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iBoldin
09-18-2008, 01:33 AM
The Kampman > Allen thread sparked some interest, so I think this could do the same. It got me going, and I don't think a defensive end debate is someting we've had yet. Give us your top tens, or fives.

1. Aaron Kampman
2. Jared Allen
3. Mario Williams
4. Dwight Freeney
5. Julius Peppers
6. Richard Seymour
7. Osi Umenyiora
8. Jason Taylor
9. Aaron Schoebel
10. Trent Cole

I might make a few revisions when I get time, but that's probably how I would have it.

TitleTown088
09-18-2008, 01:46 AM
How can Osi be in the top ten when his knee is chopped up? Either way. Kampy the best? I'm not so sure about that.


Tuck is muy bein.

ShyneQuasiOG22
09-18-2008, 02:05 AM
1. Mario Williams
2. Aaron Kampman
3. Jared Allen
4. Osi Umenyiora (when healthy)
5. Julius Peppers
6. Justin Tuck
7. Patrick Kerney
8. Jason Taylor
9. Dwight Freeney
10. Richard Seymour

vidae
09-18-2008, 02:51 AM
1. Jared Allen
2. Dwight Freeney
3. Aaron Kampman
4. Julius Peppers
5. Osi Umenyiora
6. Richard Seymour
7. Trent Cole
8. Aaron Schoebel
9. Patrick Kerney
10. Kyle Vanden Bosch

wicket
09-18-2008, 03:42 AM
give big will some love

SFbear
09-18-2008, 03:42 AM
Ah-duh-wah-lay Oh-goon-lee-yeah

Not that he belongs on the list, I just like saying it.

Still don't know what Peppers has done recently to warrant being on the list. He couldn't even get a sack on John St. Clair. I mean come on! =)

D-Rod
09-18-2008, 03:56 AM
John Abraham deserves to be on that list somewhere.

Addict
09-18-2008, 04:48 AM
John Abraham deserves to be on that list somewhere.

He's way to injury-prone, which might just drop him out of the top 10. IMO, he could go anywhere between 8-12.

Cribbs>Hester
09-18-2008, 05:12 AM
Richard Seymour is not a traditional DE therefore I'm leaving him off the list.

1. Mario Williams
2. Aaron Kampman
3. Jared Allen
4. Osi Umenyiora
5. Jason Taylor
6. Patrick Kerney
7. Justin Tuck
8. Dwight Freeney
9. Trent Cole
10. Julius Peppers

eaglesalltheway
09-18-2008, 06:57 AM
Well, this is really tough, there are lot of very good DEs. This is just my humble opinion.

1. SuperMario
2. Jared Allen
3. Aaron Kampman
4. Dwight Freeney
5. Osi Umenyiora
6. Justin Tuck
7. Patrick Kerney
8. Trent Cole
9. Aaron Schoebel
10. Jason Taylor

Just missed: Julius Peppers and Vanden Bosch (may benefit from a certain isnide linemen on his team).

Pep would be much higher if he would have been healthy last year and showing something this year, but if he keeps up what he did last year, he may not even sniff the top 20 DEs. Tuck could be higher on the list this time next year, leap frogging Osi, Freeney, and Kampman.

I left out Seymour as his role is not that of these DEs. Otherwise, I'd have him in the 6-8 range.

steelcrew43
09-18-2008, 07:04 AM
how is aaron smith not on these lists?

eaglesalltheway
09-18-2008, 07:08 AM
how is aaron smith not on these lists?

We really shoud have a 3-4 DE top 5 or so as well. He would be in there though.

scottyboy
09-18-2008, 07:16 AM
How can Osi be in the top ten when his knee is chopped up? Either way. Kampy the best? I'm not so sure about that.


Tuck is muy bein.

it's obviously not for thsi season, last year and before the injury, Osi is easily a top 10 de. Tuck isn't there yet, but will be after this season

619
09-18-2008, 07:23 AM
1. Mario Williams
2. Aaron Kampman
3. Jared Allen
4. Osi Umenyiora
5. Patrick Kerney
6. Justin Tuck
7. John Abraham
8. Dwight Freeney
9. Aaron Smith
10. Jason Taylor

MetSox17
09-18-2008, 09:07 AM
Patrick Kerney isn't in anyones top five (aside from 619)? That's a little surprising, cause there's no chance in hell that Dwight Freeney is a better DE than he is.

abaddon41_80
09-18-2008, 09:10 AM
4-3 DEs only (because it is hard to compare them to 3-4 DEs)

1. Jared Allen
2. Aaron Kapman
3. Mario Williams
4. Patrick Kerney
5. Julius Peppers
6. Elvis Dumervil
7. Dwight Freeney
8. Justin Tuck
9. Trent Cole
10. John Abraham

PACKmanN
09-18-2008, 09:11 AM
Patrick Kerney isn't in anyones top five (aside from 619)? That's a little surprising, cause there's no chance in hell that Dwight Freeney is a better DE than he is.

He didn't look so good vs. Buffalo back up RT. IMO, he not a good every game as the others.

MetSox17
09-18-2008, 09:14 AM
He didn't look so good vs. Buffalo back up RT. IMO, he not a good every game as the others.

And you came to that conclusion off of one game?

Rob S
09-18-2008, 09:19 AM
Kerney is a damn good DE. Certainly more complete than Freeney, however, I think Freeney gets the nod over Kerney simply because he is so explosive and has game changer potential on every passing play.

Rob S
09-18-2008, 09:21 AM
He didn't look so good vs. Buffalo back up RT. IMO, he not a good every game as the others.

by that logic the entire seahawks roster kind of blows because they all looked absolutely horrible.

MetSox17
09-18-2008, 09:24 AM
Kerney is a damn good DE. Certainly more complete than Freeney, however, I think Freeney gets the nod over Kerney simply because he is so explosive and has game changer potential on every passing play.

I guess i just value consistency a little more. I'm not the type of person that gets wowed by athleticism and explosiveness if you can only put it to good use once every three plays.

Rob S
09-18-2008, 09:34 AM
I guess i just value consistency a little more. I'm not the type of person that gets wowed by athleticism and explosiveness if you can only put it to good use once every three plays.

well, I suppose it really depends who you have on the other side. If u have another explosive pass rusher that is so-so vs the run, u dont want freeney, but if u have a run stuffer freeney may be #1 on your list.

MetSox17
09-18-2008, 09:37 AM
well, I suppose it really depends who you have on the other side. If u have another explosive pass rusher that is so-so vs the run, u dont want freeney, but if u have a run stuffer freeney may be #1 on your list.

Robert Mathis?

And yeah i get what you're saying. I'd go that route as well, but if you're gonna start a defensive line, i'd get myself the dependable guy, first.

CashmoneyDrew
09-18-2008, 11:22 AM
Kyle Vanden Bosch anyone? The man does it all and and gives it his all every play.

DeathbyStat
09-18-2008, 11:23 AM
aaron smith is severly underrated as a 3-4 d-end

ATLDirtyBirds
09-18-2008, 01:11 PM
Anyone who puts John Abraham in their list, I love.

Vikes99ej
09-18-2008, 01:24 PM
1) Osi Umenyora
2) Aaron Kampmann
3) Jared Allen
4) John Abraham
5) Mario Williams
6) Justin Tuck
7) Patrick Kerney
8) Will Smith
9) Trent Cole
10) Gaines Adams

Burns336
09-18-2008, 01:28 PM
Tuck carried over his SB should-have-been-MVP performance to this year and is top 2 in my eyes. So dominate. Such a force and versatile.

vidae
09-18-2008, 01:30 PM
I think Mario Williams is a very very good player but I don't see how he's #1 on a lot of these lists. He had a great season and it looks like he'll continue to have a very good if not dominant career, but there is no way he is the best DE in the NFL right now.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-18-2008, 01:40 PM
Yeah I thought it was early for Mario Williams too.. Plus people should seperate complete DEs, pass rushing specialists, and 3-4 DEs.

rockio42
09-18-2008, 02:44 PM
Complete DEs

1. Aaron Kampman
2. Jared Allen
3. Patrick Kearney
4. Kyle Vanden Bosch
5. Justin Tuck
6. Aaron Schobel
7. Will Smith
8. Andre Carter
9. Cullen Jenkins
10. Robert Geathers

Pass-Rushing DEs

1. Dwight Freeney
2. Osi Umenyiora
3. Mario Williams
4. Elvis Dumervil
5. Jason Taylor
6. John Abraham
7.Derrick Burgess
8. Julius Peppers
9. Kabeer Gbaja Biamilla
10. Tambi Hali

3-4 DEs

1.Richard Seymour
2. Haolti Ngata
3. Darnell Docket
4. Trevor Pryce
5. Luis Castillo
6. Aaron Smith
7. Ty Warren
8. Shaun Ellis
9. Corey Williams
10. Igor Olshansky

Fogartynyy2789
09-18-2008, 02:49 PM
Did you just rate Tamba Hali as being better at rushing the passer then Julius Peppers, Burgess and KGB???

WOW

ATLDirtyBirds
09-18-2008, 02:52 PM
Did you just rate Tamba Hali as being better at rushing the passer then Julius Peppers, Burgess and KGB???

WOW



Don't you dare forget Abe.

Fogartynyy2789
09-18-2008, 02:54 PM
Don't you dare forget Abe.

He rated Tamba Hali as being better then John Abraham?

WOW

Go_Eagles77
09-18-2008, 03:02 PM
He rated Tamba Hali as being better then John Abraham?

WOW

And Trent Cole...

Splat
09-18-2008, 03:30 PM
Tamba Hali is not even top ten and that is coming from a Chiefs fan he has looked lost since we moved him to RDE he should move back to LDE IMO.

rockio42
09-18-2008, 03:34 PM
Tamba Hali is not even top ten and that is coming from a Chiefs fan he has looked lost since we moved him to RDE he should move back to LDE IMO.

Yah that was my fault, I was just writing down names to give myself a comprehensive list and forgot to moves a couple of the guys around...i'll edit it in just a minute...and I'm going to leave Tamba on the list because what I saw last year was a great young DE and I know he hasn't looked great this year but thats after just 2 games of being at a new position

Matthew Jones
09-18-2008, 04:00 PM
Don't hold me to this, but here's my top-5 3-4 ends and top-10 4-3 ends off the top of my head (probably missed a couple players):

3-4:

1. Ty Warren, Patriots (16 GS, 53 tackles, 4.0 sacks)
2. Richard Seymour, Patriots (8 GS, 23 tackles, 1.5 sacks)
3. Haloti Ngata, Ravens (16 GS, 63 tackles, 3.0 sacks)
4. Luis Castillo, Chargers (9 GS, 33 tackles, 2.5 sacks)
5. Aaron Smith, Steelers (11 GS, 30 tackles, 2.5 sacks)

Seymour was passed by Warren (for now) because Warren has been more durable, consistent, and well-rounded lately. This year, Seymour looks a lot healthier, so he or Ngata might claim the #1 spot. Aaron Smith is still hanging on there as well.

4-3:

1. Jared Allen, Vikings (14 GS, 55 tackles, 14.5 sacks)
2. Mario Williams, Texans (16 GS, 59 tackles, 14.0 sacks)
3. Jason Taylor, Redskins (16 GS, 56 tackles, 11.0 sacks)
4. Aaron Kampman, Packers (15 GS, 64 tackles, 12.0 sacks)
5. Osi Umenyiora, Giants (16 GS, 52 tackles, 13.0 sacks)
6. Justin Tuck, Giants (2 GS, 65 tackles, 10.0 sacks)
7. Kyle Vanden Bosch, Titans (16 GS, 60 tackles, 12.0 sacks)
8. Julius Peppers, Panthers (14 GS, 38 tackles, 2.5 sacks)
9. Dwight Freeney, Colts (9 GS, 21 tackles, 3.5 sacks)
10. Trent Cole, Eagles (16 GS, 70 tackles, 12.5 sacks)

Jared Allen has been a monster lately. Mario gets the edge over Taylor because Taylor has looked bad this year and because Mario plays the run much better. Kampman is close to overtaking Taylor. Osi will probably drop after the season because of his injury, Tuck looks like a strong candidate to move up since he's looked excellent. Vanden Bosch has been very productive lately and plays the run well. Peppers could be top-5 but has looked bad this year and last. If Freeney plays a full season and picks up 12 sacks or so, I expect him to pass at least Vanden Bosch and Peppers and perhaps Umenyiora or Taylor. Cole beat out Aaron Schobel for me, as he's been an excellent pass rusher for Philly.

Shiver
09-18-2008, 04:42 PM
What I love about Defensive Ends like Mario Williams, Jared Allen, Aaron Kampman, and Justin Tuck is they are just as good against the run as they at rushing the passers.

scottyboy
09-18-2008, 05:17 PM
What I love about Defensive Ends like Mario Williams, Jared Allen, Aaron Kampman, and Justin Tuck is they are just as good against the run as they at rushing the passers.

which is why Strahan is one of the greatest of all time, probably a better run stuffer than pass stuffer. Tuck needs to improve his pass rushing a bit more though. And Osi is pretty good against the run

but I agree, Mario is a freak, because he's big AND has the speed. same with Tuck. Kampman and Allen aren't as fast as an Osi, Mario or Tuck, but damn strong, quick and smart

ATLDirtyBirds
09-18-2008, 05:57 PM
Herm Edwards plans to block John Abraham with 3 people. ABE WILL STILL BREAK THROUGH!

Number 10
09-18-2008, 05:58 PM
Seriously guys, get Peppers off your lists.

Number 10
09-18-2008, 06:05 PM
A list from someone who sohuld have cred here when talking defensive ends...

(Keeping Osi off because of the injury)

1 - Aaron Kampman - Packers
2 - Mario Williams - Texans
3 - Jared Allen - Vikings
4 - Richard Seymour - Patriots
5 - Justin Tuck - Giants
6 - Haloti Ngata - Ravens
7 - Patrick Kearney - Seahawks
8 - Will Smith - Saints
9 - John Abraham - Falcons
10 - Trent Cole - Eagles

Breaker
09-18-2008, 06:18 PM
I think Mario Williams is a very very good player but I don't see how he's #1 on a lot of these lists. He had a great season and it looks like he'll continue to have a very good if not dominant career, but there is no way he is the best DE in the NFL right now.

Don't listen to this crazy man! He just still pissed off about Mario raping his entire team with a crumpled up, sandpaper condom in the '07 season opener.

And for anyone that put Mario as your #1, kudos to you. Mario will not disappoint you guys, and he will make you look like geniuses by the end of the year.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-18-2008, 07:24 PM
I don't see how it's too early to place Mario at #1. He came in as a highly touted player, broke out for 14 or whatever sacks last year, and is on pace for 32 this year(yeah, I know). This isn't a career achievement list, no player rankings are unless specified, or else you must think Brett Favre is better than Tom Brady and/or Peyton Manning, and that Kurt Warner is better than Ben Roethlisberger or Drew Brees.

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-18-2008, 07:24 PM
Complete DEs

1. Aaron Kampman
2. Jared Allen
3. Patrick Kearney
4. Kyle Vanden Bosch
5. Justin Tuck
6. Aaron Schobel
7. Will Smith
8. Andre Carter
9. Cullen Jenkins
10. Robert Geathers

Pass-Rushing DEs

1. Dwight Freeney
2. Osi Umenyiora
3. Mario Williams
4. Elvis Dumervil
5. Jason Taylor
6. John Abraham
7.Derrick Burgess
8. Julius Peppers
9. Kabeer Gbaja Biamilla
10. Tambi Hali

3-4 DEs

1.Richard Seymour
2. Haolti Ngata
3. Darnell Docket
4. Trevor Pryce
5. Luis Castillo
6. Aaron Smith
7. Ty Warren
8. Shaun Ellis
9. Corey Williams
10. Igor Olshansky

I really don't understand how Mario Williams is not under the "complete" category.

comahan
09-18-2008, 07:27 PM
Complete DEs

1. Aaron Kampman
2. Jared Allen
3. Patrick Kearney
4. Kyle Vanden Bosch
5. Justin Tuck
6. Aaron Schobel
7. Will Smith
8. Andre Carter
9. Cullen Jenkins
10. Robert Geathers

Pass-Rushing DEs

1. Dwight Freeney
2. Osi Umenyiora
3. Mario Williams
4. Elvis Dumervil
5. Jason Taylor
6. John Abraham
7.Derrick Burgess
8. Julius Peppers
9. Kabeer Gbaja Biamilla
10. Tambi Hali

3-4 DEs

1.Richard Seymour
2. Haolti Ngata
3. Darnell Docket
4. Trevor Pryce
5. Luis Castillo
6. Aaron Smith
7. Ty Warren
8. Shaun Ellis
9. Corey Williams
10. Igor Olshansky

Mario is just as good, maybe better at playing the run than he is at rushing the passer. He is in no way just a pass rusher.

rockio42
09-18-2008, 08:27 PM
I really don't understand how Mario Williams is not under the "complete" category.

I was not putting the same guy under two categories because it made the list a lot easier

MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)
09-18-2008, 08:38 PM
I was not putting the same guy under two categories because it made the list a lot easier

If the categories were "run-stopping" and "pass-rushing" I would understand, but a "complete" DE is one that can both get after the quarterback very well, and stop the run. Placing Mario in the pass rushing category, when a complete category is available makes it seem like he is not an excellent run-stopper, and is wrong.

P-L
09-18-2008, 08:51 PM
Yeah, I don't think it's too early to put Mario at #1. The guy is one of, if not, the best defensive ends against the run and has 12 sacks in his last 8 games. Right now, he's definitely top three and I think a very good argument could be made for #1 overall.

smittyjs
09-18-2008, 09:27 PM
I would put KVB around #7 to #10 top DE's, Super mario is my #1 DE, beast is the only word for him.

rockio42
09-18-2008, 09:41 PM
If the categories were "run-stopping" and "pass-rushing" I would understand, but a "complete" DE is one that can both get after the quarterback very well, and stop the run. Placing Mario in the pass rushing category, when a complete category is available makes it seem like he is not an excellent run-stopper, and is wrong.

duly noted...

GB12
09-18-2008, 10:13 PM
1. Mario Williams
2. Aaron Kampman
3. Jared Allen
4. Justin Tuck
5. Kyle Vanden Bosch
6. Osi Umenyiora
7. Will Smith
8. Patrick Kerney
9. Dwight Freeney
10. John Abraham

Saints-Tigers
09-18-2008, 10:18 PM
I think Will Smith and Charles Grant would be a lot higher if we were still in a defensive scheme similar to Jim Haslett's, where they both excelled, and Will Smith was getting better and better(he had like 8 sacks as the third DE on the team).

Our scheme now almost has them playing like 3-4 DE's, where they occupy blockers and stop the run, it's almost like Sean Payton doesn't like to pressure QB's....

I think they are two guys you really have to watch on a consistent basis to see how excellent they are, and they are both extremely complete.

iBoldin
09-19-2008, 01:20 AM
Upon further review of my late night list, I've made some changes. Here is my 4-3 list.

1. Aaron Kampman
2. Mario Williams
3. Jared Allen
4. Justin Tuck
5. Dwight Freeney
6. Aaron Schoebel
7. Kyle Vanden Bosch
8. Trent Cole
9. Jason Taylor
10. Will Smith

I left Umenyiora off the list this time, because of obvious reasons. After reviewing it though, there are a ton of quality defensive ends. Like we're talkin' 20-25 great defensive ends. I'm surprised Schoebel isn't a lot higher on people's lists, as well.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-19-2008, 01:33 AM
I'm not sure he deserves top 10 billing, but Derrick Burgess should get some credit for what he's done since he came to Oakland.

Last three years...

Derrick Burgess - 35 sacks
Aaron Kampman - 34 sacks
Jared Allen - 34 sacks
Osi Umenyiora - 33.5 sacks

And according to Stats LLC, Burgess led the NFL in quarterback hurries with 18 despite only playing 14 games in 2007. He's not the very best against the run, but he's done a decent job of playing mostly LE for Oakland and I'm surprised the number of people naming guys like Trent Cole and John Abraham above him.

BlindSite
09-19-2008, 02:56 AM
I think Kampman and Super Mario are the two most complete defensive ends in the NFL at the moment. I think Umenyiora is one of the better ends, but he's not better than either Kampman or Williams.

As for Peppers, he's still a good defensive end, he just hasn't had some luck to register the sacks. He's been in on every play and still gets held a lot. He might not have the stat line at the moment but his presence is being felt early and often.

Sweepem
09-19-2008, 08:46 AM
1. Aaron Kampman
2. Jared Allen
3. Osi Umenyiora
4. Mario Williams
5. Jason Taylor
6. Kyle Vanden Bosch
7. Dwight Freeney
8. Patrick Kerney
9. Aaron Schobel
10. Derrick Burgess

MetSox17
09-19-2008, 10:07 AM
Upon further review of my late night list, I've made some changes. Here is my 4-3 list.

1. Aaron Kampman
2. Mario Williams
3. Jared Allen
4. Justin Tuck
5. Dwight Freeney
6. Aaron Schoebel
7. Kyle Vanden Bosch
8. Trent Cole
9. Jason Taylor
10. Will Smith

I left Umenyiora off the list this time, because of obvious reasons. After reviewing it though, there are a ton of quality defensive ends. Like we're talkin' 20-25 great defensive ends. I'm surprised Schoebel isn't a lot higher on people's lists, as well.

Patrick Kerney is better than at least four guys on that list.

Forenci
09-19-2008, 10:24 AM
I'm curious as to what Julius Peppers has done the past two years to warrant being on some of these lists.

bored of education
09-19-2008, 10:39 AM
I'm curious as to what Julius Peppers has done the past two years to warrant being on some of these lists.
jack squat!

luee
09-19-2008, 11:04 AM
Julius Peppers
Mario
Osi
Jason Tuck
John Abraham
Freeney
Allen
Cole
Kerney
Kapman

scottyboy
09-19-2008, 11:10 AM
Julius Peppers
Mario
Osi
Jason Tuck
John Abraham
Freeney
Allen
Cole
Kerney
Kapman

are you ******* serious? like really. ****.

don5252
09-19-2008, 11:11 AM
1. Mario Williams
2. Aaron Kampman
3. Jared Allen
4. Osi Umenyiora (when healthy)
5. Julius Peppers
6. Justin Tuck
7. Patrick Kerney
8. Jason Taylor
9. Dwight Freeney
10. Richard Seymour

how is arron schobel not on your list

CashmoneyDrew
09-19-2008, 11:25 AM
how is arron schobel not on your list

It's ok. He left off KVB as well. He's just putting names on a list.

Turtlepower
09-19-2008, 11:27 AM
Anyone else think that if David Pollack didn't get so many injuries, he would be on this list?

CashmoneyDrew
09-19-2008, 11:29 AM
Anyone else think that if David Pollack didn't get so many injuries, he would be on this list?

Uhm, weren't they playing him at OLB?

abaddon41_80
09-19-2008, 11:30 AM
Anyone else think that if David Pollack didn't get so many injuries, he would be on this list?

I do. I thought he was going to be a beast

Turtlepower
09-19-2008, 11:30 AM
Uhm, weren't they playing him at OLB?

Were they really??? Damn, I still think he could have been great. I hate you Bengals!

rockio42
09-19-2008, 12:23 PM
Were they really??? Damn, I still think he could have been great. I hate you Bengals!

He was doing great until the injury, he was just a microcosm of what the Bengals had been the past decade

NY+Giants=NYG
09-19-2008, 12:28 PM
I'm not sure he deserves top 10 billing, but Derrick Burgess should get some credit for what he's done since he came to Oakland.

Last three years...

Derrick Burgess - 35 sacks
Aaron Kampman - 34 sacks
Jared Allen - 34 sacks
Osi Umenyiora - 33.5 sacks

And according to Stats LLC, Burgess led the NFL in quarterback hurries with 18 despite only playing 14 games in 2007. He's not the very best against the run, but he's done a decent job of playing mostly LE for Oakland and I'm surprised the number of people naming guys like Trent Cole and John Abraham above him.


This is true, but he has only had two good years in his whole career.. If he can do that again this year I think he should get consideration too. He has very good potential, and flashed it those two years, especially 2005.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-19-2008, 12:31 PM
are you ******* serious? like really. ****.

Hahahah you'd be suprised how many non Giants fans think it's Jason Tuck, based on stupid Aikman saying that a few times. That's not the first time I heard someone call Justin, Jason Tuck, lol. I mean after a while you'd think someone would hear it the right way. It's like going around saying Tim Brady is the best QB, or that Shane Merriman is a beast.

ChezPower4
09-19-2008, 02:31 PM
He's way to injury-prone, which might just drop him out of the top 10. IMO, he could go anywhere between 8-12.

Could say the same thing about Freeney, IMO he's way to high on these lists and is it just DEs or do 3-4 outside linebackers count?

1. Aaron Kampman
2. Mario Williams
3. Jared Allen
4. Kyle Vanden Bosch
5. Julius Peppers
6. Patrick Kearney
7. Trent Cole
8. Jason Taylor
9. Derrick Burgess
10. Dwight Freeney

Splat
09-19-2008, 02:49 PM
Herm Edwards plans to block John Abraham with 3 people.

He will have at least two sacks maybe three.

Paranoidmoonduck
09-19-2008, 07:57 PM
This is true, but he has only had two good years in his whole career.. If he can do that again this year I think he should get consideration too. He has very good potential, and flashed it those two years, especially 2005.

And he's only played a full 16 games in those two years. And he played damn good football last year while playing on a barren defensive line. I'm just surprised how many people put Trent Cole on their top 10 lists, because I don't think he even comes close to Burgess.

saintsfan912
09-19-2008, 08:02 PM
Will Smith should definitely be on that list.

MarioPalmer
09-20-2008, 12:26 PM
Top 10 4-3 DE

1. Mario Williams
2. Jared Allen
3. Justin Tuck
4. Aaron Kampman
5. Dwight Freeney
6. Julius Peppers
7. Gaines Adams
8. Trent Cole
9. Jason Taylor
10a. Jonathan Abraham
10b. Patrick Kearney
10c. Will Smith

Top 5 3-4 DE

1. Richard Seymour
2. Haloti Ngata
3. Luis Castillo
4. Ty Warren
5. Aaron Smith

Shiver
09-20-2008, 12:50 PM
I know it is blasphemous, but am I the only person who is far more impressed with Justin Tuck than Osi Umenyioura?

Vox Populi
09-20-2008, 01:18 PM
1. Mario Williams
2. Aaron Kampman
3. Justin Tuck
4. Dwight Freeney
5. Jared Allen
6. Trent Cole
7. Richard Seymour
8. John Abraham
9. Kyle Vanden Bosch
10. Patrick Kerney

Regularly I would have Osi above Mario, and I'd have Peppers somewhere, but Osi is out for the year and Peppers is just playing like **** since last year. I don't really know whats up with him. I'd have Jason Taylor up there too, but he is playing on the wrong side of the line this year and won't play like a top 10 player at LDE.

Honorable mentions to Aaron Schobel, Derrick Burgess & Gaines Adams. I know its early on Adams, but I think hes going to turn out to be one hell of a pass rusher for the Bucs as long as he stays healthy and on the field.

scottyboy
09-20-2008, 01:19 PM
I know it is blasphemous, but am I the only person who is far more impressed with Justin Tuck than Osi Umenyioura?

well, with Osi hurt it is easy to forget how good a pass rusher he is/has been. Tuck is a better run stuffer due in main part because of his freakish size and speed combo, but Osi is also stout against the run. Osi is still a better DE(obviously not currently due to his injury) but once Tuck improves his pass rush at DE on 1st and 2nd passing downs, then Tuck may surpass Osi. As of now, it's ridiculous to have Tuck on top 10 lists and Osi not. Osi has what? the 4th most sacks over the past 3 years? his injury is making people forget him, which is pretty sad.

Vox Populi
09-20-2008, 01:39 PM
I like to see the Schobel love, but he hasn't really been great this year and last year. Against the Seahawks his statline looked pretty impressive, but it was all off of stunts. He was getting absolutely man handled by Walter Jones, and he didn't do a lot on Khalif Barnes against the Jags either. He is a great end with a lot more athletic ability than most people realize. He will definitely benefit down the line from having some more size inside this year since Pat Williams and Sam Adams left. I'm a Bills fan, but and think he is definitely top 15 in the league, but not quite top 10.

As for people complaining about "not being over Trent Cole or John Abraham" get a clue. Trent Cole has been the best lineman on the Eagles for the past 2 years and has really come into his own as a complete end and not just a pass rusher. Abraham might be one of the top true pass rushers in the game right now and has literally been the only consistent pass rusher on the Falcons team since the beginning of last year. Sure he has some injury problems, but that doesn't mean he isn't a fantastic defensive end who wasn't worth the late first round pick and couple mid-rounders that the Falcons gave up for him back in '06. He literally is the Falcons pass rush and only good lineman at this point. Babineaux is coming along nicely though.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-20-2008, 03:12 PM
I know it is blasphemous, but am I the only person who is far more impressed with Justin Tuck than Osi Umenyioura?


I like Osi a lot, but I think he was overhyped last year. While 13 sacks is 13 sacks, he had that one "right place, right time" game. I'd prefer a much more consistent preformance then 6 sacks in one game, and 7 in the other 15. As a matter of fact, I can see your point, because if we forget that game, and look back to '06... it's 13 sacks in 26 games.

619
09-20-2008, 03:26 PM
I like Osi a lot, but I think he was overhyped last year. While 13 sacks is 13 sacks, he had that one "right place, right time" game. I'd prefer a much more consistent preformance then 6 sacks in one game, and 7 in the other 15. As a matter of fact, I can see your point, because if we forget that game, and look back to '06... it's 13 sacks in 26 games.

I don't always like to use this hypothetical argument. We shouldn't criticize the man for putting up one superhuman performance and then use it against him. The fact it happened remains the same though I certainly would also like to see more consistency out of Osi.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-20-2008, 03:28 PM
I don't always like to use this hypothetical argument. We shouldn't criticize the man for putting up one superhuman performance and then use it against him. The fact it happened remains the same though I certainly would also like to see more consistency out of Osi.

Neither do I, really. That's why I said "13 sacks is still 13 sacks." For a top pass rusher, -1 game leading to 13 sacks in 26 games isn't all that impressive though.

GB12
09-20-2008, 05:22 PM
well, with Osi hurt it is easy to forget how good a pass rusher he is/has been. Tuck is a better run stuffer due in main part because of his freakish size and speed combo, but Osi is also stout against the run. Osi is still a better DE(obviously not currently due to his injury) but once Tuck improves his pass rush at DE on 1st and 2nd passing downs, then Tuck may surpass Osi. As of now, it's ridiculous to have Tuck on top 10 lists and Osi not. Osi has what? the 4th most sacks over the past 3 years? his injury is making people forget him, which is pretty sad.
I'm not forgetting about him, I just never liked him. I never thought he was a top 5 DE and still don't. He's overrated.

SenorGato
09-20-2008, 07:02 PM
Word on the Justin Tuck love.

He's the truth at DE...actually reminds me of Strahan as a DE...

Mr.Regular
09-20-2008, 07:20 PM
Quick List....

1) Aaron Kampman
2) Mario Williams
3) Jared Allen
4) Justin Tuck
5) Osi Umenyiora
6) Kyle Vanden Bosch
7) Patrick Kerney
8) Trent Cole
9) Dwight Freeney
10) Aaron Schobel

Paranoidmoonduck
09-20-2008, 07:40 PM
I'm not forgetting about him, I just never liked him. I never thought he was a top 5 DE and still don't. He's overrated.

I'm not the biggest fan of Osi either, but to be fair, coming into this year he had the highest sack per start rate of any defensive end in the NFL. The only defender higher than him was Merriman.

Number 10
09-20-2008, 08:18 PM
A defensive end with the amount of sacks Osi has had that also plays the run exceptionally well....

What else do you want from him? (When healthy)

Sniper
09-21-2008, 09:49 PM
A defensive end with the amount of sacks Osi has had that also plays the run exceptionally well....

What else do you want from him? (When healthy)

Consistency.

Thunder&Lightning
09-22-2008, 03:51 PM
1. Mario Williams
2. Jared Allen
3. Aaron Kampman
4. Patrick Kerney
5. Jason Taylor
6. Dwight Freeney
7. Julius Peppers
8. Richard Seymour
9. Justin Tuck
10. Luis Castillo

RaiderNation
09-22-2008, 03:54 PM
Derrick Burgess?????? Mayb top 10 but probably top 15

giantsfan
09-22-2008, 11:19 PM
I know it is blasphemous, but am I the only person who is far more impressed with Justin Tuck than Osi Umenyioura?

It's not blasphemous, it's just not pertinent to this thread. Most of Tucks dominance comes when he gets to move inside and rush against slower guards. That's why I'd say Tuck is as good of a Dlineman as Osi, but not as good of a DE. The difference at DE against the run is pretty small while Osi is a helluva lot more effective rushing that off the edge.

PS Kiwi will be better than both in 2-3 seasons if he stays healthy and they don't move him around every season.

giantsfan
09-22-2008, 11:34 PM
For those saying Osi's inconsistent because he got a s***-ton of sacks in one game last year, I've got to say that Osi was as much hurt statistically as he was helped on the field by having Tuck, Kiwi and Strahan around him. Sure they punished teams when they would double osi, but a lot of times osi would beat his man and be breaking on the quarterback only for Tuck to burst through the middle, or the QB to start running away and run straight into ole gap-tooth. That's why his stats were inconsistent, however his pressure and performance were very consistent.

Osi was our number guy on the line, he went up against the most double teams and chip blocks. I wish I still had the tape of Osi's first full season starting when we went into seattle and had about thirty nine thousand six hundred forty two and a half false starts, That game Osi went one on one against Walter Jones and made Jones his *****, he was a beast against the run racking up 7 tackles and 2 sacks. And from what I'd seen of TC Osi was looking better than ever.

marks01234
09-23-2008, 11:35 AM
Mario Williams is the best DE in the league right now - period.

He creates mismatches and finishes plays. He is as strong at the point of attack as some of the great DTs in the league and he can absolutely disrupt a rushing attack. It's very rare that a team even runs to his side unless it is a middirection or delayed handoff. He virtually unstoppable when rushing the pass, collecting double and tirple teams regularly. He even drops back into coverage every now and then.

Now, if you want to see Mario Williams sustain this level of play for longer than the past 10-14 games, then that is fine - rate him a little lower. If you want to make sure Mario can stay healthy for a longer period of time, then that is fine too - rate him a little lower.

scottyboy
09-23-2008, 04:13 PM
It's not blasphemous, it's just not pertinent to this thread. Most of Tucks dominance comes when he gets to move inside and rush against slower guards. That's why I'd say Tuck is as good of a Dlineman as Osi, but not as good of a DE. The difference at DE against the run is pretty small while Osi is a helluva lot more effective rushing that off the edge.

PS Kiwi will be better than both in 2-3 seasons if he stays healthy and they don't move him around every season.

not a chance Kiwi is better than tuck OR Osi. He's not the pass rusher Osi is, and not hte run stuffer Tuck is. excellent rusher and very versatile weapon, but not close to those two in terms of overall talent, size, and even perhaps speed

giantsfan
09-23-2008, 11:15 PM
not a chance Kiwi is better than tuck OR Osi. He's not the pass rusher Osi is, and not hte run stuffer Tuck is. excellent rusher and very versatile weapon, but not close to those two in terms of overall talent, size, and even perhaps speed

Kiwi definitely has the potential to top both. Is he better right now? Hell no, but in 2 or 3 years if he just works on DE I wouldn't be surprised if he was better than both. He's quicker and has a better first step than both and has much longer arms which will make shedding tackles easier. Kiwi has monster potential if he plays DE full time and continues the great work ethic and steady progress he's shown his entire career.

bigG
09-24-2008, 02:31 AM
Jonathan Abraham has to be in the top 3 if the list is only based on the first three games. He is finally looking like the player the Falcons paid for. The Jets could really use him right now at Olb to help their pass rush, and to mentor Gholston.

BlindSite
09-24-2008, 03:01 AM
Jonathan Abraham has to be in the top 3 if the list is only based on the first three games. He is finally looking like the player the Falcons paid for. The Jets could really use him right now at Olb to help their pass rush, and to mentor Gholston.

Against detroit and Kansas... I'd hold off for a bit.

ATLDirtyBirds
09-24-2008, 01:14 PM
Jonathan Abraham has to be in the top 3 if the list is only based on the first three games. He is finally looking like the player the Falcons paid for. The Jets could really use him right now at Olb to help their pass rush, and to mentor Gholston.


He's always been the player we've paid for when on the field. He brings pressure all the time. This year, he's just really adding up the sacks though. He attributes it to being fresher with DL coach Ray Hamilton in charge.

abaddon41_80
09-24-2008, 01:48 PM
Against detroit and Kansas... I'd hold off for a bit.

+1. Abraham hasn't exactly played the best of offensive lines, even Tampa Bay's line is below average.

rockio42
09-24-2008, 11:47 PM
People kept saying that it was so hard because there are so many great DE's so I decided to put together a list of the best of the starting DEs and then added in guys who are significant pass rushers and it came to a round number of 50 4-3 DEs...There are rough patches after 15 in which it gets a lot harder to judge the difference...in regard to how I decided I used seccess so far throughout this season and last year so rookies are that high in the rankings...I also put some guys relatively high who even though they have an off year last year are still revered in the NFL and could easily have a great season...

Ranking of the top 50 4-3 DE’s in the NFL
1. Mario Williams
2. Aaron Kampman
3. Jared Allen
4. Dwight Freeney
5. Justin Tuck
6. Osi Umenyiora
7. Jason Taylor
8. Patrick Kearney
9. Kyle Vanden Bosch
10. John Abraham
11. Will Smith
12. Julius Peppers
13. Aaron Schobel
14. Derrick Burgess
15. Cullen Jenkins
16. Trent Cole
17. Robert Mathis
18. Kabeer Gbaja-Biamilla
19. Adewale Ogunleye
20. Elvis Dumervil
21. Alex Brown
22. Leonard Little
23. Andre Carter
24. Gaines Adams
25. Tamba Hali
26. Charles grant
27. Dewayne White
28. Mathias Kiwanuka
29. Juque Parker
30. Paul Spicer
31. Greg White
32. Kevin Carter
33. Mark Anderson
34. Darryl Tapp
35. Antwan Odom
36. Ray Edwards
37. Robert Geathers
38. Chris Long
39. Turk McBride
40. Lawrence Jackson
41. Jevon Kearse
42. Chris Kelsay
43. Reggie Hayward
44. John Engelberger
45. Quentin Groves
46. Tyler Brayton
47. Jamaal Anderson
48. Anthony Weaver
49. Jay Richardson
50. Jared Devries

MasterShake
09-25-2008, 12:05 AM
People kept saying that it was so hard because there are so many great DE's so I decided to put together a list of the best of the starting DEs and then added in guys who are significant pass rushers and it came to a round number of 50 4-3 DEs...There are rough patches after 15 in which it gets a lot harder to judge the difference...in regard to how I decided I used seccess so far throughout this season and last year so rookies are that high in the rankings...I also put some guys relatively high who even though they have an off year last year are still revered in the NFL and could easily have a great season...

Ranking of the top 50 4-3 DEs in the NFL
1. Mario Williams
2. Aaron Kampman
3. Jared Allen
4. Dwight Freeney
5. Justin Tuck
6. Osi Umenyiora
7. Jason Taylor
8. Patrick Kearney
9. Kyle Vanden Bosch
10. John Abraham
11. Will Smith
12. Julius Peppers
13. Aaron Schobel
14. Derrick Burgess
15. Cullen Jenkins
16. Trent Cole
17. Robert Mathis
18. Kabeer Gbaja-Biamilla
19. Adewale Ogunleye
20. Elvis Dumervil
21. Alex Brown
22. Leonard Little
23. Andre Carter
24. Gaines Adams
25. Tamba Hali
26. Charles grant
27. Dewayne White
28. Mathias Kiwanuka
29. Juque Parker
30. Paul Spicer
31. Greg White
32. Kevin Carter
33. Mark Anderson
34. Darryl Tapp
35. Antwan Odom
36. Ray Edwards
37. Robert Geathers
38. Chris Long
39. Turk McBride
40. Lawrence Jackson
41. Jevon Kearse
42. Chris Kelsay
43. Reggie Hayward
44. John Engelberger
45. Quentin Groves
46. Tyler Brayton
47. Jamaal Anderson
48. Anthony Weaver
49. Jay Richardson
50. Jared Devries

Justin Smith?

GB12
09-25-2008, 12:06 AM
You had to quote the whole damn post just to say that?

rockio42
09-25-2008, 06:02 AM
Justin Smith?

Hes a 3-4 DE now, Its just 4-3 DEs

MasterShake
09-25-2008, 07:00 AM
Hes a 3-4 DE now, Its just 4-3 DEs

He plays alot of 4-3 DE in our system....I'd say the majority of the time he lines up at 4-3 DE. We play a hybrid.

MasterShake
09-25-2008, 07:00 AM
You had to quote the whole damn post just to say that?

Otherwise someone might think I'm suggesting he is a top 10 DE no?

rockio42
09-25-2008, 08:28 AM
He plays alot of 4-3 DE in our system....I'd say the majority of the time he lines up at 4-3 DE. We play a hybrid.

I was going with what most people thought was the main base defense so I put the 49ers in the 3-4 catagory

dc22
09-25-2008, 01:16 PM
I was going with what most people thought was the main base defense so I put the 49ers in the 3-4 catagory
3 packers in the top 20.. nice haha

GB12
09-25-2008, 08:07 PM
3 packers in the top 20.. nice haha
Except not really. His list really isn't good.Otherwise someone might think I'm suggesting he is a top 10 DE no?
No, you could have just taken a piece of it.
Example:

Ranking of the top 50 4-3 DEs in the NFL
Justin Smith?

MasterShake
09-25-2008, 10:23 PM
Except not really. His list really isn't good.
No, you could have just taken a piece of it.
Example:
Justin Smith?

Yeah but the original post isn't THAT big and I don't care that much....

rockio42
09-29-2008, 10:47 AM
Except not really. His list really isn't good.


little harsh, at least i put some time into it

saintsfan912
09-29-2008, 11:34 AM
Charles Grant has played like a top 10 DE this season. He was beastly against San Fran, even though that isn't saying much.

CC.SD
09-29-2008, 11:50 AM
I'm not a big fan of this thread, mostly because I feel like Shaun Phillips can get to the QB better than a lot of the guys on these lists, but he is DQd. Waaaaah.

XxXdragonXxX
09-29-2008, 12:04 PM
People kept saying that it was so hard because there are so many great DE's so I decided to put together a list of the best of the starting DEs and then added in guys who are significant pass rushers and it came to a round number of 50 4-3 DEs...There are rough patches after 15 in which it gets a lot harder to judge the difference...in regard to how I decided I used seccess so far throughout this season and last year so rookies are that high in the rankings...I also put some guys relatively high who even though they have an off year last year are still revered in the NFL and could easily have a great season...

Ranking of the top 50 4-3 DEs in the NFL

34. Darryl Tapp

40. Lawrence Jackson




I'd switch these 2 around.

abaddon41_80
09-30-2008, 07:56 AM
Charles Grant has played like a top 10 DE this season. He was beastly against San Fran, even though that isn't saying much.

No man, Barry Sims is great! That is why he was cut by the Raiders >.>

GermanSaint
09-30-2008, 11:45 AM
Complete DEs


7. Will Smith


no way he is a complete DE
he is a solid passrusher and a horrid run defender.... he is way overrated , while his counterpart charles grant , is kinda overlooked sometimes.

charles grant should be a top 15 complete DE atleast, will smith is winding down for two years now.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-30-2008, 12:15 PM
You had to quote the whole damn post just to say that?

HAHA alot of people do that,lol. I find it funny too.

scottyboy
10-14-2008, 05:25 PM
after last night's horrid game, I wanted to bump this thread up. As much as I LOVE Tuck and think he's a beast, his pass rushing is too hit or miss, not enough consistency. Giants had zero pass rush last night. Osi, whether he gets sacks or not, is always coming off the edge and will more often than not, at least make the QB move around in the pocket. He disrupts them and puts on pressure. Kiwi isn't there yet and got man-handled by Thomas and Tuck was just very pedestrian in the pass rush department...

AntoinCD
10-14-2008, 05:28 PM
People kept saying that it was so hard because there are so many great DE's so I decided to put together a list of the best of the starting DEs and then added in guys who are significant pass rushers and it came to a round number of 50 4-3 DEs...There are rough patches after 15 in which it gets a lot harder to judge the difference...in regard to how I decided I used seccess so far throughout this season and last year so rookies are that high in the rankings...I also put some guys relatively high who even though they have an off year last year are still revered in the NFL and could easily have a great season...

Ranking of the top 50 4-3 DEs in the NFL
1. Mario Williams
2. Aaron Kampman
3. Jared Allen
4. Dwight Freeney
5. Justin Tuck
6. Osi Umenyiora
7. Jason Taylor
8. Patrick Kearney
9. Kyle Vanden Bosch
10. John Abraham
11. Will Smith
12. Julius Peppers
13. Aaron Schobel
14. Derrick Burgess
15. Cullen Jenkins
16. Trent Cole
17. Robert Mathis
18. Kabeer Gbaja-Biamilla
19. Adewale Ogunleye
20. Elvis Dumervil
21. Alex Brown
22. Leonard Little
23. Andre Carter
24. Gaines Adams
25. Tamba Hali
26. Charles grant
27. Dewayne White
28. Mathias Kiwanuka
29. Juque Parker
30. Paul Spicer
31. Greg White
32. Kevin Carter
33. Mark Anderson
34. Darryl Tapp
35. Antwan Odom
36. Ray Edwards
37. Robert Geathers
38. Chris Long
39. Turk McBride
40. Lawrence Jackson
41. Jevon Kearse
42. Chris Kelsay
43. Reggie Hayward
44. John Engelberger
45. Quentin Groves
46. Tyler Brayton
47. Jamaal Anderson
48. Anthony Weaver
49. Jay Richardson
50. Jared Devries

Freeney is not 4th best. Great pass rusher, liability in the run game and not even getting all that many sacks anymore.

Gay Ork Wang
10-14-2008, 05:34 PM
Mark Anderson doesnt deserve a spot on there

ChezPower4
10-14-2008, 05:53 PM
Mark Anderson doesnt deserve a spot on there

He's better that Jamal Anderson IMO, I don't see how Jamal gets on this list