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View Full Version : Why is DeAngelo Hall always praised so highly?


Ness
09-08-2008, 10:45 PM
Seriously it always seems like this guy is getting clowned whenever I see him play. And tonight is another fine example. Eddie Royal is killing him.

Bruce Banner
09-08-2008, 10:48 PM
no pass rush helps but he was always over hyped

CT Bronco Fan
09-08-2008, 10:49 PM
or maybe, Eddie Royal is just amazing.

Bruce Banner
09-08-2008, 10:52 PM
or maybe, Eddie Royal is just amazing.

I've been riding the Broncos all night but calm the **** down with the homerism.

Gatz
09-08-2008, 10:55 PM
On a team with little media coverage + Homers hyping him up =

PoopSandwich
09-08-2008, 11:01 PM
or maybe, Eddie Royal is just amazing.

Eddie Royal is the best player in the NFL hands down.

Ness
09-08-2008, 11:02 PM
or maybe, Eddie Royal is just amazing.

I'm not saying Eddie Royal isn't good. I'm saying that Hall hasn't been that impressive in his career...and in my opinion doesn't deserve the recognition he gets.

PoopSandwich
09-08-2008, 11:09 PM
Ocho Cinco said he sucked and that he should be called DeAngelo Fall because of how bad he is.

Ocho Cinco is right 85% of the time.

d34ng3l021
09-08-2008, 11:42 PM
You can take whatever I say with a grain of salt considering my username and the team I like, but whatever.

He let up 1 TD last year with the Falcons, and that was on a Joey Galloway slant and go for 44 yards and a TD. He did not let up any other TD and was only burnt on a couple plays (for about 30-40 yards).

But every year before that, his biggest issue has been his consistency. One week he would come in and dominate. Another week he would just make stupid gambles and stupid penalties.

I guess one reason I am happy about trading him away is that at least I know what our CBs will be like.

Bruce Banner
09-08-2008, 11:44 PM
He let up 1 TD last year with the Falcons, and that was on a Joey Galloway slant and go for 44 yards and a TD. He did not let up any other TD and was only burnt on a couple plays (for about 30-40 yards).


pretty sure it was a sluggo route but yeah he did burn him

SuperKevin
09-08-2008, 11:45 PM
it's because he runs REALLY fast and is cocky. Chad Ocho Cinco has proved that everyone loves a showboat

Menardo75
09-08-2008, 11:58 PM
He is no nasty Nate that is for sure

CC.SD
09-08-2008, 11:59 PM
I didn't see the whole game, but I know if you get roasted in the season opener, things are looking bad. The Oakland pass rush though...yech.

Ness
09-08-2008, 11:59 PM
You can take whatever I say with a grain of salt considering my username and the team I like, but whatever.

He let up 1 TD last year with the Falcons, and that was on a Joey Galloway slant and go for 44 yards and a TD. He did not let up any other TD and was only burnt on a couple plays (for about 30-40 yards).

But every year before that, his biggest issue has been his consistency. One week he would come in and dominate. Another week he would just make stupid gambles and stupid penalties.

I guess one reason I am happy about trading him away is that at least I know what our CBs will be like.

But his yards per play was terrible. Or rather, below average ranking in the mid 7's...which was the second best of his career apparently. Granted, the pass rush wasn't that great...but there is a reason he is frequently targeted.

Sniper
09-08-2008, 11:59 PM
it's because he runs REALLY fast and is cocky. Chad Ocho Cinco has proved that everyone loves a showboat

But Ocho Cinco is good. And he killed it on the Riverdance.

CC.SD
09-09-2008, 12:09 AM
But Ocho Cinco is good. And he killed it on the Riverdance.

Oh man, that riverdance WAS awesome. It cannot be denied.

Sniper
09-09-2008, 12:11 AM
Oh man, that riverdance WAS awesome. It cannot be denied.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79o1ugGw6bg

TitleTown088
09-09-2008, 12:13 AM
He must be good dawg. He was drafted high, plus I know his name.

BlindSite
09-09-2008, 12:16 AM
Eddie Royal played well but Cutler was a big part of that.

d34ng3l021
09-09-2008, 12:19 AM
But his yards per play was terrible. Or rather, below average ranking in the mid 7's...which was the second best of his career apparently. Granted, the pass rush wasn't that great...but there is a reason he is frequently targeted.

Eh whatever. I am done defending him. Do not feel like arguing for him right now.

Sniper
09-09-2008, 12:20 AM
Eh whatever. I am done defending him. Do not feel like arguing for him right now.

Because you can't possibly defend him right now.

Bruce Banner
09-09-2008, 12:22 AM
Because you can't possibly defend him right now.

why would he want to insult himself?

d34ng3l021
09-09-2008, 12:38 AM
You guys are assholes. LEAVE DEANGELO HALL ALONE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc

duckseason
09-09-2008, 12:51 AM
He let up 1 TD last year with the Falcons, and that was on a Joey Galloway slant and go for 44 yards and a TD. He did not let up any other TD and was only burnt on a couple plays (for about 30-40 yards).
You must have missed the game against the Giants, where Amani Toomer caught an easy one on him in the 1st quarter.

Boldin's 2nd TD in week 16 was on Hall as well.

I remember Anthony Gonzalez beating him badly on a deep ball that would have easily been a TD had he not been headed toward the sideline. That set up an easy TD. In my mind, Hall is accountable for that.

Not only did he play with 2 very exploitable corners in Chris Houston and Lewis Sanders, but he didn't even match up with the majority of top WR's the Falcons faced last year. Missing out on Wayne, Holt, Colston, Andre Johnson (hurt), and Burress.

Now across from Aso, Hall won't be able to hide on that comfy left side in Atlanta anymore. He'll be among the most frequently targeted corners in the league this year.

CC.SD
09-09-2008, 12:54 AM
Didn't Hall come out and say he would never play for a losing team again?

Uh...

Paranoidmoonduck
09-09-2008, 12:59 AM
Hall did a terrible job of controlling the cushion he gave Royal, but why the Raiders continued to call that cushion is utterly beyond me. Hall is more than strong enough to give Royal problems at the line, but instead let him operate with impunity for 8-12 yards. Hall has quick hips, but he didn't seem to know exactly how to attack Royal from that spot.

I swear to god, if Asomugha doesn't get re-signed, I'm pretty much done with feeling the least bit optimistic about Oakland.

CC.SD
09-09-2008, 01:03 AM
Hall did a terribly job of controlling the cushion he gave Royal, but why the Raiders continued to call that cushion is utterly beyond me. Hall is more than strong enough to give Royal problems at the line, but instead let him operate with impunity for 8-12 yards. Hall has quick hips, but he didn't seem to know exactly how to attack Royal from that spot.

I swear to god, if Asomugha doesn't get re-signed, I'm pretty much done with feeling the least bit optimistic about Oakland.

Wow, does that mean you have optimism right now? I'm seriously not trying to bash you, but I have to ask...why?

I guess D-Mac could pan out.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-09-2008, 01:06 AM
Wow, does that mean you have optimism right now? I'm seriously not trying to bash you, but I have to ask...why?

I guess D-Mac could pan out.

I have to have optimism. If I didn't, there'd be no reason to watch football.

CC.SD
09-09-2008, 01:10 AM
I have to have optimism. If I didn't, there'd be no reason to watch football.

Yeah, that's true.

doingthisinsteadofwork
09-09-2008, 01:15 AM
Wow, does that mean you have optimism right now? I'm seriously not trying to bash you, but I have to ask...why?

I guess D-Mac could pan out.It's not like Al Davis is young or anything.

Gatz
09-09-2008, 01:16 AM
It's not like Al Davis is young or anything.It's not like Al Davis is human or anything.

DraftMichaelHuff
09-09-2008, 01:46 AM
I would laugh so hard if Hall ends up on a worse team than he did with the Falcons at year end. Imagine if they cant resign Asomugha cause of the money they spent on Hall and then he Atlanta signs him! Essentialy Asomugha and Curtis Lofton for Hall- thatd have to be it for Al Davis.jks

Jokes aside though we had one of the most hated coaches in the NFL in one of the worst situations and he was on NO money and it still took him till the Carolina game (mid season i think, not sure, certainly not week one though) to commit two penalties and get in the coaches face. This year he has lost the plot in week 1. And you know what? So many WR's will niggle him now, i like the guy as a player and his swagger but its nice to not have to worry about defending him.

Finally, he was excellent last year for the most part, far more consistant. I watched the game today. Worst of his career undoubtably

Saints-Tigers
09-09-2008, 03:39 AM
You can take whatever I say with a grain of salt considering my username and the team I like, but whatever.

He let up 1 TD last year with the Falcons, and that was on a Joey Galloway slant and go for 44 yards and a TD. He did not let up any other TD and was only burnt on a couple plays (for about 30-40 yards).

But every year before that, his biggest issue has been his consistency. One week he would come in and dominate. Another week he would just make stupid gambles and stupid penalties.

I guess one reason I am happy about trading him away is that at least I know what our CBs will be like.


That's bull, Devery Henderson smoked him on a deep play, left him in a cloud of dust. Deangelo should have been forced to give back that fastest man trophy :D

BamaFalcon59
09-09-2008, 07:18 AM
Ocho Cinco said he sucked and that he should be called DeAngelo Fall because of how bad he is.

Ocho Cinco is right 85% of the time.

Umm, 'Ocho Cinco' also named him one of the top three receivers in the game and is friends with Hall.

Bottum line is Hall is generally inconsistent. He was bad in 2006 and last night as well, but in 2007 he was great. In 2005 he was excellent as well.

BamaFalcon59
09-09-2008, 07:19 AM
But his yards per play was terrible. Or rather, below average ranking in the mid 7's...which was the second best of his career apparently. Granted, the pass rush wasn't that great...but there is a reason he is frequently targeted.

Dude, just stop. Especially with the stats. If you watched him last year you know he was amazing. Stats for corners are misleading.

BamaFalcon59
09-09-2008, 07:24 AM
You must have missed the game against the Giants, where Amani Toomer caught an easy one on him in the 1st quarter.

Boldin's 2nd TD in week 16 was on Hall as well.

I remember Anthony Gonzalez beating him badly on a deep ball that would have easily been a TD had he not been headed toward the sideline. That set up an easy TD. In my mind, Hall is accountable for that.

Not only did he play with 2 very exploitable corners in Chris Houston and Lewis Sanders, but he didn't even match up with the majority of top WR's the Falcons faced last year. Missing out on Wayne, Holt, Colston, Andre Johnson (hurt), and Burress.

Now across from Aso, Hall won't be able to hide on that comfy left side in Atlanta anymore. He'll be among the most frequently targeted corners in the league this year.


Umm, no. Wrong. Amani's TD was in Demorrio William's zone. Houston was lined up on Boldin until overtime. Gonzalez did have a good game.

What? He did fine against Burress. Hall lines up on the left side every play, if he is not covering somebody it is the offenses choice, not his.

He picked off Manning that game.

Colston, when lined up on Hall, did nothing.

Smooth Criminal
09-09-2008, 07:43 AM
Because he was drafted high and continues to be overrated in Madden. People think he must be good.

Hall has been burned by some many receivers in this league.

bigbluedefense
09-09-2008, 09:26 AM
Watch the game closely. It was all Rob Ryan's fault.

He has a killer secondary going against what is a solid but not spectacular WR core missing its best player.

And he runs zone the entire game? Terrible. He was terrible. He gave the game away. I put 95% of it on Rob Ryan.


Just terrible.

Hall, Aso, those are man guys. Play man and blitz like hell.

MetSox17
09-09-2008, 09:47 AM
Watch the game closely. It was all Rob Ryan's fault.

He has a killer secondary going against what is a solid but not spectacular WR core missing its best player.

And he runs zone the entire game? Terrible. He was terrible. He gave the game away. I put 95% of it on Rob Ryan.


Just terrible.

Hall, Aso, those are man guys. Play man and blitz like hell.

That's what i'm saying. Why the hell aren't teams blitzing the crap out of offenses? I was pretty upset how the Cowboys weren't pressuring the Browns much at times, but that might be because of the loss of Terence Newman. Against Philly this coming week, i expect to see a lot more of it.

But back to the Raiders, i can't believe how bad their pass rush is. Send 6 at the quarterback and hope for the best. Obviously what you were doing before wasn't working.

doingthisinsteadofwork
09-09-2008, 09:50 AM
Kiffin wanted to fire Rob to.Hes easily the worst DC in the league.

Draft King
09-09-2008, 09:52 AM
Less zone, more man.

Hines
09-09-2008, 10:09 AM
It isnt that Hall isnt good because he is, it is he is really, really inconsistant. I think it has to do with the teams he plays on. If he played for a winner, I think he could be a top 5 corner.

He has all the tools, just doesnt put them to good use. I dont even think he really even tries all that much.

bigbluedefense
09-09-2008, 10:26 AM
It isnt that Hall isnt good because he is, it is he is really, really inconsistant. I think it has to do with the teams he plays on. If he played for a winner, I think he could be a top 5 corner.

He has all the tools, just doesnt put them to good use. I dont even think he really even tries all that much.

he was top 5 last year, easily. he's a man coverage cb, thats the thing, hes not a zone guy.

they ran way too much zone. Ryan needs to go.

619
09-09-2008, 10:27 AM
I sincerely feel bad for whomever must be assigned the epitomal role of having to play across Aso. I sincerely do.

duckseason
09-09-2008, 01:01 PM
Umm, no. Wrong. Amani's TD was in Demorrio William's zone. Houston was lined up on Boldin until overtime. Gonzalez did have a good game.

What? He did fine against Burress. Hall lines up on the left side every play, if he is not covering somebody it is the offenses choice, not his.

He picked off Manning that game.

Colston, when lined up on Hall, did nothing.

Umm, yes. Watch the damn game again before you neg rep me. I don't give a crap what you think Demorrio Williams' responsibility was on that play. Hall lined up directly across from Toomer, who ran a quick slant. Hall followed in man coverage while Demorrio and the other LB's keyed in on Jacobs. You really want Williams to leave a gaping hole in the middle of the defense on that play?

On the Boldin play, watch it again. Boldin goes in motion to the right and Chris Crocker follows. As Boldin approaches Bryant Johnson, Crocker stops directly in front of Johnson, at which point the switch is made and the ball is snapped. Johnson blocks Crocker while Hall is now responsible for Boldin. Rather than read and react to what is going on, Hall stays way back toward the sideline and appears as though he wants nothing to do with Boldin as he backpedals into the endzone while his teammates try their hardest to prevent a TD. Let me guess, that was on Demorrio Williams. Or perhaps Crocker should defend both Johnson and Boldin while Hall picks his ass?

Burress damn near always lines up on the left side of the offensive formation. Hall is always on the left side of the defensive formation. I didn't see a single play in that game where Hall faced Burress. Go ahead and dispute that, but I think you need to watch the game first.

You're right, he intercepted Manning. Not sure what that has to do with my post, which had everything to do with how many TD's he gave up this past year and nothing to do with how many interceptions he had. That interception has nothing to do with how badly Gonzalez beat him.

As for Colston, that's what I said. New Orleans moved him all around the field and he was matched up with safeties and even linebackers quite frequently. My point was that Hall didn't really face him. That point remains.

LonghornsLegend
09-09-2008, 01:08 PM
I'm not putting all that on zone, watch some of the replays, Hall was beat on MAN TO MAN coverage at least 5 times, beaten badly at that...If he was playing a zone he wouldn't of gotten his hips turned as badly as he did countless times, that comes from man coverage, if your sitting back in a zone your not following the WR in and out of every break, man coverage you have to...Royal was just breaking him down all nite, what gets me is that when Hall starts getting beat he starts crying, arguing with the coach, costing the defense personal fouls, its like he can't control himself when he can't cover a DB.


But remember, in Hall's own words, he just wants to win, its only about winning, thats why he's in Oakland right now.

Turtlepower
09-09-2008, 01:21 PM
Anyone else notice how much of a piece of **** Gibril Wilson was in the game? I am so happy we didn't give him top safety money. Kenny Phillips >>>>>> Gibril Wilson.

Burns336
09-09-2008, 01:24 PM
inconsistent and undisciplined. 30 yards worth of personal foul penalties on the same drive... now why does that sound familiar?

He's been in the league long enough now, He's just one of those guys who will never reach his potential due to ****** attitude (why Antonio Bryant, why?)

Bruce Banner
09-09-2008, 01:26 PM
He's been in the league long enough now, He's just one of those guys who will never reach his potential due to ****** attitude (why Antonio Bryant, why?)

just an update, Antonio is the Bucs #2 but he had a couple dropped balls against the 'Aints.

Dam8610
09-09-2008, 02:06 PM
pretty sure it was a sluggo route but yeah he did burn him

sluggo = slant and go

BamaFalcon59
09-09-2008, 04:06 PM
Umm, yes. Watch the damn game again before you neg rep me. I don't give a crap what you think Demorrio Williams' responsibility was on that play. Hall lined up directly across from Toomer, who ran a quick slant. Hall followed in man coverage while Demorrio and the other LB's keyed in on Jacobs. You really want Williams to leave a gaping hole in the middle of the defense on that play?

On the Boldin play, watch it again. Boldin goes in motion to the right and Chris Crocker follows. As Boldin approaches Bryant Johnson, Crocker stops directly in front of Johnson, at which point the switch is made and the ball is snapped. Johnson blocks Crocker while Hall is now responsible for Boldin. Rather than read and react to what is going on, Hall stays way back toward the sideline and appears as though he wants nothing to do with Boldin as he backpedals into the endzone while his teammates try their hardest to prevent a TD. Let me guess, that was on Demorrio Williams. Or perhaps Crocker should defend both Johnson and Boldin while Hall picks his ass?

Burress damn near always lines up on the left side of the offensive formation. Hall is always on the left side of the defensive formation. I didn't see a single play in that game where Hall faced Burress. Go ahead and dispute that, but I think you need to watch the game first.

You're right, he intercepted Manning. Not sure what that has to do with my post, which had everything to do with how many TD's he gave up this past year and nothing to do with how many interceptions he had. That interception has nothing to do with how badly Gonzalez beat him.

As for Colston, that's what I said. New Orleans moved him all around the field and he was matched up with safeties and even linebackers quite frequently. My point was that Hall didn't really face him. That point remains.

Coaches said after the game that was DeMorrio's fault, not DHalls. They know more than you.

I can't remember the Boldin TD exactly, but I do know Boldin had 90% of what, 200 yards, on Houston. Then in overtime Hall covered Boldin and Fitz made his first real impact of the game when Houston was on him.

So, if your post on Boldin is correct then it is two touchdowns allowed. Still damn good considering safety help.

duckseason
09-09-2008, 05:06 PM
Coaches said after the game that was DeMorrio's fault, not DHalls. They know more than you.

I'd like to see a video or listen to an audio recording of that, please. The game tape speaks for itself. If the coaches thought that was on Demorrio, then it was actually on the coaches. What in the hell should Hall have done on that play other than cover Toomer? Why wouldn't Demorrio's first read be Jacobs? What happens if Demorrio is 9 yards deep in the endzone and it's not play action? Jacobs has an easy TD and Hall is over there covering air in his "zone." Both players did the right thing on that play, but Hall just let Toomer get by him.

So break it down for me. What exactly were Williams and Hall supposed to do on that play?

I can't remember the Boldin TD exactly, but I do know Boldin had 90% of what, 200 yards, on Houston. Then in overtime Hall covered Boldin and Fitz made his first real impact of the game when Houston was on him.

Yes, that's one of the points I'm making. The other Falcon DB's were so bad in coverage, that opposing QB's exploited them repeatedly. It's not that they were avoiding Hall so much as they were targeting Houston and co. Essentially, Hall was able to "hide" to one degree or another last year. The game last night against Oakland helps illustrate this.

So, if your post on Boldin is correct then it is two touchdowns allowed. Still damn good considering safety help.

It is correct, but I'll point out that it's not really a coverage deficiency that led to the TD. Boldin had the ball at the LOS. It was a lack of recognition and effort. Guys like Champ, Winfield, Newman...they come up and at least try to make a play. Hall gave up.

He's a talented athlete, but his skill level as a corner has yet to even approach his level of hype. When people go around claiming that he only gave up 1 TD last year, they're contributing to the widening of that gap.

Let's cut through the bs and tell it like it is. Hall is a #2 corner with loads of potential and sticks of dynamite stuck in his earholes which contribute greatly to his inability to realize said potential. Arguments to the contrary are based on fiction.

BamaFalcon59
09-09-2008, 08:21 PM
Two touchdowns then, wow, he is horrible.

Anyways, I am done argueing.

Bruce Banner
09-09-2008, 08:24 PM
Two touchdowns then, wow, he is horrible.

Anyways, I am done argueing.

If he never played for VT or the Falcons you wouldn't be arguing, because the fans of those teams are the only people that could rationalize a defense for him.

BamaFalcon59
09-09-2008, 08:30 PM
If he never played for VT or the Falcons you wouldn't be arguing, because the fans of those teams are the only people that could rationalize a defense for him.

Maybe because those fans are the ones who have seen him play most?

Anyone who says he wasn't a top five cornerback last year is wrong, and most of you are just being trendy and saying he is overrated.

This board is so fickle. It was one game.

duckseason
09-09-2008, 08:42 PM
Two touchdowns then, wow, he is horrible.

Anyways, I am done argueing.

By my count, it's 3. But I may have missed a few.

It's not all that meaningful a stat anyway. A CB can make a perfect textbook play and still give up an 80 yard TD. That same player could trip and fall on his face and watch the ball land 5 yards beyond the intended receiver. All that really matters is how well Hall performs from play to play, game in and game out. Stats can't paint that picture clearly at all. It's plain to see that he's far too mistake-prone to be considered an elite corner.

d34ng3l021
09-09-2008, 08:49 PM
If he never played for VT or the Falcons you wouldn't be arguing, because the fans of those teams are the only people that could rationalize a defense for him.

There are other people on this board that considered him a top 5 CB last season.

duckseason
09-09-2008, 08:50 PM
Maybe because those fans are the ones who have seen him play most?

As far as I know, Sunday Ticket is available throughout the country.

Anyone who says he wasn't a top five cornerback last year is wrong, and most of you are just being trendy and saying he is overrated.

Any list of the top 5 CB's is far too subjective to be defined as right or wrong.

This board is so fickle. It was one game.

It's his entire career. Playing across from Asomugha only makes his flaws more noticeable. That game was not a fluke. It's the same Deangelo Hall we saw last year, just in a less favorable setting. Luckily for him, he again won't have to face very many elite WR's, if any.

BamaFalcon59
09-09-2008, 08:51 PM
As far as I know, Sunday Ticket is available throughout the country.



Any list of the top 5 CB's is far too subjective to be defined as right or wrong.



It's his entire career. Playing across from Asomugha only makes his flaws more noticeable. That game was not a fluke. It's the same Deangelo Hall we saw last year, just in a less favorable setting. Luckily for him, he again won't have to face very many elite WR's, if any.

Have a poll and see how many people have it at their houses, and then have another poll of how many of them watched the Falcons.

duckseason
09-09-2008, 08:57 PM
There are other people on this board that considered him a top 5 CB last season.
And there are those who truly believed that Shaun Alexander was a top 3 RB at one point. If you don't take the time to create your own perception, you naturally adopt one that's already been established. When ESPN says that Darren McFadden is the next Adrian Peterson, there's a large percentage of viewers who recite the same line to their buddies next time they're talking football. Deangelo Hall is an immensely talented athlete, but he was never a top 5 CB.

oldLibid21
09-09-2008, 08:57 PM
BamaFalcon's always been on Hall's chops. Give him a break, fellas. He's still suffering through the 'OMG WE LOST ONE OF THE BEST CBS IN THE GAME!!!111' syndrome.

BamaFalcon59
09-09-2008, 08:59 PM
And there are those who truly believed that Shaun Alexander was a top 3 RB at one point. If you don't take the time to create your own perception, you naturally adopt one that's already been established. When ESPN says that Darren McFadden is the next Adrian Peterson, there's a large percentage of viewers who recite the same line to their buddies next time they're talking football. Deangelo Hall is an immensely talented athlete, but he was never a top 5 CB.

Ok dude, the act is getting old.

You probably watched Hall in at maximum three games last year. Stop trying to be a know it all.

BamaFalcon59
09-09-2008, 08:59 PM
BamaFalcon's always been on Hall's chops. Give him a break, fellas. He's still suffering through the 'OMG WE LOST ONE OF THE BEST CBS IN THE GAME!!!111' syndrome.

Hey, I already said the trade is fine if Baker holds up like he has. Get off my back.

Prince 561
09-09-2008, 09:00 PM
Ok dude, the act is getting old.

You probably watched Hall in at maximum three games last year. Stop trying to be a know it all.

And you've watched enough CBs to accurately rate him Top 5? Check yourself.

Bruce Banner
09-09-2008, 09:00 PM
And there are those who truly believed that Shaun Alexander was a top 3 RB at one point. If you don't take the time to create your own perception, you naturally adopt one that's already been established. When ESPN says that Darren McFadden is the next Adrian Peterson, there's a large percentage of viewers who recite the same line to their buddies next time they're talking football. Deangelo Hall is an immensely talented athlete, but he was never a top 5 CB.

++, Duck is on his game tonight.

BamaFalcon59
09-09-2008, 09:01 PM
And you've watched enough CBs to accurately rate him Top 5? Check yourself.

Then I guess noone should speak on the subject.

duckseason
09-09-2008, 09:02 PM
Have a poll and see how many people have it at their houses, and then have another poll of how many of them watched the Falcons.
Judging by the way you Falcon fans successfully slip Hall's name into discussions of elite corners, it sounds like this has already been done.

Prince 561
09-09-2008, 09:02 PM
Then I guess noone should speak on the subject.

LOL so why are you making a huge argument here and then calling out Duckseason for not watching Hall enough?

d34ng3l021
09-09-2008, 09:04 PM
And there are those who truly believed that Shaun Alexander was a top 3 RB at one point. If you don't take the time to create your own perception, you naturally adopt one that's already been established. When ESPN says that Darren McFadden is the next Adrian Peterson, there's a large percentage of viewers who recite the same line to their buddies next time they're talking football. Deangelo Hall is an immensely talented athlete, but he was never a top 5 CB.

Um. Hall has been on the most overrated lists ever since his 3rd season. Every sports writer calls him overrated.

BamaFalcon59
09-09-2008, 09:04 PM
LOL so why are you making a huge argument here and then calling out Duckseason for not watching Hall enough?

Ok. Let me put it this way. One game yesterday should not neutralize a years hard work for DHall.

Bruce Banner
09-09-2008, 09:06 PM
Ok. Let me put it this way. One game yesterday should not neutralize a years hard work for DHall.

What does hard work have to do with it?

Bruce Gradkowski works hard and he sucks ass.

BamaFalcon59
09-09-2008, 09:07 PM
Judging by the way you Falcon fans successfully slip Hall's name into discussions of elite corners, it sounds like this has already been done.

This has already been done? I said make a poll of who has NFLSunday Ticket. Few peope have it. Then I said make a poll pertaining of those who do have NFLSunday Ticket and ask who watched the Falcons on a consistent basis. Even less people.

BamaFalcon59
09-09-2008, 09:08 PM
What does hard work have to do with it?

Bruce Gradkowski works hard and he sucks ass.

Alright, some people are born ignorant so I guess I have to put it more plainly.

Hall was great last year.
He was bad last night.

The year (16 games) should overrule last night (one game) as far as reputation is concerned.

duckseason
09-09-2008, 09:12 PM
Um. Hall has been on the most overrated lists ever since his 3rd season. Every sports writer calls him overrated.

Every? Really? Including all those guys who posed the question of whether or not Oakland now had the best CB duo? A simple google search soundly refutes this statement.

The majority of top-ten corner lists I've seen have featured Hall. When you watch Falcons games, they talk about Hall. Now, there are several sportswriters and commentators who are savvy enough to know that Hall is vastly overrated, but they have been the minority. After all, you can't top overrated lists without being highly rated in the first place.

BamaFalcon59
09-09-2008, 09:16 PM
Every? Really? Including all those guys who posed the question of whether or not Oakland now had the best CB duo? A simple google search soundly refutes this statement.

The majority of top-ten corner lists I've seen have featured Hall. When you watch Falcons games, they talk about Hall. Now, there are several sportswriters and commentators who are savvy enough to know that Hall is vastly overrated, but they have been the minority. After all, you can't top overrated lists without being highly rated in the first place.

You may say I am biased but you obviously have a vandetta against Hall. He is considered overrated by most analysts, but I guess you are only referencing analysts who support your arguement.

Anyways, I am done. It is pointless to argue with someone who is so rockheaded.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-09-2008, 09:22 PM
I'd like to see a video or listen to an audio recording of that, please. The game tape speaks for itself. If the coaches thought that was on Demorrio, then it was actually on the coaches. What in the hell should Hall have done on that play other than cover Toomer? Why wouldn't Demorrio's first read be Jacobs? What happens if Demorrio is 9 yards deep in the endzone and it's not play action? Jacobs has an easy TD and Hall is over there covering air in his "zone." Both players did the right thing on that play, but Hall just let Toomer get by him.

So break it down for me. What exactly were Williams and Hall supposed to do on that play?



Yes, that's one of the points I'm making. The other Falcon DB's were so bad in coverage, that opposing QB's exploited them repeatedly. It's not that they were avoiding Hall so much as they were targeting Houston and co. Essentially, Hall was able to "hide" to one degree or another last year. The game last night against Oakland helps illustrate this.



It is correct, but I'll point out that it's not really a coverage deficiency that led to the TD. Boldin had the ball at the LOS. It was a lack of recognition and effort. Guys like Champ, Winfield, Newman...they come up and at least try to make a play. Hall gave up.

He's a talented athlete, but his skill level as a corner has yet to even approach his level of hype. When people go around claiming that he only gave up 1 TD last year, they're contributing to the widening of that gap.

Let's cut through the bs and tell it like it is. Hall is a #2 corner with loads of potential and sticks of dynamite stuck in his earholes which contribute greatly to his inability to realize said potential. Arguments to the contrary are based on fiction.


Are you sure you a remembering that Toomer play correctly? I remember it pretty clearly. Play fake, Toomer ran a slant route. Williams bit in like crazy, then tried to back-track but couldn't stop the pass to Toomer. He pointed to himself after indicated it was his fault. Or was he just pretecting DeAngelo? This is rediculous. He had a bad game and was obviously (along with the rest of the DBs) misued. He was a top 5 corner in the game in my mind, no doubt. This is coming from someone who watched about 12-13 total games last season. I wish I could comment on the Cardinals Boldin thing, but that's one I wasn't able to get a hold of.

d34ng3l021
09-09-2008, 09:27 PM
Every? Really? Including all those guys who posed the question of whether or not Oakland now had the best CB duo? A simple google search soundly refutes this statement.

The majority of top-ten corner lists I've seen have featured Hall. When you watch Falcons games, they talk about Hall. Now, there are several sportswriters and commentators who are savvy enough to know that Hall is vastly overrated, but they have been the minority. After all, you can't top overrated lists without being highly rated in the first place.

Sorry for using exaggeration to prove a point. I figured you would know based on some of your previous posts.

Nnamdi in my eyes is the best CB in the league. Its not hard to make the best CB duo if you have the best CB already. An inconsistent CB could do the trick.

If we are talking about Hall, why are you bringing in CB duos? In attempt to possible relate one argument to another? Its not working.

duckseason
09-09-2008, 09:33 PM
You may say I am biased but you obviously have a vandetta against Hall. He is considered overrated by most analysts, but I guess you are only referencing analysts who support your arguement.

Anyways, I am done. It is pointless to argue with someone who is so rockheaded.
No bias at all. Just voicing my opinion. I was a big fan of Hall coming out of VT. I told my brother that he was the next great CB. I have nothing against Hall. All I have is an opinion based on what I've seen from him since he entered the league. A very inconsistent, hotheaded, high-potential CB who cares about his own image more than that of the team.

I mean, what in the **** is he doing right here? (http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/dojorojas/colombo-vs-d-hall.gif)

d34ng3l021
09-09-2008, 09:38 PM
No bias at all. Just voicing my opinion. I was a big fan of Hall coming out of VT. I told my brother that he was the next great CB. I have nothing against Hall. All I have is an opinion based on what I've seen from him since he entered the league. A very inconsistent, hotheaded, high-potential CB who cares about his own image more than that of the team.

I mean, what in the **** is he doing right here? (http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/dojorojas/colombo-vs-d-hall.gif)

He is running toward the ball carrier. He is going too fast. He plans on jumping over the pile because he cannot stop in time. Lets try to be a little less ignorant here.

'cuse-213
09-09-2008, 09:39 PM
No bias at all. Just voicing my opinion. I was a big fan of Hall coming out of VT. I told my brother that he was the next great CB. I have nothing against Hall. All I have is an opinion based on what I've seen from him since he entered the league. A very inconsistent, hotheaded, high-potential CB who cares about his own image more than that of the team.

I mean, what in the **** is he doing right here? (http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/dojorojas/colombo-vs-d-hall.gif)

Jumping over the pile to avoid injury, and then getting cheap shotted?

Sniper
09-09-2008, 09:39 PM
Eddie Royal just beat DeAngelo Hall again.

Nothing new, carry on.

duckseason
09-09-2008, 09:43 PM
Are you sure you a remembering that Toomer play correctly? I remember it pretty clearly. Play fake, Toomer ran a slant route. Williams bit in like crazy, then tried to back-track but couldn't stop the pass to Toomer. He pointed to himself after indicated it was his fault. Or was he just pretecting DeAngelo? This is rediculous. He had a bad game and was obviously (along with the rest of the DBs) misued. He was a top 5 corner in the game in my mind, no doubt. This is coming from someone who watched about 12-13 total games last season. I wish I could comment on the Cardinals Boldin thing, but that's one I wasn't able to get a hold of.

Yep. That's the play. Demorrio expectedly bit on the fake but there's no way in hell he alone should be responsible for Toomer in the back of the endzone. Like I said, what happens if that's not play action but rather a run through the hole Demorrio vacated to unnecessarily aid Hall in covering Toomer? Or is Hall really so incapable of covering a guy like Toomer that he needs help from a LB?

Now, had there been something going on over in the right-flat that Deangelo should have attended to, then yeah I can see how it would be Demorrio's fault if that was indeed his zone and Toomer had been left alone. But that wasn't the case. Hall got beat, plain and simple.

Draft King
09-09-2008, 09:47 PM
When Peyton has a bad game not everybody jumps on him and calls him overrated. Although DeAngelo has not proved nearly as much as Manning, I think we should give him the benifit of the doubt here. He needs to be used more often in man coverage, and sometimes lets his emotions get the best of him. He needs to mature, which is exactly why the Falcons traded him actually.

Draft King
09-09-2008, 09:48 PM
Also, I don't understand that GIF??? What does that prove other than Marc Columbo gave him a cheap shot??

duckseason
09-09-2008, 09:48 PM
He is running toward the ball carrier. He is going too fast. He plans on jumping over the pile because he cannot stop in time. Lets try to be a little less ignorant here.

I guess that's one way to see it. Looks to me like he's about to serve a late hit judging by the way he could easily stop and almost is, but chooses to accelerate and Barber is directly in the path of his jump. I won't argue it though. Your scenario is just as possible as mine, and I hadn't even thought of it.

duckseason
09-09-2008, 10:09 PM
Let's not get stuck on the periphery though. I was just using that to illustrate Hall's lack of sense. If I had gifs or videos of all the other examples, I'd post those too. We saw a bit of it last night. My point remains, regardless of your interpretation of the Colombo encounter.

CT Bronco Fan
09-09-2008, 11:00 PM
Tim Ryan from NFL network said it best

"Eddie, you are the only person in the world who has actually shut up DeAngelo Hall."

d34ng3l021
09-09-2008, 11:12 PM
Also, Rob Ryan was a dumbass. A lot of Royal's stuff game against a zone. Hall is TERRIBLE in zone play. Man him up and he is bound to make some of the same mental errors, but he is a lot more consistent and a better player.

Bruce Banner
09-09-2008, 11:19 PM
Also, Rob Ryan was a dumbass. A lot of Royal's stuff game against a zone. Hall is TERRIBLE in zone play. Man him up and he is bound to make some of the same mental errors, but he is a lot more consistent and a better player.

Why are you even defending a guy who threw your team under the bus?

BamaFalcon59
09-09-2008, 11:20 PM
Why are you even defending a guy who threw your team under the bus?

Because we know he is a good player, or was for us at least.

d34ng3l021
09-09-2008, 11:38 PM
Why are you even defending a guy who threw your team under the bus?

My username is dedicated to him. He was definitely my favorite player for a couple of years when he was with us. Him throwing the organization under the bus was kind of understandable. A lot of guys complained under Petrino, including Grady Jackson and Alge Crumpler. Petrino was a little *****.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-10-2008, 04:59 AM
Yep. That's the play. Demorrio expectedly bit on the fake but there's no way in hell he alone should be responsible for Toomer in the back of the endzone. Like I said, what happens if that's not play action but rather a run through the hole Demorrio vacated to unnecessarily aid Hall in covering Toomer? Or is Hall really so incapable of covering a guy like Toomer that he needs help from a LB?

Now, had there been something going on over in the right-flat that Deangelo should have attended to, then yeah I can see how it would be Demorrio's fault if that was indeed his zone and Toomer had been left alone. But that wasn't the case. Hall got beat, plain and simple.


Hall didn't need Williams help. It's not unheard of to drop a linebacker back to defend against the pass. Especially one with Demorrio's skill set. I'm not even sure how you could think Hall got beat. Hall didn't even follow up with Toomer, he stayed in his area and was obviously waiting for another responsibility. Williams dropped back, indicating that there was some play in which he was in coverage, Toomer caught the ball, and then Williams owned up to ******* up.

BamaFalcon59
09-10-2008, 07:07 AM
We are not homers. He is not on our team. He dissed our team. He was good when he played for us. It is not that hard to comprehend.

Draft King
09-10-2008, 08:41 AM
this is a fantastically entertaining thread.

for everything duckseason argues, there are 32 falcons fans who respond with "you're wrong" or "you didn't watch them" or "i watched 12 whole gamez!!!" i don't think i've ever seen such a weird case of blatant "homerism". i mean, even raiders fans aren't defending the idiot.

I said none of those things, and you don't like him because you're a Broncos fan. You also probably still believe Champ > Nnamdi.

CC.SD
09-10-2008, 09:16 AM
this is a fantastically entertaining thread.

for everything duckseason argues, there are 32 falcons fans who respond with "you're wrong" or "you didn't watch them" or "i watched 12 whole gamez!!!" i don't think i've ever seen such a weird case of blatant "homerism". i mean, even raiders fans aren't defending the idiot.

and yet, there are still Raider fans defending Randy Moss. The NFL's a funny thing.

D-Rod
09-10-2008, 10:43 AM
Kiffin wanted to fire Rob to.Hes easily the worst DC in the league.

Er, wasn't Rob Ryan being praised as one of the best DCs in the league for the past couple of years? Obviously he gets a lot of surname-kudos, but he seems to have done a pretty good job up til last game.

abaddon41_80
09-10-2008, 10:47 AM
I said none of those things, and you don't like him because you're a Broncos fan. You also probably still believe Champ > Nnamdi.

I'm not a Broncos fan and I still think Bailey is better Asomugha >.>

duckseason
09-10-2008, 12:38 PM
Hall didn't need Williams help. It's not unheard of to drop a linebacker back to defend against the pass. Especially one with Demorrio's skill set. I'm not even sure how you could think Hall got beat. Hall didn't even follow up with Toomer, he stayed in his area and was obviously waiting for another responsibility. Williams dropped back, indicating that there was some play in which he was in coverage, Toomer caught the ball, and then Williams owned up to ******* up.

That is either an outright lie or you just altered your memory to protect your inflated image of Hall.

I'll say it again- go watch the damn play (http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d8035351c). It's 20 seconds in.

As you can see, Hall lines up directly across from Toomer, and even follows him as he slides to the inside before the snap. He appears to be in man coverage.

As the ball is snapped, Hall's first steps are backward and toward the inside, mirroring Toomer while his eyes are on Eli. He does this immediately and there is absolutely no way in hell anybody could interpret these movements as "staying in his area." Rather than break hard with Toomer, he kind of handchecks him and acts surprised when Eli throws it. It's too late. His poor coverage technique and lack of effort allows a TD.

With Williams, his first 4 steps immediately following the snap are forward and to his left. He was smartly plugging a gaping hole as he thought Eli might hand it off to Jacobs. It's not until Eli actually throws the ball when Demorrio takes his first step or two backward and tries to swipe at the ball as it flies over his head.

And if that's his zone, how does he decide between Jacobs and Toomer anyway? If Hall had blanketed Toomer, Jacobs could have continued forward into the middle of the endzone as Eli waited for the play to develop further, where Demorrio would presumably be responsible for both he and Toomer? What exactly was Hall responsible for on that particular play? Polishing and protecting his image?

CC.SD
09-10-2008, 01:09 PM
I'm not a Broncos fan and I still think Bailey is better Asomugha >.>

Me too, although I'm not sure how much longer Champ can keep the title. This season will determine a lot IMO.

Aso won't be a Raider next year in all likelihood; with even a marginal supporting front 7, he could be pretty darn magical.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-10-2008, 01:46 PM
I also still think Champ is better. He has a terrible defensive line other than Dumervil, no run defense, and terrible safeties yet still dominates. Aso can pass him though soon.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-10-2008, 02:33 PM
this is a fantastically entertaining thread.

for everything duckseason argues, there are 32 falcons fans who respond with "you're wrong" or "you didn't watch them" or "i watched 12 whole gamez!!!" i don't think i've ever seen such a weird case of blatant "homerism". i mean, even raiders fans aren't defending the idiot.


You got it buddy. Blatant homerism. Considering he doesn't play for my favorite team, and left my team on bad terms. I should have nothing for hatred for him, but I can actually hold an objective opinion. Yeah, how dare we point out that we are people who have seen him on a week by week basis, so we've seen more of his playing time then most on this board. Where do we come off?

And to duckseason with the clip. I'm not sure what was going on. I don't call the plays. I specifically remember it though, even seeing the clip. I was wrong in the account of Hall following him. I thought he ditched him for another responsibility. My mistake. However, the replay was shown afterwards, with Williams indicated it was his fault. I'm not sure why he'd take the blame for something that isn't on him.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-10-2008, 02:46 PM
clearly objective when you're blatantly and repeatedly mis-representing a play duck has posted a few times. clearly seeing him on a week by week basis is meaningful when a cowboys fan (iirc) has a better recollection of the falcons plays than you do. thanks for proving your own point. :rolleyes:


Mis-representing a play? I knew exactly what play he was talking about, and what happened except one part of that play. I mean honestly, how can this homerism continue? How can I possibly mistake one part of one play last year?

ATLDirtyBirds
09-10-2008, 03:00 PM
boy double-speak is fun. it seems pretty bloody obvious to anyone not attempting to make up excuses.


And it's also pretty obvious duckseason said, "and where was Hall on that play", and asked about the responsibility of Williams, when in all honesty, I do not know. He doesn't know. You don't know. None of us where inside the huddle. I just find it pretty hard to imagine Williams bites in, then creeps back back, leaps, can't make a play. Then afterwards points to himself, indicated it was his mistake, when in actually wasn't. Even after seeing the replay. Boley is coming in on a blitz. Brooking engaged with the full back. Milloy went for Jacobs. I highly doubt Demorrio's responsibility is to stand there. If I had to guess, it's that he had middle of the field coverage responsibility and Hall was expecting help, which is why he didn't really engage in with Toomer.

duckseason
09-10-2008, 03:13 PM
Mis-representing a play? I knew exactly what play he was talking about, and what happened except one part of that play. I mean honestly, how can this homerism continue? How can I possibly mistake one part of one play last year?
You misrepresented the entire play as it relates to Hall and Williams, not just one part.

duckseason
09-10-2008, 03:14 PM
And it's also pretty obvious duckseason said, "and where was Hall on that play", and asked about the responsibility of Williams, when in all honesty, I do not know. He doesn't know. You don't know. None of us where inside the huddle. I just find it pretty hard to imagine Williams bites in, then creeps back back, leaps, can't make a play. Then afterwards points to himself, indicated it was his mistake, when in actually wasn't. Even after seeing the replay. Boley is coming in on a blitz. Brooking engaged with the full back. Milloy went for Jacobs. I highly doubt Demorrio's responsibility is to stand there. If I had to guess, it's that he had middle of the field coverage responsibility and Hall was expecting help, which is why he didn't really engage in with Toomer.

So, since no outsider will ever know what's what while watching a football game, doesn't it seem odd that Falcons fans would vehemently defend the claim that Hall gave up just one TD last year? Since we weren't in the huddle, we can't argue for either side, now can we?

And Demorrio didn't just stand there. He bit on the fake handoff and then recognized pass and reacted accordingly. To me, it looked like he had multiple reads on that play, like most defenders do.

The bottom line is that Deangelo Hall lined up directly across from Toomer, and proceeded to mirror him as though in man coverage. If he doesn't get credit for giving up a TD in this instance, nobody ever should.

bored of education
09-10-2008, 03:15 PM
All I know Eddie royal beat him like a rented mule or beat him like a 13 year old red headed step child.

oldLibid21
09-10-2008, 03:23 PM
Hey, I already said the trade is fine if Baker holds up like he has. Get off my back.

I ain't on your back bro... I'm just saying your arguments are somewhat ridiculous, and in this topic, I believe you said you'd stop arguing... what are you still doing in this thread? ;)

ATLDirtyBirds
09-10-2008, 03:26 PM
You misrepresented the entire play as it relates to Hall and Williams, not just one part.

. Play fake, Toomer ran a slant route. Williams bit in like crazy, then tried to back-track but couldn't stop the pass to Toomer


How exactly? The part that I was mistaken on is I thought that DeAngelo was with Toomer, but then dropped off of him.

duckseason
09-10-2008, 03:31 PM
How exactly? The part that I was mistaken on is I thought that DeAngelo was with Toomer, but then dropped off of him.

Hall didn't even follow up with Toomer, he stayed in his area and was obviously waiting for another responsibility. Williams dropped back, indicating that there was some play in which he was in coverage, Toomer caught the ball, and then Williams owned up to ******* up.

Looks like you have multiple recollections of what happened.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-10-2008, 03:37 PM
So, since no outsider will ever know what's what while watching a football game, doesn't it seem odd that Falcons fans would vehemently defend the claim that Hall gave up just one TD last year? Since we weren't in the huddle, we can't argue for either side, now can we?

And Demorrio didn't just stand there. He bit on the fake handoff and then recognized pass and reacted accordingly. To me, it looked like he had multiple reads on that play, like most defenders do.

The bottom line is that Deangelo Hall lined up directly across from Toomer, and proceeded to mirror him as though in man coverage. If he doesn't get credit for giving up a TD in this instance, nobody ever should.


My comments weren't directed towards you in the top part, it was to njx calling us fans homers. We've seen as much and probably more then anyone on this fourm, and he's no longer apart of our team, so I failed to see how adding in what we've seen is homerism.

And the one TD, comes from man coverage TD. I will admit, Hall isn't that good as a zone guy. If he's just dropping back 8 yards though, and someone runs out of his zone and scores a TD, do you count on him? I wouldn't. It is relevant that he isn't a complete corner in the respect that he isn't as good in zone though.

And D'Mo did have to make more then one read, most of the time a linebacker does (pass or run). He bit in on the run, which is on him, then we all know what goes on from there. We can keep going, but I highly doubt either one of us will change our opinion. I still think he must have had some kind of middle of the field coverage responsibility to be blaming himself (and it would be just seeing as the pass was right around the middle). And you have your thoughts about Hall's responsiblility, and they are completely valid.

Jughead10
09-10-2008, 03:41 PM
Guys, guys, relax. You are using a bad example. The Giants and Toomer are just too good. How can we expect one man (Hall) or even two men (Hall and Williams) to cover Toomer when in a playoff game three Cowboys couldn't even cover, let alone tackle Toomer.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-10-2008, 03:50 PM
so you assume that he was supposedly doing whatever you will help your argument, instead of looking at the play. seems pretty clear to me he was looking at run responsibility. but gosh. i wasn't in the huddle. maybe deangelo didn't actually get repeatedly beat by royal but was really expecting thomas howard to cover him? who knows, i mean, none of us were in the huddle. in fact, i bet hall is the best corner ever, we just don't know his responsibilities when he gets beat. perfectly reasonable explanation. or something.



i too find it hard to believe that a linebacker playing the run would bite in on a play fake. never seen that happen when the cornerback was supposedly in man.



wait though, i thought we'd just agreed we can't know what was going on because we weren't in the huddle? how can you possibly know he was taking responsibility when he pointed at himself? were you in his head? maybe he was telling hall that if he'd been in man, he would've taken the ball back for 6.



and gosh, it looks like he was playing the run. weird. we agree his responsibility wasn't to stand there, however you somehow think that WAS hall's responsibility.



:rolleyes:


I'm not denying Royal beat him up. I think that they didn't play agressive enough with two big-time man to man corners though.

And the rest is an attempt to be funny with mockery. Clever. Anyway, I'd assume that pointing at yourself would indicate you did something wrong as that is what most players do. Seeing as DeMorrio is well known in Atlanta for biting on plays and overpursuing, it's pretty typical to see him make mistakes like this, which is why I think he had coverage responsibilities. Other then the pointing thing. Also the fact that we liked to drop him back into coverage a good amount of the time to use his speed, and bring Milloy up to play the run (like he did there) because that's his bread and butter. And if he did have middle coverage responsibilities, Hall would have protected the outside if Toomer ran a quick out, or come back or some kind of man play. A slant wouldn't be in that.

BlindSite
09-10-2008, 05:06 PM
How can you guys not realise how seriously pointless it is to argue over one play during the course of a season?

DeAngelo Hall, when on his game is very, very talented, he's strong and stout at the point of attack, can stick to a receiver like glue and fights each and every route for the best position and the ball.

He's the only cornerback in the NFL that's i've ever seen who's been able to give Steve Smith a proper battle one on one, granted Smith hasn't played against Baily or Aso in a while or at all, so I can't comment on people you might consider better cover corners. But, DeAngelo gave it one heck of a go every time and that's pretty impressive.

It shows what he can do, not necessarily what he'll bring every week.

CC.SD
09-10-2008, 06:00 PM
it's cool though. at least hall can cover steve smith. he's almost as good as eddie royal.

Way to just toss all your credit out the window dude.

Royal>>>>>>>>>>>>Smitty

BlindSite
09-10-2008, 06:06 PM
yippee. i'm sure that was reassuring to oakland when randy moss caught 7 balls for 116 yards and two touchdowns in game 17 on 2005. "gosh, look how awesome he COULD be if he wasn't so busy not trying and sucking in the meantime! what a great player!" :rolleyes:

further, were you to actually read any part of this thread, this has little to do with arguing about one play and more to do with calling the falcons fans who are still in love with hall a bunch of "homers" (on my part) and telling one falcons fan that hall did NOT just give up one touchdown (as he asserted). but hey, one can only expect so much when there's a great big reply button just waiting for an ill thought out reply.

it's cool though. at least hall can cover steve smith. he's almost as good as eddie royal.

My point is, that Hall can cover elite receivers. He has to be motivated to do it and he has to be on his best game to do it. That's what I was getting at, its neither a praise, nor really a criticism of Hall, it is what it is. I'm stating he can do good things on the field when he wants to. Take from that what you will.

He has great potential, whether he realises it is up to him. Not many people will disagree with that.

Don't insult me for it, it makes you sound like an ass bag.

BlindSite
09-10-2008, 06:53 PM
Wow, way to miss the point, Hall has been a solid player now for a while, unless you're going to call him a bust like Leaf and Clayton?

Hall hasn't vanished, he had one bad game where his defensive line did absolutely nothing for him, even Champ Bailey can't cover a receiver without help from the front seven.

All that's happening in this thread is a player who at times can be a very good cover corner, on the verge of being a great cover corner is being criticized because he was beaten on a night when his line was giving a no pass rush and he was clearly unmotivated.

You say I need to make better arguments than saying that in the past I've personally watched him cover some of the NFL's best? How about you come up with something better to the contrary other than "Ryan Leaf looked good once"

Leaf didn't make it to two probowls and leaf was never able to best probowl calibre players like Hall has.

Besides all of this talk the position of cornerback is bound to have its ups and downs because the success is predicated on a lot of other factors beyond the players control.

CC.SD
09-10-2008, 07:01 PM
Why has there been so much Leaf mentioning lately, every time I read his name it rips a fresh gash in my heart.

Bruce Banner
09-10-2008, 07:03 PM
In conclusion.

Hall is a good and sometimes great corner that can excel in both zone and man coverage.

He is severely overrated by the majority of the media and some fans.

His common mental lapses remove the possibility of him being a consistently great corner.

doingthisinsteadofwork
09-10-2008, 07:09 PM
Er, wasn't Rob Ryan being praised as one of the best DCs in the league for the past couple of years? Obviously he gets a lot of surname-kudos, but he seems to have done a pretty good job up til last game.
Hes had one good year out of 4,5 if you count this year.06 Our defense was good.But other than that its been a joke.

BlindSite
09-10-2008, 08:32 PM
In conclusion.

Hall is a good and sometimes great corner that can excel in both zone and man coverage.

He is severely overrated by the majority of the media and some fans.

His common mental lapses remove the possibility of him being a consistently great corner.

which is pretty much what I've been saying all along.

Ness
09-10-2008, 08:40 PM
Dude, just stop. Especially with the stats. If you watched him last year you know he was amazing. Stats for corners are misleading.

I've watched enough. Every time I've seen Hall play he was frequently targeted and not very impressive. If he's so good why is he targeted so much?

When the Raiders and 49ers had joined practices in the summmer, Hall was getting schooled by Josh Morgan all day.

Shiver
09-10-2008, 09:57 PM
This is why I was (one of?) the only Falcons' fan who wasn't crying that the team got rid of DeAngelo Hall. He was the best corner on our team, unfortunately we consistently had a bottom of the barrel pass defense. I didn't mind having him as a starter, but when he started having ego trips and demanding top tier corner money I was fed up with him. Having Eddie Royal abuse him brought me much satisfaction.

CC.SD
09-11-2008, 03:32 AM
I've watched enough. Every time I've seen Hall play he was frequently targeted and not very impressive. If he's so good why is he targeted so much?

When the Raiders and 49ers had joined practices in the summmer, Hall was getting schooled by Josh Morgan all day.

Maybe he's allergic to rookies.

bigbluedefense
09-11-2008, 05:14 AM
jumping to week 1 conclusions are awesome.

BamaFalcon59
09-11-2008, 07:13 AM
jumping to week 1 conclusions are awesome.

Ditto. I agree with Bruce Bannner's most recent post, except being overrated. I would say he is either overrated or underrated, depending on who you talk to.

Ness
09-11-2008, 01:11 PM
jumping to week 1 conclusions are awesome.

Except Hall has been displaying the same inconsistency for five years now. I wouldn't say that is jumping to a conclusion.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-12-2008, 12:38 AM
Just to make a point.

2007 stats from Football Outsiders...

DeAngelo Hall - Targeted 92 times (21% of pass plays) / Success Rate 52% / Average Yards Gained 7.2 / 16 passes defended / 5 passes intercepted

Some other notable corners...

Ken Lucas - Targeted 82 times (18% of pass plays) / Success Rate 52% / Average Yards Gained 7.6 / 4 passes defended / 1 passes intercepted

Al Harris - Targeted 74 times (17% of pass plays) / Success Rate 40% / Average Yards Gained 9.4 / 8 passes defended / 2 passes intercepted

Nate Clements - Targeted 109 times (24% of pass plays) / Success Rate 50% / Average Yards Gained 5.4 / 6 passes defended / 2 interception

What conclusions can you draw from this? Hall was targeted more than your typical number one corner is and this is probably because teams knew, that while he played the ball well, he was apt to go for the big play and as a result give up the big play. Hall profiles a bit like a younger and way more physical Dre Bly, which may not be the most ringing endorsement, but certainly isn't terrible. One would hope that he takes a hint from Asomugha's example, but even if he doesn't Hall at his best is a really quality corner.

There's not much defending how he looked against Denver, but there's not much defending much of how that defense played. Rob Ryan called a horrible game and Denver knew early on that Hall was the guy to pick on.

Ness
09-12-2008, 01:35 AM
Off topic, but Al Harris was the least deserving Pro Bowler in 2007.

TimD
09-12-2008, 01:58 AM
You may say I am biased but you obviously have a vandetta against Hall. He is considered overrated by most analysts, but I guess you are only referencing analysts who support your arguement.

Anyways, I am done. It is pointless to argue with someone who is so rockheaded.

GO BAMA FALCSON. ive got your back, im on your side my man

Paranoidmoonduck
09-12-2008, 02:23 AM
Off topic, but Al Harris was the least deserving Pro Bowler in 2007.

Least deserving Pro Bowler I've ever seen.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-12-2008, 05:03 AM
Just to make a point.

2007 stats from Football Outsiders...

DeAngelo Hall - Targeted 92 times (21% of pass plays) / Success Rate 52% / Average Yards Gained 7.2 / 16 passes defended / 5 passes intercepted

Some other notable corners...

Ken Lucas - Targeted 82 times (18% of pass plays) / Success Rate 52% / Average Yards Gained 7.6 / 4 passes defended / 1 passes intercepted

Al Harris - Targeted 74 times (17% of pass plays) / Success Rate 40% / Average Yards Gained 9.4 / 8 passes defended / 2 passes intercepted

Nate Clements - Targeted 109 times (24% of pass plays) / Success Rate 50% / Average Yards Gained 5.4 / 6 passes defended / 2 interception

What conclusions can you draw from this? Hall was targeted more than your typical number one corner is and this is probably because teams knew, that while he played the ball well, he was apt to go for the big play and as a result give up the big play. Hall profiles a bit like a younger and way more physical Dre Bly, which may not be the most ringing endorsement, but certainly isn't terrible. One would hope that he takes a hint from Asomugha's example, but even if he doesn't Hall at his best is a really quality corner.

There's not much defending how he looked against Denver, but there's not much defending much of how that defense played. Rob Ryan called a horrible game and Denver knew early on that Hall was the guy to pick on.

Just out of curosity, what is the stats for Chris Houston? I've seen stats like these where Hall was targeted more then him, and that's just flat out wrong. Houston got abused constantly every game.

iloxygenil
09-12-2008, 08:25 AM
pretty sure it was a sluggo route but yeah he did burn him

Slant and go = Sluggo...

Prince 561
09-12-2008, 08:41 AM
Least deserving Pro Bowler I've ever seen.

Really? Who would you have put over him? Harris looked pretty good last year but I think Woodson was the better of the two.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-12-2008, 01:36 PM
Really? Who would you have put over him? Harris looked pretty good last year but I think Woodson was the better of the two.

Woodson was one of the very best corners last year while Al Harris was statistically the worst cornerback to start all 16 games. Considering that neither Woodson nor Nnamdi Asomugha made the Pro Bowl but Al Harris did is utterly flabergasting.

Just out of curosity, what is the stats for Chris Houston? I've seen stats like these where Hall was targeted more then him, and that's just flat out wrong. Houston got abused constantly every game.

Chris Houston - Targeted 78 times (17% of pass plays) / Success Rate 48% / Average Yards Gained 9.4 / 8 passes defended / 0 passes intercepted

On the surface, Houston was targeted less, but he played 23 less snaps than Hall did.

d34ng3l021
09-12-2008, 01:46 PM
Chris Houston - Targeted 78 times (17% of pass plays) / Success Rate 48% / Average Yards Gained 9.4 / 8 passes defended / 0 passes intercepted

On the surface, Houston was targeted less, but he played 23 less snaps than Hall did.

Thats makes no sense with the games we watched last year. Thats weird.

Prince 561
09-12-2008, 01:46 PM
Woodson was one of the very best corners last year while Al Harris was statistically the worst cornerback to start all 16 games. Considering that neither Woodson nor Nnamdi Asomugha made the Pro Bowl but Al Harris did is utterly flabergasting.

Harris is asked to cover #1 receivers every week on an island. In today's NFL, you're going to get burned plenty playing that style, especially since Green Bay barely blitzes. I definitely agree that Aso and Woodson were more deserving, but there have been much bigger travesties in the Pro Bowl. I think it was one of those "You should already be a Pro Bowl player so we'll just give it to you this year" type of things.

If somebody asked you if Harris was a Pro-Bowl corner I'm sure you would agree that his play has been at that level for some time.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-12-2008, 02:17 PM
Thats makes no sense with the games we watched last year. Thats weird.

Well, Houston's numbers are worse across the board than Hall's except in number of times targeted, and Hall played a ton of snaps last year. So I think it makes some sense.

If somebody asked you if Harris was a Pro-Bowl corner I'm sure you would agree that his play has been at that level for some time.

Well he wasn't anywhere close to that level last year. As far as I am aware, the Packers do the exact same thing the Raiders do, which is keep a corner attached to a side and let the offensive rotate the wide receivers as they wish. Nnamdi Asomugha covered #1 wide receivers on an island all last year and was targeted 36 times less than Harris and succeeded considerably more with a worse pass rush.

Personally, I think the Pro Bowl should include people based on the merit of the season it is during.

Prince 561
09-12-2008, 02:21 PM
Well, Houston's numbers are worse across the board than Hall's except in number of times targeted, and Hall played a ton of snaps last year. So I think it makes some sense.



Well he wasn't anywhere close to that level last year. As far as I am aware, the Packers do the exact same thing the Raiders do, which is keep a corner attached to a side and let the offensive rotate the wide receivers as they wish. Nnamdi Asomugha covered #1 wide receivers on an island all last year and was targeted 36 times less than Harris and succeeded considerably more with a worse pass rush.

Personally, I think the Pro Bowl should include people based on the merit of the season it is during.

Harris played excellent football last season. People just remember the playoffs when Plaxico (an elite WR) beat him many times on an island. Like I said, Aso is a better player but that's just one guy in the league. I don't really get how you're so high on Woodson when Harris was almost as good last season.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-12-2008, 07:01 PM
Thats makes no sense with the games we watched last year. Thats weird.


That's why I asked to see. Watching the games, I can't believe those stats are right. I mean how many times did we see Houston chasing a WR, only to not be able to make a play on the ball for catch? Certainly more then we did with DeAngelo.

BamaFalcon59
09-12-2008, 07:13 PM
That's why I asked to see. Watching the games, I can't believe those stats are right. I mean how many times did we see Houston chasing a WR, only to not be able to make a play on the ball for catch? Certainly more then we did with DeAngelo.

I know Houston was abused last year. Hall was not. Hall had average/ bad games against Indianapolis and New York. He let up a touchdown in the Tampa Bay game but that was the only catch he allowed.

Houston had bad games week in and week out. Torry Holt and Anquan Boldin combined to torch him for like 400 yards.

Cunningham
09-12-2008, 07:23 PM
Harris played excellent football last season. People just remember the playoffs when Plaxico (an elite WR) beat him many times on an island. Like I said, Aso is a better player but that's just one guy in the league. I don't really get how you're so high on Woodson when Harris was almost as good last season.
last season harris was rated among the leagues worst in success rate and yards per pass while woodson was among the best in the both categories

scottyboy
09-12-2008, 07:31 PM
I know Houston was abused last year. Hall was not. Hall had average/ bad games against Indianapolis and New York. He let up a touchdown in the Tampa Bay game but that was the only catch he allowed.

Houston had bad games week in and week out. Torry Holt and Anquan Boldin combined to torch him for like 400 yards.

you mean elite WR's such as Holt and Boldin torched a raw rookie? NO WAY!

doingthisinsteadofwork
09-12-2008, 07:32 PM
I'm just curious as to why Hall wasnt covering Holt.

BamaFalcon59
09-12-2008, 07:37 PM
I'm just curious as to why Hall wasnt covering Holt.

Hall is the left field corner. Houston is the right field corner.

BamaFalcon59
09-12-2008, 07:42 PM
you mean elite WR's such as Holt and Boldin torched a raw rookie? NO WAY!

Holt had 135, Boldin had 165. That's 300 yards. Just take my word for it, Houston was not good last year, and didn't show many signs of coming on. He stays on his guy great, but he is horrible when the ball is in the air.

bigbluedefense
09-13-2008, 10:59 AM
or season 5, but i'll assume you didn't actually think he was a rookie. or that you could quote any post where anyone has actually passed judgement on hall solely on one game.

my point is, even with this performance (which is superficially worse than it really was), he can potentially go out and dominate the rest of the season and wind up having a great year. its too early to pass any judgement on him just yet. he missed most if not all of the PS, and is learning a new system with new teammates. it doesn't happen overnight.

and ive said all along, Hall is one of the best man CBs in the game, but he's not built for zone. they ran way too much zone.

i'll say this, if for the rest of the season Rob Ryan uses his brain and lets his secondary play press man and throw some blitzes at the qb, and Hall is still getting torched, then I'll admit i am wrong about Hall. But until then, Im not going to cast him off as a bad CB, especially when he played like arguably the 2nd best CB in the league last year. Anyone who followed Hall last year knows how well he played in Zimmer's man coverage scheme. He was as shutdown as they come.

So if recent history is any indication of the future (i know its not, but just for argument sake), id expect Hall to bounce back rather then this become a season long trend for him.

Unless Ryan continues to be an idiot.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-13-2008, 07:11 PM
Harris played excellent football last season. People just remember the playoffs when Plaxico (an elite WR) beat him many times on an island. Like I said, Aso is a better player but that's just one guy in the league. I don't really get how you're so high on Woodson when Harris was almost as good last season.

Way to ignore the stats I posted.

Charles Woodson - Targeted 62 times (16% of pass plays) / 58% success rate (8th in the NFL) / Average Yards Gained 7.7 / 10 passes defended / 4 passes intercepted

Al Harris - Targeted 74 times (17% of pass plays) / 40% success rate (74th in the NFL) / Average Yards Gained 9.4 / 8 passes defended / 2 passes intercepted

That's not a slight difference. That's a huge difference. Harris was, for all intents and purposes, one of the very worst cornerbacks to start all 16 games of the regular season. This has nothing to do with the game he played against Plaxico Burress and everything to do with that fact that he mostly stunk last season.

NIN1984
09-13-2008, 07:19 PM
I wonder if we can trade Hall for Fabian Washington?

doingthisinsteadofwork
09-13-2008, 08:03 PM
Unfortunately the Ravens arent as stupid as Al is.

LonghornsLegend
09-13-2008, 08:14 PM
Harris played excellent football last season. People just remember the playoffs when Plaxico (an elite WR) beat him many times on an island. Like I said, Aso is a better player but that's just one guy in the league. I don't really get how you're so high on Woodson when Harris was almost as good last season.

Is Patrick Crayton an elite WR? He beat Al Harris in man to man coverage like a dirty rug last year when Dallas faced Green Bay...That's not the only time I watched him get abused last year, and no matter how elite Plax may be it doesn't make any sense for a supposed elite corner to get abused the way he did by Plaxico, and these weren't the only 2 times I saw him get torn apart...His play was hardly consistent and nowhere near that of an top tiered corner.

johnstonolb
09-13-2008, 09:21 PM
What Roy Williams is to safeties -- De Angelo is to CB.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-13-2008, 09:23 PM
What Roy Williams is to safeties -- De Angelo is to CB.


Well, that is a completely and utter ridiculous statement.

BamaFalcon59
09-13-2008, 09:39 PM
Yes, it was.

LonghornsLegend
09-13-2008, 09:43 PM
edit: nvm wrong thread.

Prince 561
09-14-2008, 06:08 AM
Way to ignore the stats I posted.

Charles Woodson - Targeted 62 times (16% of pass plays) / 58% success rate (8th in the NFL) / Average Yards Gained 7.7 / 10 passes defended / 4 passes intercepted

Al Harris - Targeted 74 times (17% of pass plays) / 40% success rate (74th in the NFL) / Average Yards Gained 9.4 / 8 passes defended / 2 passes intercepted

That's not a slight difference. That's a huge difference. Harris was, for all intents and purposes, one of the very worst cornerbacks to start all 16 games of the regular season. This has nothing to do with the game he played against Plaxico Burress and everything to do with that fact that he mostly stunk last season.

I'll have to disagree. Where are you getting these statistics by the way?

Mr.Regular
09-14-2008, 08:00 AM
I'll have to disagree. Where are you getting these statistics by the way?
Woodson was undoubtedly better than Harris last year. Woodson had a fantastic season while Harris seemed to lose a step... but saying Al was one of the worst starting corners is crazy.

Prince 561
09-14-2008, 08:46 AM
Woodson was undoubtedly better than Harris last year. Woodson had a fantastic season while Harris seemed to lose a step... but saying Al was one of the worst starting corners is crazy.

I agree. Woodson was better, but Harris was in no way a bad player.

Addict
09-14-2008, 09:32 AM
I'll have to disagree. Where are you getting these statistics by the way?

if the stats are legit, and I assume they are, then there is nothing left to argue, sir.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-14-2008, 11:07 AM
I'll have to disagree. Where are you getting these statistics by the way?

Football Outsiders' stat dictionary of the 2007 season: Football Prospectus.

Unless you provide some proof to your disagreement you have no ground to stand on.

Prince 561
09-14-2008, 11:09 AM
Football Outsiders' stat dictionary of the 2007 season: Football Prospectus.

Unless you provide some proof to your disagreement you have no ground to stand on.

I watched every game? Name 10 corners in the NFC who are better than Harris.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-14-2008, 11:21 AM
I watched every game? Name 10 corners in the NFC who are better than Harris.

Then what you saw obviously doesn't jive with what the stat trackers saw. Well, let's just ignore that 73 NFL corners had better success rates than Harris last year.

In no particular order...

Ken Lucas
Marcus Trufant
Terrance Newman
Nate Clements
Mike McKenzie
Sheldon Brown
Ronde Barber
Shawn Springs
Charles Woodson
Asante Samuel

That's not even counting all the corners who had better 2007's statistically, like Richard Marshall, Charles Tillman, Leigh Bodden, Roderick Hood, Antoine Winfield, and Sam Madison.

In fact, the only other fairly well thought of NFC corner I could find that had a worse season than Harris was Lito Sheppard.

Prince 561
09-14-2008, 11:28 AM
Then what you saw obviously doesn't jive with what the stat trackers saw. Well, let's just ignore that 73 NFL corners had better success rates than Harris last year.

In no particular order...

Ken Lucas
Marcus Trufant
Terrance Newman
Nate Clements
Mike McKenzie
Sheldon Brown
Ronde Barber
Shawn Springs
Charles Woodson
Asante Samuel

That's not even counting all the corners who had better 2007's statistically, like Richard Marshall, Charles Tillman, Leigh Bodden, Roderick Hood, Antoine Winfield, and Sam Madison.

In fact, the only other fairly well thought of NFC corner I could find that had a worse season than Harris was Lito Sheppard.

Are you kidding me? Mike McKenzie? Shawn Springs? Do you watch football?

MetSox17
09-14-2008, 11:38 AM
Are you kidding me? Mike McKenzie? Shawn Springs? Do you watch football?

Duh. Stats mean everything and are the only valuable source of an argument.

/Sarcasm.

P-L
09-14-2008, 11:55 AM
The game that sticks out to me was the Thanksgiving game against the Lions. We was abused badly by Roy Williams all game. Unfortunately, that was the game that Mike Martz tried to force the ball to Calvin Johnson. Calvin was Jon Kitna's first and only read on most passing plays, so we couldn't take advantage of the horrible coverage by Harris. In the middle of the game, Harris actually asked Roy why the Lions weren't throwing to his side more.

BamaFalcon59
09-14-2008, 11:58 AM
Are you kidding me? Mike McKenzie? Shawn Springs? Do you watch football?

McKenzie was great last year. According to Saints fans, he only gave up one touchdown (to Roddy White).

Paranoidmoonduck
09-14-2008, 12:15 PM
McKenzie was great last year. According to Saints fans, he only gave up one touchdown (to Roddy White).

As was Shaun Springs, surprisingly enough. He had the top success rate in the entire NFL last season.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-14-2008, 12:48 PM
I remember when Hall single handedly lost a game for the Falcons last year because of his dumb penalties but Falcon fans still defended him. Honestly I can't blame them. When a team is that bad you have to put a player up on a pedestal, even when he's not that great

Prince 561
09-14-2008, 01:12 PM
As was Shaun Springs, surprisingly enough. He had the top success rate in the entire NFL last season.

Which goes to show why those stats don't mean much. There isn't a coach in the league who would rather have Springs than Harris.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-14-2008, 01:13 PM
Which goes to show why those stats don't mean much. There isn't a coach in the league who would rather have Springs than Harris.

I love how your argument has no basis in reality or any offered support at all. Good job.

Prince 561
09-14-2008, 01:22 PM
You guys are right. Al Harris is the worst cornerback in the league.

Prince 561
09-14-2008, 01:25 PM
well you've provided so many wonderful arguments to the contrary. why don't you try actually, you know, NOT using hyperbole and hearsay everytime you're presented with something you disagree with.

How am I supposed to prove that Harris is better than a guy like Springs? Seriously, I have no clue how to go about doing that. I have watched both play and they're not in the same league.

doingthisinsteadofwork
09-14-2008, 01:28 PM
How am I supposed to prove that Harris is better than a guy like Springs? Seriously, I have no clue how to go about doing that. I have watched both play and they're not in the same league.
Its hard to when you have no evidence to support it.

From watching both say I'd have to say Springs is better Harris.

Prince 561
09-14-2008, 01:34 PM
i don't recall asking you to prove it. but "i watched and he's just better" is not an argument. "i watched and al harris was much better at x. you can see shawn springs fail to do this in play Y."

sort of the way duckseason argued that hall was actually responsible for more than one touchdown.

I'm supposed to recall specific plays from last season?

Really, I suppose I shouldn't care if people think Harris is the worst starting CB in the league. I don't think it's worth my time arguing something so idiotic. It's like people that argued Larry Johnson was a better RB than Tomlinson a few years ago due to stats.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-14-2008, 03:03 PM
I remember when Hall single handedly lost a game for the Falcons last year because of his dumb penalties but Falcon fans still defended him. Honestly I can't blame them. When a team is that bad you have to put a player up on a pedestal, even when he's not that great



Do you also remember him shutting down Steve Smith to the tune of 1 catch for 10 yards which is the only reason we were in the game in the first place? Funny how that always gets lost in the shuffle.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-14-2008, 03:13 PM
Contrary to what many people think, the Panthers are more than one player. Look at their record so far this season for proof. It seems the Falcons were never a team though, judging from the fan defense force both Vick and Hall have

ATLDirtyBirds
09-14-2008, 03:16 PM
Contrary to what many people think, the Panthers are more than one player. Look at their record so far this season for proof. It seems the Falcons were never a team though, judging from the fan defense force both Vick and Hall have


I must have forgotten that DeShaun Foster and Delhomme where world beater players last year.

doingthisinsteadofwork
09-14-2008, 05:54 PM
Hall played badly again today.The ball was thrown his way alot today.He got lucky for the most part though.

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 03:08 PM
on the other hand, one might expect more than "there isn't a coach in the league who would..." or "that's ridiculous!!!1oneone!" in rebuttal. stats are certainly more valuable than that sort of garbage analysis.

Well when you're arguing with that type of people, you shouldn't even bother bringing up stats.

And besides, only the stats you feel are respectable are the ones that are better than opinion, right? Say like, QB rating? ;)

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 03:16 PM
i only approve of ESPN-hyped statistics. and whatever other metrics piss people off.

Well i guess the only thing we agree on is that stats should only be used as a small base of an argument. Nothing else. Which is why these metrics lists are so useless sometimes.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-15-2008, 08:10 PM
Well i guess the only thing we agree on is that stats should only be used as a small base of an argument. Nothing else. Which is why these metrics lists are so useless sometimes.

I would say it depends wholly on the statistic and what argument is being made. If the argument that Al Harris has been a good NFL corner for some time, nothing about his 2007 stats really play a huge role. If the argument is that Al Harris was worthy of a pro bowl berth last year for his play, then I'd say stats that place him as 74th best among his position in the league would play a rather large role.

Mr. Stiller
09-16-2008, 12:37 PM
Umm, yes. Watch the damn game again before you neg rep me. I don't give a crap what you think Demorrio Williams' responsibility was on that play. Hall lined up directly across from Toomer, who ran a quick slant. Hall followed in man coverage while Demorrio and the other LB's keyed in on Jacobs. You really want Williams to leave a gaping hole in the middle of the defense on that play?

On the Boldin play, watch it again. Boldin goes in motion to the right and Chris Crocker follows. As Boldin approaches Bryant Johnson, Crocker stops directly in front of Johnson, at which point the switch is made and the ball is snapped. Johnson blocks Crocker while Hall is now responsible for Boldin. Rather than read and react to what is going on, Hall stays way back toward the sideline and appears as though he wants nothing to do with Boldin as he backpedals into the endzone while his teammates try their hardest to prevent a TD. Let me guess, that was on Demorrio Williams. Or perhaps Crocker should defend both Johnson and Boldin while Hall picks his ass?

Burress damn near always lines up on the left side of the offensive formation. Hall is always on the left side of the defensive formation. I didn't see a single play in that game where Hall faced Burress. Go ahead and dispute that, but I think you need to watch the game first.

You're right, he intercepted Manning. Not sure what that has to do with my post, which had everything to do with how many TD's he gave up this past year and nothing to do with how many interceptions he had. That interception has nothing to do with how badly Gonzalez beat him.

As for Colston, that's what I said. New Orleans moved him all around the field and he was matched up with safeties and even linebackers quite frequently. My point was that Hall didn't really face him. That point remains.

I think all you have to say Duckseason is....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APSxK_w56u8

johnstonolb
11-12-2008, 07:44 AM
Well, that is a completely and utter ridiculous statement.

Um, care to comment again?

DeAngelo Hall = CB equivalent of Roy Williams

georgiafan
11-12-2008, 08:00 AM
Because he trash talks and the young kids like that kinda stuff

Gay Ork Wang
11-12-2008, 08:59 AM
Um, care to comment again?

DeAngelo Hall = CB equivalent of Roy Williams
It is absolutely not the case. No one is as horrible as Roy Williams.
Maybe Ahmad Carroll

thule
11-12-2008, 09:34 AM
Per Stats Inc., he gave up more yards (556 on 40-of-66 passing) than any other cornerback in the league during his brief stint as a Raider.

CC.SD
11-12-2008, 09:38 AM
He's just suffering from Dre Bly symptoms; once he's out from Nnamdi's (or Champ, in Bly's case) shadow he'll start playing his game. He's good but not great.

The Great Jonathan Vilma
11-12-2008, 01:42 PM
It is absolutely not the case. No one is as horrible as Roy Williams.
Maybe Ahmad Carroll

but Ahmad Carroll is known as trash. I think the comparison is in regards to hype vs production. Where, the two may be competitive.

A Perfect Score
11-12-2008, 11:07 PM
Deangelo Hall didnt play well in OAKLAND! name me a player who does play well in oakland (besides Aso, guy is a freak of nature). Case in point- if a team has a losing attitude, much like the raiders this year and the falcons last year, players are simply not going to be trying 100% if they dont think they have a chance to win. Prior to last season in Atlanta, Hall was a top 5 CB in the league, and I still think he has that potential. Hell, I dont blame him for wanting to get out of Oakland...I would be surprised if he planned the whole damn thing.

BlindSite
11-13-2008, 05:29 AM
No one who actually saw Hall play actually considered him a top 5 corner in Atlanta.

NIN1984
11-13-2008, 08:44 AM
I don't care if Hall wanted to get out of Oakland or not he is one of the worst CB the Raiders have ever had. Its no surprise his first game gone the Raiders secondary was amazing.

Average OT LB
11-14-2008, 02:53 AM
Deangelo Hall didnt play well in OAKLAND! name me a player who does play well in oakland (besides Aso, guy is a freak of nature). Case in point- if a team has a losing attitude, much like the raiders this year and the falcons last year, players are simply not going to be trying 100% if they dont think they have a chance to win. Prior to last season in Atlanta, Hall was a top 5 CB in the league, and I still think he has that potential. Hell, I dont blame him for wanting to get out of Oakland...I would be surprised if he planned the whole damn thing.

What players play well in oakland? good question, but judging from last years statistics i'd say specifically everyone on pass defense. The fact that hall came to a team that was strong in a particular statistic, and made it weaker, then got cut for poor performance... just shows what this guys made of.

jsagan77
11-14-2008, 08:55 AM
Shawn Springs could quite possibly be the most underrated CB in the NFL... That guy shuts down everything and everyone... Ask TO..

21ST
11-14-2008, 10:39 AM
Shawn Springs could quite possibly be the most underrated CB in the NFL... That guy shuts down everything and everyone... Ask TO..

to bad he only plays when he wants to

A Perfect Score
11-14-2008, 01:17 PM
What players play well in oakland? good question, but judging from last years statistics i'd say specifically everyone on pass defense. The fact that hall came to a team that was strong in a particular statistic, and made it weaker, then got cut for poor performance... just shows what this guys made of.

Well, if you look at Oakland's D last year, the reason their pass defense was so "good" was because teams were always so far ahead and then just ran it down the Raiders throats to burn time. Nice try, champ. Its oakland. They have a tradition of losing, and until something is done to break it, you will see more and more cases like this happening.

and NJX, i didnt ACTUALLY think he planned it, obviously no one plans to get released in that situation...

Average OT LB
11-15-2008, 04:54 AM
Well, if you look at Oakland's D last year, the reason their pass defense was so "good" was because teams were always so far ahead and then just ran it down the Raiders throats to burn time. Nice try, champ. Its oakland. They have a tradition of losing, and until something is done to break it, you will see more and more cases like this happening.

and NJX, i didnt ACTUALLY think he planned it, obviously no one plans to get released in that situation...

I went back and looked up the statistics, and I change my mind, Oakland's pass defense wasn't as good as I thought. I disagree with why though. Opponents ran the ball because they could, and because they knew the raiders couldn't score on offense. Time of possession isn't something teams think about only when they're winning or in the fourth quarter.

As for Hall sucking because the players around him sucked, and as a result his played declined... thats an argument I can agree with. I believe full well that Randy Moss could have been a better player had there been a quarterback throwing to him, or if there were other receivers to take pressure off him.. or if he tried a little harder...

Cornerback though? ehh... the position where you often here the term 'island' which is reference to being alone? I don't think you can make a strong case for hall in this scenario because there is a perfect example of someone accomplishing his task directly opposite him. Hes not getting the best receivers and hes still getting burned badly. there were whispers around the league of his being overrated, so why is this a surprise that he is now considered a bust? Say hes not as bad as getting cut mid way through the season... I'd grant that argument. Hes not terrible, not one of the 'worst corners in the league' but hes certainly not good.

Gay Ork Wang
11-15-2008, 05:04 AM
wait, they care about TOP especially in the 4th qrt. If u can run the clock down with the lead or if u can move down the field at will u are going to do that

trkaline
11-15-2008, 05:07 AM
Al Davis must die for the Raiders to become a good football team...but alas the only way to stop him is to stop abortions, as baby fetus' are whats keeping this ghoul alive..

stephenson86
11-15-2008, 06:55 AM
or maybe, Eddie Royal is just amazing.

QFT....seriously though eddie royal has played lights out against good corners for a rookie

BamaFalcon59
11-15-2008, 08:40 AM
And where did Royal go to college?

Yeah.

Gay Ork Wang
11-15-2008, 08:41 AM
And despite that he managed to be good, unreal

BamaFalcon59
11-15-2008, 09:46 AM
And despite that he managed to be good, unreal

Well, that's true. Brian Stinespring is an idiot.

Ness
11-16-2008, 03:33 AM
And where did Royal go to college?

Yeah.
A college than under utilized it's wide receivers. Not surprising Eddie Royal and Josh Morgan have showed promise.

Average OT LB
11-19-2008, 10:43 AM
wait, they care about TOP especially in the 4th qrt. If u can run the clock down with the lead or if u can move down the field at will u are going to do that

I left out 'only' ... typo