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Bruce
09-08-2008, 11:39 AM
When the defense forced a punt three plays [after Young threw the interception] and the offense returned to the field, Young was AWOL.

That’s when things grew frantic. It’s hard to run a play without a quarterback.

“I came on the field and 10 wasn’t in the huddle,” said center Kevin Mawae. “I didn’t know what the situation was.”

Fisher then made a beeline to Young, standing several yards away. [...] From the outside looking in, Fisher seemed to all but throw Young back onto the field. http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/the_sporting_blog/entry/view/11841/vince_young_is_clairvoyant,_out_with_torn_mcl

Smooth Criminal
09-08-2008, 11:41 AM
This after reports that he wanted to "retire" after his rookie year. Young isnt mentally ready for the NFL.

Prince 561
09-08-2008, 11:42 AM
I'm not sure what to think of this kid. On one hand, in college, you couldn't ask for a guy with more of that "it" factor. In the pros, he seems overwhelmed and lets pressure get to him.

CJSchneider
09-08-2008, 11:46 AM
Same thing happened to Ricky Williams, he just lost the desire to play. Although I don't think that Young has the same problem Williams did, which was an even greater desire to smoke weed.

Prince 561
09-08-2008, 11:47 AM
Same thing happened to Ricky Williams, he just lost the desire to play. Although I don't think that Young has the same problem Williams did, which was an even greater desire to smoke weed.

I don't think Williams lost the desire to play as much as he lost the ability to manage his mental condition. He needed to be out of the spotlight and couldn't handle the pressure of being the face of a franchise.

Geo
09-08-2008, 11:55 AM
The biggest thing with Ricky was that Wannstache and the Dolphins ran him into the ground. To the point where he didn't want to play anymore and feared debilitating condition some years down the line, as in the case with Earl Campbell who Ricky became very familiar with since college.

CJSchneider
09-08-2008, 11:55 AM
I'm at school right now and the web-filters block many of the sites I want to reference, but if I'm not mistaken, I distinctly remember Williams saying he had "lost his desire to play." That loss of desire may stem from not being able to handle pressure, but I could swear I remember Williams himself using those exact words.

Edit - it won't let me to this site -
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=15237107

yodabear
09-08-2008, 11:56 AM
If true, Vince Young would be a good fit on the St. Louis Rams.

CC.SD
09-08-2008, 12:04 PM
VY>>>>>WR?

Prince 561
09-08-2008, 12:25 PM
I'm at school right now and the web-filters block many of the sites I want to reference, but if I'm not mistaken, I distinctly remember Williams saying he had "lost his desire to play." That loss of desire may stem from not being able to handle pressure, but I could swear I remember Williams himself using those exact words.

Edit - it won't let me to this site -
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=15237107

Ya, it was obviously a factor but I can't help but believe it was his mental condition that contributed the most. He was in about the worst situation he could be in with that condition.

LonghornsLegend
09-08-2008, 12:28 PM
If true, Vince Young would be a good fit on the St. Louis Rams.

LMAO...It is disappointing to see him out there struggling the way he has, and he never came across as a "quitter" in College, hell leadership was one of his best qualities...But at some point you have got to produce in the field, and Collins moves that offense alot better, the writing is on the wall for quite a few QB's this year.

Prince 561
09-08-2008, 12:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bLlzaLdO1g

MetSox17
09-08-2008, 12:50 PM
I don't think Williams lost the desire to play as much as he lost the ability to manage his mental condition. He needed to be out of the spotlight and couldn't handle the pressure of being the face of a franchise.

Really? His mental condition? And what condition would that be, since you're VERY credible to make that assumption, right?

Ricky Williams doesn't have a mental condition. If not giving a crap about what people want you to do and say is a mental condition, then i guess he is sick.

He didn't want to play anymore. He's never had the passion for football that some do. He's just one of those guys that always played because people told him he was good at it. How else would you explain leaving to India in the prime of his career to do yoga and meditation? Damn you're a _____.

Prince 561
09-08-2008, 12:56 PM
Really? His mental condition? And what condition would that be, since you're VERY credible to make that assumption, right?

Ricky Williams doesn't have a mental condition. If not giving a crap about what people want you to do and say is a mental condition, then i guess he is sick.

He didn't want to play anymore. He's never had the passion for football that some do. He's just one of those guys that always played because people told him he was good at it. How else would you explain leaving to India in the prime of his career to do yoga and meditation? Damn you're a _____.

He was diagnosed with social anxiety disorder. The guy did interviews with his helmet on for awhile. He also has a legal prescription in California for medical marijuana. One of the reasons he retired was because of the embarassment of using marijuana to help control his disorder.

But hey, he's just one of those lazy potheads...

umphrey
09-08-2008, 12:58 PM
I think the situation is different because as a quarterback VY doesn't have to run into multiple 300+ pounders 30 times a week plus practice. Maybe he just doesn't care, meaning he'll bounce around the league as a mediocre quarterback and be on the injury report a lot, if he doesn't turn it around. Or, like Ricky, he'll leave the NFL or end up 3rd string, realize his life is on a timer and really apply himself giving himself a successful second half of a career.

MetSox17
09-08-2008, 01:05 PM
He was diagnosed with social anxiety disorder. The guy did interviews with his helmet on for awhile. He also has a legal prescription in California for medical marijuana. One of the reasons he retired was because of the embarassment of using marijuana to help control his disorder.

But hey, he's just one of those lazy potheads...

Awesome, you read the wikipedia page too!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Williams

umphrey
09-08-2008, 01:11 PM
We will never know the full story on what happened to Ricky Williams. Marijuana is known to make many psychological disorders worse, especially an anxiety disorder. In California anyone who wants one gets a script for medical pot. There are doctors that have a rapport of never once turning away a patient asking for medical marijuana. Food for thought...

Twiddler
09-08-2008, 01:34 PM
Is it really so surprising that not EVERY SINGLE player in the NFL truly loves the game for what its worth? Many of them were probably pushed along because of their obvious talent for it. Playing in the NFL does not mean that a player has a great passion for the game. They are human after all.

Babylon
09-08-2008, 01:50 PM
Is the fact that he's out 2-4 weeks with a knee injury totally irrelevant to this conversation?

Burns336
09-08-2008, 02:00 PM
I've been saying for awhile that he sucks and is a huge bust, but all the VY apologists on here want to continue to make excuses for his pathetic QB skills.

Maybe we SHOULD consider the wonderlic test, given vince young knows how to run 3 plays...

Geo
09-08-2008, 02:10 PM
Is the fact that he's out 2-4 weeks with a knee injury totally irrelevant to this conversation?
I'm wondering if that's a bad thing or a good thing for the Titans.

D-Unit
09-08-2008, 02:39 PM
Right now the Jags wish VY quit before he beat them. Why are people bashing Young? He single handedly carries a very bad Titans team. His receivers have sucked every year he's been there. ...and that OL is average at best. I think he finally has a helper this year in Chris Johnson.

bernbabybern820
09-08-2008, 02:40 PM
Is it really so surprising that not EVERY SINGLE player in the NFL truly loves the game for what its worth? Many of them were probably pushed along because of their obvious talent for it. Playing in the NFL does not mean that a player has a great passion for the game. They are human after all.

Curtis my favorite Martin! Amazing work ethic but wasn't a huge football fan.

bigbluedefense
09-08-2008, 02:46 PM
Right now the Jags wish VY quit before he beat them. Why are people bashing Young? He single handedly carries a very bad Titans team. His receivers have sucked every year he's been there. ...and that OL is average at best. I think he finally has a helper this year in Chris Johnson.

thats actually a very good Titans team. their oline is one of the best in the league, their run game is incredible, they have great TEs, they have a great defense.

the only thing that sucks on them is the pass game, which is largely Young's fault. I still have faith in him though, although I thought he would be a bust before he came out, he showed me an "it" factor to him in the NFL that makes you think he'll eventually turn it around.

D-Unit
09-08-2008, 03:13 PM
thats actually a very good Titans team. their oline is one of the best in the league, their run game is incredible, they have great TEs, they have a great defense.

the only thing that sucks on them is the pass game, which is largely Young's fault. I still have faith in him though, although I thought he would be a bust before he came out, he showed me an "it" factor to him in the NFL that makes you think he'll eventually turn it around.
Young isn't a great passer, but his receivers have to take some of the blame too. Great TEs? Or great usage of TEs by Young? Is Bo Scaife really a Great TE? I can't say Crumpler played great for them yesterday and he hasn't played great in quite a while. But I will say this, that their OL plays good together behind Mawae's leadership and that Roos is terribly underrated around the league... I'll even say that Jake Scott is a decent OG. But one of the best in the league? Certainly not on paper. After 1 game, I think paper is all we can call legit at this point. We'll see though. Young's elusiveness in the pocket surely helps them statistically against sacks allowed. Incredible run game? Sure, I like it a lot more with Chris Johnson now in the mix. But people are judging VY for what he hasn't done in the league yet and 1 game into the season, he's already a bust again. Let's see what he can do with some help in Johnson. Let's wonder what he could do with real WR weapons.

Their Defense is legit and Haynesworth is a beast, but you gotta give credit to DC Jim Schwartz because again.. on paper they just aren't the most intimidating bunch.

bigbluedefense
09-08-2008, 03:16 PM
Young isn't a great passer, but his receivers have to take some of the blame too. Great TEs? Or great usage of TEs by Young? Is Bo Scaife really a Great TE? I can't say Crumpler played great for them yesterday and he hasn't played great in quite a while. But I will say this, that their OL plays good together behind Mawae's leadership and that Roos is terribly underrated around the league... I'll even say that Jake Scott is a decent OG. But one of the best in the league? Certainly not on paper. After 1 game, I think paper is all we can call legit at this point. We'll see though. Young's elusiveness in the pocket surely helps them statistically against sacks allowed. Incredible run game? Sure, I like it a lot more with Chris Johnson now in the mix. But people are judging VY for what he hasn't done in the league yet and 1 game into the season, he's already a bust again. Let's see what he can do with some help in Johnson. Let's wonder what he could do with real WR weapons.

Their Defense is legit and Haynesworth is a beast, but you gotta give credit to DC Jim Schwartz because again.. on paper they just aren't the most intimidating bunch.

paper doesn't win D. teams do. I had the Titans as the 3rd best oline in the league last year.

Pats had the best oline in the league last year, and they don't have a great paper lineup either.

thats just a good team. they don't have superstars, theyre just a good team, top to bottom. As for the WRs, we've heard this story before with Vick. You don't know what you have at WR until you have a qb who can throw it to em. Young just isn't a good qb right now.

The only thing Im holding onto is his "it". The guy has it. But my early beliefs of him being a bust are becoming more and more true as the days go by. However, we can't give up on him yet. He needs more time. Give him at least one more year after this one.

MetSox17
09-08-2008, 03:32 PM
paper doesn't win D. teams do. I had the Titans as the 3rd best oline in the league last year.

Pats had the best oline in the league last year, and they don't have a great paper lineup either.

thats just a good team. they don't have superstars, theyre just a good team, top to bottom. As for the WRs, we've heard this story before with Vick. You don't know what you have at WR until you have a qb who can throw it to em. Young just isn't a good qb right now.

The only thing Im holding onto is his "it". The guy has it. But my early beliefs of him being a bust are becoming more and more true as the days go by. However, we can't give up on him yet. He needs more time. Give him at least one more year after this one.

Just curious as to who was the other o-line you had in your top three. I have a hard time seeing how the Titans line was better than the Chargers, Cowboys and Browns.

D-Unit
09-08-2008, 03:38 PM
paper doesn't win D. teams do. I had the Titans as the 3rd best oline in the league last year.

Pats had the best oline in the league last year, and they don't have a great paper lineup either.

thats just a good team. they don't have superstars, theyre just a good team, top to bottom. As for the WRs, we've heard this story before with Vick. You don't know what you have at WR until you have a qb who can throw it to em. Young just isn't a good qb right now.

The only thing Im holding onto is his "it". The guy has it. But my early beliefs of him being a bust are becoming more and more true as the days go by. However, we can't give up on him yet. He needs more time. Give him at least one more year after this one.
This is a funny twist of events now that I look back at how I thought things before. On draft day, I thought the Titans were stupid for drafting Young over Leinart. Coaching staff at the time (Fischer and Chow, both USC guys) wanted Leinart and Ownership wanted Young. If Leinart was the Titans QB today, I wonder if things for the Titans would've been in better or worse shape? I dunno. Would we'd be saying Gage, Roydell (I know he's been cut) and McCareins are better WRs than we think of them now? I doubt that either. I can see your point about QBs making WRs, but I think it goes both ways. If you swap spots with Young and Romo, Brady, Peyton, etc... wouldn't he be a better QB in those situations? Of course, because on paper, he has a better surrounding cast. Not saying he'd be as good as Romo, Brady, Peyton, but seriously, Vince is 1 great WR away from doing great things.

bigbluedefense
09-08-2008, 03:38 PM
Just curious as to who was the other o-line you had in your top three. I have a hard time seeing how the Titans line was better than the Chargers, Cowboys and Browns.

My rankings last year:

1. Pats
2. Cowboys
3. Titans
4. Browns
5. Giants


Chargers oline was shakey last year for a lot of the year. Remember, this was last year's rankings. The Chargers oline didn't play too well until halfway through the season.

bigbluedefense
09-08-2008, 03:39 PM
This is a funny twist of events now that I look back at how I thought things before. On draft day, I thought the Titans were stupid for drafting Young over Leinart. Coaching staff at the time (Fischer and Chow, both USC guys) wanted Leinart and Ownership wanted Young. If Leinart was the Titans QB today, I wonder if things for the Titans would've been in better or worse shape? I dunno. Would we'd be saying Gage, Roydell (I know he's been cut) and McCareins are better WRs than we think of them now? I doubt that either. I can see your point about QBs making WRs, but I think it goes both ways. If you swap spots with Young and Romo, Brady, Peyton, etc... wouldn't he be a better QB in those situations? Of course, because on paper, he has a better surrounding cast. Not saying he'd be as good as Romo, Brady, Peyton, but seriously, Vince is 1 great WR away from doing great things.

could be. but my main point is that most of their passing woes is Young's fault. his WRs aren't helping him much, but he's not helping them either.

Addict
09-08-2008, 03:42 PM
This is a funny twist of events now that I look back at how I thought things before. On draft day, I thought the Titans were stupid for drafting Young over Leinart. Coaching staff at the time (Fischer and Chow, both USC guys) wanted Leinart and Ownership wanted Young. If Leinart was the Titans QB today, I wonder if things for the Titans would've been in better or worse shape? I dunno. Would we'd be saying Gage, Roydell (I know he's been cut) and McCareins are better WRs than we think of them now? I doubt that either. I can see your point about QBs making WRs, but I think it goes both ways. If you swap spots with Young and Romo, Brady, Peyton, etc... wouldn't he be a better QB in those situations? Of course, because on paper, he has a better surrounding cast. Not saying he'd be as good as Romo, Brady, Peyton, but seriously, Vince is 1 great WR away from doing great things.

Leinart may actually have done better to this point for the Titans, simply because he knows Norm Chow so well.

D-Unit
09-08-2008, 03:46 PM
Leinart may actually have done better to this point for the Titans, simply because he knows Norm Chow so well.
And I think Norm would've still been there. I think losing him was a bad thing, but that's just me.

D-Unit
09-08-2008, 03:47 PM
could be. but my main point is that most of their passing woes is Young's fault. his WRs aren't helping him much, but he's not helping them either.
Yeah, both are to blame. But I think the Titans would help kill 2 birds with 1 stone by getting a guy like Roy Williams or Anquan Boldin.

bigbluedefense
09-08-2008, 03:47 PM
And I think Norm would've still been there. I think losing him was a bad thing, but that's just me.

scapegoat.

its BS that Chow takes the fall. i was hoping he'd get a HC job too. would be great to see an Asian HC in this league, it would be good for the league.

Prince 561
09-08-2008, 03:49 PM
Awesome, you read the wikipedia page too!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Williams

Yup, and if you followed his career AT ALL you would know this. At least you're not pretending to be right anymore though.

MetSox17
09-08-2008, 03:52 PM
Yup, and if you followed his career AT ALL you would know this. At least you're not pretending to be right anymore though.

Right, and you have, i suppose? Which is why you're saying that his mind is what didn't allow him to play football. He doesn't love football. That's the bottom line. It's a job to him, which is why he did lose the desire to play. The argument all along.

CC.SD
09-08-2008, 03:56 PM
My rankings last year:

1. Pats
2. Cowboys
3. Titans
4. Browns
5. Giants


Chargers oline was shakey last year for a lot of the year. Remember, this was last year's rankings. The Chargers oline didn't play too well until halfway through the season.

It's true; Marcus McNeill went through a major sophomore slump in particular, and with Hardwick battling some nagging injuries, Shane Olivea hooked on drugs/sucking/doing drugs because he sucked so bad, they were as a group a major culprit in our slow start.

Once they started keeping PR upright, that's when our winning streak started. They were nowhere near top 5 on the season though. This year? Who knows. McNeill is back this week though.

Prince 561
09-08-2008, 04:00 PM
Right, and you have, i suppose? Which is why you're saying that his mind is what didn't allow him to play football. He doesn't love football. That's the bottom line. It's a job to him, which is why he did lose the desire to play. The argument all along.

I have followed Williams since his first year at Texas, as have many football fans considering he was a highly touted prospect. Obviously you have not because his mental condition has been highly publicized.

This is what you said:

Ricky Williams doesn't have a mental condition. If not giving a crap about what people want you to do and say is a mental condition, then i guess he is sick.

That's 100% wrong. Admit it and move on.

MetSox17
09-08-2008, 04:04 PM
I have followed Williams since his first year at Texas, as have many football fans considering he was a highly touted prospect. Obviously you have not because his mental condition has been highly publicized.

This is what you said:



That's 100% wrong. Admit it and move on.

Your original post said that "he didn't lose the desire to play football" which was my argument all along as well. Check my first post. I didn't think he had a clinically diagnosed condition, and i was shown evidence otherwise. Fine, i get it. In my opinion, that's not why he quit football.

Burns336
09-08-2008, 04:07 PM
Vince Young would suck no matter what WR's he has. I saw him throw plenty of ****** balls to guys who were wide open yesterday. Plenty of over and under throws, never puts it on the money, puts way too much air under his deeper throws.

Kerry Collins doesn't seem to have problems moving the ball with the same set of receivers and he isn't even that good.

This reminds me of Julius Jones complaining about not being able to get it done in Dallas because of any reason other than himself. Yet somehow Barber succeeds with all the same tools.

Now, I know Vince hasn't come out and said "the titans haven't put me in a position to win" but all the VY apologists come out and say "Oh VY has no receivers, he carries his team, blah blah"

********. The titan defense and run game carry that team.

I never thought Vick was that good of a QB, but he is miles ahead of VY as far as being a passer. VY is junk, he should be converted to TE... if he doesn't quit.

BrownsTown
09-08-2008, 04:09 PM
Sure makes a good excuse for why he sucks as a QB.

Prince 561
09-08-2008, 04:09 PM
Your original post said that "he didn't lose the desire to play football" which was my argument all along as well. Check my first post. I didn't think he had a clinically diagnosed condition, and i was shown evidence otherwise. Fine, i get it. In my opinion, that's not why he quit football.

Well frankly, your opinion is no more valuable than mine. You knew LESS than me about the situation yet decided to attack me and throw some insults at me.

Sometimes it's better to look into a situation some before making outlandish statements with no basis of fact and attacking others. Just something I've noticed with a few of your posts...

Really? His mental condition? And what condition would that be, since you're VERY credible to make that assumption, right?

Ricky Williams doesn't have a mental condition. If not giving a crap about what people want you to do and say is a mental condition, then i guess he is sick.

He didn't want to play anymore. He's never had the passion for football that some do. He's just one of those guys that always played because people told him he was good at it. How else would you explain leaving to India in the prime of his career to do yoga and meditation? Damn you're a _____.

I think he quit because the off-the-field stuff outweighed the advantages of playing for him. It's funny because football is one of the few professions where players are looked down upon for retiring. If Mark Zuckerberg decided to sell Facebook and retire as a billionaire, living on an island and just enjoying life would anybody call him out as a quitter and this and that?

LonghornsLegend
09-08-2008, 04:21 PM
I've been saying for awhile that he sucks and is a huge bust, but all the VY apologists on here want to continue to make excuses for his pathetic QB skills.

Maybe we SHOULD consider the wonderlic test, given vince young knows how to run 3 plays...

Or maybe it could be more due to the fact that he was still a very young QB, who had a good rookie season, so nobody was willing to come out and call him a bust and he sucks as soon as you were? I'm all for admitting when a guy is a bust, but I'm not willing to jump the gun on any QB's and call somebody trash before their 3rd year.


You might consider that excuses, and you may end up right, but that doesn't mean guys are making excuses because they want to wait to pass judgement.

Prince 561
09-08-2008, 04:23 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned anywhere, but Young might be out for a 2-4 weeks with a knee injury.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3574517

aNYtitan
09-08-2008, 04:31 PM
LMAO...It is disappointing to see him out there struggling the way he has, and he never came across as a "quitter" in College, hell leadership was one of his best qualities...But at some point you have got to produce in the field, and Collins moves that offense alot better, the writing is on the wall for quite a few QB's this year.
Now I understand that this comparison is a little off, but wasn't Eli Manning also considered a bit of a failure after the first couple years. No body questioned whether he is a quitter, but rather he could handle a pro team in NY. A majority of fans doubted his ability and believed he couldn't win the big one and his demeanor was not fit for NY. Now look at him. Like i said, the comparison may be a bit off, but its not that far fetched. It is still possible to adjust to the NFL, and I believe Young will do that. This has been the only level in his career where he has heard boos. I think once he comes back from this injury, he will bounce right back because this time off the field will help him learn the new system he has. I don't think there is any quit in him, because if there was, he should have done it when he was a huge underdog versus USC.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-08-2008, 04:36 PM
Vince Young, right now, is not a good quarterback. That simple. If you turn the ball over, struggle to move the team through the air, struggle to complete passes downfield, etc. you are not helping your team win. The running game and defense got that team to the playoffs last year. The year before? The run game stepped up, Kerry Collins had only a couple of weeks to learn the offense making them appear much worse, and the defense stepped it up. Vince did make plays though, but now teams have gotten used to seeing him, and he has not stepped up. He did one thing last year better than he did as a rookie: hitting the short routes. He completed nearly 11% more passes in year 2, but for only half a yard more per attempt. That isn't much help.

BrownsTown
09-08-2008, 04:38 PM
Now I understand that this comparison is a little off, but wasn't Eli Manning also considered a bit of a failure after the first couple years. No body questioned whether he is a quitter, but rather he could handle a pro team in NY. A majority of fans doubted his ability and believed he couldn't win the big one and his demeanor was not fit for NY. Now look at him. Like i said, the comparison may be a bit off, but its not that far fetched. It is still possible to adjust to the NFL, and I believe Young will do that. This has been the only level in his career where he has heard boos. I think once he comes back from this injury, he will bounce right back because this time off the field will help him learn the new system he has. I don't think there is any quit in him, because if there was, he should have done it when he was a huge underdog versus USC.

VY's First year - 12 TDs, 13 INTs
Eli's First year: 6 TDs, 9 INTs.

VYs 2nd - 9 Tds, 17 INTs
Eli's 2nd - 24 TDs, 17 INTs

The difference is Eli can...pass.

comahan
09-08-2008, 04:47 PM
The Rest of the Titans carry Vince, not the other way around. The rest of that team is excellent. Theyd be a very, very good team if they had competent quarterback play.

awfullyquiet
09-08-2008, 04:49 PM
The Rest of the Titans carry Vince, not the other way around. The rest of that team is excellent. Theyd be a very, very good team if they had competent quarterback play.

Hence why Collins will finish the season.

*gasp* That being said. The WR's need some help still.

aNYtitan
09-08-2008, 04:49 PM
VY's First year - 12 TDs, 13 INTs
Eli's First year: 6 TDs, 9 INTs.

VYs 2nd - 9 Tds, 17 INTs
Eli's 2nd - 24 TDs, 17 INTs

The difference is Eli can...pass.
But even in that 2nd year, people here in NY were furious. I was not stating numbers wise because he I could easily have told you that Eli is a better passer then Vince by miles. I can also tell you Vince is a much better runner then Eli. Eli is a pure pocket passer, Vince is a dual threat. But lets look at some other numbers that I think help

Comp % (First year)
Manning: 48.2%
Young: 51.5%

(Second year)
Manning: 52.8%
Young: 62.3%

Passing for TD's isn't really justifiable because those stats could be inflated based on your WR's talent. Lets see the Giants have Plaxico and Amani as their starters. The Titans have Justin Gage and Brandon Jones. Who has the better skill set. INT's are a relative stat, but Young has the ability to make the right reads, as the completion percentage shows

D-Unit
09-08-2008, 04:52 PM
Vince Young was on the Cover of Madden. No way will he ever be called a bust.

Vikes99ej
09-08-2008, 04:52 PM
His accuracy is still god-awful. I can't believe he's actually been on the cover of a video game, Madden none-the-less.

BrownsTown
09-08-2008, 05:52 PM
But even in that 2nd year, people here in NY were furious. I was not stating numbers wise because he I could easily have told you that Eli is a better passer then Vince by miles. I can also tell you Vince is a much better runner then Eli. Eli is a pure pocket passer, Vince is a dual threat. But lets look at some other numbers that I think help

Comp % (First year)
Manning: 48.2%
Young: 51.5%

(Second year)
Manning: 52.8%
Young: 62.3%

Passing for TD's isn't really justifiable because those stats could be inflated based on your WR's talent. Lets see the Giants have Plaxico and Amani as their starters. The Titans have Justin Gage and Brandon Jones. Who has the better skill set. INT's are a relative stat, but Young has the ability to make the right reads, as the completion percentage shows

Do you realize how many more times Eli threw? And for how many more yards? He had more or about the same (don't remember which) YPA even with the difference in completion percentage. VY can throw the ball far but when he does throw the deep passes, he doesn't throw them accurately.

D-Unit
09-08-2008, 05:56 PM
Eli has had the same the offense during his entire NFL tenure.

VY has changed offenses every year. It's no wonder he's going the Alex Smith route.

giantsfan
09-08-2008, 06:01 PM
Eli has had the same the offense during his entire NFL tenure.

You can't seriously think that's correct.

Bruce Banner
09-08-2008, 06:03 PM
You can't seriously think that's correct.

No that's about right.

Eli ALWAYS has at least one offensive player to carry the team. Whether it be Tiki or Plax.

giantsfan
09-08-2008, 06:06 PM
No that's about right.

Eli ALWAYS has at least one offensive player to carry the team. Whether it be Tiki or Plax.

And he's also had a guy who bends over and snaps him the ball every year.:rolleyes:

Bruce Banner
09-08-2008, 06:09 PM
And he's also had a guy who bends over and snaps him the ball every year.:rolleyes:

and grizzly adams had a beard.

giantsfan
09-08-2008, 06:12 PM
and grizzly adams had a beard.

I'm sorry the answer we were looking for was neck beard, grizzly adams had a neck beard.

MetSox17
09-08-2008, 07:36 PM
Was it already brought up that apparently Young told Fisher after the game that he didn't know if he wanted to do this (play football) anymore?

CC.SD
09-08-2008, 07:48 PM
Was it already brought up that apparently Young told Fisher after the game that he didn't know if he wanted to do this (play football) anymore?

Uh...Guh? Please go away Vince. Give back your damned National Championship too!

brat316
09-08-2008, 07:58 PM
He should go back to school and graduate. At least he made a crap load of money.

Bruce
09-08-2008, 08:25 PM
I wonder if he retires if he gets to keep all of his signing bonus?

OzTitan
09-08-2008, 08:25 PM
Right now the Jags wish VY quit before he beat them. Why are people bashing Young? He single handedly carries a very bad Titans team. His receivers have sucked every year he's been there. ...and that OL is average at best. I think he finally has a helper this year in Chris Johnson.

Eh? The Jaguars own VY. He was the only offense the Jags had yesterday.

ShutDwn
09-08-2008, 08:28 PM
Right now the Jags wish VY quit before he beat them. Why are people bashing Young? He single handedly carries a very bad Titans team. His receivers have sucked every year he's been there. ...and that OL is average at best. I think he finally has a helper this year in Chris Johnson.

Young had very little to do with the Titans' victory. What is it with guys like Vick and Young who are given credit for wins even though they weren't good?

Young doesn't carry the Titans at all, eleven guys on defense come before him.

OzTitan
09-08-2008, 08:40 PM
http://sports.nashvillecityblogs.com/?p=597

I feel Vince is at a crossroads now. His lack of maturity and inability to put criticism and bad plays out of his mind has always been a concern, but it reached a boiling point yesterday that seriously calls his mental toughness into question. He likes to look up to Steve McNair, but as that blog post points out, Steve was the exact opposite in this regard. He'd NEVER, EVER lose sight of his composure during a game to the point he needs to be thrown back out. As tough as McNair was physically, he was twice as tough mentally.

Vince as a passer has time to develop, but Vince as a professional is running out of time. With the retirement talk, and him going back to school instead of being 100% dedicated to his new offense being installed, one has to wonder if it isn't already too late. He's basically a 'Ryan Leaf with reporter meltdown' away from throwing it in it would seem. Clearly the guy thinks of himself to be above the common struggles of a young NFL QB and it has really gotten to him that he can't escape it.

He may be out for a few weeks, so hopefully he can use this time to adjust his focus and grow up, much like Albert Haynesworth did with his suspension in 2006. Haynesworth came back a pro bowl DT with maturity x10 because he almost lost what he loved. Hopefully this ugly sideline incident can place a mirror in front of Vince and he'll do something similar, because whether it was stomping on a player's face or quitting on your team mid way through a game you're winning, something's got to change or you'll be out of a job very quickly.

aNYtitan
09-08-2008, 08:53 PM
I think he better make a quick phone call to Steve McNair and have a sit down. McNair was the consummate professional and there never was a day that people thought he quit on his team. People, don't jump all on the bandwagon, because you are going to break it.

P.S. Vince, you have my 100% support, because I still think he will be a star

CC.SD
09-08-2008, 08:57 PM
http://sports.nashvillecityblogs.com/?p=597

I feel Vince is at a crossroads now. His lack of maturity and inability to put criticism and bad plays out of his mind has always been a concern, but it reached a boiling point yesterday that seriously calls his mental toughness into question. He likes to look up to Steve McNair, but as that blog post points out, Steve was the exact opposite in this regard. He'd NEVER, EVER lose sight of his composure during a game to the point he needs to be thrown back out. As tough as McNair was physically, he was twice as tough mentally.

Vince as a passer has time to develop, but Vince as a professional is running out of time. With the retirement talk, and him going back to school instead of being 100% dedicated to his new offense being installed, one has to wonder if it isn't already too late. He's basically a 'Ryan Leaf with reporter meltdown' away from throwing it in it would seem. Clearly the guy thinks of himself to be above the common struggles of a young NFL QB and it has really gotten to him that he can't escape it.

He may be out for a few weeks, so hopefully he can use this time to adjust his focus and grow up, much like Albert Haynesworth did with his suspension in 2006. Haynesworth came back a pro bowl DT with maturity x10 because he almost lost what he loved. Hopefully this ugly sideline incident can place a mirror in front of Vince and he'll do something similar, because whether it was stomping on a player's face or quitting on your team mid way through a game you're winning, something's got to change or you'll be out of a job very quickly.

What a little biotch.

aNYtitan
09-08-2008, 09:08 PM
Do you realize how many more times Eli threw? And for how many more yards? He had more or about the same (don't remember which) YPA even with the difference in completion percentage. VY can throw the ball far but when he does throw the deep passes, he doesn't throw them accurately.
But thats another difference. Manning has more passing attempts because he is a drop back passer. All he does is either hand it off or throw it. He ran the ball 35 times in those first two seasons. Young ran it 176 times in his first two seasons. Just because you throw the ball more it doesn't mean you should have less of a completion percentage. You might be susceptible to less, but if you are a great QB you don't have completion percentages near the 50% mark.

Also, when Manning stepped into the Giants offense, he had a pretty well established offense around him. A top five RB and a pretty solid receiving core. Young's rookie season, he had a rookie RB starting and a bad receiving core. Also, Manning wasn't the centerpiece of the offense the instant he stepped into the lineup.

BrownsTown
09-08-2008, 09:30 PM
But thats another difference. Manning has more passing attempts because he is a drop back passer. All he does is either hand it off or throw it. He ran the ball 35 times in those first two seasons. Young ran it 176 times in his first two seasons. Just because you throw the ball more it doesn't mean you should have less of a completion percentage. You might be susceptible to less, but if you are a great QB you don't have completion percentages near the 50% mark.

Also, when Manning stepped into the Giants offense, he had a pretty well established offense around him. A top five RB and a pretty solid receiving core. Young's rookie season, he had a rookie RB starting and a bad receiving core. Also, Manning wasn't the centerpiece of the offense the instant he stepped into the lineup.

There was more pressure on Eli then there was on Vince, no question. That's not really an argument. The Titans also had an OL that was better than what the Giants had at the time which makes all the difference. All this is beside the point. Eli looked decent, he had higher expectations and he didn't meet them but he wasn't bad. Vince Young has been awful. He can run, but he can't pass. That doesn't fit a QB very well.

PoopSandwich
09-08-2008, 11:18 PM
and grizzly adams had a beard.

Grizzly Adams DID have a beard.

stephenson86
09-09-2008, 08:01 AM
glad hes out, kerry collins since losing a shed load of weight has looked pretty damn good, more so than just being a sevicable back up, maybe our WR's will get the ball

OzTitan
09-09-2008, 08:40 AM
http://www.wkrn.com/global/story.asp?s=8976169

This just keeps getting stranger.

Retirement talk, going back to Texas to study in the offseason, Titans bringing in Byron Leftwich randomly, stating they were "updating their records" but not bringing in any other FA QB. Then the drama against the Jags, and now this?

Something is up with Vince Young. Why the hell would you call the police when you can't contact someone at 7:30PM? There's got to be a good reason why not being able to get in contact with him would be a concern enough to call the police. Someone on a Titans board said VY is showing symptoms of chronic depression and I'm beginning to think it's true.

Babylon
09-09-2008, 10:28 AM
Sort of off topic but how good would the Titans be with Jay Cutler?

illmatic74
09-09-2008, 10:40 AM
Leinart may actually have done better to this point for the Titans, simply because he knows Norm Chow so well. Leinart failed with Fitsgerald and Boldin

illmatic74
09-09-2008, 10:44 AM
Sort of off topic but how good would the Titans be with Jay Cutler? Super bowl contender

AlexDown
09-09-2008, 11:10 AM
This is on ESPN now...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3577597

giantsfan
09-09-2008, 11:36 AM
I hope Young can get his mind cleared and figure out if he actually wants to keep playing football, but it's nice to see Cutler by far the best QB from that class as he was my favorite of those three prospects, and if they actually get a run D i'll gladly root for the Denver Cutlers.

LonghornsLegend
09-09-2008, 12:38 PM
Sort of off topic but how good would the Titans be with Jay Cutler?

Cards would be much better with him, that offense would be near impossible to stop.

drowe
09-09-2008, 02:40 PM
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/26609083/

odd.

MetSox17
09-09-2008, 02:58 PM
Cards would be much better with him, that offense would be near impossible to stop.

Yeah, they'd score about 35 a game. But they'd allow 37. :/

TitanHope
09-09-2008, 03:37 PM
Vince Young leaves house - State of Emergency declared (http://www.barkingcarnival.com/doperbo/vince-young-leaves-house-state-of-national-emergency-declared)

There is no official word yet as to the the exact nature of the threat, all that we know for sure, all that we can corroborate from independent sources, is that apparently Vince Young left his premises yesterday evening without his cell phone. I reiterate, remain calm.

I'm goin to get bottled water and non-perishable food items right now...

BrownsTown
09-09-2008, 04:23 PM
You left out the part where his family said he didn't seem in a fit mental state...maybe just me but that seems kinda important.

Bruce Banner
09-09-2008, 04:31 PM
They found a gun in his glove compartment.

Menardo75
09-09-2008, 04:36 PM
Wow this whole situation gets worse everyday

CC.SD
09-09-2008, 04:41 PM
Wow this whole situation gets worse everyday

Seriously, a gun in the glove compartment? Now it's possible serious suicidal thoughts? I was prepared to buy this entire situation as media hyperbole before. This guy is more messed up than anyone thought, that much is definitely coming out.

I still think he'll be back playing after this injury.

BrownsTown
09-09-2008, 04:46 PM
For what it's worth, it was unloaded. So don't think it was meant for suicide or anything.

Bruce
09-09-2008, 04:48 PM
They found a gun in his glove compartment.A lot of people have guns in their glove compartments.

BTW Mack Brown must baby those guys at UT.

Vince, Cedric, Rickey, Roy (attitude)

TitanHope
09-09-2008, 04:48 PM
On my birthday this past year, I went to my friends house thinking me, her, and bunch of other people would go to the movies to celebrate. We didn't, and isntead drama ensued between other parties not involving myself. So I walked out without telling anyone, turned off my phone, and drove to the next county. It was my way of dealing with things. My friends parents contacted my parents and they couldn't contact me. Instead, they just waited til I was prepared to talk to someone.

Just because someone called the cops doesn't make it a big deal. Not everyone lives in a perfect world where police lights either means they were speeding or are viewing something from afar. Family members over-react more times than friends or colleagues. Odds are he was just frustrated with himself and the situation and wanted to get away. I don't fault him one bit.

Odds are the gun is for protection - It was in the glovebox. If it was laying in the seat next to him and loaded, then I'd worry. He's a famous athletes, and thus, are targets for criminals. Wasn't it just recently that athletes had been robbed/homes invaded?

Bruce Banner
09-09-2008, 04:51 PM
Who said the gun was for anything other than protection?

Carry on.

TitanHope
09-09-2008, 05:00 PM
This is "dee-de-dee." Many celebrities turn to drugs and alcohol to deal with their issues. Vince Young goes for a ******* joy ride and doesn't bring his cell phone, and all of the sudden he's crazy! Call the police and lock your doors lest VY pistol whips ya! Although he'd probably whip side armed and miss you by a few inches, but that's not the point! He's so entranced by his psychosis that he'll go after bushes and small animals. Even PacMan will be like, "That dude has problems breh..." Call the papers and alert the masses! Let 'em know the dam has broken and the sky is falling while you're at it too!

Bruce Banner
09-09-2008, 05:02 PM
This is "dee-de-dee." Many celebrities turn to drugs and alcohol to deal with their issues. Vince Young goes for a ******* joy ride and doesn't bring his cell phone, and all of the sudden he's crazy! Call the police and lock your doors lest VY pistol whips ya! Although he'd probably whip side armed and miss you by a few inches, but that's not the point! He's so entranced by his psychosis that he'll go after bushes and small animals. Even PacMan will be like, "That dude has problems breh..." Call the papers and alert the masses! Let 'em know the dam has broken and the sky is falling while you're at it too!

VY sucks and will probably be a bust. You should hope he quits.

(This should start a nice convo)

Turtlepower
09-09-2008, 06:29 PM
I know it has been posted before, but I love this line:

Young's absence prompts police search, but agent downplays matter (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3577597)

Later Tuesday, Young's agent told The Associated Press there was no need for concern because Young was at a friend's house watching football and eating chicken wings.

Why the hell did the journalist have to include the part about eating chicken wings?

Bruce Banner
09-09-2008, 06:31 PM
I know it has been posted before, but I love this line:

Young's absence prompts police search, but agent downplays matter (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3577597)



Why the hell did the journalist have to include the part about eating chicken wings?

He needed to put some more meat on the bones of the article.

Prince 561
09-09-2008, 06:33 PM
I know it has been posted before, but I love this line:

Young's absence prompts police search, but agent downplays matter (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3577597)



Why the hell did the journalist have to include the part about eating chicken wings?

:rolleyes:

http://i37.tinypic.com/14ikgvs.jpg

MetSox17
09-09-2008, 06:33 PM
He needed to put some more meat on the bones of the article.

*double taps snare and crashes the cymbal*


Edit - Good luck with the backlash from that one. (^^^)

awfullyquiet
09-09-2008, 06:33 PM
Vince Young leaves house - State of Emergency declared (http://www.barkingcarnival.com/doperbo/vince-young-leaves-house-state-of-national-emergency-declared)



I'm goin to get bottled water and non-perishable food items right now...

get the non-potable kind. it tastes better

BlindSite
09-09-2008, 06:49 PM
From what I read Fisher couldn't get hold of him and spoke to family members who said he didn't seem right. Fisher called the police who found him at a friend's house eating wings. A search of his vehicle found an unloaded gun, which is common and legal apparently, note, there was no ammo with it.

Sounds to me like he's got a bit of LaVarr Arrington syndrome. I posted a thread about it a while ago with an Excerpt from a book I was reading where Arrignton detailed some mental issues he had with playing in the NFL talking about how he couldn't just make a tackle where he had to leap over offensive lines or he'd disappoint. If you go from being a universe beater and loved unconditionally to be being hated because you're not as dominant it can make you lose your love for the game.

Arrington never got over it, maybe Young is having trouble with the same thing.

Prince 561
09-09-2008, 06:55 PM
From what I read Fisher couldn't get hold of him and spoke to family members who said he didn't seem right. Fisher called the police who found him at a friend's house eating wings. A search of his vehicle found an unloaded gun, which is common and legal apparently, note, there was no ammo with it.

Sounds to me like he's got a bit of LaVarr Arrington syndrome. I posted a thread about it a while ago with an Excerpt from a book I was reading where Arrignton detailed some mental issues he had with playing in the NFL talking about how he couldn't just make a tackle where he had to leap over offensive lines or he'd disappoint. If you go from being a universe beater and loved unconditionally to be being hated because you're not as dominant it can make you lose your love for the game.

Arrington never got over it, maybe Young is having trouble with the same thing.

Not a bad theory. It's a long fall from the top...

smittyjs
09-09-2008, 07:37 PM
Vince Young would suck no matter what WR's he has. I saw him throw plenty of ****** balls to guys who were wide open yesterday. Plenty of over and under throws, never puts it on the money, puts way too much air under his deeper throws.

Kerry Collins doesn't seem to have problems moving the ball with the same set of receivers and he isn't even that good.

This reminds me of Julius Jones complaining about not being able to get it done in Dallas because of any reason other than himself. Yet somehow Barber succeeds with all the same tools.

Now, I know Vince hasn't come out and said "the titans haven't put me in a position to win" but all the VY apologists come out and say "Oh VY has no receivers, he carries his team, blah blah"

********. The titan defense and run game carry that team.

I never thought Vick was that good of a QB, but he is miles ahead of VY as far as being a passer. VY is junk, he should be converted to TE... if he doesn't quit.
Collins looked god awful in preseason, young didn't look much better but it didn't help that we threw the ball alot more than we would in a regular season game, collins threw to passes vs the jags, one pass was a screen big deal, and second one was a 6 yard pass to gage. Yes young wasn't great yesterday, but some was his fault and some was his wr fault. gage dropping a big thirddown play and justin mccareins getting tripped up by rashean mathis and not making the catch. he made some bad reads yesterday to.

scottyboy
09-09-2008, 07:45 PM
Kerry Collins may be the WORST QB in the NFL. no, that's not even close to an exaggeration. This drunken fool shouldn't be allowed the NFL. Shouldn't be able to be in a stadium or watch a game on TV.

******* Kerry Collins

Breaker
09-09-2008, 07:47 PM
http://images.chron.com/photos/2006/12/10/4418041/311xInlineGallery.jpg

Houston, we have a f***ing problem.











NOT.:rolleyes:

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-09-2008, 08:30 PM
http://images.chron.com/photos/2006/12/10/4418041/311xInlineGallery.jpg

Houston, we have a f***ing problem.











NOT.:rolleyes:

LOL. If only Ewing was here today...

aNYtitan
09-09-2008, 08:30 PM
Kerry Collins may be the WORST QB in the NFL. no, that's not even close to an exaggeration. This drunken fool shouldn't be allowed the NFL. Shouldn't be able to be in a stadium or watch a game on TV.

******* Kerry Collins

There is no way Kerry Collins is instantly the worst starter in the NFL now. Maybe thats just a little Giants resentment, becuase are you trully telling me that you would rather have JT O'Sullivan or Kyle Orton or Matt Cassell or Damon Huard start over him?

Babylon
09-09-2008, 08:43 PM
Kerry Collins may be the WORST QB in the NFL. no, that's not even close to an exaggeration. This drunken fool shouldn't be allowed the NFL. Shouldn't be able to be in a stadium or watch a game on TV.

******* Kerry Collins


Is he even the worst Qb on his own team? One guy is a drunken fool and the other just a fool, from what everyone seems to think.

OzTitan
09-09-2008, 09:25 PM
I don't think Kerry is an alcoholic anymore.

Oh, and according to this article, VY is indeed battling depression, and his mom even said he has expressed interest to quit the NFL:

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080909/SPORTS01/80909129/1027

Probably deserves its own thread really, but I CBF'd.

aNYtitan
09-09-2008, 09:50 PM
I don't think Kerry is an alcoholic anymore.

Oh, and according to this article, VY is indeed battling depression, and his mom even said he has expressed interest to quit the NFL:

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080909/SPORTS01/80909129/1027

Probably deserves its own thread really, but I CBF'd.
Well I can't name any but haven't players played on during bouts of depression? Its just whether the player can keep their emotions under control. I'm a little concerned, but until the day in which Jeff Fisher has a 100% healthy Young and starts Collins over him, I am not worried.

OzTitan
09-09-2008, 09:57 PM
I dunno, I'm pretty sure his mother saying Vince has said he wants to quit in the past 48 hours is enough reason to be worried about his NFL future. It's getting to him and he's slipping. It's really more about saving a life at this point than saving an NFL career though I think. He needs help and time off.

yourfavestoner
09-09-2008, 09:59 PM
I dunno, I'm pretty sure his mother saying Vince has said he wants to quit in the past 48 hours is enough reason to be worried about his NFL future. It's getting to him and he's slipping. It's really more about saving a life at this point than saving an NFL career though I think. He needs help and time off.

I think he just needs a medical marijuana card. It'll work wonders for him.

RCAChainGang
09-09-2008, 10:00 PM
The night before the Titans game I said Collins runs the offense better than Vince!

And check out what happened?

OzTitan
09-09-2008, 10:05 PM
Collins threw 2 balls, both of which were short passes which the WR/TE made into bigger gains.

Collins is a better passer but I really doubt the Titans offense will be much more efficient. He is just as much an INT machine as Vince and he is far more of a liability to fumble. That and he has no wheels.

islandboy843
09-09-2008, 10:07 PM
OzTitan's sig is sooooo sexy.

islandboy843
09-09-2008, 10:08 PM
Yeah i mean a 44 yard screen play shows you can run the offense better.

RCAChainGang
09-09-2008, 10:13 PM
Yeah i mean a 44 yard screen play shows you can run the offense better.

Well, I guess your right. We have yet to see.

Collins looks better though when he comes in. That's not only from that game but times last season as well.

OzTitan
09-09-2008, 10:16 PM
That's Collins' game though. He'll look fantastic in spots, and then throw an INT on a game winning drive.

islandboy843
09-09-2008, 10:19 PM
Just give the ball to CJ I say.

OzTitan
09-09-2008, 10:31 PM
Just give the ball to CJ I say.

Yeah, but I have my doubts about his ability to stay healthy. The guy runs like Marion Barber but he's closer to DeSean Jackson in size.

TitanHope
09-09-2008, 11:31 PM
Collins's yardage came from the WR's YAC. Scaife had a huge run, and Gage broke a few tackles on his catch.

Collins's QB rating in Tennessee over the past two seasons is 60.2. Young's QB rating is 68.1. Collins can make the tougher passes more consistently than Young, but he in no way runs the offense more efficiently.

All VY needs is some good ole Prozac, and he'll be fine! (As long as he doesn't get it from YFS...)

Bruce Banner
09-09-2008, 11:45 PM
http://blogs.nfl.com/2008/09/09/titans-simms-agree-to-terms/

Simms is an Titan.

(Yep an Titan)

Saints-Tigers
09-09-2008, 11:49 PM
I hope Vince overcomes this all, he's such a special athlete and had a great swagger and leadership ability as a quarterback, I'd hate to see it all go to waste.

yo123
09-09-2008, 11:51 PM
I know it has been posted before, but I love this line:

Young's absence prompts police search, but agent downplays matter (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3577597)



Why the hell did the journalist have to include the part about eating chicken wings?

I don't know, but I've been watching ESPN for 15 minutes and they have mentioned chicken wings at least 3 times.

CashmoneyDrew
09-10-2008, 12:10 AM
I guess we should get prepared to draft Stafford. Maybe we should trade for Brady Quinnzell

Saints-Tigers
09-10-2008, 12:24 AM
I don't know, but I've been watching ESPN for 15 minutes and they have mentioned chicken wings at least 3 times.

It's cuz he's black! I'm tellin you awfullyquiet!

I'm playin this time, I haven't even heard the chicken wing thing :D

LonghornsLegend
09-10-2008, 12:34 AM
I guess we should get prepared to draft Stafford. Maybe we should trade for Brady Quinnzell

I doubt Fisher lets you guys finish that low, Collins is going to move the offense better no matter how bad he might be, CJ might be able to open things up even more if the passing game is decent.

Shane P. Hallam
09-10-2008, 12:37 AM
I feel bad for the guy if he is suffering from severe depression. I have seen it and the it can really cripple a person. I hope he makes it through.

awfullyquiet
09-10-2008, 12:38 AM
I feel bad for the guy if he is suffering from severe depression. I have seen it and the it can really cripple a person. I hope he makes it through.

e.g. Tommy Blake...

comahan
09-10-2008, 12:41 AM
Go back to Texas and win another national title!

Bruce Banner
09-10-2008, 12:42 AM
e.g. Tommy Blake...

He shouldnt be allowed to play. Plain and simple. If he suddenly went psycho on the field it could have tragic consequenses for the opposite team. No one wants a charles manson-like person wanting to kill u on the other team.

...............

awfullyquiet
09-10-2008, 12:47 AM
...............

did you really have to do that?

Bruce Banner
09-10-2008, 12:51 AM
did you really have to do that?

Do what? I thought it was a joke about people overreacting about players mental health.

awfullyquiet
09-10-2008, 12:53 AM
Do what? I thought it was a joke about people overreacting about players mental health.

no. put me in the same reply as IDD

Bruce Banner
09-10-2008, 12:53 AM
no. put me in the same reply as IDD

Maybe his genius will rub off on you.

Turtlepower
09-10-2008, 02:00 AM
Maybe his genius will rub off on you.

He is a genius. He says outrageous things just to get a rise out of people and everyone seems to fall for it. I say good job to you.

Bruce Banner
09-10-2008, 03:12 AM
He is a genius. He says outrageous things just to get a rise out of people and everyone seems to fall for it. I say good job to you.

exactly 9000 rep, don't see that often. and yes IDD is awesome.

OzTitan
09-10-2008, 09:31 AM
It isn't official yet, but it seems Chris Simms was signed to a 3 year deal.

Odd, because it means he isn't being released any time soon, and the Titans don't carry 3 QB's usually. Fisher wouldn't waste a roster spot on a 3rd QB when he could have another DB or RB. Even more odd is they have Ingle Martin on the PS, who is perfect to bring up for a few weeks while VY heals, and then put back down when VY is back.

Well, they had Martin on the PS, until the Chiefs signed him to their 53 man roster shortly after Simms was to be a Titan. Pretty strange really, given Martin's inexperience.

Anyway, I get the feeling Vince is going to be absent for a while, and not because of his strained MCL. I also get the feeling that, before Vince's mother spilled the beans on his mental struggles, Fisher planned to use the knee injury as cover for an extended break without speculation. Ooops. This mother interview is going to be a national story shortly, gg Mrs Young.

Shane P. Hallam
09-10-2008, 12:58 PM
If that comment was coming from anyone but IDD, I'd go off on him. But we all know what he is fool of...

Nice post OzTitan, and I can understand a Mom trying to protect her son. Depression won't lead to violence really. Vince just needs to see a psychiatrist I imagine, he can likely work through his illness and come out swinging later this year or next year if he so chooses. It is treatable, just may take some therapy and medication.

CC.SD
09-10-2008, 01:06 PM
exactly 9000 rep, don't see that often. and yes IDD is awesome.

Of course he is, he invented the quadruple team.

Turtlepower
09-10-2008, 01:08 PM
exactly 9000 rep, don't see that often. and yes IDD is awesome.

Beerbaron repped me 9 points just to put me at 9,000.

CC.SD
09-10-2008, 01:11 PM
Beerbaron repped me 9 points just to put me at 9,000.

Can someone rep me 6 points? I'd like to pay tribute to the founding of our nation.

islandboy843
09-10-2008, 01:26 PM
I remember my rep was at 666. lol

CashmoneyDrew
09-10-2008, 02:09 PM
Back on topic?

princefielder28
09-10-2008, 02:13 PM
Beerbaron repped me 9 points just to put me at 9,000.

i gave you rep and screwed up in my math doing so; i'm sure you'll wonder about my comment

Turtlepower
09-10-2008, 02:19 PM
Can someone rep me 6 points? I'd like to pay tribute to the founding of our nation.

Now all you need is 1 rep for 2,000.

CashmoneyDrew
09-10-2008, 02:25 PM
All I have to say about the situation is that if he thinks he's got it bad in Tennessee with the media and fans here on his back, he wouldn't have lasted 3 games in places like New York or Philly.

CC.SD
09-10-2008, 03:43 PM
Now all you need is 1 rep for 2,000.

I know. I'm soooooo close to getting there that it's time to start thinking about baseball. :D

BlindSite
09-10-2008, 05:07 PM
It isn't official yet, but it seems Chris Simms was signed to a 3 year deal.

Odd, because it means he isn't being released any time soon, and the Titans don't carry 3 QB's usually. Fisher wouldn't waste a roster spot on a 3rd QB when he could have another DB or RB. Even more odd is they have Ingle Martin on the PS, who is perfect to bring up for a few weeks while VY heals, and then put back down when VY is back.

Well, they had Martin on the PS, until the Chiefs signed him to their 53 man roster shortly after Simms was to be a Titan. Pretty strange really, given Martin's inexperience.

Anyway, I get the feeling Vince is going to be absent for a while, and not because of his strained MCL. I also get the feeling that, before Vince's mother spilled the beans on his mental struggles, Fisher planned to use the knee injury as cover for an extended break without speculation. Ooops. This mother interview is going to be a national story shortly, gg Mrs Young.

Young is about to be out for a few weeks for whatever reason, that means you need a back up for Collins ;)

aNYtitan
09-10-2008, 05:13 PM
If that comment was coming from anyone but IDD, I'd go off on him. But we all know what he is fool of...

Nice post OzTitan, and I can understand a Mom trying to protect her son. Depression won't lead to violence really. Vince just needs to see a psychiatrist I imagine, he can likely work through his illness and come out swinging later this year or next year if he so chooses. It is treatable, just may take some therapy and medication.
Though I hoped it didn't have to happen, I say VY should have all the time he needs to battle these demons. Honestly, that would be the best prescription. I said earlier I would hope that he would use this time to study the system. Now, he probably should do the exact opposite and get away from football for several days. Start seeing a psychiatrist and get counsel from friends. The best thing to do is not try to get back too soon, and try to seem to be impervious because all that you fought for would be for naught. This guy has some talent that the NFL hasn't seen since Mike Vick, and I would really hate for it to just be pushed away and forgotten.

smittyjs
09-10-2008, 05:35 PM
He needs to go chill with mcnair and just find himself, but we got your back VY :)

CashmoneyDrew
09-10-2008, 05:42 PM
Young is about to be out for a few weeks for whatever reason, that means you need a back up for Collins ;)

Young has only been ruled out for this week. Not necessarily the weeks after Cincy.

CC.SD
09-10-2008, 05:42 PM
I guess I'd be depressed too if my team let Travis Henry go, then spent 2 second rounders and a 1st rounder on running backs all while I have absolutely no one to throw to. :D

CashmoneyDrew
09-10-2008, 05:46 PM
I guess I'd be depressed too if my team let Travis Henry go, then spent 2 second rounders and a 1st rounder on running backs all while I have absolutely no one to throw to. :D

Wow, that was incredibly original. You should write material for comedians. :/

sweetness34
09-10-2008, 06:01 PM
I really don't want to hear about Vince Young being criticized. He hasn't faced half of what Rex got in Chicago. Get over it. You're a high draft pick that hasn't done **** in Tennessee so far. You are a multi-millionaire, and there are plenty of guys out there who would love to be in the position you are in as a starting QB in the NFL.

OzTitan
09-10-2008, 08:49 PM
Young is about to be out for a few weeks for whatever reason, that means you need a back up for Collins ;)

Right, but on a 3y deal? They had Ingle Martin to bring up in the event of a injury for a few weeks.

Simms himself wouldn't sign to a team without having a real opportunity either. He thinks he's still a starting quality QB, which he could be. And from his quotes so far, he seems to suggest he was presented with such an opportunity with the Titans, which wouldn't be the case if Titans were confident Young was coming back as soon as his knee was ready.

OzTitan
09-10-2008, 08:52 PM
I really don't want to hear about Vince Young being criticized. He hasn't faced half of what Rex got in Chicago. Get over it. You're a high draft pick that hasn't done **** in Tennessee so far. You are a multi-millionaire, and there are plenty of guys out there who would love to be in the position you are in as a starting QB in the NFL.
Well, if the culprit is indeed depression, you should know it isn't a condition that descriminates. Status, pay check, pressure not as much as it could be - not relevant really if it is the case.

But then he could just be a weak person mentally who can't take it anymore too. Probably won't know for a while.

zCaddyz
09-10-2008, 09:43 PM
I think he'll be alright, hes just so mad and loves the game so he bugged out everyone does.

TitanHope
09-10-2008, 10:26 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Aogryjm0t.hNa9TJ07LJMQ85nYcB?slug=ap-titans-young&prov=ap&type=lgns

Here's a good story on VY. He was at practice today.

I'd say Simms is both short-term and long-term insurance. I bet Collins retires after this season. Simms's desire to start can only motivate VY to improve, and hopefully trigger his competitivness and distract from all the negativity he hears. If it's the worst-case scenario, then Simms is a solid, young QB that could hold the reigns until a future QB is found. But after Simms getting passed over for Cassel in New England, maybe he's just learned that his best chance to get a starting job on a team is as a backup on another team who has a relatively good chance at seeing some playing time.

OzTitan
09-10-2008, 10:47 PM
Simms comes off to me as a guy who is hungry for a real starting opportunity above anything else. I just don't see him signing with the Titans if he wasn't promised one this season. The Chiefs situation seems far more suited to a guy like Simms if Vince is coming back soon, and hence dropping Simms to the #3 QB, which by the way Jeff Fisher rarely ever has on his 53 man roster.

Bruce Banner
09-10-2008, 10:51 PM
Simms comes off to me as a guy who is hungry for a real starting opportunity above anything else. I just don't see him signing with the Titans if he wasn't promised one this season. The Chiefs situation seems far more suited to a guy like Simms if Vince is coming back soon, and hence dropping Simms to the #3 QB, which by the way Jeff Fisher rarely ever has on his 53 man roster.

Simms comes off to me as a guy who can't get his passes past the LOS, a guy with a gruesome injury history, a guy who telegraphs his target right after the snap, and a guy who can't handle competition.

OzTitan
09-10-2008, 11:02 PM
Simms comes off to me as a guy who can't get his passes past the LOS, a guy with a gruesome injury history, a guy who telegraphs his target right after the snap, and a guy who can't handle competition.
Buccs fan, right?

Why is he hated by Buccs fans so much? Even Pacman had/has his supporters amongst Titans fans :P

Seriously though, I'm not really talking him up, I'm just stating he's a guy who wants to start, justified or not. That's clearly his goal. Plus if he can't handle competition, it only stands to further throw Vince's future into question, as otherwise he'd be entering a team with no chance for QB controversey for the top 2 spots, which would be silly on his behalf. There's got to be something the Titans told him that makes it worth his while.

Bruce Banner
09-10-2008, 11:08 PM
Buccs fan, right?

Why is he hated by Buccs fans so much?

Yes, Bucs fan.

Why do we hate him so much?

First of all he blamed the organization for his struggles on the field. Two, he said he was taken hostage by the organization even though they offered him a multi-year, multi-million dollar contract after a potentially career ending injury. Three, he sucks on ice.

OzTitan
09-10-2008, 11:13 PM
Yes, Bucs fan.

Why do we hate him so much?

First of all he blamed the organization for his struggles on the field. Two, he said he was taken hostage by the organization even though they offered him a multi-year, multi-million dollar contract after a potentially career ending injury. Three, he sucks on ice.

Fair enough, but I always think there are two sides to these stories.

Bruce Banner
09-10-2008, 11:19 PM
Fair enough, but I always think there are two sides to these stories.

There are two sides.

1. He didn't fit the West Coast offense.
2. Which is why Gruden never took to him fully. Criticizing his mobility among other things.
3. He had a big mouth and told the media too much.

CashmoneyDrew
09-11-2008, 12:32 AM
Hell I'd blame the team for my struggles too the way they keep 6 Qbs on the roster all the time. Took away from his snaps in practice is how I'd see it.

Bruce Banner
09-11-2008, 12:33 AM
Hell I'd blame the team for my struggles too the way they keep 6 Qbs on the roster all the time. Took away from his snaps in practice is how I'd see it.

Garcia, Griese, and McCown were fine.

Babylon
09-11-2008, 01:12 PM
It'll be interesting going forward to see what becomes of Vince Young. He's really opened himself to the critics with some of these rediculous comments (by others mostly) that he is too harshly criticized. Makes you wonder how much they screened him before the draft. We know he isnt the brightest guy in the world but i wonder if personality traits there and were ignored.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-11-2008, 01:35 PM
It'll be interesting going forward to see what becomes of Vince Young. He's really opened himself to the critics with some of these rediculous comments (by others mostly) that he is too harshly criticized. Makes you wonder how much they screened him before the draft. We know he isnt the brightest guy in the world but i wonder if personality traits there and were ignored.

Sad to say, but Young's problems were predictable

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8550254/Sad-to-say,-but-Young%27s-problems-were-predictable



This was from Whitlock, the same writer, before Young was drafted.

Young not ready for Prime Time
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=whitlock/060309

badgerbacker
09-11-2008, 04:02 PM
I was just going to post that. I'm usually not a fan of what Whitlock writes, but that article was a great read.

scottyboy
09-11-2008, 04:21 PM
There is no way Kerry Collins is instantly the worst starter in the NFL now. Maybe thats just a little Giants resentment, becuase are you trully telling me that you would rather have JT O'Sullivan or Kyle Orton or Matt Cassell or Damon Huard start over him?

I'd take Huard over Collins, yes. Of course it's an over-reaction, but the guy sucks. He really does. If Ike Hilliard could catch with his feet, he'd be a HOF lock right now

LonghornsLegend
09-11-2008, 04:47 PM
2 former UT QB's at Tennessee now, it would be ironic if Simms ended up winning the job over VY at some point, all I can remember was how Simms folded at every big game he ever had at Texas, and he kept it going with his 1 playoff experience...He's decent enough to be a backup, or manage a team like the Chiefs for a year, but if you have playoff aspirations he doesn't need to be starting.

CC.SD
09-11-2008, 05:13 PM
2 former UT QB's at Tennessee now, it would be ironic if Simms ended up winning the job over VY at some point, all I can remember was how Simms folded at every big game he ever had at Texas, and he kept it going with his 1 playoff experience...He's decent enough to be a backup, or manage a team like the Chiefs for a year, but if you have playoff aspirations he doesn't need to be starting.

Simms definitely played well enough to beat the Redskins in that playoff game; his balls were getting dropped, especially on some important downs IIRC. I distinctly remember turning that game off thinking that he got screwed.

Bruce Banner
09-11-2008, 05:15 PM
Simms definitely played well enough to beat the Redskins in that playoff game; his balls were getting dropped, especially on some important downs IIRC. I distinctly remember turning that game off thinking that he got screwed.

Edell Shepherd, end zone catch ruled a drop due to failure to maintain possession after the play.

Menardo75
09-12-2008, 12:20 AM
Yeah I really was never impressed with Simms either. I thought he was average in college

CC.SD
09-12-2008, 05:45 PM
Vince considered suicide.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8552244/Report:-Therapist-said-Young-mentioned-suicide

The kid is loco in his cabeza.

Bruce Banner
09-12-2008, 05:51 PM
Vince considered suicide.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8552244/Report:-Therapist-said-Young-mentioned-suicide

The kid is loco in his cabeza.

Isn't it illegal for therapists to go around informing anyone other than his family.

and he's not loco, just depressed.

Prince 561
09-12-2008, 06:12 PM
Isn't it illegal for therapists to go around informing anyone other than his family.

and he's not loco, just depressed.

If the therapist was worried Young was going to hurt himself they can take steps to make sure he wouldn't, which is what happened here.

Babylon
09-12-2008, 06:25 PM
Someone talked about Vince having to earn his job back when he returns. I think the leash gets shorter because Fisher didnt want him there in the first place. I hope the kid gets it together but i doubt he's there next year.

Bucs_Rule
09-12-2008, 07:54 PM
VY has no confidence at the moment and a QB can't be successful without it. Once he returns he should be stuck on the bench as the third stringer and just working with coaches on his development and hopefully regain his confidence. Being thrown back in the fire without confidence guarntees that he will continue to struggle and thus his confidence will never return.

He definitly seems like he needs a change of scenery. Going to a new team where he won't have the pressure to start. Fans would have no expectations for him and the team didn't invest much to get him. That would get rid of the constant critisism and let him restore some of his self-confidence. Plus it would give him time to actually work with coaches on his development in peace. Something that he has needed since he was drafted. The media constantly said that he was the project type that would need atleast a year or 2 on the bench before he was ready to start.

CashmoneyDrew
09-12-2008, 08:46 PM
He definitly seems like he needs a change of scenery. Going to a new team where he won't have the pressure to start. Fans would have no expectations for him and the team didn't invest much to get him. That would get rid of the constant critisism and let him restore some of his self-confidence. Plus it would give him time to actually work with coaches on his development in peace. Something that he has needed since he was drafted. The media constantly said that he was the project type that would need atleast a year or 2 on the bench before he was ready to start.

He's played a whole two seasons in the league and he already needs a change of scenery? God forbid he should play through some adversity to become a good player. He should be babied his whole career, right? It's Tennessee. If he can't handle the pressure/media here, he isn't gonna be making it anywhere else.

Babylon
09-12-2008, 09:25 PM
He's played a whole two seasons in the league and he already needs a change of scenery? God forbid he should play through some adversity to become a good player. He should be babied his whole career, right? It's Tennessee. If he can't handle the pressure/media here, he isn't gonna be making it anywhere else.


I dont see him getting better, he isnt changing his mechanics anytime soon and the more he runs the more he gets hurt. He has a good team around him so he'll get his wins but doubt he ever gets deep in the playoffs.

Bosanac01
09-12-2008, 10:06 PM
They're talking about him mentioning suicide to a therapist.

OzTitan
09-12-2008, 10:44 PM
Someone talked about Vince having to earn his job back when he returns. I think the leash gets shorter because Fisher didnt want him there in the first place. I hope the kid gets it together but i doubt he's there next year.

Maybe not at first, but Young saved Fisher's job in 06. Not that he wouldn't have had a job elsewhere, but still. I think Fisher genuinely likes the small market, and more importantl small media Nashville scene.

Smooth Criminal
09-12-2008, 10:58 PM
Young isn't going anywhere. He has a huge contract with the Titans.

I can see him taking the year off and letting Collins start this season. Have Young take the offseason and be ready to play when he comes back.

d34ng3l021
09-12-2008, 11:46 PM
Did you guys see the article about VY's therapist saying that Vince Young mentioned suicide a couple times? Crazy stuff.

aNYtitan
09-12-2008, 11:59 PM
I dont see him getting better, he isnt changing his mechanics anytime soon and the more he runs the more he gets hurt. He has a good team around him so he'll get his wins but doubt he ever gets deep in the playoffs.
I think you mean a good team...on defense. Offensively, he hasn't had the tools. The one plus he has is an above average offensive line. The running game this season after one game has showed the ability to be in the top 10, as opposed to an average run offense like last season. And all things considered, he doesn't have the best WR's to pass the ball too. Maybe we should give him some more time, because it just has been 2 years. Like I said before mentioning Manning, Eli had a ton of pressure on him after his 3rd season which ended in failure, and he overcame it and won a super bowl. Maybe its not just time to call him a bust yet. And please, don't say anything about change of scenery, this is not another PacMan Jones situation. This situation can be salvaged.

Gatz
09-13-2008, 12:01 AM
Did you guys see the article about VY's therapist saying that Vince Young mentioned suicide a couple times? Crazy stuff.That information should have never gotten out.
Confidential my ass.

It's probably his family/friends going around blabbing it out. I don't see how this can help him at all.

d34ng3l021
09-13-2008, 12:35 AM
That information should have never gotten out.
Confidential my ass.

It's probably his family/friends going around blabbing it out. I don't see how this can help him at all.

Thats what I thought too, but I think when a life is in danger, a shrink is allowed to report it.

I am not sure if that was just some stupid plot device a movie used or if its actually true though.

Gatz
09-13-2008, 12:38 AM
Thats what I thought too, but I think when a life is in danger, a shrink is allowed to report it.

I am not sure if that was just some stupid plot device a movie used or if its actually true though.
Yes you are allowed to report it, but I doubt that there was a point where it was so serious that the therapist had to tell anyone outside the immediate family. And the family should have never let this out if the article is true.

Gatz
09-13-2008, 12:48 AM
His family/friends need to shut up. He can really do without unwanted attention right now.
He has to mature and learn how to pass in order to be successful in this league.

Menardo75
09-13-2008, 01:55 AM
I cannot believe they let that information out.

OzTitan
09-13-2008, 03:09 AM
It's my understanding that when a medical professional has reason to believe a person is going to harm someone else or themself, that they must report it. Otherwise, the confidentiality agreement stands.

Then it is also my understanding police reports are made public. So putting two and two together, it would seem this leak of info is not something that should have been unexpected for the Titans or Vince.

Bruce Banner
09-13-2008, 03:12 AM
Ok, the therapists can tell the family and such but NOT REPORT IT.

The media shouldn't have this information. When I saw it on the bottom ticker on ESPN I was disgusted. It was pathetic. He said/She said ********.

Bengalsrocket
09-13-2008, 06:42 AM
Ok, the therapists can tell the family and such but NOT REPORT IT.

The media shouldn't have this information. When I saw it on the bottom ticker on ESPN I was disgusted. It was pathetic. He said/She said ********.

Are we positive the therapist is the one who went to the media?

Edit: on second glance at the story, it looks like the therapist called the police and then the police made a public record - is that true?

LonghornsLegend
09-13-2008, 08:34 AM
I think its crazy how stuff like this leaks, as if he really needed the entire world to know he was thinking about suicide, like if the man really was I doubt this would help the situation by putting it out there...Why not have the Therapist tell the family and the family go get him some help on the side, I doubt this kind of stuff is really helping Vince.

Prince 561
09-13-2008, 09:58 AM
People have already explained how this "leaked". Read the thread or use common sense.

Therapist contacted police because Young was having suicidal thoughts. That's standard practice if they believe their client is a danger to themself or somebody else. From there, the police reported the incident which is how the media knows.

LonghornsLegend
09-13-2008, 10:50 AM
People have already explained how this "leaked". Read the thread or use common sense.

Why the hostility? I didn't know it was that serious, take a break from the internet for awhile.

Bruce
09-13-2008, 10:54 AM
Isn't it illegal for therapists to go around informing anyone other than his family.

Yes and i'd expect a very expensive lawsuit to ensue.

bigbluedefense
09-13-2008, 11:03 AM
Forget about football for a second. If this suicide talk is legitimate, then Young needs to do whats best for himself, whether thats retiring or not. Life isn't just about football. If he doesn't want to play, he shouldn't play. And thats that.

He might be one of the many examples of guys who just play football to "make it". Money doesn't always bring happiness.

Bruce
09-13-2008, 11:09 AM
Forget about football for a second. If this suicide talk is legitimate, then Young needs to do whats best for himself, whether thats retiring or not. Life isn't just about football. If he doesn't want to play, he shouldn't play. And thats that.

He might be one of the many examples of guys who just play football to "make it". Money doesn't always bring happiness.But it's different if you play a game you're good at, but have no desire to play.

Vince just isn't good at the game he plays, plus he has no desire to play it, and that spells trouble.

Prince 561
09-13-2008, 11:12 AM
Yes and i'd expect a very expensive lawsuit to ensue.

Thanks for your legal counsel.

bigbluedefense
09-13-2008, 11:21 AM
But it's different if you play a game you're good at, but have no desire to play.

Vince just isn't good at the game he plays, plus he has no desire to play it, and that spells trouble.

I can't say as an outsider looking in, but i bet his lack of desire is a big reason why he's stinking right now. If your heart isn't in it, youre not gonna put in the necessary preparation to become great. We saw flashes of greatness from Vince, but perhaps his lack of desire is what is hurting his development.

You can't force someone to want it.

Bruce
09-13-2008, 11:41 AM
Thanks for your legal counsel.Who are? Other than the guy who gets neg repped for ******** posts?

steelersfan43
09-13-2008, 11:48 AM
why the hell is espn reporting on him talking about suicide to his therapist? people dont need to know that and obviously the guy watches espn, and its just going to make him feel worse. ******* ass holes who dont care about the well being of the guy, just want to make a buck at his expense.

Prince 561
09-13-2008, 11:49 AM
Who are? Other than the guy who gets neg repped for ******** posts?

Want my full name and address or what? I can also send you some family photos if you like.

Bruce
09-13-2008, 11:51 AM
Want my full name and address or what? I can also send you some family photos if you like.That would be more than gracious of you. I do appreciate the effort put forth by you.

Fact is I said the doc should get sued. Never said he'd win in a court of law.

Prince 561
09-13-2008, 11:52 AM
That would be more than gracious of you. I do appreciate the effort put forth by you.

Fact is I said the doc should get sued. Never said he'd win in a court of law.

Did you not ready any of this thread? If his client is in danger, the therapist can and should call the cops. He didn't do anything wrong.

Bruce
09-13-2008, 12:03 PM
Did you not ready any of this thread? If his client is in danger, the therapist can and should call the cops. He didn't do anything wrong.So why does Vince tell him he's suicidal? If the doctor is only going to go to the cops? It's a useless cycle. Normally cops have to get an act of congress (exaggeration) to get records from therapists.

Prince 561
09-13-2008, 12:07 PM
So why does Vince tell him he's suicidal? If the doctor is only going to go to the cops? It's a useless cycle. Normally cops have to get an act of congress (exaggeration) to get records from therapists.

He's talking to his therapist. The whole point is to be honest. If the therapist thinks Vince is a danger to himself or others, it's his responsibility to do something about it. If you wanted into your therapist's office and told him you were going to kill yourself you think they'll just sit there and do nothing? The cops didn't request this info from the therapist, the therapist called the cops to protect Vince.

Bruce
09-13-2008, 12:21 PM
He's talking to his therapist. The whole point is to be honest. If the therapist thinks Vince is a danger to himself or others, it's his responsibility to do something about it. If you wanted into your therapist's office and told him you were going to kill yourself you think they'll just sit there and do nothing? The cops didn't request this info from the therapist, the therapist called the cops to protect Vince.

If anyone says they're suicidal don't you think that's a serious issue? Yes. But enough to go to the cops EVERY TIME? No, i don't think so. There's a reason Vince goes to this guy and chooses to tell this guy he's feeling suicidal instead of going to his friends and family.

Prince 561
09-13-2008, 12:25 PM
If anyone says they're suicidal don't you think that's a serious issue? Yes. But enough to go to the cops EVERY TIME? No, i don't think so. There's a reason Vince goes to this guy and chooses to tell this guy he's feeling suicidal instead of going to his friends and family.

You have no idea what you're talking about. I would say it's a pretty dangerous situation when somebody is talking about suicide and then leaves with a gun.

princefielder28
09-13-2008, 12:27 PM
Let's end this little fight between you two

hockey619
09-13-2008, 12:37 PM
http://www.law.indiana.edu/webinit/tanford/archive/Psypriv.html

Its called patient privileges. A therapist is supposed to keep all that goes on between the therapist and patient confidential in the same way that a lawyer keeps talks between lawyer and patient confidential. The court can seize records and testimony. That said, if you read section 12.0, "Discussions of past crimes or wrongdoing are privileged, but not discussions of plans for future crimes or violence" the therapist is perfectly within his/her legal right to contact authorities as Im pretty sure of violence to oneself falls within that category.

I understand where the therapist is coming from, but as was previously stated, there's a reason that Young goes to the therapist and not his friends and family. Its private, very personal information, and the therapist shouldv'e kept quiet or at least kept the problem under raps so that it didnt become a story in the media, which will only make things worse, which is where i really have a problem with this. It should have been done more privately.

Prince 561
09-13-2008, 12:43 PM
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb4378/is_200506/ai_n18920068

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3898/is_/ai_n8936187

Its called patient privileges. A therapist is supposed to keep all that goes on between the therapist and patient confidential in the same way that a lawyer keeps talks between lawyer and patient confidential. The court can seize records and testimony but the therapist cant legally go to the police under any circumstance.

I understand where the therapist is coming from, but as was previously stated, there's a reason that Young goes to the therapist and not his friends and family. Its private, very personal information, and the therapist shouldv'e kept quiet or at least kept the problem under raps so that it didnt become a story in the media, which will only make things worse.

Seriously...WHY talk about stuff that you don't know about?

http://mentalhealth.about.com/library/weekly/aa040901a.htm

# Most people are aware that confidentiality can be broken if the client is believed to be a danger to him or herself or someone else. A psychologist or other mental health professional may be required to break confidentiality in order to protect the client or the person that they are threatening to harm.

hockey619
09-13-2008, 12:49 PM
I was in the process of fixing it while you posted so i didnt even see it but yeah my original source wasnt accurate. Sorry, my fault.

Bruce
09-13-2008, 12:49 PM
Let's end this little fight between you twoIt's a debate. Not meaningless arguing.

Bruce
09-13-2008, 12:54 PM
Seriously...WHY talk about stuff that you don't know about?

http://mentalhealth.about.com/library/weekly/aa040901a.htmThat's basically a judgment call by the therapist. And in this case, while Vince had a gun it wasn't loaded, and appeared to be a protection weapon more than a harmful one to himself. And I think it was a bad judgment call. You have to take into consideration the public finding out what he confided in the therapist and if and/or when that info got out. How the public finding out would further affect his mental state.

Bad call by the therapist.

Prince 561
09-13-2008, 12:56 PM
That's basically a judgment call by the therapist. And in this case, while Vince had a gun it wasn't loaded, and appeared to be a protection weapon more than a harmful one to himself. And I think it was a bad judgment call. You have to take into consideration the public finding out what he confided in the therapist and if and/or when that info got out. How the public finding out would further affect his mental state.

Bad call by the therapist.

LOL

So YOU, who has absolutely no background in psychology and no connection or contact with Young can make that call? OK buddy.

Bruce
09-13-2008, 01:03 PM
LOL

So YOU, who has absolutely no background in psychology and no connection or contact with Young can make that call? OK buddy.I stat my opinion. I'm more than being civil and fair with this but you continue to be rude and obnoxious and think you have more knowledge and experience with this topic when it's quite clear you're just as knowledgeable on this topic as I am.

Thug Life fa sho'

Bengalsrocket
09-13-2008, 03:18 PM
Both sides of this debate are compelling, but I think discretion should be second to security. Yes, the way his actions worked out, he created a bigger problem for both himself and Vince Young - however there was no way to tell what the outcome would have been before it happened. Sometimes I wish we all had a rewind button but unfortunately that is not how life works.

I'm glad Vince is alive, and I'm glad the therapist went with the questionable call "just in case". The current situation in which Vince is in now, though slightly embarrassing / shameful for him, is much better than one of the possible alternatives.

just my opinion anyways!

Bruce
09-14-2008, 11:14 AM
I've got to say I wasn't a fan of Young before but after all of this i'm rooting for him.

LonghornsLegend
09-14-2008, 11:55 AM
I'm just wondering how Adam Schefter got the info that VY didn't want to come back on the field in the 2nd half of the playoff game, who would tell him that? I mean the game was very close at that point, less then 7 points if I remember correctly, so I just can't understand that one...Its not as if he came from a D-1AA school and was never used to the big game.

Matthew Jones
09-14-2008, 12:39 PM
I really hope Vince Young gets back the magic he had at Texas. He's got some stuff to work out, but he could still be a star quarterback in this league. He's got a lot of ways to beat teams and he just needs to get his head on straight and work on his mechanics. I'll be rooting for him.

aNYtitan
09-14-2008, 12:52 PM
Well it seems like now that Young not only has to overcome his demons but has to gain the respect of the Titans locker room again. Jay Glazer reported that he spoke to some members of the Titans and they said that they still liked Young as a person, but he has to re-gain the locker room so they can believe he can lead them once again. I'm really pulling for you Vince, I've always been one of your staunchest fans and I want to see you do what you did at Texas