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View Full Version : Carson Palmer, what can be done?


MarioPalmer
09-14-2008, 08:23 PM
I wanted to ask non-Bengals fans what they thought about Carson Palmer. Please don't spam or flame or say he's sucks cause your a Steeler fan cause that doesn't help the situation.

So my question is, what do you guys think of Carson Palmer? Just 2 years ago, going into his 4th season (2006) he was considered 1 of the big 3. Brady, Manning and Palmer were all considered the top 3 elite QB talents in the NFL. And even with that horrible injury he still had a Pro-BOwl 2006 season and had a very solid 2007 season considering that the Bengal franchise had completely fallen apart. Yes, he did throw for 20 INTs last year, but he also threw 26 TDs and 4000+ yards along with a 60%+ completion percentage.

So, is his failings just a couple of bad games, or is this situation in Cincy finally getting to him? I have a hard time believing a QB with that much talent and proven production will just fall off the face of the earth and become mediocre over night. I know people were talking about Donovan McNabb in that light during the 2007 season and end of 2006 season, but we all say him in week 1 of 2008 against the Rams. And we are now sure that McNabb has atleast 2 or 3 highly productive years left in that body, of coarse if there is no major injury. Can the same thing be said about Carson Pamler?

Please, respectable, knowledgable and non bias NFL fans please.

SenorGato
09-14-2008, 08:26 PM
He's had 2 bad games.

Thats really about it.

skinzzfan25
09-14-2008, 08:28 PM
He needs to get out of Cinci somehow.

Basileus777
09-14-2008, 08:30 PM
His mechanics have really broken down. He's also struggles outside of the pocket. He can't make throws on the run at all. This is a real problem with the current state of the Bengals oline.

MarioPalmer
09-14-2008, 08:35 PM
He needs to get out of Cinci somehow.

That won't happen. As much as I think that some ignorant fans would want that, he won't leave. He isn't a quitter and the Brown family knows they finally have a real QB. They might not pay alot for outside help, but when they have a QB like Palmer they aren't getting rid of him.

I just have to wonder if its just 2 bad games, you know? Something that I am not liking is this whole Chad "Ocho Cinco" Johnson crap. He and TJ are playing with no heart. I mean none at all. It seems that TJ is Chads little puppy dog and oes whatever Chad wants. If Chad is unhappy then TJ finds a reason for himself to be unhappy. Its ridiculous. I wished they had traded him or both during or before the draft. I don't care is Carson would have had 2 unknown targets to throw too, better then having these two bums running around out there just going through the motions.

I personally think its Carson's frustration with his team mates. In 2005 when they were one of the best squads in the NFL, it was because they were a family, they lived and died together. But ever since then, when people actually started paying attention to them, you got guys like Johnson and TJ who are more worried about their on screen appearence, the coaches worried about what the media thinks of them, etc. I think its really pissed Carson off and maybe messed with his confidence. I just hope I'm looking too much into it, I root for this team every week and when we drafted Carson Palmer I really thought that this was it, we finally got our Peyton, our Brady, our guy that we can go to war with every Sunday no matter what, and we would always have him to rely on. I hipe that energy hasn't ended.

d34ng3l021
09-14-2008, 08:46 PM
I dont know whatsup with him now (if there is anything), but he definitely needs to get out of Cincy. Cincy has looked pathetic, and they need huge coach changes. The talent on the roster is good, but there just seems to be no sense of team chemistry. With talent like they have, I do not see why they shouldnt be doing better.

Cribbs>Hester
09-14-2008, 08:50 PM
Don't worry hell right the ship against Cleveland.

He'll go 55-61 for 1,023 yards and 9 touchdowns and 0 picks against us in two games this year

OzTitan
09-14-2008, 08:51 PM
He played against possibly 2 top 5 D's in the NFL in Baltimore and Tennessee. Today's game was in the same wind conditions that Big Ben and Anderson are experiencing right now, so right from the outset the Bengals were at a disadvantage since passing was made harder.

Brees started poorly last season and we know he is still a top QB, and it is only 2 weeks, he can still get back into it this season with Cinci IMO. But hey, the way the situation with Vince Young is unfolding, I'd be cool with Palmer wanting out of Cinci and coming to the Titans :)

MarioPalmer
09-14-2008, 08:52 PM
I agree, I think they need to bring in a complete hard ass, maybe Marty Scheotenhiemer (spelling??). THey need someone who will come in there and say this is my way and here is the highway.....PICK ONE! Marvin Lewis has seemed to be the guy who didn't want to be hated, he always wanted the players to like him and he always had that personality of "yeah, whatever you want." Its just stupid. I say bring in a drill sargent and lay down the law with this team and dump anyone who wants out.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
09-14-2008, 08:56 PM
He's been screwing up my fantasy team =(.

MarioPalmer
09-14-2008, 09:01 PM
He played against possibly 2 top 5 D's in the NFL in Baltimore and Tennessee. Today's game was in the same wind conditions that Big Ben and Anderson are experiencing right now, so right from the outset the Bengals were at a disadvantage since passing was made harder.

Brees started poorly last season and we know he is still a top QB, and it is only 2 weeks, he can still get back into it this season with Cinci IMO. But hey, the way the situation with Vince Young is unfolding, I'd be cool with Palmer wanting out of Cinci and coming to the Titans :)


haha, I hope not, no offense, but I'm also a Texan fn and trust me the Texans would give their left legs for a QB that talented...lol

BUt thanks for the encouragment, I'm sure he'll be fine, I just hate, I mean I really hate it when I see players with a ton of potential and a player who really works hard and he production and success doesn't amount to much. I'm sure you are feeling the same way with Vince Young. I know when he was drafted by you guys you were all thinking..."Hell YEAH!!!" And now your seeing that maybe it wasn't all that great, there is always hope, but we'll see if it ever amounts to anything.

Carson is in a pretty difficult spot right now. He is with a team that has the offensive talent to be there and some young defensive players with a lot of potential, but the ownership, coaching staff and front office people are the ones who I believe that are letting this franchise and its fans down. This is a year were I think its either Marvin Lewis or Mike Brown (getting a real GM), but something has to give.

critesy
09-14-2008, 09:06 PM
He needs a new off. Co ordinator so bad, they are so predictable and the plays are so original.

aNYtitan
09-14-2008, 09:57 PM
I think they need to give him this year. You really can't just give him his walking papers, because you would be dismissing (talent wise) a top 5 QB in the league. He no longer is in the big 3 as I think Brees and Romo have overtaken him. Like OzTitan posted, defenses don't get any tougher then the ones Carson has already faced. He has the talent to throw to, I didn't really understand getting rid of Rudi Johnson, except for the fact that it was a cap casualty. His line really doesn't have any standout, well I mean I like Levi Jones, but still. One more year, after wards then decide. If its another medicore year, it might be time to rip it apart and rebuild starting with a new head coach and the probable dismissal of Chad Ochocinco Johnson

Breaker
09-14-2008, 10:30 PM
Come to Houston. You will be reborn.

Saints-Tigers
09-14-2008, 11:28 PM
I always thought there was a Big 2(peyton and Tom) a number 3 in Drew Brees, and a close 4 in Palmer, able to make some throws that Brees can't, gets less passes knocked down, but a bit behind in terms of accuracy, pocket presence, and decision making.

He's had a rough start, but he's an elite QB, give him some time, he'll come out of his funk I think.

PalmerToCJ
09-14-2008, 11:33 PM
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

You've got to be kidding me... Two games. The first one he spent the entire game on his back. The second one had wind gusts up to 50+ mph.

I'm not saying he's still top 5 or top 3 like he was but come on, how about a larger time frame. Bob Bratkowski is terrible. As critesy saw on our board, none of us are happy with him, the play calling is bad. The WR's are essentially in their preseason games. We just played two of the best defenses in the AFC. If he keeps up this rough start until week 6 or 7, then you can start this thread but until then, lets be real.

BlindSite
09-14-2008, 11:45 PM
The Bengals need to give him a better running game and offensive line.

PalmerToCJ
09-14-2008, 11:49 PM
His mechanics have really broken down. He's also struggles outside of the pocket. He can't make throws on the run at all. This is a real problem with the current state of the Bengals oline.

Besides the lack of run game and throwing excessively last year, his mechanics were a part of the problem. That and he's not a mobile QB, he's never had to be. This post is correct and always has been, he's not perfect.

The Bengals need to give him a better running game and offensive line.

Exactly. When they know we're going to pass and we can't block them, a non-mobile QB is in trouble. He had absolutely zero chance at Baltimore to make good throws. This week the wind killed any chance of moderate to deep passes, which are his bread and butter.

SuperKevin
09-14-2008, 11:55 PM
He played against possibly 2 top 5 D's in the NFL in Baltimore and Tennessee

Are you serious about this?

Gatz
09-15-2008, 12:32 AM
Anybody would rot in Cincy.

yo123
09-15-2008, 12:38 AM
Who do you want for him? You can have your pick, other than AD.

MarioPalmer
09-15-2008, 12:53 AM
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

You've got to be kidding me... Two games. The first one he spent the entire game on his back. The second one had wind gusts up to 50+ mph.

I'm not saying he's still top 5 or top 3 like he was but come on, how about a larger time frame. Bob Bratkowski is terrible. As critesy saw on our board, none of us are happy with him, the play calling is bad. The WR's are essentially in their preseason games. We just played two of the best defenses in the AFC. If he keeps up this rough start until week 6 or 7, then you can start this thread but until then, lets be real.


No, I agree, I'm not saying we should move on, or get mad at him or anything like that. I want him to stay and retire a Bengal fan. I still think he can once again retake his top 3 QB title, but he needs something new to spark that offense like it was in 2004, 2005 and 2006.

There was the swagger that the Bengal offense had those years and then last year something happened. I think it has something do with the no running game and the loss of Eric Steinbach. The loss of Steinbach was unacceptable in my eyes. I know the Willie Anderson extension was basically the reason why they didn't keep him, but to say that didn't know they were going to cut Anderson or at the least they didn't know that Anderson was on his last tank of gas is just plain nieve.

Mike Brown also needs to grow a pair and bring in a real GM. Actually go out and recruit a Scott Pioli (spelling?). Or someone of that caliber of GM.

The draft picks need to pan out. The Bengals draft picks from 2004-2008 have been hit and miss with alot more misses than hits. The first round picks have been solid, but the later rounds that usually fill out a teams depth have been down right aweful. 2005's draft has been the offseason that has completely handicapped this team.

*David Pollack*- who looked to be the next Bengal leader along with being a physical pressence that had excellent football smarts and an outstanding motor was hit with one of the worst cases of bad luck ever. First he comes into the league late because Mike Brown didn't want to pay him and then he gets his neck broken on a fluke play.

*Odell Thurman*-was another major part of the Bengal resurgence and was on his way to becoming a Kirk Morrison, DeMeco Ryans, Mike Peterson, Will Witherspoon, Al Wilslon and Keith Brooking type leader with the same kind of production. But of coarse he can't keep his nose clean and he basically kicks himself out of the league and misses 2 full years.

*Chris Henry*-was on his way to becoming one of the best slot receivers and red zone targets in the NFL. An easy 1rst round talent who was a bit of a character concern coming into the 2005 NFL Draft, but the Bengals were willing to overlook it if he could produce and play up to his potential which he did and some in his rookie year. He was quickly becoming one of Palmers favorite receivers and was playing like a 10 year vet right out of the gate. Yet again, he plays himself right out of the league with bine head moves off the field.

These 3 guys, in their rookie year, became the building blocks that some teams take 2 seperate drafts to find. Yet the Bengals hit the jackpot with 2005 and these 3. But as luck had it, they all failed to live up to their potnetial.

2004 was another draft that has hindered the Bengals' progression into a contender. We did find starters SS Madieu Williams, WLB Landon Johnson, DE Robert Geathers and OT Stacey Andrews, but we passed and let guys by with the picks of RB Chris Perry and CB Keiwan Ratliff. Passing on guys like LB Karlos Dansby, DT Dornell Docket, LM Demorrio Williams, SS Sean Jones, OG Chris Snee, C Jake Grove, DT Igor Olshanski, C Nick Hardwick and TE Chris Cooley. That draft was unacceptable once again. We got good depth and a few starters out of the 2004 draft but nothing that was impactful like the guys I mentioned.

2006 was basically CB jonathan Joseph and DT Demeto Peko, the rest are not even mentionable. NO kidding. Thses two guys are starters with Joseph becoming a real shut down corner. Reminds me a lot of CB Q.Jammer of San Diego. But the real help was supposed to come from 2006 Supplemental Draft pick MLB Ahmad Brooks. Who, just a year earlier, was considered the #1 MLB in the country and was on his way to becoming one of the most coveted defenders in the nation. We draft him in the 3rd round of the supplemental draft and he looks like a steal. His rookie season was very good considering he didn't have any type of off-season with the Begals and making it into camp by the 1rst preseason game. He looked very promising until last year. Brooks has a awesome impactful season opener against the Ravens with a 5 tackle, 1 sack and 3 assist night but in the 2nd game of the year tears his homstring and goes out for the year and lands on IR by week 8. But, the optimism is okay and we still have faith in him because of how much he improved from year 1 to year 2. BUt then he does the unthinkable and hits a woman and becomes lazy and lathargic in his offseason training and rehab for his injury. Great, another wasted talent and a player who falls victim to useless and non motivated coaching staff that keep their foot on his neck and keep it there.

This kind of thing has been going on here for awhile now, obviously scince the end of the 2005 season when the reports came out that Chad Johnson took a swing at Marvin Lewis in the locker room during halftime of the playoff game against the Steelers. From that day forward this team has been in shambles and it looks like it has taken Pamler down with it. I just hope that this staff and front office can make the nessacary adjustments for Palmer and the rest of the crew to progress and live up to their potential.

PalmerToCJ
09-15-2008, 01:01 AM
Who do you want for him? You can have your pick, other than AD.

We're plenty happy to have him here ;)

The thing that makes this post the most ridiculous is the fact that it comes after this game. As I said, the wind gusts topped 50 mph SEVERAL times today, it was by far the worst winds have been here since I've been alive and it was sustained all game. Carson threw 2 INT's, both in the 4th quarter trailing with said conditions. The one drive we managed some sort of running game it was 71 yards (I believe) and a TD.

Gatz
09-15-2008, 01:10 AM
Um. Mike Brown needs to go. He has a way bigger responsibility for bringing in character issue guys. It's not coincidence that these guys don't live up to their potential, some people never change, and their track record is why some teams didn't draft these guys. Lewis needs to go because he has no authority over his players, and Brown didn't help that when he brought back Henry.

Before every single bengals fan start going OMGZ HENRY WAS BROUGHT BACK CUZ THE CHARGES WERE DROPPED, so what? this guy hangs around the wrong people, you cut him, Lewis said he's gonna start being tough, bengals try to start clean, then you bring him back. what kind of message does that send? And then of course the 85 ****** makes this team seem even more like a joke.

Basically, this team needs a new start, a new image, they need to get rid of Johnson and Henry and people alike, get rid of Lewis, bring in a new coach that's tough, they need to stop taking players with a troublesome history.

Palmer is not the problem. But who knows, he might need/want to start over on a new team.

Menardo75
09-15-2008, 01:19 AM
He really does not have much help around him anymore. I think he will be ok. The Bengals definitly need to clean house though.

PalmerToCJ
09-15-2008, 01:20 AM
Everyone and their brother agrees that the Bengals need a GM. Our absolute #1 problem is ownership, period. Marvin took a 2-14 team to 8-8 with HIS free agents and HIS draft picks. 2005, Mike Brown struck again in leading to the back to back picks of Thurman/Henry, same can be said for Ahmad Brooks. Brown has a history of taking guys with shady backgrounds and things have never changed. Until he lets a coach or GM who know football run this show, we're going to underachieve... No matter who the coach is.

The biggest blow to the Bengals offense was losing Rich Braham at Center. Ghiaciuc has been below average and killed our run blocking ever since. He is small, below average in terms of setting up the line and easily the weakest link on our offense. Everything has dropped since he started playing, this includes while Steinbach was here. I still support the move in letting Steinbach walk.

PalmerToCJ
09-15-2008, 01:23 AM
Um. Mike Brown needs to go. He has a way bigger responsibility for bringing in character issue guys. It's not coincidence that these guys don't live up to their potential, some people never change, and their track record is why some teams didn't draft these guys. Lewis needs to go because he has no authority over his players, and Brown didn't help that when he brought back Henry.

Before every single bengals fan start going OMGZ HENRY WAS BROUGHT BACK CUZ THE CHARGES WERE DROPPED, so what? this guy hangs around the wrong people, you cut him, Lewis said he's gonna start being tough, bengals try to start clean, then you bring him back. what kind of message does that send? And then of course the 85 ****** makes this team seem even more like a joke.

Basically, this team needs a new start, a new image, they need to get rid of Johnson and Henry and people alike, get rid of Lewis, bring in a new coach that's tough, they need to stop taking players with a troublesome history.

Palmer is not the problem. But who knows, he might need/want to start over on a new team.

We all agree that Brown needs to go. I think it's unfortunate that Marvin has been placed in the position he's in, I think he's an adequate coach in a bad spot.

My biggest issue is I just don't see firing Marvin leading to any kind of real change. That coach comes in, gets free reign then Brown sticks his hand in the pot and we're back where we started.

We need a new owner for any real hope, it's no coincidence teams like Pittsburgh constantly compete, it all starts with ownership.

Gatz
09-15-2008, 01:31 AM
Yes, firing Marvin when Brown still has the strings won't do any good, but Lewis has some responsibility in this too. It's not exactly smart to be a buddy buddy coach with a locker room full of players with a bad track record. He should have put his foot down a long time ago.

I mean, I don't know why he doesn't just resign, and I mean this as in I don't know why he would want to stick around. He has no control in the locker room, is probably not respected by his players, and will have to deal with the players Mike Brown brings in, has to deal with 85, etc.

Thing is, if Bengals start over completely, I don't see how Palmer can remain there, so it'll be rebuilding and starting from the first block again.

PalmerToCJ
09-15-2008, 01:40 AM
Yes, firing Marvin when Brown still has the strings won't do any good, but Lewis has some responsibility in this too. It's not exactly smart to be a buddy buddy coach with a locker room full of players with a bad track record. He should have put his foot down a long time ago.

I mean, I don't know why he doesn't just resign, and I mean this as in I don't know why he would want to stick around. He has no control in the locker room, is probably not respected by his players, and will have to deal with the players Mike Brown brings in, has to deal with 85, etc.

Thing is, if Bengals start over completely, I don't see how Palmer can remain there, so it'll be rebuilding and starting from the first block again.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Marvin resigned at the end of the year. The media/fans are really clamping down on the team hard at this point and he doesn't have much say in changing things. I do agree he needed to do a better job controlling the team.

I don't think bringing in a new coach is a bad thing, I just feel Marvin isn't a bad coach... He's just in a bad situation. His first year was great, there was so many stories of change, even small stuff. The staff in Georgetown (where our training camp is held) said the cafeteria was normally an absolute disaster when the team got done but Lewis made sure the players took care of things. Surely Marvin is growing frustrated with the way things are going, I still feel Brown isn't really thinking about firing Marvin if he wants to stay here.

I can't see letting Carson go (given his contract and abilities), I will say the tools are there to swap this team to more of a classic AFCN team with our young guys in the defense. It's pretty evident TJ Houshmandzadeh is going to walk after this year, I wish Chad would be gone. I honestly don't have any idea what the franchise will look like 2 years from now.

DMWSackMachine
09-15-2008, 01:48 AM
This is an organizational issue. Palmer hasn't looked quite the same as a QB since his injury, but he's still been good, with periods of excellence. The Bengals have just created an atmosphere that is conducive to losing and making mistakes. Marvin Lewis might be a decent coach, but he had it under control for awhile and it went south. He should be held accountable and fired.

Obviously, the FO is the biggest problem, and they should be rooted out as well, but we all know that isn't going to happen. The only hope this team has is if they can get a young coach in that has his priorities in order, and will bring toughness, discipline and a do-whatever-it-takes attitude to the team. If that were to happen, there is enough talent in place to get this thing turned around quite fast. Parcells would be perfect for that team. They would be challenging for the AFC within two years.

OzTitan
09-15-2008, 01:52 AM
Are you serious about this?
Why wouldn't I be? The Titans were the 5th best D yardage wise last season, better if you ask footballoutsiders, and the Ravens were 6th overall. So far the Titans look better still this year and the Ravens, although in only one game, likewise.

Gatz
09-15-2008, 01:52 AM
I have a solution (unrealistic)- somehow get Tom Coughlin to come over and kick some asses. He would make these players **** their pants. =D

Edit- Maybe Bill Cowher ?!!!

PalmerToCJ
09-15-2008, 01:55 AM
Agreed 1000000% on Parcells, he's absolutely without a doubt the type of coach this team needs. Ownership aside, it's not a bad gig given the players that are currently here. Strictly given what's happened between Marvin and the team, yes, he should be fired. However, the fact that it's a result of management is what bothers me. That and Brown has a VERY long leash.

On a side note, after this year Carson had acknowledged that his mechanics had begun to slack off. With his ACL rehab in '05 there was no work on the fundamentals given there was bigger fish to fry. Last year was just abandoning the run and passing it to two players.

EDIT: Agreed Gatz. What's funny is in '03 I wanted Coughlin instead of Marvin, I was happy with the decision until recently of course lol. I thought about Cowher although it would never happen I would definitely welcome it.

San Diego Chicken
09-15-2008, 02:27 AM
I think being surrounded by immature teammates and weak leadership is wearing on him mentally. But talking strictly football, I think Hoge or Jaworski, one of those guys, pointed out how skittish he's been and how poor his mechanics are post-knee injury with video evidence to back that up. Which is truly sad because he's probably the most talented pure passer in the NFL.

bigbluedefense
09-15-2008, 08:34 AM
Carson Palmer has been a severely overrated quarterback for a long time now. He can't live off of one great year anymore. Its not all his fault, but you can't deny his shortcomings anymore. He's not nearly as good as advertised.

keylime_5
09-15-2008, 08:57 AM
Palmer is good, the Bengals suck. The Bengals sucking is a big reason why Palmer is not doing good lately. Tony Romo, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning are all in the environment where they have a great line and weapons.

bigbluedefense
09-15-2008, 09:01 AM
Palmer is good, the Bengals suck. The Bengals sucking is a big reason why Palmer is not doing good lately. Tony Romo, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning are all in the environment where they have a great line and weapons.

Palmer has weapons too. When Henry comes back, he has 3 solid passing options. He has a solid run game. His oline is not the best in the world, thats where the main issue lies in terms of personnel, but its not horrible either.

People are giving Palmer a pass on things that other qbs get killed for. He's just not making great decisions with the ball. Thats all on Palmer. He leaves his WRs left out to dry a lot too. But he always gets a pass for it bc he's Carson Palmer.

Carson has been living off reputation for quite some time now.

wicket
09-15-2008, 09:24 AM
the guy is for real, everything about him shows that, he just hit a rough patch. I honestly think he might wanna go elsewhere though. the cincy management is not really the harddrive for succes. He'd be a perfect fit for miami in about two years, still young enough, a good team by then prolly, at least the right kinda management, the right sort of drafting, a place where he could go far imo

PACKmanN
09-15-2008, 09:46 AM
I would like to know if he still hurt from that injury he got in the playoffs and how much did it affect his game.

PalmerToCJ
09-15-2008, 10:08 AM
I would like to know if he still hurt from that injury he got in the playoffs and how much did it affect his game.

It has definitely screwed with his mechanics. I think what's hurt him most is our lack of run game and bad OC.

Some of you act like it would be easy for us/him to cut ties, he has a massive contract and no chance they let a QB of his age/skill walk.

DeathbyStat
09-15-2008, 11:22 AM
He's been screwing up my fantasy team =(.

Yeah me as well

CC.SD
09-15-2008, 12:16 PM
This is overblown, he played great defenses+amazing wind conditions. That said, I wouldn't blame Carson if he's lost his heart stuck in that awful, awful situation.

MarioPalmer
09-15-2008, 08:14 PM
Palmer has weapons too. When Henry comes back, he has 3 solid passing options. He has a solid run game. His oline is not the best in the world, thats where the main issue lies in terms of personnel, but its not horrible either.

People are giving Palmer a pass on things that other qbs get killed for. He's just not making great decisions with the ball. Thats all on Palmer. He leaves his WRs left out to dry a lot too. But he always gets a pass for it bc he's Carson Palmer.

Carson has been living off reputation for quite some time now.

Trust me, there is no running game here. This is a pas every down team, not run then throw, its a surprise if the offense runs. The defense always knows whats coming.

And who ever said Parcells should be the coach...HOLY **** would that be a great idea. Carson Palmer is a QB parcells drools over. Big guy, huge arm, great leadership, incrediably talented...wow, now thats a great comment.

And to the person who said he is over rated, then you don't watch him. 1 good year? What are you watching? 2004, 2005,2006 and 2007 he has been amongst the league leaders in all major stats. UNtil last year his QB rating was always above 94.0 and his TD's have been 25+ even on horrid teams. Yeah his INT's were high last year, but the Bengals were asking him to throw and win the game literally by himself. So please, if you want to talk about over rated QBs lets talk about Eli Manning. Just because you win a SB doesn't mean all is good. Just look at Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Kurt Warner and should I go on? So he has just as much to prove if not more then Carson. Eli has never been on his own, never. Next time you watch a Bengal game watch how alone Carson is out there. Chad hates life, TJ is Chads puppy dog, so whatever Chad says or does TJ isn't far behind doing the samething, the online is no where near as good, Levi Jones hasnt been awesome since his extension signing. Stacey Andrews better be the answer with all this hype they are giving him. And Chris Perry was a horrid pick and hasn't been close to living up to his potential. Its just heart breaking to watch such a great player fall victim to such non sense like this. I absolutely hate when a player can't reach his potnential because of circumstances out of his control. And thats whats happening here.

Iamcanadian
09-15-2008, 09:08 PM
I think Lewis was exposed last season as a very mediocre HC. It's clear the players have quite on him and he's only hanging around till his contract is up. Cincy's owner is simply too cheap to pay 2 HC's at the same time.
I see absolutely no heart in the players for Cincy and that is the HC's responsibility no matter how bad the organization is run.
Few teams are ever granted a Palmer as their QB, a true franchise player. His talent is simply wasted in Cincy and I think it is a shame. There is no way this team should be a contender for the #1 overall pick, that belongs to teams who don't have franchise QB's or anything resembling one.
There are 3 teams which truly lack the financial resources to compete in the NFL, Buffalo, Arizona and Cincy. They simply lack the money to compete on an equal footing with the rest of the league. Buffalo has improved their financial position by selling some of their games to Toronto and Arizona has a brand new stadium which has resulted in an increase in revenue. So far Cincy is still out in the cold and when you add that to bad management, their window is very narrow for success. Palmer is simply paying the price.

giantsfan
09-16-2008, 12:19 AM
There are still good piece in cincy, like there Corners a lot, rivers should galvanize that LB corps., and Peko and Geathers is a good start up front, if the Oline can get a guy like Mack to lead the way and re-establish chemistry the running game will be much more effective which will take pressure off Carson and give him time to throw.

If I were Mike Brown I'd ask Marvin to step into a different role with the team or fire him out right, find a coach who'll come in with a plan and get the players to execute his plan or leave. Personal preference would be Steve Spagnulo if he's not back with the giants as he's a guy who's players will run through a brick wall for him, I'd also give Lane Kiffin a shot with the offense as I like him as a co-ordinator.

Then let TJ walk, he's a great #2 option but this team needs a serious re-tooling and keeping expensive secondary receivers isn't a good idea for teams looking to make major changes. 85's a prima donna, but if the rest of the lockerroom is buying into the new coach then 85 won't be a problem, as he'll always be a focal point of any offense. I think if Atlanta doesn't re-sign Babineaux cincy should really make a hard play as he's still young, a very good penetrator and quick player who can distrupt the run behind the line and pressure the QB. Angelo Crowell is another player who'd be a big help as he's a very good LB who works hard and brings the type of blue collar attitude this team lacks. Heading into the draft the bengals would then be well served to add a DE with their first rounder and possibly trade up for Mack in the late first round, a great center can give a line much improved chemistry and stability. With that start I could see cincy quickly returning to contender status.

The Legend
09-16-2008, 11:42 PM
Less then 50% comp, 200 Yards in 2 games, 4 Yards avg,
0 Td's, 3 Picks, sacked 3 times, Not the best start for sure.

Ness
09-17-2008, 01:06 AM
Get the man a line that protects, receivers that are productive/not injured, and a running game. He hasn't had a running game for three years. I feel sorry for Carson having to play for an organization ruled by one of the worst owners in professional sports. And it's not just two bad games he's had. It was evident last season when he threw 20 interceptions. Take away that monster Browns game and he has 21 touchdowns and 20 interceptions. Not very impressive at all.

Carson didn't play that great last season and it didn't get much better as the season went on. And now it's carried into the preseason and now the regular season. Hopefully things get turned around, but that team is so bad right now I don't see it happening. Especially in that division.

giantsfan
09-17-2008, 01:08 AM
If the Bengals just gave him a stellar oline again they'd be playoff contenders. Levi's a good LT and Andrews is a force on the otherside, but that line desperately someone to give it direction, ideally they add a center who can lead that line and have them working as a unit.

vidae
09-17-2008, 05:29 AM
I'm still hard pressed to drop Palmer out of my top 5 if I'm being honest.

Yes, the first two games have looked bad. Cinci is not playing well on offense, defense or special teams. You just can't overlook Palmer. The injury was unfortunate, but he's still a top QB. The Bengals, as a franchise, have so many gd problems right now it's unreal, but they definitely have the QB situation well in control.

Get a run game for him, fix up the middle of that oline, and let him do his thing.

Oh, and if this were week 8 I'd be worried. It's week 2. :)

D-Unit
09-17-2008, 06:13 AM
This is a classic case of a team that refuses to learn from past mistakes. For every step forward that the Bengals take, they take two steps back. Drafting Carson Palmer was one of the best decisions that the organization made. I actually believe it was by accident. They got very lucky. Since that day, they have failed to get lucky again and thus they have regressed. The organization has to make a drastic philosophical changes in the way they run their football team. It would take a professional to disect them all, but they need to realize that they need to make tough decisions that will put them back temporarily, but help them move forward and make real progress in the long term. The decision makers in Cincy are hard headed and they lack vision. I hope they realize this. Trading away Palmer won't solve any problems. Heck... as long as they keep drafting USC players, they'll be one their way. Keith Rivers looks great so far. Seriously though, change has to happen soon.

themaninblack
09-17-2008, 09:10 AM
It has to happen but it probably won't as long as we have the same owner. It really bites because this area is such a football area with HS football and to an extent in college. You'd think we'd be able to have at least a competitive franchise in Cincy but it's just not the case.

LonghornsLegend
09-17-2008, 09:13 AM
Did anyone pay attention to him last year? He hasn't just been playing bad since this year, plenty times last year it looked like him and Chad had no rhythm, and that offense took plenty of 3 and outs.


That "they played two good defenses" argument is lame, this is a high powered offense that could score points against anybody, no matter how good the defense, now they get a pass because they played some good defenses? I still think Palmer is talented but there is no continuity on offense, no chemistry, blocking is bad, its alot of things bottled into one but everyone looks really bad.


Also do Bengals fans still feel Marvin is on a short leash? I remember most telling me it was no way he gets fired when I mentioned he was on the hot seat, really don't see that lasting long especially if it continues the way its been going.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-17-2008, 09:15 AM
[QUOTE=MarioPalmer;1216796]So please, if you want to talk about over rated QBs lets talk about Eli Manning. Just because you win a SB doesn't mean all is good. Just look at Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Kurt Warner and should I go on? So he has just as much to prove if not more then Carson. Eli has never been on his own, never. [\QUOTE]


Of course is means all is good! Why would there be problems? Who cares about Brad Johnson, and Dilfer, we didn't trade picks to draft them, but Accorsi did for Eli because he saw something. Why don't you try reading some of the books that came out to get the whole story. And that's good that he has never won on his won. Good teams have talent around their QB! That's called having a good owner, who wants to win, AND having a good HC and GM that provides talent to help the franchise QB and team. Do you get style points for "winning on your own"? Does one superbowl count 3 times got that sort of win?

MarioPalmer
09-20-2008, 12:30 PM
Well I wasn't trying to put Eli Manning down, I just hate watching this owner and this front office piss away this QB and this young talent on basically nothing. I could down the line of teams right now that would be willing to trade their #1 picks for the next 2 years to get Carson Palmer, and this doofus of a owner just throws away his talent. It really boggles the mind, I'm serious.

Shiver
09-20-2008, 12:58 PM
Look at Carson Palmer's production when they had a competent running game. It is hard to put up consistently good numbers without some semblance of offensive balance. Rudi Johnson's decline and the Bengals' inability to add a competent RB have derailed that offense. Chris Perry? Kenny Watson? Come on!

PalmerToCJ
09-20-2008, 01:59 PM
Look at Carson Palmer's production when they had a competent running game. It is hard to put up consistently good numbers without some semblance of offensive balance. Rudi Johnson's decline and the Bengals' inability to add a competent RB have derailed that offense. Chris Perry? Kenny Watson? Come on!

Word.

I will defend Perry in saying our run blocking has suffered the second Rich Braham got hurt in the 2nd week of 2006... It hasn't been the same since. Perry deserves a better shot than these two weeks, last week the Titans knew we were going to run the ball given the conditions. I think over the next 14 games he'll be a 4 YPC guy (health provided).

Anyone who puts last weeks game on Carson is outrageous, WE HAD SUSTAINED 50+ MPH WINDS! Why anyone acknowledges this game as him struggling is beyond me. Despite the fact that the Titans have a solid D the wind was our biggest enemy. Week 1 Carson was on his back the entire time, hard to find a guy when you take 3 steps back and have to run for your life. Our Oline wasn't as bad last week, week 1 was the worst it's played in years.

He doesn't get much of a break as we play the Giants tomorrow but hopefully the line will step up.

awfullyquiet
09-20-2008, 02:58 PM
One: Problem is overrated.

Two: Problem is overrated.

Three: the only problem that isn't overrated is your O-line. They suck. Props to CJ for calling them out to work harder.

Bengalsrocket
09-20-2008, 06:46 PM
Did anyone pay attention to him last year? He hasn't just been playing bad since this year, plenty times last year it looked like him and Chad had no rhythm, and that offense took plenty of 3 and outs.


That "they played two good defenses" argument is lame, this is a high powered offense that could score points against anybody, no matter how good the defense, now they get a pass because they played some good defenses? I still think Palmer is talented but there is no continuity on offense, no chemistry, blocking is bad, its alot of things bottled into one but everyone looks really bad.


Also do Bengals fans still feel Marvin is on a short leash? I remember most telling me it was no way he gets fired when I mentioned he was on the hot seat, really don't see that lasting long especially if it continues the way its been going.

When I said that I didn't think Marvin would get fired, I was in belief that we would put at least 5 wins. However if we only put 3 or 4 wins then maybe he gets fired. But not because Mike Brown wants us to win and he thinks changing personnel will help, but rather because Lewis and Brown probably won't get along after this season (its not like they currently do).

TitleTown088
09-20-2008, 06:47 PM
Did you mean " what is to be done"? I don't normally rep too much but whoever gets that will.

Bengals78
09-21-2008, 01:40 PM
I dont think anything is "wrong" with Carson. The Oline isnt blocking and personally I think Chad is saddlebagging it Ive seen some passes '04-05 Chad catches dropped. Losing Big Willie, and a solid run game hurts any QB production.

PalmerToCJ
09-21-2008, 04:17 PM
Carson is fine, the Oline is coming around but still needs some work. End of story.

Thankfully we get out of this run of good defenses and play Cleveland next week.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-21-2008, 04:20 PM
Great game. Bengals played very hard, and had a great, great gameplan and owned on us defense. Only saving grace was both defenses had issues, but their offense is a sick offense. That damn bubble screen worked wonders on us first half. If Robbins keeps this up, he is going to the pro bowl.

Babylon
09-21-2008, 04:58 PM
Carson is fine, the Oline is coming around but still needs some work. End of story.

Thankfully we get out of this run of good defenses and play Cleveland next week.

That offensive line i thought did a poor job in pass protection, the Bengals should have won the game.

PalmerToCJ
09-21-2008, 06:02 PM
That offensive line i thought did a poor job in pass protection, the Bengals should have won the game.

Well, it was like they would either give him great protection or poor protection... There wasn't a lot of in between. Either way today's game was a BIG upgrade over the way they played vs. Baltimore if you can believe that.

neko4
09-21-2008, 07:04 PM
Whats up with Ocho? (sorry to go off a topic a bit)
It wasnt like he faced a great secondary and TJ put up big #'s. How come he's been struggling?

Babylon
09-21-2008, 07:08 PM
Whats up with Ocho? (sorry to go off a topic a bit)
It wasnt like he faced a great secondary and TJ put up big #'s. How come he's been struggling?

He doesnt appear healthy at all. They looked pretty good everything considered out there. The o-line is a bit porous but this is a pretty good football team. Having said that i dont see them winning a ton of games this year.

MarioPalmer
09-21-2008, 07:43 PM
Okay, so after todays game I am once again totally happy with my boy and one of the top 5 best QBs in the league. I never said he wasn't, I was just sort of pissed that he hadn't been playing up to his All-Pro level and then he has a game like he has today against the Super Bowl champs.

Carson is back and is primed for another Pro-Bowl season and he should just throw the ball to who ever is playing well. Forget about Chad and forget about whats the popular thing to do amongst the media, just go out and play.

Today was a horrific site in ridiculous O-Line play, especially Levi Jones who could quite possibly the most horrid pass defender playing on the OLT position in the NFL. Giachec is even worse if that is possible. Carson was sacked 6 times today and still threw for almost 300 yards and 1 TD and led the game tying drive with 4secs left in the ball game. He played like the Carson we all know about.

With that said the play calling, all but the 4th quarter, was aweful. They call 2 straight running plays in OT when they new that the passing game was hot, yet still try to play it safe against the Giants. Total crap, Carson should have gotten in the huddle and just said were winning this now and went out there and just slung it. But of coarse, this horrible coaching staff playcalls 2 boring plays that the Giants saw coming from a mile away.

Carson Palmer is back people, and he is on his way to becoming the guy everyone said was going to take over for Brady and Manning. He played so damn wel today that is was a treat to watch a QB play that way in the midst of some of the most fierce pass rushing in the league.

Good for you Carson and WHO DEY! Bengal fans.

RCAChainGang
09-21-2008, 08:00 PM
He is still a great quarterback, just not much help around him.
Not to mention your defense isn't great.

PalmerToCJ
09-21-2008, 08:02 PM
He is still a great quarterback, just not much help around him.
Not to mention your defense isn't great.

The defense has played well this year, they just got murdered in the 4th quarter the first two games because they were on the field all game.

They played well enough for us to win all 3 games.

RCAChainGang
09-21-2008, 08:03 PM
The defense has played well this year, they just got murdered in the 4th quarter the first two games because they were on the field all game.

Yeah I didn't watch the game just saw the scores. Thanks for correction.

MarioPalmer
09-21-2008, 08:04 PM
He looked like the guy we all now and root for and the guy we are in awe of when watching him. He was that good today.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
09-21-2008, 10:14 PM
the time i choose to bench Palmer and start Cassell I get ******!

themaninblack
09-21-2008, 10:34 PM
Today was a horrific site in ridiculous O-Line play, especially Levi Jones who could quite possibly the most horrid pass defender playing on the OLT position in the NFL. Giachec is even worse if that is possible. Carson was sacked 6 times today and still threw for almost 300 yards and 1 TD and led the game tying drive with 4secs left in the ball game. He played like the Carson we all know about.



I agree with everything you said except this part about the OL. Ghiaciuc is horrible and we all know that. Levi had a bad game and I really don't think he wants to be here anymore. He's been a great player for us since we drafted him and pass blocking has been his strong suit. I don't know what happened but he is just not his old self because at one point I think you could've made the argument he was a potential All Pro candidate.

All that aside, and you all may call me crazy just by looking at the stats, I though the OL took some steps forward today. Their biggest problem has been Ghiaciuc not being able to set the protections correctly but I thought today he improved on that. I think you could attribute about half of those sacks to bad OL play. The rest of them lie on Carson to some extent and especially the OC Bratkowski not knowing how to combat pressure like that. I don't know about you but quick 3 step drops and screen plays can go a long way in negating a pass rush. We also seemed to be outnumbered in the protection more than we should've been and they also didn't roll out enough to move the pocket. Against a DL like that you need to do those type of things to negate their pressure and wear out that DL. I'm not gonna sit here and say the OL even played good but they were better than what they have been thus far this season and I am encouraged by it. We need a new Center like you wouldn't believe though.

MarioPalmer
09-21-2008, 11:06 PM
Oh yeah, Alex Mack looks mighty good right about now, I say we take Andre Davis and then move back up and grab Alex Mack. After that it's whatever.

Oh, and grab a defensive talent with what ever first round pick we get for Chad Johnson.

themaninblack
09-21-2008, 11:07 PM
I agree completely. I like Mack a lot especially the nasty demeanor he seems to play with. I'd like another LBer early too.

MarioPalmer
09-22-2008, 12:54 AM
I agree completely. I like Mack a lot especially the nasty demeanor he seems to play with. I'd like another LBer early too.

Oh yeah, I would love Rey Maualuga, but we're going to have to make a choice between a OL or a defensive player.

Andre Davis or Rey Maualuga?

Unless the Redskins suck really really bad and get a top 10 pick then are willing to trade their 1rst for Chad Johnson like they were last year, and they were willing to trade their 2007 #6 overall pick for Lance Briggs and he can't make nearly the impact Chad could make for them, we won't be able to trade Chad for a pick that will net us Rey Rey. He's going in the top 10, unless one of the teams desperate for a wide out is picking there we won't get Rey. Especially if Michael Crabtree and Jeremy Maclin enter the draft. Thise 2 receivers will be there for the picking by a team in need of a wide out.

Best possible situation would be to get Andre Davis, Eugene Monroe or Michael Oher and then Rey Maualuga, and then move up to get Alex Mack.

I don't think we should look past Duke Robinson. He would be a destroyer that our run game would definitly need. Georgia RB Moreno would be a hard choice to pass on, but I think Perry can be the guy if we have a awesome run blocking oline.

This draft in 2009 needs to make up for the huge mistakes of the past. The whole 2005 draft was horrible, Kenny Irons was a huge waste, Ahmad Brooks could have had a Pro-Bowl carreer but he is as dumb as rocks and had no ambition to be great. Hopefully Jerome Simpson can live up to his 2nd round draft status, but I think he is 2 years away from being a starter. So this draft coming up needs to be the key to the Bengals future. Rivers is a Pro-Bowl waiting to happen but he's a OLB. He's not a DT, DE, OLT, C or SS/FS. Those seem to be our weakess spots on the squad as of now.

Also, drop the players with the tude. No questions asked, just dump them for what ever you can get. And build this team around the rock that is Carson Palmer.

themaninblack
09-22-2008, 09:28 AM
Of the weaknesses you listed the only ones I really agree with are DT and C though I even like the two young guys we drafted at DT this past draft. We have 3-4 pretty solid DE's we just need another DT to step up alongside Peko. Sims and Shirley excite me with what they can potentially offer. I really like the young safety tandem we have with White/Ndukwe they just need to let Ndukwe start instead of DJax. I could see us taking a LT especially if we end up getting rid of Levi(I don't think we will though) but we still have Anthony Collins waiting in the wings and the coaches have been impressed by him. A better Center would do wonders for this OL. I don't see us drafting a guy like Duke Robinson when we just locked up Whitworth long term and Williams is on a multi year deal he signed 2 years ago(I think?). The key is to lock up Stacey long term, get a C, and possibly do something with Levi if he doesn't improve.

MarioPalmer
10-05-2008, 11:30 PM
Okay, I figure I revive this thread, because of Carson's last 2 outings. He didn't play in the Browns game, but in the Giants game and today against the Cowboys I think we are finally seeing the real Carson Palmer and I have to say he is almost back fully at 100%. He missed some easy throws today but his elbow has been inflamed and thats why he missed the Browns game, but he is there and he is coming on strong and I don't think we will be very far from a huge game in the near future.

One player that I have absolutely lost all patience with is Chad Johnson. He has completely blown this year off and it's obvious. Sorry, but it's time for this squad to trade him come offseason and pick up a high draft and spend it on a hungry young player that has the world to prove.

But, overall, Carson is coming back guys, and he is on his way to becoming the elite guy he was in 2006 and in the first part of 2007.

Bruce Banner
10-05-2008, 11:34 PM
He still is elite. Being terrible is contagious albeit temporary for players with his talent and mindset.

MarioPalmer
10-05-2008, 11:38 PM
He still is elite. Being terrible is contagious albeit temporary for players with his talent.

I know, but it's good to see him finally getting his confidence back and fianally acting like the leader he is. Today he was pissed about Chad running the wrong route and you could see it in Chads eyes that he was embarressed when he got back in the huddle. Because he knew Carson would give him that look, thats what this team needs. The coaching staff doesn't get on these guys so I think that Carson takes it upon himself to do so.

It's really fun watching talented players play to their talent. There is nothing I hate more than watching great talented players play like utter ****. I can't tell you how many times I just end up turning the TV off because a great player is playing like crap. It really erks me bad...lol

Bruce Banner
10-05-2008, 11:40 PM
I know, but it's good to see him finally getting his confidence back and fianally acting like the leader he is. Today he was pissed about Chad running the wrong route and you could see it in Chads eyes that he was embarressed when he got back in the huddle. Because he knew Carson would give him that look, thats what this team needs. The coaching staff doesn't get on these guys so I think that Carson takes it upon himself to do so.

It's really fun watching talented players play to their talent. There is nothing I hate more than watching great talented players play like utter ****. I can't tell you how many times I just end up turning the TV off because a great player is playing like crap. It really erks me bad...lol

Carson was pissed! I've never seen that emotion from him. He did look defeated after that last sack though. Took his time to get the next snap off, lol.

I don't know how he deals with it all. The criminals, laziness, coaching apathy.

MarioPalmer
10-06-2008, 12:30 AM
Carson was pissed! I've never seen that emotion from him. He did look defeated after that last sack though. Took his time to get the next snap off, lol.

I don't know how he deals with it all. The criminals, laziness, coaching apathy.

I know man, he's got a lot more patience then I would have with these guys. Seriously, it's simply amazing the kind of crap he puts up with, but he never let's it effect him like it would the average joe or even the average QB. I'm really high on him right now and I see him taking another big step into his elite status next week. Carson is finally getting his players around him all going in the same direction. It's just a shame that it's gonna take 6 games into the season for that to happen.

trkaline
10-06-2008, 12:38 AM
I say you euthanize him...

DMWSackMachine
10-06-2008, 12:47 AM
I was rather surprised to see how competent Palmer and Co. looked this week. I thought that week against the Giants was just a matter of the G-men being not that great and also not taking them seriously, but maybe they are ready to make a little noise. I mean, they still weren't great or anything, but they certainly didn't look helpless or out of sorts like they have at times in the past. I would be encouraged if I was a Bengal fan....well, as encouraged as possible with my team being 0-5.

M.O.T.H.
10-06-2008, 06:15 AM
A game of two halves...I thought he shouldnt even have been out there in the 1st half but, he got better as the game went on. Made some excellent throws to the side lines. I never questioned whether he was done or anything like that...I just thought he shouldnt be playing in his current medical state...but, he looks pretty good to go. Hopefully, he stays healthy.

bigbluedefense
10-06-2008, 06:15 PM
That defense is finally starting to come together.

Theyre a stud DE and a solid DT away from being a solid defense.

SuperKevin
10-06-2008, 06:17 PM
That defense is finally starting to come together.

Theyre a stud DE and a solid DT away from being a solid defense.

And maybe it'd help if they had a player who's been in the league longer than a year and a half in the secondary

bigbluedefense
10-06-2008, 06:22 PM
And maybe it'd help if they had a player who's been in the league longer than a year and a half in the secondary

theyre a year away.

I like White and Hall, Rivers adds stability to that LB core, Jones is solid, Peko adds stouteness to the line.

They just need a stud DE, and a solid DT. Pat Simms, its time to wake up and be somebody.

themaninblack
10-06-2008, 09:30 PM
And maybe it'd help if they had a player who's been in the league longer than a year and a half in the secondary

It's a blessing and a curse. we got 4 really talented young guys but their experience is lacking.

The sad part is maybe our best player in the secondary doesn't even start when DJax is healthy. Chinedum Ndukwe is an absolute stud.

PalmerToCJ
10-06-2008, 10:17 PM
That defense is finally starting to come together.

Theyre a stud DE and a solid DT away from being a solid defense.

THANK YOU... Honestly, I think we have an average defense this year. The run D is better than the stats show, the pass D is probably worse than the stats show (top 8ish) but overall I think we're a middle of the pack defense.

I completely agree with you about the DE/DT. Zimmer has been great about creating pressure but it has to come from blitzes, the only guy in our front 4 that creates much pressure is Geathers. I'd like a MLB for the future but our secondary is solid. Hall has played great, White has been adequate and Chinedum Ndukwe may be our best playmaker, I could see him in a pro bowl some day. Joseph is solid when healthy.

Our secondary has been the best unit as a whole to this point on the entire team.

themaninblack
10-06-2008, 11:01 PM
THANK YOU... Honestly, I think we have an average defense this year. The run D is better than the stats show, the pass D is probably worse than the stats show (top 8ish) but overall I think we're a middle of the pack defense.

I completely agree with you about the DE/DT. Zimmer has been great about creating pressure but it has to come from blitzes, the only guy in our front 4 that creates much pressure is Geathers. I'd like a MLB for the future but our secondary is solid. Hall has played great, White has been adequate and Chinedum Ndukwe may be our best playmaker, I could see him in a pro bowl some day. Joseph is solid when healthy.

Our secondary has been the best unit as a whole to this point on the entire team.

JJ is an outstanding player when he is healthy. He could be one of the better corners in this league if he can stay on the field.

soybean
09-17-2010, 02:36 PM
Remember the days when Carson Palmer was good? ahhhh... those were the days...

Time to cut their losses and look for a QBofTF

FlyingElvis
09-17-2010, 02:43 PM
Sarcasm? Tough to tell . . .

But, since you're bumping this dusty old thread after he went and put up solid numbers last weekend, I'll assume it's sarcasm.

68% for 345 with 2 Tds and a 92.5 passer rating says hello.

soybean
09-17-2010, 02:46 PM
Bill Simmons says it MUCH better than I would:

was banking on my beloved Patriots to be explosive offensively, so I can't say their dismantling of Cincy's defense was surprising. But that underwhelming Bengals effort shocked me. No pass rush. None. And can we finally give up the whole "Carson Palmer is a good quarterback" thing? His gaudy stat line (345 yards, a couple of TDs) came in extended garbage time. He threw one pick for a touchdown and another three ducks that the Patriots dropped. He couldn't have looked more inaccurate and uncomfortable until the Pats backed off with a 31-3 lead. And you know what else? Like Mischa Barton, he hasn't looked that good for four years. All-Pro status ain't coming back. For either of them. Time to give up the ghost. I had them making the playoffs; now I'm vacating that spot Calipari-style and keeping it warm for Houston, Baltimore or Tennessee.

Babylon
09-17-2010, 02:58 PM
They'll beat the Ravens this weekend and the thread will stay quiet for awhile.

soybean
09-17-2010, 02:59 PM
and if they dont...?

tjsunstein
09-17-2010, 02:59 PM
He just needs weapons around him.
A solid run game?
Wait.

FlyingElvis
09-17-2010, 03:06 PM
He may not be a stud anymore (if he ever really was) but he's still a good QB.

Let's not lose sight of the fact that the Patriots have played him well historically, and are tough to beat in Foxboro.

Tom Brady has won an incredible 20 straight home games in the regular season.

LonghornsLegend
09-17-2010, 03:14 PM
Sarcasm? Tough to tell . . .

But, since you're bumping this dusty old thread after he went and put up solid numbers last weekend, I'll assume it's sarcasm.

68% for 345 with 2 Tds and a 92.5 passer rating says hello.


Ahhh but FE you know we have to put that into context, the Bengals got their ass blown out before the game even started good. It was 24-3 at halftime and Carson's stats were pretty bad at that point. For the next 2 quarters all you had was Cincy running no huddle and throwing 90% of the time, and the Pats in prevent defense 70% of the time.


Stats do look nice(and my fantasy football team approves), but I just think by looking at the stat line it's a bit skewed as far as what you would think his overall performance was. Those stats would be excellent if it was a tight game beginning to end and they were running the full offensive playbook and NE wasn't just dropping guys into coverage.


I still feel Carson is overrated as I have for about 2 years now, maybe longer, but I think it's pretty obvious getting Gresham and TO(damn he looked good, no idea why they wanted Bryant more) is going to help him out a ton.


I think once the team, OC, Marvin Lewis, or a combination of all of them figure out that Bernard Scott is really good and deserves more touches, it'll make the offense as a whole look alot better.


I think Carson is in that 13-18 range of QB's right now for me, if he finishes this year strong he'll be closer to fringe top 10 then he would the 20's.

Matthew Jones
09-17-2010, 03:17 PM
Carson Palmer was absolutely terrible in the game last week. Bill Simmons summed it up well in the quote he posted. Palmer looked extremely confused and inaccurate until the game completely got away and the Patriots started subbing out starters more often, taking plays off, and playing out of a prevent defense. There were a ton of dropped interceptions and close calls. Almost all of his statistics were racked up in meaningless situations (i.e. his 60 or so yard pass to end the half, and his touchdowns once the game was over.)

yourfavestoner
09-17-2010, 03:48 PM
Dude can't hit the broadside of a barn anymore, that elbow has had it. Stick a fork in him.

tjsunstein
09-17-2010, 03:51 PM
Dude can't hit the broadside of a barn anymore, that elbow has had it. Stick a fork in him.
He could if he was trying to throw over it.

FlyingElvis
09-17-2010, 03:55 PM
Ahhh but FE you know we have to put that into context, the Bengals got their ass blown out before the game even started good. It was 24-3 at halftime and Carson's stats were pretty bad at that point. For the next 2 quarters all you had was Cincy running no huddle and throwing 90% of the time, and the Pats in prevent defense 70% of the time.
True, but that does a disservice to what was a damn good game by the Patriots D.

I think once the team, OC, Marvin Lewis, or a combination of all of them figure out that Bernard Scott is really good and deserves more touches, it'll make the offense as a whole look alot better.
This hits my contention in another discussion. At some point the coaching has to be blown the **** up.

I think Carson is in that 13-18 range of QB's right now for me, if he finishes this year strong he'll be closer to fringe top 10 then he would the 20's.
Which is to say he's a good QB. Certainly not elite, not even great, but good. Simmons quote is "can we finally give up the whole "Carson Palmer is a good quarterback" thing?" By quoting him, I assume this is the same way Soybean feels, and I disagree.

Babylon
09-17-2010, 04:06 PM
and if they dont...?

Then there'll be 5 more pages about what's wrong with Palmer. Hey they scored 24 points against New England, until Carson starts playing defense i wouldnt blame him for everything.

LonghornsLegend
09-17-2010, 04:29 PM
Which is to say he's a good QB. Certainly not elite, not even great, but good. Simmons quote is "can we finally give up the whole "Carson Palmer is a good quarterback" thing?" By quoting him, I assume this is the same way Soybean feels, and I disagree.



There are 32 starting QB's in the NFL, the 16 point would be average. Good is top 10, elite is top 3. I think Carson Palmer is a solid, average QB, which IMO would be slotted right in that range of 13-18 depending on how this season plays out.

Bengalsrocket
09-17-2010, 05:12 PM
Dude can't hit the broadside of a barn anymore, that elbow has had it. Stick a fork in him.

I don't want to start a huge fight because despite being a Bengals fan, I don't rank Palmer that high as a QB. But I don't see any injury effecting physically. He's not "afraid to step up" or "always over throwing his passes". He simply doesn't make the greatest of decisions out there. Sunday he threw 5-6 passes where he wasn't even on the same page as his receiver (a majority of which were Chad I believe, and that has been happening since 2007).

It was the first game of the season. Last year we lost the broncos and I remember a Packers fan predicting the Bengals to go 0-6 after week 1. Let's wait a few weeks before start all the thread necromancy and go nuts over Palmer's terrible game.

Saints-Tigers
09-17-2010, 05:41 PM
I remember when people tried to argue that he was better than Brees.

Nalej
09-17-2010, 05:47 PM
Then there'll be 5 more pages about what's wrong with Palmer. Hey they scored 24 points against New England, until Carson starts playing defense i wouldnt blame him for everything.

Garbage points

A Perfect Score
09-17-2010, 07:51 PM
I remember when people tried to argue that he was better than Brees.

Thats because there was a point when he could of been better then Brees. He was the prototype for NFL QB's coming out, and up until the knee injury in the playoffs which has been discussed to death, he was on track to becoming one of the best QBs in the NFL. Make no mistake, there was most definitely a time when Carson Palmer and Drew Brees belonged in the same discussion as far as QB's go. Clearly that has changed, but it doesnt negate the fact that there was a time where that was relevant.

dan77733
09-17-2010, 07:56 PM
It starts with the OL. Palmer stayed in the pocket and was closed in on almost every pass play. It seems to me that the Bengals OL is good at run blocking but not at pass blocking. At least, thats the way it looked to me while watching the game.

J-Mike88
09-17-2010, 08:02 PM
Thats because there was a point when he could of been better then Brees. He was the prototype for NFL QB's coming out, and up until the knee injury in the playoffs which has been discussed to death, he was on track to becoming one of the best QBs in the NFL. Make no mistake, there was most definitely a time when Carson Palmer and Drew Brees belonged in the same discussion as far as QB's go. Clearly that has changed, but it doesnt negate the fact that there was a time where that was relevant.
That's correct. Good valid points, and that illustrates the fact that things change.
Favre was left for dead, was over the hill, should retire, and then he had last year.

Kurt Warner was done in St Louis, went to the NYG, and was thrown out the door there too.

Then he resurfaces in Arizona and puts on a few Hall of Fame years.

Brees was done in San Diego too when he injured his shoulder.

Two years ago, Cutler was on the fast track in Denver to superstardom.
Now what? He's up & down, and not mentioned with the Rivers and Rodgers and Romo's.

This s*** isn't in stone in the NFL.

CC.SD
09-17-2010, 08:45 PM
It's ridic to write off this season after one game.

FlyingElvis
09-17-2010, 09:02 PM
It's ridic to write off this season after one game.
I concur, totally Riddic.

http://avtora.com/uploads/Odn4-27Jy10kOHgaMTesBA/U1jPZIQBPAMM5AktOb3TFA/riddic_01.jpg

Bengalsrz
09-17-2010, 11:20 PM
I know everyone wants to believe that Palmer only started clicking last week because it was "garbage time," but Belichick and Bratkowski (Bengals OC) have both stated that the Patriots defense did not let up until there were three minutes left on the game clock.

And anyone claiming that they were garbage time points/yards is clearly just basing this off the fact that we were down so much. The Pats were sending the same types of blitz packages and there was no visible cushion in coverage.

Think what you want, he had a horrible half, but he stepped it up in the second half. Hopefully that carries over. Carson has all the intangibles and has no lack of confidence or weapons. The only thing working against him at this point is his o-line, but if the 2nd half of last week is any indication, our no huddle offense can move down the field quickly and effectively. I really think this can be the year that he brings himself back to the Elite QB Discussion, but we shall see. What do I know? I'm just a homer bengals fan...

zachsaints52
09-17-2010, 11:29 PM
He is gonna be Top 12 Passer this year, don't worry about him.

LonghornsLegend
09-18-2010, 10:39 AM
And anyone claiming that they were garbage time points/yards is clearly just basing this off the fact that we were down so much....

I'm pretty sure you just contradicted yourself right here. Not sure if you know what the meaning of "garbage time" actually is...

Bengalsrz
09-18-2010, 10:42 AM
I'm pretty sure you just contradicted yourself right here. Not sure if you know what the meaning of "garbage time" actually is...

Garbage time implies that the defense is playing prevent D or with a significantly larger cushion against receivers.

Yes, it was "garbage time," but New England wasn't playing garbage time defense.

You know what I meant, no need to nitpick my word choice.

ElectricEye
09-18-2010, 11:57 AM
Garbage time implies that the defense is playing prevent D or with a significantly larger cushion against receivers.

Yes, it was "garbage time," but New England wasn't playing garbage time defense.

You know what I meant, no need to nitpick my word choice.

We were playing garbage time defense. Not prevent, but we took the heat off as we got up and subbed in some of our second string type guys more. We went waaaaaaaaay more vanilla base type defense in the second half.

I actually still believe in Carson Palmer, although he has regressed, but those were garbage points for the most part.

Bengalsrz
09-18-2010, 12:18 PM
We were playing garbage time defense. Not prevent, but we took the heat off as we got up and subbed in some of our second string type guys more. We went waaaaaaaaay more vanilla base type defense in the second half.

I actually still believe in Carson Palmer, although he has regressed, but those were garbage points for the most part.

Didn't look that way to me. I've watched the game multiple times, and the defense looked very similar. I think it was the no-huddle offense that really caught the defense off balance. Regardless, Bratkowsi and Belichick already said it that their defense didn't switch up until the very end of the game.

Another thing to note, the Patriots went for it on 4th down with 2 minutes left while up 21. Doesn't really make sense for a team that is apparently trying to run up the score to allow the other teams offense to move down the field and score easily.

FlyingElvis
09-18-2010, 09:57 PM
Another thing to note, the Patriots went for it on 4th down with 2 minutes left while up 21. Doesn't really make sense for a team that is apparently trying to run up the score to allow the other teams offense to move down the field and score easily.
Honestly, I shouldn't even waste the keystrokes required to type it, but . . .

3 points is completely meaningless at that point. A first down, on the other hand, allows you to kneel and run out the clock.

Rosebud
09-18-2010, 11:12 PM
Garbage time implies that the defense is playing prevent D or with a significantly larger cushion against receivers.

Yes, it was "garbage time," but New England wasn't playing garbage time defense.

You know what I meant, no need to nitpick my word choice.

Nah, the implication of garbage time isn't so simply schematic, it also includes the fact that a lot of players ease up when they're up big, focusing more on staying healthy and protecting the lead than going out and making a play or a stop. While it's true that some teams go prevent, that's not the only implication of garbage time.

Bengalsrz
09-18-2010, 11:43 PM
Honestly, I shouldn't even waste the keystrokes required to type it, but . . .

3 points is completely meaningless at that point. A first down, on the other hand, allows you to kneel and run out the clock.

Pretty darn sure it was 4th and goal, actually.

And Carson's 2nd half stats can be interpreted however way we want them to be. I'm sure I'm speaking with a bit of bias here, but I do think there's a lot of truth to what I'm saying. Let's just let the season play out and see what happens. Or at least Week 2.

SenorGato
09-19-2010, 12:26 AM
I hope Palmer wins a Super Bowl before he retires.

FlyingElvis
09-20-2010, 09:46 AM
Pretty darn sure it was 4th and goal, actually.

No, it wasn't. It was 4th & 2 at the 7.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010091202/2010/REG1/bengals@patriots/recap#recap-channels:cat-post-recap-full-story/tab:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

Bengalsrz
09-20-2010, 04:52 PM
No, it wasn't. It was 4th & 2 at the 7.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010091202/2010/REG1/bengals@patriots/recap#recap-channels:cat-post-recap-full-story/tab:analyze/analyze-channels:cat-post-playbyplay

Ah, the game was taken off the air and I thought I saw that on gamecenter. I'll eat my crow on that one.

Matthew Jones
09-26-2010, 10:06 AM
I know this game happened a couple weeks ago, but yesterday I finally got to go back and watch the first half of my tape of the Patriots/Bengals game and took some pictures I thought people on here might be interested in. I probably won't be able to check out the second half for a while but if people want it I'll post some more when I go through that tape.

This is Palmer's interception in the second quarter. As soon as he drops back, you can see him looking for Jermaine Gresham, who's being covered by Gary Guyton.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/Random/Palmer1.png

Despite having stared down Gresham almost the entire play, Palmer decides to let it rip. Guyton jumps the route. Notice Cedric Benson starting to get open vs. Jerod Mayo.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/Random/Palmer2.png

Guyton intercepts the pass, and it's off to the races.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/Random/Palmer3.png
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/Random/Palmer4.png

---

On the Bengals' very next offensive play, Palmer fumbles the snap but is able to recover it.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/Random/Palmer5.png

---

This is the next passing play the Bengals run in the game. New England lines up with only one down lineman (Myron Pryor, #91.)

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/Random/Palmer6.png

Palmer goes over the middle on an intermediate route, but Darius Butler has position on Chad Ochocinco.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/Random/Palmer7.png

Butler grabs the ball, but it is ruled that he did not have possession of the ball prior to hitting the ground, and Guyton was offsides for the Patriots. Still not an encouraging throw/read from Palmer.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/Random/Palmer8.png

---

Later on the same drive, Palmer drops back under pressure, and as he is being hit, decides against taking the sack. Instead, he attempts to throw the ball to Gresham, who is running the same route he did on the interception by Guyton. Notice James Sanders standing directly in front of Gresham, waiting to make the interception. Fortunately for the Bengals, Vince Wilfork knocks the ball off course, and Mayo dives but comes up just short of making the interception.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k192/RPMcMurphy_01/Random/Palmer9.png

NY+Giants=NYG
09-26-2010, 11:30 AM
He needs to get out of Cinci somehow.

I agree! Great talent! I like him as a QB, but he is rotting in Cincy. Get him on another team, and I think he'd do damn well. Always liked and respected his talent.

Complex
09-26-2010, 02:06 PM
I agree! Great talent! I like him as a QB, but he is rotting in Cincy. Get him on another team, and I think he'd do damn well. Always liked and respected his talent.

No He sucks, He really really sucks bad

ThePudge
09-26-2010, 03:23 PM
I agree! Great talent! I like him as a QB, but he is rotting in Cincy. Get him on another team, and I think he'd do damn well. Always liked and respected his talent.

Cincy has as many weapons as any team in the NFL. Right now Carson has been holding us back. He needs to find his rhythm, maybe he will, maybe he won't. So far he's been disappointing due to accuracy troubles and poor decisions.

SchizophrenicBatman
09-26-2010, 03:58 PM
Palmer right now looks like a really awful rookie. I dont know what the Bengals can do with him since his back up is his terrible brother but they're stuck in purgatory as long he's their QB imo. Seems like he gets worse every year

J-Mike88
09-26-2010, 03:58 PM
Cincy has as many weapons as any team in the NFL. Right now Carson has been holding us back. He needs to find his rhythm, maybe he will, maybe he won't. So far he's been disappointing due to accuracy troubles and poor decisions.
Right, the problem appears to be the QB, not everybody else around him.
He has a nice set of WRs and good receiving TE.
Two threats at RB too.

Palmer isn't the same Palmer as he was before the Steeler guy popped out his knee.
As much as I dislike the Pats and Brady, I have to tip my cap to the shaggy-haired pretty boy for coming back strong after his ACL was popped out by Bernie Pollard.

Brodeur
09-26-2010, 04:00 PM
Dan LeFevour > Carson Palmer.

J-Mike88
09-26-2010, 04:08 PM
Great work by the way from RAVENofPROPHECY with the photos!
Give it up fellas.

Miaoww
09-26-2010, 04:17 PM
Palmer was awful today. The Panthers could have 6 picks if their defensive backs and linebackers could catch.

BlindSite
09-26-2010, 04:33 PM
Palmer was awful today. The Panthers could have 6 picks if their defensive backs and linebackers could catch.

I tend to agree, Palmer didn't look sharp at all today.

Brodeur
09-26-2010, 04:37 PM
If it wasn't for racking up yards on the Pats during garbage time, Palmer's stats would be borderline league worst, and yet he still hasn't been pointed out as the piece of crap that he's been for over a year now.

B-Dawk
09-26-2010, 04:37 PM
havent been able to catch any bengals games yet, has the oline been giving him enough protection?

yourfavestoner
09-26-2010, 06:31 PM
Palmer's best trait at this point is that he throws the ball hard enough for opposing defenders to drop it.

LonghornsLegend
09-26-2010, 06:58 PM
Cincy has as many weapons as any team in the NFL. Right now Carson has been holding us back. He needs to find his rhythm, maybe he will, maybe he won't. So far he's been disappointing due to accuracy troubles and poor decisions.


I'm glad you at least admit it now, I remember you saying getting TO was going to put him back to a top 10 QB as he was before and I couldn't have disagreed more. Palmer has been really bad for a long time now.

Pat Sims 90
09-26-2010, 08:26 PM
havent been able to catch any bengals games yet, has the oline been giving him enough protection?

No Pass protection sucks too but, even when they give him time he makes terriable throws.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-26-2010, 08:27 PM
Cincy has as many weapons as any team in the NFL. Right now Carson has been holding us back. He needs to find his rhythm, maybe he will, maybe he won't. So far he's been disappointing due to accuracy troubles and poor decisions.

No, but that wasn't the case throughout his career. You're defense stunk and you guys kept drafting and signing felons. You put him and his talent on a good team, and he would do so well. He is a great QB.

Pat Sims 90
09-26-2010, 08:31 PM
No, but that wasn't the case throughout his career. You're defense stunk and you guys kept drafting and signing felons. You put him and his talent on a good team, and he would do so well. He is a great QB.

LOL have u watched Palmer play this year?

NY+Giants=NYG
09-26-2010, 08:33 PM
No, but that wasn't the case throughout his career. You're defense stunk and you guys kept drafting and signing felons. You put him and his talent on a good team, and he would do so well. He is a great QB.

LOL have u watched Palmer play this year?

No this year, however I was talking in general in his career. The guy is a talented QB who probably would have done better on another team.

Pat Sims 90
09-26-2010, 08:35 PM
[QUOTE=Pat Sims 90;2311235]

No this year, however I was talking in general in his career. The guy is a talented QB who probably would have done better on another team.

Actually watch a game this year and ur mind will change fast he has no accuracy and makes very poor decisons and that is going back to last year too. Plus he loves to stare down anybody he is throwing to now.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-26-2010, 08:37 PM
[QUOTE=Boss+Manning=Banning;2311236]

Actually watch a game this year and ur mind will change fast he has no accuracy and makes very poor decisons and that is going back to last year too.

Yeah if we get it here in NJ. Has your OC or QB coach changed?

soybean
09-26-2010, 08:37 PM
Dude let's face it... Carson WOULD be a top 3 qb if it weren't for Kimo Van Olhoffen.

KVO had a knack for injuring qbs by going low.

It was possible the Bengals would have made/won the superbowl that year.

Pat Sims 90
09-26-2010, 08:38 PM
[QUOTE=Pat Sims 90;2311238]

Yeah if we get it here in NJ. Has your OC or QB coach changed?

Nope same since he came here.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-26-2010, 08:39 PM
[QUOTE=Boss+Manning=Banning;2311239]

Nope same since he came here.

Maybe the injuries and stuff are catching up. I liked him when you guys had Housh and Johnson and such. Your offense was good, and it was your defense and felon issues that were a big problem. Maybe he is declining who knows.

Basileus777
09-26-2010, 08:40 PM
A knee injury 4 years ago is no excuse for Palmer's inability to read defenses or make accurate throws. He's had plenty of time to fix his mechanics and get his head straight.

Brodeur
09-26-2010, 08:40 PM
Dude let's face it... Carson WOULD be a top 3 qb if it weren't for Kimo Van Olhoffen.

KVO had a knack for injuring qbs by going low.

It was possible the Bengals would have made/won the superbowl that year.

Tom Brady handled it a hell of a lot better at an older age, so don't just blame KVO for Palmer's complete downfall.

soybean
09-26-2010, 08:54 PM
Then what do you guys attribute it to? No one just starts sucking for no reason.

JeffSamardzijaIRISH
09-26-2010, 09:21 PM
Maybe he just lost his passion to play and hasn't been putting in the work it takes to be a QB at the NFL level.

Bengals78
09-26-2010, 09:37 PM
Confidence. He lacks it.
He doesn't trust the players around him.

Bengalsrz
09-26-2010, 09:44 PM
Maybe he just lost his passion to play and hasn't been putting in the work it takes to be a QB at the NFL level.

Certainly not this. Nobody wants to win on this team more than Carson. The guy lives for football.

I hate sounding like I'm lining up excuses, but you simply cannot make a judgment about Palmer from these first 3 games.

3 of his 4 primary receivers are new to the system. Owens and Gresham didn't even have training camp to get in sync with him.

O-line is horrendous at pass blocking.

The weather conditions today were AWFUL. The game didn't even have audio for the first quarter and coverage kept getting cut off. Turf was completely torn up and players were slipping/dropping passes all throughout the game.

Bengalsrocket
09-27-2010, 05:23 AM
Certainly not this. Nobody wants to win on this team more than Carson. The guy lives for football.

I hate sounding like I'm lining up excuses, but you simply cannot make a judgment about Palmer from these first 3 games.

3 of his 4 primary receivers are new to the system. Owens and Gresham didn't even have training camp to get in sync with him.

O-line is horrendous at pass blocking.

The weather conditions today were AWFUL. The game didn't even have audio for the first quarter and coverage kept getting cut off. Turf was completely torn up and players were slipping/dropping passes all throughout the game.

He still made some bad decisions. I'm a Bengals fan, but trying to look at this objectively I think the majority of the blame lies on Palmer for his poor play. With that being said, I think Bob Bratkowski is also another huge part of this problem as well.

If I was in charge of this team, I would give Palmer another year under a new Offensive Coordinator before I start looking into a QB change. I truly believe every single player on our offense is being held back by Bratkowski.

bigbluedefense
09-27-2010, 09:23 AM
It's time to just let it be. Carson for whatever reason, isn't a good qb anymore. He is what he is.

Clarkpba
09-27-2010, 09:25 AM
As a Bengal fan I want Palmer to do well just as bad as anyone. With that said the problem with Palmer is the fact he is injured. If you remember two years ago when he hurt his elbow it was thought he would have to have Tommy John surgery. For a QB this is a death sentence to their career. The only one to ever comeback has been Jake Delhome and we see how that's working out.... It isn't. Palmer went to 5 different doctors till he found one that told him he didn't need the surgery. Due to the elbow being shot his form is taking a hit since he is trying to avoid pain and hurting his elbow further. All you need to do is step back and watch him throw and you'll see a lot of short-arming passes and on his deep balls they are slow looping rainbows and not sharp confident throws like they used to be.

What it boils down to is Palmer isn't confident in his own arm and he is scared of getting hurt. he has had two major injuries since his breakout seasons. He is still the best QB on the roster and gives the bengals the best chance to win just on his game knowledge alone.

yourfavestoner
09-27-2010, 10:09 AM
If they trotted Jordan out instead of Carson, would anybody even notice the difference at this point?

bigbluedefense
09-27-2010, 10:11 AM
I know Chad would never throw Carson under the bus, but I'm curious to see if TO calls him out. TO has never been shy to be honest, and you know eventually he's going to take a shot at Carson.

...
09-27-2010, 11:44 AM
Then what do you guys attribute it to? No one just starts sucking for no reason.

Injuries. His arm strength seems totally sapped. Which has probably damaged his confidence too.

RealityCheck
09-27-2010, 11:48 AM
Palmer for Jairus Byrd, straight swap...

The Bills would be benefited by it.

bigbluedefense
09-27-2010, 11:55 AM
Palmer for Jairus Byrd, straight swap...

The Bills would be benefited by it.

You know what's sad? The Bills would never make that trade.

That's how far Carson Palmer has fallen.

Rosebud
09-27-2010, 12:32 PM
You know what's sad? The Bills would never make that trade.

That's how far Carson Palmer has fallen.

Nor should they, they're a really young team and Byrd is a star for that secondary. They need a young QB who they'll have for years, no reason to give up a guy as young and promising as Byrd for a guy who's got a lot of wear and tear on his body, who's confidence is shot and isn't particularly young any more.

shinzo123
10-02-2010, 06:47 PM
If they trotted Jordan out instead of Carson, would anybody even notice the difference at this point?

yes, Jordan can run.

Monomach
10-02-2010, 08:02 PM
I know Chad would never throw Carson under the bus, but I'm curious to see if TO calls him out. TO has never been shy to be honest, and you know eventually he's going to take a shot at Carson.

He made it through a full season of Trent Edwards with a closed mouth.

Bucs_Rule
10-02-2010, 08:09 PM
Injuries. His arm strength seems totally sapped. Which has probably damaged his confidence too.

That is what shocked me. His arm strength is really bad. You'll sometimes see QBs start making a lot of dumb decisions or but not often the arm gives out when they aren't old.

BigBanger
10-04-2010, 04:02 AM
As a Bengal fan I want Palmer to do well just as bad as anyone. With that said the problem with Palmer is the fact he is injured. If you remember two years ago when he hurt his elbow it was thought he would have to have Tommy John surgery. For a QB this is a death sentence to their career. The only one to ever comeback has been Jake Delhome and we see how that's working out.... It isn't. Palmer went to 5 different doctors till he found one that told him he didn't need the surgery. Due to the elbow being shot his form is taking a hit since he is trying to avoid pain and hurting his elbow further. All you need to do is step back and watch him throw and you'll see a lot of short-arming passes and on his deep balls they are slow looping rainbows and not sharp confident throws like they used to be.

What it boils down to is Palmer isn't confident in his own arm and he is scared of getting hurt. he has had two major injuries since his breakout seasons. He is still the best QB on the roster and gives the bengals the best chance to win just on his game knowledge alone.
I went to a game last year and he still had the strongest arm I have ever seen in person, but it was noticeably... different... than it was in '07. His main problem is his accuracy. He has been missing guys BADLY. I mean, he's not even ******* close on a lot of his throws. I have been shocked on how / why he has been playing so average for the last several years.

He's not the same player he was in 2005 before the knee injury. Before the knee injury he was well on his way to being one of the elite QBs in the NFL. After that he took a bit of a decline, wasn't completely comfortable with his knee until midway through the '06 season. '07 started the trend of bad decisions and '08 was cut short due to the elbow. The last two years? He's looked completely mediocre. His arm isn't weak so much as inconsistent. It looks like he's able to get enough on it when he has to, but sometimes when he has poor mechanics, he'll throw a weak and inaccurate pass.

It's been a long time since we've seen Carson Palmer look like Carson Palmer. He really has turned into a shell of his former self.

Clarkpba
10-04-2010, 05:31 AM
I went to a game last year and he still had the strongest arm I have ever seen in person, but it was noticeably... different... than it was in '07. His main problem is his accuracy. He has been missing guys BADLY. I mean, he's not even ******* close on a lot of his throws. I have been shocked on how / why he has been playing so average for the last several years.

He's not the same player he was in 2005 before the knee injury. Before the knee injury he was well on his way to being one of the elite QBs in the NFL. After that he took a bit of a decline, wasn't completely comfortable with his knee until midway through the '06 season. '07 started the trend of bad decisions and '08 was cut short due to the elbow. The last two years? He's looked completely mediocre. His arm isn't weak so much as inconsistent. It looks like he's able to get enough on it when he has to, but sometimes when he has poor mechanics, he'll throw a weak and inaccurate pass.

It's been a long time since we've seen Carson Palmer look like Carson Palmer. He really has turned into a shell of his former self.

Part of the reason his mechanics are so bad is the fact he is short arming a lot of passes. Sports players that have arm injuries typically short arm throws to help keep the pain down. one of the down sides to this is throws being high or sailing. remember the quicker the ball comes out of the hand the less pressure it puts on the arm. I do agree his knee injury from the playoffs against Pittsburgh messed him up as well. He doesn't have the confidence to step into throws on occasion. Either way You'll never see the Palmer of '05 again. I still think he has the smarts to be a capable QB in the league just not an elite thrower.

ThePudge
10-04-2010, 04:34 PM
He looked good yesterday. Wasn't an elite performance but he seemed to gain a lot of confidence going downfield to T.O. I'm not saying he's back, but he was a completely different player than he was vs. Baltimore/Carolina. Aside from a fumble he did a much better job making decisions & protecting the ball.... It was the Browns....

Bengalsrocket
10-04-2010, 04:54 PM
Part of the reason his mechanics are so bad is the fact he is short arming a lot of passes. Sports players that have arm injuries typically short arm throws to help keep the pain down. one of the down sides to this is throws being high or sailing. remember the quicker the ball comes out of the hand the less pressure it puts on the arm. I do agree his knee injury from the playoffs against Pittsburgh messed him up as well. He doesn't have the confidence to step into throws on occasion. Either way You'll never see the Palmer of '05 again. I still think he has the smarts to be a capable QB in the league just not an elite thrower.

I'll concede the elbow talk, but can we get past the knee from half a decade ago? He came back the NEXT year and put up great numbers. He's not afraid to step up in the pocket. The reason he doesn't step up into the pocket is because his offensive line doesn't create one.

themaninblack
10-04-2010, 06:06 PM
He looked good yesterday. Wasn't an elite performance but he seemed to gain a lot of confidence going downfield to T.O. I'm not saying he's back, but he was a completely different player than he was vs. Baltimore/Carolina. Aside from a fumble he did a much better job making decisions & protecting the ball.... It was the Browns....

Even if it was the Browns I think he shut a lot of people up with what he did yesterday. The protection was a little bit better this week so he had time to actually get the ball off before getting hit and he was making some incredible throws as a result. A lot of people want to put all of the problems with our offense on Palmer but that is simply not the case. Sure, he's not perfect every single time and he probably has lost some arm strength, but Palmer is the least of our worries at this point. We need to be more concerned with keeping him upright and having our receiving targets on the right page.

CC.SD
10-04-2010, 07:23 PM
Where is Andre Smith is what I want to know.

PoopSandwich
10-04-2010, 07:30 PM
Carson played well yesterday... Our pass rush was pretty pathetic and TO was running good routes over the middle.

Bengals78
10-04-2010, 11:26 PM
Where is Andre Smith is what I want to know.

Marvin's dog house.
It really seems like Marvin is letting his "teaching a lesson" to Andre about showing up in camp is hurting the team.

TonyGfortheTD
10-04-2010, 11:44 PM
They need to start by firing Bratkowski.

Brown Leader
10-05-2010, 12:20 AM
Then what do you guys attribute it to? No one just starts sucking for no reason.

Dante Culpepper. Even before the knees.

But Carson definitely no longer has an elite arm, apparently due to the elbow, sad really. He went from the main reason the Bengals were competitive to now the weak link. Arm strength and mechanics are all slower-where now he's much more a touch passer. I'm figuring his changed arm more than the deterioration of the line dictated the switch to the ball control running offense. I think it's a good bet the Bengals do some serious QB shopping after the season.

You could point to the running game & turnovers as to why the Bengals lost to the Browns but it wasn't that long ago that Carson could easily carve up opponents.

Hines
10-05-2010, 09:25 AM
SI.com's Peter King writes that the Bengals might think about cutting Carson Palmer after the season.

It's just speculation on King's part, but he points out that the Bengals could get out from under the $53 million owed to Palmer over the next four years without it counting anything against the salary cap. Palmer's declining play certainly makes it a possibility.


-Rotoworld

ThePudge
10-05-2010, 10:13 AM
Peter King always has the most grim forecast possible for the Bengals. I wouldn't put ANY weight in that. It's Palmer's team. As some have touched on, he played extremely well this past week and has a lot of success with his downfield accuracy. His OL needs to do better in pass pro & his receivers can't make mistakes, but as long as Carson's got a bit of time and his receivers on the same page he'll be a good QB still. The people that claim he's lost everything don't really know too much about the Bengals team or Carson.

You don't replace a good starting QB that easily. Dan LeFevour is currently the backup & has some potential but he has no NFL experience and questionable arm strength. My bet: Palmer is the Bengals starting QB next season and probably the season after that, at least.

Hines
10-05-2010, 11:53 AM
If the Bengals do not make the playoffs, I could see them taking one of the big 3 if they were available with their pick. A) just in case Palmer does get cut and b) just in case Palmer gets hurt again. Just some ideas that I thought of. Not that any of it will come true.

themaninblack
10-05-2010, 01:22 PM
Marvin's dog house.
It really seems like Marvin is letting his "teaching a lesson" to Andre about showing up in camp is hurting the team.

He did play more yesterday than he has all season even though he really didn't look all that good, IMO.

nepg
10-05-2010, 04:50 PM
Carson just seems slower in his decision making. I think that and the OL is the only real difference from when he was a dominant young QB. I don't see how they can speed up his decision making at this point...they just need to do a better job of protecting him and giving him good options underneath to protect the ball.

P-L
10-10-2010, 03:32 PM
He was just awful today. He definitely lost the game for the Bengals. I don't care if he looked good against the Browns, he's not getting the job done and the Bengals really need to do something with him.

Bengals78
10-10-2010, 03:34 PM
He was just awful today. He definitely lost the game for the Bengals. I don't care if he looked good against the Browns, he's not getting the job done and the Bengals really need to do something with him.

Two picks were tipped passes.
Our WR had a bunch of drops.
Our OLine cant block with any consistency.

Was he great today? No. But this was not all on him.
Our defense could have decided to not suck in the last few minutes too.
Or give up 60 yard runs to EARNEST ******* GRAHAM

crites09
10-10-2010, 03:36 PM
Two picks were tipped passes.
Our WR had a bunch of drops.
Our OLine cant block with any consistency.

Was he great today? No. But this was not all on him.
Our defense could have decided to not suck in the last few minutes too.
Or give up 60 yard runs to EARNEST ******* GRAHAM

Yea dropped passes are one thing, but making bad throws in tight coverage when the game is on the line is another thing... this loss is on Palmer

the_legend_killer
10-10-2010, 03:36 PM
What can be done? Start LeFevour.

Morton
10-10-2010, 03:36 PM
You can't expect to win every game with shutdown defense. At some point the quarterback has to make some plays. Palmer just isn't doing anything noteworthy anymore. He's a liability for the team.

P-L
10-10-2010, 03:44 PM
Two picks were tipped passes.
Our WR had a bunch of drops.
Our OLine cant block with any consistency.

Was he great today? No. But this was not all on him.
Our defense could have decided to not suck in the last few minutes too.
Or give up 60 yard runs to EARNEST ******* GRAHAM
The one interception was a pass that no NFL quarterback should ever throw. Most rookies don't even make throws that bad.

Bengals78
10-10-2010, 03:46 PM
The one interception was a pass that no NFL quarterback should ever throw. Most rookies don't even make throws that bad.

Yeah. But what can ya do?
He only trusts one WR again...TO
Chad has pulled a disappearing act.

He gets hit every other pass.

We are royally screwed with our current coaching staff.

They squandered all that we had with Palmer.

Matthew Jones
10-10-2010, 03:54 PM
Tons of damage control in here - Palmer has played badly all season with the exception of the Browns game (who ranked 24th in the league in pass defense going into this week) and in garbage time once New England was manhandling Cincinnati 31-3. I understand he's done some good things for the franchise but this guy's been beat up over the years and just isn't the same quarterback anymore. He has trouble reading defenses (even pre-snap) and making decisions, and his accuracy is hit-or-miss.

The Bengals went out and tried to load up on weapons for Palmer and the offense has been a huge disappointment this year. I'm not saying they should bench him or anything, but it's certainly looking like time to start thinking about who's going to quarterback this team in the future. Carson is on the decline and will be 31 at the end of this season. In a league where passing numbers are going through the roof, Cincinnati is having a disappointing year through the air.

Another interesting note - Marvin Lewis is in the final year of his deal and I haven't heard anything about him being close to an extension. It's likely that his performance this season will dictate whether or not he's with the team going into the future. He doesn't have the final say on personnel decisions, but he's compiled a 58-58-1 record in eight seasons, failing to win a single playoff game. If the Bengals make a change there, they could also target a new franchise quarterback.

Smooth Criminal
10-10-2010, 03:55 PM
Palmer was terrible today. I'm just waiting for the wideouts to start causing trouble.

Bengals78
10-10-2010, 03:58 PM
Palmer was terrible today. I'm just waiting for the wideouts to start causing trouble.

TO wont, he is still getting his.
Chad cant because all he has done this year is drop catches at the most crucial times.

Smooth Criminal
10-10-2010, 04:04 PM
They can. Neither one likes losing.

Bengals78
10-10-2010, 04:05 PM
They can. Neither one likes losing.

If Chad does, he wont be a Bengal next year. He only has himself to blame now.

LonghornsLegend
10-10-2010, 04:09 PM
Two picks were tipped passes.
Our WR had a bunch of drops.
Our OLine cant block with any consistency.

Was he great today? No. But this was not all on him.
Our defense could have decided to not suck in the last few minutes too.
Or give up 60 yard runs to EARNEST ******* GRAHAM


You've really got to stop making excuses for him, he was terrible today. But I guess it's never going to be his fault unless the Defense pitches a shutout, nobody drops a pass, and Benson goes over 125 a game.

Bengals78
10-10-2010, 04:12 PM
You've really got to stop making excuses for him, he was terrible today. But I guess it's never going to be his fault unless the Defense pitches a shutout, nobody drops a pass, and Benson goes over 125 a game.

Im not making excuses. He did not play good today. I have said it over and over. But it wasn't ALL his fault.
The team around him quits and he feels the pressure to do it all and looks like a **** head doing so.

LonghornsLegend
10-10-2010, 04:54 PM
Im not making excuses. He did not play good today. I have said it over and over. But it wasn't ALL his fault.
The team around him quits and he feels the pressure to do it all and looks like a **** head doing so.

Well yea, there are 11 people on each side of the ball, when is it ever ALL the QB's fault anytime? You could say that for any QB, any time they have a bad game. I just don't see the point in doing so.

Bengalsrocket
10-11-2010, 02:16 AM
Well yea, there are 11 people on each side of the ball, when is it ever ALL the QB's fault anytime? You could say that for any QB, any time they have a bad game. I just don't see the point in doing so.

The problem is that our passing game is bad all around. Pass protection blows, the receivers drop balls all day and Carson hasn't made a good decision yet this year.

I've defended Palmer up to today, but I'm about done with that. I still am not convinced it's his elbow or knee (I've seen none of that in all my time watching Palmer). He just doesn't make the right decisions.

But, on that last interception that gave the bucs the game, Palmer was only 1/3rd of the problem. One of the problems was Chad, who had two hands on that ball. it wasn't an easy catch, but it definitely looked like a ball he could catch. And the other problem was the play call. Our strengths yesterday were our running game, our punting team and our defense. Passing the ball was a poor decision.

Either way, I'll echo the sentiment that we need a new QB and if Marvin doesn't resign with us it could start pretty soon. However, I think Palmer will be the starting QB for the Bengals next year no matter what.

Ness
10-11-2010, 02:27 AM
We'll take him here in San Francisco.

TheMorningZoo
10-11-2010, 03:17 AM
I have always been a huge Carson Palmer fan even before he hit the NFL. When I got into watching CFB he was a soph at USC and broke his collarbone and pretty much sucked (as did USC at the time). Then the lights came on and he became the "prototype" for what an NFL Pocket Passer should be. Regardless he was looking to be "elite" and a top 5 QB a few years back, but due the all the injuries he has since turned to ****.

They have a lot of $ invested, but I think it might be time to part ways with him. Change of scenery might do him well. As mentioned a team like San Fran could use him, or maybe next year in Buffalo? I mean if your going to be drafting a QB they will have their fare share of bad games and maybe Carson can turn it around? I think at this point his supporting cast needs to be strong, but the Bengals AREN'T that bad-which is confusing? Good running game, solid WR core (yet old), and I don't know too much about the OL situation. I know obviously Smith was drafted, but the guy that took over last year has been a bright spot?

Oh well, I hope he can turn it around but it doesn't look like it. Hell, Kurt Warner had his fair share of downtime (Giants, early Card years) but he HAD already been a proven Winner which is something Carson is not.

Best situation is to land on a team with a good OL and maybe he can right the ship?

Addict
10-11-2010, 03:44 AM
He just seems like a different player since he hurt his knee.

Ness
10-11-2010, 04:00 AM
He just seems like a different player since he hurt his knee.

Perhaps that isn't the problem. He came back the following season and had a great campaign. Maybe it's slowly gotten worse as time has gone by.

brat316
10-11-2010, 05:45 AM
Didn't he hurt his elbow?

Addict
10-11-2010, 07:46 AM
Perhaps that isn't the problem. He came back the following season and had a great campaign. Maybe it's slowly gotten worse as time has gone by.

I didn't realize he had a good year since fighting back from it. Anyway he just seems less sure of himself, less calm.

brat316
10-11-2010, 08:56 AM
I didn't realize he had a good year since fighting back from it. Anyway he just seems less sure of himself, less calm.

Its not getting the elbow surgery...tommy John I believe.

yourfavestoner
10-11-2010, 10:11 AM
Palmer's problems are very similar to Drew Bledsoe's in that, if you don't have a perfect pocket and give him tons of room to work, his mechanics decline so rapidly that he can't be effective. He's not "sudden" in any of his movements. This wasn't a problem earlier in his career, when the Bengals had one of the best offensive lines in the NFL. But, after major injuries to his knee and elbow, and an offensive line that had to rebuilt, it's a huge issue.