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Smokey Joe
09-07-2008, 01:09 PM
Call me crazy, but I feel good about tonight. Preseason is overrated, and I see this Bears D coming out fired up and shutting down the Colts. Manning is going to struggle, IMO. Yes, he's a great QB, but he has barely even practiced in the preseason.

It's probably the opening day homer-ness, but my prediction: Bears 31, Colts 14.

regoob2
09-07-2008, 01:33 PM
I think that we have a chance, not a good chance but still a chance. We need to strong play out of our Oline.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
09-07-2008, 05:12 PM
I think that we have a chance, not a good chance but still a chance. We need to strong play out of our Oline.

If our chance depends on our OL -- We do not have a chance.

Gay Ork Wang
09-07-2008, 05:42 PM
wow 31-14....

id say 20-14 Colts

Race for the Heisman
09-07-2008, 07:08 PM
I originally picked the Colts to win this game two weeks ago when I predicted the entire season. Right now, I'm not feeling it, but I'm really not feeling the NFL as a whole, so I'm not reading anything into it. I'm not even that excited to see us play to be honest. Though to be honest, I'm waiting for two e-mails that will essentially tell me whether my first semester at college will be good or not, so not being interested in football doesn't surprise me.

Race for the Heisman
09-07-2008, 07:27 PM
Peyton looks fine. We're doomed. Although the run defense did good on that toss. It's the north-south A and B gaps that worry me, though.

Gay Ork Wang
09-07-2008, 07:34 PM
Beekman is starting for us at Guard

awfullyquiet
09-07-2008, 10:10 PM
Call me crazy, but I feel good about tonight. Preseason is overrated, and I see this Bears D coming out fired up and shutting down the Colts. Manning is going to struggle, IMO. Yes, he's a great QB, but he has barely even practiced in the preseason.

It's probably the opening day homer-ness, but my prediction: Bears 31, Colts 14.

Smokey.

Before today (i mean, not to sound like an idiot), but i THOUGHT it was a distinct possibility the bears could win. If the defense could keep the bears in it. It would have been great. No jeff saturday means, an offensive line sans pro-bowl center...

now i'm looking at it... and think, god, it's possible... dot com.

regoob2
09-07-2008, 10:31 PM
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Awesome game I didnt think we could pulll it of but our D stepped up huge.

SFbear
09-07-2008, 10:34 PM
Who coordinated this offense and what did he do with Ron Turner?

bearfan
09-07-2008, 10:34 PM
I dont think Im the only one who is surprised tonight. Forte looked like a seasoned vet, and the OL blocked nicely. Very happy, now lets hope we can do this week in and out

bearfan
09-07-2008, 10:35 PM
Who coordinated this offense and what did he do with Ron Turner?

Oh there were still some Ron Turner plays...like a run to the right, followed by a run to the right. He cut back though

dabears10
09-07-2008, 10:38 PM
I think the most surprising is either St. Clair at LT or Orton being able to move around in the pocket efficiently enough to make freeney not too effective. I was most scared of that.

dabears10
09-07-2008, 10:47 PM
Also, I think the biggest reason the Bears did well was keeping it at 3rd and shorts. It was usually 3rd and less then 5 a good majority of the time and kept the colts off balance.

blkwdw13
09-07-2008, 10:53 PM
wow 31-14....

id say 20-14 Colts

Surprising how close his score was to be correct.

awfullyquiet
09-07-2008, 10:58 PM
I think the most surprising is either St. Clair at LT or Orton being able to move around in the pocket efficiently enough to make freeney not too effective. I was most scared of that.

I actually think beekman did a pretty fantastic job to make st. clair not look like a complete sucker.

bearfan
09-07-2008, 10:58 PM
Hmmm, well I hate the Bears MB. Its always fun to see what kind of stuff they have going on over there, especially in the QB Forum. The whole Rex/Orton factions had been battling it out, and after a win tonight, Rex fans go blast Orton that he sucked. Incredible...

Smokey Joe
09-07-2008, 11:10 PM
Not to brag or anything... but am I good or what?

Bearsfan123
09-07-2008, 11:45 PM
Great game by Forte, surprisingly good game by our O-line. Orton did not play well, but he didnt give any away (well any that were caught and would have counted anyway), and if anyone remembers that was the criteria for a Bears QB, but I fully expect most to reneg now and say they've always wanted more from the QB though not too many in here. I expect him to play better next week. The play calling surprised me with the emphasis soo heavy on the run. I actually would have liked about 2-3 more pa passes.

When Hester made that boneheaded mistake if I had been allowed to call one play, I would have sent his a** back on the field and run a damn screen telling him that he put us in that position so he'd better get us out.

D still missed some tackles. Special teams played well overall besides Hester's screwup. Briggs looked especially good, Urlacher was getting people to the ground more so than actually tackling which worries me. Still overall a great game for us and a shocking win. Go Bears.

EDIT: Oh and was Marcus Harrison lined up at DE when he got that sack? Whats up with that?

And Smokey good job. You are damned good.

regoob2
09-08-2008, 04:30 AM
Overall are team played very well. I hope they don't read there own press clipping because the Colts aren't a very talented team especially in the trenches. We still need to get more consistent pressure on the QB.

pellepelle_10
09-08-2008, 05:12 AM
Overall are team played very well. I hope they don't read there own press clipping because the Colts aren't a very talented team especially in the trenches. We still need to get more consistent pressure on the QB.

Its simply amazing how with the same offensive line we had last year and a runningback who can actually read whats going on in front you can make this team look completely different.

Thank you Forte of ridding us from the cancer.

Gay Ork Wang
09-08-2008, 07:57 AM
Guys, u remember the last time we started 1-0?

Thats right we went to the SB :P

awfullyquiet
09-08-2008, 09:47 AM
Urlacher was getting people to the ground more so than actually tackling which worries me.

I was watching him try to grab addai (i think), sometime in the second quarter, it was a play to the right, he looked slower, stiff, and not 'charging' like i'm used to seeing.

a little worried, yes, but, overall, solid.

btw. FWIW. john st. clair, i've been going over it most of last night, was owned by freeney. which should be expected..

my thoughts going into today were:

- the colts aren't the same with a crappier o-line. they'll suffer.
- kyle orton still isn't anything very good.
- matt forte isn't special, but he's very good.
- roster choices looked good, kevin payne looked comfortable
- lovie and babich gameplanned the colts line. the colts will not make the playoffs if the o-line cannot come together. i think they were babiched.
- ron turner still doesn't know what he's doing when it comes to passing.
- hester gets a solid c. did what he was supposed to. that bonehead move wasn't really a bonehead move, it was a risk-reward thing. and yes. it was possible he was 1 man from 20 yd return, he was 2 from a td. the colts weren't tackling all that well on ST already, and they were punting to him? might as well take a chance, imo.
- the recievers looked better than orton.

regoob2
09-08-2008, 09:52 AM
Which receivers looked better than Orton? Orton played with confidence which I love to see.

Race for the Heisman
09-08-2008, 12:30 PM
Also, I think the biggest reason the Bears did well was keeping it at 3rd and shorts. It was usually 3rd and less then 5 a good majority of the time and kept the colts off balance.

So true. Having anywhere between 3rd and 4 and 3rd and six most of the time was so crucial, as it meant the threat of the run was still there, especially with Forte instead of Benson.

Also, both tight ends made crucial plays, which was nice. The full back was well utilized in the running game. If anything, despite not being particularly adept at either, the team is balanced on offense. That will definitely hurt when they play better defenses, but it should get the team through most of the season without hanging everything on the defense.

TitleTown088
09-08-2008, 12:59 PM
Call me crazy, but I feel good about tonight. Preseason is overrated, and I see this Bears D coming out fired up and shutting down the Colts. Manning is going to struggle, IMO. Yes, he's a great QB, but he has barely even practiced in the preseason.

It's probably the opening day homer-ness, but my prediction: Bears 31, Colts 14.

Oooh, that nasty burly bear. Nice call.

The bears defense is back. If the offense can keep it up they can absolutely defense for the division.

awfullyquiet
09-08-2008, 02:12 PM
Also, both tight ends made crucial plays, which was nice. The full back was well utilized in the running game. If anything, despite not being particularly adept at either, the team is balanced on offense. That will definitely hurt when they play better defenses, but it should get the team through most of the season without hanging everything on the defense.

Better Defenses? I don't think the colts aren't one of those 'better' defenses. Not as physical, and as big and dominant (i think like seattle or jacksonville or most of the 3-4's tend to be)...

Back to what i was saying, the receivers were getting open, which is a surprise to me. and bravo to orton for spreading it out, but, he was as inaccurate and should have been sacked 4-5 times and or intercepted more... just lucky.

Bearsfan123
09-08-2008, 02:58 PM
Awfullyquiet, I agree that Orton is going to have to play better but I thought for a game where no one gave us a chance, going up against a solid secondary, and not being allowed to throw that much, (What worries me is that you saw Orton audible a ton, did he audible to the run THAT much? Or was it the playcall?) he had a solid game.

Now the Hester thing was inexcusable, i strongly disagree when people tell me it was risk reward, no when you watch the replay from the back of the endzone, you see that coverage team still coming hard. Hester needs to understand that we have momentum and the safe play in that situation is for the better. If we had been losing and needed a spark I would argue that the risk-reward might have been worth it, but at the time, we had momentum, the lead, and just average starting position would have been fine. The situation determines the risk-reward, and Hester needs to learn whats the proper situation for the "average" play.

My look at next week: The Panthers have a physical defense that has a good secondary, but I expect them to pack the box to stop Forte and make Orton beat them. Our main weapons are Olsen, Davis, and Hester IMO. Olsen because he's a matchup problem for a linebacker, or a safety. Davis because his quickness and solid hands should give us some nice small chunks (like the Colts were doing on their final drive). Hester because PA pass should be a weapon utilized alot during this game and he is the only speedster we have. On defense I am worried because of the talent level of their backfield. Jon Stewart is a load and will give us fits if we dont tackle well. D Williams is kinda like Forte with quick feet and cuts. This will be a tough game. I thought we could win this one because of Moose's comments firing us up. But now that we beat Indy, I dont see them looking past us. It's going to be a tough game, but still winnable.

sweetness34
09-08-2008, 03:18 PM
My thoughts on the game...

- Going into last night I was talking with a buddy and we both agreed if we could run the ball and not commit any turnovers we had a chance. 181 yards on the ground and zero turnovers. We kept possession of the ball and didn't give Indy any short fields which was key.

- We both knew our defense would come out fired up, whether you guys want to admit it or not we still have playmakers on that side of the ball and we still have one of the better defenses in the league when healthy.

- Forte looked awesome, with a bad offensive line. He hits the holes hard, he gets YAC, has very good speed and vision, can catch the ball out of the backfield very well, can pass block, etc...Once he gets more comfortable in the NFL he is going to be an elite back in the NFC, no question about it, and that's flat out scary.

- I'm still not a big Orton fan but he did what he needed to do to win. Not turn the ball over and make some throws. Still looks very shaky passing the ball but he made some big plays (passes to Clark and Olsen which were huge last night). But here enlies the problem, he's going to turn the ball over and that is when I think it will really hurt us because he is not a QB that will put up points. He's a game manager. Orton has to take care of the ball. I'm fine with punting and letting our defense do work, but limit your mistakes Kyle.

- Our OL while solid was still a bit shaky. Indy was getting a pass rush consistently, Turner just had plays for Orton to get rid of the ball quick before the pass rush got there. Run blocking was very good though, very impressed with Beekman, thought he had a solid game.

- Defense was great. You are not going to stop the Colts offense. They are just to damn good. But we did contain them and limit the big play. We confused Manning with different blitz packages and coverages, and we also were able to get a pass rush on him. Any coincidence that the defense came back to form when Mike Brown came back? I don't think so. We have to have him out there.

- Carolina is going to be a test next week. They are coming off a huge win in San Diego and we are playing another road game (which is complete bull ****). Good thing is they are without Smith, which means we go up againt Hackett and Moose.

- I was optimistic going into this year with a healthy defense, an elite special teams unit, and a new RB (before Williams was hurt). I still remain optimistic that we can be a threat this season. But the running game has to be there and we cannot turn the ball over.

Bearsfan123
09-08-2008, 03:23 PM
yeah but Sweetness, what do you think teams are going to do? They are gonna stack the box on us, especially if Forte continues to run as well as he did vs the Colts. I DO think Orton is going to play better next week. But the play calling still needs to improve. Also the disparity of carries early on worries me. Kevin Jones is gonna need some time in there as well. Forte may be a star in the making but I think if we want to keep him healthy and strong, KJ is gonna need to get more touches.

awfullyquiet
09-08-2008, 04:30 PM
This week matchup for John St. Clair. Dwight Freeney. Next Week's matchup for John St. Clair. Julius Peppers.

After this week, i think we're set for a while.

Gay Ork Wang
09-08-2008, 04:46 PM
I thought Julius Peppers moved to LE and is going to face Tait

awfullyquiet
09-08-2008, 04:52 PM
I thought Julius Peppers moved to LE and is going to face Tait

Uh. Um. I didn't think so?

We'd only hope.

Hurricane Ditka
09-08-2008, 05:59 PM
Both Wharton and Otah are gonna be out with sprained knees aren't they? That could be good for our pass rush.

awfullyquiet
09-08-2008, 09:18 PM
Both Wharton and Otah are gonna be out with sprained knees aren't they? That could be good for our pass rush.

And by pass rush, you mean, the offensive line will be as porous as a drain.

Dusty and Tommie will annihilate.

regoob2
09-09-2008, 12:43 PM
I thought Julius Peppers moved to LE and is going to face TaitHe's moving from LE to RE.

bearsfan_51
09-09-2008, 07:53 PM
HDitka is like a phoenix from the ashes.

Good call Smokey.


We aren't getting the respect we deserve for that win. All I hear about is what the Colts didn't do. I understand that's the dominant narrative because Colts lose is more shocking than Bears win, but we pushed them around pretty steadily. That ain't just scheme and luck.


Still not sure about the Carolina game, although I doubt they'll be able to keep the Delhomme-Donte Rosario connection going for another week.

Smokey Joe
09-09-2008, 09:44 PM
HDitka is like a phoenix from the ashes.

Good call Smokey.


We aren't getting the respect we deserve for that win. All I hear about is what the Colts didn't do. I understand that's the dominant narrative because Colts lose is more shocking than Bears win, but we pushed them around pretty steadily. That ain't just scheme and luck.


Still not sure about the Carolina game, although I doubt they'll be able to keep the Delhomme-Donte Rosario connection going for another week.
I hate how people say that Manning wasn't himself. Sure, he wasn't himself, but Manning off of his game is still better then about 90% of the QB's in the league.

I also hate the Oline excuse. Yeah, they are missing their stud center and have new starters at guard, but guess what, their Oline is still better than ours.

Hurricane Ditka
09-12-2008, 01:08 AM
I come and go as I please. When the hell did the NFL drop out of the site name?

Gay Ork Wang
09-12-2008, 02:03 AM
about 1-2 months ago with the reboot

Gay Ork Wang
09-14-2008, 05:37 AM
Lets go people

ill predict a win for the bears. Our defense should be able to stop that passing game.

Bears 20
Panthers 14

Race for the Heisman
09-14-2008, 08:47 AM
With the Panther's injury list and the surprise performance against the Colts last week I'd have to say I like the odds. Maybe 24-17 to los Osos.

Bearsfan123
09-14-2008, 10:00 AM
IF we stop the run, we can win, also our O-line has to play at the level of last week if not better this week.

My prediction Bears 17 Panthers 13

We win by bending but not breaking, making plays when we have to, and running the ball.

Smokey Joe
09-14-2008, 10:05 AM
We gotta have the intensity level up, this team can't feel like taking a game off because they beat the Colts.

I see the Bears D dominating once again, shutting down the Panthers O and providing/setting up a couple of scores, and Special Teams once again dominating.

The Bears come out flying and showing everyone they are for real. Bears 34, Panthers 10.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 10:08 AM
I think they know this is a huge game if we want to compete this year. I wanna see how our OL does against there front 7.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 10:14 AM
Tom Waddle picked the Panthers 17-16. Bastard

dabears10
09-14-2008, 10:43 AM
Tom Waddle picked the Panthers 17-16. Bastard

Love me some Waddle. I think he's usually fair. We are playing away and we will see if the team is as fired up as last week. I'm thinking Bears 21 - Panthers 18.

BeerBaron
09-14-2008, 11:10 AM
Bears inactives: QB Caleb Hanie (3rd), DB Craig Steltz, RB Adrian Peterson, G Dan Buenning, OT Chris Williams, DT Matt Toeaina, WR Earl Bennett, NT Anthony Adams.

so......... who do we have playing special teams? Steltz, AP and Bennett are all inactive

regoob2
09-14-2008, 11:12 AM
Who's inactive for the Panthers? Otah?

regoob2
09-14-2008, 11:18 AM
Bears inactives: QB Caleb Hanie (3rd), DB Craig Steltz, RB Adrian Peterson, G Dan Buenning, OT Chris Williams, DT Matt Toeaina, WR Earl Bennett (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/09/14/bears-panthers-inactives/#), NT Anthony Adams.

Panthers inactives: QB Matt Moore, WR Ryne Robinson, DB C.J. Wilson, LB James Anderson, LB Donte Curry, G Mackenzy Bernadeau, DE Hilee Taylor, G Travelle Wharton.

nevermind

regoob2
09-14-2008, 11:19 AM
Anyone know if Otah is starting is still hurting?

bearsfan_51
09-14-2008, 11:23 AM
Bears inactives: QB Caleb Hanie (3rd), DB Craig Steltz, RB Adrian Peterson, G Dan Buenning, OT Chris Williams, DT Matt Toeaina, WR Earl Bennett, NT Anthony Adams.

so......... who do we have playing special teams? Steltz, AP and Bennett are all inactive

We have three backup linebackers, we have Danieal Manning and McGowan, we have Wolfe, Kellen Davis, Mark Bradley, Corey Graham, Trumaine McBride, we have Israel Idonije. That's 11 guys and we're not even including the returner.

As for my prediction, if I'm being totally honest we HAVE to get the lead early. If we aren't leading at halftime (or at least really close), we won't win. That's going to be a pretty true statement no matter who we are playing, but its especially true against a team with a strong secondary and a power runningback.

I think it's 50/50, but I'll give the nod to the home team and say Panters 21- Bears 17.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 12:09 PM
ST TD to start the game this is what we needed to swing this close game.

Gay Ork Wang
09-14-2008, 12:11 PM
I hope we never let go off David Toub

regoob2
09-14-2008, 12:55 PM
wrong thread.

bearsfan_51
09-14-2008, 01:08 PM
That punt was ******* terrible. Great field position for the Panthers.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 01:24 PM
That punt was ******* terrible. Great field position for the Panthers.nice stop though.

bearsfan_51
09-14-2008, 01:26 PM
This game has been pretty sloppy and awful, but thankfully we're at least moving the ball unlike the Panthers. We need another touchdown, as I'm doubtful we can shut them down the entire game.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 01:35 PM
Orton played well but our lack of a playmaker has showed.

bearsfan_51
09-14-2008, 03:11 PM
Welp, just about what I expected except the halfs were reversed.

That's a really tough game to lose, and our offense is definately lousy, but I don't think the season is lost by any means.

We played 2 tough road games and are 1-1. I think we'll beat Tampa.

bearsfan_51
09-14-2008, 03:12 PM
And let's all pray to baby Jesus that Hester isn't seriously hurt.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 03:12 PM
Alright so that sucked. Anyone still think that WR isnt a bigger need than safety.

bearsfan_51
09-14-2008, 03:13 PM
We need a quarterback before we worry about a receiver. Orton can't complete a pass beyond 20 yards, and Grossman can't complete a pass to anyone except the defense.

What's the point of buying a Porsche if you have a blind man drive it?

regoob2
09-14-2008, 03:14 PM
Welp, just about what I expected except the halfs were reversed.

That's a really tough game to lose, and our offense is definately lousy, but I don't think the season is lost by any means.

We played 2 tough road games and are 1-1. I think we'll beat Tampa.
With the way we looked in the pre season 1-1 to open the season against 2 tough road games isn't bad.

sweetness34
09-14-2008, 03:16 PM
Alright so that sucked. Anyone still think that WR isnt a bigger need than safety.

When your QB can't make a pass play down the field it doesn't matter what WR's you have. He missed a wide open Booker for a TD and he missed Davis horribly on an our pattern.

Orton is effective when we don't turn the ball over because he won't make mistakes. But when we do turn the ball over he is not near effective enough to come back and make plays. As I said, I'd rather live and die with Rex who at least gives us a chance to come back if we do get down then watch Orton dink and dunk down the field.

Although Turner's game calling was pretty ******* horrible too. 2nd and 1 and we don't run the ball earlier to get that first down? WR screen on 3rd and 1 at the end of the game? Turner is a genius one week and an idiot the next.

Our defense and ST's aren't good enough though to keep Orton at QB and win if he doesn't start putting up points. VLS and I called this before the season, turn the ball over and we are ****** with Orton at QB.

Gay Ork Wang
09-14-2008, 03:16 PM
those last 2 offensive calls got to be the worst calls ever

regoob2
09-14-2008, 03:17 PM
We need a quarterback before we worry about a receiver. Orton can't complete a pass beyond 20 yards, and Grossman can't complete a pass to anyone except the defense.

What's the point of buying a Porsche if you have a blind man drive it?
Because it would help us stretch the field. They had no respect for our deep ball and yes the fact that Orton is horribly inaccurate is a key but with our QB and lack of a WR that's a bad combination. I'm surprised how well we actually ran as well as we have thus far with nothing else as a threat.

bearsfan_51
09-14-2008, 03:20 PM
Ok but again, you can't stretch the field if you can't throw an accurate deep ball.

And before we bring up Grossman, lets point out that the only reason we were winning that game in the first place is because we were winning the turnover battle. We fell apart because Greg Olsen ****** up twice, but Grossman would have thrown a pick or two and taking 3-4 sacks well before that.

We need both, but we need a QB MUCH more than a receiver.

sweetness34
09-14-2008, 03:21 PM
Orton played well but our lack of a playmaker has showed.

Orton played decent until he had to make plays. Orton dinked and dunked down the field. He managed the game, and once you get down game managers are a bad option to have.

Oh and 51 I agree that the season isn't over but we need to take both home games and Orton/Turner need to step it up. Is it all Kyle's fault? No he had some dropped balls but the one weakness I saw was the lack of a threat in the passing game. He couldn't stretch the defense at all and his deep balls were so far off my little cousin could have done better.

I know 51 is probably going to tell me to **** like usual lol but that's how I see it. I know we have a good team, our defense is awesome, our ST's are awesome, our running game is much improved...Now it's time for our passing game to step it up.

Smokey Joe
09-14-2008, 03:21 PM
Our offense sucks (we have no receivers and we have a QB who can only hit a guy if he's 5 yards down field), but damn, Ron Turner needs to be fired on the spot for his play calling in the second half.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 03:22 PM
Ok but again, you can't stretch the field if you can't throw an accurate deep ball.

And before we bring up Grossman, lets point out that the only reason we were winning that game in the first place is because we were winning the turnover battle. We fell apart because Greg Olsen ****** up twice, but Grossman would have thrown a pick or two and taking 3-4 sacks well before that.

We need both, but we need a QB MUCH more than a receiver.
I agree that QB is our biggest need but I'm just saying that WR is another huge need. I was just saying how people think that S is a bigger need than WR. We have probably the slowest WR core in all of football.

Smokey Joe
09-14-2008, 03:22 PM
Also, besides for the one to Booker, all of Orton's deep passes were useless as Lloyd can't get a step on any receiver.

sweetness34
09-14-2008, 03:23 PM
Our WR's got open, Orton needs to hit them. We are fine at the WR position right now as Lloyd helped out Kyle a couple times and our WR's gave him options.

It's a double edged sword. With Orton you get a dink and dunk offense that will play complacent in hopes that the defense can get you points and/or good field position and we also rely on the run. With Grossman you get a guy who can stretch the field, move the football, and make the defense respect your passing game. Downside is his decision making and his pocket presense.

If Orton doesn't step up next by Week 4 I think it's time to give Rex another shot. Kyle needs to get this offense going because I know he can. He's making the right reads, he needs to make the throws now.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 03:24 PM
Orton played decent until he had to make plays. Orton dinked and dunked down the field. He managed the game, and once you get down game managers are a bad option to have.

Oh and 51 I agree that the season isn't over but we need to take both home games and Orton/Turner need to step it up. Is it all Kyle's fault? No he had some dropped balls but the one weakness I saw was the lack of a threat in the passing game. He couldn't stretch the defense at all and his deep balls were so far off my little cousin could have done better.

I know 51 is probably going to tell me to **** like usual lol but that's how I see it. I know we have a good team, our defense is awesome, our ST's are awesome, our running game is much improved...Now it's time for our passing game to step it up.What? You just said no to WR then you say the one weakness I saw was the lack of a threat in the passing game?

sweetness34
09-14-2008, 03:25 PM
Also, besides for the one to Booker, all of Orton's deep passes were useless as Lloyd can't get a step on any receiver.

Then why throw them? If the deep option isn't open check down. He didn't even give Lloyd a chance though to go and get it. Plus Brandon helped out Orton on that bomb early and down near the goal line. Those throws are on Orton.

Smokey Joe
09-14-2008, 03:26 PM
I agree that QB is our biggest need but I'm just saying that WR is another huge need. I was just saying how people think that S is a bigger need than WR. We have probably the slowest WR core in all of football.
after today, S is moved way down below QB and WR.

I actually feel if we get a WR who can actually get some separation, Orton would actually be able to get some 20 yard+ passes in. Our receivers were over matched all day.

sweetness34
09-14-2008, 03:27 PM
What? You just said no to WR then you say the one weakness I saw was the lack of a threat in the passing game?

Passing game...Key word = pass. Orton missed guys on many ocassion. Would I like another, an upgrade? Sure any team would but our QB problem is much worse right now. You put a good QB on this team and we get things going. Problem is we don't have a good QB on this team. Therefore I think you'll see musical QB's again.

Smokey Joe
09-14-2008, 03:28 PM
Then why throw them? If the deep option isn't open check down. He didn't even give Lloyd a chance though to go and get it. Plus Brandon helped out Orton on that bomb early and down near the goal line. Those throws are on Orton.

What I noticed while watching the game was that none of our receivers could get open. Even when Carolina was putting 8 in the box, none of the could get open.

sweetness34
09-14-2008, 03:28 PM
after today, S is moved way down below QB and WR.

I actually feel if we get a WR who can actually get some separation, Orton would actually be able to get some 20 yard+ passes in. Our receivers were over matched all day.

So Booker getting passed the safety and Orton missing him, Davis getting open on the out route and Orton missing him, some underneath throws aren't separation?

Kyle had a chance to move this team and win this game if he makes throws. He has a terrible deep ball that even when our guys get open he can't hit them.

sweetness34
09-14-2008, 03:32 PM
Perfect example. Orton throws two deep balls to Lloyd, neither of which are even close. Brandon earlier went up for a huge grab on the sideline when Orton gave him a chance to get the ball. Lloyd can go up and get passes in the air, so give him a chance. Don't throw the ball 10 yards out of bounds if you're going deep.

I'm not saying our WR's are great. I'm saying that Orton had 2 huge throws that he need to make and didn't. He also had other ones where he never gave our WR's a chance.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 03:33 PM
Passing game...Key word = pass. Orton missed guys on many ocassion. Would I like another, an upgrade? Sure any team would but our QB problem is much worse right now. You put a good QB on this team and we get things going. Problem is we don't have a good QB on this team. Therefore I think you'll see musical QB's again.
ummm...ok. What game were you watching that our WR were getting open? We hardly even attempted to pass and when we need no one seemed to get open. Our OL played well in the first half but got beat up a lot in the 2nd. We need to upgrade this O of course and I think other than the obvious QB we need to look at WR.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 03:34 PM
I actually thought Orton made 2 nice throws to Lloyd's back shoulder earlier in the game. Lloyd was a pleasant surprise and played really well.

Smokey Joe
09-14-2008, 03:34 PM
Passing game...Key word = pass. Orton missed guys on many ocassion. Would I like another, an upgrade? Sure any team would but our QB problem is much worse right now. You put a good QB on this team and we get things going. Problem is we don't have a good QB on this team. Therefore I think you'll see musical QB's again.
The thing is, who are you going to get to replace Orton by 2009/2010? Stafford? I don't think we are going to be picking in the top 5, and even I, a Stafford fan, have come to think of him as overrated. Tebow? His passing skills aren't that great, but at least he'd provide an extra dimension with his running ability. Hanie? Who knows, he showed more then any other Bear QB has in the past years, and that was only in preseason.

I figure that while we wait for either Sanchez or Bradford (I don't see either coming out after this year), we add some targets for whoever our QB will be while filling in.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 03:35 PM
after today, S is moved way down below QB and WR.
I dont see how anyone thought it wasnt below to begin with.

bearsfan_51
09-14-2008, 03:35 PM
Teeeeeeeeeeboooooooooowww

sweetness34
09-14-2008, 03:35 PM
Um Booker right down the seam that would have been an easy 6 points if he hits him. Davis on the sideline on the out route and Orton throws the ball 10 yards over his head. Clark was constantly getting open, Olsen was constantly getting open (although dropping the ball). Davis was getting open underneath. Lloyd got separation down by the goal line and made some huge catches.

Orton had a chance to win the game, to put up points and he missed his throws to wide open guys. You just cannot do that. He hits Booker and it's game over. He hits Davis we move the sticks and get some momentum back.

Smokey Joe
09-14-2008, 03:36 PM
I dont see how anyone thought it wasnt below to begin with.
I thought Payne played like **** last week, but this week he really improved. I still think SS is still a top 3 rounds need.

sweetness34
09-14-2008, 03:36 PM
I thought Hanie was the future? lol

I think Caleb down the road could be a decent QB but he's certainly a project that needs a lot of time.

sweetness34
09-14-2008, 03:39 PM
I actually thought Orton made 2 nice throws to Lloyd's back shoulder earlier in the game. Lloyd was a pleasant surprise and played really well.

And he gave Lloyd a chance to go and get the ball. On his other 4 deep throws he totally missed his target. That's my point. Get it in the area of our WR's, guys who can make plays and see what happens.

Booker has a guy beat by 5 yards and you miss him. Davis is wide open on a 20 yard out and you totally overthrow him. You launch two deep balls that aren't even close, overthrown by 10 yards and the other one goes out of bounds. Give our guys a chance if you go down field, something he really did not do today.

Smokey Joe
09-14-2008, 03:39 PM
I thought Hanie was the future? lol

I think Caleb down the road could be a decent QB but he's certainly a project that needs a lot of time.
He is...................

sweetness34
09-14-2008, 03:40 PM
Orton's weakness has always been his accuracy down the field. And it showed again today. He corrects that and starts hitting open guys we'll be fine.

sweetness34
09-14-2008, 03:41 PM
He is...................

Based on what? Going against 3rd stringers who are on the PS?

Orton lit up the preseason in his rookie year, and he's not our future QB. Hanie could be a good one, he could also flop. No one knows if he's our future and I'm not about to put all my eggs in his basket.

Smokey Joe
09-14-2008, 03:42 PM
Oh yeah, Greg Olsen is close to going on the bust list, IMO. He is a one dimensional TE who can't even ******* hang on to the ball now. That 07 draft keeps looking worse and worse.

Prince 561
09-14-2008, 03:43 PM
Orton's weakness has always been his accuracy down the field. And it showed again today. He corrects that and starts hitting open guys we'll be fine.

You can't exactly expect a guy to learn to throw a good deep ball overnight. If he's in the NFL and can't do it, chances are he won't be learning anytime soon.

Smokey Joe
09-14-2008, 03:43 PM
Based on what? Going against 3rd stringers who are on the PS?

Orton lit up the preseason in his rookie year, and he's not our future QB. Hanie could be a good one, he could also flop. No one knows if he's our future and I'm not about to put all my eggs in his basket.
Neither am I... but seriously, Hanie is a god. If we are out of it come week 14 or so, I'd love to see Hanie get the final couple of starts.

However, our true future is either Mark Sanchez or Sam Bradford.

bearsfan_51
09-14-2008, 03:45 PM
Olsen close to being a bust? What the ****?

That's like saying Dallas Clark is one-dimensional. Not every tight end needs to be a mauler.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 03:46 PM
And he gave Lloyd a chance to go and get the ball. On his other 4 deep throws he totally missed his target. That's my point. Get it in the area of our WR's, guys who can make plays and see what happens.

Booker has a guy beat by 5 yards and you miss him. Davis is wide open on a 20 yard out and you totally overthrow him. You launch two deep balls that aren't even close, overthrown by 10 yards and the other one goes out of bounds. Give our guys a chance if you go down field, something he really did not do today.
I agree he made some bad throws but every QB has good and bad throws. I just think a #1 WR would be a huge asset. I didnt see all those guys consistently getting separation.

Smokey Joe
09-14-2008, 03:47 PM
Olsen close to being a bust? What the ****?

That's like saying Dallas Clark is one-dimensional. Not every tight end needs to be a mauler.
Yeah, but so far Olsen has only shown some flashes once in a while.

bearsfan_51
09-14-2008, 03:48 PM
He was a ******* rookie last year!!!! Are you serious!?!

Olsen had a really nice rookie season. Come back to reality dude.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 03:49 PM
Oh yeah, Greg Olsen is close to going on the bust list, IMO. He is a one dimensional TE who can't even ******* hang on to the ball now. That 07 draft keeps looking worse and worse.
Yet he was a stud last week on that deep ball. Olsen is still young and everyone knew we was a project in the running game but for what he brings and what he will bring to the passing game he will be worth it. We cant use him in the underneath passing game if we dont have an over the top passing game.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 03:50 PM
Yeah, but so far Olsen has only shown some flashes once in a while.
He's young and no one in our passing game is consistently playing well.

Smokey Joe
09-14-2008, 03:51 PM
any chance we shell out big money and bring in Roy Williams to be our no. 1 in the offseason?

regoob2
09-14-2008, 03:52 PM
any chance we shell out big money and bring in Roy Williams to be our no. 1 in the offseason?
I really hope so and that's gonna be my new sig. Roy Williams, Herman Johnson and I'm not sure about our 3rd round picks. (assuming we get a 3rd for Berrian)

Smokey Joe
09-14-2008, 03:56 PM
I would suggest Lee Evans, but I don't see him leaving the Bills.

Gay Ork Wang
09-14-2008, 03:59 PM
I would suggest Anquan boldin

regoob2
09-14-2008, 04:02 PM
1. Roy Williams
2. Boldin
3. Evans

I prefer big bodied WRs.

Smokey Joe
09-14-2008, 04:02 PM
I would suggest Anquan boldin
If Arizona trades him, which is a huge gigantic IF, it'd require both of our 1st day picks, as well as maybe next year's as well.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 04:03 PM
I would suggest Anquan boldin
Boldin would probably require more than 1 first rounder seeing how he's under contract for the next 3 seasons.

Smokey Joe
09-14-2008, 04:09 PM
He was a ******* rookie last year!!!! Are you serious!?!

Olsen had a really nice rookie season. Come back to reality dude.
just letting off of some steam... He needs to pick up his game, but he's not close to a bust.

Gay Ork Wang
09-14-2008, 04:09 PM
we trade them our first rounder and Grossman!!!!

theillini19
09-14-2008, 04:30 PM
the reason you dont get rid of brian griese i the same reason you dont get rid of muhammed. Muhammed did good and if griese had this run game and could pass to a receiver like muhammed, this passing game would be much better. And if anyone says, oh he threw interceptions, he had no running game and a terrible gameplan. Now is when we need a veteran QB. The one good thing in the pass game was brandon lloyd who i was happy to see the bears pick up in the offseason and hes reliable. I would also like to see more kellen davis getting pass attemptsl.

bearsfan_51
09-14-2008, 04:31 PM
Please go away.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 04:48 PM
the reason you dont get rid of brian griese i the same reason you dont get rid of muhammed. Muhammed did good and if griese had this run game and could pass to a receiver like muhammed, this passing game would be much better. And if anyone says, oh he threw interceptions, he had no running game and a terrible gameplan. Now is when we need a veteran QB. The one good thing in the pass game was brandon lloyd who i was happy to see the bears pick up in the offseason and hes reliable. I would also like to see more kellen davis getting pass attemptsl.
Brian Griese is worse than either QB we have imo. Orton played good at times and bad at times. Moose did **** with us. I saw all the Kellen Davis I wanted to with that piss ass block on the last play we had the ball.

theillini19
09-14-2008, 07:04 PM
you bears fans are the stupidest fans on the planet. You keep talking about orton and grossman when for a long time they have suck. neither of them should be an option but because you have the same mentality as the stupid front office the bears wont get a decent Qb at all like the chance they had in this draft but your all ********.

theillini19
09-14-2008, 07:05 PM
and if griese so bad why did he in and orton didnt.

theillini19
09-14-2008, 07:06 PM
why did he win and the even sign him last year if they just were going to release him.

dabears10
09-14-2008, 07:22 PM
you bears fans are the stupidest fans on the planet. You keep talking about orton and grossman when for a long time they have suck. neither of them should be an option but because you have the same mentality as the stupid front office the bears wont get a decent Qb at all like the chance they had in this draft but your all ********.

Who were the decent QB's that we could have drafted. The only thing that could have been done was to trade down a little and get Flacco probably a little higher than he should have. We are just saying that Griese is not a decent QB.
Why spend a pick on a person who you don't believe will be good for your team? If there is a QB the front office believes in he will be drafted. You are giving examples of back-up QB's like we are saying we wouldn't want Romo, Manning, Brady, or even Delhomme. There is a reason Griese has bounced around the NFL.

Smokey Joe
09-14-2008, 07:35 PM
In hindsight, it looks like it would have been better off for us to have just drafted Flacco this year and get a LT in the first round next year.

Bearsfan123
09-14-2008, 07:38 PM
He was a ******* rookie last year!!!! Are you serious!?!

Olsen had a really nice rookie season. Come back to reality dude.

As i read this thread I thought this was the best post to quote.

Its only the second game.

Orton and Lloyd, and Davis are all still getting in rythm. Im still on his bandwagon, though everyone else seems to be leaping over ledges and ******** bricks. We lost the game, wow, big surprise. Should we of? No, but hell, the best team doesn't always win. Orton started taking the majority of the snaps with the first team about a month and a week ago. Im giving him 4 more games at the least before I say he needs to go. We all knew his downfield passing was a weakness, so it should have surprised no one that he wasnt great at it. Despite that, and bad playcalling, we were in a position to tie the game near the end. If only Kellen Davis blocks the blitzing backer, we pick up the first and maybe have that chance. It was a bad call, but hell it happens. Olsen had a terrible game, again im not gonna flip out over it. He should improve. Give this team a chance. It just went from being a terrible team to somehow being decent. Give it time to gel.

Bearsfan123
09-14-2008, 07:45 PM
and if griese so bad why did he in and orton didnt.

LOL Griese is terrible. And he will never, ever win when he has to make a play, and he cannot manage a game. He is just terrible. Oh and Chad Hutchinson won a game too, wow he turned out awesome. He was on KC some time last year I think.

Stop thinking you know anything about QBs and start thinking about how to get your point across less foolishly. All you have done so far is make enemies, and that is not a good way to start.

I bring up QBs because you wanted us to sign, an already signed Leftwich, who was terrible in Jax and would have been worse with us. I dont mind differing in opinion, but you didn't know much about the subject, made a thread suggesting a course of action, and didn't consult anyone else in the matter.

theillini19
09-14-2008, 08:10 PM
first of all your a bears fan who is so narrow minded you think orton and grossman are decent quarterbacks when they have proven for years neither is remotely good enough to start for a nfl franchise and everyone else around the league knows it. The whole point about bringing in a quarterback is they should have taken a shot at possibly brohm or henne at the very least when everyone including alot of bears fans or analyst or anyone who follows football knows that they cant perform on that good of a level. But i guess its pointless to go back now so i would say if their going to try and change things up i would go with haine as soon as possible, and i know hes injured, but at least try and put someone out there who can make a difference in the right direction.

bearsfan_51
09-14-2008, 08:13 PM
I think we should uniformally agree to ignore this guy and hope that he finds a new place to talk.

It's not even so much the fact that you don't know **** that bothers me, your English is just unreadable.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 08:17 PM
first of all your a bears fan who is so narrow minded you think orton and grossman are decent quarterbacks when they have proven for years neither is remotely good enough to start for a nfl franchise and everyone else around the league knows it. The whole point about bringing in a quarterback is they should have taken a shot at possibly brohm or henne at the very least when everyone including alot of bears fans or analyst or anyone who follows football knows that they cant perform on that good of a level. But i guess its pointless to go back now so i would say if their going to try and change things up i would go with haine as soon as possible, and i know hes injured, but at least try and put someone out there who can make a difference in the right direction.Are you saying we should trade for one of those guys now? The bears said there were a handful of QBs they liked and we obviously didnt take one of them so we probably didnt like em that much. Last years QB class outside of Matt Ryan wasn't very good. You keep saying how bad our QBs are but you wanted us to keep Griese who is even worse and has to upside. Orton helps us win game the best way we know how. (D, run game, STs) Griese turned the ball over a lot last year and Orton out played him to take over the #2 spot. I would love an upgrade at QB just like every Bears fan on this site would but I dont see one out there at the present moment.

bearfan
09-14-2008, 08:23 PM
first of all your a bears fan who is so narrow minded you think orton and grossman are decent quarterbacks when they have proven for years neither is remotely good enough to start for a nfl franchise and everyone else around the league knows it. The whole point about bringing in a quarterback is they should have taken a shot at possibly brohm or henne

1st unbolded: You're talking about giving a rookie QB a chance, what has he proved....
2nd bolded: In hindsight, Im glad we didnt take those QBs. Forte has given his 2nd 100+ total yards day. He'll be the centerpiece in our offense for a while, Ill take that instant inpact who then impacts later over a QB that we have to wait for.

As for the game today, I think the playcalling lost it for us. We were mixing it up at the beginning, and it worked. The station showed a stat about YPC on respective downs. 1st down was in the low 2s. After that, I noticed that we ran just about every 1st down. NO WONDER WE HAD SUCH LOW YPC ON 1ST!

I blame Olsen more than I do Orton, his 2 fumbles came in the worst spots: in field goal range, and giving the panthers a chance to score. Orton missed on his deep passes, we all knew it was a problem for him, but he needs to be able to connect on half of those. If he did, I think we win the game, but he has pretty much the same stats as last week. We all wanted consistancy ;)

Forte is the man.

Gay Ork Wang
09-15-2008, 12:34 AM
He is talking like we all ******* love our QBs

awfullyquiet
09-15-2008, 03:36 PM
Why did we continue to throw 8 15+ passes?

I think it's just a matter of time before those deep passes will start sailing like grossmans into the hands of corners and safeties.

Turners inadequacy strike day 394.

sweetness34
09-15-2008, 03:58 PM
Orton by no means played bad, but he has to have a lot of offensive support to be successful. He didn't turn the ball over and didn't put our team in jeopardy field position wise. But once we got down, he couldn't bring us back. He had two big opportunites to either get a touchdown or move into Panther territory and he missed badly on those throws.

As an NFL QB, you have to hit open guys, you just have to. Especially when your gameplan isn't going to be centered on going down field. When the shots are there, you have to convert. You just have to.

No one here is expecting us to have a Colt like passing game. But I do expect our starting QB to hit open targets down the field when he has to. And that is something he has struggled mightily with over his career.

Neither QB is a good fit for this team, which is why I think you'll see a musical chair QB situation again this season. The defense and ST's aren't good enough, or well effective enough this year to help out Orton as much as he needs it and Grossman although much more of a threat passing the ball has much more of a risk of turning it over.

I agree with Smokey, if our season does go to hell or if neither of these guys can get it done why not throw in Hanie. We aren't going to win the Super Bowl this year and it's still going to be tough to make the playoffs, so why not throw in the young kid and see what he's got. We've got nothing to lose, and with all the hype he's gotten put him in there and see what he's got. Is he our savior? Hell no. But he could be an option down the road.

bearfan
09-15-2008, 06:03 PM
I disagree that neither QB is good for the team. Orton is what we have been looking for. If he could add a bit more firepower, the better, but with Orton in the game we play Chicago Bear football: hardnosed running, ball control offense which leads to a healthier energized defense. If Orton could up up between 175 and 225 yards a week with an occasional TD I would be happy. 150 isnt awful considering the offense we run, but the number above are similar to the Eli Manning playoff run numbers. He didnt get to flashy, he played safe. Thats what we need this season, and probably the next few until we develop a QB.

awfullyquiet
09-15-2008, 07:44 PM
I disagree that neither QB is good for the team. Orton is what we have been looking for. If he could add a bit more firepower, the better, but with Orton in the game we play Chicago Bear football: hardnosed running, ball control offense which leads to a healthier energized defense. If Orton could up up between 175 and 225 yards a week with an occasional TD I would be happy. 150 isnt awful considering the offense we run, but the number above are similar to the Eli Manning playoff run numbers. He didnt get to flashy, he played safe. Thats what we need this season, and probably the next few until we develop a QB.

With orton we're at best an 8-8 team. He can't make the plays that will win us games, and in turn we will lose some games because of him. yes, part of it is directly attributed to calling for the deep ball a little too much.

here... let me point you toward something that makes orton seem a little dopey...

"This was a perfect storm of two Greg Olsen fumbles, two Jason McKie penalties, Rashied Davis' drops and penalties, Kyle Orton overthrowing Marty Booker and underthrowing Davis, Orton audibling out of a Matt Forte run up the middle on 3rd and 1 from midfield and Ron Turner calling a fullback dive on the next play.

Turner took the blame for Orton's audible, too. Haugh quotes him: "I could have given him a better call and not given him that option." "

http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports_whatsgoinon/2008/09/covering-the--2.html

bearsfan_51
09-15-2008, 07:53 PM
Yeah there's no possibly way we could go 11-5 with Orton as our QB.

Oh wait.....

bearfan
09-15-2008, 08:04 PM
This loss was bad, but I think it shows that we can keep up w/ the NFC. The Panthers so far are looking to be a very solid team through two weeks, I would say that they got lucky, but the bears shot themselves in the foot. I would say possibly 10-6 if we keep healthy, and if we get lucky. Minimum 7-9. Before the season, I said we would be lucky to win 6.

sweetness34
09-16-2008, 12:15 PM
Yeah there's no possibly way we could go 11-5 with Orton as our QB.

Oh wait.....

That was when our defense was flat out dominant and won him ball games, even you yourself said it, Orton didn't win those games, the defense, running game, and ST's did, he was just along for the ride. Without the threat of Hester returning kicks and punts and with our defensive level taking a step down, I don't see any way we go 11-5 with Orton at QB unless he starts making more big plays. Our running game/offensive line was stronger as well when he was the starter.

sweetness34
09-16-2008, 12:21 PM
I disagree that neither QB is good for the team. Orton is what we have been looking for. If he could add a bit more firepower, the better, but with Orton in the game we play Chicago Bear football: hardnosed running, ball control offense which leads to a healthier energized defense. If Orton could up up between 175 and 225 yards a week with an occasional TD I would be happy. 150 isnt awful considering the offense we run, but the number above are similar to the Eli Manning playoff run numbers. He didnt get to flashy, he played safe. Thats what we need this season, and probably the next few until we develop a QB.

**** the hard nosed football. We don't have the Offensive Line to run over teams this year and wear them down. WE HAVE TO HAVE A PASSING GAME of some kind, one that can stretch the field.

Look at our first two games and then go back and read what I said after Week 1. We played perfect against Indianapolis and knocked them off. No turnovers, no bad penalties, ran the ball, stopped the run, moved the chains, etc...Against Carolina Orton was fine until he couldn't move the offense and we turned the ball over. Two turnovers, massive amounts of penalties, no consistency in running game, and we couldn't stop Stewart.

And when we needed Orton to step up and make a big play, he whiffed...Twice, and whiffed badly. We do not have the supporting cast for him to just "manage the game" anymore because we are not going to play a perfect game every week like we did in Indy. Once turnovers start happening, once offenses move the ball on our defense, and once penalties kick in...Orton cannot bring this team back. He managed the game in Week 1 and got a win thanks to a great running game and a great defense. He managed the game in week 1 and lost thanks to two fumbles, massive penalties, horrible field position for the defense, etc...He's got to be more than a manager now, he needs to make some ******* plays in the passing game instead of 5 yard slant patterns, dump offs, screens, and hitches.

sweetness34
09-16-2008, 12:23 PM
Otherwise teams are going to stack 8 or 9 in the box every time and dare Orton to throw downfield. This is not the same team that he went 11-5 with, and he needs to pick his game up.

Gay Ork Wang
09-16-2008, 12:24 PM
so what do u suggest? put in grossman who cant even win the games we are perferctly in? I mean he might win 40% of the games we need him to, but he will also lose 60% of the games we only need him to manage the game. He will cause problems that we dont have with orton and he wont solve all the problems we have with Orton

Hurricane Ditka
09-16-2008, 02:05 PM
Where do I buy my ticket for the Tebow bandwagon?

Geo
09-16-2008, 02:10 PM
That was when our defense was flat out dominant and won him ball games, even you yourself said it, Orton didn't win those games, the defense, running game, and ST's did, he was just along for the ride. Without the threat of Hester returning kicks and punts and with our defensive level taking a step down, I don't see any way we go 11-5 with Orton at QB unless he starts making more big plays. Our running game/offensive line was stronger as well when he was the starter.
Devin Hester wasn't on the '05 Bears ...

sweetness34
09-16-2008, 02:25 PM
Devin Hester wasn't on the '05 Bears ...

Yes but we still had a good return game (Vasher's FG touchdown), Gould, and Maynard. Plus great coverage teams.

sweetness34
09-16-2008, 02:32 PM
so what do u suggest? put in grossman who cant even win the games we are perferctly in? I mean he might win 40% of the games we need him to, but he will also lose 60% of the games we only need him to manage the game. He will cause problems that we dont have with orton and he wont solve all the problems we have with Orton

Grossman played very well after coming back from his benching last year. We are a playoff caliber team, and if Orton isn't making plays by Week 4 then I'd like to see Rex get a shot. If that doesn't work it's time for Hanie.

The truth is, there is no right answer because both of these QB's have their weaknesses with this team. Orton is very careful with the ball but doesn't put up points and relies on the defense too much. Rex can make plays and move this offense but he also turns the ball over.

It's going to be musical chairs again this year at QB, but at least Rex gives our offense a shot to put up points. And if Orton hasn't stepped after Week 4, I'd give Rex one last shot. We know what both QB's are. Orton's not going to move this offense much. We know what Rex is. I guess with Orton you can say he gives our team a chance to win since he doesn't turn the ball over. But Orton needs to start making some plays when they are there. That deep ball to Booker has to be completed.

And he's almost had two Interceptions. Hayden dropped one and he threw into triple coverage and Carolina almost picked him off, so it's not like he isn't making mistakes. Just as easily as he has 0 INT's he could have had 2 already, and that would not be playing mistake free football.

Our offense is dull and boring. At least Rex adds some excitement to it. ;)

regoob2
09-16-2008, 02:37 PM
Where do I buy my ticket for the Tebow bandwagon?
BF51 has them all pre ordered you can get one from him.

regoob2
09-16-2008, 02:39 PM
We should let Orton start the game but if we're losing late we should bring in Rex. lol Imagine the look on Orton's face when Rex actually brings us back.

sweetness34
09-16-2008, 05:13 PM
We are stuck between a rock and a hard place with both QB's, but we might as well unleash some dragons while we're at it. :D

regoob2
09-16-2008, 05:55 PM
We are stuck between a rock and a hard place with both QB's, but we might as well unleash some dragons while we're at it. :D
I agree we suck anyway and Grossman has upside. **** it throw the long ball!!!!

awfullyquiet
09-16-2008, 06:22 PM
We should let Orton start the game but if we're losing late we should bring in Rex. lol Imagine the look on BF_51's face when Rex actually brings us back.

actually, i don't think he'd make a face, he'd swear quietly to himself and then proceed to call grossman an incompetent fool. which is still right.

he's the joey harrington of the bears.

bearsfan_51
09-16-2008, 06:39 PM
I assure you that I'm happy when we win, regardless of why.

I used to support Rex over Orton, but Rex has gotten progressively worse since 2005. He's not getting better with age, he's getting worse. There's nothing to build off of anymore.

awfullyquiet
09-16-2008, 11:14 PM
I assure you that I'm happy when we win, regardless of why.

But, you can't say you're happy if you win, if you win like the lions do.

Not often. If we cant sustain winning, it's like... liking the brewers for anything other than the beer.

regoob2
09-19-2008, 12:37 PM
We look like the exact same team on paper so what gives. We have home field advantage but they have a better coaching staff. Hopefully we can cause some Griese turnovers and come out on top. I had the Bucs winning until I read there injury report and I think we should win this game. I think it will be a close one 16-13 DA BEARS!!!!!

Gay Ork Wang
09-19-2008, 01:12 PM
if all those guys stay injured...we can win

awfullyquiet
09-19-2008, 02:40 PM
We look like the exact same team on paper so what gives. We have home field advantage but they have a better coaching staff. Hopefully we can cause some Griese turnovers and come out on top. I had the Bucs winning until I read there injury report and I think we should win this game. I think it will be a close one 16-13 DA BEARS!!!!!

It also helps that most of our defense has seen greezy for a few years now...

i say 24-13 Bears...

Caddy
09-20-2008, 03:30 AM
I think this will be a great match-up. Two very good defenses battling it out for the win. I think whoever wins the turnover battle will win the game.

bearsfan_51
09-20-2008, 12:56 PM
I think if we have Hester we'll win, if not it's going to be much harder to win the field position battle, ala Carolina.

sweetness34
09-20-2008, 01:08 PM
Ok question;

Why not put Hester out there anyway for punts? Would Tampa kick to him because he's hurt? Or would they still kick away?

I don't want him injured so if they do kick to him, I say fair catch it if he's injured but we could use him as a decoy to get some field position.

bearsfan_51
09-20-2008, 01:10 PM
I don't think you play anyone if they are hurt. First of all I don't think it'll work, second of all I think it's a terrible policy as far as team/player relations are concerned.

regoob2
09-20-2008, 02:37 PM
I don't think you play anyone if they are hurt. First of all I don't think it'll work, second of all I think it's a terrible policy as far as team/player relations are concerned.
I think it depends on the seriousness of the injury. If it's bruised ribs then I think he should be back there at least as a decoy.

bearsfan_51
09-20-2008, 02:41 PM
He tore the cartilidge off his ribs. Think about that for a second.

awfullyquiet
09-20-2008, 02:59 PM
He tore the cartilidge off his ribs. Think about that for a second.

And that's not something you deal with. That **** probably hurts a ton, and he'd have to slide and not be able to take hits to his ribs.

AKA. Pretty much what he does anyway... everyone tries to armtackle him, because they can't get their body on him without him juking and spinning away...

BUSTKUNTLAWL
09-20-2008, 03:34 PM
Ok question;

Why not put Hester out there anyway for punts? Would Tampa kick to him because he's hurt? Or would they still kick away?

I don't want him injured so if they do kick to him, I say fair catch it if he's injured but we could use him as a decoy to get some field position.

I am no doctor, but I would assume it would hurt even to raise his arms to signal for a fair catch.

If he's hurt he shouldn't play.

Vasher is a pretty decent punt returner .. Throw him back there.

awfullyquiet
09-20-2008, 03:37 PM
I am no doctor, but I would assume it would hurt even to raise his arms to signal for a fair catch.

If he's hurt he shouldn't play.

Vasher is a pretty decent punt returner .. Throw him back there.

Hell. Throw Danieal Manning back there too. I'd like that. If he won't hit, let him be hit.

regoob2
09-20-2008, 03:38 PM
He tore the cartilidge off his ribs. Think about that for a second.If it's that serious then why is he questionable.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
09-20-2008, 03:45 PM
If it's that serious then why is he questionable.

What is the upside of saying he is not going to play?

It gives Gruden something else to prepare for.

bearfan
09-20-2008, 03:51 PM
I hope that they dont throw Vasher back there again. I know he is a fairly decent returner, but when he got hurt last year, I think it hurt more than everyone thinks. He came back late, and our defense played very very well. I wouldnt want to risk any injury to Vasher. Throw D.Manning or E.Bennett back there. Hell, Wolfe wouldnt be bad to try out.

regoob2
09-20-2008, 03:53 PM
What is the upside of saying he is not going to play?

It gives Gruden something else to prepare for.
It's not like they can simulate Hester in practice any way.

sweetness34
09-20-2008, 04:04 PM
Yea that's what I thought. It's not worth risking an injury to one of most potent weapons. If he's good to go, he's good to go. If he's not fully healthy, sit him and let him heal up.

awfullyquiet
09-20-2008, 04:07 PM
I hope that they dont throw Vasher back there again. I know he is a fairly decent returner, but when he got hurt last year, I think it hurt more than everyone thinks. He came back late, and our defense played very very well. I wouldnt want to risk any injury to Vasher. Throw D.Manning or E.Bennett back there. Hell, Wolfe wouldnt be bad to try out.

Wolfe hasn't shown he can do it quite like manning can. I don't like Vasher returning anything ever.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
09-20-2008, 04:11 PM
It's not like they can simulate Hester in practice any way.

Well, knowing that you do not have to kick to Hester you prepare your special teams differently.

Wolfe is a serious liability returning kicks.. He fumbled a few kicks in the pre-season if I remember correctly.

awfullyquiet
09-20-2008, 04:26 PM
Well, knowing that you do not have to kick to Hester you prepare your special teams differently.

Wolfe is a serious liability returning kicks.. He fumbled a few kicks in the pre-season if I remember correctly.

Mhmm. He needs to get his head in the game. I know he has the ability to do it, he just can't seem to come up with it and hold onto it. I don't think he's unable to, besides, we do have the best ST coordinator in the game right now...

regoob2
09-20-2008, 04:27 PM
Earl Bennett has no speed, it should be Hester or Manning if Hester cant go.

bearfan
09-20-2008, 07:01 PM
Earl Bennett has no speed, it should be Hester or Manning if Hester cant go.

Earl Bennett had a return TD in preseason. I believe overall he didnt look terrible returning kicks either.

Smokey Joe
09-21-2008, 10:30 AM
Bears 20, Bucs 14.

bearsfan_51
09-21-2008, 10:40 AM
I think this is going to be close, the Bucs are always much better than I think they'll be, so I'm trying to not underestimate them here.

bearsfan_51
09-21-2008, 11:59 AM
Does anyone have an audio link? The 780 broadcast link from the Bears website isn't working.

Marlo
09-21-2008, 12:00 PM
Does anyone have an audio link? The 780 broadcast link from the Bears website isn't working.

You can stream the game live...

bearsfan_51
09-21-2008, 12:02 PM
You can stream the game live...

Any video I've ever tried is incredibly slow and choppy.

awfullyquiet
09-21-2008, 12:19 PM
Does anyone have an audio link? The 780 broadcast link from the Bears website isn't working.

edit: nevermind

bearsfan_51
09-21-2008, 12:20 PM
I actually got it to work. They fixed it.

awfullyquiet
09-21-2008, 12:40 PM
I'm unhappy so far.

Pass blocking is so bad.

bearsfan_51
09-21-2008, 12:46 PM
Ugh...our offense is dreadfully bad.

awfullyquiet
09-21-2008, 12:48 PM
Ugh...our offense is dreadfully bad.

If forte came down with it... I'd be crying now.

bearsfan_51
09-21-2008, 12:54 PM
This is ******* terrible. We atempt one pass more than 5 yards and it gets picked off. THe other team doesn't even need safties. I'm really starting to reconsider my position on the quarterbacks.

bearsfan_51
09-21-2008, 12:56 PM
Oh...and Brad Maynard ******* sucks this year.

awfullyquiet
09-21-2008, 01:09 PM
This is ******* terrible. We atempt one pass more than 5 yards and it gets picked off. THe other team doesn't even need safties. I'm really starting to reconsider my position on the quarterbacks.

that pickoff was hellaciously lame too.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
09-21-2008, 01:27 PM
Honestly, Orton is atrocious. I don't know how anyone thought this team could make the playoffs with him at the helm.

This offense is like it was with Shoop here.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
09-21-2008, 01:39 PM
Is it just me or is Dexter Jackson the biggest ***** on the field?

Every kick return he has "slipped" to avoid a hit.

BeerBaron
09-21-2008, 02:35 PM
Orton's turned it around quite a bit from what i can tell.

I'm so very glad we have Forte too...

bearsfan_51
09-21-2008, 02:38 PM
Umm..yes I would say so. The Bucs are pretty banged up, and awful to boot, it really shouldn't have been this close.

BeerBaron
09-21-2008, 02:39 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/BeerBaron/OrtonRulez.jpg

not going to get to see that very often...haha

bearsfan_51
09-21-2008, 02:40 PM
Of course now we let Griese march right down the field....wtf!?!?

BeerBaron
09-21-2008, 02:42 PM
christ........ is our D this un-clutch?

BeerBaron
09-21-2008, 02:43 PM
And apparently Wale is now hurt....hope it wasn't serious, I couldn't see it

bearsfan_51
09-21-2008, 02:47 PM
He's walking under his own power, shouldn't be too bad.

dunagan15
09-21-2008, 03:32 PM
choked...damn

Gay Ork Wang
09-21-2008, 03:34 PM
******* Refs
******* Trueblood
******* Tillman

and in the end:

******* CHOKERS

bearsfan_51
09-21-2008, 03:34 PM
That was ******* pathetic. I'm done with this team. It's one thing to lose, it's another to continually give it away with stupid decisions and mistakes.

**** it.

zCaddyz
09-21-2008, 03:37 PM
good game bears, dont it suck too see two bad qbs play?

sweetness34
09-21-2008, 03:52 PM
We had them stopped, we had good field position had they punted. And we lose our cool. Yes I saw what Trueblood's ***** ass did and it was cheap, but god dammit Tillman.

I'm still not sold on Orton. Did he play well in the 2nd Half? Yes, but he was also the idiot who gave them a defensive TD and choked away points on his first interception. He still can't throw a deep ball to save his life. Thankfully Lloyd can make plays, and thankfully Forte can actually do something other than run the ball.

Still don't think this season is over, our schedule gets much easier as the season goes on and the NFC is still ******* horrid.

GB12
09-21-2008, 03:54 PM
I'm still not sold on Orton. Did he play well in the 2nd Half? Yes, but he was also the idiot who gave them a defensive TD and choked away points on his first interception. He still can't throw a deep ball to save his life. Thankfully Lloyd can make plays, and thankfully Forte can actually do something other than run the ball.
I don't know why you would be sold on Orton. He's someone I'd love to have as a backup, but you need a starter.

sweetness34
09-21-2008, 04:00 PM
I don't know why you would be sold on Orton. He's someone I'd love to have as a backup, but you need a starter.

Well he did play better today, in the second half. But he still threw a pick 6 and threw away points on his first INT.

If Orton is our QB, he cannot turn the ******* ball over. Period. If this is the case then put Rex in there, at least he'll give us a chance to come back.

Gay Ork Wang
09-21-2008, 04:00 PM
I don't know why you would be sold on Orton. He's someone I'd love to have as a backup, but you need a starter.
well if he plays like he did in the 2nd half im happy

bearsfan_51
09-21-2008, 04:05 PM
The NFC isn't horrid at all. In fact I think it's well ahead of the AFC at this point. Just look at the last few weeks.

GB12
09-21-2008, 04:06 PM
The NFC isn't horrid at all. In fact I think it's well ahead of the AFC at this point. Just look at the last few weeks.
I don't know how that fits in here, but I agree. The NFC looks far superior this year.

bearsfan_51
09-21-2008, 04:07 PM
I was responding to Sweetness, didn't feel like quoting.

Gay Ork Wang
09-21-2008, 04:07 PM
I don't know how that fits in here, but I agree. The NFC looks far superior this year.
The only good team now is Denver

GB12
09-21-2008, 04:09 PM
The only good team now is Denver
And Pittsburgh

sweetness34
09-21-2008, 04:11 PM
Pittsburgh is good as well. Tennessee looks strong, Buffalo has started off well...When Sanders gets back Indy will be dominant again and San Diego is still there.

I did brain fart on the season so far with the NFC as Philly, Dallas, New York, Green Bay, Carolina, Washington, etc have all started off well.

Smokey Joe
09-21-2008, 04:57 PM
I'm not gonna blame Tillman for today's loss as he saw his teammate getting pounded on and he tried to pull the Bucs off of his teammates. The refs completely missed Trueblood taking shots at whoever that was. Did Tillman do the right thing, no. But I am not going to fault the guy for sticking up for his teammates. Plus, if we didn't have Tillman in that game, we wouldn't have even been in overtime. Tillman made a lot of good plays for us, including a big forced fumble.

I blame our coaching, and the refs. On that one kickoff after the touchdown, that was clearly a fumble, but the stupid ass ref called him down, and because of that, you wouldn't be able to tell who would recover it, even though there were 5+ bears around the ball and only 1 Buc. And then the ref completely missing Trueblood throwing punches while our guy was on the ground was ridiculous. The incident occurred right in front of him!

This year's team is too similar to last years, too many missed opportunities. I would think Lovie and the whole coaching staff is on the hot seat now.

bearfan
09-21-2008, 04:59 PM
Well he did play better today, in the second half. But he still threw a pick 6 and threw away points on his first INT.

If Orton is our QB, he cannot turn the ******* ball over. Period. If this is the case then put Rex in there, at least he'll give us a chance to come back.

Idk when you posted this, but Orton came back and helped us to 15pts giving us a 10pt lead. Pick 6 hurt, but he bounced back. Thats something Rex couldnt do. Leave Orton in.

Smokey Joe
09-21-2008, 04:59 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why exactly we were giving Tampa the whole middle of the field on that final drive of the game.

Smokey Joe
09-21-2008, 05:01 PM
Well he did play better today, in the second half. But he still threw a pick 6 and threw away points on his first INT.

If Orton is our QB, he cannot turn the ******* ball over. Period. If this is the case then put Rex in there, at least he'll give us a chance to come back.
His first pick was purely luck on part of the Bucs, and still, Forte should have caught it.

sweetness34
09-21-2008, 05:04 PM
But still, Orton throws a pick 6 touchdown. Orton throws a huge interception in the endzone which negates points for us. Gould missses a 49 yard field goal.

This team should be 3-0. We just aren't making the plays at the end of the game to win. We dominate early and fall apart. We relied on our defense to come through and they didn't in the end. Should 4 turnovers be enough to win? Sure, but we had a chance to stop them in the end and couldn't.

The refs made some bad calls but it didn't "decide" the game. Sure it impacted it but we fell apart. Dropped passes, missed open targets, no pass rush, penalties, turnovers, etc...

This season is still not over. Time to right the ship, we beat Philly next week which seems possible with both Westbrook and McNabb leaving today's game and it's a whole new season.

sweetness34
09-21-2008, 05:05 PM
Idk when you posted this, but Orton came back and helped us to 15pts giving us a 10pt lead. Pick 6 hurt, but he bounced back. Thats something Rex couldnt do. Leave Orton in.

As did the interception in the endzone. As did the missed open targets . He has to be more consistent because apart from two second half drives, he was terrible.

I don't trust him to do what he did today on a regular basis. Our passing game with him in there is still garbage, he can't throw down the field, and teams are going to keep coming after him.

sweetness34
09-21-2008, 05:07 PM
His first pick was purely luck on part of the Bucs, and still, Forte should have caught it.

**** that. He had Forte, he underthrew him. You're asking a RB to go up for a jump ball. He leads him it's a TD. That is not on Matt Forte considering he was our entire offense today.

I'm tired of the excuses for Orton. He has to play better, like he did in the 2nd Half. He does that and we get rolling again. He plays like he did in the first half and we are looking at a high draft pick.

sweetness34
09-21-2008, 05:08 PM
How many times did Ryan say that Kyle underthrew a long pass today? Or missed a reciever? Booker had a step and he underthrew him. Forte had a step and he underthrew him. Missed passes in the flats, missed passes on slants. Way too inconsistent today from our QB.

Our WR's got separation, and he couldn't get it downfield (apart from 2 drives).

bearfan
09-21-2008, 05:14 PM
He had 65% completion. He underthrew a few balls, mostly the booker one. I still think Forte could have had that catch, he had it in his arms.

Smokey Joe
09-21-2008, 05:19 PM
**** that. He had Forte, he underthrew him. You're asking a RB to go up for a jump ball. He leads him it's a TD. That is not on Matt Forte considering he was our entire offense today.

I'm tired of the excuses for Orton. He has to play better, like he did in the 2nd Half. He does that and we get rolling again. He plays like he did in the first half and we are looking at a high draft pick.
Yeah, Orton under threw the ball, it was a bad pass. But that shouldn't excuse Forte from dropping it.

Also, if Davis doesn't a drop a perfect pass right to him, we win that game. I think it's safe to say Davis is not an answer at WR, and with the way he's played the past 2 weeks, I'd make him inactive for next weeks game and see what Bennett can do.

No one argues the fact that Orton isn't the answer, but neither is Grossman. And if I had to choose between the two, I'd take Orton any day of the week, as would most sane people. Grossman might have the better physical tools, but he is lacking between the ears. And I hate how you talk about that pick 6 Orton threw. You say it as if Grossman wouldn't have already thrown about 6 INT's already on this season.

awfullyquiet
09-21-2008, 05:57 PM
The refs made some bad calls but it didn't "decide" the game. Sure it impacted it but we fell apart. Dropped passes, missed open targets, no pass rush, penalties, turnovers, etc...

um. it was pretty close though... tillman should be knocked for running in like that... but, of course. trueblood was being a major ass... he'll get fined, but that's a big loss right there...

the teams is good, plays it close... it sucked for us this year... our defense stepped up when it counted, but again... couldn't close it...

Smokey Joe
09-21-2008, 06:34 PM
What Tillman did was stupid. But you can't fault a guy for sticking up for his teammates.

bearfan
09-21-2008, 06:43 PM
It was stupid, and noble for him to stick up for his teammate. But it was stupid. As noble as it was, he needs to keep his head out there.

bearsfan_51
09-21-2008, 06:53 PM
What Tillman did was stupid. But you can't fault a guy for sticking up for his teammates.
I absolutely can blame him. It was so ******* ridiculously stupid and selfish (yes, selfish) that I am still having a hard time finding the words for the general feeling of hate I feel towards him right now. I don't care how many plays he made, that's part of his job, I care that he completely lost us that game over something so incredibly stupid as that. It's probably a good thing I'm not the GM this time, because I would suspend him for at least two games. Also, let's not blame this on both sides, the Bucs had NOTHING to lose by getting a personal foul. Nothing.

Pathetic. Stupid. Arrogant. The 2008 Chicago Bears.

BUSTKUNTLAWL
09-21-2008, 07:20 PM
I would have lived with the penalty if it wasn't fourth down in f*cking OVERTIME with the opposing team punting from their endzone.

There is a time to stick up for your guys and that was not it.

Smokey Joe
09-21-2008, 07:43 PM
I absolutely can blame him. It was so ******* ridiculously stupid and selfish (yes, selfish) that I am still having a hard time finding the words for the general feeling of hate I feel towards him right now. I don't care how many plays he made, that's part of his job, I care that he completely lost us that game over something so incredibly stupid as that. It's probably a good thing I'm not the GM this time, because I would suspend him for at least two games. Also, let's not blame this on both sides, the Bucs had NOTHING to lose by getting a personal foul. Nothing.

Pathetic. Stupid. Arrogant. The 2008 Chicago Bears.
Selfish? Tommie Harris actually defended Tillman.

Also, the play that cost us the game was Rashied Davis completely dropping a 3rd down pass right in his hand that would have put us in field goal range in OT.

bearsfan_51
09-21-2008, 09:29 PM
Selfish? Tommie Harris actually defended Tillman.

Also, the play that cost us the game was Rashied Davis completely dropping a 3rd down pass right in his hand that would have put us in field goal range in OT.

Oh, so if Tommie Harris, his teamate, stood up for him, that means its not selfish? What do you expect him to say, that Tillman ****** the entire team over by running 20 yards out of the play and taking an obvious shot at someone when the game was literally on the line. There were 19 other players that could have done something stupid like that and didn't.

I am much more willing to excuse a bad play, than a stupid one. Not to mention that Tillman makes about 800 times more than Rashied Davis. If we're counting on Orton and Rashied Davis to win us the game we've already lost. He ******* lost us that game. And he did it for no other reason than his own stupid and selfish reaction. There's no arguing against that.

He should be severely fined. But he won't be, because the organization clearly is more interested in protecting people's feelings than winning ballgames.

bearfan
09-21-2008, 10:50 PM
I think the most frusturating thing besides losing like we did is seeing all the Orton bashing on the forums (aka CBMB).
Orton played well today, and here is why:
-He made mistakes in the 1st 1/2. We were down 14-9 mainly because of him.
-2nd half came out, and got the team 15pts with his arm. This gives us our 10pt lead. He bounced back, which I think is very important.
-Ended up with a respectable game statisticly 268yards, completing nearly 65% of his passes.

His mistakes hurt us, but in the end, it was the defense who let Griese march down field in the 4th quarter. The 10pt lead that Orton had gotten us. Orton shares the blame, but the team as a whole made mistakes.

Smokey Joe
09-21-2008, 11:15 PM
BF51, Tillman did make a bone head play, but to say he is the sole reason why we lost, you're crazy. Not only is Tillman one of the better DB's Chicago has ever had, he is far from the main reason why we lost.

Bearsfan123
09-22-2008, 12:23 AM
i think a couple of people flipped their lid. Did Orton get us down early? Yes. Did he come back in the second half and with help get the lead, yes. Again like last week, the Orton bashing is over the top, but at this point im wondering if we Chicago fans just have something in us that just prevents us from being objective on the QB position. Because from every person I talk to, its either leave Orton in and he'll turn out to be good, or dear god oh no take him, out, throw Rex back in there hes a better playmaker. My observations will basically be limited to the second half because I was at work and didnt get a chance to watch too much of the first half. (although I intend to do so since I dvred it)

-Tommie Harris and Brian Urlacher look like "just regular players" out there. They dont seem to be their dominant selves at all. It worries me greatly. Especially Tommie, due to the necessity of the position he plays.

-Tillman and Vasher both made some great plays, but I found their coverage to be very lacking. A step behind and a step slow. I give them credit though, their tackling seemed pretty good. Nothing jumped out anyway.

-Kevin Payne seems to be coming along nicely. He made some nice plays, he missed a tackle or two, but really seemed to make the smart play.

-Where were the sacks? Brian Griese is a statue, he should have been blasted, instead he never was sacked. That needs to be improved if we are to have a mental edge.

-O-line play was average today(above average for us). Some good plays, some bad plays. Kinda surprised, Garza played pretty well in the second half.

-Forte is the man. We already knew this but it definately is nice to have a great RB in the backfield again. Besides the one dropped td he played amazingly well. BUT

-Despite Forte's amazingness, it is a two back league, he needs to be spelled more if he is to survive the season. KJ should be getting more plays than he is. He is a tough strong runner, use him.

-2nd half adjustments by Ron Turner seemed half-way decent. The offense moved the ball, and scored some points. Turner actually was kind of aggressive. Shocking.

-Adjustments needed to be made on the defensive side of the ball and they never came. Griese picked us apart, but Peyton Manning couldn't? Are you kidding me? That should not have happened.

-Brandon Lloyd can make some great plays. Rashied Davis should be a slot receiver. No one else is worth mentioning.

-Greg Olsen needs to step up. If he doesnt we wont be winning anytime soon. He is supposed to be a game breaker. He disappointed me today. I hope he bounces back next week. (Tight ends still need to learn how to block!)

-Oh and Orton has fire. He took that lick by Ruud and got up pissed about not making that 3rd down. Grossman would have been crying that he got hit. Orton has some competitive spirit.

bearsfan_51
09-22-2008, 01:47 AM
BF51, Tillman did make a bone head play, but to say he is the sole reason why we lost, you're crazy. Not only is Tillman one of the better DB's Chicago has ever had, he is far from the main reason why we lost.
I'm not saying he's the only reason we lost, I'm saying that if he didn't make the play we would have won. The fact that it was so easily avoidable is why he should be blamed for the loss.

Gay Ork Wang
09-22-2008, 01:51 AM
I'm not saying he's the only reason we lost, I'm saying that if he didn't make the play we would have won. The fact that it was so easily avoidable is why he should be blamed for the loss.
There are a couple of those plays though. I just dont get how u can blame him that much. What was he supposed to do, just look at Trueblood while he slaps Ogunleye?

bearsfan_51
09-22-2008, 01:58 AM
There are a couple of those plays though. I just dont get how u can blame him that much. What was he supposed to do, just look at Trueblood while he slaps Ogunleye?

Yes, that is exactly what he's supposed to do. There were 19 other players on the field that did nothing, stop making excuses for dumbass moves that cost us games.

This compares to Dwayne Rudd throwing his helmet after the Browns-Chiefs game a few years back. It's a level of stupidity that is just totally unacceptable for a winning football team.

Gay Ork Wang
09-22-2008, 02:01 AM
There were about 10 people in that pile that were throwing punches and shoving each other, Tillman got caught, its not like he was the only one to do something

bearfan
09-22-2008, 07:39 AM
But he was the one to get caught. When you're making the money he does, you dont make stupid mistakes like that.

Smokey Joe
09-22-2008, 07:59 AM
I'm not saying he's the only reason we lost, I'm saying that if he didn't make the play we would have won. The fact that it was so easily avoidable is why he should be blamed for the loss.
It's also easy to catch a pass layed perfectly into your hands...

Bearsfan123
09-22-2008, 09:17 AM
Yes, that is exactly what he's supposed to do. There were 19 other players on the field that did nothing, stop making excuses for dumbass moves that cost us games.

This compares to Dwayne Rudd throwing his helmet after the Browns-Chiefs game a few years back. It's a level of stupidity that is just totally unacceptable for a winning football team.

No you are flat out wrong. There were about 12 other players that did nothing. That scrum was about 7 players.

If you want to put it that way though, than Ogunleye is stupid as hell for hitting back, hell everyone in that pile, Tommie Harris, I think Briggs was in there. Just put it all on them, cuz they were in that scuffle too, and that is "totally unacceptable". *Rolls eyes* Get off your high horse and take a breath, it was one game. We still have thirteen left I believe. The season is not over. Chill out.

awfullyquiet
09-22-2008, 12:03 PM
But he was the one to get caught. When you're making the money he does, you dont make stupid mistakes like that.

If he wouldn't have gotten on the pile, the bears COULD have won.

bearsfan_51
09-22-2008, 01:27 PM
One player threw a punch that I saw, there's a difference between pulling people off or pushing people away and throwing a punch at someone's face.

bearsfan_51
09-22-2008, 01:31 PM
No you are flat out wrong. There were about 12 other players that did nothing. That scrum was about 7 players.

If you want to put it that way though, than Ogunleye is stupid as hell for hitting back, hell everyone in that pile, Tommie Harris, I think Briggs was in there. Just put it all on them, cuz they were in that scuffle too, and that is "totally unacceptable". *Rolls eyes* Get off your high horse and take a breath, it was one game. We still have thirteen left I believe. The season is not over. Chill out.
High horse? What the **** are you talking about? I'm not asking Tillman to break down quantum theory, I'm asking him to not be a complete dumbass.

The "there's 13 games left" argument is trash too. Why even try in the first place then? There's always another chance to **** it up.

The season probably is over actually. These type of mistakes (and no, Tillman isn't singular in this instance), have already cost us two games. We can only play the Lions so many times.

bearsfan_51
09-22-2008, 01:40 PM
It's also easy to catch a pass layed perfectly into your hands...

It is, but that's a human error. It's just like the Olson thing, even though him fumbling twice was obviously very important to us losing last week, it's not as if he handed the ball to the Panthers in the same way Tillman practically handed the game to the Bucs. Nobody fumbles on purpose, nobody drops a catch on purpose, but Tillman purposefully made the choice to run well across the field and intervene himself in a struggle, drawing a very obvious flag.

awfullyquiet
09-22-2008, 02:39 PM
It is, but that's a human error. It's just like the Olson thing, even though him fumbling twice was obviously very important to us losing last week, it's not as if he handed the ball to the Panthers in the same way Tillman practically handed the game to the Bucs. Nobody fumbles on purpose, nobody drops a catch on purpose, but Tillman purposefully made the choice to run well across the field and intervene himself in a struggle, drawing a very obvious flag.

BF. It's not like the bears would have won if that happened. It's a possibility they wouldn't have. The bears had an opportunity to stop them on the next set of downs and they didn't.

I think you think it's a foregone conclusion (after you bitched about the offense), that the bears would have scored even after Robbie Gould missed a 49 yarder to the same goal? Yes, the tillman thing didn't help. But, it's not like the game was over after that happened.

sweetness34
09-22-2008, 03:05 PM
Part of me understands Tillman backing up his teammate when he saw what happened. I had a teammate get elbowed in the face on purpose and I was red carded for shoving the guy down to the ground.

When you see that happen to not just a teammate, but a close friend instincts take over and you defend them. Now Tillman's was a little different because he ran about 20 yards to get into the scrum, mine happened about 5 feet away from me. Would I do what I did again? No question because my teammate was cheapshotted, didn't have a chance to defend himself. Fighting is always my last resort when confrontations happen but I'm not about to let that happen to a close friend of mine. We ended up losing the game in overtime (ironic?) because we were down a man, but it was great to know that my teammates didn't blame me for the loss. They knew why I did it and respected the fact that I stood up for a teammate. Did I feel guilty? Hell yes. I pretty much made my team lose, and I was the only one who got involved in the altercation.

Does it make what Tillman did right? No. Did he "cost us the game?" No. He cost us very good field position, and with the inconsistency of our offense yesterday we could have very easily went 3 and out and punted. He cost us a chance to get the ball back in very good territory. Should Trueblood have been penalized? Hell yes, which is why I wish they would review those types of things like they do in the NBA. The replay guys would have easily seen the punch thrown by Trueblood and most likely would have ejected him and offset the personal foul penalties.

The fact is we didn't play smart all game long. We didn't execute on a consistent basis either. Orton had plays in the first half that he let pass with bad throws and turnovers. We got no pressure on Griese at all. Gould missed the field goal. Our OL could not prevent pressure on Orton.

What Tillman did was a factor in why we lost but it wasn't the sole reason. Sure it was a big play because of when it happened in the game and I think that he has to be held accountable for his actions. But at the same point he did not lose us that game, the entire team did from the offense, to special teams, to the defense, to the coaching staff, to the turnovers, to the penalties.

sweetness34
09-22-2008, 03:09 PM
We play like we did against Indy and teams will have a tough time beating us this year, we play like we did the last two weeks and we will have a much worse record than what I predicted (9-7).

This team is capable of doing some good things this year. We've all seen it. But it can't be in flashes anymore, we need 4 quarters of solid football. If Orton can play like he did in the 2nd Half, if Forte keeps running like he has, if the defense gets the turnovers they have gotten, and if our ST's keep playing at a high level I like our chances. It's a lot of "ifs" but there is time to right the ship. And with Westbrook possibly out next week as well as McNabb a tad bit gimpy, here's out chance to get back into he thick of things. If we lose next week it's an uphill climb the rest of the way. I'll say that it's a must win game on Sunday Night, we have to win.

regoob2
09-22-2008, 03:09 PM
I was really pissed after this game also but I felt after our 1st 3 games we would probably be 1-2. Can you blame Tillman? of course you can it was a bone head move but in the heat of the moment its really tough to not participate. The thing that I saw or actually didnt see was a pass rush. When our D was elite we we're able to get after the QB with our front 4. All in all it was a bad loss and we should've won but **** happens. Good teams find a way to win games and bad teams find a way to lose games. We're not a great team.

Smokey Joe
09-22-2008, 09:11 PM
It is, but that's a human error. It's just like the Olson thing, even though him fumbling twice was obviously very important to us losing last week, it's not as if he handed the ball to the Panthers in the same way Tillman practically handed the game to the Bucs. Nobody fumbles on purpose, nobody drops a catch on purpose, but Tillman purposefully made the choice to run well across the field and intervene himself in a struggle, drawing a very obvious flag.
So getting pissed when you see your teammate getting cheap shotted and doing something stupid in the heat of the moment is what type of error?

Lets face it, there were many mistakes, and any way you put them, there is plenty of blame to go around, and not one person should be singled out.

awfullyquiet
09-23-2008, 01:10 AM
The thing that bothers me, statistically, Orton should be doing way better than he is... He's got a running game (where Grossman didn't last year)...

I don't know. I'm almost dreaming of a day to see grossman play with a real running back again. Probably won't ever happen.

Smokey Joe
09-23-2008, 07:26 AM
I'm almost dreaming of the day when Grossman will never be brought up as a viable option for Bears QB ever again.

bearfan
09-23-2008, 09:37 PM
The thing that bothers me, statistically, Orton should be doing way better than he is... He's got a running game (where Grossman didn't last year)...

I don't know. I'm almost dreaming of a day to see grossman play with a real running back again. Probably won't ever happen.

See though, when Orton came in last year his 3 games we had more ypg rushing. I think that says more about how Turner uses each QB. Grossman is an attacker, high risk high reward. Turner uses him like that. Orton isnt Grossman, so Turner uses him opposite than he would Grossman lol

awfullyquiet
09-23-2008, 10:58 PM
See though, when Orton came in last year his 3 games we had more ypg rushing. I think that says more about how Turner uses each QB. Grossman is an attacker, high risk high reward. Turner uses him like that. Orton isnt Grossman, so Turner uses him opposite than he would Grossman lol

I think turner doesn't know ****.

At all.

bearsfan_51
09-23-2008, 11:31 PM
Even when Grossman had a good running game (Thomas Jones) and an offensive line (before Kruetz and Tait were over the hill), he still pretty much sucked.

Orton might not be great, but honestly I think he's playing better than Grossman ever did, outside of that stretch of games where he threw bombs all over ****** defenses.

bearsfan_51
09-23-2008, 11:31 PM
I think turner doesn't know ****.

At all.

He did make the playoffs with Steve Walsh and Lewis Tillman. That's gotta count for something.

BeerBaron
09-28-2008, 09:59 AM
Over/under 0 points for our offense today? lol.....

I have a bad feeling about this game

dabears10
09-28-2008, 11:51 AM
I'll take the over. We have get one turnover inside the 30 and get a field goal.

sweetness34
09-28-2008, 11:51 AM
It's all going to hinge on Orton's ability to move the football. We aren't going to stop Philly, therefore we need to put up points.

We don't turn the ball over and Orton is effective in the passing game, we win. If they take away the passing game from us it's going to get ugly. He has to stretch the field somehow.

bearsfan_51
09-28-2008, 12:38 PM
I'm still pissed about the Bucs game....