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View Full Version : Very Interesting Chad Johnson issue


NY+Giants=NYG
09-10-2008, 11:31 AM
Name tag has high price tag
NFL: Bengal first must buy 'C. Johnson' gear to wear 'Ocho Cinco'

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080910/SPT02/809100365/1062/SPT&referrer=NEWSFRONTCAROUSEL



"When a player requests a name change or a number change, the player is responsible for that unsold inventory," NFL spokesperson Brian McCarthy said.

So basically the Bengals have to buy every CJ jersey. LOL. It is very funny, in my opinion, but is that even legal? So if a WNBA player gets married and changes her name, does she and the team have to buy the very little jerseys out there with her old name? What about the other sports? I guess Chad should have thought of all this before changing his name for marketing purposes.

Smooth Criminal
09-10-2008, 11:33 AM
I don't know about other sports but the NFL has always done this. Keith Rivers just went through this aswell.

Its because of a contract with NFL and Reebok so I don't know if the other sports have it.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-10-2008, 11:36 AM
I don't know about other sports but the NFL has always done this. Keith Rivers just went through this aswell.

Its because of a contract with NFL and Reebok so I don't know if the other sports have it.

I am not a bball fan, but didn't Kobe change his # as well? Interesting issue, I figured you can change your name and #, but now thinking about the marketing element I can see it's alot more complicated especially if your a big business like Reebok or Nike.

iowatreat54
09-10-2008, 11:44 AM
welcome to about a week ago in the Chad Ocho Cinco thread

NY+Giants=NYG
09-10-2008, 11:54 AM
welcome to about a week ago in the Chad Ocho Cinco thread

Maybe, but the article is dated for today, so I posted current news.

Gay Ork Wang
09-10-2008, 11:54 AM
yea i heard about it on Game Day, kinda weird, but in some way understandable

Jughead10
09-10-2008, 12:21 PM
Reebok is being stupid here. I think the NFL may be pressuring them. They stand to make so much more money on Ocho Cinco jerseys than they will lose in unsold inventory. How much does it even cost to make a jersey? C. Johnson jerseys will still be sold on sale at around 20 bucks and I'm sure Reebok still takes a profit at that price.

I don't know who makes NBA jerseys, but I'm sure they didn't care when Kobe changed his number, because they could sell that many more new jerseys.

I went to the Ravens vs. Bengals game this weekend, and out of the few Bengals fans that were there, some already had authentic Ocho Cinco jerseys. I even saw some guy at a bar here in NJ wearing one over Labor Day weekend.

Bengalsrocket
09-10-2008, 12:24 PM
I think they're doing it to set a precedent. It would be an absolute nightmare for these companies if multiple people did this.

However, in the case of 1 person - Chad Ocho Cinco - this is just bad business on Reebok's part. What if Chad or the Cincinnati Bengals choose not to buy the jerseys? Then they're going to sit on 100,000 Chad Johnson Jerseys, meanwhile not making any money off them or off the jerseys they could be selling that say Ocho Cinco on the back.

Again, if they made 100,000 jerseys of every star player in the league and it cost them 4.8 million dollars a player that means if 5 players change their name then Reebok is out 25 million dollars spent and and like another 25 million in what would be profit. But if they could see into the future and know that Chad Johnson was the only one that will change his name then I'm sure they would be less concerned about the 4.8 million they're losing and more concerned about the massive amounts of cash Ocho Cinco jerseys are going to make.

BlindSite
09-10-2008, 04:58 PM
Why not just package the two together, sell the ocho cinco jerseys with the Johnson jerseys in a package for 10 bucks more, old stock will go fairly quickly then.

Addict
09-10-2008, 05:00 PM
all reebok needs to do is print "I REMEMBER" above "C. Johnson" and they're golden.

awfullyquiet
09-10-2008, 05:07 PM
I think they're doing it to set a precedent. It would be an absolute nightmare for these companies if multiple people did this.

However, in the case of 1 person - Chad Ocho Cinco - this is just bad business on Reebok's part. What if Chad or the Cincinnati Bengals choose not to buy the jerseys? Then they're going to sit on 100,000 Chad Johnson Jerseys, meanwhile not making any money off them or off the jerseys they could be selling that say Ocho Cinco on the back.

Again, if they made 100,000 jerseys of every star player in the league and it cost them 4.8 million dollars a player that means if 5 players change their name then Reebok is out 25 million dollars spent and and like another 25 million in what would be profit. But if they could see into the future and know that Chad Johnson was the only one that will change his name then I'm sure they would be less concerned about the 4.8 million they're losing and more concerned about the massive amounts of cash Ocho Cinco jerseys are going to make.


4.8 million dollars a player? OH no no no no no no. Kid, you do not know anything about business.

Jerseys are made in Honduras. When imported into the US they're 5.00$ a jersey. They're marked up to 75 dollars, 80 dollars a jersey. To get 20,000 jerseys, it'd cost. 100,000$. Chump Change. Between the NBA and NFL, Reebok's production is around 1.4 million jerseys a month. Reebok looks to extract every dollar they can out of it's customers, and it's suppliers (in honduras... aside: they pay their workers ****. 15 cents per hour would change their life from poverty. but Reebok can't have that...).

What's really going on is that they're going to let it boil up a little bit more, and in the relative short future, you should expect to see Ocho Cinco Jerseys popping up.

Strongside
09-10-2008, 05:08 PM
This isn't a new thing, players always had to do it if they changed they're number. Roy Williams had to do it this year.

Why don't they just change the names on the Jerseys? Like reletter them?

awfullyquiet
09-10-2008, 05:13 PM
Or. What if he got married and decided to take his wife's last name too.

Reebok is really at fault here. They're douchebags to start with. Don't buy jerseys...

Smooth Criminal
09-10-2008, 05:17 PM
I only buy fake jerseys

awfullyquiet
09-10-2008, 05:20 PM
I only buy fake jerseys

I personally like going to thrift stores to find kids jerseys.

I got a sweet Joey Galloway Seahawks one that way.

CashmoneyDrew
09-10-2008, 05:45 PM
I hate jerseys. Don't wear the damn things. Every time I used to buy one the player would leave the team and go somewhere else.

MetSox17
09-10-2008, 05:45 PM
This isn't a new thing, players always had to do it if they changed they're number. Roy Williams had to do it this year.

Why don't they just change the names on the Jerseys? Like reletter them?

This was already brought up in the other thread.

Do you realize how much it would cost them to ship back every jersey and have them un-stitched by hand?

Um, i was asking cause i didn't know, but i bet it's a lot.

Geo
09-10-2008, 06:13 PM
all reebok needs to do is print "I REMEMBER" above "C. Johnson" and they're golden.
Post of the thread!

PalmerToCJ
09-10-2008, 06:13 PM
Happens all the time. I believe it happened to Jerry Porter a few years ago.

Any time a player wants to change a number (or in this case, name) this very problem comes up.

D-Unit
09-10-2008, 06:53 PM
Chad's intelligence is soooooo underrated. He just gives the Bengals another reason to trade him. If I were him, I'd keep changing my last name. What's it cost? $50 for a legal name change? psh...

Babylon
09-10-2008, 06:58 PM
People find this interesting? To me how healthy he can stay this year and if and when he gets moved to another team is interesting. Smells of lipstick on a pig to me.

thefalconer
09-10-2008, 08:05 PM
People find this interesting? To me how healthy he can stay this year and if and when he gets moved to another team is interesting. Smells of lipstick on a pig to me.

lipstick on a pitbull http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

Bengalsrocket
09-11-2008, 12:18 AM
4.8 million dollars a player? OH no no no no no no. Kid, you do not know anything about business.

Jerseys are made in Honduras. When imported into the US they're 5.00$ a jersey. They're marked up to 75 dollars, 80 dollars a jersey. To get 20,000 jerseys, it'd cost. 100,000$. Chump Change. Between the NBA and NFL, Reebok's production is around 1.4 million jerseys a month. Reebok looks to extract every dollar they can out of it's customers, and it's suppliers (in honduras... aside: they pay their workers ****. 15 cents per hour would change their life from poverty. but Reebok can't have that...).

What's really going on is that they're going to let it boil up a little bit more, and in the relative short future, you should expect to see Ocho Cinco Jerseys popping up.

1) Not a kid.

2) A quote in the link above proves you wrong:

A CNBC report on Monday said the jerseys, which retail for about $75 each, could cost Ocho Cinco $48 per jersey, the cost of production.

"Cost of production" means how much it costs to produce one, kid.

I realize that your high school probably just had a guest speaker come in and tell you that everything is made in a 3rd world country where the workers are underpaid so it only costs the companies 5 cents to make something, but that's simply not true (or at least the 5 cents part isn't).

Bruce Banner
09-11-2008, 12:23 AM
"Cost of production" means how much it costs to produce one,


You really don't think those figures are correct, do you?

Really?


REALLY?

Menardo75
09-11-2008, 01:27 AM
The things people do for attention

Bengalsrocket
09-11-2008, 10:19 AM
You really don't think those figures are correct, do you?

Really?


REALLY?

yes I do. First of all, if we're counting everything that goes into making a jersey, 48 dollars seems very reasonable on their end.

Secondly, why would they try to stiff Chad Johnson or the Cincinnati Bengals? by upping the price you deter either from wanting to buy them out and that's simply bad business. The sooner they get rid of all the Chad Johnson jerseys the sooner they can sell Ocho Cinco jerseys which will make them tons of money.

awfullyquiet
09-11-2008, 11:42 AM
yes I do. First of all, if we're counting everything that goes into making a jersey, 48 dollars seems very reasonable on their end.

Secondly, why would they try to stiff Chad Johnson or the Cincinnati Bengals? by upping the price you deter either from wanting to buy them out and that's simply bad business. The sooner they get rid of all the Chad Johnson jerseys the sooner they can sell Ocho Cinco jerseys which will make them tons of money.

Are you kidding me.

48 dollars? How do you figure?
5 dollars for material and 43 dollars for labor?
No way.



One.


2) A quote in the link above proves you wrong:

Quote:
A CNBC report on Monday said the jerseys, which retail for about $75 each, could cost Ocho Cinco $48 per jersey, the cost of production.
"Cost of production" means how much it costs to produce one, kid.


Everybody Lies. Especially the companies that tell the media stuff. If you want to find out how much it costs, go look at the declared value of bills of lading. That's how you figure out how much companies are marking up the price of their products.

Visit this link: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=24dlwrc&s=4

FIVE DOLLARS. FIVE. DOLLARS. FIVE. DOLLARS.


I realize that your high school probably just had a guest speaker come in and tell you that everything is made in a 3rd world country where the workers are underpaid so it only costs the companies 5 cents to make something, but that's simply not true (or at least the 5 cents part isn't).

Thanks for playing. Jersey's cost 5 dollars a piece. If they make 50-60 dollars a week (which is true. if you've ever been to honduras, or did your research, you'd know these sort of things...)

Jersey's are made at over 1 million a month. To think that the cost for each jersey's labor is 5 cents is not illogical, and is, in fact, it's only actually a little more than that... it's 19 cents... (sorry, my math was wrong). 19 cents to sew a 80 dollar jersey? Tell me. Where is the money going to?

I'll tell you where it's not mostly going first.

Part of it goes to the League for licensing, part of it goes to the player. A full THREE DOLLARS per jersey goes to advertising the jersey. But most of it, goes into profit.

So. You're completely deluded here onto what people actually are paying for.

You're paying for reebok's (well, Adidas technically) executive bonuses. Plain and simple. People are willing to pay 80 dollars. So they sell it for 80 dollars. The markup on goods like this is simply incredible. It's not like it's a one of a kind item, it is a FULLY mass produced item, that is made for pennies, and is sold for near 100$.

completely bogus.

Bengalsrocket
09-11-2008, 12:14 PM
Are you kidding me.

48 dollars? How do you figure?
5 dollars for material and 43 dollars for labor?
No way.



One.



Everybody Lies. Especially the companies that tell the media stuff. If you want to find out how much it costs, go look at the declared value of bills of lading. That's how you figure out how much companies are marking up the price of their products.

Visit this link: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=24dlwrc&s=4

FIVE DOLLARS. FIVE. DOLLARS. FIVE. DOLLARS.




Thanks for playing. Jersey's cost 5 dollars a piece. If they make 50-60 dollars a week (which is true. if you've ever been to honduras, or did your research, you'd know these sort of things...)

Jersey's are made at over 1 million a month. To think that the cost for each jersey's labor is 5 cents is not illogical, and is, in fact, it's only actually a little more than that... it's 19 cents... (sorry, my math was wrong). 19 cents to sew a 80 dollar jersey? Tell me. Where is the money going to?

I'll tell you where it's not mostly going first.

Part of it goes to the League for licensing, part of it goes to the player. A full THREE DOLLARS per jersey goes to advertising the jersey. But most of it, goes into profit.

So. You're completely deluded here onto what people actually are paying for.

You're paying for reebok's (well, Adidas technically) executive bonuses. Plain and simple. People are willing to pay 80 dollars. So they sell it for 80 dollars. The markup on goods like this is simply incredible. It's not like it's a one of a kind item, it is a FULLY mass produced item, that is made for pennies, and is sold for near 100$.

completely bogus.


I'm not quite sure what I'm looking at in the picture. It looks like a shipping report - which says there is 18 thousand shirts valued at 90,000 dollars (which yes, is 5 dollars). But what I don't understand is the significance of it.

In the report it says that its being shipped from Honduras to Indianapolis.

Are we to assume that as soon as the boxes of jerseys get to Indianapolis they just sit there in the boxes, and people fly from all around the world and dig up their jersey size from inside these boxes and just leave the money?

production, despite the actual definition of the word, doesn't just mean materials + crafting labor. production means anything that specifically isn't profit (in a business sense). So if you pay a guard to stand by the jerseys and make sure no one steals them while they sit in a warehouse then you're paying him part of the production cost.

Oh and btw, I didn't say Honduras workers got paid more than 5 cents an hour, I said the companies don't make the jerseys for 5 cents. The original point was actually that despite 3rd world workers do get paid like dirt doesn't mean that the companies make everything dirt cheap.

Yes, clothing mark up value is ridiculous, but from the 5 dollars they spend in materials + crafting labor to the 100 dollars they sell these jerseys for is not all profit.

awfullyquiet
09-11-2008, 12:47 PM
I'm not quite sure what I'm looking at in the picture. It looks like a shipping report - which says there is 18 thousand shirts valued at 90,000 dollars (which yes, is 5 dollars). But what I don't understand is the significance of it.


Each shirt has an declared value in customs of being 5 dollars. That is the price they are to make and transport to america sans licensing costs.

In the report it says that its being shipped from Honduras to Indianapolis.

Are we to assume that as soon as the boxes of jerseys get to Indianapolis they just sit there in the boxes, and people fly from all around the world and dig up their jersey size from inside these boxes and just leave the money?


Distribution. Not that expensive, per item. A few of those cartons get shipped to Sports Authority, Modells, NFL.com's warehouse... overall, per jersey, it's not that expensive of a transportation over 18000 jerseys... per carton. 20000 dollars for shipping to said stores isn't out of the question (including shipping from honduras to miami or jersey/new york), and then truckloads from which... but with over 18000 jerseys, it's still a dollar per jersey sold. we're at six dollars a jersey.

production, despite the actual definition of the word, doesn't just mean materials + crafting labor. production means anything that specifically isn't profit (in a business sense). So if you pay a guard to stand by the jerseys and make sure no one steals them while they sit in a warehouse then you're paying him part of the production cost.


Jersey's don't sit in warehouses. They sit in stores. The NFL takes some of those dollars per jersey in licensing fees (and distributes it to players, i think it's around 10-12 dollars if i remember). The jersey's actual cost is somewhere along 8 dollars tops, when you include transportation. When you include licensing fees for the NFL it's 18 dollars (ish)... the physical, non-intellectual property of it. I think you have a terrible example.


Oh and btw, I didn't say Honduras workers got paid more than 5 cents an hour, I said the companies don't make the jerseys for 5 cents. The original point was actually that despite 3rd world workers do get paid like dirt doesn't mean that the companies make everything dirt cheap.

Everything is dirt cheap. Don't deny it. Why do you think everything is from china, taiwan, korea, honduras?

Yes, clothing mark up value is ridiculous, but from the 5 dollars they spend in materials + crafting labor to the 100 dollars they sell these jerseys for is not all profit.

Most of it is. Most of it is locked either in the record profits of Adidas/Reebok and the NFL's brand-building. 48 dollars is probably the wholesale cost to end retailers. Between that 10 and 48 dollars is a pretty shifty amount per jersey. And not to mention, I can only assume part of the costs of licensing are added to retailers and the customer.

So. BengalsRocket. What's your business chain credentials?

Jvig43
09-11-2008, 12:55 PM
Funny how John Clayton pointed out on NFL live that it was against NFL rules to wear a jersey that didn't have your actual name on it so by forcing him to wear Johnson on the back is just breaking a different rule.

Bengalsrocket
09-11-2008, 01:12 PM
Each shirt has an declared value in customs of being 5 dollars. That is the price they are to make and transport to america sans licensing costs.



Distribution. Not that expensive, per item. A few of those cartons get shipped to Sports Authority, Modells, NFL.com's warehouse... overall, per jersey, it's not that expensive of a transportation over 18000 jerseys... per carton. 20000 dollars for shipping to said stores isn't out of the question (including shipping from honduras to miami or jersey/new york), and then truckloads from which... but with over 18000 jerseys, it's still a dollar per jersey sold. we're at six dollars a jersey.




Jersey's don't sit in warehouses. They sit in stores. The NFL takes some of those dollars per jersey in licensing fees (and distributes it to players, i think it's around 10-12 dollars if i remember). The jersey's actual cost is somewhere along 8 dollars tops, when you include transportation. When you include licensing fees for the NFL it's 18 dollars (ish)... the physical, non-intellectual property of it. I think you have a terrible example.




Everything is dirt cheap. Don't deny it. Why do you think everything is from china, taiwan, korea, honduras?



Most of it is. Most of it is locked either in the record profits of Adidas/Reebok and the NFL's brand-building. 48 dollars is probably the wholesale cost to end retailers. Between that 10 and 48 dollars is a pretty shifty amount per jersey. And not to mention, I can only assume part of the costs of licensing are added to retailers and the customer.

So. BengalsRocket. What's your business chain credentials?

its hard to round up money costs when we're arguing just a couple boxes of jerseys. But we can do it, I think.

Until the jerseys hit american soil, its just 5 dollars - we both can agree on that.

Now once they're in Indianapolis how much does it cost to store them there until they're shipped off to other places. Do they rent the warehouse that they're sitting in or do they own? Do they have to pay for utilities and maintenance and employees here or is a brick warehouse with no electricity run by robots who are powered by solar energy?

Now, once they're being shipped who pays for the trucks + the employees who load the trucks + the employees that drive the trucks (usually not the same people in my experience) etc. I mean if they're renting the trucks + truck drivers, that costs them money. If they own the trucks + employee the truck drivers then that cost them money too. Either way you cut it, they pay.

Now once they've unloaded the trucks at all these stores (Authority, Modells, NFL.com's warehouse... etc) how much do they pay to actually own the jerseys? yes.. that's part of production. Reebok sells the jerseys to Authority, Modells, NFL.com's warehouse... etc. who then in turn mark up the prices themselves.

And then back to the beginning who's the one managing and sorting this all together. I imaging its like all other business' where you have several people overseeing the process making sure it all gets done properly (people with the ability / knowledge to fix a problem should one arise).

Now obviously, all of this is divided by the time and effort spent strictly on just Chad Johnson jerseys - but eventually it gets to be a pretty hefty cost.

Bruce Banner
09-11-2008, 01:26 PM
Don't go to war with AQ.

Bengalsrocket
09-11-2008, 01:30 PM
Don't go to war with AQ.

Just a debate, no emotion for me. Saving some things to argue about too - I don't want to type a book just to have it quote sniped :(

Bruce Banner
09-11-2008, 01:35 PM
Just a debate, no emotion for me. Saving some things to argue about too - I don't want to type a book just to have it quote sniped :(

It's not even a debate. If you don't think that those jerseys are made dirt cheap then you are more naive than I thought.

Bengalsrocket
09-11-2008, 01:38 PM
It's not even a debate. If you don't think that those jerseys are made dirt cheap then you are more naive than I thought.

If you don't think the term "production" means more than crafting labor + material than you're more naive than I thought.

Bruce Banner
09-11-2008, 01:39 PM
If you don't think the term "production" means more than crafting labor + material than you're more naive than I thought.

What exactly are you arguing? (no sarcasm)

vidae
09-11-2008, 01:40 PM
I believe his argument, and he can correct me if I'm wrong, is that more goes into production than the $5 that is being argued. Saying that $5 is the whole production cost of a jersey is incorrect.

I'm pretty sure that's what he's trying to say.

ps this thread delivers.

Bengalsrocket
09-11-2008, 01:42 PM
What exactly are you arguing? (no sarcasm)

There's just more to it then you read on the internet. I understand every point made in this thread - 3rd world country workers make dirt for labor. And there is a huge mark up on clothing. Though aware of all of this, I'm also aware that business' do more than just those two things.

Bruce Banner
09-11-2008, 01:44 PM
I believe his argument, and he can correct me if I'm wrong, is that more goes into production than the $5 that is being argued. Saying that $5 is the whole production cost of a jersey is incorrect.

I'm pretty sure that's what he's trying to say.

AQ delivers.

Ah, I need to go back and read it over again.

and that's not nut riding because of a lack of.......

vidae
09-11-2008, 01:53 PM
Ah, I need to go back and read it over again.

and that's not nut riding because of a lack of.......

Coat tails perhaps?

awfullyquiet
09-11-2008, 02:12 PM
Don't go to war with AQ.

*sigh*.

I'm getting bored of this one though.

Warehousing Strategies: Hold lots of Stuff.

18000 jerseys is probably one or two truckloads. Vertically stored in a warehouse, it's probably taking up 40h x 8 w x 20 d... per truckload. If that's ALL the warehouse carries, it's not much of a warehouse is it? No, a warehouse holds millions and millions and millions of dollars worth of products.

This particular warehouse (according to Hoovers) is a subsidy of Reebok.

Reebok probably holds... their other apparel there too? Thus reducing the total cost of those jersey's warehousing costs. The warehousing cost. FOR SURE. Is no more than 10 cents a jersey. The shipping, as i said, from point A to every point B is around... a buck or two a jersey. fair enough eh? I mean, the reason why it's cheaper for it to go to big box stores such as Modell's is because, shipping in bulk is cheaper, whereas your average footlocker or mall-store won't get things at the same price because of the size of the store.

So, they ship 8000 jerseys from this warehouse to Modell's Distribution center... and then what? The price goes up. Add a dollar per jersey. (8000 dollars for shipping and drayage? JUST FOR THE JERSEYS, not to mention all the other products they have drayed in the warehouse). Assume 100 Chad Ochocinco (no space) Jerseys are shipped with 100 new brett favre jerseys (and six chad pennington jerseys and one rudi johnson) to your local modell's... how much room does that take? OH maybe one pallet on a truckload (for 300 jerseys). which from Modell's to Modell's is normally shipped by owned trucks along with other products. How long does it take to load a truck? A day to have someone sort through boxes, pick out the order, and box, pallet and put on a truck? I'd give that 300 dollars in wages, electricity, and forklift costs (over 300 jerseys... round it up to another dollar, remember, this all is being done simultaniously amongst other things, and 300 dollars for 300 jerseys isn't a ridiculous cost in wages) pallets. Say, transporting the truck, loading the truck, insuring the truck, driving the truck will cost around 2000 dollars, divide that by how many pallets fit in a truck (48-54, we'll keep the numbers big and go 48), and it's 41 dollars per pallet. Over 300 jerseys. Add an additional quarter.

10 dollars an hour to have someone stock the shelf, it takes them 20 minutes to do that at your local modells, 2 dollars to stock 300 jerseys and maybe throw in an additonal 30 hours for re-folding jerseys (although i think if i remember correctly, they come in plastic bags underneath...) i'll still give you the benifit of the doubt... an additional dollar per jersey (not even chad johnson jerseys) (30 hours * 10 dollars = 300 dollars, or 1$/jersey)... and Cost of electricity, displays, shelving, cashiers by percentage of the store to the jerseys (football jerseys take up 1/6th of an aisle out of 20 aisle... or .8% of the store, chad johnson jerseys take up even less, but i won't fault you for that), I'd say just add another dollar for s&g's to make this more fair.

Math time

S&G's in the store = 1$ per jersey
Stocking Shelves = 1$ per jersey
Transporting Jerseys from DC to Store= .25$ per jersey
Warehousing at Modell's = 1$ per jersey
Transporting to Modell's DC= .25$ per Jersey
Warehousing at Onfield = 1$ per jersey
Shipping a Container from Honduras to Miami and trucking it via DHL to Indy = $2 dollars per jersey.
Advertising on JERSEYS = 3$ per jersey

Totals here... 6.5 dollars per jersey is taken up by 'production' costs. Not 48 dollars. Add the say, 15 dollars per jersey licensing fee. and five dollars per jersey. And you have 26.5 dollars per jersey as a break-even point. Approximately, my shipping statistics might be off since I have been working on investments applications for so long, but i've tried to compensate by rounding up numbers.

The fact is, is, it does NOT cost reebok 48 dollars to make a jersey. I also screwed up, if you take out what happens to the jersey after it reaches modell's DC, you shouldn't count that as reebok's total. But, i did to show how ludicrious it is to think that 48 dollars is right.

48 dollars is what modell probably pays, wholesale cost. Reebok probably makes anywhere from 15-30 dollars PER jersey. (and with 1.4 million made per month, according to han soll, the company that makes the jerseys), that's a lot of jerseys. Modell's probably makes 16-18 dollars per jersey.

20 (base cost after licensing and bullshitting) + 28 (profit for reebok) + 10 (Modell's cost per jersey) + 16-18 (modell's profit) = 78 dollars

http://www.modells.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3225078&cp=716563

If you're looking on a PER JERSEY cost. The cost of these jerseys to maintain is relatively miniscule compared to the price they're being offered at. The greatest portion of the money in the actual cost of the jersey is to the league (out of 20 dollars, that's half of the 'actual' cost of the jersey), the jersey, sans profit, is worth 5 dollars, the NFL takes their take of it.


Now obviously, all of this is divided by the time and effort spent strictly on just Chad Johnson jerseys - but eventually it gets to be a pretty hefty cost.

When you divide it up per jersey sold. The costs are absolutely miniscule. Go get an MBA.

Edit: I agree 5 dollars isn't the absolute cost, but if you're adding in shipping, and if he has to buy all of these, and they become 'unlicensed products' because they're not 'official jerseys' because his name isn't 'chad johnson'. It's not 48 dollars like you've been quoted as saying. 48 dollars after a round of profit maybe.

Bruce Banner
09-11-2008, 02:12 PM
Coat tails perhaps?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_A71jVpGSQ

vidae
09-11-2008, 02:17 PM
I don't understand the absolute need for some people on these boards to be so condescending. I guess it must be fun.

awfullyquiet
09-11-2008, 02:18 PM
I don't understand the absolute need for some people on these boards to be so condescending. I guess it must be fun.

It's not condescending (or maybe it is), it's just that if you're going to claim something to be right. I'm the pics or it didn't happen police.

For every unverified claim out there. I work to verify it.

vidae
09-11-2008, 02:22 PM
It's not condescending (or maybe it is), it's just that if you're going to claim something to be right. I'm the pics or it didn't happen police.

For every unverified claim out there. I work to verify it.

No, it is condescending, though I guess if that's your thing it's fine. I just don't get it. :)

Bruce Banner
09-11-2008, 02:24 PM
I don't expect a Bengalsrocket reply.

vidae
09-11-2008, 02:25 PM
I don't expect a Bengalsrocket reply.

I kind of wish the same could be said about you.

Bruce Banner
09-11-2008, 02:27 PM
I kind of wish the same could be said about you.

'Tis wishful thinking indeed.

awfullyquiet
09-11-2008, 02:30 PM
No, it is condescending, though I guess if that's your thing it's fine. I just don't get it. :)

I don't like to be. I just like to work against the anti-scientific current of unverified sourcing.

If you don't have the data or facts to backup a statement, but instead work on hearsay based from the media, i will address it with haste. It's the way the world works.

Pics or it didn't happen. I'm trying to prove it didn't happen, and that Reebok and the NFL are just **** blocking chad ochocinco by forcing him to pay too great a price.

I think a reasonable offer for chad johnson jersey for chad ochocinco to buy is 30 dollars. some profit. The media publicity will excite chad ochocinco jersey buyers. it's a win win situation. Chad Johnson could even send the jerseys to africa or another third world nation for clothing, publicizing NFL africa and making a nice tax write off.

awfullyquiet
09-11-2008, 02:32 PM
i'm entertained by the length of this argument. i'm not the only one.

I'm bored. Sew me.

Bruce Banner
09-11-2008, 02:33 PM
I'm bored. Sew me.

Was that on purpose?

awfullyquiet
09-11-2008, 02:41 PM
Was that on purpose?

I'm not sure. If there's subtle connotations relating to urban dictionary in that. It was not intended.

Bengalsrocket
09-11-2008, 02:52 PM
*sigh*.

I'm getting bored of this one though.

Warehousing Strategies: Hold lots of Stuff.

18000 jerseys is probably one or two truckloads. Vertically stored in a warehouse, it's probably taking up 40h x 8 w x 20 d... per truckload. If that's ALL the warehouse carries, it's not much of a warehouse is it? No, a warehouse holds millions and millions and millions of dollars worth of products.

This particular warehouse (according to Hoovers) is a subsidy of Reebok.

Reebok probably holds... their other apparel there too? Thus reducing the total cost of those jersey's warehousing costs. The warehousing cost. FOR SURE. Is no more than 10 cents a jersey. The shipping, as i said, from point A to every point B is around... a buck or two a jersey. fair enough eh? I mean, the reason why it's cheaper for it to go to big box stores such as Modell's is because, shipping in bulk is cheaper, whereas your average footlocker or mall-store won't get things at the same price because of the size of the store.

So, they ship 8000 jerseys from this warehouse to Modell's Distribution center... and then what? The price goes up. Add a dollar per jersey. (8000 dollars for shipping and drayage? JUST FOR THE JERSEYS, not to mention all the other products they have drayed in the warehouse). Assume 100 Chad Ochocinco (no space) Jerseys are shipped with 100 new brett favre jerseys (and six chad pennington jerseys and one rudi johnson) to your local modell's... how much room does that take? OH maybe one pallet on a truckload (for 300 jerseys). which from Modell's to Modell's is normally shipped by owned trucks along with other products. How long does it take to load a truck? A day to have someone sort through boxes, pick out the order, and box, pallet and put on a truck? I'd give that 300 dollars in wages, electricity, and forklift costs (over 300 jerseys... round it up to another dollar, remember, this all is being done simultaniously amongst other things, and 300 dollars for 300 jerseys isn't a ridiculous cost in wages) pallets. Say, transporting the truck, loading the truck, insuring the truck, driving the truck will cost around 2000 dollars, divide that by how many pallets fit in a truck (48-54, we'll keep the numbers big and go 48), and it's 41 dollars per pallet. Over 300 jerseys. Add an additional quarter.

10 dollars an hour to have someone stock the shelf, it takes them 20 minutes to do that at your local modells, 2 dollars to stock 300 jerseys and maybe throw in an additonal 30 hours for re-folding jerseys (although i think if i remember correctly, they come in plastic bags underneath...) i'll still give you the benifit of the doubt... an additional dollar per jersey (not even chad johnson jerseys) (30 hours * 10 dollars = 300 dollars, or 1$/jersey)... and Cost of electricity, displays, shelving, cashiers by percentage of the store to the jerseys (football jerseys take up 1/6th of an aisle out of 20 aisle... or .8% of the store, chad johnson jerseys take up even less, but i won't fault you for that), I'd say just add another dollar for s&g's to make this more fair.

Math time

S&G's in the store = 1$ per jersey
Stocking Shelves = 1$ per jersey
Transporting Jerseys from DC to Store= .25$ per jersey
Warehousing at Modell's = 1$ per jersey
Transporting to Modell's DC= .25$ per Jersey
Warehousing at Onfield = 1$ per jersey
Shipping a Container from Honduras to Miami and trucking it via DHL to Indy = $2 dollars per jersey.
Advertising on JERSEYS = 3$ per jersey

Totals here... 6.5 dollars per jersey is taken up by 'production' costs. Not 48 dollars. Add the say, 15 dollars per jersey licensing fee. and five dollars per jersey. And you have 26.5 dollars per jersey as a break-even point. Approximately, my shipping statistics might be off since I have been working on investments applications for so long, but i've tried to compensate by rounding up numbers.

The fact is, is, it does NOT cost reebok 48 dollars to make a jersey. I also screwed up, if you take out what happens to the jersey after it reaches modell's DC, you shouldn't count that as reebok's total. But, i did to show how ludicrious it is to think that 48 dollars is right.

48 dollars is what modell probably pays, wholesale cost. Reebok probably makes anywhere from 15-30 dollars PER jersey. (and with 1.4 million made per month, according to han soll, the company that makes the jerseys), that's a lot of jerseys. Modell's probably makes 16-18 dollars per jersey.

20 (base cost after licensing and bullshitting) + 28 (profit for reebok) + 10 (Modell's cost per jersey) + 16-18 (modell's profit) = 78 dollars

http://www.modells.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3225078&cp=716563

If you're looking on a PER JERSEY cost. The cost of these jerseys to maintain is relatively miniscule compared to the price they're being offered at. The greatest portion of the money in the actual cost of the jersey is to the league (out of 20 dollars, that's half of the 'actual' cost of the jersey), the jersey, sans profit, is worth 5 dollars, the NFL takes their take of it.




When you divide it up per jersey sold. The costs are absolutely miniscule. Go get an MBA.

Edit: I agree 5 dollars isn't the absolute cost, but if you're adding in shipping, and if he has to buy all of these, and they become 'unlicensed products' because they're not 'official jerseys' because his name isn't 'chad johnson'. It's not 48 dollars like you've been quoted as saying. 48 dollars after a round of profit maybe.


All very good points. I'm not able to check all that math considering its the equations are all made up in your head, but fair enough if I'm not willing to truck through the research and figure it out then I guess I'll take your word for it.

But now that I've roped you into an entire argument about the cost of these jerseys (which btw, you did eventually bend to 26.5 dollars a jersey correct? or did I misread?) I'd like to point out significant point:



This little quote by you:

4.8 million dollars a player? OH no no no no no no. Kid, you do not know anything about business.

Jerseys are made in Honduras. When imported into the US they're 5.00$ a jersey. They're marked up to 75 dollars, 80 dollars a jersey. To get 20,000 jerseys, it'd cost. 100,000$. Chump Change. Between the NBA and NFL, Reebok's production is around 1.4 million jerseys a month. Reebok looks to extract every dollar they can out of it's customers, and it's suppliers (in honduras... aside: they pay their workers ****. 15 cents per hour would change their life from poverty. but Reebok can't have that...).

What's really going on is that they're going to let it boil up a little bit more, and in the relative short future, you should expect to see Ocho Cinco Jerseys popping up.


has absolutely nothing to do with my original point, which you can see here:



I think they're doing it to set a precedent. It would be an absolute nightmare for these companies if multiple people did this.

However, in the case of 1 person - Chad Ocho Cinco - this is just bad business on Reebok's part. What if Chad or the Cincinnati Bengals choose not to buy the jerseys? Then they're going to sit on 100,000 Chad Johnson Jerseys, meanwhile not making any money off them or off the jerseys they could be selling that say Ocho Cinco on the back.

Again, if they made 100,000 jerseys of every star player in the league and it cost them 4.8 million dollars a player that means if 5 players change their name then Reebok is out 25 million dollars spent and and like another 25 million in what would be profit. But if they could see into the future and know that Chad Johnson was the only one that will change his name then I'm sure they would be less concerned about the 4.8 million they're losing and more concerned about the massive amounts of cash Ocho Cinco jerseys are going to make.


My original point was that they're doing this to set a precedent, it doesn't matter if it cost them 4.8 million dollars or 4.8 thousand dollars - they don't want players to change their names constantly because it costs them money.

But continue to argue semantics and quote snipe people. At least guys like Bruce Banner will think you're the intellectual juggernaut that can crush anyone on an internet forum that you "got to war with".

I wish there was a book called "Ad Hominem and you: Can't beat the point, beat the man!" - bruce banner knows what I mean :)

Bruce Banner
09-11-2008, 02:54 PM
I wish there was a book called "Ad Hominem and you: Can't beat the point, beat the man!" - bruce banner knows what I mean :)

Now would be a good time to purchase it.


At least guys like Bruce Banner will think you're the intellectual juggernaut


She is.

Bengalsrocket
09-11-2008, 02:57 PM
Now would be a good time to purchase it.



She is.


Hey maybe I had my own agenda here, but fact remains - you can slice my words any way you want, but unless you're going to take them in full context its pointless to even have a discussion.

Bruce Banner
09-11-2008, 02:58 PM
you can slice my words any way you want, but unless you're going to take them in full context its pointless to even have a discussion.

It just makes it easier.

One chink in the armor is all it takes.

(wow, this argument to war parallel is really going somewhere!)

Bengalsrocket
09-11-2008, 02:59 PM
It just makes it easier.

One chink in the armor is all it takes.

Makes what easier? because to me it looks like it just made it easier for her to miss my original point.

Bruce Banner
09-11-2008, 03:03 PM
Makes what easier? because to me it looks like it just made it easier for her to miss my original point.

Your original argument can be falsified by discrediting the supporting facts.

awfullyquiet
09-11-2008, 03:04 PM
All very good points. I'm not able to check all that math considering its the equations are all made up in your head, but fair enough if I'm not willing to truck through the research and figure it out then I guess I'll take your word for it.

But now that I've roped you into an entire argument about the cost of these jerseys (which btw, you did eventually bend to 26.5 dollars a jersey correct? or did I misread?)

Thereabouts... i put it in the 16-26 dollar range. If it's 16, that gives more money to Reebok, if it's 26, it gives more to the NFL (but not by much)

My original point was that they're doing this to set a precedent, it doesn't matter if it cost them 4.8 million dollars or 4.8 thousand dollars - they don't want players to change their names constantly because it costs them money.


They're doing it as a marketing ploy. Simple. To run with Chad Ochocinco is to inspire the media to run. And if it inspires ESPN, it inspires people, and therefore inspires sales. If they make chad johnson take a brunt of the cost (say, pay reebok cost + 10 dollars), they're making a sale, getting publicity, and in turn, re-selling even more jerseys to the same fan base. Planned Obsolescence. You have a chad johnson jersey already? Here's a Chad Ochocinco jersey! People will buy it. Precedence or not. Chad Ochocinco is a special case, an endorsed athlete, and a media hog. Absolutely perfect storm of combinations to allow this to happen. Now. It will only happen to Chad Ochocinco because Ochocinco commands it.

How hard would it be to make 10,000 new jerseys? One week at Han-Soll. Cost? 500,000 dollars. Profit selling Ochocinco and Johnson jerseys side by side? Greater. When you create controversy, you create needs. You're saying it's ridiculous and 'creates precedence'. I'm saying. Reebok doesn't have to say yes to just anyone. They do not abide by the same precedence laws that the US Government abides by. If they want to offer it to some people, but not to others, that's their perogative. This case is a goldmine to all parties involved, and no one's steping up to the plate.

Edit: I do understand the concern with "dead jerseys". Jerseys that don't sell. Chad Johnson/Ochocinco is not one of them.

Bengalsrocket
09-11-2008, 03:06 PM
Your original argument can be falsified by discrediting the supporting facts.

Not true. the supporting facts were just random variables. Like I said before, it doesn't really matter. Looking back, I should have just put X's and Y's in place of the numbers so people wouldn't get side tracked.

I guess I expected people to understand the meaning of my post without getting distracted by the numbers. (and I don't mean that in some 12 year old fashion passive aggressive crap).

Bruce Banner
09-11-2008, 03:07 PM
Not true. the supporting facts were just random variables. Like I said before, it doesn't really matter. Looking back, I should have just put X's and Y's in place of the numbers so people wouldn't get side tracked.

I guess I expected people to understand the meaning of my post without getting distracted by the numbers. (and I don't mean that in some 12 year old fashion passive aggressive crap).

Not going to lie, I barely skimmed any of the posts. Fuel to the fire I say!

and yes I was assuming the supporting facts weren't random variables.

Bengalsrocket
09-11-2008, 03:11 PM
Thereabouts... i put it in the 16-26 dollar range. If it's 16, that gives more money to Reebok, if it's 26, it gives more to the NFL (but not by much)



They're doing it as a marketing ploy. Simple. To run with Chad Ochocinco is to inspire the media to run. And if it inspires ESPN, it inspires people, and therefore inspires sales. If they make chad johnson take a brunt of the cost (say, pay reebok cost + 10 dollars), they're making a sale, getting publicity, and in turn, re-selling even more jerseys to the same fan base. Planned Obsolescence. You have a chad johnson jersey already? Here's a Chad Ochocinco jersey! People will buy it. Precedence or not. Chad Ochocinco is a special case, an endorsed athlete, and a media hog. Absolutely perfect storm of combinations to allow this to happen. Now. It will only happen to Chad Ochocinco because Ochocinco commands it.

How hard would it be to make 10,000 new jerseys? One week at Han-Soll. Cost? 500,000 dollars. Profit selling Ochocinco and Johnson jerseys side by side? Greater. When you create controversy, you create needs. You're saying it's ridiculous and 'creates precedence'. I'm saying. Reebok doesn't have to say yes to just anyone. They do not abide by the same precedence laws that the US Government abides by. If they want to offer it to some people, but not to others, that's their perogative. This case is a goldmine to all parties involved, and no one's steping up to the plate.

Edit: I do understand the concern with "dead jerseys". Jerseys that don't sell. Chad Johnson/Ochocinco is not one of them.


Great points again. This is great marketing for them and reduces the price of their jerseys (lol) because they get free marketing from people like ESPN who pick up this story.

I really think we agree more than we disagree here.

awfullyquiet
09-11-2008, 03:14 PM
If they were just 'variables'... you could have ended it right...


I realize that your high school probably just had a guest speaker come in and tell you that everything is made in a 3rd world country where the workers are underpaid so it only costs the companies 5 cents to make something, but that's simply not true (or at least the 5 cents part isn't).

THEY WERE JUST VARIABLES. I DID NOT MEAN THAT THAT WAS THE ACTUAL AMOUNT.


And we could have gone along our merry way.

But, you had to argue production costs as being 48 dollars, I countered with approximate values for the product delivery and probably costs of jerseys. And we wound up here, because you never said that you don't know how much Reebok makes on the jerseys. So I informed you a logical guess based on numerical evidence at how much a jersey costs, and the profit that Reebok and Modell's makes.

awfullyquiet
09-11-2008, 03:15 PM
Great points again. This is great marketing for them and reduces the price of their jerseys (lol) because they get free marketing from people like ESPN who pick up this story.

I really think we agree more than we disagree here.

But you said Reebok is doing it to prove precedence. I'm saying they're not doing it because they're creating more of a stir. If not for right now, for the next year's (or batch's) Jersey Cycles.

Bruce Banner
09-11-2008, 03:15 PM
If they were just 'variables'... you could have ended it right...

And we could have gone along our merry way.

But, you had to argue production costs as being 48 dollars, I countered with approximate values for the product delivery and probably costs of jerseys. And we wound up here, because you never said that you don't know how much Reebok makes on the jerseys. So I informed you a logical guess based on numerical evidence at how much a jersey costs, and the profit that Reebok and Modell's makes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL9ihXiFAko

Bengalsrocket
09-11-2008, 03:24 PM
If they were just 'variables'... you could have ended it right...




And we could have gone along our merry way.

But, you had to argue production costs as being 48 dollars, I countered with approximate values for the product delivery and probably costs of jerseys. And we wound up here, because you never said that you don't know how much Reebok makes on the jerseys. So I informed you a logical guess based on numerical evidence at how much a jersey costs, and the profit that Reebok and Modell's makes.

I thought it'd be fun to see where the argument went. If you had something better to be doing... well you would have been doing it :P - So I think maybe you had just as much fun.

I started you off that 5 dollars a jersey, and eventually you moved up to 8 and finally conceded at 16-26 dollars. I honestly ran out of things to move the price up, but thought I'd get there eventually - and outside of your word there's really no proof that it doesn't cost 48 dollars a jersey (which I admitted your word was better than mine, so I conceded).

Bengalsrocket
09-11-2008, 03:29 PM
But you said Reebok is doing it to prove precedence. I'm saying they're not doing it because they're creating more of a stir. If not for right now, for the next year's (or batch's) Jersey Cycles.

I agreed this "stir" is a great marketing tool (which is your point right?) and you agreed that dead jerseys is a concern for future players (though not ochocinco - which again, in my original post I said "But if they could see into the future and know that Chad Johnson was the only one that will change his name then I'm sure they would be less concerned about the 4.8 million they're losing and more concerned about the massive amounts of cash Ocho Cinco jerseys are going to make."). I realize Chad is a special case, and it has little to do with him.

awfullyquiet
09-11-2008, 03:46 PM
I agreed this "stir" is a great marketing tool (which is your point right?) and you agreed that dead jerseys is a concern for future players (though not ochocinco - which again, in my original post I said "But if they could see into the future and know that Chad Johnson was the only one that will change his name then I'm sure they would be less concerned about the 4.8 million they're losing and more concerned about the massive amounts of cash Ocho Cinco jerseys are going to make."). I realize Chad is a special case, and it has little to do with him.

Now, don't call reebok the fool here. Yes, we agree with that.

but...

However, in the case of 1 person - Chad Ocho Cinco - this is just bad business on Reebok's part. What if Chad or the Cincinnati Bengals choose not to buy the jerseys? Then they're going to sit on 100,000 Chad Johnson Jerseys, meanwhile not making any money off them or off the jerseys they could be selling that say Ocho Cinco on the back.

Agreed. But there aren't 100,000 chad johnson jerseys made this year. That was part one of the problem.


Again, if they made 100,000 jerseys of every star player in the league and it cost them 4.8 million dollars a player that means if 5 players change their name then Reebok is out 25 million dollars spent and and like another 25 million in what would be profit. But if they could see into the future and know that Chad Johnson was the only one that will change his name then I'm sure they would be less concerned about the 4.8 million they're losing and more concerned about the massive amounts of cash Ocho Cinco jerseys are going to make.

The problem is was that you were giving numbers that weren't anything close to right. Your argument here was that 'reebok will be out of much if they do this' was what i was banking more towards. That's where we disagreed, and that's where, you were trying to describe reebok losing a considerable sum of money over this, which, as i suggested by the 5 dollar cost per jersey (tops), isn't a tremendous loss on products in exchange for hype.

Bengalsrocket
09-11-2008, 03:53 PM
That they'd be out a lot money if multiple people did this. I specifically stated they wouldn't be out that much if it was just chad doing this.

does any of this make sense? I feel like we made a 3 page - soon to be 4 page - thread by just repeating ourselves over and over again.

I see your point; this is all just hype for Reebok.

Do you also see my point that this could potentially turn into a problem for Reebok if the circumstances changed? and yes I'll concede for the sake of our sanity that its more of an ulterior and alternate motive for their actions.

confirm / deny and we'll just end the conversation either way you answer!

Hawk
09-11-2008, 05:22 PM
This thread is more knowledgeable than my college marketing class.

awfullyquiet
09-11-2008, 06:51 PM
Do you also see my point that this could potentially turn into a problem for Reebok if the circumstances changed? and yes I'll concede for the sake of our sanity that its more of an ulterior and alternate motive for their actions.

I don't.

Sorry. Reebok holds the upper hand always and will always say no. Unless you're A) Brett Favre, B) Tony Romo, C) Peyton Manning, D) Tom Brady, or E) Chad Johnson.

Top 5 Jersey Sellers. If you are NOT one of them. You don't get a free pass. It's that easy.