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View Full Version : Vontae Davis vs. Malcolm Jenkins


toddmlazarchick
09-05-2008, 10:20 AM
http://media.scout.com/Media/Image/54/546459.jpg http://www.dispatch.com/wwwexportcontent/sites/dispatch/images/dec/1230_osu_jenkins_sp_12-30-07_C1_9D8TS66.jpg

What do you guys think sets them apart? I like both of them and I hope we can land one of them this coming draft. Do you think they are shutdown corners? Which would you choose and who do you think would be a better NFL corner?

Sniper
09-05-2008, 10:26 AM
What do you guys think sets them apart? I like both of them and I hope we can land one of them this coming draft. Do you think they are shutdown corners? Which would you choose and who do you think would be a better NFL corner?

Great debate topic. Seriously.

Vontae Davis is a better athlete than football player right now. That's not to say he's not a good football player, but he relies more on his athleticism compared to his actual football talent. Much like his brother Vernon, he is an unbelievable athlete and will own the Combine. He's a physical specimen for sure. He lacks the polish that Malcolm Jenkins has.

Jenkins doesn't have quite the physical traits that Davis does, but right now, he's a better and more consistent cornerback. Jenkins is actually very good in man coverage, though you don't see it too often because of Ohio State's zone-heavy scheme. He is significantly more polished than Davis and probably more ready to play right away in the NFL. He also has dabbled at free safety in some nickel packages last year, but will play corner exclusively this year.

I personally take Davis ahead of Jenkins not just because of his potential, but in limited reps, he has shown exceptional return skills. I like Jenkins better at corner but Davis' return skills may make him go higher. That and his potential.

d34ng3l021
09-05-2008, 10:28 AM
Well. Sniper basically covered it all. Thanks a lot.

619
09-05-2008, 10:33 AM
This will definitely be a very hot topic to debate all season long and leading up to the draft. As for analysis Sniper stole all the spotlight. Great job .

Sniper
09-05-2008, 10:38 AM
Well. Sniper basically covered it all. Thanks a lot.

Sorry, it's been a hotly debated issue, so I had previous material to refer to.

toddmlazarchick
09-05-2008, 10:56 AM
My biggest concern with Davis is his potential. It seems that his brother was a sure fire couldn't miss prospect and he still isn't one of the best TEs in the league. Im concerned with picking Davis, he will pan out the same way. Its one thing to be a workout warrior but having it transition on the field is another thing.

Sniper
09-05-2008, 10:59 AM
My biggest concern with Davis is his potential. It seems that his brother was a sure fire couldn't miss prospect and he still isn't one of the best TEs in the league. Im concerned with picking Davis, he will pan out the same way. Its one thing to be a workout warrior but having it transition on the field is another thing.

Vernon's been in the league for two years. How many players are one of the best at their position after two years? Very few.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-05-2008, 11:14 AM
Jenkins' general inexperience in man coverage worries me more than anything, and even then that's mostly in regards to eventual stock. He's great in zone coverage, but most teams don't regard that as nearly as important, or at least not as worth a pick in the top half of the first round.

Both players are top notch defensive backs. Both could probably play safety in the NFL, but I think both wind up as corners. I think Davis probably goes first, because he does have the athleticism to make a late push up boards. But I really do like Jenkins' build and the way he plays the ball (he actually reminds me a tiny bit of Asomugha at Cal). I just need to see him play man coverage more. He was so universally avoided last year when he played zone we don't know much about how he reacts when teams go after him.

CJSchneider
09-05-2008, 11:31 AM
Well. Sniper basically covered it all. Thanks a lot.

Yeah, I cant add anything to that.

rockio42
09-05-2008, 12:11 PM
Vernon's been in the league for two years. How many players are one of the best at their position after two years? Very few.

and even thats with a good overall team around, but that is neither here nor there

rockio42
09-05-2008, 12:19 PM
to answer your originally questions (as much as i don't like OSU) Malcolm Jenkins, for me at least, and that is because I look at expierience when it comes to cornerbacks because the more routes, reciever, and throws you see in college the better I think you will be in the NFL

but I do agree that come draft day these two could be closer than Leon Hall and Darrelle Revis were 2 years ago

toddmlazarchick
09-05-2008, 12:30 PM
Would you guys say both could be considered a "shutdown" corner?

Sniper
09-05-2008, 12:34 PM
Would you guys say both could be considered a "shutdown" corner?

Jenkins moreso than Davis (right now). Jenkins is more consistently focused than Davis. Davis is rapidly getting better though. I'd take either as my #1 CB and be happy with it.

Bruce Banner
09-05-2008, 12:38 PM
Depends what your definition of "shutdown corner" is. Could Jenkins go man to man on an island better than Davis?

toddmlazarchick
09-05-2008, 01:04 PM
Depends what your definition of "shutdown corner" is. Could Jenkins go man to man on an island better than Davis?

Based off of your definition of a shutdown corner. Could either one be that?

Bruce Banner
09-05-2008, 01:10 PM
Based off of your definition of a shutdown corner. Could either one be that?

Not sure, they are a dying breed though the new rule changes might give the corners a better chance to have levels of dominance.

I'd take Jenkins if I were to guess. Vontae has been criticized for his lack of fluid hips and I'd consider him a better athlete than a football player at this point in time.
Jenkins has a lower ceiling but a higher floor?

sweetness34
09-05-2008, 01:30 PM
Well Vontae shut down Ginn his freshman year and he shut down Maclin this year, two of the game's biggest playmakers the past couple seasons.

IMO what separates Vontae from his brother is that Vontae is more polished right now than Vernon is. Vernon was way more of an athlete than he was a TE. Vontae while still a tad bit raw in his fundamentals is more polished than his brother is coming out. Vontae has put up big time stats his first two years, Vernon was drafted heavily based on what he would be down the road.

Vontae lacks focus at times, and that's his problem. Zook has been hammering away at Vontae to stay focused at all times, but Vontae is just so good he thinks he can do things a bit easier and still get by. It has nothing to do with his work ethic, he just knows he's good and sometimes he doesn't go hard. But he's getting a lot better at it since Zook dropped him to the second team for a couple days as a wake up call and Vontae has been on fire every since. 4.3 speed, hits like a ton of bricks, has great balls skills (as seen by his pass breakup in the endzone on saturday), unreal athleticism and explosiveness, and he's improved every year he's been at Illinois by leaps and bounds. Malcolm may be more "polished" but it's pretty scary what Vontae could become down the road.

Shane P. Hallam
09-05-2008, 01:35 PM
I think it depends on scheme. Davis will go first since he will likely go to a scheme looking for a very good cover corner. Jenkins is better in zone coverage, and has versatility. Both should be top picks, and rightfully so.

Sniper
09-05-2008, 01:36 PM
Well Vontae shut down Ginn his freshman year and he shut down Maclin this year, two of the game's biggest playmakers the past couple seasons.



Considering Ginn only had five career 100 yard games in three seasons, and only one was against a team with a decent secondary ('06 Michigan) that's not as big an accomplishment as you might think. Yes, I know Leon Hall got roasted by Ginn. Ginn was the most overrated "playmaker" as a receiver we've seen in a few years.

Sorry, don't want to take much away from Davis. He's good. He can't cover Mario Manningham though :)

Bruce Banner
09-05-2008, 01:37 PM
The dreaded P-word.

eaglesalltheway
09-05-2008, 01:44 PM
The weird thing is, Davis is almost like Taylor Mays in the other comparison, with Jenkins beign like William Moore. Everyone pretty much agrees that Davis and Mays are more physically gifted, and good players, and as a result have very high ceilings. But as of now, both Moore and Jenkins are more Pro-ready, and are better refined in their games than their opponent.

Bruce Banner
09-05-2008, 01:46 PM
The weird thing is, Davis is almost like Taylor Mays in the other comparison, with Jenkins beign like William Moore. Everyone pretty much agrees that Davis and Mays are more physically gifted, and good players, and as a result have very high ceilings. But as of now, both Moore and Jenkins are more Pro-ready, and are better refined in their games than their opponent.

Great observation.

eaglesalltheway
09-05-2008, 01:50 PM
Thanks, it is sort of uncanny, the two top Safeties and Corners (One a senior and one a junior, on both positions) have eerily similar comparisons. Both of the juniors are considered to be the better athletes too.

Burns336
09-05-2008, 04:27 PM
Jenkins more suited for a cover-2 system like Aquib Talib.

Vontae Davis has the tools to end up as the better man up corner.

familyguy555
09-05-2008, 04:46 PM
Only concern with Jenkins is whatever is on his arm. Seriously what is that.

Bruce Banner
09-05-2008, 05:04 PM
Bask in the genius.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega_Psi_Phi#Membership

Some fraternity members who have brands say it is a way to link themselves to their slave ancestors who were also branded.

Great reasoning guys!

Cribbs>Hester
09-05-2008, 05:18 PM
Malcolm Jenkins is overrated plain and simple. I have to watch him every Saturday and every Saturday I have to watch him do something dumb that cost my team. He does have all the physical tools in the world, and the mental ability to play the game, but right now he lacks disapline. He takes way too many chances, and too big of chances. Those are actually the only times I've honestly seen him get beat. That is a huge problem though because when he starts doing that in the NFL he is going to be getting beat a lot more often than not.

I will cut him some slack, however, because he does lack a good coach to teach him about the pros and cons of taking chances. JIM HEACOCK IS THE WORST D COORDINATOR IN OSU HISTORY!(had to get that out...again)

d34ng3l021
09-05-2008, 07:05 PM
Now that I have time, I am going to add some stuff to this debate.

When looking at guys who go in the top half of the first round, most of them are terrific in man to man coverage. In fact, if I was a team looking for a CB, thats the only way I would go. CBs who have the potential and ability to play man to man are very sought after (Champ Bailey, DeAngelo Hall), and for good reason. I have no doubt in my mind that Vontae Davis will be the first CB taken (as of now at least). Davis shows those man to man skills and is going to absolutely light up the combine.

As for the better player or value, I dont know. I like Malcolm Jenkins a lot and he has all the tools to be a decent man to man guy and an absolute stud in zone play. I want him on the Falcons really badly, but then you have to look at how valuable of a pick he would be. Teams seem to be having no problem finding stud zone CBs in end of the first round and even later rounds. Is he worth it? I am really sure that he would succeed in the NFL if he was drafted to the team with the right scheme, but at the same time, is it worth a top 15 draft pick?

keylime_5
09-05-2008, 07:55 PM
It's not like Malcolm can't stick a man, it's just that his responsibilities haven't been that so much. When he has played man he has never been beaten deep to date though. Teams don't throw it to Jenkins' side of the field that much the past 2 years, and when they have they get INTs (see vs LSU and PSU twice most notably).

Sniper
09-05-2008, 07:57 PM
It's not like Malcolm can't stick a man, it's just that his responsibilities haven't been that so much. When he has played man he has never been beaten deep to date though. Teams don't throw it to Jenkins' side of the field that much the past 2 years, and when they have they get INTs (see vs LSU and PSU twice most notably).

Was he in zone against Early Doucet when Doucet scored a TD in the NC game? Because either way, Jenkins got toasted.

619
09-05-2008, 08:41 PM
The way I look at it is okay Jenkins might be the supposed safe pick at the moment but to be honest here I'm not so sure corners such as Davis come around all that often. He might not be a Cromartie or Pacman as a prospect yet however he at times does hint at some of those key attributes of a playmaking corner who possess the exceptional ability to change the landscape of a game in more ways than one.

keylime_5
09-05-2008, 09:32 PM
Was he in zone against Early Doucet when Doucet scored a TD in the NC game? Because either way, Jenkins got toasted.

The Doucet touchdown was where Russell and Washington both had arm tackles that were broke and Early waltzed in the endzone. The one touchdown to the tight end or LaFell (i can't remember which) where it appeared Jenkins got burnt wasn't the case - Kurt Coleman blew his assignment and Jenkins tried to run over from his zone and cover the wide wide open receiver. Jenkins played very well against LSU.

SenorGato
09-05-2008, 11:58 PM
I like Davis a bit more. Reminds me alot of Revis a couple years ago. I'm not sure about the stiff hips thing actually.

It's just a matter of preference between the two, and I like physical guys at CB like Davis.

toddmlazarchick
09-06-2008, 12:30 AM
The more I read from you guys the more I like Davis. Initially I came here liking Jenkins more but I think my opinion has been swayed. I like a corner who can man up and smack you in the mouth and that sounds like Davis

Bearsfan123
09-06-2008, 12:47 AM
One note that i need to bring up is that although Davis has never missed significant time, he leaves games quite a bit. Last year in our biggest game vs OSU he had to leave the game when he made a huge hit. He hit the guy, and he got hurt. This year vs Mizzou he had to leave the game. He came back but he still has had to be taken out of the game quite a bit. So I would worry about his durability. Maybe it's not a huge concern but to me, it is a concern.

toddmlazarchick
09-06-2008, 02:14 AM
One note that i need to bring up is that although Davis has never missed significant time, he leaves games quite a bit. Last year in our biggest game vs OSU he had to leave the game when he made a huge hit. He hit the guy, and he got hurt. This year vs Mizzou he had to leave the game. He came back but he still has had to be taken out of the game quite a bit. So I would worry about his durability. Maybe it's not a huge concern but to me, it is a concern.

Thanks for the info the last think the skins secondary needs is a CB thats always hurt lol hopefully its not a problem

WMD
09-06-2008, 02:51 AM
Thanks for the info the last think the skins secondary needs is a CB thats always hurt lol hopefully its not a problem

Too bad he's coming to the Lions...

Saints-Tigers
09-06-2008, 03:51 AM
The dreaded P-word.

Well, I have a problem with guys that are 100% potential picks like Matt Jones, but Vontae has really good production already... This is a CB who recorded 13 tackles in a bowl game against top competition as a sophomore.

I like Vontae, but I'd be happy to take either.

Sniper
09-06-2008, 05:34 AM
Well, I have a problem with guys that are 100% potential picks like Matt Jones, but Vontae has really good production already... This is a CB who recorded 13 tackles in a bowl game against top competition as a sophomore.

I like Vontae, but I'd be happy to take either.

Tackles may be the worst possible way to measure corners

Saints-Tigers
09-06-2008, 06:54 AM
True, but we know the guy is fast, he's big, and he makes his presence felt NOW despite being raw.

13 tackles as a corner is impressive though, no matter how you spin it.

eaglesalltheway
09-06-2008, 08:17 AM
True, but we know the guy is fast, he's big, and he makes his presence felt NOW despite being raw.

13 tackles as a corner is impressive though, no matter how you spin it.

Agreed, but I always hate it when someone say, "CB _____ only had one tackle last week, he must suck," but what they don;t mention is his 4 passes defended, two INTs, and that his man never caught the ball. Tackles aren't a good way to measure CBs, but when a CB has 13 tackels, that means one of two things: He was thrown at a lot, and made the tackles on a consistent basis that were thrown to his man, or he had a solid game in run support. Even though tackles aren't the best way to gauge a CBs performance, it is hard to say a CB has had a bad bay when he has 13 tackles, not to mention all of the other impacts he could have in a game.

Sniper
09-06-2008, 01:34 PM
I wish passing attempts towards you that are incomplete would be a stat that is kept. Actually, let me clarify. I wish it was a common stat on every defensive player's page, like INTs, tackles etc...Or just passes in your direction (complete+incomplete)

keylime_5
09-06-2008, 02:12 PM
Jenkins played lights out today, both man and zone. Dominant performance. I don't wanna talk about that game any more than that though.

sweetness34
09-06-2008, 03:18 PM
Vontae played lights out today too...Against Eastern Illinois. I don't think they threw his way today actually lol.

And I'd expect Malcolm to be dominant against a team like Ohio.

LonghornsLegend
09-06-2008, 03:23 PM
Malcolm Jenkins=Cover 2 corner? Not to say thats what he's limited too, but he just seems like the perfect fit for it, and I'm also not sold that some teams won't look at him to play safety...Maybe the Antrell Rolle situation plays a part in it, but I think he's versatile enough where a team could give that a thought.

d34ng3l021
09-06-2008, 04:31 PM
Malcolm Jenkins=Cover 2 corner? Not to say thats what he's limited too, but he just seems like the perfect fit for it, and I'm also not sold that some teams won't look at him to play safety...Maybe the Antrell Rolle situation plays a part in it, but I think he's versatile enough where a team could give that a thought.

I agree very much. I think in the cover 2, Jenkins would be absolutely lights out. Better than Asante Samuels. He would constantly be making plays and shutting down his side of the zone.

I do however think he has the athleticism to continue playing CB. His game is alot more smooth than Rolle's.

Saints-Tigers
09-06-2008, 08:48 PM
Agreed, but I always hate it when someone say, "CB _____ only had one tackle last week, he must suck," but what they don;t mention is his 4 passes defended, two INTs, and that his man never caught the ball. Tackles aren't a good way to measure CBs, but when a CB has 13 tackels, that means one of two things: He was thrown at a lot, and made the tackles on a consistent basis that were thrown to his man, or he had a solid game in run support. Even though tackles aren't the best way to gauge a CBs performance, it is hard to say a CB has had a bad bay when he has 13 tackles, not to mention all of the other impacts he could have in a game.

Well in that particular game, I didn't feel like he was getting beat and just piling in tackles that way, he felt like a safety making plays all over the field.

Race for the Heisman
09-06-2008, 11:01 PM
Someone else made the comparison to Aqib Talib and I like that a bit. I think Jenkins has better hips and better top speed, but both would still be guys who are somewhat tweeners between man/zone corners; maybe better in the cover 2 but still capable in man coverage.

brat316
09-06-2008, 11:33 PM
Jenkins to the Steelers make it happen somehow

eaglesalltheway
09-07-2008, 09:12 AM
Well in that particular game, I didn't feel like he was getting beat and just piling in tackles that way, he felt like a safety making plays all over the field.

Yeah I feels the same way too, but I was just showing a way that a CB could rack up tackles while not having a great performance. I was trying to show both sides of it.

keylime_5
09-07-2008, 09:28 AM
Vontae played lights out today too...Against Eastern Illinois. I don't think they threw his way today actually lol.

And I'd expect Malcolm to be dominant against a team like Ohio.

yeah but the rest of the team pretty much sucked except a few other defenders for us. miserable game, don't want to discuss. >: (

Sniper
09-07-2008, 09:31 AM
**** this debate. Donovan Warren pwns both these bitches.

eaglesalltheway
09-07-2008, 09:37 AM
I beleive that belongs in the Homer thread Sniper, haha.

Sniper
09-07-2008, 09:51 AM
I beleive that belongs in the Homer thread Sniper, haha.

In pure man to man coverage, I'll argue that Warren is above these two like a ******* rabid wolverine. He still has a long way to go with his tackling and zone awareness, as well as that whole not dropping INTs deal.

Speaking of rabid wolverines, I really want Michigan to have a wolverine roaming the sidelines, much like LSU has a tiger (albeit in a cage). Imagine it's 3rd and 9, you're the opposing team's QB trying to read the coverage and you see a LIVE RABID ******* WOLVERINE? You'd **** yourself.

toddmlazarchick
09-07-2008, 04:34 PM
Too bad he's coming to the Lions...

With the way we played on opening night I wouldn't be so sure of that

eaglesalltheway
09-07-2008, 05:14 PM
In pure man to man coverage, I'll argue that Warren is above these two like a ******* rabid wolverine. He still has a long way to go with his tackling and zone awareness, as well as that whole not dropping INTs deal.

Speaking of rabid wolverines, I really want Michigan to have a wolverine roaming the sidelines, much like LSU has a tiger (albeit in a cage). Imagine it's 3rd and 9, you're the opposing team's QB trying to read the coverage and you see a LIVE RABID ******* WOLVERINE? You'd **** yourself.

Wolverines are psycho enough, they don't need to be rabid. Seriously they are like tasmanian devils, but coller looking. I can't even imagine what a rabid one would be like. I think all of Ann Arbor would die, no joke.

Sniper
09-07-2008, 05:16 PM
Just put him at middle linebacker....

eaglesalltheway
09-07-2008, 05:21 PM
They are really little though, just get a Center and guard with a lot of wire mesh and they'll be able to handle it.

Sniper
09-07-2008, 05:22 PM
They are really little though, just get a Center and guard with a lot of wire mesh and they'll be able to handle it.

No way....Too quick. He's a perfect fit in Rodriguez's scheme.

eaglesalltheway
09-07-2008, 05:24 PM
Sorry, wire mesh and a .42...Assuming one of the C/G is a good shot...