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View Full Version : Aaron Kampman > Jared Allen


bigbluedefense
09-17-2008, 02:46 PM
Yup.


Discuss.

giantsfan
09-17-2008, 02:48 PM
Kampman's been in GB for a while, Allen and that coaching staff are still figuring out how to best utilize him whereas GB has had a lot of time to get comfortable with what Kampman can do.

bigbluedefense
09-17-2008, 02:50 PM
Kampman's been in GB for a while, Allen and that coaching staff are still figuring out how to best utilize him whereas GB has had a lot of time to get comfortable with what Kampman can do.

Best utilize him? He's a DE. He either plays on the right, or the left.

Rush the passer. Plug and chug.


Kampman has been the most disrespected pass rusher in the league the past 3 years. Steady Eddie, he's consistently at the top of the pass rushing list, and is one of the best run stuffing DEs.

He also has less help on that line. He just shows up to work every sunday and gets it done.

The Dynasty
09-17-2008, 02:51 PM
Kampman - Has 43.5 Sacks in 6 Seasons and 2 games

Allen - Has 44.0 Sacks in 4 Season and 2 Games.

I know Stats doesnt mean everything but 2 years ahead and almost the same sack count in a career....I think it might be Kampman < Allen sack wise.

Both pretty good.

Addict
09-17-2008, 02:51 PM
I'd say they're about equals... same type of DE, both had great season last year. I guess you could argue Allen is better, careerwise he's got .5 sack more than Kampman, while playing 2 seasons less. But Kampman did get more sacks over the past two years (27.5 to Allen's 23)... but I'd say they tie.

bored of education
09-17-2008, 02:52 PM
Jared Allen is a better pass rusher, Kampman is slighty better run stuffing. I dunno though pretty equal.

bigbluedefense
09-17-2008, 02:53 PM
Kampman - Has 43.5 Sacks in 6 Seasons and 2 games

Allen - Has 44.0 Sacks in 4 Season and 2 Games.

I know Stats doesnt mean everything but 2 years ahead and almost the same sack count in a career....I think it might be Kampman < Allen.

meh, Kampman similar to Strahan, started out slow. i do admit though, that kind of shat on my argument.

I will make this statement: Kampman will finish with more sacks than Allen this year.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-17-2008, 02:55 PM
Best utilize him? He's a DE. He either plays on the right, or the left.

Rush the passer. Plug and chug.


Kampman has been the most disrespected pass rusher in the league the past 3 years. Steady Eddie, he's consistently at the top of the pass rushing list, and is one of the best run stuffing DEs.

He also has less help on that line. He just shows up to work every sunday and gets it done.

It's not really going to work that way. Strong side and Weakside are two different end positions. Not to mention now he is in a different confrence, and division, so they may handle him alot better than teams in KC's division.

Because of the ability to stop the run, the Vikings might have their ends contain, rather than crash. Who knows? Then on pass rushing plays, 3rd down, he may be doubled and perhaps doubled and chipped by opposing Rbs. So I can understrand why the production may be low. I don't think it's as easy as plug and chug.

giantsfan
09-17-2008, 02:55 PM
Best utilize him? He's a DE. He either plays on the right, or the left.

Rush the passer. Plug and chug.


Kampman has been the most disrespected pass rusher in the league the past 3 years. Steady Eddie, he's consistently at the top of the pass rushing list, and is one of the best run stuffing DEs.

He also has less help on that line. He just shows up to work every sunday and gets it done.

Allen's a very different pass rusher than Kampman as he's a lot quicker and a little smaller so he doesn't have quite as much with the bull rush. They're different types of guys. So kampman's team-mates know how what he does effects what they do and vice versa better than allen. With time Allen will have a better feel for how his team-mates affect the opposition, making life easier for him.

scottyboy
09-17-2008, 02:56 PM
Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora, Mario Williams, Eric Foster>>>both of them

bigbluedefense
09-17-2008, 02:57 PM
It's not really going to work that way. Strong side and Weakside are two different end positions. Not to mention now he is in a different confrence, and division, so they may handle him alot better than teams in KC's division.

Because of the ability to stop the run, the Vikings might have their ends contain, rather than crash. Who knows? Then on pass rushing plays, 3rd down, he may be doubled and perhaps doubled and chipped by opposing Rbs. So I can understrand why the production may be low. I don't think it's as easy as plug and chug.

I know that. But he's pretty much playing the same position, just on a different team. If anything, he has less gap worries with those big boys inside, which allows him to burn the edge more.

Addict
09-17-2008, 02:58 PM
meh, Kampman similar to Strahan, started out slow. i do admit though, that kind of shat on my argument.

I will make this statement: Kampman will finish with more sacks than Allen this year.

yeah he started pretty slow... 13.5 sacks in his first five seasons isn't very good. For comparison, in the same timespan Allen racked up 43 sacks. Kampman has been better lately, so again, they tie.

As far as Kampman getting more sacks, I'd say that's very well possible. He'll be going up against the Bears' line twice (not their strong point), the Lions' line one more time and the Vikes' right side isn't great either. Plus hes already a sack and a half ahead.

bored of education
09-17-2008, 02:59 PM
white DEs ftw lol

scottyboy
09-17-2008, 03:00 PM
white DEs ftw lol

they're MUCH better than white DB's, that's for sure

Turtlepower
09-17-2008, 03:00 PM
white DEs ftw lol

Chris Long will be greater than both!

Number 10
09-17-2008, 03:03 PM
Agreed...I said it last year and still think Kampman is the best DE in the NFL.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-17-2008, 03:05 PM
I know that. But he's pretty much playing the same position, just on a different team. If anything, he has less gap worries with those big boys inside, which allows him to burn the edge more.

Actually other way around.. Because it's less gaps to worry about teams will try to run to the outside. Meaning he can't keep crashing, and will need to read, fight off blocks, and thus contain to stop the run from the outside. Also, as an offensive guy, I would just run the other way taking Allen out of the game completely to frustrate him.

bigbluedefense
09-17-2008, 03:05 PM
Agreed...I said it last year and still think Kampman is the best DE in the NFL.

I felt that way about him throughout most of last year. But now i rank Mario Williams and Justin Tuck ahead of him.

MetSox17
09-17-2008, 03:07 PM
I felt that way about him throughout most of last year. But now i rank Mario Williams and Justin Tuck ahead of him.

Justin Tuck, the guy that has started, what, two games in his career?

giantsfan
09-17-2008, 03:07 PM
Actually other way around.. Because it's less gaps to worry about teams will try to run to the outside. Meaning he can't keep crashing, and will need to read, fight off blocks, and thus contain to stop the run from the outside. Also, as an offensive guy, I would just run the other way taking Allen out of the game completely to frustrate him.

Exactly why I won't pick one right now until Allen adjusts to his new team-mates.

bigbluedefense
09-17-2008, 03:08 PM
Justin Tuck, the guy that has started, what, two games in his career?

Yeah.

Would you like to see some gametape? Or maybe if I put a star on his helmet, would that change your mind?

Number 10
09-17-2008, 03:08 PM
I felt that way about him throughout most of last year. But now i rank Mario Williams and Justin Tuck ahead of him.

Williams you can make an argument for, without a doubt. Might as well put them 1 and 1a.

Tuck I think is well on his way, but there are things about his pass rush ability that have yet to reach the level of both Mario and Kampman.

giantsfan
09-17-2008, 03:10 PM
Williams you can make an argument for, without a doubt. Might as well put them 1 and 1a.

Tuck I think is well on his way, but there are things about his pass rush ability that have yet to reach the level of both Mario and Kampman.

Tuck's been making a lot of plays since last season. He's not a pure DE like Kampman but I'd rather have him on my line than kampman.

bigbluedefense
09-17-2008, 03:10 PM
Williams you can make an argument for, without a doubt. Might as well put them 1 and 1a.

Tuck I think is well on his way, but there are things about his pass rush ability that have yet to reach the level of both Mario and Kampman.

I don't know. Tuck has that uncanny ability inside at UT. His technique can use some refining though, but he's been so good it hasn't mattered yet.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-17-2008, 03:11 PM
Justin Tuck, the guy that has started, what, two games in his career?

Well yeah, but look at his stats while not techically "starting". And see what he did in his two games. Granted things can change but 9 tackles, 3 sacks, 2 pass defended and 1 int for a TD is a damn good initial follow up to his stats for not starting. And this is only the beggining..

MetSox17
09-17-2008, 03:11 PM
Yeah.

Would you like to see some gametape? Or maybe if I put a star on his helmet, would that change your mind?

No, that's fine. I've heard enough out of you to know how much your opinion is worth.

Number 10
09-17-2008, 03:14 PM
I don't know. Tuck has that uncanny ability inside at UT. His technique can use some refining though, but he's been so good it hasn't mattered yet.

It's hard to compare them as pass rushers because Tuck gets a ton of reps against slower guards, but has less space to work with. Kampman is up against better pass blockers but has more room to run around. As a defensive end, purely defensive end, Kampman is a couple notches better. As an all around player, Tuck could be mentioned on the same level.

Over the years I have become less and less attracted to any sort of player rankings, especially here. Both are outstanding players that bring something different to the table.

bigbluedefense
09-17-2008, 03:14 PM
Anyway, back on topic.

What I love the most of Kampman is how he uses his hands and leverage. He reminds me a lot of Strahan in this sense.

Allen also does a great job of this, however he uses more speed techniques compared to Kampman's strength based game.

Number 10
09-17-2008, 03:16 PM
Justin Tuck, the guy that has started, what, two games in his career?

Does starting really matter? Ask Tom Brady.

bigbluedefense
09-17-2008, 03:17 PM
It's hard to compare them as pass rushers because Tuck gets a ton of reps against slower guards, but has less space to work with. Kampman is up against better pass blockers but has more room to run around. As a defensive end, purely defensive end, Kampman is a couple notches better. As an all around player, Tuck could be mentioned on the same level.

Over the years I have become less and less attracted to any sort of player rankings, especially here. Both are outstanding players that bring something different to the table.

thats true.

I really made this thread moreso to bring up Kampman's name more than anything. He's so slept on, and its BS in my opinion that he rarely gets his name mentioned.

MetSox17
09-17-2008, 03:18 PM
Does starting really matter? Ask Tom Brady.

I meant that to point out his lack of production at a high level for a sustained amount of time. But nevermind, i don't wanna get in an argument about a Giants player with Giants fans.

He's the best there is though, for sure. :rolleyes:

giantsfan
09-17-2008, 03:18 PM
No, that's fine. I've heard enough out of you to know how much your opinion is worth.

more than yours? I mean if we're talking about informational content and thought put into the post as a basis for evaluation. I'm sure your have a great personality though.

Marlo
09-17-2008, 03:19 PM
Since the start of the 2006 season, Kampman leads the league with 23.5 sacks. I think he's as good of DE as you'll find in the NFL right now. He has been elite since the start of 2006 and I think you can argue him over pretty much anybody since that time period.

Number 10
09-17-2008, 03:19 PM
I broke down the Vikes defense the other day, meaning I watched Allen on every defensive snap. He was flat out dominating once Ugoh went down early with an injury. He has outstanding explosion off the snap and once he gets position on the edge, there is no pushing him around. The one thing I question about his game against the pass is his ability to attack inside shoulders. He is one strong mother but it doesn't seem to translate when he needs it to break through the inside shoulder. Kampman has no such problem and probably has a wider assortment of pass rush moves.

giantsfan
09-17-2008, 03:19 PM
I meant that to point out his lack of production at a high level for a sustained amount of time. But nevermind, i don't wanna get in an argument about a Giants player with Giants fans.

He's the best there is though, for sure. :rolleyes:

Liar, he's the best there is, was or ever will be...once in a century player.

Number 10
09-17-2008, 03:21 PM
I meant that to point out his lack of production at a high level for a sustained amount of time. But nevermind, i don't wanna get in an argument about a Giants player with Giants fans.

He's the best there is though, for sure. :rolleyes:

Good idea...I made some people look like fools when they said the SAME thing about Osi vs. Peppers.

bigbluedefense
09-17-2008, 03:23 PM
I broke down the Vikes defense the other day, meaning I watched Allen on every defensive snap. He was flat out dominating once Ugoh went down early with an injury. He has outstanding explosion off the snap and once he gets position on the edge, there is no pushing him around. The one thing I question about his game against the pass is his ability to attack inside shoulders. He is one strong mother but it doesn't seem to translate when he needs it to break through the inside shoulder. Kampman has no such problem and probably has a wider assortment of pass rush moves.

doesn't Kampman remind you of Strahan?

Allen does have one edge over Kampman: I think his game is more interchangeable, whereas Kampman's style is more of a pure LE.

rockio42
09-17-2008, 03:24 PM
Chris Long will be greater than both!

Hellz to the ya

Number 10
09-17-2008, 03:26 PM
doesn't Kampman remind you of Strahan?

Allen does have one edge over Kampman: I think his game is more interchangeable, whereas Kampman's style is more of a pure LE.

Eh. In the sense that they both can dominate a side of the line with their ability to stuff the run and the passer, yes. But I think Strahan was at a higher level in his prime. Kampman does not physically jolt defenders the way Strahan did. And Strahan was quicker off the edge and had a much stronger bull rush.

bigbluedefense
09-17-2008, 03:28 PM
Eh. In the sense that they both can dominate a side of the line with their ability to stuff the run and the passer, yes. But I think Strahan was at a higher level in his prime. Kampman does not physically jolt defenders the way Strahan did. And Strahan was quicker off the edge and had a much stronger bull rush.

oh i agree, i meant similar games. i shouldve said "poor man's strahan" to be more accurate.

drowe
09-17-2008, 04:01 PM
lovin' the kampman love.

yeah, he's a very complete player. run or pass. it's hard to rank him against guys like Mario Williams and Justin Tuck...they just haven't been playing long enough to form an accurate opinion.

but, he's a great DE, has awesome work ethic and no ego. the Packers are lucky to have a lot of people like that on the team.

Bruce Banner
09-17-2008, 04:07 PM
No, that's fine. I've heard enough out of you to know how much your opinion is worth.

But defense is in my name! I am the end all be all on defense!

PACKmanN
09-17-2008, 04:29 PM
The thing I think Kampman does better then Allen is leverage and staying low vs. the tackle, while Allen is always playing higher then he should, making it easier for the tackle.

Other then that, both their game is equal good.

Plus I think Kampman official became a starter in his 04 season.

Menardo75
09-17-2008, 08:50 PM
They are both very good. I would say right now that Kampman plays the run a little better. A tough question though.

GB12
09-17-2008, 08:50 PM
meh, Kampman similar to Strahan, started out slow. i do admit though, that kind of shat on my argument.

I will make this statement: Kampman will finish with more sacks than Allen this year.
I've thought that all off season and have always thought that Kampman is better or at least their both very close. In the offseason when I said that I was called a homer and was told that Allen is far better.
Allen's a very different pass rusher than Kampman as he's a lot quicker and a little smaller so he doesn't have quite as much with the bull rush. Nice try but you're completely wrong besides that Kampman uses more power moves. Allen is 2 inches taller and 5 pounds heavier according to NFL.com and Kampman ran a 4.65 while Allen ran a 4.88.

Dam8610
09-17-2008, 09:56 PM
Nice try but you're completely wrong besides that Kampman uses more power moves. Allen is 2 inches taller and 5 pounds heavier according to NFL.com and Kampman ran a 4.65 while Allen ran a 4.88.

What were their 10, 20, and short shuttle numbers?

Vikes99ej
09-17-2008, 10:54 PM
Kampman is the most underrated DE in the league for sure.

giantsfan
09-17-2008, 10:56 PM
I've thought that all off season and have always thought that Kampman is better or at least their both very close. In the offseason when I said that I was called a homer and was told that Allen is far better.
Nice try but you're completely wrong besides that Kampman uses more power moves. Allen is 2 inches taller and 5 pounds heavier according to NFL.com and Kampman ran a 4.65 while Allen ran a 4.88.

Who cares about 40 speeds? I'm talking about explosion off the ball, my bad on the size thing but Kampman plays more of a big mans game attacking guys with power, whereas allen uses his strength more to protect his speed attack.

djp
09-17-2008, 11:03 PM
I almost cried tears of joy when we signed him to an offer sheet a couple offseasons back.

They both have their strengths. Allen is so damn quick off the ball. I think as far as pure explosiveness, he is definitely better in that. He doesn't quite have the array of moves that Kampman does, though.

Kampman is obviously the superior leverage guy. I love Allen's pursuit though. He is much faster than you would think. I was at the game last Sunday and he ran Addai down from 5-6 yards behind in a 12 yard window.

adschofield
09-17-2008, 11:03 PM
Perhaps, but Allen's BAC puts him over the top, IMO

djp
09-17-2008, 11:10 PM
Perhaps, but Allen's BAC puts him over the top, IMO

Terrible joke. Not funny.

Try again another time.

adschofield
09-17-2008, 11:13 PM
Terrible joke. Not funny.

Try again another time.

Hey, I tried

bored of education
09-17-2008, 11:17 PM
nice job scho

Menardo75
09-17-2008, 11:35 PM
lol ouch...

Burns336
09-17-2008, 11:57 PM
justin tuck will eat both of their babies.

Menardo75
09-18-2008, 12:01 AM
Not before Justin Smith gets to them :)

Fogartynyy2789
09-18-2008, 12:22 AM
Tuck and Smith will have to wait until Mike Tyson get's up from the table...

Paranoidmoonduck
09-18-2008, 01:09 AM
I haven't had a chance to see Allen play with the Vikings much this year, but I'm not really comfortable calling either as better than the other. Kampman is a great player who doesn't get nearly enough recognition. That said, what Allen did as the only real defensive line threat in Kansas City shouldn't be written off. I saw games where he had three blockers get shoulders into him and he'd still get an arm on the passer. He was annually the very best defensive end at knocking balls out of the air. He was very disruptive against the run (although not always consistent against the run as a result).

iBoldin
09-18-2008, 01:22 AM
You hit it on the nose. I really like Aaron Kampman, and I've been raving about him the last few years now. I think he is the most well rounded defensive end in the league, and one of the best in the NFL right now. Definitely worth being called the top defensive end in the NFL. He can stop the run, and rush the passer, and I think he has one of the best set of hands around as an end.

On Justin Tuck, I definitely see him as a top ten guy right now, and with the ability to evolve into a top five or even top three guy. Do I see an guy who can play exclusively on the end? Right now, I'm not so sure. Many of his techniques, I think are much better suited as a UT. I'm gonna admit, I only saw the Skins game, and parts of the Rams game, but he is certainlty off on the right foot.

That said, do I think Kampman is any better then Jared Allen? Right now, I think they are on the same level, but I would give the upper hand to Aaron based on his ability to do more things on the field then Allen.

TitleTown088
09-18-2008, 01:52 AM
Ok, I love me some Tuck, but whoever the **** said he's better than Kampy already is off their rocker. Come one.

tylerb929
09-18-2008, 09:06 AM
Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora, Mario Williams, Eric Foster>>>both of them

True, but can you really compare a starting nose tackle to defensive ends?

jared
09-18-2008, 11:00 AM
oh i agree, i meant similar games. i shouldve said "poor man's strahan" to be more accurate.

I don't like poor man's Strahan, more like upper middle class man's Strahan. Kampman has been consistently kick-ass for a while now, I wouldn't call him a poor anything.

I love Jared Allen but I appreciate the well-rounded excellence that is Aaron Kampman. One of the best run stopping DE's in the league.

Hawk
09-18-2008, 11:06 AM
I don't like poor man's Strahan, more like upper middle class man's Strahan. Kampman has been consistently kick-ass for a while now, I wouldn't call him a poor anything.

I love Jared Allen but I appreciate the well-rounded excellence that is Aaron Kampman. One of the best run stopping DE's in the league.

As well as one of the best pass rushers in the league.

Menardo75
09-18-2008, 11:25 AM
Yeah one of those gritty guys that does everything well, but does'nt do anything flashy so no one notices. Well almost.

Marlo
09-18-2008, 01:18 PM
Yeah one of those gritty guys that does everything well, but does'nt do anything flashy so no one notices. Well almost.

It's hard not to notice him if you watch Packers games. The true under-appreciated player on that line is Ryan Pickett. He's a top-notch NT against the run and the Packers are a different team when he's not in the lineup.

stephenson86
09-18-2008, 01:22 PM
id take vanden bosch over both

Burns336
09-18-2008, 01:23 PM
Ok, I love me some Tuck, but whoever the **** said he's better than Kampy already is off their rocker. Come one.

I think Tuck is better, he just doesn't have the stats yet. He will though. Tuck and Mario are top 2.

awfullyquiet
09-18-2008, 06:09 PM
What's highly disappointning to me is that...

The minnesota D-Line didn't envelope (yes, envelope) the colts... I don't know why, but with that much talent and weight bearing down on them, I'm not particularly sure that the colts should have theoretically been doing anything...

They were good, just not 'dominant'...