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DMWSackMachine
09-10-2008, 08:54 PM
Don't know how many people here subscribe to ESPN Insider and thus have access to Scouts Inc. features, but check this out:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/scouting?gameId=280915006

They break each matchup down by position and give the nod to one team or the other. In this week's Dallas vs. Philly matchup they are giving Philly the nod at WR......rofl.

How do these guys still have jobs?

BeerBaron
09-10-2008, 09:01 PM
hmm. I'd say it goes TO > Eagles receivers, and then Crayton on par with them....

plus theres no TE category which the cowboys would easily win IMO, Witten is a beast. So if you add that to WR for this, the boys probably should get it.

Dam8610
09-10-2008, 09:01 PM
How in the world does Dallas get the DL advantage in that matchup? Or worse yet, coach?

BeerBaron
09-10-2008, 09:03 PM
It's all kinds of craziness i 'spose.....

so many "ifs" to try and break it up like this.

Iamcanadian
09-10-2008, 09:04 PM
Don't know how many people here subscribe to ESPN Insider and thus have access to Scouts Inc. features, but check this out:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/scouting?gameId=280915006

They break each matchup down by position and give the nod to one team or the other. In this week's Dallas vs. Philly matchup they are giving Philly the nod at WR......rofl.

How do these guys still have jobs?

It simple, they really don't have to defend their opinions and any controversy they create sells and they make more money. They are sport writers not scouts so why would anybody take what they say seriously.

ShutDwn
09-10-2008, 09:10 PM
They rated the Bears receivers better than the Panthers. Even without Smith Moose and Hackett are better.

Sniper
09-10-2008, 09:10 PM
Don't know how many people here subscribe to ESPN Insider and thus have access to Scouts Inc. features, but check this out:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/scouting?gameId=280915006

They break each matchup down by position and give the nod to one team or the other. In this week's Dallas vs. Philly matchup they are giving Philly the nod at WR......rofl.

How do these guys still have jobs?

Explain to me how Dallas has an advantage at RB, DL, DB and Coaching? Please? I'm begging for an explanation.

bored of education
09-10-2008, 09:17 PM
Typical Scouts Inc. Todd McShaw roolz

iowatreat54
09-10-2008, 09:19 PM
hmm. I'd say it goes TO > Eagles receivers, and then Crayton on par with them....

plus theres no TE category which the cowboys would easily win IMO, Witten is a beast. So if you add that to WR for this, the boys probably should get it.

but the Iggles have Desean Jax......

bearsfan_51
09-10-2008, 09:20 PM
They rated the Bears receivers better than the Panthers. Even without Smith Moose and Hackett are better.
We cut Moose and he's starting for you guys. I really don't think they are better at all. Marty Booker is our 4th receiver and I'd rather have him than Moose.

Sniper
09-10-2008, 09:20 PM
but the Iggles have Desean Jax......

DESEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I fully admit the WR category is wrong (albeit they probably skewed it because of last week's trifecta of 100 yard receivers) but seriously, someone explain to me how the Cowboys have an edge at RB, DL, DB, and Coaching.

TheBuffaloBills
09-10-2008, 09:23 PM
This is violation of rule number 4. We aren't allowed to post things from insiders.


Other than that, It is obsurd to say Dallas has a better coach. Scouts inc. probably saw one episode of "Hard Knocks" and thought Wade was a good coach. I like Barber, but I think Westbrook deserves the nod on this one.

Sniper
09-10-2008, 09:24 PM
This is violation of rule number 4. We aren't allowed to post things from insiders.


Other than that, It is obsurd to say Dallas has a better coach. Scouts inc. probably saw one episode of "Hard Knocks" and thought Wade was a good coach. I like Barber, but I think Westbrook deserves the nod on this one.

He posted the free part.

bored of education
09-10-2008, 09:25 PM
Barber + Felix =/= Westy

I dunno

BeerBaron
09-10-2008, 09:25 PM
DESEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I fully admit the WR category is wrong (albeit they probably skewed it because of last week's trifecta of 100 yard receivers) but seriously, someone explain to me how the Cowboys have an edge at RB, DL, DB, and Coaching.

well, not that i think i believe this, but a possible explaination is that at RB, having 2 more tradition backs in Barber and Jones gave the cowboys the advantage in their mind. and then DL...idfk....maybe they counted Ware as a DE, who knows. DB....idk. maybe they just prefer Newman, Henry, and Pacman to the eagles guys i'm too lazy to list. And maybe they still buy into the whole ROy Williams thing....

**** if I know. coaching.....idk either. maybe they think Reid throws too much (he does, lol)

BeerBaron
09-10-2008, 09:29 PM
This is violation of rule number 4. We aren't allowed to post things from insiders.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/BeerBaron/ohnoguy.jpg

Oh Noooo!

skinzzfan25
09-10-2008, 09:29 PM
Westbrook > Dallas

Sniper
09-10-2008, 09:29 PM
well, not that i think i believe this, but a possible explaination is that at RB, having 2 more tradition backs in Barber and Jones gave the cowboys the advantage in their mind. and then DL...idfk....maybe they counted Ware as a DE, who knows. DB....idk. maybe they just prefer Newman, Henry, and Pacman to the eagles guys i'm too lazy to list. And maybe they still buy into the whole ROy Williams thing....

**** if I know. coaching.....idk either. maybe they think Reid throws too much (he does, lol)

I'm not aiming this at you, but...

RB- Jones hasn't proven ****. Correll Buckhalter averaged 5 yards per carry last year and Jones is a rookie.
DE- If Ware is in it, maybe. Though Trent Cole isn't too far behind if Ware is a DE.
DB- Samuel, Lito, Brown, Dawkins, Mikell>>>Henry, Newman, Jones, Hamlin. I refuse to consider Roy Williams a DB.
Coach- Reid throws too much, but he's still got a buttload of division titles, one NFC title, and a lot more playoff experience. He also came within 3 points of a Super Bowl title. Wade Phillips? Not so much.

ESPN- The Cowboys Television Network

Sniper
09-10-2008, 09:30 PM
Westbrook > Dallas

Correct. Westbrook is the ****, period. End o' story.

BeerBaron
09-10-2008, 09:31 PM
Correct. Westbrook is the ****, period. End o' story.

once again:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/BeerBaron/ohnoguy.jpg

Oh Noooo!

comahan
09-10-2008, 09:43 PM
I didnt know people still said "n00bs".

ShutDwn
09-10-2008, 10:09 PM
We cut Moose and he's starting for you guys. I really don't think they are better at all. Marty Booker is our 4th receiver and I'd rather have him than Moose.


The Dolphins cut Booker and he is starting for you guys.

I am pretty content with Moose starting for us, I'll take 6 catches for 56 yards all day.

BlindSite
09-10-2008, 10:31 PM
In fact I'll take Rosario, Moose and Hackett over Olson, Booker and Lloyd based on what they showed in the preseason and last week.

bearsfan_51
09-11-2008, 12:31 AM
Booker isn't starting for us. He saw like 4 plays on Sunday. It really doesn't matter, both receiving core suck IMO, but it's definately not worth pointing out like it's a big deal. The difference is, at best, marginal.

DMWSackMachine
09-11-2008, 02:15 AM
Some interesting points. Some of these matchups decisions are fairly debatable. For example, I wouldn't be opposed to anyone making the argument that the Eagles take the RB position, although an equally strong one for Barber/Felix (not to mention our superior FB) can be made as well.

But, as has been pointed out, the Eagles getting the nod at WR is an absolute "wtf, where am I?" moment. It is so far beyond any rational or deductive means of substantiation that it literally makes the mind implode upon itself with the sheer weight of its idiocy. This is, quite literally, enough to warrant losing one's job.

More than that, however, this is a broad pattern of behavior. There have been dozens of times where I've perused their matchup pages and seen absolutely preposterous statements of superiority regarding a clearly inferior unit. Like the time when--iirc--they had the Lions fielding the better DL in a matchup with a fully healthy Bears team a year or two back. Its just mind boggling. They should recieve enough hate email to sink a large aircraft carrier for publishing crap like that. It truly is a joke.

CC.SD
09-11-2008, 03:22 AM
If they actually said that Wade Phillips was a better coach than Andy Reid, that is an absolute travesty. Does that even need to be explained?

Brent
09-11-2008, 06:47 AM
Wait, you pay for ESPN Insider? I believe that makes you the "noob".

Sniper
09-11-2008, 06:51 AM
Wait, you pay for ESPN Insider? I believe that makes you the "noob".

You get it fore free when you have a subscription to ESPN The Magazine, a magazine which I enjoy reading.

eaglesalltheway
09-11-2008, 07:27 AM
Well, ignoring homerism as best as possible here.

QB matchup: I can live with that.

RB: WTF? Westy is the second best RB in the NFL and though I like what Dallas has, we have good options behind him as well. As said before, Buckhalter had 5.0 ypc last year and is looking great again. Plus we have a super versatile weapon in Booker. Marion Barber has a nimor injury, and though it probably isn't a big deal at all. If he gets a solid shot to the ribs again that could result in some missed time for the Barbarian. (love the kid and despite him being a cowboy, love him as a player.)

WR-This is actually closer than you might think , and here is my reasoning...
Yes TO is leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of our WRs, and Crayton is a solid option for a #2, but after that, the Cowboys are average at best for their WRs.

I look at it this way...
TO>>>Either one who you consider our #1 WR. Fro the sake of the argument, Curtis. Shouldn't need explanation
Crayton>Jackson- Barely, and maybe not for long
Hurd<Brown- Reggie, though not a #1, is a solid WR
Stanbeck< Avant. Though he doesn't have blazing speed, he has the quickness, hands, and route running of a great slot WR.
Sorry forget his name right now, but I rmeember the player< Baskett or Lewis. You can choose. Either one is better than him. (Sorry for the name flub, I do this all the time)
At the top, the cowboys have a definate advantage, but our depth is better, as a matter of fact, if you put any of our bottom WRs on Dallas' bottom 3, they would be better. Plus we have an extra one;).

If there was a TE matchup it owuld go to Dallas hands down.

OL-agreed

DL-No. Like it was said before, maybe Ware was considered in the DL mix, but even then, we still have the advantage.

LB-Gave ti to Dallas, and I can see it, also not for long IMO

DBs- Absolutley horrible. We have the better group of CBs (still ignoring homerism) and a better Free Safety in Dawk. Mikell is better in coverage (by far) than Roy, and is good in run support. We have the advantage everywhere here. I do not understand this. The only argument is that Scandrick has looked promising, and Jenkins is a rookie with potential, but they figure to have a small impact.

Coaching- Huh? Maybe they figured since Jason Garrett is there they figured they would add him as a coach to Phillips, but we have great coordinators and position coaches as well.

ST- Agreed, but Pacman is a threat to return one at any time.

Now that I wasted a good portion of my life on this, none of it is even imprtant. The matchups shoudl be Offensive groups vs Defensive groups, not O vs O and D vs D, they will never be on the field at the same time.

Sniper
09-11-2008, 07:29 AM
ST- Agreed, but Pacman is a threat to return one at any time.



WHAT ABOUT TEH DESEANZZZZZZZ?

eaglesalltheway
09-11-2008, 07:31 AM
WHAT ABOUT TEH DESEANZZZZZZZ?

Yeah him too, but it isn't like Dallas doesn't have threats to return it either, and they usually have a good coverage team.

Sniper
09-11-2008, 07:39 AM
Yeah him too, but it isn't like Dallas doesn't have threats to return it either, and they usually have a good coverage team.

I was kidding. Dallas' kicker and punter are far superior to their Philly counterparts, and until Jackson proves himself, Jones is a superior returner.

iowatreat54
09-11-2008, 10:00 AM
the only problem I have with that assessment is that TO is better than all the WR on Philly put together...so regardless if you break it down WR #1 vs. WR #1, #2 vs. #2, etc., the amount that TO is ahead is so much that the rest of the matchups don't really matter, plus Crayton is at least as good as all of Philly's receivers...they may not have talented depth, but that doesn't mean they aren't better overall

Matthew Jones
09-11-2008, 10:46 AM
qb - cowboys
rb - cowboys
wr - cowboys
ol - cowboys
dl - eagles
lb - cowboys
db - eagles
st - eagles
coach - eagles

Gay Ork Wang
09-11-2008, 10:49 AM
qb - cowboys
rb - Eagles
wr - cowboys
ol - cowboys
dl - eagles
lb - cowboys
db - eagles
st - Cowboys
coach - eagles

eaglesalltheway
09-11-2008, 10:55 AM
But everyone is missing the piont. It doesn't matter if our WRs (for example) are better than theirs. They don't play against eachother. The matchups, such as WR and CB (for example) are more important.

MetSox17
09-11-2008, 11:09 AM
But everyone is missing the piont. It doesn't matter if our WRs (for example) are better than theirs. They don't play against eachother. The matchups, such as WR and CB (for example) are more important.

Correct, and our DB's>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>^(oo) Your WR's.

And I what's with the Cowboys DL hate? Jay Ratliff is better than Bunkley or Patterson. Chris Canty >>> Trent Cole. Spears is a stud run stuffer. It's close, and a matter of opinion, but it's not some huge travesty that they picked our DL over yours.

eaglesalltheway
09-11-2008, 11:41 AM
Correct, and our DB's>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>^(oo) Your WR's.

And I what's with the Cowboys DL hate? Jay Ratliff is better than Bunkley or Patterson. Chris Canty >>> Trent Cole. Spears is a stud run stuffer. It's close, and a matter of opinion, but it's not some huge travesty that they picked our DL over yours.

22 >'s is just too much, 18 fits though, haha.

Seriously though. If you would leave that at CBs, it is definitely in favor of you, and as a whole, the DBs are better. But like I have said before, in this situation, Newman isn't 100%, though still he will be very good, and for whatever reason, Henry doesn't play well against us. Though our WRs are not as good as your DBs, we always (not really always, but I think you know what I mean) seem to be able to take advantage of them. I think Roy and Westy are main contributors as to why our WRs usually don't have horrible games vs the boys. I agree it isn't a travesty that they picked your DL, but I don't agree with it, and besides Tank Johnson, you don't have much depth like we do.

Edit: just realized you may have been trying to do the infinity symbol, haha.

eaglesalltheway
09-11-2008, 11:44 AM
But I think it isn't a travesty they picked our WRs either, as I explained why before. Despite what some people say in terms of TO being better than the Eagles combined worth at WR, It really isn't a ood way to base the two groups.

DMWSackMachine
09-11-2008, 12:53 PM
If you don't think that its a travesty, you simply know nothing about football. The Cowboys have one of the top 3 or 4 WR corps in the NFL. The Eagles have one of the bottom 5. Its that simple.

As for your analysis of our depth, you are quite simply in the dark. Hurd and Austin are a better duo than Baskett and Brown. But even if what you said was true, you are trying to give equal (or close to it) weight to the quality of a 3rd and 4th receiver as compared to a 1 and 2? That is so ludicrous I won't even bother to refute it.

As for the Dallas vs. Philly breakdown, I see it like this:

QB: Dallas
RB: Philly
WR: Dallas
OL: Dallas
DL: Dallas
LB: Dallas
DB: Dallas
ST: Even
Coach: Philly

Dallas' DBs are the best in the league, and I'm not accepting any arguments. Newman is probably the best coverman in the NFL right now. Henry and Sheldon are roughly equal, Pac is miles better than Lito and we have to excellent young contributors at 4 and 5 that elevate us beyond what anyone in the league can boast at the position. Safety is up in the air. Roy is bad in coverage, yes, but he simply doesn't get stuck in positions that he is exposed any more. As a run stuffing SS he is as good as there is in the league right now. Hamlin has been playing at a PB level since arriving with us, and has surpassed Dawkins, who has lost more than just a step and is fading into irrelevancy.

Its really not debatable.

Go_Eagles77
09-11-2008, 02:03 PM
Bottom 5? Are you kidding me? The rams may be bad but they aren't the worst secondary in the history of the league, so having your 3rd, 4th, and 5th receiver each go over 100 yards is much more of an accomplishment than you give it credit for. Once Curtis and Brown return I'd put it in the top 15. And the cowboys are not even close to top 3 or 4, that's hysterical, after T.O. your WR core is beyond mediocre. And lol at "Pac is miles better than Lito" seriously wtf is that? Being a Dallas fan you should know first hand that Lito is a great corner, he has owned T.O. almost every single time he plays you. You are a massive homer and by just saying "I'm not accepting any arguments" tells me that you are such a homer you won't let any one tell you that your precious team isn't the best in the league.

MetSox17
09-11-2008, 08:08 PM
Edit: just realized you may have been trying to do the infinity symbol, haha.

I was indeed trying to say that it was to the infinitieth power lol.

tEk
09-11-2008, 08:13 PM
I didnt know people still said "n00bs".what are you new?

DMWSackMachine
09-12-2008, 12:03 AM
Bottom 5? Are you kidding me? The rams may be bad but they aren't the worst secondary in the history of the league, so having your 3rd, 4th, and 5th receiver each go over 100 yards is much more of an accomplishment than you give it credit for. Once Curtis and Brown return I'd put it in the top 15. And the cowboys are not even close to top 3 or 4, that's hysterical, after T.O. your WR core is beyond mediocre. And lol at "Pac is miles better than Lito" seriously wtf is that? Being a Dallas fan you should know first hand that Lito is a great corner, he has owned T.O. almost every single time he plays you. You are a massive homer and by just saying "I'm not accepting any arguments" tells me that you are such a homer you won't let any one tell you that your precious team isn't the best in the league.

Yes, bottom 5, and take it to the bank. Go ahead and poll the site here and see where your team ranks. I guarantee you don't find any non Eagle fan willing to put them in the top half of the league, and I would expect the final tally to be around 25-28. Let's do a quick look-see.

Absolutely no question better than Philly:

NE
Indy
Arizona
Cincinnati
Dallas
Houston
Denver
GB
Detroit
NO
Carolina
Cleveland
Pittsburgh
NYJ
NYG

Significantly better:

STL
Buffalo
Atlanta
Seattle (when healthy)
KC
SD

Teams that are obviously worse off:

SF
Miami
Chicago
Tennessee

So that leaves Philly grouped in with the following 6 teams:

Baltimore
Jax
Oakland
Washington
Minny
Tampa Bay


Of the 6, I would personally put Philly 3rd or 4th, behind Washington and Tampa for sure and maybe Oakland, but you could make a decent argument either way that these teams could be ranked in any order. So that would put Philly anywhere between 22 and 28.

While there may be some dissension from this order, I think most knowledgeable fans would generally agree with this. Philly has awful wideouts, and if you think that a 2nd round rookie who had a strong preseason and 1st game is going to change that, you are up in the night. Homer? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. You just tried to argue that the superiority of Hand Baskett and Reggie Brown over Sam Hurd and Miles Austin (which is debatable and probably not even true, but lets say it is for arguments sake) is enough, or nearly enough, to make up the gap between the duos of Terrell Owens(a top 10, maybe even top 3 WR of All-Time who is still at the top of his game)/Patrick Crayton and Kevin Curtis/Desean Jackson. Feeling like crawling in a hole yet?


You should.

Sniper
09-12-2008, 07:53 AM
[/quote]And I what's with the Cowboys DL hate? Jay Ratliff is better than Bunkley or Patterson. Chris Canty >>> Trent Cole. Spears is a stud run stuffer. It's close, and a matter of opinion, but it's not some huge travesty that they picked our DL over yours.[/quote]

Jay Ratliff is better than Patterson or Bunkley? Ah, okay. Whatever your homerism tells you. And it's weird, but I could have sworn I saw Trent Cole and his 12.5 sacks at the Pro Bowl last year. Canty must have missed his flight. It absolutely is a huge travesty that they picked the Cowboys' DL. Canty can't hold Cole's jock. Patterson led all DTs in the league in tackles last year. Bunkley is superior to Spears.



Hurd and Austin are a better duo than Baskett and Brown.

Wow, your homerism knows no bounds. Absolutely amazing. Austin had ZERO catches in his CAREER before this season. 0. Goose egg. Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch.

Let's compare these receivers from last year.

Austin: Nothing.
Hurd: 19/314/16.5/1

Baskett: 16/142/8.9/1
Brown: 61/780/4

Not to mention, Brown and Baskett have SIGNIFICANTLY better numbers over the course of their careers.

As for the Dallas vs. Philly breakdown, I see it like this:

QB: Dallas
RB: Philly
WR: Dallas
OL: Dallas
DL: Dallas
LB: Dallas
DB: Dallas
ST: Even
Coach: Philly

Really? Dallas has a better defensive line? Uh, just see my argument to MetSox's ridiculous post.

Dallas' DBs are the best in the league, and I'm not accepting any arguments.[/quote[

I'd say the same thing if I claimed they were and they actually weren't.

[qiuote]Newman is probably the best coverman in the NFL right now.

Except when he's not.

Henry and Sheldon are roughly equal, Pac is miles better than Lito

Really? A corner who hasn't played in a year is better than Lito? Bull ******* ****. Lito kills the Cowboys. 8 of his 17 career picks have been against Dallas. That's almost half! He's a 2x Pro Bowl corner ('04, '06). Pacman? Not so much. Pacman isn't in Lito's league, let alone "miles ahead".Our combo of Asante Samuel (most INTs in the past two years), Lito Sheppard (see above) and Sheldon Brown is better than Terrence Newman (although he's really good), Anthony Henry and a guy who has played one game in the past year. Give me a break man. It's not even close.

Safety is up in the air.
No it's not.

Hamlin has been playing at a PB level since arriving with us, and has surpassed Dawkins, who has lost more than just a step and is fading into irrelevancy.


Except Dawkins was hurt last year and played at a Pro Bowl level the year before. Hamlin can't hold a healthy Dawk's jock.

MetSox17
09-12-2008, 08:15 AM
Jay Ratliff is better than Patterson or Bunkley? Ah, okay. Whatever your homerism tells you. And it's weird, but I could have sworn I saw Trent Cole and his 12.5 sacks at the Pro Bowl last year. Canty must have missed his flight. It absolutely is a huge travesty that they picked the Cowboys' DL. Canty can't hold Cole's jock. Patterson led all DTs in the league in tackles last year. Bunkley is superior to Spears.

LOL, okay, let's use sack stats to compare 3-4 DL to 4-3 ones. :rolleyes:

Chris Canty is the best 3-4 DE in the game, next to Richard Seymour. Luis Castillo is also up there, but that's it. He's a beast. Pressures the passer and stops the run through constant double teams. It's not even close. Cole's a one trick pony. Those are a dime a dozen. Ratliff creates more pressure and penetration than your guys, being an undersized 3-4 NT, than your guys do in a 4-3. Spears is better than whatever it is you start opposite Cole at end. Dallas led Philly in all the major defensive stat categories outside of PPG (Pass YPG, Rush YPG, Tot YPG, Sacks). Now just about when you face the fact that Lito is trash, and Dawkins is not what he used to be, you'll realize that Dallas is the better team.

And funny how you're showing the stats of your 2nd and 3rd WR options last year, when compared to our 3rd and 4th LOL.

Gay Ork Wang
09-12-2008, 08:52 AM
Aaron Smith > Chris Canty

MetSox17
09-12-2008, 01:22 PM
Aaron Smith > Chris Canty

If Smith can come back to form after his injury decimated season, then he'll be up there as well. But not right now.

Go_Eagles77
09-12-2008, 01:52 PM
Feeling like crawling in a hole yet?


You should.

Here you go again with the smug elitist attitude. This is why the majority of cowboys fans are the most hated in the league. You proved nothing to me with this post other than I can consider you in that category . I guess we'll see Monday who has the better team.

Go_Eagles77
09-12-2008, 01:54 PM
And funny how you're showing the stats of your 2nd and 3rd WR options last year, when compared to our 3rd and 4th LOL.

Why don't you at least read the post, DMW said Hurd/Austin is better than Brown/Baskett which is ridiculous and laughable, Sniper wasn't the first one to bring them up. Neither of them probably would even make the eagles roster let alone warrant being 2nd and 3rd on the depth chart.

giantsfan
09-12-2008, 02:55 PM
qb - cowboys
rb - cowboys
wr - cowboys
ol - cowboys
dl - eagles
lb - cowboys
db - eagles
st - eagles
coach - eagles

You must be out of your damn mind.

DMWSackMachine
09-12-2008, 03:00 PM
You can't see the forest for your homerism here. This is a text book case of a fan simply over-valuing their border line vets and up-and-coming young players. You think its elitism, but really its just absolute disgust at your indefensible opinions. If you really want to argue that Curtis/Jackson/Brown/Baskett are better than any receiving corps including a HOFer and stud like TO--forget about the other good players paired with him--you should immediately have your NFLDC card revoked. Its simply pathetic.


Finally, you know somewhere between little and nothing about Hurd or Austin. Both have received very little opportunity because of the other playmakers that the Cowboys possess. But Hurd will be an excellent 2nd or 3rd option for a long time in this league, and if he ever gets a good opportunity I believe he will have at least a few 1000 yard seasons at some point in his career.

Austin, on the other hand, is a lot more raw, but also much more talented. He has the potential to be a #1 WR, but he also could flame out and be out of the league. In preseason, he was coming on strong before spraining his MCL. Of course, we have no idea how he will pan out, but right now I would take him miles ahead of Baskett, based both upon upside/potential and production. We'll begin to see on Monday.

But I'm done trying to talk sense to you. I guess you'll just have to learn the hard way.

Go_Eagles77
09-12-2008, 03:09 PM
I never even stated that the eagles have the better WR core, but if you take out the #1 receiver of each, I'd take the eagles. Sure I may not know a lot about Austin and Hurd, but it's pretty clear you don't know much about the eagles WRs either. I really can't take your opinion seriously considering some of the other things you have said such as Pacman being better than Sheppard, lets see your argument there.

eaglesalltheway
09-12-2008, 03:52 PM
Hey guys, this really is gonna go nowhere. The only thing I will say is looking at production, the Eagles have the advantage. But like DSW said, the cowboy receivers lower on the depth chart have had less opportunity ( though with Glenn out last year they definitely should have had some). I say we just stop it now, and the game this weekend will not prove who's WRs are better, it will prove who's team, as a whole, played better.

DMWSackMachine
09-12-2008, 03:55 PM
And I what's with the Cowboys DL hate? Jay Ratliff is better than Bunkley or Patterson. Chris Canty >>> Trent Cole. Spears is a stud run stuffer. It's close, and a matter of opinion, but it's not some huge travesty that they picked our DL over yours.

Jay Ratliff is better than Patterson or Bunkley? Ah, okay. Whatever your homerism tells you. And it's weird, but I could have sworn I saw Trent Cole and his 12.5 sacks at the Pro Bowl last year. Canty must have missed his flight. It absolutely is a huge travesty that they picked the Cowboys' DL. Canty can't hold Cole's jock. Patterson led all DTs in the league in tackles last year. Bunkley is superior to Spears.



Really? Dallas has a better defensive line? Uh, just see my argument to MetSox's ridiculous post.

Yes, Ratliff is better than Patterson or Bunkley. He is a better pass rusher and a better run defender. I think that covers it. Still, I don't entirely agree with MetSox post here. As players, Cole and Canty can't really be compared here. They play different positions entirely. But, honestly, do you really want to start bringing up Pro Bowls as evidence here? You know where that will lead. You can be smarter than that, c'mon.

Overall, Dallas' DL is primarily responsible to stop the run and push the pocket. Seeing as how Dallas and Philly were nearly identical against the run last year, I would say its fair to assume roughly equal ability in that phase.

If you're going to compare DLs, though, you have to try to match players with similar responsibilities. Seeing as how Dallas really has two players who share the responsibilities of one DE and one LB between them, we should take the combined pass rushing prowess of Ware and Ellis and divide by 2 to get the final piece of the DL puzzle for Dallas. That tips the scales in favor of the Cowboys. I will acknowledge that this one is close, but seeing as how Dallas was VASTLY superior at getting pressure on the QB last year, I'll have to take them for now.


Wow, your homerism knows no bounds. Absolutely amazing. Austin had ZERO catches in his CAREER before this season. 0. Goose egg. Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch.

Let's compare these receivers from last year.

Austin: Nothing.
Hurd: 19/314/16.5/1

Baskett: 16/142/8.9/1
Brown: 61/780/4

Not to mention, Brown and Baskett have SIGNIFICANTLY better numbers over the course of their careers.

You want to use numbers? You really want to? Because this debate was initially sparked by your home boy there claiming that its not that far of a stretch to say that Philly WR> Dallas WR. Let's look at THAT comparison:

Dallas WR:

Owens: 81/1355/15
Crayton: 50/697/7
Hurd: 19/314/1
Total: 150/2366/23

Philly WR:
Curtis: 70/1110/6
Brown: 61/780/4
Baskett: 23/267/2

Total: 153/2157/12

So, all told, Dallas WRs posted over 200 more yards and a whopping ELEVEN TDs on less completions and FAR less attempts (I don't have the Scientific Football data here for attempts, but I am positive that Philly's WR got substantially more attempts thrown their way than Dallas' did). And all of this is without including Dallas TOP PASSING WEAPON (in terms of attempts), Jason Witten, who is--I assume--being excluded from this argument. Otherwise the debate would go from "patently ridiculous" to "farce" in the blink of an eye.


However, all of this also neglects the most important point. STATS ALONE AREN'T THE MEASURE OF QUALITY OR FUTURE PRODUCTION. That's why its not fair to try and compare two guys (Hurd and Austin) who got very little opportunity, with two guys who got tons of it (and I really like how you try to slip Brown's production as a co-#1--or at least #2--in as proof for him being the better player over a guy who was getting maybe 15 offensive plays a game; good form there) like Brown and Baskett did. Again, a team with Owens and Witten--two of the best to ever play their position--is going to get them the ball at the expense of other lesser players. Throw in Crayton--who was already gobbling up much of the leftovers--and there is next to nothing left for Hurd, let alone Austin.

Much of my opinions here are based upon simple observation. I have watched all players involved a ton. Brown looks like a solid option who will stick in the league, but those who hoped he would become a go-to guy for McNabb have to be disappointed. Baskett is barely in the league at this point. While Hurd is a good player who has a tireless work ethic and has improved consistently since coming into the league. Again, Austin is loaded with potential, and I think he has come far enough to where he will begin showing it this year.

*Shrug* I don't really care to get into an argument about 3rd and 4th options here, though. My point was simply that its not a no-contest here. I won't be mortally offended at someone claiming the Eagles 3rd and 4th being better than ours, but I will laugh at anyone saying that its a large gap. Let alone it being enough to account for the MAAAAASSSSIIIIIVVVVVEEEEE difference between TO/Crayton and Curtis/Jackson.

Maybe you should spend less time blindly taking sides with your boy and more time trying to prevent him from making a fool out of himself. Just sayin.







Except when he's not.



Really? A corner who hasn't played in a year is better than Lito? Bull ******* ****. Lito kills the Cowboys. 8 of his 17 career picks have been against Dallas. That's almost half! He's a 2x Pro Bowl corner ('04, '06). Pacman? Not so much. Pacman isn't in Lito's league, let alone "miles ahead".Our combo of Asante Samuel (most INTs in the past two years), Lito Sheppard (see above) and Sheldon Brown is better than Terrence Newman (although he's really good), Anthony Henry and a guy who has played one game in the past year. Give me a break man. It's not even close.

So now we measure a player by how he plays against one team? Orly? So if I was talking to a St. Louis fan I could contend that Patrick Crayton is one of the best WRs in the league, based upon his 7/180/2 performance last year? That's fresh.

The bottom line is that Lito gets burned a ton. He's been good at times in his career, but he spends more time injured, complaining, or getting burned than he does playing good football. Last season he wasn't even playing like an NFL starter. So, yes, I would rather have a penitent and motivated Adam Jones--who has never had any injury issues and was borderline dominant in his last full season with Tennessee--than an overrated, injury-prone, and ego-inflated piece of toast. Call me funny.

As Sheldon and Henry is nearly even. I would be willing to give Sheldon the nod on the strength of Henry's injury problems.

As for Newman vs. Samuel...I think you guys are going to rue the day you gave him that contract. He gets beat enough to make him JAG unless he is making big plays back the other way. If those dry up, you can look forward to plenty of CUT ASANTE threads on your home board, trust me. This will just take time, so we'll wait. But even then, there is no arguing that Asante has been in Newman's league coverage-wise. The Ints are the only thing keeping it remotely close.

After that, Dallas has a 4th and 5th CB that could each start for a dozen teams in the league, and would instantly become the best nickel CBs on all but 3 or 4 teams in the league. Of course you don't realize this, but its the truth all the same. It will come to your attention eventually.


Except Dawkins was hurt last year and played at a Pro Bowl level the year before. Hamlin can't hold a healthy Dawk's jock.

No, Dawkins wasn't "hurt", he started to break down. There's a difference. And the year before he DID NOT play at a PB level. The simple proof of that is the fact that he didn't make it. With his name recognition and status in the league, he certainly would have made it had he played up to it. Not to mention he just didn't. I watched, and he didn't.

eaglesalltheway
09-12-2008, 03:55 PM
I really wanted to bust out some of my views, but I know that it will do nothing. We are all caught in the "homer forest". I'm sruprised none of the Eagles or Cowboy members have gotten suspensions/banned this week. Lots of tension in an important game with an intense rivalry.

Prince 561
09-12-2008, 03:59 PM
If you're going to compare DLs, though, you have to try to match players with similar responsibilities. Seeing as how Dallas really has two players who share the responsibilities of one DE and one LB between them, we should take the combined pass rushing prowess of Ware and Ellis and divide by 2 to get the final piece of the DL puzzle for Dallas. That tips the scales in favor of the Cowboys. I will acknowledge that this one is close, but seeing as how Dallas was VASTLY superior at getting pressure on the QB last year, I'll have to take them for now.

hahahahahahaha

eaglesalltheway
09-12-2008, 04:05 PM
DSW, just stop please. I'm not saying this to be rude, but come on man, this is old, and you are reaking of stenchy, stenchy homer odor as bad, if not worse, than anybody right now. I will not comment on your last "Cowboy Bible", but I will discourage the other Eagles fans from doing so. I'm sure they will anyway, though.

It is a waste of your time Eagles fans, we won't be able to change his (or any other cowboy fans') opinion of their team, just like we won't have our opinions changed by them.

I will say this though DSW, you can't just add two LBs production (even if you split it in half) to the DL, but even if you are going to do that, you should at least take away what they do from the LBs then.

DMWSackMachine
09-12-2008, 04:23 PM
Absolutely you should. All I'm saying is that in order to make an apples to apples comparison, you must try to compare players who are doing the same types of things. Since Ware and Ellis combined spend about 40% of their times doing what most 4-3 LBs do, you should take how that 40% and compare it to other LBs, while taking the other piece of the pie and comparing it to DEs. Its not a perfect solution by a long shot, but it is the best alternative we have.

Also, while I am sure you are interpreting a lot of what I'm saying as homerism, I think you will see what I'm talking about in the coming months. Dallas secondary is not only better than Philly's, but there is a decent chance it will end up being the best of this decade. Again, that sounds like an extreme statement, but its something that I am confident in. Philly fans should be proud of their secondary, because it looks impressive as well. Just not on the same level as the Cowboy's.

Prince 561
09-12-2008, 04:25 PM
Dallas secondary is not only better than Philly's, but there is a decent chance it will end up being the best of this decade.

Opinion duly noted and discarded.

eaglesalltheway
09-12-2008, 04:53 PM
Dallas secondary is not only better than Philly's, but there is a decent chance it will end up being the best of this decade. Again, that sounds like an extreme statement, but its something that I am confident in. Philly fans should be proud of their secondary, because it looks impressive as well. Just not on the same level as the Cowboy's.

Uhhh, you had to go there. We'll break this down, one by one for you.

Asante vs. Newman. These are two very good CBs, both are in the top ten in the leagues at their position. Asante is more of a playmaker historically, and has already shown that as an Eagle. He fits in the system and there are no worries about the transition. He was heard from three times last week that is it, and you know what those three times were? Pass deflections. Newman is a great cover corner, no doubt, and he sticks do his man like glue. He improved on his playmaking ability last year but still historicall, nowhere near Asante.

Advantage: Asante

Sheldon vs. Henry. Both more of the physical style CB and both are above average CBs in the NFL. They are eqaul in coverage. Sheldon is a monster in run support, but Henry isn't in on nearly as many run plays. I don't know if it is because of Roy coming in and taking plays away from him but for whatever reason, Henry doesn't have the balance to his game that Sheldon does. Plus, there is no debating Sheldon hits harder (and smart) than any other CB, let alone Henry.

Advantage: Sheldon

Lito vs. Jones. Both are very talented CBs and both are dnagerous with the ball inthere hands. Yeah Lito's been injured, but he has played more than Pacman in the last year, so both of those are negated, if you want to look at it that way. When Lito is healthy and Pacman is back into his normal rythym, both are very good CBs, and I agree Jones had a great season his last year in Tenessee. But Lito is one of the gamebreaking CBs when he is healthy. Lito is healthy and he is back. Jones is back and he is behaving, but right now, Lito is still the better overall CB.

Advantage: Lito

I'm not going to even get into the 4th and 5th CBs for many reasons. For one they have little impact in the game besides special teams, and two they aren't on the field much at all. But you saying that any of your palyers are great just not given the chance is like saying Tyson Thompson would have gone to the Pro-Bowl given the chance.

Dawkins vs Hamlin. Dawkins, despite losign a step or two, is still an elite safety in this league. Hamlin is also a very good all around safety, but he is a natural SS, that is where he played in Seattle, and that is where he would play for Dallas if it weren't for Roy Williams. He has the speed and athletecism though to make up for his experience as a FS. Yes Dawk has lost a step, but there is no doubting that he was a whole flight of steps ahead of Hamlin at this time last year. Dawk went down some, and Hamlin went up some. But Dawk still covers nearly as good as he did two years ago, hits just as hard, and supports the run very well. Hamlin is good in coverage and supports the run well, but he doesn't hit like Dawk.

Advantage: Neither, it is even.

Mikell vs. Williams. Mikell has come on strong in the last few years, and has shown that he can be a great SS. Roy Williams (one of my favorite players in the NFL, believe it or not) has sort of faded away in the last few years. Always a monster in run support, Williams has the advantage there easily, but that doesn't mean Mikell is poor in those situations. He would come in for running situations last year, and has shown that he is very good against the run, albeit not to the calibut of Roy Williams. But Mikell is much better in coverage than Roy, and there is no debating that. Mikell sticks to his man as well as some of the best SSs in the league, he just doesn't have the big playmaking ability in terms of INTs. He will lay the hit though, just like Roy. It is no question that Roy is a big weakness in coverage and Mikell is very good in coverage. Overall, Mikell makes up for his loss in the running game with his play in the passing game.

Advantage: Mikell

That 4 out of the five major contributors being better than yours, and one of them is a draw.

CC.SD
09-12-2008, 05:35 PM
Come on DMW, read what you're saying in this thread: 'There is no possible argument', 'Greatest secondary in a decade'...these are clear symptoms of high grade homerism, and I would recognize them. Take it down a notch and let your team do the talking.

Go_Eagles77
09-12-2008, 05:54 PM
Seriously, you make me out to be such a big homer and say crap like
You can't see the forest for your homerism hereits just absolute disgust at your indefensible opinionsyou should immediately have your NFLDC card revoked. Its simply pathetic.Then proceed to say one of the most homerish statements I've ever seen on these boards. Whether you admit it or not you're just an arrogant d-bag that treats his own opinion as fact and you think all other fans, especially those of a divison rival, all are clueless idiots.

DMWSackMachine
09-12-2008, 06:03 PM
Come on DMW, read what you're saying in this thread: 'There is no possible argument', 'Greatest secondary in a decade'...these are clear symptoms of high grade homerism, and I would recognize them. Take it down a notch and let your team do the talking.

Actually, I said that I wasn't going to accept any arguments, but yeah, noted. Actually, it was only a form of rhetoric, they have a very good secondary as it stands now, and there certainly could be an argument made. My point was, though, that I think Dallas clearly is better. That is defensible in a lot of ways, but I agree that I've used very strong language here. Mostly, I just strongly believe that this is the beginning of something very special in Dallas this year, and I want stick my neck out there to back it up. The great thing is that, to quote Parcells, "the game tells you what you are." By the end of the season, we'll see who was right and who was the homer here.

As for

Then proceed to say one of the most homerish statements I've ever seen on these boards. Whether you admit it or not you're just an arrogant d-bag that treats his own opinion as fact and you think all other fans, especially those of a divison rival, all are clueless idiots.

I am more than willing to acknowledge a person's opinions who make any sense. I just don't have much patience for the kind of idiocy you were spewing. Most people just move on and ignore it. But I would love for you to take your little argument on the quality of your WRs to the board and ask them what they think of it. Then you'll find out that what I'm telling you is par for the course.

Dam8610
09-12-2008, 06:38 PM
Plus, there is no debating Sheldon hits harder (and smart) than any other CB, let alone Henry.

I just have to ask, have you ever seen Marlin Jackson or Kelvin Hayden play? Since we're being homers here...

giantsfan
09-12-2008, 06:53 PM
Eagles WR are not on par with the cowboys, they're solid, but not even top 20 in the league.

As for the DBs Newman is clearly the best corner amongst the teams in man coverage, but asante's the best zone corner on either team. Pacman has the ability to be better than Lito but has to prove it first, however Sheldon is significantly better than Henry even if he isn't the playmaker henry is. Dawk is better than Hamlin even though he was banged up and Mikkell isn't as terrible as roy. So I've got philly by a smidge but it's too close to call. As for the Dlines Philly's much better on the inside and Cole does his job as well as Canty does his, a littlebetter actually but it's close. Spears is just solid and same can be said for abiamiri at this point.

Go_Eagles77
09-12-2008, 07:03 PM
I am more than willing to acknowledge a person's opinions who make any sense. I just don't have much patience for the kind of idiocy you were spewing. Most people just move on and ignore it. But I would love for you to take your little argument on the quality of your WRs to the board and ask them what they think of it. Then you'll find out that what I'm telling you is par for the course.

I love how you continue to tell me to ask other people's opinions, when you have more people telling you that you are being a homer than me. Why don't you make a thread saying you believe the cowboys have the best DBs in the last decade and see how that turns out? I have said multiple times the cowboys WRs are better, but you are giving the eagles WRs too little credit. That's my main issue here. If they are all completely healthy, they definitely COULD be in the top 20 of the league, that's all I said but for some reason you are making it out like I said the eagles have the best WRs in the league.

MetSox17
09-12-2008, 08:15 PM
Uhhh, you had to go there. We'll break this down, one by one for you.

Asante vs. Newman. These are two very good CBs, both are in the top ten in the leagues at their position. Asante is more of a playmaker historically, and has already shown that as an Eagle. He fits in the system and there are no worries about the transition. He was heard from three times last week that is it, and you know what those three times were? Pass deflections. Newman is a great cover corner, no doubt, and he sticks do his man like glue.
Advantage: Asante

Sheldon vs. Henry. Both more of the physical style CB and both are above average CBs in the NFL. They are eqaul in coverage. Sheldon is a monster in run support, but Henry isn't in on nearly as many run plays. I don't know if it is because of Roy coming in and taking plays away from him but for whatever reason, Henry doesn't have the balance to his game that Sheldon does. Plus, there is no debating Sheldon hits harder (and smart) than any other CB, let alone Henry.

Advantage: Sheldon

Lito vs. Jones. Both are very talented CBs and both are dnagerous with the ball inthere hands. Yeah Lito's been injured, but he has played more than Pacman in the last year, so both of those are negated, if you want to look at it that way. When Lito is healthy and Pacman is back into his normal rythym, both are very good CBs, and I agree Jones had a great season his last year in Tenessee. But Lito is one of the gamebreaking CBs when he is healthy. Lito is healthy and he is back. Jones is back and he is behaving, but right now, Lito is still the better overall CB.

Advantage: Lito

I'm not going to even get into the 4th and 5th CBs for many reasons. For one they have little impact in the game besides special teams, and two they aren't on the field much at all. But you saying that any of your palyers are great just not given the chance is like saying Tyson Thompson would have gone to the Pro-Bowl given the chance.

Dawkins vs Hamlin. Dawkins, despite losign a step or two, is still an elite safety in this league. Hamlin is also a very good all around safety, but he is a natural SS, that is where he played in Seattle, and that is where he would play for Dallas if it weren't for Roy Williams. He has the speed and athletecism though to make up for his experience as a FS. Yes Dawk has lost a step, but there is no doubting that he was a whole flight of steps ahead of Hamlin at this time last year. Dawk went down some, and Hamlin went up some. But Dawk still covers nearly as good as he did two years ago, hits just as hard, and supports the run very well. Hamlin is good in coverage and supports the run well, but he doesn't hit like Dawk.

Advantage: Neither, it is even.

Mikell vs. Williams. Mikell has come on strong in the last few years, and has shown that he can be a great SS. Roy Williams (one of my favorite players in the NFL, believe it or not) has sort of faded away in the last few years. Always a monster in run support, Williams has the advantage there easily, but that doesn't mean Mikell is poor in those situations. He would come in for running situations last year, and has shown that he is very good against the run, albeit not to the calibut of Roy Williams. But Mikell is much better in coverage than Roy, and there is no debating that. Mikell sticks to his man as well as some of the best SSs in the league, he just doesn't have the big playmaking ability in terms of INTs. He will lay the hit though, just like Roy. It is no question that Roy is a big weakness in coverage and Mikell is very good in coverage. Overall, Mikell makes up for his loss in the running game with his play in the passing game.

Advantage: Mikell

That 4 out of the five major contributors being better than yours, and one of them is a draw.

LOL, i love how you call someone out on their homerism, then proceed to make ridiculously homerish statements.

He improved on his playmaking ability last year but still historicall, nowhere near Asante.


You're kidding. I know you are. You just said that to get a rise out of Cowboys fans. Newman is the best cover corner in the game. The fact that Samuel is riskier in coverage to make picks, makes him "historically" better than Asante? LOL.

There is only one draw in the matchup of DB's here, and that's in Henry and Brown. They're both good, to very good, with both being very good in run support. The fact that we have Roy Williams still taking a lot of tackles from other guys is what makes a difference in your assessment, cause i'm sure all you did was look at tackle stats and just figured Brown was better, cause he had a few zomgz hits on RB's. :rolleyes:

Plus, there is no debating Sheldon hits harder (and smart) than any other CB, let alone Henry.

Really? How did you come to that conclusion? I'm sure it had nothing to do with the TWO tackles he had on runningbacks that weren't even looking his way yet after leaving their feet to catch a pass. :rolleyes:

Hamlin is good in coverage and supports the run well, but he doesn't hit like Dawk.

I'd love for you to stop talking about guys you don't watch play. Please. He doesn't hit like Dawk? Did you even watch Cowboys games last year? He was arguably the best DB we had, and that's saying something with Newman in our backfield as well.


Yes Dawk has lost a step, but there is no doubting that he was a whole flight of steps ahead of Hamlin at this time last year.

At this time last year? Was that when he missed 5 games plus a bye week? I find it hard to believe he was better than him last year when he was sitting in his couch at home licking his wounds. And he had a whole 9 tackles in the three games he did actually play prior to week 10. Yeah, he was "a whole flight of steps ahead of him" LOL.

Roy Williams, who cares about him. He doesn't even play in pass situations, so it's hard to knock that against him. By default Mikell is better in coverage, because Williams doesn't DO coverage.

Go_Eagles77
09-12-2008, 08:24 PM
Really? How did you come to that conclusion? I'm sure it had nothing to do with the TWO tackles he had on runningbacks that weren't even looking his way yet after leaving their feet to catch a pass. :rolleyes:


You don't watch many eagles games do you? Seriously you people act like you are just as knowledgeable about our team as us.

scottyboy
09-12-2008, 08:53 PM
The Cowboys have a top 3-4 WR corps? that's news to me...

Prince 561
09-12-2008, 08:55 PM
The Cowboys have a top 3-4 WR corps? that's news to me...

They also have the best secondary in the past decade. Unfortunately neither was good enough to win a playoff game last season. :rolleyes:

MetSox17
09-12-2008, 09:36 PM
You don't watch many eagles games do you? Seriously you people act like you are just as knowledgeable about our team as us.

Well what a coincidence, i could say the same thing about you all.

Go_Eagles77
09-12-2008, 10:02 PM
Well what a coincidence, i could say the same thing about you all.

It's not the same thing, you say the only 2 great hits Sheldon has made in his career were the ones on Bush and Jackson, but you probably haven't seen 95% of the games he's played in. When in reality they are the only 2 you know of because they both made the highlights. Technically yes you can say the same thing about everyone who talks down about a player on another team, but I just found what you said odd because you said it like you know those are the only 2 hits he's ever made.

bigbluedefense
09-13-2008, 11:15 AM
The Eagles have the better secondary. While Newman is better than Samuel, Samuel is still a stud. Ill take Lito and Brown over Jones/Henry/or Jenkins any day. Jones is still rusty, Jenkins is just a rookie, and Henry is over the hill. Theres no way any combination of that trio is better than Brown and Lito.

Hamlin is solid, but I feel he's overrated, and Roy is terrible. Dawkins is on par with Hamlin since he lost a step, and Mikel is much better than Roy. Eagles are better in the secondary.

Dline is a draw to me. Dallas fans overrate Canty and Spears, and underrate Trevor Laws, Bunkley, and Patterson. Eagles fans overrate Cole, but underrate Ratliff.

Ware is Ware, and Ellis is still solid. Spencer is a stud in the making imo. But right here right now, its a draw. I don't like the front 3 of Dallas. I think its overrated outside of Ratliff.

Eagles have the best LB core in the East imo. The Cowboys have very pedestrian ILBs. Thomas provides experience and savy, and Im a huge fan, but like his counterpart James, is liable in coverage. Rushbackers are what they are, its hard to compare them to 4-3 OLBs, as far as run stuffing goes both teams are great on the outside, Philly has better coverage, and Dallas has better pass rushers. Its very difficult to compare bc of the scheme differences, but I like the overall balance of Philly's LB core better than Dallas.

To sum up the rest of my opinions, basically I feel that Philly has the better defense, Dallas has the better offense. Philly is gonna have a beastly defense, whereas, Im not as big of a believer in Dallas's defense as many others are. I still feel they can be had through the air. But Dallas makes their money on offense. They have an incredible offense. The best oline in the league this year possibly (unless the Pats play like they did last year).

Im really looking forward to this game. Its gonna be a brawl. I like the Eagles in a close game.

Modano
09-13-2008, 01:27 PM
Well BBD, I don't think Canty is overrated at all but he's probably underrated. He played well as a rookie, had a sophomore slump, but last year he was amazing. He can push the pocket and stop the run with his big arms and frame, and he can also put some pressure on the QB. He didn't have a lot of sacks last year but he was huge in applying pressure. Most of the times he looked like a man among boys.

Gribble
09-13-2008, 02:10 PM
They also have the best secondary in the past decade. Unfortunately neither was good enough to win a playoff game last season. :rolleyes:

And last year's secondary has so much to do with this years... Jones, Jenkins, and Scandrick >>>>>>>>> Reeves, Nate Jones, Oglesby.

And people still act like the Cowboys lost to a bunch of scrubs. The Giants won the Super Bowl by beating an undefeated Pats team.

And T.O. was hurt for the playoff game as well with Glenn playing his first game of the season.

Menardo75
09-13-2008, 04:42 PM
Oh man gotta love these great NFC east debates.

LonghornsLegend
09-13-2008, 05:49 PM
This thread is going to be interesting after Monday night, gotta love it:D No need to even get involved in arguments that go in circles, everybody sees their team to the max potential.


I will chime in on the D-line argument, its too hard to really compare because the defenses are different, but I highly doubt many people outside of the ones who pay close attention to the Cowboys realize how underrated Jay Ratliff is and how important he is to the defense...For a guy to be undersized as a NT in the 3-4, in the last 2 years he's had 7 sacks, 9 tackles for loss, 5 pass breakups, not to mention how much he drops back into coverage with the versatility of a LB and can line up at DE and rush the passer...He's the unsung hero, so anytime a DL conversation comes up I feel the need to mention his name.


I haven't seen nearly enough of Bunkley to act like I can choose between the two, but as far as DB's I give that nod to Philly, although I like our "potential" better...We have guys like Adam Jones(who needs to shake off the rust), Mike Jenkins(who is unproven but could turn into a lockdown type corner as most thought he had that skillset), and Orlando Scandrick(who quietly has outplayed Jenkins and balled like he has been the 1st rd pick, don't be surprised if he ends up our best corner from that draft).


Right now those guys are unproven and all hype so Philly gets the nod there, but at the end of the season it could easily be Dallas once we see some of these rookies play more.

Go_Eagles77
09-13-2008, 07:19 PM
Haha yeah, someone's gonna want to serve up a big batch of crow on Monday night.

bearsfan_51
09-13-2008, 07:45 PM
And last year's secondary has so much to do with this years... Jones, Jenkins, and Scandrick >>>>>>>>> Reeves, Nate Jones, Oglesby.

And people still act like the Cowboys lost to a bunch of scrubs. The Giants won the Super Bowl by beating an undefeated Pats team.

And T.O. was hurt for the playoff game as well with Glenn playing his first game of the season.
Excuses like these and more can be found in the "How to stay arrogant without having won an important game in over a decade-2008 Dallas Cowboys edition"

LonghornsLegend
09-13-2008, 07:54 PM
Excuses like these and more can be found in the "How to stay arrogant without having won an important game in over a decade-2008 Dallas Cowboys edition"

Thats so original, do you have any other compelling arguments against the Cowboys or is this the only you have in your back pocket to pull out whenever the Cowboys are brought into the discussion?


And please tell me what all those years where Romo wasn't the starting QB has to do with how this year will turn out? He's had 2 playoff games, one where he became the starter mid-season...He deserves some flack if he doesn't win one this year, but bringing up how we didn't make the playoffs when we had the likes of Drew Bledsoe, Chad Hutchinson, Drew Henson, and Quincy Carter does nothing for your argument for 2008.


Yes we sucked those years, yes its been that long since a playoff game has been won, but it has nothing to do with the outcome of this season so whats your obsession with bringing it up?

bearsfan_51
09-13-2008, 07:57 PM
Thats so original, do you have any other compelling arguments against the Cowboys or is this the only you have in your back pocket to pull out whenever the Cowboys are brought into the discussion?


And please tell me what all those years where Romo wasn't the starting QB has to do with how this year will turn out? He's had 2 playoff games, one where he became the starter mid-season...He deserves some flack if he doesn't win one this year, but bringing up how we didn't make the playoffs when we had the likes of Drew Bledsoe, Chad Hutchinson, Drew Henson, and Quincy Carter does nothing for your argument for 2008.


Yes we sucked those years, yes its been that long since a playoff game has been won, but it has nothing to do with the outcome of this season so whats your obsession with bringing it up?
Yes, by bringing it up once shows a clear obsession. Little sensitive are we?

But, if you'd like to go there, who said anything about 2008? This is a discussion about, at least originally, what is perceived as a slight against how the Cowboys should be ranked. Which, by the way, is an absolutely ridiculous argument overall considering how much everyone is slurping the Cowboys despite not having really any track record to base that on.

How Cowboys fans can still say their team is underrated blows my mind. You are the Notre Dame of the NFL. Usually to be considered an elite team you have to have some sort of track record to go off of, not how high your team is ranked on Madden or how many stats you can put up in the regular season.

LonghornsLegend
09-13-2008, 08:06 PM
Yes, by bringing it up once shows a clear obsession. Little sensitive are we?

But, if you'd like to go there, who said anything about 2008? This is a discussion about, at least originally, what is perceived as a slight against how the Cowboys should be ranked. Which, by the way, is an absolutely ridiculous argument overall considering how much everyone is slurping the Cowboys despite not having really any track record to base that on.

How Cowboys fans can still say their team is underrated blows my mind. You are the Notre Dame of the NFL. Usually to be considered an elite team you have to have some sort of track record to go off of, not how high your team is ranked on Madden or how many stats you can put up in the regular season.


Well I'm not going to dispute what discussion you had on going with other Cowboys fans, but this is hardly the first time you've said anything about it being 10 years since the Cowboys haven't made the playoffs, I've read that multiple times from you in threads that are about the Cowboys so I was wondering what the relevance was.


And you say it is relevant on how we should be ranked, so again, we shouldn't be ranked as high because we didn't win a playoff game with Quincy Carter? Oh ok that makes more sense:rolleyes: Me personally I don't feel we are underrated, if you want to lump Cowboy fans into one huge group of homers which is what you feel then fine by me, I have more sense to know to do that with any fan base.


Now as far as this "to be an elite team you have to have a good track record", so let me guess, this "track record" that you speak of just so happens to start after our last super bowl correct? So anything before that is irrelevant for some reason, why does it make sense for you to bring up those years where we had no franchise QB yet if somebody says something about a super bowl were "living in the past"...You can't just say we have no track record and then start counting years where it makes your argument fit.

bearsfan_51
09-13-2008, 08:14 PM
Well I'm not going to dispute what discussion you had on going with other Cowboys fans, but this is hardly the first time you've said anything about it being 10 years since the Cowboys haven't made the playoffs, I've read that multiple times from you in threads that are about the Cowboys so I was wondering what the relevance was.


And you say it is relevant on how we should be ranked, so again, we shouldn't be ranked as high because we didn't win a playoff game with Quincy Carter? Oh ok that makes more sense:rolleyes: Me personally I don't feel we are underrated, if you want to lump Cowboy fans into one huge group of homers which is what you feel then fine by me, I have more sense to know to do that with any fan base.


Now as far as this "to be an elite team you have to have a good track record", so let me guess, this "track record" that you speak of just so happens to start after our last super bowl correct? So anything before that is irrelevant for some reason, why does it make sense for you to bring up those years where we had no franchise QB yet if somebody says something about a super bowl were "living in the past"...You can't just say we have no track record and then start counting years where it makes your argument fit.
You're making this far more complicated than it really is. If you read comments made by DMW and others, you'd think the Cowboys have dominated the league for the last 4-5 years, instead of being completely irrelevant by the 1st or 2nd week of the playoffs at the latest. If you don't think this has some serious relevance you have your head buried completely in the sand.

There is without a doubt a higher degree of self-perception among Cowboys fans than any other fan base in the NFL. To make the Notre Dame comparison, this is applicable whether the team is good or not. Not in the same manner of course. But even when the Cowboys sucked, such and such was still the best player in the league (how long did it take before they realized Roy Williams was trash for example?) but now that they are ranked high by the national media it's to the point of being completely insufferable. A certain degree of homerism is quite fine and understandable, but when it gets to the point that Cowboys fans are blathering incessantly about how everyone is a homer, despite having really nothing to substantiate their own arguments in terms of what the team has actually done (which is a lot more important than what you think they will do), it gets really old.

In other words, it's usually a good idea to win something and then brag about it.

LonghornsLegend
09-13-2008, 08:24 PM
Like I was saying I don't have any problem with you calling out what another Cowboy poster said as being blatant homerism or whatever, you can go on and on about how arrogant our fans are or how the media is obsessed with the Cowboys because that really doesn't mean much to me...You still danced around my question of why our "track record" ironically starts the year after out super bowl, and why our ranking right now should have anything to do with what our team looked like 8 years ago.


It sounds like you have more of a personal grudge against the Cowboys, on paper you can make an argument for the Cowboys being the #1 team right now so whats the big deal? So what, were #1 in some power rankings that mean absolutely nothing as far as how the season will end...They don't make power rankings with 7 years ago in mind, and personally I could care less about those things, but its not some media conspiracy as your making it out to be...Pats lost Brady, Chargers lots Merriman and have key injuries elsewhere, Colts lost and Manning is still recovering, so on paper who should be the #1 team? It's not like you have to be a massive homer to pick Dallas, again it means nothing anyway so I hardly care about those things.


Like I've said all along I haven't defended any other Cowboys fans, and I wasn't disputing that, but your posts seem to have a genuine hate for the Cowboys in general when I'm looking at the matter from a subjective POV.

Gribble
09-14-2008, 10:34 AM
Excuses like these and more can be found in the "How to stay arrogant without having won an important game in over a decade-2008 Dallas Cowboys edition"

Since when am I making excuses? All I'm saying is that his argument which took the secondary into account has no justification because the personnel is completely overhauled from whatever was going on back there last season. The new players are definite upgrades... What's wrong with acknowledging that?

bearsfan_51
09-14-2008, 11:00 AM
Since when am I making excuses? All I'm saying is that his argument which took the secondary into account has no justification because the personnel is completely overhauled from whatever was going on back there last season. The new players are definite upgrades... What's wrong with acknowledging that?

That's actually true, I should have quoted someone else. Fair enough.

Prince 561
09-14-2008, 04:27 PM
Since when am I making excuses? All I'm saying is that his argument which took the secondary into account has no justification because the personnel is completely overhauled from whatever was going on back there last season. The new players are definite upgrades... What's wrong with acknowledging that?

Upgraded enough to be the "best secondary in the past decade"?

DMWSackMachine
09-15-2008, 01:13 AM
1st, I said it "has a decent chance" to be the best secondary of the decade (meaning this decade we are in, not the previous 10 years), which of course is an acknowledgement of the fact that earning that status is a matter of showing on the field and not ranking based upon a subjective measurement of ones favorite team. A strong statement, to be sure, but not the "OMG<we'r teh BEST EVerr!!11" that you're making it out to be. I'm fully aware that they may disappoint and end up much worse that that. Of course, I also understand that if they do so, I will be hearing about it, and I'm fine with that. We'll see.

As for BF51....why so serious? Are you suggesting that only playoff games are games which have any meaning? What about the game on Sunday Night last year vs. your Bears? A game against the defending NFC Champs at their house which broke the will of a team that was--at the time--considered the favorite in the conference race? Not meaningful?

How about the game against the Eagles in the Linc, when they were boasting that "this division still comes through us", even though they were obviously an inferior team, with inferior players and an inferior record? Was that demolition meaningless?

What about the game against the Giants, when they were in the midst of a 6 game winning streak, and were starting to generate all the "this game could be for the supremacy in the NFC" talk? Wasn't going in and handling our business against them a big game?

Or the game against the Packers, when both teams were 11-1, and the winner was virtually assured of home field advantage throughout the playoffs with a win? Is that not a big game?


Hmm, me thinks you are guilty of a little over-simplification here. Dallas has taken care of business in a lot of big games. The thing is, taking care of your business only makes allows you to get to that next game, which is even bigger. Had Dallas won a playoff game, and then lost in the NFC Championship, we would be fielding the same questions, only now the "big game" in question would be the conference championship and Romo and Co. wouldn't have what it takes to get their team over the hump and into the Super Bowl. Had we done that, it would then be the Super Bowl that would be the elusive "big game" and our QB and franchise would be unable to get the big win on the grandest stage, thus earning the tag of the biggest chokers.

It doesn't stop until you win it all. But, frankly, if Eli Manning plays the rest of his career without winning even ONE more playoff game, that will put him as O-fer in every single playoff game he has ever played in (since each of the first two playoff games he played in were complete debacles and he was horrible in both) EXCEPT for one magical run. Will people complain that he can't win the big one? No, because he did it once, so that suddenly means he is certified no matter what, right?

Brett Favre choked in LOADS of big games. He choked away a Super Bowl. He lost for years to Dallas in the playoffs, in ugly fashion. He sealed his career with an Int in OT that literally ended his team's season. Yet, is he all these things you say? No, because he won it once.


See how this makes no sense?

My point here is that all these labels and all this talk is ultimately meaningless. I can say what I want, you can say what you want, but the game tells you who you are. I just like to put myself on the line when I feel strongly about something BEFORE it becomes obvious to everyone else. Sometimes I look like a douche, and I'm down with that. If the time comes to do so, I can take my medicine. But if what I've been predicting comes to pass, then......then the bragging rights become even more sweet, because everything tastes a little better with some vindication on top, right?

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 07:09 AM
Sorry I wasn't here to defned myself this weekend. Have crap I needed to do and wanted to play/watch some football. I think this will make up for my absence.

McNabb vs Dallas' coverage.

Advantage: McNabb. One of the top QBs in the NFL against a secondary that is succeptible to the pass. Its best player in Terence Newman is hurt and Travis henry usually underperforms in Eagles games. Pacman is a threat when he is on the field, but with Newman playing, his role will be decreased from last week, though we will se plenty of him. Hamlin is not in his natural position because of Roy Williams' dificulties with coverage, and as a result, both of those are positions Donovan and the Eagles receivers will be able to exploit. Dallas has a few LBs who are solid in coverage, but when you consider who they will be lined up against, (Westbrook, Booker, Jackson, on occasion) there are mismatches that will be capable of being exploited.

Eagles run game vs Dallas' front 7.

Advantage: Eagles. With one of the best RBs in the league and an O-line that is dominant against a solid front seven, this is a close matchup, but Philly has s slight edge. Dallas' LBs (most notably Zach Thomas) are not as good as they once were, though with the rest of their guys, such as Ware, this is still a solid group. Ware is known mostly for his pass rush, but like Thomas, is sokid against the run as well. Spears is a solid DE against the run, and Greg Ellis is a good OLB for the Cowboys, but what it comes down to are the matchups inside the matchups. Chris Canty will be lined up on Tra Thomas in most alignments, and this is a pretty even matchup. Jay Ratlif will be lined up on Jamaal Jackson, and will occasionally get help from either Herremans or Andrews. Jackson has the slight advantage in that head to head. And Spears will be up against Runyan. That is a good matchup as well, but favors Runyan, just a little bit. Dpending on how Jackson can handle Ratliff, we will se Andrews going out to the second level when he won't have someone lined up in front of him, though if Ratliff will be lined up on him or Herremans, Jackson will have the responsibiltiy of going out and blocking the LBs. Don't expect a huge day running the ball, but the Eagles have a slight advantage here.

Eagles pass protection vs Dallas' pass rush.

Advantage: Draw. Also a very close matchup, as Ware is a great pass rusher and Ellis is also capable of reachign the QB. The 3-4 algnment makes it more difficult to diagnose where pressure may be comign from, and may result in some miscommunication or misdiagnosis. Depending on the play, Thomas will have to slide out and pick up Ware on the blitz, while Herremans will take on Canty. Ware against thomas is a matchup that favors Dallas. I some cases, Herremans may be picking up an iside blizer or helping Jackson. Same goes for Andrews, he will help Jackson or Runyan or help pick up blitzers. Will also slide out onto Spears if Runyan has responsibilites for an outside blitzer. To be honest, I should probably put this as a draw. To those that read the topic before I edited it, my apologies, but the more I look at it the more even it seems.

Eagles receivers vs Dallas' coverage.

Advantage: Dallas. On paper, it isn't even close. They have thre Pro-Bowlers in that secondary and a great trio of CB. But as we all know, the game isn't played on paper. Roy hasn't deserved a Pro-Bowl for years, and Hamlin is playing out of his comfort zone (albeit not by very much) in FS, Hamlin should be a SS. Newman is a top 10 Cb in the NFL and Henry is a solid 2nd CB. Pacman is a young, talented CB who is better than many of us give him credit for. But once he gets the ball in his hands, he is dangerous, he brigns the return potential that neither Newman or Henry posess. But when you consider how they match up agianst the Eagles and the style we play, it makes the matchup closer than how it looks on paper. DeSean is young and talented and the only omember of Dallas' secondary who has a chance of keeping with him is Pacman. But Dallas, like the Eagles, plays a ton of zone coverage, especailly when Williams is in, mostly to mask his lack of coverage abilties. We have a bunch of WRs who are good at finding holes in zones. With the speded of Jackson, and with what the rest of our other WRs bring to the table agianst the Cowboys, our WRs will have the opportunity to take advantage of the Cowboys defenders' weaknesses.

Tony Romo vs Eagles' coverage

Advantage: Draw. As much as most Eagle fans hate to admit it, Tony Romo is a very good NFL QB. Fortunately for us, we have a great coverage unit to combat it. He also has the capability to run when he feels he needs to, and I have a feeling he may be doing more running than he wants to this week. For the most part, Romo is a headsy QB, and takes what he deems as appropriate risks. Sometimes they come back to bite him, and sometimes they result in a great play for Dallas. I have a feeling we will see examples of both of those situations in this game. Our LBs are good in coverage and will be able to hold back (or at least diminish a bit) the receiving impact Barber could have. Lito will have TO and though Lito took advantage of Owens last year, this is a balnced matchup. Lito won't have tTO 100% of the time either though, so you have to keep that in kind. Asante and Sheldon will probably be spending a lot of time over Crayton and Witten.

Dallas run game vs Eagles' front 7

Advantage: Draw. This is a top 6 run defense from last year that is only getting betterm but dallas has a great RB in Barber and both Jones and Choice look to be good options. Dallas has one of the best (and biggest) O-lines in the league, which really helps their running efforts. But they are without their starting LG. Bunkley is very strong at the point of attack, and is able to hog up blockers like it is nobodies business. Cole is a balnced RDE despite hsi sack numbers, and that really shows how good of an overall player he really is. Patterson had over 100 tackles last year (along with Cole) and for a DT that is very impressive. Parker is a balnced DE and though he may not have a huge game, if he can do what he is supposed to, that will help the defense immesely. Plus we have Gocong and Bradley and Gaither wh are very solid against the run. Barber and the other RBs for Dallas may not have the type of success they are used to. Don't expect Dallas to get less than 40 yards rushing like we did to the Rams though.

Dallas' pass protection vs Eagles' pass rush

Advantage: Eagles.Though Dallas has a huge O-line that is regarded as one of the best, it can be exploited, and we have done it. (last year) Flozell Adams is at a disadvantage with Trent Cole, though both play very well against eachother. These two could have a game like Strahan and Runyan would have. One would beat the other, and then the next play, the other one would make a fool out of him. Andre Gurode is a good Center in the NFL, and Dallas is going to need him, especially with the injury to Kosier, he is going to need to help the LG Corey Proctor. Corey Proctor looks to fill the spot again this week and both Patterson and Bunkley will be able to take advantage of him in the pass and run games. Leonard Davis is is hefty guy at RG, but he doesn't have the quickness or lateral movement like Shawn Andrews. He is a leak in the dam for Dallas pass protection. Columbo and Parker will see a lot fo eachother, and this could be a good even matchup. I think what puts the Eagles over top (just barely) is the scheming by Johnson. I know Dallas has a coach trying to counteract the schemes JJ will brign out, but he just has too many weapons to use in our LBs and guys like Dawk, Q, and Brown. Adn what makes it easier is our LBs are great in coverage, so it will be difficult for Dallas to know where the pressure is coming from. We may even see some uncommon alignments in our defense.

Dallas' receivers vs Eagles' coverage

Advantage: Eagles. Though the Cowboys have two very big threats in TO and Witten, and another threat in Barber, what else do they really have? I'll tell you...Patrick Crayton, Sam Hurd and Isaiah Stanbeck are their only other WRs. Miles Austin is out with an injury. Martellus Bennett, a rookie, is their only other threat at TE. Even so, he is a few years away from fulfilling potential and really making an impact. Felix Jones is a threat as well, and Choice to an extent, but if you look at it, TO, Witten, and Barber are their only threats. (Crayton is a solid option) Now look at our secondary... Asante, Lito, Sheldon, and Dawk are all very good. Q is good and in some situations, Considine is out on the field and has been impressive so far. Bradley is great in coverage and so is Gaither. Reed is a solid contributor. We have four great players (to Dallas' 3 receiving threat) and 3 good options coverage guys (to Dallas' 1) But Dallas will have a solid day passing, they have just enough weapons and some options to work with that we will not shut them down either. Witten and TO (specifically Witten) will need to be at least slowed down, but Romo is a good enough Qb that he will find some of the other options. We match up man on man well, but will be in a lot of zone coverages. Witten is good at finding the holes in the zone, so the advantage that seems heavily in the Eagles favor really isn't as big as it seems.

I'm not going to go too in depth in coaching or special teams. We all know that Reid is more experienced, and more successful than Phillips. It will be fun to see the young "hot shot" offensive coordinator in Jason Garrett and our "wiley old veteran" in JJ battling along the sidelines. Both teams have returners who can make things happen, but Dallas has a slight edge in ST coverage.

Matchup synopsis.
PHI-4 (Donovan, PHI running game, pass rush, and pass coverage)
DAL-1 (pass coverage)
Draw (meanign too close to give clear advantage, could go either way)- 3 (Eagles pass rush vs Dallas' pass protection, Romo vs Eagles coverage, and Dallas Rushing attack vs Eagles' Front 7)

Now here is where we combine these things to get a better idea of how the game will pan out...Our defense is a threat to put pressure on Romo, while our secondary is able to cover well. Dallas may be running the ball more than we expect, especially considering Barber is a great RB, and both Jones and Choice are promising rookies, especially Jones. Now Dallas' defense and our offense are very close, and if you combine the two groups, our offense vs their defense is a very equal matchup. Expect a balanced attack (in AR standards) on offense. The game will come down to line play, penalties, special teams, and luck. This will be a very close NFC East matchup, and you, just liek I are expecting a big win.

Take that however you want. I am done arguing this game.

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 08:51 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Wow, i love when homers try and sound objective when analyzing a matchup. We'll see tonight how your "four advantages" work out for you.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 08:54 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Wow, i love when homers try and sound objective when analyzing a matchup. We'll see tonight how your "four advantages" work out for you.

Dude, I posted that on the Eagles team site, and Cowboy fans even told me it was a fair analysis. They said it was a little "convoluted" (to use their exact words). which it was, but they said they analysis was good.

bigbluedefense
09-15-2008, 09:05 AM
I can't wait for this game. Not only is it gonna be an incredible game, but its also answer a lot of debates in this thread.

Not necessarily answer, thats a poor word, but it will at the very least establish some groundwork to base future statements off of.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 09:15 AM
I can't wait for this game. Not only is it gonna be an incredible game, but its also answer a lot of debates in this thread.

Not necessarily answer, thats a poor word, but it will at the very least establish some groundwork to base future statements off of.

Agreed. I have a friend who is a Cowboy fan who says that this game is going to be so good, he almost doesn't care who wins.

bigbluedefense
09-15-2008, 09:18 AM
Agreed. I have a friend who is a Cowboy fan who says that this game is going to be so good, he almost doesn't care who wins.

as a Giants fan, im definitely interested to see this game as well. im sure Giant players and the coaching staff feel the same way. its a great game to get a lot of film study off of.

I think Dallas needs this win more than the Eagles do. I can't wait to see this game.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 09:20 AM
as a Giants fan, im definitely interested to see this game as well. im sure Giant players and the coaching staff feel the same way. its a great game to get a lot of film study off of.

I think Dallas needs this win more than the Eagles do. I can't wait to see this game.

Yeah they have been hyped up so much, and if they lose that may do a bit of moral damage to the team because of that hype.

bigbluedefense
09-15-2008, 09:26 AM
Yeah they have been hyped up so much, and if they lose that may do a bit of moral damage to the team because of that hype.

well losing this game would hurt Dallas for a couple of reasons.

1. Its their home game.
2. They play Green Bay next week, which makes that almost a must win game, you don't want to fall to 1-2 in this division.
3. If they lose, panic will start to rise in Dallas, and that adds unnecessary pressure and media drama to a team with a SB or bust train of thought right now.
4. Losing shows the rest of the country and Dallas themselves, that they are not as great as advertised, and that they are vulnerable. Right here right now Dallas has an arrogance to them that they are the team that the SB must be won through. Maybe theyre right, who knows, but as of right now its nothing but unfounded arrogance on their part. If they win, it only adds to their confidence, and perhaps establishes that they may be right in their arrogance.

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 09:32 AM
How exactly can you say that the Cowboys are arrogant? Do you have anything to base that comment off of? Seriously? Is anyone going around talking smack about this season??

bigbluedefense
09-15-2008, 09:38 AM
How exactly can you say that the Cowboys are arrogant? Do you have anything to base that comment off of? Seriously? Is anyone going around talking smack about this season??

How can you NOT say they are is the better question. And do we really need to pull up quotes? The Cowboys have been talking smack for a long time now. Don't think other NFC East teams forgot any of it. Like the Eagles team you guys are about to face tonight.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 10:16 AM
How exactly can you say that the Cowboys are arrogant? Do you have anything to base that comment off of? Seriously? Is anyone going around talking smack about this season??

Do you get HBO?

Sniper
09-15-2008, 10:54 AM
.

If you're going to compare DLs, though, you have to try to match players with similar responsibilities. Seeing as how Dallas really has two players who share the responsibilities of one DE and one LB between them, we should take the combined pass rushing prowess of Ware and Ellis and divide by 2 to get the final piece of the DL puzzle for Dallas. That tips the scales in favor of the Cowboys. I will acknowledge that this one is close, but seeing as how Dallas was VASTLY superior at getting pressure on the QB last year, I'll have to take them for now.

Ware can count as a DE or an LB. Take one.

So, all told, Dallas WRs posted over 200 more yards and a whopping ELEVEN TDs on less completions and FAR less attempts (I don't have the Scientific Football data here for attempts, but I am positive that Philly's WR got substantially more attempts thrown their way than Dallas' did). And all of this is without including Dallas TOP PASSING WEAPON (in terms of attempts), Jason Witten, who is--I assume--being excluded from this argument. Otherwise the debate would go from "patently ridiculous" to "farce" in the blink of an eye.

Which would be a great argument if I had said Philadelphia had a better WR core, which I didn't. All I said was that Baskett and Brown were superior to a guy who basically hasn't done anything and a guy who hadn't caught a pass until this year.


However, all of this also neglects the most important point. STATS ALONE AREN'T THE MEASURE OF QUALITY OR FUTURE PRODUCTION. That's why its not fair to try and compare two guys (Hurd and Austin) who got very little opportunity, with two guys who got tons of it (and I really like how you try to slip Brown's production as a co-#1--or at least #2--in as proof for him being the better player over a guy who was getting maybe 15 offensive plays a game; good form there) like Brown and Baskett did. Again, a team with Owens and Witten--two of the best to ever play their position--is going to get them the ball at the expense of other lesser players. Throw in Crayton--who was already gobbling up much of the leftovers--and there is next to nothing left for Hurd, let alone Austin.

But how can Austin be better than anyone if he has zero career numbers? I suppose we could say that I am a superior wideout to Reggie Brown, since coming into this year Austin and I both had identical receiving numbers.

Much of my opinions here are based upon simple observation. I have watched all players involved a ton. Brown looks like a solid option who will stick in the league, but those who hoped he would become a go-to guy for McNabb have to be disappointed. Baskett is barely in the league at this point. While Hurd is a good player who has a tireless work ethic and has improved consistently since coming into the league. Again, Austin is loaded with potential, and I think he has come far enough to where he will begin showing it this year.

Potential doesn't mean **** unless you're putting up production to back it up.

*Shrug* I don't really care to get into an argument about 3rd and 4th options here, though. My point was simply that its not a no-contest here. I won't be mortally offended at someone claiming the Eagles 3rd and 4th being better than ours, but I will laugh at anyone saying that its a large gap. Let alone it being enough to account for the MAAAAASSSSIIIIIVVVVVEEEEE difference between TO/Crayton and Curtis/Jackson.

Again, I didn't say Philly had a better WR corps

So now we measure a player by how he plays against one team? Orly? So if I was talking to a St. Louis fan I could contend that Patrick Crayton is one of the best WRs in the league, based upon his 7/180/2 performance last year? That's fresh.

No, we should measure how they do against every team. So Lito has been better on and off the field compared to Pacman against everyone. And you should be scared of Lito considering you're a Cowboys fan. The man has come through time and again for the Eagles against the Cowboys. Lito was healthy for one game last year, @ Dallas. How'd you guys do?

The bottom line is that Lito gets burned a ton. He's been good at times in his career, but he spends more time injured, complaining, or getting burned than he does playing good football. Last season he wasn't even playing like an NFL starter. So, yes, I would rather have a penitent and motivated Adam Jones--who has never had any injury issues and was borderline dominant in his last full season with Tennessee--than an overrated, injury-prone, and ego-inflated piece of toast. Call me funny.

Except there's that whole thing where before last 8year, he wasn't getting burned a ton. He didn't complain until this year. Last season, when he was nicked up all year, he didn't play like a starter? Oh the horrors! How did Jones do last year? Oh, whoops.

Lito is not overrated or ego-inflated. He's a damn good corner who deserves to get paid. Whether it will be Philly or not, I don't know.

As for Newman vs. Samuel...I think you guys are going to rue the day you gave him that contract. He gets beat enough to make him JAG unless he is making big plays back the other way. If those dry up, you can look forward to plenty of CUT ASANTE threads on your home board, trust me. This will just take time, so we'll wait. But even then, there is no arguing that Asante has been in Newman's league coverage-wise. The Ints are the only thing keeping it remotely close.

Trying to talk to you is like trying to talk to a brick wall.

After that, Dallas has a 4th and 5th CB that could each start for a dozen teams in the league, and would instantly become the best nickel CBs on all but 3 or 4 teams in the league. Of course you don't realize this, but its the truth all the same. It will come to your attention eventually.

Sweet Jesus your homerism is astounding. Orlando Scandrick plays one game and all of a sudden he's amazing.

No, Dawkins wasn't "hurt", he started to break down. There's a difference. And the year before he DID NOT play at a PB level. The simple proof of that is the fact that he didn't make it. With his name recognition and status in the league, he certainly would have made it had he played up to it. Not to mention he just didn't. I watched, and he didn't.

You're right, it's not like he missed TC with a bunch of issues and was nicked up all year. You know everything. The year before, Dawkins had 98 tackles, a sack, four picks, five forced fumbles and 13 PD. Right, not a Pro Bowler.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 11:01 AM
.



Ware can count as a DE or an LB. Take one.



Which would be a great argument if I had said Philadelphia had a better WR core, which I didn't. All I said was that Baskett and Brown were superior to a guy who basically hasn't done anything and a guy who hadn't caught a pass until this year.




But how can Austin be better than anyone if he has zero career numbers? I suppose we could say that I am a superior wideout to Reggie Brown, since coming into this year Austin and I both had identical receiving numbers.



Potential doesn't mean **** unless you're putting up production to back it up.



Again, I didn't say Philly had a better WR corps



No, we should measure how they do against every team. So Lito has been better on and off the field compared to Pacman against everyone. And you should be scared of Lito considering you're a Cowboys fan. The man has come through time and again for the Eagles against the Cowboys. Lito was healthy for one game last year, @ Dallas. How'd you guys do?



Except there's that whole thing where before last 8year, he wasn't getting burned a ton. He didn't complain until this year. Last season, when he was nicked up all year, he didn't play like a starter? Oh the horrors! How did Jones do last year? Oh, whoops.

Lito is not overrated or ego-inflated. He's a damn good corner who deserves to get paid. Whether it will be Philly or not, I don't know.



Trying to talk to you is like trying to talk to a brick wall.



Sweet Jesus your homerism is astounding. Orlando Scandrick plays one game and all of a sudden he's amazing.



You're right, it's not like he missed TC with a bunch of issues and was nicked up all year. You know everything. The year before, Dawkins had 98 tackles, a sack, four picks, five forced fumbles and 13 PD. Right, not a Pro Bowler.

Sniper, do you need a hug?

Sniper
09-15-2008, 11:11 AM
Sniper, do you need a hug?

No, I just hate Cowboys homerism. I also hate my girlfriend's computer dying on the weekend, Michigan fumbling seven times, losing four of them and throwing two picks, Morgan Trent, Notre Dame, the Cowboys, Tony Romo, Jessica Simpson, Al-Qaeda, broccoli, stupid people, not sleeping much and the Cowboys...again.

I do enjoy long walks on the beach though.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 11:14 AM
No, I just hate Cowboys homerism. I also hate my girlfriend's computer dying on the weekend, Michigan fumbling seven times, losing four of them and throwing two picks, Morgan Trent, Notre Dame, the Cowboys, Tony Romo, Jessica Simpson, Al-Qaeda, broccoli, stupid people, not sleeping much and the Cowboys...again.

I do enjoy long walks on the beach though.

How about getting caught in the rain? haha.

Sniper
09-15-2008, 11:15 AM
How about getting caught in the rain? haha.

Love getting caught in the rain.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 11:26 AM
Love getting caught in the rain.
I'm a Taurus;)

On a serious note, I want to be inside a hurricane, I really like extreme weather and things like that.

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 12:24 PM
I'm still waiting for an Eagles fan on the Homer bets thread.

Modano
09-15-2008, 12:52 PM
Take that however you want. I am done arguing this game.

I don't want to argue with your analysis (props to you for put it all together) but there are some mistakes:

1) I guess only Thomas can be credited as being not good as he used to be. Since Ware and James are in their prime and Ellis hasn't lost a step (he probably played his best season last year). You also forgot Kevin Burnett who is the guy who is our cover LB. Screw Bradie James he's not gonna play on passing downs. Burnett will.

2) Canty will not be lined up against Thomas. He's responsable of the gap between the LT and the LG.

3) Ellis is not "capable of reaching the QB". Ellis is a very very good pass rusher. He might be not that good defending the run but he's still a great pass rusher, and last season showed it. Considering he will be one on one most of the time (or do you prefer to leave Ware one on one?) Eagles should be concerned about him. Also you talk about the Cowboys LBs as they lost a step. What about John Runyan? Don't act like he's what he used to be.
Also, Spencer might play and, if it's the case, on passing downs Ellis will play as a DE with Spencer as a LB behind him. Facing Ellis and Spencer on the same side is a bad thing for an OL.

4) Even if you think that Hamlin is better-suited as SS he's a very good centerfield.

5) Nope, Pacman is not the only one who has a chance to keep with Jackson. Try Terence Newman who is still the fastest CB on our team.

6) Being without our LG is not a big deal. Kosier is just average, and he's not a very good run blocker. Procter is also average, but there's not a big difference between him and Kosier. So missing our starting LG is not a big deal. Missing Davis would be.

7) Cole and Patterson didn't have 100 tackles last year. Patterson had 66 and Cole 60+
Also you forgot to mention the fact that since Bigg Davis joined Dallas he has been able to move DL with ease. Also, Flozell Adams dominated Cole most of the game. Cole could beat him as a passrusher (even if Flo last year was able to keep in check even Umenyiora) but Flo has the big advantage in the running game. Maybe Cole will play better this year but you don't have any prove to present it as a fact. The fact is that Flozell Adams and the entire Dallas OL played very good last year against the same Eagles DL. The Cowboys OL faced some premier pass rushers last year and was able to shut most of them down. The only time they got beat was in the second half of the playoff games against the Giants.

8) Again, don't forget about Crayton. He might have a big mouth but he knows how to take advantage of single coverage.
Also, "our other threat at TE"? Sorry, could you please tell me who is your primary threat at TE? You don't have to worry about who are our other threats at TE, you have to worry about Jason Witten, who killed you last year.

Everyone has his opinion about this game, I respect yours. But you presented some opinions as facts.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 01:33 PM
I don't want to argue with your analysis (props to you for put it all together) but there are some mistakes:

1) I guess only Thomas can be credited as being not good as he used to be. Since Ware and James are in their prime and Ellis hasn't lost a step (he probably played his best season last year). You also forgot Kevin Burnett who is the guy who is our cover LB. Screw Bradie James he's not gonna play on passing downs. Burnett will.

2) Canty will not be lined up against Thomas. He's responsable of the gap between the LT and the LG.

3) Ellis is not "capable of reaching the QB". Ellis is a very very good pass rusher. He might be not that good defending the run but he's still a great pass rusher, and last season showed it. Considering he will be one on one most of the time (or do you prefer to leave Ware one on one?) Eagles should be concerned about him. Also you talk about the Cowboys LBs as they lost a step. What about John Runyan? Don't act like he's what he used to be.
Also, Spencer might play and, if it's the case, on passing downs Ellis will play as a DE with Spencer as a LB behind him. Facing Ellis and Spencer on the same side is a bad thing for an OL.

4) Even if you think that Hamlin is better-suited as SS he's a very good centerfield.

5) Nope, Pacman is not the only one who has a chance to keep with Jackson. Try Terence Newman who is still the fastest CB on our team.

6) Being without our LG is not a big deal. Kosier is just average, and he's not a very good run blocker. Procter is also average, but there's not a big difference between him and Kosier. So missing our starting LG is not a big deal. Missing Davis would be.

7) Cole and Patterson didn't have 100 tackles last year. Patterson had 66 and Cole 60+
Also you forgot to mention the fact that since Bigg Davis joined Dallas he has been able to move DL with ease. Also, Flozell Adams dominated Cole most of the game. Cole could beat him as a passrusher (even if Flo last year was able to keep in check even Umenyiora) but Flo has the big advantage in the running game. Maybe Cole will play better this year but you don't have any prove to present it as a fact. The fact is that Flozell Adams and the entire Dallas OL played very good last year against the same Eagles DL. The Cowboys OL faced some premier pass rushers last year and was able to shut most of them down. The only time they got beat was in the second half of the playoff games against the Giants.

8) Again, don't forget about Crayton. He might have a big mouth but he knows how to take advantage of single coverage.
Also, "our other threat at TE"? Sorry, could you please tell me who is your primary threat at TE? You don't have to worry about who are our other threats at TE, you have to worry about Jason Witten, who killed you last year.

Everyone has his opinion about this game, I respect yours. But you presented some opinions as facts.

First off, thanks for not overreacting and flipping our like a rabid animal.

1. Not to sound like an *** but with Westbrook and the rest of the collective speed on our offense, it doesn't matter who your coverage LBs are, they will not match up well man to man. That being said, the Cowboys do play a good majority of zone coverage, predominantly zone coverage actually. Perhaps Newman and Jones (once he gets back into the swing of thigns) will help make man coverage more prevalent, but because of the age (and as usually occompanies with it) and slowness of the LBs, and Roy in coverage, the Cowboys tend to use zone coverage a lot when they can't get their coverage team on the field. Now I know a lot of the Cowboy fans say that Roy comes out in passing situations, and they are right, but he will need to see significant PT or the Eagles will be having a very successful day of rushing. Plus Roy won't always be able to come out because we do tend to pass frequently (understatement of the Reid era) and they can't have him out too much, or like I said before, we will run on you guys with some success.

2. I could have used better verbage there. What I should have said is that Thomas will have Canty as his responsibility a good majority of the time. I'm not sure if I mentioned it or not, (I didn't, I only said most alignments) but Herremans will help out with him in certain situations. In most cases though, Thomas will have to handle Canty.

3. I said Ellis is capable of reaching the passer. I had him after Ware because Ware is better at it, as you know. I didn't say Ellis can't. But he just isn't as good as it as Ware. But Ware is one of the best at reaching the QB. I guess I could have made that more clear, but you could have read over it better, haha.

4. He is, and I never said he was bad. I will not say that Hamlin is bad at FS. As evidenced by a worthy Pro-Bowl nomination last year. But you and I both know he would be playing SS if it weren't for Roy. He did get beat a few times last year, (and I know all DBs do) but some of those were plays that he should have been able to handle. I have heard from a lot of people that if Roy Williams gets cut after the end of the season, Hamlins will take over, where the team feels they could get better production out of him and put Pat Watkins in at FS. I don't know how that would work out, as Watkins is also listed as a SS. I know though that he does sub in for Roy on passing situations, so they must feel safer with him in coverage than Roy.

5. This whole article in the original post is about this weeks matchup, and I did that write-up after I found out Newman is unlikely to play. It is looking like he may not play, and even if he does, he will not be 100%. DeSean is blazing fast though with his sub 4.3 speed, and plays fast as well. It will be hard for any CB to handle him by themself.

6. I actually just found out that Procter may not be playing because the Cowboys weren't happy with how he played last week, especially in the run game. And I heard that Pat McQuistan or Montrae Holland (I don't remember wh they said)may be starting instead of Procter.

7. For the most part the Cowboys' O-line did play well, and did dominate our d-line in the first game. But in the second game we had 4 sacks on Romo (It may have been more, I don't remember) and that caused him to hurry up a bit, which is really what was able to at least slow down your offense last year. You are right, we don't know for sure which one will show up.

8. Beleive me, I am not forgetting about Crayton. I know he has the potential to put up a 100+ yard performance at any time. But he is also very inconsistent, as stated before in this thread. I don't know for sure, but the Eagles did a good job of shutting him down last year in his #2 role both games. He had very little production to speak of. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he had very little impact on either game. If it seemed like I was dodging the Witten subject, my apologies, becuae I assumed everyone knew what he brought to the table. We all know he is a great TE (#1 in the NFL in my book) and is a constant threat. I was just bringing up another possible threat from the position in Martellus Bennett, who I think could end up being a very good NFL TE in time.

Sorry if it seemed as though I was trying to pass my opinions off as fact. I was trying to add what I could to the conversation. I really wasn't trying to make it seem that way. give me some examples and I'll either give you my explanation, or tell you it was my opinion. I really did try to do this as my opinion, but I wanted to back my opinion up with fact, and if you think any of those were scewed, let me know, and I will elaborate.

Modano
09-15-2008, 01:44 PM
Fair enough.. As I've said before you're entitled to your opinions so i'm not arguing with you abou them. I just wanted to clear some points..
Anyway, just a couple more things...

I don't think there's a LB who can cover one on one Westbrook, I was just statin that you don't have to consider the James-Thomas/Westbrook-Booker matchup. You have to consider a mix of zone and man with also Henry playing the Rover position and Burnett as the only LB in the nickel-dime.
Regarding Newman he said early this week that he's gonna play and I thought you were assuming that. Wade has been very Bellichick-esque with his injury reports since he joined Dallas so I think there's a good chance Newman plays tonight.
Regarding Procter, well, Holland was brought in to be Kosier replacement but he's getting comfortable with the playbook. As soon as he gest the playbook he will start and he could be an upgrade over Kosier who get push around waaay too much. This is why I think Kosier injury is not a big deal.
Last but not least, I think that last year loss against the Eagles was 60% Romo fault. He just played bad that game and he was sacked a lot because he was holding the ball too long not because poor-play by the OL.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 01:52 PM
Fair enough.. As I've said before you're entitled to your opinions so i'm not arguing with you abou them. I just wanted to clear some points..
Anyway, just a couple more things...

I don't think there's a LB who can cover one on one Westbrook, I was just statin that you don't have to consider the James-Thomas/Westbrook-Booker matchup. You have to consider a mix of zone and man with also Henry playing the Rover position and Burnett as the only LB in the nickel-dime.
Regarding Newman he said early this week that he's gonna play and I thought you were assuming that. Wade has been very Bellichick-esque with his injury reports since he joined Dallas so I think there's a good chance Newman plays tonight.
Regarding Procter, well, Holland was brought in to be Kosier replacement but he's getting comfortable with the playbook. As soon as he gest the playbook he will start and he could be an upgrade over Kosier who get push around waaay too much. This is why I think Kosier injury is not a big deal.
Last but not least, I think that last year loss against the Eagles was 60% Romo fault. He just played bad that game and he was sacked a lot because he was holding the ball too long not because poor-play by the OL.

Nice to havea civil disagreement with someone.

I was unaware of that formation, that will defintiely help the Cowboys in thier coverage with some of our personnel.

I had heard that Newman said he was going to play as well. That was on Monday, I think. May have been Tuesday. Either way, I saw a link to the Cowboys team site that said Newman probably won't play (that was later on in the week, Friday maybe). If he does though he will be tested early. AR likes to test secondaries early as it is, and if your best DB is injured, that will only encourage him to test it even more.

DMWSackMachine
09-15-2008, 02:14 PM
Sorry I wasn't here to defned myself this weekend. Have crap I needed to do and wanted to play/watch some football. I think this will make up for my absence.

McNabb vs Dallas' coverage.

Advantage: McNabb. One of the top QBs in the NFL against a secondary that is succeptible to the pass. Its best player in Terence Newman is hurt and Travis henry usually underperforms in Eagles games. Pacman is a threat when he is on the field, but with Newman playing, his role will be decreased from last week, though we will se plenty of him. Hamlin is not in his natural position because of Roy Williams' dificulties with coverage, and as a result, both of those are positions Donovan and the Eagles receivers will be able to exploit. Dallas has a few LBs who are solid in coverage, but when you consider who they will be lined up against, (Westbrook, Booker, Jackson, on occasion) there are mismatches that will be capable of being exploited.

Eagles run game vs Dallas' front 7.

Advantage: Eagles. With one of the best RBs in the league and an O-line that is dominant against a solid front seven, this is a close matchup, but Philly has s slight edge. Dallas' LBs (most notably Zach Thomas) are not as good as they once were, though with the rest of their guys, such as Ware, this is still a solid group. Ware is known mostly for his pass rush, but like Thomas, is sokid against the run as well. Spears is a solid DE against the run, and Greg Ellis is a good OLB for the Cowboys, but what it comes down to are the matchups inside the matchups. Chris Canty will be lined up on Tra Thomas in most alignments, and this is a pretty even matchup. Jay Ratlif will be lined up on Jamaal Jackson, and will occasionally get help from either Herremans or Andrews. Jackson has the slight advantage in that head to head. And Spears will be up against Runyan. That is a good matchup as well, but favors Runyan, just a little bit. Dpending on how Jackson can handle Ratliff, we will se Andrews going out to the second level when he won't have someone lined up in front of him, though if Ratliff will be lined up on him or Herremans, Jackson will have the responsibiltiy of going out and blocking the LBs. Don't expect a huge day running the ball, but the Eagles have a slight advantage here.

Eagles pass protection vs Dallas' pass rush.

Advantage: Draw. Also a very close matchup, as Ware is a great pass rusher and Ellis is also capable of reachign the QB. The 3-4 algnment makes it more difficult to diagnose where pressure may be comign from, and may result in some miscommunication or misdiagnosis. Depending on the play, Thomas will have to slide out and pick up Ware on the blitz, while Herremans will take on Canty. Ware against thomas is a matchup that favors Dallas. I some cases, Herremans may be picking up an iside blizer or helping Jackson. Same goes for Andrews, he will help Jackson or Runyan or help pick up blitzers. Will also slide out onto Spears if Runyan has responsibilites for an outside blitzer. To be honest, I should probably put this as a draw. To those that read the topic before I edited it, my apologies, but the more I look at it the more even it seems.

Eagles receivers vs Dallas' coverage.

Advantage: Dallas. On paper, it isn't even close. They have thre Pro-Bowlers in that secondary and a great trio of CB. But as we all know, the game isn't played on paper. Roy hasn't deserved a Pro-Bowl for years, and Hamlin is playing out of his comfort zone (albeit not by very much) in FS, Hamlin should be a SS. Newman is a top 10 Cb in the NFL and Henry is a solid 2nd CB. Pacman is a young, talented CB who is better than many of us give him credit for. But once he gets the ball in his hands, he is dangerous, he brigns the return potential that neither Newman or Henry posess. But when you consider how they match up agianst the Eagles and the style we play, it makes the matchup closer than how it looks on paper. DeSean is young and talented and the only omember of Dallas' secondary who has a chance of keeping with him is Pacman. But Dallas, like the Eagles, plays a ton of zone coverage, especailly when Williams is in, mostly to mask his lack of coverage abilties. We have a bunch of WRs who are good at finding holes in zones. With the speded of Jackson, and with what the rest of our other WRs bring to the table agianst the Cowboys, our WRs will have the opportunity to take advantage of the Cowboys defenders' weaknesses.

Tony Romo vs Eagles' coverage

Advantage: Draw. As much as most Eagle fans hate to admit it, Tony Romo is a very good NFL QB. Fortunately for us, we have a great coverage unit to combat it. He also has the capability to run when he feels he needs to, and I have a feeling he may be doing more running than he wants to this week. For the most part, Romo is a headsy QB, and takes what he deems as appropriate risks. Sometimes they come back to bite him, and sometimes they result in a great play for Dallas. I have a feeling we will see examples of both of those situations in this game. Our LBs are good in coverage and will be able to hold back (or at least diminish a bit) the receiving impact Barber could have. Lito will have TO and though Lito took advantage of Owens last year, this is a balnced matchup. Lito won't have tTO 100% of the time either though, so you have to keep that in kind. Asante and Sheldon will probably be spending a lot of time over Crayton and Witten.

Dallas run game vs Eagles' front 7

Advantage: Draw. This is a top 6 run defense from last year that is only getting betterm but dallas has a great RB in Barber and both Jones and Choice look to be good options. Dallas has one of the best (and biggest) O-lines in the league, which really helps their running efforts. But they are without their starting LG. Bunkley is very strong at the point of attack, and is able to hog up blockers like it is nobodies business. Cole is a balnced RDE despite hsi sack numbers, and that really shows how good of an overall player he really is. Patterson had over 100 tackles last year (along with Cole) and for a DT that is very impressive. Parker is a balnced DE and though he may not have a huge game, if he can do what he is supposed to, that will help the defense immesely. Plus we have Gocong and Bradley and Gaither wh are very solid against the run. Barber and the other RBs for Dallas may not have the type of success they are used to. Don't expect Dallas to get less than 40 yards rushing like we did to the Rams though.

Dallas' pass protection vs Eagles' pass rush

Advantage: Eagles.Though Dallas has a huge O-line that is regarded as one of the best, it can be exploited, and we have done it. (last year) Flozell Adams is at a disadvantage with Trent Cole, though both play very well against eachother. These two could have a game like Strahan and Runyan would have. One would beat the other, and then the next play, the other one would make a fool out of him. Andre Gurode is a good Center in the NFL, and Dallas is going to need him, especially with the injury to Kosier, he is going to need to help the LG Corey Proctor. Corey Proctor looks to fill the spot again this week and both Patterson and Bunkley will be able to take advantage of him in the pass and run games. Leonard Davis is is hefty guy at RG, but he doesn't have the quickness or lateral movement like Shawn Andrews. He is a leak in the dam for Dallas pass protection. Columbo and Parker will see a lot fo eachother, and this could be a good even matchup. I think what puts the Eagles over top (just barely) is the scheming by Johnson. I know Dallas has a coach trying to counteract the schemes JJ will brign out, but he just has too many weapons to use in our LBs and guys like Dawk, Q, and Brown. Adn what makes it easier is our LBs are great in coverage, so it will be difficult for Dallas to know where the pressure is coming from. We may even see some uncommon alignments in our defense.

Dallas' receivers vs Eagles' coverage

Advantage: Eagles. Though the Cowboys have two very big threats in TO and Witten, and another threat in Barber, what else do they really have? I'll tell you...Patrick Crayton, Sam Hurd and Isaiah Stanbeck are their only other WRs. Miles Austin is out with an injury. Martellus Bennett, a rookie, is their only other threat at TE. Even so, he is a few years away from fulfilling potential and really making an impact. Felix Jones is a threat as well, and Choice to an extent, but if you look at it, TO, Witten, and Barber are their only threats. (Crayton is a solid option) Now look at our secondary... Asante, Lito, Sheldon, and Dawk are all very good. Q is good and in some situations, Considine is out on the field and has been impressive so far. Bradley is great in coverage and so is Gaither. Reed is a solid contributor. We have four great players (to Dallas' 3 receiving threat) and 3 good options coverage guys (to Dallas' 1) But Dallas will have a solid day passing, they have just enough weapons and some options to work with that we will not shut them down either. Witten and TO (specifically Witten) will need to be at least slowed down, but Romo is a good enough Qb that he will find some of the other options. We match up man on man well, but will be in a lot of zone coverages. Witten is good at finding the holes in the zone, so the advantage that seems heavily in the Eagles favor really isn't as big as it seems.

I'm not going to go too in depth in coaching or special teams. We all know that Reid is more experienced, and more successful than Phillips. It will be fun to see the young "hot shot" offensive coordinator in Jason Garrett and our "wiley old veteran" in JJ battling along the sidelines. Both teams have returners who can make things happen, but Dallas has a slight edge in ST coverage.

Matchup synopsis.
PHI-4 (Donovan, PHI running game, pass rush, and pass coverage)
DAL-1 (pass coverage)
Draw (meanign too close to give clear advantage, could go either way)- 3 (Eagles pass rush vs Dallas' pass protection, Romo vs Eagles coverage, and Dallas Rushing attack vs Eagles' Front 7)

Now here is where we combine these things to get a better idea of how the game will pan out...Our defense is a threat to put pressure on Romo, while our secondary is able to cover well. Dallas may be running the ball more than we expect, especially considering Barber is a great RB, and both Jones and Choice are promising rookies, especially Jones. Now Dallas' defense and our offense are very close, and if you combine the two groups, our offense vs their defense is a very equal matchup. Expect a balanced attack (in AR standards) on offense. The game will come down to line play, penalties, special teams, and luck. This will be a very close NFC East matchup, and you, just liek I are expecting a big win.

Take that however you want. I am done arguing this game.

So.....let's see if I have this straight....you are basically saying that the Eagles>>Cowboys?


Because that's what that post says. I like how you couch your homerism in a ostentatiously objective analysis. Stopped reading when you said that the Eagles pass rush had the advantage against our OL, so don't know what your reasonings were after that. Some things I found interesting/funny:


- The whole Cole vs. Flozell thing. Just so you know, Adams made Cole his ***** last year. In that second game, we had some problems with interior blitzes and such, but Cole was a complete non factor. If you dispute this, don't take my word for it, try reading Dr. Z's (from SI) analysis on why Flozell Adams was on his All-Pro team from last season, he specifically mentions Adams shutting Cole (whom he had high praise for as well, iirc) down, or try KC Joyner who also mentions the whipping Flo laid on him. Or you could just actually, you know, go back and watch the games. This part was funny.


- Calling your OL "dominant" when they were--at best--up and down last year. Thomas is over the hill and allowed 6 sacks last year despite missing a few games due to injury. Herremans is barely above average, if that. Runyan has seen his best days, and while he's still good, is not on the same level he was 3 or 4 years ago. Andrews is a monster, sure, but after the tumultuous offseason he had, we'll see if he can maintain his previous level of play. That leaves Jackson, who is still developing, but certainly nowhere near Pro Bowl caliber from what he's shown to this point. So....with two aging/declining tackles, one young stud with mental issues who may or may not be dominant like before, and two other youngish guys who haven't done much to distinguish themselves, you have a "dominant" OL, but ours--which boasts 3 Pro Bowlers who are all dominant run blockers and (when fully healthy) has at least an above average player at every slot--is just "one of the best". This is the perfect example of fan-speak.


- Not sure what you meant by the 100 tackle thing for Cole and Patterson. It sounded like you were saying that each had over 100 for last season, though it left enough wiggle room to possibly mean that they got 100 combined. Either way, it wasn't true. Patterson had 50 tackles (solo) and Cole had 49. Combined that is 99, heh. The Patterson number is impressive, though. If I'm not mistaken, he led all DTs in tackles.

- Saying that Lito "took advantage" of TO last year.....:D. News flash: TO had a massive game against you in the Linc last year, much of which was at the expense of Lito Sheppard. 10 catches for 174 yards and a TD say that this statement is ludicrous. In the second game, TO got open with regularity but Romo was having the worst day of his career, and over threw him on a wide open long TD in the second quarter where TO had two steps on his man.


- Overall, you guys are talking like we played each other to a stalemate last season. Let's get something on the record. We blew your asses out at your place with your full complement of players, 38-17, and it wasn't even that close. You guys won by 4 points on a day when Romo hurt his throwing hand and missed on several big plays that would have changed the game. With the full body of work from the 8 quarters last year, we were clearly the better team, and we still are today. Tonight, you'll find out the hard way.

bigbluedefense
09-15-2008, 02:22 PM
Well, one thing is for sure, someone is gonna have a huge crow sandwich by the end of tonight.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 02:26 PM
OK man I get it. My words are garbage and yours are gold. But I'm tired of this "you'll see" or "just wait" the fact is you have no proof to back it up, all the while telling everybody else they have none as well. I find it hilarious that htis whole thing got started because I said that it isn't an absolutely crazy idea to sya that our WR group is better, and you inerpreted as me saying that our WRs are better. Thats OK man we'll play the game tonight and you'll see what happens, and just wait until yo play in Philly, haha.

Modano
09-15-2008, 02:27 PM
Well, one thing is for sure, someone is gonna have a huge crow sandwich by the end of tonight.

For real!
Damn I hate Monday Night games, they end around 5.30 AM so I have just a couple of hours to sleep.

scottyboy
09-15-2008, 02:28 PM
srsly, did Metsox really say the Cowboys and Cowboy fans aren't arrogant? This isn't a shot at them, but holy ****, how can you say that?

It could be a close game, but Philly has to eat the clock and give it to Westbrook, who'll be quite effective on screens, short passes etc.

AND Jim Johnson needs to bring up some crazy ass blitzes to get to Romo. Th Cowboys are more talented, no doubt, but they're 2 biggest assests and hopes for this game are Westy and JJ

bigbluedefense
09-15-2008, 02:29 PM
For real!
Damn I hate Monday Night games, they end around 5.30 AM so I have just a couple of hours to sleep.

how do you watch the games from Italy? Satellite?

scottyboy
09-15-2008, 02:29 PM
The Cowboys have one of the top 3 or 4 WR corps in the NFL.

it's statements like these that just make me scratch my head and wonder why

bigbluedefense
09-15-2008, 02:30 PM
srsly, did Metsox really say the Cowboys and Cowboy fans aren't arrogant? This isn't a shot at them, but holy ****, how can you say that?

It could be a close game, but Philly has to eat the clock and give it to Westbrook, who'll be quite effective on screens, short passes etc.

AND Jim Johnson needs to bring up some crazy ass blitzes to get to Romo. Th Cowboys are more talented, no doubt, but they're 2 biggest assests and hopes for this game are Westy and JJ

i wouldn't say that the Cowboys definitely have the more "talented" team as they would like everyone to believe. we'll find out soon enough though.

Go_Eagles77
09-15-2008, 02:30 PM
If the cowboys lose you know they'll just make up excuses, they would never admit that the eagles are the better team.

bigbluedefense
09-15-2008, 02:32 PM
If the cowboys lose you know they'll just make up excuses, they would never admit that the eagles are the better team.

you're telling this to a Giants fan? lmao. hell, i heard it all of last year in the playoffs and even still to this day.

scottyboy
09-15-2008, 02:32 PM
i wouldn't say that the Cowboys definitely have the more "talented" team as they would like everyone to believe. we'll find out soon enough though.

I feel they're one of the most talented teams on paper, I honestly do. But that doesn't mean jack **** as we've all come to know! :D

I should not have used "definately" but I believe they do.

Does that mean I think they'll win? not exactly.

Go_Eagles77
09-15-2008, 02:32 PM
you're telling this to a Giants fan? lmao. hell, i heard it all of last year in the playoffs and even still to this day.

Yep, that's why I said you know, lol.

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 02:33 PM
srsly, did Metsox really say the Cowboys and Cowboy fans aren't arrogant? This isn't a shot at them, but holy ****, how can you say that?

BBD said that the team is arrogant to the point where it's unbearable. I asked how in the heck he got to that conclusion. I'd love some arrogant quotes from Cowboys players.

Edit - Players, not fans. Every team has their fair share of ridiculous fans, yours included, so don't pretend like having some people say their team is the best in the league, with a straight face, is ridiculous.

bigbluedefense
09-15-2008, 02:33 PM
I might sound biased in giving the Eagles more edges than most other fans would, but I think whats being lost in this discussion isn't how talented Dallas is, but moreso how Philly's talent doesn't get enough respect. Philly in my eyes is just as talented as Dallas is. Yet most are saying that Dallas is easily more talented, and I simply do not agree with that at all.

bigbluedefense
09-15-2008, 02:35 PM
BBD said that the team is arrogant to the point where it's unbearable. I asked how in the heck he got to that conclusion. I'd love some arrogant quotes from Cowboys players.

where did i say "to the point where it's unbearable"?

i said theyre arrogant. and they are. im not even gonna waste my time proving that, because its as elementary as 2+2.

scottyboy
09-15-2008, 02:35 PM
BBD said that the team is arrogant to the point where it's unbearable. I asked how in the heck he got to that conclusion. I'd love some arrogant quotes from Cowboys players.

well i don't know, why don't you get your popcorn ready while I find some? (oh dayum scotty's so clever)

and while I do that I'll put some NFCCG tickets on your stool. these are just the first 2 of the top of my head, and god knows I could write a book with stupid arrogant **** said by Crayton.

Modano
09-15-2008, 02:35 PM
how do you watch the games from Italy? Satellite?

Nope, Robert Murdoch screwed us :P SKY Italy bought the NASN package (all american sports except NBA and NFL) a few months ago but ended its contract with the NFL.
So this year I'm using NFL Game Pass HD on my mac. I pay 260 $ a year (only 180 euros fortunately!) and I can see every game every week plus NFL Gameday and NFL Playbook. It's cool because it keeps the games in archive all season long, so in week 10 I can go back and watch a week 2 game, for example...

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 02:37 PM
where did i say "to the point where it's unbearable"?

i said theyre arrogant. and they are. im not even gonna waste my time proving that, because its as elementary as 2+2.

Right, elementary, the only reason you bring that up is because no one respects your team. Since when is it so wrong to feel like you beat yourselves in a playoff game?

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 02:38 PM
well i don't know, why don't you get your popcorn ready while I find some? (oh dayum scotty's so clever)

and while I do that I'll put some NFCCG tickets on your stool. these are just the first 2 of the top of my head, and god knows I could write a book with stupid arrogant **** said by Crayton.

Crayton learned his lesson. I'm pretty sure he's not gonna be saying any more of that junk this year. And besides, all of that is from last year. And how is "get your popcorn ready" being arrogant? He beat the Giants in the regular season like they stole something, he did what he was brought in to do.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 02:39 PM
OK, maybe this will put an end to the insanity.

I am an Eagles fan.

I think the Eagles will win tonight.

I also concede to the fact that the Cowboys can win tonight.

It will be a good game.


Any Cowboy fan want to reciprocate that gesture?

bigbluedefense
09-15-2008, 02:44 PM
Right, elementary, the only reason you bring that up is because no one respects your team. Since when is it so wrong to feel like you beat yourselves in a playoff game?

Because you didn't. Im tired of hearing Cowboys fans claim they beat themselves. You didn't beat yourselves. You lost fair and square to the better team.

And its not even about the Giants. The Cowboys have BEEN talking smack since voluntary workouts. Have you not seen some of the comments? Have you not heard Crayton? Crayton has been talking a ton of smack even after being a choker in the playoffs. As early as the PS he was talking smack about this season.

Newman said in minicamp they have a SB team. I can go on and on. Its a moot point if they back it up, but i don't see how its even debatable that the Cowboys talk a big talk.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 02:47 PM
Right, elementary, the only reason you bring that up is because no one respects your team. Since when is it so wrong to feel like you beat yourselves in a playoff game?

Sorry man, but you gotta face the music. i'm pissed the G-men won just as much as anyone, but they flat out-out played you in the playoffs, and on top of that, they were outcoached. The boys couldn't handle the blitzes that NY brought, and that is the reason you guys lost, you had no time to do what you wanted to execute your game.

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 02:48 PM
Because you didn't. Im tired of hearing Cowboys fans claim they beat themselves. You didn't beat yourselves. You lost fair and square to the better team.

And its not even about the Giants. The Cowboys have BEEN talking smack since voluntary workouts. Have you not seen some of the comments? Have you not heard Crayton? Crayton has been talking a ton of smack even after being a choker in the playoffs. As early as the PS he was talking smack about this season.

Newman said in minicamp they have a SB team. I can go on and on. Its a moot point if they back it up, but i don't see how its even debatable that the Cowboys talk a big talk.

So because the "no one respects us" card worked for your team, all of a sudden, that's the approach that everyone else should take? Let the Cowboys be the Cowboys, and we'll let the Giants be the Giants. Since when is feeling like your team is of Superbowl caliber interpreted as arrogance? No one takes anything away from the run your team had last year, but guess what, that was last year.

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 02:49 PM
Sorry man, but you gotta face the music. i'm pissed the G-men won just as much as anyone, but they flat out-out played you in the playoffs, and on top of that, they were outcoached. The boys couldn't handle the blitzes that NY brought, and that is the reason you guys lost, you had no time to do what you wanted to execute your game.

Who cares why they lost, seriously? I'm not arguing anything about that playoff game. We lost, and i admit it. But how is something that happened last year now being held against the team this year? It's a new year guys, get the heck over it. Crayton opened his yap, he choked, and we lost the game. This year is a new one.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 02:50 PM
So because the "no one respects us" card worked for your team, all of a sudden, that's the approach that everyone else should take? Let the Cowboys be the Cowboys, and we'll let the Giants be the Giants. Since when is feeling like your team is of Superbowl caliber interpreted as arrogance? No one takes anything away from the run your team had last year, but guess what, that was last year.

Well then I guess we should just disregard what Dallas did last year if you are going to take that precedent...

Basileus777
09-15-2008, 02:51 PM
The Cowboys certainly have some loudmouths and arrogant players. But that's not always a bad thing, it seemed to work for the Giants last year.

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 02:51 PM
Well then I guess we should just disregard what Dallas did last year if you are going to take that precedent...

The only reason i brought up what Dallas did last year is because people are saying that "get your popcorn ready" and "we're a SB team" is arrogant. WTF. What do you want them to say??

bigbluedefense
09-15-2008, 02:52 PM
So because the "no one respects us" card worked for your team, all of a sudden, that's the approach that everyone else should take? Let the Cowboys be the Cowboys, and we'll let the Giants be the Giants. Since when is feeling like your team is of Superbowl caliber interpreted as arrogance? No one takes anything away from the run your team had last year, but guess what, that was last year.

im not saying they have to follow in the Giants lead. all i said is they are arrogant. thats all.

the Cowboys are arrogant. its you who seems to have a hard time digesting that tidbit of truth. its known league wide, its not like im saying something thats earth shattering news. everyone already knows it.

Gay Ork Wang
09-15-2008, 02:53 PM
wow there is really anyone out there believing that the Cowboys arent arrogant? People in germany know about it

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 02:53 PM
im not saying they have to follow in the Giants lead. all i said is they are arrogant. thats all.

the Cowboys are arrogant. its you who seems to have a hard time digesting that tidbit of truth. its known league wide, its not like im saying something thats earth shattering news. everyone already knows it.

Well i guess me and you have some obvious differences on our interpretations of arrogance. Walking around like you own the place is arrogance. Believing in the talent you have, and what you can accomplish with said talent is CONFIDENCE, not arrogance.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 02:54 PM
The only reason i brought up what Dallas did last year is because people are saying that "get your popcorn ready" and "we're a SB team" is arrogant. WTF. What do you want them to say??

You brought up NY's run in the playoffs, and your regular season, and all you guys are talking about is how great you are because of that. But when bringing up another team, all of a sudden it now becomes, "Oh, well, that was last year."

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 02:55 PM
wow there is really anyone out there believing that the Cowboys arent arrogant? People in germany know about it

Do not get political! Even obama in his hole knows the 'boys are arrogant.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 02:56 PM
Metsox, do you get HBO?

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 02:57 PM
No, i don't, and i haven't kept up with HardKnocks, if that's what you're going to bring up.

scottyboy
09-15-2008, 03:02 PM
Crayton learned his lesson. I'm pretty sure he's not gonna be saying any more of that junk this year. And besides, all of that is from last year. And how is "get your popcorn ready" being arrogant? He beat the Giants in the regular season like they stole something, he did what he was brought in to do.

so now because he "learned his lesson" he isn't arrogant anymore? that's a crock of ****. There've been a lot of homerish outlandish things said, but the fact you think the cowboys aren't arrogant tops the cake.

and what about the NFCCG tickets? you magically skipped over that. even your ******* owner is arrogant.

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 03:05 PM
so now because he "learned his lesson" he isn't arrogant anymore? that's a crock of ****. There've been a lot of homerish outlandish things said, but the fact you think the cowboys aren't arrogant tops the cake.

and what about the NFCCG tickets? you magically skipped over that. even your ******* owner is arrogant.

There's really no defending the Jerry comments, but why still be upset at what Crayton said about last years game? You won that game already, get over it. He got it thrown back in his face, maybe he'll learn this lesson this time around. And it's so funny how you're so quick call out "homer" when the majority of your posts are made in the most subjective of tones. I'll refer you back to my other post for the rest of your "argument".

Well i guess me and you have some obvious differences on our interpretations of arrogance. Walking around like you own the place is arrogance. Believing in the talent you have, and what you can accomplish with said talent is CONFIDENCE, not arrogance.

scottyboy
09-15-2008, 03:10 PM
There's really no defending the Jerry comments, but why still be upset at what Crayton said about last years game? You won that game already, get over it. He got it thrown back in his face, maybe he'll learn this lesson this time around. And it's so funny how you're so quick call out "homer" when the majority of your posts are made in the most subjective of tones. I'll refer you back to my other post for the rest of your "argument".

wait, wait, wait! you asked for examples of arrogance from the Cowboys, I brought up a Crayton comment. I said NOTHING about the game. I'm not upset at him, I laugh at him. every day when I see my SB 42 posters, I truely truely do. I just gave you 2 examples of arrogance and you tell me to get over last years game, cool.

I'm 100% homer, and self-admitted. BUT the difference is, I'm rarely serious. Arguments like this are just like, sad. That you can't honestly see the Cowboys are an arrogant team. That's like saying the Bengals are a team of saints...(sorry for the shot bengals fans, just a joke and example)

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 03:14 PM
wait, wait, wait! you asked for examples of arrogance from the Cowboys, I brought up a Crayton comment. I said NOTHING about the game. I'm not upset at him, I laugh at him. every day when I see my SB 42 posters, I truely truely do. I just gave you 2 examples of arrogance and you tell me to get over last years game, cool.

I'm 100% homer, and self-admitted. BUT the difference is, I'm rarely serious. Arguments like this are just like, sad. That you can't honestly see the Cowboys are an arrogant team. That's like saying the Bengals are a team of saints...(sorry for the shot bengals fans, just a joke and example)

Okay, i see what you're saying. But now what ONE player said about last year's game, makes the WHOLE team arrogant? At least you're not generalizing. :rolleyes:

Your analogy is completely off-base and of no use to this argument, because arrogance is all but a matter of opinion. If you don't want to take mine because i'm a Cowboys fan, that's fine. But don't expect me to take yours seriously either, a guy who's a fan of my rival team.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 03:18 PM
OK, maybe this will put an end to the insanity.

I am an Eagles fan.

I think the Eagles will win tonight.

I also concede to the fact that the Cowboys can win tonight.

It will be a good game.


Any Cowboy fan want to reciprocate that gesture?

No takers?

DMWSackMachine
09-15-2008, 03:18 PM
Would you classify "the division comes through us" as an arrogant statement, when the person saying it hasn't participated in a division championship in 2 years and is in the midst of a 4-8 start to the season? That would be McNabb.

Oh, and how about this gem: "We are the best team in the NFC", again from a player who hasn't even won his division, let alone the conference in three years, and is coming off a horrible season that was only slightly salvaged by a late push?

Aside from Crayton, who admittedly has a big mouth and is very brash, the Cowboys as a team are as humble as they come. Even with all the SB talk circulating in the media, you can't find a single player who will entertain the notion that they have done anything yet. To a man, they all say that they need to win a playoff game and go from there.

I really don't know where all this talk is coming from.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 03:21 PM
Okay, i see what you're saying. But now what ONE player said about last year's game, makes the WHOLE team arrogant? At least you're not generalizing. :rolleyes:

Your analogy is completely off-base and of no use to this argument, because arrogance is all but a matter of opinion. If you don't want to take mine because i'm a Cowboys fan, that's fine. But don't expect me to take yours seriously either, a guy who's a fan of my rival team.

It isn't just Crayton, its TO, JJ, Wade, Pacman, Ware, and pretty much all of your linemen. If you had seen hard knocks you would know. I have friends who are Cowboy fans who watch that show, and they even told me the boys were being cocky. I saw one episode when I was on vacation (don't get HBO) and I turned it off after 10 kinutes because it ticked me off how "overconfident", if you prefer that word, they were.

Sniper
09-15-2008, 03:22 PM
DMW, you still haven't explained to me how Dallas has a better RB and coach.

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 03:23 PM
It isn't just Crayton, its TO, JJ, Wade, Pacman, Ware, and pretty much all of your linemen. If you had seen hard knocks you would know. I have friends who are Cowboy fans who watch that show, and they even told me the boys were being cocky. I saw one episode when I was on vacation (don't get HBO) and I turned it off after 10 kinutes because it ticked me off how "overconfident", if you prefer that word, they were.

If you're gonna bring something up, quote it. Or else don't talk about it.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 03:25 PM
Would you classify "the division comes through us" as an arrogant statement, when the person saying it hasn't participated in a division championship in 2 years and is in the midst of a 4-8 start to the season? That would be McNabb.

Oh, and how about this gem: "We are the best team in the NFC", again from a player who hasn't even won his division, let alone the conference in three years, and is coming off a horrible season that was only slightly salvaged by a late push?

Aside from Crayton, who admittedly has a big mouth and is very brash, the Cowboys as a team are as humble as they come. Even with all the SB talk circulating in the media, you can't find a single player who will entertain the notion that they have done anything yet. To a man, they all say that they need to win a playoff game and go from there.

I really don't know where all this talk is coming from.

First off, "The division comes through us" Was on a sign that a fan had at a game. Unless you think that fan is one of us, that is complete and utter BS.

Haven't heard your so-called gem, I honestly think you are making crap up now.

TO, JJ, Wade, and numerous other players have talked down on their competition since the spring, get wiht the picture.

Sniper
09-15-2008, 03:26 PM
We blew your asses out at your place with your full complement of players, 38-17

http://www.gamingmmo.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/o_rly.jpg

All-Pro safety Brian Dawkins returned for Philadelphia after missing five games with a neck stinger. ... Sheppard left with a knee injury and didn't return.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=271104021

DMWSackMachine
09-15-2008, 03:27 PM
OK, maybe this will put an end to the insanity.

I am an Eagles fan.

I think the Eagles will win tonight.

I also concede to the fact that the Cowboys can win tonight.

It will be a good game.


Any Cowboy fan want to reciprocate that gesture?


Sure, I feel the same way.

Listen, lost in all of this is the fact that I have a lot of respect for this Eagles team. In the pre season power ranking threads I specifically mentioned that they weren't getting enough respect, and I had them with Jax, GB, and
NY as my 6-9 teams in the league. I like them and think they are very talented.

I also concede that they have a good chance to win tonight, and that I expect it to be a competitive game.

I just believe that Dallas is a significantly better team, which--if true--is in no way demeaning what the Eagles have going themselves.

I think that if Philly can pull it out tonight, that they should be considered the favorites in the NFC moving forward. Is that good enough?

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 03:27 PM
If you're gonna bring something up, quote it. Or else don't talk about it.

So just because I can't repeat what I heard verbatum over a moonth ago on tv and from fans of the team that makes it untrue. Next thing you say I wasn't born because I don't remember it happening.

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 03:29 PM
So just because I can't repeat what I heard verbatum over a moonth ago on tv and from fans of the team that makes it untrue. Next thing you say I wasn't born because I don't remember it happening.

Fallacies, fallacies, fallacies.

No, but at this point, i'd give no credibility to homer eagles fans when it comes to something that our players said.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 03:29 PM
Sure, I feel the same way.

Listen, lost in all of this is the fact that I have a lot of respect for this Eagles team. In the pre season power ranking threads I specifically mentioned that they weren't getting enough respect, and I had them with Jax, GB, and
NY as my 6-9 teams in the league. I like them and think they are very talented.

I also concede that they have a good chance to win tonight, and that I expect it to be a competitive game.

I just believe that Dallas is a significantly better team, which--if true--is in no way demeaning what the Eagles have going themselves.

I think that if Philly can pull it out tonight, that they should be considered the favorites in the NFC moving forward. Is that good enough?
We have found a common ground.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 03:31 PM
Fallacies, fallacies, fallacies.

No, but at this point, i'd give no credibility to homer eagles fans when it comes to something that our players said.

Un-







be-








lievable.

I have not made anything up in this whole conversation. I have given my opinions, and those are the only things that aren't regarded as "law". But if you don't want to believe me fine. Won't bother me a bit.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 03:37 PM
Saying that Lito "took advantage" of TO last year.....:D. News flash: TO had a massive game against you in the Linc last year, much of which was at the expense of Lito Sheppard. 10 catches for 174 yards and a TD say that this statement is ludicrous. In the second game, TO got open with regularity but Romo was having the worst day of his career, and over threw him on a wide open long TD in the second quarter where TO had two steps on his man.


http://www.gamingmmo.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/o_rly.jpg



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=271104021

I for one will call BS on DSW there.

DMWSackMachine
09-15-2008, 03:43 PM
First off, "The division comes through us" Was on a sign that a fan had at a game. Unless you think that fan is one of us, that is complete and utter BS.

Haven't heard your so-called gem, I honestly think you are making crap up now.

TO, JJ, Wade, and numerous other players have talked down on their competition since the spring, get wiht the picture.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp08/columns/story?columnist=mosley_matt&id=3531274

"I still put us at the top of the NFC," McNabb told ESPN.com Monday.

This was in Mosley's blog on ESPN.


As for last year, I won't take the time to dig up the quote, but he told NUMEROUS media outlets that the division came through the Eagles until someone knocked them off. I can't believe you never heard of it.

Go_Eagles77
09-15-2008, 03:46 PM
"the top of the NFC" doesn't necessarily mean the best team in the NFC, and that's confidence, not arrogance.

DMWSackMachine
09-15-2008, 03:48 PM
http://www.gamingmmo.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/o_rly.jpg



http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=271104021

Are you really that slow?

Did you have all your meaningful players or not? And Lito didn't leave until after the game had become a laugher. Are you really this desperate?

My point was, its not like you had even a lame "we were missing so-and-so" excuse to fall back on. You just had your asses handed to you at home with all your players. Almost every player has nagging injuries and bumps/bruises they deal with. They played, so no excuses.

DMWSackMachine
09-15-2008, 03:49 PM
"the top of the NFC" doesn't necessarily mean the best team in the NFC, and that's confidence, not arrogance.

Wow........

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 03:49 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp08/columns/story?columnist=mosley_matt&id=3531274



This was in Mosley's blog on ESPN.


As for last year, I won't take the time to dig up the quote, but he told NUMEROUS media outlets that the division came through the Eagles until someone knocked them off. I can't believe you never heard of it.

Its like Metzox said for the Cowboys. Another example of these double standards. The difference. Donovan is asked about it. The players for the boys bring it up. What was Donovan supposed to say?

"No Matt Mosely, the Eagles suck and we are only going to get this one win this year. I hope my O-line doesn't piss themselves lining up against the great cowboy defense. I think I'll take a knee every snap so I don't get my head ripped off."

After writing that, is sounds mean and condescending, but it isn't meant to be that way. I think it get the point across though.

eaglesalltheway
09-15-2008, 03:52 PM
Seriously guys I'm done with this thread until after the game. It will only get me more aggrevated for what surely looks to be a great game. I plan on sitting back and realxing. I encourage everyone else invovled in this discussion to do the same, because as of right now all we are doing in this thread is contributing to the future heart attack victims of America.

Go_Eagles77
09-15-2008, 03:58 PM
Wow........

Uhhhhh what?

Go_Eagles77
09-15-2008, 04:07 PM
Wow........

After reading the last couple posts of this thread, I'm assuming you are basing this off the fact that members of the cowboys said the same thing and were called arrogant, I actually agree that saying you are a superbowl team is confidence, however saying that you will be in the superbowl is arrogance, McNabb didn't guarantee a NFC Championship, he just basically said they have the potential to do it. I actually don't think the majority of the cowboys are arrogant, but there are a few who have had their moments, my argument through this whole thread is it's the cowboys fans who are arrogant, not necisarily the players.

DMWSackMachine
09-15-2008, 04:15 PM
After reading the last couple posts of this thread, I'm assuming you are basing this off the fact that members of the cowboys said the same thing and were called arrogant, I actually agree that saying you are a superbowl team is confidence, however saying that you will be in the superbowl is arrogance, McNabb didn't guarantee a NFC Championship, he just basically said they have the potential to do it. I actually don't think the majority of the cowboys are arrogant, but there are a few who have had their moments, my argument through this whole thread is it's the cowboys fans who are arrogant, not necisarily the players.

Looks like you worked it out. I am not saying that McNabb is arrogant (though maybe delusional after what he said last year) or even the Eagles as a team, I was just simply pointing out the double standard. I think a team should believe in itself as being SB quality, because you have to do so in order to be Super Bowl quality. I have no problem with him saying that.

But if a Cowboy player said that, it would be interpreted as arrogance or cockiness, and the comments made in this thread prove that.

I have yet to see or hear a single substantiated instance of this so called brash behavior that everyone is accusing Dallas of.

Turtlepower
09-15-2008, 04:25 PM
If you're gonna bring something up, quote it. Or else don't talk about it.

Get the Ring Finger Ready.
The Best Team Lost.

Wade Phillips has never shown himself as a classy kind of guy. And you gotta be kidding me saying that T.O. isn't cocky.

"the top of the NFC" doesn't necessarily mean the best team in the NFC, and that's confidence, not arrogance.

Let me illustrate for you:

Top = Best. End of story. Can you really be that naive to think that top doesn't mean best in this scenario.

Come on Eagles and Cowboys fans. Stop being such homers and actually listen to each other instead of saying some of the stupidest **** I've read in awhile.

scottyboy
09-15-2008, 04:34 PM
The Cowboys have one of the top 3 or 4 WR corps in the NFL.

I'm still waiting for an answer to this gem...

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 04:35 PM
Wade Phillips has never shown himself as a classy kind of guy. And you gotta be kidding me saying that T.O. isn't cocky.



Let me illustrate for you:

Top = Best. End of story. Can you really be that naive to think that top doesn't mean best in this scenario.

Come on Eagles and Cowboys fans. Stop being such homers and actually listen to each other instead of saying some of the stupidest **** I've read in awhile.

That's fine, man. I never said that we didn't have guys talking smack. We did and it hit the fan. But there was, what, three guys that were talking (Jerry, Wade and Crayton)? All of a sudden, the team is built on arrogance? Give me a break. And this just goes to the people that were saying that the Cowboys as a team, were arrogant.

Turtlepower
09-15-2008, 04:36 PM
I'm still waiting for an answer to this gem...

The funny thing is that they have their WR corps is 3rd in the NFC East.

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 04:37 PM
The funny thing is that they have their WR corps is 3rd in the NFC East.

I can listen to the Giants argument, but you seriously are delusional if you think the Deadskins have a better WR corps than we do.

Turtlepower
09-15-2008, 04:39 PM
That's fine, man. I never said that we didn't have guys talking smack. We did and it hit the fan. But there was, what, three guys that were talking (Jerry, Wade and Crayton)? All of a sudden, the team is built on arrogance? Give me a break. And this just goes to the people that were saying that the Cowboys as a team, were arrogant.

"Get your popcorn ready?"

scottyboy
09-15-2008, 04:39 PM
That's fine, man. I never said that we didn't have guys talking smack. We did and it hit the fan. But there was, what, three guys that were talking (Jerry, Wade and Crayton)? All of a sudden, the team is built on arrogance? Give me a break. And this just goes to the people that were saying that the Cowboys as a team, were arrogant.

lets just forget that TO and Pacman are 2 of the most arrogant players in the NFL. Even Marion Barbershop has a little too much confidence for a guy who hasn't started a full NFL season...

but no, no I mean the Cowboys are perfect. in Philly, it was all McNabb's fault, TO took the fall. Pacman didn't shoot anybody or anything, nope. and none of those guns were Tank Johnsons, they were all Urlachers, right? And ******* Jessica Simpson is the root of all evil and is the reason the Giants magically won that game...I mean how the Cowboys lost it and the Giants are **** and didn't do anything.

Turtlepower
09-15-2008, 04:41 PM
I can listen to the Giants argument, but you seriously are delusional if you think the Deadskins have a better WR corps than we do.

Who would you rather have?

Owens, Crayton, Hurd, Stanbach

or

Moss, Randle El, Thrash, Thomas

Owens is better than Moss, but all of the other 3 are better than their counter-parts.

scottyboy
09-15-2008, 04:41 PM
Who would you rather have?

Owens, Crayton, Hurd, Stanbach

or

Moss, Randle El, Thrash, Thomas

Owens is better than Moss, but all of the other 3 are better than their counter-parts.

this one is tough, as thrash is trash(i'm on fire today), but I'll take the upside of Kelly and THomas to Hurd, Stanbach and Austin

Turtlepower
09-15-2008, 04:45 PM
This thread clearly shows that the Giants have the most sensible fan base in the NFC East. =D

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 04:47 PM
lets just forget that TO and Pacman are 2 of the most arrogant players in the NFL. Even Marion Barbershop has a little too much confidence for a guy who hasn't started a full NFL season...

but no, no I mean the Cowboys are perfect. in Philly, it was all McNabb's fault, TO took the fall. Pacman didn't shoot anybody or anything, nope. and none of those guns were Tank Johnsons, they were all Urlachers, right? And ******* Jessica Simpson is the root of all evil and is the reason the Giants magically won that game...I mean how the Cowboys lost it and the Giants are **** and didn't do anything.

LOL, this is seriously getting out of hand. How the hell were Tank Johnson and Adam Jones brought up? LOL. This is ridiculous, i'm not even gonna respond to anything you have to say anymore.

"Get your popcorn ready?"

T.O has been everything he was hyped to be for the Cowboys. He has even stuck it to everyone that thought he would implode and cause this team to tear apart. Owens is a confident, you could say cocky player, but i'll be damned if he doesn't do his part on the field. This has nothing to do with Owens.

Who would you rather have?

Owens, Crayton, Hurd, Stanbach

or

Moss, Randle El, Thrash, Thomas

Owens is better than Moss, but all of the other 3 are better than their counter-parts.

Owens is better than anything Washington could ever imagine having. He gives more weight to our unit. Crayton and Randle El are about the same. One guy runs crisp routes and has soft hands, the other guy is really fast. Hurd is better than anything else the Skins have after Randle El (who he's probably better than). If you haven't seen him play, don't offer judgment. Devin Thomas can't even see the field yet, so he's just as good for the Redskins as Stanback is for us.

yo123
09-15-2008, 04:50 PM
Who would you rather have?

Owens, Crayton, Hurd, Stanbach

or

Moss, Randle El, Thrash, Thomas

Owens is better than Moss, but all of the other 3 are better than their counter-parts.


The difference between Owens and Moss is big enough to render the other 3 matchups useless anyway but I would put Crayton and Hurd over Randel El and Thrash.

Thrash is completely useless, he's caught 52 passes in the last 4 years, at least Hurd has some upside, and he was more productive last year also. Crayton and Randel El are pretty comaparable, and Thomas/Stanback aren't really factors at the moment.

scottyboy
09-15-2008, 04:50 PM
LOL, this is seriously getting out of hand. How the hell were Tank Johnson and Adam Jones brought up? LOL. This is ridiculous, i'm not even gonna respond to anything you have to say anymore.


you CLEARLY didn't get the jist of that last part, it went straight over your head...

as for the Wash-Dal WR argument, would you not take the potential of 2 2nd rounders in Thomas and Kelly over Austin, Stanbeck and Hurd?

I still want someone to defend DSM, or have him defend himself. top 3-4 is just crazy.

Turtlepower
09-15-2008, 04:50 PM
LOL, this is seriously getting out of hand. How the hell were Tank Johnson and Adam Jones brought up? LOL. This is ridiculous, i'm not even gonna respond to anything you have to say anymore.



T.O has been everything he was hyped to be for the Cowboys. He has even stuck it to everyone that thought he would implode and cause this team to tear apart. Owens is a confident, you could say cocky player, but i'll be damned if he doesn't do his part on the field. This has nothing to do with Owens.



Owens is better than anything Washington could ever imagine having. He gives more weight to our unit. Crayton and Randle El are about the same. One guy runs crisp routes and has soft hands, the other guy is really fast. Hurd is better than anything else the Skins have after Randle El (who he's probably better than). If you haven't seen him play, don't offer judgment. Devin Thomas can't even see the field yet, so he's just as good for the Redskins as Stanback is for us.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Seriously, I can't believe you think that someone who has caught 24 career passes is better than Randle El.

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 04:52 PM
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Seriously, I can't believe you think that someone who has caught 24 career passes is better than Randle El.

Ummm... what??

126 receptions, 1798 yds, 14 td's.

You're confusing him with Sam Hurd, our third receiver.

Edit - You were referring to the parenthesis. You could make the argument that Hurd is better, or will be better before this season ends. Randle El is a one trick pony.

Turtlepower
09-15-2008, 04:55 PM
Ummm... what??

126 receptions, 1798 yds, 14 td's.

You're confusing him with Sam Hurd, our third receiver.

Edit - You were referring to the parenthesis. You could make the argument that Hurd is better, or will be better before this season ends. Randle El is a one trick pony.

I thought you were saying that Hurd was better than Randle El. Anyway, I still think that Randle El is better than Crayton as well.

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 04:57 PM
I thought you were saying that Hurd was better than Randle El. Anyway, I still think that Randle El is better than Crayton as well.

Well even if you do, Owens + Crayton is light years ahead of Moss + Randle El. And Hurd is better than Trash.

CC.SD
09-15-2008, 05:03 PM
Ummm... what??

126 receptions, 1798 yds, 14 td's.

You're confusing him with Sam Hurd, our third receiver.

Edit - You were referring to the parenthesis. You could make the argument that Hurd is better, or will be better before this season ends. Randle El is a one trick pony.

Randle El has two tricks, he can catch and throw. Duh. :D

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 05:05 PM
Randle El has two tricks, he can catch and throw. Duh. :D

The trick i was referring to WAS throwing. He can't catch.

CC.SD
09-15-2008, 05:07 PM
The trick i was referring to WAS throwing. He can't catch.

Oooooh I shoulda known. Well it can't be denied his Monday Night Intro rocks.

bigbluedefense
09-15-2008, 05:11 PM
I don't know about Washington having a better WR core than Dallas. It all depends on how well the 2 rooks perform this year. Even then though, I might still give the edge to Dallas. It depends really. Crayton is a solid #2, but outside of TO and Crayton, the Cowboys don't have anyone that wows you. Just a bunch of guys who get the typical dallas hype that will in all likelihood disappoint if relied upon to take the reigns in 2 years or so.

Dallas absolutely in no way, shape or form has a top 3-4 WR core in the league. They don't even have the best WR core in the East. The Giants do.

Eagles WR core is very underrated (especially if you count Westbrook as part of it) but i'll give the edge to Dallas because they have TO. Outside of TO though, Philly has better WRs.

Dallas clearly has the better TE though. Jason Witten is the best TE in the league. Yes. The league. I said it.

CC.SD
09-15-2008, 05:14 PM
Dallas clearly has the better TE though. Jason Witten is the best TE in the league. Yes. The league. I said it.


I'll give this to you because it's not definitely Winslow, Gonzalez isn't getting any younger, and nobody has any idea what is going on with Gates, aside from he's hurt but still producing somewhat.

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 05:16 PM
I don't know about Washington having a better WR core than Dallas. It all depends on how well the 2 rooks perform this year. Even then though, I might still give the edge to Dallas. It depends really. Crayton is a solid #2, but outside of TO and Crayton, the Cowboys don't have anyone that wows you. Just a bunch of guys who get the typical dallas hype that will in all likelihood disappoint if relied upon to take the reigns in 2 years or so.

Dallas absolutely in no way, shape or form has a top 3-4 WR core in the league. They don't even have the best WR core in the East. The Giants do.

Eagles WR core is very underrated (especially if you count Westbrook as part of it) but i'll give the edge to Dallas because they have TO. Outside of TO though, Philly has better WRs.

Dallas clearly has the better TE though. Jason Witten is the best TE in the league. Yes. The league. I said it.

That's not really going out on a limb though. The only competition he really has is from Gates. Winslow just isn't a complete enough TE yet. Heath Miller is getting there though.

bigbluedefense
09-15-2008, 05:18 PM
That's not really going out on a limb though. The only competition he really has is from Gates. Winslow just isn't a complete enough TE yet. Heath Miller is getting there though.

Some ppl would consider it blasphemy if you mention anyone but Gates. I think Winslow could potentially be the guy, but not yet. Like you said, Witten is a much better blocker.

Miller is vastly underrated.

I'll give this to you because it's not definitely Winslow, Gonzalez isn't getting any younger, and nobody has any idea what is going on with Gates, aside from he's hurt but still producing somewhat.

I still think Gates is a more dynamic WR, but he's not nearly the blocker Witten is. I take Witten's overall package over Gates for now. Don't get me wrong, Gates is still a beast though.

Go_Eagles77
09-15-2008, 05:19 PM
I don't know about Washington having a better WR core than Dallas. It all depends on how well the 2 rooks perform this year. Even then though, I might still give the edge to Dallas. It depends really. Crayton is a solid #2, but outside of TO and Crayton, the Cowboys don't have anyone that wows you. Just a bunch of guys who get the typical dallas hype that will in all likelihood disappoint if relied upon to take the reigns in 2 years or so.

Dallas absolutely in no way, shape or form has a top 3-4 WR core in the league. They don't even have the best WR core in the East. The Giants do.

Eagles WR core is very underrated (especially if you count Westbrook as part of it) but i'll give the edge to Dallas because they have TO. Outside of TO though, Philly has better WRs.

Dallas clearly has the better TE though. Jason Witten is the best TE in the league. Yes. The league. I said it.

I've been trying to say this all week, but of course that made me the biggest homer in NFLDC history. :rolleyes:

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 05:21 PM
I've been trying to say this all week, but of course that made me the biggest homer in NFLDC history. :rolleyes:

Well duh.

Okay, but no one is expecting anyone to agree here, especially fans of rival teams.

Just accept that our team owns the world.

Okay, just kidding. Let's stop.

bigbluedefense
09-15-2008, 05:22 PM
I've been trying to say this all week, but of course that made me the biggest homer in NFLDC history. :rolleyes:

haha, it is what it is man. the wait is killing me. 2 more hours, and knowing espn, theyll kickoff at 9 bc of all the BS pregame :(

DMWSackMachine
09-15-2008, 05:30 PM
DMW, you still haven't explained to me how Dallas has a better RB and coach.




As for the Dallas vs. Philly breakdown, I see it like this:

QB: Dallas
RB: Philly
WR: Dallas
OL: Dallas
DL: Dallas
LB: Dallas
DB: Dallas
ST: Even
Coach: Philly



____________________________________

scottyboy
09-15-2008, 05:33 PM
good, DSM, you're here. please explain how Dallas has a top 3-4 WR corp in the league. please, I'm very eager to hear this

Go_Eagles77
09-15-2008, 05:56 PM
I'm done for now and probably won't be back to discuss the game until tomorrow afternoon, hopefully the eagles don't make me look like an idiot.

BlindSite
09-15-2008, 05:58 PM
1. Arizona
2. Indianapolis
3. New England
4. Cincinnati

yo123
09-15-2008, 06:07 PM
1. Arizona
2. Indianapolis
3. New England
4. Cincinnati

I would put the Lions and Packers ahead of the Cowboys as well. Maybe the Steelers.

DMWSackMachine
09-15-2008, 07:22 PM
you CLEARLY didn't get the jist of that last part, it went straight over your head...

as for the Wash-Dal WR argument, would you not take the potential of 2 2nd rounders in Thomas and Kelly over Austin, Stanbeck and Hurd?

I still want someone to defend DSM, or have him defend himself. top 3-4 is just crazy.

I didn't think I needed to. If we're talking last season, it should be evident that they were among the very best in the league. Getting anyone to agree on the criteria for grading a WRing corps is damn near impossible, so that will impact the debate, obviously. However, what I think you are looking for is the ability to move the ball and score TDs, with special consideration given to making big plays. Dallas matched up with any team in the league last year in any category you can come up with.

People don't realize that your #1 WR is the biggest part of the pie, and #2 is a most of what's left, except for the few teams who have two #1s. Anything after that is--depending on the system--almost completely irrelevant. I read a stat the other day, wish I could come up with the source, but based upon my own observation it sounded right, but Dallas had the most completions in the NFL last season out of 2 WR sets. We don't use our 3rd guy much, relative to what the rest of the league does. Instead, we flex Witten out and he plays WR. He lined up as a WR 30% of the time last year (which was actually below average among elite TE pass catchers).

I should disclose now that I count Witten partially when ranking our WR corps. He plays there nearly a third of the time, so I think its fair to count 30% of his production as such. If we eliminate him, I would still have us in the 5-8 range.

Anyhow, here's roughly how I see it:

1. NE
2. Arizona
3. Indy


After that, I have Dallas grouped right in with Cinncy and possibly Detroit. I gotta run now for the game, but I will continue on my reasoning if anyone is interested. Ciao.

giantsfan
09-15-2008, 07:48 PM
I'm going to complete the homer cycle in this thread and pronounce that the Giants have the best receiving corps. in the NFC East if Witten isn't considered a fulltime receiver. Plax at this point has taken his game to another level and is on TO's level, I'd give TO the nod but Plax isn't a full step down. From that point we have much better depth, with Toomer being a great possession vet who's our QBs safety blanket and a god at getting his feet in bounds, smith who's the prototype for a slot WR in this scheme and the dou of Manningham's big play ability and Hixon's allaround improvement gives us plenty of different weapons to attack defenses with. Not counting Sinorice as he can't make an impact in the regular season.

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 10:56 PM
Edit Edit Edit

yo123
09-15-2008, 10:57 PM
Woo, that Philly secondary sure is elite ;)

And Dallas' secondary may just be the best secondary of the decade.

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 11:11 PM
And Dallas' secondary may just be the best secondary of the decade.

They were both equally putrid. I can't believe we hardly blitzed or pressed on their WR's, but ah well. Williams and Henry were the ones that stood out a bit to me in coverage, especially Roy on that pass to DeSean.

Modano
09-15-2008, 11:12 PM
What a game! I'm so excited I can't go to sleep and my alarm wll turn on in a couple of hours :D
Anyway, Dawkins sure has lost more than a step, Witten killed him :)

MetSox17
09-15-2008, 11:13 PM
What a game! I'm so excited I can't go to sleep and my alarm wll turn on in a couple of hours :D
Anyway, Dawkins sure has lost more than a step, Witten killed him :)

You took the words out of my mouth. I just didn't wanna be accused of starting a flame war. But yeah, Witten was beating him like he stole somethin'.

DMWSackMachine
09-16-2008, 01:34 AM
*sits speechless trying to think of something to say*


....



....





Wow.




Well, I was right on several things I had been pushing earlier in this thread, as well as wrong on more than a couple of others.

But, without having read any of the other comments since my last post, I just want to start by saying that I am going to pass on whatever bragging rights this game may have earned us as a fan base.

This game was a gift.

It was just a pure joy to watch. These are the games that keep us hooked to this sport, to the pursuit of sports in a broader sense. This was special. It was, quite simply, two Super Bowl caliber teams going back and forth. I'll get more into it tomorrow (unless a combination of excitement and catching up on this thread render me an insomniac) as far as the specifics go, but right now I am just bathing in the afterglow of an amazing sporting event.

All I will say right now is that, while I had a healthy respect for this Eagle team before tonight, I will admit point blank that I did underestimate them to a certain extent.


This is going to be one helluva season.

eaglesalltheway
09-16-2008, 06:33 AM
*sits speechless trying to think of something to say*


....



....





Wow.




Well, I was right on several things I had been pushing earlier in this thread, as well as wrong on more than a couple of others.

But, without having read any of the other comments since my last post, I just want to start by saying that I am going to pass on whatever bragging rights this game may have earned us as a fan base.

This game was a gift.

It was just a pure joy to watch. These are the games that keep us hooked to this sport, to the pursuit of sports in a broader sense. This was special. It was, quite simply, two Super Bowl caliber teams going back and forth. I'll get more into it tomorrow (unless a combination of excitement and catching up on this thread render me an insomniac) as far as the specifics go, but right now I am just bathing in the afterglow of an amazing sporting event.

All I will say right now is that, while I had a healthy respect for this Eagle team before tonight, I will admit point blank that I did underestimate them to a certain extent.


This is going to be one helluva season.

I feel the same way, (just imagine how I'd feel if the Eagles won) on all counts, and the weird part is, neither team played as well as they can. Too many turnovers and field goals on both teams. Neither defnese played as well as i expected (obcviously). Both turned it around a bit in the second half, but in the end, the offenses were still the stars. There were so many aspects to that game that were great, it really was a gift to football fans, you are right. We finally had a "big game" that lived up to its billing. i just iwsh I wouldn't have had to listen to Kornheiser, a.k.a. Mrs. Jerry Jones, for the whole game.

That being said, I am extremely pissed that we lost, but if we were going to lose to them, I have to say I would want that type of effort. I couldn't sleep last night knowing that we shuld have one that game. (Dallas fans, don't take that as a slight to your team) It is just we were in command of the our future at several points in the fourth quarter, but those two fumbles came back to kill us, and I knew they would too. I know that Romo really helped the Eagles with the pick and the fumble in the end zone, and you can make the argument that if it weren't for those two plays, Philly would not have even been in that game. There are a lot of "ifs" that both sides can bring up, but the sad truth (for me and Eagles fans anyway) is that what happened happened, and nothing will change that. I look forward to one more week of screaming in the forums the next time we play, to finish the season I think, and with how the two teams played tonight, that could be a very, very meaningful game. Until then, I shall be classy and kind to Cowboy fans as much as possible, but once week 17 comes around I expect nothing but the same, from both fnas, haha.

If you wish Cowboy fans, you can imagine me eating ****, haha.

vatech=accdomination
09-16-2008, 07:11 AM
Dallas has the best pair of TE's in the league, Bennett=2nd round steal.

Sniper
09-16-2008, 07:16 AM
You took the words out of my mouth. I just didn't wanna be accused of starting a flame war. But yeah, Witten was beating him like he stole somethin'.

The best TE in the league will win his fair share of battles....

MetSox17
09-16-2008, 09:39 AM
My Team goal, number one, is to get to the playoffs and win a playoff game.
-Terrell Owens

Cocky indeed.

Modano
09-16-2008, 09:41 AM
.....

The announcers were terrible, really. How do they have a job?
Also the commercials were terrible on ESPN HD. Only the "F¨tbol Americano" ones were good :D

Sniper
09-16-2008, 09:42 AM
-Terrell Owens

Cocky indeed.

Actions>words

MetSox17
09-16-2008, 09:45 AM
Actions>words

I don't understand what more you want the guy to do. He says all the right things and is a great team player. He plays hard every down and practices just as hard. So what's the deal?

bigbluedefense
09-16-2008, 10:08 AM
Wait, before I break down my analysis of the game, i wanna bring this up.

So you think TO wasn't cocky yesterday? Orly? So I guess flapping his hands like an Eagle doesn't count for anything, or entering the endzone like a sprinter doesn't either?

Anyway, its not like the Eagles weren't cocky either. Both teams acted cocky.

Sniper
09-16-2008, 10:13 AM
Wait, before I break down my analysis of the game, i wanna bring this up.

So you think TO wasn't cocky yesterday? Orly? So I guess flapping his hands like an Eagle doesn't count for anything, or entering the endzone like a sprinter doesn't either?

Anyway, its not like the Eagles weren't cocky either. Both teams acted cocky.

Maybe so, but Eagles fans aren't running around saying their players are the second coming of Christ.

MetSox17
09-16-2008, 10:15 AM
Wait, before I break down my analysis of the game, i wanna bring this up.

So you think TO wasn't cocky yesterday? Orly? So I guess flapping his hands like an Eagle doesn't count for anything, or entering the endzone like a sprinter doesn't either?

Anyway, its not like the Eagles weren't cocky either. Both teams acted cocky.

Okay, lets have a team full of Marvin Harrison's.

Sniper
09-16-2008, 10:16 AM
Okay, lets have a team full of Marvin Harrison's.

**** Marvin Harrison and his allergy to contact.

Whoops I gotta watch out now, Marvin might bust a cap on my ass.

bigbluedefense
09-16-2008, 10:24 AM
Now, onto the game.

My beliefs of both teams have not changed since watching the game yesterday. That was one hell of a game, and both sides did their best to both win and lose that game. Amazing contest. I'll break down my thoughts of each team individually.

Dallas
Like I thought, Dallas's offense is electric. They have a top 2 (maybe best) oline in the league, the best TE in the league, and TO. If you want to nitpick, you can say that their run blocking wasn't nearly as good as it shouldve been, and that they desperately need a playmaker outside of TO or Witten to make a play in the passing game. But even then, they put up 41 points on a very very good defense. Their offense is dynamic, and if they do go far this year, they will do it on the account of their offense. Dallas is built on offense.

Their defense however, as I believed before this game, is overrated. That secondary, and that dline is overrated. They are very good against the run, but what has plagued Dallas for the past 3 years remains the same: they can be had through the air. Their front 3 generates little to no pressure, they rely on their OLBs too much when it comes to pressure, and their ILBs cant cover and their secondary is overrated. Hamlin is overrated, whoever is next to him isn't very good, Henry is over the hill, Pacman still has a ways to go before becoming his old form, and Jenkins is still a rookie. Wade doesn't make great zone coverages either. His pressure schemes are great, but his coverage integrity leaves a lot to be desired.

Their special teams are leaps and bounds better than last year. And this needs to be raised. How good is Nick Folk? Not only is he accurate, but he's clutch too.

Philly
Philly's offense was exactly what i expected it to be as well, a top 3 unit in the league. They had their 2 starting WRs out, and still had a dynamic passing game. Jackson is a stud and the real deal. Westbrook is Westbrook, that oline is looking back in form, and McNabb looks sharp. Dallas's offense is still better, but i think we can all agree that outside of TO, Philly clearly has the better WR core.

Defensively, theyre better than Dallas from top to bottom. Better dline, better LB core, better secondary. But Johnson wasn't aggressive enough and thats what did him in. Overall, I think Philly is a more talented team than Dallas, but as we all know talent doesn't always equate to wins.

Why? Because McNabb is still a choker. And that hasn't changed either.


Breaking down both teams by unit:

QB: Dallas
RB: Philly
Oline: Draw (bc Phillys line is better at runblocking, and almost as good in pass protection)
WR: Philly (overall package slightly edges out TO's impact on Dallas)
TE: Dallas
Dline: Draw (i count Ware and Ellis as part of the dline, when Abriamiri comes back Philly might have the edge here)
LBs: Philly
DBs: Philly

MetSox17
09-16-2008, 10:37 AM
Right, a better secondary that got abused play after play by our "inferior" WR corps. And how in the heck is the DL overrated? No one besides people that have actually watched a years full of play knows how good this line is. Ratliff was on McNabb's ass all night, and the Cowboys hardly ever blitzed. Everyone praises their defense for being a lot better, how? They blitzed relentlessly and NEVER got to Romo. We sacked McNabb four times, and had it been anyone else BUT him, there would have been at least 2-3 more.

Sniper
09-16-2008, 10:41 AM
Right, a better secondary that got abused play after play by our "inferior" WR corps. And how in the heck is the DL overrated? No one besides people that have actually watched a years full of play knows how good this line is. Ratliff was on McNabb's ass all night, and the Cowboys hardly ever blitzed. Everyone praises their defense for being a lot better, how? They blitzed relentlessly and NEVER got to Romo. We sacked McNabb four times, and had it been anyone else BUT him, there would have been at least 2-3 more.

Um, when???

Sniper
09-16-2008, 10:44 AM
Let's adjust your breakdown to make sure all the Cowboys fans can stop crying even after they've won...

QB- Cowboys
RB- Cowboys
WR- Cowboys
TE- Cowboys
OL- Cowboys
DL- Cowboys
LB- Cowboys
CB- Cowboys
S- Cowboys
ST- Cowboys
Coaching- Cowboys
Douchebaggery- Cowboys
Felony arrests- Cowboys
Sellout fans- Cowboys

Did I miss any?

our "inferior" WR corps

Um, did you perhaps forget that Philadelphia dropped 37 on you WITHOUT their top two wideouts? Your corps from top to bottom IS weaker. McNabb hit nine different receivers yesterday, WITHOUT Curtis and Brown.

Enjoy the win, but don't act like you're 15 touchdowns better than anyone else when you eeked out a win against a team that was starting Hank Baskett at WR. I'm willing to wager the outcome with a healthy Curtis and Brown would be different.

MetSox17
09-16-2008, 10:49 AM
Let's adjust your breakdown to make sure all the Cowboys fans can stop crying even after they've won...

QB- Cowboys
RB- Cowboys
WR- Cowboys
TE- Cowboys
OL- Cowboys
DL- Cowboys
LB- Cowboys
CB- Cowboys
S- Cowboys
ST- Cowboys
Coaching- Cowboys
Douchebaggery- Cowboys
Felony arrests- Cowboys
Sellout fans- Cowboys

Did I miss any?



Um, did you perhaps forget that Philadelphia dropped 37 on you WITHOUT their top two wideouts? Your corps from top to bottom IS weaker. McNabb hit nine different receivers yesterday, WITHOUT Curtis and Brown.

Enjoy the win, but don't act like you're 15 touchdowns better than anyone else when you eeked out a win against a team that was starting Hank Baskett at WR. I'm willing to wager the outcome with a healthy Curtis and Brown would be different.

"Yeah, let me be ridiculous and facetious to create an argument easy to tear down! Yeah, that's the way to go about a logical argument!"

Your offense dropped 23 on our defense, just so you know. Dallas on the other hand, jammed the ball down your throats drive after drive.

Who the hell was saying or acting that we were that much superior to the Eagles? This "omg we're so underrated" BS is way overplayed by you all, and its getting old.

I just find it ridiculous that the secondary that's supposed to be better, that has three "pro-bowl" caliber CB's and an "ZOMGZ all world FS" got trashed by an accused inferior WR corps. But whatever, you all can keep acting disrespected, even though that great defense allowed 34 points to us.

bigbluedefense
09-16-2008, 10:51 AM
Right, a better secondary that got abused play after play by our "inferior" WR corps. And how in the heck is the DL overrated? No one besides people that have actually watched a years full of play knows how good this line is. Ratliff was on McNabb's ass all night, and the Cowboys hardly ever blitzed. Everyone praises their defense for being a lot better, how? They blitzed relentlessly and NEVER got to Romo. We sacked McNabb four times, and had it been anyone else BUT him, there would have been at least 2-3 more.

Your front 3 is average at getting to the qb. They couldn't get pressure all night. Your OLBs generated all your pressure. And even then the pressure wasn't there all night. Like i said prior to the game, Ratliff is the real deal. Canty is overrated, and Spears is not very good at rushing the passer.

And if you didn't notice, it was Witten that killed them, not your WRs. Other than one bomb pass, TO was held in check. Witten carried that offense. He took on their Safeties and gave it to em. Even then, their safeties>>>>>Dallas's safeties.

And Philly rarely blitzed. When they did, it worked. I can make a strong argument that Jim Johnson screwed up by being passive most of the game.

MetSox17
09-16-2008, 10:56 AM
Your front 3 is average at getting to the qb. They couldn't get pressure all night. Your OLBs generated all your pressure. And even then the pressure wasn't there all night. Like i said prior to the game, Ratliff is the real deal. Canty is overrated, and Spears is not very good at rushing the passer.

And if you didn't notice, it was Witten that killed them, not your WRs. Other than one bomb pass, TO was held in check. Witten carried that offense. He took on their Safeties and gave it to em. Even then, their safeties>>>>>Dallas's safeties.

And Philly rarely blitzed. When they did, it worked. I can make a strong argument that Jim Johnson screwed up by being passive most of the game.

Our front three, you mean the guys that are supposed to clog holes and take up space to have our LB's roam free of blockers? Oh okay, got it.

T.O was held in check? What about the slant pass he ran on Dawkins? Such a smart defense, why the heck was he singled on Owens in the first place? And he blew by Sheldon Brown and Romo connected, had it not been for that hold on Proctor, that would have been another huge play. Witten abused the best safety the NFL has ever seen. And Barber sprinkled in huge runs and catches throughout the game as well.

Sniper
09-16-2008, 10:56 AM
"Yeah, let me be ridiculous and facetious to create an argument easy to tear down! Yeah, that's the way to go about a logical argument!"

You and DMW kicked logic out of this argument a long time ago.

Who the hell was saying or acting that we were that much superior to the Eagles?

Tell me that's not a serious question.

This "omg we're so underrated" BS is way overplayed by you all, and its getting old.

As is the ZOMGZ 1382919101 PRO BOWLERZZZZZZZZZZ! MOST TALENT EVARRRRRRRRR! deal that Cowboys fans have. So much talent, such few playoff wins. The Cowboys are good, but don't say someone's overplaying a card when Dallas fans are giving Tony Romo and Co. jock itch from all the nut riding they're giving him. I've never seen a QB who hasn't won a playoff game get so much love.

I just find it ridiculous that the secondary that's supposed to be better, that has three "pro-bowl" caliber CB's and an "ZOMGZ all world FS" got trashed by an accused inferior WR corps. But whatever, you all can keep acting disrespected, even though that great defense allowed 34 points to us.

Two Pro Bowl caliber corners, one very good but not a Pro Bowl corner, and OMGZ a FS that had a bad game. When you (maybe not you, maybe DMW, I don't know) claim that Miles Austin is a better receiver than Reggie Brown, then yeah, we have problems with your homerism.

Oh, and for all the talk that your WR "corps" did all the damage to the Eagles secondary, I suggest, ya know, looking at stats and watching the game. other than Owens, no Cowboys WR had over 23 yards.

Dallas Receiving
REC YDS AVG TD LG
J. Witten 7 110 15.7 0 42
T. Owens 3 89 29.7 2 72
M. Barber 4 51 12.8 1 25
P. Crayton 2 23 11.5 0 16
M. Bennett 1 20 20.0 0 20
M. Austin 2 12 6.0 0 7
T. Curtis 2 7 3.5 0 4

You had one wideout make an impact on this game, and that's with all wideouts healthy.

Gay Ork Wang
09-16-2008, 10:59 AM
wasnt it Considine's fault that Owens got a 72 yard TD?

Sniper
09-16-2008, 10:59 AM
Witten abused the best safety the NFL has ever seen.

I'll be waiting for a direct quote showing me where ANY Eagles fan EVER said that Brian Dawkins is the best safety the NFL has ever seen.

Sniper
09-16-2008, 11:00 AM
wasnt it Considine's fault that Owens got a 72 yard TD?

No, it was Dawkins. He bit on an in and up. A very well-run route.

MetSox17
09-16-2008, 11:01 AM
You and DMW kicked logic out of this argument a long time ago.

You're confusing your arguments, cause i've never said anything ridiculous or illogical in this thread.



Tell me that's not a serious question.

Yeah, it is actually. Why don't you go and find something that i said where i said the Cowboys were the greatest team ever?

As is the ZOMGZ 1382919101 PRO BOWLERZZZZZZZZZZ! MOST TALENT EVARRRRRRRRR! deal that Cowboys fans have. So much talent, such few playoff wins. The Cowboys are good, but don't say someone's overplaying a card when Dallas fans are giving Tony Romo and Co. jock itch from all the nut riding they're giving him. I've never seen a QB who hasn't won a playoff game get so much love.

It's wishful thinking to even imagine i can have a serious argument with you when it comes to your precious Eagles. I've not once mentioned that we have a ton of pro bowlers and talent. I don't play that game. You on the other hand still cry out for respect, even after your team gets knocked around. Romo is a great quarterback, but i've never been one to overlook his deficiencies. Go argue with guys like EF_45 if you're gonna talk like this

Two Pro Bowl caliber corners, one very good but not a Pro Bowl corner, and OMGZ a FS that had a bad game. When you (maybe not you, maybe DMW, I don't know) claim that Miles Austin is a better receiver than Reggie Brown, then yeah, we have problems with your homerism.

That FS having a bad game is starting to become a bit of a consistency, no?

Oh, and for all the talk that your WR "corps" did all the damage to the Eagles secondary, I suggest, ya know, looking at stats and watching the game. other than Owens, no Cowboys WR had over 23 yards.

Dallas Receiving
REC YDS AVG TD LG
J. Witten 7 110 15.7 0 42
T. Owens 3 89 29.7 2 72
M. Barber 4 51 12.8 1 25
P. Crayton 2 23 11.5 0 16
M. Bennett 1 20 20.0 0 20
M. Austin 2 12 6.0 0 7
T. Curtis 2 7 3.5 0 4

You had one wideout make an impact on this game.
I could say the same to you


Everything in bold.

bigbluedefense
09-16-2008, 11:01 AM
Our front three, you mean the guys that are supposed to clog holes and take up space to have our LB's roam free of blockers? Oh okay, got it.

T.O was held in check? What about the slant pass he ran on Dawkins? Such a smart defense, why the heck was he singled on Owens in the first place? And he blew by Sheldon Brown and Romo connected, had it not been for that hold on Proctor, that would have been another huge play. Witten abused the best safety the NFL has ever seen. And Barber sprinkled in huge runs and catches throughout the game as well.

Actually no. In the Phillips 3-4, your front 3 is supposed to get penetration, not occupy blockers.

look at the stat line

Dallas Receiving
REC YDS AVG TD LG
J. Witten 7 110 15.7 0 42
T. Owens 3 89 29.7 2 72
M. Barber 4 51 12.8 1 25
P. Crayton 2 23 11.5 0 16
M. Bennett 1 20 20.0 0 20
M. Austin 2 12 6.0 0 7
T. Curtis 2 7 3.5 0 4

Dallas's WRs did NOTHING against Philly's secondary, outside of TO. TO had 3 catches for 89 yards, one being 72. So like I said, outside the bomb pass he was held in check most of the game. And like I said, it was WITTEN who carried your offense.

And like I said, the Eagles safeties got abused in this game, thats why they lost. The bomb pass to TO, it was on a safety. Witten owned the safeties. NOT the CBs.

And I don't care what any Cowboys fan says, even with their performance today, Dawkins + Mikell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hamlin + Roy/Watkins. Its not even close. So yes, Philly's DBs are better than Dallas's.


But if it makes you feel better, zomg the Cowboyz won and owned them!111

MetSox17
09-16-2008, 11:02 AM
I'll be waiting for a direct quote showing me where ANY Eagles fan EVER said that Brian Dawkins is the best safety the NFL has ever seen.

LOL, ohhh okay, now the facetious comments only work in YOUR arguments. Sorry man, i'll make sure i act serious all the time while you make crap up in return instead.

Sniper
09-16-2008, 11:03 AM
The rest is pure hyperbole and I'm not gonna sit around and play hyperbole circle jerk but...

You on the other hand still cry out for respect, even after your team gets knocked around

You won by four....at home....against a team without its top two wideouts. Hardly knocking around anyone.

Sniper
09-16-2008, 11:04 AM
LOL, ohhh okay, now the facetious comments only work in YOUR arguments. Sorry man, i'll make sure i act serious all the time while you make crap up in return instead.

You are the most defensive poster ever...Jesus dude, people are allowed to say that Dallas isn't the best at everything. It's okay. Breathe. Relax.

Gay Ork Wang
09-16-2008, 11:05 AM
No Its America's Team! LEAVE DALLAS ALONE!!!!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y120/joeyblue/britney.jpg

MetSox17
09-16-2008, 11:06 AM
The rest is pure hyperbole and I'm not gonna sit around and play hyperbole circle jerk but...



You won by four....at home....against a team without its top two wideouts. Hardly knocking around anyone.

Well so long as i'm not using hyporboles in my arguments, i'd ask you to do the same, to remain from sounding ridiculous.

So are we play the excuses game? Cause if we are, i can start on how we should have won by more.

MetSox17
09-16-2008, 11:07 AM
You are the most defensive poster ever...Jesus dude, people are allowed to say that Dallas isn't the best at everything. It's okay. Breathe. Relax.

I just find it ironic that you called me out on a little pun i threw into my post when you've been doing that all thread long. I'm not defensive at all

Sniper
09-16-2008, 11:10 AM
Well so long as i'm not using hyporboles in my arguments, i'd ask you to do the same, to remain from sounding ridiculous.

So are we play the excuses game? Cause if we are, i can start on how we should have won by more.

And I could say that if McNabb learns to hand the ball off, you don't win at all, but it really doesn't do us much good. So I'm done with this argument. Congrats on the win, don't expect one in Philly, and DAYUUUUUUUUUUUUM after Green Bay, your schedule is cake for 4-5 games.

MetSox17
09-16-2008, 11:14 AM
Congrats on the win, don't expect one in Philly,

Lol, wow, you're off to a fast start, lol.

bigbluedefense
09-16-2008, 11:16 AM
If the Giants do their job, and Dallas does their job, the week 8 meeting between them is going to be a bloodbath.

Sniper
09-16-2008, 11:18 AM
Lol, wow, you're off to a fast start, lol.

Doesn't matter either way. You know why? Because....


PANTHERS PANTEHRZ PANTHERZ JARRETT PANTHERS SMITH PANTHERS OH DELHOMME PANTHERZ PANTHERZ PANTHERZ KEN LUCAS PANTHERZ PEPPERS PANTHERS PANTEHRSSSS STEWART PANTHERS WILLIAMS PANTHERS PANTHERS PANTHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for NFC Champz!!!!!!!!!!!

MetSox17
09-16-2008, 11:19 AM
Doesn't matter either way. You know why? Because....


PANTHERS PANTEHRZ PANTHERZ JARRETT PANTHERS SMITH PANTHERS OH DELHOMME PANTHERZ PANTHERZ PANTHERZ KEN LUCAS PANTHERZ PEPPERS PANTHERS PANTEHRSSSS STEWART PANTHERS WILLIAMS PANTHERS PANTHERS PANTHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for NFC Champz!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, where's our token panthers homer, Blindsite?

Gay Ork Wang
09-16-2008, 11:20 AM
Yeah, where's our token panthers homer, Blindsite?
Masturbating to the 2-0

Modano
09-16-2008, 11:58 AM
And I don't care what any Cowboys fan says, even with their performance today, Dawkins + Mikell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hamlin + Roy/Watkins. Its not even close. So yes, Philly's DBs are better than Dallas's.



BBD why do you think Hamlins is ovverated? Or at least, why do you say that after yesterday game?
Hamlin didn't get beat deep (it was Williams+Jones responsible of the only big play allowed) and their TEs were held in check. So I can understand your opinion on Hamlin but I don't think that yesterday game showed any proof of him being overrated. We were also able to contain Winslow last week. Considering that covering the TE has been one of our biggest weakness recently I think we improved a lot this year (so far, of course).
I think you also have to give Dallas defense some props for that second half performance. We allowed only 7 points against a great offense after halftime, so our coaching staff made good adjustments.
I'm pretty sure that "only" 23 of these points allowed are the defense fault. One TD was a fumble recovered in the endzone and another one was after a turnover and a very bad call which gave the Eagles a 1st&goal on the 1 yard line. You can make the argument that we don't know if Dallas defense would've stopped the Eagles without that PI call but anyway...
So 23 points is not good but not horrible. But, to me, the most important thing is that they were able to allow only 7 points in the second half.

Last but not least: I guess TO was held in check in the second half because they focused on him, allowing Witten to roll. This is the reason why I don't think we can judge Dallas WR corp without considering Witten. He's not a normal TE, he plays on the line, in the slot, split wide etc.
And I also believe, as I stated in the Cowboys forum, that the only on who can stop both Witten and Owens is Romo. If you focus on one, the other one is gonna kill him.
Witten is our #1/2 option and that's why I think we don't need a great second option.

Sniper, I don't wanna argue about which team has the better WR corp but it's incorrect to say that our wideouts were all healthy.
Hurd is our 3rd receiver and he was inactive, Austin - who played in his place - saw very limited action because he just came back from a knee injury and Stanback was also limited because of a shoulder injury.

LonghornsLegend
09-16-2008, 01:51 PM
It's really no reason to get worked up over this game, its week 2, frankly I'm sick of winning early and losing late, and with the way its setting up 3 NFC east teams will probably make the playoffs and Dallas will face one more then likely, thats all I really care about, these games are important for home field advantage but we need to work some kinks out.


I disagree with BBD I think our front 3 did get pressure, but Mcnabb's pocket presence was excellent, if thats your typical pocket passer back there we rack up alot more sacks, I count at least 5 times our D lineman had our hands on him for him to only scramble around and kill us...I really don't understand why we didn't attack more, but then again I don't understand why the Eagles didn't either, that was alot more surprising.


Our defense is a long way from being elite, and for as much talent it should be performing better, playcalling on that side of the ball doesn't excite me, I see units around the league who overall perform at a high level week in and out with less talent...It was nice that the secondary came through at the end of the game though.


It's going to be crazy when we come to Philly, really looking forward to the Philly/Giants matchup this year too.


EDIT: O and my unsung hero I mentioned Jay Ratliff I mentioned, finished with 4 tackles(2 TFL), a sack and the fumble recovery at the end of the game...For an undersized NT he's all over the place.

DMWSackMachine
09-16-2008, 04:21 PM
Dallas


Their defense however, as I believed before this game, is overrated. That secondary, and that dline is overrated. They are very good against the run, but what has plagued Dallas for the past 3 years remains the same: they can be had through the air. Their front 3 generates little to no pressure, they rely on their OLBs too much when it comes to pressure, and their ILBs cant cover and their secondary is overrated. Hamlin is overrated, whoever is next to him isn't very good, Henry is over the hill, Pacman still has a ways to go before becoming his old form, and Jenkins is still a rookie. Wade doesn't make great zone coverages either. His pressure schemes are great, but his coverage integrity leaves a lot to be desired.

Their special teams are leaps and bounds better than last year. And this needs to be raised. How good is Nick Folk? Not only is he accurate, but he's clutch too.

Philly

Defensively, theyre better than Dallas from top to bottom. Better dline, better LB core, better secondary. But Johnson wasn't aggressive enough and thats what did him in. Overall, I think Philly is a more talented team than Dallas, but as we all know talent doesn't always equate to wins.

Why? Because McNabb is still a choker. And that hasn't changed either.


Breaking down both teams by unit:

QB: Dallas
RB: Philly
Oline: Draw (bc Phillys line is better at runblocking, and almost as good in pass protection)
WR: Philly (overall package slightly edges out TO's impact on Dallas)
TE: Dallas
Dline: Draw (i count Ware and Ellis as part of the dline, when Abriamiri comes back Philly might have the edge here)
LBs: Philly
DBs: Philly

I have to say, BBD, I usually have quite a lot of respect for your opinions, and usually your analysis is spot on or close to it. But this post is probably the worst I have ever read of yours--and its not like you haven't been strongly critical of my 'Boys in the past, so its not just the clear anti-Cowboy slant embodied here that I'm responding to.

I am so pumped about the game, I really don't even want to get into a squabbling match about this, so I won't. But I think you will have to eat some crow later in the year for this analysis. I will be referencing it plenty moving forward.