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LarryJohnson27
09-15-2008, 06:42 PM
What are the chances he leaves early? I know most qb's that leave early don't have much success but I think Bradford can be one of the exceptions for this rule

vidae
09-15-2008, 06:46 PM
I think it's funny you started a thread about both Matt Stafford and Sam Bradford. Like most KC fans, we're already looking to the #1 overall pick and for it to a be a QB!

holt_bruce81
09-15-2008, 06:49 PM
I don't think he leaves after this season. But he should, His O-Line won't be nearly as good next year. It's hard to really tell how good he is, I mean that Offensive Line is the best I've seen in awhile. Does he get touched like once every game if that?

abaddon41_80
09-15-2008, 06:59 PM
I hope he stays for his junior and senior seasons because I want to see him beast

CashmoneyDrew
09-15-2008, 08:39 PM
I don't think you can automatically dismiss that he won't declare early. He's losing a lot of player's on that offense not to mention the fact that he's going to have a great opportunity for team and personal success this year(National championship, heisman, etc.). Also, I think by the end of the year it will be clear he's the best draft eligible QB available.

Babylon
09-15-2008, 08:39 PM
To answer what are the chances he leaves early i would say slim and none.

CashmoneyDrew
09-15-2008, 08:50 PM
To answer what are the chances he leaves early i would say slim and none.

The guy is losing his O-line and top WR. Not to mention he could also lose Gresham and Murray early. If they win the National Championship I say he leaves. You can't tell me there will be a GM stupid enough to draft Stafford over Bradford.

wicket
09-15-2008, 09:15 PM
Stafford: potential & pro-style player
Tebow: production & game winner
Bradford: qualities Stafford & qualities Tebow
ow who to take

Babylon
09-15-2008, 09:24 PM
The guy is losing his O-line and top WR. Not to mention he could also lose Gresham and Murray early. If they win the National Championship I say he leaves. You can't tell me there will be a GM stupid enough to draft Stafford over Bradford.


You're trying to say every GM in the NFL thinks Bradford is a better prospect than Matt Stafford? Wow!

619
09-15-2008, 09:31 PM
Until I see otherwise Stafford is still the better 'pro' prospect.

regoob2
09-15-2008, 09:31 PM
The guy is losing his O-line and top WR. Not to mention he could also lose Gresham and Murray early. If they win the National Championship I say he leaves. You can't tell me there will be a GM stupid enough to draft Stafford over Bradford.
I like Bradford but there could be several GM that see Staffords upside more appealing.

regoob2
09-15-2008, 09:31 PM
Until I see otherwise Stafford is still the better 'pro' prospect.
What have you seen that makes Stafford the better pro prospect?

CashmoneyDrew
09-15-2008, 09:45 PM
I like Bradford but there could be several GM that see Staffords upside more appealing.

They're the ones that are gonna get burned IMO.

Ozzy
09-15-2008, 09:59 PM
HAHA wow

We all have an interesting debate already going on about this very subject in the last few pages of the Matthew Stafford thread....

And yes it is about one Sam Bradford...

I am still a little in shock how highly thought of this guy is being only a redshirt SOPH on an absolutely stacked team that could make any QB look amazing.

regoob2
09-15-2008, 10:01 PM
HAHA wow

We all have an interesting debate already going on about this very subject in the last few pages of the Matthew Stafford thread....

And yes it is about one Sam Bradford...

I am still a little in shock how highly thought of this guy is being only a redshirt SOPH on an absolutely stacked team that could make any QB look amazing.
your right he does look amazing.

STARHEATHER
09-15-2008, 10:08 PM
not likely. id like to see him under duress. hes clean every play. when in games where hes been pressured, he hasnt fared as well. his throwing arm is not great. lots of soft tosses and not a lot of nfl style throws. hes not a great athlete either. very stiff and robotic. and the competition level isnt all that to get excited about. its easy to pass when youre averaging 10 ypc and your qb is never getting touched. i dont think hes out yet. maybe next year but you never know. i think once he gets throwing in front of the nfl types, his less than stellar arm will be exposed.

619
09-15-2008, 10:13 PM
What have you seen that makes Stafford the better pro prospect?

In a league all about potential he possesses an elite arm that just hasn't lived up to it's billing yet. His arm strength, touch and overall tools are arguably as good if not better than any QB in the nation and this upside itself warrants a first overall consideration, imo. Bradford may turn out to be the more polished QB at the moment but Stafford's long-term upside may be too much to pass up to NFL scouts.

STARHEATHER
09-15-2008, 10:29 PM
he doesnt posess an elite arm. thats the misconception. i really dont know how it could be said after another less than stellar performance gainst lets face it not really a great team (they lost to vandy) stafford is even a consideration. nradford has a decent body, although his height is overstated. but hes non athletic, very stiff, and he doesnt throw lasers at least not that ive seen yet, and in a few games he got pressure he didnt play as well and liabilities showed.

Cribbs>Hester
09-15-2008, 10:35 PM
he doesnt posess an elite arm. thats the misconception. i really dont know how it could be said after another less than stellar performance gainst lets face it not really a great team (they lost to vandy) stafford is even a consideration. nradford has a decent body, although his height is overstated. but hes non athletic, very stiff, and he doesnt throw lasers at least not that ive seen yet, and in a few games he got pressure he didnt play as well and liabilities showed.

You don't like a single 1st round prospect at all do you?

STARHEATHER
09-15-2008, 10:55 PM
i look at it this way, if you look at past draft history, you may only have 1/3 of first round picks actually meet expectations. so generally, im going to cherry pick about 1/3 of them who i see as the best on tape and combine that with their measurables kind of try to weed out those expensive mistakes that teams make every year at the top. ill probably have about 50 players who i like by the end. history says about 25% of every draft class makes a signifigant nfl impact for an extended period of time. so youre not likely to hear a lot of praise for a large amount of players.

Cribbs>Hester
09-15-2008, 10:57 PM
i look at it this way, if you look at past draft history, you may only have 1/3 of first round picks actually meet expectations. so generally, im going to cherry pick about 1/3 of them who i see as the best on tape and combine that with their measurables kind of try to weed out those expensive mistakes that teams make every year at the top. ill probably have about 50 players who i like by the end. history says about 25% of every draft class makes a signifigant nfl impact for an extended period of time. so youre not likely to hear a lot of praise for a large amount of players.

Makes sense, but 25% wow that is a lot...roughly 64 players from each draft. I don't think you get 64 players from every draft that make a significant impact in the league for a long period of time.

STARHEATHER
09-15-2008, 11:12 PM
maybe less then. all the more reason to not like players. i dont believe hype or listen to draft mags or sportscenter. i dont concern myself who gets picked where. because thats how you use top 5 picks and draft chris long types and get no pass rush and give 40 ppg or pick glenn dorsey and give up 300 yds rushing to an awful opponent. i usually have around 50. some will be late rd picks, some will be ufa. im not going to pay rey maaluga 15 mil guaranteed to go out there and get run over and miss tackles. it doesnt matter whos the consensus top players. history shows the consensus top players at respective positions dont meet expectations and it kills your team financially and on the field

adschofield
09-16-2008, 08:57 PM
maybe less then. all the more reason to not like players. i dont believe hype or listen to draft mags or sportscenter. i dont concern myself who gets picked where. because thats how you use top 5 picks and draft chris long types and get no pass rush and give 40 ppg or pick glenn dorsey and give up 300 yds rushing to an awful opponent. i usually have around 50. some will be late rd picks, some will be ufa. im not going to pay rey maaluga 15 mil guaranteed to go out there and get run over and miss tackles. it doesnt matter whos the consensus top players. history shows the consensus top players at respective positions dont meet expectations and it kills your team financially and on the field

So Glenn Dorsey gave up 300 yards of rushing? Oakland couldn't open up any holes up the middle, but then again you know that because you don't simply listen to sportscenter right? TOOL.

STARHEATHER
09-16-2008, 10:33 PM
they brought him on there to be a run stuffer, he started. they got run over. i guess youre saying they got 3 bills on sweeps? they ran for 300. my team hasnt given up a 300 yd rushing game in my life that i can remember. cant even recall a 200 yd game. they did have a streak of like 30 games without a 100 yd rusher allowed. shows the difference in the level of defense. they draft these guys to elevate the defense and you get 300 yards and 40 ppg. those are the mistakes. picks made by the media.you should get great players with high picks. instead this is what you get 300 yds rushing a 40 ppg. but back to bradford. i actually saw an article, he hasnt been sacked once in the last two games. he doesnt have an nfl caliber throwing arm. ts not all that difficult to see. watch freeman or stafford throw, then watch bradford you can see a marked difference in ball flight and velocity. i think bradfords a 4 year man. hes living off his offensive lineand inferior competition. when the competition got better and he got more heat last year, his level of play declined. hes not the guy carrying the team. theyre not winning because bradfords making it so. hes never getting touched, they cant be stopped running and hes throwing to superior athletes.

giantsfan
09-16-2008, 11:01 PM
You do realize a lot of players aren't ready to single handedly improve their entire teams as rookies right? Most players who turn out to be successful in the NFL take time to adjust and even those who are able to succeed early need to improve to stick in the league.

STARHEATHER
09-16-2008, 11:47 PM
there are 2nd and 3rd rounders outplaying these guys. and i fully expect it to continue. high picks should make your team better, or the respective units at least. theyve gotten worse. and theres no light at the end of the tunnel. when you draft high players they pretty much have to excel and make your team better. and considering the guys around arent all that good, youd expect to see positive impact. but you see negative impact. long gets run over and cant get to the qb. dorsey gets run over for 300. theyre not abnormal. out of the top 5 picks generally only 1 or 2 turn out elite. problem is elite players get picked behind and they make lots less money. theyre my two worst picks in the draft in value. you one got potentially average at best guy (long) and one guy whos just terrible (dorsey) with top 5 picks. looks as if theyll be back up there again. with the first pick in the 2009 draft, the kc chiefs select josh freeman?

BigBanger
09-17-2008, 02:38 AM
there are 2nd and 3rd rounders outplaying these guys. and i fully expect it to continue. high picks should make your team better, or the respective units at least. theyve gotten worse. and theres no light at the end of the tunnel. when you draft high players they pretty much have to excel and make your team better. and considering the guys around arent all that good, youd expect to see positive impact. but you see negative impact. long gets run over and cant get to the qb. dorsey gets run over for 300. theyre not abnormal. out of the top 5 picks generally only 1 or 2 turn out elite. problem is elite players get picked behind and they make lots less money. theyre my two worst picks in the draft in value. you one got potentially average at best guy (long) and one guy whos just terrible (dorsey) with top 5 picks. looks as if theyll be back up there again. with the first pick in the 2009 draft, the kc chiefs select josh freeman?
Did you know Chris Long got a sack? He's on pace to notch 8 sacks in his rookie campaign. That's as a rookie. Do you considerer that above average? Dorsey will be a stud, but he's on a horrible team. He's not Albert Haynsworth or John Henderson or Casey Hampton or Shaun Rogers or Haloti Ngata. Dorsey is a much different kind of DT. He'll provide a good run stuffer and an excellent interior pass rusher. Don't expect him to stop one of the best rushing attacks in the NFL all by himself in his second game of his career. Basically, what I'm saying to you is this: Don't be stupid, stupid.

Saints-Tigers
09-17-2008, 02:46 AM
Dorsey is terrible?

BigBanger
09-17-2008, 03:07 AM
What are the chances he leaves early?
He hasn't gotten back to me yet, but he said he's kicking the idea around.

I know most qb's that leave early don't have much success but I think Bradford can be one of the exceptions for this rule
Jason White stayed 6 years, and he, uh, well, I guess he went in the 7th round after winning a Heisman. Its kind of like the Florida Gator WRs or Gators QBs... they just don't translate to the next level. No, not even Chad Jackson (Anyone remember him?) or Louis Murphy.

Bradford is a good decision maker, and thats all thats really required to run that offense since they're the most talented offense in the country. I'll put them up against Missouri and USC. OU is above everyone.

A problem I have trying to watch Bradford is the fact that he's hardly ever throwing the ball in tight spots, and he's out of the game by the middle of the third QT. His WRs are always wide open with one-on-one coverage. No safety over the top. LBs sucked in because they bit on the play action... it's just pitch and catch for him. It's frustrating to try and scout that. He reminds me of Ken Dorsey, but inflated numbers due to the horrible teams he faces.

I'm not impressed when I see him throw 5 TDs in the 2 and half quarters. I assume that's never good, because I'm pretty sure that wont happen at the next level.

wicket
09-17-2008, 04:08 AM
He hasn't gotten back to me yet, but he said he's kicking the idea around.


Jason White stayed 6 years, and he, uh, well, I guess he went in the 7th round after winning a Heisman. Its kind of like the Florida Gator WRs or Gators QBs... they just don't translate to the next level. No, not even Chad Jackson (Anyone remember him?) or Louis Murphy.

Bradford is a good decision maker, and thats all thats really required to run that offense since they're the most talented offense in the country. I'll put them up against Missouri and USC. OU is above everyone.

A problem I have trying to watch Bradford is the fact that he's hardly ever throwing the ball in tight spots, and he's out of the game by the middle of the third QT. His WRs are always wide open with one-on-one coverage. No safety over the top. LBs sucked in because they bit on the play action... it's just pitch and catch for him. It's frustrating to try and scout that. He reminds me of Ken Dorsey, but inflated numbers due to the horrible teams he faces.

I'm not impressed when I see him throw 5 TDs in the 2 and half quarters. I assume that's never good, because I'm pretty sure that wont happen at the next level.
The bold part is a seriously weird statement, would you be more impressed if he didnt throw the td? No you wouldnt. Is the fact that he never throws it into tight coverage at least partly on account of good quick reeds of who's open and not forcing the throw and stuff. In my opinion the one thing you can have against him is that he hasnt had time to shine against tougher opponents but that'll happen.

vidae
09-17-2008, 05:20 AM
A lot of the stuff Oakland was running was off tackle stuff. Dorsey and Tyler had no chance to even be in the play. Dorsey has been a solid contributor thus far and will only get better. It was his second game and you're acting like he's a bust already.

The problem with your thinking is that it's just too narrow. Let's take a look at some facts.

Oakland put up 300 yards rushing on us. An insane total. Really bad, so Dorsey must be a bust, right? You don't realize that our offense could not convert third downs, could not score until the 4th quarter and could not do anything productive at all. When an offense is on the field for four plays at a time, your defense doesn't get a chance to rest. You seem to want to place that on a single player. That is definitely flawed thinking.

Last year the Chiefs were 13th overall in defense, 5th in pass defense and 31st in rush defense (you'll have to excuse if these stats aren't 100% correct as it's 5:20am and I'm tired. They are close though). He was brought here to help stop the run. When given the opportunity, he can do just that. He's a high motor player, plays with great leverage, and is never on his back. Give him more than two games before you call him a bust please.

[/homer]

adschofield
09-17-2008, 03:51 PM
they brought him on there to be a run stuffer, he started. they got run over. i guess youre saying they got 3 bills on sweeps? they ran for 300. my team hasnt given up a 300 yd rushing game in my life that i can remember. cant even recall a 200 yd game. they did have a streak of like 30 games without a 100 yd rusher allowed. shows the difference in the level of defense. they draft these guys to elevate the defense and you get 300 yards and 40 ppg. those are the mistakes. picks made by the media.you should get great players with high picks. instead this is what you get 300 yds rushing a 40 ppg. but back to bradford. i actually saw an article, he hasnt been sacked once in the last two games. he doesnt have an nfl caliber throwing arm. ts not all that difficult to see. watch freeman or stafford throw, then watch bradford you can see a marked difference in ball flight and velocity. i think bradfords a 4 year man. hes living off his offensive lineand inferior competition. when the competition got better and he got more heat last year, his level of play declined. hes not the guy carrying the team. theyre not winning because bradfords making it so. hes never getting touched, they cant be stopped running and hes throwing to superior athletes.

Hey bud, this isn't about your team, now is it? Oakland had at least 150 yards on outside run plays with DMac...Oakland struggled to open up holes down the middle...And since when is Dorsey a "run stuffer"...That's never been his primary skill

jtcharger24
09-17-2008, 07:10 PM
What are the chances he leaves early? I know most qb's that leave early don't have much success but I think Bradford can be one of the exceptions for this rule

I am good friends with one of Sam's family friends who still keeps in touch (I go to OU). I know this seems like a pretty weak connection but anyway, as of right now I am pretty sure Sam plans on staying at OU until he graduates (which since he was redshirted means after next year). He is apparently very intent on getting a degree before going pro. Obviously this could change but I would bet on him being in the 2009 draft.

Crimson79
09-19-2008, 03:06 PM
He hasn't gotten back to me yet, but he said he's kicking the idea around.


Jason White stayed 6 years, and he, uh, well, I guess he went in the 7th round after winning a Heisman. Its kind of like the Florida Gator WRs or Gators QBs... they just don't translate to the next level. No, not even Chad Jackson (Anyone remember him?) or Louis Murphy.

Bradford is a good decision maker, and thats all thats really required to run that offense since they're the most talented offense in the country. I'll put them up against Missouri and USC. OU is above everyone.

A problem I have trying to watch Bradford is the fact that he's hardly ever throwing the ball in tight spots, and he's out of the game by the middle of the third QT. His WRs are always wide open with one-on-one coverage. No safety over the top. LBs sucked in because they bit on the play action... it's just pitch and catch for him. It's frustrating to try and scout that. He reminds me of Ken Dorsey, but inflated numbers due to the horrible teams he faces.

I'm not impressed when I see him throw 5 TDs in the 2 and half quarters. I assume that's never good, because I'm pretty sure that wont happen at the next level.

I don't know what games you have watched Bradford in but I have seen multiple throws that are fit into tight places. The kid has excellent accuracy.

BigBanger
09-20-2008, 12:49 AM
The bold part is a seriously weird statement, would you be more impressed if he didnt throw the td? No you wouldnt. Is the fact that he never throws it into tight coverage at least partly on account of good quick reeds of who's open and not forcing the throw and stuff. In my opinion the one thing you can have against him is that he hasnt had time to shine against tougher opponents but that'll happen.
It was supposed to be. That's why I have no idea if the guy is a top 10 prospect or a 5th round prospect. He looks like both at times. It took me a long time to figure out Colt Brennan (And the Georgia game really helped me). I ended up calling him a horrible prospect and no better than a 7th round guy. It might take me another year to figure out where Bradford ranks. I wanna see him hit. I wanna see the running game stall. I wanna see a defense cover Germaine Gresham instead of seeing him run untouched to the flat with a LB trailing 3 yards behind. I don't think thats a tough read when you have no one in a flat and Gresham running into a flat with a LB not even close him. That's a TD with Ryan Leaf at QB. You wont see Stafford make 10% the amount of throws to guys that are wide open. He doesn't run an offense that spreads the field and attacks every section of the filed either.

D-Unit
09-20-2008, 03:18 AM
It was supposed to be. That's why I have no idea if the guy is a top 10 prospect or a 5th round prospect. He looks like both at times. It took me a long time to figure out Colt Brennan (And the Georgia game really helped me). I ended up calling him a horrible prospect and no better than a 7th round guy. It might take me another year to figure out where Bradford ranks. I wanna see him hit. I wanna see the running game stall. I wanna see a defense cover Germaine Gresham instead of seeing him run untouched to the flat with a LB trailing 3 yards behind. I don't think thats a tough read when you have no one in a flat and Gresham running into a flat with a LB not even close him. That's a TD with Ryan Leaf at QB. You wont see Stafford make 10% the amount of throws to guys that are wide open. He doesn't run an offense that spreads the field and attacks every section of the filed either.
You wanna see Bradford play without an offensive line and get beat up so you can call him no better than a 7th round prospect? Since that's how you formed your opinion of Brennan afterall. :confused:

Babylon
10-04-2008, 12:06 PM
Watching Bradford against Baylor (another cupcake) you can see Sam is in a perfect situation. The QB throws a 10 yard out and the receiver runs 60 yards, also doubt his uniform will get dirty with that OL.

The guy has good size and throws a nice ball although i havent seen him go deep very often, has sort of a compact throwing motion. Just looking at his developement i would say he would be wise to stay another year and no i wouldnt worry about a young OL there, they reload not rebuild.

Dam8610
10-04-2008, 12:43 PM
they brought him on there to be a run stuffer, he started. they got run over. i guess youre saying they got 3 bills on sweeps? they ran for 300. my team hasnt given up a 300 yd rushing game in my life that i can remember. cant even recall a 200 yd game. they did have a streak of like 30 games without a 100 yd rusher allowed. shows the difference in the level of defense. they draft these guys to elevate the defense and you get 300 yards and 40 ppg. those are the mistakes. picks made by the media.you should get great players with high picks. instead this is what you get 300 yds rushing a 40 ppg. but back to bradford. i actually saw an article, he hasnt been sacked once in the last two games. he doesnt have an nfl caliber throwing arm. ts not all that difficult to see. watch freeman or stafford throw, then watch bradford you can see a marked difference in ball flight and velocity. i think bradfords a 4 year man. hes living off his offensive lineand inferior competition. when the competition got better and he got more heat last year, his level of play declined. hes not the guy carrying the team. theyre not winning because bradfords making it so. hes never getting touched, they cant be stopped running and hes throwing to superior athletes.

Do you not understand any defensive concepts outside of a 2-gap 3-4? Glenn Dorsey was brought in to be a Warren Sapp type player, not to be a "run stuffer". Glenn Dorsey in that defense is supposed to penetrate and disrupt the backfield and/or take on doubles, and since Kansas City has no other DL threat to speak of at the moment, I'm going to take a wild guess that he's taking on a lot of doubles. Just because as a team, the Chiefs allowed 300 yards on the ground against the Raiders, who by the way have one of the most talented backs in the NFL in Darren McFadden, who gained most of that yardage, that doesn't mean Glenn Dorsey didn't do his job.

I'm guessing by this post that you're a Ravens fan. While that's nice that your team had all those accomplishments, you have to realize that no team has invested as much in their defense over the existence of the Ravens franchise (AKA since 1996) as the Ravens have. They have SIX former first round picks starting on their defense, when that much has been invested into a defense, it should be a good unit.

georgiafan
10-04-2008, 01:10 PM
Watching Bradford against Baylor (another cupcake) you can see Sam is in a perfect situation. The QB throws a 10 yard out and the receiver runs 60 yards, also doubt his uniform will get dirty with that OL.

I just don't know what to make out of Bradford as a pro prospect it's just to early. His OL is so good he has enough time to go through all his reads and the DL still hasn't got pressure. Alot of his passes are screens and short passes and the WR/HB get about 30 yards after the catch. When he does throw deep it seems like a WR/TE has been left wide open. I think you could put any decent 1-A QB for Okl. and they would still average 40 points a game. I would like to see what he does next year when the OL isn't as good.

Cigaro
10-04-2008, 01:17 PM
Glenn Dorsey is far from a run stopper. He was brought in to be a new era Warren Sapp.

Babylon
10-04-2008, 01:21 PM
I just don't know what to make out of Bradford as a pro prospect it's just to early. His OL is so good he has enough time to go through all his reads and the DL still hasn't got pressure. Alot of his passes are screens and short passes and the WR/HB get about 30 yards after the catch. When he does throw deep it seems like a WR/TE has been left wide open. I think you could put any decent 1-A QB for Okl. and they would still average 40 points a game. I would like to see what he does next year when the OL isn't as good.

The only good team they play in my opinion is Texas so maybe we'll find out more then. People talk about systems like Missouri and Florida and tend to downplay their QBs, i think the sooners "system" makes it tough to evaluate someone, I remember White and Heupel being stars there and they werent pro players.

Ozzy
10-05-2008, 07:05 PM
georgiafan:
I just don't know what to make out of Bradford as a pro prospect it's just to early. His OL is so good he has enough time to go through all his reads and the DL still hasn't got pressure. Alot of his passes are screens and short passes and the WR/HB get about 30 yards after the catch. When he does throw deep it seems like a WR/TE has been left wide open. I think you could put any decent 1-A QB for Okl. and they would still average 40 points a game. I would like to see what he does next year when the OL isn't as good.Completely agree here. Just like you said, the guy has like at least 6-10 seconds, which seems like 3 minutes, to sit back there and find a receiver to throw the ball too. He gets basically no pressure what so ever, and they literally punish people running the ball on offense to the point where defenses lose their fire and intensity, then they just keep stock piling points and yardage.

Not very impressed with his numbers, like others have said Jason White did the same thing in college. I want to see Bradford against a real defense and I want to see Bradford playing on a team that does not have one of the best offensive lines in the last decade in college football.

Again like someone else said, you put any QB in that offense they will look pretty damn good. Put Colt McCoy there, hell put the Gopher Adam Weber in that offense and he will look pretty damn good.

Not that impressed with his arm, throws with nice touch, not very good ball speed.



It is quite sick the hype he is getting on some message boards, and by hype I mean next Peyton Manning or John Elway type hype it seems....


He is a great player, but not that damn great....

Smokey Joe
10-05-2008, 07:56 PM
Sam Bradford has the tools to be a very good player and possible no. 1 pick... but if he left after this year, he'd wouldn't go top 5 let alone top 10. He still has a lot more to prove.

Babylon
10-06-2008, 01:39 PM
Sam Bradford has the tools to be a very good player and possible no. 1 pick... but if he left after this year, he'd wouldn't go top 5 let alone top 10. He still has a lot more to prove.

Agree, i think if he left now he would probably be the 4th QB taken after Stafford, Sanchez and Tebow. Clearly he should be a 2010 guy. We'll find out more after next saturday i believe.

BBIB
10-07-2008, 09:57 PM
I don't understand the hate that people have for this guy.

People say that he has all day to throw. Is he not supposed to take advantage of that?

As far as his receivers being open, the guy puts the ball on the money where only his receivers can get it. He has great accuracy and ability to go through his reads.

It hasn't mattered how good the opposing defense has been either. The only bad game he has in his career was vs Colorado. And they diddn't even have a great D. That one game and the Texas Tech game that he got knocked out of are the only two losses that he has.

Unlike some players I can think of (Stafford) when he doesn't play well, the team doesn't win.

And those poor games are a huge aberration. Again only that one game vs Colorado.


If he torches Texas Im curious what excuses people will have.

holt_bruce81
10-07-2008, 10:24 PM
Where do you guys think he gets drafted if he leaves after this year?

Babylon
10-07-2008, 11:01 PM
Where do you guys think he gets drafted if he leaves after this year?


I dont think he will come out but to answer your question i think it would depend on workouts. If he surprises with an above average arm he could be the 3rd QB behind Sanchez and Stafford. If he stays till the 2010 draft he could be the first QB and maybe top overall.

regoob2
10-07-2008, 11:07 PM
Where do you guys think he gets drafted if he leaves after this year?Top 20 at worst.

Ozzy
10-08-2008, 09:40 AM
BBIB: I don't understand the hate that people have for this guy.

People say that he has all day to throw. Is he not supposed to take advantage of that?

As far as his receivers being open, the guy puts the ball on the money where only his receivers can get it. He has great accuracy and ability to go through his reads.

It hasn't mattered how good the opposing defense has been either. The only bad game he has in his career was vs Colorado. And they diddn't even have a great D. That one game and the Texas Tech game that he got knocked out of are the only two losses that he has.

Unlike some players I can think of (Stafford) when he doesn't play well, the team doesn't win.

And those poor games are a huge aberration. Again only that one game vs Colorado.


If he torches Texas Im curious what excuses people will have.Let me put it too you this way, before I started discussing prospects on internet message boards, I liked Sam Bradford. I still do, but at least for me personally I almost start to hate the guy because people are talking him up to be this John Elway, Troy Aikman type, someone who will completely save their franchise. That is totally crap to me, you put Bradford on the Chiefs or Lions you are telling me they will greatly improve their team? Seriously?

The kid is good but I am way more impressed with the talent around him, than him alone. I a WAY more impressed with the offensive line talent blocking for him, I am more impressed with the tight ends on that team as well. I am even more impressed with the running backs that bound the football.

It is just the kid has everything, and I mean EVERYONE at his finger tips. He pretty much has the perfect offense, great players at all positions.

What I hate again is the hype, the franchise saving hype the kid gets. And I say again, you put any other QB in that offense, they will look damn good as well. Put him on a team with a crappy offensive line, no running game and no receivers to throw the ball too.


And then people say Sanchez has talent on USC. That is true but no way is his offensive line as ridiculously talented as Bradford has. On top of that, Sanchez makes professional throws down the field, he has a better arm than Bradford and plays in a more pro style of offense. Sure Sanchez makes those throws because they allow them too, or Bradford does not make those big throws because he cannot do it.

ALSO, Sanchez has greatly improved over last season. Last year he showed signs, this year he is showing much improved ability which makes one believe he can become better and better as a player and keep improving. Bradford, really he has no where to go but down. What he is going to complete 70% of his passes in the NFL? Please....

If Bradford had a bigger better arm, then yes maybe he is worth the hype. But simply look at his arm strength, I am not taking accuracy I am talking strength, I question is greatly.


So dumb down this NFL franchise hype around him and he will not get so much hate. In my book though he gets way to much love to be honest.

ElectricEye
10-08-2008, 11:10 AM
Out of all the quarterback prospects, Bradford has the fewest visible flaws. He gets a LOT of hype from that alone. Personally though, I still have a few questions. Chief among them is the offense he plays in. Oklahoma hasn't exactly been turning out NFL caliber quarterbacks lately. Bradford looks like he fits the mold better than the recent ones to come through the program. Bomar could have been that type, but we'll never know now.

One thing I'll give him is that until he started, the Oklahoma passing attack was still in a fairly massive layover post Jason White. He's really revitalized the aerial attack there, with some of the same receivers that Bomar and Thompson were throwing to. The line is SOOOO much better though, with the addition of Loadholt and the emergence of Robinson. He does kind of benefit a lot from the talent around him though. I'm not exactly enamored with the guys he's throwing the ball to besides Gresham, but he does kind of have everything. Speed on the outside, a great line, and a really good rushing attack(Although not as good as one might think-they've dropped down to 3.9 YPC this year) to go along with it all.

If he declares, and in all likelyhood he won't, workouts will be pretty huge for Bradford. Taking snaps under center will also be a pretty big deal for him. That's probably my biggest question, actually. His dropbacks definitely look like he's a bit too shotgun oriented for his own good. Right now, he would probably he a high first round pick. There's a few things to pick at though, and I have to wonder how his stock will hold up with more and more scrutiny that he's previously been immune from being levied at him. I'm kind of sold though. He has ideal size, a pretty good arm and really good accuracy to go along with a slew of production against pretty good competition. I'm really excited to see what Bradford can do against Texas this weekend.

Sniper
10-08-2008, 11:14 AM
they brought him on there to be a run stuffer,

They did????

Babylon
10-08-2008, 11:20 AM
Right now it may be shaping up as a Matt Leinart vs Jay Cutler situation. Leinart was the guy with the pinpoint accuracy and the great team around him. Stafford and Sanchez play the role of Jay Cutler. If the Sooners run the table then Bradford's hype will continue to soar and he may ride that to the top of the draft. It wouldnt be the 1st or last time the NFL would get it wrong on who to take.

ElectricEye
10-08-2008, 12:09 PM
Right now it may be shaping up as a Matt Leinart vs Jay Cutler situation. Leinart was the guy with the pinpoint accuracy and the great team around him. Stafford and Sanchez play the role of Jay Cutler. If the Sooners run the table then Bradford's hype will continue to soar and he may ride that to the top of the draft. It wouldnt be the 1st or last time the NFL would get it wrong on who to take.

Stafford and Sanchez have WAY more talent around them than Jay Cutler could have dreamed of though. The difference between Oklahoma and USC/Georgia isn't really that great, and it's certainly no where near the difference between USC and Vandy a few years ago.

I think people are really playing up the talent differential for more than it's worth here. Bradford has a really, really great offensive line. That's probably the second most potent ingredient in making a quarterback look better than he is in college, but the talent difference besides that is really negligible. Bradford doesn't get enough credit for getting the most with what he has.

STARHEATHER
10-08-2008, 12:12 PM
pay really close attention to bradford this week. its going to to be his first semblance of any pressure since wvu where he was inneffective. im seeing picks, sacks and fumbles. they better get a run game going for him. if they start teeing off, he may not make it though the game.

PossumBoy9
10-08-2008, 12:28 PM
You can't tell me there will be a GM stupid enough to draft Stafford over Bradford.

Are their arms even comparable? I don't see it....no disrespect to Bradford.

STARHEATHER
10-08-2008, 12:32 PM
staffords better. sam bradford doesnt throw at the nfl level. staffords a better athlete as well

ElectricEye
10-08-2008, 12:33 PM
Are their arms even comparable? I don't see it....no disrespect to Bradford.

No, they aren't. That much is true. But you don't judge people based on Stafford's arm. How many guys can match that? Jay Cutler(and that's iffy) and Jamarcus Russell. That's pretty much it.

staffords better. sam bradford doesnt throw at the nfl level. staffords a better athlete as well

I disagree with that fairly strongly. Bradford has enough of an arm to fit it in the windows and accuracy to match it, something that Stafford can't provide. Stafford doesn't make reads near as well as Braford either.

PossumBoy9
10-08-2008, 12:40 PM
No, they aren't. That much is true. But you don't judge people based on Stafford's arm. How many guys can match that? Jay Cutler(and that's iffy) and Jamarcus Russell. That's pretty much it.

You're right.

I simply know Stafford can make all the throws the scouts will want to see. Can Bradford? I'm not sure. I'm a bit dubious. I could be wrong.

ElectricEye
10-08-2008, 12:48 PM
You're right.

I simply know Stafford can make all the throws the scouts will want to see. Can Bradford? I'm not sure. I'm a bit dubious. I could be wrong.

I don't really have many questions about Bradfords arm strength personally. Doesn't have an Elway type arm, but he's far from being Chad Pennington. Stafford might wow the scouts, but Bradford won't disappoint them.

Sorry if I came of a bit borish there though. It just kind of annoys me when people hold Stafford's arm strength against the other quarterbacks instead of judging them based on what they actually have. Not saying you did that, just saying that some people have in the past. Same thing happened with Russell.

Ozzy
10-08-2008, 12:56 PM
ElectricEye
Out of all the quarterback prospects, Bradford has the fewest visible flaws. He gets a LOT of hype from that alone. Personally though, I still have a few questions. Chief among them is the offense he plays in. Oklahoma hasn't exactly been turning out NFL caliber quarterbacks lately. Bradford looks like he fits the mold better than the recent ones to come through the program. Bomar could have been that type, but we'll never know now.

One thing I'll give him is that until he started, the Oklahoma passing attack was still in a fairly massive layover post Jason White. He's really revitalized the aerial attack there, with some of the same receivers that Bomar and Thompson were throwing to. The line is SOOOO much better though, with the addition of Loadholt and the emergence of Robinson. He does kind of benefit a lot from the talent around him though. I'm not exactly enamored with the guys he's throwing the ball to besides Gresham, but he does kind of have everything. Speed on the outside, a great line, and a really good rushing attack(Although not as good as one might think-they've dropped down to 3.9 YPC this year) to go along with it all.

If he declares, and in all likelyhood he won't, workouts will be pretty huge for Bradford. Taking snaps under center will also be a pretty big deal for him. That's probably my biggest question, actually. His dropbacks definitely look like he's a bit too shotgun oriented for his own good. Right now, he would probably he a high first round pick. There's a few things to pick at though, and I have to wonder how his stock will hold up with more and more scrutiny that he's previously been immune from being levied at him. I'm kind of sold though. He has ideal size, a pretty good arm and really good accuracy to go along with a slew of production against pretty good competition. I'm really excited to see what Bradford can do against Texas this weekend.Thank you! Nice to see someone see a few of the things I see in terms of who is around Bradford and how that might make him appear on the field.


As for this Texas stuff, yes Texas has a great pass rush, even have good LBs, but in terms of the DBs on Texas I seriously question them. I thought they were horrible last year, this year I have seen them only a little and they look ok but nothing amazing at all. Thus Bradford will probably light them up, and that OL on Oklahoma will kill the Texas front I am sure, they will run all over them and most likely Texas will get destroyed.

I would be more interested in seeing Bradford go up against let us say South Carolina's defense, or LSU, or USC or even Florida State. Texas, eh they are ranked high but will probably get killed trying to defend Oklahoma.

ElectricEye
10-08-2008, 01:06 PM
I would be more interested in seeing Bradford go up against let us say South Carolina's defense, or LSU, or USC or even Florida State. Texas, eh they are ranked high but will probably get killed trying to defend Oklahoma.

Texas will come out playing hard though. I'm more interested to see how Bradford preforms with the big game pressure vs. who he is playing.
I would be interested in seeing him play against a tougher defense as well.

Babylon
10-08-2008, 01:35 PM
Texas will come out playing hard though. I'm more interested to see how Bradford preforms with the big game pressure vs. who he is playing.
I would be interested in seeing him play against a tougher defense as well.


We're all waiting to see him against actual competition not the cupcakes they've played so far. The Big-12 is almost like 7on 7 football the way guys run open in the secondary. I think Stafford has been playing against top competition on a fairly regular basis and he's shown he has the whole bag of tricks. Bradford could be a great player down the road but i think we all need to see a better sample than playing the Baylors and Washingtons of the world.

nrk
10-08-2008, 01:38 PM
If Bradford had a bigger better arm, then yes maybe he is worth the hype. But simply look at his arm strength, I am not taking accuracy I am talking strength, I question is greatly.

You haven't watched a lot of OU games then. Especially last year.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-08-2008, 02:02 PM
A lot of the stuff Oakland was running was off tackle stuff. Dorsey and Tyler had no chance to even be in the play. Dorsey has been a solid contributor thus far and will only get better. It was his second game and you're acting like he's a bust already.

The problem with your thinking is that it's just too narrow. Let's take a look at some facts.

Oakland put up 300 yards rushing on us. An insane total. Really bad, so Dorsey must be a bust, right? You don't realize that our offense could not convert third downs, could not score until the 4th quarter and could not do anything productive at all. When an offense is on the field for four plays at a time, your defense doesn't get a chance to rest. You seem to want to place that on a single player. That is definitely flawed thinking.

Last year the Chiefs were 13th overall in defense, 5th in pass defense and 31st in rush defense (you'll have to excuse if these stats aren't 100% correct as it's 5:20am and I'm tired. They are close though). He was brought here to help stop the run. When given the opportunity, he can do just that. He's a high motor player, plays with great leverage, and is never on his back. Give him more than two games before you call him a bust please.

[/homer]

Good job busting mythbusta's mythbusting by busting mythbusta's myths.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
10-08-2008, 02:12 PM
You wanna see Bradford play without an offensive line and get beat up so you can call him no better than a 7th round prospect? Since that's how you formed your opinion of Brennan afterall. :confused:

It makes some sense when you think about it. Sure, he isn't gonna light it up, but what I think he's looking for is just something that shines out as "good" in that horrible situation. Maybe he keeps getting up after he's hit and stands in there to find the open man. Maybe he does a good job of escaping. Maybe he gets into the face of his blockers and looks like a leader. Something like that. Obviously he won't go 21-30 350 4 TDs. But if he can just look average under NFL conditions(which those would be, although in Colt's case, it was beyond that, and not a great barometer), then he might be a good QB one day. We've seen the guy just standing forever behind a dominant OL, throwing to dominant WRs, handing off to dominant RBs, and his name is Matt Leinart. Once he was in an NFL situation, where the pressure is there, and his receivers aren't 10 times as good as the DBs, he struggled.

The jury is still out on Quinn when it happened to him for most of his senior year. IMO he didn't look so hot under NFL conditions and for that reason, I don't see him performing well in the NFL.

Alternatively, we saw Cutler go up against excellent SEC defenses with a subpar offensive line and receivers(I think Bennett was a Freshman, or maybe soph at the time), and the good spots of his game shone through. He was tough as nails, backed up by:

http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq53/B4Bronco6/output.gif

He had an excellent arm, he could maneuver well, and he just did whatever he could, and actually very nearly shocked UF in a double OT thriller.

STARHEATHER
10-08-2008, 02:14 PM
sounds like some excuses. 32nd is there really any excuse for that. hes being given the opportunity now. and he cant get it done. chad pennington is a very good comparison for bradford

ElectricEye
10-08-2008, 02:36 PM
sounds like some excuses. 32nd is there really any excuse for that. hes being given the opportunity now. and he cant get it done. chad pennington is a very good comparison for bradford

That doesn't even make sense. d00d have j00 seen teh tape?

STARHEATHER
10-08-2008, 02:43 PM
do i need to? i think 32nd says it all. bradford was inneffective with johnny dingle kind of getting pressure. hes going to be under asault this week. im seeing stock down for bradford

CLong4Heisman
10-08-2008, 02:47 PM
do i need to? i think 32nd says it all. bradford was inneffective with johnny dingle kind of getting pressure. hes going to be under asault this week. im seeing stock down for bradford

Please, you're too much. How is it a knock on him if he's getting pressured? Is he suppose to block? This is the same D that Texas had last year and he played well last year.
You must not watch the NFL cuz Pennington is an awful comparison

ElectricEye
10-08-2008, 02:47 PM
do i need to? i think 32nd says it all. bradford was inneffective with johnny dingle kind of getting pressure. hes going to be under asault this week. im seeing stock down for bradford

I was actually making fun of you there. You could clearly see that if you were to look at the tape. You have trouble reading prospects. One thing that's clear though is that you're beastly at shedding blocks, such as common sense and grammar rules.

As far as Bradford being under assault, I would hold up on that one. Questioning his ability to react to pressure is one thing; Texas actually getting it on him with that insane line is another thing entirely.

STARHEATHER
10-08-2008, 02:54 PM
you have to make plays under duress. its an important nfl qb trait. if you cant make plays and be effective under intense pressure you cant go into a playoff game against pitt or tn or dal or nyg or dal or sd or ne and think that if your qb doesnt make plays under pressure, hes not going to make any plays. those teams bring all out assault. there arent going to be too many chances to stand there untouched with all day to throw to a wide open receiver. you dont see that too much against the elite defenses, you dont see it much against any defense. you can count on a guy who has to stay clean to be succesful. those guys dont make it. i dont think hes even as good a spennington. but he has the same limited arm and limited athleticism and the same need to play ina vry conservative offense that needs a running game and to keep him alive. one of the big reasons i dont like him

CLong4Heisman
10-08-2008, 02:59 PM
you have to make plays under duress. its an important nfl qb trait. if you cant make plays and be effective under intense pressure you cant go into a playoff game against pitt or tn or dal or nyg or dal or sd or ne and think that if your qb doesnt make plays under pressure, hes not going to make any plays. those teams bring all out assault. there arent going to be too many chances to stand there untouched with all day to throw to a wide open receiver. you dont see that too much against the elite defenses, you dont see it much against any defense. you can count on a guy who has to stay clean to be succesful. those guys dont make it. i dont think hes even as good a spennington. but he has the same limited arm and limited athleticism and the same need to play ina vry conservative offense that needs a running game and to keep him alive. one of the big reasons i dont like him


Look,I'm a Jets fan. I would know more about Chad than you ever will. Bradford is so much better than Pennington. If Chad didnt have Moss in college he wouldnt have gone in the 1st round.

STARHEATHER
10-08-2008, 03:58 PM
im sorry but because you say so isnt enough. youre talking about a player whos won nfl games and has been to the playoffs etc. i see him as similar bto chad pennington. probably worse. same limited arm, same limited athleticism. basically to this point hes been able to hand it off and stand there all day under no pressure. just watch what happens this weekned when he gets some heat. it doesnt matter much what happens when they have all day. its not difficult to be accurate when your players are better than the other teams and you have all day. that may all change this week. well see.

BBIB
10-08-2008, 04:23 PM
Let me put it too you this way, before I started discussing prospects on internet message boards, I liked Sam Bradford. I still do, but at least for me personally I almost start to hate the guy because people are talking him up to be this John Elway, Troy Aikman type, someone who will completely save their franchise. That is totally crap to me, you put Bradford on the Chiefs or Lions you are telling me they will greatly improve their team? Seriously?





Are you SERIOUS? Sam Bradford has been getting no such love! He's barely received any hype at all from the media.

If ANYBODY is getting the John Elway love it's Matthew Stafford. It's not even a question which one of those guys has the most hype around them.

You have commentators saying that Stafford is making throws that only 2-3 QBs in the NFL can make.

The whole franchise QB and savior talk is being given to STafford.

If anything Bradford has been flying under the radar. He's never been in ANY Heisman discussion despite what he did last year and continues to do this year.

No one has Sam Bradford as a top QB in the draft on any of the draft sites.

The idea that he is overhyped is unfounded.

BBIB
10-08-2008, 04:28 PM
pay really close attention to bradford this week. its going to to be his first semblance of any pressure since wvu where he was inneffective. im seeing picks, sacks and fumbles. they better get a run game going for him. if they start teeing off, he may not make it though the game.

You mean the game where Bradford completed 64% of his passes and had a 2/1 TD/INT ratio and led his team to 28 points?

If that's ineffective then Matthew Stafford has been ineffective his entire career.

wicket
10-08-2008, 04:33 PM
I sort of have a feeling that having production as a qb is almost bad to be liked around here as a qb. Seriously Its nice to have the tools but you also need to make it happen on the field and stafford has done that way less than bradford on comparable teams.

BBIB
10-08-2008, 04:40 PM
I sort of have a feeling that having production as a qb is almost bad to be liked around here as a qb. Seriously Its nice to have the tools but you also need to make it happen on the field and stafford has done that way less than bradford on comparable teams.

It's almost like how some people view guys in the NBA. If there is no obvious flaw in the player's game they are said to have no potential.

But the guy's with the glaring weakness but great physical tools is said to have the more upside and thus the better pick.

It's almost a knock on Bradford that he doesn't have any obvious weakness in his game.

keylime_5
10-08-2008, 04:50 PM
the NFL is really picky about QBs, especially in the first round. They look at if you can make all the throws, your decision making and precision, how good you do during pressure, your mechanics, how quick your release is, and whether or not you stare down receivers or if you can mislead a safety and look off a WR instead. I think Bradford will be hurt by the first, third, and fourth points more so than his mechanics and decision making and accuracy. He's been riding a pretty good offense for the last two years but I have seen him make some pretty questionable throws, but then again he is only a sophomore. I'd put Stafford and Sanchez higher right now but I like Bradford as a pocket passer a lot more than Tebow and his slow release and funky mechanics.

BBIB
10-08-2008, 05:04 PM
the NFL is really picky about QBs, especially in the first round. They look at if you can make all the throws, your decision making and precision, how good you do during pressure, your mechanics, how quick your release is, and whether or not you stare down receivers or if you can mislead a safety and look off a WR instead. I think Bradford will be hurt by the first, third, and fourth points more so than his mechanics and decision making and accuracy. He's been riding a pretty good offense for the last two years but I have seen him make some pretty questionable throws, but then again he is only a sophomore. I'd put Stafford and Sanchez higher right now but I like Bradford as a pocket passer a lot more than Tebow and his slow release and funky mechanics.

Every QB has made questionable throws. Otherwise there wouldn't be that many incompletions.

Sam Bradford has done an outstanding job of taking care of the football, going to the right place with the football, and putting the ball only where his receiver can get it.

I don't see how he could maximize what he's done any more considering how efficient he has been with the football.


He HAS been under pressure. The only game he was bad in was an aberration vs Colorado, a team that didn't even have that great a D.


He was under constant durress vs WVU and he still had a pretty solid game. It wasn't his fault his team gave up 350 yards rushing and 4 rushing TDs on the game giving up a total of a whopping 48 points.



I don't see how he could possibly be regarded behind someone like Mark Sanchez right now who is going to be a one year starter. That has disappointment written all over it

keylime_5
10-08-2008, 05:08 PM
the NFL is all about tools and mechanics as far as first round picks are concerned and the physical aspect of it is blown up more. I don't think his physical tools are there for the NFL scouts and executives' liking and he won't make the throws that you see Sanchez or Stafford make who also put up big numbers on their respective teams.

BBIB
10-08-2008, 05:18 PM
the NFL is all about tools and mechanics as far as first round picks are concerned and the physical aspect of it is blown up more. I don't think his physical tools are there for the NFL scouts and executives' liking and he won't make the throws that you see Sanchez or Stafford make who also put up big numbers on their respective teams.

Sanchez again is a one year starter. How many guys have gone on to be great with such limited time?

People are obsessing far too much over arm strength.

Pocket presence, mechanics, and accuracy are all more important than throwing the ball 60-70 yards down the field.

CLong4Heisman
10-08-2008, 05:36 PM
im sorry but because you say so isnt enough. youre talking about a player whos won nfl games and has been to the playoffs etc. i see him as similar bto chad pennington. probably worse. same limited arm, same limited athleticism. basically to this point hes been able to hand it off and stand there all day under no pressure. just watch what happens this weekned when he gets some heat. it doesnt matter much what happens when they have all day. its not difficult to be accurate when your players are better than the other teams and you have all day. that may all change this week. well see.

If me saying that isnt enough, then why should any of us care what you have to say? Peyton Manning isnt exactly graceful either and he's pretty good.
Pennington was always under pressure and dumps it off for 6 yard gains and the RB would take it 10 more.

keylime_5
10-08-2008, 05:39 PM
Sanchez again is a one year starter. How many guys have gone on to be great with such limited time?

People are obsessing far too much over arm strength.

Pocket presence, mechanics, and accuracy are all more important than throwing the ball 60-70 yards down the field.

i don't expect sanchez or bradford to be in the draft until 2010. arm strenght is about more than throwing it down the field. the hardest throw in football is the out route down the field not the deep throw/bomb.

Babylon
10-08-2008, 05:43 PM
i don't expect sanchez or bradford to be in the draft until 2010. arm strenght is about more than throwing it down the field. the hardest throw in football is the out route down the field not the deep throw/bomb.

I think i'd disagree on Sanchez not coming out but your comment about the out route is spot on. Also when you see those deep seam routes you can actually see how long the ball is in the air.

keylime_5
10-08-2008, 06:04 PM
you really think Sanchez would come out after starting for a year and playing hurt? I think that would be a mistake on his part if he does. Success rate for junior QBs who declare for the NFL is really low. I know Big Ben worked out pretty well but the success rate is kinda low. money wise it makes sense b/c there is no good senior QB like next year when there will be at least 2 or 3. But long term it would probably hurt his chances of success.

Babylon
10-08-2008, 06:14 PM
you really think Sanchez would come out after starting for a year and playing hurt? I think that would be a mistake on his part if he does. Success rate for junior QBs who declare for the NFL is really low. I know Big Ben worked out pretty well but the success rate is kinda low.

My guess is Sanchez will petition the NFL to see where he is going to be drafted and i'm sure he'll get a pretty high grade. There are certainly enough teams like Detroit, Houston, KC, Tampa Bay and St Louis that need Qbs so it's doubtful he'd slip by all those teams. Also he's a 4th year guy coming off a preseason injury. Mark Sanchez probably had the NFL on his mind as a highschool junior, i doubt he would think he's not ready. Just my take.

keylime_5
10-08-2008, 06:27 PM
that's interesting. This could be another 2005 where there are no first round worthy senior QBs and we have two or more first round juniors declare like Aaron Rodgers and Alex Smith did but with probably Stafford and Sanchez this year if that happens again.

illmatic74
10-12-2008, 01:11 AM
you really think Sanchez would come out after starting for a year and playing hurt? I think that would be a mistake on his part if he does. Success rate for junior QBs who declare for the NFL is really low. I know Big Ben worked out pretty well but the success rate is kinda low. money wise it makes sense b/c there is no good senior QB like next year when there will be at least 2 or 3. But long term it would probably hurt his chances of success. And Rothelisberger was very experienced

Babylon
10-12-2008, 12:09 PM
I thought Bradford showed pretty much what was expected against Texas, he has terrific accuracy on his throws, has good size and seems to be able to move around a little in the pocket. Being young i dont think he has enough big game experience yet and is a little shakey under pressure. As in baskketball a young player leaving early sort of forces the hand of the teams to draft him but i think he would benefit in his developement by staying another year.

MitchRobStew
10-12-2008, 11:03 PM
Bradford is a joke. He couldn't stretch the defense enough to open up some holes for the running game against Texas. Colt McCoy, and Bradford show every Saturday how little their game will translate to the next level. I am warming up to Stafford though. He is the only QB outside of Freeman that can make all the NFL throws. ] Bradford will not be able to stretch a defense or control the safeties at the next level. That is one of the reason I liked Ryan so much. He could control the safeties. Stafford despite throwing a couple pick in the last game showed more in that game than Bradford has all year. He controlled the safeties and put the ball in tighter spots than I have seem Bradford do in his entire career. His wide receivers didn't get much separation, and dropped alot of well placed balls, one was a dropped touchdown passes, and one was a drop that turned into a pick. He fared better than expected despite Moreno having an average to below average game. Josh Freeman, and Stafford are the only potential first round QB in the 2009 draft so far.

Crimson79
10-12-2008, 11:07 PM
Bradford is a joke. He couldn't stretch the defense enough to open up some holes for the running game against Texas. Colt McCoy, and Bradford show every Saturday how little their game will translate to the next level. I am warming up to Stafford though. He is the only QB outside of Freeman that can make all the NFL throws. ] Bradford will not be able to stretch a defense or control the safeties at the next level. That is one of the reason I liked Ryan so much. He could control the safeties. Stafford despite throwing a couple pick in the last game showed more in that game than Bradford has all year. He controlled the safeties and put the ball in tighter spots than I have seem Bradford do in his entire career. His wide receivers didn't get much separation, and dropped alot of well placed balls, one was a dropped touchdown passes, and one was a drop that turned into a pick. He fared better than expected despite Moreno having an average to below average game. Josh Freeman, and Stafford are the only potential first round QB in the 2009 draft so far.

Are you sure people aren't still calling you a dumbass? Because if they aren't don't worry I will keep the trend alive.

CashmoneyDrew
10-12-2008, 11:12 PM
Damn. How many accounts does mythbusta have now?

BrownsTown
10-12-2008, 11:12 PM
Good size, amazing accuracy, makes good decisions, not a bad arm...I like him as a pro prospect. He'll need a year or so to adapt to the new system in the NFL, but I think he could be drafted fairly high and become a good player.

MitchRobStew
10-12-2008, 11:20 PM
Are you sure people aren't still calling you a dumbass? Because if they aren't don't worry I will keep the trend alive.
Bradford will not translate. He is in a very friendly QB system, like guys like Brohm, Woodson, and Brennan. It doesn't take talent to run that offense. Your just looking at the numbers. I bet you were one of those that liked Brohm more than Ryan, or though Colt Brennan was a first rounder. I guarantee that he will not be a first round pick. What skill of his translate. He does not make presnap adjustment at the line. Stafford does a marvelous job of this. He only read one side of the field at most during a play. Stafford reads the entire field. Stafford has minor accuracy and consistency issue. He has the only arm in the draft even close to Matt Ryan's. But keep basing your QB ratings on stats, in non-prostyle offense that will not translate to the NFL. Without that o-line his windup release for the deep ball would get him killed.

illmatic74
10-12-2008, 11:24 PM
Only QB I would draft in the first round.

Malaka
10-13-2008, 06:01 PM
Bradford will not translate. He is in a very friendly QB system, like guys like Brohm, Woodson, and Brennan. It doesn't take talent to run that offense. Your just looking at the numbers. I bet you were one of those that liked Brohm more than Ryan, or though Colt Brennan was a first rounder. I guarantee that he will not be a first round pick. What skill of his translate. He does not make presnap adjustment at the line. Stafford does a marvelous job of this. He only read one side of the field at most during a play. Stafford reads the entire field. Stafford has minor accuracy and consistency issue. He has the only arm in the draft even close to Matt Ryan's. But keep basing your QB ratings on stats, in non-prostyle offense that will not translate to the NFL. Without that o-line his windup release for the deep ball would get him killed.

That is why down at Louisville Hunter Cantwell is a Heisman candidate, and Louisville doesn't suck. Stafford is very inaccurate, although he has improved form last year he does have a good arm. Freeman has 0 decision making skills, maybe if he stays until he is a senior, and he lights up the stats he can be a fringe first rounder, great arm though.

Bradford can make all the throws, he has an above average arm, excellent accuracy, great pocket poise, and is a team leader. I think last saturday really proved to me he is a future franchise QB in this league. I do not think he comes out this year, but next year he is the first QB taken off the board with out doubt, in my opinion.

jnew76
10-13-2008, 06:20 PM
Damn. How many accounts does mythbusta have now?


Can't be Mythbusta, it has punctuation and capitalization.

Malaka
10-13-2008, 06:28 PM
Can't be Mythbusta, it has punctuation and capitalization.

Exactly what I was thinking.

CashmoneyDrew
10-13-2008, 06:36 PM
Can't be Mythbusta, it has punctuation and capitalization.

Good point.

MitchRobStew
10-13-2008, 08:07 PM
That is why down at Louisville Hunter Cantwell is a Heisman candidate, and Louisville doesn't suck. Stafford is very inaccurate, although he has improved form last year he does have a good arm. Freeman has 0 decision making skills, maybe if he stays until he is a senior, and he lights up the stats he can be a fringe first rounder, great arm though.

Bradford can make all the throws, he has an above average arm, excellent accuracy, great pocket poise, and is a team leader. I think last saturday really proved to me he is a future franchise QB in this league. I do not think he comes out this year, but next year he is the first QB taken off the board with out doubt, in my opinion.
Yeah, but you also have to take into consideration the fact that Louisville had three skill position players drafted on offense that Brohm worked with. Brohm will do well in systems like the one in GB or the one in TB. But, I just don't think he had the arm to work in many other systems. I actually like Brohm better than Bradford. I had Brohm as a third round grade, so I was as wrong as those who had him as a first round grade. Bradford if he came out this season, would be taken late 3rd to 4th round IMO. Cantwell is a whole different issue. He has a huge arm, but a Woodson type release, which is killing him. Plus he isn't near as smart as Brohm with the football. Cantwell just overall sucks. He has a big arm, but that is it. Also, Brohm was given more of the field to work with than Bradford. I rarely seem Bradford look at more than 1/2 of the field in a given play. Also, the lack of presnap adjustments bring up a question about his ability to read a defense presnap. I will give Bradford this though. He does have good accuracy and a beautiful release on the short-intermediate range stuff. However, I notice he doesn't have as good of a release on the deep stuff, he has to wind up a bit more. I also rarely see him fit the ball in tight coverage deep. That is a necessity in the NFL. He doesn't get the stream on it Stafford does. QBs that can throw the ball hard with a tight spiral, and accuracy rule the NFL. That is why Ryan is translating so well. He is smart, has a very strong arm, throws with a tight spiral, and can fit the ball in tight places which he learned in college from throwing to subpar WRs. Stafford throws to average WRs that drop a lot of balls. Heck last week they dropped a touchdown pass, that was right on the money, and also dropped a pass that turned into a pick. Bradford has amazing WRs that dominate the competition. His WRs on his usual 15 yards down the field completion have 2 to 3 steps on the defender. Also, those dump off passes to the backs that turn into 50+ yard gains once or twice a game skew the numbers. That throw against the bears by Matt Ryan is a throw that Bradford couldn't even dream of completing. That is what elite QB do. They can do anything with their arm, putting the ball in tight places where only their receiver can get it. However I could be wrong. I was wrong on David Carr, and Jason Campbell. Its pretty much a crapshoot as far as QB is concerned. I just think you have to get a player that does well in all facets of the game mentally, and physically because of how low the success rate is at the QB position. Bradford just doesn't have the arm facet of game down, and its impossible to say on the mental side of things in that offense. But, I've rambled on too much.

CLong4Heisman
10-13-2008, 09:11 PM
Yeah, but you also have to take into consideration the fact that Louisville had three skill position players drafted on offense that Brohm worked with. Brohm will do well in systems like the one in GB or the one in TB. But, I just don't think he had the arm to work in many other systems. I actually like Brohm better than Bradford. I had Brohm as a third round grade, so I was as wrong as those who had him as a first round grade. Bradford if he came out this season, would be taken late 3rd to 4th round IMO. Cantwell is a whole different issue. He has a huge arm, but a Woodson type release, which is killing him. Plus he isn't near as smart as Brohm with the football. Cantwell just overall sucks. He has a big arm, but that is it. Also, Brohm was given more of the field to work with than Bradford. I rarely seem Bradford look at more than 1/2 of the field in a given play. Also, the lack of presnap adjustments bring up a question about his ability to read a defense presnap. I will give Bradford this though. He does have good accuracy and a beautiful release on the short-intermediate range stuff. However, I notice he doesn't have as good of a release on the deep stuff, he has to wind up a bit more. I also rarely see him fit the ball in tight coverage deep. That is a necessity in the NFL. He doesn't get the stream on it Stafford does. QBs that can throw the ball hard with a tight spiral, and accuracy rule the NFL. That is why Ryan is translating so well. He is smart, has a very strong arm, throws with a tight spiral, and can fit the ball in tight places which he learned in college from throwing to subpar WRs. Stafford throws to average WRs that drop a lot of balls. Heck last week they dropped a touchdown pass, that was right on the money, and also dropped a pass that turned into a pick. Bradford has amazing WRs that dominate the competition. His WRs on his usual 15 yards down the field completion have 2 to 3 steps on the defender. Also, those dump off passes to the backs that turn into 50+ yard gains once or twice a game skew the numbers. That throw against the bears by Matt Ryan is a throw that Bradford couldn't even dream of completing. That is what elite QB do. They can do anything with their arm, putting the ball in tight places where only their receiver can get it. However I could be wrong. I was wrong on David Carr, and Jason Campbell. Its pretty much a crapshoot as far as QB is concerned. I just think you have to get a player that does well in all facets of the game mentally, and physically because of how low the success rate is at the QB position. Bradford just doesn't have the arm facet of game down, and its impossible to say on the mental side of things in that offense. But, I've rambled on too much.


Sam Bradford is a really good QB, in college he is one of the best. In the NFL he will probably be a mid 1st round pick and be a solid QB for 10-12 years. I think you're under estimating how strong Sams arm is. He threw some bullets in that game but you're right in that he cant throw it 70 yards like Stafford and Freeman.
The thing that makes him special is his accuracy and the mid routes and when he throws a 40 pass. His arm isnt Peyton Manning but it's not Chad Pennington either.