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View Full Version : Cardinals to name Kurt Warner starter


M.O.T.H.
08-24-2008, 01:14 PM
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=449272



It looks like Matt Leinart (javascript:fantasyPopup('nfl', 7759)) may have blown his chance at the starting job. Kurt Warner (javascript:fantasyPopup('nfl', 4541)) is expected to be named the team's starter, according to a report by ESPN.com

Leinart has struggled this preseason and further hurt his cause to hold down the No. 1 spot by throwing three interceptions Saturday against the Raiders. He finished the game with a passer rating of 2.8.

Warner, 37, started 11 games for the Cardinals last season, stepping in after Leinart suffered a season-ending collarbone injury. Warner threw for 3,417 yards and 27 touchdowns last season.
Leinart was the tenth overall pick in the 2006 draft.

Wootylicous
08-24-2008, 01:16 PM
Somewhere fenikz is crying.

Menardo75
08-24-2008, 01:21 PM
Well after his performance last night this was expected

UKfan
08-24-2008, 01:21 PM
Ugh, and my backup QB... becomes a backup QB, le sigh.

Crickett
08-24-2008, 01:22 PM
Wow, what happened to Matt Leiart?
And Winston Justice?
And Reggie Bush?
And Mike Williams?
And Winston Justice?
And Dwayne Jarrett?
And Deuce Lutui?
And Keary Colbert?

eaglesfan_45
08-24-2008, 01:23 PM
Wow, what happened to Matt Leiart?
And Winston Justice?
And Reggie Bush?
And Mike Williams?
And Winston Justice?
And Dwayne Jarrett?
And Deuce Lutui?
And Keary Colbert?

Epic Failzz happened :(

bored of education
08-24-2008, 01:23 PM
Warner ftw! *hands fenikz tissues*

BeerBaron
08-24-2008, 01:24 PM
Ugh, and my backup QB... becomes a backup QB, le sigh.

jump on the waiver wire and grab Warner... he can't be too awful of a backup throwing to Fitzgerald and Boldin.

But yeah, this seems to suck in the long term for the Cards. Warner might get them through the next year or two but Leinart was supposed to be the franchise in the future...

brat316
08-24-2008, 01:24 PM
Wow, what happened to Matt Leiart?
And Winston Justice?
And Reggie Bush?
And Mike Williams?
And Winston Justice?
And Dwayne Jarrett?
And Deuce Lutui?
And Keary Colbert?

Darnell Bing?


I am telling you most Pete Carol players are made great because of the scheme they play in.



I think Matt needs a WCO, like Garcia not a great arm, but then again Garcia has better accuracy.

Menardo75
08-24-2008, 01:25 PM
Wow, what happened to Matt Leiart?
And Winston Justice?
And Reggie Bush?
And Mike Williams?
And Winston Justice?
And Dwayne Jarrett?
And Deuce Lutui?
And Keary Colbert?

Deuce is still starting atleast Reggie is not bad lol :)

soybean
08-24-2008, 01:30 PM
Im a big USC and cards fan but if i had to guess i think it's just poor work ethic.

Jensen
08-24-2008, 01:33 PM
Not good news. If Leinart can't beat out a 37 year old Kurt Warner for the starting spot, something is seriously wrong with Leinart. Picking him 10th overall is starting to look worse and worse.

bantx
08-24-2008, 01:34 PM
i predicted this to happen in the regular season but for this to happen this early is bad for leinart horrible performance by him, and fenikz hate to say it but i told u so :]

BeerBaron
08-24-2008, 01:34 PM
Not good news. If Leinart can't beat out a 37 year old Kurt Warner for the starting spot, something is seriously wrong with Leinart. Picking him 10th overall is starting to look worse and worse.

anyone remember back before that draft when I think it was Merrill Hodge was saying that Vince Young shouldn't even be a first round pick while Leinart was the best damn QB teh everzzz...

Right.

BamaFalcon59
08-24-2008, 01:35 PM
This is like Marshawn Lynch, but with bust.

UKfan
08-24-2008, 01:40 PM
jump on the waiver wire and grab Warner... he can't be too awful of a backup throwing to Fitzgerald and Boldin.

But yeah, this seems to suck in the long term for the Cards. Warner might get them through the next year or two but Leinart was supposed to be the franchise in the future...

If only... 20 team league, Warner was picked up.

BeerBaron
08-24-2008, 01:42 PM
If only... 20 team league, Warner was picked up.

damn. I always liked trying to stay in smaller leagues....12 was my limit, lol. 20 seems intense

Geo
08-24-2008, 01:45 PM
Not good news. If Leinart can't beat out a 37 year old Kurt Warner for the starting spot, something is seriously wrong with Leinart. Picking him 10th overall is starting to look worse and worse.
Leinart isn't hot stuff, but to be fair Warner in still good playing in a dome, in the NFC West, with Boldin, Fitz, Edge, and Leonard Pope.

UKfan
08-24-2008, 01:47 PM
damn. I always liked trying to stay in smaller leagues....12 was my limit, lol. 20 seems intense

It's the one JBond is running, it is intense, I have Ahman Green and Ernest Wilford starting, says it all.

Jensen
08-24-2008, 01:49 PM
Leinart isn't hot stuff, but to be fair Warner in still good playing in a dome, in the NFC West, with Boldin, Fitz, Edge, and Leonard Pope.

I know Warner still has some gas in the tank, but Leinart is supposed to be the Cards franchise QB. To be beat out for the starting job in his 3rd year by Warner is not good.

Geo
08-24-2008, 01:50 PM
I'm sure certain people will bring up the other 2006 quarterbacks in criticism of Leinart, but Warner is better than Patrick Ramsey (Denver) and Kerry Collins (Tennesee) combined.

soybean
08-24-2008, 01:52 PM
anyone remember back before that draft when I think it was Merrill Hodge was saying that Vince Young shouldn't even be a first round pick while Leinart was the best damn QB teh everzzz...

Right.

whaaaaat? meril hodge NEVER liked matt leinart.

also, neither have shown anything thus far. I'd question even if i'd take vince young over matt leinart.

bearsfan_51
08-24-2008, 01:55 PM
Warner has always been incredibly underrated, I currently have him as my 11th best quarterback in the NFL right now.

The fact that Leinart couldn't beat him out is a no-brainer honestly. I can't believe people are suprised that Leinart is a bust. I thought this is was pretty well accepted.

bearsfan_51
08-24-2008, 01:56 PM
Yeah, that's totally false. Hoge liked Cutler, Cutler was the only one he liked, and he had Kellen Clemens 2nd.

Hoge gets a lot of ****, but he's pretty accurate in his assessments.

BeerBaron
08-24-2008, 01:57 PM
whaaaaat? meril hodge NEVER liked matt leinart.

also, neither have shown anything thus far. I'd question even if i'd take vince young over matt leinart.

must not have been Hodge then, but one of the ESPN nut cases who tries to talk football was convinced that Leinart was a god and VY shouldn't have even been a first rounder.... Could have sworn it was Hodge though...

Geo
08-24-2008, 01:58 PM
whaaaaat? meril hodge NEVER liked matt leinart.

also, neither have shown anything thus far. I'd question even if i'd take vince young over matt leinart.
And Jay Cutler hasn't quarterbacked a winning season since high school. Oh, 2006 Draft. :rolleyes:

My memory is a bit fuzzy, but I seem to recall Hoge saying he wouldn't spend a 1st round pick on either Leinart or Young. Again, I could be remembering that wrong. Also, Hoge loves AD and thinks he's the best RB in the league now.

BeerBaron
08-24-2008, 02:00 PM
hmm...i don't remember either but I know VY got crapped on all over by someone who liked Leinart.

bantx
08-24-2008, 02:01 PM
at least VY can run

bearsfan_51
08-24-2008, 02:09 PM
Hoge said that the only player worth a 1st rounder was Jay Cutler.

Geo
08-24-2008, 02:11 PM
Ah, thanks for the confirmation. I recalled it correctly then.

Hmm, I don't think I caught much of anything Hoge said of the 08 Draft. I avoided ESPN for the most part.

Staubach12
08-24-2008, 02:16 PM
Wow, this does not look good for Leinart. As much as I like him, this could be the end of the road for him as far as being an NFL starter if he doesn't win back this job.

GB12
08-24-2008, 02:26 PM
Kurt Warner is much better than Leinart and a good number of other QBs in the league. It'd be a shame if he had to ride the bench this year. That said he is 37 and the Cardinals are not even a playoff team. In this situation you have to go with the young guy to be the future. The fact that Arizona isn't doing that says a lot about how they feel about Leinart. BUST

Geo
08-24-2008, 02:32 PM
I think the Cardinals have a real shot at the playoffs if Warner starts the season, Seattle is weakened offensively.

BrownsTown
08-24-2008, 02:34 PM
Matt Leinart does very well the first two games, then bad against maybe the best secondary in the league and he's a bust. Warner's a damn good QB...I'm not ready to call Leinart a bust if he gets beat out by him.

LonghornsLegend
08-24-2008, 02:37 PM
Well this is great news for Fitz and Boldin, as well as their fantasy owners at least.

princefielder28
08-24-2008, 02:42 PM
This is a win now move by Arizona, and I give them props for that. Who gives a **** if you spent a high pick on a QB, play the guy who gives you the best chance to win....sounds familiar

Addict
08-24-2008, 02:55 PM
I have some thoughts about this:

1. Warner is no bum, he may not be a superstar but he's solid.
2. Leinart is still young and so far I haven't really seen the Cards FO commit to him as the QB of the future. I don't think Weisenhunt is very smitten with Leinart (who was a Denny Green pick, right?)
3. I still think Leinart will be a solid NFL quarterback.
4. Just for arguments' sake, yes, throwing 3 INTs is bad, but it's the Raiders secondary, who play good man to man, and with Fitz and Boldin not being speed demons, I can understand why it went so wrong. That said, I didn't see the game so I really can't judge.

Geo
08-24-2008, 03:01 PM
I just found out that Chris Mortensen is the ESPN guy reporting this. Take it with some grain of salt.

He did call Leinart starting in 2006 but was wrong by a week though. Maybe he has a good source in the Cards organization, I'm still leery however.

XxXdragonXxX
08-24-2008, 04:36 PM
This makes me happy.

CC.SD
08-24-2008, 04:59 PM
And Jay Cutler hasn't quarterbacked a winning season since high school. Oh, 2006 Draft. :rolleyes:

Didn't you get the memo? It's never, ever been Cutler's fault that he just can't get Ws.

BlindSite
08-24-2008, 05:01 PM
Wow, what happened to Matt Leiart?
And Winston Justice?
And Reggie Bush?
And Mike Williams?
And Winston Justice?
And Dwayne Jarrett?
And Deuce Lutui?
And Keary Colbert?

Leinart, Lutui, Colbert, Justice, Williams smell like busts.

Bush is looking good and is playing fairly well, he just hasn't become the universe beater people expected. Jarrett is making strides in the preseason and will probably start next season opposite smith.

Still 2 out of 7 isn't real good from a championship side.

Carroll is apparently a really soft head coach though, as in, he tries to me one of the boys, not their leader and it causes bad work habits. At least I know that was the case in Washington.
.


This is probably the best thing for the Cards and if Warner plays well then they have a legit shot to knock off the seahawks.

If Warner plays badly though, I wouldn't want to be in Whisenhunt's shoes.

Xonraider
08-24-2008, 05:08 PM
Im a big USC and cards fan but if i had to guess i think it's just poor work ethic.

Might be a good guess. So much talent in college, not much need to work very hard. Seems logical.

Geo
08-24-2008, 05:13 PM
If Warner plays badly though, I wouldn't want to be in Whisenhunt's shoes.
Then the Cardinals could start Leinart, except then he wouldn't have all the pressure on his shoulders like he would if he was starting the season.

BlindSite
08-24-2008, 05:15 PM
True, but to be headcoach for two years and still not have a starting quarterback from week one to 16, isn't exactly a good thing for your resume.

Dam8610
08-24-2008, 05:17 PM
whaaaaat? meril hodge NEVER liked matt leinart.

also, neither have shown anything thus far. I'd question even if i'd take vince young over matt leinart.

Jay Cutler STILL > both

Geo
08-24-2008, 05:18 PM
Not that Wisenhunt should get the axe after only his second year, but he hasn't drafted "his guy" at quarterback yet. Smart thing to do, with money invested in Warner and Leinart, is to try and make the most of those guys first. And improve the rest of the team in the meantime, so if Wisenhunt does find his guy, he has a better chance to succeed.

Dam8610
08-24-2008, 05:22 PM
Didn't you get the memo? It's never, ever been Cutler's fault that he just can't get Ws.

Well, let's see, he chose the whipping boy of the SEC as his school, put up prolific offensive numbers, and had his defense give up game after game for him.

Then he got chosen by the Broncos, didn't play most of his first season, and last year, had his defense give up a bunch of games for him. If he ever had a halfway decent defense to work with, his team would probably be elite.

fenikz
08-24-2008, 05:24 PM
Somewhere fenikz is crying.

why would i be crying?

doingthisinsteadofwork
08-24-2008, 05:32 PM
Didn't you get the memo? It's never, ever been Cutler's fault that he just can't get Ws.
First he was on Vandy and now hes with Denver.You cant blame him for playing on lousy teams.

soybean
08-24-2008, 06:09 PM
First he was on Vandy and now hes with Denver.You cant blame him for playing on lousy teams.

they were a playoff team before he became qb. as a matter of fact, they beat the patriots with plummer.

also he's thrown an INT in every game but 1 i think it is.

bearsfan_51
08-24-2008, 06:12 PM
Culter was on his way in at the same time Denver was on the way down. That's hardly his fault.

Menardo75
08-24-2008, 07:53 PM
I still think Denver has a little ways to go to be a playoff team. I know Jay Cutler is the best Qb that ever lived but they still need some work

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-24-2008, 08:17 PM
they were a playoff team before he became qb. as a matter of fact, they beat the patriots with plummer.

also he's thrown an INT in every game but 1 i think it is.

He hasn't thrown an INT in every game but 1. There have been about 5. Not great, but certainly better than any of the other 06 QBs. And seriously, suggesting that Cutler is the reason we suck is BEYOND idiocy. We started 7-2 in Cutler's rookie season. Our offense was TERRIBLE. Our defense was spectacular. Then for some reason the defense took a massive nosedive. We lost two games in a row, and Cutler came in. What happened when this rookie quarterback took over from a veteran? Why, our offense moved from TERRIBLE to not bad at all. We could actually move the ball. Our defense continued the slide, and went from historically good to awful in the same season. I did the math once before, and usually I don't wanna do it again, but **** it, I will.

The offense in the first 11 games of the season(Plummer starting):

17.3 ppg.

The offense in the last 5 games(Cutler starting):

24.8 ppg. Without ever scoring as few as 17 points(Plummer's average!)

The defense in the first nine games, really the only reason we were 7-2 in the first place:

12.3 ppg.

The defense in the final seven games, a stretch where we went 2-5(both wins to Cutler)

27.7 ppg. Without ever giving up less than 19 points.


So yeah, I guess it is all Cutler's damn fault. I mean, he can't win games, he can't tackle ball carriers, he can't pressure the opposing QB, he can't cover receivers. But you know what he can do? He can come in, as a rookie, and improve our offense by a touchdown per game. THAT is why it isn't his fault we suck, and that is also why you REALLY need to become informed before posting.

k.
thx.
bye.


EDIT: Actually, it's seven games he hasn't thrown a pick in. 7 of 21. Not great, but those are his first 21 career games. And he's thrown at least 1 TD in 17 of 21 games.

P-L
08-24-2008, 09:04 PM
Cutler hasn't been great, but he's shown more promise than Leinart and Young combined.

niel89
08-24-2008, 10:08 PM
I have some thoughts about this:

1. Warner is no bum, he may not be a superstar but he's solid.
2. Leinart is still young and so far I haven't really seen the Cards FO commit to him as the QB of the future. I don't think Weisenhunt is very smitten with Leinart (who was a Denny Green pick, right?)
3. I still think Leinart will be a solid NFL quarterback.
4. Just for arguments' sake, yes, throwing 3 INTs is bad, but it's the Raiders secondary, who play good man to man, and with Fitz and Boldin not being speed demons, I can understand why it went so wrong. That said, I didn't see the game so I really can't judge.

i was at the game. the picks were brutal. they were basically fly balls, if the D didnt pick them off they should be embarrassed. i think on the last one his arm might have been hit but still the others were ugly.

soybean
08-24-2008, 11:06 PM
He hasn't thrown an INT in every game but 1. There have been about 5. Not great, but certainly better than any of the other 06 QBs. And seriously, suggesting that Cutler is the reason we suck is BEYOND idiocy. We started 7-2 in Cutler's rookie season. Our offense was TERRIBLE. Our defense was spectacular. Then for some reason the defense took a massive nosedive. We lost two games in a row, and Cutler came in. What happened when this rookie quarterback took over from a veteran? Why, our offense moved from TERRIBLE to not bad at all. We could actually move the ball. Our defense continued the slide, and went from historically good to awful in the same season. I did the math once before, and usually I don't wanna do it again, but **** it, I will.

The offense in the first 11 games of the season(Plummer starting):

17.3 ppg.

The offense in the last 5 games(Cutler starting):

24.8 ppg. Without ever scoring as few as 17 points(Plummer's average!)

The defense in the first nine games, really the only reason we were 7-2 in the first place:

12.3 ppg.

The defense in the final seven games, a stretch where we went 2-5(both wins to Cutler)

27.7 ppg. Without ever giving up less than 19 points.


So yeah, I guess it is all Cutler's damn fault. I mean, he can't win games, he can't tackle ball carriers, he can't pressure the opposing QB, he can't cover receivers. But you know what he can do? He can come in, as a rookie, and improve our offense by a touchdown per game. THAT is why it isn't his fault we suck, and that is also why you REALLY need to become informed before posting.

k.
thx.
bye.


EDIT: Actually, it's seven games he hasn't thrown a pick in. 7 of 21. Not great, but those are his first 21 career games. And he's thrown at least 1 TD in 17 of 21 games.

no one said he sucked, but he's not some crazy gamer/top ten qb in the league yet.

he also had 11 fumbles all of last year

Iamcanadian
08-24-2008, 11:11 PM
Well, I picked Arizona as a possible surprise team but Leinart's failure and starting warner leave me cold. I see no way they are much more than an 8-8 team at best until they find a solid starting QB.

M.O.T.H.
08-24-2008, 11:32 PM
Well, I picked Arizona as a possible surprise team but Leinart's failure and starting warner leave me cold. I see no way they are much more than an 8-8 team at best until they find a solid starting QB.

Underestimating Warner just a tad there. He still has a lot of football left in him and did put together a great statistical season last year. Now, that didnt translate to a winning season because, of the defensive struggles but, the potential is there for the Cards to have a top notch offense this season w/ Warner leading the way. That team is going to score a lot of points. He did throw for over 300 yards per game and 27 Tds in 11 starts...yeah, the guy can still play at a very high level. Their season will hinge on the defense...Warner gives them the better chance to win now and a more potent offense, if anything this increases their chances to be successful.

fenikz
08-24-2008, 11:36 PM
Well, I picked Arizona as a possible surprise team but Leinart's failure and starting warner leave me cold. I see no way they are much more than an 8-8 team at best until they find a solid starting QB.

wow really?

we stand a much better chance this season with Warner at QB, i was simply pulling for Leinart for the long term

OzTitan
08-25-2008, 01:05 AM
Cutler hasn't been great, but he's shown more promise than Leinart and Young combined.

I think what Cutler has shown is more consistency. Vince Young has shown plenty of promise, arguably more than Cutler because Young has more to offer as a complete package if he does become a good passer, and it's not like he hasn't had games in the NFL where his passing and running were both kicking into higher gear showing what he could become. So he has shown the promise, it's just the consistency he lacks right now.

As for Leinart, he hasn't shown a whole lot of either, but he is still a 2 year pro QB who was injured last season. He is far from a bust yet. To Cardinals fans perhaps he will be soon, but it wouldn't be the first time a QB leaves his drafted team and flourishes elsewhere, maybe somewhere better suited. I mean I can understand the Cardinals wanting to go with Warner particularly if they feel they can take their division now, but if they're not going to give their top 10 QB more than 1.5 seasons and a meaningless preseason to develop, maybe they shouldn't have taken him. Despite the "polished senior pocket QB" tags handed out to prospects like Leinart these days come draft time, time is still often needed. Even though he isn't line Leinart as a player, just look at Steve Young's career. Leinart will still have chances yet.

BlindSite
08-25-2008, 01:51 AM
Cutler is right where he should be, he needs a defense and offensive line around him though and right now that is being built.

Menardo75
08-25-2008, 02:12 PM
Cutler is right where he should be, he needs a defense and offensive line around him though and right now that is being built.

Yeah I agree I think Clady will work out im still wondering when they are going to get a top flight runningback again though

P-L
08-25-2008, 02:54 PM
I think what Cutler has shown is more consistency. Vince Young has shown plenty of promise, arguably more than Cutler because Young has more to offer as a complete package if he does become a good passer, and it's not like he hasn't had games in the NFL where his passing and running were both kicking into higher gear showing what he could become. So he has shown the promise, it's just the consistency he lacks right now.
Yes you're right, consistency is probably the better word. Both Young and Leinart have shown plenty of promise and potential, but just not with enough frequency to make me believe they will ever get there.

OzTitan
08-25-2008, 08:27 PM
Well, the good news about consistency is it can just 'click', and has for many good QB's in the past. The progression to the top of the QB position in the NFL is rarely linear and predictable in a QB's career, it is often sudden and significant. I don't think the first few years in a QB's career are overly relevant to how his future years will play out, changes can be very rapid.

Consistency also can also be fickle and misleading. You don't always win the race by getting ahead first. Some QB's come in with reasonable consistency early but never really develop beyond that, failing to shrug off the inconsistencies which seemed few at first that prevent them from going to the next level. QB development is unique to each QB, so for both VY and Leinart and their consistency issues, I don't think it offers much insight into their futures. Look at a guy like Drew Brees.

Splat
08-25-2008, 08:39 PM
Cutler hasn't been great, but he's shown more promise than Leinart and Young combined.

I would take Cutler over either in a heart beat it ain't even close.

BamaFalcon59
08-25-2008, 08:49 PM
I was a Leinart fan when he was coming into the league, but I quickly fell off the bandwagon. Something about the Holywood intances and splitting time with a 37 year old turned me off.

holt_bruce81
08-26-2008, 12:25 AM
Whisenhunt has said the reports are false, and that as of now Leinart is still the starter.

fenikz
08-26-2008, 01:03 AM
In Whiz I trust, who ever he chooses is my guy.

BlindSite
08-26-2008, 01:21 AM
It makes sense at the very least to go with Leinart for a week or two and see how he goes in the regular season. They know what they have in warner.

Addict
08-26-2008, 03:19 AM
It makes sense at the very least to go with Leinart for a week or two and see how he goes in the regular season. They know what they have in warner.

I think Arizona's biggest problem right now is the fact they're being tipped as potential playoff team every year. Expectations like that can fire up a team, but I can imagine their constant faillure to live up to them actually holds them back. Ownership might be sick and tired of hearing it too, which in turn could mean Wisenhunt is feeling the pressure. Point is: they need to win now, they don't really have the time to give leinart a shot. If they go with him for 2 weeks, he might just dig them a 0-2 hole, which will make making the playoffs that much harder.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
08-26-2008, 11:31 AM
no one said he sucked, but he's not some crazy gamer/top ten qb in the league yet.

he also had 11 fumbles all of last year

they were a playoff team before he became qb. as a matter of fact, they beat the patriots with plummer.

also he's thrown an INT in every game but 1 i think it is.

Then what was the point of THIS post? You clearly suggest Cutler is the reason for Denver's turnaround. Which was the point of my post, that he wasn't at fault.

In fact, I've never even said he's a top 10 QB. I see him outside the top 10, in the 11-13 range, and that is where he stands right now.

CC.SD
08-26-2008, 11:33 AM
Don't look!





















Seriously turn away!












The great debate renewed!
OMG CLASS OF 2004 >>>>>>>>> 2006 U SUX

BlindSite
08-26-2008, 04:56 PM
I think Arizona's biggest problem right now is the fact they're being tipped as potential playoff team every year. Expectations like that can fire up a team, but I can imagine their constant faillure to live up to them actually holds them back. Ownership might be sick and tired of hearing it too, which in turn could mean Wisenhunt is feeling the pressure. Point is: they need to win now, they don't really have the time to give leinart a shot. If they go with him for 2 weeks, he might just dig them a 0-2 hole, which will make making the playoffs that much harder.

Yeah, fair enough, but still in the NFC West a 9-7 record might just be enough this year. There's a different between losing because of Leinart and having leinart as your QB when you lose. I think it's all going to depend on how well he plays when he should play well. I dunno whether I'm being stupid or not but what I saw of him in the limited games he's played and I've seen he honest to god looked like a player who could make some noise in this league.

bigbluedefense
08-26-2008, 05:02 PM
Don't look!





















Seriously turn away!












The great debate renewed!
OMG CLASS OF 2004 >>>>>>>>> 2006 U SUX

:)

Class of 2004: 2 Super Bowls, One AFC title game, and whatever Matt Schaub brings to the table this year.

Class of 2006: Jay Cutler + the suxorz

awfullyquiet
08-26-2008, 05:17 PM
Whisenhunt has said the reports are false, and that as of now Leinart is still the starter.

sauce.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/2008/08/25/20080825cards0826.html

TheBuffaloBills
08-26-2008, 05:38 PM
If I could go back to the the 8th pick in that draft..... I would punch myself in the face for getting mad that the Bills picked Whitner instead of Leinart.... I am very glad with the outcome

D-Unit
08-26-2008, 05:41 PM
Dude, why does anyone ever believe anything Chris Mortensen reports???

He's notorious for being wrong. More than any other reporter out there.

bigbluedefense
08-26-2008, 05:41 PM
Leinart can still salvage his career. He needs out of Arizona. Whistenhunt was the worst thing that happened to the Cardinals.

Leinart is a WCO qb, we all know that. Whistenhunt's downfield pass game is a horrible fit for Leinart. Leinart looked like he'd be fine when Green was around. Throw him in a WCO, and he'll salvage his career.

Having that said, he's proving that he's no where near the hype he got prior to coming out. And I myself am disappointed, bc i expected him to be better than this. His poor work ethic and belief that things are owed to him is why this happened.

But still, terrible fit in Whistenhunt's scheme. That was a bad hire.

D-Unit
08-26-2008, 05:47 PM
Leinart can still salvage his career. He needs out of Arizona. Whistenhunt was the worst thing that happened to the Cardinals.

Leinart is a WCO qb, we all know that. Whistenhunt's downfield pass game is a horrible fit for Leinart. Leinart looked like he'd be fine when Green was around. Throw him in a WCO, and he'll salvage his career.

Having that said, he's proving that he's no where near the hype he got prior to coming out. And I myself am disappointed, bc i expected him to be better than this. His poor work ethic and belief that things are owed to him is why this happened.

But still, terrible fit in Whistenhunt's scheme. That was a bad hire.
They should've hired Norm Chow.

fenikz
08-26-2008, 05:48 PM
Leinart can still salvage his career. He needs out of Arizona. Whistenhunt was the worst thing that happened to the Cardinals.

Leinart is a WCO qb, we all know that. Whistenhunt's downfield pass game is a horrible fit for Leinart. Leinart looked like he'd be fine when Green was around. Throw him in a WCO, and he'll salvage his career.

Having that said, he's proving that he's no where near the hype he got prior to coming out. And I myself am disappointed, bc i expected him to be better than this. His poor work ethic and belief that things are owed to him is why this happened.

But still, terrible fit in Whistenhunt's scheme. That was a bad hire.


...what? Wow that may be the dumbest statement i have ever heard. 1st of all it's Whisenhunt, and he is far in away the best coach we have had in my lifetime. The man took us to 8-8 in his 1st year, after 3 terrible season with Green's ****** coaching. I don't think Leinart can handle any Pro offense right now, his mind simply can't handle it, he needs something like Hawaii's spread.

SeanTaylorRIP
08-26-2008, 05:48 PM
Too bad for the Cardinals, if Whistenhunt was coach during the 06 draft they would have certainly have taken Jay Cutler which would have been a significantly better fit.

bigbluedefense
08-26-2008, 05:49 PM
They should've hired Norm Chow.

he wouldve been great.

that team is built to play WCO.

fenikz
08-26-2008, 05:51 PM
he wouldve been great.

that team is built to play WCO.


umm exactly what part of our team is built for the west coast offense?

Breaston is the only WR who fits that type of scheme

bigbluedefense
08-26-2008, 05:52 PM
...what? Wow that may be the dumbest statement i have ever heard. 1st of all it's Whisenhunt, and he is far in away the best coach we have had in my lifetime. The man took us to 8-8 in his 1st year, after 3 terrible season with Green's ****** coaching. I don't think Leinart can handle any Pro offense right now, his mind simply can't handle it, he needs something like Hawaii's spread.

Leinart was looking fine under Green. Whistenhunt should get a plaque bc he led you to 8-8? This is the parity era, big whoop. Im not saying keep Green, Im saying they shouldve kept a WCO.


Whistenhunt is a good coach, but just a bad fit for what Arizona was built for. Ive seen enough Leinart tape, he needs a WCO. He's Chad Pennington when Chad still had some kind of arm. You don't throw a guy like that into the vertical game that Whistenhunt wants to play. Terrible fit.

bigbluedefense
08-26-2008, 05:53 PM
umm exactly what part of our team is built for the west coast offense?

Breaston is the only WR who fits that type of scheme

What does a WCO WR need to be?

A guy who's strong who can get YAC. Well Boldin and Fitz are pretty good at that. Neither are heralded as WRs who stretch the field either, theyre WCO WRs.

Edge is a WCO RB. He can catch and block and run the stretch. Can cutback. He's a WCO RB.

Leinart's arm would make him more suitable for a WCO.


What part of your offense ISN'T built for the WCO?

BrownsTown
08-26-2008, 06:05 PM
Whoever said Whisenhunt is the worst thing to happen to the Cardinals should slap themselves. He deserved a coaching job for a long time and it was a great hire considering him and Grimm both are known to put great Oline's together, and that had plagued Arizona for years.

bigbluedefense
08-26-2008, 06:09 PM
Whoever said Whisenhunt is the worst thing to happen to the Cardinals should slap themselves. He deserved a coaching job for a long time and it was a great hire considering him and Grimm both are known to put great Oline's together, and that had plagued Arizona for years.

If Whistenhunt gets them to the playoffs, then yeah sure.

But what if he doesn't? What if they miss out this year and next year? (Mind you thats a very realistic possibility). What would be so special about Whistenhunt then?

He hasn't accomplished anything as a HC to get so much praise. He's living off reputation and reputation alone at this point. Im not gonna anoint the guy until i see actual results.

BrownsTown
08-26-2008, 06:12 PM
If Whistenhunt gets them to the playoffs, then yeah sure.

But what if he doesn't? What if they miss out this year and next year? (Mind you thats a very realistic possibility). What would be so special about Whistenhunt then?

He hasn't accomplished anything as a HC to get so much praise. He's living off reputation and reputation alone at this point. Im not gonna anoint the guy until i see actual results.

He's accomplished already turning Arizona into a contender and making an Oline (and this is a serious challenge) that Kurt Warner can actually play behind. The coaching and scheme more than the player additions have changed the Oline from embarrassing to above average. And the offense always starts with the Oline.

fenikz
08-26-2008, 06:14 PM
What does a WCO WR need to be?

A guy who's strong who can get YAC. Well Boldin and Fitz are pretty good at that. Neither are heralded as WRs who stretch the field either, theyre WCO WRs.

Edge is a WCO RB. He can catch and block and run the stretch. Can cutback. He's a WCO RB.

Leinart's arm would make him more suitable for a WCO.


What part of your offense ISN'T built for the WCO?

Q is a good YAC WR but it's not over the middle, he is at his best when being covered by a CB as he can run them over, he would not be able to do that with LB's and most SS's

as for Fitz we never send him across the middle, he simply is built for the outside, the only route in which he goes across the field is a deep in, he is built for curls, outs and seam routes where he can use his height and leaping advantage, you simply can't do that on a quick in or slant route.

bigbluedefense
08-26-2008, 06:18 PM
He's accomplished already turning Arizona into a contender and making an Oline (and this is a serious challenge) that Kurt Warner can actually play behind. The coaching and scheme more than the player additions have changed the Oline from embarrassing to above average. And the offense always starts with the Oline.

most of those players he has were Denny Green players. Denny Green built up most of that team.

Yes, he's improved that oline, but come on, we're gonna give him so much praise just for that? He did afterall, spend the 6th pick in the draft on an OT with his first pick, shoot, the oline better be improved. I don't see why he should get so much credit for that.

He also has a more developed oline. Green had some guys when they were young (in particular the OG from USC), Whistenhunt got them in a more developed stage. He's not the only Coach that couldve improved that oline.

And what good is 8-8 for one season when he's partly responsible for the ineptness of what was supposed to be your franchise qb for the next 10 years?

Like I said, he's not necessarily a bad coach, just a bad fit for what Arizona was built to do.

And he's shown nothing yet to deserve the praise he's gotten. Mike Nolan almost did decent one year with the 49ers. Is he a savior too? Hardly.

BrownsTown
08-26-2008, 06:21 PM
most of those players he has were Denny Green players. Denny Green built up most of that team.

Yes, he's improved that oline, but come on, we're gonna give him so much praise just for that? He did afterall, spend a 6th round pick on an OT with his first pick, shoot, the oline better be improved. I don't see why he should get so much credit for that.

He also has a more developed oline. Green had some guys when they were young (in particular the OG from USC), Whistenhunt got them in a more developed stage. He's not the only Coach that couldve improved that oline.

And what good is 8-8 for one season when he's partly responsible for the ineptness of what was supposed to be your franchise qb for the next 10 years?

Like I said, he's not necessarily a bad coach, just a bad fit for what Arizona was built to do.

And he's shown nothing yet to deserve the praise he's gotten. Mike Nolan almost did decent one year with the 49ers. Is he a savior too? Hardly.

Like I said, it's much more the scheme and coaching of the Oline, with Whisenhunt and Grimm, than the players. That's why the line was awful when Green was the coach. Ineptness...I think people are always too hard on Matt Leinart and expect too much of him. He had a good preseason aside from the Oakland game and he lost his job to the better QB. What are we supposed to be surprised about? I think he'll still be a productive QB down the road even if they need to tweak the offense a bit to fit him.

bigbluedefense
08-26-2008, 06:25 PM
Like I said, it's much more the scheme and coaching of the Oline, with Whisenhunt and Grimm, than the players. That's why the line was awful when Green was the coach. Ineptness...I think people are always too hard on Matt Leinart and expect too much of him. He had a good preseason aside from the Oakland game and he lost his job to the better QB. What are we supposed to be surprised about? I think he'll still be a productive QB down the road even if they need to tweak the offense a bit to fit him.

he's not the only coach who couldve done that though. i just don't like the overall direction he's taking the team. i had the same problem with Nolan.

Even the defense for example. They have Allan Branch and Gabe Watson. They could have the next John Henderson/Stroud combo in a 4-3 defense in their lap. Why run a 3-4? Where does Calias Campbell fit in a 3-4?

This team has a good amount of talent on it. Its just being misused.

fenikz
08-26-2008, 06:31 PM
O-Line Draft Picks from Denny Green

Alex Stepanovich - Cut
Nick Leckey - Cut
Elton Brown - Back Up
Deuce Latui - Starting RG...for now

We had a terrible O-line and he never addressed it, his only quality player could very well lose his starting spot to Whis' 7th round pick, Brandon Kieth has most definitely out played Deuce, the only thing keeping him as a starter is his draft position.


Whis/Grim have brought in 3 new starters and moved Wells from OT to LG like Green should of done with fatty, we went from 18th best in sacks allowed to 7th in 1 season.

As for the move to 3-4, you do realize that Branch would be getting no playing time as a UT with Darnell Dockett here. Campbell is a legit 3-4 DE, he has played great in the preseason so far, most LT's just cant handle his strength and speed 1 on 1.

bigbluedefense
08-26-2008, 06:35 PM
O-Line Draft Picks from Denny Green

Alex Stepanovich - Cut
Nick Leckey - Cut
Elton Brown - Back Up
Deuce Latui - Starting RG...for now

We had a terrible O-line and he never addressed it, his only quality player could very well lose his starting spot to Whis' 7th round pick, Brandon Kieth has most definitely out played Deuce, the only thing keeping him as a starter is his draft position.




Whis/Grim have brought in 3 new starters and moved Wells from OT to LG like Green should of done with fatty, we went from 18th best in sacks allowed to 7th in 1 season.

Like I said, Im not saying that Dennis Green shouldn't have been fired. And I don't doubt how they shored up the oline. But that doesnt mean that he's done a great job either.

He's done an average job at this point. Until he gets that team to the playoffs, it will continue to be an average job.

For all of Denny Green's faults, he did some great things himself with that team. He laid the foundation for that team. If Whistenhunt doesn't at least get this team to the playoffs within 2 years, his tenior is more disappointing than Green's.

Menardo75
08-26-2008, 06:42 PM
he's not the only coach who couldve done that though. i just don't like the overall direction he's taking the team. i had the same problem with Nolan.

Even the defense for example. They have Allan Branch and Gabe Watson. They could have the next John Henderson/Stroud combo in a 4-3 defense in their lap. Why run a 3-4? Where does Calias Campbell fit in a 3-4?

This team has a good amount of talent on it. Its just being misused.

The Cardinals do have the people to run a decent 3-4. Branch and Watson would not be near a Stroud Henderson combination at all. Niether of them have good enough motors to play that often and stay disciplined. They both do have the size to play nose which is a lot less responsibility and does'nt take as much gas out of them. Dansby is a great fit at OLB and it looks like so far Okeafor is a pretty good fit at the other OLB spot. Not to mention Dockett is perfect as a 3-4 DE

fenikz
08-26-2008, 06:43 PM
if we aren't in the playoffs in 2 years he will be fired, it's that simple

but you can't argue with a 3 win improvement in his 1st year, Denny is a good GM just a really really bad coach, though it always seemed like he was just reading a draft magazine and picking BPA.

Dansby is a ILB in our 3-4, he and Hayes make up one of the best young 3-4 cores in the league.

our OLBs are Berry, Okeafor, LaBoy, Haggans, Highsmith & Harrington, great depth and a mix of youth and veterans

Menardo75
08-26-2008, 06:53 PM
Oh how is Berry doing at OLB

D-Unit
08-26-2008, 06:55 PM
I still thank Wisenhunt for not pushing the Cardinals to bring Leonard Davis back.

He's an absolute God send to our RG woes. Now only if the Boys had a LG... :(

I think Wisenhunt is a very good coach, but a great coach would alter the offense to fit the players he has and mold the player into what he needs to have for his perfect system. Leinart was a huge investment by the Cards and thus Wisenhunt should tweak his offense to tailor Leinart's game and develop him along the way. If arm strength is a concern, and Wisenhunt wants a QB that can throw deep, then get him on a very strict strengthening program. Keep the offense in a way Leinart can succeed with what he's got and then as Leinart develops, open up the playbook.

Too many times, it's... The guy doesn't fit... or the system doesn't fit... Whenever a new coach comes in, you're going to have mismatches. Some players will come and go, but some players have to stick. when the Cards spent the money on Leinart and decided to make him their 1st pick, that made him a keeper.

On a separate note, WTH does he see in Al Johnson???

fenikz
08-26-2008, 07:00 PM
You think Whis wanted to pass like he did last year with Warner? He adjusted very well to his players, Warner put up some huge numbers, and if his elbow is injured and can cut down on the fumbles you can expect much of the same this year. He uses Q to his full potential running screens, sweeps and even putting him in the back field, he is a very innovative OC and it showed much of last year. But the simple fact is if you establish the run and don't turn the ball over you have a great chance of winning games, it's a championship formula and I think every HC in the league has that vision.

As for Johnson he is a POS, and that is why he isn't starting anymore, Lyle Sendlein is a Grimm product and should be here for quite awhile.