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evans555
08-15-2008, 12:54 PM
I'm taking Parrish, McGee and McKelvin over Devin "ESPN" Hester or Josh Cribbs any day

Funny how the Bills three headed monster gets little to no media coverage unlike the one demensional Hester

Throw in the accuracy of Lindell and The punting of Moorman and the Bills have the best ST unit hands down

Heres a clip of McKelvin's 95 yd. TD return last night against the Steelers

Sick and tired of hearing about Hester and Cribs time to give the Bills returners some props


McKelvin's return

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80a02e19


With the new title it now looks like every other thread on this site :eek:

Gay Ork Wang
08-15-2008, 01:04 PM
Hester > Everyone

kk thx bai

evans555
08-15-2008, 01:05 PM
Hester > Everyone

kk thx bai


Parrish, McGee, McKelvin> Hester


Keep watching ESPN though

I'm sure you think Teddy Bruschi can walk on water also

Xonraider
08-15-2008, 01:06 PM
I'm taking Parrish, McGee and McKelvin over Devin "ESPN" Hester or Josh Cribbs any day

Funny how the Bills three headed monster gets little to no media coverage unlike the one demensional Hester

Throw in the accuracy of Lindell and The punting of Moorman and the Bills have the best ST unit hands down

Heres a clip of McKelvin's 95 yd. TD return last night against the Steelers

Sick and tired of hearing about Hester and Cribs time to give the Bills returners some props


McKelvin's return

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80a02e19


The thing is, it doesn't really matter how much returners you have, since only one or two can be in at the same time...

evans555
08-15-2008, 01:08 PM
The thing is, it doesn't really matter how much returners you have, since only one or two can be in at the same time...

Well you could have two returners on kick offs....

I would say its the same argument as people who use backup RBs as part of the RB rankings

How often are both RB's on each team on the field at the SAME time?

Gay Ork Wang
08-15-2008, 01:08 PM
Parrish, McGee, McKelvin> Hester


Keep watching ESPN though

I'm sure you think Teddy Bruschi can walk on water also
I dont get ESPN. But Neither one of them have any kind of record. neither one of them will be gameplanned against.

U have 3 returners that are good? who cares u can only let one guy return it anyways.

There is a difference with RBs, they get alot more touches. Returners get like what? 5-6 touches? now divided that by 3. ya, 2 touches per guy. Awesome

The Bears and Patriots would have my vote for the best ST

TheBuffaloBills
08-15-2008, 01:09 PM
The thing is, it doesn't really matter how much returners you have, since only one or two can be in at the same time...

You have a good point, but it keeps the players fresh.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2008, 01:09 PM
Statistically the Bears have had the best special teams the last few years now, not just because of Hester but because of our coverage teams and kicking game. It has nothing to do with ESPN, it has to do with statistical analysis, which is a bit stronger of an argument than one video.

I also think it's funny that you criticize Hester for being a one-dimensional returner. What dimension do you want him to run? Sideways? Having multiple returners doesn't mean much when you only have one person to kick the ball to.

Anyway, come back with some actual statistics or I'll assume you're twelve years old and ignore you henceforth.

diabsoule
08-15-2008, 01:10 PM
So, you know all of this after one pre-season game?

Xonraider
08-15-2008, 01:13 PM
You have a good point, but it keeps the players fresh.

He only enters the field about 5 punts, say 4 kickoff returns and every now and then on offense (talking about Devin Hester)

So you really don't need to be kept ''fresh''...

TheBuffaloBills
08-15-2008, 01:13 PM
I am not on any sides, but I wont be against the Bills on this one.....

Parrish led the league in PR average..... at 16.3 yard average

Gay Ork Wang
08-15-2008, 01:13 PM
Yard averages tell u nothing

TheBuffaloBills
08-15-2008, 01:14 PM
He only enters the field about 5 punts, say 4 kickoff returns and every now and then on offense (talking about Devin Hester)

So you really don't need to be kept ''fresh''...


That was a bad choice of words on my part..... I meant out of breath rather than fresh......

SuperMcGee
08-15-2008, 01:15 PM
I'm not sure where this thread comes from, but don't go reverse on the Bills now. They've been a top ST unit for years before McKelvin came along. It's been the Bills and the Bears at the top for a while now.

McGee has been on of the better consistent returners for 5 years or so, Parrish led the league in PR avg last year and obviously has that big play ability. We have the best punt coverage in the league, a damn good punter to go with it, and a very accurate kicker who is probably top 3 in the league from distance. Bills have been among the league leaders ever since April got here, they've just been brilliant under him.

Gay Ork Wang
08-15-2008, 01:16 PM
I'm not sure where this thread comes from, but don't go reverse on the Bills now. They've been a top ST unit for years before McKelvin came along. It's been the Bills and the Bears at the top for a while now.

McGee has been on of the better consistent returners for 5 years or so, Parrish led the league in PR avg last year and obviously has that big play ability. We have the best punt coverage in the league, a damn good punter to go with it, and a very accurate kicker who is probably top 3 in the league from distance. Bills have been among the league leaders ever since April got here, they've just been brilliant under him.
we are not taking anything away from the Bills, but to say they are better now because they have 3 capable Returners..

TheBuffaloBills
08-15-2008, 01:16 PM
Yard averages tell u nothing

i disagree, I know hate me, but to say yard averages mean nothing is somewhat absurd....

IMO I would rather have a guy that has a good average and less TD than a low average and more TD..... But that is just me.

Gay Ork Wang
08-15-2008, 01:18 PM
i disagree, I know hate me, but to say yard averages mean nothing is somewhat absurd....

IMO I would rather have a guy that has a good average and less TD than a low average and more TD..... But that is just me.
u do know that those return averages dont actually tell u the whole story do u?

Xonraider
08-15-2008, 01:19 PM
i disagree, I know hate me, but to say yard averages mean nothing is somewhat absurd....

IMO I would rather have a guy that has a good average and less TD than a low average and more TD..... But that is just me.

Well, in this case, Devin Hester had 15.5, Parrish had 16.3

Devin had 4 TD's... Roscoe had 1...

TheBuffaloBills
08-15-2008, 01:19 PM
u do know that those return averages dont actually tell u the whole story do u?

Sure, but it is a stat that gives you an idea of how good a PR is.... You cant deny that.

SuperMcGee
08-15-2008, 01:21 PM
we are not taking anything away from the Bills, but to say they are better now because they have 3 capable Returners..

I agree, it's a miniscule improvement. If anything McKelvin could replace McGee (our #1 corner) and we'd have a fresher guy who runs just as well bringing them back. We have been trying packages with Parrish and McKelvin out on punts together, but I don't know how much that will really do for us.

D-Unit
08-15-2008, 01:22 PM
Seriously??? This is the preseason folks. Let's not get carried away. I'll be absolutely shocked if McKelvin returns even one during the regular season.

Gay Ork Wang
08-15-2008, 01:23 PM
Sure, but it is a stat that gives you an idea of how good a PR is.... You cant deny that.
yes i can.

If i kick the ball to a guy at the 40 with basically no space and he returns it to the 45 five times he gets an 5 yard average

if i kick it to a guy at the 5 with a lot of space and he returns it to the 25 he gets an 20 yard average.

Id still rather take the guy who gets the ball at the 45 than at the 20

evans555
08-15-2008, 01:24 PM
Statistically the Bears have had the best special teams the last few years now, not just because of Hester but because of our coverage teams and kicking game. It has nothing to do with ESPN, it has to do with statistical analysis, which is a bit stronger of an argument than one video.

I also think it's funny that you criticize Hester for being a one-dimensional returner. What dimension do you want him to run? Sideways? Having multiple returners doesn't mean much when you only have one person to kick the ball to.

Anyway, come back with some actual statistics or I'll assume you're twelve years old and ignore you henceforth.

The last two seasons Rian Lindell is 47 of 52 on Field goals

Robbie Gould is 63 of 72- Advantage Buffalo

Brain Moorman has averaged one more yard per punt than Brad Maynard over the last three seasons- advantage Buffalo

It is well known through out the league the Bills have the best ST coverage unit

So your point again please?

I get my daily dose of Hester via ESPN

Do your homework and actually watch the Bills before you comment buddy

SuperMcGee
08-15-2008, 01:26 PM
Seriously??? This is the preseason folks. Let's not get carried away. I'll be absolutely shocked if McKelvin returns even one during the regular season.

Returns a kick or touchdown? And why?

evans555
08-15-2008, 01:27 PM
we are not taking anything away from the Bills, but to say they are better now because they have 3 capable Returners..


So McKelvin does not make there Special Teams better ?

The same returner who tied the NCAA record

TheBuffaloBills
08-15-2008, 01:27 PM
Well, in this case, Devin Hester had 15.5, Parrish had 16.3

Devin had 4 TD's... Roscoe had 1...

I will agree with you that Hester is a better PR than Parrish, but I was telling Renji my opinion.

Gay Ork Wang
08-15-2008, 01:28 PM
The last two seasons Rian Lindell is 47 of 52 on Field goals

Robbie Gould is 63 of 72- Advantage Buffalo

Brain Moorman has averaged one more yard per punt than Brad Maynard over the last three seasons- advantage Buffalo

It is well known through out the league the Bills have the best ST coverage unit

So your point again please?

I get my daily dose of Hester via ESPN

Do your homework and actually watch the Bills before you comment buddy
okay lets see

Robbie Gould plays in the windy city which makes it a lot harder for him

Moorman is the better punter no doubt

but the bears coverage unit is the best ST coverage unit in the league...

So McKelvin does not make there Special Teams better ?

The same returner who tied the NCAA record

yea cause how u play at ur college is just like how u gonna play in the NFL.
Just look at Ryan Leaf or even Ted Ginn

TheBuffaloBills
08-15-2008, 01:30 PM
Robbie Gould plays in the windy city which makes it a lot harder for him



Or the Blizzards of Buffalo?

evans555
08-15-2008, 01:31 PM
okay lets see

Robbie Gould plays in the windy city which makes it a lot harder for him

Moorman is the better punter no doubt

but the bears coverage unit is the best ST coverage unit in the league...



yea cause how u play at ur college is just like how u gonna play in the NFL.
Just look at Ryan Leaf or even Ted Ginn


lol hahahaha you really think Chicago is called the Windy city because its windy!

Chicago got that nickname because of "political trade winds" not actual wind lol

And come down to Buffalo from oct-mar and tell me it is not the windest stadium

D-Unit
08-15-2008, 01:31 PM
Returns a kick or touchdown? And why?
A touchdown of course. Obviously he will be apart of the kick return rotation.

In the preseason, teams are trying out new things and ironing out kinks and majority of ST players are guys who are fighting for roster spots or won't be in the league by showing ST skills. It's very easy to exploit them. When the regular season comes around, I think McKelvin will be decent, but also won't find it to be as easy.

SuperMcGee
08-15-2008, 01:32 PM
yes i can.

If i kick the ball to a guy at the 40 with basically no space and he returns it to the 45 five times he gets an 5 yard average

if i kick it to a guy at the 5 with a lot of space and he returns it to the 25 he gets an 20 yard average.

Id still rather take the guy who gets the ball at the 45 than at the 20

Even so, Roscoe is one of the guys you'd take.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2008, 01:34 PM
The last two seasons Rian Lindell is 47 of 52 on Field goals

Robbie Gould is 63 of 72- Advantage Buffalo

Brain Moorman has averaged one more yard per punt than Brad Maynard over the last three seasons- advantage Buffalo

It is well known through out the league the Bills have the best ST coverage unit

So your point again please?

I get my daily dose of Hester via ESPN

Do your homework and actually watch the Bills before you comment buddy

You can find much more intuitive statistically analysis than that. That says nothing of the weather conditions, the lengths of the kicks, or the coverage units.

As for your assertion that it is "well known through out [sic] the league the Bills have the best ST coverage unit", I'd like to know where that is.

Scouts Inc has ranked the Bears the best special teams unit the last few years. I'll take that over your mysterious others.

Buddy.

TheBuffaloBills
08-15-2008, 01:36 PM
A touchdown of course. Obviously he will be apart of the kick return rotation.

In the preseason, teams are trying out new things and ironing out kinks and majority of ST players are guys who are fighting for roster spots or won't be in the league by showing ST skills. It's very easy to exploit them. When the regular season comes around, I think McKelvin will be decent, but also won't find it to be as easy.

I dont know man.... He returned one to the house in the second game and came o so close on the first game to return one too......

SuperMcGee
08-15-2008, 01:39 PM
A touchdown of course. Obviously he will be apart of the kick return rotation.

In the preseason, teams are trying out new things and ironing out kinks and majority of ST players are guys who are fighting for roster spots or won't be in the league by showing ST skills. It's very easy to exploit them. When the regular season comes around, I think McKelvin will be decent, but also won't find it to be as easy.

To say you'd be absolutely shocked if he did it, though? Seems like an overreaction. This guy has shown he's a great returner throughout college, and he's already had 3 very impressive deep returns in two games (against preseason coverage units, I know). It's possible he won't, absolutely, he doesn't even have the job to himself as it stands. But this isn't the guy I'd shrug off.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2008, 01:40 PM
I'm not arguing for or against McKelvin, but it's pretty safe to say that the preseason doesn't mean ****. Not just for returns, for anything.

D-Unit
08-15-2008, 01:42 PM
I dont know man.... He returned one to the house in the second game and came o so close on the first game to return one too......
We'd get a better guage if he gets more opportunities against the first team unit.

TheBuffaloBills
08-15-2008, 01:43 PM
yes i can.

If i kick the ball to a guy at the 40 with basically no space and he returns it to the 45 five times he gets an 5 yard average

if i kick it to a guy at the 5 with a lot of space and he returns it to the 25 he gets an 20 yard average.

Id still rather take the guy who gets the ball at the 45 than at the 20

Ok so what..... I am sure its pretty even throughout the league when it comes to where punters recieve the ball... I highly doubt it would make that big of an effect on Return average for you to say the stat doesnt mean anything

Addict
08-15-2008, 01:44 PM
wow... the first dumbass homer thread of the season is here.

D-Unit
08-15-2008, 01:45 PM
To say you'd be absolutely shocked if he did it, though? Seems like an overreaction. This guy has shown he's a great returner throughout college, and he's already had 3 very impressive deep returns in two games (against preseason coverage units, I know). It's possible he won't, absolutely, he doesn't even have the job to himself as it stands. But this isn't the guy I'd shrug off.
Look at the level of competition he faced in college? It was worst than these 4th quarter NFL preseason ST units.

It's ok for you guys to be homers, but let's wait for the regular season before crowning yourselves the best Special Teams units in the NFL. Geez.

evans555
08-15-2008, 01:45 PM
You can find much more intuitive statistically analysis than that. That says nothing of the weather conditions, the lengths of the kicks, or the coverage units.

As for your assertion that it is "well known through out [sic] the league the Bills have the best ST coverage unit", I'd like to know where that is.

Scouts Inc has ranked the Bears the best special teams unit the last few years. I'll take that over your mysterious others.

Buddy.


lol the same scouts Inc that has the Bills OL ranked 21st with one of the best left tackles in the game (rankings were set prior to holdout)

You do know Scouts INC is ESPN based?

bearsfan_51
08-15-2008, 01:45 PM
Ok so what..... I am sure its pretty even throughout the league when it comes to where punters recieve the ball... I highly doubt it would make that big of an effect on Return average for you to say the stat doesnt mean anything

What are you even talking about?

Teams kick the ball high and away to Hester, they purposefully kick the ball a shorter distance to give him less opportunities to break a long one. That's why his return per average is less, he's getting less field to operate with and he still breaks them from time to time.

The best indication of a returners worth is to judge where the teams kick from vis-a-vis where the offense receives the ball. Everything else is a worthless stat.

Everytime a team kicks the ball out of bounds on a kickoff, that's essentially a 30-35 yard return for Hester. It's really not that hard to understand.

TheBuffaloBills
08-15-2008, 01:46 PM
I'm not arguing for or against McKelvin, but it's pretty safe to say that the preseason doesn't mean ****. Not just for returns, for anything.

Sure you can say that but you can get a sense of how good a returner is during the preseason.... If they are getting to the open area then more power to them.... but if they are constantly getting no where then maybe thats a sign of things to come in the regular season.

evans555
08-15-2008, 01:46 PM
wow... the first dumbass homer thread of the season is here.

And why is that I AM TALKING ABOUT ST UNITS AS A WHOLE

Not just KR and PR

Gay Ork Wang
08-15-2008, 01:47 PM
Even so, Roscoe is one of the guys you'd take.
i never meant to knock on Parrish, who would prolly be the 2nd-3rd guy id pick. All i tried to say is that the stats are misleading


EDIT: Evans, thats still a dumbass homer thread to say ur the best ST Unit in the league

TheBuffaloBills
08-15-2008, 01:48 PM
What are you even talking about?

Teams kick the ball high and away to Hester, they purposefully kick the ball a shorter distance to give him less opportunities to break a long one. That's why his return per average is less, he's getting less field to operate with and he still breaks them from time to time.

The best indication of a returners worth is to judge where the teams kick from vis-a-vis where the offense receives the ball. Everything else is a worthless stat.

Everytime a team kicks the ball out of bounds on a kickoff, that's essentially a 30-35 yard return for Hester. It's really not that hard to understand.

Cant you say the same thing for many PR.....

bearsfan_51
08-15-2008, 01:49 PM
Sure you can say that but you can get a sense of how good a returner is during the preseason.... If they are getting to the open area then more power to them.... but if they are constantly getting no where then maybe thats a sign of things to come in the regular season.

No.

The preseason doesn't mean ****. Ever. Unless you are an actual scout that breaks down tape there is literally no way you can understand the context and the scheming that goes into each play. Sometimes the open areas are there because the kickoff they were messing with had a serious flaw in it, or because they were playing with a bunch of guys that had never played special teams before.

I'll say it again, the preseason doesn't mean ****.

TheBuffaloBills
08-15-2008, 01:50 PM
I am not being a homer..... I am just backing up and defending.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2008, 01:50 PM
Cant you say the same thing for many PR.....

No, you can't. No teams scheme around other returners like they do Hester. It's not even close.

PoopSandwich
08-15-2008, 01:51 PM
Wow overreact much?

TheBuffaloBills
08-15-2008, 01:51 PM
No.

The preseason doesn't mean ****. Ever. Unless you are an actual scout that breaks down tape there is literally no way you can understand the context and the scheming that goes into each play. Sometimes the open areas are there because the kickoff they were messing with had a serious flaw in it, or because they were playing with a bunch of guys that had never played special teams before.

I'll say it again, the preseason doesn't mean ****.

OK your entitled to your opinion, but I think you can get a sense of how players are..... They cut players because of there performance in preseason.... So it does mean something.

D-Unit
08-15-2008, 01:52 PM
lol the same scouts Inc that has the Bills OL ranked 21st with one of the best left tackles in the game (rankings were set prior to holdout)

You do know Scouts INC is ESPN based?
Well if you consider that the Bills offense was 30th in the league in TDs scored last year... that kinda means the OL was pretty bad. Not blaming the OL for everything, but it was obvious that they weren't confused as being a demolition crew.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-15-2008, 01:53 PM
I love the Bills Special teams. I got to see a video tape of Bobby April I believe, their ST coach is, and it was a great video. The guy is a sick special teams coach. He went over all his drills for special teams, and proper blocking techniques, and everything. Alot of people concentrate on the players like Hester and Cribbs, but props should go to the coaches that work to draw up a great special teams scheme, and create very good drills! Another great video to watch on special teams is by Frank Beamer, VT's Head Coach. That by far is my favorite special teams video. The guy is a special team's genius!

D-Unit
08-15-2008, 01:57 PM
but they have a great LT which, as you know, accounts for 5/5 of the offensive line positions. so there's no way they could be ranked 21. they should be like, 3, at worst.
"i'm not 100% in love with your tone right now." :D

Addict
08-15-2008, 01:58 PM
OK your entitled to your opinion, but I think you can get a sense of how players are..... They cut players because of there performance in preseason.... So it does mean something.

yeah that's right, you get a SENSE. Trust me a preseason TD return does not equal an 'emergance', now if he runs 2 or 3 back for TD is the regular season, we'll talk about an emergence. Until then, the people who make claims that this ONE return equals an emergence need to shut up.

Gay Ork Wang
08-15-2008, 01:59 PM
OK your entitled to your opinion, but I think you can get a sense of how players are..... They cut players because of there performance in preseason.... So it does mean something.
saying that shows that u dont really want to change ur view, u just wanted to state ur opinion. Why do people always think criticism is directed against the person himself?

D-Unit
08-15-2008, 02:02 PM
I want to thank the Bills fans for making this the Thread of the Day. It was interesting conversation. I love to see passion behind debates and I've certainly seen that here.

Now somebody create a new thread that will stir another good debate. :)

Anything except for another Roy Williams debate please. We already know he's the best Safety in the game because he went to the Pro Bowl. ;)

SuperMcGee
08-15-2008, 02:03 PM
Look at the level of competition he faced in college? It was worst than these 4th quarter NFL preseason ST units.

It's ok for you guys to be homers, but let's wait for the regular season before crowning yourselves the best Special Teams units in the NFL. Geez.

I'm not crowning us as anything. This thread is completely pointless. I just came in because I love our ST and never pass up an oppurtunity to praise Bobby April. We don't approach 7 wins without him last year.
Did I go too far by saying it's ridiculous to close the book on McKelvin taking one all the way? My apologies, if so :rolleyes:

Gay Ork Wang
08-15-2008, 02:05 PM
I love the Bills Special teams. I got to see a video tape of Bobby April I believe, their ST coach is, and it was a great video. The guy is a sick special teams coach. He went over all his drills for special teams, and proper blocking techniques, and everything. Alot of people concentrate on the players like Hester and Cribbs, but props should go to the coaches that work to draw up a great special teams scheme, and create very good drills! Another great video to watch on special teams is by Frank Beamer, VT's Head Coach. That by far is my favorite special teams video. The guy is a special team's genius!
Where can i get those Videos?

evans555
08-15-2008, 02:07 PM
Well if you consider that the Bills offense was 30th in the league in TDs scored last year... that kinda means the OL was pretty bad. Not blaming the OL for everything, but it was obvious that they weren't confused as being a demolition crew.

The Bills OL allowed 26 sacks last season and had a ROOKIE RB who missed games crack the 1,000yd mark

D-Unit
08-15-2008, 02:10 PM
The Bills OL allowed 26 sacks last season and had a ROOKIE RB who missed games crack the 1,000yd mark
Those stats are meaningless without TDs. Don't you think? If you think 26 is a low number... Then what do you think of the 25 total TDs the offense produced?

Now onto the OL debate! :D

CC.SD
08-15-2008, 02:11 PM
Thread=Fail. Hester>All*


*=No Decision on Spiderman or Antonio Cromartie. :D

Rob S
08-15-2008, 02:29 PM
Bills have been the best in the NFL for the past 3 years. Elite punter and kicker (check Lindell's #'s before arguing). Elite coverage units, elite returners. We are elite everywhere. Other teams may be better individually (ie: hester), but as a whole the bills have been the best for a while. We are the best minus McKelvin imo. Bobby April should be a head coach.

skinzzfan25
08-15-2008, 02:33 PM
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j230/jmz105/BuffaloBillskickerScottNorwoodmissi.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Right_arrow.svg/434px-Right_arrow.svg.png

PalmerToCJ
08-15-2008, 02:34 PM
The Bills have a good special teams but man is the homerism in this thread through the roof. [/Mr. Obvious]

EDIT: LOLOL at the above.

Xonraider
08-15-2008, 02:38 PM
The Raiders have the best running game with McFadden and Bush to compliment Fargas!!!!11

evans555
08-15-2008, 02:41 PM
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j230/jmz105/BuffaloBillskickerScottNorwoodmissi.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Right_arrow.svg/434px-Right_arrow.svg.png

Skinsfan I could think of an even better pic I will post

Of Lindell kicking the game winning FG at Fed ex field last season to beat the sloppy redskins

After our Rookie QB marched them down the field lol

Xonraider
08-15-2008, 02:42 PM
Skinsfan I could think of an even better pic I will post

Of Lindell kicking the game winning FG at Fed ex field last season to beat the sloppy redskins

After our Rookie QB marched them down the field lol

You compare a regular season game to a Super Bowl?

Sure, the Bills have the best ST's in the league

yourfavestoner
08-15-2008, 02:43 PM
Thank you Jesus, my life can go on now that I have this crucial information concerning the Buffalo Bills and their mighty special teams.

And if Buffalo's line is so good, and Marshawn Lynch is so good, then how come he only averaged 4.0 ypc?

PalmerToCJ
08-15-2008, 02:44 PM
Skinsfan I could think of an even better pic I will post

Of Lindell kicking the game winning FG at Fed ex field last season to beat the sloppy redskins

After our Rookie QB marched them down the field lol

I'm sure that loss is stinging them just as badly...

I can see 20 years from now 'skins fans talking about that regular season game in '07 when Lindell kicked the game winner...

SuperMcGee
08-15-2008, 02:45 PM
Bills have been the best in the NFL for the past 3 years. Elite punter and kicker (check Lindell's #'s before arguing). Elite coverage units, elite returners. We are elite everywhere. Other teams may be better individually (ie: hester), but as a whole the bills have been the best for a while. We are the best minus McKelvin imo. Bobby April should be a head coach.

There's more to the Bears' special teams than Hester. A good amount more.
You're also using the term "elite" a little loosely. McGee hasn't been elite since 05, as much as a treasure he is with his ability and consistency.
April is pretty studly.

evans555
08-15-2008, 02:49 PM
I'm sure that loss is stinging them just as badly...

I can see 20 years from now 'skins fans talking about that regular season game in '07 when Lindell kicked the game winner...

Point being it isnt vastly outdated it happened last season

It is relevant to THIS seasons team

I could give 2 SWEARING MAKES ME FEEL COOL right now what happened over a decade ago

I am a fan of the CURRENT Bills team....and that team beat the Skins in the skins house

Rob S
08-15-2008, 02:49 PM
There's more to the Bears' special teams than Hester. A good amount more.
You're also using the term "elite" a little loosely. McGee hasn't been elite since 05, as much as a treasure he is with his ability and consistency.
April is pretty studly.

Of course this is a ton more than Hester (and Hester takes too many gambles catching balls and cant catch them alltogether sometimes). But I really do feel the Bills are in the top 5 at almost every aspect of the ST game. Moorman is probably the best in the biz considering where he plays. Lindell is so underrated it not even funny. I cant think of 5 returners I take before McGee. And our coverage units have been flat out nasty for the last 3 years (altho we do have a ton of guys to replace this year).

PalmerToCJ
08-15-2008, 02:49 PM
There's more to the Bears' special teams than Hester. A good amount more.
You're also using the term "elite" a little loosely. McGee hasn't been elite since 05, as much as a treasure he is with his ability and consistency.
April is pretty studly.

Thank you for bringing sanity to the thread, I was hoping you'd show up.

Your comrades are getting a little carried away...

skinzzfan25
08-15-2008, 02:50 PM
Skinsfan I could think of an even better pic I will post

Of Lindell kicking the game winning FG at Fed ex field last season to beat the sloppy redskins

After our Rookie QB marched them down the field lol

Or Mark fricken Rypien spanking the Bills in 91 with the biggest superbowl shutout lead.

Just a year after ;)

Lol, don't get all mad about the pic, it's just the first thing that pops into my head when I hear Bills special teams.

yo123
08-15-2008, 02:51 PM
The Bills OL allowed 26 sacks last season and had a ROOKIE RB who missed games crack the 1,000yd mark

If you have a RB that gets 280 carries, he better get 1,000 yards. He could have averaged 3.6 YPC and still run for 1,000 yards.

Gay Ork Wang
08-15-2008, 02:51 PM
Point being it isnt vastly outdated it happened last season

It is relevant to THIS seasons team

I could give 2 Sh!ts right now what happened over a decade ago

I am a fan of the CURRENT Bills team....and that team beat the Skins in the skins house
And in the end the Skins made the Playoffs and the Bills didnt

diabsoule
08-15-2008, 03:00 PM
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j230/jmz105/BuffaloBillskickerScottNorwoodmissi.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Right_arrow.svg/434px-Right_arrow.svg.png

LACES OUT!

bearsfan_51
08-15-2008, 03:08 PM
Could someone check and see if evans555 is billingsly? The similarities are pretty stark.

SuperMcGee
08-15-2008, 03:09 PM
Thank you for bringing sanity to the thread, I was hoping you'd show up.

Your comrades are getting a little carried away...

I've actually been here for a while. Hopefully I haven't been grouped with the OP and respected local comic "TheBuffaloBills"

yo123
08-15-2008, 03:15 PM
Could someone check and see if evans555 is billingsly? The similarities are pretty stark.

We'll have to wait to see if he starts cheering for the Patriots halfway through the season.

Rob S
08-15-2008, 03:15 PM
most people here know I wont just go all out homer with the bills. However, the special teams are amazing and it is something i believe.

BufFan71
08-15-2008, 03:20 PM
as a bills fan


how can u not say Chicago has the best ST?
They've had the best for a few years now


Buffalo has a top-notch ST unit too. Id rank them 2nd in the NFL

SuperMcGee
08-15-2008, 03:23 PM
Could someone check and see if evans555 is billingsly? The similarities are pretty stark.

I don't think he'd try to joke about his Bruschi-Jesus beliefs, but most else is fitting.

Rob S
08-15-2008, 03:24 PM
as a bills fan


how can u not say Chicago has the best ST?
They've had the best for a few years now


Buffalo has a top-notch ST unit too. Id rank them 2nd in the NFL

we have the better punter by far imo. Plus the better K imo (Lindell is so underrated). If there is a tiebreaker, its harder to kick in Buffalo than Chicago. Our coverage units are better. We have more depth at KR (altho Hester is just amazing), and the blocking teams are fairly even imo.

evans555
08-15-2008, 03:34 PM
as a bills fan


how can u not say Chicago has the best ST?
They've had the best for a few years now


Buffalo has a top-notch ST unit too. Id rank them 2nd in the NFL


So if you think Buffalo is 2nd best ST in the NFL

Why is it that outlandish that I called them 1st?

evans555
08-15-2008, 03:35 PM
we have the better punter by far imo. Plus the better K imo (Lindell is so underrated). If there is a tiebreaker, its harder to kick in Buffalo than Chicago. Our coverage units are better. We have more depth at KR (altho Hester is just amazing), and the blocking teams are fairly even imo.

Exactly.....but the common fans from other teams just base their decisions on the highlight reels of Hester they see

Gay Ork Wang
08-15-2008, 03:41 PM
Exactly.....but the common fans from other teams just base their decisions on the highlight reels of Hester they see
Hate on hester all u wont, he is just gonna return the hate

The Great Jonathan Vilma
08-15-2008, 03:58 PM
Exactly.....but the common fans from other teams just base their decisions on the highlight reels of Hester they see

get over the damn hester thing, seriously, u don't even know what you are talking about. His impact is undeniable. He takes kicks to the house on the regular. Obviously those will end up on ESPN, but considering the number of kicks that are made away from him or out of bounds that aren't shown on ESPN, i'd say he's doing pretty good.

You obviously are neglecting to provide the proper respect to Hester, or Cribbs for that matter, and are assuming that the people on these boards lack the knowledge and are as unintellegent with regards to football as you are.

Few have argued that the Bills aren't a top ST in the league, but your methods for providing any arguements consist of insults and a lack of stats to really back up your statements. You need to stop acting like your opinion is the one and only belief and have an actual discussion about the topic rather than presenting your opinion like there is no other way and like everyone else is attacking you.

It is obvious that you are what people would call a 'Bills homer' and that you aren't really someone worth including in a real 'discussion'.

Thanks for the enthusiasm though, 'Bud'

BufFan71
08-15-2008, 04:04 PM
So if you think Buffalo is 2nd best ST in the NFL

Why is it that outlandish that I called them 1st?

Because HEster is a better returner than both Terrence McGee and Roscoe Parrish
as much as i think Leodis is gonna be a star, i doubt he'll make as much impact returning the ball as Hester has.


We have a better Kicker, Punter, and more depth at the returner position

but, we dont know how our coverage units are gonna be after losing Sam Aiken, Mario Haggan, Josh Stamer, and Coy Wire



Chicago is number 1
not buffalo

drowe
08-15-2008, 04:16 PM
wow.

4 pages of Bills special teams crap and nobody has mentioned the Music City Miracle?

wtf.

Rob S
08-15-2008, 04:18 PM
wow.

4 pages of Bills special teams crap and nobody has mentioned the Music City Miracle?

wtf.

they mentioned wide right isnt that enough drowe haha. Anyways, STEVE TASKER ! haha

drowe
08-15-2008, 04:21 PM
they mentioned wide right isnt that enough drowe haha. Anyways, STEVE TASKER ! haha

NO! it's not good enough for me. everybody misses a 47 yard field goal from time to time, but not everybody lets a team laterall the ball 4 times across the field and return a kick for a playoff game winning TD.

Rob S
08-15-2008, 04:25 PM
NO! it's not good enough for me. everybody misses a 47 yard field goal from time to time, but not everybody lets a team laterall the ball 4 times across the field and return a kick for a playoff game winning TD.

true enough......at least the Titans could capitalize on our ST blunder haha

Sniper
08-15-2008, 04:28 PM
Yay for the first homer thread of the season! It's football time! You guys wait till Sav Rocca bombs a punt 65 yards. Then you're all going to see a homer thread! TEH EAGLEZ HAS DA GR8TIST PUNTAR EVERRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!1111!21!

Go_Eagles77
08-15-2008, 04:33 PM
lol Sniper, but seriously we may have the worst special teams unit in the league (unfortunately for DeSean Jackson would be a great returner on pretty much any other team if he had decent blocking.)

evans555
08-15-2008, 04:42 PM
get over the damn hester thing, seriously, u don't even know what you are talking about. His impact is undeniable. He takes kicks to the house on the regular. Obviously those will end up on ESPN, but considering the number of kicks that are made away from him or out of bounds that aren't shown on ESPN, i'd say he's doing pretty good.

You obviously are neglecting to provide the proper respect to Hester, or Cribbs for that matter, and are assuming that the people on these boards lack the knowledge and are as unintellegent with regards to football as you are.

Few have argued that the Bills aren't a top ST in the league, but your methods for providing any arguements consist of insults and a lack of stats to really back up your statements. You need to stop acting like your opinion is the one and only belief and have an actual discussion about the topic rather than presenting your opinion like there is no other way and like everyone else is attacking you.

It is obvious that you are what people would call a 'Bills homer' and that you aren't really someone worth including in a real 'discussion'.

Thanks for the enthusiasm though, 'Bud'


I believe I provided stats comparing both teams punter and kickers on page 2 if you care to read the whole thread

scottyboy
08-15-2008, 04:48 PM
Hate on hester all u wont, he is just gonna return the hate

it took 4 pages of a special teams thread before the obligatory return joke? come on dc! pick up the slack...

I bought Hester a box of chocolates on valentines day, all he did was return it

PalmerToCJ
08-15-2008, 04:48 PM
wow.

4 pages of Bills special teams crap and nobody has mentioned the Music City Miracle?

wtf.

Point taken.

http://www.bobrosato.com/content/photos/92021900-01.jpg

bearfan
08-15-2008, 05:02 PM
Bills P vs Bears P....Bills
Lindell vs Gould.... equal (check NFL.com, very similar stats, Gould attempts more field goals, but very similar)
Hester vs "three headed monster"...Hester
I dont know about the Bills coverage unit, but the Bears has been one of the best for the past few years.

Bills2083
08-15-2008, 05:05 PM
okay lets see

Robbie Gould plays in the windy city which makes it a lot harder for him




per http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/online/ccd/avgwind.html ....

Chicago...
-January: avg wind speed = 11.6
-February: avg wind speed = 11.4
-March: avg wind speed = 11.8
-April = 11.9
-May = 10.5
-June = 9.3
-July = 8.4
-August = 8.2
-September = 8.9
-October = 10.1
-November = 11.1
-December = 11.0
-Annually - 10.3

Buffalo...
-January = 14.0
-February = 13.3
-March = 13.1
-April = 12.3
-May = 11.4
-June = 10.8
-July = 10.2
-August = 9.7
-September = 10.2
-October = 11.1
-November = 12.6
-December = 13.1
-Annually = 11.8




just saying...

yourfavestoner
08-15-2008, 05:37 PM
So if you think Buffalo is 2nd best ST in the NFL

Why is it that outlandish that I called them 1st?

It's not outlandish. It's just that you were basically insinuating that E!SPN spoon feeds us our opinions and we're not capable of having thoughts for ourselves. That and there's the fact that nobody particularly cares about your opinion or the Bills special teams in the first place.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2008, 05:39 PM
Not to mention your point about having multiple returners is ******** and worthless. It makes no sense and nobody cares.

bearsfan_51
08-15-2008, 05:41 PM
per http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/online/ccd/avgwind.html ....

Chicago...
-January: avg wind speed = 11.6
-February: avg wind speed = 11.4
-March: avg wind speed = 11.8
-April = 11.9
-May = 10.5
-June = 9.3
-July = 8.4
-August = 8.2
-September = 8.9
-October = 10.1
-November = 11.1
-December = 11.0
-Annually - 10.3

Buffalo...
-January = 14.0
-February = 13.3
-March = 13.1
-April = 12.3
-May = 11.4
-June = 10.8
-July = 10.2
-August = 9.7
-September = 10.2
-October = 11.1
-November = 12.6
-December = 13.1
-Annually = 11.8




just saying...
Nice stats, but Soldier Field is literally on the lake. Ralph Wilson stadium is not. That does make a pretty significant difference.

No doubt those two, along with Cleveland, are probably the three hardest places to kick.

evans555
08-15-2008, 05:42 PM
Not to mention your point about having multiple returners is ******** and worthless. It makes no sense and nobody cares.

So dont read it...but instead you have dedicated the past 2 hours to posting about something that you "dont care about"

Way to pad the post count skip...dont quit your day job

iowatreat54
08-15-2008, 05:42 PM
It's not outlandish. It's just that you were basically insinuating that E!SPN spoon feeds us our opinions and we're not capable of having thoughts for ourselves. That and there's the fact that nobody particularly cares about your opinion or the Bills special teams in the first place.

but I like when people tell me what I think and how I made my opinions, otherwise how would I know what I think?

plus, I really enjoy your complete objectivity on the subject evans :rolleyes:

Gay Ork Wang
08-15-2008, 05:49 PM
How about Obama

yourfavestoner
08-15-2008, 05:49 PM
How about Obama

If I were a religious man, then I would think that he is the antichrist. But I'm not religious. Time will tell.

evans555
08-15-2008, 05:53 PM
It's not outlandish. It's just that you were basically insinuating that E!SPN spoon feeds us our opinions and we're not capable of having thoughts for ourselves. That and there's the fact that nobody particularly cares about your opinion or the Bills special teams in the first place.


So wait are you honestly trying to say ESPN dosnt spoon feed certain topics

Please

They do it with The Yankees and Red Sox in baseball. Meanwhile Anahiem gets little to no attention. They do it with Devin Hester. They do it with there "segements" of camp confidential which is always the same 5 teams: Dallas Cowboys, NE Pats, Chicago Bears, Green Bay Packers and Indy Colts.

Meanwhile there are plenty of other exciting storylines around the league with the AZ Cardinals, Buffalo Bills, Tennesee Titans etc

ESPN is a one sided network

Wootylicous
08-15-2008, 05:53 PM
Obama and antichrist! Lock this thread!

Wootylicous
08-15-2008, 05:56 PM
So wait are you honestly trying to say ESPN dosnt spoon feed certain topics

Please

They do it with The Yankees and Red Sox in baseball. Meanwhile Anahiem gets little to no attention. They do it with Devin Hester. They do it with there "segements" of camp confidential which is always the same 5 teams: Dallas Cowboys, NE Pats, Chicago Bears, Green Bay Packers and Indy Colts.

Meanwhile there are plenty of other exciting storylines around the league with the AZ Cardinals, Buffalo Bills, Tennesee Titans etc

ESPN is a one sided network

Yeah I mean who would be excited to see the best returner in the league ever. Clearly not me.

yourfavestoner
08-15-2008, 05:59 PM
So wait are you honestly trying to say ESPN dosnt spoon feed certain topics

Please

They do it with The Yankees and Red Sox in baseball. Meanwhile Anahiem gets little to no attention. They do it with Devin Hester. They do it with there "segements" of camp confidential which is always the same 5 teams: Dallas Cowboys, NE Pats, Chicago Bears, Green Bay Packers and Indy Colts.

Meanwhile there are plenty of other exciting storylines around the league with the AZ Cardinals, Buffalo Bills, Tennesee Titans etc

ESPN is a one sided network

No ****, Sherlock. All media networks focus on the teams that have the biggest markets, and, therefore bring in the biggest ratings. Talking about other teams is simply a waste of money for them. But just because they do that, doesn't mean that people here take everything that they say as gospel. Most people on this board actually disagree with most of the things E!SPN analysts are saying. E!SPN is made for the casual follower - NOT somebody who spends a few hours every day on the computer reading about football stuff.

SuperMcGee
08-15-2008, 06:00 PM
Bills P vs Bears P....Bills
Lindell vs Gould.... equal (check NFL.com, very similar stats, Gould attempts more field goals, but very similar)
Hester vs "three headed monster"...Hester
I dont know about the Bills coverage unit, but the Bears has been one of the best for the past few years.

Buffalo should be right up there with Chicago in coverage.
To give you an idea, going off of the most basic statistical rankings: The Bills have been top 5 in kickoff coverage every year since 2003, and last season we allowed the fewest yards-per-return on punts.
We have some guys to replace this year from our regular unit, but if there's one guy I trust in our organization, it's Bobby April.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
08-15-2008, 06:11 PM
I believe I provided stats comparing both teams punter and kickers on page 2 if you care to read the whole thread

i think i skipped that when you said the Bills kicker was superior because he had a 1 yard higher punting average......which if you know much, doesn't really mean anything. Throw me a net yardage stat and maybe it would have an impact. Sometimes distance isn't all that matters, with placement and direction being integral parts in making a really good kicker.

I'm not saying he isn't a good kicker, but your argument was weak.

I believe the most rediculous part that i was focusing on had to do with the 'three-headed returning monster' that you believe is so superior to Hester....

NY+Giants=NYG
08-15-2008, 06:17 PM
Where can i get those Videos?

I am not sure... I got access because I was a college coach. Most programs have a HUGE video library. So if I want to learn about run and shoot, so high level coach, has a 4 part video of it, from installing it to complicated stuff on it. So last season, I'd go in at 8 am everyday and sit there, and watch video after video of lectures from special teams to offensive systems to defense. All football teams have a huge library of info.

TheBuffaloBills
08-15-2008, 06:31 PM
We need to make a poll in this thread......

BTW


OMG Devin Hester iz da best cuz he has 100 speed in madden.....2 years in a row....

Crickett
08-15-2008, 06:32 PM
per http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/online/ccd/avgwind.html ....

Chicago...
-January: avg wind speed = 11.6
-February: avg wind speed = 11.4
-March: avg wind speed = 11.8
-April = 11.9
-May = 10.5
-June = 9.3
-July = 8.4
-August = 8.2
-September = 8.9
-October = 10.1
-November = 11.1
-December = 11.0
-Annually - 10.3

Buffalo...
-January = 14.0
-February = 13.3
-March = 13.1
-April = 12.3
-May = 11.4
-June = 10.8
-July = 10.2
-August = 9.7
-September = 10.2
-October = 11.1
-November = 12.6
-December = 13.1
-Annually = 11.8




just saying...

I wish I could find a video of the field goal kick by Gould that gets picked up by the wind and hooks so far right that it lands on the sidelines.

Bills2083
08-15-2008, 06:42 PM
Nice stats, but Soldier Field is literally on the lake. Ralph Wilson stadium is not. That does make a pretty significant difference.

No doubt those two, along with Cleveland, are probably the three hardest places to kick.


Yes, I understand that Soldier Field is a hard place to kick with their winds. But I have never been there so I cant say which one is worse. I'm sure some of the other guys who have said Soldier Field is harder to kick have never been to the Ralph. I'm just saying that the winds that are in Ralph Wilson are pretty fast too.

"The field of the stadium sits about fifty feet below the surrounding grade, and lends to the stadium’s reputation as being notoriously inhospitable for kickers. When the wind is blowing around the stadium it has its own wind patterns inside that change moment to moment, making it a football kickers nightmare. "

"Buffalo is one of the nation's windiest cities, and as a result, Ralph Wilson Stadium often is a difficult stadium for kickers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placekicker) to play in, with swirling winds that change direction rapidly. This is exacerbated by the design of the stadium. The main bowl of the stadium is fifty feet under ground level, while the upper deck stands above ground. The open end lies parallel to the direction of the prevailing winds, so that when the winds come in, they immediately drop down into the bowl, causing the stadium's signature wind patterns."

scottyboy
08-15-2008, 06:51 PM
ESPN(or as YFS so brilliantly came up with, E!SPN) also spoon fed me Eli was gonna be out 4 weeks with his shoulder injury, did I(or any other giants fans) believe that? no. you lose. game over man.

Sniper
08-15-2008, 06:57 PM
We need to make a poll in this thread......

BTW


OMG Devin Hester iz da best cuz he has 100 speed in madden.....2 years in a row....

Or ya know, since he's going to shatter the all-time return TD record. Either way.

bigbluedefense
08-15-2008, 07:00 PM
um.......no.

TheBuffaloBills
08-15-2008, 07:04 PM
Or ya know, since he's going to shatter the all-time return TD record. Either way.

Hey what happend to Dante Hall.... I am sure many said the same about him.... And thats a fact.

Sniper
08-15-2008, 07:11 PM
Hey what happend to Dante Hall.... I am sure many said the same about him.... And thats a fact.

Dante Hall has 12 career returns for TDs....in 8 years.

Devin Hester has 11 career returns for TDs....in 2 years.

bigbluedefense
08-15-2008, 07:12 PM
while this guy came across the wrong way, he does bring up a very valid point that the Bills have a very underrated and good special teams unit, all across the board.

but still, Hester>>>>>>>>>>>>>

not to mention the Bears have a really good ST unit besides Hester as well.

TheBuffaloBills
08-15-2008, 07:19 PM
Dante Hall has 12 career returns for TDs....in 8 years.

Devin Hester has 11 career returns for TDs....in 2 years.


Well Dante blew up for like 2 years and broke the record for 4 in a season..... People all thought he would shatter the record

Bills2083
08-15-2008, 07:58 PM
why in the HELL would you quote wind numbers from march through august and pretend like it makes any bloody difference in a discussion about football? do any of you ******* people think before posting this crap, or do you actually think it's remotely insightful or relevant?
why is it a big deal

TheBuffaloBills
08-15-2008, 08:02 PM
why in the HELL would you quote wind numbers from march through august and pretend like it makes any bloody difference in a discussion about football? do any of you ******* people think before posting this crap, or do you actually think it's remotely insightful or relevant?

I believe Renji was saying Chicago is called the windy city, therefore the kickers stats suffered because of the wind...... Bills2083, simply posted the average wind mph during football season to show Buffalo is actually windier to unprove Renji's point...... I think you are slightly over-reacting to a countered point.

Bengalsrocket
08-15-2008, 08:58 PM
I believe Renji was saying Chicago is called the windy city, therefore the kickers stats suffered because of the wind...... Bills2083, simply posted the average wind mph during football season to show Buffalo is actually windier to unprove Renji's point...... I think you are slightly over-reacting to a countered point.

Isn't Chicago's stadium like right on the lake though? I think the average wind of a city that big would be a little bit less than the wind that the stadium more than likely gets if its on the lake.

TheBuffaloBills
08-15-2008, 09:06 PM
Isn't Chicago's stadium like right on the lake though? I think the average wind of a city that big would be a little bit less than the wind that the stadium more than likely gets if its on the lake.

This is from Bills2083 post a few pages back about the Ralph


"The field of the stadium sits about fifty feet below the surrounding grade, and lends to the stadium’s reputation as being notoriously inhospitable for kickers. When the wind is blowing around the stadium it has its own wind patterns inside that change moment to moment, making it a football kickers nightmare. "

"Buffalo is one of the nation's windiest cities, and as a result, Ralph Wilson Stadium often is a difficult stadium for kickers to play in, with swirling winds that change direction rapidly. This is exacerbated by the design of the stadium. The main bowl of the stadium is fifty feet under ground level, while the upper deck stands above ground. The open end lies parallel to the direction of the prevailing winds, so that when the winds come in, they immediately drop down into the bowl, causing the stadium's signature wind patterns."

Bengalsrocket
08-15-2008, 09:13 PM
oh wow, silly me - I guess I should have read over the whole thread more :(

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-15-2008, 10:12 PM
Statistically the Bears have had the best special teams the last few years now, not just because of Hester but because of our coverage teams and kicking game. It has nothing to do with ESPN, it has to do with statistical analysis, which is a bit stronger of an argument than one video.

I also think it's funny that you criticize Hester for being a one-dimensional returner. What dimension do you want him to run? Sideways? Having multiple returners doesn't mean much when you only have one person to kick the ball to.

Anyway, come back with some actual statistics or I'll assume you're twelve years old and ignore you henceforth.

My e-PhD in physics qualifies me to make the following statement: Devin Hester is a multi-dimensional returner. I have calculated that his returns are in the fifth dimension, and he has come staggeringly close to reaching the sixth. That is why he gets a 100 speed in Madden and no one can touch him. He teleports from one spot to the endzone. Us seeing him is all an illusion created by the fact that we cannot see into a further dimension yet something must take his place in the physical world.

Dam8610
08-15-2008, 10:31 PM
My e-PhD in physics qualifies me to make the following statement: Devin Hester is a multi-dimensional returner. I have calculated that his returns are in the fifth dimension, and he has come staggeringly close to reaching the sixth. That is why he gets a 100 speed in Madden and no one can touch him. He teleports from one spot to the endzone. Us seeing him is all an illusion created by the fact that we cannot see into a further dimension yet something must take his place in the physical world.

Then what about the times he gets tackled?

Gay Ork Wang
08-15-2008, 10:33 PM
Then what about the times he gets tackled?
He lets u tackle him

bearsfan_51
08-15-2008, 10:33 PM
Then what about the times he gets tackled?

That's the 4th dimension.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-15-2008, 10:35 PM
Then what about the times he gets tackled?

We only think he gets tackled. In my years of online study, I have learned that the human mind is a very tricky thing. We don't want to believe that Devin Hester is in another dimension while he returns. We don't want to believe that he is immortal. We don't want to believe that we are essentially in a fishbowl as our alien overlords study us. The human mind will not allow Hester to score every single time.

Although my above facts count for most of the times, the other times he is tackled can be explained in my prior theory. Hester himself, does not even realise he is in the upper end of the fifth dimension. He, for whatever reason, does not manually turn his abilities on or off. Sometimes he finds a wormhole that transcends space and time, and others he does not.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-15-2008, 10:36 PM
That's the 4th dimension.

That too.yeahyeah

PoopSandwich
08-16-2008, 12:44 AM
I honestly think there are at least 2 ST units better than the Bills...

Bears and Browns...

Why? They have the two best returners in the league, the Bears are solid every where else, as is Cleveland, you take the 2 best returners in the league and are solid every where else, then its pretty damn hard to argue against it.

bearfan
08-16-2008, 01:13 AM
I agree with the above, and while we should be talking about mostly the overall team..the thread is stating that because Bills are 3 deep, they are the best.Well guess what.. when your team has its KR/PR gameplanned against OR your KR/PR changes special teams throughout the league and how some teams percieve players, then we can talk ;)

Addict
08-16-2008, 03:23 AM
wasn't Chicago called the windy city because the people there are full of hot air?

BufFan71
08-16-2008, 07:22 AM
I honestly think there are at least 2 ST units better than the Bills...

Bears and Browns...

Why? They have the two best returners in the league, the Bears are solid every where else, as is Cleveland, you take the 2 best returners in the league and are solid every where else, then its pretty damn hard to argue against it.

i dont agree (might be homerish)

Clev has Josh Cribbs. Have they had a top 5 Special Teams since like 2002?


whereas buffalo has Roscoe Parrish at PR and McGee at KR (cribbs is a bit better than t-mac) but has been a top 5 unit for like 5 years in a row

Addict
08-16-2008, 08:07 AM
i dont agree (might be homerish)

Clev has Josh Cribbs. Have they had a top 5 Special Teams since like 2002?


whereas buffalo has Roscoe Parrish at PR and McGee at KR (cribbs is a bit better than t-mac) but has been a top 5 unit for like 5 years in a row

wow wow wow. He was saying there are at least two better RIGHT NOW, not since '02.

scottyboy
08-16-2008, 08:15 AM
wow wow wow. He was saying there are at least two better RIGHT NOW, not since '02.

nobody reads here. come on addict, you should know that. only 23% of posters here know what reading comprehension is...

Addict
08-16-2008, 09:02 AM
nobody reads here. come on addict, you should know that. only 23% of posters here know what reading comprehension is...

I wasn't aware of the exact percentages. How did you come to this number?

scottyboy
08-16-2008, 09:04 AM
I wasn't aware of the exact percentages. How did you come to this number?

because 23 is everywhere!!!!!

and it's Leonard's college number...

and I somehow got it incoporated with Caleb Hanie...

Addict
08-16-2008, 09:06 AM
because 23 is everywhere!!!!!

and it's Leonard's college number...

and I somehow got it incoporated with Caleb Hanie...

say no more, I understand completely.

Bills2083
08-16-2008, 09:58 AM
i fail to see how how the wind differential in non-NFL seasons has anything to do with anything. i presume you'll be the one adding in the missing information?



no, he showed the wind in non-nfl seasons, proving absolutely nothing. and i called him on it. be honest in your crappy stats, or quit posting them.

actually, since you won't do even that much, at least quit (mis-)representing them. that should be easy enough, even for a group of people who can't follow the nfl for longer than it take for the bills to be eliminated from the season. so sorry your garbage team will be canadien next year because you can't support the second best (at best) special teams unit (excuse me while i giggle) in the league. way to go buffalo, you're even worse than the CFL.

Fine, here's the info that you want. It even furthers my point...
Buffalo's average: 12.38 mph
Chicago's average: 10.63 mph


While Buffalo's not the richest of areas, we were able to sell over 54,000 season tickets. You should be "sorry" for Jacksonville who cant even sell out a home game. Also, the Bills can't be in Toronto next year. Do you think they're going to build a stadium in less than a year? Are they going to play in the Rogers Centre while the Blue Jays are playing there? Rogers had to give away 17,000 tickets to get people into the seats vs. the Steelers, costing him $5 million.

TimD
08-16-2008, 10:00 AM
In terms of return units

Bears
Browns
Jets/Bills (tie)

truebillsfan
08-16-2008, 03:03 PM
Well if you consider that the Bills offense was 30th in the league in TDs scored last year... that kinda means the OL was pretty bad. Not blaming the OL for everything, but it was obvious that they weren't confused as being a demolition crew.

actually that couldnt be further from the truth. the o-line last year gave up a franchise low 26 sacks. the run blocking was suspect but this is by no means a bad o-line. bad playcalling, shuffling of qb's, no #2 wr to draw coverage away from lee evans were way bigger problems that contributed having the 30th ranked offense

jballa838
08-16-2008, 06:05 PM
didn't Marshawn run for 1300?

SuperMcGee
08-16-2008, 06:14 PM
didn't Marshawn run for 1300?

1100, in 13 games, with probably the most rushes-per-game in the league

Race for the Heisman
08-17-2008, 12:01 AM
I think its safe to say with the emergence of Bennett the Bears have re-claimed their briefly lost claim to best special teams in the NFL...

yourfavestoner
08-17-2008, 04:12 AM
Hahahahaha

eaglesfan_45
08-17-2008, 04:15 AM
I think its safe to say with the emergence of Bennett the Bears have re-claimed their briefly lost claim to best special teams in the NFL...

QFT lol :D

Addict
08-17-2008, 06:42 AM
lol who changed the thread title?

Sniper
08-17-2008, 07:25 AM
lol who changed the thread title?

Haha I don't know but it's hilarious.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-17-2008, 09:36 PM
Hahaha. Props to whoever did that.

niel89
08-17-2008, 09:48 PM
hester is one dimensional. all he tries to do is score touchdowns constantly.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-17-2008, 10:42 PM
hester is one dimensional. all he tries to do is score touchdowns constantly.

Damn him trying to help his team. Scrub.


You obviously haven't read my earlier post, a snippet of my big ass essay that I wrote to get my e-PhD

drowe
08-18-2008, 08:17 AM
wasn't Chicago called the windy city because the people there are full of hot air?

no silly. it's called that because the cubs blow and the bears suck.

Addict
08-18-2008, 08:23 AM
no silly. it's called that because the cubs blow and the bears suck.

that or people from Illinois love beans.