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Splat
08-22-2008, 11:13 AM
Chargers LB Merriman has ligament damage (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=txchargersmerriman&prov=st&type=lgns)

SAN DIEGO (TICKER) óSan Diego Chargers (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/sdg/;_ylt=AhvSN2qJEOIshDAFmIc9iWcLubYF) Pro Bowl linebacker Shawne Merriman (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7188/;_ylt=AmPeUooUFnG6X_RBlm2UhhILubYF) reportedly has ligament damage in his left knee.

Merriman visited noted sports surgeon Dr. James Andrews on Wednesday to have his knee examined and told the North County Times, via an e-mail, about the results.

ď(Itís) a loose ligament,Ē Merriman told the newspaper. ď(Iím) waiting get more info on what I need to do.Ē

Merriman has not participated in practice since playing the preseason opener on August 9.

Sources close to the three-time Pro Bowler claimed he was having trouble getting rid of the pain in the surgically repaired knee and he took a took a helmet to the knee earlier this month, which likely didnít help the situation.

Merriman tied for sixth in the league with 12 1/2 sacks last year and has 39 1/2 in his brief career.

nrk
08-22-2008, 11:28 AM
A helmet to the knee would suck so bad.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-22-2008, 11:41 AM
It depends on how loose the ligament is, but there's almost certainly ways to get around it. I've read some thing suggesting that there's concern for Merriman's ability to continue playing football, but I don't buy those yet.

BeerBaron
08-22-2008, 11:43 AM
Thats a tough blow to Merriman and the Chargers if he can't go... I'm guessing a "loose ligament" isn't as bad as something being torn but it can't be good either...

Paranoidmoonduck
08-22-2008, 11:46 AM
To be fair, some sources are reporting a torn PCL while some are reporting a loose ligament. The general consensus I do hear is that Merriman's best shot to come back 100% is to get re-constructive surgery and miss all of 2008.

bantx
08-22-2008, 11:47 AM
yeah this is bad news for us, i heard merriman might just get minor surgery enough for him to play this season and then see what happens after that, hes already spoken to 2 doctors about it and he said hes not talking to them no more and made his decision. Hes heading back to san diego to talk with the team about it and we will see what happens. If it gets worse i wouldnt want him to play on it, dont want the chance of him making it worse. But we will see how bad it really is.

A Perfect Score
08-22-2008, 11:55 AM
i just ******* draft the San Diego defense in my big fantasy league...why couldnt this have been leaked like 4 days ago...DAMMIT!

SuperKevin
08-22-2008, 11:56 AM
Thankfully for them Shaun Phillips isn't exactly a slouch on the other side. They really need a healthy Merriman if they wish to contend for the Super Bowl though.

bantx
08-22-2008, 11:58 AM
i just ******* draft the San Diego defense in my big fantasy league...why couldnt this have been leaked like 4 days ago...DAMMIT!

Hopefully our defense will still play with the same intensity but we have other players too

bantx
08-22-2008, 12:01 PM
oh yeah and most likely Jyles Tucker will be filling in for him if Merriman does sit out this season, he replaced him last year for 3 games and had 3.5 sacks with 12 tackles.

SuperKevin
08-22-2008, 12:02 PM
Luckily the 3-4 Rush linebacker seems to be one of the easiest positions to fill in the NFL. I wonder if this means former USD All American DE Eric Bakhtiari will make the team

doingthisinsteadofwork
08-22-2008, 12:16 PM
To be fair, some sources are reporting a torn PCL while some are reporting a loose ligament. The general consensus I do hear is that Merriman's best shot to come back 100% is to get re-constructive surgery and miss all of 2008.Damn what a shame that'd be.:)

Cribbs>Hester
08-22-2008, 12:24 PM
I never like to see a guy get injured, and I was even a fan of Cleveland trading down to land Merriman a few years back, but he's kind of getting what he deserves.

It is a proven fact that Steriods are harmful to joints and the tendons and ligaments working to stabalize those joints. If he were playing by the rules he might have stronger and more stable ligaments.

I hope this doesn't ruin his career like some are saying, but if it does then Merriman should stand up like a man, admit he made a mistake and make it a positive. He can use this to teach young athletes the downfalls to using steriods. Hey, the David Boston and Shawn Merriman pep talk!!!

He could have always just taken a nasty shot that even the strongest of ligaments wouldn't hold up against, but for the purpose of steriod awarness those young athletes don't need to know that part.

Addict
08-22-2008, 12:30 PM
Damn that really sucks for the Chargers... I hope he'll be allright.

TheBuffaloBills
08-22-2008, 12:35 PM
Well Mark Schlereth was saying if he doesnt do the surgery, his career would be shorter than if he got the surgery done.....

It still stinks for that defense... I give Merriman the best of luck

CC.SD
08-22-2008, 01:44 PM
This is lame, but I don't think it's all that bad because...

A. Probably not going to keep Merriman out for the stretch run, which is really what this Charger team is focusing on. Let him rehab it through the season.

B. We have a ton of OLB depth; Jyles Tucker is a beast already, and guys like Marques Harris, Antwan Applewhite and others can compliment Shaun Phillips pretty well too. Carlos Polk, Tim Dobbins, Brandon Siler and Anthony Waters have all logged snaps at OLB too and not embarrassed themselves.

C. God damnit, this sucks anyway. The injury was caused on a dirty revenge hit by Mawae after Merriman tapped Vince Young and VY proceeded to flop to the ground for five minutes before springing up and being completely fine.

Titans also were the team that injured Rivers initially, during the regular season. They also screwed up Gates' toe in the playoffs when someone speared him while he was on the ground.


Basically I don't think anyone can blame me for thinking the Titans are complete assholes.

WMD
08-22-2008, 01:47 PM
Damn. Merriman is the man. Also, I have the Chargers Defense in both of my fantasy leagues. They should still be good though.

Primetime21
08-22-2008, 02:12 PM
They also screwed up Gates' toe in the playoffs when someone speared him while he was on the ground.

How do you get your toe messed up when you get speared.

T-RICH49
08-22-2008, 02:15 PM
I never like to see a guy get injured, and I was even a fan of Cleveland trading down to land Merriman a few years back, but he's kind of getting what he deserves.

It is a proven fact that Steriods are harmful to joints and the tendons and ligaments working to stabalize those joints. If he were playing by the rules he might have stronger and more stable ligaments.

I hope this doesn't ruin his career like some are saying, but if it does then Merriman should stand up like a man, admit he made a mistake and make it a positive. He can use this to teach young athletes the downfalls to using steriods. Hey, the David Boston and Shawn Merriman pep talk!!!

He could have always just taken a nasty shot that even the strongest of ligaments wouldn't hold up against, but for the purpose of steriod awarness those young athletes don't need to know that part.


he basically ended Priest Holmes career.so I don't feel that bad for him

umphrey
08-22-2008, 02:27 PM
ESPN was reporting a ligament tear this morning. The Chargers want him to play, they didn't mention what Merriman wants to do. I don't see how he could play successfully with a torn ligament. Maybe they are just planning to pump him full of cortizone for the year and cut his career in half.

Cribbs>Hester
08-22-2008, 02:32 PM
ESPN was reporting a ligament tear this morning. The Chargers want him to play, they didn't mention what Merriman wants to do. I don't see how he could play successfully with a torn ligament. Maybe they are just planning to pump him full of cortizone for the year and cut his career in half.

One of my high school teammates played the last 11 games of the season with a torn ACL...Meriman only has a torn PCL. It was the second time in 3 years he had torn his ACL, it was our senior year, so he slapped a brace on for the year and finished it out leading us in sacks and all the way to the state semi's. I'm sure Meriman can do it if he wanted, but the long term effects are obviously going to be much worse than getting reconstrutive surgery and sitting out a year.

BeerBaron
08-22-2008, 02:42 PM
ESPN was reporting a ligament tear this morning. The Chargers want him to play, they didn't mention what Merriman wants to do. I don't see how he could play successfully with a torn ligament. Maybe they are just planning to pump him full of cortizone for the year and cut his career in half.

aye, there are plenty of instances, at least in college that i know of, where players still played at least decently on torn up knees.

and I guess it shouldn't surprise anyone that the Chargers want him to go....they had Rivers go last year on his bad knee and Gates on his toe too. That was a playoff game against and undefeated team but it shows the Chargers are more worried about winning right now than these players long term futures

leroyisgod
08-22-2008, 02:47 PM
Have the surgery and be done for the year. Don't risk any long term damage.

bantx
08-22-2008, 03:43 PM
yeah a knee injury can be worked with but i dont want merriman to further hurt himself, but itll be up to him.

eaglesfan_45
08-22-2008, 03:45 PM
Steroids weaken joints and ligaments and he might be to big for his knees, just a thought as to why things have gone downhill with his injury.

Burns336
08-22-2008, 04:00 PM
This is lame, but I don't think it's all that bad because...

A. Probably not going to keep Merriman out for the stretch run, which is really what this Charger team is focusing on. Let him rehab it through the season.

B. We have a ton of OLB depth; Jyles Tucker is a beast already, and guys like Marques Harris, Antwan Applewhite and others can compliment Shaun Phillips pretty well too. Carlos Polk, Tim Dobbins, Brandon Siler and Anthony Waters have all logged snaps at OLB too and not embarrassed themselves.

C. God damnit, this sucks anyway. The injury was caused on a dirty revenge hit by Mawae after Merriman tapped Vince Young and VY proceeded to flop to the ground for five minutes before springing up and being completely fine.

Titans also were the team that injured Rivers initially, during the regular season. They also screwed up Gates' toe in the playoffs when someone speared him while he was on the ground.


Basically I don't think anyone can blame me for thinking the Titans are complete assholes.

Wishful thinking, but it definitely is THAT bad.

No Merriman means more Double teams for others. This will go onto hinder guys like Castillo and Phillips when they see Merrimans double team's rolled to their side.

Castillo has been banged up his whole career and is again this year, Merriman is banged up, Gates is banged up, and LT/Rives are both coming off of knee surgeries.

Jyles Tucker is not beast. Marquees Harris is a dork and should stop doing gymnastics before he blows out his knee too. and No one has even heard of Applewhite.

bantx
08-22-2008, 04:06 PM
Wishful thinking, but it definitely is THAT bad.

No Merriman means more Double teams for others. This will go onto hinder guys like Castillo and Phillips when they see Merrimans double team's rolled to their side.

Castillo has been banged up his whole career and is again this year, Merriman is banged up, Gates is banged up, and LT/Rives are both coming off of knee surgeries.

Jyles Tucker is not beast. Marquees Harris is a dork and should stop doing gymnastics before he blows out his knee too. and No one has even heard of Applewhite.

Jamal Williams and Stephen cooper will come down the middle then :]

and yeah ill agree tucker is not a beast but hes come in for merriman before and in those games hes come out with 3.5 sacks and 12 tackles 11 of those tackles being solo tackles, tucker will fill merrimans spot. And you didnt mention anthony waters which he might be seeing some time playing OLB also

steelersfan43
08-22-2008, 05:39 PM
Im glad, steroid man deserves it.

bored of education
08-22-2008, 06:07 PM
Merriman to Miami in 2010!

M.O.T.H.
08-22-2008, 06:20 PM
I think Tucker can more than hold his own...obviously he's not a Merriman but, the guy can play. He's really been playing great ball this preseason...he really impressed against the Cowboys, hawking down Felix Jones a couple of times and showing off that great pass rush ability and he picked up a sack and forced a fumble against the Rams this past week against the 1st teamers. He may just turn into a pretty special player for them.

SchizophrenicBatman
08-22-2008, 07:18 PM
As a Panthers fan, I'm honestly more interested in McNeill's injury for week 1 (Jyles Tucker or whoever fills in will probably still destroy us). It's listed as a neck but is there any possibility it's related to his back issues that caused him to slip in the draft?

Xonraider
08-22-2008, 07:48 PM
Basically I don't think anyone can blame me for thinking the Titans are complete assholes.

Football is not for girls. You hit someone expect to get hit harder. That's football.

ATLDirtyBirds
08-22-2008, 09:30 PM
That's a shame. Merriman is a complete beast.

Burns336
08-22-2008, 09:36 PM
I personally have no sympathy for Merriman. I lost all respect after the roid deal. Plus he is just an asshole in person. He acts so hollywood at the club -- he dusted off my roomate like he was nothing even though he was a charger fan.

Other guys like Vincent Jackson, Marcus McNiell, Malcolm Floyd, and Kris Dielman acted like people who appreciate the fans. Even took shots with us. Merriman is just a madonna prick.

awfullyquiet
08-22-2008, 09:55 PM
Steroids weaken joints and ligaments and he might be to big for his knees, just a thought as to why things have gone downhill with his injury.

i was actually going to say that. i would +rep you, but, alas. that looks moot.

CC.SD
08-22-2008, 10:35 PM
How do you get your toe messed up when you get speared.

You start by watching the games in the playoffs.

CC.SD
08-22-2008, 10:37 PM
Football is not for girls. You hit someone expect to get hit harder. That's football.

Intentionally targeting players isn't football except in Oakland. Wow what a coincidence.

Note to self; tequila apparently makes me bitchy. adios.

Xonraider
08-23-2008, 02:12 AM
Intentionally targeting players isn't football except in Oakland. Wow what a coincidence.

Note to self; tequila apparently makes me bitchy. adios.

Lol... When did I mention teams as a whole? If a player gets hit on a late hit or blindsided he IS going to want to kill that guy. When they hit your QB, its worse..

Before you blame Oakland, learn how to read... or atleast sing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx03Fj22Iq8

pfft LMAO

defensiveback23
08-23-2008, 02:13 AM
As a Panthers fan, I'm honestly more interested in McNeill's injury for week 1 (Jyles Tucker or whoever fills in will probably still destroy us). It's listed as a neck but is there any possibility it's related to his back issues that caused him to slip in the draft?

McNeill suffered a stinger in practice and has been out since then. It hasn't been reported at all, or even really speculated, that it has anything to do with his back. His back has been healthy as far as I know since he was drafted.

The craziest part of all this was reported by the Chargers' beat writer Kevin Acee in his article in the Union Tribune today.

"But this breach of perspective presents as good an opportunity as any to talk about a reality many Chargers fans will find difficult to comprehend. Take this to the bank: Merriman will not be a Charger after his contract expires at the end of the 2009 season. "

Acee is almost never wrong when it comes to issues concerning the team but this is definitely one time I hope he is.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20080822-9999-1s22chargers.html

DMWSackMachine
08-23-2008, 03:16 PM
Well, what is the latest here, then? What are the chances he misses the whole year? Could he play at nearly 100% for the season if he chooses to play? If not, what level would he be playing at? If so, what would the long-term ramifications be?

Any news would be appreciated.

SuperKevin
08-23-2008, 03:26 PM
McNeill suffered a stinger in practice and has been out since then. It hasn't been reported at all, or even really speculated, that it has anything to do with his back. His back has been healthy as far as I know since he was drafted.

The craziest part of all this was reported by the Chargers' beat writer Kevin Acee in his article in the Union Tribune today.

"But this breach of perspective presents as good an opportunity as any to talk about a reality many Chargers fans will find difficult to comprehend. Take this to the bank: Merriman will not be a Charger after his contract expires at the end of the 2009 season. "

Acee is almost never wrong when it comes to issues concerning the team but this is definitely one time I hope he is.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20080822-9999-1s22chargers.html


From an on the field standpoint I can see them not re-signing Merriman because he's a liability downfield. Factor in that 3-4 OLB is the easiest position to replace through the draft and it'd be an easy decision.

From a marketing standpoint it'd be horrendous as he's the face of the defense right now.

Unbiased
08-23-2008, 03:28 PM
Merriman couldn't have planned this any better. Now he has time to continue his MTV acting career.

LonghornsLegend
08-23-2008, 03:30 PM
You start by watching the games in the playoffs.

The hit on Rivers and especially Gates was far from dirty, so I don't know where your going with that...Gates caught the ball and nobody had touched him yet, he barely was hit hard, he just had his toe planted at an awkward angled and it jammed into the ground, hardly the defenses' fault...If this had happened to Ware, I would be willing to risk one season to have him healthy for his career, I know how these injuries can go from bad to worse in no time.

Dex187
08-23-2008, 03:57 PM
Lol... When did I mention teams as a whole? If a player gets hit on a late hit or blindsided he IS going to want to kill that guy. When they hit your QB, its worse..

Before you blame Oakland, learn how to read... or atleast sing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx03Fj22Iq8

pfft LMAO


SD fans are so amusing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2zrJja30zw

Splat
08-23-2008, 04:30 PM
Well, what is the latest here, then? What are the chances he misses the whole year? Could he play at nearly 100% for the season if he chooses to play? If not, what level would he be playing at? If so, what would the long-term ramifications be?

Any news would be appreciated.

ESPN has been saying he has 3 options.

1.Just play on it and hope for the best.

2.Have a minor surgery and just miss a few games but would more than likely have to have another surgery in the off season.

3.Have the complete surgery and miss the whole season.

No word as of yet which option he will take and this is coming from ESPN so take it for what its worth.

LonghornsLegend
08-23-2008, 05:16 PM
I've been hearing its career threatening more then they originally thought, and if he plays on it then it could jeapordize his career...I'm honestly surprised Rivers came away from his injury as good as he did because I thought it would be alot worse.


To put myself in the place of a Charger fan, if this were happening with Ware I would want him to just miss the entire season, I wouldn't want him out there with guys looking to cheap shot him, and then you lose him for an extended period of time.

ATLDirtyBirds
08-23-2008, 05:18 PM
If I'm Merriman, I sit it out. If I'm a Chargers fan? I'd want him to flush it out, miss a couple of games early, then play. Oh, yeah. And if I'm and OT and he plays this year. I'd cut the hell out of him.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-23-2008, 05:50 PM
I personally have no sympathy for Merriman. I lost all respect after the roid deal. Plus he is just an asshole in person. He acts so hollywood at the club -- he dusted off my roomate like he was nothing even though he was a charger fan.

Other guys like Vincent Jackson, Marcus McNiell, Malcolm Floyd, and Kris Dielman acted like people who appreciate the fans. Even took shots with us. Merriman is just a madonna prick.

I agree.. The NFL fan perception is that he is a total scum bag, and cheated by taking roids. Karma is a tough thing to swallow, but I feel alittle bad, but you reap what you sow.

Splat
08-23-2008, 05:56 PM
There was some talk that the SD team doctor told him he was fine to play and the other doctor he saw told him he should not even be practicing let alone playing.

I don't know how much truth there is to that so don't hold me to it but they had a beat writer for SD on ESPN the way he talked SD was going to let SM walk when he was a FA.

I find that hard to believe myself but if true it sounds like they wanted him to just play on it and then when he was a FA it would be some other teams problem.

Now before some SD fan blasts me I'm not saying this is 100% true no one can really know for sure but kinda sounds fishy.

Splat
08-23-2008, 06:21 PM
Update not looking good.

Chargers LB Merriman has two torn ligaments (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=txchargersmerriman&prov=st&type=lgns)

Addict
08-23-2008, 06:26 PM
Update not looking good.

Chargers LB Merriman has two torn ligaments (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=txchargersmerriman&prov=st&type=lgns)

damn that sucks hard. If that's true I'm guessing he goes on IR

eaglesfan_45
08-23-2008, 06:30 PM
If Caddilac Williams can make it back (which it looks like he will) with his injury then Shawne can make it back. Caddy's injury was much worse.

Addict
08-23-2008, 06:31 PM
If Caddilac Williams can make it back (which it looks like he will) with his injury then Shawne can make it back. Caddy's injury was much worse.

took well over a season though.

yo123
08-23-2008, 06:33 PM
If Caddilac Williams can make it back (which it looks like he will) with his injury then Shawne can make it back. Caddy's injury was much worse.

But who knows if he'll be the same player. Isn't he like 3rd string right now?

bantx
08-23-2008, 06:34 PM
Im really hoping merriman can pull through this injury, he should get the reconstructed surgery as soon as possible. Deal with the problem now and hopefully be ready by next year. I was watching a interview they had with norv and he was talking like he knew merriman would be back by the regular season, i dont know if he knew it was 2 ligaments or not but i hope thye dont push him to play

Addict
08-23-2008, 06:37 PM
Im really hoping merriman can pull through this injury, he should get the reconstructed surgery as soon as possible. Deal with the problem now and hopefully be ready by next year. I was watching a interview they had with norv and he was talking like he knew merriman would be back by the regular season, i dont know if he knew it was 2 ligaments or not but i hope thye dont push him to play

I doubt they're willing to risk Merriman's future on one season. Sure it's a 'win now' league, but the long term does come into play.

nobodyinparticular
08-23-2008, 06:44 PM
Update not looking good.

Chargers LB Merriman has two torn ligaments (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=txchargersmerriman&prov=st&type=lgns)

I was just going to post that.

"Merriman
Shawne Merriman revealed Saturday that his career could be over. In addition to a torn PCL, Merriman has a torn LCL in his left knee.
His knee requires extensive reconstructive surgery. Perhaps Merriman will chance it and play this year, but that would be foolish. His contract is up after the 2009 season and if he has the procedure, Merriman could try continuing his career afterwards. He'd risk more damage by playing on the knee in 2008. He needs to be removed from IDP draft boards. Aug. 23 - 6:13 pm et"

Yikes. Two reconstructive knee surgeries on the horizon. He should not play another snap this season--practice, preseason or otherwise. If I'm Merriman, I'm already on my way to the OR with Dr. Andrews by my side to get that first surgery out of the way. If I'm A.J. Smith, I'm ordering that to happen. If I'm Spanos, I'm ordering Smith to order that to happen.

As a Charger fan, player, coach, FO guy, I'm just hoping that we haven't wasted too much time dinking around with this over the last few months so that I can get Merriman back to full health by the time that next season starts, or at the very least for the stretch run of 2009. And I hope that, in the mean time, Rivers, LT and Gates heal and someone steps up enough in that other spot, whether it's Jyles Tucker or someone else, to allow us to still have a shot at the Big Show this winter.

CC.SD
08-23-2008, 08:00 PM
McNeill suffered a stinger in practice and has been out since then. It hasn't been reported at all, or even really speculated, that it has anything to do with his back. His back has been healthy as far as I know since he was drafted.

The craziest part of all this was reported by the Chargers' beat writer Kevin Acee in his article in the Union Tribune today.

"But this breach of perspective presents as good an opportunity as any to talk about a reality many Chargers fans will find difficult to comprehend. Take this to the bank: Merriman will not be a Charger after his contract expires at the end of the 2009 season. "

Acee is almost never wrong when it comes to issues concerning the team but this is definitely one time I hope he is.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20080822-9999-1s22chargers.html

Acee also said "take it to the bank" when he talked about how Sproles had no shot to make the team. He's not super accurate; just better than Prisco.

Merriman going down sucks, but I still believe the Chargers will have a dominant D...Tucker IS beastly, he just has to prove it over a season now, no small task.

scottyboy
08-23-2008, 09:53 PM
Acee also said "take it to the bank" when he talked about how Sproles had no shot to make the team. He's not super accurate; just better than Prisco.

Merriman going down sucks, but I still believe the Chargers will have a dominant D...Tucker IS beastly, he just has to prove it over a season now, no small task.

you're best defensive player is down for maybe season and perhaps career. That kinda hinders that chances of your D being dominant..

Geo
08-23-2008, 09:55 PM
Career threatening? How the heck did he injure his knee in the first place? This story is getting crazier by the day.

WMD
08-23-2008, 10:10 PM
Damn. That sucks. I hope everything turns out okay with him.

Mr.Regular
08-23-2008, 11:17 PM
Wow, bummer.... I hope he can play again, hes fun to watch. If not, he seems to want to have a career in broadcasting and on television, and Im sure he'll get a gig somewhere.

Saints-Tigers
08-24-2008, 01:10 AM
Steroids or not, or even if people think he's a dick, I don't wish injury on anyone, I think he should shut it down, and keep his playing career out of harm's way.

bored of education
08-24-2008, 01:23 AM
Damn that sucks

Average OT LB
08-24-2008, 01:27 AM
As a big charger fan, it hurts to read these headlines. I cringe ever time i watch espn because of the bottom line... as much as i hate to say it Merriman's injury seems significant enough that i would rather him miss the season and be healthy than play and further injury himself.

As for the rest of the defense, the chargers have perhaps the best player in the league at several key positions so I'm not very worried. We had a huge number of turnovers and sacks, a number that could easily drop and still maintain a dominant tagline. Merriman is a huge asset but still just one person on a team of 11...

BlindSite
08-24-2008, 02:04 AM
I'd contact my agency and get the number of every athlete they have on the books who came back after such an injury, call them for advice, hammer out a good plan with surgeon's and medical staff and make sure I had a nice little nest egg of cash safely stashed away.

Then I'd go on IR.

Messing with knees isn't just football, or another 3 or 4 years for his career. He'll want to be able to bend down and pick up his grand kids, or try a new position with his wife.

Risking losing that stuff is bigger than football and not worth one season imo.

eaglesfan_45
08-24-2008, 02:33 AM
Career threatening? How the heck did he injure his knee in the first place? This story is getting crazier by the day.

Surgery in his knee, which is damaged due to steroid use, then took a helmet too the knee in practice which was severely weakened due to steroid use and surgery!

nobodyinparticular
08-24-2008, 02:53 AM
As a big charger fan, it hurts to read these headlines. I cringe ever time i watch espn because of the bottom line... as much as i hate to say it Merriman's injury seems significant enough that i would rather him miss the season and be healthy than play and further injury himself.

As for the rest of the defense, the chargers have perhaps the best player in the league at several key positions so I'm not very worried. We had a huge number of turnovers and sacks, a number that could easily drop and still maintain a dominant tagline. Merriman is a huge asset but still just one person on a team of 11...

Fail.

Cromartie gets INTs but he still gets victimized a lot in coverage. He's not even a top 5 CB. (really shouldn't be a top 10 CB)
No one at safety to mention even close to the top 5 or 10 in the league.
Jamal Williams is getting really old and probably not the best 3-4 NT anymore. (Wilfork or Hampton) He'll be solid, but not the force that he has been.
Shaun Phillips--not the best 3-4 OLB.
Castillo/Olshansky--Aaron Smith is still better. And probably Ty Warren too. And Castillo is hurt again.

Merriman was the one player you had who could arguably be considered the best player in the league at his position and you just lost him. You are replacing him with an untested, unheralded guy. Your defense is not going to be able to just take this in stride.

yourfavestoner
08-24-2008, 05:11 AM
This seems like a classic case of karma to me....the season where all the stars are seemingly aligned for a Charger Super Bowl run, 'roid boy is dealt with the most difficult decision he'll have to face in his NFL career.

niel89
08-24-2008, 05:38 AM
Fail.

Cromartie gets INTs but he still gets victimized a lot in coverage. He's not even a top 5 CB. (really shouldn't be a top 10 CB)
No one at safety to mention even close to the top 5 or 10 in the league.
Jamal Williams is getting really old and probably not the best 3-4 NT anymore. (Wilfork or Hampton) He'll be solid, but not the force that he has been.
Shaun Phillips--not the best 3-4 OLB.
Castillo/Olshansky--Aaron Smith is still better. And probably Ty Warren too. And Castillo is hurt again.

Merriman was the one player you had who could arguably be considered the best player in the league at his position and you just lost him. You are replacing him with an untested, unheralded guy. Your defense is not going to be able to just take this in stride.

thanks for taking care of that one. ;)

niel89
08-24-2008, 05:44 AM
oops wrong post

JK17
08-24-2008, 10:44 AM
Fail.

Cromartie gets INTs but he still gets victimized a lot in coverage. He's not even a top 5 CB. (really shouldn't be a top 10 CB)
No one at safety to mention even close to the top 5 or 10 in the league.
Jamal Williams is getting really old and probably not the best 3-4 NT anymore. (Wilfork or Hampton) He'll be solid, but not the force that he has been.
Shaun Phillips--not the best 3-4 OLB.
Castillo/Olshansky--Aaron Smith is still better. And probably Ty Warren too. And Castillo is hurt again.

Merriman was the one player you had who could arguably be considered the best player in the league at his position and you just lost him. You are replacing him with an untested, unheralded guy. Your defense is not going to be able to just take this in stride.

The best player at their positions might have been a stretch but its not like you just named a bunch of scrubs either. The Chargers do have a lot of talent on defense, which does soften the blow. At the same time, obviously losing Merriman doesn't make us better, or even the same. Jyles Tucker has shown flashes of being good but that was as an unkown, unchallenged player who didn't play an entire 16 game season. However, 3-4 OLB isn't the most difficult position to play. I'm honestly more worried about losing the attitude and leadership he brings to the defense, because I think that is harder to replace then the talent. Obviously a huge blow, but its also not the end of the world, there is a lot of good players on that defense.

Geo
08-24-2008, 11:58 AM
If he needs to get shut down for this season so that he can be healthy and continue to play for a number of more years, so be it imo. He's only 24 years old.

bored of education
08-24-2008, 11:59 AM
This really sucks for him, yet it could be karma.

GB12
08-24-2008, 12:06 PM
Merriman was the one player you had who could arguably be considered the best player in the league at his position and you just lost him.
DeMarcus Ware>Merriman

CC.SD
08-24-2008, 12:15 PM
Fail.

Cromartie gets INTs but he still gets victimized a lot in coverage. He's not even a top 5 CB. (really shouldn't be a top 10 CB)
No one at safety to mention even close to the top 5 or 10 in the league.
Jamal Williams is getting really old and probably not the best 3-4 NT anymore. (Wilfork or Hampton) He'll be solid, but not the force that he has been.
Shaun Phillips--not the best 3-4 OLB.
Castillo/Olshansky--Aaron Smith is still better. And probably Ty Warren too. And Castillo is hurt again.

Merriman was the one player you had who could arguably be considered the best player in the league at his position and you just lost him. You are replacing him with an untested, unheralded guy. Your defense is not going to be able to just take this in stride.


This post just reeks of bitterness. Hmmm...I think you left out a player, could it be...Ladainian Tomlinson? Oops.

your assessments of the Charger defensive players don't matter (I say that because I don't want to bother refuting your inaccuracies player by player), because collectively they're still one of the top units in the league. Merriman's a big loss but if any team is DEEP, it's us.

Please, please, sleep on the Chargers NFL. Losing Merriman will sink us, I swear.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-24-2008, 12:20 PM
DeMarcus Ware>Merriman

In terms of getting to the passer, which is by far the primary concern for a 3-4 weakside linebacker, Merrimen is head and shoulders above anyone. He's been the best sack artist in the NFL since he entered the league.

scottyboy
08-24-2008, 12:25 PM
This post just reeks of bitterness. Hmmm...I think you left out a player, could it be...Ladainian Tomlinson? Oops.

your assessments of the Charger defensive players don't matter (I say that because I don't want to bother refuting your inaccuracies player by player), because collectively they're still one of the top units in the league. Merriman's a big loss but if any team is DEEP, it's us.

Please, please, sleep on the Chargers NFL. Losing Merriman will sink us, I swear.

Ladainian Tomlinson plays defense? When the **** did this happen? that's news to me

Staubach12
08-24-2008, 12:27 PM
And the case for roids just piles up...

bored of education
08-24-2008, 12:31 PM
And the case for roids just piles up...

I wonder what evidence their is that correlates the use of roids to ligament deterioration.(sp) I suck. But I know their is some correlation. Would be interested.

Staubach12
08-24-2008, 12:33 PM
In terms of getting to the passer, which is by far the primary concern for a 3-4 weakside linebacker, Merrimen is head and shoulders above anyone. He's been the best sack artist in the NFL since he entered the league.

I wouldn't say that getting to the QB is far and away the biggest concern. It is the biggest, but dropping into coverage is another part of the 3-4 OLBs game that's terribly underrated. In that aspect, Merrimen is horrible. Merrimen may be a bit of a better pass rusher (though Ware did have 1.5 more sacks last season), but Ware is the best OLB in the game, and he's definitely the best 3-4 OLB.

trkaline
08-24-2008, 12:35 PM
This is so *** . I hate when the league loses a great young player...God you took Sean Taylor from us not too long ago why Merriman too??

Staubach12
08-24-2008, 12:35 PM
I wonder what evidence their is that correlates the use of roids to ligament deterioration.(sp) I suck. But I know their is some correlation. Would be interested.

You're right, BOE, you suck. <3

Anyway, that's what I've always heard, that roids deteriorate ligaments in crucial athletic joint ala the knee.

Staubach12
08-24-2008, 12:36 PM
This is so *** though I hate when the league loses a great young player...God you took Sean Taylor from us not too long ago why Merriman too??

There's a big difference between being dead and not being able to play...

bored of education
08-24-2008, 12:37 PM
You're right, BOE, you suck. <3

Anyway, that's what I've always heard, that roids deteriorate ligaments in crucial athletic joint ala the knee.


yay@sucking. I could report that post..but I won't :)

Merriman will be in Miami ina few years.

trkaline
08-24-2008, 12:38 PM
There's a big difference between being dead and not being able to play...

Yes but in my scope not being able to play anymore would be essentially the same, it's not like I knew either of them so not suiting up and playing and being dead are the same...

CC.SD
08-24-2008, 12:41 PM
Ladainian Tomlinson plays defense? When the **** did this happen? that's news to me

Dude, here is the guy's quote:

"Merriman was the one player you had who could arguably be considered the best player in the league at his position and you just lost him."

When I read the phrase, best player in the league at his position, my first thought goes to LT.

Xonraider
08-24-2008, 12:42 PM
As a person, I want the best for him, but wouldn't this be one of the effects of taking steroids? That's why cheaters never win.

As a Raider fan... bwahaha

scottyboy
08-24-2008, 01:45 PM
Dude, here is the guy's quote:

"Merriman was the one player you had who could arguably be considered the best player in the league at his position and you just lost him."

When I read the phrase, best player in the league at his position, my first thought goes to LT.

he was clearly talking defense as he proceeded to mention CB, safety, LB, DE and DT...

we're clealy talking Merriman and the bolts D, LDT has no place in here at all

Geo
08-24-2008, 01:54 PM
Enough Chargers bashing, stick to the Merriman topic.

Average OT LB
08-24-2008, 02:37 PM
Fail.

Cromartie gets INTs but he still gets victimized a lot in coverage. He's not even a top 5 CB. (really shouldn't be a top 10 CB)
No one at safety to mention even close to the top 5 or 10 in the league.
Jamal Williams is getting really old and probably not the best 3-4 NT anymore. (Wilfork or Hampton) He'll be solid, but not the force that he has been.
Shaun Phillips--not the best 3-4 OLB.
Castillo/Olshansky--Aaron Smith is still better. And probably Ty Warren too. And Castillo is hurt again.

Merriman was the one player you had who could arguably be considered the best player in the league at his position and you just lost him. You are replacing him with an untested, unheralded guy. Your defense is not going to be able to just take this in stride.

Your rebuttal is about as causal and shallow as my initial comment... Now while i wasn't exactly raving about our individual top flight defensive talent, and was moreso talking about the ability of our defense to take the blow, i believe it should be pointed out that there could be a case made for several of our players for their being the best at that position and that that alone should be enough for my comment to escape persecution..

Back to Merriman.. I just realized that cooper is going to miss a few games too and waters in on the pup so our LB core lost alot of depth no? I like dobbins, alot actually, but I'm not excited to see him in a featured role and playing on third downs...

CC.SD
08-24-2008, 03:37 PM
he was clearly talking defense as he proceeded to mention CB, safety, LB, DE and DT...

we're clealy talking Merriman and the bolts D, LDT has no place in here at all

Even if that's "clearly" what was he was talking about, despite his quote making no mention of defense at all, I'll still take a Chargers D where at least 5 positions are in position to argue for being elite talents. The Bolts will still be very very deadly on both sides of the ball, random bashers and guys who rejoice at injuries can suck it.

Dave
08-24-2008, 03:49 PM
San Diego is a good team, but I don't see where you can get off saying five of their defensive starters are elite talents.
Here's my breakdown:
DE: Luis Castillo and Igor Olshansky, Luis Castillo is a good player, but not elite and Igor is fairly underrated.
NT: Jamaal Williams, he's had some good years, but he has been largely overhyped at NT.
OLB: Shawne Merriman and Shaun Phillips, both are fairly young in their football careers and both have produced since day one. But both have had injury problems.
MLB: Stephen Cooper and Matt Wilhelm, neither are superstars. Both in my eyes, could be. Cooper is definitely the better of the two and is bound to have an amazing year.
CB: Quentin Jammer and Antonio Cromartie, Jammer is a solid player and almost undoubtedly one of the best corner's in the league. Cromartie however, has had one good year. This year determines whether or not Cromartie is one of the elite or not.
S: Clinton Hart and Eric Weddle, Clinton Hart is fairly underrated and is due to see some spotlight this year. Weddle is unproven and definitely not a superstar yet.

So the count is Jammer and Merriman.. maybe a couple other people depending on how much you like San Diego.

CC.SD
08-24-2008, 04:03 PM
San Diego is a good team, but I don't see where you can get off saying five of their defensive starters are elite talents.
Here's my breakdown:
DE: Luis Castillo and Igor Olshansky, Luis Castillo is a good player, but not elite and Igor is fairly underrated.
NT: Jamaal Williams, he's had some good years, but he has been largely overhyped at NT.
OLB: Shawne Merriman and Shaun Phillips, both are fairly young in their football careers and both have produced since day one. But both have had injury problems.
MLB: Stephen Cooper and Matt Wilhelm, neither are superstars. Both in my eyes, could be. Cooper is definitely the better of the two and is bound to have an amazing year.
CB: Quentin Jammer and Antonio Cromartie, Jammer is a solid player and almost undoubtedly one of the best corner's in the league. Cromartie however, has had one good year. This year determines whether or not Cromartie is one of the elite or not.
S: Clinton Hart and Eric Weddle, Clinton Hart is fairly underrated and is due to see some spotlight this year. Weddle is unproven and definitely not a superstar yet.

So the count is Jammer and Merriman.. maybe a couple other people depending on how much you like San Diego.

Phillips, Williams, Castillo, Jammer, Cromartie.

I'm glad you're on board with Jammer because a lot of ball watchers aren't and it will save me time.

Cromartie--when all you can say is "he has to do it again" to knock him down off elite status, that's a very very good sign. :D For my money he was defensive MVP of SD last year; he produces picks, is absolutely electrifying, and guess what, he's good in coverage too. I've seen every snap and I don't know where people are getting this "Cromartie gets torched in coverage" stuff from. It's fiction. He's not perfect, but he just might get there.

Phillips: hasn't had injury issues. He missed a couple games in 2006. He's got the fastest first step in the NFL, or at least top 5. His linebacker skills have really developed too, he's all over the field. Ask any Charger fan who is more clutch between Merriman and Phillips and you'll hear Phillips 90% of the time. Beast as a pass rusher, obviously.

Castillo: a monster against the run and pass, so I don't know what else you want from the 3-4 DE spot. He needs to stay on the field a full season obviously, but he's always back for the playoffs and I've never heard anyone knock his on the field game. More than a few people here I've read have placed him ahead of Seymour as #1 3-4 DE.

Jamal Williams: Okay, he's 32. Defensive tackles can last, man. Jamal is still a dominant player. In 2007 he had knee surgery mid-season and kept playing. Now he's finally had an off season to recuperate. I've seen this guy crush so many people over the years, he's gonna have to show me he's done before I believe it.



So there's five. Olshansky's a beast too, but just against the run. Wilhelm/Cooper are solid too, and Clinton Hart has showed he's a better than average SS. A very good supporting cast, especially if you're an Eric Weddle believer, which everyone should be. He's a smart player with serious ball skills.

Merriman might (still not confirmed what he's going to do) be gone, but he won't just take the Charger D with him.

bantx
08-24-2008, 04:05 PM
stephen cooper will have another 100+ tackle season

Dave
08-24-2008, 04:10 PM
Cromartie--when all you can say is "he has to do it again" to knock him down off elite status, that's a very very good sign. :D For my money he was defensive MVP of SD last year; he produces picks, is absolutely electrifying, and guess what, he's good in coverage too. I've seen every snap and I don't know where people are getting this "Cromartie gets torched in coverage" stuff from. It's fiction. He's not perfect, but he just might get there.

Jamal Williams: Okay, he's 32. Defensive tackles can last, man. Jamal is still a dominant player. In 2007 he had knee surgery mid-season and kept playing. Now he's finally had an off season to recuperate. I've seen this guy crush so many people over the years, he's gonna have to show me he's done before I believe it.


Jamal is good, and he's helped anchor that line for a good while now, but I can't see him at the age of 32 and still weighing over 340 producing very well deep into the season.

Cromartie isn't anything to sneeze at, but when half your int's came in one game, you can't just call him the next best thing.

M.O.T.H.
08-24-2008, 04:14 PM
I wouldnt worry too much about Williams...hell, big ole' Teddy Washington has been playing great for years at 370+ well into his 30's. If Jamal's knees hold up, he should continue to dominate up front. Jamal is still a spring chicken in comparison.

I honestly wouldnt be too worried if I was a Charger fan. That team has enough talent on that defense to continue to be a great group and Tucker is going to surprise a lot of people.

CC.SD
08-24-2008, 04:17 PM
Jamal is good, and he's helped anchor that line for a good while now, but I can't see him at the age of 32 and still weighing over 340 producing very well deep into the season.

Cromartie isn't anything to sneeze at, but when half your int's came in one game, you can't just call him the next best thing.

He had 3 against Peyton, 10 on the season. He only started 8 games.

He also had 2 more picks in 3 playoff games. Also...watch him! <<<<<<<

I am okay with calling him the next best thing.

Average OT LB
08-24-2008, 04:39 PM
He had 3 against Peyton, 10 on the season. He only started 8 games.

He also had 2 more picks in 3 playoff games. Also...watch him! <<<<<<<

I am okay with calling him the next best thing.

don't forget his 2 in the probowl, and his 77 int return yards.. not a serious game, but it is a record and therefore worth mentioning.. As for his starting 8 games, i should add that while you could read that and say, "yeah but when he didn't start he was still on the field alot" it wouldn't be true. Cromartie really didn't play much in the first few games.. in fact i don't believe he recorded a stat for awhile .. which makes his INT total very impressive.

Xenos
08-24-2008, 05:17 PM
I wouldn't say that getting to the QB is far and away the biggest concern. It is the biggest, but dropping into coverage is another part of the 3-4 OLBs game that's terribly underrated. In that aspect, Merrimen is horrible. Merrimen may be a bit of a better pass rusher (though Ware did have 1.5 more sacks last season), but Ware is the best OLB in the game, and he's definitely the best 3-4 OLB.
In that aspect, he's actually very underrated. He essentially shut down Tony Gonzales during our first meeting with the Chiefs last year. The only time Tony got his TD was when Merriman was on the sideline.

Xenos
08-24-2008, 05:18 PM
All I have to say is that it will hurt without him, but we can survive if our offense steps it up and our defensive depth shows through. We went 4-0 without him in 2006 against some stingy teams.

Average OT LB
08-24-2008, 05:40 PM
I wouldn't say that getting to the QB is far and away the biggest concern. It is the biggest, but dropping into coverage is another part of the 3-4 OLBs game that's terribly underrated. In that aspect, Merrimen is horrible. Merrimen may be a bit of a better pass rusher (though Ware did have 1.5 more sacks last season), but Ware is the best OLB in the game, and he's definitely the best 3-4 OLB.

This is an incredibly inaccurate statement.

nobodyinparticular
08-24-2008, 06:09 PM
Dude, here is the guy's quote:

"Merriman was the one player you had who could arguably be considered the best player in the league at his position and you just lost him."

When I read the phrase, best player in the league at his position, my first thought goes to LT.

"As for the rest of the defense, the chargers have perhaps the best player in the league at several key positions "

Defense. We were talking about defense. As you can see, I only mentioned defensive players. I didn't mention Goff or Hardwick or McNeill or Gates or LT. And the quote that I was addressing dealt with defense. I'm sorry if your reading comprehension is that of a 7 year old. I'll remember that next time and spell out every single argument.

DMWSackMachine
08-24-2008, 07:18 PM
lmao @ the turn this thread has taken.

To the SD faction crying the "we'll be alright" line: This is a serious blow. Yes, you have other very good players, but considering that Castillo and Olshansky are both dinged up (not to mention that Castillo hasn't been able to stay on the field regularly), the Harwick situation, Rivers' knee, Gates' toe, and now the injury issue with McNeill, I would say that adding Merriman potentially being out for the season has moved the barometer from "mildly concerned" to "potentially serious". Its ignorant to believe that having that many key players entering the season with injury issues is not something worth worrying about. Oh, and that doesn't even mention that LT is at the age and mileage where you have to begin dialing down your expectations for him as well.

To everyone arguing devastation for SD: These guys still have plenty of very good players, and their team isn't necessarily in deep ****. They have a deep rotation of LBs that might be able to mitigate his loss (should it happen, which isn't guaranteed yet) to an extent, and they have a developing seconarday that looks like it has the talent to hold up for a little while longer if the pass rush isn't as strong. In all likelihood, this team will still be among the best 4 in the league.

bantx
08-24-2008, 07:35 PM
lmao @ the turn this thread has taken.

To the SD faction crying the "we'll be alright" line: This is a serious blow. Yes, you have other very good players, but considering that Castillo and Olshansky are both dinged up (not to mention that Castillo hasn't been able to stay on the field regularly), the Harwick situation, Rivers' knee, Gates' toe, and now the injury issue with McNeill, I would say that adding Merriman potentially being out for the season has moved the barometer from "mildly concerned" to "potentially serious". Its ignorant to believe that having that many key players entering the season with injury issues is not something worth worrying about. Oh, and that doesn't even mention that LT is at the age and mileage where you have to begin dialing down your expectations for him as well.

To everyone arguing devastation for SD: These guys still have plenty of very good players, and their team isn't necessarily in deep ****. They have a deep rotation of LBs that might be able to mitigate his loss (should it happen, which isn't guaranteed yet) to an extent, and they have a developing seconarday that looks like it has the talent to hold up for a little while longer if the pass rush isn't as strong. In all likelihood, this team will still be among the best 4 in the league.

I didnt know 29 was the new 36

yourfavestoner
08-24-2008, 07:52 PM
I didnt know 29 was the new 36

He's a running back that has had over 300 carries and over 50 receptions every single year he's been in the NFL.

Average OT LB
08-24-2008, 07:53 PM
He's a running back that has had over 300 carries and over 50 receptions every single year he's been in the NFL.

but its been done before. He doesn't have a punishing running style and his lack of injuries to this point is proof of that. Also, he doesn't face the pounding other backs do in the preseason.. as well as the postseason..

yourfavestoner
08-24-2008, 08:05 PM
but its been done before. He doesn't have a punishing running style and his lack of injuries to this point is proof of that. Also, he doesn't face the pounding other backs do in the preseason.. as well as the postseason..

Sure it's been done before. All people are saying is that LT, as great as he is, is getting to the age where he's going to start getting worse - not better.

Menardo75
08-24-2008, 08:16 PM
Looking at how deep the Chargers are if something happened to him or he was not performing as well in some aspects im sure they have someone in the wings to do it for him

steelersfan43
08-25-2008, 03:44 AM
obviously losing Merriman doesn't make us better, or even the same..
wow....................

JK17
08-25-2008, 09:50 AM
wow....................

See that would be a dumb quote if it wasn't said right after I was pointing out the depth we had...in order to clarify that although we have a lot of depth I'm not implying we're better off for losing him. But gee, that sure was a good one line to pick out of a paragraph reply of a five page thread to meaninglessly quote, then not elaborate, and also make a meaningless post!

Average OT LB
08-25-2008, 10:33 AM
wow....................

This really was not neccessary

CC.SD
08-25-2008, 11:48 AM
This really was not neccessary

He sigged it too. Why is it so stupid; it IS obvious that we're worse without Merriman. Is saying that it's obvious, when it's obvious, too obvious? :D

Let em cherry pick and hate, it's okay that's what boards are for anyway. It's time to brush our shoulders off SD fans. The season starts soon enough.

SuperKevin
08-25-2008, 01:40 PM
The positive aspect of this injury is that it allows their young depth to play in the event Kevin Acee is right about the Chargers not re-signing Merriman after 2009.

Staubach12
08-25-2008, 04:17 PM
Yes but in my scope not being able to play anymore would be essentially the same, it's not like I knew either of them so not suiting up and playing and being dead are the same...

Wow... I'm not even sure what to say... I'd much rather him not be dead... just as a good human being.

Staubach12
08-25-2008, 04:23 PM
This is an incredibly inaccurate statement.

...says the guy with the Merriman sig. Plus, I'm glad you put up a good argument. Everyone here's now incredibly convinced. Just saying, "You're wrong" is definitely the best argument in this thread so far. Congratulations.

bantx
08-25-2008, 04:26 PM
...says the guy with the Merriman sig. Plus, I'm glad you put up a good argument. Everyone here's now incredibly convinced. Just saying, "You're wrong" is definitely the best argument in this thread so far. Congratulations.

but yeah of course 39.5 sacks in 42 games the guy is horrible

awfullyquiet
08-25-2008, 04:32 PM
but yeah of course 39.5 sacks in 42 games the guy is horrible

Steroids + Phillips + Castillo + Igor + Williams = WIN!

he's good an all that. but, you have to look at his cast around him and how good they are. and they are. THAT GOOD.

:):):):):):):):):):):)

bantx
08-25-2008, 04:34 PM
Steroids + Phillips + Castillo + Igor + Williams = WIN!

he's good an all that. but, you have to look at his cast around him and how good they are. and they are. THAT GOOD.

:):):):):):):):):):):)

yeah i was just responding to what he said about merriman earlier

In that aspect, Merrimen is horrible.

JK17
08-25-2008, 04:38 PM
...says the guy with the Merriman sig. Plus, I'm glad you put up a good argument. Everyone here's now incredibly convinced. Just saying, "You're wrong" is definitely the best argument in this thread so far. Congratulations.

How can you call someone out for that, when you yourself didn't give an argument? I'm sorry, but unless you consider a one sentence statement that says, "In that aspect, Merriman is horrible" to be a convincing, lengthy, well-proven argument, your opinion looks just as silly and unproven as his.

Congratulations, you just criticized someone for doing the exact same thing you did. You really proved your argument as well. And, don't worry, I'm sure everyone is incredibly influenced and swayed by your winner of a one sentence argument, moreso then his one sentence rebuttal. Also, thank god you tried to indicate he was biased because of his Merriman sig, when your argument was initially created just to say DeMarcus Ware was better...don't worry, it made sense to call him out for disagreeing.

CC.SD
08-25-2008, 04:50 PM
How can you call someone out for that, when you yourself didn't give an argument? I'm sorry, but unless you consider a one sentence statement that says, "In that aspect, Merriman is horrible" to be a convincing, lengthy, well-proven argument, your opinion looks just as silly and unproven as his.

Congratulations, you just criticized someone for doing the exact same thing you did. You really proved your argument as well. And, don't worry, I'm sure everyone is incredibly influenced and swayed by your winner of a one sentence argument, moreso then his one sentence rebuttal. Also, thank god you tried to indicate he was biased because of his Merriman sig, when your argument was initially created just to say DeMarcus Ware was better...don't worry, it made sense to call him out for disagreeing.

Don't even bother...anyone who has actually watched Merriman in coverage has seen that he's not bad at all, and at times great. His initial statement alone should have been enough to tell you he's just spousing an opinion without having watched the guy; ie. you will never win this argument.

awfullyquiet
08-25-2008, 05:06 PM
Don't even bother...anyone who has actually watched Merriman in coverage has seen that he's not bad at all, and at times great. His initial statement alone should have been enough to tell you he's just spousing an opinion without having watched the guy; ie. you will never win this argument.

for a 3-4 olb? sure. he's not bad in coverage. Not great as you say. But not absolutely terrible.
for an olb? he sucks (but that's not the point).

it's not like he will get beat often, because more often than not, he isn't put into coverage, they don't push him into coverage, and haven't pushed him into coverage in the past. this is why he's a 3-4 olb and not a 4-3 olb. Ware is more the complete deal. Thomas is more the complete deal.

out of the... *counts* 12, real starting 3-4 olb's... his pass coverage would put him maybe tops, middle of the field. Kam Wimbly, Vrabel, Thomas, Phillips, Ware... are better. McGinest is better (even with less tools, but he's got the intellegence)... I can say that he is better in coverage than Banta-Cain, and whoever is opposite from him (i can't remember his name), and Greg Ellis...

To say he sucks from a relative standpoint is absolutely correct, he isn't 'as good' as other 3-4 olb's... but he's better in the one place you need olb's to be... and that's the pass-rush. He can neglect the pass coverage because his rushing skills are so good.

Staubach12
08-25-2008, 05:37 PM
but yeah of course 39.5 sacks in 42 games the guy is horrible

I never doubted his ability as a pass-rusher. Go back and look. We all know Merriman is one of the best if not the best pass-rusher in the game. I'm saying that he's not a good in coverage.

Staubach12
08-25-2008, 05:38 PM
for a 3-4 olb? sure. he's not bad in coverage. Not great as you say. But not absolutely terrible.
for an olb? he sucks (but that's not the point).

it's not like he will get beat often, because more often than not, he isn't put into coverage, they don't push him into coverage, and haven't pushed him into coverage in the past. this is why he's a 3-4 olb and not a 4-3 olb. Ware is more the complete deal. Thomas is more the complete deal.

out of the... *counts* 12, real starting 3-4 olb's... his pass coverage would put him maybe tops, middle of the field. Kam Wimbly, Vrabel, Thomas, Phillips, Ware... are better. McGinest is better (even with less tools, but he's got the intellegence)... I can say that he is better in coverage than Banta-Cain, and whoever is opposite from him (i can't remember his name), and Greg Ellis...

To say he sucks from a relative standpoint is absolutely correct, he isn't 'as good' as other 3-4 olb's... but he's better in the one place you need olb's to be... and that's the pass-rush. He can neglect the pass coverage because his rushing skills are so good.

And on that, we agree. He's a good 3-4 OLB. I only said he's not as good as Ware, which I think most people will agree with me on.

awfullyquiet
08-25-2008, 05:55 PM
And on that, we agree. He's a good 3-4 OLB. I only said he's not as good as Ware, which I think most people will agree with me on.

he's a great olb. his tradeoff though is different than with ware. ware isn't as good or threatening as merriman can be. i don't care if ware is better. it's the fear factor that merriman puts on that ekes it out for him. IMO. he's crazy scary. or scary because he's crazy. or both.

CC.SD
08-25-2008, 06:04 PM
And on that, we agree. He's a good 3-4 OLB. I only said he's not as good as Ware, which I think most people will agree with me on.

I don't think most people would agree with you on that. It's always been close with Merriman being the better rusher (aka the main responsibility of a 3-4 backer), but.. I've seriously had this discussion a million times though, I can't do it again. Internet fans have turned on Merriman because of the bust and now because of injury; on the field, he's still as dynamic as they come. You simply can't ask for more from his position, and I'll grant that description to Ware as well, and maybe we can rest in peace.

Quiet...I appreciate that you seem to have put some thoughtful effort into your post, but I just don't agree with how you seem to have come to your opinions, bro. Merriman does get dropped back quite a bit, far too much in 2007 in fact, and covered his guy damn well. Believe me, I've got the games tivoed, and I've seen him do his thing in space very handily. He's no Thomas (or Shaun Phillips), but coverage is not the gaping hole in his game that many would have you believe. To say he sucks even from a 'relative' perspective is, IMO (as always) incorrect.

awfullyquiet
08-25-2008, 06:07 PM
if i asked you to rank 3-4 OLB's from a pass coverage perspective. where would merriman fall?

I'm going to ride my bike home. and by the time i get home, i expect a list.

CC.SD
08-25-2008, 06:20 PM
if i asked you to rank 3-4 OLB's from a pass coverage perspective. where would merriman fall?

I'm going to ride my bike home. and by the time i get home, i expect a list.

Hm, well that's a far more interesting list than most of the ones around here, so I'll give it a shot.

1. Adalius Thomas. He beasts at ILB, he beasts at OLB, he beasts at Applebees...

2. Vrabel: See above.

3. D-Ware: So silky smooth.

4. Shaun Phillips: He really has evolved into a complete linebacker, a joy to watch. Coincidentally, he rose to prominence after Steve Foley unexpectedly went down right before the 06 season. This is the story Jyles Tucker listens to every night before bedtime.

5. Here we are, Merriman.

The rest I thought about: Porter, Wimbley, Harrison, Suggs, Lawson, Banta-Cain, Pace, Ellis. Merriman's shown me more in coverage than these guys, and Wimbley was the only one I had to go to the tivo for. So 5 out of 13. You're right in the sense that he's not beating out a whole lot of guys, but it's not exactly the most common position in the NFL. I will say this; Merriman could go the rest of his career and stay at his current level when it comes to coverage abilities, and he'd still be A-OK. :D

awfullyquiet
08-25-2008, 06:35 PM
I will say this; Merriman could go the rest of his career and stay at his current level when it comes to coverage abilities, and he'd still be A-OK. :D

I don't think anyone would disagree with you on that point.

SuperKevin
08-25-2008, 06:43 PM
Jyles Tucker just got a new 5 year contract today. Coincidence?

CC.SD
08-25-2008, 06:47 PM
Jyles Tucker just got a new 5 year contract today. Coincidence?

It's an AJ Smith signing; if Tucker plays the whole year and does as well as the coaching staff thinks he will (they HAVE been pimping him all summer, and really since he picked up a Defensive Player of the Week award the last week of the season) then he'll be much more expensive at the end of the year.

If Tucker posts double digit sacks and the Chargers defense doesn't drop off too badly, the writing is probably going to be on the wall for Shawne. That said, there's noting wrong with locking up a talented backup for cheap, especially at a passrushing position.

SuperKevin
08-25-2008, 06:51 PM
I hope Eric Bakhtiari makes the team. I watched him play twice last year at USD

CC.SD
08-25-2008, 06:53 PM
I hope Eric Bakhtiari makes the team. I watched him play twice last year at USD

My cousin went to USD and swears he is dominant...I'm not so sure. Then again, the Chargers do seem to keep pulling these 3-4 passrushers out of nowhere, and Applewhite went to SDSU, so why not?

SuperKevin
08-25-2008, 10:24 PM
And Jyles Tucker leaves tonights game with a high ankle sprain. Antwan Applewhite is probably pleased as the team can't afford to cut him right now.

CC.SD
08-25-2008, 10:38 PM
The odds are getting better for Bakhtiari as we speak.

eaglesfan_45
08-25-2008, 10:40 PM
Doesn't Shaun Phillips have to serve a suspension as well?

Things aren't looking good for the Chargers at OLB.

LonghornsLegend
08-25-2008, 10:41 PM
Did he get that deal after the game, or before?

CC.SD
08-25-2008, 10:44 PM
Doesn't Shaun Phillips have to serve a suspension as well?

Things aren't looking good for the Chargers at OLB.

No you're thinking of Stephen Cooper.

Average OT LB
08-26-2008, 12:23 AM
...says the guy with the Merriman sig. Plus, I'm glad you put up a good argument. Everyone here's now incredibly convinced. Just saying, "You're wrong" is definitely the best argument in this thread so far. Congratulations.

I am speaking from an informative position, having watched every game he has played. You have not, or else you would not have the opinion you do. As for my sig indicating a bias, this is not true. I dont see signs next to my sig saying, I love this guy and defend everything he does. I don't see why my enjoying watching his play has anything to do with how i defend him in an argument. I can see that a natural bias could develop, similar to what occurs when someone becomes a 'homer', and i suppose there is no fair way to word around that. Either way, a bias is not readily apparent unless there is a severe untruth within the argument.. My comment was an accurate because it was informed and those who watch without bias would reach the same conclusion. This is why i felt comfortable leaving out a detailed argument, because the ridiculous inaccuracies within your post revealed your limited and outdated opinion to me as something not worth my time.

I'll try and stay away from one sentence posts though, more detail would be fair.

SuperKevin
08-26-2008, 12:45 AM
Did he get that deal after the game, or before?

Like 4 hours before the game

DMWSackMachine
08-26-2008, 01:07 AM
Can someone tell me why all the Charger fans get so butt hurt whenever anyone says the slightest negative thing about their team? I mean, it can be the most obvious, seemingly inocuous observation and suddenly they are pulling out their blankie and sippy-cup while huddling in a corner. wtf?

BlindSite
08-26-2008, 01:24 AM
The way I see it Ware is just as dominant a player, though at times in different roles without needing to use performance enhancing substances. That alone makes him a better player.

awfullyquiet
08-26-2008, 02:17 AM
The way I see it Ware is just as dominant a player, though at times in different roles without needing to use performance enhancing substances. That alone makes him a better player.

Nothing about the panthers. Or performance enhancing? Maddning!

Anyway.

Merriman is a douche right now. Right now. he's been to 3 orthopedists... they all tell him he needs surgery... he's going to a FOURTH to get a different opinion.

the man wants to play. but he's stupid. just have the surgery. get it over with.

niel89
08-26-2008, 02:36 AM
he is just looking for a doctor to agree with him. if he is stupid enough to play after he has talked to 3 doctors then he deserves any injury he gets, career ending or not.

BlindSite
08-26-2008, 06:37 AM
Nothing about the panthers. Or performance enhancing? Maddning!

Anyway.

Merriman is a douche right now. Right now. he's been to 3 orthopedists... they all tell him he needs surgery... he's going to a FOURTH to get a different opinion.

the man wants to play. but he's stupid. just have the surgery. get it over with.

Wtf is your problem?

CC.SD
08-26-2008, 10:10 AM
Can someone tell me why all the Charger fans get so butt hurt whenever anyone says the slightest negative thing about their team? I mean, it can be the most obvious, seemingly inocuous observation and suddenly they are pulling out their blankie and sippy-cup while huddling in a corner. wtf?

I don't know, can you tell me why some people post responses that are strictly designed to stir up ****?

Let's try and stay on topic here. Start a thread with your current question if you want to.

Flyboy
08-26-2008, 10:14 AM
Can someone tell me why all the Charger fans get so butt hurt whenever anyone says the slightest negative thing about their team? I mean, it can be the most obvious, seemingly inocuous observation and suddenly they are pulling out their blankie and sippy-cup while huddling in a corner. wtf?

Probably the same reason Cowboys' fans do? *shrugs*

LonghornsLegend
08-26-2008, 10:24 AM
Probably the same reason Cowboys' fans do? *shrugs*

LOL how did I know that was coming.

Addict
08-26-2008, 10:42 AM
LOL how did I know that was coming.

...you're psychic?

Borat
08-26-2008, 10:42 AM
Hm, well that's a far more interesting list than most of the ones around here, so I'll give it a shot.

1. Adalius Thomas. He beasts at ILB, he beasts at OLB, he beasts at Applebees...

2. Vrabel: See above.

3. D-Ware: So silky smooth.

4. Shaun Phillips: He really has evolved into a complete linebacker, a joy to watch. Coincidentally, he rose to prominence after Steve Foley unexpectedly went down right before the 06 season. This is the story Jyles Tucker listens to every night before bedtime.

5. Here we are, Merriman.

The rest I thought about: Porter, Wimbley, Harrison, Suggs, Lawson, Banta-Cain, Pace, Ellis.

Took me a day to stop LOLing to respond to that! Banta-Cain? Really?

CC.SD
08-26-2008, 10:47 AM
Took me a day to stop LOLing to respond to that! Banta-Cain? Really?

The list is top OLBs in coverage, and he's in my "dismissed" list. What's your issue?

Borat
08-26-2008, 11:04 AM
The list is top OLBs in coverage, and he's in my "dismissed" list. What's your issue?

My issue? Relax. I just didn't know Banta-Cain belonged on any list that wasn't called "Crappiest players on Earth"

CC.SD
08-26-2008, 11:31 AM
My issue? Relax. I just didn't know Banta-Cain belonged on any list that wasn't called "Crappiest players on Earth"

LOL, no I meant what was wrong with it. Not like your childhood trauma, soldier.

I hate Banta-Cain too I think the fact that he's still in the league has set defensive football back five years.

Borat
08-26-2008, 11:36 AM
LOL, no I meant what was wrong with it. Not like your childhood trauma, soldier.


How do you know about my childhood trauma? :)

awfullyquiet
08-26-2008, 11:49 AM
Wtf is your problem?

couldn't tell you.

i think merriman should be traded to the panthers.

JK17
08-26-2008, 12:24 PM
Can someone tell me why all the Charger fans get so butt hurt whenever anyone says the slightest negative thing about their team? I mean, it can be the most obvious, seemingly inocuous observation and suddenly they are pulling out their blankie and sippy-cup while huddling in a corner. wtf?

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

DMWSackMachine
08-26-2008, 01:09 PM
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

:D....how quaint.

bigbluedefense
08-26-2008, 01:23 PM
this will hurt his career stats now that he's gonna miss a year.


Ive said it before, and I stand by this: Shawne Merriman is the closest thing we've seen to LT since LT.


He's no LT (no one will ever be most likely), but he's the closest thing to it we've seen from the rushbacker position. Huge blow for the chargers.

Borat
08-26-2008, 01:24 PM
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

But if your house is made out of wood, drywall, stucco, concrete etc, you can pretty much throw whatever the hell you want.

giantsfan
08-26-2008, 01:27 PM
But if your house is made out of wood, drywall, stucco, concrete etc, you can pretty much throw whatever the hell you want.

I have an adobe house, can I start capping off RPG rounds?

Borat
08-26-2008, 01:29 PM
I have an adobe house, can I start capping off RPG rounds?

Can you throw RPG rounds? That doesn't seem quite right to me.

Burns336
08-26-2008, 03:21 PM
Ware is superior in coverage, superior against the run, better in pursuit, and has about 6 less career sacks.

Factor in the scheme Ware played under Bill Parcells vs. The scheme Merriman played under phillips and the sacks might even be closer than what appears.

I don't care if Merriman missed 4 games due to suspension either. You can't help your team if you not on the field, and if you want to cheat and then follow up cheating with a huge lie, you're hurting yourself and putting the team in a bad spot. He's probably walking after this season because AJ Smith realizes the guy is a prick and can be replaced.

I hate the excuse I always hear about "Just imagine if he played those 4 games" -- I mean, just imagine if he wasn't juiced out of his mind??

He's a great player, but he did this to his own body, he deserves no sympathy, and he illegally enhanced his performance for atleast 1 season, maybe 2.

PS. Ware is rated higher on madden by 1 point so suck it!?!?

Burns336
08-26-2008, 03:27 PM
Hm, well that's a far more interesting list than most of the ones around here, so I'll give it a shot.

1. Adalius Thomas. He beasts at ILB, he beasts at OLB, he beasts at Applebees...

2. Vrabel: See above.

3. D-Ware: So silky smooth.

4. Shaun Phillips: He really has evolved into a complete linebacker, a joy to watch. Coincidentally, he rose to prominence after Steve Foley unexpectedly went down right before the 06 season. This is the story Jyles Tucker listens to every night before bedtime.

5. Here we are, Merriman.

The rest I thought about: Porter, Wimbley, Harrison, Suggs, Lawson, Banta-Cain, Pace, Ellis. Merriman's shown me more in coverage than these guys, and Wimbley was the only one I had to go to the tivo for. So 5 out of 13. You're right in the sense that he's not beating out a whole lot of guys, but it's not exactly the most common position in the NFL. I will say this; Merriman could go the rest of his career and stay at his current level when it comes to coverage abilities, and he'd still be A-OK. :D

I doubt you've even watched all these guys play. And even if you have, you certainly haven't watched extensively. Having even mentioned Ellis and Coverage in the same sentence threw up the huge red flag.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-26-2008, 03:52 PM
I doubt you've even watched all these guys play. And even if you have, you certainly haven't watched extensively. Having even mentioned Ellis and Coverage in the same sentence threw up the huge red flag.

He only mentioned Ellis as someone Merriman is better than. Learn 2 read k plz thx.

Burns336
08-26-2008, 04:10 PM
He only mentioned Ellis as someone Merriman is better than. Learn 2 read k plz thx.

The context in which he used them was to imply that he was judging them as OLB's who were GOOD in coverage but he thought Merriman was better.

If he didn't think those players were relevant in the discussion of good coverage OLB's than he could have just listed Merriman and left it at that, or he should have listed every other 3-4 OLB in the league. He specifically mentioned them because he thought they were others who should be mentioned among good cover OLB's

Learn 2 think. K plz thx.

Borat
08-26-2008, 04:13 PM
I love the anger in this thread.

I'm blaming Merriman for it.

bantx
08-26-2008, 05:04 PM
I love how the cowboy fans somehow turned this into another merriman vs ware debate and to DMWSackmachine you say how sensitive we are, once someone said merriman > ware yall get defensive, so dont be so hypocritical.

bigbluedefense
08-26-2008, 05:11 PM
If I could build any defense, and I had a choice of starting it with any player in the league, id build a 3-4 defense around Shawne Merriman.

If we're talking 4-3, id pick Mario Williams.

But having a 3-4 defense with a pass rusher capable of drawing the attention that Merriman draws is a priceless commodity. Id take Merriman over anyone.

SuperKevin
08-26-2008, 05:13 PM
If I could build any defense, and I had a choice of starting it with any player in the league, id build a 3-4 defense around Shawne Merriman.

If we're talking 4-3, id pick Mario Williams.

But having a 3-4 defense with a pass rusher capable of drawing the attention that Merriman draws is a priceless commodity. Id take Merriman over anyone.

You need to make sure you have safeties and ILBs that can make up for his deficiencies in pass coverage. If you are set there then yes, Merriman is the ultimate player for your 3-4 defense.

BlindSite
08-26-2008, 05:17 PM
I love the anger in this thread.

I'm blaming Merriman for it.

Its steroid rage. It overflows from the discussion and pictures.

bigbluedefense
08-26-2008, 05:18 PM
You need to make sure you have safeties and ILBs that can make up for his deficiencies in pass coverage. If you are set there then yes, Merriman is the ultimate player for your 3-4 defense.

not really.

Merriman's "issues" in coverage are blown way out of proportion. Not to mention, when you have a pass rusher that consistently draws the double team that Merriman does (which we haven't seen in a long time), you're gonna have him rush more often than not anyway.

To break down Merriman's true impact would take too long. Simply put: having a rushbacker who consistently draws both the Tackle and a RB or TE on every play is a luxury that is priceless. Merriman is the only rushbacker who does this on every snap.

He's an impact player who is also clutch, something that the stat sheet doesn't show.

How his career plays out after this is unknown, but prior to this injury, there wasn't a defensive player in football id take over him.

awfullyquiet
08-26-2008, 05:19 PM
You need to make sure you have safeties and ILBs that can make up for his deficiencies in pass coverage. If you are set there then yes, Merriman is the ultimate player for your 3-4 defense.

Part of what makes him so lethal is the players around him. If he was stuck on the bengals.... It would be Merriman who... oh... That thug?

edit: he's great. he's not LT great. part of that luxury lies from being in the AFC west.

bigbluedefense
08-26-2008, 05:38 PM
Part of what makes him so lethal is the players around him. If he was stuck on the bengals.... It would be Merriman who... oh... That thug?

edit: he's great. he's not LT great. part of that luxury lies from being in the AFC west.

no one will ever be LT great.

its hard for me to explain my stance on this without writing an essay. basically to understand where im coming from, id have to write a huge discussion on pass protection and how Merriman impacts it better than any pass rusher in the league.

a lot of ppl say that Merriman benefits from the scheme. False. The players around Merriman benefit from the scheme. Merriman makes that scheme tick.

Average OT LB
08-26-2008, 05:54 PM
You need to make sure you have safeties and ILBs that can make up for his deficiencies in pass coverage. If you are set there then yes, Merriman is the ultimate player for your 3-4 defense.

In the years before merriman the chargers were atrocious at pass defense, ranking last or next to last a few times. Merriman's overall impact is beneficial to the pass defense, and his play this year shows it in the teams defensive totals. I'd feel confident making the argument that his play forced passes; either away from his man he was covering, or into coverage because hes blitzing.

awfullyquiet
08-26-2008, 05:55 PM
its hard for me to explain my stance on this without writing an essay. basically to understand where im coming from, id have to write a huge discussion on pass protection and how Merriman impacts it better than any pass rusher in the league.


I can sum it up for you really easily.

The greatest defense sometimes is a good offense. By being such an opposing threat (which he is), people game plan to him, and that sometimes means, scaling back on their passing attack, which all in turn, benifits everyone else.

a lot of ppl say that Merriman benefits from the scheme. False. The players around Merriman benefit from the scheme. Merriman makes that scheme tick.

The first half of that you're right. Merriman doesn't benifit directly from the scheme. But the players around Merriman affect how well he plays. Put an injury in the DL or ILB spot, and watch Merriman not be able to react the same way he does as a OLB because the middle of the field will be more open to protection issues.

Merriman benefits not by the scheme, but by the high competency and skill levels of the front 7 in San Diego.

bigbluedefense
08-26-2008, 06:05 PM
I can sum it up for you really easily.

The greatest defense sometimes is a good offense. By being such an opposing threat (which he is), people game plan to him, and that sometimes means, scaling back on their passing attack, which all in turn, benifits everyone else.



The first half of that you're right. Merriman doesn't benifit directly from the scheme. But the players around Merriman affect how well he plays. Put an injury in the DL or ILB spot, and watch Merriman not be able to react the same way he does as a OLB because the middle of the field will be more open to protection issues.

Merriman benefits not by the scheme, but by the high competency and skill levels of the front 7 in San Diego.

Theres only one player that impacts Merriman on that defense. Jamal Williams. His double team is vital to their defense (as is any 3-4 NT).

Merriman draws a double himself. He gets the Tackle and a RB or TE. Now this is why he's so dangerous. To block their front 4 (3 + Merriman) you need to have all your olinemen in + a RB.

Now, how does the DC counter this? He blitzes, and the way he can blitz bc of Merriman is why that SD defense is so good. If he brings an ILB along with those 4 guys, now you have one guy 1 on 1 with a RB. If he brings an ILB plus a Safety on the blitz, he has one guy coming unblocked.

Mind you, this is a 6 man rush resulting in 1 unblocked player. That allows them to keep coverage integrity in both man or zone, while getting instant pressure on the qb. And all the possibilities that come with that are priceless.

It all comes back to Merriman's ability to draw 2 guys. If you send Merriman and Phillips, what can an offense do? Not much. Phillips benefits greatly from merriman.

Once teams start man blocking, you introduce stunting blitzes. They wanna zone block, you zone blitz. The possibilities are endless. And it all comes back to Merriman and the NT.

2 guys need 4 guys to block em. Most rushbackers (even guys like Derrick Thomas and Ware) usually just need the Tackle. Merriman has shown throughout his career that is not good enough. He needs another guy. Having a rushbacker who can do that is priceless.

A DE is easy to double. You can slide protection etc. You can't slide protection on a rushbacker. You gotta leave extra guys in to block. The type of pass rush you can design around Merriman makes him the most impactful pass rusher in the game.

Merriman doesn't benefit from Castillo, or Olshanksky, or Phillips. They benefit from him. When Castillo went down, they didn't miss a beat. Hes a great player, but not a focal point of that defense. Its all about Merriman and Williams.

If you build a defense around Merriman, all you need is a NT who can draw a double team, and competent players around those 2 guys in the front 7 to have a dominant front. He impacts the guys around him that much.

And it all goes back to his ability to draw that extra RB or TE.

CC.SD
08-26-2008, 07:18 PM
Sirius is now saying that Merriman will play. Take it for what you will, no other word out of either camp.

Good stuff as always BBD. The only point I'd disagree with is that we definitely did miss a beat without Castillo, but it was mostly in the run game. And Jamal can never get too much credit.

SuperKevin
08-26-2008, 07:21 PM
Sirius is now saying that Merriman will play. Take it for what you will, no other word out of either camp.

Good stuff as always BBD. The only point I'd disagree with is that we definitely did miss a beat without Castillo, but it was mostly in the run game. And Jamal can never get too much credit.

If he plays he'll be nothing more than a decoy. They will put him out there only to force teams to put the TE on his side of the field or keep a RB back in blocking. I seriously don't expect the Chargers to allow him to play at full speed. However, if Kevin Acee is right they might just say screw it and let him risk hurting himself more for a few extra wins knowing he isn't playing in SD in 2010

CC.SD
08-26-2008, 07:23 PM
If he plays he'll be nothing more than a decoy. They will put him out there only to force teams to put the TE on his side of the field or keep a RB back in blocking. I seriously don't expect the Chargers to allow him to play at full speed. However, if Kevin Acee is right they might just say screw it and let him risk hurting himself more for a few extra wins knowing he isn't playing in SD in 2010

If Merriman is out there, he won't be a decoy. This whole controversy of Merriman vs. the surgery has been spurred along by the fact that he's looked so good in camp/practice, and that I've seen with my own eyes.

That said, it's a bad, risky decision if this is true. Not that I'll be minding the first time he blindsides a QB.

Dam8610
08-26-2008, 07:28 PM
Theres only one player that impacts Merriman on that defense. Jamal Williams. His double team is vital to their defense (as is any 3-4 NT).

Merriman draws a double himself. He gets the Tackle and a RB or TE. Now this is why he's so dangerous. To block their front 4 (3 + Merriman) you need to have all your olinemen in + a RB.

Now, how does the DC counter this? He blitzes, and the way he can blitz bc of Merriman is why that SD defense is so good. If he brings an ILB along with those 4 guys, now you have one guy 1 on 1 with a RB. If he brings an ILB plus a Safety on the blitz, he has one guy coming unblocked.

Mind you, this is a 6 man rush resulting in 1 unblocked player. That allows them to keep coverage integrity in both man or zone, while getting instant pressure on the qb. And all the possibilities that come with that are priceless.

It all comes back to Merriman's ability to draw 2 guys. If you send Merriman and Phillips, what can an offense do? Not much. Phillips benefits greatly from merriman.

Once teams start man blocking, you introduce stunting blitzes. They wanna zone block, you zone blitz. The possibilities are endless. And it all comes back to Merriman and the NT.

2 guys need 4 guys to block em. Most rushbackers (even guys like Derrick Thomas and Ware) usually just need the Tackle. Merriman has shown throughout his career that is not good enough. He needs another guy. Having a rushbacker who can do that is priceless.

A DE is easy to double. You can slide protection etc. You can't slide protection on a rushbacker. You gotta leave extra guys in to block. The type of pass rush you can design around Merriman makes him the most impactful pass rusher in the game.

Merriman doesn't benefit from Castillo, or Olshanksky, or Phillips. They benefit from him. When Castillo went down, they didn't miss a beat. Hes a great player, but not a focal point of that defense. Its all about Merriman and Williams.

If you build a defense around Merriman, all you need is a NT who can draw a double team, and competent players around those 2 guys in the front 7 to have a dominant front. He impacts the guys around him that much.

And it all goes back to his ability to draw that extra RB or TE.

If I'm an OC, and I really need that extra RB or TE to chip on Merriman (though I've seen rushbackers blocked by sliding guards in some zone schemes, not as good as Merriman, mind you, but something to keep in mind), why wouldn't I just have that guy chip, then run him out into the flat? Not only is Merriman effectively blocked, but I now have a safety valve option for my QB. Also, I think you're slightly overrating Merriman. He's been blocked 1 on 1 by RBs before.

CC.SD
08-26-2008, 07:35 PM
If I'm an OC, and I really need that extra RB or TE to chip on Merriman (though I've seen rushbackers blocked by sliding guards in some zone schemes, not as good as Merriman, mind you, but something to keep in mind), why wouldn't I just have that guy chip, then run him out into the flat? Not only is Merriman effectively blocked, but I now have a safety valve option for my QB. Also, I think you're slightly overrating Merriman. He's been blocked 1 on 1 by RBs before.

That can work on a play by play basis, but I feel like over the course of a game, with the way Merriman can get moved around sometimes, plus his tendency to be faster/stronger than anyone who would just chip him then go, he would eventually break through. Merriman isn't Superman, but he does have a beast mode on clutch downs most of the time.

bigbluedefense
08-26-2008, 07:37 PM
If I'm an OC, and I really need that extra RB or TE to chip on Merriman (though I've seen rushbackers blocked by sliding guards in some zone schemes, not as good as Merriman, mind you, but something to keep in mind), why wouldn't I just have that guy chip, then run him out into the flat? Not only is Merriman effectively blocked, but I now have a safety valve option for my QB. Also, I think you're slightly overrating Merriman. He's been blocked 1 on 1 by RBs before.

bc the brush and go is easier said than done. also a zone blitz effectively negates that.

Merriman superficially has looked like he's been blocked by a RB, but thats a result of the scheme and blitz leading to an unblocked guy, who sometimes happens to be Merriman. believe me, the OC didn't draw it up that way.

its a great discussion to have. we're talking chalkboard football. of course on the field, paper goes out the window. but its always cool to go back to how it all works in the war room.

its all a cat and mouse game at the end of the day.

CC.SD
08-26-2008, 07:57 PM
bc the brush and go is easier said than done. also a zone blitz effectively negates that.

Merriman superficially has looked like he's been blocked by a RB, but thats a result of the scheme and blitz leading to an unblocked guy, who sometimes happens to be Merriman. believe me, the OC didn't draw it up that way.

its a great discussion to have. we're talking chalkboard football. of course on the field, paper goes out the window. but its always cool to go back to how it all works in the war room.

its all a cat and mouse game at the end of the day.

Yeah, God knows this board needs more legitimate football talk.

If there really was a magic bullet to blocking Merriman, he probably wouldn't be leading the league in sacks since he was drafted. Every strategy has a counter strategy, and forcing an offense to adapt to him is Merriman's greatest strength. A gamechanger in the truest sense.

Burns336
08-26-2008, 09:02 PM
That can work on a play by play basis, but I feel like over the course of a game, with the way Merriman can get moved around sometimes, plus his tendency to be faster/stronger than anyone who would just chip him then go, he would eventually break through. Merriman isn't Superman, but he does have a beast mode on clutch downs most of the time.

EDIT: nevermind, done arguing about this prick. I hope he's done. Hollywood asshole.

Twiddler
08-26-2008, 09:42 PM
That said, it's a bad, risky decision if this is true. Not that I'll be minding the first time he blindsides a QB.

I agree. He should be doing what is in his best interest because the team won't be returning favors once it is time for him to re-sign. What he is doing may be considered noble and gutsy, but at the same time it could be a pretty stupid move, financially and health-wise.

yourfavestoner
08-26-2008, 09:44 PM
If he plays he'll be nothing more than a decoy. They will put him out there only to force teams to put the TE on his side of the field or keep a RB back in blocking. I seriously don't expect the Chargers to allow him to play at full speed. However, if Kevin Acee is right they might just say screw it and let him risk hurting himself more for a few extra wins knowing he isn't playing in SD in 2010

Bingo. They're gonna run him into the ground and not resign him. It's actually a brilliant move by the Chargers front office.

Merriman is an idiot if he plays this year. He's going to be in line to be the highest paid player in the NFL after the 2009 season, and he's going to **** it all up by playing this year.

CC.SD
08-26-2008, 09:55 PM
The context in which he used them was to imply that he was judging them as OLB's who were GOOD in coverage but he thought Merriman was better.

If he didn't think those players were relevant in the discussion of good coverage OLB's than he could have just listed Merriman and left it at that, or he should have listed every other 3-4 OLB in the league. He specifically mentioned them because he thought they were others who should be mentioned among good cover OLB's

Learn 2 think. K plz thx.

No, your thought process is incredibly flawed, and assuming you know what I was thinking about...odd. Sorry that I mentioned a Cowboy in my list of throwaways I guess?

Please seriously consider taking your own advice, in both learning to think, and staying out of this argument. Even facetiously, pointing out that Ware is rated a point higher on Madden...well let's just say that's not going to win a whole lot of respect from people who know football.

Sorry for the crankiness in a thread that's finally settling down all, but someone just blatantly misinterpreting what I said, and then dressing down CutlerChris when he corrects him, gets under my skin a little bit.

Dam8610
08-26-2008, 10:23 PM
bc the brush and go is easier said than done. also a zone blitz effectively negates that.

Merriman superficially has looked like he's been blocked by a RB, but thats a result of the scheme and blitz leading to an unblocked guy, who sometimes happens to be Merriman. believe me, the OC didn't draw it up that way.

its a great discussion to have. we're talking chalkboard football. of course on the field, paper goes out the window. but its always cool to go back to how it all works in the war room.

its all a cat and mouse game at the end of the day.

Everything is easier on the chalkboard than on the field. I'd argue that Dwight Freeney is or at least has been at his best, one of the most feared edge/pass rushers in the league, and the most efficient way I've ever seen a team that didn't have an elite tackle (really the only player I've ever seen block Dwight Freeney 1-on-1 for an entire game is Willie Roaf) block him was to either have their TE chip and run some sort of short pattern, or have their RB chip and run into the flat. Obviously there are some caveats to this, such as Freeney will 9 times out of 10 be coming from the QB's left whereas Merriman moves around more, and devoting two blockers to a rushbacker is going to cause a lot more problems if he doesn't come on that given play, but if you have a smart QB and adequate pass blockers at TE and RB that can quickly adjust to the situation, a chip and go should be enough to take care of it. Obviously you're not going to keep talented players from getting their job done for the entire game, but that's probably the best plan to prevent him from doing as much as you possibly can while still minimizing the potential loss of things your offense is capable of doing. As for RBs blocking Merriman 1-on-1, I know there's no way the OC would draw it up that way (unless of course he wanted his QB killed), but my point was it has happened, and while he's a talented player, he's not an unstoppable force. Nothing is unstoppable.

yourfavestoner
08-26-2008, 10:54 PM
The only thing you need to stop Shawne Merriman is some MJD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXeAG2VuBo0

LonghornsLegend
08-26-2008, 11:08 PM
I love how the cowboy fans somehow turned this into another merriman vs ware debate and to DMWSackmachine you say how sensitive we are, once someone said merriman > ware yall get defensive, so dont be so hypocritical.

Thats not just cowboy fans that do that, Merriman and Ware are attached to eachother, they will ALWAYS be attached, when ones name is brought up so will the others, they will always be compared, Cowboys fans had nothing to do with that...It has to do with the fact that they were drafted right behind eachother, both DE's turned OLB's in 3-4 defenses, and two of the more feared players in the game, its only natural that they get compared, and who not? It's all good discussion, and I think when people say Merriman is a better overall player then Ware there is reason to dispute, although it could depend on the person and what they want from the LB.



I'll be the first to agree Merriman's coverage skills are underrated, he's not terrible or bad, I would say he is solid to good, he's just not on the level that Ware is when it comes to coverage, nor is he when talking about overall football player...Ware's pass rushing skills are underrated because people act as if Merriman is this unstoppable force pass rushing while Ware is just good, I think there was a thread made last year that showed Ware was called for offsides when he beat the DE and forced the fumbled...On the video you could actually see he was never offsides, he has an uncanny ability for judging the snap and bending his body close to the ground to turn the corner which gives the LT a very little window to get hands on him...If he wasn't in a vanilla scheme which Parcells ran(sit back, react to the offense) and was in a Wade Phillips defense(attack, get after the QB) to start his career, the sack totals would look completely different...If somebody would gauge how many times each guy actually blitzed their first two seasons I am 100% sure you would see the disparity in how often Ware was asked to sit back in a zone.



I have nothing against Merriman, he was actually one of my favorite players so I love to watch him, and I agree with the Chargers poster who said he goes into 'beast mode' in the clutch, I've witnessed it in some of their hugest games...But if somebody watches film of both players, I don't think they would come away with Merriman being the superior player, hell or even pass rush, and thats not even bringing up the fact Merriman was juicing and nobody, not even Chargers fans know how that impacted his play...Does that suck? Sure it does, because as a fan you wan't to believe he would of been just as good, but you can blame Merriman for that, those are the things that come with the territory, and he brought that on himself that his play would be brought into question.

Paranoidmoonduck
08-26-2008, 11:13 PM
The Ware v. Merriman question is an interesting one (and one that might be moot after this injury).

Ware is an amazing player, but Merriman sacks the quarterback better than anyone in the league. He's the only guy to average over a sack per start in the NFL and he leads the group by a huge margin. Whether you stress that in a 3-4 outside linebacker's job or not is up to you, but if you asked me to look into the future with both players (not counting the injury) I'd say that Ware is probably a 120 sack or so player. I would have said that Merriman was the only guy in the league with a feasible shot at the 200 sack mark. He is (or was) dominant in that one aspect like no one in the league is.

bantx
08-27-2008, 12:13 AM
Thats not just cowboy fans that do that, Merriman and Ware are attached to eachother, they will ALWAYS be attached, when ones name is brought up so will the others, they will always be compared, Cowboys fans had nothing to do with that...It has to do with the fact that they were drafted right behind eachother, both DE's turned OLB's in 3-4 defenses, and two of the more feared players in the game, its only natural that they get compared, and who not? It's all good discussion, and I think when people say Merriman is a better overall player then Ware there is reason to dispute, although it could depend on the person and what they want from the LB.



I'll be the first to agree Merriman's coverage skills are underrated, he's not terrible or bad, I would say he is solid to good, he's just not on the level that Ware is when it comes to coverage, nor is he when talking about overall football player...Ware's pass rushing skills are underrated because people act as if Merriman is this unstoppable force pass rushing while Ware is just good, I think there was a thread made last year that showed Ware was called for offsides when he beat the DE and forced the fumbled...On the video you could actually see he was never offsides, he has an uncanny ability for judging the snap and bending his body close to the ground to turn the corner which gives the LT a very little window to get hands on him...If he wasn't in a vanilla scheme which Parcells ran(sit back, react to the offense) and was in a Wade Phillips defense(attack, get after the QB) to start his career, the sack totals would look completely different...If somebody would gauge how many times each guy actually blitzed their first two seasons I am 100% sure you would see the disparity in how often Ware was asked to sit back in a zone.



I have nothing against Merriman, he was actually one of my favorite players so I love to watch him, and I agree with the Chargers poster who said he goes into 'beast mode' in the clutch, I've witnessed it in some of their hugest games...But if somebody watches film of both players, I don't think they would come away with Merriman being the superior player, hell or even pass rush, and thats not even bringing up the fact Merriman was juicing and nobody, not even Chargers fans know how that impacted his play...Does that suck? Sure it does, because as a fan you wan't to believe he would of been just as good, but you can blame Merriman for that, those are the things that come with the territory, and he brought that on himself that his play would be brought into question.

I agree with you about neither of them being far better than each other, theyre two different types of linebackers used in 2 different schemes, its hard to say that one if better than the other when one of them plays a totally different way than the other. Its a real close between them, but the homer in me will always tell me to pick merriman.

DMWSackMachine
08-27-2008, 02:37 AM
I am a little surprised at the hyperbole, BBD. I really am.

Don't get me wrong, I respect Shawne's game, and I give him his props as a fearsome pass rusher who is right in the conversation whenever we talk about elite pass rushers in the NFL. I just think you got carried away in this particular instance. Points in case:

1) It is unequivocally, unilaterally, and unarguably NOT true that he is constantly being double teamed. I have watched all or large parts of at least half of San Diego's games over the last three years--as I usually end up with Gates in several of my FF leagues, not to mention they are a good team and usually very fun to watch--each with a particular eye on Shawne Merriman on, more or less, every down. He is doubled no more than any other of the elite pass rushers in the league. I don't know where you got this, but I'm going to have to call BS here.

If you want to see double teamed, actually, I noticed last season in the few games that I watched of KC that Jared Allen was getting an incredible amount of attention. One particular game (wish I could remember the opponent....might have been Minny, but not sure) he got double on 3 consecutive plays and got a sack, a PD, and a hit on the QB. I'm not a huge fan of his, but I've never seen--in admittedly limited viewership--a player get more attention then him. Miles more than Merriman.

2) Even if such a thing were true, I think you miss out on the most essential truth that any offense is faced with: you simply cannot double two players at the same time. Ok, maybe for a play here or there you can do it, but in this league, you cannot double two guys every play. If your thesis were true, Jamal Williams would not be getting double teamed regularly, which he very often is. I don't think you understand what it means for an offense to have to commit SIX blockers every play to specific line assignments. That means that either the O has to keep an additional FB or HB in the backfield to pick up blitzers or risk hanging its QB out to dry on a regular basis. This is clearly not happening and if it was the Chargers would have 60+ sacks every single year along with crazy numbers against the pass--particularly YPA and comp%. A quick look has them at 6.6 YPA (8th overall) and 60.9% comp (t17th). Although, it would make sense as a contributing factor to all those INTs (30!!) they piled up.


Still, given the evidence in our possession--only "good" pass D #s combined with ranking 6th in the L in sacks despite a bevy of pass rushers, etc etc....I think it is more than fair to say you at the very least embellished your analysis handsomely. Merriman is a very good, bordering on great, pass rusher, but he isn't all that and a bag of HGH.


...sorry, I couldn't help myself :P

CC.SD
08-27-2008, 01:45 PM
We now skip past DMW's incredibly repetitive stance on Merriman to bring you actual news...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20080827-9999-1bn27chargers.html

He's going to play.

"By Kevin Acee
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
Previous stories

Merriman visits another specialist (Wednesday, Aug. 27, 2008)



August 27, 2008

Chargers linebacker Shawne Merriman has decided to begin the season despite two torn ligaments in his left knee, he said this morning.
“I'm going to play,” Merriman said via text message to the Union-Tribune. “I'll deal with it when it's time to get surgery.”

Merriman, who returned from South Florida on Tuesday night, has decided against the recommendations of doctors to forego reconstructive surgery on the posterior cruciate and lateral collateral ligaments. Those doctors also told him he could play but that he risks what he described as “career-threatening” injury if he does.

The Chargers always have been optimistic Merriman would play. He was medically cleared by the team before training camp.

Merriman, 24, has been to the Pro Bowl in each of his three NFL seasons. He embarked on a national tour to see orthopedists in the past week, the final stop being Coral Gables, Fla., on Monday and Tuesday. The specialist there was his fifth opinion, counting the Chargers.

None of these specialists told Merriman of any new injury, but they provided recommendations independent of the team. According to sources, all the doctors he saw in the past nine days could not believe he was still playing. They said the best course of action long-term was for him to have the ligaments reconstructed.

Merriman, whose contract with the Chargers expires after 2009, faces that surgery at some point, even if he were to make it through this season. He also has been told he should not be surprised if he can't play at the level to which he is accustomed.

The Chargers open the season Sept. 7 against the Carolina Panthers at Qualcomm Stadium."


Can we get a thread title change? I'll have my thoughts on this later.

princefielder28
08-27-2008, 02:03 PM
I think it all comes down to wanting to win now and not passing up the chance to win a title; all the awards and attention and money seem to be pushed aside and the chance to hoist the Lombardi Trophy has taken center stage.

yourfavestoner
08-27-2008, 02:05 PM
I just don't see the point in playing this year. They'll have to shut him down by week six.

DMWSackMachine
08-27-2008, 02:06 PM
Well, if that's legit, I would have mixed feelings on the subject.

First off, I'm happy he's playing, because I feel like the dichotomy between he and Ware make them both push themselves beyond what they would normally do in order to be the best of the best. This is true whether they admit it or not. Since this is good for DeMarcus, I'm all for it. Also, from a league-wide standpoint, its maybe the best player-to-player competition/rivalry going right now. Both players play the same position, are extremely close in level of play, were drafted next to each other in the same draft etc etc. And I would hate for the league to be diminished by losing that. So with all that said, I'm glad he's playing.

Still, the guy is a special talent, and long-term I feel like for the NFL to lose him would be a real crying shame. We need all the great players we can get. I am 100% positive that he will regret this if he goes forward and plays the year. Its just a matter or how long it will be until he does.

Larry
08-27-2008, 02:07 PM
Bad decision jeopardizing your career for one season.

Gay Ork Wang
08-27-2008, 02:21 PM
Im not really up to date. So what are his decisions beside?

Sit out a year because of surgery or Retiring? or is it only Retirement

locseti
08-27-2008, 02:25 PM
Excellent Merriman, play this yr so we will never have to face you again.

Vikes99ej
08-27-2008, 02:30 PM
Merriman is making a bad decision here. He's still so young. He'll only be 25 by the time next year rolls around, and I think the Chargers will able to replace his presence for now. They can still generate a nice pass rush with Phillips, Olshansky, Castillo, and maybe Tucker.

CC.SD
08-27-2008, 02:39 PM
Is this a good decision for Merriman's career? No. But honestly I don't think this is all as dramatic as it sounds or frankly, it wouldn't be happening. Merriman must be figuring that he'll need the surgery no matter what, and if he can still play right now, like he has been in practice, then he might as well give it a shot. The risks involved are obvious, but the guy obviously has a big heart and feels like he play a season in the NFL right now; We don't know all the details, but I don't think Shawne would put his entire career on the line if he didn't think it would be worth it. He's definitely putting the team ahead of himself, and that's very admirable.

Whatever the result ends up being, you have to appreciate a player who obviously loves the game as much as Merriman does. Barring further injury (that's a tough one to guarantee), I don't doubt that he'll be ferocious this season, although maybe not as big and bad as the last few years.

I'm concerned with the douches in the NFL who took shots at him when he was healthy; their eyes must be lighting up now. Then again, this Charger team is as loaded as any in the NFL and the window will never be wider than 2008; obviously Merriman wants to be a part of that.

All I can say, ultimately, is that I really hope it works out for the best and ends up being worth it. What else is there to add?

rocco31fb
08-27-2008, 02:40 PM
Looks like the bolts are thinking this is their last best shot at the title.

MetSox17
08-27-2008, 02:54 PM
I hope the Chargers remember this when it's time to pony up the cash. If he takes the surgery to preserve his longevity he's selfish, if he doesn't, he's an idiot. Either way he loses, but he loses worst playing right now. He's not gonna be as effective as he should be, and he's risking further damage to his knee. Anything short of the Superbowl for the Chargers now will be looked as epic failure.

CC.SD
08-27-2008, 02:54 PM
The biggest impact Merriman will have this year is on Shaun Phillips; no more juuuuuuuuust barely beating him to the QB. :D

Geo
08-27-2008, 03:08 PM
If his career ends because of this, he has only himself to blame. There isn't a single other soul to point a finger of blame to.

D-Unit
08-27-2008, 03:18 PM
He should give LaVar Arrington a call. This is stupid.

awfullyquiet
08-27-2008, 03:20 PM
Very stupid.

If he's not good this year because he doesn't have the speed. He's pumping drugs so he doesn't feel the pain... He's an idiot and, watch, on national television, his leg will blow out, and he'll flip over like a fool.

JK17
08-27-2008, 03:26 PM
I can't say I agree with him, risking his career like this. But this does speak more to his character, and proves those wrong who keep saying "Merriman doesn't care about anything but himself." He's risking his career and future contracts to try and win a Super Bowl.

EDIT: OF course though, like I said, I wish he would just skip the season. I don't want to have to cringe every hit wondering if his career is now over.

Chucky
08-27-2008, 03:31 PM
I can't say I agree with him, risking his career like this. But this does speak more to his character, and proves those wrong who keep saying "Merriman doesn't care about anything but himself." He's risking his career and future contracts to try and win a Super Bowl.

EDIT: OF course though, like I said, I wish he would just skip the season. I don't want to have to cringe every hit wondering if his career is now over.

Or maybe its that he doesnt want to have surgery now, take the risk of not having to do it, so he can get a bigger payday after playing the whole season

JK17
08-27-2008, 03:35 PM
Or maybe its that he doesnt want to have surgery now, take the risk of not having to do it, so he can get a bigger payday after playing the whole season

He knows he is going to need surgery eventually. So he's not taking the risk of not having to do it. He could be trying to prove his loyalty, but Shawne knows he can get a fat contract somewhere whether he plays this year or not. He also knows hes risking his career, because he wants to play. He's not playing this year for a contract, he's doing it becuase he wants to win.

That's of course just my opinion based on what I know about him. The only person who really knows his motive is Shawne, I'm just giving my take on it.

Staubach12
08-27-2008, 03:35 PM
Wow, it's a shame to see a career like this be put on the line. He's really not doing the smartest thing.

Sportsfan486
08-27-2008, 03:36 PM
Unfortunate decision by Merriman. Every blocker he goes against is going to be cutting for that knee. I think he just threw away his career. I hope I'm wrong but it's not a wise move at all, especially when he could (and probably will) get injured in one of the first few games and be unable to walk for a while.

JK17
08-27-2008, 03:38 PM
Unfortunate decision by Merriman. Every blocker he goes against is going to be cutting for that knee. I think he just threw away his career. I hope I'm wrong but it's not a wise move at all, especially when he could (and probably will) get injured in one of the first few games and be unable to walk for a while.

I agree, I really wish he took the surgery. Not every NFL player is dirty, but plenty are and it's only a matter of time before someone guns for a career-ender.

Smooth Criminal
08-27-2008, 03:40 PM
Hopefully he made the right decision. I would hate for such a dominant young player to end his career at this point.

I really wish he would have gotten the surgery. But then again, even surgeries arn't guarenteed to work.

NY+Giants=NYG
08-27-2008, 03:45 PM
This is a very dumb decision by Merriman. End your season and think long term health and longevity in football, and outside of it.

Splat
08-27-2008, 03:48 PM
This is a bad move we all ready know he is a tuff SOB he doesn't have to play to prove that every one knows he has a bad knee it will be a target.

I'am a huge Chiefs fan but even bigger NFL fan I don't want to see a player take such a huge risk when he could shut it down for a year and be good to go next year.

That all being said only SM could make this decision I wish him well and hope it works out for him good luck.

Average OT LB
08-27-2008, 03:52 PM
I think its outstanding that he's gonna play. This is a tremendous show of toughness and loyalty to his teammates, he knows this is a win now team and with tomlinson reaching the end of his career who knows how many more years he'll have this opportunity to win? Being safe and playing smart got alot of people alot of money and wins... but its the irrationally ballsy decisions like this that show heart and guts and the (his) fans love it. What did willis reed ever really contribute to his team when he played hurt? not much 4 points and a dose of inspiration, like the team didnt want to win anyway.. Merriman's got 16 games to show us why he should be mentioned in the same breath..

Chucky
08-27-2008, 03:56 PM
I think its outstanding that he's gonna play. This is a tremendous show of toughness and loyalty to his teammates, he knows this is a win now team and with tomlinson reaching the end of his career who knows how many more years he'll have this opportunity to win? Being safe and playing smart got alot of people alot of money and wins... but its the irrationally ballsy decisions like this that show heart and guts and the (his) fans love it. What did willis reed ever really contribute to his team when he played hurt? not much 4 points and a dose of inspiration, like the team didnt want to win anyway.. Merriman's got 16 games to show us why he should be mentioned in the same breath..

Unless he wins MVP or something, he will not be mentioned in the same breath as Willis Reed, Bobby Baun, and Tiger Woods

Average OT LB
08-27-2008, 04:00 PM
Unless he wins MVP or something, he will not be mentioned in the same breath as Willis Reed, Bobby Baun, and Tiger Woods

What if they win the super bowl?

PackerLegend
08-27-2008, 04:05 PM
He will not make it long without hurting it... This is a bad decision and even worse considiring his age.

Chucky
08-27-2008, 04:06 PM
What if they win the super bowl?

It depends how he would perform, but I doubt it. The story would be old news by that time

Average OT LB
08-27-2008, 04:11 PM
It depends how he would perform, but I doubt it. The story would be old news by that time

it would not doubt be old news during the course of the season, but if we were to reach the playoffs the national coverage would undoubtedly revisit merriman's injury.

Average OT LB
08-27-2008, 04:12 PM
He will not make it long without hurting it... This is a bad decision and even worse considiring his age.

who is to say thats true? other than common sense, there is no report saying that is likely.

CC.SD
08-27-2008, 04:15 PM
who is to say thats true? other than common sense, there is no report saying that is likely.

Yes, other than common sense. :D Hey, Merriman is taking a big risk, that's the bottom line. But that's his decision; might as well hope he beasts it on the field the entire season and boosts LTs shot at a ring all the more.

Borat
08-27-2008, 04:32 PM
LT should man-up like Merriman is doing.

**Borat ducks**

awfullyquiet
08-27-2008, 04:48 PM
no merriman. no chance for the chargers.

eaglesfan_45
08-27-2008, 04:48 PM
Wow, REALLY stupid decision, I can't explain how stupid I think this is. Is Merriman ******** (special-ed.)? I think so. Lets go out and ruin what could've potentially been a great career! Yay!

bantx
08-27-2008, 04:54 PM
LT should man-up like Merriman is doing.

**Borat ducks**

Are we back to that? Do u know how bad LT injury was? Do some research before u tell someone to "man-up".

ATLDirtyBirds
08-27-2008, 04:59 PM
Risky, risky. I can't say I'd do the same thing as him. I would expect another great season if he can make it through, but the future? Eh. He better make sure that thing is super protected.

awfullyquiet
08-27-2008, 05:03 PM
Are we back to that? Do u know how bad LT injury was? Do some research before u tell someone to "man-up".

you man up

:):):):):):):):):):):):)

scottyboy
08-27-2008, 05:03 PM
seriously, one chip, and he's done. And you know guys will be thinking chip. i don't like the guy, but this is stupid

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-27-2008, 05:25 PM
LT should man-up like Merriman is doing.

**Borat ducks**

LDT made the right decision by sitting out of that game, whether it was a risk to his career or not. He only plays in the first place because he's the best option at RB. And as good as he is, him at 50% or even 70% is not as good as 100% Michael Turner. So by playing, he would not have made a positive impact, and hurt his team.


Also, I changed the thread title a while back for you all.

Burns336
08-27-2008, 05:32 PM
Are we back to that? Do u know how bad LT injury was? Do some research before u tell someone to "man-up".

Injury aside (no, I don't think he could have played) he should have been on the sideline cheering on his team, trying to motivate guys.

Instead, he sits on the bench and pouts like a ***** with a hood on the whole time...

Yeah, if I'm on the chargers I sure would love to look over at our star player and leader only to see him acting like a selfish punk on the bench, all bent out of shape because it can't be "his day to shine"

SuperKevin
08-27-2008, 05:35 PM
title shoud be changed to "Merriman is an idiot"

awfullyquiet
08-27-2008, 05:37 PM
title shoud be changed to "Merriman is an idiot"

I mean, that's obvious.

Merriman is a *****
(lets play a game, guess the five letter word!)

JK17
08-27-2008, 05:39 PM
I'm wondering how the Chargers plan to use him this year. I can't imagine him playing all 16 games + playoffs every down, and am curious what you guys think they will do. Maybe they only try to use him in pass rushing situations, and let Tucker play the other downs? Maybe they save him for the big games (i.e New England, Indy, Playoffs)? Who knows, jsut because he'll skip the surgery, maybe the Chargers don't risk him getting injured early so they can use him in the big situations later...

No inside info on the subject, just brainstorming because I can't imagine Shawne or San Diego assuming he can last the whole year.

awfullyquiet
08-27-2008, 05:41 PM
Really, if i was anyone in the chain of command on the chargers, i'd say. sit your ass down and ride the pine. we invest tons of money in you so, don't go **** it up and go wahoo. i'm going to get my knee torn off.

i don't know who the chargers think they are letting him even consider playing.

Borat
08-27-2008, 05:48 PM
Are we back to that? Do u know how bad LT injury was? Do some research before u tell someone to "man-up".

ahahahahaha. Fish in a barrel.

Burns336
08-27-2008, 05:49 PM
I don't understand this at all. I just heard the doctor on ESPN (take them for what they're worth) say that he needs those ligaments to move both laterally and front to back.... Soooooooo? WTF? Any way that he moves is putting him at risk?

Basically he could pull and Osi and just take himself out?

Plus he'll be playing in pain all year. Plus he is risking his financial security by jeopardizing his ability to play (next year) in his contract year. This just seems like something a caveman would decide to do.

I don't call this "brave" or "love for the game" -- I call this stupid.

Burns336
08-27-2008, 05:52 PM
Really, if i was anyone in the chain of command on the chargers, i'd say. sit your ass down and ride the pine. we invest tons of money in you so, don't go **** it up and go wahoo. i'm going to get my knee torn off.

i don't know who the chargers think they are letting him even consider playing.

The Chargers know they are a team who already has Merriman's successor in place, see that LT has to decline eventually, See that Merriman and Cromartie are both going to want to set records for being paid like the top defensive player in the league soon, see a bunch of key injuries already, and see that window starting to close...

I agree with you that someone on management should step up, but it seems like they are more concerned with doing what's right for the organization instead of doing what's best for Shawne.

BlindSite
08-27-2008, 06:17 PM
He'll play 2 snaps week one. over under?

CC.SD
08-27-2008, 06:18 PM
I don't understand this at all. I just heard the doctor on ESPN (take them for what they're worth) say that he needs those ligaments to move both laterally and front to back.... Soooooooo? WTF? Any way that he moves is putting him at risk?

Basically he could pull and Osi and just take himself out?

Plus he'll be playing in pain all year. Plus he is risking his financial security by jeopardizing his ability to play (next year) in his contract year. This just seems like something a caveman would decide to do.

I don't call this "brave" or "love for the game" -- I call this stupid.

I don't understand your anger. Early in this very page you start bashing LT, completely unrelated...what's up, man?

Merriman can do what he wants; I honestly don't believe we the fans have all the information...there's simply no way his knee is in as bad a shape as we've been led to believe if he's been practicing fine all Summer and now, after 4 doctor consultations, he's ready to take it into battle for a full season.

For better or worse, the Chargers docs have cleared him to play; given that it looks like AJ has already chosen Cromartie over Merriman, I can't say I don't support the decision, as lame (no pun intended) as it might turn out. This team needs a Super Bowl ring and Merriman wants it as bad as anyone else. He'll make an impact this year, or he won't and we'll be just as without him come playoff time as we would have been had he gone under the knife ten minutes ago.

The entire situation sucks, but I for one am wiping the sweat off my brow that at least Merriman will be on the field for us this year as long as he can.

SuperKevin
08-27-2008, 06:18 PM
He'll play 2 snaps week one. over under?

He'll play the opening series more likely than not and I can see him playing late in the game if the Panthers are forced to throw to stay in the game.

CC.SD
08-27-2008, 06:57 PM
For what it's worth, Merriman apparently said in his press conference that this whole situation isn't career threatening...

SuperKevin
08-27-2008, 06:59 PM
For what it's worth, Merriman apparently said in his press conference that this whole situation isn't career threatening...

Of course Merriman is saying this. If he were to come out and say his career might be over then the target on his back is even larger.

skinzzfan25
08-27-2008, 07:04 PM
Bad move for football and financially.

The Chargers aren't going to want to retain damaged goods when his contract expires next year (I believe).

SuperKevin
08-27-2008, 07:05 PM
D-Unit said it best. Merriman needs to talk to LaVar Arrington about how quickly a career can be ended by playing hurt

Burns336
08-27-2008, 07:38 PM
I don't understand your anger. Early in this very page you start bashing LT, completely unrelated...what's up, man?

Merriman can do what he wants; I honestly don't believe we the fans have all the information...there's simply no way his knee is in as bad a shape as we've been led to believe if he's been practicing fine all Summer and now, after 4 doctor consultations, he's ready to take it into battle for a full season.

For better or worse, the Chargers docs have cleared him to play; given that it looks like AJ has already chosen Cromartie over Merriman, I can't say I don't support the decision, as lame (no pun intended) as it might turn out. This team needs a Super Bowl ring and Merriman wants it as bad as anyone else. He'll make an impact this year, or he won't and we'll be just as without him come playoff time as we would have been had he gone under the knife ten minutes ago.

The entire situation sucks, but I for one am wiping the sweat off my brow that at least Merriman will be on the field for us this year as long as he can.

all I'm saying is would you rather have Merriman till week 6 this year and watch him blow out his knee and jeopardize his career/ playing next year -- or would you rather have him next year for certain?

Like I posted up above - I heard the doctor on ESPN say he could do unrepairable damage if he plays with the injuries that he currently has. Taking that, along with the fact that 4 doctors recommended season ending surgery and the fact that Merriman just said it could be career threatening 3 days ago, I would guess that this injury is in fact, career threatening.

CC.SD
08-27-2008, 08:09 PM
all I'm saying is would you rather have Merriman till week 6 this year and watch him blow out his knee and jeopardize his career/ playing next year -- or would you rather have him next year for certain?

Like I posted up above - I heard the doctor on ESPN say he could do unrepairable damage if he plays with the injuries that he currently has. Taking that, along with the fact that 4 doctors recommended season ending surgery and the fact that Merriman just said it could be career threatening 3 days ago, I would guess that this injury is in fact, career threatening.

If you're honestly asking what I want (too few people do these days, between wife, boss and parents!) I'd like to see Merriman rest and rehab the knee and then come back around week 13 for the stretch run/playoffs as a pass rushing specialist.

Given the reality of the situation, I've long since accepted that whatever will be, will be, and I've just got to watch and enjoy the ride and hope it ends well. As risky as it is, the Charger D will be noticeably better with Merriman out there, so if that's the way it's going to be, I'm going to embrace it and hope for the best.


A very respected poster on the Charger boards came up with this:


Originally Posted by JoeMcRugby
From Merriman's press conference (paraphrased as I heard snippets from 1090):

"It's not career threatening. I'm just make sure because I don't want to be misquoted again. The thing that was picked up the other day was me repeating the question. It's not career threatening."

"It's the same thing that I played with the last 6 games last year."




From Shaun Phillips' interview on 1090 a few minutes ago:

"He can have the same surgery now or he can try to play and have it after the season."