and if they suffer an injury or two to their defense then it could be a long year.

#6 : The Rams are talented offensively, but Jackson has to be there to make it happen. There's talk of him not playing until the last 8 games and if that's the case then the Rams have little to no chance of going to the playoffs. If Jackson does play all 16 games then it is definitely possible.

bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 11:26 AM
My points about the Giants holes are not overblown, I just pointed out they lost some key contributors from their super bowl run, neither of us know how important they will be, but I do know that the only people Dallas lost were people who sucked(Reeves, Ayodele, JJ) and improved through FA and the draft(Zach Thomas who your underrating what type of role he will have, Jenkins, Felix Jones) so I don't understand how we are going to just fold and collapse and not gel, like were some new team...The nucleus of this team stayed together, nobody left, so it seems like your reaching with the unity and Wade Phillips stuff but w/e, to each his own.

My point is that your coach has a long history of losing his team when his team is losing games. Couple that history with the fact that Garrett is the coach in the very near future, and that tips the scales. On top of it all, I'm not sure that the team's core and additions are really ready to gel. You find out what a team is about in times of adversity. The only adversity this team faced last year was in the playoffs, and they lost to the Giants. We'll see what kind of team you have if they start 1-3 or 2-4. Can they rally? I'm not sure they can. I think the locker room chemistry is much more tenuous than you think.

I'm not really worried about the offense beyond Romo cutting down his turnovers and the lack of a true #2/#3 WR threat. The major chink is the age of the OLine, so we could see slippage there. On defense, I'm very worried about Dallas's weakness in the middle. I'm not sure that the DLine can keep guys like Thomas clean. They should have fine outside D, but up the middle, I think they're exploitable.


If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. As you said, I went way out there...

bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 11:27 AM
#3 : I think the Jets finish above .500 given the addition of Favre and their weak schedule. Their CBs are a bit questionable, but if they can manage to put pressure on the opposing QB then that'll solve some of the problems back there. I believe it is a real possibility the Packers finish .500 or below; they have an unproven QB, tough ass schedule, and if they suffer an injury or two to their defense then it could be a long year.

#6 : The Rams are talented offensively, but Jackson has to be there to make it happen. There's talk of him not playing until the last 8 games and if that's the case then the Rams have little to no chance of going to the playoffs. If Jackson does play all 16 games then it is definitely possible.

I think that Favre will struggle a bit with the new offense and meshing with Cotchery, Coles, and the TE's. He will recover with the help of the weaker schedule, but I'm not sold on the team winning more than 8. That is my conclusion, and we can disagree.

The Rams point is a risk, but I think Jackson will play because he won't get paid otherwise.

Crickett
08-13-2008, 11:42 AM
Feel free to nitpick. That's what the forum is all about.

Don't mind if I do.

1. The Bills and Texans are teams on the rise. I usually mock Buffalo's long, long run of bad luck, but I just have a hunch about them this year. I think they are an underrated team on both sides of the ball. They have a workhorse back in Marshawn Lynch, an up and comer in Trent Edwards, and I loved the selection of Hardy as a possession-type WR opposite the speedy Evans. I think the Bills will sneak up on people early, then they have a great home field advantage, especially in November/December. They won't unseat the Patriots, but I think they will beat the Pats once this year and will finish second in their division. I foresee a 10-6 record and a playoff berth.

The Texans play in a sickeningly good division, but they have a full year under Kubiak and his zone-blocking scheme. I think that Steve Slaton will be a decent weapon, and Andre Johnson is god-like when healthy. Keep Matt Schaub upright, and he should be awesome. Owen Daniels is underrated stretching the seams of the D. I think the Texans defense led by Demeco Ryans and Mario Williams will really make strides this year. I don't see them making the playoffs, but I think they will be very, very strong.

<snip>


3. The Packers and Jets will both finish at .500. The Jets have the easiest schedule in the league and a QB who can throw the ball further than 8 yards. They also have a bunch of new players and a very weak CB crew. They also play in a division with a rising Bills team, a Dolphins team that can't be that bad, and the juggernaut Pats. I think their D pressures the QB, and Favre steals 2 games for them. 8-8 in the AFC East after a 4-12 2008 is a huge success. Green Bay is another team that overachieved last season and won some games that they probably should have lost. I don't see Aaron Rodgers having a bad year, but he's not Brett Favre. Their D should take a step back from excellent to merely very very good, and they are likely due for some more injuries (law of averages). They have a tougher schedule this year, and no one will overlook them. 8-8 seems much more likely than 12-4...

Soooo the Bills who added

Leodis McKelvin
James Hardy
Marcus Stroud
Kawika Mitchell
Dustin Fox
Courtney Anderson

And the Jets added

Vernon Gholston
Dustin Keller
Brett Favre
Kris Jenkins
Calvin Pace
Alan Faneca
Damien Woody
Tony Richardson
Bubba Franks

And the Bills are going to be better? I'll take the latter group over the former any day.

As for the Packers, let assume for a minute that Aaron Rodgers does well. Not pro bowl well, but well. Where are the Packers weak talent wise? Anywhere? I doubt a team as young and talented as the Packers are with playoff experience go .500 this year. People seem to have forgotten why everyone thought the Packers were going to draft a cornerback early. Not so much because they were weak at cornerback, but because it was one of the few places where they're not very young. IMO, people are severely underrating both Rodgers and the Packers.


2. The Cowboys will finish in the bottom half of the East and will be on the playoff bubble. Everything seemed to break right for the Cowboys last season, and their offense was prolific, allowing their D to really tee off on some teams. Everyone in the league will be ready to play the Cowboys this year, and they are no longer a novelty act. They are the hunted. I think DeMarcus Ware is one of the best in the league, but the safety combo of Roy and Ken Hamlin remains a weak spot, despite excellent depth at CB between an already dinged TNew, an underrated Henry, and a rusty-but-talented Pacman. I see more injuries biting the Cowboys, perhaps on the OLine, which will affect them significantly. On top of it, I see a lot of strong personalities in that locker room, and I see a coach in Wade Phillips who is a lame duck. Jason Garrett is the future of the Cowboys, and the players know it. Anyone can have a happy locker room when the team goes 13-3. I find it hard to believe that this team will knuckle down and kick arse if they start 1-3. I don't think TO will be the problem. I just don't see them as a team that will come together under Phillips. Cowboys go 9-7 due to injuries and a ridiculous division schedule and miss the playoffs because the terrible teams in the West and South have to be represented. I think the Cowboys are poised for a ridiculous run come 2009. They just have to suffer through some pain in 2008.

The Cowboys will go 9-7 because of injuries is a truth? They went 13-3 last year with Phillips, and Garrett and everybody else. The only people they lost were

Terry Glenn (didn't play much last year)
Jason Ferguson (didn't play much last year)
Anthony Fasano (backup, replaced by Martellus Bennett)
Akin Ayodele (replaced by Zach Thomas)
Julius Jones (replaced by Felix Jones)

Glenn and Ferguson barely played last year and it could very easily argued that two out of the other three were upgraded by who they were replaced by.

bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 11:55 AM
Crickett, point by point:

The Bills had a better defense and running game to begin with. Their QB has been in their system for 2 years, as opposed to 2 weeks. The Jets added plenty of veterans, but who really counts as an impact signing outside of Favre and Faneca? Will Favre be able to be Favre? Jenkins hasn't played at a pro bowl level in years, Franks is more of a blocker and will lose PT to Keller, Gholston may or may not be a pass rush answer, Pace has had 1 decent year. Favre is a big key, but I believe in the Bills to win more games. I am confident in that prediction.

Packers: Finishing at 8-8 isn't that big a deal given that they are a young team, are downgrading from Favre to Rodgers, had almost no injuries last year, and have a first place schedule and a target on their backs. The Favre saga was a distraction in camp and could continue. 8-8 isn't underrating anyone. It's .500. I'm not expecting them to fall off. Just what I think.

Cowboys: I mentioned injuries as a possibility, but that isn't the crux of my argument. I was more about the weakness at safety, my perception that they lack team unity, the fact that Phillips is a lame duck coach, plus the crush of expectations and the fact that they won't sneak up on anyone. The Phillips situation is significant. He didn't have Garrett as the coach in waiting last year. He almost lost his job after the playoffs and a 13-3 season. That is a big deal. Phillips has a long history of losing teams, and I don't get the feeling that his players will kill themselves for him. Injuries are a possibility with any aging player, and the Cowboys OLine is older than it is younger. I think the Boys lack a little OLine depth, which is why I think an injury there will be a big deal.

thule
08-13-2008, 11:56 AM
Flozell Adams with a new team? Dallas just resigned him this offseason.

I won't touch on your dallas stuff...you've backed your thoughts.

I still don't think the Texans have the back to make them a true TOUGH competitor...so I'm going to say you went a little to far on them...I think they'll be about the same as they have been the past couple of years...middle of the road team that can upset a good team if healthy and playing well.

Funny that we agree on the bills..I also proclaimed an outside shot at the playoffs in my truths yesterday...a eagles and cowboys fan agreeing :P

Other than that not a lot that I have to debate.

bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 12:01 PM
I forgot about Flozell's new deal. My impression is that he is on the decline physically, though he is so smart, he still gets the job done. You are right. With his contract, he can't be cut after this season (or probably next).

Every year, we see teams jump. I thought the Texans would jump last year, but they did show a lot of heart. When Sage Rosenfels + Ron Dayne can have big weeks, you have to think that starting caliber players can do even better. I think that the Texans D will be much better this year as well. It is unfortunate that they play in the AFC South....

Crickett
08-13-2008, 12:07 PM
Crickett, point by point:

The Bills had a better defense and running game to begin with. Their QB has been in their system for 2 years, as opposed to 2 weeks. The Jets added plenty of veterans, but who really counts as an impact signing outside of Favre and Faneca? Will Favre be able to be Favre? Jenkins hasn't played at a pro bowl level in years, Franks is more of a blocker and will lose PT to Keller, Gholston may or may not be a pass rush answer, Pace has had 1 decent year. Favre is a big key, but I believe in the Bills to win more games. I am confident in that prediction.

Packers: Finishing at 8-8 isn't that big a deal given that they are a young team, are downgrading from Favre to Rodgers, had almost no injuries last year, and have a first place schedule and a target on their backs. The Favre saga was a distraction in camp and could continue. 8-8 isn't underrating anyone. It's .500. I'm not expecting them to fall off. Just what I think.

Cowboys: I mentioned injuries as a possibility, but that isn't the crux of my argument. I was more about the weakness at safety, my perception that they lack team unity, the fact that Phillips is a lame duck coach, plus the crush of expectations and the fact that they won't sneak up on anyone. The Phillips situation is significant. He didn't have Garrett as the coach in waiting last year. He almost lost his job after the playoffs and a 13-3 season. That is a big deal. Phillips has a long history of losing teams, and I don't get the feeling that his players will kill themselves for him. Injuries are a possibility with any aging player, and the Cowboys OLine is older than it is younger. I think the Boys lack a little OLine depth, which is why I think an injury there will be a big deal.


Point by point,

I don't think people realize just how big of an upgrade Faneca, Woody and Jenkins are. LG, RT and NT were probably the three weakest positions on the Jets team last year. Much as I liked to defend him, DeWayne Robertson was as much of a 3-4 NT as Roy Williams is a cornerback. Kellen Clemens wasn't very impressive last week, but he did have one thing I've never seen him have before. He had time to throw. Oh, and the Bills QB's are Trent Edwards and J.P. Losman.

Packers: For a team with a 13-3 record and one game away from the superbowl, going 8-8 is falling off.

Cowboys: Claiming the Cowboys have a weakness at safety isn't quite accurate as Ken Hamlin was a pro bowler and unlike some other Cowboy safeties, deserved to go. They have a weakness at Roy Williams, but thats no different than last year either. And no, they didn't sneak up on anyone. They were the best team in the NFC during the regular season. Now, you could say they choke in the playoffs, but to say they may not even get there?

Dam8610
08-13-2008, 12:11 PM
Why is everyone here picking the Colts to win it all?

vidae
08-13-2008, 12:13 PM
I see no reason that the Chiefs trade/get rid of LJ. He just signed a big contract last season. Why trade him now?

bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 12:19 PM
Point by point again, Crickett:

I think Faneca is a big upgrade, but mostly in the running game. The Jets will be better offensively, but that doesn't guarantee that Favre will mesh with his weapons right away. There is a lot of chemistry that needs to be built. Kris Jenkins is no guarantee to be better, more productive, or on the field more than Robertson. He is a potential upgrade, but nothing more. Woody was so bad for Detroit that he got cut. Not that big a deal to me.

The Bills have a strong team mentality, a bulldog of a D, a potentially stronger running game, and I like Edwards quite a bit. I think Lee Evans is the most explosive receiver between the 2 teams, and I think that Hardy is the best red zone option between the 2. I think I'm right, but I'm not going to debate opinion much more with you.

The Packers overperformed their skill level against a weakish schedule in 2007 with Brett Favre. Aaron Rodgers has never started a game before, and he will have growing pains. The team is good and young, but I'm not sure they have the same degree of unity that they had in 2007. Favre's exit remains an issue. Possibly a veterans vs. young guys thing. I think this team loses a few more close games than it won in 2007. 8-8 might be a little low, but I already put it out there, and I'm not backing off.

Pro Bowl voting means nothing to me. Roy Williams was also elected to the Pro Bowl. You think that Hamlin and Roy getting so many votes had something to do with homer fan votes, homer press votes, and players and coaches who didn't pay enough attention? Hamlin is decent, but he's not a pro bowl performer to me. He certainly isn't as good as Laron Landry can be, nor would I take him over a healthy Dawkins.

Bottom line is that I'm out there doing my thing and showing balls. If I just said Dallas would choke again, you would call me a hack and a poser who is copying. I am going out on a limb to predict things that takes guts to write and back up. If you come with legitimate logic and facts that I have overlooked (i.e. the Flozell thing), I'll acquiesce. Otherwise, I won't.

bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 12:20 PM
I see no reason that the Chiefs trade/get rid of LJ. He just signed a big contract last season. Why trade him now?

He will force the situation because he is a bad teammate and a less coachable player than others. He thinks he is all that, but he won't be able to do anything as the Chiefs rebuild. I don't think he has the patience or the cooperation to stick with it. I also think that he could be cooked. I love LJ as a player (PSU fan), but he is a baby and a primadonna.

d34ng3l021
08-13-2008, 12:26 PM
This is good stuff. I kind of feel like making my own.

bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 12:27 PM
Go for it.

eaglesalltheway
08-13-2008, 12:33 PM
This is good stuff. I kind of feel like making my own.

Do it.

Do it.





DO IT!!!

gonzo1105
08-13-2008, 12:34 PM
Point by point,

I don't think people realize just how big of an upgrade Faneca, Woody and Jenkins are. LG, RT and NT were probably the three weakest positions on the Jets team last year. Much as I liked to defend him, DeWayne Robertson was as much of a 3-4 NT as Roy Williams is a cornerback. Kellen Clemens wasn't very impressive last week, but he did have one thing I've never seen him have before. He had time to throw. Oh, and the Bills QB's are Trent Edwards and J.P. Losman.

Packers: For a team with a 13-3 record and one game away from the superbowl, going 8-8 is falling off.

Cowboys: Claiming the Cowboys have a weakness at safety isn't quite accurate as Ken Hamlin was a pro bowler and unlike some other Cowboy safeties, deserved to go. They have a weakness at Roy Williams, but thats no different than last year either. And no, they didn't sneak up on anyone. They were the best team in the NFC during the regular season. Now, you could say they choke in the playoffs, but to say they may not even get there?

Well lets go point by point on the Bills- Jets theory shall we..

Last year despite having many people on the IR who were supposed to be starters the Bills defeated the Jets with both of their crappy QB's in Trent Edwards and J.P Losman in a sweep of the Jets.

Brett Favre has a losing record against the Bills in his career including being 0-3 vs the Bills in Ralph Wilson Stadium with what arguably would be called much better Packers teams than the Jets will be this year....2-3 all time against the Bills

The Bills also upgraded their run defense severely by adding Marcus Stroud over any number of the Bills DT's last year, they added Mitchell who is an upgrade of undersized Keith Ellison, Pos will start again and will be an upgrade over Digorgio. Aaron Schobel had 3.5 sacks last year after recording no less then 8.5 any other year...Do you expect Schobel to get 3.5 sacks again with an upgraded defense?

The Bills offense will be improved.....i'm not saying its gonna be fantastic but it wont get any worse than what it was last year in being ranked # 31 last year. Even if they get it up to 20th with their defense they will see a significant improvement in their Win Loss total....

I'm not saying the Jets haven't improved, I actually hate the fact that the Jets got Brett Favre but their are questions....i saw him interview today talkin about how his expectations are low and basically telling teams what scat means in their system...i'm sure eric mangini loved that. What kind of mindset is that for a QB of a team... I haven't learned the players names lol I was laughing at it the whole interview ...im not trying to nitpick but if i'm a coach i'm goin what the hell are u doing.....The acquisitions that they got some were good and some are questionable.....Faneca will obviously be an upgrade so will Favre over Pennington, Dustin Keller is a rookie and you dont know what he is going to bring...he could be a stud or he could be a flop is he goin to be Anthony Becht or is he going to be Kellen Winslow you just dont know yet so he imo is a N/A. Kris Jenkins once upon a time was a dominant DT but injuries have taken a toll on him and once again you dont know what your going to get out of him...is he going to be a shell of his former self after injuries or will he return to dominance that is always a N/A. Damien Woody again was once a dominant guard but once he went to Detroit he kind of fell on his face and was also hurt for a portion of his time there .....can he return to form or will he be just another waste of money?

If Calvin Pace has a season like last year he will be an upgrade at LB but was he just playing for a new contract or has he finally busted out we'll find out again this season...

I'm not saying the Bills are a ton better but they got valuable depth by having a lot of their backups this year starting last year which will only help...heres the list....John Digorgio, George Wilson, Jabari Greer, John McCargo, Roscoe Parrish, and Trent Edwards...i'm sure i'm leaving a few out but that depth will help...i'm not going to include any of the bills rookies because i will sound like a hypocrite...they are N/A as well....I think the Bills went from sweeping the Jets to splitting with them.....and I agree with the original poster a good Jets season would be 9-7 with 8-8 being likely....

As for the soft schedule argument those are based off of last year...You never know who is gonna be good or stink in the NFL on a given year

bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 01:18 PM
Thank you for so eloquently and appropriately breaking out what I have been saying all along...

MetSox17
08-13-2008, 01:25 PM
Okay, without trying to go berserk over some of your comments Bsaza, there's no way on god's green earth that the Cowboys win ONLY 9 games, so long as Romo and T.O are healthy all year. Those are the only two spots that i can honestly say we would be screwed should one of them go down.

With that said, you better watch some Cowboys games before you say Hamlin is overrated and/or undeserving of his Pro-Bowl status. The ONLY hole on our defense, would be SS, and the coaching staff is doing everything in their power to avoid getting exposed.

ALD
08-13-2008, 01:26 PM
While I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Dallas crumble under Phillips, especially with Garrett there, I think they're built to beat up bad teams and too talented not to make the playoffs, I'm expecting them to win the division again, with the Eagles and Gmen grabbing the wild cards. But come playoff time I really think Phillips is going to be stuck in "hope my boys don't actually need a coach" mode.

ALD
08-13-2008, 01:28 PM
Okay, without trying to go berserk over some of your comments Bsaza, there's no way on god's green earth that the Cowboys win ONLY 9 games, so long as Romo and T.O are healthy all year. Those are the only two spots that i can honestly say we would be screwed should one of them go down.

With that said, you better watch some Cowboys games before you say Hamlin is overrated and/or undeserving of his Pro-Bowl status. The ONLY hole on our defense, would be SS, and the coaching staff is doing everything in their power to avoid getting exposed.

If Wade Phillips were my HC I'd be very concerned. He's basically Jim Fassel if Fassel had started of as a DC. I nice guy, who players like to play for, but not a good coach who'll be able to rally the troops when the ish hits the fan.

MetSox17
08-13-2008, 01:28 PM
While I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Dallas crumble under Phillips, especially with Garrett there, I think they're built to beat up bad teams and too talented not to make the playoffs, I'm expecting them to win the division again, with the Eagles and Gmen grabbing the wild cards. But come playoff time I really think Phillips is going to be stuck in "hope my boys don't actually need a coach" mode.

Beat up bad teams?

You mean the Giants?

Crickett
08-13-2008, 01:38 PM
I'll continue this point by point.

If it even crosses you're mind that Jenkins isn't an upgrade over Robertson or than Faneca isn't a huge upgrade over Clarke in both the running and passing game, then I can only assume that you never actually saw the Jets play last year. I'd argue that Clarke was the worst starting offensive lineman regardless of position in the entire NFL last year. And I'm going to rewrite in large bold letters.

ADRIAN CLARKE WAS THE WORST STARTING OFFENSIVE LINEMAN IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE.

And while Robertson might find success in the 4-3 as an undertackle, he was one of the biggest reasons the Jets defense was as bad as it was. You can argue that Jenkins isn't a pro bowl calibur player anymore, but anyone that argues that he outright sucks at this point in his career like Robertson did last year is either a fan of a rival AFC East or just plain foolish.


As for the Packers, how exactly did they overperform? A game away from the Superbowl, not really weak at any position on the team in 2007. And Rodgers, it always goes back to he's going to struggle. Even though to this point in the time that he's actually played, he hasn't. Nobody seems to even consider the possibility that he's going to do well.

As for the pro bowl, Ken Hamlin deserved to go, Roy Williams did not. I made my opinion on that fairly clear, despite what Laron Landry "could be".


Bottom line is that I'm out there doing my thing and showing balls. If I just said Dallas would choke again, you would call me a hack and a poser who is copying. I am going out on a limb to predict things that takes guts to write and back up. If you come with legitimate logic and facts that I have overlooked (i.e. the Flozell thing), I'll acquiesce. Otherwise, I won't.

And I have the right to nitpick, you even said so. :)

ALD
08-13-2008, 01:40 PM
Beat up bad teams?

You mean the Giants?

You saw our defense the first game, we were atrocious. And the second time around when the defense wasn't horrendously bad Eli dropped a bomb.

MetSox17
08-13-2008, 01:45 PM
You saw our defense the first game, we were atrocious. And the second time around when the defense wasn't horrendously bad Eli dropped a bomb.

Okay, so you got lit up for 45 the first time, then 31 the next. Is that that big of an improvement? You really don't have much talent to work with in the secondary outside of Ross and Phillips, both who are still young and raw.

ALD
08-13-2008, 01:49 PM
Okay, so you got lit up for 45 the first time, then 31 the next. Is that that big of an improvement? You really don't have much talent to work with in the secondary outside of Ross and Phillips, both who are still young and raw.

Webster really played well once he came into the fold again and Madison would be much better working against teams #3s than team's #1s. Plus Spags improved a lot as a co-ordinator as the season went on and he got to expirement and tinker. Plus we've got Thomas, who's looking like a Ross clone, and Dockery for added depth. I'm actually very comfortable with our secondary so long as Michael Johnson wins the other safety spot from James Butler.

And yes our defense really did improve, still not enough to stop you guys the second time around, but spags clearly found somethings that worked which is why we were able to stop you guys and turn Romo into a headless chicken the third time around.

MetSox17
08-13-2008, 02:07 PM
Webster really played well once he came into the fold again and Madison would be much better working against teams #3s than team's #1s. Plus Spags improved a lot as a co-ordinator as the season went on and he got to expirement and tinker. Plus we've got Thomas, who's looking like a Ross clone, and Dockery for added depth. I'm actually very comfortable with our secondary so long as Michael Johnson wins the other safety spot from James Butler.

And yes our defense really did improve, still not enough to stop you guys the second time around, but spags clearly found somethings that worked which is why we were able to stop you guys and turn Romo into a headless chicken the third time around.

Well you're not the only one with a coaching staff there. Everyone is gonna be able to make adjustments this time around. And honestly, i wouldn't put all my eggs in the NYG Secondary basket, cause i honestly don't see it being all that great. Webster played pretty good down the stretch and in the playoffs, and if he can keep it up, then maybe it won't be as bad as i think, but i wouldn't bet on it.

ALD
08-13-2008, 02:09 PM
Well you're not the only one with a coaching staff there. Everyone is gonna be able to make adjustments this time around. And honestly, i wouldn't put all my eggs in the NYG Secondary basket, cause i honestly don't see it being all that great. Webster played pretty good down the stretch and in the playoffs, and if he can keep it up, then maybe it won't be as bad as i think, but i wouldn't bet on it.

I'm not expecting us to be competing with Oakland's secondary, but we'll still have a monster pass rush and with a monster pass rush our secondary is good enough to shut a lot of teams down.

bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 02:13 PM
For the record, I think the Cowboys are as talented as any team in the NFL. Probably the most physically gifted team in the NFC. However, a lot of it comes down to matchups, execution, and coaching. I think that the Cowboys don't have a lot in the coaching department, and I'm not certain that they have enough pass rush to cover for their secondary black hole of Roy Williams. It is my contention that if they start slow, they will crumble. If they go 4-0 again, they will be fine front runners. I don't see them coming back on anyone.

ALD
08-13-2008, 02:16 PM
For the record, I think the Cowboys are as talented as any team in the NFL. Probably the most physically gifted team in the NFC. However, a lot of it comes down to matchups, execution, and coaching. I think that the Cowboys don't have a lot in the coaching department, and I'm not certain that they have enough pass rush to cover for their secondary black hole of Roy Williams. It is my contention that if they start slow, they will crumble. If they go 4-0 again, they will be fine front runners. I don't see them coming back on anyone.

Yeah, I agree with you there, until I see a Wade Phillips lead team show any resiliency I'll doubt his ability to win the big games.

bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 02:24 PM
Let's not forget that they start off @ Cleveland, at home against Philly (who beat them at home last year), @ GB, and vs. the Redskins. A 1-3 start is not out of the question...

MetSox17
08-13-2008, 02:24 PM
For the record, I think the Cowboys are as talented as any team in the NFL. Probably the most physically gifted team in the NFC. However, a lot of it comes down to matchups, execution, and coaching. I think that the Cowboys don't have a lot in the coaching department, and I'm not certain that they have enough pass rush to cover for their secondary black hole of Roy Williams. It is my contention that if they start slow, they will crumble. If they go 4-0 again, they will be fine front runners. I don't see them coming back on anyone.

How exactly could you see the Cowboys starting off 1-3?

They're gonna be 8-0 before they actually play a team worth their time. And it's the team they destroyed twice last year.

ALD
08-13-2008, 02:30 PM
How exactly could you see the Cowboys starting off 1-3?

They're gonna be 8-0 before they actually play a team worth their time. And it's the team they destroyed twice last year.

I could see a 2-2 start, at philly and cleveland, but 1-3 is hugely unlikely, unless they really get some bad breaks which wasn't the case last year.

MetSox17
08-13-2008, 02:36 PM
I could see a 2-2 start, at philly and cleveland, but 1-3 is hugely unlikely, unless they really get some bad breaks which wasn't the case last year.

I'd be very disappointed with 3-1.

bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 02:39 PM
Is it possible that you overrate the Cowboys just a bit? It is possible that somewhere between my opinion and yours lies the truth. I just happen to think that this Cowboys team doesn't have the coaching and leadership to overcome an early setback.

Burns336
08-13-2008, 02:44 PM
I don't get why everyone thinks the Cowboys low injury rate has to do with some string of luck? We simply have the best training staff in the entire league.

Over the course of Jerry Jones tenure as cowboys owner, we have been the least injured team in the league -- and second place isn't even close.

I'll post statistics from Football Prospectus 2008 when I get home, they have an entire section devoted to ranking the training staff by keeping track of the number of injuries that happen to a team every year.

Off the top of my head, I know the Cowboys average about 3 injured players a year, which is 1st in the league by far. I also remember them saying that the 2nd place team (I believe it is the steelers??) was closer to the 10th ranked team in the league that it was to Dallas.

Again, I'm not sure, but I think the steelers had something like 9 players who were injured.

Not sure how an injury is measured off the top of my head either, but I'm guessing it only counts if it causes you to miss a game.

I'll get real numbers when I get home.

Either way, I expect us to make the superbowl this year. And No, this isn't a typical cowboy homer. You can ask any Cowboy fan on here and they will tell you that I am usually the most negative and pessimistic poster about our team on these boards. This is the first time in years that I have felt like we are fielding one of the best teams in the league with no weaknesses.

I wanted to see an improved secondary, a better rotation of pass rushers and D-line rotation, new packages that play to the personnels strengths instead of trying to force things (like RW being in on passing downs), improvement at the ILB spot, an upgrade over Julius Jones (I hate you, rot in hell in Seattle with a sub-4 AYPC), an improvement from both Sam Hurd and Miles Austin, and the beginning stages of phasing out old people (nice to know you Greg Ellis). I got every single one of these things.

bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 02:47 PM
Potential for injuries were only a small part of why I am not so high on the Cowboys this year. My logic was based around your lame duck coach, who has a significant history of losing his team during tough years. Combine that with my belief that your team unity is not as strong as you think, and you could have a disappointing situation. If I'm wrong, I'll eat crow. However, I think that the start and close of your schedule is much tougher than you think, and it won't be so easy to get where you think you're going.

ALD
08-13-2008, 02:47 PM
I'll continue this point by point.

If it even crosses you're mind that Jenkins isn't an upgrade over Robertson or than Faneca isn't a huge upgrade over Clarke in both the running and passing game, then I can only assume that you never actually saw the Jets play last year. I'd argue that Clarke was the worst starting offensive lineman regardless of position in the entire NFL last year. And I'm going to rewrite in large bold letters.

ADRIAN CLARKE WAS THE WORST STARTING OFFENSIVE LINEMAN IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE.

And while Robertson might find success in the 4-3 as an undertackle, he was one of the biggest reasons the Jets defense was as bad as it was. You can argue that Jenkins isn't a pro bowl calibur player anymore, but anyone that argues that he outright sucks at this point in his career like Robertson did last year is either a fan of a rival AFC East or just plain foolish.


As for the Packers, how exactly did they overperform? A game away from the Superbowl, not really weak at any position on the team in 2007. And Rodgers, it always goes back to he's going to struggle. Even though to this point in the time that he's actually played, he hasn't. Nobody seems to even consider the possibility that he's going to do well.

As for the pro bowl, Ken Hamlin deserved to go, Roy Williams did not. I made my opinion on that fairly clear, despite what Laron Landry "could be".




And I have the right to nitpick, you even said so. :)

The Jets will be an improved team, but between the oline needing to gel with Faneca, Gholston needing to adjust to the NFL, Favre needing to learn a new offense and pace needing to get comfortable in a standard 3-4, there's plenty of reason for the jets turn around to be a slower process, and likely we won't even see much of the improvement until the second half of the season. At which i think it'll be too little to late for them to catch teh bills and jags for the wildcard.

bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 02:49 PM
Of all the things about the Jets, I'm least worried about their OLine. I think it will be a strength for them. However, I'm not 100% sold on Thomas Jones and Leon Washington running behind them, plus Favre and Coles/Cotchery getting on the same page. That stuff takes some time. I think the Jets will finish strong, but 8-8 isn't bad at all...

Burns336
08-13-2008, 02:49 PM
Is it possible that you overrate the Cowboys just a bit? It is possible that somewhere between my opinion and yours lies the truth. I just happen to think that this Cowboys team doesn't have the coaching and leadership to overcome an early setback.

A seemingly weak minded head coach is the only thing that bugs me. However, the coach-in-waiting Jason Garrett is nothing close to that. Since he was promoted to Assistant HC and is poised to take over, I would like to see him begin his role as a strong willed leader this year.

That being said, I feel like the loss to the Giants last year was one of the best things that could of happened to the Cowboys mentally. Everyone realizes you don't win anything on paper. They all seem to realize they got caught up enjoying the smell of their own ****.

I would like to believe that Zach Thomas, DeMarcus Ware, and Terrence Newman will keep the defense focused no matter what. I also think Jason Witten, A Tony Romo who is looking to prove to the world he can win in the post season, and a T.O. desperate for a superbowl ring should keep the offense on it's toes.

I just think we are worlds ahead of last year in terms of maturity and focus. I feel like the team has taken it upon themselves to get in more of a "Patriot" mindset, instead of trying to be spot light whores.

bsaza2358
08-13-2008, 02:51 PM
That may be so, but other teams have gotten better. The Giants are supremely confident, the Saints added more offensive weaponry, the Redskins are playing well this preseason, the Eagles are coming off a strong close to the season, and the Packers really only lost Favre. The Cowboys made adjustments, but are you supremely confident that other contenders didn't also improve enough to knock the Cowboys off a few games? Are you sure that the team won't struggle if they start 1-3 and lose a few close ones? I'm not at all.

MetSox17
08-13-2008, 02:52 PM
Potential for injuries were only a small part of why I am not so high on the Cowboys this year. My logic was based around your lame duck coach, who has a significant history of losing his team during tough years. Combine that with my belief that your team unity is not as strong as you think, and you could have a disappointing situation. If I'm wrong, I'll eat crow. However, I think that the start and close of your schedule is much tougher than you think, and it won't be so easy to get where you think you're going.

What i'm curious to know is how you have so much knowledge of the team unity on a team that you probably don't even regularly follow (and by regularly i mean knowing what's going on internally as things happen). It's just a silly little comment to make, cause the only ones who really know how the team unity is, is the team. Where do you get the information to base these statements off of?

ALD
08-13-2008, 02:52 PM
Of all the things about the Jets, I'm least worried about their OLine. I think it will be a strength for them. However, I'm not 100% sold on Thomas Jones and Leon Washington running behind them, plus Favre and Coles/Cotchery getting on the same page. That stuff takes some time. I think the Jets will finish strong, but 8-8 isn't bad at all...

I disagree with you there. A really strong oline needs to gel, the players need to learn each others tendencies and really work as a unit, that takes time. And with a new RT and LG who are vets who are used to doing things one way it'll take some time and I don't see that oline really becoming a strength until around week 8.

ALD
08-13-2008, 02:56 PM
What i'm curious to know is how you have so much knowledge of the team unity on a team that you probably don't even regularly follow (and by regularly i mean knowing what's going on internally as things happen). It's just a silly little comment to make, cause the only ones who really know how the team unity is, is the team. Where do you get the information to base these statements off of?

I'm just taking what I know about Wade Phillips as a HC and seeing how it fits with what happened with teh boys last season and postulating what would happen this seaosn if they struggle. If times get tough I don't think Phillips has a chance to rally that team, and if he's relying on Garrett to do that then why even keep Phillips aboard?

MetSox17
08-13-2008, 02:58 PM
I'm just taking what I know about Wade Phillips as a HC and seeing how it fits with what happened with teh boys last season and postulating what would happen this seaosn if they struggle. If times get tough I don't think Phillips has a chance to rally that team, and if he's relying on Garrett to do that then why even keep Phillips aboard?

I was mostly referring to the comment Bsaza made about "team unity". Which is a crock.

Everyone has their opinion on Wade Phillips, but ultimately, it'll come down to the players and whether they really want it. This is a veteran team, and they don't need some "rah-rah" guy pumping them up. Motivational coaches are sooo overrated.

Burns336
08-13-2008, 03:03 PM
That may be so, but other teams have gotten better. The Giants are supremely confident, the Saints added more offensive weaponry, the Redskins are playing well this preseason, the Eagles are coming off a strong close to the season, and the Packers really only lost Favre. The Cowboys made adjustments, but are you supremely confident that other contenders didn't also improve enough to knock the Cowboys off a few games? Are you sure that the team won't struggle if they start 1-3 and lose a few close ones? I'm not at all.

I feel like retaining all of our strong starters who led the team to a 13-3 record last year and upgrading the weak starters (Zach Thomas over Ayodele, Felix over Julius, Jenkins/Pacman over Jacque Reeves and Nate Jones... etc.) can only equal a more talented team this year.

Combine the talent we have, with the mental toughness we lacked last year, and I believe we are the class of the NFC.

Honestly, I usually don't make statements like this, but I would be shocked if we didn't win the SB this year. Barring some sort of season ending injury to Romo or Owens. Even if they got nicked, I think we could manage for a few games. We just can't afford to have either one of them end up on IR or miss half the year.

ALD
08-13-2008, 03:05 PM
I was mostly referring to the comment Bsaza made about "team unity". Which is a crock.

Everyone has their opinion on Wade Phillips, but ultimately, it'll come down to the players and whether they really want it. This is a veteran team, and they don't need some "rah-rah" guy pumping them up. Motivational coaches are sooo overrated.

Phillips doesn't even need be a rah-rah guy, coughlin sure as heck isn't, and neither is parcells or belicheck, but what those coaches do do is command the players respect so that when they speak the players really listen, I don't know if many of the cowboys players really buy into what phillips is saying, I know that if I had the physical abilities to play in the NFL and made that my life's work Phillips isn't the type of guy I'd follow unconditionally into battle, like I would a belicheck or a parcells.

Burns336
08-13-2008, 03:08 PM
I'm just taking what I know about Wade Phillips as a HC and seeing how it fits with what happened with teh boys last season and postulating what would happen this seaosn if they struggle. If times get tough I don't think Phillips has a chance to rally that team, and if he's relying on Garrett to do that then why even keep Phillips aboard?

My big thing is that I feel like the players have taken it upon themselves this year to manage the team, keep up the intensity and focus, and not take anything for granted.

For instance, we played such horrible special teams in the preseason opener that certain guys have come out and said "If we keep playing like this, we will go 9-7 at best and miss the playoffs" Others have come out and acknowledged that they need to step their game up in order for this team to do what they set out to do.

For comparison, last year consisted of a bunch of guys saying "It's just preseason, who cares?" or saying things like "We're fine, we just need to tweak some things."

To me it seems like everyone has a much bigger sense of urgency. They're all coming into every practice with a business like approach. No more ********.

So as for right now, we look awesome and the mental focus is right where I want it. If we stray, then I'll buy into some of the stuff you guys are saying. I just wouldn't count on it.

MetSox17
08-13-2008, 03:10 PM
Phillips doesn't even need be a rah-rah guy, coughlin sure as heck isn't, and neither is parcells or belicheck, but what those coaches do do is command the players respect so that when they speak the players really listen, I don't know if many of the cowboys players really buy into what phillips is saying, I know that if I had the physical abilities to play in the NFL and made that my life's work Phillips isn't the type of guy I'd follow unconditionally into battle, like I would a belicheck or a parcells.

If i compared my girlfriend to Heidi Klum, she wouldn't look that pretty anymore, right?

You're talking about cream of the crop, hall of fame coaches there. There's a handful of those in the history of the game, of course Phillips is gonna fall short.

I disagree when you say that players don't respect Phillips. Again, what are you basing these comments off of? Common perception? ESPN? What? Give me something, at least.

Players respect players, and follow their lead. Owens and Romo have said continously how good a coach Wade is. Whether that's by personality or X's and O's, it doesn't matter, they respect him. The veterans know what to do, they don't need someone lighting a fire under them. Again, this whole "Wade can't really the troops" crap is so damn overblown it's disgusting.

Geo
08-13-2008, 03:10 PM
1. The Bills and Texans are teams on the rise.
Not sure what you mean, both teams have already been on the rise, unless you're talking about 10-plus wins being in tangible reach this upcoming season for both teams. Which is fairly optimistic if that is the case, although the Bills could get it done with the right breaks I think.

2. The Cowboys will finish in the bottom half of the East and will be on the playoff bubble.
This might happen if one thing happens: TO breaks down this season earlier than he usually does.

That's what kills me about the Cowboys btw. TO is getting older and you can't even remember the last time he played a full healthy season, no wonder Romo declines in the playoffs when his only legit starting wide receiver is a worn down and injured TO by that time. And yet stupid Jerruh Jones decides this summer to pay something around 10M annually on average to three runningbacks (Barber, Felix, and Tashard) and gave 36-this-December Owens Moss/Fitzgerald money. So stupid, if Owens goes down this season or next, they are completely screwed because of the incredible drop-off in talent at wide receiver. Romo is a franchise quarterback, but he needs weapons and Witten can't carry the receiving core on his lonesome.

3. The Packers and Jets will both finish at .500.
I include the team Favre wanted to go to, the Minnesota Vikings, in that Favre-related sentence.

9. Coaching changes galore next offseason. Lane Kiffin will get fired pretty much no matter what. John Fox's team is already in shambles, and they need a new voice. Jim Zorn could be canned for no reason at all unless the Redskins win the NFC East. SF needs to clean house very badly. Lovie Smith is on the hot seat in Chicago. I think Marvin Lewis will get fired in Cinci (1 year too late). Between that and Mike Holmgren retiring, Wade Phillips being forced out for Garrett, and my prediction that Dungy will ride into the sunset with another title (see #10), we're looking at potentially 10 coaching changes going into 2009. Over/under is set at 6.5 changes total. I think I have to take the over...
Second "John Fox to be canned" prediction so far, after princefielder. Interesting. It wouldn't surprise me if Fox and the GM managed to save their jobs with an okay season, something around 8-8. I don't think they win a wild card spot, so their best hope is that no team in the division does extremely well to keep them in the thick of it.

If Zorn is fired after one year, Daniel Snyder needs to jump off a cliff.

10. Super Bowl Prediction: Colts over NFC East representative.
Fabulous! [/gum commercial] Cowboys would be the toughest match-up probably, not sure about the second-toughest though. I want to say the Giants, but they are poor at SS and have a rookie at FS, and their speed-based defense is neutralized by the speed-based Colts offense (see the 2006 match-up, I don't think the Giants got a single sack on Manning). Then again, the Colts match-up perfectly against the Eagles, speed-based nature coming into play again, as they've put 40-plus on Philly their last two games.

Would Dungy walk away if they win a second title? Marvin Harrison, who said two years ago he might play until he's 40? I'm not entirely sure, although obviously I hope that scenario happens so we can find out.

ALD
08-13-2008, 03:12 PM
My big thing is that I feel like the players have taken it upon themselves this year to manage the team, keep up the intensity and focus, and not take anything for granted.

For instance, we played such horrible special teams in the preseason opener that certain guys have come out and said "If we keep playing like this, we will go 9-7 at best and miss the playoffs" Others have come out and acknowledged that they need to step their game up in order for this team to do what they set out to do.

For comparison, last year consisted of a bunch of guys saying "It's just preseason, who cares?" or saying things like "We're fine, we just need to tweak some things."

To me it seems like everyone has a much bigger sense of urgency. They're all coming into every practice with a business like approach. No more ********.

So as for right now, we look awesome and the mental focus is right where I want it. If we stray, then I'll buy into some of the stuff you guys are saying. I just wouldn't count on it.

For your guys sake I hope so, although even then I still think your team leaders should respect the HC and they may be his lieutenants and people amongst the players, but in the organization the HC still has to be the man guy, as he's going to be the guy who bears the brunt of the criticism if ish goes wrong. I just can't see Phillips being that guy without the team leaders really building him up in the eyes of the other players to be that guy.

Burns336
08-13-2008, 03:16 PM
Not sure what you mean, both teams have already been on the rise, unless you're talking about 10-plus wins being in tangible reach this upcoming season for both teams. Which is fairly optimistic if that is the case, although the Bills could get it done with the right breaks I think.


This might happen if one thing happens: TO breaks down this season earlier than he usually does.

That's what kills me about the Cowboys btw. TO is getting older and you can't even remember the last time he played a full healthy season, no wonder Romo declines in the playoffs when his only legit starting wide receiver is a worn down and injured TO by that time. And yet stupid Jerruh Jones decides this summer to pay something around 10M annually on average to three runningbacks (Barber, Felix, and Tashard) and gave 36-this-December Owens Moss/Fitzgerald money. So stupid, if Owens goes down this season or next, they are completely screwed because of the incredible drop-off in talent at wide receiver. Romo is a franchise quarterback, but he needs weapons and Witten can't carry the receiving core on his lonesome.


I include the team Favre wanted to go to, the Minnesota Vikings, in that Favre-related sentence.


Second "John Fox to be canned" prediction so far, after princefielder. Interesting. It wouldn't surprise me if Fox and the GM managed to save their jobs with an okay season, something around 8-8. I don't think they win a wild card spot, so their best hope is that no team in the division does extremely well to keep them in the thick of it.

If Zorn is fired after one year, Daniel Snyder needs to jump off a cliff.


Fabulous! [/gum commercial] Cowboys would be the toughest match-up probably, not sure about the second-toughest though. I want to say the Giants, but they are poor at SS and have a rookie at FS, and their speed-based defense is neutralized by the speed-based Colts offense (see the 2006 match-up, I don't think the Giants got a single sack on Manning). Then again, the Colts match-up perfectly against the Eagles, speed-based nature coming into play again, as they've put 40-plus on Philly their last two games.

Would Dungy walk away if they win a second title? Marvin Harrison, who said two years ago he might play until he's 40? I'm not entirely sure, although obviously I hope that scenario happens so we can find out.



My whole thing with T.O.'s injuries is that at least they aren't Donte Stallworth-like. Meaning, Owens isn't the guy who pulls a hammy or tweaks his groin and sits out for a few weeks. All of his injuries just come from bad luck. Roy Williams broke his leg in Philly, he had broken bones in his hand that needed screws, and he played all of last season until the Carolina game when he got his leg twisted in a way that legs aren't supposed to twist. To his credit, he has always fought hard to come back from injury and perform at a high level.

I don't like his injuries, but I think they can be viewed as really bad luck instead of these guys who always have something.

Jughead10
08-13-2008, 03:17 PM
Fabulous! [/gum commercial] Cowboys would be the toughest match-up probably, not sure about the second-toughest though. I want to say the Giants, but they are poor at SS and have a rookie at FS, and their speed-based defense is neutralized by the speed-based Colts offense (see the 2006 match-up, I don't think the Giants got a single sack on Manning). Then again, the Colts match-up perfectly against the Eagles, speed-based nature coming into play again, as they've put 40-plus on Philly their last two games.

Would Dungy walk away if they win a second title? Marvin Harrison, who said two years ago he might play until he's 40? I'm not entirely sure, although obviously I hope that scenario happens so we can find out.

Not saying the Giants would beat the Colts, because they would certainly be underdogs but that game in 2006, Tim Lewis was the DC. Completely different defense than what we have now. Not a good thing to point to help prove a point. This defense attacks 100x more than we did back in 2006.

Jughead10
08-13-2008, 03:18 PM
My whole thing with T.O.'s injuries is that at least they aren't Donte Stallworth-like. Meaning, Owens isn't the guy who pulls a hammy or tweaks his groin and sits out for a few weeks. All of his injuries just come from bad luck. Roy Williams broke his leg in Philly, he had broken bones in his hand that needed screws, and he played all of last season until the Carolina game when he got his leg twisted in a way that legs aren't supposed to twist. To his credit, he has always fought hard to come back from injury and perform at a high level.

I don't like his injuries, but I think they can be viewed as really bad luck instead of these guys who always have something.

I wouldn't count on a TO injury either. He is phenominal shape. However he is one player the Cowboys can't afford to lose. And Romo of course, but most teams in the NFL can't afford to lose their QB.

Geo
08-13-2008, 03:20 PM
Marvin Harrison had arm and wrist injuries all throughout the 2006 season and the postseason run, but at least he didn't miss a game. (Granted, he shouldn't have played against the Chargers because he wasn't healthy enough to.)

Terrell Owens hasn't played a 16-game season since 2001. He caught 2 catches for 26 yards against Seattle in the '06 playoffs, and 4 catches for 49 yards and a touchdown against the Giants in the '07 playoffs. He's a Hall of Fame player who can do much more than that when healthy, we've seen it.

LonghornsLegend
08-13-2008, 03:21 PM
Cowboys: I mentioned injuries as a possibility, but that isn't the crux of my argument. I was more about the weakness at safety, my perception that they lack team unity, the fact that Phillips is a lame duck coach, plus the crush of expectations and the fact that they won't sneak up on anyone. The Phillips situation is significant. He didn't have Garrett as the coach in waiting last year. He almost lost his job after the playoffs and a 13-3 season. That is a big deal. Phillips has a long history of losing teams, and I don't get the feeling that his players will kill themselves for him. Injuries are a possibility with any aging player, and the Cowboys OLine is older than it is younger. I think the Boys lack a little OLine depth, which is why I think an injury there will be a big deal.


Point by point:


The safeties are the same starters that were there last year when we won 13 games, so by bringing the same guys back we get worse? You do realize by bringing in man cover corners like Mike Jenkins, Adam Jones, along with the two we have makes a safeties job easier right? Also if anything SS is a weak spot, not our "safeties" as Hamlin is one of the best safeties in the game, Roy is going to be taken out in nickel and dime formations this year because of the depth at corner, so again not buying that argument.


Lack of team unity? Again this is the exact same team returning, whats so hard to understand about that? How does your team unity get worse from returning the core of your team? It's not like we lost an emotional leader ala Strahan, if anything we improved the unity by signing Zach Thomas, no way you can sell me on our team chemistry being worse off, thats probably the furthest thing from the truth and there is nothing at all to back that.


Not sneaking up on anyone, when is the last time the Cowboys snuck up on anyone? It surely wasn't last year, and frankly I can't remember the last time we did, not sure its possible for the Cowboys to "sneak" up on anyone as much attention as they get, with all the star players on their team.


If you want to believe Wade almost lost his job, and that he is worried about Garrett so much that we don't make the playoffs then so be it, I'm not one to tell somebody their opinion is wrong, but I don't buy the other reasons at all, sounds more like Cowboy bias then anything, either love em or hate em.

ALD
08-13-2008, 03:25 PM
Not saying the Giants would beat the Colts, because they would certainly be underdogs but that game in 2006, Tim Lewis was the DC. Completely different defense than what we have now. Not a good thing to point to help prove a point. This defense attacks 100x more than we did back in 2006.

Not only do we attack more but our corners can actually see the receivers they're supposed to be covering unlike the Lewis strategy of hide around your own goalline and hope the receivers get close enough to the corners before they get the ball for the corners to even have a chance.

thule
08-13-2008, 03:27 PM
One thing to point out. While everyone seems to be skeptical of Wade...Dallas brought in quite a few new coaches this offseason...and had they landed Dom Capers we could be talking about one of the best coaching staffs to be assembled.

So this isn't a Wade or bust team imo....we have guys like
Garrett
Sherman manning the WR's
Skip Peete teaching the young guns at RB
Houck manning the OL

The on the defensive side of the ball we have
Brian Stewart who is a puppet imo...but Campers refused to come take his job from him....which is really too bad.
Todd Grantham on the DL...which has been dominate so far in TC
Campo in the secondary....who better?
Reggie Herring and Dat Nguyen working with the LBs...probably a slight downgrade from Paul last year.

Bottomline is...the cowboys have a coaching staff that gets along...we don't have any parcells peices hanging around....everything is cleaned up and this team is set to move forward with Wade as the Head Coach....I could see if this team had weak spots...but right now about the only coach who seems to be having problems is Bruce Reed our special teams coach....and people are begging for him to get the boot...for some unknown reason he wasn't exchanged out this offseason and I think it will show.

Bigburt63
08-13-2008, 03:28 PM
I disagree with you there. A really strong oline needs to gel, the players need to learn each others tendencies and really work as a unit, that takes time. And with a new RT and LG who are vets who are used to doing things one way it'll take some time and I don't see that oline really becoming a strength until around week 8.

I'm not sold on Woody being an NFL caliber RT, he was a solid center (1 pro bowl i believe), and a decent guard, but tackle is very different from those.

ALD
08-13-2008, 03:30 PM
Even with a great staff if the Head guy doesn't respect there's going to be some division in the team, especially with Garrett waiting to take Wade's job.

ALD
08-13-2008, 03:31 PM
I'm not sold on Woody being an NFL caliber RT, he was a solid center (1 pro bowl i believe), and a decent guard, but tackle is very different from those.

As I've said time and again the Jets will improve, and at the end of this seaosn will be miles ahead of the team that ended last season, but that doesn't mean they'll start off as a far superior team.

Geo
08-13-2008, 03:36 PM
Not saying the Giants would beat the Colts, because they would certainly be underdogs but that game in 2006, Tim Lewis was the DC. Completely different defense than what we have now. Not a good thing to point to help prove a point. This defense attacks 100x more than we did back in 2006.
This doesn't mean much to me, honestly. The Giants' defensive ends won't get to Manning because he gets rid of the ball and the athletic offensive line of the Colts is built to pass protect him long enough to do that. Should the Giants bring extra rushers by blitzing, that just leaves more open field for a Colts' receiver to find an open zone, especially if one of the remaining two linebackers in coverage is liability Antonio Pierce. The Colts have hardly seen any blitzing since the 2004 season for that reason.

Aaron Ross would shut down a 36-year-old Marvin Harrison by playing physical, but he'd just get *****-slapped by either quick route-runner in Reggie Wayne or Anthony Gonzalez like Wes Welker did to him in SB XLII. Speed is the issue with the Giants secondary, not just the corners but the safeties won't be fast enough either because of either age (Sammy Knight), talent, or inexperience (Kenny Phillips). The Colts are built on speed, it's power that gives them trouble and the Giants aren't fielding one of the league's best 3-4 defenses like the Patriots, Steelers, and Chargers of the last few years. The best chance a 4-3 defense has against the Colts is if it has at least one mammoth defensive tackle up front to stop the run, like Henderson/Stroud of the Jags' defensive peak and Haynesworth for the Titans now, and the Giants don't have that defensive tackle.

And unfortunately for Plaxico, there's no Jason David and Nick Harper to abuse now.

ALD
08-13-2008, 03:46 PM
This doesn't mean much to me, honestly. The Giants' defensive ends won't get to Manning because he gets rid of the ball and the athletic offensive line of the Colts is built to pass protect him long enough to do that. Should the Giants bring extra rushers by blitzing, that just leaves more open field for a Colts' receiver to find an open zone, especially if one of the remaining two linebackers in coverage is liability Antonio Pierce. The Colts have hardly seen any blitzing since the 2004 season for that reason.

Aaron Ross would shut down a 36-year-old Marvin Harrison by playing physical, but he'd just get *****-slapped by either quick route-runner in Reggie Wayne or Anthony Gonzalez like Wes Welker did to him in SB XLII. Speed is the issue with the Giants secondary, not just the corners but the safeties won't be fast enough either because of either age (Sammy Knight), talent, or inexperience (Kenny Phillips). The Colts are built on speed, it's power that gives them trouble and the Giants aren't fielding one of the league's best 3-4 defenses like the Patriots, Steelers, and Chargers of the last few years. The best chance a 4-3 defense has against the Colts is if it has at least one mammoth defensive tackle up front to stop the run, like Henderson/Stroud of the Jags' defensive peak and Haynesworth for the Titans now, and the Giants don't have that defensive tackle.

And unfortunately for Plaxico, there's no Jason David and Nick Harper to abuse now.

I'm sorry but when you start off your post with something that ignorant how can someone take you seriously? You're talking about a horrible defensive co-ordinator who left his press corners atleast 10 yards off the ball at all times and called a blitz every other game versus one of the best young co-ordinators who's defense is built around press coverage and bringing heat. You just can't even compare the 2008 giants defense to the 2006 giants defense, and if you do it's do to ignorance is simply bad judgement.

Now you may think that our pass rush won't get to peyton and that's fine, our pass rush wasn't supposed to get to Brady either, but to say that the change from tim lewis to spags doesn't mean anything to you is just foolish.

Edit: You're insinuation that our defense doesn't have power and that Plax wouldn't be effective simply because Jason David is no longer on your team are also laughable. We won the superbowl by being physical and aggressive, and plax roasted one of the better corners in the league on one leg in the NFC title game.

Geo
08-13-2008, 03:49 PM
Take from what you will, I really don't care. The only Giants fans whose opinions I respect are BBD and Manning+Shockey. And scottyboy, but that goes without saying.

scottyboy
08-13-2008, 03:51 PM
metsox, did you really say beat up on lesser teams like the Giants? and you said you "destroyed" us last year? yea you beat us kinda bad(albeit, they were both what, 2 score games?) but losing in the playoffs to us is hardly "destroying"

do people actually forget the Giants lost the Super Bowl? and that they had this same hate last year? like fo' realz? Yea we lost Shockey, remember that whole "tiki's gone, giants r ****** lolz" thing last year? yea me too...

our only key loss is Strahan. period.

ALD
08-13-2008, 03:52 PM
Take from what you will, I really don't care. The only Giants fans whose opinions I respect are BBD and Manning+Shockey. And scottyboy, but that goes without saying.

Man you're really good at this supporting your opinion thing. You make a ludicrous statement and then follow it up with the remarkably childish "well I don't care about your opinion" Bravo you've really made a great point.:rolleyes: But oh well, I don't have the rep to be taken seriously by someone as awesome and respected as you...

scottyboy
08-13-2008, 03:52 PM
Take from what you will, I really don't care. The only Giants fans whose opinions I respect are BBD and Manning+Shockey. And scottyboy, but that goes without saying.

YAY!

but now I've gotta go back and read this whole debate and see who's right: n00b Giants fan(that 3 letters guy, not juggy of course) or awesome Geo... ****, where's my loyalty at? lol

scottyboy
08-13-2008, 03:54 PM
I was mostly referring to the comment Bsaza made about "team unity". Which is a crock.

Everyone has their opinion on Wade Phillips, but ultimately, it'll come down to the players and whether they really want it. This is a veteran team, and they don't need some "rah-rah" guy pumping them up. Motivational coaches are sooo overrated.

pretty sure a motivational coach won the Super Bowl last year ;)

Crickett
08-13-2008, 03:55 PM
YAY!

but now I've gotta go back and read this whole debate and see who's right: n00b Giants fan or awesome Geo... ****, where's my loyalty at? lol


Well, since you asked......

http://609design.com/rutgers/RutgersR.gif <---- right there

Geo
08-13-2008, 03:59 PM
You are the true Coolio Cat, scotty.

All this talk about how the Giants got to Brady - newsflash, speed rushers give left tackle Matt Light problems, ask any Pats fan and they will tell you, and the entire right side of the Patriots offensive line is a mess then and now thanks to injuries and guys not working out.

That's why I was one of the few who picked the Giants to win Super Bowl XLII. They had some good match-ups going for them, but it's completely different if they play the Colts. Much worse match-up for the Giants, you've seen the occassional struggle Eli has against zone defenses for crying out loud.

scottyboy
08-13-2008, 04:00 PM
the colts are a damn tough matchup for us. Honestly, I truely believe Peyton is one of THE hardest QB's to sack in the NFL. he always seems to step in just the right spot to avoid the sacks. i'd say it's Peyton moreso the Colts OL. The colts faster WR's ala Gonzo and Wayne would give us fits, because admit it Giants fans, we are a slooow back 7. our fastest position is like DE with Osi. hah. I think Addai would have trouble and Plax would have a good game, but Marlin can be tough. Jump balls to Boss against Sanders with about a foot height difference would be fun though ;)!(more interesting actually).

Peyton would give our young secondary some troubles. While we'd no doubt be the underdogs, I think it'd still be very close. I mean, we were the underdogs with no shot this year! :D

scottyboy
08-13-2008, 04:02 PM
You are the true Coolio Cat, scotty.

All this talk about how the Giants got to Brady - newsflash, speed rushers give left tackle Matt Light problems, ask any Pats fan and they will tell you, and the entire right side of the Patriots offensive line is a mess then and now thanks to injuries and guys not working out.

That's why I was one of the few who picked the Giants to win Super Bowl XLII. They had some good match-ups going for them, but it's completely different if they play the Colts. Much worse match-up for the Giants, you've seen the occassional struggle Eli has against zone defenses for crying out loud.

well I picked the Giants cuz I'm a homer. But I kinda explained another reason why Peyton is so damn hard to sack in my post above. Brady isn't Bledsoe, but he doesn't have the pocket awareness ala Peyton. Plus, Strahan and Osi were too strong AND quick. Both are an excellent combo of each. That was a big part. I'm not 100% familiar on the Colts OL, so I'll refrain on speaking about them. But Peyton is a MAJOR reason he's not on his ass alot

ALD
08-13-2008, 04:02 PM
You are the true Coolio Cat, scotty.

All this talk about how the Giants got to Brady - newsflash, speed rushers give left tackle Matt Light problems, ask any Pats fan and they will tell you, and the entire right side of the Patriots offensive line is a mess then and now thanks to injuries and guys not working out.

That's why I was one of the few who picked the Giants to win Super Bowl XLII. They had some good match-ups going for them, but it's completely different if they play the Colts. Much worse match-up for the Giants, you've seen the occassional struggle Eli has against zone defenses for crying out loud.

I wasn't even talking about a giants/colts match up, I was just talking about how ridiculous your reasoning was. That 2006 team was completely different than teh one that'd be playing this season. but if you want to talk about matchups Osi could put a clinic on if he got more than one shot at Ugoh mano a mano, same with tuck on the inside, Peyton may get rid of the ball really quickly but so does Tom Brady and if we can penetrate the oline like we did against the pats we can disrupt Peyton just like we did Brady.

Jughead10
08-13-2008, 04:02 PM
This doesn't mean much to me, honestly. The Giants' defensive ends won't get to Manning because he gets rid of the ball and the athletic offensive line of the Colts is built to pass protect him long enough to do that. Should the Giants bring extra rushers by blitzing, that just leaves more open field for a Colts' receiver to find an open zone, especially if one of the remaining two linebackers in coverage is liability Antonio Pierce. The Colts have hardly seen any blitzing since the 2004 season for that reason.

Aaron Ross would shut down a 36-year-old Marvin Harrison by playing physical, but he'd just get *****-slapped by either quick route-runner in Reggie Wayne or Anthony Gonzalez like Wes Welker did to him in SB XLII. Speed is the issue with the Giants secondary, not just the corners but the safeties won't be fast enough either because of either age (Sammy Knight), talent, or inexperience (Kenny Phillips). The Colts are built on speed, it's power that gives them trouble and the Giants aren't fielding one of the league's best 3-4 defenses like the Patriots, Steelers, and Chargers of the last few years. The best chance a 4-3 defense has against the Colts is if it has at least one mammoth defensive tackle up front to stop the run, like Henderson/Stroud of the Jags' defensive peak and Haynesworth for the Titans now, and the Giants don't have that defensive tackle.

And unfortunately for Plaxico, there's no Jason David and Nick Harper to abuse now.

Again, I didn't suggest the Giants would win. They would be underdogs. However to suggest that the the Giants defense in 2006 under a comepletely different scheme with different players couldn't touch Peyton, so they wouldn't be able to do it this year if they played the Colts is foolish reasoning. Especially since their O-line is weaker than it was two years ago. At least in my opinion.

ALD
08-13-2008, 04:04 PM
well I picked the Giants cuz I'm a homer. But I kinda explained another reason why Peyton is so damn hard to sack in my post above. Brady isn't Bledsoe, but he doesn't have the pocket awareness ala Brady. Plus, Strahan and Osi were too strong AND quick. Both are an excellent combo of each. That was a big part. I'm not 100% familiar on the Colts OL, so I'll refrain on speaking about them. But Peyton is a MAJOR reason he's not on his ass alot

I agree with pretty much everything there except the bolded sentence, largely because it didn't make sense and I tend not to agree with things that I can't understand.

ALD
08-13-2008, 04:05 PM
Again, I didn't suggest the Giants would win. They would be underdogs. However to suggest that the the Giants defense in 2006 under a comepletely different scheme with different players couldn't touch Peyton, so they wouldn't be able to do it this year if they played the Colts is foolish reasoning. Especially since their O-line is weaker than it was two years ago. At least in my opinion.

Don't get worked up, Geo only respects bbd, Manning+Shockey=Shocking and scotty's opinions. :rolleyes:

scottyboy
08-13-2008, 04:05 PM
I agree with pretty much everything there except the bolded sentence, largely because it didn't make sense and I tend not to agree with things that I can't understand.

BAH! typo, I fixed it, supposed to be "peyton" instead of the last "Brady"

ALD
08-13-2008, 04:06 PM
BAH! typo, I fixed it, supposed to be "peyton" instead of the last "Brady"

Brady's got a lightening release and isn't exactly david carr in the pocket. Peyton has amazing pocket presence but if anyone's close it's Tom Brady.

Geo
08-13-2008, 04:10 PM
You guys know I have a like for the Giants, because of their history and I like Eli plus a few other players (definitely not all though). Heck I was signing Spags' and Ross' praises when most Giants fans were cautiously optimistic and other fans didn't know (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=643699&highlight=spags#post643699). I'm just being brutally honest here, I think the Giants match-up much better against the Patriots and the Chargers also than the Colts.

Of course I would like to see a Super Manning Bowl to find out.

Jughead10
08-13-2008, 04:13 PM
You guys know I have a like for the Giants, because of their history and I like Eli plus a few other players (definitely not all though). Heck I was signing Spags' and Ross' praises when most Giants fans were cautiously optimistic and other fans didn't know (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=643699&highlight=spags#post643699). I'm just being brutally honest here, I think the Giants match-up much better against the Patriots and the Chargers also than the Colts.

Of course I would like to see a Super Manning Bowl to find out.

Thats fine. And we were just pointing out the foolish reasoning you originally gave.

Geo
08-13-2008, 04:15 PM
Go to town and have a party with it.

ALD
08-13-2008, 04:17 PM
You guys know I have a like for the Giants, because of their history and I like Eli plus a few other players (definitely not all though). Heck I was signing Spags' and Ross' praises when most Giants fans were cautiously optimistic and other fans didn't know (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?p=643699&highlight=spags#post643699). I'm just being brutally honest here, I think the Giants match-up much better against the Patriots and the Chargers also than the Colts.

Of course I would like to see a Super Manning Bowl to find out.

That's not our gripe, our gripe is with the terrible logic you used to back up that opinion in your initial post, the 2006 comment. And then when you got called out on it you said you still don't think it's a big deal. Not trying to be a dick or anything, I just have a tendency to attack atrocious reasoning.

As for the match up while I think Peyton definately could have success against our D, I think our running game would just run wild over your defense, I mean Brandon Jacobs is bigger than all but a DT or two on your team, we've got a brutal oline and Ahmad Bradshaw is an incredible tough runner himself. Add to that that the Eli to Plax connection would still yield major results and I think our O matches up as well against your D as your O to our D, assuming Eli doesn't go back to forcing the ball into coverage like he did under hufnagel and for a good chunk of last season.

BlindSite
08-13-2008, 05:49 PM
4. Major players on the move next offseason: I see a lot of movement this next offseason, whether it's via trade, retirement, or release: Clinton Portis, Donovan McNabb, Anquan Boldin, Willie Parker, Kareem McKenzie, Amani Toomer, Brian Dawkins, Derrick Anderson, Todd Heap, DeAngelo Williams, Julius Peppers, Jake Delholme, Jeff Garcia, Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Larry Johnson, John Runyan, Derrick Brooks, Charles Woodson, Kyle Boller, Jeremy Shockey, Flozell Adams, Randy Thomas, Roy Williams (both of em), and Matt Light. I think all of these players will be with new teams this time next year.



First of all, why would Julius Peppers be walking? First if he has an awesome season, the team will resign him, since his contract being up gives us massive free space. Second, if has has another bad season pass rushing, the team resigns him for cheap and tries to fix him. It's a moot point anyway since the team has begun preliminary talks with his Agent and he's looking world's apart from last year.

Second neither Williams nor Delhomme's contracts are up at the end of the year and neither contract is hard on the cap. There's no financial or performance reason to remove either of these players...

Delhomme will be better than every FA on the market next year and the draft class looks like crap. There's no way either of these players are on the market. This is all paragraph padding...


9. Coaching changes galore next offseason. Lane Kiffin will get fired pretty much no matter what. John Fox's team is already in shambles, and they need a new voice. Jim Zorn could be canned for no reason at all unless the Redskins win the NFC East. SF needs to clean house very badly. Lovie Smith is on the hot seat in Chicago. I think Marvin Lewis will get fired in Cinci (1 year too late). Between that and Mike Holmgren retiring, Wade Phillips being forced out for Garrett, and my prediction that Dungy will ride into the sunset with another title (see #10), we're looking at potentially 10 coaching changes going into 2009. Over/under is set at 6.5 changes total. I think I have to take the over...



How is the team in shambles? There's been one fight between Smith and Lucas? This isn't even an issue any more. The two have made up, Smith has apologised, he feels terrible and that's it...

There's no QB controversy, no coaching/players rift. The biggest distraction in the locker room has been removed and disappointments from last year (peppers, jarrett) are both vastly improved.

In fact, I doubt there's many teams in the NFL as stable as the Panthers at this point...

I don't mind reading people's opinions, but they have to atleast marinate in facts. They can't just be pulled out of the air.

ALD
08-13-2008, 05:55 PM
BS don't you know peppers is going to NY to play the Tuck role for big blue?

MetSox17
08-13-2008, 06:10 PM
metsox, did you really say beat up on lesser teams like the Giants? and you said you "destroyed" us last year? yea you beat us kinda bad(albeit, they were both what, 2 score games?) but losing in the playoffs to us is hardly "destroying"

do people actually forget the Giants lost the Super Bowl? and that they had this same hate last year? like fo' realz? Yea we lost Shockey, remember that whole "tiki's gone, giants r ****** lolz" thing last year? yea me too...

our only key loss is Strahan. period.

When the best part of your team is the same part that gave up 76 points in two games to our offense, i'd say you got destroyed. I was referring to regular season matchups, seeing as how people are already saying that we're gonna go 9-7.

You have a few people missing from that team, most importantly Strahan. We're bringing back 21 starters, all 13 pro bowlers, and the one starter that did leave, we upgraded (Thomas over Ayodole). This from the same team that beat you twice in the regular season, and you needed every break go your way in the playoffs to win, yet we still had a shot in the last drive of the game. I'm not overrating the Cowboys, but the hate they get for being popular is ridiculous.

ALD
08-13-2008, 06:31 PM
The cowboys were out of that playoff game by the 4th quarter, they technically had a shot but they had already wilted and if they're not a lot mentally tougher I can't see them doing much this postseason either. It might not be against us, but they will be out willed by a team if they're not tougher this time around.

scottyboy
08-13-2008, 07:05 PM
Brady's got a lightening release and isn't exactly david carr in the pocket. Peyton has amazing pocket presence but if anyone's close it's Tom Brady.

**** release time, whole lotta good that did Brady. he was still getting drilled and throwing non-Brady-esque passes. I'm talking sidesteps, knowing EXACTLY where to step away from the rush so you can set and have a good throw. That "manning bowl" Peyton impressed me A TON. Granted different rush from us, but couple times Strahan would come crashing in on him, and he'd step away perfectly and Stray would have a tiny grib of sleeve, and be run out of the play.

Geo
08-13-2008, 07:24 PM
I'm pretty sure Brady under Charlie Weis got the ball out quicker, nevermind the other benefits Brady gained having Weis as his offensive coordinator.

Brady probably held onto the ball the most he ever has this year becaue he kept looking for Moss down the field. Which obviously was highly successful in the regular season, understatement and all, and for almost all of the regular season had all the time he wanted thanks to the offensive line.

ALD
08-13-2008, 07:46 PM
**** release time, whole lotta good that did Brady. he was still getting drilled and throwing non-Brady-esque passes. I'm talking sidesteps, knowing EXACTLY where to step away from the rush so you can set and have a good throw. That "manning bowl" Peyton impressed me A TON. Granted different rush from us, but couple times Strahan would come crashing in on him, and he'd step away perfectly and Stray would have a tiny grib of sleeve, and be run out of the play.

To Be fair in that game we had no inside pass rush, at all, we only had osi and strahan coming off the edges, we have a much better pass rush now.

Iamcanadian
08-13-2008, 11:35 PM
BBD passed the torch to me, so I'm going to do my thing. Didn't read any of the other truths. Not saying I'm going to be right either. Just doing my thing.

1. The Bills and Texans are teams on the rise. I usually mock Buffalo's long, long run of bad luck, but I just have a hunch about them this year. I think they are an underrated team on both sides of the ball. They have a workhorse back in Marshawn Lynch, an up and comer in Trent Edwards, and I loved the selection of Hardy as a possession-type WR opposite the speedy Evans. I think the Bills will sneak up on people early, then they have a great home field advantage, especially in November/December. They won't unseat the Patriots, but I think they will beat the Pats once this year and will finish second in their division. I foresee a 10-6 record and a playoff berth.


---I don't think the Bills are going anywhere fast. Edwards needs at least another year under his belt to lead the Bills anywhere. They won't come close to a 10-6 record and will have a very hard time staying ahead of the Jets.

The Texans play in a sickeningly good division, but they have a full year under Kubiak and his zone-blocking scheme. I think that Steve Slaton will be a decent weapon, and Andre Johnson is god-like when healthy. Keep Matt Schaub upright, and he should be awesome. Owen Daniels is underrated stretching the seams of the D. I think the Texans defense led by Demeco Ryans and Mario Williams will really make strides this year. I don't see them making the playoffs, but I think they will be very, very strong.

---I agree that Houston is far more advanced than the Bills and could make a substantial leap in their Division but it won't be easy.

2. The Cowboys will finish in the bottom half of the East and will be on the playoff bubble. Everything seemed to break right for the Cowboys last season, and their offense was prolific, allowing their D to really tee off on some teams. Everyone in the league will be ready to play the Cowboys this year, and they are no longer a novelty act. They are the hunted. I think DeMarcus Ware is one of the best in the league, but the safety combo of Roy and Ken Hamlin remains a weak spot, despite excellent depth at CB between an already dinged TNew, an underrated Henry, and a rusty-but-talented Pacman. I see more injuries biting the Cowboys, perhaps on the OLine, which will affect them significantly. On top of it, I see a lot of strong personalities in that locker room, and I see a coach in Wade Phillips who is a lame duck. Jason Garrett is the future of the Cowboys, and the players know it. Anyone can have a happy locker room when the team goes 13-3. I find it hard to believe that this team will knuckle down and kick arse if they start 1-3. I don't think TO will be the problem. I just don't see them as a team that will come together under Phillips. Cowboys go 9-7 due to injuries and a ridiculous division schedule and miss the playoffs because the terrible teams in the West and South have to be represented. I think the Cowboys are poised for a ridiculous run come 2009. They just have to suffer through some pain in 2008.

---I'm not sure about the Cowboys. Romo failure in the playoffs has raised a serious concern about his talent as a leader. If he falls back then you could be right otherwise the Cowboys will rule the East.

3. The Packers and Jets will both finish at .500. The Jets have the easiest schedule in the league and a QB who can throw the ball further than 8 yards. They also have a bunch of new players and a very weak CB crew. They also play in a division with a rising Bills team, a Dolphins team that can't be that bad, and the juggernaut Pats. I think their D pressures the QB, and Favre steals 2 games for them. 8-8 in the AFC East after a 4-12 2008 is a huge success. Green Bay is another team that overachieved last season and won some games that they probably should have lost. I don't see Aaron Rodgers having a bad year, but he's not Brett Favre. Their D should take a step back from excellent to merely very very good, and they are likely due for some more injuries (law of averages). They have a tougher schedule this year, and no one will overlook them. 8-8 seems much more likely than 12-4...

---While I believe the jury is still out on GB and in particular, Rodgers, I can see the Jets going 9-7 and finishing 2nd in their Division. They might start slowly as Favre will have to make huge adjustments to what he is used to and he has never done well his 1st year with a new HC. However, he is a mile and then some above Buffalo's QB and Miami's QB and that may tell in the end.

4. Major players on the move next offseason: I see a lot of movement this next offseason, whether it's via trade, retirement, or release: Clinton Portis, Donovan McNabb, Anquan Boldin, Willie Parker, Kareem McKenzie, Amani Toomer, Brian Dawkins, Derrick Anderson, Todd Heap, DeAngelo Williams, Julius Peppers, Jake Delholme, Jeff Garcia, Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Larry Johnson, John Runyan, Derrick Brooks, Charles Woodson, Kyle Boller, Jeremy Shockey, Flozell Adams, Randy Thomas, Roy Williams (both of em), and Matt Light. I think all of these players will be with new teams this time next year.

Nobody knows the fate of these players for next year, this is all pure supposition

5. Offseason Awards:

Coach of the Year: I think it is a race between Brad Childress, Dick Jauron, and Gary Kubiak. Winner: Kubiak

---Childress or Kubiak, Jauron won't even be close. My choice is Sean Payton.

MVP: Brian Westbrook means everything to the Eagles offense. I think he justifies his contract and posts 2300 yards from scrimmage with 19 TD's. If the Eagles do what I hope they can do, that means he is a strong contender.

---Only If McNabb stays completely healthy otherwise no chance.


Offensive MVP: Matt Schaub, Texans. I think everything breaks right for the Texans this year. They will still have to throw because their D is still coming together. Andre Johnson should be healthy, and I like their peripheral weapons. Of course, the lack of a great RB is also helpful...

---This is a stretch to say the least. Try again when he has a solid RB.


Defensive MVP: Lofa Tatupu. I think he is everything to that defense, and I see a tremendous year for him. He is underrated to me, if that's possible...

---Certainly a possibility!


OROY: Matt Forte, Bears. The offensive ROY is usually the RB that his the best OLine + the most chances. I could be wrong here, but I just have a hunch.

---My hunch says McFadden by a mile ala Peterson.


DROY: Keith Rivers, Bengals. I think he is that good, and I think he will be that good from Day 1. He will amass monster amounts of tackles and sacks because he has to.6.

---I'm thinking no chance playing in that rotten defense. Ellis is the guy for me.


The Rams will win the NFC West. I don't love the Seahawks on offense this year. Their RB's are just as bad as they were in 2007 with Alexander, and I think they will miss DJ Hackett more than you think. Holmgren is also a lame duck coach, and I just don't see this D carrying the team enough. We know that SF is horrendous, and Arizona's secondary remains in shambles, and there is no clarity with their QB situation. I think the Rams are much improved, I love the hiring of Al Saunders. I think not being in camp will preserve the shelf life of SJax, and I think he will finish strong. Throw in an easy schedule, the emergence of Adam Carriker, and the Bulger-Holt connection, and I think they win the West with a 9-7 record.

---I couldn't disagree more. Last place in the NFC West is far more likely than 1st place. They'll battle San Fran for that privilege.


7. Fantasy Values/Studs: Matt Schaub, Mark Bulger, Matt Forte, Dwayne Bowe, Sidney Rice, Marshawn Lynch, Deuce McCallister (second half pickup), LJ Smith, Robert Meacham, Anthony Gonzalez, Steven Jackson, Brandon Jacobs, Donovan McNabb, Donald Driver, Thomas Jones, Calvin Johnson, Josh Cribbs, and Rudi Johnson.

---Except for the obvious producers, a very ugly list IMO.

8. Fantasy Overdrafts/Duds: Marvin Harrison, Antonio Gates, Larry Johnson, Randy Moss (I think his TD's fall to under 10), Cadillac Williams, the Carolina Panthers, Seattle RB's/WR's, Todd Heap, Felix Jones, John Kitna, Donte Stallworth, Carson Palmer, Tony Romo (will be very good, not amazing), and David Garrard.

9. Coaching changes galore next offseason. Lane Kiffin will get fired pretty much no matter what. John Fox's team is already in shambles, and they need a new voice. Jim Zorn could be canned for no reason at all unless the Redskins win the NFC East. SF needs to clean house very badly. Lovie Smith is on the hot seat in Chicago. I think Marvin Lewis will get fired in Cinci (1 year too late). Between that and Mike Holmgren retiring, Wade Phillips being forced out for Garrett, and my prediction that Dungy will ride into the sunset with another title (see #10), we're looking at potentially 10 coaching changes going into 2009. Over/under is set at 6.5 changes total. I think I have to take the over...

---A rush to judgment on a few. Marvin Lewis will never be fired till his contract is up. Cincy is way too cheap to pay 2 HC's. That's why he still has his job. Fox's chances ride on Delhomme's recovery from Tommy John surgery. If he's sound, they will be a very decent team and his job will be safe.


10. Super Bowl Prediction: Colts over NFC East representative. I think the Colts are poised to really make a run here. Yes, they choked in 2007, but this is Dungy's last stand, and he'll leave as a champion. The Colts are being overlooked, which is a mistake for sure. I think they have an offense that can put up points, and their defense is underrated. The NFC East is the deepest and strongest division in football. The Giants remain underrated even after they , the Cowboys are just as talented as they were in 2007, the Eagles are flying under the radar, and the Redskins have a new coach and a great attitude. The teams in the East are the best 4 teams in the conference in terms of both coaching and talent. Whoever closes strongest in December will be the best team in the conference and will be battle tested. Still, the Colts will prove to be too high powered an offense, even outdoors on grass. Manning and Dungy will win their second title together in February 2009.

---My money is on New England to return to finish what they started last year. I see New Orleans with a stronger defense carrying the NFC banner. All the NFC East teams have huge question marks surrounding them.

LonghornsLegend
08-13-2008, 11:41 PM
---My money is on New England to return to finish what they started last year. I see New Orleans with a stronger defense carrying the NFC banner. All the NFC East teams have huge question marks surrounding them.

The NFC east teams have huge questions marks, but you just shrugged off New Orleans defense as being stronger and carrying the NFC banner, so I guess their defense is no longer a huge question mark because your sold? Great logic.

ALD
08-13-2008, 11:59 PM
You're selling the bills short there, no way the texans are far more advanced when they're oline is infinitely worse, RBs aren't even comparable, defense overall is on par and QB is just as unproven.

Iamcanadian
08-14-2008, 12:05 AM
The NFC east teams have huge questions marks, but you just shrugged off New Orleans defense as being stronger and carrying the NFC banner, so I guess their defense is no longer a huge question mark because your sold? Great logic.

I assume your a Cowboy's fan by your name. The Cowboys could dominate but they first have to answer the question of whether Romo can win a playoff game, if he answers that question then they are certainly a threat to make it to the Super Bowl. However, they have never done it under Romo and until they do, they remain suspect in my book.
The Giants look tough but the record for teams making it back to the Super Bowl after winning it is rather poor so they have to prove they can overcome that.
The Eagles will go as far as McNabb's health carries them but I'm not expecting him to make it through the season based on past performance.
IMO, Washington will fall back without Gibbs as their HC. His abilities covered up a lot of weaknesses on the Redskins.
New Orleans is certainly no cinch to make it to the Super Bowl but I happen to think the addition of Ellis on defense will be telling, their offense looks ready to shine. IMO, they have a real shot but like the Cowboys they will have to prove on the field that they can get the job done. It's only my opinion but I think they have a real shot especially since the race looks wide open to me.

yodabear
08-14-2008, 12:08 AM
These really aren't truths like Thule's are. On #6, I hope ur right, I really do, I just don't see it. Jackson not being in will kill us. Linehan is still our coach. Although, like u, I see no one that jumps out on paper in the west, but I still don't see us winning it.

LonghornsLegend
08-14-2008, 12:32 AM
I assume your a Cowboy's fan by your name. The Cowboys could dominate but they first have to answer the question of whether Romo can win a playoff game, if he answers that question then they are certainly a threat to make it to the Super Bowl. However, they have never done it under Romo and until they do, they remain suspect in my book.
The Giants look tough but the record for teams making it back to the Super Bowl after winning it is rather poor so they have to prove they can overcome that.
The Eagles will go as far as McNabb's health carries them but I'm not expecting him to make it through the season based on past performance.
IMO, Washington will fall back without Gibbs as their HC. His abilities covered up a lot of weaknesses on the Redskins.
New Orleans is certainly no cinch to make it to the Super Bowl but I happen to think the addition of Ellis on defense will be telling, their offense looks ready to shine. IMO, they have a real shot but like the Cowboys they will have to prove on the field that they can get the job done. It's only my opinion but I think they have a real shot especially since the race looks wide open to me.


You didn't have to address the Cowboys at all in your post, because I didn't argue we didn't have question marks, I was arguing how you just dismissed New Orleans defense being horrible last year and all of a sudden being the anchor that carries them to the super bowl...So thats not a question anymore because you like some additions(a rookie who has yet to show his impact), that still doesn't mean its not a huge question mark for them this season, because if your going to use that argument the Giants should make it back to the super bowl...Their defense anchored them there, and even though the lost Strahan I believe the additions of Phillips and Thomas will make up for it.

bigbluedefense
08-15-2008, 07:02 PM
great thread bsaza, i think i agree with all of them, with the exception of the Cowboys truth, albeit i can definitely see it happening. the east is so wide open.



and Matt Schaub is very underappreciated, great call. i agree with most of it.

brat316
03-30-2009, 07:58 PM
Damn Bsaza was dead on with players on the move.

Gribble
03-30-2009, 08:49 PM
2. The Cowboys will finish in the bottom half of the East and will be on the playoff bubble. Everything seemed to break right for the Cowboys last season, and their offense was prolific, allowing their D to really tee off on some teams. Everyone in the league will be ready to play the Cowboys this year, and they are no longer a novelty act. They are the hunted. I think DeMarcus Ware is one of the best in the league, but the safety combo of Roy and Ken Hamlin remains a weak spot, despite excellent depth at CB between an already dinged TNew, an underrated Henry, and a rusty-but-talented Pacman. I see more injuries biting the Cowboys, perhaps on the OLine, which will affect them significantly. On top of it, I see a lot of strong personalities in that locker room, and I see a coach in Wade Phillips who is a lame duck. Jason Garrett is the future of the Cowboys, and the players know it. Anyone can have a happy locker room when the team goes 13-3. I find it hard to believe that this team will knuckle down and kick arse if they start 1-3. I don't think TO will be the problem. I just don't see them as a team that will come together under Phillips. Cowboys go 9-7 due to injuries and a ridiculous division schedule and miss the playoffs because the terrible teams in the West and South have to be represented. I think the Cowboys are poised for a ridiculous run come 2009. They just have to suffer through some pain in 2008.

Wow...

eaglesalltheway
04-01-2009, 07:02 AM
^Damn Straight, lol. Lots of good calls there bsaza.

jkb528
04-01-2009, 05:24 PM
Too bad my Bills failed to come through again... Forever 7-9.

Rayray52
04-02-2009, 12:39 AM
I LOL'd when i read Childress for coach of the year...

Shane P. Hallam
04-02-2009, 04:39 AM
Damn Bsaza was dead on with players on the move.

http://www.sonic.net/%7Eatomicow/necropost.jpg

brat316
04-02-2009, 11:24 AM
stop ur hating it isn't going to help ur cause