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View Full Version : Al Harris most likely out for the year


dc22
09-22-2008, 05:11 PM
hopefully he recovers well if it is true
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2008/09/breaking-news-harris-could-be-out-for-year/

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AhTMCP75l_WIrbyriuilOveG2bYF?slug=ap-packers-harris&prov=ap&type=lgns

bored of education
09-22-2008, 05:13 PM
sucks, he is the man

dc22
09-22-2008, 05:14 PM
trade for lito maybe?? doo it TT

GB12
09-22-2008, 07:54 PM
And any possibility we had of contending this year goes out the window

BeerBaron
09-22-2008, 08:01 PM
And any possibility we had of contending this year goes out the window

I think your mistaken. This is Al Harris, not Mike Brown

D-Unit
09-22-2008, 08:22 PM
And any possibility we had of contending this year goes out the window
How can you think the Packers are that reliant on one guy?

GB12
09-22-2008, 08:25 PM
How can you think the Packers are that reliant on one guy?
Because we have absolutely no one to take over as a starter. I like Tramon Williams quite a bit as a nickel, but the thought of him starting scares me.

D-Unit
09-22-2008, 08:32 PM
Because we have absolutely no one to take over as a starter. I like Tramon Williams quite a bit as a nickel, but the thought of him starting scares me.
You have Minnesota, Chicago and Detroit in your conference. Why worry? You guys will be in the playoffs. ...once there, anything can happen and a lot of teams will be banged up as well.

Edit: I take that back... Tavaris Jackson is no longer starting so Minnesota could challenge you for the top spot. But I don't think so.

Staubach12
09-22-2008, 08:35 PM
Wow, that really sucks for them. He's a great player. This makes them a worse team for sure.

Geo
09-22-2008, 08:41 PM
Terrible news for the Packers.

(Kind of wierd that I predicted Harris and Woodson might get injured before last season, turned out I was a year premature.)

Looks like the corner depth they've been developing will come into a bigger spotlight now, to see what they truly have. The Lito mention is interesting, but Ted Thompson isn't going to overspend.

neko4
09-22-2008, 09:05 PM
This sucks big time. Lets go Tramon Williams!

PackerLegend
09-22-2008, 10:35 PM
I rather have Woodson over Harris but it blows. To say it takes us out of playoff contention is a joke. It hurts yes but if we get our offense clicking a little more it will take pressure off our D.

Burns336
09-22-2008, 11:22 PM
Damn the Packers just got better in coverage..

giantsfan
09-23-2008, 12:04 AM
You've still got Woodson though who you can leave on an island a lot without concern and give the kid consistent help over top to let him be more aggressive and develop more comfort at the position.

TitleTown088
09-23-2008, 12:21 AM
And any possibility we had of contending this year goes out the window

A bit drastic. Remember the Giants CB injuries last season? They fared ok. Granted, their pass rush was beast,but still the season isn't over, just time for others to step up.There is no denying losing 31thedirtyone hurts, but If a team is that reliant on one CB to begin with they were never championship caliber. Just pray Wood stays healthy.

TitleTown088
09-23-2008, 12:21 AM
Damn the Packers just got better in coverage..

Uh,.... what?

Burns336
09-23-2008, 02:43 AM
Uh,.... what?

most overrated cb in the league imo.

Had a great year in 06, didn't get the recognition he deserved, so he decides "well im just gonna go for big plays so I can make the pro bowl" -- ends up getting torched all of 07 and historically has been burned by high caliber receivers in the league.

PACKmanN
09-23-2008, 09:32 AM
Jones, Woodson, Collins aggravated their injuries after the Cowboys game.

bigbluedefense
09-23-2008, 09:50 AM
huge blow. especially since they leave their CBs out to dry so much.

theyre gonna have to switch up their game plan.

Geo
09-23-2008, 10:09 AM
Things should continue to roll with Woodson at LCB, and the fill-in for Harris at RCB can have FS Collins (is he healthy?) help him out some if necessary.

It's a tough loss, sure.

bigbluedefense
09-23-2008, 10:10 AM
Im sure GB really wishes they had Antoine Cason right now. He's such a beast, I wanted him so bad :(

Although Phillips is great too :)

giantsfan
09-23-2008, 10:32 AM
huge blow. especially since they leave their CBs out to dry so much.

theyre gonna have to switch up their game plan.

Honestly I think if they just blitzed more and tried to cover Williams with more pressure they'd have more success. Al just gambles too much at this point to be trusted mano a mano.

MetSox17
09-23-2008, 10:51 AM
Hand to hand??

TitleTown088
09-23-2008, 11:02 AM
theyre gonna have to switch up their game plan.

That's for sure, "lock down corners"are staple of the Packers defense, with much of the pressure coming from the front four. Colonel Sanders defense is very fundamental, perhaps we'll be seeing a bit more blitzing. The hard part is with Collins (back) and bigby ( hammy) hurt they are extremely limited.
Al just gambles too much at this point to be trusted mano a mano.

Al has been trusted mano a mano in this defense forever and made the probowl last year. What you talking about?

MetSox17
09-23-2008, 11:25 AM
Al has been..... and made the probowl last year. What you talking about?

LOLOLOLOLOL.

Al Harris got beat like a dirty rug for most of the year last year. Roy Williams also made the Pro-Bowl. He MUST be good! :rolleyes:

Geo
09-23-2008, 11:40 AM
Al Harris had two bad games last year, against Terrell Owens in the regular season and Plaxico Burress in the postseason. Not exactly scrubs in their own right.

MetSox17
09-23-2008, 11:42 AM
Al Harris had two bad games last year, against Terrell Owens in the regular season and Plaxico Burress in the postseason. Not exactly scrubs in their own right.

I'm sorry, i didn't know you had seen every Packers game last year.

ImBrotherCain
09-23-2008, 11:46 AM
I'm sorry, i didn't know you had seen every Packers game last year.

Al Harris did fine last year. He had trouble with the bigger receivers hence why Woodson was covering TO this past week

Hawk
09-23-2008, 12:12 PM
I'm sorry, i didn't know you had seen every Packers game last year.

Please name the other receivers that "torched" him other than TO and Plax.

TitleTown088
09-23-2008, 12:59 PM
Al Harris had two bad games last year, against Terrell Owens in the regular season and Plaxico Burress in the postseason. Not exactly scrubs in their own right.

Exactly, MetSox has no idea what he's talking about. Those two along with Drew Carter were the only real Wideouts who had big games on Harris. Also, don't forget plexiglass was held to 32 yards in their first meeting.

Al Harris got beat like a dirty rug for most of the year last year.
A couple of games is most of the year? Ha.

Burns336
09-23-2008, 04:36 PM
If you guys would like me to provide some metric evidence I can back up Metsox claim that he was horrid last year. In fact, he was one of the worst starting corners in the league. Allowing within a yard of a first down for every ball completed on him.

The metrics tell me he gets burned, my eyes tell me he gets burned, the only thing telling me he doesn't get burned is packer fans and dreadlock lovers going off name recognition.

Watch when GB's pass defense doesn't miss a beat. I'll bet they see no drop off in defense with Harris out. That should show everyone the reality of the situation.

bearsfan_51
09-23-2008, 04:43 PM
I don't think there's any question that Al Harris has been regressing for a few years now, but I'm not sure that makes him entirely expendable either. Sucks to end your career due to injury, but I'd be suprised if he ever comes back from this.

That Justin Harrell picks looks worse and worse all the time. They had their choice of corners at 16.

PACKmanN
09-23-2008, 08:25 PM
I don't think there's any question that Al Harris has been regressing for a few years now, but I'm not sure that makes him entirely expendable either. Sucks to end your career due to injury, but I'd be suprised if he ever comes back from this.

That Justin Harrell picks looks worse and worse all the time. They had their choice of corners at 16.

The only one worth considering was Aaron Ross. IMO, the only CB in that class that has lived up to the first round grade is Revis.

princefielder28
09-23-2008, 08:29 PM
I don't think there's any question that Al Harris has been regressing for a few years now, but I'm not sure that makes him entirely expendable either. Sucks to end your career due to injury, but I'd be suprised if he ever comes back from this.

That Justin Harrell picks looks worse and worse all the time. They had their choice of corners at 16.

The Harrell pick will be forever questioned

bearsfan_51
09-23-2008, 09:08 PM
The only one worth considering was Aaron Ross. IMO, the only CB in that class that has lived up to the first round grade is Revis.
I really don't know what Leon Hall has done, presumably not much since he's in Cincy, but it would have to be an improvement over Harrell.

And yeah...that Ross guy isn't so bad either.

scottyboy
09-23-2008, 09:13 PM
The only one worth considering was Aaron Ross. IMO, the only CB in that class that has lived up to the first round grade is Revis.

Ross has definately lived up to his first round grade. He would've been an excellent pick for you guys.

and perhaps Harris has re-ocurring nightmares of Plaxico Burress, which can't help ;)

but this is a big blow for the Pack, it'll be interesting if they mix up their D more with more blitzes and such. They(from what I've seen, I could be wrong) are pretty vanilla on D. Perhaps this will change things up for them? who know

TitleTown088
09-23-2008, 09:48 PM
Harell is going to get healthy. come back, and beast mode.

yourfavestoner
09-24-2008, 01:57 AM
The Harrell pick will be forever questioned

Ted Thompson is a top three GM, one of my favorites in the league. He's allowed a miss here and there.

TitleTown088
09-24-2008, 02:29 PM
Not so fast...

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-4-170/Packers--Harris-update--Wells-returns.html

There is a "good chance" that Green Bay cornerback Al Harris can avoid surgery on his ruptured spleen, Packers coach Mike McCarthy told reporters Wednesday, and the team hasn't ruled a possible return to the field this season.

Multiple reports have suggested Harris will miss the remainder of the season whether or not he has surgery, but McCarthy wasn't ready to confirm that information Wednesday. Harris is speaking with several specialists to determine his treatment program.

UPDATE: Jack Bechta, Harris' agent, reported on The National Football Post web site that Harris could start "non-impact" workouts in as little as a week if no new information surfaces on the injury -- which Bechta said was a "laceration" rather than a rupture. If so, Harris would start a timetable that would get him back on the field before the end of the season.

According to Bechta, Harris asked one doctor to remove his spleen this week so he could play Sunday. The doctor refused.

Total disregard for his own well being. What a stud.

EvilMonkey
09-24-2008, 04:57 PM
wow, taking out a spleen just so he would be able to play. I dont know what a spleen does and how important it is, but that seems to be on a similar level of dedication as Ronnie Lott cutting off has his pinkey to play.

Twiddler
09-24-2008, 05:02 PM
Well, hopefully things end up better than we initially imagined. I'll cross my fingers.

bearsfan_51
09-25-2008, 12:17 AM
wow, taking out a spleen just so he would be able to play. I dont know what a spleen does and how important it is, but that seems to be on a similar level of dedication as Ronnie Lott cutting off has his pinkey to play.
I'm not a scientist, but I believe the spleen destroys excess red blood cells and serves as a blood storage. Without a spleen your immunity system can get messed up.

So...I guess short term there's really no clear harm in removing it, but I'm not sure that would solve the problem since the biggest problem is that he'll take a hit and his inners will get damaged even worse.

This is what happened to Chris Simms as some may recall. It took him almost two years to get back to full health.

giantsfan
09-25-2008, 01:27 AM
and perhaps Harris has re-ocurring nightmares of Plaxico Burress, which can't help ;)

Should we just refer to plax as the career killer? Sheldon Brown just has never been the same since meeting mister burress on the field either.

BlindSite
09-25-2008, 03:22 AM
I'm not a scientist, but I believe the spleen destroys excess red blood cells and serves as a blood storage. Without a spleen your immunity system can get messed up.

So...I guess short term there's really no clear harm in removing it, but I'm not sure that would solve the problem since the biggest problem is that he'll take a hit and his inners will get damaged even worse.

This is what happened to Chris Simms as some may recall. It took him almost two years to get back to full health.

It removes usless red bloodcells and really helps fight infection, without it you can get infections a lot easier which wouldn't be a good idea for athletes who're already infection risks.

Remeber though, Simms' spleen was ruptured because Rucker smashed him, if Harri's only has a laceration its not nearly as bad, but over exersion can lead to it worsening which wouldn't be cool.

MetSox17
09-25-2008, 10:39 AM
Haven't had much time to log on, but here we go. Aside from the games where he got blasted by T.O and Plax (in the biggest game of his life, btw), i'm gonna take a post from PMD in the other thread, that most Packers fans conveniently missed.



Charles Woodson - Targeted 62 times (16% of pass plays) / 58% success rate (8th in the NFL) / Average Yards Gained 7.7 / 10 passes defended / 4 passes intercepted

Al Harris - Targeted 74 times (17% of pass plays) / 40% success rate (74th in the NFL) / Average Yards Gained 9.4 / 8 passes defended / 2 passes intercepted

That's not a slight difference. That's a huge difference. Harris was, for all intents and purposes, one of the very worst cornerbacks to start all 16 games of the regular season. This has nothing to do with the game he played against Plaxico Burress and everything to do with that fact that he mostly stunk last season.

Please, give it up, Packers fans (and Geo).

Geo
09-25-2008, 10:42 AM
The metrics do look bad for Harris, I don't disagree.

Although both Woodson and Harris were among the most penalized corners last year.

CC.SD
09-25-2008, 11:26 AM
You've got to expect that when you employ a pair of fierce, physical corners though.

Any new word on Harris?

TitleTown088
09-25-2008, 02:34 PM
Haven't had much time to log on, but here we go. Aside from the games where he got blasted by T.O and Plax (in the biggest game of his life, btw), i'm gonna take a post from PMD in the other thread, that most Packers fans conveniently missed.



Please, give it up, Packers fans (and Geo).


Where did those stats come from? Last stats I saw Woodson was rated #1 in the nfl in success rate. By footballoutsiders or CHFF I think.

dc22
09-25-2008, 06:28 PM
Looks like he might actually be able to return this year according to his agent


"Harris Hopes To Return In 2008

From: Jack Bechta, Agent for Al Harris

Although a splenetic injury has to be taken very seriously, Al Harris is determined to play this season and there is new hope of Al returning in several weeks.

However, the training and medical staff of the Packers are approaching this injury with extreme diligence and caution. They are going the extra mile, as they usually do, to make sure that they have all the relevant information needed to help Al make the appropriate decisions and more importantly, to make sure he does not jeopardize his long term health.

As of today, this is what I know:

1. Al has suffered a laceration of the spleen on the collision he had with AJ Hawk.



2. The CT scan did show some damage and bleeding.



3. Al is currently in the process of getting a 3rd and 4th opinion by two prominent surgeons.



4. As of today, the time line is that Al will be re-evaluated and scanned again in a few weeks.

If there are no additional concerns from the new opinions, which I hope to receive in the next 48 hours, then Al can start “non-impact” workouts such as elliptical or pool work in one weeks time. Only until the future CT scans show that there has been significant healing, may Al be released to start light football activities and practice. Therefore, the good news is that Al may return this year and that this is not a life and death situation. No definitive return date has been set, but knowing Al like I do, he will heal fast and do everything in his power to get back on the field. As more information comes in from the additional opinions I will keep you updated here at The National Football Post (nfpost.com).

On a side note, Al has only missed one other football game in his whole HS, College and Pro career. He suffered a high ankle sprain in college and missed just 1 game. In addition, he is so determined to play that he has already asked one Doctor on Monday to “remove his Spleen so he can play against Tampa this weekend”. The Doc obviously made it clear that was not a good idea and the recovery time would be several weeks. The Cowboys game marked the 175th straight NFL appearance for Al Harris, an amazing run for such a physical player. This is a player who has told me he wants a Darrell Green-type career and continues to do all the little things 24/7 to make this goal a reality. Therefore, I would not count Al out for this season.

Once again, I will report any additional findings once Al completes his additional opinion search.



nationalfootballpost.com"

GB12
09-25-2008, 06:42 PM
Alright so for all those hating on Al Harris, give me a list of corners that you can confidently say are better than him. Sure he's not top five or even top ten anymore, but he's still a damn good corner.

MetSox17
09-25-2008, 06:48 PM
Alright so for all those hating on Al Harris, give me a list of corners that you can confidently say are better than him. Sure he's not top five or even top ten anymore, but he's still a damn good corner.

Okay, here we go. In no particular order, they're just all better than Harris.

Terence McGee
Darrelle Revis
Ike Taylor
Dunta Robinson
Reshean Mathis
Cortland Finnegan
Champ Bailey
Nnamdi Asomugha
Deangelo Hall
Antonio Cromartie
Quentin Jammer
Anthony Henry
Terence Newman
Adam Jones
Aaron Ross
Asante Samuel
Sheldon Brown
Nathan Vasher
Charles Tillman
Charles Woodson
Antoine Winfield
Ken Lucas
Ronde Barber
Nate Clements
Marcus Trufant
Kelly Jennings

And there's a few else that could have been a toss-up but i decided to leave them out.

BlindSite
09-25-2008, 07:16 PM
Chris Gamble is a better corner than Lucas so add another to that list.

GB12
09-25-2008, 07:24 PM
No doubt better
Agreed
Close
Worse
Hell no
Okay, here we go. In no particular order, they're just all better than Harris.

Terence McGee
Darrelle Revis
Ike Taylor
Dunta Robinson
Reshean Mathis
Cortland Finnegan
Champ Bailey
Nnamdi Asomugha
Deangelo Hall
Antonio Cromartie
Quentin Jammer
Anthony Henry
Terence Newman
Adam Jones
Aaron Ross
Asante Samuel
Sheldon Brown
Nathan Vasher
Charles Tillman
Charles Woodson
Antoine Winfield
Ken Lucas
Ronde Barber
Nate Clements
Marcus Trufant
Kelly Jennings

And there's a few else that could have been a toss-up but i decided to leave them out.

You listed 26 corners, there are 64 starting corners in the NFL. Even if everyone of the guys you listed were better he's still be a in the top 32 or in other words a number one corner. He has lost quite a big step from his 2006 form, but he's still one of the better corners in the league. He's getting way more hate than he deserves.

Al Harris is an interesting topic on this board. Since I've been here he's gone from extremely underated, to overated, to right where he should be, to overated, to underated, to overated, and where we are now at underated again.

scottyboy
09-25-2008, 07:27 PM
so by metsox's list, Al Harris wouldn't start, or be one of the 1st 3 CB's for Dallas? really. you know that pacman hasn't played a full season in like over a year right? just checking...

MetSox17
09-25-2008, 08:29 PM
so by metsox's list, Al Harris wouldn't start, or be one of the 1st 3 CB's for Dallas? really. you know that pacman hasn't played a full season in like over a year right? just checking...

What? Adam Jones has been out of the league for a year? WOW. That's news to me. Thanks Scotty, for giving me updates on my favorite team. :rolleyes:

Like every list, there are a few that are coin flips and a matter of opinion. With a healthy Anthony Henry, Al Harris wouldn't start on my team if i coached the Cowboys. Between Jones and Harris, you could take your pick. I personally prefer Adam's speed and athleticism over Harris and his pass interference/defensive holding calls every game.

MetSox17
09-25-2008, 08:35 PM
No doubt better
Agreed
Close
Worse
Hell no


You listed 26 corners, there are 64 starting corners in the NFL. Even if everyone of the guys you listed were better he's still be a in the top 32 or in other words a number one corner. He has lost quite a big step from his 2006 form, but he's still one of the better corners in the league. He's getting way more hate than he deserves.

Al Harris is an interesting topic on this board. Since I've been here he's gone from extremely underated, to overated, to right where he should be, to overated, to underated, to overated, and where we are now at underated again.

I get what you're saying there, but that's a completely illogical argument to make. So because Brent Grimes and Chris Houston are number one and two on the Atlanta depth chart (respectively), does that keep them on par with, say, Nnamdi Asomugha and Deangelo Hall? I mean, they're both 1 and 2's also. :rolleyes:

I'm not very impressed with him seeing him play. When you bring out the metrics, it makes the argument for him being underrated even worse. He's a decent corner on a good day, but that's where it ends. He might catch a lot of flack because of his horrible play in big games, and i agree he's not a complete scrub, but he's no where near the level you all make him out to be (not referring to you specifically, but others who have posted on this thread).

Edit -
Chris Gamble is a better corner than Lucas so add another to that list.
He was one of the guys i wasn't too sure of that i just left off. But if you say Gamble is better than Lucas, i'll take your word for it. Don't watch a whole lot of the Panthers games.

Sniper
09-25-2008, 08:40 PM
so by metsox's list, Al Harris wouldn't start, or be one of the 1st 3 CB's for Dallas? really. you know that pacman hasn't played a full season in like over a year right? just checking...

According to MetSox, he's also better than Lito Sheppard.

Sniper
09-25-2008, 08:41 PM
Charles Woodson (Praised be His Name)


It's kind of unfair to compare Al Harris to Jesus. I mean, give Harris a break.

MetSox17
09-25-2008, 08:45 PM
According to MetSox, he's also better than Lito Sheppard.

And according to you, Brian Dawkins = God of free safeties all over the world. It's a matter of opinion, and like i posted previously (JUST in case you actually read my whole argument and not nitpicked what you can attack) some of those are a matter of opinion and system. For being gone a full season, Jones doesn't look TOO rusty (a bit rusty nonetheless).

It's kind of unfair to compare Al Harris to Jesus. I mean, give Harris a break.

And by Jesus you refer to Terence Newman.

Too bad Woody rotted away in Oakland for so long.

GB12
09-25-2008, 08:46 PM
I get what you're saying there, but that's a completely illogical argument to make. So because Brent Grimes and Chris Houston are number one and two on the Atlanta depth chart (respectively), does that keep them on par with, say, Nnamdi Asomugha and Deangelo Hall? I mean, they're both 1 and 2's also. :rolleyes:
You obviously don't get what I'm saying and I don't know how you got that out of it. He's at the very very least a top 32 corner. I'd lable the top 32 as #1 corners. Some teams like Oakland, Green Bay, and Philly have multiple #1s while teams like Atlanta and Detroit have none. That's what I'm saying.

I'm not very impressed with him seeing him play. When you bring out the metrics, it makes the argument for him being underrated even worse. He's a decent corner on a good day, but that's where it ends. He might catch a lot of flack because of his horrible play in big games, and i agree he's not a complete scrub, but he's no where near the level you all make him out to be (not referring to you specifically, but others who have posted on this thread).
That's absolutely ridiculous. On a good day he is as good as anybody in the league save Bailey and Asomugah. On an average day he's still better than about 75% of the starting corners in the league.

Sniper
09-25-2008, 08:48 PM
And according to you, Brian Dawkins = God of free safeties all over the world. It's a matter of opinion, and like i posted previously (JUST in case you actually read my whole argument and not nitpicked what you can attack) some of those are a matter of opinion and system. For being gone a full season, Jones doesn't look TOO rusty (a bit rusty nonetheless).

Not at all. But you'd be amazed at how many people think Brian Dawkins is a pretty decent FS.

And by Jesus you refer to Terence Newman.

Pffffft. Woodson>Newman

Too bad Woody rotted away in Oakland for so long.

A damn shame indeed.

MetSox17
09-25-2008, 08:53 PM
You obviously don't get what I'm saying and I don't know how you got that out of it. He's at the very very least a top 32 corner. I'd lable the top 32 as #1 corners. Some teams like Oakland, Green Bay, and Philly have multiple #1s while teams like Atlanta and Detroit have none. That's what I'm saying.

Okay, i understand. But don't overrate the status of being a #1 corner for a team.


That's absolutely ridiculous. On a good day he is as good as anybody in the league save Bailey and Asomugah. On an average day he's still better than about 75% of the starting corners in the league.

So how many good days did he have to end up 74th in the league in productivity? You conveniently ignored the metrics i quoted PMD posting.

And
On an average day he's still better than about 75% of the starting corners in the league.

I don't think you realize how ridiculous of a statement that was. Let me clear it up for you with some simple math. 75% of 32 is roughly 24. On an average day, he's better than 24 of the guys i pointed out? LOL.

Now you make your list of the 24 guys that Al stinkin' Harris is better than, on an average day.

Sniper
09-25-2008, 08:56 PM
Harris isn't even the best corner on his team for Woodson's sake.

MetSox17
09-25-2008, 08:56 PM
Not at all. But you'd be amazed at how many people think Brian Dawkins is a pretty decent FS.


What a coincidence, you know, there's actually some people out there that felt Jones was an elite corner when in Tennessee? There's metrics to point that out. All opinion, in the end, but you'd equally be amazed at how many objectively opinionated people think Adam Jones is a pretty good CB.

Sniper
09-25-2008, 08:57 PM
What a coincidence, you know, there's actually some people out there that felt Jones was an elite corner when in Tennessee? There's metrics to point that out. All opinion, in the end, but you'd equally be amazed at how many objectively opinionated people think Adam Jones is a pretty good CB.

I never, ever, ever said he wasn't a good corner. I said he was rusty, that you overrated him, and that he wasn't as good as Lito, ESPECIALLY coming off a sabbatical.

MetSox17
09-25-2008, 09:01 PM
I never, ever, ever said he wasn't a good corner. I said he was rusty, that you overrated him, and that he wasn't as good as Lito, ESPECIALLY coming off a sabbatical.

Well my opinions on the Cowboys are never gonna please you, so it makes no sense to argue about them. I can say you overrate your guys too, but what will that be worth? Nothing, really. Anyway, back to the topic at hand :cool:

bearsfan_51
09-25-2008, 09:08 PM
Packers fans have always had a feeling that Al Harris was much better than everyone else thinks he is, it started to catch on for a while until he got beat pretty badly in a few games and the tide turned.

It's kind of a pointless argument now anyway.

GB12
09-25-2008, 09:10 PM
Okay, i understand. But don't overrate the status of being a #1 corner for a team.
Um, ok. You clearly still don't know what I'm saying, but I'll just let it go because I don't feel like explaing again.


So how many good days did he have to end up 74th in the league in productivity? You conveniently ignored the metrics i quoted PMD posting.
I have seen those stats before. I don't think much of them. They're definitely better than any other stat you can find for cornerbacks, but I think using any stats for corners is next to useless. And if you are going to use them I think average yards gained is a better one to use. Not that Al Harris ranks well there either though at 49th. To give you an idea of how useless these are though Champ Bailey was 28th, Asante Samuel was 31st, and Travis Fisher was 10th. The reason I didn't respond about that is because it's not a valid argument to use. You are looking too much into these stats. Why not just pick one stat and use the order as the definite rankings?


I don't think you realize how ridiculous of a statement that was. Let me clear it up for you with some simple math. 75% of 32 is roughly 24. On an average day, he's better than 24 of the guys i pointed out? LOL.

Now you make your list of the 24 guys that Al stinkin' Harris is better than, on an average day.
I said starting corners there are 64 starting corners in the NFL. I have even said that there are 64 CBs in this thread before. Let me clear it up for you. 25% of 64 is 16. I think he is a top 15-20 CB which would make my statement about him being better than about 75% of the starting corners correct. And I already showed you what I thought about your list.

nrk
09-25-2008, 09:12 PM
Haven't had much time to log on, but here we go. Aside from the games where he got blasted by T.O and Plax (in the biggest game of his life, btw), i'm gonna take a post from PMD in the other thread, that most Packers fans conveniently missed.



Please, give it up, Packers fans (and Geo).

Do you know where he got those stats from? I'd like to see that site.

MetSox17
09-25-2008, 09:15 PM
I have seen those stats before. I don't think much of them. They're definitely better than any other stat you can find for cornerbacks, but I think using any stats for corners is next to useless. And if you are going to use them I think average yards gained is a better one to use. Not that Al Harris ranks well there either though at 49th. To give you an idea of how useless these are though Champ Bailey was 28th, Asante Samuel was 31st, and Travis Fisher was 10th. The reason I didn't respond about that is because it's not a valid argument to use. You are looking too much into these stats. Why not just pick one stat and use the order as the definite rankings?

I never based my argument solely on those numbers, but you can't deny that they have legitimate value to them. I stated before that my opinion is based on what i see, and the numbers.


I said starting corners there are 64 starting corners in the NFL. I have even said that there are 64 CBs in this thread before. Let me clear it up for you. 25% of 64 is 16. I think he is a top 15-20 CB which would make my statement about him being better than about 75% of the starting corners correct. And I already showed you what I thought about your list.

You are correct, my apologies. My mistake.

Edit -
Do you know where he got those stats from? I'd like to see that site.
No, i do not. Shoot him a PM if you'd like, and answer the question for all of us.

TitleTown088
09-26-2008, 12:55 AM
Harris isn't even the best corner on his team for Woodson's sake.

And Woodson is arguably a top 1-10 CB, so that means nothing.

Sniper
09-26-2008, 12:59 AM
And Woodson is arguably a top 1-10 CB, so that means nothing.

I know. Just another chance to plug Woodson!

dc22
09-26-2008, 01:15 AM
i know this doesn't mean much but deion after week 2 said that al harris is the best corner in the league :P

TitleTown088
09-26-2008, 09:58 AM
I know. Just another chance to plug Woodson!

Fair enough, Woodson is extremely dank.

Vikes99ej
09-26-2008, 10:23 AM
Chris Gamble is a better corner than Lucas so add another to that list.

Chris Gamble is better than someone?

GB12
09-26-2008, 12:39 PM
Chris Gamble is better than someone?
Ahmad Carroll

MetSox17
09-26-2008, 12:40 PM
Ahmad Carroll

Who's better than Jacques Reeves. Whom the Texans gave a 4 million dollar signing bonus to.

dc22
09-26-2008, 02:14 PM
Who's better than Jacques Reeves. Whom the Texans gave a 4 million dollar signing bonus to.

i don't know if you could be worse than carroll

CC.SD
09-26-2008, 03:01 PM
i don't know if you could be worse than carroll

Wasn't he pretty much the only 1st rounder in 2004 to bust?




Yah, I know he wasn't with guys like Woods and Gallery around, but srsly, he's bringing the average down.

MetSox17
09-26-2008, 04:44 PM
i don't know if you could be worse than carroll

And i seriously think anyone can be worse than Reeves. But then again, this is like arguing which you'd rather have, the clap or chlamydia.

CC.SD
09-26-2008, 04:57 PM
And i seriously think anyone can be worse than Reeves. But then again, this is like arguing which you'd rather have, the clap or chlamydia.

or like if you'd rather be hit in the face with a bowling ball or an ice pick.

TitleTown088
09-26-2008, 05:56 PM
coach Mike McCarthy said cornerback Al Harris could be back in a month.

"I'd say it's safe it's going to be at least three to four weeks," McCarthy said, when asked about the timetable for Harris' return. "The thing that we know for sure is we've had to totally shut him down for seven days, so he'll start probably Monday morning with some form of conditioning, and it will just progress as we move forward. There will be some tests that are done along the way. I don't have an exact timeframe for you."

A bit encouraging.

MetSox17
09-26-2008, 06:12 PM
or like if you'd rather be hit in the face with a bowling ball or an ice pick.

Oh, i'd take the bowling ball over the ice pick. For sure.

LonghornsLegend
09-26-2008, 06:15 PM
So this means Woodson covers the teams #1 WR for the most part? How up to speed is Patrick Lee? I wonder if Green Bay wishes they had gave up a late round pick to move up for Cason or Jenkins, I don't know how Lee is progressing so maybe moving back was the right move, but I felt those two corners were great fits for what they want to run, especially Jenkins, he can run that bump and run to a T.

TitleTown088
09-26-2008, 07:33 PM
How would have a late round draft pick gotten GB to Cason or Jenkins???

GB12
09-26-2008, 10:05 PM
So this means Woodson covers the teams #1 WR for the most part? How up to speed is Patrick Lee? I wonder if Green Bay wishes they had gave up a late round pick to move up for Cason or Jenkins, I don't know how Lee is progressing so maybe moving back was the right move, but I felt those two corners were great fits for what they want to run, especially Jenkins, he can run that bump and run to a T.
Woodson was covering TO in the Dallas game even when Harris was in there. He'll be mostly on the number one, but it won't be just him exclusively. I think he'll continue to cover the slot like he has been doing when that applies.

Patrick Lee is normally our 5th CB, so he'll be pushed up to dimeback with Harris out. He was taken as a guy that we knew would take at least a year to develop. I have high hopes for him, but we won't be seeing much of him this year. Tramon Williams will start opposite of Woodson with Will Blackmon as the nickle.

yourfavestoner
09-27-2008, 02:00 AM
How's Will Blackmon been? He's been a guy I was very intrigued with back when he was drafted. He was on his way to being a very good corner before being moved to WR. You know the kid has to be the ultimate team player for a move like that. He basically sacrificed millions of dollars just to make his college team more successful.

GB12
09-27-2008, 10:51 AM
How's Will Blackmon been? He's been a guy I was very intrigued with back when he was drafted. He was on his way to being a very good corner before being moved to WR. You know the kid has to be the ultimate team player for a move like that. He basically sacrificed millions of dollars just to make his college team more successful.
He's been injured so much that it's hard to tell right now. He was hurt throughout his rookie year and was eventually placed on IR. Then last year he won the return job, but he broke his thumb right before the season started. He also broke his foot last year which kept him out for 7 weeks. He's finally healthy this year and with Harris out we'll get to see what he's got I guess. I like his skillset and think that with being back at corner for three years since being a WR that if he stays healthy he has a chance to be one of the eventual replacements for Harris and Woodson. I think that he'll be a very good returner for us even if he doesn't do anything on defense. He's only averaging 21 yards per kick return right now, but he's often close to breaking it.

Sportsfan486
09-27-2008, 12:57 PM
I feel bad for Harris but I'm pretty excited to see what Williams and Blackmon can do.. even Lee should get some game reps. I think all three have the potential to be starting CBs... yeah, we'll have to change the system somewhat but that's to be expected when you lose a top-knotch player at any position.