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Geo
09-15-2008, 05:56 PM
I'm going to focus on two of the biggest games this weekend, first the early candidate for GOTY, the Chargers at Broncos:

Line of the week: "I blew it." -Ed Hochuli. Awful call by Guns McShowy, that was a clear fumble by Jay Cutler. Critics don't know wtf they are talking about, in all their Monday morning bitching, the only problem is that Hochuli blew his whistle too soon as opposed to letting the play develop as it should have. Still, the Chargers had two chances to stop the Broncos afterwards and they failed.

The two quarterbacks of that game, Jay Cutler of the Denver Broncos and Phillip Rivers of the San Diego Chargers, are a great bright spot for the game. Phenomenal future, especially with their respective teams giving each guy weapons to help him flourish (Eddie Royal looks great). The league needs more quality quarterbacks, and these two are growing and blossoming into two of the better ones in the league. Plus the rivalry developing thanks to playing in the same division is great, shades of Kelly and Marino imo.

Bad call of the week: Norv Turner calling out Ed Hochuli in the post-game. True to form for a classless, pouty ***** like him. Always bitching at the refs when things don't go his way. Funny how his vagina doesn't blow smoke when the calls go his way, including that very same premature whistle.

I never thought about LDT's age and years of workload when watching him play, but this past Sunday might have been the first time of that. Especially with the great play Darren Sproles has exhibited since late last season, and definitely on Sunday, as a contrast. It was an uncomfortable situation, as a long-time fan of LDT. But maybe it's all the toe injury, let's wait and see.

Huge win for the Broncos. I believe this is the youngest team Mike Shanahan has ever coached at Denver, if not in general, and a start like this is big. Getting back at the Chargers, who have dominated them the last two years, is all a potentially major confidence boost to this team for the rest of the season.

Now the Colts at the Vikings game:

Adrian Peterson is the best runningback in the league. He's on another level, the guy has "it" even more than LDT in his prime did.

Peyton Manning won that game, with strong contributions from Anthony Gonzalez (stud), Reggie Wayne, and the defense keeping the Vikings to six field goal attempts (the last of which they missed).

The Colts' offense in the 1st half: 0 points
The Colts' offense in the 2nd half: 18 points

Adrian Peterson in the 1st half: 14 rushes for 118 yards
Adrian Peterson in the 2nd half: 15 rushes for 42 yards

I guess now would be a good time to credit halftime adjustments, right or wrong.

Big win for the Colts, I think we saw the offense really/finally find its rhythm in the mid-third quarter. I was reminded a bit of the NY Giants' performance at Washington last year in Week 3, when they hadn't played too well up to that point (other than the offense in Week 1) of halftime with a deficit, staring at an 0-3 record. But they came together then and had a second half that exemplified their play for the rest of the season. And built on that for the rest of the season.

I dearly wish the Seahawks would offer their 3rd round pick for Marvin Harrison.

Colts' offensive line to finish the game:
LT- Charlie Johnson
LG- Steve Justice (R)
C- Jamey Richard (R)
RG- Daniel Federkiel (R)
RT- Ryan Diem

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-15-2008, 06:02 PM
God, finally SOMEONE posted a thoughts thread. I like these. Good job, I missed the SD-DEN game, but it does suck for the chargers it had to end that way. They did get more chances at the win though, but still, that has to hurt.


Not that I'm complaining, JAY CUTLER MVP

PS Where Shiver at?

CC.SD
09-15-2008, 06:14 PM
Some good thoughts. I don't know how you can blame Norv for calling out Hochuli though. If the game is played the way it's meant to be played, his team gets the win. Because of Ed's bad whistle, he loses. It's incredibly frustrating and what's more, he's totally in the right.

That said, GOTY so far for sure, and if we see a better one it'll be a great time, great time. Rivers and Cutler were just throwing thunderbolts the entire day.

Say whatever you want about LT, he's injured. Injuries happen. He'll be back.

I'd support Cutler for MVP right now. It's pretty clear. However, it's just week 2. Far too early for any kind of season awards.

M.O.T.H.
09-15-2008, 06:20 PM
I'd hold off the mvp talk right now. haha. As for Cutler, he's been sharp but, there is still an entire season ahead. Both defenses he's played had awful showings...especially, the Chargers who have a garbage zone defense that they ran again and again and again. Seriously, they played Jammer 10 yards off the entire game and Cutler would just hit a wide open Marshall on a simple curl over and over. That was just embarassing...all of Jammer's tackles came on these little curls to a wide open Marshall. They have a lot of work to do because, they're not going to do anything this year w/ that swiss cheese, over conservative zone, the way it is now.

CC.SD
09-15-2008, 06:29 PM
I'd hold off the mvp talk right now. haha. As for Cutler, he's been sharp but, there is still an entire season ahead. Both defenses he's played had awful showings...especially, the Chargers who have a garbage zone defense that they ran again and again and again. Seriously, they played Jammer 10 yards off the entire game and Cutler would just hit a wide open Marshall on a simple curl over and over. That was just embarassing...all of Jammer's tackles came on these little curls to a wide open Marshall. They have a lot of work to do because, they're not going to do anything this year w/ that swiss cheese, over conservative zone, the way it is now.

No kidding, it takes a real brain trust to keep running that scheme instead of just letting our corners play man like they were born to. Then again, our rush was so bad I'm not convinced anything would have helped. Either way I want Cottrell's head...I'd put it in Hochuli's bed.

vidae
09-15-2008, 06:40 PM
Ed Hochuli is as good as they come, the best in the business. He made a mistake. Mistakes happen, but he owned up to it. He walked up to Norv and said it's my fault, I blew the call. Who does that these days? No one does, but he was a man and owned up to his mistake when it happened.

Sucks that a team wins or loses because of something like that, it really does, but I think Norv was out of line here. You can be pissed, you can be upset, but you still need to be a professional. Just my opinion.

CC.SD
09-15-2008, 06:42 PM
Ed Hochuli is as good as they come, the best in the business. He made a mistake. Mistakes happen, but he owned up to it. He walked up to Norv and said it's my fault, I blew the call. Who does that these days? No one does, but he was a man and owned up to his mistake when it happened.

Sucks that a team wins or loses because of something like that, it really does, but I think Norv was out of line here. You can be pissed, you can be upset, but you still need to be a professional. Just my opinion on the subject.

It's not like Norv cursed him out. He said it was unacceptable and that Hoch admitted to him that he had blown the call. Both those things are true, it's not like he went after the guy's nuts.

Edit: identical post count and rep? nice.

MaxV
09-15-2008, 07:01 PM
I wouldn't call Federkeil a rookie. I mean, yes, this is the first year he actually saw game action, but he has been with the Colts for multiple years.

With that said, Colts won't go far with that O-Line. Ugoh, Saturday and Lilja are valuable.

bored of education
09-15-2008, 08:01 PM
NO mention of how bad the chiefs suck. + rep

Bigburt63
09-15-2008, 08:09 PM
Ed Hochuli is as good as they come, the best in the business. He made a mistake. Mistakes happen, but he owned up to it. He walked up to Norv and said it's my fault, I blew the call. Who does that these days? No one does, but he was a man and owned up to his mistake when it happened.

Sucks that a team wins or loses because of something like that, it really does, but I think Norv was out of line here. You can be pissed, you can be upset, but you still need to be a professional. Just my opinion.

As easy as it is to point to that one mistake as costing them the game, there are hundreds of moments in each game that if tweaked could have changed the result of the game. clearly the chargers got jobbed in this one, but they had other opportunities to win it at the same time.

BeerBaron
09-15-2008, 09:41 PM
I dearly wish the Seahawks would offer their 3rd round pick for Marvin Harrison.


i look a little smart now eh? lol

Under. Sounds strange, I know, but I think Wayne and Gonzalez are going to establish themselves as Manning's new favorite target combo. Add in Clark getting a lot of passes his way as well and an aging Marvin might drop to a 4th option in the passing game there...... If he's still got it, all the better for the Colts I guess, but I don't know if he comes out and just explodes as a still great WR.


http://www.draftcountdown.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1195946&postcount=110

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-15-2008, 09:47 PM
It's not like Norv cursed him out. He said it was unacceptable and that Hoch admitted to him that he had blown the call. Both those things are true, it's not like he went after the guy's nuts.

Edit: identical post count and rep? nice.

I agree, I thought Norv had the right to be upset and handled it well. Of course he was going to be asked about officiating and he spoke his mind without attacking Hochuili.

On another note, it's really great Hochuili owned up to the mistake. In the NBA, Norv would be fined, and David Stern would protect the official at all costs. And Hochuili would have never even had to explain himself.

defensiveback23
09-15-2008, 10:03 PM
I never thought about LDT's age and years of workload when watching him play, but this past Sunday might have been the first time of that. Especially with the great play Darren Sproles has exhibited since late last season, and definitely on Sunday, as a contrast. It was an uncomfortable situation, as a long-time fan of LDT. But maybe it's all the toe injury, let's wait and see.


I'm surprised nobody else has commented on this. LT has never really had injury issues before and they are a little alarming now that he is getting older. In the last few games he has played in he has been hurt with two different injuries. Hopefully there isn't a correlation between the injuries and his age/work.

yourfavestoner
09-15-2008, 10:11 PM
I'm surprised nobody else has commented on this. LT has never really had injury issues before and they are a little alarming now that he is getting older. In the last few games he has played in he has been hurt with two different injuries. Hopefully there isn't a correlation between the injuries and his age/work.

I was saying it all offseason. He's due for a down year.

CC.SD
09-15-2008, 10:30 PM
I was saying it all offseason. He's due for a down year.

Yeah, he's been due for quite a while. He's got an injury right now, it'll heal up and Rivers can shoulder the load in the meantime.

Xenos
09-15-2008, 10:37 PM
I'm surprised nobody else has commented on this. LT has never really had injury issues before and they are a little alarming now that he is getting older. In the last few games he has played in he has been hurt with two different injuries. Hopefully there isn't a correlation between the injuries and his age/work.
Dude, he had a groin injury in 2004 and a rib injury in 2005. He just never had a major injury before. I'm not sure the toe injury qualifies as one yet, though we have been plagued by toe injuries (Parker, Gates, etc).

Dam8610
09-15-2008, 10:37 PM
I dearly wish the Seahawks would offer their 3rd round pick for Marvin Harrison.

On most things regarding the Colts we agree, but I could not disagree with your assessment of Marvin Harrison more. Is his production down? Yes, but really, the past couple of weeks is the first time Peyton and Marvin have worked together since last October, and it seems like their timing is a little off. He still draws the opposing team's #1 CB (and he's gone up against a couple of good ones), and he's still getting open for the most part. I think we'll see some vintage Marvin very soon, it doesn't look like he's lost a thing physically.

yourfavestoner
09-15-2008, 10:42 PM
On most things regarding the Colts we agree, but I could not disagree with your assessment of Marvin Harrison more. Is his production down? Yes, but really, the past couple of weeks is the first time Peyton and Marvin have worked together since last October, and it seems like their timing is a little off. He still draws the opposing team's #1 CB (and he's gone up against a couple of good ones), and he's still getting open for the most part. I think we'll see some vintage Marvin very soon, it doesn't look like he's lost a thing physically.

It's not that he draws the other teams best CB. It's because the Colts line him up at flanker on the right side of the field 90% of the time. Most teams usually play their best CB at left corner and rarely move him around. So it's not that he's drawing him, it's just that they're lined up on the same side of the field the majority of plays.

Dam8610
09-15-2008, 10:50 PM
It's not that he draws the other teams best CB. It's because the Colts line him up at flanker on the right side of the field 90% of the time. Most teams usually play their best CB at left corner and rarely move him around. So it's not that he's drawing him, it's just that they're lined up on the same side of the field the majority of plays.

Could be, although I would think if teams saw Reggie Wayne and Anthony Gonzalez as bigger threats, they'd shuffle their lineup. As an example, in the game that's on right now, there have been a few times where the Eagles shifted Asante Samuel around to matchup with Terrell Owens. Having seen Leslie Frazier's coaching jobs, I doubt he's stupid enough to put his best corner on a guy who he doesn't feel poses the biggest threat to his defense. I could understand the Bears doing it, they've put undrafted rookies with no game experience on Steve Smith in the playoffs, but Leslie Frazier is a smart coach who knows how to get the most out of his players.

yourfavestoner
09-15-2008, 10:58 PM
Could be, although I would think if teams saw Reggie Wayne and Anthony Gonzalez as bigger threats, they'd shuffle their lineup. As an example, in the game that's on right now, there have been a few times where the Eagles shifted Asante Samuel around to matchup with Terrell Owens. Having seen Leslie Frazier's coaching jobs, I doubt he's stupid enough to put his best corner on a guy who he doesn't feel poses the biggest threat to his defense. I could understand the Bears doing it, they've put undrafted rookies with no game experience on Steve Smith in the playoffs, but Leslie Frazier is a smart coach who knows how to get the most out of his players.

It's more prevalent for defenses that run a lot of man heavy schemes to move their CBs around. Zone teams like the Vikings usually leave their corners at RCB and LCB.

Most teams' best receivers are their split ends. Split ends play (usually) line up on the left side of the formation, drawing the double team of the RCB and the FS, leaving the LCB (usually the better one) to shut down the lesser flanker by himself on an island. Or at least that's how it theoretically works out, on a very very basic level.

Geo
09-15-2008, 11:20 PM
At this point, with how things are at the present, Harrison is a severely overpriced decoy. He's not the same deep threat he once was. Honestly, I'm not sure Devin Aromashodu couldn't bring just about the same thing to the table, at a fraction of the cost.

Hey, the Colts will keep Harrison for this season. He's going to break some records in all likelihood, finish second to Rice in some major categories, I suppose you could say he merits that for his years of service. But after this season, I couldn't cut him fast enough. Wayne and Gonzalez are the present, and Hall and Garcon are the future.

Is it cruel? Well, I'm being honest and realistic.

yourfavestoner
09-15-2008, 11:21 PM
At this point, with how things are at the present, Harrison is a severely overpriced decoy. He's not the same deep threat he once was. Honestly, I'm not sure Devin Aromashodu couldn't bring just about the same thing to the table, at a fraction of the cost.

Hey, the Colts will keep Harrison for this season. He's going to break some records in all likelihood, finish second to Rice in some major categories, I suppose you could say he merits that for his years of service. But after this season, I couldn't cut him fast enough. Wayne and Gonzalez are the future, and Hall and Garcon are budding talents who can flourish with Peyton.

Is it cruel? Well, I'm being honest and realistic.

You never know when he's going to pull a gun and start shooting people either. ;)

TitleTown088
09-15-2008, 11:23 PM
No Rodgers mention? How dare you. It's week two and #12=#4x3...Come on.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k317/steve7968/gladiator_3.jpg

Geo
09-15-2008, 11:23 PM
Polian is afraid to cut him, amirite? Just kidding.

I edited my post, to phrase the current situation better.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-15-2008, 11:24 PM
At this point, with how things are at the present, Harrison is a severely overpriced decoy. He's not the same deep threat he once was. Honestly, I'm not sure Devin Aromashodu couldn't bring just about the same thing to the table, at a fraction of the cost.

Well, Asomahodu wouldn't be one quarter the sort of decoy Harrison is, if that's how we're defining Marvin.

Geo
09-15-2008, 11:25 PM
No Rodgers mention? How dare you. It's week two and #12=#4x3...Come on.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k317/steve7968/gladiator_3.jpg
For you:

Double take of the week: The Lions came back??? 25-24? Seriously, I couldn't believe it when I saw the sports ticker. But then Jon Kitna remembered he was Jon Kitna and the Packers won big.

Geo
09-15-2008, 11:27 PM
Well, Asomahodu wouldn't be one quarter the sort of decoy Harrison is, if that's how we're defining Marvin.
Harrison is occupying the attention of the left cornerback. Aromashodu couldn't do the same? I doubt they would let him run free, he has deep speed.

Neither would be double covered, ie. have a safety high, granted.

doingthisinsteadofwork
09-15-2008, 11:27 PM
So Chargers fans how does it feel to be winless?

Geo
09-15-2008, 11:28 PM
Chargers were 1-3 to start last season, they are slow starters. :p

619
09-15-2008, 11:31 PM
So Chargers fans how does it feel to be winless?

We can now say this with some confidence. :D

TitleTown088
09-15-2008, 11:33 PM
For you:

Double take of the week: The Lions came back??? 25-24? Seriously, I couldn't believe it when I saw the sports ticker. But then Jon Kitna remembered he was Jon Kitna and the Packers won big.
http://www.kruufm.com/files/61/cowbell_skit.jpg

Needs more...




Rodgers.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-15-2008, 11:34 PM
Harrison is occupying the attention of the left cornerback. Aromashodu couldn't do the same? I doubt they would let him run free, he has deep speed.

I'd say that's a pretty simplistic view. Cornerback assignments are just one part of being a decoy, especially when defensive coordinators have long standing histories of being burned by Harrison.

Geo
09-15-2008, 11:36 PM
Watching things now, they really aren't that different from last year (when Harrison was gone). Except for the Bears giving Harrison some slants in last week's game, but they wised up to that.

TitleTown088
09-15-2008, 11:36 PM
So Chargers fans how does it feel to be winless?

We can now say this with some confidence.

If I were a raiders fan talking smack, I'd stop, pronto. It's embarrassing for everyone involved. You can say nothing with confidence, Al Davis owns your franchise.

yourfavestoner
09-15-2008, 11:37 PM
http://www.kruufm.com/files/61/cowbell_skit.jpg

Needs more...




Rodgers.

Brett who? ;)

Geo
09-15-2008, 11:39 PM
Rodgers can really deliver the ball on the run/out of the pocket. It's a startling addition to his game. He's got a great cast of players to play with, especially in the way of "weapons," and he has done a good job of working with them.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-15-2008, 11:39 PM
If I were a raiders fan talking smack, I'd stop, pronto. It's embarrassing for everyone involved. You can say nothing with confidence, Al Davis owns your franchise.

Everyone should be handling us with kid gloves. The only thing keeping us from burning this ************ down is that other teams suck too. Smack is keeping us sane.

Dam8610
09-15-2008, 11:59 PM
At this point, with how things are at the present, Harrison is a severely overpriced decoy. He's not the same deep threat he once was. Honestly, I'm not sure Devin Aromashodu couldn't bring just about the same thing to the table, at a fraction of the cost.

Hey, the Colts will keep Harrison for this season. He's going to break some records in all likelihood, finish second to Rice in some major categories, I suppose you could say he merits that for his years of service. But after this season, I couldn't cut him fast enough. Wayne and Gonzalez are the present, and Hall and Garcon are the future.

Is it cruel? Well, I'm being honest and realistic.

I really think that where Marvin is at right now is not where he'll be in a month, or even after the bye. His timing is a little off, but he's still running good routes, and he's been open deep when the OL has held up long enough for a play to develop and he's had a deep route, which hasn't been often. Excellent example of this, in Sunday's game, the Colts had a 3rd and 8, and Marvin had a comeback pattern. The Marvin we all know and enjoy watching would run the pattern 10 yards deep, cut back, and make the catch a little in front of the first down marker. The Marvin that was playing last Sunday ran the pattern about 7-8 yards deep, cut back too soon, had about a 6 yard pattern in total, and gave the CB time to react, which he did, breaking up the throw. That's a mental error, and IMO it would signify that his timing is a little off. I think he and Peyton will get back in sync sooner rather than later, and when they do, the passing game is going to be even more deadly.

Geo
09-16-2008, 12:28 AM
That's a very good point, Dam. I hope Harrison contributes in a big way as the season progresses and in the playoffs as well hopefully.

But for the time being, my expectations lie with Wayne, Gonzalez, and Clark. I'd rather Peyton focus his attention on them.

And also passing the ball to Addai and Rhodes on short routes. I don't know why, but the Colts have practically abandoned that these first two games. Uh, Kenton Keith isn't here anymore, it's okay to pass the ball to backs on short routes. Especially in lieu of a struggling running game.

XxXdragonXxX
09-16-2008, 03:09 AM
I dearly wish the Seahawks would offer their 3rd round pick for Marvin Harrison.



Sorry, but it looks like the answer to the Seahawks WR problem is....









Koren Robinson!













no seriously......http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/football/379264_robinson16.html

BlindSite
09-16-2008, 03:20 AM
Adrian Peterson is the best runningback in the league. He's on another level, the guy has "it" even more than LDT in his prime did.
As a downhill between the tackles runner you have no argument there, however as an outside guy and as a receiver All Day can't even hold Tomlinson's jock strap, he can't even hold Brian Westbrook's.

I know the position is called running back and he's almost certainly the best downhill runner in the league, he can't catch, can't block and can't run routes anywhere near as well as Tomlinson or Steven Jackson.

Its easy to put him higher on a pedestal when one of the best running back's of all time is struggling with injuries and his [LT2] former competition for MVP, pre-injury is on the worst team in the NFL.

Peterson still needs to be more consistent with his moving the chains too, for all of his explosive ability I wouldn't want him to be my back to lean on with 3 minutes to go up by three trying to run down the clock. The big 43% stat hurts him a lot, as in number of carries he gets 4 or more yards. and he's far, far away from being better than LT was.

CC.SD
09-16-2008, 11:55 AM
Bizarre to read that Geo couldn't cut Marvin fast enough. The season is young, he'll find some production dude. Don't abandon Marvin yet!

BTW it is insane how fast this board turns on LT. It happened last year and it's happening now. The guy is not 100% and he's admitted as much. No respect.

Addict
09-16-2008, 12:35 PM
Bizarre to read that Geo couldn't cut Marvin fast enough. The season is young, he'll find some production dude. Don't abandon Marvin yet!

BTW it is insane how fast this board turns on LT. It happened last year and it's happening now. The guy is not 100% and he's admitted as much. No respect.

hey I still believe in LT, however he's not getting any younger. Nobody 'turned' on him, he just hasn't looked like himself so far, I hope he can get back on track. But I doubt you'll ever see anyone say "LT sucks" on these boards, at least not without getting slaughtered by the rest of the posters.

CC.SD
09-16-2008, 01:51 PM
So Chargers fans how does it feel to be winless?

It sucks. But our next three games are Jets, Oakland, Miami, so I'm thinking we'll rebound.

on LT: he's just a slow starter, it's really lame actually. 2006 when he won the MVP he didn't break the century mark for the first 4 games. Last year wasn't much better. Throw in the injury, and well...things need to change in SD. These slow starts are killing me. But then again, we're 2 plays from 2-0, Rivers is playing out of his skull and our leading tackler is halfway back, so I'm more optimistic than most of San Diego.

LonghornsLegend
09-16-2008, 02:02 PM
The Chargers/Broncos game did have a bad call but people are spoiled now, think back ten years ago when there was no instant replay and we just had to rely on the refs calls, if you look back in history there are hundreds of games that were won and lost on the wrong call by a ref so things like that used to happen...I understand we have replay to fix those things now but its no travesty, its human error and it used to happen quite a bit.


Great write up Geo, I fully agree with the Cutler/Rivers talk, that is going to be a great rivalry for a long time, both guys are great and I think both end up playing for a super bowl.

Addict
09-16-2008, 03:41 PM
The Chargers/Broncos game did have a bad call but people are spoiled now, think back ten years ago when there was no instant replay and we just had to rely on the refs calls, if you look back in history there are hundreds of games that were won and lost on the wrong call by a ref so things like that used to happen...I understand we have replay to fix those things now but its no travesty, its human error and it used to happen quite a bit.


Great write up Geo, I fully agree with the Cutler/Rivers talk, that is going to be a great rivalry for a long time, both guys are great and I think both end up playing for a super bowl.

I definately look forward to this little fued between Cutler and Rivers growing as they get better.

other than that, I gotta say I think it's unfair for the ref who made the call (I don't feel like looking up his name, but you know who I'm talking about) to catch so much criticism over this. Coming from Europe, I'm used to soccer refs and you don't wanna know how many bad calls are made in soccer. More often than not these mistakes (undeserved penalties, ejections etc.) really make a huge difference towards the final score. The big difference is that in soccer, there's a vast understanding that being a referee is a tough job where human mistakes are made. I'm not excusing the call, it was poor judgement, but to get THIS much crap poured over him isn't fair. Yeah, he messed up. At least he was honest enough not to lie about it, or to start the "I call it as I see it" BS, he screwed up and took responsiblity.
For the NFL to punish him for it is a gross overreaction. I understand Turner isn't happy about it, but the problem ultimately doesn't lie with the ref here, he knew he messed up. The problem should be sought and found in the rulebook, in which there isn't any room for a ref to overturn his decision after the replay. Either change the rules or stick with you refs, don't punish a ref for being unable by sports law to overturn his own decision.

Sorry for the wall of text.

BlindSite
09-16-2008, 04:06 PM
and yet, after his rookie year, tomlinson gained less than 3.6 yards 50% of the time. i don't see where geo suggested that AD was better than LT in his prime, only that he has more "it", which are completely different. he further suggested that AD is the best running back in the league "right now" rendering any argument about tomlinson (who couldn't even average 3yp against one of the worst run defenses in the nfl) or steven jackson (who hasn't been able to break 60 yards in a single game thus far) or pretty much anyone else irrelevant.

I feel the "it" factor is the element of being able to take a ball the distance on any play and make what you'd think is impossible, possible.

Until AP puts up 31 touchdowns in a calender year, or looks capable of doing the same, he's doesn't have more of anything than LT did in his prime, except power.

bored of education
09-16-2008, 04:07 PM
Last year I was saying how their was no hope with these young QBs. we have some of the best young Qb crop in a while. Cutler, Big Ben, Eli, Rivers, Rodgers. those 5 qbs, and Stafford next year with the Chiefs will bring QBing into the 2000teens with great success. Godd work younger QB's you make me smiles.

Addict
09-16-2008, 04:27 PM
Last year I was saying how their was no hope with these young QBs. we have some of the best young Qb crop in a while. Cutler, Big Ben, Eli, Rivers, Rodgers. those 5 qbs, and Stafford next year with the Chiefs will bring QBing into the 2000teens with great success. Godd work younger QB's you make me smiles.

agreed. Maybe, finally we're entering an era with more than 2 great QB's once again.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-16-2008, 04:33 PM
I think there are more than 2 great QBs right now, we're just spoiled because Brady and Manning aren't just great, they're all time great.

yo123
09-16-2008, 04:38 PM
I feel the "it" factor is the element of being able to take a ball the distance on any play and make what you'd think is impossible, possible.

Until AP puts up 31 touchdowns in a calender year, or looks capable of doing the same, he's doesn't have more of anything than LT did in his prime, except power.

Ummm...Peterson is a threat to take it the distance on any play. And his lack of TD's is because of Tarvaris Jackson and only Tarvaris Jackson. You can only break so many 40 yard touchdown runs.

LT has always had at least a decent passing game to take some pressure off him, the Vikings have the worst passing game in the league and he is averageing 5.5 YPC right now.

The torch has been passed, LT was on top for a long time, now it's Peterson...until his legs fall off from having to carry this team on his back.

brat316
09-16-2008, 04:44 PM
Week 2 was so amazing, OT games, close games, blow out games, Broncos going for 2. And the MNF blowout games and a grind it out game for SNF.

There is no way Week 3 can top week 2.

CC.SD
09-16-2008, 05:41 PM
LT has always had at least a decent passing game to take some pressure off him, the Vikings have the worst passing game in the league and he is averageing 5.5 YPC right now.

The torch has been passed, LT was on top for a long time, now it's Peterson...until his legs fall off from having to carry this team on his back.

Uh, no. See 01,02,03 for LT putting up record breaking numbers with the worst passing game in the league. Not to mention probably the worst O-line.

Peterson has not done nearly enough to supplant LT. You're just being incredibly myopic.

ChezPower4
09-16-2008, 05:57 PM
Ummm...Peterson is a threat to take it the distance on any play. And his lack of TD's is because of Tarvaris Jackson and only Tarvaris Jackson. You can only break so many 40 yard touchdown runs.

LT has always had at least a decent passing game to take some pressure off him, the Vikings have the worst passing game in the league and he is averageing 5.5 YPC right now.

The torch has been passed, LT was on top for a long time, now it's Peterson...until his legs fall off from having to carry this team on his back.

I don't see how Jackson is keeping Peterson from scoring TD's? If Peterson was as good as you say he is (better than LT) then he would be scoring TD's and helping your Team WIN games, which is really the only stat that counts right now. The Vikings as a whole offense are not getting the job done in the red zone for the second straight week. IMO they would've had a chance to beat Green Bay and they would've beat the Colts if they had scored some TD's instead of settling for FG's. Peterson needs to score more TD's in the red zone to take LT's spot of best RB in the league.

yo123
09-16-2008, 06:07 PM
Uh, no. See 01,02,03 for LT putting up record breaking numbers with the worst passing game in the league. Not to mention probably the worst O-line.

Peterson has not done nearly enough to supplant LT. You're just being incredibly myopic.

LOL. The Chargers passing game was never even remotely close to as bad as this Vikings passing game is.

Anyway this has no relevance to who is the best right now anyway, AD ran for almost the same number of yards as LT last year in two less games, and had almost a FULL YARD higher YPC. This with the absolute worst passing game in the league.

This year he is leading the NFL in rushing, still with the worst passing game in the league and without his starting LT, with 5.5 YPC.

yo123
09-16-2008, 06:10 PM
I don't see how Jackson is keeping Peterson from scoring TD's? If Peterson was as good as you say he is (better than LT) then he would be scoring TD's and helping your Team WIN games, which is really the only stat that counts right now. The Vikings as a whole offense are not getting the job done in the red zone for the second straight week. IMO they would've had a chance to beat Green Bay and they would've beat the Colts if they had scored some TD's instead of settling for FG's. Peterson needs to score more TD's in the red zone to take LT's spot of best RB in the league.


Yeah, because it's so easy to run with 8 in the box and no threat of your QB even hitting a wide open WR.

Peterson was the reason we score any points at all in that game.

CC.SD
09-16-2008, 06:17 PM
LOL. The Chargers passing game was never even remotely close to as bad as this Vikings passing game is.

Anyway this has no relevance to who is the best right now anyway, AD ran for almost the same number of yards as LT last year in two less games, and had almost a FULL YARD higher YPC. This with the absolute worst passing game in the league.

LT barely played after halftime in a bunch of games last year, but whatever. And not too many people talk about it much these days, but young Brees' was awful; inaccurate and not a lot of power on his throws, plus no protection. We drafted Rivers' because Brees had shown very little to that point. LT was the entire offense...he even caught 100 passes in 03 in addition to 1600 rushing yards on 5.3 per with 17 total TDs.

You can't do an accurate comparison right now, because LT is playing hurt. AD is quite a talent, and probably 2nd, but you can't call him better.

P-L
09-16-2008, 06:18 PM
I don't see how Jackson is keeping Peterson from scoring TD's?
You don't see how a poor passing game affects a running back's performance? If you can't throw the ball then the opposing defense will stack the box with 8 or nine guys. On Sunday, the Vikings only made it to the red zone once. They ran three plays in the red zone. One rush by Peteson on first down and two passes by Tarvaris Jackson on second and third down. Jackson's second down pass was for 3 yards and his third down pass was incomplete. Now I'd say that was part Tarvaris' fault and part crappy play calling. You can't expect Peterson to bust off a 5-10 yard run every single time. No running back does that.

Against Green Bay the Vikings made it to the red zone three times. The first time they ran 1 play inside the red zone and it was an incomplete pass by Jackson. The second time they ran 4 plays in the red zone and Peterson touched the ball twice. They ended up kicking a FG. The third time they made it to the red zone Peterson scored.

I really fail to see how it's Peterson's fault that he's only received 3 red zone carries in the eight plays the Vikings have run inside the red zone, not counting his touchdown drive.

yo123
09-16-2008, 06:22 PM
LT barely played after halftime in a bunch of games last year, but whatever. And not too many people talk about it much these days, but young Brees' was awful; inaccurate and not a lot of power on his throws, plus no protection. We drafted Rivers' because Brees had shown very little to that point. LT was the entire offense...he even caught 100 passes in 03 in addition to 1600 rushing yards on 5.3 per with 17 total TDs.

You can't do an accurate comparison right now, because LT is playing hurt. AD is quite a talent, and probably 2nd, but you can't call him better.

Ok, but he still had 77 more carries than AD anyway so I don't really get your point. Peterson was just as productive last year if not more and is dominating again this year with Artis Hicks and Ryan Cook as his respective tackes. I don't really care what LT did in 2003 we're talking about the best RB right now.

diabsoule
09-16-2008, 08:06 PM
Here are some of my thoughts:

• I agree, Philip Rivers, Jay Cutler, and Ben Roethlisberger are all going to be studs and are the next faces of the NFL. Cutler has stepped it up to another level this year. He is just playing out of his mind, but it helps when you have a stud WR in Brandon Marshall and a developing rookie in Eddie Royal.

• While the Eagles may have lost against the Cowboys on MNF, they have shown that they are back. Their defense looked good and they are getting great QB play from Donovan McNabb. I really think that they stand a good shot to win the division if they continue playing like they have been the past two weeks.

• The NFC West is the worst division in football by far.

• Green Bay hasn't skipped a beat with Aaron Rodgers and look to be the favorites in the division. From the way the teams have been playing I wouldn't be surprised if Minnesota finishes third in the division behind Chicago. If Minnesota wants to be taken seriously as a contender then they either need to trade for a QB (Alex Smith, Shaun Hill, J.P. Losman, or Sage Rosenfels) or put in John David Booty or Gus Ferrotte. Tavaris Jackson will only keep them at mediocrity.

• Derek Anderson was a one year wonder and Pittsburgh will easily win the division. It actually would not surprise me if Pittsburgh represented the AFC in the Super Bowl.

• The Broncos are back and in a big way. With Jay Cutler, Brandon Marshall, and a running back by committee that is working, along with a little luck, they have started out 2-0 and beaten two teams that I picked them to lose to. They should easily beat the Saints next week.

• Carolina is going to win the NFC South barring some miraculous coaching by Sean Payton or Brian Griese playing lights out all year. John Fox has squeaked out two wins over two teams I thought they would lose against and done it without Steve Smith. Next week they get Smith back, which will help them out even more since he does not fit the Ewing Theory as defined by Bill Simmons.

• New Orleans looks like the same team they had last year. Sean Payton needs to stop using Madden '09 as his playbook and actually calls plays that will net positive yards. The team needs to stop trying to put the ball into Reggie Bust, er, Bush's hands and put it into Shockey's, David Patten's, or Pierre Thomas', or any player that will net positive yards for them.
The Saints lack of depth on defense is scary, especially along the defensive front. Sedrick Ellis is looking great but he can't do it alone. The pass rush that we got against TB absolutely disappeared against Washington and that's a cause to worry.

• The Bills will make the playoffs and will turn into a team that others will not want to play. The Jets will not make the playoffs and Brett Favre will probably break down in about 5 more games.

• The injuries to the Colts OL is scary, although they should still win the division.

diabsoule
09-16-2008, 09:15 PM
if your offense can't score at will, you should cut all of them.

The same can be said about your offense against the Saints defense.

Saints-Tigers
09-17-2008, 12:56 AM
New Orleans looks like the same team they had last year. Sean Payton needs to stop using Madden '09 as his playbook and actually calls plays that will net positive yards. The team needs to stop trying to put the ball into Reggie Bust, er, Bush's hands and put it into Shockey's, David Patten's, or Pierre Thomas', or any player that will net positive yards for them.
The Saints lack of depth on defense is scary, especially along the defensive front. Sedrick Ellis is looking great but he can't do it alone. The pass rush that we got against TB absolutely disappeared against Washington and that's a cause to worry.


I know cracking on Reggie Bush seems to be the fun and trendy thing to do, but we won't get any sort of running game going without constant use of our great fullback, and some sort of push from anyone not named Jammal Brown and Jahri Evans. Our runningbacks are being swarmed in the backfield as soon as they are handed the ball, and Sean Payton and his fancy play calls aren't helping.

Put Karney in, run from the I formation and let Bush and Thomas actually get to the second level before they have to make 3 guys miss.