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View Full Version : Shockey Out 3-6 Weeks


saintsfan912
09-22-2008, 04:03 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3603003

We just can't catch a fricking break.

awfullyquiet
09-22-2008, 04:04 PM
eff.

that's a big pile of unhappiness.

scottyboy
09-22-2008, 04:05 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3603003

We just can't catch a fricking break.

tough news, but you guys knew he was injury prone when you traded for him.

then again, it is a sports hernia. but still

tough break, I was one of his few supporters when he was in NY.

Go_Eagles77
09-22-2008, 04:06 PM
Same injury as Kevin Curtis, probably even when he comes back he won't be 100% all season.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2008, 04:09 PM
another reason why i don't necessarily miss Shockey.

he hasn't stayed healthy for a full season his entire career.


Kevin Boss ftw.

bored of education
09-22-2008, 04:09 PM
not so nice!

Flyboy
09-22-2008, 04:11 PM
And, the Saints CONTINUE to be the most injured team in the NFL.

WHOOOOOOOO!

saintsfan912
09-22-2008, 04:12 PM
Sooo what do we do with our top 10 pick?

bigbluedefense
09-22-2008, 04:12 PM
Sooo what do we do with our top 10 pick?

hopefully extend Vilma so the Giants can have it.

saintsfan912
09-22-2008, 04:13 PM
They won't get a first if we extend Vilma.

Forenci
09-22-2008, 04:14 PM
Well that sucks, but I can't say I'm terribly surprised.

I was never a Shockey fan, but I hate to see anyone injured. Plus he's on one of my fantasy teams. Ugh.

saintsfan912
09-22-2008, 04:16 PM
Yea, my fantasy team too.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2008, 04:16 PM
They won't get a first if we extend Vilma.

yeah i know. only if you do it during FA it will happen :(


Shockey is a great player, and is one of the best TEs in the game. Maybe the 2nd most complete TE in the game next to Jason Witten, but the guy just can't stay healthy.

And the way Boss is growing as a blocker and pass catcher, I really don't miss him.

In this deep draft, having an extra 2nd is gonna be sweet.

Turtlepower
09-22-2008, 04:16 PM
They won't get a first if we extend Vilma.

If Vilma plays 85% of defensive snaps and Vilma is extended, then you give the Jets your 2nd round pick. When that happens, the Giants are bumped up to a 1st round pick.

Number 10
09-22-2008, 04:19 PM
If Vilma plays 85% of defensive snaps and Vilma is extended, then you give the Jets your 2nd round pick. When that happens, the Giants are bumped up to a 1st round pick.

In 2010, not this year.

Turtlepower
09-22-2008, 04:20 PM
In 2010, not this year.


Oh, then maybe we could get Everson Griffin in 2010!

saintsfan912
09-22-2008, 04:21 PM
I thought it was a 4th, which upgrades to a 3rd if he plays that much?

bigbluedefense
09-22-2008, 04:22 PM
I thought it was a 4th, which upgrades to a 3rd if he plays that much?

we traded shockey for a 2nd and 5th.

if like stated, Vilma goes for a 2nd to the Jets based on his extension, we bump up to a 1st.


Its a downer for me though that it would be for 2010. I wanted one this year :(

Turtlepower
09-22-2008, 04:24 PM
we traded shockey for a 2nd and 5th.

if like stated, Vilma goes for a 2nd to the Jets based on his extension, we bump up to a 1st.


Its a downer for me though that it would be for 2010. I wanted one this year :(

Believe me when I say that a 2010 first rounder would be amazing. Plus Brees might begin to regress (purely hypothetical) and thus the Saints could give us a top-10 pick in a very good DE class.

Thunder&Lightning
09-22-2008, 04:32 PM
Saints really cant catch a break. Neither can shockey guys a prick but im starting to feel bad for the kid.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2008, 04:38 PM
Believe me when I say that a 2010 first rounder would be amazing. Plus Brees might begin to regress (purely hypothetical) and thus the Saints could give us a top-10 pick in a very good DE class.

if we get a 2nd out of the deal, would it be for this year?

Turtlepower
09-22-2008, 04:39 PM
if we get a 2nd out of the deal, would it be for this year?

From what it sounds like Number 10 was saying, it would be a 2nd and 5th this year or a 1st in 2010. He can confirm this.

bigbluedefense
09-22-2008, 04:43 PM
From what it sounds like Number 10 was saying, it would be a 2nd and 5th this year or a 1st in 2010. He can confirm this.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


if you trade 2 2nd round picks, what value is that in the first round?

619
09-22-2008, 04:49 PM
**** just when Reggie was starting to get on a roll ... :(

MetSox17
09-22-2008, 04:50 PM
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


if you trade 2 2nd round picks, what value is that in the first round?

Depending how high the second rounders are, but usually somewhere between 17-28.

Edit - Just off the top of my head, i didn't bother looking at the overrated and overused "trade chart".

Number 10
09-22-2008, 05:31 PM
From what it sounds like Number 10 was saying, it would be a 2nd and 5th this year or a 1st in 2010. He can confirm this.

That is correct.

LonghornsLegend
09-22-2008, 05:38 PM
another reason why i don't necessarily miss Shockey.

he hasn't stayed healthy for a full season his entire career.


Kevin Boss ftw.

On a side note, I caught 'NFL matchup' saturday night(which btw is the best football show left on tv hands down IMHO) and they highlighted Kevin Boss and his run blocking, and let me say this guy's run blocking is as advertised...He demolished Chris Long multiple times, but not just him, whoever he lined up against, he has this club move that he does and it clears the entire hole to run through...For a team like NY that requires their TE's to block so much he really is a great fit, I heard alot about how good he really was in that aspect but it's certainly the truth, the guy is a road grader.

scottyboy
09-22-2008, 05:53 PM
On a side note, I caught 'NFL matchup' saturday night(which btw is the best football show left on tv hands down IMHO) and they highlighted Kevin Boss and his run blocking, and let me say this guy's run blocking is as advertised...He demolished Chris Long multiple times, but not just him, whoever he lined up against, he has this club move that he does and it clears the entire hole to run through...For a team like NY that requires their TE's to block so much he really is a great fit, I heard alot about how good he really was in that aspect but it's certainly the truth, the guy is a road grader.

it does help that he's pretty massive and gained alot of weight in muscle this off season. All off season Mike Pope has been working on his blocking. Just blocking, blocking and more blocking. He's got the technique down fairly well now, throw in his already huge ass frame and more muscle, and you've got yourself a nice little(big really, lol) run blocker. The dude's freaking 6'7 with pretty long legs. Just a very large dude.

Forenci
09-22-2008, 06:51 PM
On a side note, I caught 'NFL matchup' saturday night(which btw is the best football show left on tv hands down IMHO) and they highlighted Kevin Boss and his run blocking, and let me say this guy's run blocking is as advertised...He demolished Chris Long multiple times, but not just him, whoever he lined up against, he has this club move that he does and it clears the entire hole to run through...For a team like NY that requires their TE's to block so much he really is a great fit, I heard alot about how good he really was in that aspect but it's certainly the truth, the guy is a road grader.

As Scottyboy mentioned a lot of attention should go to Mike Pope, the tight end coach. The guy does a superb job at improving all aspects of a tight end, especially blocking. He really just helps guys use their natural physical ability and teaches great technique.

Shockey went from someone who was fairly below average at blocking to one of the best blocking tight ends in the NFL.

It's really amazing what he's done with Boss, a guy who last year everyone knew and thought was a liability in terms of blocking to a guy who's looked great blocking thus far.

Menardo75
09-22-2008, 06:53 PM
It is too bad whats happening with all the injurys, but hey thats football.

J-Shock
09-22-2008, 07:10 PM
This is obviously disappointing to me.

diabsoule
09-22-2008, 10:06 PM
Reason #1 I didn't want the Saints to trade for him. While it's obvious how reliant our offense is on a great TE, Shockey has proven he can not stay healthy and now we're giving up a 2nd round pick and a 5th round pick so the guy can nurse his balls.

I applaud the organization for aggressively going after Vilma. The same thing with Brees. But Shockey's track record has proven that he's a beast when he's healthy but he's never healthy for a season. Why give up draft picks on someone that will only play half of your games? If we wanted that we could've traded for Lito Sheppard cheaper than Shockey came.

D-Unit
09-22-2008, 10:47 PM
Shockey's loss will mean less running lanes for the Saints.

diabsoule
09-22-2008, 11:06 PM
Shockey's loss will mean less running lanes for the Saints.

We haven't had any running lanes with Shockey.

That's only a slight exaggeration since our run blocking has been pathetic.

Flyboy
09-23-2008, 12:12 AM
If we wanted that we could've traded for Lito Sheppard cheaper than Shockey came.

Lito Sheppard is injured just as much as Shockey if not more so.

giantsfan
09-23-2008, 12:16 AM
another reason why i don't necessarily miss Shockey.

he hasn't stayed healthy for a full season his entire career.


Kevin Boss ftw.

Yeah, but he was a dominant blocker and the type of weapon teams had to account for, even if Killdrive hated throwing the ball to him.

I really hope he can stay healthy because I love his fire and passion. He loves football and he loves winning football games, the biggest problem with him isn't the injuries, plax has been constantly injured but he's still a beast, the problem is that when his team is not winning he feels too much pressure to be the guy to step up and carry the team, which results in him losing focus and dropping easy passes or taking stupid penalties. I really thought that with Brees already the guy in New Orleans he'd really flourish and be a great team-mate, but this injury is a major set back.

giantsfan
09-23-2008, 12:26 AM
On a side note, I caught 'NFL matchup' saturday night(which btw is the best football show left on tv hands down IMHO) and they highlighted Kevin Boss and his run blocking, and let me say this guy's run blocking is as advertised...He demolished Chris Long multiple times, but not just him, whoever he lined up against, he has this club move that he does and it clears the entire hole to run through...For a team like NY that requires their TE's to block so much he really is a great fit, I heard alot about how good he really was in that aspect but it's certainly the truth, the guy is a road grader.

Which is really incredible because after last season the biggest question mark we as giants fans had was how much would he improve his blocking. He really was weak at that last season.

As Scottyboy mentioned a lot of attention should go to Mike Pope, the tight end coach. The guy does a superb job at improving all aspects of a tight end, especially blocking. He really just helps guys use their natural physical ability and teaches great technique.

Shockey went from someone who was fairly below average at blocking to one of the best blocking tight ends in the NFL.

It's really amazing what he's done with Boss, a guy who last year everyone knew and thought was a liability in terms of blocking to a guy who's looked great blocking thus far.

Shockey just didn't have any technique as a blocker, he was a big strong, fast and tough bamf, so he was effective as a blocker by sheer force of will early on, it's just the lack of technique prevented him from developing consistency and being able to just school anyone.

Reason #1 I didn't want the Saints to trade for him. While it's obvious how reliant our offense is on a great TE, Shockey has proven he can not stay healthy and now we're giving up a 2nd round pick and a 5th round pick so the guy can nurse his balls.

I applaud the organization for aggressively going after Vilma. The same thing with Brees. But Shockey's track record has proven that he's a beast when he's healthy but he's never healthy for a season. Why give up draft picks on someone that will only play half of your games? If we wanted that we could've traded for Lito Sheppard cheaper than Shockey came.

You guys aquired Brees after a serious shoulder injury, Vilma almost ripped his leg off at the knee last season and has been constantly banged up since the end of his rookie season and Lito Sheppard misses games every year. Yeah Shockey's suffered a lot of injuries in his career but the saints have gambled on people recovering and staying healthy before and you want them to do it again. I'm not sure what my point is I'm just trying to figure out your logic on that.

giantsfan
09-23-2008, 12:32 AM
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


if you trade 2 2nd round picks, what value is that in the first round?

Well since the latter second rounder will be the 32nd pick in the second round probably not that high.

TitleTown088
09-23-2008, 12:34 AM
Shockey is a cupcake. How much time has he missed to injuries throughout his career?

diabsoule
09-23-2008, 12:35 AM
Which is really incredible because after last season the biggest question mark we as giants fans had was how much would he improve his blocking. He really was weak at that last season.



Shockey just didn't have any technique as a blocker, he was a big strong, fast and tough bamf, so he was effective as a blocker by sheer force of will early on, it's just the lack of technique prevented him from developing consistency and being able to just school anyone.



You guys aquired Brees after a serious shoulder injury, Vilma almost ripped his leg off at the knee last season and has been constantly banged up since the end of his rookie season and Lito Sheppard misses games every year. Yeah Shockey's suffered a lot of injuries in his career but the saints have gambled on people recovering and staying healthy before and you want them to do it again. I'm not sure what my point is I'm just trying to figure out your logic on that.

Saying that about Lito Sheppard was out of frustration more than anything. The Drew Brees gamble paid off and it's looking like the Vilma trade will have paid off as well. Shockey, on the other hand, has not been able to stay healthy his entire career. I don't know what made the Saints give up two draft picks we could desperately use in order to get a tight end that will miss at least 3-6 games a season.

TitleTown088
09-23-2008, 12:38 AM
another reason why i don't necessarily miss Shockey.

he hasn't stayed healthy for a full season his entire career.


Kevin Boss ftw.

Hasn't Boss been pedestrian in the passing attack thus far?

giantsfan
09-23-2008, 12:39 AM
Saying that about Lito Sheppard was out of frustration more than anything. The Drew Brees gamble paid off and it's looking like the Vilma trade will have paid off as well. Shockey, on the other hand, has not been able to stay healthy his entire career. I don't know what made the Saints give up two draft picks we could desperately use in order to get a tight end that will miss at least 3-6 games a season.

You've struck gold on 1 out 3 seriously injured or oft-injured players already and hopefully will strike gold again, that's a good percentage for a team that seems to like those kind of buy low gambles.

As for adding Shockey to your team he's a guy who has the ability to be a game changer and IMO the Saints have the talent to be a perennial playoff team and in the playoffs were only one game matters having as many game breakers as possible is clutch, even if some of them do miss part of the regular season. Plus Shockey ups his intensity even more in big games.

bigbluedefense
09-23-2008, 08:53 AM
On a side note, I caught 'NFL matchup' saturday night(which btw is the best football show left on tv hands down IMHO) and they highlighted Kevin Boss and his run blocking, and let me say this guy's run blocking is as advertised...He demolished Chris Long multiple times, but not just him, whoever he lined up against, he has this club move that he does and it clears the entire hole to run through...For a team like NY that requires their TE's to block so much he really is a great fit, I heard alot about how good he really was in that aspect but it's certainly the truth, the guy is a road grader.

As mentioned, a ton of credit should go to our TE coach, Pope, he's the best in the business.

I was quite shocked at his progress bc if you go back and look at his run blocking last year, he was downright awful. He's still not where i want him to be, he's not on Shockey's level, but his progress is promising.

Having him makes up for losing Shockey for sure.

Hasn't Boss been pedestrian in the passing attack thus far?

Its the scheme. TEs don't get many catches in our scheme. He's more of a blocker/decoy.

Thats why Shockey wanted out.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2008, 08:59 AM
Hasn't Boss been pedestrian in the passing attack thus far?

Scheme, and we rather go 3 wide instead and use Steve Smith like we did last year. Remember who our OC is. Mr. Gun n shoot himself, so I am sure he is very happy to go 3 or 4 wide whenever possible.

bigbluedefense
09-23-2008, 09:19 AM
Scheme, and we rather go 3 wide instead and use Steve Smith like we did last year. Remember who our OC is. Mr. Gun n shoot himself, so I am sure he is very happy to go 3 or 4 wide whenever possible.

I actually don't like how we're using Smith. Last year, we used him as a pure slot WR. This year we have him running a lot of TE routes. Thats why he's had a "dropoff" of sorts. Stick to what works. Keep him as a pure slot WR and let him do what he does.

If anything, Id rather have Hixon run the TE routes. He's more built for it.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2008, 09:26 AM
I actually don't like how we're using Smith. Last year, we used him as a pure slot WR. This year we have him running a lot of TE routes. Thats why he's had a "dropoff" of sorts. Stick to what works. Keep him as a pure slot WR and let him do what he does.

If anything, Id rather have Hixon run the TE routes. He's more built for it.

He is being moved around now, just like everyone else. There is no slot guy anymore. I would rathe have it that way. Also don't forget those are just terms, it depends what personnel they are in, and what Smith is. X, Y or Z in that personnel. Hixon is a typical X in my opinion, and so when Plax is on the field, we almost use Hixon like two split end wrs. I would rather have Smith and Toomer for those TE routes like curls and hitches. Also depends on the coverage.

Against man coverage C2 man and C1 man free, Smith can own any nickel Cb in that matchup. It's like stealing at that point. I have no issue with that, and we changed some of our running plays too.

Now I told you yesterday I think our lack of screens is something I don't like. I would rather use more bubble and Wr screens.

bigbluedefense
09-23-2008, 09:32 AM
He is being moved around now, just like everyone else. There is no slot guy anymore. I would rathe have it that way. Also don't forget those are just terms, it depends what personnel they are in, and what Smith is. X, Y or Z in that personnel. Hixon is a typical X in my opinion, and so when Plax is on the field, we almost use Hixon like two split end wrs. I would rather have Smith and Toomer for those TE routes like curls and hitches. Also depends on the coverage.

Against man coverage C2 man and C1 man free, Smith can own any nickel Cb in that matchup. It's like stealing at that point. I have no issue with that, and we changed some of our running plays too.

Now I told you yesterday I think our lack of screens is something I don't like. I would rather use more bubble and Wr screens.

None of our WRs really fit the screen profile though. Other than Moss, but it would be too obvious if we put him in the game and just run a screen with him.

Its a damn shame. Sinorice Moss was supposed to be for us what Desean Jackson is for the Eagles. But it just never worked out.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2008, 09:35 AM
None of our WRs really fit the screen profile though. Other than Moss, but it would be too obvious if we put him in the game and just run a screen with him.

Its a damn shame. Sinorice Moss was supposed to be for us what Desean Jackson is for the Eagles. But it just never worked out.

Moss, Manningham, Smith or Hixon. Even put Bradshaw at WR at times, while having another back in the backfield. The more you rotate your Wrs the harder is for the defense to key in on who the "screen guy" is. It's damn near hard to simulate that in practice. You'd have to have different body builds playing the other team's WR.

I always saw moss as welker. In fact before the superbowl Moss played Welker and gave the defense a good look.

Sniper
09-23-2008, 09:40 AM
Against man coverage C2 man and C1 man free, Smith can own any nickel Cb in that matchup. It's like stealing at that point. I have no issue with that, and we changed some of our running plays too.



Lito Sheppard may disagree with you.

Sniper
09-23-2008, 09:40 AM
None of our WRs really fit the screen profile though. Other than Moss, but it would be too obvious if we put him in the game and just run a screen with him.

Its a damn shame. Sinorice Moss was supposed to be for us what Desean Jackson is for the Eagles. But it just never worked out.

What's going on with Mario Manningham?

bigbluedefense
09-23-2008, 09:47 AM
What's going on with Mario Manningham?

stuck behind 4 WRs. its fine with me, i rather have him sit and learn our complicated playbook than throw him to the wolves. we know his dumbass will need awhile to figure out the playbook.

we're so deep at WR, we have the luxury of letting him take his time.

bigbluedefense
09-23-2008, 09:47 AM
Moss, Manningham, Smith or Hixon. Even put Bradshaw at WR at times, while having another back in the backfield. The more you rotate your Wrs the harder is for the defense to key in on who the "screen guy" is. It's damn near hard to simulate that in practice. You'd have to have different body builds playing the other team's WR.

I always saw moss as welker. In fact before the superbowl Moss played Welker and gave the defense a good look.

thats a great point.

but we have Kill Drive as our OC :(

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2008, 09:54 AM
Lito Sheppard may disagree with you.


O expect him too, just like the other nickel Cbs that covered Smith. It's all in the passing concepts and what you guys are giving us vs a certain formation.

Sniper
09-23-2008, 10:31 AM
stuck behind 4 WRs. its fine with me, i rather have him sit and learn our complicated playbook than throw him to the wolves. we know his dumbass will need awhile to figure out the playbook.

we're so deep at WR, we have the luxury of letting him take his time.

Playbook? Just send him deep. He may have timed at 4.6, but seperation, especially on deep balls, is NOT an issue :)

Sniper
09-23-2008, 10:32 AM
O expect him too, just like the other nickel Cbs that covered Smith. It's all in the passing concepts and what you guys are giving us vs a certain formation.

Erroneous. Lito will hand Smith his lunch, bought from Smith's own lunch money that Lito will steal

giantsfan
09-23-2008, 10:36 AM
Playbook? Just send him deep. He may have timed at 4.6, but seperation, especially on deep balls, is NOT an issue :)

Meh, atm he's really not much better than Hixon or Moss as a deep threat. Let the kid sit and come in rarely for screens and bombs. Next year when Toomer retires and Hixon moves into the starting lineup you then have an open competition between mario and moss for the 4th WR spot.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2008, 10:36 AM
Erroneous. Lito will hand Smith his lunch, bought from Smith's own lunch money that Lito will steal

Bring it! : P

Sniper
09-23-2008, 10:37 AM
Meh, atm he's really not much better than Hixon or Moss as a deep threat. Let the kid sit and come in rarely for screens and bombs. Next year when Toomer retires and Hixon moves into the starting lineup you then have an open competition between mario and moss for the 4th WR spot.

Come on now. Sinorice Moss isn't in Mario's league as a deep threat. He just has more experience. Mario never had a season at Michigan where he averaged less than 16 ypc. That's sick.

NY+Giants=NYG
09-23-2008, 10:38 AM
Playbook? Just send him deep. He may have timed at 4.6, but seperation, especially on deep balls, is NOT an issue :)

We have Hixon emerging to do that like he did in the Bengals game. He is really the wild card now. He is pushing Moss off, and now there really is no rush for Manningham to play this year, unless someone gets injured.

giantsfan
09-23-2008, 10:41 AM
Come on now. Sinorice Moss isn't in Mario's league as a deep threat. He just has more experience. Mario never had a season at Michigan where he averaged less than 16 ypc. That's sick.

No dude, right now in The NFL, not NCAA, Mario Manningham is no better than Sinorice Moss or Domenik Hixon as a deep threat and is significantly worse in many other aspects of the game. He's a WR which means he'll need to adapt to the NFL, add to that that he went fullretard and his adaptation will be even slower.

Flyboy
09-26-2008, 04:04 PM
Payton said he's hopeful that Shockey could be back as early as the Saints' home game against Oakland in two weeks after positive reports from Shockey's hernia surgery earlier this week. The damage to Shockey's ligaments wasn't as extensive as some sports hernias can be, so the recovery time should be in the three-week range.

... um, yay?

CC.SD
09-26-2008, 04:45 PM
... um, yay?

That IS a yay.

Flyboy
09-26-2008, 05:32 PM
I was being sarcastic. Feels weird to actually hear GOOD news.

leroyisgod
09-26-2008, 07:58 PM
Shockey gets injured like it's his job.

J-Shock
09-26-2008, 10:31 PM
Man a herniated Shockey tore up Denver for the most part. Can't wait until he's 100%

CC.SD
09-26-2008, 11:46 PM
I was being sarcastic. Feels weird to actually hear GOOD news.

ah, Gotcha. Don't worry with Drew around you guys won't miss a beat...on offense.