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bspen4
09-14-2008, 01:22 PM
What do you guys think of him? He has the size and arm strength to be a early pick and has been having a very good year. KSU plays on ESPN2 on Wednesday if you haven't seen him. I was just looking to get some other people's opinions on the Junior QB.

Babylon
09-14-2008, 01:46 PM
Freeman probably has the numbers to be a Ben Rothlisberger down the road but i thought he struggled at times against good teams last year. I thought he had trouble getting the ball down the field and i know the coach was frustrated with much of his decision making. Lots of upside but a bit of a work in progress.

jbeans187
09-14-2008, 01:49 PM
He has all the physical tools, but he makes bad decisions and is very inaccurate. I havent seen him this year yet but i ll check him out wednesday. He should be able to carve up that Louisville secondary. It will be more fair to see how he does in Big 12 play

bspen4
09-14-2008, 01:50 PM
His decision making has been much improved this year. The loss of Jordy Nelson has actually helped him because now he can't just lock onto a guy he has to go through the reads and find the open guy.

adschofield
09-14-2008, 02:01 PM
His decision making has been much improved this year. The loss of Jordy Nelson has actually helped him because now he can't just lock onto a guy he has to go through the reads and find the open guy.

Yeah, he dominated Montana State

bspen4
09-14-2008, 02:04 PM
The competition doesn't change the fact he had to make the reads. If anything the lower competition it would have been easy for him to lock onto guy and try and force it in

Race for the Heisman
09-14-2008, 02:30 PM
I have the game on Wednesday pencilled into my calendar. Louisville should be decent defensively under English and while the talent may not be great it will probably be a good game to judge him on, which will be nice as it is one of a limited number of chances I have to really evaluate him.

Cribbs>Hester
09-14-2008, 02:43 PM
Omar Jacobs part III

I. Omar Jacobs
II. Andre Woodson
III. Josh Freeman

bspen4
09-14-2008, 02:50 PM
Omar Jacobs part III

I. Omar Jacobs
II. Andre Woodson
III. Josh Freeman

Yeah I'm sure that will happen. Freeman is already better than Jacobs and as good as Woodson in some parts of the game. Try Jamarcus Russell part II. Or Ben Roethilsberger part II

Cribbs>Hester
09-14-2008, 03:37 PM
Yeah I'm sure that will happen. Freeman is already better than Jacobs and as good as Woodson in some parts of the game. Try Jamarcus Russell part II. Or Ben Roethilsberger part II

and I bet your were one of those pimping Woodson as a Top 5 pick too...

Smokey Joe
09-14-2008, 04:11 PM
Yeah I'm sure that will happen. Freeman is already better than Jacobs and as good as Woodson in some parts of the game. Try Jamarcus Russell part II. Or Ben Roethilsberger part II
Joe Flacco is Ben Roethlisbeger part II.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 04:22 PM
Yeah I'm sure that will happen. Freeman is already better than Jacobs and as good as Woodson in some parts of the game. Try Jamarcus Russell part II. Or Ben Roethilsberger part II
Jesse Palmer part 2. Why does everyone compare players to first round picks. Especially when they have done nothing. Freeman has great size, and good mobility but he looks like a lost puppy when pressure comes.

bspen4
09-14-2008, 07:19 PM
and I bet your were one of those pimping Woodson as a Top 5 pick too...

No but I thought he was a solid Quarterback. I'm thinking you have never seen Freeman play

bspen4
09-14-2008, 07:20 PM
Jesse Palmer part 2. Why does everyone compare players to first round picks. Especially when they have done nothing. Freeman has great size, and good mobility but he looks like a lost puppy when pressure comes.

I'm pretty sure you said on another forum that you liked Freeman's triangle numbers but haven't really seen him so how would you know he looks lost when pressure comes? I would link the post but its on another draft website and I can't do that

regoob2
09-14-2008, 07:54 PM
I'm pretty sure you said on another forum that you liked Freeman's triangle numbers but haven't really seen him so how would you know he looks lost when pressure comes? I would link the post but its on another draft website and I can't do thatI know what your talking about and I do like Freeman I was more talking about people comparing a young unproven QB with pro bowl QBs and #1 overall picks all the time. Freeman is really raw in the very few times I've seen him play. There is no chance he comes out this year but he has great potential but he hasn't even stratched the surface yet.

bspen4
09-14-2008, 08:04 PM
I know what your talking about and I do like Freeman I was more talking about people comparing a young unproven QB with pro bowl QBs and #1 overall picks all the time. Freeman is really raw in the very few times I've seen him play. There is no chance he comes out this year but he has great potential but he hasn't even stratched the surface yet.

You said he is like a lost puppy when pressure comes. And I think there is a chance he comes out this year because I don't think K-State is going to be winning any titles anytime soon

regoob2
09-14-2008, 08:08 PM
You said he is like a lost puppy when pressure comes. And I think there is a chance he comes out this year because I don't think K-State is going to be winning any titles anytime soon
When pressure comes his first choice seems to be to scramble. Like I said I haven't seen a lot of him but he seems to lose track of his receivers when pressure comes. I think he will/should stay to improve his draft stock. He probably wouldn't be a 1st day pick in the 09 draft and he could be a 1st rounder in the 2010 draft.

bspen4
09-14-2008, 08:13 PM
It's not really scrambling..he just moves out of the pocket still looking for a reciever. He is much more of a pass first guy and will benefit from imprve line play this year.

regoob2
09-14-2008, 08:18 PM
He has the raw talent and maybe I overreacted with the lost puppy comment but he has a long way to go before he should be compared to Russell or Big Ben.

bspen4
09-14-2008, 08:21 PM
He definently has the potential to develop into one of them tho

regoob2
09-14-2008, 08:23 PM
He definently has the potential to develop into one of them thoI agree but he hasn't reached it.

bspen4
09-14-2008, 08:24 PM
Not even close

jnew76
09-15-2008, 05:14 AM
Has a ton of potential and a great arm... Has improved this year from what I have seen, and that is not much, but still has a long way to go. Release is a little long, and trusts his arm too much. He has the ability to play in the NFL, but I don't think he develops into a first round pick. He could go 1rst day, but I think it is more likely that he will go 3rd round as a developmental guy. He has a lot of work to do. But he is fully capable of playing in the NFL.

gutman54
09-15-2008, 10:08 PM
He doesn't seem like a good leader. The comments he made openly about not needing Jordy Nelson or any of the seniors they lost really made me look twice at this kid. I can understand if he didn't comment on them, but those comments say something about him as a person, and arm or not, I just can't see him doing much with that sort of attitude. It's all about the respect.

STARHEATHER
09-15-2008, 10:13 PM
i think hes the #1 pick right now. hes really the only prospect out there that has all the nfl traits at qb. maybe not worthy of the top slot but the rule is if theres a potential top qb there you should probably get one if you need a qb. freeman has the biggest arm out there, already plays under center in an nfl type offense. good athlete gets out of the pocket and can throw it on the move. i think if hes there, you got to roll the dice picking a qb high is always a gamble, but the potential dividends of a top end nfl qb are just too much to pass up.

Babylon
09-15-2008, 11:11 PM
Bradford over Stafford and now we have Freeman as a potential #1 pick. There must be no drinking age limits down there in Big 12 country.

STARHEATHER
09-15-2008, 11:32 PM
no, not in gig 12 country. freemans the best thrower. he has the most nfl top end qb traits. bradford stafford etc, theyre not really close. if you took off the jersey and didnt know who they were and who they played for and just let them throw nfl routes, freeman would be the best not even close. on target lasers in an nfl offense. he fits the ball into tight windows with accuracy and can throw all the routes and under duress. the rest cant. so you can believe or not. he throws the football the best and 2nd is not really close

jared
09-16-2008, 10:39 AM
Freeman is off to a good statistical start against some crappy teams. Being a monster Jordyz fan, I saw plenty of Freeman last year. He has the physical tools I suppose. I don't think the coaches have had much faith in his accuracy though since they rarely let him throw a pass farther than 7 yards last year. He really was not impressive but he still has a couple years to put it together. "On target lasers"? hahahahahah.

Babylon
09-16-2008, 10:46 AM
no, not in gig 12 country. freemans the best thrower. he has the most nfl top end qb traits. bradford stafford etc, theyre not really close. if you took off the jersey and didnt know who they were and who they played for and just let them throw nfl routes, freeman would be the best not even close. on target lasers in an nfl offense. he fits the ball into tight windows with accuracy and can throw all the routes and under duress. the rest cant. so you can believe or not. he throws the football the best and 2nd is not really close

I can see a debate with Freeman/Daniels/Bradford there in Big 12 country but they arent in Stafford's class as far as making NFL type throws.

BBIB
09-16-2008, 02:29 PM
I can see a debate with Freeman/Daniels/Bradford there in Big 12 country but they arent in Stafford's class as far as making NFL type throws.

And Stafford may not be in Freeman's class in terms of making reads/good decisions with the football.

#1 overall pick right now? Of course not. But he certainly has the potential.


As far as the guy with the Omar Jacobs comparison, what a joke. What exactly do Omar Jacobs, Andre Woodson, and Josh Freeman have in common anyway? They are all black?

Babylon
09-16-2008, 02:52 PM
I can say i'm really surprised there is a Stafford vs Freeman/Bradford debate. I'm always open to new ideas i guess but i dont get it.

STARHEATHER
09-16-2008, 07:37 PM
freemans a far better thrower than stafford. its not really even close. he has the biggest arm since jamarcus russel. maybe not quite as big as russel, but pretty close. im not basing anything on this years games so far for freeman, although hes been great in both. he makes all the throws with zipand on target. hes a very good athlete loose hips good mobility and already knows how to make plays on his 3rd and 4th reads and when flushed in the pass game. hes hard to tackle and shows good escapability. knows when to get ridof it and doesnt take lots of sacks. i guess the only way to "get it" is to forget what team they play for and just focus on how they play qb and how that translates to the nfl game. the biggest mistake made is believing that the team that contends for college hardware automatically has the best nfl players on it. espn even stole my post from 4 months ago in another universe when i referred to him as a young daunte culpepper. now it ends up on espn.com. no ones talking about him because theyll contend for any titles or he'll win any awards. theres only one reason why anyoes talking about him. hes the best prospect out there at the qb position. theres really no other reason to talk about him. theyre not top 25 or really contending for anything. so why bother? simpe really. what happens on sunday is more important than what happens on sunday. and he has all the traits of a sunday qb

STARHEATHER
09-16-2008, 07:38 PM
what happens on sunday is more important than what happens on saturday

Turtlepower
09-16-2008, 07:41 PM
what happens on sunday is more important than what happens on saturday

So does that mean we should complete ignore a college QBs performance and only look at measurables? That has worked amazing for NFL teams.

adschofield
09-16-2008, 08:29 PM
Joshzzz Freemanzzz is teh bestest QB in teh league...

Ladies and Gentleman, we have the new Jordy Nelson...Number #1? That's pathetic...

adschofield
09-16-2008, 08:30 PM
Stafford has as strong an arm as Freeman and has better decision making, intangibles, etc. at this point.

STARHEATHER
09-16-2008, 10:56 PM
really. get a tape of the sc and see how many times the announcers caught stafford going to the wrong guy. so to claim that decision making is better and accuracy is better considering freemans throwing at 75% clip this year and a 60%+ clip last year to say more accurate is also false. i dont try to measure intangibles. knowing a mans mind is difficult from afar. its hard enough to find guys who can do it physically, let alone try to see into their soul

bspen4
09-17-2008, 09:34 AM
Stafford has as strong an arm as Freeman and has better decision making, intangibles, etc. at this point.

And how many games have you seen of both?

BBIB
09-17-2008, 09:59 AM
And how many games have you seen of both?

Judging by his KU signature he probably is not exactly the most objective guy regarding Josh Freeman.

His first test is tonight against Louisville in what shold be a much improved defense with new DC Ron English.

At least a helluva lot more competition than what KSU has faced in their first two games.

Also a game in the national spotlight on the road which can be an added challenge.

I hate Im going to probably have to miss it

adschofield
09-17-2008, 03:47 PM
And how many games have you seen of both?

I've watched Freeman play since in HS...About 4-5 games a year... About 1-2 his senior year in HS

adschofield
09-17-2008, 03:48 PM
Judging by his KU signature he probably is not exactly the most objective guy regarding Josh Freeman.

His first test is tonight against Louisville in what shold be a much improved defense with new DC Ron English.

At least a helluva lot more competition than what KSU has faced in their first two games.

Also a game in the national spotlight on the road which can be an added challenge.

I hate Im going to probably have to miss it

Oh, but the flock of KSU homers pimping Freeman are the objective ones in the thread? Pathetic arguement.

bspen4
09-17-2008, 07:17 PM
I haven't said anything that's not realistic. Freeman absolutely has the potential to be a top 10 pick. But so do alot of other QB's in college

MarioPalmer
09-17-2008, 07:35 PM
I haven't said anything that's not realistic. Freeman absolutely has the potential to be a top 10 pick. But so do alot of other QB's in college

I do have to admit that Josh Freeman has some serious potential, he is the almost exact clone of JaMarcus Russell. Big armed athlete with phenominal size who has the potential to be a franchise QB, with that said, his accuracy needs to get sharper and his decision making needs to become more consistent. I do love the prospect of him though. He needs to prove to people he just isn't a big guy with a big arm this year. He needs to take the next step and become a star in the making, I think he is just one level below that right now, but he definitly has the stuff to make it.

Right now my list is this:
*juniors would declare

1.Matt Stafford
2a.Mark Sanchez
2b.Sam Bradford
4.Josh Freeman
5.Curtis Painter
6.John Brandensteiter (spelling? Fresno St. QB)

bored of education
09-17-2008, 07:38 PM
He has looked like a number one pick tonight -_____-

MarioPalmer
09-17-2008, 07:42 PM
He has looked like a number one pick tonight -_____-

Well this isn't a world class defense, but it certainly has looked good for him so far. I would still like him to make the easy throws tho more consistently.

BBIB
09-17-2008, 07:43 PM
I think he's more unique.

He looks thinner and more mobile than Russell and doesn't quite have the arm strength of Russell although he does have a gun.

Looks like he runs a lot more pro style offense than they ran at LSU for Russell.


Kid def has top 5 potential. This season will make or break his stock. Depends how he looks against all those tough Big 12 teams he plays like OU, Texas Tech, Missouri and Kansas.

bspen4
09-17-2008, 07:48 PM
He honestly has a rocket..he mauy not be able to throw it as far as Stafford but he gets some velocity on the ball

MarioPalmer
09-17-2008, 07:49 PM
I think he's more unique.

He looks thinner and more mobile than Russell and doesn't quite have the arm strength of Russell although he does have a gun.

Looks like he runs a lot more pro style offense than they ran at LSU for Russell.


Kid def has top 5 potential. This season will make or break his stock. Depends how he looks against all those tough Big 12 teams he plays like OU, Texas Tech, Missouri and Kansas.

I was just saying "clone" in the sense of his appearence. 6'6 240lbs with a big arm and solid mobility just reminds me alot of him. I definitly think he could be a top 10 and even top 5 pick. If he and Stafford come out you will be seeing a million Stafford vs. Freeman threads...lol

bspen4
09-17-2008, 07:55 PM
From a reporter at the game. All these NFL execs are at the game

John Dorsey, Green Bay Packers, Director of College Scouting

Jerry Reese, New York Giants, Senior Vice President and General Manager

Greg Gabriel, Chicago Bears, Director of College Scouting

Jake Hallum, Cleveland Browns, Senior Scout

Phil Savage, Cleveland Browns, Senior Vice President and General Manager

Bill Pilian, Indianapolis Colts, Team President

Bill Baker, Miami Dolphins, Team Scout

Gene Smith, Jacksonville Jaguars, Executive Director of College and Pro Personnel

Jonathan Robinson, New England Patriots, Assistant Director of College Scouting

Race for the Heisman
09-17-2008, 08:14 PM
Watching KSU-Louisville, I would say Freeman's hype is that which most closely parallels Andre Woodson's as of last year. He's got a boatload of issues to sort out before he can be considered a great prospect.

MarioPalmer
09-17-2008, 08:16 PM
From a reporter at the game. All these NFL execs are at the game

John Dorsey, Green Bay Packers, Director of College Scouting

Jerry Reese, New York Giants, Senior Vice President and General Manager

Greg Gabriel, Chicago Bears, Director of College Scouting

Jake Hallum, Cleveland Browns, Senior Scout

Phil Savage, Cleveland Browns, Senior Vice President and General Manager

Bill Pilian, Indianapolis Colts, Team President

Bill Baker, Miami Dolphins, Team Scout

Gene Smith, Jacksonville Jaguars, Executive Director of College and Pro Personnel

Jonathan Robinson, New England Patriots, Assistant Director of College Scouting



Very good info, thats very good man.

MarioPalmer
09-17-2008, 08:20 PM
Watching KSU-Louisville, I would say Freeman's hype is that which most closely parallels Andre Woodson's as of last year. He's got a boatload of issues to sort out before he can be considered a great prospect.

I wouldn't disagree with that, but there are no hitches or wierd mechanics that would take Freeman down, so his throwing motion isn't going to be a hinderence, plus Freeman is a junior so his potential is actually greater than Woodson's. Woodson would have been a top pick had he not had that weird hitch and slow wind up throwing motion, he also couldn't digest a NFL play book and play calls during the Senior Bowl with Mike Martz. I'm gonna tell you one thing, Martz saved some GM's job and some owner some serious money with exploited Woodson glaring weakness's.

doingthisinsteadofwork
09-17-2008, 08:24 PM
And another INT!

bspen4
09-17-2008, 08:24 PM
Well that was a bad bad pass

BBIB
09-17-2008, 08:25 PM
This kid has some great physical tools but he's absolutely got to work on his decision making

Andre Woodson? Terrible comparison. Woodson's stock plummeted because of a hitch in his delivery that people were obsessed with.

This guy is also again a Junior.

MarioPalmer
09-17-2008, 08:29 PM
This kid has some great physical tools but he's absolutely got to work on his decision making

Andre Woodson? Terrible comparison. Woodson's stock plummeted because of a hitch in his delivery that people were obsessed with.

This guy is also again a Junior.


Yeah, his decision making seem to be the major concern. The talent is there, but his decision making needs to be in that elite level for him to be top 10 and def top 5. The reason why Matt Ryand Carson Palmer were picked so high was because their decision making was greatly improved from junior to senior year so the scouts, GMs and coaches saw the progression. Freeman needs to follow suit. He needs to greatly improve in that one aspect of the game and he will have no problem with his stock going up, up and up.

Babylon
09-17-2008, 08:30 PM
I caught about a half dozen KSU games last year and he did well with the underneath stuff to the WRs but had some real problems with getting the ball down the field. He also struggled along with his teammates against good competition. Lets see how he does when he plays Kansas, Oklahoma and Missouri. He has a real opportunity to take advantage of a rather light QB crop so it's all there for him to take advantage of.

Cribbs>Hester
09-17-2008, 08:39 PM
WTF are two Browns scouts doing at this game? Not to mention it is our top scout and the freaking GM???? There is not a single prospect in this game that important or potentially great. Ian Campbell is average at best and he might be the only guy in the game that could help our defense.

Josh Freeman sure as hell looks like a #1 overall pick doesn't he :confused:

bspen4
09-17-2008, 08:54 PM
One game doesnt make a prospect. Matt Stafford looks like a number 1 pick every game doesn't he? I still think he has number 1 pick potential. And only 1 INT was his fault. The first one was off the WR's hands.

Race for the Heisman
09-17-2008, 09:01 PM
This kid has some great physical tools but he's absolutely got to work on his decision making

Andre Woodson? Terrible comparison. Woodson's stock plummeted because of a hitch in his delivery that people were obsessed with.

This guy is also again a Junior.

I never said he compared to Woodson, only his hype.

As for that comparison, for Woodson his Achilles' heel was his delivery, although his pocket presence wasn't very good either.

For Freeman, his decision-making appears quite poor, likewise for his intermediate accuracy (three downfield throws; all thrown behind, two of which were caught). The good thing for Freeman is that these are fixable problems. If I am making personnel decisions, I want him to stay in school. If he comes out this year his bust factor will be gargantuan.

scottyboy
09-17-2008, 09:41 PM
Jerry Reese is every where.

and nowhere

at the same time

and freeman is good

jbeans187
09-17-2008, 09:49 PM
If Freeman cant do anything against Louisville he is going to get dominated in Big 12 play. I d take Hunter Cantwell

bspen4
09-17-2008, 09:51 PM
It's not like his WR's or game plan are helping him much.

Race for the Heisman
09-17-2008, 09:57 PM
It's not like his WR's or game plan are helping him much.

I'm not sure I totally agree with that. On the first TD his receiver made an adjustment and slowed up to catch the pass as it was thrown slightly behind, and Mastrud just did a lot of work for Freeman on that last TD.

P-L
09-17-2008, 10:00 PM
If Freeman cant do anything against Louisville he is going to get dominated in Big 12 play. I d take Hunter Cantwell
He didn't do that well in Big XII play last year, except against Colorado and Oklahoma State. In his other 7 games against Big XII opponents he threw for 8 TD's and 6 INT's.

Cribbs>Hester
09-17-2008, 10:07 PM
The supposed best center in the nation just completely wiffed on a noname scrubb #55 to give up a sack.

Yeah wtf is Savage at this game watching a bunch of future shelf stockers and bag boys???

jbeans187
09-17-2008, 10:09 PM
His lack of accuracy and decision making arent helping either. I am convinced Freeman could be a high pick because he could be a workout warrior. But I dont see him panning out into anything. Let's ask Mr. Freeman who the best QB in the Big 12 is.....

"I'd say I'm the best," Freeman said Tuesday on the second day of Big 12 Media Days. "That's my opinion because of what I bring to the table. The other guys are good quarterbacks, but I have supreme confidence in my ability as a quarterback and a playmaker."

bspen4
09-17-2008, 10:11 PM
I'm not sure I totally agree with that. On the first TD his receiver made an adjustment and slowed up to catch the pass as it was thrown slightly behind, and Mastrud just did a lot of work for Freeman on that last TD.

They also have like 5 drops. I wrote that before Mastrud's TD

jbeans187
09-17-2008, 10:13 PM
From a reporter at the game. All these NFL execs are at the game

John Dorsey, Green Bay Packers, Director of College Scouting

Jerry Reese, New York Giants, Senior Vice President and General Manager

Greg Gabriel, Chicago Bears, Director of College Scouting

Jake Hallum, Cleveland Browns, Senior Scout

Phil Savage, Cleveland Browns, Senior Vice President and General Manager

Bill Pilian, Indianapolis Colts, Team President

Bill Baker, Miami Dolphins, Team Scout

Gene Smith, Jacksonville Jaguars, Executive Director of College and Pro Personnel

Jonathan Robinson, New England Patriots, Assistant Director of College Scouting

They are all in town for the Ryder Cup ;)

Race for the Heisman
09-17-2008, 10:14 PM
There's another instance of a receiver bailing out his quarterback, although I will concede that there have been a few drops. Maybe call it a wash?

bored of education
09-17-2008, 10:19 PM
I wasted my time on that game, I thought this Freeman guy was supposed ot be good?

bspen4
09-17-2008, 10:29 PM
Wait what did ESPN just say? Top 5 QB? Scouts there to see him? Wow who knew that

bored of education
09-17-2008, 10:33 PM
Wait what did ESPN just say? Top 5 QB? Scouts there to see him? Wow who knew that

top 5 non senior qb

holt_bruce81
09-17-2008, 10:36 PM
I wasted my time on that game, I thought this Freeman guy was supposed ot be good?

I've never understood all the hype Freeman has got in. He has all the tools sure but he just isn't that good, definitley not top 10 worthy.

Race for the Heisman
09-17-2008, 10:39 PM
This is obviously premature after only one game, but these are my thoughts based solely off this game.

Josh Freeman () – 4.65-4.75 – Freeman has prototypical size at 6’6”, 250 pounds. The JaMarcus Russell comparisons are understandable because they move in the same manner and have like frames but Russell obviously has superior arm strength. That is not to say Freeman has no arm, as he does have a gun (probably a notch below Stafford or Snead but better than second tier guys like Tebow or Boeckman. Will hang in the pocket and take a hit in order to make a play. Despite being a huge guy, Freeman will slide, which shows the caution you want from a franchise quarterback. He has big strides, which allow him to cover ground with deceptive speed. Looks to have decent touch (will take velocity off shorter throws to help his receivers) on shorter throws. His intermediate accuracy is not especially good (two of two throws of about 20-25 yards thrown behind → tendency to throw behind? → poor anticipation?). I would say his 40 might be reminiscent of Russell as well, but I do think he is faster, although I’m not sure he is as good of a runner. After two more intermediate throws (one on the run, both back across his body) it seems sure that his accuracy at that range is not very good. His decisions (throwing back across his body [one throw totally short of his receiver, the other batted down by a corner/linebacker] for instance) are not a strong point of his game. Unless his bowl game (assuming KSU makes one) demonstrates drastic improvement, teams should be very wary of his bust factor. Freeman has the strength to shrug off tacklers, not unlike Ben Roethlisberger. Either he or his offensive coordinator made a good read on a blitz and beat it with a short slant (bears further investigating). It is difficult to get a read on his pocket presence because he seems to operate just behind the pocket, rather than in it. His second interception epitomizes his lack of decision-making skills and perhaps his faith in his physical abilities. His hands (presumably massive) help aid in ball security (easy to pump fake and greater ball control in general). He will initiate contact when running when his team needs yards. His is not really a slipstream scrambler nor a retreat scrambler, but rather a combination of the two (he can do one or the other, or combine the two on a single play). This probably doesn’t need to be said, but he is very much a pass-first quarterback. Should have no problem taking snaps from under center. Missed two more intermediate passes. Short accuracy appears fine. Wasn’t able to hack it in crunch time.

Value: Early fourth seems appropriate (think Isaiah Stanback, Michael Bush, Darnell Bing, Justing King, Tyvon Branch, etc; guys who had great potential perhaps but some big issues to sort through or had other disconcerting knocks).

adschofield
09-17-2008, 11:01 PM
I'm telling you, he's the new Jordy...Homers are going to make outrageous exaggerations about him ala Jordyzzz..

bored of education
09-17-2008, 11:03 PM
I'm telling you, he's the new Jordy...Homers are going to make outrageous exaggerations about him ala Jordyzzz..


Jordyz is a god though. Freeman is not.

adschofield
09-17-2008, 11:04 PM
I'm sorry but to put Freeman ahead of Stafford is lunacy...Freeman's decision making is absolutely horrendous

OregonDucks
09-17-2008, 11:39 PM
Freeman is overrated, imo. wow terrible

georgiafan
09-18-2008, 07:06 AM
You could see the potential of Freeman, but he isn't close to being ready to come out. I think people just looked at his size and the fact that Scott wrote about him a few weeks and started getting on his bandwagon. This just shows you why you can't look at stats to judge a QB. His first TD was a WR that was wide open and just about all QB's make that throw. The other TD's was WR getting a lot of YAC.

Ozzy
09-18-2008, 08:50 AM
Really disappointed in him last night. Something just seems off about him, I remember seeing him as a freshman and thinking he had such great potential, and he does. However I really wish he would throw the ball with more velocity. He has ok touch on some of his passes but then other passes he is just ridiculously off the mark. Everyone loves his size, and he is pretty good on his feet at that size.

Honestly though, I wish he was more of an intense football player. Got in the face of his teammates and opponents more and was a leader and stood up for his team and himself. He just seems so passive in a way, and on the sidelines he just kind of sits around, he is not into the game. That is what I am not liking about him.


If he does fail in the NFL, and I hope he does not, but if he does it is because of his lack of leadership and passion for the game. Who wants to follow that kind of a QB?

BBIB
09-18-2008, 10:17 AM
The talent is there but unless that game was an aberration he certainly needs to stay another year.

I'm sorry but to put Freeman ahead of Stafford is lunacy...Freeman's decision making is absolutely horrendous

Stafford has had his share of games with negative TD/TO ratios

Edit: Wait I didn't even realize the guy came back and threw 2 more TDs.

Of course no excuse for those 2 picks he threw.

BBIB
09-18-2008, 10:20 AM
If he does fail in the NFL, and I hope he does not, but if he does it is because of his lack of leadership and passion for the game. Who wants to follow that kind of a QB?

I think that is something that is very overrated. You can lead by example. Eli "Aww shux" Manning won a Super Bowl. Don't even pretend for a second that he was a get in your face type of guy who showed the type of passion for the game as his brother.


If Josh Freeman fails in the NFL it will because he doesn't improve his decision making with the football.

If Freeman cant do anything against Louisville he is going to get dominated in Big 12 play. I d take Hunter Cantwell

Cantwell is not that impressive either honestly. KSU has an inferior defense to Louisville and were giving nothing but easy all man defensive looks. People obsess over Woodson's delivery. Well Cantwell doesn't exactly have a Marino esque delivery and he constantly stares down his receivers.

IOW, neither one of those QBs is exactly worth of a high pick right now

georgiafan
09-18-2008, 10:28 AM
He did come back and throw 2 TD's, but the WR's really made the plays on both of them instead of Freeman. One was a short pass and went pretty much untouched for a 50 yard TD. The other was a missed tackle where that little WR broke a tackle and went about 60 yards. He still made the throws, but neither was what I would call a NFL throw.

Ozzy
09-18-2008, 10:49 AM
I think that is something that is very overrated. You can lead by example. Eli "Aww shux" Manning won a Super Bowl. Don't even pretend for a second that he was a get in your face type of guy who showed the type of passion for the game as his brother.


If Josh Freeman fails in the NFL it will because he doesn't improve his decision making with the football.I disagree with that, I think Eli is a leader, sure not as vocal as Peyton but he still can get in people's faces and speak up. Plus his game presence is wonderful and he seems like he is in charge. Freeman does not seem as in charge on the field, as of right now. But yes his decision making is key obviously, but he might make bad decisions because he is not decisive and direct and aggressive.

Matthew Jones
09-18-2008, 11:39 AM
He has all the physical tools, but he makes bad decisions and is very inaccurate. I havent seen him this year yet but i ll check him out wednesday. He should be able to carve up that Louisville secondary. It will be more fair to see how he does in Big 12 play

You spelled Wily Mo wrong.

jbeans187
09-18-2008, 02:38 PM
What? Where?

adschofield
09-18-2008, 03:32 PM
You spelled Wily Mo wrong.

Different Willy Mo...

MarioPalmer
09-18-2008, 07:23 PM
I think that is something that is very overrated. You can lead by example. Eli "Aww shux" Manning won a Super Bowl. Don't even pretend for a second that he was a get in your face type of guy who showed the type of passion for the game as his brother.


If Josh Freeman fails in the NFL it will because he doesn't improve his decision making with the football.



Cantwell is not that impressive either honestly. KSU has an inferior defense to Louisville and were giving nothing but easy all man defensive looks. People obsess over Woodson's delivery. Well Cantwell doesn't exactly have a Marino esque delivery and he constantly stares down his receivers.

IOW, neither one of those QBs is exactly worth of a high pick right now


I agree, thats why I think Carson Palmer, even with the bad start, is so under rated. He will get in the faces of his team mates regardless who they are. Ever see him lay down the law to Chad "Ocho Cinco" Johnson? He doesn't care if it's OLT Levi Brown missing a block because of lazyness or he really got beat on the play Carson will let him know where and when he F-ed up. Same with his receivers, whether its Chad or TJ or if its rookie Jerome Simpson, he will let them know whats what in the game. And he is a leader and I think thats why he is so respected by not just his team mates and coaches, but by other teams and other coaches.

I did see that in Josh Freeman last night, and he does need to step up his intensity and maybe get as involved in the sideline antics as Mark Sanchez does at USC and maybe his team mates will be fired up to complete plays they wouldn't normaly complete. Thats one of the wholepoints of being the general of the field. Not to just go out there and direct the offense, but to keep moral up and to keep your guys working hard and never giving up.

moTIGS
09-19-2008, 01:23 AM
He has all the physical tools, but he makes bad decisions and is very inaccurate. I havent seen him this year yet but i ll check him out wednesday. He should be able to carve up that Louisville secondary. It will be more fair to see how he does in Big 12 play

I've got nothing to say about Freeman that hasn't already been said in this thread, I'm sure (although I stopped reading after this post).

I just wanted to point out the awesomeness of your sig file. Whoever made that (IT WAS ME!!!) was very creative, I think.

BuddyCHRIST
09-19-2008, 01:39 AM
I'm going to completely admit I only saw about 2 drives in the 4th quarter which are evidently the only drives where Freeman played well, but he looked brimming with potential in those drives to me. That lightning quick release is tantalizing to say the least.

STARHEATHER
09-22-2008, 07:51 PM
very pedestrian performance vs louisville. very stafford-esque. his first seven passes or so were perfect lasers including a beauty on the first or second play of the game. then louisville found out they couldnt run the ball or play defense. i wonder if theyre coaches realize when youre down big and its 3rd and 15 you should probably in be in the gun. all things considered freeman threw a lot of good balls but some that were not so good. he was under heavy duress most of the game. its going to be difficult for their team to win many games which may hurt his chances of coming out. he will however be throwing many passes this year. hes going to need to be better if theyre going to win games and hes going to come out. hes very hard to bring down and made several nice throws when hit and under duress. he showed all his nfl traits. in order to con sider coming out, hes going to need to play better. hes not going to get much help from the team or coaching staff.

illmatic74
09-22-2008, 10:52 PM
I agree, thats why I think Carson Palmer, even with the bad start, is so under rated. He will get in the faces of his team mates regardless who they are. Ever see him lay down the law to Chad "Ocho Cinco" Johnson? He doesn't care if it's OLT Levi Brown missing a block because of lazyness or he really got beat on the play Carson will let him know where and when he F-ed up. Same with his receivers, whether its Chad or TJ or if its rookie Jerome Simpson, he will let them know whats what in the game. And he is a leader and I think thats why he is so respected by not just his team mates and coaches, but by other teams and other coaches.

I did see that in Josh Freeman last night, and he does need to step up his intensity and maybe get as involved in the sideline antics as Mark Sanchez does at USC and maybe his team mates will be fired up to complete plays they wouldn't normaly complete. Thats one of the wholepoints of being the general of the field. Not to just go out there and direct the offense, but to keep moral up and to keep your guys working hard and never giving up.
One thing I hate is when us as fans try to rate things that go on behind the scenes that we would have no idea about. Unless we are at every practice every meeting and every game we won't be able to judge the leadership of a player.

STARHEATHER
09-23-2008, 07:11 PM
amen. its always interesting when people attempt to judge character of a person in all likelihood theyve never met nor even know anyone theyve met

BBIB
09-28-2008, 07:27 PM
Some people call Josh Freeman a Jason Campbell. With the way he's playing these days is that really an insult?

Buckrock101
10-03-2008, 02:03 AM
He's easily my #1 QB right now. He has all the physical tools, and knows how to run an offense. If you're looking for a prototypical NFL QB, you have him here in Freeman. He's been productive in his college career despite a pretty poor supporting cast, and despite playing against very good opposition. He is mobile for such a big guy as well, and can get away from the rush well.

If you ask me who I want to lead my team out of Stafford and Freeman... I go with Freeman every time.

Buckrock101
10-03-2008, 02:06 AM
I'm telling you, he's the new Jordy...Homers are going to make outrageous exaggerations about him ala Jordyzzz..

Outrageous exaggerations like... "He's going to be the 3rd receiver drafted" and "He's going to go above both DeSean and Kelly"? What were they thinking...

eazyb81
10-26-2008, 07:00 PM
Why is there not more talk about this guy? For a board that loves tools and projection so much, you'd think Freeman talk would be all over this place.

Did anyone see how he looked against OU on Saturday? I saw he had 3 INT along with 3 TD, but he also passed for almost 500 yards, which is nuts against OU's defense. Did he put up a ton of garbage yards at the end of the game?

I really like this kid. I hope he comes out and tears up the combine.

SuperKevin
10-26-2008, 07:32 PM
I'll admit he has pro tools but some people are making him out to be a lot better than he is.

Babylon
10-26-2008, 07:36 PM
Why is there not more talk about this guy? For a board that loves tools and projection so much, you'd think Freeman talk would be all over this place.

Did anyone see how he looked against OU on Saturday? I saw he had 3 INT along with 3 TD, but he also passed for almost 500 yards, which is nuts against OU's defense. Did he put up a ton of garbage yards at the end of the game?

I really like this kid. I hope he comes out and tears up the combine.


Heather talks about him all the time. I think with Freeman you dont know what to expect, at times he'll make a nice throw down the field then he'll try to force something and get picked off or fumble the ball. I'd say a pretty good athlete, good arm, average accuracy average decision making. If the whole world declares he would probably be picked about 5th or 6th along with Colt McCoy, thus the level of interest in him.

eazyb81
10-26-2008, 07:42 PM
Heather talks about him all the time. I think with Freeman you dont know what to expect, at times he'll make a nice throw down the field then he'll try to force something and get picked off or fumble the ball. I'd say a pretty good athlete, good arm, average accuracy average decision making. If the whole world declares he would probably be picked about 5th or 6th along with Colt McCoy, thus the level of interest in him.

I think you're underrating him quite a bit. If you compare his size, arm, and athleticism to the other potential QBs available in this draft, he is right there if not ahead of them. Plus, look at the talent around him, of course he's not going to stand out like Stafford, Sanchez, and Bradford. I just don't know how anyone can look at him and not think Jamarcus Russell.

SuperKevin
10-26-2008, 07:43 PM
I think you're underrating him quite a bit. If you compare his size, arm, and athleticism to the other potential QBs available in this draft, he is right there if not ahead of them. Plus, look at the talent around him, of course he's not going to stand out like Stafford, Sanchez, and Bradford. I just don't know how anyone can look at him and not think Jamarcus Russell.

Which isn't really a good thing right now

Babylon
10-26-2008, 07:51 PM
I think you're underrating him quite a bit. If you compare his size, arm, and athleticism to the other potential QBs available in this draft, he is right there if not ahead of them. Plus, look at the talent around him, of course he's not going to stand out like Stafford, Sanchez, and Bradford. I just don't know how anyone can look at him and not think Jamarcus Russell.


He's so erratic and when they play a good team the warts become even more evident. He's a pretty good athlete but like Russell the footspeed is not what one might think. If you put him up against Stafford he is second best in every category you can think of. As for the others he may do some things as good as some and others may do things better than him. I think Russell had a much better arm, his accuracy at times wasnt that good either but he had the cannon and that's what got him drafted so high.

ElectricEye
10-26-2008, 07:54 PM
He doesn't quite have Russell arm strength. He's nowhere near as accurate or consistent as Jamarcus either, which to say the very least, is concerning. Better athlete though. He needs to stay another year, for sure.

BBIB
10-27-2008, 10:27 AM
Why is there not more talk about this guy? For a board that loves tools and projection so much, you'd think Freeman talk would be all over this place.

Did anyone see how he looked against OU on Saturday? I saw he had 3 INT along with 3 TD, but he also passed for almost 500 yards, which is nuts against OU's defense. Did he put up a ton of garbage yards at the end of the game?

I really like this kid. I hope he comes out and tears up the combine.


No it was not "garbage time" production. He led his team to draw even at 28-28.

The difference in the two offenses was that OU has a vastly superior Oline and running game.

Freeman had none whatsoever.


One of those picks was on a tipped ball and the other was in the endzone on an atrocious coaching decision to do a QB roll out on 4th and goal from inside the one yard line.

BBIB
10-27-2008, 10:31 AM
Which isn't really a good thing right now

Yeah well what QB that came out of the draft since 2007 is so much more awesome than JaMarcus Russell?

Russell has a 2/1 TD/INT ratio right now with 6 TDs to only 3 picks.

Babylon
10-27-2008, 11:04 AM
Yeah well what QB that came out of the draft since 2007 is so much more awesome than JaMarcus Russell?

Russell has a 2/1 TD/INT ratio right now with 6 TDs to only 3 picks.

Matt Ryan and probably a draw with Joe Flacco.

BBIB
10-27-2008, 11:29 AM
Matt Ryan and probably a draw with Joe Flacco.

Matt Ryan just has one more TD with 2 more picks.

Flacco? Are you serious? He has over twice as many picks as TDs right now.

Babylon
10-27-2008, 12:02 PM
Matt Ryan just has one more TD with 2 more picks.

Flacco? Are you serious? He has over twice as many picks as TDs right now.

Are you trying to tell me that Russell has been good this year?, i think i would classify it as getting it together with a piss poor team, certainly not there yet. I'm not saying he cant be real good, he has a great arm. He does need to lose some weight in my opinion and a premier receiver wouldnt hurt but for a top pick i think the jury is still out.

Race for the Heisman
10-27-2008, 12:34 PM
I think that as a prospect, in terms of his physical ability, Freeman is a lights out-cannot miss prospect. He's quick, he's fast, he has a quick release, big, mobile, elusive, great arm, great size; you name it, he has it. He needs the extra year to improve his accuracy and the other mental parts of the game, but if he can really do that, the sky is the limit. Like Calvin Johnson cannot-miss if he gets it all together.

BBIB
10-27-2008, 12:35 PM
Are you trying to tell me that Russell has been good this year?, i think i would classify it as getting it together with a piss poor team, certainly not there yet. I'm not saying he cant be real good, he has a great arm. He does need to lose some weight in my opinion and a premier receiver wouldnt hurt but for a top pick i think the jury is still out.


That's the point!

The jury is still out on ANY QB still drafted since that draft.

People have called Matt Ryan the messiah of the Falcons but in reality the Jury is still out on him as well.

To suggest someone like Ryan or Russell has made it or is a bust is a joke.

BBIB
10-27-2008, 12:36 PM
I think that as a prospect, in terms of his physical ability, Freeman is a lights out-cannot miss prospect. He's quick, he's fast, he has a quick release, big, mobile, elusive, great arm, great size; you name it, he has it. He needs the extra year to improve his accuracy and the other mental parts of the game, but if he can really do that, the sky is the limit. Like Calvin Johnson cannot-miss if he gets it all together.

No such thing as a can't miss QB prospect. Too many factors beyond what we can observe. And if there was such a thing Freeman has yet to develop into it.

He needs vast improvement over another year before you could genuinely make such a statement.

SuperKevin
10-27-2008, 01:34 PM
Yeah well what QB that came out of the draft since 2007 is so much more awesome than JaMarcus Russell?

Russell has a 2/1 TD/INT ratio right now with 6 TDs to only 3 picks.

Trent Edwards will probably be leading his team to the playoffs. JaMarcus Russell will lead his team to the top 10 of next years draft

Race for the Heisman
10-27-2008, 01:48 PM
No such thing as a can't miss QB prospect. Too many factors beyond what we can observe. And if there was such a thing Freeman has yet to develop into it.

He needs vast improvement over another year before you could genuinely make such a statement.

True, I suppose you could say that. I'm just saying that if he gets it together on a consistent basis (like right now his intermediate accuracy is up and down like a yo-yo on crack), I believe the number one overall hype would be warranted. I mean, I've seen him do things like make a hot read on a blitz where I'm not sure if he saw that or the sideline told him to anticipate it, but if was him and he can do that more often combined with improving his accuracy, I would have very few reservations about him as a prospect.

BBIB
10-27-2008, 01:54 PM
Trent Edwards will probably be leading his team to the playoffs. JaMarcus Russell will lead his team to the top 10 of next years draft

Trent Edwards has accounted for only 178 more yards and 2 fewer TDs than JaMarcus Russell. Not to mention Edwards has one more turnover.

Goes to show you how too much credit the QB position gets from wins and losses.

illmatic74
10-28-2008, 10:11 AM
Trent Edwards has accounted for only 178 more yards and 2 fewer TDs than JaMarcus Russell. Not to mention Edwards has one more turnover.

Goes to show you how too much credit the QB position gets from wins and losses. Even though I still think Russel could be a star with talent around him it is worth mentioning that Edwards comp pct is 67.9% while Russel's is 50.3%

sweetd20
10-28-2008, 05:16 PM
It's tough to get a true comparison for Freeman as he just doesn't look like the same player for a complete game. Physically Russell is the closest but as far as a QB right now I see a mixture of Culpepper and George when they were in college. At this point it would be best for him to stay one more year and try to refine himself. If he improves his decision making and his accuracy on the intermediate passes he's a top 10 even top 5 maybe next year. Right now he might get a team to take a late 1st round chance on him.

Saints-Tigers
10-28-2008, 06:29 PM
Trent Edwards has accounted for only 178 more yards and 2 fewer TDs than JaMarcus Russell. Not to mention Edwards has one more turnover.

Goes to show you how too much credit the QB position gets from wins and losses.

Jamarcus Russell is in a terrible offense that lacks a receiver, and less than stellar pass protection.

Given what he's working with, I've been pretty impressed so far.

Menardo75
10-28-2008, 07:01 PM
I think if Jamarcus gets some help around him then he has all the talent in the world to be successful. Considering the circumstances he has played pretty well this season. As for Freeman, yeah all the tools in the world to be a top flight QB. One more year of college and who knows might emerge as a top prospect.

Shane P. Hallam
10-28-2008, 07:26 PM
The Legend, the man, and the greatest poster in NFLDC history has said that Freeman will be good at the next level. I believe him.

renegade
10-28-2008, 07:33 PM
The Legend, the man, and the greatest poster in NFLDC history has said that Freeman will be good at the next level. I believe him.

Starheather?? :confused: (I'm guessing you were using extreme sarcasm)

bored of education
10-28-2008, 07:36 PM
The Legend, the man, and the greatest poster in NFLDC history has said that Freeman will be good at the next level. I believe him.
thank you JBond :)

brat316
10-28-2008, 07:40 PM
Whos better Josh Freeman or Josh Johnson?

bored of education
10-28-2008, 07:43 PM
Whos better Josh Freeman or Josh Johnson?

Freeman by a mile. I could get into it but won't. Mythbusta will take care of my light work. Get at him mythyyyyyyyyyy

renegade
10-28-2008, 07:45 PM
Freeman by a mile. I could get into it but won't. Mythbusta will take care of my light work. Get at him mythyyyyyyyyyy

He's Starheather now...

.

bored of education
10-28-2008, 08:07 PM
woopsys!!!!!!!!

Shane P. Hallam
10-28-2008, 08:10 PM
Starheather?? :confused: (I'm guessing you were using extreme sarcasm)

Um, no, who is that?

My statement had no sarcasm.

bored of education
10-28-2008, 08:11 PM
Um, no, who is that?

My statement had no sarcasm.

/me mounts JBond93 again

renegade
10-28-2008, 08:11 PM
Um, no, who is that?

My statement had no sarcasm.

someone changed mythbusta's nik to starheather which is his name on FF.

Shane P. Hallam
10-28-2008, 08:14 PM
someone changed mythbusta's nik to starheather which is his name on FF.

Gotcha. Yeah, I'm not a fan of that guy. I'm talking about the true genius of NFLDC. Just ask around who the best poster ever on here is, and you shall have your answer!

bored of education
10-28-2008, 08:15 PM
Gotcha. Yeah, I'm not a fan of that guy. I'm talking about the true genius of NFLDC. Just ask around who the best poster ever on here is, and you shall have your answer!


awww shucks Jbond stop it you are making me blush

Shane P. Hallam
10-28-2008, 08:18 PM
awww shucks Jbond stop it you are making me blush

I'm not talking about you Jeff Garcia.

BBIB
10-29-2008, 04:41 PM
Whos better Josh Freeman or Josh Johnson?

LOL we may never know how good Josh Johnson could be because doesn't look like he is going to get a shot at the NFL.

He can thank a bad combine and probably Tarvaris Jackson for that.

Also doesn't help that the Bucs love rolling with half a dozen QBs.

Babylon
10-29-2008, 06:05 PM
Whos better Josh Freeman or Josh Johnson?

Freeman....

thenewfeature06
10-29-2008, 06:07 PM
freeman simply bc the skill level he had to play agasint

bored of education
11-08-2008, 07:02 PM
Josh Freeman will be the 1st overall pick

Babylon
11-08-2008, 07:34 PM
Josh Freeman will be the 1st overall pick

Of the 3rd round.

Race for the Heisman
11-08-2008, 08:24 PM
Of the 3rd round.

And proceed to have a meteoric Trent Edwards-like rise to become the best quarterback on his team, then the conference, and finally the NFL as a whole.

Seriously though, if the Colts picked him up to replace Peyton in a few years the sky might be the limit.

Shane P. Hallam
11-08-2008, 08:33 PM
Yes, sitting a QB for five years, always the best choice.

Bengalsrocket
11-08-2008, 08:42 PM
Yes, sitting a QB for five years, always the best choice.

Seems to be working with Aaron Rodgers :)

I'm kidding though, I agree with you. I highly doubt Indianapolis drafts any QB they plan on being the future of their franchise (intentionally anyways).

illmatic74
11-08-2008, 09:15 PM
The 5 year plan also worked for David Garrard.