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BuckDawg23
09-15-2008, 11:28 PM
Who do you guys think can potentially be the best 3-4 OLB in this class? Someone who has more than 1 pass rush move, someone who can drop back into coverage, can play the run, has some strength at the point of attack and doesnt completely rely on speed BUT does have some speed.

SenorGato
09-15-2008, 11:30 PM
Everette Brown.

Theres quite a few good ones...I like Brown and Hardy the most...Ricky Sapp...Selvie, maybe...

Cribbs>Hester
09-15-2008, 11:34 PM
Lordy have I been watching these guys the last 3-4 years since my team needs one so so soooooooo badly.

1. Everette Brown DE Florida State(Jr.)
2. Maurive Evans DE Penn State(Jr.)
3. Cody Brown DE UCONN
4. Diyral Briggs DE Bowling Green
5. Dexter Davis DE Arizona State(Jr.)
6. George Selvie DE South Florida(Jr.)

There are several players who could potentially do it, but I'm still looking for that one stand out stud with great flexibility and fluid hips. I see no DeMarcus Ware or Shawne Merriman types, but then again they don't come around very often.

BuckDawg23
09-15-2008, 11:37 PM
what are Browns strengths/weaknesses?

Paranoidmoonduck
09-15-2008, 11:38 PM
Greg Hardy of Mississippi is a pretty interesting guy because he obviously can rush the pass and disrupt plays, but he might not be a good enough athlete to move into the top stratosphere. Brian Orakpo is a guy who has the athleticism, but not sure I see it in his game (yet, anyhow).

SenorGato
09-15-2008, 11:39 PM
Lordy have I been watching these guys the last 3-4 years since my team needs one so so soooooooo badly.

1. Everette Brown DE Florida State(Jr.)
2. Maurive Evans DE Penn State(Jr.)
3. Cody Brown DE UCONN
4. Diyral Briggs DE Bowling Green
5. Dexter Davis DE Arizona State(Jr.)
6. George Selvie DE South Florida(Jr.)

There are several players who could potentially do it, but I'm still looking for that one stand out stud with great flexibility and fluid hips. I see no DeMarcus Ware or Shawne Merriman types, but then again they don't come around very often.

I think a couple guys have the potential to hit their class as prospects...Hardy, Brown, Evans, and Selvie all have that potential...

Cribbs>Hester
09-15-2008, 11:42 PM
what are Browns strengths/weaknesses?

Strenghts:
Speed and quickness.

He's great in puirsuit and side line to side line stretching run plays out.

Weaknesses:
Not great against the run directly at him because he's not very stout at the point of attack. Plays too high to be very effective against a power run game.

He's not that powerful and I've only seen him use one pass rush move.(I guess that is all they teach down at Florida State because Kamerion Wimbley has the same problem)

I've never seen him in coverage, so I wouldn't have a clue how his read and react skills are like when the ball is in the air, or what they would be like as a stand up guy against the run.

SenorGato
09-15-2008, 11:44 PM
I completely forgot about Orakpo....

Some good athletes coming out...he's another ridiculous one.

Cribbs>Hester
09-15-2008, 11:45 PM
I think a couple guys have the potential to hit their class as prospects...Hardy, Brown, Evans, and Selvie all have that potential...

I'm going to disagree hole heartedly. Guys like that only come around once or twice every 15 years or so.

Lawrence Taylor
Derrick Thomas
Kevin Greene
DeMarcus Ware
Shawne Merriman

I honestly don't see a prospect with that type of potential except maybe the kid from USC...he looks like a hell of an athlete and looks like a never give up type defender. Even him I still want to see him put it together on the field.

SenorGato
09-15-2008, 11:47 PM
I'm going to disagree hole heartedly. Guys like that only come around once or twice every 15 years or so.

Lawrence Taylor
Derrick Thomas
Kevin Greene
DeMarcus Ware
Shawne Merriman

I honestly don't see a prospect with that type of potential except maybe the kid from USC...he looks like a hell of an athlete and looks like a never give up type defender. Even him I still want to see him put it together on the field.

Well...not for nothing but no one knew who DeMarcus Ware was until the combine...and if you did you weren't thinking "top 15 pick."

Cribbs>Hester
09-15-2008, 11:56 PM
Well...not for nothing but no one knew who DeMarcus Ware was until the combine...and if you did you weren't thinking "top 15 pick."

Causual fans. Those that watched him play knew that he was a special talent, but you are right you weren't thinking Top 15. A lot of that, however was due to the team he played on, comp he played against and very little coverage he got.

Going into the comibine I know I had him ranked highly because I remember I wanted Cadillac Williams #3 and DeMarcus Ware at #34. I only had David Pollack ranked higher as a 34 OLB, but back then I didn't think Merriman would play OLB in the NFL since he was so huge(272) I was counting on him adding weight for the pros and being a 43DE instead he shed pounds and killed it at OLB.

Don Vito
09-16-2008, 02:06 AM
Greg Hardy of Mississippi is a pretty interesting guy because he obviously can rush the pass and disrupt plays, but he might not be a good enough athlete to move into the top stratosphere. Brian Orakpo is a guy who has the athleticism, but not sure I see it in his game (yet, anyhow).

Hardy is actually a fantastic athlete, he is a freak. He caught two TDs playing WR as well as leading the SEC in sacks and TFLs despite being suspended for 2 or 3 games. Hardy is a beast of an athlete and thats not just me being a homer.

thule
09-16-2008, 06:39 AM
Ricky Sapp....I can't say his name enough....if only he could get some production he'd be a top 5 lock by draft day...because his numbers are going to be off the chart.

Babylon
09-16-2008, 10:26 AM
Brian Cushing, sort of a rich mans Mike Vrabel.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-16-2008, 11:12 AM
Hardy is actually a fantastic athlete, he is a freak. He caught two TDs playing WR as well as leading the SEC in sacks and TFLs despite being suspended for 2 or 3 games. Hardy is a beast of an athlete and thats not just me being a homer.

I was mostly going off what his number were out of high school. At 235 he was running in the 4.8's in both shuttle and 40.

DeathbyStat
09-16-2008, 11:27 AM
I like Ricky Sapp and for the future Aaron Maybin from Penn State


I think Maurice Evans from penn State would be better in a 4-3

keylime_5
09-16-2008, 12:17 PM
Ricky Sapp. High ceiling, not there yet. Not a great year so far for 3-4 OLBs. Michael Johnson could probably work out there too with a good coach.

SuperKevin
09-16-2008, 11:50 PM
Ian Campbell of Kansas State actually has experience as a down lineman and as a 3-4 OLB and has been fairly productive at each position. He may not be the best athlete in the draft but he's a hard working, intelligent player who will quickly adjust to the pro game.

D-Unit
09-17-2008, 12:48 AM
Tim Jamison, Michigan 6-3, 265.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/07yS8LCbrC54k/610x.jpg

Bruce Banner
09-17-2008, 01:11 AM
Brian Cushing, sort of a rich mans Mike Vrabel.

I'm sure being white is the last thing that you noticed they had in common.

giantsfan
09-17-2008, 01:14 AM
I'm sure being white is the last thing that you noticed they had in common.

Both are big guys with good acceleration towards the ball which makes them good pass rushers, but Cushing's on another level athletically.

ammandss
09-17-2008, 01:02 PM
Clint Sintim - 6'3", 245lb

He's a good OLB in the 3-4. He knows the system and has been improving every season. He finished last season with 9 sacks and 17 hurries. He needs to improve his quickness and pash rushing skills. That being said he lost weight this summer and has gotten even more lean than in seasons prior. He did not look good in the USC game and was dominated at times. Against Richmond he was a beast that everyone expected and finished with 1.0 sacks (two half sacks). I'm not sure how he did against UConn, but then again the entire Virginia team sucked (including the defense).

Here are his stats so far this season:

USC - 5 tackles, 2 solo, 3 assists, 1 QBH
Richmond - 7 tackles, 3 solo, 4 assists, 1.0 sacks, 1 FR
Connecticut - 5 tackles, 2 solo, 3 assists

Babylon
09-17-2008, 01:22 PM
I'm sure being white is the last thing that you noticed they had in common.


Actually it was.

Solomon
09-17-2008, 01:30 PM
Eric Norwood is a name I haven't seen mentioned yet. Had almost 20 tackles for loss in the SEC last season (and IMO the SEC had the best pass blocking tackles in the country) as an end. And I believe is making the transition to OLB this year. I haven't had a chance to watch him play yet this year but his stat line has been impressive once again. He's short (about 6-1) and stocky (265-270 lbs) and he doesn't have the best straight line speed but he's a relentless pass rusher, powerful with a very good first step. Best case scenario - Terrell Suggs, worst case - Parys Harylson.

marks01234
09-18-2008, 11:38 AM
Both are big guys with good acceleration towards the ball which makes them good pass rushers, but Cushing's on another level athletically.

Vrabel was a great athlete at Ohio State and I'd say much closer to Crushing than you think.

The NFL is a different game. Great athletes often look average. The 3-4 scheme put Vrabel in a position where shedding blocks, holding the point of attack and maintain field awareness (and catching TD passes) were higher prioteries than flying around the ball.

keylime_5
09-18-2008, 12:19 PM
Brian Cushing, sort of a rich mans Mike Vrabel.

I don't really like Cushing as a 3-4 OLB. As a 3-4 ILB I love him though. Vrabel had 14 sacks his senior year at Ohio State as a DE, but was like a 3rd rounder b/c of athleticism. I think Cushing is more like Carpenter and Clay Matthews more like Vrabel.

Don Vito
09-18-2008, 12:25 PM
Here are some highlights of Greg Hardy, these are just of the Bama game last year but he had a great game with 13 tackles, 5 TFL, 3 sacks, 2 FF, and a bunch of deflections.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dhol5aFg8Y

Babylon
09-18-2008, 01:02 PM
I don't really like Cushing as a 3-4 OLB. As a 3-4 ILB I love him though. Vrabel had 14 sacks his senior year at Ohio State as a DE, but was like a 3rd rounder b/c of athleticism. I think Cushing is more like Carpenter and Clay Matthews more like Vrabel.


Cushing is a much better player than Carpenter but you may be right about him playing inside. Cush isnt a great pass rusher from the outside so i could see him playing in a traditional 4-3 ala Chad Greenway. (gonna catch flack for comparing him to a white guy, oh well).

D-Unit
09-18-2008, 01:43 PM
Auburn's DE Antonio Coleman is 6-3, 250 and is having a good season so far. He's just a junior though.

jnew76
09-18-2008, 02:16 PM
OU's Auston English has the size and athletic ability to play OLB in the 3-4. He is a former RB recruit that is now listed at 6'3" 257. He is a Junior. He had 9.5 sacks and 13 TFL's in 9 games last year.

Cribbs>Hester
09-18-2008, 06:19 PM
Cushing is a much better player than Carpenter but you may be right about him playing inside. Cush isnt a great pass rusher from the outside so i could see him playing in a traditional 4-3 ala Chad Greenway. (gonna catch flack for comparing him to a white guy, oh well).


You only say that because Carpenter has been a flop in the NFL. If you're not just talking to talk and actually watched Carpenter his junior and senior seasons at Ohio State then Brian Cushing doesn't even come close to Carps league. Not to mention Brian Cushing is a huge pansie and always hurt.

Babylon
09-18-2008, 06:33 PM
You only say that because Carpenter has been a flop in the NFL. If you're not just talking to talk and actually watched Carpenter his junior and senior seasons at Ohio State then Brian Cushing doesn't even come close to Carps league. Not to mention Brian Cushing is a huge pansie and always hurt.

First off Carpenter was a much better player before his injury during his senior year, i dont think he's the same player since then. I still think in the right system he can be a good NFL player. Cushing is a bigger,quicker, stronger and more instinctive football player. As for him being a pansie give me a break on that count. He got chopped from behind in the Idaho game at the beginning of last year and wasnt completely healthy even though he came back in about 6 weeks. I dont consider a guy getting chopped from behind as injury prone. Just my take.

Cribbs>Hester
09-18-2008, 06:37 PM
No? He's only had what two more injuries already this year?

Bigger? Lie. Quicker? Lie Stronger? Push Instincitve? hahaha what a joke.

Babylon
09-18-2008, 06:42 PM
No? He's only had what two more injuries already this year?

Bigger? Lie. Quicker? Lie Stronger? Push Instincitve? hahaha what a joke.

Lie? I'm not going to argue with you, put the two next to each other and you tell me who is the bigger and more athletic player. As for injuries he has missed zero time on gameday for being hurt.

Texas Homer
09-21-2008, 11:35 PM
Jr. Sergio Kindle from Texas needs to be on the list. Athletic freak and big frame.

TitanHope
09-21-2008, 11:50 PM
Gonna second the Eric Norwood mention. Played DE last year, but was moved to OLB this year in SCar's 4-3. Making more plays this season than Jasper Brinkley is.

Probably more so a mid-round pick, but he's among the most prepared due to his experience at OLB this year.

Vikes99ej
09-21-2008, 11:55 PM
I like Ricky Sapp and Everette Brown.

SuperKevin
09-21-2008, 11:58 PM
Everette Brown will be a dominant player at either 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE. The guy is a stud.

thule
09-22-2008, 12:26 AM
Cushing doesn't even stay on the field in third down situations when USC switches to their different packages....yet people are calling him a 3-4 OLB. You don't convert a player to a different position if he can't even stay on the field in college. I'm calling bs as a OLB.

Iamcanadian
09-22-2008, 12:49 AM
I think George Selvie is the #1 guy this year for either a 3-4 team or a Cover 2 team. He's a sure fire top 15 guy who could go even higher if he does well at the combine.
Cushing isn't suited to a 3-4 team nor a Cover 2 team. You have to be able to sometimes play DE in a 3-4 to be effective and Cushing isn't really that type.

Iamcanadian
09-22-2008, 12:57 AM
Cushing doesn't even stay on the field in third down situations when USC switches to their different packages....yet people are calling him a 3-4 OLB. You don't convert a player to a different position if he can't even stay on the field in college. I'm calling bs as a OLB.

While I think he isn't ideally suited to be a 3-4 OLB, USC LB's never put up huge stats as there are so many of them. Rivers, if you went by his stats should never have been a 1st rounder. However USC doesn't really ask its OLB's to blitz so it's difficult to judge them for a 3-4.
Cushing is going to be a monster in the NFL if he stays healthy. He has a bigger upside than Rivers IMO. A player like that can play in any defense but a 3-4 may be his worst option unless it is as an ILB.

thule
09-22-2008, 01:24 AM
I didn't reference stats at all...I simply stated that when USC goes into sub packages mainly on third downs Cushing comes off the field. This isn't something I want to see from a supposedly "top LB" in the country.

islandboy843
09-22-2008, 05:31 AM
This needs more Ricky Sapp.
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/cory_mccartney/05/04/shoes.to.fill/t1_sapp.jpg

STARHEATHER
09-22-2008, 07:58 PM
im going to say eric norwood sc.

Cribbs>Hester
09-24-2008, 06:42 AM
I didn't reference stats at all...I simply stated that when USC goes into sub packages mainly on third downs Cushing comes off the field. This isn't something I want to see from a supposedly "top LB" in the country.


Thank you. Someone else see this guy for what he is!

HellonEarth84
12-13-2008, 06:01 AM
Everette Brown - great first step. recognizes play action. nice moves.

George Selvie - hard worker with non-stop motor. a taller james harrison. Needs to gain 10lbs

Clint Sintim - proven as an OLB in the 34. experienced. Ideal size.

Mr. Stiller
12-13-2008, 10:56 AM
I'd go with:


Potentially Elite:

Ricky Sapp, Clemson
Brian Orakpo, Texas
Jerry Hughes, TCU


Top Notch:

Everette Brown, FSU
Larry English, NIU
Connor Barwin, Cincinnati
Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech


Above Average:

Brandon Graham, Michigan (If he gets his motor like Woodley he moves up between Top Notch and Elite)
Sergio Kindle, Texas
Brandon Lang, Troy
George Selvie, USF
Clint Sintim, Virginia
Eric Norwood, South Carolina
Clay Matthews, USC
Cody Brown, Connecticut
Matt Shaughnessy, Wisconsin
Stryker Sulak, Missouri


Guys Who Might surprise:

Matt Panfil, TCU
Lawrence Sidbury Jr., Richmond
Jamal Westerman, Rutgers
Brandon Swain, West Texas A&M
Orion Martin, Virginia Tech
Slade Norris, Oregon State
Dan Skuta, Grand Valley State

Shouldn't play 3-4 OLB:

Greg Hardy, Mississippi
Mark Herzlich, Boston College
Maurice Evans, Penn State




I haven't really gotten a chance to focus on the guys that "Might Surprise" But the little bit I have seen say they'll take some work but could be pleasant surprises, maybe in rotation.

STARHEATHER
12-13-2008, 11:21 AM
i like orakpo i was watching some terrel suggs footage and thats who he reminds me of. brian cushing serously. hes not even good enough a pass rusher for usc to use him in that role. but youre going to rely on cushing to be youre pressure man in the 3-4? if you cant get to the qb in the 3-4 you may as well give it up youre going to lose. if hes not even pass rusher for usc how can he play in the 3-4 olb? theres one single most important characteristic for any 3-4 olb. one thing that all the elites at the position do. they get to the qb. they beat people off the edge. cushing cant do it.

STARHEATHER
12-13-2008, 11:22 AM
that guy ricky sapop from clemson real interesting. freak asthlete. not tons of production. hes on my weatch list for next yr

keylime_5
12-13-2008, 11:25 AM
I'd go with:


Potentially Elite:

Ricky Sapp, Clemson
Brian Orakpo, Texas
Jerry Hughes, TCU


Top Notch:

Everette Brown, FSU
Larry English, NIU
Connor Barwin, Cincinnati
Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech


Above Average:

Brandon Graham, Michigan (If he gets his motor like Woodley he moves up between Top Notch and Elite)
Sergio Kindle, Texas
Brandon Lang, Troy
George Selvie, USF
Clint Sintim, Virginia
Eric Norwood, South Carolina
Clay Matthews, USC
Cody Brown, Connecticut
Matt Shaughnessy, Wisconsin
Stryker Sulak, Missouri


Guys Who Might surprise:

Matt Panfil, TCU
Lawrence Sidbury Jr., Richmond
Jamal Westerman, Rutgers
Brandon Swain, West Texas A&M
Orion Martin, Virginia Tech
Slade Norris, Oregon State
Dan Skuta, Grand Valley State

Shouldn't play 3-4 OLB:

Greg Hardy, Mississippi
Mark Herzlich, Boston College
Maurice Evans, Penn State




I haven't really gotten a chance to focus on the guys that "Might Surprise" But the little bit I have seen say they'll take some work but could be pleasant surprises, maybe in rotation.


Herzlich would be fantastic in a 3-4, but really as an ILB, preferably a Weakside ILB. Clint Sintim would be a perennial pro bowl LILB who attacks the middle like James Farrior. Ricky Sapp has been really disappointing, he has not been getting pressure on the QB and has been a total bust as a junior at Clemson, and he gets hurt too often too. Larry English and Everette Brown I think are two guys who are gonna be phenomenal OLBs in a 3-4. Orakpo too, but that's obvious.

STARHEATHER
12-13-2008, 12:10 PM
how do you figure? he cant beat blockers off the edge? the only time he ever gets near a qb is unblocked. he doesnt even have that many sacks. they dont even use him as a rusher that much. he mostly drops in coverage. one play i saw in a recent game guaranteed me that hes a bust. tyrod taylor on a big 3rd down play in the game drops back to throw takes off running its like 3rd and 15 or something big play in the game. he takes off herzlich is unblocked hes the only man between taylor and getting the first tries to break down taylor jukes and he whiffed by 3 ft. it was the most unathletic tackle attempt ive seen since brian cushing trying to tackle onathan stewart in the open field. im surprised he could still walk on those ankles. taylor gets the first down. point is in the nfl that guy hes coming at is going to be adrian peterson and when he whiffs on that tackle hesnot just going to be getting first downs. hes even a worse prospect than maaluga/laurinitis. and on top of that hes a goofy dope face paint mohawk. how bout making that play on taylor keep your team in the game and leave the clown uninform at home. a cartoon character whos been fortuante enough to have a couple passes thrown right to him. now youre going to put him out there an dexpect him to beat nfl tackles off the edge. right.

Cigaro
12-13-2008, 12:16 PM
Everrette Brown, then Clint Sintim. Then Norwood. Then Cushing.

Babylon
12-13-2008, 12:18 PM
how do you figure? he cant beat blockers off the edge? the only time he ever gets near a qb is unblocked. he doesnt even have that many sacks. they dont even use him as a rusher that much. he mostly drops in coverage. one play i saw in a recent game guaranteed me that hes a bust. tyrod taylor on a big 3rd down play in the game drops back to throw takes off running its like 3rd and 15 or something big play in the game. he takes off herzlich is unblocked hes the only man between taylor and getting the first tries to break down taylor jukes and he whiffed by 3 ft. it was the most unathletic tackle attempt ive seen since brian cushing trying to tackle onathan stewart in the open field. im surprised he could still walk on those ankles. taylor gets the first down. point is in the nfl that guy hes coming at is going to be adrian peterson and when he whiffs on that tackle hesnot just going to be getting first downs. hes even a worse prospect than maaluga/laurinitis. and on top of that hes a goofy dope face paint mohawk. how bout making that play on taylor keep your team in the game and leave the clown uninform at home. a cartoon character whos been fortuante enough to have a couple passes thrown right to him. now youre going to put him out there an dexpect him to beat nfl tackles off the edge. right.

And Matt Hasselbeck juked Brian Urlacher in a playoff game last year. You cant take such a small sample and run with it like that. Herzlich is good in space in the context of being a linebacker. Good to see you're back to bashing Cushing it's been awhile. Sort of like republicans bashing unions, at least you're consistant.

STARHEATHER
12-13-2008, 12:27 PM
i like norwood too, but i actually like him as a 3-4 ilb but he could also be used as a rusher as he has proven a bility beat blockers. and hes a big thumper too and hes a great athlete. excellent football player. his versatility and his prooof he can play muliple roles well is so exciting. i just see him in a lawrence timmins type role. norwood and timmons with harrison and woodley. even if someone gets hurt youre still good you can just move timmons or norwood to outside and you can use them on blitzes. you got 4 freaks who can all get in the backfield at the leite level. he may be the pick for us. thatys a nice looking lb corps going forward then when harrisons done you can just move one of those guys outside. just keep bringing them in. outside of a worthwhile offensive lineman at the spot theyll be picking he would be a very exciting pick if he fell to rd 2 that would be even better.

SenorGato
12-13-2008, 12:53 PM
I'd go with:


Potentially Elite:

Ricky Sapp, Clemson
Brian Orakpo, Texas
Jerry Hughes, TCU


Top Notch:

Everette Brown, FSU
Larry English, NIU
Connor Barwin, Cincinnati
Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech


Above Average:

Brandon Graham, Michigan (If he gets his motor like Woodley he moves up between Top Notch and Elite)
Sergio Kindle, Texas
Brandon Lang, Troy
George Selvie, USF
Clint Sintim, Virginia
Eric Norwood, South Carolina
Clay Matthews, USC
Cody Brown, Connecticut
Matt Shaughnessy, Wisconsin
Stryker Sulak, Missouri


Guys Who Might surprise:

Matt Panfil, TCU
Lawrence Sidbury Jr., Richmond
Jamal Westerman, Rutgers
Brandon Swain, West Texas A&M
Orion Martin, Virginia Tech
Slade Norris, Oregon State
Dan Skuta, Grand Valley State

Shouldn't play 3-4 OLB:

Greg Hardy, Mississippi
Mark Herzlich, Boston College
Maurice Evans, Penn State




I haven't really gotten a chance to focus on the guys that "Might Surprise" But the little bit I have seen say they'll take some work but could be pleasant surprises, maybe in rotation.

I think Hardy, Herzlich, and Evans are 3 of the better OLB prospects. Herzlich is the kind of guy who can play any LBer spot in the 3-4 alignment. I'd start him inside, but he can hold another 15 pounds and be a beast anywhere. Evans is a guy I didn't think could do it, but he's a more fluid player than I thought he was.

The 3-4 is more than just the ability to rush the passer and being undersized for a 4 man front, but I'm seeing alot of thatsona here.

I think Orakpo and Selvie would have a little bit more trouble at this transition than others. I'd list Hardy here too, but I've seen him stand up in Ole Miss' D and personally I feel like he's a little bit more prepped to be put into space than Orakpo and Selvie. Plus, I think he's the best pass rusher in this draft.

Long term I like alot of guys in this draft at 3-4 OLB, but for a certain few it'll be a tough transition. A 3-4 OLB's number #1 job should be to be a well rounded LBer, and thats not something thats easy to do if you're used to playing with your hand on the ground.

I think Everette Brown can be elite as a 3-4 OLB, but draft season'll let that story play out. I love his raw athleticism, and he comes across as a really smart dude with a good head on his shoulder.

Brandon Lang is definitely a name I'm going to keep an eye on.

STARHEATHER
12-13-2008, 12:54 PM
you really think mark herzlich is an nfl pass rusher. based on what

Cigaro
12-13-2008, 12:58 PM
Potentially Elite:

Ricky Sapp, Clemson
Brian Orakpo, Texas
Jerry Hughes, TCU



I agree, 6'4, 240 lbs, 4.4 speed, and two sacks this year. A ******* monster!

STARHEATHER
12-13-2008, 01:00 PM
hes interesting no doubt. just not as much production as one would like to see. hes a loose gifted athlete though

SenorGato
12-13-2008, 01:14 PM
you really think mark herzlich is an nfl pass rusher. based on what

Nah, I think he's a good linebacker.

I prefer him inside in a 3-4 at this stage in his career, but if he can brush up his pass rushing skills dude can be a monster at OLB in a 3-4.

His size, coverage ability, and ability to play in space give him the potential to play any LBer spot in any front.

STARHEATHER
12-13-2008, 01:14 PM
well hes going to have to be a pass rusher if hes going to play 3-4 olb. its their primary function

STARHEATHER
12-13-2008, 01:16 PM
i ust dont get it a player who does not have proven pass rush ability a 3-4 olb. olb= pass rusher first and foremost. so youre going to draft a guy who hasnt proven he can do it. good strategy.

SenorGato
12-13-2008, 01:28 PM
Ah. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I not only forgot that theres only one way to skin a cat, but that guys are usually done developing after they leave school.

Why are you even arguing this stuff with me? I've said every single time I've talked about Herzlich on this board that he should be an ILB first in the 3-4.

STARHEATHER
12-13-2008, 01:52 PM
i dont know if i was answering you specifically. hes not a 3-4 ilb. not physical enough and too limited an athlete.not good enough of a tackler. no pass rush skills. 3-4 ilbs have to be very multidimensional and very physically tough. they have to do it all. i dont think herzlich can do much of any of it at the nfl level. he may be a hunter hillmeyer at best. but since he paints his face and has a mohawk hes probably not as good. looked very bad vs va tech. very bad.

illmatic74
12-13-2008, 01:57 PM
i dont know if i was answering you specifically. hes not a 3-4 ilb. not physical enough and too limited an athlete.not good enough of a tackler. no pass rush skills. 3-4 ilbs have to be very multidimensional and very physically tough. they have to do it all. i dont think herzlich can do much of any of it at the nfl level. he may be a hunter hillmeyer at best. but since he paints his face and has a mohawk hes probably not as good. looked very bad vs va tech. very bad.Really Starheather?

captainjack27
12-13-2008, 02:00 PM
and on top of that hes a goofy dope face paint mohawk. how bout making that play on taylor keep your team in the game and leave the clown uninform at home.

...What does that have to do with anything. John Randle painted his face, did he suck?

STARHEATHER
12-13-2008, 02:08 PM
he would have been better if he hadnt painted his face. theres a reason most guys dont do it. its a problem with needing attention thats how i see it. i dont like guys who want attention. attention is bad. and hes not that good of a player. if he was a john randle level talent im sure hed be rated higher but i still wouldntlike it. its just stupid

captainjack27
12-13-2008, 02:11 PM
he would have been better if he hadnt painted his face. theres a reason most guys dont do it. its a problem with needing attention thats how i see it. i dont like guys who want attention. attention is bad. and hes not that good of a player. if he was a john randle level talent im sure hed be rated higher but i still wouldntlike it. its just stupid

How, just how. Did Painting his face hinder him from playing better. It may have looked crazy, but you still give no valid reason why it made him worse. Maybe he wanted attention, maybe it was for INTIMIDATION. Whatever his reasoning, it doesn't make you any worse of a football player. And to say so is extremely ridiculous, but I'd expect nothing less from you.

illmatic74
12-13-2008, 02:12 PM
he would have been better if he hadnt painted his face. theres a reason most guys dont do it. its a problem with needing attention thats how i see it. i dont like guys who want attention. attention is bad. and hes not that good of a player. if he was a john randle level talent im sure hed be rated higher but i still wouldntlike it. its just stupidJohn Randle was an undrafted free agent. Through intensity and technique he had a Hall of Fame caliber career even though he was only six feet tall. He has more sacks than any DT in history. But he would have been better if he didn't paint his face?

CroomDawgs
12-13-2008, 02:15 PM
The fact someone paints his face and has a certain Haircut makes them less of a prospect? Your joking right

illmatic74
12-13-2008, 02:22 PM
The fact someone paints his face and has a certain Haircut makes them less of a prospect? Your joking rightAny prospect that wears those thin elbow pads stock falls down 3 rounds for me. They have no purpose so it shows a player's lack of judgement.

SenorGato
12-13-2008, 02:29 PM
Any prospect that wears those thin elbow pads stock falls down 3 rounds for me. They have no purpose so it shows a player's lack of judgement.

Also shows he's not tough enough, because real NFL players are men who don't care about hurt elbows AND he probably does it more for fashion (woman) reasons.

STARHEATHER
12-13-2008, 02:33 PM
i have my angles.you have yours. i cant be in meetings or around or in practices to know their minds so you have to go with how they act and present themselves. clown or professional wrestler isnt exactly what id like to see representing my team. he presents himself as a clown. john randle was kind of a weirdo though.

CroomDawgs
12-13-2008, 02:35 PM
i have my angles.you have yours. i cant be in meetings or around or in practices to know their minds so you have to go with how they act and present themselves. clown or professional wrestler isnt exactly what id like to see representing my team. he presents himself as a clown. john randle was kind of a weirdo though.
Your angle is completely stupid. He puts on facepaint makes himm less of a prospect. How? Please explain how paint makes him a worse prospect.

SenorGato
12-13-2008, 02:36 PM
i like norwood too, but i actually like him as a 3-4 ilb but he could also be used as a rusher as he has proven a bility beat blockers. and hes a big thumper too and hes a great athlete. excellent football player. his versatility and his prooof he can play muliple roles well is so exciting. i just see him in a lawrence timmins type role. norwood and timmons with harrison and woodley. even if someone gets hurt youre still good you can just move timmons or norwood to outside and you can use them on blitzes. you got 4 freaks who can all get in the backfield at the leite level. he may be the pick for us. thatys a nice looking lb corps going forward then when harrisons done you can just move one of those guys outside. just keep bringing them in. outside of a worthwhile offensive lineman at the spot theyll be picking he would be a very exciting pick if he fell to rd 2 that would be even better.

Agreed on Norwood. He reminds me of Antwan Barnes, but with better pedigree.

STARHEATHER
12-13-2008, 02:44 PM
like i said. i have my angles you have yours.i dont like players who put makeup on. i wouldnt walk into my job with face paint and a mohawk. it says something about him. i dont like what it says.

CroomDawgs
12-13-2008, 02:56 PM
Most jobs don't require you to be intense and intimidating and hitting people. You don't walk into work with a helmet and shoulder pads. The business world requires you to be clean-cut, presentable, and well-spoken. SPorts? Hockey players look like lumberjacks with their hair and beards. NBA players look better now that theres a dress code, and but look at all the tattoos players have all over their bodies. I have 3 tattoo's but their on my arms and middle back so that if i get a business job they will not be seen. Stephon arbury has the starbury logo on his head. LeBron, Larry hughes, Carmelo. Have you seen their chests? its like a graffitti wall. Its not a knock on them but in the business world its not professional. Hell look at jeremy Shockey's and Kellen Winslow's arms if someone applied for a job with arms like theres they'd be up against it because of that. But its not a business world. Its sports. and its not a knock to look like that.

STARHEATHER
12-13-2008, 03:00 PM
how is clown makeup intimidating? you think nfl lineman will be intimidated by clown makeup?if you need makeup to raise your intensity level is that good? i like my players clean cut and presentable. as does the nfl.

CroomDawgs
12-13-2008, 03:02 PM
how is clown makeup intimidating? you think nfl lineman will be intimidated by clown makeup?if you need makeup to raise your intensity level is that good? i like my players clean cut and presentable. as does the nfl.


A clown is a red afro and a beeper nose. Why don't you ask John Randle if its intimidating. Or Brandon Carter the center from Texas Tech. Players who dress like that and go all out?Its intimidating. I'm guessing you've never played a down of football.

Mr. Stiller
12-13-2008, 03:31 PM
Herzlich would be fantastic in a 3-4, but really as an ILB, preferably a Weakside ILB. Clint Sintim would be a perennial pro bowl LILB who attacks the middle like James Farrior. Ricky Sapp has been really disappointing, he has not been getting pressure on the QB and has been a total bust as a junior at Clemson, and he gets hurt too often too. Larry English and Everette Brown I think are two guys who are gonna be phenomenal OLBs in a 3-4. Orakpo too, but that's obvious.

I agree about Herzlich as a fantastic SILB for a team that likes to blitz their ILB's. If there was a guy in the next 2 years that I'd love to replace Farrior with down the line, Herzlich is a guy I look at very very heavily.

Sintim is another guy I think that will be a mediocre OLB, but one of the more consistent top of the league ILB's.

Sapp has been disappointing, but I was watching Philip Merling last year pretty heavily and Sapp just kept jumping off the screen. This season has been marred with injuries so I expect him to stay, but if he stays healthy and develops a bit more, he could be the next DeMarcus Ware.

I love Larry English, he's not going to be flashy, but he's going to be a high energy, high motor nasty player. Same with Hughes.

Everette Brown to me really fits that "Boom or Bust" type label IMO. I think he could be either a great or terrible OLB in a 3-4. I don't see him having any middle ground. I think he's a better prospect than Wimbley, but, I don't know if he'd be better off in a Tampa type defense.



Just a note. I think San Francisco should seriously consider moving Manny Lawson inside to play next to Willis. Willis at the Mack, Lawson as the Buck. His 2 best qualities are his ability in coverage and against the run from what I've seen this season. SF would have a pretty insane defense if they can get a legit passrusher across from Haralson.

Iamcanadian
12-13-2008, 03:43 PM
I didn't reference stats at all...I simply stated that when USC goes into sub packages mainly on third downs Cushing comes off the field. This isn't something I want to see from a supposedly "top LB" in the country.

USC is loaded with talent and their HC insists that they all play even the freshman. I don't think pro scouts will care one iota that he comes off in certain situations, that is just one way Pete Carroll is able to get his younger players on the field and has nothing to do with Cushing's ability.
You take away the injuries and this guy is a top 5 prospect. He has it all.
Just for your information, even with all the injuries Mayock has him ranked as the #9th ranked senior in the draft.

HellonEarth84
12-13-2008, 03:45 PM
IMO the DE/OLB conversion success really depends on the coaching as well.

Someone like Shawn Merriman is 6'4 275lbs and dominates at OLB. Most would say he's too big for OLB and he won't have the hips or speed for it, but he's done just fine. It all depends how the DC uses the player. I think any of these guys could succeed at OLB in the right scheme.


I like George Selvie. He needs to add a little bit of weight, and he has the frame to do so. I've read rumors that he's only about 235lbs this year so it will be interesting to see how he weighs in at the Combine. His motor is incredible and he constantly makes plays in the back field. I like what I've seen as far as him playing in open space. Very focused and concentrated. He doesn't mess up much and is probably the best tackler of all these hybrids. Hard worker who doesnt give up.

Everette Brown has the best first step. He gets off the snap quicker than anyone. Has a great repertoire of rush moves.

Mr. Stiller
12-13-2008, 03:53 PM
A clown is a red afro and a beeper nose. Why don't you ask John Randle if its intimidating. Or Brandon Carter the center from Texas Tech. Players who dress like that and go all out?Its intimidating. I'm guessing you've never played a down of football.

I thought Carter was the Oaf of a RT that pretty much lines up at a 90 degree angle to the ground at his waist.

He's big, fat, slow and isn't as strong as he should. Roy Miller had his way with him. It's just a testament to how good Harrell is and how bad the texas Secondary is this year.


Agreed on Norwood. He reminds me of Antwan Barnes, but with better pedigree.

I see a size similarity but Norwood doesn't have Barnes athleticism or nastiness. I do think he's a better blitzer/passrusher out of the box however.


I agree, 6'4, 240 lbs, 4.4 speed, and two sacks this year. A ******* monster!

He's been injured all season. I've watched him the last 2 years. He has all the tools to be an elite OLB, if he continues to develop and Stays healthy.

He has literally the same Makeup as a player as DeMarcus Ware. A little lighter, but a little faster/more agile as well.

I think Hardy, Herzlich, and Evans are 3 of the better OLB prospects. Herzlich is the kind of guy who can play any LBer spot in the 3-4 alignment. I'd start him inside, but he can hold another 15 pounds and be a beast anywhere. Evans is a guy I didn't think could do it, but he's a more fluid player than I thought he was.

The 3-4 is more than just the ability to rush the passer and being undersized for a 4 man front, but I'm seeing alot of thatsona here.

I think Orakpo and Selvie would have a little bit more trouble at this transition than others. I'd list Hardy here too, but I've seen him stand up in Ole Miss' D and personally I feel like he's a little bit more prepped to be put into space than Orakpo and Selvie. Plus, I think he's the best pass rusher in this draft.

Long term I like alot of guys in this draft at 3-4 OLB, but for a certain few it'll be a tough transition. A 3-4 OLB's number #1 job should be to be a well rounded LBer, and thats not something thats easy to do if you're used to playing with your hand on the ground.

I think Everette Brown can be elite as a 3-4 OLB, but draft season'll let that story play out. I love his raw athleticism, and he comes across as a really smart dude with a good head on his shoulder.

Brandon Lang is definitely a name I'm going to keep an eye on.

Herzlich. I love the guys skillset and while he could be a decent OLB, he would be even better inside. He's shown his tenacity against the run, in coverage and as a blitzer. Let him continue to do those things he excels at instead of trying to make him Bobby Carpenter 2.0.

Evans, I just don't think he'll be good enough at OLB. I didn't think Tamba Hali was either and he's a pretty damn good 4-3 DE. I think Evans is the same makeup. Let him play DE for a 4-3 team, thats where he'll do best.

Hardy, I'm a bit iffy on. I think he, like Evans might be better off just playing with his hand down and doing the occasional zone drop/flats coverage than worrying about being in space and playing standup. Not that he couldn't do it, I just think him coming out of his stance that explosive is very impressive, don't take him away from his first step.

I'm not saying you have to be fast and undersized. Heck I'm saying Evans/Hardy likely won't do it... but the fact of the matter is to play LB in any scheme you have to have the athleticism for it.

There's some guys I like and don't like for 3-4 OLB, those are some of them

Babylon
12-13-2008, 04:07 PM
USC is loaded with talent and their HC insists that they all play even the freshman. I don't think pro scouts will care one iota that he comes off in certain situations, that is just one way Pete Carroll is able to get his younger players on the field and has nothing to do with Cushing's ability.
You take away the injuries and this guy is a top 5 prospect. He has it all.
Just for your information, even with all the injuries Mayock has him ranked as the #9th ranked senior in the draft.

He actually has been on the field more in obvious passing situations as the season has gone on. FWIW Rey Rey or any of the other backers don't play every down, as you pointed out. As for the injuries i think that has been overblown a bit. He had some injuries in his soph year and last year a guy flat out clipped him in the back of the legs sort of messing up half his season. To me that isnt a guy who is injury prone. I'm looking forward to seeing what his bench press and 40 time is.

CroomDawgs
12-13-2008, 04:32 PM
I thought Carter was the Oaf of a RT that pretty much lines up at a 90 degree angle to the ground at his waist.

He's big, fat, slow and isn't as strong as he should. Roy Miller had his way with him. It's just a testament to how good Harrell is and how bad the texas Secondary is this year.

He might be I'm not sure to be honest all I know is every big texas tech game Brent Musberger would call him a beast and i'd laugh because he looks ridiculously unathletic. Still you gotta admire his passion for the game, even if he's not going to be playing football after college.

captainjack27
12-13-2008, 04:35 PM
like i said. i have my angles you have yours.i dont like players who put makeup on. i wouldnt walk into my job with face paint and a mohawk. it says something about him. i dont like what it says.

You still don't answer the question, because you're wrong. You said wearing makeup makes u less of a prospect. When in no way shape or form can that make ur strength, speed, intelligence, etc, any worse.

captainjack27
12-13-2008, 04:36 PM
YMost jobs don't require you to be intense and intimidating and hitting people.you don't walk into work with a helmet and shoulder pads. The business world requires you to be clean-cut, presentable, and well-spoken. SPorts? Hockey players look like lumberjacks with their hair and beards. NBA players look better now that theres a dress code, and but look at all the tattoos players have all over their bodies. I have 3 tattoo's but their on my arms and middle back so that if i get a business job they will not be seen. Stephon arbury has the starbury logo on his head. LeBron, Larry hughes, Carmelo. Have you seen their chests? its like a graffitti wall. Its not a knock on them but in the business world its not professional. Hell look at jeremy Shockey's and Kellen Winslow's arms if someone applied for a job with arms like theres they'd be up against it because of that. But its not a business world. Its sports. and its not a knock to look like that.

Terry Tate begs to differ on business world intensity.

SenorGato
12-13-2008, 05:15 PM
I agree about Herzlich as a fantastic SILB for a team that likes to blitz their ILB's. If there was a guy in the next 2 years that I'd love to replace Farrior with down the line, Herzlich is a guy I look at very very heavily.

Sintim is another guy I think that will be a mediocre OLB, but one of the more consistent top of the league ILB's.

Sapp has been disappointing, but I was watching Philip Merling last year pretty heavily and Sapp just kept jumping off the screen. This season has been marred with injuries so I expect him to stay, but if he stays healthy and develops a bit more, he could be the next DeMarcus Ware.

I love Larry English, he's not going to be flashy, but he's going to be a high energy, high motor nasty player. Same with Hughes.

Everette Brown to me really fits that "Boom or Bust" type label IMO. I think he could be either a great or terrible OLB in a 3-4. I don't see him having any middle ground. I think he's a better prospect than Wimbley, but, I don't know if he'd be better off in a Tampa type defense.



Just a note. I think San Francisco should seriously consider moving Manny Lawson inside to play next to Willis. Willis at the Mack, Lawson as the Buck. His 2 best qualities are his ability in coverage and against the run from what I've seen this season. SF would have a pretty insane defense if they can get a legit passrusher across from Haralson.

I agree with this entire post.

Brown is boom and bust for me too. I love him as a prospect, but the DE to OLB transition can take a while and isn't really easy. Even if he is as athletic as I believe, there still is that transition phase from playing with your hand down to playing in space. If he gets drafted as a 3-4 OLB, theres no player in this draft I'll be rooting for more. He's a good dude who works hard to be good at this stuff...can't really ask for much more from a guy as talented as he is.

Sapp really has been disappointing this year. I had a gut feeling one of he or Kindle would disappoint this year, and I'm kind of disappointed that I'm right. Both of them matured a little more physically and put on weight, but Sapp just didn't kick it up that notch as a player. Sucks, but whatever...his bad for not realizing how competitive this stuff is. If he doesn't come out, I hope he has a good season. Bowers getting more snaps should take some
attention off of Sapp and allow him to do his thing more often.

Sintim as a 3-4 ILB is going to be Dansby-esque. Many see the sack numbers and that he plays OLB in Groh's 3-4 and say that he must be a 3-4 OLB as a pro. It's not so much that he CAN'T play OLB in a 3-4, it's just that he's a good all around linebacker and I'd rather put that inside. Like Herzlich (and the 2 ILBs from Bama), he's just a good linebacker. I'd rather put that inside. One of the 3-4's advantages is that you get to put more athletes on the field. As those athletes learn the system, they become guys you can just move inside, outside, up, down, side to side, and whatever else you want. It's fun that way.

CroomDawgs
12-13-2008, 06:21 PM
Terry Tate begs to differ on business world intensity.

LOL, +rep

captainjack27
12-13-2008, 06:22 PM
LOL, +rep

muchos gracias

STARHEATHER
12-13-2008, 06:30 PM
never ever not a chance gor my steelers do we want a goofball like herzlich who isnt even a good player. we dont bring in dudes who wear face paint and miss tackles.herzlich as pass rush threat is pure myth. hes rapidly becoming my least favorite player. i cant believe any sane man would want to put him on our team and infect our defense with bad play and stupid attention grabbing antics while he misses tackles and gets run over. replace ames farrior with mark herzlich my god the thought is just too horrible to imagine. i generally dont get emotionally involved with prospects but the idea of so called 'fans" wanting to bring this goofy dan connor clone on my team and turn it into a circus thats ust too much. just dont say that type stuff hype him up for someone else so we can own them. but please dont plant seeds of this clown in black and gold. no i wont allow it.

CroomDawgs
12-13-2008, 06:33 PM
never ever not a chance gor my steelers do we want a goofball like herzlich who isnt even a good player. we dont bring in dudes who wear face paint and miss tackles.herzlich as pass rush threat is pure myth. hes rapidly becoming my least favorite player. i cant believe any sane man would want to put him on our team and infect our defense with bad play and stupid attention grabbing antics while he misses tackles and gets run over. replace ames farrior with mark herzlich my god the thought is just too horrible to imagine. i generally dont get emotionally involved with prospects but the idea of so called 'fans" wanting to bring this goofy dan connor clone on my team and turn it into a circus thats ust too much. just dont say that type stuff hype him up for someone else so we can own them. but please dont plant seeds of this clown in black and gold. no i wont allow it.

I wasn't hyping him for facepainting, i was calling your notion of people who wear face paint are lesser prospects stupid which it is.

STARHEATHER
12-13-2008, 06:48 PM
it says something about him. i dont like what it says. it says goofball. i dont like goofballs. i like solid characters who are low key. i think it works better than some circus. the nfl doesnt like circus acts. hes like the boz. same hype. stupid mohawk face paint. same overrated talent. boz jr.

Babylon
12-13-2008, 06:50 PM
never ever not a chance gor my steelers do we want a goofball like herzlich who isnt even a good player. we dont bring in dudes who wear face paint and miss tackles.herzlich as pass rush threat is pure myth. hes rapidly becoming my least favorite player. i cant believe any sane man would want to put him on our team and infect our defense with bad play and stupid attention grabbing antics while he misses tackles and gets run over. replace ames farrior with mark herzlich my god the thought is just too horrible to imagine. i generally dont get emotionally involved with prospects but the idea of so called 'fans" wanting to bring this goofy dan connor clone on my team and turn it into a circus thats ust too much. just dont say that type stuff hype him up for someone else so we can own them. but please dont plant seeds of this clown in black and gold. no i wont allow it.


Sort of in the same ballpark as your Steelers great MLB Jack Lambert if you ask me. :shock:

CroomDawgs
12-13-2008, 06:50 PM
it says something about him. i dont like what it says. it says goofball. i dont like goofballs. i like solid characters who are low key. i think it works better than some circus. the nfl doesnt like circus acts. hes like the boz. same hype. stupid mohawk face paint. same overrated talent. boz jr.



It may say he's a goofball. May say he's a passionate player. Its how the coaches see it, not you.

And so what if he's a lively player. Hines Ward is always laughing and having fun out there. Clinton Portis has about 45 alter egos for post game interviews. Quit acting like this is a big red flag its not.

STARHEATHER
12-13-2008, 06:54 PM
what does face painting have to with being passionate. does it make one more passionate. he thinks hes some warrior or vampire or indian chief or something. weirdo

Babylon
12-13-2008, 06:58 PM
what does face painting have to with being passionate. does it make one more passionate. he thinks hes some warrior or vampire or indian chief or something. weirdo


Face paint, jewelry, tatoos. Really who gives a ####. just evaluate the guy on his ability and stop obsessing of bs.

SuperKevin
12-13-2008, 06:58 PM
what does face painting have to with being passionate. does it make one more passionate. he thinks hes some warrior or vampire or indian chief or something. weirdo

Or it makes him a 21 year old who's still trying to make football fun

STARHEATHER
12-13-2008, 07:02 PM
it goes to his mental makeup.dont worry about it thats my angle. and on the field hes not all that good hes had a couple balls thrown in his hands and been in the right place on a couple fumbles. otherwise hes not good.

Babylon
12-13-2008, 07:09 PM
it goes to his mental makeup.dont worry about it thats my angle. and on the field hes not all that good hes had a couple balls thrown in his hands and been in the right place on a couple fumbles. otherwise hes not good.


That really makes more sense, i could care less about someone's antics as long as he keeps his nose clean and plays football. He's really good in coverage by the way, great range and hands. My guess is he'd make a heck of a TE.

Don Vito
12-13-2008, 07:13 PM
it goes to his mental makeup.dont worry about it thats my angle. and on the field hes not all that good hes had a couple balls thrown in his hands and been in the right place on a couple fumbles. otherwise hes not good.

I don't even know why I am acknowledging this post or anything you write for that matter, but I seriously doubt you have ever seen Herzlich play. Even if those "couple balls thrown in his hands" were all he did this season, all of those interceptions were extremely difficult catches and athletic plays. They were not "thrown in his hands". Herzlich has been a force all season, which is why he won ACC DPOY. You just confirmed that you have never seen Herzlich play or he beat the **** out of you in middle school and you're still bitter about it.

Babylon
12-13-2008, 07:18 PM
I don't even know why I am acknowledging this post or anything you write for that matter, but I seriously doubt you have ever seen Hezlich play. Even if those "couple balls thrown in his hands" were all he did this season, all of those interceptions were extremely difficult catches and athletic plays. They were not "thrown in his hands". Herzlich has been a force all season, which is why he won ACC DPOY. You just confirmed that you have never seen Herzlich play or he beat the **** out of you in middle school and you're still bitter about it.


Still nothing new on his coming out? This would be the time of the year when they would float a comment or two out there and look for reaction. I think it's safe to say he'll go very early next year but the injury possibilty would scare me. Maybe he just likes life up there in Chestnut Hill.

Don Vito
12-13-2008, 07:22 PM
There is a very slim chance Herzlich comes out. He has said that he is staying, and I know that doesn't mean much, but Herzy wants to graduate and BC rarely loses players.

SenorGato
12-13-2008, 07:48 PM
what does face painting have to with being passionate. does it make one more passionate. he thinks hes some warrior or vampire or indian chief or something. weirdo

Complete and utter fail.

STARHEATHER
12-13-2008, 07:56 PM
ok i guess if you say so. i guess yiou get some secret boost from face paint. everyone should be doing it. the new hgh.

CashmoneyDrew
12-13-2008, 08:00 PM
ok i guess if you say so. i guess yiou get some secret boost from face paint. everyone should be doing it. the new hgh.

And you get some magic decline from it too? According to you he does.

SenorGato
12-13-2008, 08:17 PM
ok i guess if you say so. i guess yiou get some secret boost from face paint. everyone should be doing it. the new hgh.

Maybe. I just see a good player with paint mask on. I don't assume I know the influences...who even cares what they are? Is he getting thrown in jail? Is he doing anything actually wrong? Or is it some psycho thing you have against facepaint on athletes?

If he was acting like he was in the WWF or E or CW or whatever it is now...then sure. But otherwise you're just spewing garbage out.

Mr. Stiller
12-14-2008, 04:15 PM
never ever not a chance gor my steelers do we want a goofball like herzlich who isnt even a good player. we dont bring in dudes who wear face paint and miss tackles.herzlich as pass rush threat is pure myth. hes rapidly becoming my least favorite player. i cant believe any sane man would want to put him on our team and infect our defense with bad play and stupid attention grabbing antics while he misses tackles and gets run over. replace ames farrior with mark herzlich my god the thought is just too horrible to imagine. i generally dont get emotionally involved with prospects but the idea of so called 'fans" wanting to bring this goofy dan connor clone on my team and turn it into a circus thats ust too much. just dont say that type stuff hype him up for someone else so we can own them. but please dont plant seeds of this clown in black and gold. no i wont allow it.

Herzlich would be amazing as the future for Farrior at SILB.